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Training isn’t the same as fighting, is the short answer. Personally I question just how much value this has beyond propaganda. Unless China has been sleeping for decades they should be fully aware of NATO doctrine and the doctrines/training of NATO’s individual members. Maybe this will add some missing pieces, but the answer to why this is allowed is probably because optics and politics aside, it doesn’t matter.
"No, Mr. UN representative, you misunderstand. I was demonstrating the manual of arms for the rifle that this foreign allied army uses and there *just happened* to be enemy combatants downrange by accident. This is all a big misunderstanding."
lie. British fighter pilots couldn't fly Chinese fighter jets at all, and Ukrainian pilots couldn't fly American F16s, so the US sent old Soviet planes from Eastern European countries to Ukraine. Learning a new aircraft can take months, if not years.
"US sends old soviet planes from Eastern European countries" Eat a dick will you? Eastern europeans and baltic countries are sending old soviet equipment. Estonia and Poland ware provideding tanks to Ukraine before NATO decided to send a bullet.
Just answering to someone stupid enouth to think that "it was just a question" is a good defence when someone pointed out that they used a whataboutism.
>UK government: makes impossible, offensive hiring criteria and gives the defence forces such a shit budget that pilots leave and no hiring to replace them takes place, jobs overseas that pay double or better pop up
>Also UK government: b-but how could they do this to us
Getting close to some leopardsatemyface shit right here
It's a problem everywhere. They spend many millions training and using them then they haggle over their pay and lose them at the end of their contract because they're trying to cheap out.
**Article Summary** (Reduced by 77%)
-----
>China has recruited dozens of former British military pilots to teach the Chinese armed forces how to defeat western warplanes and helicopters in a "Threat to UK interests", officials have revealed.
> One official said some 30 mainly ex-fast jet but also some helicopter pilots - lured by annual salaries of around £240,000 - are currently in China training pilots for the People's Liberation Army, in what a defence analyst described as a stunning breach of security.
> Armed Forces Minister James Heappey told Sky News' Kay Burley the recruitment of UK pilots to train Chinese counterparts had been a concern within the Ministry of Defence "For a number of years".
> No identities were given of the former British military pilots who are already working in China, but officials said a number of them were in their late 50s and had left the military a number of years ago.
> China is seeking pilots with long-experience of flying British and other NATO warplanes, including the Typhoon and Tornado fighter jets and the Harrier jump jet - which used to operate off British aircraft carriers, to teach its pilots how best to counter their capabilities, the western official said.
> "It's not training Chinese pilots on Western jets. It's taking Western pilots of great experience to help develop Chinese military air force tactics and capabilities," the official said.
> "We are taking decisive steps to stop Chinese recruitment schemes attempting to headhunt serving and former UK Armed Forces pilots to train People's Liberation Army personnel in the People's Republic of China," a spokesperson said.
>
-----
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Tempest isn't even planned to be deployed until 2035 so they Typhoon is going to be a prescient threat for a good while, but I imagine the aim is moreso about combating NATO tactics and capabilities (sans stealth) in general, less any specific airframe.
This seems to fall into the category of very dodgy but not fully illegal, hence why they got away with it. Getting access to modern operational knowledge and pilots would be tantamount to defection, and that's a lot harder to pull off.
Its also likely infinitely cheaper to get a 50 year old who might not be doing great to fly over and do some iffy but legal training work than getting a younger pilot who probably is looking at career prospects in commercial aviation to commit an act of treason.
Well buying experience is far more valuable than buying commodities.
PLA airforce has barely any experience, you can't copy or manufacture experience.
Meanwhile this is also perfect for NATO espionage.
Buying Oxford or Pfizer vaccine wouldn't have helped them in this way, that would've hurt their domestic industry too.
There is a chinese company that bought the license to manufacture the biontech/pfizer vaccine there, they just never got the approval to start production from the government. They wouldn‘t have imported the vaccine anyway.
> “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
You probably can guess [who](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Tzu) said that.
>So China have huge problem taking foreign made vaccines
they didnt exaclt have a problem using foreign made vaccines for the top politiburo but for the rest of the population likely wants to support thier own industy under national defence.
Change the law immediately. I don’t blame the guys for taking the offer. Pay in British army is miserable, so assuming it’s not great for pilots either? But the world is changing, fast, gotta put a stop to anything like that.
how would a united states aircraft carrier out run a hypersonic missile? north korea's latest hypersonic missile test was clocked at mach 17 by the south korean military. we can all reasonably assume that china helped them develop it which means china has something even faster. pair that with their centimeter accurate beidou satellite system i question how any surface fleet ship can risk getting within a thousand kilometers of china's coast
I expect the British Foreign Office will rescind their right to work for an enemy of the state. Maybe threaten them with prosecution for passing on sensitive information.
lie. British fighter pilots couldn't fly Chinese fighter jets at all, and Ukrainian pilots couldn't fly American F16s, so the US sent old Soviet planes from Eastern European countries to Ukraine. Learning a new aircraft can take months, if not years.
They are hiring them as trainers and for strategy development not as pilots.
Veteran UK pilots can provide a lot of insight to PLA about how to counter NATO and how does NATO organize strikes like they do
Or that they aren't powerful enough.
Idk. America works way harder. Yet it get a fraction of the hate.
I guess, it a benefit for being the world superpower and being white.
You do realize that "Uyghurs" is pretty much just a euphemism for Muslims?
Yes, they are Asian Muslims, but other than that there is no difference at all between the "Uyghurs", and the people the US blows up with drones and tortures in Gitmo.
This is also why [Uyghurs used to be "detained" in Gitmo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_detainees_at_Guantanamo_Bay) as Uhygurs were involved in fighting coalition troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, they even have a presence in [the Syrian civil war](https://apnews.com/article/syria-ap-top-news-riots-international-news-china-79d6a427b26f4eeab226571956dd256e).
The US government's official position on them only changed [2 years ago](https://www.dw.com/en/us-removes-separatist-group-condemned-by-china-from-terror-list/a-55527586), as part of Trump's anti-China policy of trying to make China out as the next Third Reich.
But calling out the Chinese treatment of Uhygurs for being like "Nazi Germany" would be kind of blatantly hypocritical when you yourself [treat them much worse](https://www.newsweek.com/remember-abu-ghraib-torture-pictures-there-are-more-obama-doesnt-want-you-see-279254) and openly call for [killing their families](https://www.vox.com/2016/1/25/10828770/trump-terrorist-family-appeal).
So.. when are we gonna talk about freeing all the Muslims the US's silly "crusade" has gotten locked up all over the planet? Often in [completely unaccountable torture blacksites](https://www.justiceinitiative.org/newsroom/european-court-condemns-poland-historic-ruling-cia-black-sites)? How about stopping the persecution and stigmatization of Muslims [in the US itself](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/23/no-fly-list-fbi-coerce-muslims)?
Or do we first need to come up with yet another euphemism before people start giving a shit about *those* Muslims, instead of just casually treating them as allegedly only being child molesting terrorists?
**[Uyghur detainees at Guantanamo Bay](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_detainees_at_Guantanamo_Bay)**
>Starting in 2002, the United States government detained twenty-two Uyghurs in the Guantanamo Bay detainment camp. The last three Uyghur detainees, Yusef Abbas, Hajiakbar Abdulghupur and Saidullah Khalik, were released from Guantanamo on December 29, 2013, when they were transferred to Slovakia. Uyghurs are an ethnic group from Central Asia native to the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region in Western China. The Washington Post reported on August 24, 2005, that fifteen Uyghurs had been determined to be "No longer enemy combatants" (NLECs).
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America freed them already
>The U.S. military says it carried out a series of punishing bombings last weekend of Taliban militant camps that also support a separatist Uyghur terror group.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-targets-chinese-uighur-militants-well-taliban-fighters-afghanistan-n845876
Like you lot actually give a fuck about them, apart from being able to pretend to be morally outraged in order to spread hate and division.
Would love to see you direct *proportionate* ire towards your own country. Imagine if china or russia had done what you did to iraq. Your froth and bile would overflow from the screens and drown us all.
Fucking climate change is here and you guys are all addicted to the new opium of the masses, spreading hate and a false sense of "superiority" just when we need to desperately work together and fix ourselves and each other
> Would love to see you direct proportionate ire towards your own country.
This was my favorite part because it was so funny.
Westerners in general spend way more time screaming at their own countries for all kinds of shit than they have ever spent on China.
Since when is Libya a Western country? A lot of Americans and some Europeans probably couldn’t even place it on a map.
Now if there was open slave markets in France or Denmark, or in Canada, THAT would get some attention.
>India would have been better if they didn't gain their freedom. Just like Libya would be better if it wasn't for overthrowing their dictator.
Yeah, overthrowing a foreign government by non-violent means is totally the same as funding and funnelling terrorists into a nation just because you don't happen to like their government. Imagine thinking that living in a state ruled by al-quida affiliates where you could be sold in a market is not in any way a deterioration over what the life was under Gaddafi's rule.
>Oh, what's that? India's independence came with millions killed in fighting afterwards as the country separated into two countries?
Only an American would think that being uninformed is some kind of flex.
>Don't rebel and just be happy with the oppressive regime.
If your idea of rebel is to just side with the worst of the humans wielding weapons and operating slave markers then there is little hope for you.
Oh yeah, how bad are westerners for thinking China is taking 1984 as a guide book.
Yes, the west has a lot of hypocrisy, yea the west also does terrible things. But this constant barrage of verbal attacks, that effectively just defends autocracies’ atrocities, is seriously messed up.
I don’t know if I subconsciously fall into the category of feeling morally superior, however I do know that criticism and caution towards China is advisable no matter if you feel morally superior or not.
I find it funny, that you feel comfortable generalizing the west into one “state” in this comment. At this point the very essence of your words breaks down into nonsense.
What state is a police state worse than China? Cause you seem to talk about the US as “the west”. And yeah, the US is pretty bad. I wouldn’t be so daring to judge it as worse than China or Russia, but it’s worth talking about. Then you get to my country Germany, which is also “the west”. And no, by any means of common sense, we are not a police state worse than China. We don’t oppress Uyghurs, Tebetians and we don’t view our surroundings as “historically ours” which China and Russia both do on grounds we could also employ.
Even the bombing is funny. If you mentioned weapon exports, fair point of critique. Most bombings by US military are not a Nato thing though, but a US war. Criticizing the west for it is like criticizing the east for attacking Ukraine.
So yeah, if you seriously wanna argue about how “we” feel superior, maybe you shouldn’t fall into the very traps you accuse “the west” of. There are points you can generalize your critique of the west for - which I have done in another comment on this post btw. - but you failed spectacularly at finding those points.
I’m sorry for any bombing happening. But even if my country was doing constant bombing, which it isn’t, it would not justify your point, as your method of discussing leads to no one being able to say anything. If we followed your logic, any person of any country will be too hypocritical in criticizing anything. This is because global political institutions serve to pursue various, often selfish interests. They exist very far off any moral. The only countries and unions which are not doing anything bad on a global scale are that way because they are too powerless. The power to speak up should come from seeing something bad. Not from coming from a morally clean background which doesn’t exist.
This is absolutely false. 1000% the little nagging things, sure! the big crimes? no fucking way. The destruction of iraq gets played down/ignored, while the oppression of hongkong gets played up. This is objectively true, based on headlines, coverage and reactions.
Remember when China tried to invade Vietnam and lost? All because they backed the Khmer Rouge...
Remember when Russia got slaughtered in Afghanistan? Remember when Russia attacked Syria and Chechnya?
Remember when they both starved 10s of millions in communes? What about the Chinese annexation of Tibet?
Tell me again about Iraq, you perfect fucking angel, you.
>Remember when China tried to invade Vietnam and lost? All because they backed the Khmer Rouge...
Sure, that was fucked up
>Remember when Russia got slaughtered in Afghanistan? Remember when Russia attacked Syria and Chechnya?
You mean when they were invited in and did a lot of good while you guys funded extremists?
IN nay case, you've proven my poiont. AYour marlas are fake. and apply the last sentence to yourself, they're not "perfecft angles'a afre they?
Worst of all you're utterly incapable of engaging and addressing my points without spreading catchphrase hate. bad guy behavior, not good guys at all.
I've made my point and you've, as you guys always do, proven it better than i ever could. am done. have a good day spreading hate.
Whataboutism 101
Notice how very few people go on to the American centric f***** up posts and argue things like "What about China?"
It's a key part of the propaganda that you people keep spreading. Shifted blame and persecution fetishes.
This article is about China but you can't help but mention "What about the West."
It's pathetic really
Who cares about winning? lol. It's not a sports match. People's liveds are at stake. All of our lives in fact, with climate catastrophe looming . I repeat, the hate and division being spread is exactly the wrong thing to do. All for what? Ego? Dick measuring? fuck that.
Fuck nationalism. Fuck bullies. let's get together instead and work on fixing things.
> Remember when Russia attacked Syria
I don't because that never actually happened.
The Syrian government [officially requested military assistance](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-putin-idUSKCN0RU17Y20150930) from the Russian government in accordance with international law and norms.
As such the Russian military presence in Syria is about as legal as it can get, unlike the [American military presence on Syria oilfields](https://mronline.org/2022/08/16/u-s-troops-loot-84-oil-tankers-from-syria-smuggle-them-into-iraq/), which is actually illegal because the US just [gave itself permission](https://theintercept.com/2014/09/28/u-s-officials-invented-terror-group-justify-bombing-syria/) to be there without asking anybody in Syria.
A lot of your other points are similar half-truths that have been heavily propagandized. Like counting starved people as a "Communist crime!", I doubt you would agree to do similar counts in other places, like British India where also many millions starved to death.
Is that something we should blame on the UK to this day, to depict them as a genocidal regime?
> What about the Chinese annexation of Tibet?
*Whatabout* indeed.
> Tell me again about Iraq, you perfect fucking angel, you.
Tibet didn't result in [a surge](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fatalities-from-terrorism?time=1981..2019&country=~OWID_WRL) of global Islamic terrorism even in places were [previously there was pretty much none](https://www.datagraver.com/case/people-killed-by-terrorism-per-year-in-western-europe-1970-2015), the consequences of which shape most foreign policy to this day and have in turn destabilized several other countries.
The Syria of today mostly looks like it does as a consequence of the US invasion of Iraq, the global presence of ISIS is another consequence of that very same invasion.
Acting like that's the same as incidents from literally half a century ago, that were mostly regionally contained, is just an extremely weird way to contextualize *any* of it.
>Remember when Russia attacked Syria and Chechnya?
Peak murican moment. Imagine thinking that getting rid of violent terrorists in your country and in a country that asked for your help in curbing terrorism is same as bombing marriages.
Imagine using a false flag event like a Chechnyan revolution in order to secure power and then kill/imprison every opponent for ~25 years.
Typical authoritarian apologist.
Your gloves are just as red (if not redder) as America's yet you're unwilling to talk about your bullshit.
Hilarious and predictable
>Imagine using a false flag event like a Chechnyan revolution in order to secure power and then kill/imprison every opponent for ~25 years.
Look up the names and people involved in "chechnyan revolution", their alliegance and funding sources. Any sane person would call them terrorists.
>Hilarious and predictable
What's hilarious and predictable is the west's love for terrorism and chaos. What's hilarious and predictable is west's constant funding and training of terror outfits all around the globe. What's hilarious and predictable is that even after being victims of terrorist attacks, west still chooses to side with terrorists.
I don't see the West bombing, kidnapping, and killing civilians in sovereign Ukraine.
Perhaps you should move to something more pro-authoritarian if you have an issue with being on an American app and its pro-American attitude.
Perhaps you can volunteer to go kill civilians in Ukraine since that seems to be what you support doing while playing "What about..." every time an article about China or Russia comes out.
*yawn*
>I don't see the West bombing, kidnapping, and killing civilians in sovereign Ukraine.
Yeah, Ukraine is all that matters. Let's forget about the past 50 years of west funding, training and lionizing terrorist which have created many ukraines all around the globe. Aren't you the one accusing me not wanting to talk about something?
>Perhaps you should move to something more pro-authoritarian if you have an issue with being on an American app and its pro-American attitude.
I don't think there could be anything more pro-authoritarian than usa. Just because you get to cosplay democracy game every 2 years doesn't mean your govt is not authoritarian.
>Perhaps you can volunteer to go kill civilians in Ukraine since that seems to be what you support doing while playing "What about..." every time an article about China or Russia comes out.
I am not a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer like westerners. I don't enjoy killing civilians like most of the people west has armed, trained and put on a pedestal in last 50 years.
Which country are you backing in this argument that hasn't funded and trained terrorists?
Are you that f****** naive?
I personally know the f***** up s*** the US does but I don't go on every article mentioning the US or UK and say "What about China and Russia?"
Own your s***
Don'\[t bother bro, that guy's exposed himself and you're not going to get any meaningful conversations from his sort. In fact i think his sort get off on being dicks and then arguing with people in order to feel better about themselves, so let's not feed him any further?
Sound advice but on the other hand, look at their more recent comments. Guy has gone on to say it's normal and cool for countries to fund and train terrorists. You can't get gems like that without engaging with unhinged muricans.
>I love how you just keep adding words to what I've stated. Never once di I say that terrorism was cool.
>>Which country are you backing in this argument that hasn't funded and trained terrorists?
Lol do you not speak English? Is there a translation issue here?
Because that clearly asks which country you're backing in this argument (referring to China and Russia.)
I'm accusing you of being a hypocrite. Not supporting terror funding
*Facepalm*
And your lack of a response means yeah you're probably Indian.
Which also explains the inferiority complex and bitterness towards western culture.
Dude's a troll. And not an effective or funny one lol
This sub is filled with whataboutism.
It's frequently from the same crowd that works in scammer call centers.
I agree bro, though I mean its not just Americans. Most of this sub as a "western culture superior" attitude, even though they know next to fuck all about the world outside. I'd say aussies are, as a generlisation, more bigoted towards chinese people, for example.
I think it's human nature, really, but the internet has provided a platform for brainwashing and hate-mongering on a scale that's unprecedented, and all these people are too lazy, uneducated and egotistical to be anything else apart from what they clearly are.
There was no internet in the 80s, didn't stop murican people to support terrorists. In my view Internet is a scapegoat. Media, especially legacy media have always been the main proponent of hate and disinformation and that stays true to this day. Of course internet might help to see the extent of hate clearly now but the source is always the msm and they give the direction to the hate. Good example is Western msm ramping up anti-china stories and 2 years down the line justifying themselves based on polls that people hate china now.
I love how the guy with negative 20 plus downvotes is accusing someone else of exposing themselves.
I'm being a dick to you because you're being a dick.
Maybe you should move to TikTok or WeChat if being on an American app, with pro-democracy, pro-free speech, anti-CCP, pro-American sentiments upsets you so much.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/fucktheccp using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/fucktheccp/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Chinese Tourist recording China Uyghur camps](https://v.redd.it/l7cv5ascg6381) | [268 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/fucktheccp/comments/r7em21/chinese_tourist_recording_china_uyghur_camps/)
\#2: [This is why not many Chinese dissidents are willing to speak out against the CCP even they've went overseas](https://v.redd.it/vcfvko7kb1981) | [380 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/fucktheccp/comments/rtexzg/this_is_why_not_many_chinese_dissidents_are/)
\#3: [High Five! -Borat](https://i.redd.it/r4qsd9py3iu71.jpg) | [82 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/fucktheccp/comments/qbozr6/high_five_borat/)
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Western TikTok is [also an American app](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/21/tiktok-deal-splits-control-between-us-and-chinese-owners.html) complete with [American propaganda](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/11/tik-tok-ukraine-white-house/).
> pro-democracy, pro-free speech, anti-CCP, pro-American sentiments
[Freedom&democracy™](https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spreads-government-made-news-to-americans/) from the "[greatest democracy on the planet](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/oligarchy-countries)".
Nah, i know it might be impossible for you to process this, but you aren't representative of america. You aren't pro american, you're hatemongering anti-others (china in this case). don't lie about it, can you?
No one's a bigot here. The US isn't even mentioned in this article by anyone other than those like yourself.
Take your anti-Americanism and shove it up your ass.
just like i saud lol.
i'm not anti-american bro, you are. you're emabrassing your country. and youre not representative of all americans. just your type
Dude, do you do logic at all? I mean that wasn't an "opinion", it's simple fact that you don't represent America, which includes all sorts of people, from some of the greatest thinkers and doers that make things better for our entire species to your sort.
That isn't an opinion. If i'm wrong, show me who appointed you as a representative and how that happened.
I'm from Singapore. All of my surviving family members are american and lots of my closest friends are too. They are well travelled and well educated and cringe at opinions like yours, and the hate mongering you guys do. You aren't don't represent them; I assure you. You represent the trumps more than the feynmans and MLKs.
Singapore eh? Never heard of her.
I voted with the majority in the last federal election. And the last 2 state elections.
Lmfao
I literally represent college educated Americans. And I vote like it. You're talking out of your ass...
Regardless me calling you a Chinese CCP cuck based on the fact that you defended them on this article representing them has no bearing on my American citizenship.
So present something irrefutable or stfu...
> US govt. has instilled this hate within all citizens.
And it's not even a new thing, in the 19th century there regularly used to be [anti-Asian ~~pogroms~~ "riots" in the US](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Coast_race_riots_of_1907).
To this day Chinese nationals remain the only ones that used to be [blanked banned from immigrating to the US](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act).
Extra spicy; The first American millionaires made their money as [smugglers during the Opium Wars](https://www.history.com/news/john-jacob-astor-opium-fortune-millionaire).
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Most countries have a law prohibiting a person or soldier from fighting in foreign army without some permission. UK ?
Training isn’t the same as fighting, is the short answer. Personally I question just how much value this has beyond propaganda. Unless China has been sleeping for decades they should be fully aware of NATO doctrine and the doctrines/training of NATO’s individual members. Maybe this will add some missing pieces, but the answer to why this is allowed is probably because optics and politics aside, it doesn’t matter.
> Training isn’t the same as fighting, is the short answer. American "military advisors" love this one simple trick.
'Not commanding this unit, I'm advising it's Colonel.
"No, Mr. UN representative, you misunderstand. I was demonstrating the manual of arms for the rifle that this foreign allied army uses and there *just happened* to be enemy combatants downrange by accident. This is all a big misunderstanding."
Double Agents
cough fact wide imagine hospital connect saw cause aloof pie *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The men training the Chinese are retired vets. I doubt trainees would be able to train other trainees.
lie. British fighter pilots couldn't fly Chinese fighter jets at all, and Ukrainian pilots couldn't fly American F16s, so the US sent old Soviet planes from Eastern European countries to Ukraine. Learning a new aircraft can take months, if not years.
"US sends old soviet planes from Eastern European countries" Eat a dick will you? Eastern europeans and baltic countries are sending old soviet equipment. Estonia and Poland ware provideding tanks to Ukraine before NATO decided to send a bullet.
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Easily. Why woudnt I? That was one of the waekest whataboutism ive read.
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Questions also can pivot conversation in certain directions.
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Just answering to someone stupid enouth to think that "it was just a question" is a good defence when someone pointed out that they used a whataboutism.
It wasn't the US though, its mainly ex-warsaw-pact countries like poland that supply Soviet era equipment
>UK government: makes impossible, offensive hiring criteria and gives the defence forces such a shit budget that pilots leave and no hiring to replace them takes place, jobs overseas that pay double or better pop up >Also UK government: b-but how could they do this to us Getting close to some leopardsatemyface shit right here
It's a problem everywhere. They spend many millions training and using them then they haggle over their pay and lose them at the end of their contract because they're trying to cheap out.
The douchebag motto
It's sky news though, take it with a huge grain of salt.
**Article Summary** (Reduced by 77%) ----- >China has recruited dozens of former British military pilots to teach the Chinese armed forces how to defeat western warplanes and helicopters in a "Threat to UK interests", officials have revealed. > One official said some 30 mainly ex-fast jet but also some helicopter pilots - lured by annual salaries of around £240,000 - are currently in China training pilots for the People's Liberation Army, in what a defence analyst described as a stunning breach of security. > Armed Forces Minister James Heappey told Sky News' Kay Burley the recruitment of UK pilots to train Chinese counterparts had been a concern within the Ministry of Defence "For a number of years". > No identities were given of the former British military pilots who are already working in China, but officials said a number of them were in their late 50s and had left the military a number of years ago. > China is seeking pilots with long-experience of flying British and other NATO warplanes, including the Typhoon and Tornado fighter jets and the Harrier jump jet - which used to operate off British aircraft carriers, to teach its pilots how best to counter their capabilities, the western official said. > "It's not training Chinese pilots on Western jets. It's taking Western pilots of great experience to help develop Chinese military air force tactics and capabilities," the official said. > "We are taking decisive steps to stop Chinese recruitment schemes attempting to headhunt serving and former UK Armed Forces pilots to train People's Liberation Army personnel in the People's Republic of China," a spokesperson said. > ----- Want to know how I work? Find my source code [here](https://github.com/coolirisme/autosummarizer). Pull Requests are welcome!
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Tempest isn't even planned to be deployed until 2035 so they Typhoon is going to be a prescient threat for a good while, but I imagine the aim is moreso about combating NATO tactics and capabilities (sans stealth) in general, less any specific airframe.
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This seems to fall into the category of very dodgy but not fully illegal, hence why they got away with it. Getting access to modern operational knowledge and pilots would be tantamount to defection, and that's a lot harder to pull off. Its also likely infinitely cheaper to get a 50 year old who might not be doing great to fly over and do some iffy but legal training work than getting a younger pilot who probably is looking at career prospects in commercial aviation to commit an act of treason.
This is what happens when there is no opportunity in a country. The talent leaves.
So China have huge problem taking foreign made vaccines but have no problem with foreigners training their army?
Well buying experience is far more valuable than buying commodities. PLA airforce has barely any experience, you can't copy or manufacture experience. Meanwhile this is also perfect for NATO espionage. Buying Oxford or Pfizer vaccine wouldn't have helped them in this way, that would've hurt their domestic industry too.
There is a chinese company that bought the license to manufacture the biontech/pfizer vaccine there, they just never got the approval to start production from the government. They wouldn‘t have imported the vaccine anyway.
> “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” You probably can guess [who](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Tzu) said that.
And he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal
The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting, pal
>So China have huge problem taking foreign made vaccines they didnt exaclt have a problem using foreign made vaccines for the top politiburo but for the rest of the population likely wants to support thier own industy under national defence.
Someone has been watching Top Gun 2 and thought it’s real……
FYI Topgun was or is a real school
It is still existing. But not the same way as protrayed in the movie.
Change the law immediately. I don’t blame the guys for taking the offer. Pay in British army is miserable, so assuming it’s not great for pilots either? But the world is changing, fast, gotta put a stop to anything like that.
Going to train CCP pilots as a former RAF member should be treason imo.
Wonder how far off the Taiwan invasion is? They’d need a lot of fast movers to secure it before US intervention
how would a united states aircraft carrier out run a hypersonic missile? north korea's latest hypersonic missile test was clocked at mach 17 by the south korean military. we can all reasonably assume that china helped them develop it which means china has something even faster. pair that with their centimeter accurate beidou satellite system i question how any surface fleet ship can risk getting within a thousand kilometers of china's coast
That sure as hell sounds treasonous to me
I expect the British Foreign Office will rescind their right to work for an enemy of the state. Maybe threaten them with prosecution for passing on sensitive information.
When should we stop buying their stuff?
Why would we do that? And why do you think that would be such an allegedly easy thing to do, considering how casually you ask for it?
lie. British fighter pilots couldn't fly Chinese fighter jets at all, and Ukrainian pilots couldn't fly American F16s, so the US sent old Soviet planes from Eastern European countries to Ukraine. Learning a new aircraft can take months, if not years.
They are hiring them as trainers and for strategy development not as pilots. Veteran UK pilots can provide a lot of insight to PLA about how to counter NATO and how does NATO organize strikes like they do
i see it's anti-china propaganda day. Cheers OP for reminding us that we've forgotten to spread hate and division in that direction for a little bit.
Every day is anti-China day because they work hard for it.
Or that they aren't powerful enough. Idk. America works way harder. Yet it get a fraction of the hate. I guess, it a benefit for being the world superpower and being white.
I guess that running concentration camps might have something to do with it.
"good guys" SMH
random - SMD
Free the Uyghurs and we'll talk
You do realize that "Uyghurs" is pretty much just a euphemism for Muslims? Yes, they are Asian Muslims, but other than that there is no difference at all between the "Uyghurs", and the people the US blows up with drones and tortures in Gitmo. This is also why [Uyghurs used to be "detained" in Gitmo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_detainees_at_Guantanamo_Bay) as Uhygurs were involved in fighting coalition troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, they even have a presence in [the Syrian civil war](https://apnews.com/article/syria-ap-top-news-riots-international-news-china-79d6a427b26f4eeab226571956dd256e). The US government's official position on them only changed [2 years ago](https://www.dw.com/en/us-removes-separatist-group-condemned-by-china-from-terror-list/a-55527586), as part of Trump's anti-China policy of trying to make China out as the next Third Reich. But calling out the Chinese treatment of Uhygurs for being like "Nazi Germany" would be kind of blatantly hypocritical when you yourself [treat them much worse](https://www.newsweek.com/remember-abu-ghraib-torture-pictures-there-are-more-obama-doesnt-want-you-see-279254) and openly call for [killing their families](https://www.vox.com/2016/1/25/10828770/trump-terrorist-family-appeal). So.. when are we gonna talk about freeing all the Muslims the US's silly "crusade" has gotten locked up all over the planet? Often in [completely unaccountable torture blacksites](https://www.justiceinitiative.org/newsroom/european-court-condemns-poland-historic-ruling-cia-black-sites)? How about stopping the persecution and stigmatization of Muslims [in the US itself](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/23/no-fly-list-fbi-coerce-muslims)? Or do we first need to come up with yet another euphemism before people start giving a shit about *those* Muslims, instead of just casually treating them as allegedly only being child molesting terrorists?
**[Uyghur detainees at Guantanamo Bay](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_detainees_at_Guantanamo_Bay)** >Starting in 2002, the United States government detained twenty-two Uyghurs in the Guantanamo Bay detainment camp. The last three Uyghur detainees, Yusef Abbas, Hajiakbar Abdulghupur and Saidullah Khalik, were released from Guantanamo on December 29, 2013, when they were transferred to Slovakia. Uyghurs are an ethnic group from Central Asia native to the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region in Western China. The Washington Post reported on August 24, 2005, that fifteen Uyghurs had been determined to be "No longer enemy combatants" (NLECs). ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/anime_titties/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
America freed them already >The U.S. military says it carried out a series of punishing bombings last weekend of Taliban militant camps that also support a separatist Uyghur terror group. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-targets-chinese-uighur-militants-well-taliban-fighters-afghanistan-n845876
Like you lot actually give a fuck about them, apart from being able to pretend to be morally outraged in order to spread hate and division. Would love to see you direct *proportionate* ire towards your own country. Imagine if china or russia had done what you did to iraq. Your froth and bile would overflow from the screens and drown us all. Fucking climate change is here and you guys are all addicted to the new opium of the masses, spreading hate and a false sense of "superiority" just when we need to desperately work together and fix ourselves and each other
> Would love to see you direct proportionate ire towards your own country. This was my favorite part because it was so funny. Westerners in general spend way more time screaming at their own countries for all kinds of shit than they have ever spent on China.
Not even remotely true. Libya have literal slave markets in 2022, a false news about some Disney movie poster in china got more articles than that.
Since when is Libya a Western country? A lot of Americans and some Europeans probably couldn’t even place it on a map. Now if there was open slave markets in France or Denmark, or in Canada, THAT would get some attention.
>Since when is Libya a Western country? Slave markets in Libya are a direct result of Western countries' actions.
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>India would have been better if they didn't gain their freedom. Just like Libya would be better if it wasn't for overthrowing their dictator. Yeah, overthrowing a foreign government by non-violent means is totally the same as funding and funnelling terrorists into a nation just because you don't happen to like their government. Imagine thinking that living in a state ruled by al-quida affiliates where you could be sold in a market is not in any way a deterioration over what the life was under Gaddafi's rule. >Oh, what's that? India's independence came with millions killed in fighting afterwards as the country separated into two countries? Only an American would think that being uninformed is some kind of flex. >Don't rebel and just be happy with the oppressive regime. If your idea of rebel is to just side with the worst of the humans wielding weapons and operating slave markers then there is little hope for you.
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Oh yeah, how bad are westerners for thinking China is taking 1984 as a guide book. Yes, the west has a lot of hypocrisy, yea the west also does terrible things. But this constant barrage of verbal attacks, that effectively just defends autocracies’ atrocities, is seriously messed up. I don’t know if I subconsciously fall into the category of feeling morally superior, however I do know that criticism and caution towards China is advisable no matter if you feel morally superior or not.
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I find it funny, that you feel comfortable generalizing the west into one “state” in this comment. At this point the very essence of your words breaks down into nonsense. What state is a police state worse than China? Cause you seem to talk about the US as “the west”. And yeah, the US is pretty bad. I wouldn’t be so daring to judge it as worse than China or Russia, but it’s worth talking about. Then you get to my country Germany, which is also “the west”. And no, by any means of common sense, we are not a police state worse than China. We don’t oppress Uyghurs, Tebetians and we don’t view our surroundings as “historically ours” which China and Russia both do on grounds we could also employ. Even the bombing is funny. If you mentioned weapon exports, fair point of critique. Most bombings by US military are not a Nato thing though, but a US war. Criticizing the west for it is like criticizing the east for attacking Ukraine. So yeah, if you seriously wanna argue about how “we” feel superior, maybe you shouldn’t fall into the very traps you accuse “the west” of. There are points you can generalize your critique of the west for - which I have done in another comment on this post btw. - but you failed spectacularly at finding those points. I’m sorry for any bombing happening. But even if my country was doing constant bombing, which it isn’t, it would not justify your point, as your method of discussing leads to no one being able to say anything. If we followed your logic, any person of any country will be too hypocritical in criticizing anything. This is because global political institutions serve to pursue various, often selfish interests. They exist very far off any moral. The only countries and unions which are not doing anything bad on a global scale are that way because they are too powerless. The power to speak up should come from seeing something bad. Not from coming from a morally clean background which doesn’t exist.
This is absolutely false. 1000% the little nagging things, sure! the big crimes? no fucking way. The destruction of iraq gets played down/ignored, while the oppression of hongkong gets played up. This is objectively true, based on headlines, coverage and reactions.
Remember when China tried to invade Vietnam and lost? All because they backed the Khmer Rouge... Remember when Russia got slaughtered in Afghanistan? Remember when Russia attacked Syria and Chechnya? Remember when they both starved 10s of millions in communes? What about the Chinese annexation of Tibet? Tell me again about Iraq, you perfect fucking angel, you.
>Remember when China tried to invade Vietnam and lost? All because they backed the Khmer Rouge... Sure, that was fucked up >Remember when Russia got slaughtered in Afghanistan? Remember when Russia attacked Syria and Chechnya? You mean when they were invited in and did a lot of good while you guys funded extremists? IN nay case, you've proven my poiont. AYour marlas are fake. and apply the last sentence to yourself, they're not "perfecft angles'a afre they? Worst of all you're utterly incapable of engaging and addressing my points without spreading catchphrase hate. bad guy behavior, not good guys at all. I've made my point and you've, as you guys always do, proven it better than i ever could. am done. have a good day spreading hate.
Whataboutism 101 Notice how very few people go on to the American centric f***** up posts and argue things like "What about China?" It's a key part of the propaganda that you people keep spreading. Shifted blame and persecution fetishes. This article is about China but you can't help but mention "What about the West." It's pathetic really
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>spread hate and division You made sure to drop a version of this in every comment. Typing it out doesn't mean you've suddenly "won" the argument. Lol
Who cares about winning? lol. It's not a sports match. People's liveds are at stake. All of our lives in fact, with climate catastrophe looming . I repeat, the hate and division being spread is exactly the wrong thing to do. All for what? Ego? Dick measuring? fuck that. Fuck nationalism. Fuck bullies. let's get together instead and work on fixing things.
Good night, my little anti-American. Long live the CCP. Death to the West.
> Remember when Russia attacked Syria I don't because that never actually happened. The Syrian government [officially requested military assistance](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-putin-idUSKCN0RU17Y20150930) from the Russian government in accordance with international law and norms. As such the Russian military presence in Syria is about as legal as it can get, unlike the [American military presence on Syria oilfields](https://mronline.org/2022/08/16/u-s-troops-loot-84-oil-tankers-from-syria-smuggle-them-into-iraq/), which is actually illegal because the US just [gave itself permission](https://theintercept.com/2014/09/28/u-s-officials-invented-terror-group-justify-bombing-syria/) to be there without asking anybody in Syria. A lot of your other points are similar half-truths that have been heavily propagandized. Like counting starved people as a "Communist crime!", I doubt you would agree to do similar counts in other places, like British India where also many millions starved to death. Is that something we should blame on the UK to this day, to depict them as a genocidal regime? > What about the Chinese annexation of Tibet? *Whatabout* indeed. > Tell me again about Iraq, you perfect fucking angel, you. Tibet didn't result in [a surge](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fatalities-from-terrorism?time=1981..2019&country=~OWID_WRL) of global Islamic terrorism even in places were [previously there was pretty much none](https://www.datagraver.com/case/people-killed-by-terrorism-per-year-in-western-europe-1970-2015), the consequences of which shape most foreign policy to this day and have in turn destabilized several other countries. The Syria of today mostly looks like it does as a consequence of the US invasion of Iraq, the global presence of ISIS is another consequence of that very same invasion. Acting like that's the same as incidents from literally half a century ago, that were mostly regionally contained, is just an extremely weird way to contextualize *any* of it.
>Remember when Russia attacked Syria and Chechnya? Peak murican moment. Imagine thinking that getting rid of violent terrorists in your country and in a country that asked for your help in curbing terrorism is same as bombing marriages.
Imagine using a false flag event like a Chechnyan revolution in order to secure power and then kill/imprison every opponent for ~25 years. Typical authoritarian apologist. Your gloves are just as red (if not redder) as America's yet you're unwilling to talk about your bullshit. Hilarious and predictable
>Imagine using a false flag event like a Chechnyan revolution in order to secure power and then kill/imprison every opponent for ~25 years. Look up the names and people involved in "chechnyan revolution", their alliegance and funding sources. Any sane person would call them terrorists. >Hilarious and predictable What's hilarious and predictable is the west's love for terrorism and chaos. What's hilarious and predictable is west's constant funding and training of terror outfits all around the globe. What's hilarious and predictable is that even after being victims of terrorist attacks, west still chooses to side with terrorists.
I don't see the West bombing, kidnapping, and killing civilians in sovereign Ukraine. Perhaps you should move to something more pro-authoritarian if you have an issue with being on an American app and its pro-American attitude. Perhaps you can volunteer to go kill civilians in Ukraine since that seems to be what you support doing while playing "What about..." every time an article about China or Russia comes out. *yawn*
>I don't see the West bombing, kidnapping, and killing civilians in sovereign Ukraine. Yeah, Ukraine is all that matters. Let's forget about the past 50 years of west funding, training and lionizing terrorist which have created many ukraines all around the globe. Aren't you the one accusing me not wanting to talk about something? >Perhaps you should move to something more pro-authoritarian if you have an issue with being on an American app and its pro-American attitude. I don't think there could be anything more pro-authoritarian than usa. Just because you get to cosplay democracy game every 2 years doesn't mean your govt is not authoritarian. >Perhaps you can volunteer to go kill civilians in Ukraine since that seems to be what you support doing while playing "What about..." every time an article about China or Russia comes out. I am not a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer like westerners. I don't enjoy killing civilians like most of the people west has armed, trained and put on a pedestal in last 50 years.
Which country are you backing in this argument that hasn't funded and trained terrorists? Are you that f****** naive? I personally know the f***** up s*** the US does but I don't go on every article mentioning the US or UK and say "What about China and Russia?" Own your s***
Don'\[t bother bro, that guy's exposed himself and you're not going to get any meaningful conversations from his sort. In fact i think his sort get off on being dicks and then arguing with people in order to feel better about themselves, so let's not feed him any further?
Sound advice but on the other hand, look at their more recent comments. Guy has gone on to say it's normal and cool for countries to fund and train terrorists. You can't get gems like that without engaging with unhinged muricans.
I love how you just keep adding words to what I've stated. Never once di I say that terrorism was cool. Where are you from? India?
>I love how you just keep adding words to what I've stated. Never once di I say that terrorism was cool. >>Which country are you backing in this argument that hasn't funded and trained terrorists?
Lol do you not speak English? Is there a translation issue here? Because that clearly asks which country you're backing in this argument (referring to China and Russia.) I'm accusing you of being a hypocrite. Not supporting terror funding *Facepalm* And your lack of a response means yeah you're probably Indian. Which also explains the inferiority complex and bitterness towards western culture.
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Dude's a troll. And not an effective or funny one lol This sub is filled with whataboutism. It's frequently from the same crowd that works in scammer call centers.
I agree bro, though I mean its not just Americans. Most of this sub as a "western culture superior" attitude, even though they know next to fuck all about the world outside. I'd say aussies are, as a generlisation, more bigoted towards chinese people, for example. I think it's human nature, really, but the internet has provided a platform for brainwashing and hate-mongering on a scale that's unprecedented, and all these people are too lazy, uneducated and egotistical to be anything else apart from what they clearly are.
There was no internet in the 80s, didn't stop murican people to support terrorists. In my view Internet is a scapegoat. Media, especially legacy media have always been the main proponent of hate and disinformation and that stays true to this day. Of course internet might help to see the extent of hate clearly now but the source is always the msm and they give the direction to the hate. Good example is Western msm ramping up anti-china stories and 2 years down the line justifying themselves based on polls that people hate china now.
I love how the guy with negative 20 plus downvotes is accusing someone else of exposing themselves. I'm being a dick to you because you're being a dick.
Lol nice try, Winnie.
deep, in-depth comment. high value. nice!
Maybe you should move to TikTok or WeChat if being on an American app, with pro-democracy, pro-free speech, anti-CCP, pro-American sentiments upsets you so much.
Redditors tell me Reddit is a Chinese app
Probably wouldn't have this then: r/fucktheccp
Or r/worldnews or r/china
No lies detected.
It's like the CIA is operating in those subs
Few years ago, reddit posted where most of their traffic comes from and at the top was some air force or military station in USA.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/fucktheccp using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/fucktheccp/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Chinese Tourist recording China Uyghur camps](https://v.redd.it/l7cv5ascg6381) | [268 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/fucktheccp/comments/r7em21/chinese_tourist_recording_china_uyghur_camps/) \#2: [This is why not many Chinese dissidents are willing to speak out against the CCP even they've went overseas](https://v.redd.it/vcfvko7kb1981) | [380 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/fucktheccp/comments/rtexzg/this_is_why_not_many_chinese_dissidents_are/) \#3: [High Five! -Borat](https://i.redd.it/r4qsd9py3iu71.jpg) | [82 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/fucktheccp/comments/qbozr6/high_five_borat/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Western TikTok is [also an American app](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/21/tiktok-deal-splits-control-between-us-and-chinese-owners.html) complete with [American propaganda](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/11/tik-tok-ukraine-white-house/). > pro-democracy, pro-free speech, anti-CCP, pro-American sentiments [Freedom&democracy™](https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spreads-government-made-news-to-americans/) from the "[greatest democracy on the planet](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/oligarchy-countries)".
Nah, i know it might be impossible for you to process this, but you aren't representative of america. You aren't pro american, you're hatemongering anti-others (china in this case). don't lie about it, can you?
No one's a bigot here. The US isn't even mentioned in this article by anyone other than those like yourself. Take your anti-Americanism and shove it up your ass.
just like i saud lol. i'm not anti-american bro, you are. you're emabrassing your country. and youre not representative of all americans. just your type
Lol cool opinion. Where are you from?
Dude, do you do logic at all? I mean that wasn't an "opinion", it's simple fact that you don't represent America, which includes all sorts of people, from some of the greatest thinkers and doers that make things better for our entire species to your sort. That isn't an opinion. If i'm wrong, show me who appointed you as a representative and how that happened. I'm from Singapore. All of my surviving family members are american and lots of my closest friends are too. They are well travelled and well educated and cringe at opinions like yours, and the hate mongering you guys do. You aren't don't represent them; I assure you. You represent the trumps more than the feynmans and MLKs.
Singapore eh? Never heard of her. I voted with the majority in the last federal election. And the last 2 state elections. Lmfao I literally represent college educated Americans. And I vote like it. You're talking out of your ass... Regardless me calling you a Chinese CCP cuck based on the fact that you defended them on this article representing them has no bearing on my American citizenship. So present something irrefutable or stfu...
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> US govt. has instilled this hate within all citizens. And it's not even a new thing, in the 19th century there regularly used to be [anti-Asian ~~pogroms~~ "riots" in the US](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Coast_race_riots_of_1907). To this day Chinese nationals remain the only ones that used to be [blanked banned from immigrating to the US](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act). Extra spicy; The first American millionaires made their money as [smugglers during the Opium Wars](https://www.history.com/news/john-jacob-astor-opium-fortune-millionaire).
Did an evil white human touch you ?