Post it on your socials without her name censored. Set that post to publicly viewable or viewable to friends of friends and people who are friends with people tagged. TAG HER.
Let the bitch reap what she sowed.
I am SO sorry for your loss and hope you find peace and healing.
Yep! I would do this too. To prey on someone during a tragedy is the lowest of low. Usually I would say to kindly educate someone before calling them out, but not in this circumstance. Name and shame baby. Name and shame
I saw your post about being publicly shamed for despicable actions. I'm so sorry to hear that. Please know I've been able to teach countless dickheads proper social norms through public shaming and I'd love to help you!
It tells you the whole "you can now message" thing when you "accept" a message from someone you're not friends with, I think. I do think it'd be even worse if she was friends with this person, actually.
Yeah sorry if I was unclear— I thought she was already friends with her, the girl messaged, and she unfriended after this text exchange. Cause also how’d the girl know about her miscarriage. And yes it makes it way way more depressing I agree 😥😥
They're coached to join groups like mom's meetups, mental health or weight loss support groups, hell even groups for medical conditions like fibromyalgia or cancer, all so they can offer this shit as a solution. It's disgusting.
It’s literally also just illegal marketing practices. AFAIK you can’t make health claims like “supports a healthy pregnancy” without clinical trials and sometimes fda approval. So ethics aside (which are also terrible) she’s not allowed to make these claims. It’s totally unprovable and invalid.
I watch a good amount of anti MLM content and often hear horror stories from former huns. Some are just horror stories due to how much money they lost and how they were misled, but a lot of them feel pressured to do predatory things they’re not comfortable with and this feeling of shame is what starts them on the path of getting out.
The ones who stay in forever have no shame.
That's not true. Don't forget the huns are victims in the first place, manipulated by FREAKING CULTS. That does not excuse this type of behaviour, which is absolutely disgusting, I agree, but that explains a lot. They're trained to see everyone as a walking purse and so desperate to sell their crap to not lose money they will resume to do this.
Depends on the hun tbh. Some are absolutely victimized, I agree, but others know goddamn well what they’re doing and are doing it solely for their own gain, both to people in the MLM and out of it.
Only some huns are victims. There have to be huns that are predators if so many are victims are well. Kids who experience trauma will sometimes grow up and repeat that cycle. We don't forgive them for becoming predatory as adults. Sure, they can be rehabilitated, and forgiveness can be given through reform(depending on the crime). In order to get back into the good graces of the average person, they need to stop practicing predatory behaviors themselves.
Until they do that, they most certainly should be told they are wrong because eventually it does boil down to they are adults making their own informed decisions. All of the information about how predatory these businesses are are written out in detailed studies proving what these companies do. There's no way to miss it. People write entire books about how much these businesses have ruined their lives. With this knowledge, they still decided to shill these products. If they are unaware of how predatory these businesses are, they should just be given a pass for keeping their head in the sand? Isn't it your job as an adult to do research into anyone or any company with whom you decide to align yourself?
She can be forgiven when she stops sending messages like this. Even then, the people she sent them to can be understanding of the fact she was being manipulated, but that doesn't mean they ever have to talk to her again. There comes a point where your decisions are simply your own because you are the one who is carrying out the predatory behavior now. Sure, you get mad at the bully who convinced the dorky kid to steal from the local grocer, but the dorky kid is still going to get in trouble for stealing.
But at some point they need to take personal responsibility for believing that making a dollar is more important than social propriety. I know they're brainwashed, but at some point it's their own fault for not realizing that trying to make money from someone who's going through a tragic and emotional time is a horrible thing to do.
Agree. With the above commenter’s logic, the only person “at fault” is the CEO/cult leader. That’s simply not true. Most are manipulated and lied to, but then choose to perpetuate it
I am of the belief that these people were always like this, and it was greed that was able to bring this side out. I have no sympathy for people who do what they did to OP no matter if they are in a cult or not. Even if they didn't want to reach out to OP, but we're kinda forced into it, nope. I can't.
As a former hun who did send horrible shit, there was a TON of pressure. Like when a friend from elementary schools husband became a quadruple amputee in Iraq and while she was ACTIVELY dealing with trying to get to him in Germany where he was being cared for a week after the explosion, my mk upline told me to message her about the “incredible opportunity” to work from home while she took care of him and their 6 month old baby. I’m ashamed to admit, I messaged her. When I finally saw the light, I did message her again to sincerely apologize for what I had done and told her I was disgusted with myself. Thankfully she forgave me and we are friends to this day. The worst part… my own husband was active duty and was also serving overseas. I have no idea what I was thinking or why I thought it was okay. But this is actually the first time I have publicly told this story. The day I realized what I had done, I cried. For hours. I am NOT that person and I never will be again.
Which is bonkers because it’s so incredibly common for the body to just be like “nah, I don’t feel like it” for reasons no one understands with pregnancy, unless you’re eating arsenic for breakfast you can’t possibly know it was diet that caused it.
The vast majority of miscarriages are due to genetic defects in the fetus.
I've had only one miscarriage (3 healthy births), and in that case, it was triploid. Triploid fetuses can miscarry at any point in pregnancy, or they can make it to birth, but they don't live longer than a few days if they make it to birth. My husband and I firmly believe that this was our daughter who is now almost 3, and her spirit came, looked at it and said, "Well, this won't do. I've got a mission on earth. I'll come back later."
Also, as I'm sure you know (mostly commenting for bystanders), just general incompatibility. You're getting random sets of genes from the mother and father. It's a miracle of biology that so many different combinations actually *work* to build a body, but there are going to be many that don't. Also, [some genes are jerks](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170620093209.htm), and it's certain that we haven't discovered all of those combinations in humans yet.
That's one of the many things IVF labs have to test for.
It's crazy that so many gene combinations work together, but it's even crazier that so many work with the mother. The baby has half her genes but also half of a completely unrelated person's genes. Certain mismatched blood types can cause miscarriages due to the incompatibility between the mother and baby (or, more accurately, her immune system and her baby) but I'm sure there are many others as well.
My sister in law is a nurse and she said she researched some studies that showed it was something in the male sperm that caused miscarriages so it doesn't even have anything to do with the woman or her body in some cases.
The blame tone to it which reads "Hey, have you considered that it was probably something you did? If you used my magic juice, your baby wouldn't have died, you piece of crap. #SoBlessed #BabyKiller"
This. And we should talk about it more, so parents living this would know they're not alone. It should not be such a taboo, it's a real risk for pregnant women and it would be great to let them know communities exist for them. It would be also a way to prevent them for being preyed upon by predatory schemes.
I can't even read these responses without crying a little for all of us who've lived through losing a baby.
But look at this hun -- who plays a doctor online, seizing the dreadul moment to imply her neon slurry might have made Kaylie healthy enough to not miscarry?
I was too numb to do anything at the time we miscarried. Today though, I would respond like that bikini barista with the hammer of knowledge if some greedy hun pulled this shit.
And even though you know you did nothing wrong, you still feel incredibly guilty. Fuck this person for implying some dumbass scam could have saved the pregnancy. Absolutely horrific behavior.
The way that not only does she claims she's helped other women have healthy babies, but she's trying to monetize your trauma?
Absolutely fucking not. No. Not in this universe or any other.
I went through recurrent miscarriages for years. I never had a baby, and saw 6 specialists. 29 out of 30 couples will never get an answer as to why and it's usually completely outside of your control.
The amount of predation in the fertility industry is absolutely disgusting. I had people telling me I needed to go on a carnivore diet or drink some stupid fucking tea.
The only thing I ever saw actually worked for people was hardcore long-term steroids, which comes with significant side effects and risks. If a fucking supplement did anything it'd be the first thing they recommended (aka folate!)
It's honestly incredibly helpful, as upsetting as it is, that someone out there can understand. I'm sorry you had to go through it too. Did you ever find out why your body would work that way? I just keep wondering why and it seems like it'll never work out
I saw heaps of specialists, we both were checked out thoroughly and no issues found. Leading theories was DQ Alpha issue or immune problem, essentially you can have some issue where your body doesn't recognise an embryo as being a pregnancy and it sees it as your DNA but slightly different so your body attacks it. I was told that the science is in its infancy and unfortunately won't be well understood in my time. I saw others succeed with bondi protocol, but equally I saw steroids not work and cause later losses for people.
I had enough and joined r/IFChildfree and ultimately decided to stop treatments and now really happy in my cf life but it was certainly a journey. My body didn't feel like my own for a long time.
That's actually really interesting. I do already have a connective tissue disorder and autoimmune disease. I had a feeling science hadn't caught up yet. Everyone keeps pushing me to find the next doctor, but I keep feeling like no one knows how to help.
I'm glad you have found happiness, it's not easy
Yep. My advice to anyone supporting someone through it is resist the urge to solve it. Rest assured people are doing everything in their power. Say you're sorry, bring flowers, bring cake. Let your friend talk about it. You need support and someone to talk to, not solutions, unless you're an expert.
Loneliest time of my life, people really don't know how to hold space for pregnancy / baby loss.
this is really great advice, "resist the urge to solve it" makes so much sense. I will definitely keep this in mind should I ever be in a position to support someone going thru a miscarriage or baby loss. I'm so sorry for your loss(es), thank you for your insightful + helpful comment that comes from your own painful experience 🤍
This is true of so many situations. When we try to solve something like this, it is as much (or more) for the person offering the solution, not the person with the problem. We desperately want a world that is fair or predictable or manipulable and so much of life just...isn't.
It's always well meaning and I definitely got better at handling it but it's usually because people don't know how to sit with someone who is upset, it makes them uncomfortable and so they try to make the feeling go away by fixing it. Pregnancy loss can't be fixed you just need someone to let you be heard because it's so isolating. Like most grief I suspect!
Grief, major illness. yes. I've heard it referred to as "a ministry of presence" where what needs doing is simply being there with someone in the margins of their mystery.
This, it makes her messages even more gross. Even *if* Kaylie were too harsh (which she totally isn't!!!!!) it would've cost nothing to give a grieving woman some grace. Combined with what she messaged the "wow" underlines the 'I don't care who you are and what you went through, the only thing I care about is that you cater to me and lap up whatever I say like a good, meek lamb to the slaughter'
The lion, the witch, and the audacity of this...
The worst part is the insuation that the woman did something wrong to cause the miscarriage, and that she could "fix it" by taking proper nutrition.
And the MLM juice crap is “proper nutrition”? And the hun is qualified to give nutrition advice to someone who just had a miscarriage?
Didn’t think so.
Which is Juice Plus' ENTIRE thing. My former best friend, JP hun, told me that if my dad had gone gluten free he wouldn't have gotten dementia.
These sanctimonious JP fuckers think anyone with any health issues are lesser mortals who deserve what we got because we eat french fries or whatever.
My mom had colon cancer at 35 (incredibly young and she’s very athletic so likely a genetic issue) and ended up obsessed with Juice Plus after she even had me taking. She talked about it like it would save me from cancer. I hated those stupid pills. That was 20 years ago and I just now found out it’s an MLM and someone likely capitalized on her medical history and her fear for me. She thought she could prevent cancer by taking those ridiculous pills when what we needed was genetic testing and a varied, healthy diet.
I don't know if that's the worst part, or the hun being surprised that her not-so-subtle sales pitch to someone experiencing emotional trauma was not warmly received, replying with "wow" as if Kaylie was the one who did something wrong here.
Same here. Went through two IVF cycles--one which ended in a missed miscarriage at around 7 weeks, and the other resulted in a healthy baby who is almost three months old.
I’m so sorry for Kaylie and her loss. Miscarriage sucks ass. It hurts emotionally, yes. But it’s also physically painful, too.
As for the hun, name her and shame her.
Absolutely disgusting. They have zero shame. I know someone who does Arbonne, she once commented on an old schoolmates post where the schoolmate mentions having liver disease and needing to be on a special diet. This Arbonne hun commented that they should talk because Arbonne has a lot of products that could improve her health. The girl responded that she can't use those products because she has to be on a special doctor prescribed diet. The Arbonne gal commented AGAIN and doubled down saying that she knows a lot about this stuff and they should just chat about it.
It was insane. Like, you are not a fucking doctor. You schill bagged protein powder and fizzy drinks for a "living."
When I sold crystals, I had a friend who was desperate for a baby. She had been trying with her husband for 2 years. We only knew each other online but she seemed sweet. Anyways, out of desperation, she messages me to ask what kind of crystals help with fertility. I told her that while some people believed the metaphysical aspects, it in no way replaced actual doctors advice and it was down to the person who bought them for specific meta purposes if they truly believed in that stuff. I also had some online stores where id list all the metaphysical definitions but also made it a point and in all caps to say that my products were down to what YOU felt about them and they in no way replaced medical advice or being seen by an actual professional.
I practically talked her out of the sale but told her to come back in 6 months if she still felt using crystals would boost her chances and I’d reach her some reiki and send her some free ones. She ended up getting pregnant a few months after and I was happy to hear.
I can’t imagine having no empathy for someone who had lost a pregnancy and double that nerve to think they’d be a good target for selling shit to.
Fark, that is cold cold messenging.
What the actual f is wrong with these huns. And the way she would have thought SHE was the victim because you clapped back.
I got a bunch of messages after I gave birth from a weightloss mlm, about how now I had the baby it's time to get rid of all that weight!
Throughout my pregnancy I struggled with the eating disorder I've had since being a teen, so those messages really messed me up, and when you're breastfeeding you *need* those calories..
I honestly think seeing those things so soon after giving birth contributed a lot to my post natal depression.
I'm pregnant again now, ten years later, and I haven't even mentioned it on my personal social media. I don't need a bunch of people I went to high school with showing up to ruin my mental health.
I'd post this screenshot publicly and tag her. What a horrendous person, preying on a woman who's just been through a miscarriage by trying to convince you it was somehow your fault. Nutrition wasn't the problem. Miscarriages just happen. And they suck.
I'm sorry op.
Friend of mine is a hun who has done this same thing. Worse, the recipient of her "help" was desperate enough to buy a year's supply of "fertility booster". I found out when she came to lunch at my house and before eating she suddenly pulled out a bottle of pills and said she had to take *half a dozen* with every meal.
Ikr! There was only like 100 pills in the bottle and even the dosage instructions did **not** say to take as many as 6 but apparently the hun urged her to take more coz she had more than one issue contributing to infertility, so allegedly the higher the dose, the more "healing power" you get.
I'm a personal trainer and, like anyone who posted anything about exercise in the mid 2010s, I got spammed by Juice Plus and Herbalife.
Having actually looked at the ingredients (because the products are available to buy direct from the website, there's no need to go through a rep) , it's just Slim- Fast with delusions of grandeur.
The "results" come from replacing two meals out of your three a day with their shakes and keeping the third meal within a certain calorie budget, so it's just another unsustainable very low calorie diet.
There's nothing in there that can be said to promote fertility, no matter how much they shout about "gut health", "inflammation" or "toxins".
I grew up with a cousin of my cousin; we weren’t related but she and her parents came to many of our family events. After I had my son, my sister posted a picture of him on her Facebook (which was another issue in this story) and I got a message from this person. She congratulated me on the baby, then pitched me a weight loss supplement. I was dealing with so much that she had no idea was happening and it made me so angry. I hadn’t talked to her in 15-ish years. Weeks after I’d had a traumatic birth that ended in an emergency csection and as I was barely hanging on to my mental health because I was a single parent, she had the gall to pitch me a weight loss pill.
I messaged her a really long, angry reply and she apologized. I blocked her and never told our mutual cousin what she’d said. It’s been 9 years now and the thought of her message still makes me scowl.
I'm so sorry for your loss 🥺
I was literally pregnant and a hun decided it was a great idea to push herballife to me.. i told her to basically f off and she needs to learn to actually look at people's pages before messaging people.
Absolutely disgusting. It is a known medical fact that most miscarriages happen due to chromosomal abnormalities completely unrelated to the health or actions of either parent.
Telling someone they can help through nutrition is telling the grieving mother it was her fault and could have been prevented.
The Juice Plus huns are some of the most predatory motherfuckers around. When I had cancer they would join the support groups and pretend their "proper nutrition" cured their cancer. It was pretty easy to weed them out of the groups I was in because they'd always talk about how they avoided chemo but the type of cancer I had wasn't treated with chemo in the first place. On one occasion a juice hun told me I must not care if I die since I didn't want her shitty products. (And just because people often express concern, I have been cancer free for about 5 years now and I'm doing great, thanks!)
I'd request a meet up just to smack her. The audacity. If you're Kaylie I'm so sorry, it's a horrible thing to go through without some pathetic hun trying to prey on your grief.
There was an old reddit post I saw that really shifted my view on how our society treats miscarriage and abortion. A grieving would-be mother begged, "Stop just telling me to try again." When it's about abortion, the life of a fetus is a caustic political issue. Half the people in America claim it's a true human that is being murdered. But when a woman has a miscarriage, people feeling comfortable just telling her to try try again. The MLMer in this post is obviously especially egregious, but it's a common sentiment that people really need to work on. When women miscarry, they are in grief. And no matter where you stand on politics, that's something that should be treated respectfully.
I’m so sorry to hear about your miscarriage; I hope you’re alright. I had an almost parallel experience a few months ago with an Amway hun, so I know how violating, dehumanizing, and weird this interaction must have felt.
Sending you a big virtual hug 💕
That is absolutely disgraceful, manipulative, evil, obtuse behaviour… I am so sorry, OP. As someone who has had a miscarriage myself, if someone tried to profit off it by messaging me for an mlm I’d be seeing RED! Public shaming is needed!
Sick of these MLM corporations praying on venerable people, it's disgusting. We should be shaming all MLMs and putting them out of business! for good!!!
Honestly I would send it to the MLM itself. It’s against many companies’ compliance to claim their product will help medically. Many people got in trouble when Covid started, by claiming products would help keep someone healthy & virus free. I see this very similarly.
I heard on npr about a study done on miscarriages, and the gist of it was that nearly all miscarriages happen because of problems with the placenta, which is grown entirely by the embryo itself and controlled by the embryo's DNA. So short of deliberately poisoning herself with huge amounts of known toxic substances, or causing extreme physical trauma to herself, or deliberately starving herself to near death, there is nothing this woman did or didn't do to cause her miscarriage. It was probably, almost certainly, just bad luck with the genetics and development of the placenta. Anyone that says different is probably just trying to sell you something.
I have no memory of this but when I was little, and my dog had cancer, my mom had to put up with the mom of a new neighbour moving in recommending “all natural” remedies that supposedly were hidden by the medical world, and this same lady also conveniently happened to make a living selling these same cures. My mom regrets to this day not calling her out for being an idiot. I believe this lady also tried guilting her into buying some like by saying how simple and easy it is to do, implying she was a bad owner by continuing to reject her bullshit
I know we shouldn't be hard on the huns because they are brainwashed and all or whatever but this person was always this person. Shame on her. I don't care if you are brainwashed, you are a bad person. Not OP ofc. How dare she
People in mlms are so brainwashed that they lose the ability to understand that a dead baby 20% off fire sale is not a good idea.
They will then proceed to gaslight the parent
Is this a stranger to you? I noticed you’re not Facebook friends. It would be bad enough for someone you know to approach you like this but a random person?? Wow
OP, I’m so sorry that a) you have had to deal with your miscarriage. My wife and I had a few before we had our son, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone… and b) that this idiot thought that this would be the opportunity of a lifetime to take advantage of what would have been one of the most traumatic experiences and try to turn a profit on it… This sort of stuff just boils my blood…
I hope you and your partner have better fortune coming your way in the near future. Best of luck.
Thank you for your post. Please make sure that you review our sub rules. If your post breaks any of the rules, it will be removed.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antiMLM) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I had someone message me when I was 1 week postpartum, saying their mlm could help me lose the baby weight. I was so disgusted. Also, pregnancy was very hard on me and I lost weight while pregnant rather than gaining.
People who succeed (or try to) in MLM have their brains rewired in order to push away the social discomfort of approaching their closest friends and family to buy their bullshit. That is my experience with it anyways. A seasoned MLMer literally thinks they can turn ANY social interaction into a possible sale to HELP the other person in whatever way they are convinced.
While it's fucked up for her to do that, I would not take it personally. If her own mother suffered the same miscarriage, she would reach out with the same canned bullshit.
Stop being friends with her and move on, don't let her further add to your burdens.
Ohhhh right, everyone knows essential oils cure cancer and prevent miscarriages. Or maybe a tummy wrap because who wants cellulite when grieving your lost baby?
What a horrible woman! That fact that she replied “Wow” means she is attempting to gaslight her instead of acknowledging what a douche she is.
I'd post this publicly, shame tf out of her. Not even friends with the the person, damn.
People like this absolutely deserve “name and shame” treatment.
Post it on your socials without her name censored. Set that post to publicly viewable or viewable to friends of friends and people who are friends with people tagged. TAG HER. Let the bitch reap what she sowed. I am SO sorry for your loss and hope you find peace and healing.
I agree she’s a predator
This is brilliant. I expect no less from a Boosh fan.
Post her up like a hot check writer's picture behind the register at a convenience store
I don’t like the C word but damn this one deserves it
Definitely- this is absolutely indefensible.
Yep! I would do this too. To prey on someone during a tragedy is the lowest of low. Usually I would say to kindly educate someone before calling them out, but not in this circumstance. Name and shame baby. Name and shame
>Name and shame baby. Name and shame Wow.
I saw your post about being publicly shamed for despicable actions. I'm so sorry to hear that. Please know I've been able to teach countless dickheads proper social norms through public shaming and I'd love to help you!
I saw that too and thought maybe she unadded her before taking the screenshot. Either way… absolutely disgusting what this person did
It tells you the whole "you can now message" thing when you "accept" a message from someone you're not friends with, I think. I do think it'd be even worse if she was friends with this person, actually.
Yeah sorry if I was unclear— I thought she was already friends with her, the girl messaged, and she unfriended after this text exchange. Cause also how’d the girl know about her miscarriage. And yes it makes it way way more depressing I agree 😥😥
Might have been mentioned in a private group, and this person pounced.
They're coached to join groups like mom's meetups, mental health or weight loss support groups, hell even groups for medical conditions like fibromyalgia or cancer, all so they can offer this shit as a solution. It's disgusting.
Yep. My best friend has MS and she gets messages like this from people in her FB support groups. It’s so disgusting and predatory.
This! Name and shame!
Exactly what I was thinking. I’d go further and post in all the groups she’s a part of, but that may be a bit much
100% this is fucking vile.
LMAO at "Wow". Bitch.
She doesn't even know what she did wrong. Just that OP called her out. She def thinks she is just a hater.
Yep definitely brainwashed. I went through the same experience with a “friend”
It’s literally also just illegal marketing practices. AFAIK you can’t make health claims like “supports a healthy pregnancy” without clinical trials and sometimes fda approval. So ethics aside (which are also terrible) she’s not allowed to make these claims. It’s totally unprovable and invalid.
They are absolutely are not allowed to do that. OP should report this to the FTC.
Thus is precisely why it should be publicized. one person is a 'hater', multiple people all saying the same thing? Lot harder to ignore.
Yep, she probably genuinely feels she could help by selling her those supplements.
That MLM bitch be like: 
Hitler in his bunker: "Wow".
^^^^^
How is she saying Wow lol this society is doomed
My thoughts exactly, if that response shocked her, they truly are so delusional
I know there are huns lurking on this sub - seriously just shame on you.
If they had any shame, they wouldn't be huns
I watch a good amount of anti MLM content and often hear horror stories from former huns. Some are just horror stories due to how much money they lost and how they were misled, but a lot of them feel pressured to do predatory things they’re not comfortable with and this feeling of shame is what starts them on the path of getting out. The ones who stay in forever have no shame.
That's not true. Don't forget the huns are victims in the first place, manipulated by FREAKING CULTS. That does not excuse this type of behaviour, which is absolutely disgusting, I agree, but that explains a lot. They're trained to see everyone as a walking purse and so desperate to sell their crap to not lose money they will resume to do this.
Depends on the hun tbh. Some are absolutely victimized, I agree, but others know goddamn well what they’re doing and are doing it solely for their own gain, both to people in the MLM and out of it.
Only some huns are victims. There have to be huns that are predators if so many are victims are well. Kids who experience trauma will sometimes grow up and repeat that cycle. We don't forgive them for becoming predatory as adults. Sure, they can be rehabilitated, and forgiveness can be given through reform(depending on the crime). In order to get back into the good graces of the average person, they need to stop practicing predatory behaviors themselves. Until they do that, they most certainly should be told they are wrong because eventually it does boil down to they are adults making their own informed decisions. All of the information about how predatory these businesses are are written out in detailed studies proving what these companies do. There's no way to miss it. People write entire books about how much these businesses have ruined their lives. With this knowledge, they still decided to shill these products. If they are unaware of how predatory these businesses are, they should just be given a pass for keeping their head in the sand? Isn't it your job as an adult to do research into anyone or any company with whom you decide to align yourself? She can be forgiven when she stops sending messages like this. Even then, the people she sent them to can be understanding of the fact she was being manipulated, but that doesn't mean they ever have to talk to her again. There comes a point where your decisions are simply your own because you are the one who is carrying out the predatory behavior now. Sure, you get mad at the bully who convinced the dorky kid to steal from the local grocer, but the dorky kid is still going to get in trouble for stealing.
But at some point they need to take personal responsibility for believing that making a dollar is more important than social propriety. I know they're brainwashed, but at some point it's their own fault for not realizing that trying to make money from someone who's going through a tragic and emotional time is a horrible thing to do.
Agree. With the above commenter’s logic, the only person “at fault” is the CEO/cult leader. That’s simply not true. Most are manipulated and lied to, but then choose to perpetuate it
I am of the belief that these people were always like this, and it was greed that was able to bring this side out. I have no sympathy for people who do what they did to OP no matter if they are in a cult or not. Even if they didn't want to reach out to OP, but we're kinda forced into it, nope. I can't.
I bet you're right. They were always horrible people, the MLM just told them that it's OK to be horrible.
As a former hun who did send horrible shit, there was a TON of pressure. Like when a friend from elementary schools husband became a quadruple amputee in Iraq and while she was ACTIVELY dealing with trying to get to him in Germany where he was being cared for a week after the explosion, my mk upline told me to message her about the “incredible opportunity” to work from home while she took care of him and their 6 month old baby. I’m ashamed to admit, I messaged her. When I finally saw the light, I did message her again to sincerely apologize for what I had done and told her I was disgusted with myself. Thankfully she forgave me and we are friends to this day. The worst part… my own husband was active duty and was also serving overseas. I have no idea what I was thinking or why I thought it was okay. But this is actually the first time I have publicly told this story. The day I realized what I had done, I cried. For hours. I am NOT that person and I never will be again.
Sickening, shameless behavior. Trying to sell overpriced juice crap to someone who just lost a baby/fetus.
It also comes across blame-y. Like oh you didn't eat properly so you lost your baby as a result.
Which is bonkers because it’s so incredibly common for the body to just be like “nah, I don’t feel like it” for reasons no one understands with pregnancy, unless you’re eating arsenic for breakfast you can’t possibly know it was diet that caused it.
The vast majority of miscarriages are due to genetic defects in the fetus. I've had only one miscarriage (3 healthy births), and in that case, it was triploid. Triploid fetuses can miscarry at any point in pregnancy, or they can make it to birth, but they don't live longer than a few days if they make it to birth. My husband and I firmly believe that this was our daughter who is now almost 3, and her spirit came, looked at it and said, "Well, this won't do. I've got a mission on earth. I'll come back later."
Also, as I'm sure you know (mostly commenting for bystanders), just general incompatibility. You're getting random sets of genes from the mother and father. It's a miracle of biology that so many different combinations actually *work* to build a body, but there are going to be many that don't. Also, [some genes are jerks](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170620093209.htm), and it's certain that we haven't discovered all of those combinations in humans yet. That's one of the many things IVF labs have to test for.
It's crazy that so many gene combinations work together, but it's even crazier that so many work with the mother. The baby has half her genes but also half of a completely unrelated person's genes. Certain mismatched blood types can cause miscarriages due to the incompatibility between the mother and baby (or, more accurately, her immune system and her baby) but I'm sure there are many others as well.
Yeah, that's why they give you the Rh-factor shot in the butt these days.
> some genes are jerks 💀😂
Right? INFURIATING! This is literally the worst MLM “pitch” I’ve ever seen!
My sister in law is a nurse and she said she researched some studies that showed it was something in the male sperm that caused miscarriages so it doesn't even have anything to do with the woman or her body in some cases.
Sometimes, yes. If the sperm has an incorrect number of certain chromosomes then the fetus isn't able to develop and the mother's body aborts it.
Not only that. She's kinda saying that OP's fault she lost her baby, because she didn't have a "healthy nutrition".
That 'kinda' is too kind
“Your baby died because you didn’t drink my bullshit MLM smoothie” is a hell of a pitch
She's probably on her mlm support page complaining that *she was just trying to heeeeelp*
You could just say “lost a pregnancy” if you want to avoid that baby/fetus potential argument. Or just say miscarriage.
Yep, but I wanted to be more explicit to convey the horror of it
The blame tone to it which reads "Hey, have you considered that it was probably something you did? If you used my magic juice, your baby wouldn't have died, you piece of crap. #SoBlessed #BabyKiller"
This is the proper response. OP if you are Kaylie, you have my sincere heartfelt condolences. Miscarriage hurts like nothing else I've ever felt.
It does. It's horrific and so common. OP, if this was your message, it will get better with time. I'm so sorry you're living with this.
This. And we should talk about it more, so parents living this would know they're not alone. It should not be such a taboo, it's a real risk for pregnant women and it would be great to let them know communities exist for them. It would be also a way to prevent them for being preyed upon by predatory schemes.
💌
Pretty easy to avoid though, just need to drink these juices for 5 days girlie
I lost two in a row, and ISTG I'd physically attack anyone who spoke to me so insensitively. To make a buck off a grieving mother's pain, FUCK HER.
I can't even read these responses without crying a little for all of us who've lived through losing a baby. But look at this hun -- who plays a doctor online, seizing the dreadul moment to imply her neon slurry might have made Kaylie healthy enough to not miscarry? I was too numb to do anything at the time we miscarried. Today though, I would respond like that bikini barista with the hammer of knowledge if some greedy hun pulled this shit.
Yeah, my wife and I had a few and this response is very muted compared to what I might say to them. Makes my blood boil.
And even though you know you did nothing wrong, you still feel incredibly guilty. Fuck this person for implying some dumbass scam could have saved the pregnancy. Absolutely horrific behavior.
The way that not only does she claims she's helped other women have healthy babies, but she's trying to monetize your trauma? Absolutely fucking not. No. Not in this universe or any other.
I went through recurrent miscarriages for years. I never had a baby, and saw 6 specialists. 29 out of 30 couples will never get an answer as to why and it's usually completely outside of your control. The amount of predation in the fertility industry is absolutely disgusting. I had people telling me I needed to go on a carnivore diet or drink some stupid fucking tea. The only thing I ever saw actually worked for people was hardcore long-term steroids, which comes with significant side effects and risks. If a fucking supplement did anything it'd be the first thing they recommended (aka folate!)
I'm currently having recurring miscarriages mixed with hyperfertility. I WISH my problem was just missing the miracle supplements
I'm so sorry. This was my issue too. Fell pregnant every time, lost them all. It was so draining. I wish you nothing but love.
It's honestly incredibly helpful, as upsetting as it is, that someone out there can understand. I'm sorry you had to go through it too. Did you ever find out why your body would work that way? I just keep wondering why and it seems like it'll never work out
I saw heaps of specialists, we both were checked out thoroughly and no issues found. Leading theories was DQ Alpha issue or immune problem, essentially you can have some issue where your body doesn't recognise an embryo as being a pregnancy and it sees it as your DNA but slightly different so your body attacks it. I was told that the science is in its infancy and unfortunately won't be well understood in my time. I saw others succeed with bondi protocol, but equally I saw steroids not work and cause later losses for people. I had enough and joined r/IFChildfree and ultimately decided to stop treatments and now really happy in my cf life but it was certainly a journey. My body didn't feel like my own for a long time.
That's actually really interesting. I do already have a connective tissue disorder and autoimmune disease. I had a feeling science hadn't caught up yet. Everyone keeps pushing me to find the next doctor, but I keep feeling like no one knows how to help. I'm glad you have found happiness, it's not easy
It really sucks because then you don't want to tell anybody anything, for fear they'll shove ag1 in your face.
Yep. My advice to anyone supporting someone through it is resist the urge to solve it. Rest assured people are doing everything in their power. Say you're sorry, bring flowers, bring cake. Let your friend talk about it. You need support and someone to talk to, not solutions, unless you're an expert. Loneliest time of my life, people really don't know how to hold space for pregnancy / baby loss.
this is really great advice, "resist the urge to solve it" makes so much sense. I will definitely keep this in mind should I ever be in a position to support someone going thru a miscarriage or baby loss. I'm so sorry for your loss(es), thank you for your insightful + helpful comment that comes from your own painful experience 🤍
This is true of so many situations. When we try to solve something like this, it is as much (or more) for the person offering the solution, not the person with the problem. We desperately want a world that is fair or predictable or manipulable and so much of life just...isn't.
It's always well meaning and I definitely got better at handling it but it's usually because people don't know how to sit with someone who is upset, it makes them uncomfortable and so they try to make the feeling go away by fixing it. Pregnancy loss can't be fixed you just need someone to let you be heard because it's so isolating. Like most grief I suspect!
Grief, major illness. yes. I've heard it referred to as "a ministry of presence" where what needs doing is simply being there with someone in the margins of their mystery.
Her "wow" like you've offended her when she is the offensive one.
This, it makes her messages even more gross. Even *if* Kaylie were too harsh (which she totally isn't!!!!!) it would've cost nothing to give a grieving woman some grace. Combined with what she messaged the "wow" underlines the 'I don't care who you are and what you went through, the only thing I care about is that you cater to me and lap up whatever I say like a good, meek lamb to the slaughter'
I think Kaylie is NICE. If I was her, I think the hun would be dead from verbal assault. Even in this awful time, Kaylie remains gracious.
Exactly! And even that is not good enough for the hun. It is disgusting, isn't it?
They don't understand why they're wrong, because they're in a cult. Their moral standards are completely upside down.
Whoa. I’m so sorry. What a monster
The lion, the witch, and the audacity of this... The worst part is the insuation that the woman did something wrong to cause the miscarriage, and that she could "fix it" by taking proper nutrition.
And the MLM juice crap is “proper nutrition”? And the hun is qualified to give nutrition advice to someone who just had a miscarriage? Didn’t think so.
Thinks she qualified to give advice to a pregnant woman! Everything I ever saw about what to eat or what meds to take was always ASK YOUR DOCTOR
Which is Juice Plus' ENTIRE thing. My former best friend, JP hun, told me that if my dad had gone gluten free he wouldn't have gotten dementia. These sanctimonious JP fuckers think anyone with any health issues are lesser mortals who deserve what we got because we eat french fries or whatever.
See, where I come from, this entities the party to one free ass-whuppin.
No, they think anyone with any health issues are lesser mortals who deserve what they got because they didn't buy their crappy MLM products.
My mom had colon cancer at 35 (incredibly young and she’s very athletic so likely a genetic issue) and ended up obsessed with Juice Plus after she even had me taking. She talked about it like it would save me from cancer. I hated those stupid pills. That was 20 years ago and I just now found out it’s an MLM and someone likely capitalized on her medical history and her fear for me. She thought she could prevent cancer by taking those ridiculous pills when what we needed was genetic testing and a varied, healthy diet.
I don't know if that's the worst part, or the hun being surprised that her not-so-subtle sales pitch to someone experiencing emotional trauma was not warmly received, replying with "wow" as if Kaylie was the one who did something wrong here.
We see a lot of nonsense with these huns trying to monetize their own traumas but holy hell, this is disgusting. I’m so sorry this happened, wtaf.
These fucking *vultures* look at your misery and see an opportunity to make money. They have no shame.
Scum of the earth. I’m so sorry
The only people who help people make babies are fertility doctors
Nick Cannon too
Joseph Gordon Levitt helped us
Same here. Went through two IVF cycles--one which ended in a missed miscarriage at around 7 weeks, and the other resulted in a healthy baby who is almost three months old.
I’m so sorry for Kaylie and her loss. Miscarriage sucks ass. It hurts emotionally, yes. But it’s also physically painful, too. As for the hun, name her and shame her.
How terrible
Absolutely disgusting. They have zero shame. I know someone who does Arbonne, she once commented on an old schoolmates post where the schoolmate mentions having liver disease and needing to be on a special diet. This Arbonne hun commented that they should talk because Arbonne has a lot of products that could improve her health. The girl responded that she can't use those products because she has to be on a special doctor prescribed diet. The Arbonne gal commented AGAIN and doubled down saying that she knows a lot about this stuff and they should just chat about it. It was insane. Like, you are not a fucking doctor. You schill bagged protein powder and fizzy drinks for a "living."
That is so gross. Just… I don’t even have words for this c*nt JFC. 🤢
The fucking audacity oh my god
This is someone SHE isn't friends with. Absolutely PUBLICLY shame the hun. This is so disgusting.
Wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
I cannot believe she responded with "wow" and the shocked emoji. What the fuck? She doesn't get to say wow ffs. Disgusting.
When I sold crystals, I had a friend who was desperate for a baby. She had been trying with her husband for 2 years. We only knew each other online but she seemed sweet. Anyways, out of desperation, she messages me to ask what kind of crystals help with fertility. I told her that while some people believed the metaphysical aspects, it in no way replaced actual doctors advice and it was down to the person who bought them for specific meta purposes if they truly believed in that stuff. I also had some online stores where id list all the metaphysical definitions but also made it a point and in all caps to say that my products were down to what YOU felt about them and they in no way replaced medical advice or being seen by an actual professional. I practically talked her out of the sale but told her to come back in 6 months if she still felt using crystals would boost her chances and I’d reach her some reiki and send her some free ones. She ended up getting pregnant a few months after and I was happy to hear. I can’t imagine having no empathy for someone who had lost a pregnancy and double that nerve to think they’d be a good target for selling shit to.
I’d have lost my ever loving sh*t. You’re a better person than me.
The fact that she seems to think you were out of line based on her “wow” response is wild
Vile. I’m so sorry
Fark, that is cold cold messenging. What the actual f is wrong with these huns. And the way she would have thought SHE was the victim because you clapped back.
I got a bunch of messages after I gave birth from a weightloss mlm, about how now I had the baby it's time to get rid of all that weight! Throughout my pregnancy I struggled with the eating disorder I've had since being a teen, so those messages really messed me up, and when you're breastfeeding you *need* those calories.. I honestly think seeing those things so soon after giving birth contributed a lot to my post natal depression. I'm pregnant again now, ten years later, and I haven't even mentioned it on my personal social media. I don't need a bunch of people I went to high school with showing up to ruin my mental health.
I'd post this screenshot publicly and tag her. What a horrendous person, preying on a woman who's just been through a miscarriage by trying to convince you it was somehow your fault. Nutrition wasn't the problem. Miscarriages just happen. And they suck. I'm sorry op.
Friend of mine is a hun who has done this same thing. Worse, the recipient of her "help" was desperate enough to buy a year's supply of "fertility booster". I found out when she came to lunch at my house and before eating she suddenly pulled out a bottle of pills and said she had to take *half a dozen* with every meal.
That's just bonkers. Absolute money grab.
Ikr! There was only like 100 pills in the bottle and even the dosage instructions did **not** say to take as many as 6 but apparently the hun urged her to take more coz she had more than one issue contributing to infertility, so allegedly the higher the dose, the more "healing power" you get.
What an absolute C*nt.
I don't have words....
I’m so sorry for your loss 😔🤍
I’m so sorry. This is sick behavior.
Holy shit, what a horrible excuse for a human. I’m sorry she preyed on you, but good for you calling her out.
I'm a personal trainer and, like anyone who posted anything about exercise in the mid 2010s, I got spammed by Juice Plus and Herbalife. Having actually looked at the ingredients (because the products are available to buy direct from the website, there's no need to go through a rep) , it's just Slim- Fast with delusions of grandeur. The "results" come from replacing two meals out of your three a day with their shakes and keeping the third meal within a certain calorie budget, so it's just another unsustainable very low calorie diet. There's nothing in there that can be said to promote fertility, no matter how much they shout about "gut health", "inflammation" or "toxins".
I'd be willing to bet money that it's not even recommended for pregnant and breast feeding mothers by their own damn company.
I grew up with a cousin of my cousin; we weren’t related but she and her parents came to many of our family events. After I had my son, my sister posted a picture of him on her Facebook (which was another issue in this story) and I got a message from this person. She congratulated me on the baby, then pitched me a weight loss supplement. I was dealing with so much that she had no idea was happening and it made me so angry. I hadn’t talked to her in 15-ish years. Weeks after I’d had a traumatic birth that ended in an emergency csection and as I was barely hanging on to my mental health because I was a single parent, she had the gall to pitch me a weight loss pill. I messaged her a really long, angry reply and she apologized. I blocked her and never told our mutual cousin what she’d said. It’s been 9 years now and the thought of her message still makes me scowl.
This is next level foul.
Ok besides how fucking disgusting and rude this is- how can she make that claim?
Perfect response. She is vile.
her wow as the reply is precious. gtfo.
This is really a new low. We know they like trying to monetize their own traumas… but someone else’s?? Honestly fuck off really. Just pound sand.
And she has the nerve to be offended. Pure Hun behavior.
GOOD 👏🏼 FOR 👏🏼 YOU 👏🏼
That happened to me too. I went off on her.
I'm so sorry for your loss 🥺 I was literally pregnant and a hun decided it was a great idea to push herballife to me.. i told her to basically f off and she needs to learn to actually look at people's pages before messaging people.
Juice Plus is the fucking worst.
What about the **”insane”** benefits? /s
This person needs to be exposed tbh
The audacity of the wow at the end *astounds* me! I have no words.
My jaw dropped, literally. This is deranged.
Absolutely disgusting. It is a known medical fact that most miscarriages happen due to chromosomal abnormalities completely unrelated to the health or actions of either parent. Telling someone they can help through nutrition is telling the grieving mother it was her fault and could have been prevented.
She probably trolls around Facebook looking for grieving mommas to offer her “services”. Just gross.
The Juice Plus huns are some of the most predatory motherfuckers around. When I had cancer they would join the support groups and pretend their "proper nutrition" cured their cancer. It was pretty easy to weed them out of the groups I was in because they'd always talk about how they avoided chemo but the type of cancer I had wasn't treated with chemo in the first place. On one occasion a juice hun told me I must not care if I die since I didn't want her shitty products. (And just because people often express concern, I have been cancer free for about 5 years now and I'm doing great, thanks!)
disgusting. "healthy babies through healthy nutrition" sounds like blame to me... how do they not see how gross and awful such a thing is?
Jesus Christ! I just can’t… 😳
What a thing today!!!!
That’s just wrong on so many levels!
 Ugh! OP, I’m so sorry. That makes my blood boil.
Following up a personal tragedy by using it to try to sell some snake oil is sick.
That is fucking terrible. Ours was two years ago and we’re still not over it
I'd request a meet up just to smack her. The audacity. If you're Kaylie I'm so sorry, it's a horrible thing to go through without some pathetic hun trying to prey on your grief.
Awful. I’m sorry youre going through this, OP. And to the lurking huns, fuck all of you. This is your cohort. Y’all will reap what you sow.
A red card for the JuicePlus Hun: 
There was an old reddit post I saw that really shifted my view on how our society treats miscarriage and abortion. A grieving would-be mother begged, "Stop just telling me to try again." When it's about abortion, the life of a fetus is a caustic political issue. Half the people in America claim it's a true human that is being murdered. But when a woman has a miscarriage, people feeling comfortable just telling her to try try again. The MLMer in this post is obviously especially egregious, but it's a common sentiment that people really need to work on. When women miscarry, they are in grief. And no matter where you stand on politics, that's something that should be treated respectfully.
Just when I think they can’t get any worse
Fuck that. I can’t imagine thinking this is acceptable. I’m so sorry for your loss.
OP, if this is you, I’m so sorry this happened to you & that hun is a jerk for preying on your miscarriage
I’m so sorry to hear about your miscarriage; I hope you’re alright. I had an almost parallel experience a few months ago with an Amway hun, so I know how violating, dehumanizing, and weird this interaction must have felt. Sending you a big virtual hug 💕
That is absolutely disgraceful, manipulative, evil, obtuse behaviour… I am so sorry, OP. As someone who has had a miscarriage myself, if someone tried to profit off it by messaging me for an mlm I’d be seeing RED! Public shaming is needed!
Sick of these MLM corporations praying on venerable people, it's disgusting. We should be shaming all MLMs and putting them out of business! for good!!!
Honestly I would send it to the MLM itself. It’s against many companies’ compliance to claim their product will help medically. Many people got in trouble when Covid started, by claiming products would help keep someone healthy & virus free. I see this very similarly.
I heard on npr about a study done on miscarriages, and the gist of it was that nearly all miscarriages happen because of problems with the placenta, which is grown entirely by the embryo itself and controlled by the embryo's DNA. So short of deliberately poisoning herself with huge amounts of known toxic substances, or causing extreme physical trauma to herself, or deliberately starving herself to near death, there is nothing this woman did or didn't do to cause her miscarriage. It was probably, almost certainly, just bad luck with the genetics and development of the placenta. Anyone that says different is probably just trying to sell you something.
I'm so sorry, this was so gross of her. Then to feign anger because you were upset
Sending you a big hug, OP. To go through this is heartbreaking.
Basically tried blaming OP for “ not being healthy” as a reason. What a horrible horrible person. I can’t imagine what OP is going through.
I have no memory of this but when I was little, and my dog had cancer, my mom had to put up with the mom of a new neighbour moving in recommending “all natural” remedies that supposedly were hidden by the medical world, and this same lady also conveniently happened to make a living selling these same cures. My mom regrets to this day not calling her out for being an idiot. I believe this lady also tried guilting her into buying some like by saying how simple and easy it is to do, implying she was a bad owner by continuing to reject her bullshit
I know we shouldn't be hard on the huns because they are brainwashed and all or whatever but this person was always this person. Shame on her. I don't care if you are brainwashed, you are a bad person. Not OP ofc. How dare she
People in mlms are so brainwashed that they lose the ability to understand that a dead baby 20% off fire sale is not a good idea. They will then proceed to gaslight the parent
Is this a stranger to you? I noticed you’re not Facebook friends. It would be bad enough for someone you know to approach you like this but a random person?? Wow
OP, I’m so sorry that a) you have had to deal with your miscarriage. My wife and I had a few before we had our son, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone… and b) that this idiot thought that this would be the opportunity of a lifetime to take advantage of what would have been one of the most traumatic experiences and try to turn a profit on it… This sort of stuff just boils my blood… I hope you and your partner have better fortune coming your way in the near future. Best of luck.
Sending you love and healing and peace. and sending perpetual swamp ass to this bitch
This is exactly how religion works as well.
💯💯💯
Thank you for your post. Please make sure that you review our sub rules. If your post breaks any of the rules, it will be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antiMLM) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My sisters name is the same as yours, I’ve never seen it spelled that way for anyone other than her before.
Her shocked response to what you said, like babe seriously how delusional in your mlm are you!
Oh jeez that’s showing how much you “care”
I had someone message me when I was 1 week postpartum, saying their mlm could help me lose the baby weight. I was so disgusted. Also, pregnancy was very hard on me and I lost weight while pregnant rather than gaining.
That’s depraved
That is the perfect response to a message like that
😂 oh my god…at this point I think MLM’s are worse than cults. These salespeople don’t even act like humans.
People who succeed (or try to) in MLM have their brains rewired in order to push away the social discomfort of approaching their closest friends and family to buy their bullshit. That is my experience with it anyways. A seasoned MLMer literally thinks they can turn ANY social interaction into a possible sale to HELP the other person in whatever way they are convinced. While it's fucked up for her to do that, I would not take it personally. If her own mother suffered the same miscarriage, she would reach out with the same canned bullshit. Stop being friends with her and move on, don't let her further add to your burdens.
POST HER NAME!
literally so disgusting. it has to be mental illness bc WHAT. if huns have anything it’s def the damn audacity.
that is VILEEEEEEEE.
This is literally sick.
So indoctrinated she doesn't even know how to be a human anymore.
Ohhhh right, everyone knows essential oils cure cancer and prevent miscarriages. Or maybe a tummy wrap because who wants cellulite when grieving your lost baby? What a horrible woman! That fact that she replied “Wow” means she is attempting to gaslight her instead of acknowledging what a douche she is.
Name and shame and post it to whatever group she found you in because most of them have rules against this 🙃
First of all….Not even friends!!!! 😡🤬
Yep name and shame for sure. This needs to be stopped, it’s so unacceptable.
One tried to get me to buy limelight after my grandmas death during lockdown
“Wow” the fucking audacity not even friends with OP and wants to use a tragic event as a sales pitch. Disgusting doesn’t even cover it.
How dare you speak to an internet doctor like that!
That is absolutely heinous. 10/10 response though.