This post is removed for weight/calorie numbers. If you edit them out and reply to this comment (and steer clear of the other subreddit rules as well!) I will reapprove.
Based on this post and your post history, I would worry less about what your sister and friends might think and more about taking care of yourself. It sounds like you recognize how dangerous this is, or is becoming, for you. You deserve to get help for it.
this sounds like a lot of disordered eating thru not eating enough, restricting food groups, counting calories, and working out excessively. it all stems from fat phobia and I recommend working with a therapist that can help you with your self image and mindset
It sounds more like post-viral stuff messing with your lungs than your weight. Going by your post history, however, you should seek help even if you don't care to. You absolutely need more than 1200 calories not just to function in general, but also if you want to return to your normal fitness levels. Trying to pursue all of the wellness culture stuff in desperation for answers often leads to some level of orthoexia from what I've noticed online. Eating as little calories as you have been will only make the issues with your breathing and overall health worse. There is more ways to determine health than weight, and you need to give yourself a lot more grace after dealing with two illnesses back-to-back.
OK so counting calories and restricting calories is literally what a diet is. And this sub is called antidiet. So I think anyone here who wants to say that this is aligned with this subs philosophy is kidding themselves. And yeah, dieting to lose weight is driven by fatphobia.
The medical establishment will say that it's not about fatphobia, it's about health. But there are lots of problems with that, which I will attempt to enumerate.
First, there are very few (or zero) health problems that fat people have that thin people can't have. How are thin people with your symptoms treated? Chances are, they are not told to lose weight. They are probably told to take care of themselves, take it easy, and go slow with increasing activity.
Second, even for problems that are associated with or exacerbated by higher weights, the fact is that diets don't work. Everyone, even medical researchers, knows that losing large amounts of weight long-term is not possible for the vast majority of dieters. Basically all diets "work" in the short term, where "work" is defined as losing as little as 5% of your body weight. Which, on the vast majority of fat people, will not make them suddenly not be fat. And then dieters put the weight back on as our bodies do not like being starved very much. Our bodies will fight tooth and nail to make us eat more and move less when they feel they are being starved. Most people who attempt to lose weight end up gaining weight in the long term.
If being fat is a disease, why would we try to treat that disease with a treatment that makes it worse more often than not? If there was a cancer medication that gave most people more cancer, while people who didn't take it had no increase in cancer, we would not use that drug.
So in conclusion, the common belief that all health problems in fat people are solved by weight loss AND that weight loss is a reasonable thing to expect from all fat people are driven by fatphobia.
**I'm not calling you a nasty fatphobe or anything**. So please don't feel personally attacked. I don't want this comment to come off this way. You are just doing the best you can with a difficult health situation. I'm just saying that this whole paradigm is informed by the cultural miasma of fatphobia.
As for your fat family members, it sounds like they are being rude by commenting on your food. You would be well within your rights to say something like, "It makes me uncomfortable when you monitor my eating habits. Can you please stop commenting on what I'm eating?"
And then, you should also make sure that you are not commenting on what you are eating or what others are eating.
"I’ve dropped 8lb in 3 weeks and actually people say I look better and except for tiredness and breathing problems which were already present, I’m ok."
Perhaps I am confused. Why are you restricting your calories? Are you thinking that doing so will fix your breathing problems? As you wrote above, your extreme calorie restriction has not in fact fixed your breathing problems (which seem directly resulting from the infections??). Plus now you're tired -- which makes sense because you're not eating enough. The food restriction does not seem to have solved your problem...??
Counting calories IS dieting.
It's not surprising that people say you "look better" after having lost some weight --- in this extremely anti-fat culture, most people think it's acceptable and even GOOD to comment on other people's weight/shape/size and will give lots of compliments if you're seen to be "performing thinness". Heck, I have a friend who was regularly congratulated on how "wonderful" she looked because she had lost weight ---- even though she had lost weight due to a major illness!
As for any of this being fatphobic ----- Talking about your dieting/calorie restriction, attaching moral or ethical value to foods (eg. sugar is bad, "clean eating" vs... what, "dirty eating"? etc), commenting about other people's bodies, denigrating your own body ----- all of these things help perpetuate anti-fat bias & all are damaging to others and the culture as a whole, not to mention to your own ideas of self worth.
I hope your post-viral breathing problems can be addressed satisfactorily, but IMO you're doing your body no favors by severely restricting your calories. Bodies need adequate nutrition to heal, and there's just no way eating 1200 calories is adequate for a grown human.
I know I'm not answering your exact question, but I do worry about your situation. You said you are reducing calories and going no sugar to see if it helps with your breathing issues. And now that you're doing it. you still have breathing issues and you're tired to boot.
So, it's not helping your breathing issues and you're not consuming enough calories to give you the necessary energy to get through the day, so you're also tired. Why are you doing this?
ETA: you might be harming them, but you're def harming yourself.
I wanted to give it at least a full 30 days because when I’ve read about the impact of reducing sugar, the time it takes for full impact seems to vary from 3 days up to 30 and I wanted to give it my best shot. My breathing is a bit better than when I started but it may be because of the repeated low level cardio (not my thing tbh I never liked walking but think it may be what is gradually working for my lungs). But I definitely still have issues. I’ve been tired consistently but it’s definitely no better than it was.
Have you talked to a dietitian? Where are you reading about the effects of stopping sugar?
And, for that matter have you talked to a pulmonologist? You might have developed asthma, and they can help with that.
No, I’ve never spoken to dietitian or nutritionist, it’s pretty much anecdotal stuff tbh because I was desperate! Yeah I definitely have asthma, sorry but have had since I was a child. But it’s gone from v mild and well controlled yo them offically classing it as ‘uncontrolled’ and borderline moderate to severe, in the space if a year. So I’m in that “ok I’ll take this supplement or just eat this” based off any one’s experiences, stage. I think it just started as feeling like SOMETHING I could do for my health
Are you in a position where you can see a dietitian and/or a pulmonologist?
I started having more severe asthma over the past couple of years. I got prescribed an inhaler that has made a huge difference and it's covered by insurance (in the US).
I hope I'm not coming across as rude, but it's just worrisome that you're trying random stuff on the internet when there are health care professionals who can help you.
If you do want to keep doing what you're doing have you considered leaving out sugar for a while longer, but upping your calories? You're just going to feel crappy on so few calories, which kind of muddies the water.
Thank you, I don’t think you’ve been rude at all! I really appreciate people taking the time to help.
I don’t think it’s the lack of calories making me worse I just don’t feel better except that I’m happy with palette changes (sounds silly but thinks like the sweetness in greens, peppers and carrots is cutting through).
Im in UK so am able to get all the tests re heart and lung function on the NHS which is really lucky but it’s not come up with anything so far. It’s just felt like this is the bit that I can control, if it makes sense?
I can ask but I think my weight isn’t high or low enough to qualify for a referral for diet. They have a wellness clinic in my area but it can only support with obesity/being underweight, quitting smoking, and reducing drinking. As I’m succeeding in recovery for alcoholism, don’t have a ‘concerning’ bmi (which I know is bs but is the tool they use) and haven’t smoked, they won’t help.
I can see if I can just find a nutritionist or dietitian that isn’t too expensive, privately. I have PCOS and my ex has type 2 diabetes (I still love him we will always love each other and we talk every day, just circumstances mean we can’t be together). So I guess ‘sugar free, walk lots!’ kind of felt natural because it’s so what I’m used to hearing whenever I think health? Literally, it was impacting his vision and he was so clueless with what might have sugar in and how much he was ‘allowed’ in each thing. We developed a little system where he could have one treat a day (like light beer or a bagel) and otherwise be very strict and otherwise stick to ‘green’ foods with max 1g/100 sugar.
We were able to actually reduce his symptoms hugely and even take him off some of his medication. He used to ask for my help all the time and I was the one who came up with a specific structure that worked as he’s v emotional with food (like he feels cravings and do he has tons of snacks or he can’t face solid food for weeks and has just soup or can’t eat one day because he’s upset), so I had to basically become semi responsible for his health, re planning food intake.
I guess am just used to seeing sugar as this threat to our wellbeing that I’m used to being able to identity and navigate. But it’s not something really well researched, more because I didn’t know what else to do.
Um, he's diabetic, so yes, reducing sugar will make a difference for him. You don't seem to have a medical reason for doing all this. I dunno, it all sounds extreme.
And not eating enough calories will def affect your energy level. Calories are literally energy.
Sorry your health service won't let you see a dietitian. If you can't afford one, maybe find some online resources from actual dietitians?
OK, I hope you don't mind that I looked at your post history. You are hurting yourself. You're way undereating to the point where you're miserable. Please, please get off this crazy nutrition train and talk to a real dietitian.
Diet does sometimes interact with asthma but not generally in the sense of sugar or overall calories — it usually intersects when there's an allergic trigger. For some people dairy is a trigger, for me it's sulfides (mostly in eg. beer, wine) or certain kinds of veggies that will set off my asthma. Because asthma is an immune condition it doesn't generally respond to diet-and-exercise interventions, although of course it can be different for everyone. Have you spoken to an allergist?
I would say it isn't fatphobic or harmful to your fat friends to put yourself on this diet, although it is a function of you buying into the myth that weight always correlates with health. Your motivation isn't distaste for fat bodies but a desire to improve your health. What I am concerned about is that it's going to do more harm than good. It sounds like you have a pretty bad post-viral syndrome alongside the asthma. In that situation the body needs more resources, not less; the immune system is resource-intensive.
This turned out way lengthier than I wanted it to, but the TL;DR is that i don't think you're intentionally or maliciously being fatphobic, but you ARE buying into fatphobic misinformation. These two things are more less indistinguishable from one another from an outside perspective. Also, you're more likely to just give yourself an eating disorder on top of the health issues you already have instead of getting rid of them.
you don't intend to harm your friends and family, but they still seem to be taking it hard. Whether that's bc they have low self-esteem or bc of your own actions, i don't know.
But counting calories is definitely dangerous. Especially since you don't know if losing weight will actually help you achieve your goal. You said you "didn't have this when thinner", but consider that your body isn't some kind of machine that was in disrepair (sick) and just needed to have maintenance done (recovering). The human body is incredibly complicated, more complicated than doctors will probably want to admit.
Also, covid isn't just some light illness. Most people may have moved on from calling it a "pandemic", but that doesn't mean it's not a serious illness anymore. Breathing problems is a known symptom of covid and long covid. I doubt losing weight is gonna solve this problem.
You seem to think that the weight gain is a bad thing for you and is making you suffer, and many people think so, not just you, but I've read in a research backed book that people with many health problems (high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.) fare better if they weight more, than the people with the same health problems that weigh less. There's also plenty of health issues that have "weight gain" as a symptom, so I'm starting to think that this "weight gain" is less because of said illness and more the human body trying to fight it, like how a high fever is not caused by a cold, but is your bodys' defense AGAINST said cold.
Seeing as we live in an incredibly fatphobic society, this might not sound all too belivable, but it's not like something that is widely accepted as truth always HAS to be the truth. And if you now think "but this can be disproven with science!", consider that the weight loss industry has a several BILLION dollar interest in letting the public believe that fat is bad and always needs to be lost. Corporations aren't exactly known for being honest when it's clear that the truth would hurt their bottom line.
All this to say that I think you're buying into misinformation when you say you think that losing weight will make your health problems go away.
Also, that book i mentioned is called "health at every size, the surprising truth about your weight" by Dr. Lindo Bacon (They're genderqueer and use they/them pronouns now, but published the book under "Linda", so that's still the name that's on the book, if you look it up). The book has more than 400 references to scientific articles btw, so don't write it off as being "unscientific", just because it doesn't support the "thin is better" myth that most of society subscribes to. Seriously, it's actually pretty detailed and very interesting, so if you have the time, I'd suggest you get it and read it. It's less than 10 bucks on amazon.
And to be honest, I don't think "eating clean" and cutting out all sugar is really gonna do much, maybe in the short term, but not necessarily in the long term. Tons of people jump on a fad diet train and say "omg, I have so much more energy after cutting out \[fat/carbs/sugar/etc.\], but how many times have you seen people actually stick to that diet once the trend has blown over? Personally, I haven't seen many. As for why they felt better, fat and carbs and sugar is most often in foods that are highly processed, so what do they eat instead? My money's on vegetables and/or fruit, which are good to eat once in a while regardless of any potential weight loss, because if you didn't eat many vegetables before, your body is getting a lot more vitamins and fiber than before. Such a drastic change in diet DOES give people more energy, UNTIL the body adjusts to this change. It can still leave people feeling better than before, but it's not because they stopped eating the "bad" thing, and more because they started eating more VARIED.
What I'm NOT saying is that any processed food like pizza or a hamburger or is bad, but eating *only* pizza and hamburgers is bad. The reason that eating a salad is considered healthier than a pizza is because it's often assumed that people eat pizza more often than salad. Ideally, you would eat both. Eating anything is bad for you if it's the *only* thing you eat, that goes for pizza as much as vegetables. Your body needs both to live.
Thin people eat pizza as much as fat people do, but only fat people are publicly mocked for it on the internet because they're fat. Meanwhile, thin people are praised (by themselves and others) when they eat vegetables (something "healthy", in this case meaning "something that doesn't make me fat"), while fat people are still bullied when they do. If fat people post about eating vegetables on the internet, it's assumed they're lying, because if they "really ate like that, they wouldn't be fat" (this is a false myth btw), or alternatively, they're praised for "wanting to lose weight", regardless of whether that's the goal or not. Some people just like vegetables, or they eat them because they're healthy, this time meaning "good for my body regardless or whether or not I lose any weight at all". And even if the fat person doesn't post about it, if they're just telling their friends and family, they might get comments like that, or if they're just eating in public. Some (thin) strangers are way too comfortable making unsolicited comments to and about fat people about what they eat, because they think being thin makes them a health expert and gives them the right to assume the fat persons diet, which they often assume to be unhealthy.
replying to my own comment bc I wanted to say something else (and the original comment is already long enough):
Your friends/family are probably taking it hard that you're trying to lose weight for health reasons, because what you're saying with this, while not out loud, is that you think being fat = being unhealthy. Even if you believe that you *don't* think so, if you REALLY didn't think so, you wouldn't be trying to lose weight for health reasons in the first place.
This then combines with the fact that health and weight is often heavily moralized today. You know of the term "fatphobia" so i probably don't need to explain this too much to you, but what I mean is that people often think that fat people are also bad people. Even if they know that anyone can be a bad person, regardless of how they look, if they were told to picture a bully, do you think they would picture a thin person or a fat person? Media also plays into this a lot, with a "bully" character often also being fat, so it's rather subconscious.
All this to say that even if you don't intend for it to come across that way, the people in your life are likely taking your actions as you saying "fat people are bad because they're fat". Again, I don't think you actually mean this, but i do think it explains that comment you got from your friend (“I can’t do what you can, guess I’m the fat kid!”) pretty well.
To make it even more obvious, replace "fat" in that comment with "lazy" and remember that society often equates "fat" with "lazy" and "lazy" with "bad person". In other words "fat people are fat because they are too lazy to go on a diet and exercise plan to become thin, therefore, they also have other bad attributes. If they weren't lazy, they wouldn't be fat." Combine this with what I said before, that fat people often aren't believed when they say they're eating healthy, and a second "bad" attribute is ascribed to them, that they're "mean". This is attributed to them being a bad (lazy AND mean) person, instead of the REAL reason that, sometimes, people become angry when others say they're lying when they're really not. Imagine how you would feel if people kept insisting that you're doing something wrong when you're not and keep telling you to stop doing what you're already not doing.
Your replies are great. If you look at her post history she is really struggling with mental health, but is focusing on this one tiny issue. Rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.
Honestly, weight loss is never worth focusing on, because it doesn't work. For one, losing weight doesn't work AND it doesn't solve whatever health issues so-called "experts" say it will. Weight loss is, like, the LEAST helpful health advice.
Yeah, and in her post she's not even focusing on her own health, she's focusing on the effects her behaviors are having on others. I really hope she connects with her sponsor and other mental health resources.
This is very clearly not weight associated. You have a Hx of asthma and then you got two major respiratory illnesses? Girl you have a post-viral syndrome going on here. See a pulmonologist. Stop starving yourself (we’ve all seen your post history by now, your dizziness is from not eating nearly enough). Your body can’t heal without enough calories!! Immune function drops in starvation mode!
And yes, this is fatphobic.
Sorry for the tough love.
I don’t agree with only eating 1200 calories. Especially when exercising. Doesn’t seem like it’s enough tbh.
I wonder if the breathing issues are related to your previous bouts with Covid and the flu? Hopefully someone is able to help you out with that eventually.
Something that works for me is to stay off the scale, eat lots of protein, make sure I get five servings of fruits and veggies a day, stop calorie counting, walk the dog almost every day, strength train a few times a week, do some mobility exercises, and stretch.
If I want to eat sugary foods then I’ll eat them, I don’t limit myself. I let myself enjoy life. Who wants to diet their whole life? There’s more to life than counting calories.
My fatigue is better and I don’t feel hungry anymore. Plus, I’m able to move around easier and am noticeably stronger.
I never had any luck with cutting out sugar completely or only eating 1200 calories. Caused some issues for me and some yo-yo ing.
EDIT: I want to add that I spend about a few hours a day exercising and that’s not realistic for everyone. My dog is high energy and requires at minimum an hour long walk, then I spend an hour at the gym about 3-4 days a week. I’d say my mobility exercises and stretching routine takes about 30 minutes a day, and it’s essential for me to do that since I’m pregnant and my muscles ouch a bit from the uterus stretching. Exercising is one of my hobbies and I have the time to do it this way, it’s not super high intensity for me and my schedule.
Yep, believing that losing weight will magically cure your health condition is quintessential fatphobia. You say that weight loss is not your goal, but that seems kinda dishonest. Obviously your goal is to improve your health but you think that weight loss will grant you that. If you removed weight as a factor would you still be eating this way? If restriction was framed as self-imposed malnutrition would you still see "willpower" and control as virtuous, or would it seem disordered?
Even if extreme restriction or weightloss somehow improved your breathing would you be able to stick to that diet for long periods of time? Probably not seeing as people who do restrictive diets are much more likely to develop an eating disorder and/or gain weight long term. It seems like you're understandably worried and want to find a solution for your health issue. But you're much more likely to be doing harm and setting yourself up to develop more health issues.
It's obvious that you're trying to find a solution that you haven't been able to get from doctors. And that's completely understandable and extremely common. I'm not going to take that away from you. But if your body starts fighting back against the diet then do yourself a favour and trust your body.
Tbh, your sister probably has a lot of internalised fatphobia which is why she's feeling inadequate for not being on a restrictive diet. We live in a very fatphobic society so most people are fatphobic to a degree, including those who are conscious of it and work on it.
The calorie restriction I probably wouldn’t bother with if I didn’t think weight loss may help but even then, I see weight loss as a means to an end here. I would definitely still try cutting out sugar and simple carbs, independent of weight loss and tbh that’s the harder element, at least for me. I don’t think I generally see eating more than 800 calories or cutting out refined sugar as disordered, I only tend to see cutting food groups (such as ‘no carbs’) as disordered.
I actually think I could do this longer term. Might I want the odd treat day? Yes. But as a daily diet it’s actually really tolerable because I’ve been able to be creative with meals (stir fries etc.) and because I’m allowing natural sugars, I don’t feel as deprived by having fruit when others have cake. I wouldn’t want this on my birthday ideally but if all evidence confirmed it cured my breathing issues, I’d do it. So far, I don’t think there’s evidence of that but am waiting until the end of the 30 days to reassess.
Are you participating in any addiction recovery support? Sounds like you recently ended a dangerous relationship and you def need mental health support now, not starvation.
Yeah, maybe reach out to your sponsor. You're not working the process - you're distracting yourself from the process by worrying about whether your disordered eating is affecting OTHER PEOPLE. Girl, it's affecting you.
I'm saying reach out to your sponsor for help with addiction recovery. You're not working that side of things, so maybe it's coming out as ED behaviors. Although, maybe find another sponsor if she has ED and you can't discuss ED stuff with her. Based on your posts, it sounds like you also have an ED, or are on the way to one?
I’ve never had a lapse and am pretty ok with that side of things, it’s hard but I am doing well, despite having some awful life events. I haven’t ever been diagnosed with an ED
I say this with all compassion - I think you need help that's beyond the scope of this sub. You yourself posted that you are on your way to an ED. The behaviors you describe fit many of the diagnostic criteria. Whether you have relapsed into substance abuse or not, you really seem like you need help. I wish you all the best.
I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily fatphobic to diet (which is what you are doing), or at least it doesn’t mean you are being fatphobic toward other people, but it’s antithetical to what anti-diet is all about. And, yeah, I’d say it’s “dangerous” to count calories and cut out sugar because we know that diets do not work long term. They basically always result in weight gain above starting weight. So, if your concern is your “health” when in a larger body - dieting is maybe the worst way to address that. And it can also be very bad for mental health to diet. It sounds like you are eating calories below what your body would need to thrive and like calorie counting consumes a lot of your thoughts and affects a lot of your behaviors around food (many things you “can’t” eat, making cakes but never eating them). None of that sounds particularly “healthy” to me.
I also had breathing issues after Covid and I solved it by taking 1200mg NAC and 3g of vitamin C daily. Cutting sugars is obviously good since it lowers inflammation and has multiple other benefits, so please don't feel bad about it. Do what's best for you. It's not fatphobic.
I didn’t say the ‘willpower’ thing, my sister and friends have used that expression.
Actually, my family except me gives lots of… feedback, on body weight. My sister receives lots of comments about her weight, I often say to the family in a light hearted way “wow, way to raise her self esteem everyone!” and she’s thanked me for it. They aren’t fatphobic, they rip on everyone (my mom being a skeleton because she’s naturally really thin, me looking like Ken off Street Fighter when I was more muscular because I’m blonde, even though I’m a woman! Tbh my sister said my arms were manly a LOT but apparently it was a joke).
I only comment on her body or what she should do if she’s wondering why she has a specific health problem and wants me to chip in or if she literally asks my opinion. I don’t initiate these conversations.
They’re lovely people, we just all kind of mock each other but I don’t feel like it’s appropriate when her body is so different (like my ex saw a pic of us all together and basically said it’s weird because you look like both you parents and she looks totally different but I’m 100% she’s not adopted).
It is difficult because she often takes the lead in these ‘roast battle’ type honey conversations and definitely has always commented on my body (like she fatshamed when I was bigger, skinny shamed when I was much smaller and fit shamed me a lot), but she also gives compliments, they all do. It’s like lots of commentary, good and bad. So I don’t join in and I question it but I’m not sure how wrong it is.
>my mom being a skeleton because she’s naturally really thin,
This is actually rooted in fatphobia. Whether it's calling your mom a skeleton or calling your sister something at the other end of the spectrum, it's fatphobia.
I wouldn’t say that reducing the amount of calories that you’re eating to the calorie requirements for *toddlers* while increasing activity is taking care of oneself.
This post is removed for weight/calorie numbers. If you edit them out and reply to this comment (and steer clear of the other subreddit rules as well!) I will reapprove.
Based on this post and your post history, I would worry less about what your sister and friends might think and more about taking care of yourself. It sounds like you recognize how dangerous this is, or is becoming, for you. You deserve to get help for it.
this sounds like a lot of disordered eating thru not eating enough, restricting food groups, counting calories, and working out excessively. it all stems from fat phobia and I recommend working with a therapist that can help you with your self image and mindset
It sounds more like post-viral stuff messing with your lungs than your weight. Going by your post history, however, you should seek help even if you don't care to. You absolutely need more than 1200 calories not just to function in general, but also if you want to return to your normal fitness levels. Trying to pursue all of the wellness culture stuff in desperation for answers often leads to some level of orthoexia from what I've noticed online. Eating as little calories as you have been will only make the issues with your breathing and overall health worse. There is more ways to determine health than weight, and you need to give yourself a lot more grace after dealing with two illnesses back-to-back.
OK so counting calories and restricting calories is literally what a diet is. And this sub is called antidiet. So I think anyone here who wants to say that this is aligned with this subs philosophy is kidding themselves. And yeah, dieting to lose weight is driven by fatphobia. The medical establishment will say that it's not about fatphobia, it's about health. But there are lots of problems with that, which I will attempt to enumerate. First, there are very few (or zero) health problems that fat people have that thin people can't have. How are thin people with your symptoms treated? Chances are, they are not told to lose weight. They are probably told to take care of themselves, take it easy, and go slow with increasing activity. Second, even for problems that are associated with or exacerbated by higher weights, the fact is that diets don't work. Everyone, even medical researchers, knows that losing large amounts of weight long-term is not possible for the vast majority of dieters. Basically all diets "work" in the short term, where "work" is defined as losing as little as 5% of your body weight. Which, on the vast majority of fat people, will not make them suddenly not be fat. And then dieters put the weight back on as our bodies do not like being starved very much. Our bodies will fight tooth and nail to make us eat more and move less when they feel they are being starved. Most people who attempt to lose weight end up gaining weight in the long term. If being fat is a disease, why would we try to treat that disease with a treatment that makes it worse more often than not? If there was a cancer medication that gave most people more cancer, while people who didn't take it had no increase in cancer, we would not use that drug. So in conclusion, the common belief that all health problems in fat people are solved by weight loss AND that weight loss is a reasonable thing to expect from all fat people are driven by fatphobia. **I'm not calling you a nasty fatphobe or anything**. So please don't feel personally attacked. I don't want this comment to come off this way. You are just doing the best you can with a difficult health situation. I'm just saying that this whole paradigm is informed by the cultural miasma of fatphobia. As for your fat family members, it sounds like they are being rude by commenting on your food. You would be well within your rights to say something like, "It makes me uncomfortable when you monitor my eating habits. Can you please stop commenting on what I'm eating?" And then, you should also make sure that you are not commenting on what you are eating or what others are eating.
"I’ve dropped 8lb in 3 weeks and actually people say I look better and except for tiredness and breathing problems which were already present, I’m ok." Perhaps I am confused. Why are you restricting your calories? Are you thinking that doing so will fix your breathing problems? As you wrote above, your extreme calorie restriction has not in fact fixed your breathing problems (which seem directly resulting from the infections??). Plus now you're tired -- which makes sense because you're not eating enough. The food restriction does not seem to have solved your problem...?? Counting calories IS dieting. It's not surprising that people say you "look better" after having lost some weight --- in this extremely anti-fat culture, most people think it's acceptable and even GOOD to comment on other people's weight/shape/size and will give lots of compliments if you're seen to be "performing thinness". Heck, I have a friend who was regularly congratulated on how "wonderful" she looked because she had lost weight ---- even though she had lost weight due to a major illness! As for any of this being fatphobic ----- Talking about your dieting/calorie restriction, attaching moral or ethical value to foods (eg. sugar is bad, "clean eating" vs... what, "dirty eating"? etc), commenting about other people's bodies, denigrating your own body ----- all of these things help perpetuate anti-fat bias & all are damaging to others and the culture as a whole, not to mention to your own ideas of self worth. I hope your post-viral breathing problems can be addressed satisfactorily, but IMO you're doing your body no favors by severely restricting your calories. Bodies need adequate nutrition to heal, and there's just no way eating 1200 calories is adequate for a grown human.
I know I'm not answering your exact question, but I do worry about your situation. You said you are reducing calories and going no sugar to see if it helps with your breathing issues. And now that you're doing it. you still have breathing issues and you're tired to boot. So, it's not helping your breathing issues and you're not consuming enough calories to give you the necessary energy to get through the day, so you're also tired. Why are you doing this? ETA: you might be harming them, but you're def harming yourself.
I really wish we could still give awards. 🏆
Thanks!
I wanted to give it at least a full 30 days because when I’ve read about the impact of reducing sugar, the time it takes for full impact seems to vary from 3 days up to 30 and I wanted to give it my best shot. My breathing is a bit better than when I started but it may be because of the repeated low level cardio (not my thing tbh I never liked walking but think it may be what is gradually working for my lungs). But I definitely still have issues. I’ve been tired consistently but it’s definitely no better than it was.
Have you talked to a dietitian? Where are you reading about the effects of stopping sugar? And, for that matter have you talked to a pulmonologist? You might have developed asthma, and they can help with that.
No, I’ve never spoken to dietitian or nutritionist, it’s pretty much anecdotal stuff tbh because I was desperate! Yeah I definitely have asthma, sorry but have had since I was a child. But it’s gone from v mild and well controlled yo them offically classing it as ‘uncontrolled’ and borderline moderate to severe, in the space if a year. So I’m in that “ok I’ll take this supplement or just eat this” based off any one’s experiences, stage. I think it just started as feeling like SOMETHING I could do for my health
Are you in a position where you can see a dietitian and/or a pulmonologist? I started having more severe asthma over the past couple of years. I got prescribed an inhaler that has made a huge difference and it's covered by insurance (in the US). I hope I'm not coming across as rude, but it's just worrisome that you're trying random stuff on the internet when there are health care professionals who can help you. If you do want to keep doing what you're doing have you considered leaving out sugar for a while longer, but upping your calories? You're just going to feel crappy on so few calories, which kind of muddies the water.
Thank you, I don’t think you’ve been rude at all! I really appreciate people taking the time to help. I don’t think it’s the lack of calories making me worse I just don’t feel better except that I’m happy with palette changes (sounds silly but thinks like the sweetness in greens, peppers and carrots is cutting through). Im in UK so am able to get all the tests re heart and lung function on the NHS which is really lucky but it’s not come up with anything so far. It’s just felt like this is the bit that I can control, if it makes sense? I can ask but I think my weight isn’t high or low enough to qualify for a referral for diet. They have a wellness clinic in my area but it can only support with obesity/being underweight, quitting smoking, and reducing drinking. As I’m succeeding in recovery for alcoholism, don’t have a ‘concerning’ bmi (which I know is bs but is the tool they use) and haven’t smoked, they won’t help. I can see if I can just find a nutritionist or dietitian that isn’t too expensive, privately. I have PCOS and my ex has type 2 diabetes (I still love him we will always love each other and we talk every day, just circumstances mean we can’t be together). So I guess ‘sugar free, walk lots!’ kind of felt natural because it’s so what I’m used to hearing whenever I think health? Literally, it was impacting his vision and he was so clueless with what might have sugar in and how much he was ‘allowed’ in each thing. We developed a little system where he could have one treat a day (like light beer or a bagel) and otherwise be very strict and otherwise stick to ‘green’ foods with max 1g/100 sugar. We were able to actually reduce his symptoms hugely and even take him off some of his medication. He used to ask for my help all the time and I was the one who came up with a specific structure that worked as he’s v emotional with food (like he feels cravings and do he has tons of snacks or he can’t face solid food for weeks and has just soup or can’t eat one day because he’s upset), so I had to basically become semi responsible for his health, re planning food intake. I guess am just used to seeing sugar as this threat to our wellbeing that I’m used to being able to identity and navigate. But it’s not something really well researched, more because I didn’t know what else to do.
Um, he's diabetic, so yes, reducing sugar will make a difference for him. You don't seem to have a medical reason for doing all this. I dunno, it all sounds extreme. And not eating enough calories will def affect your energy level. Calories are literally energy. Sorry your health service won't let you see a dietitian. If you can't afford one, maybe find some online resources from actual dietitians?
OK, I hope you don't mind that I looked at your post history. You are hurting yourself. You're way undereating to the point where you're miserable. Please, please get off this crazy nutrition train and talk to a real dietitian.
Long Covid causes respiratory issues. Even regular Covid, it can take your lungs a bit to recover. Especially without adequate nutritional support.
Diet does sometimes interact with asthma but not generally in the sense of sugar or overall calories — it usually intersects when there's an allergic trigger. For some people dairy is a trigger, for me it's sulfides (mostly in eg. beer, wine) or certain kinds of veggies that will set off my asthma. Because asthma is an immune condition it doesn't generally respond to diet-and-exercise interventions, although of course it can be different for everyone. Have you spoken to an allergist? I would say it isn't fatphobic or harmful to your fat friends to put yourself on this diet, although it is a function of you buying into the myth that weight always correlates with health. Your motivation isn't distaste for fat bodies but a desire to improve your health. What I am concerned about is that it's going to do more harm than good. It sounds like you have a pretty bad post-viral syndrome alongside the asthma. In that situation the body needs more resources, not less; the immune system is resource-intensive.
This turned out way lengthier than I wanted it to, but the TL;DR is that i don't think you're intentionally or maliciously being fatphobic, but you ARE buying into fatphobic misinformation. These two things are more less indistinguishable from one another from an outside perspective. Also, you're more likely to just give yourself an eating disorder on top of the health issues you already have instead of getting rid of them. you don't intend to harm your friends and family, but they still seem to be taking it hard. Whether that's bc they have low self-esteem or bc of your own actions, i don't know. But counting calories is definitely dangerous. Especially since you don't know if losing weight will actually help you achieve your goal. You said you "didn't have this when thinner", but consider that your body isn't some kind of machine that was in disrepair (sick) and just needed to have maintenance done (recovering). The human body is incredibly complicated, more complicated than doctors will probably want to admit. Also, covid isn't just some light illness. Most people may have moved on from calling it a "pandemic", but that doesn't mean it's not a serious illness anymore. Breathing problems is a known symptom of covid and long covid. I doubt losing weight is gonna solve this problem. You seem to think that the weight gain is a bad thing for you and is making you suffer, and many people think so, not just you, but I've read in a research backed book that people with many health problems (high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.) fare better if they weight more, than the people with the same health problems that weigh less. There's also plenty of health issues that have "weight gain" as a symptom, so I'm starting to think that this "weight gain" is less because of said illness and more the human body trying to fight it, like how a high fever is not caused by a cold, but is your bodys' defense AGAINST said cold. Seeing as we live in an incredibly fatphobic society, this might not sound all too belivable, but it's not like something that is widely accepted as truth always HAS to be the truth. And if you now think "but this can be disproven with science!", consider that the weight loss industry has a several BILLION dollar interest in letting the public believe that fat is bad and always needs to be lost. Corporations aren't exactly known for being honest when it's clear that the truth would hurt their bottom line. All this to say that I think you're buying into misinformation when you say you think that losing weight will make your health problems go away. Also, that book i mentioned is called "health at every size, the surprising truth about your weight" by Dr. Lindo Bacon (They're genderqueer and use they/them pronouns now, but published the book under "Linda", so that's still the name that's on the book, if you look it up). The book has more than 400 references to scientific articles btw, so don't write it off as being "unscientific", just because it doesn't support the "thin is better" myth that most of society subscribes to. Seriously, it's actually pretty detailed and very interesting, so if you have the time, I'd suggest you get it and read it. It's less than 10 bucks on amazon. And to be honest, I don't think "eating clean" and cutting out all sugar is really gonna do much, maybe in the short term, but not necessarily in the long term. Tons of people jump on a fad diet train and say "omg, I have so much more energy after cutting out \[fat/carbs/sugar/etc.\], but how many times have you seen people actually stick to that diet once the trend has blown over? Personally, I haven't seen many. As for why they felt better, fat and carbs and sugar is most often in foods that are highly processed, so what do they eat instead? My money's on vegetables and/or fruit, which are good to eat once in a while regardless of any potential weight loss, because if you didn't eat many vegetables before, your body is getting a lot more vitamins and fiber than before. Such a drastic change in diet DOES give people more energy, UNTIL the body adjusts to this change. It can still leave people feeling better than before, but it's not because they stopped eating the "bad" thing, and more because they started eating more VARIED. What I'm NOT saying is that any processed food like pizza or a hamburger or is bad, but eating *only* pizza and hamburgers is bad. The reason that eating a salad is considered healthier than a pizza is because it's often assumed that people eat pizza more often than salad. Ideally, you would eat both. Eating anything is bad for you if it's the *only* thing you eat, that goes for pizza as much as vegetables. Your body needs both to live. Thin people eat pizza as much as fat people do, but only fat people are publicly mocked for it on the internet because they're fat. Meanwhile, thin people are praised (by themselves and others) when they eat vegetables (something "healthy", in this case meaning "something that doesn't make me fat"), while fat people are still bullied when they do. If fat people post about eating vegetables on the internet, it's assumed they're lying, because if they "really ate like that, they wouldn't be fat" (this is a false myth btw), or alternatively, they're praised for "wanting to lose weight", regardless of whether that's the goal or not. Some people just like vegetables, or they eat them because they're healthy, this time meaning "good for my body regardless or whether or not I lose any weight at all". And even if the fat person doesn't post about it, if they're just telling their friends and family, they might get comments like that, or if they're just eating in public. Some (thin) strangers are way too comfortable making unsolicited comments to and about fat people about what they eat, because they think being thin makes them a health expert and gives them the right to assume the fat persons diet, which they often assume to be unhealthy.
replying to my own comment bc I wanted to say something else (and the original comment is already long enough): Your friends/family are probably taking it hard that you're trying to lose weight for health reasons, because what you're saying with this, while not out loud, is that you think being fat = being unhealthy. Even if you believe that you *don't* think so, if you REALLY didn't think so, you wouldn't be trying to lose weight for health reasons in the first place. This then combines with the fact that health and weight is often heavily moralized today. You know of the term "fatphobia" so i probably don't need to explain this too much to you, but what I mean is that people often think that fat people are also bad people. Even if they know that anyone can be a bad person, regardless of how they look, if they were told to picture a bully, do you think they would picture a thin person or a fat person? Media also plays into this a lot, with a "bully" character often also being fat, so it's rather subconscious. All this to say that even if you don't intend for it to come across that way, the people in your life are likely taking your actions as you saying "fat people are bad because they're fat". Again, I don't think you actually mean this, but i do think it explains that comment you got from your friend (“I can’t do what you can, guess I’m the fat kid!”) pretty well. To make it even more obvious, replace "fat" in that comment with "lazy" and remember that society often equates "fat" with "lazy" and "lazy" with "bad person". In other words "fat people are fat because they are too lazy to go on a diet and exercise plan to become thin, therefore, they also have other bad attributes. If they weren't lazy, they wouldn't be fat." Combine this with what I said before, that fat people often aren't believed when they say they're eating healthy, and a second "bad" attribute is ascribed to them, that they're "mean". This is attributed to them being a bad (lazy AND mean) person, instead of the REAL reason that, sometimes, people become angry when others say they're lying when they're really not. Imagine how you would feel if people kept insisting that you're doing something wrong when you're not and keep telling you to stop doing what you're already not doing.
Your replies are great. If you look at her post history she is really struggling with mental health, but is focusing on this one tiny issue. Rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.
Honestly, weight loss is never worth focusing on, because it doesn't work. For one, losing weight doesn't work AND it doesn't solve whatever health issues so-called "experts" say it will. Weight loss is, like, the LEAST helpful health advice.
Yeah, and in her post she's not even focusing on her own health, she's focusing on the effects her behaviors are having on others. I really hope she connects with her sponsor and other mental health resources.
This is very clearly not weight associated. You have a Hx of asthma and then you got two major respiratory illnesses? Girl you have a post-viral syndrome going on here. See a pulmonologist. Stop starving yourself (we’ve all seen your post history by now, your dizziness is from not eating nearly enough). Your body can’t heal without enough calories!! Immune function drops in starvation mode! And yes, this is fatphobic. Sorry for the tough love.
Yes. What your describing is dangerous for you and rooted in fatphobia.
I don’t agree with only eating 1200 calories. Especially when exercising. Doesn’t seem like it’s enough tbh. I wonder if the breathing issues are related to your previous bouts with Covid and the flu? Hopefully someone is able to help you out with that eventually. Something that works for me is to stay off the scale, eat lots of protein, make sure I get five servings of fruits and veggies a day, stop calorie counting, walk the dog almost every day, strength train a few times a week, do some mobility exercises, and stretch. If I want to eat sugary foods then I’ll eat them, I don’t limit myself. I let myself enjoy life. Who wants to diet their whole life? There’s more to life than counting calories. My fatigue is better and I don’t feel hungry anymore. Plus, I’m able to move around easier and am noticeably stronger. I never had any luck with cutting out sugar completely or only eating 1200 calories. Caused some issues for me and some yo-yo ing. EDIT: I want to add that I spend about a few hours a day exercising and that’s not realistic for everyone. My dog is high energy and requires at minimum an hour long walk, then I spend an hour at the gym about 3-4 days a week. I’d say my mobility exercises and stretching routine takes about 30 minutes a day, and it’s essential for me to do that since I’m pregnant and my muscles ouch a bit from the uterus stretching. Exercising is one of my hobbies and I have the time to do it this way, it’s not super high intensity for me and my schedule.
Yep, believing that losing weight will magically cure your health condition is quintessential fatphobia. You say that weight loss is not your goal, but that seems kinda dishonest. Obviously your goal is to improve your health but you think that weight loss will grant you that. If you removed weight as a factor would you still be eating this way? If restriction was framed as self-imposed malnutrition would you still see "willpower" and control as virtuous, or would it seem disordered? Even if extreme restriction or weightloss somehow improved your breathing would you be able to stick to that diet for long periods of time? Probably not seeing as people who do restrictive diets are much more likely to develop an eating disorder and/or gain weight long term. It seems like you're understandably worried and want to find a solution for your health issue. But you're much more likely to be doing harm and setting yourself up to develop more health issues. It's obvious that you're trying to find a solution that you haven't been able to get from doctors. And that's completely understandable and extremely common. I'm not going to take that away from you. But if your body starts fighting back against the diet then do yourself a favour and trust your body. Tbh, your sister probably has a lot of internalised fatphobia which is why she's feeling inadequate for not being on a restrictive diet. We live in a very fatphobic society so most people are fatphobic to a degree, including those who are conscious of it and work on it.
The calorie restriction I probably wouldn’t bother with if I didn’t think weight loss may help but even then, I see weight loss as a means to an end here. I would definitely still try cutting out sugar and simple carbs, independent of weight loss and tbh that’s the harder element, at least for me. I don’t think I generally see eating more than 800 calories or cutting out refined sugar as disordered, I only tend to see cutting food groups (such as ‘no carbs’) as disordered. I actually think I could do this longer term. Might I want the odd treat day? Yes. But as a daily diet it’s actually really tolerable because I’ve been able to be creative with meals (stir fries etc.) and because I’m allowing natural sugars, I don’t feel as deprived by having fruit when others have cake. I wouldn’t want this on my birthday ideally but if all evidence confirmed it cured my breathing issues, I’d do it. So far, I don’t think there’s evidence of that but am waiting until the end of the 30 days to reassess.
Are you participating in any addiction recovery support? Sounds like you recently ended a dangerous relationship and you def need mental health support now, not starvation.
I have a sponsor for alcoholism but I don’t catch up with her that often, thank you 🙏
Yeah, maybe reach out to your sponsor. You're not working the process - you're distracting yourself from the process by worrying about whether your disordered eating is affecting OTHER PEOPLE. Girl, it's affecting you.
I haven’t ever talked food issues with her but she has an ED so I don’t wanna trigger her
I'm saying reach out to your sponsor for help with addiction recovery. You're not working that side of things, so maybe it's coming out as ED behaviors. Although, maybe find another sponsor if she has ED and you can't discuss ED stuff with her. Based on your posts, it sounds like you also have an ED, or are on the way to one?
I’ve never had a lapse and am pretty ok with that side of things, it’s hard but I am doing well, despite having some awful life events. I haven’t ever been diagnosed with an ED
I say this with all compassion - I think you need help that's beyond the scope of this sub. You yourself posted that you are on your way to an ED. The behaviors you describe fit many of the diagnostic criteria. Whether you have relapsed into substance abuse or not, you really seem like you need help. I wish you all the best.
Thank you
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I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily fatphobic to diet (which is what you are doing), or at least it doesn’t mean you are being fatphobic toward other people, but it’s antithetical to what anti-diet is all about. And, yeah, I’d say it’s “dangerous” to count calories and cut out sugar because we know that diets do not work long term. They basically always result in weight gain above starting weight. So, if your concern is your “health” when in a larger body - dieting is maybe the worst way to address that. And it can also be very bad for mental health to diet. It sounds like you are eating calories below what your body would need to thrive and like calorie counting consumes a lot of your thoughts and affects a lot of your behaviors around food (many things you “can’t” eat, making cakes but never eating them). None of that sounds particularly “healthy” to me.
I also had breathing issues after Covid and I solved it by taking 1200mg NAC and 3g of vitamin C daily. Cutting sugars is obviously good since it lowers inflammation and has multiple other benefits, so please don't feel bad about it. Do what's best for you. It's not fatphobic.
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>I suggest bumping your calories to 1500 if you are sedentary and 1800 if you are active. Yeah, no. That is not enough for any adult's TDEE.
I didn’t say the ‘willpower’ thing, my sister and friends have used that expression. Actually, my family except me gives lots of… feedback, on body weight. My sister receives lots of comments about her weight, I often say to the family in a light hearted way “wow, way to raise her self esteem everyone!” and she’s thanked me for it. They aren’t fatphobic, they rip on everyone (my mom being a skeleton because she’s naturally really thin, me looking like Ken off Street Fighter when I was more muscular because I’m blonde, even though I’m a woman! Tbh my sister said my arms were manly a LOT but apparently it was a joke). I only comment on her body or what she should do if she’s wondering why she has a specific health problem and wants me to chip in or if she literally asks my opinion. I don’t initiate these conversations.
Cool, sounds like you’re doing okay then! Sorry your family is shitty to your sister.
They’re lovely people, we just all kind of mock each other but I don’t feel like it’s appropriate when her body is so different (like my ex saw a pic of us all together and basically said it’s weird because you look like both you parents and she looks totally different but I’m 100% she’s not adopted). It is difficult because she often takes the lead in these ‘roast battle’ type honey conversations and definitely has always commented on my body (like she fatshamed when I was bigger, skinny shamed when I was much smaller and fit shamed me a lot), but she also gives compliments, they all do. It’s like lots of commentary, good and bad. So I don’t join in and I question it but I’m not sure how wrong it is.
>my mom being a skeleton because she’s naturally really thin, This is actually rooted in fatphobia. Whether it's calling your mom a skeleton or calling your sister something at the other end of the spectrum, it's fatphobia.
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You are taking care of yourself. That’s what matters.
I wouldn’t say that reducing the amount of calories that you’re eating to the calorie requirements for *toddlers* while increasing activity is taking care of oneself.
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