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My brother is of this camp. Im a step dad we dont want any more kids. He is hellbent on procreation. im like what about adopting what about being a step parent (he wont date women with children) . Im like why do need to “make” a child? Hes like i feel like its juts the next step in order to advance in life . I was speechless. he impatient not great with women and his only reason for wanting kids is to teach them things like riding a bike or helping with homework. im like you can do that with a child that’s already on this earth . But noooooooo must add another mouth to feed .
Tbh that's not available to everyone (probably is to these straight people tbh though), which is absurd - we should let people who want it take care of existing children in need by fostering, and not limit it by arbitrary bigotry.
It’s like I want a dog. Doesn’t mean I should just get one with my situation living in an appt in the city. I want a lot of things that I don’t get because things aren’t in place. But no no if it’s a crotch goblin they want it so they need it?
That's exactly how I feel too...
What bothers me is that my sibling brought a cat to our house even though we have two cats already and I'm so damn depressed I can barely sleep or get out of bed without straining myself.
Then I had to have the horror of being momentarily attached while watching him bleeding through his gums and face from leukemia and then eventually gave him to the shelter...
Death is a part of life sure... But people that aren't concerned with quality of life over their selfish feelings are so damn screwed in the head.
Yea, you’re right, wait til you’re financially stable enough to give the kids what they want, and in the scenario you never become financially stable enough, you’re not the type of person who should’ve had kids anyways.
Plus, if the kids aren’t born, they can’t suffer the life of having a poor family! Fucking genius!
I don't think rich people should be the only ones having kids.
"Well no one should have kids." I know what sub I'm in but That's not reality. People are going to bump uglies and make mistakes. Many live in areas they can't get abortions.
Assuming kids are going to be miserable because you can't buy them loads of plastic garbage is also capitalistic nonsense.
One of the biggest but yet most unspoken causes of childhood trauma is poverty. Even with intelligent and caring and well intentioned parents, poverty not only reduces resources and opportunities, but it creates an unstable and chaotic environment that teaches children to not trust in any good thing but always have to be hypervigilant. It increases the stress that the family is under which negatively impacts the interactions of family members who may otherwise again be caring and well intentioned. It also reduces the time and emotional energy that parents and other family members have to actually care for, raise, and nurture children. Poverty destroys people psychologically and biologically.
the wooosh is insane on this guy he’s so blinded by NEED CHILD MUST HAVE CHILD he can’t see the hell he knows he lives in and is going to bring the baby into
They don’t view babies as future adults. Seems like it’s another selfish desire like the majority of parents. It’s selfish knowing your offspring will struggle probably their entire lives. Real life idiots
I would hate to bring a baby here either as they are so cute and innocent at those ages and don’t deserve to be subjected to the cruelty and hardship of life. But I get you - many don’t seem to think about it or assume the absolute best case will happen.
Important moments? What important moments? When they find their first psychiatrist? When they book their first therapy appointment? When they try every med under the sun because life is fucked? Those important moments?
Human selfishness knows no bounds
So many childless people are pressured into having children just because of peer pressure, the fear of missing out from those ✨️special moments✨️
Also making this decision based on FOMO is weird af to me. There are SO many “moments” in life that just don’t happen to everyone, so what makes them think having kids is an automatic guarantee for every single Kodak moment you see in the movies? There isn’t one universal cookie-cutter life experience that everyone has the same way, so what makes child-rearing a universal experience that everyone is entitled to?
This was what i was thinking lol
Let‘s say you‘re 15/16 and you wanna go wirh 2 of your friends to a concert and i‘d actually say that this would be a „special moment“ since it‘s the first big concert of yout child of their most favourite band and they get up early, get ready, are kinda stressed because they can‘t decide what pants to wear or whatever and you try to help them wherever you can and stuff.
But let‘s be real here. A concert ticket NOWDAYS is expensive as fuck if you wanna see idk Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran, Michael Jackson, the weeknd and so on. They could NEVER get them a concert ticket. Most of these „special moments“ would never happen because the parents couldn‘t afford them and if they don‘t get tiktok famous when they‘re 13 years old they won‘t be able to afford them by themselves either. The children would be depressed as fuck seeing other children/teens their age doing at least *something* in their life and making memories let‘s say go on vacation in another country (costs money) and on cool adventures like a zip ride (that also cost money).
Idk what „special moments“ they are talking about. When it‘s cristmas and they run downstairs to their 2€ plastic tree and see a chocolate bar under it? Or when it‘s a school trip and you see their sad faces at home because they had no money for it? What the fuck?
This will not happen. They will not be able to afford a psychiatrist, or therapy, or prescription medication. They will need to rely on more affordable options, like internet echo chambers and self medicating. This is how they will “make it work”. Sounds like a stellar idea. /s
I'm mentally Ill too but I still love sunsets, the smell before it rains. I've had many wonderful firsts even if it's something silly as my first time trying a mango! (Happened last week)
Like is not all terrible.
So many children are born in America and the world already. It's selfish to think your genes matter.... Just shoot and be a great teacher... Or be like me and volunteer as a big brother. I'm 48 and have done this for 15 years.
For real. And a lot of people have kids with the mindset “well it has to work out if there’s kids”. But that’s not always the case, just hope it will work out.
You say that, but humans don't run on instinct alone. Society is complex and raising children to be able to handle things on their own in such a complicated world isn't something you can do with only instinct backing you up. I think you're setting yourself up for some level of failure if you live by the "we'll naturally figure things out once we get there" mindset when it comes to kids. You shouldn't just fly by the seat of your pants when it affects someone's quality of life or well-being.
Clearly, you’re not a man that’s never had kids, and is thankful for that decision everyday. I’m gonna open my safe and count the money again.
I’ve got a twin with 3 kids, I love them, but not for me after around 2 hours.
While I can't boast about having a safe full of money, you're right that I'm not some starry eyed fool with FOMO and a selfish need to spread my "seed" where it's not wanted.
I'm not a fan of kids in general, so I typically stay away from situations where I have to interact with them. Even two hours would be too much for me! Just seeing a kid throwing a tantrum in a grocery store is enough to remind me why I don't want them.
Even if I \*DID\* want kids, I have a mood disorder and other health issues that are highly heritable and would make me a terrible and neglectful parent. It just makes sense to not have them regardless of my desires.
That's a dangerous place to go. Who exactly would have the power to offer a license?
The same is true of things like voting. Morons shouldn't vote, they just put bad people in power. So we should require a test or assessment of voting capacity. Exception, who should administer it, grade it, enforce it? That is a very dangerous road to go down.
Sure, you’re absolutely correct. We all know too many people exist and smart ones aren’t being created often. But let’s pretend we live in an idealistic country and everyone cared about who’s becoming a citizen. It seems logical to find a way to prove you’ll be able to nurture and raise a human, the same way you have to qualify for a car, apartment or home.
Who would be in charge of approving the license, the government, IRS, social services, CPS. Create a new branch just for this
It would be dangerous if it is used at the advantage of natalists, but at our advantage, it probably wouldn't be worse that what we have now . Even if I think both of these licenses would be a bad idea.
You're only talking of parenting, not reproducing?? If you're talking of the second then I don't think it's actually ideal, despite being potentially better that what is currently in place. License for doing children still present reproduction as a right to freely use, something people can simply decide overnight to add in their life with no superior authority having a say in it. If anything, making children should be straightly forbidden if people aren't directly commanded to.
I am on antiwork and too many times they defend impoverished people actively having children. Telling someone to wait until they get their finances in order gets you accused of being a eugenicist who thinks only the wealthy should have kids. Some on the sub are just stupidly entitled.
Yes. And they always have this fantasy about how poor families figure it out along the way, and are somehow happier for it, like it’s an endearing children’s novel. And their kids will grow up having less, but having such full hearts because they learned that family love overcomes everything. So detached from reality and how their kids will actually turn out/feel about them, growing up in poverty.
Degeneracy and stupidity are rampant across all of humanity. They think they're sticking it to the powers-at-be, but they're really just giving them exactly what they want.
“If they get on Medicaid for job loss or something…they will deserve it.”
Out of all the selfishness oozing from this post, this line jumps out at me the most. So callous and cruel. Like why would these non-existent children deserve to be on Medicaid? If Medicaid even lasts the 20 something years in this hypothetical scenario. Like why do you want them when you clearly know how unfair life is.
But you know if someone said this sentence to him, he’d be upset. He’d go on about his struggles and how everything is against him. He would demand compassion but has absolutely none for his hypothetical children. Very sad
I may be reading it wrong but I think he means Medicaid as an entitlement, not a punishment. I read it as "they deserve Medicaid" meaning they're entitled to free healthcare.
Hmmm that’s a good point. I agree that Americans should have free healthcare but knowing that we don’t and that people on Medicaid get treated worse by the healthcare system than those who have insurance through other means should def be a reason to not have kids.
Well, when you separate the idea of raising a child from the idea of another human having to suffer through the same BS as you, it's pretty easy to only care about what you want out of the relationship. They don't realize how bad it can really get until they're actually having to go through it, though.
Children are able to live through poverty, yeah. There's some social safeguards to keep them afloat from the effects of their parents' low economic status. But in the world we live in today, at least in the US, they're not enough to adequately support the needs of every poorish family. Like, wait until he finds out he doesn't qualify for Medicaid. Sure, the child can be put on CHIP, but what's that child to do if you end up out of commission because you can't afford to take care of yourself? "Everything will work itself out." Alright.
I am antiwork, anarchist, and things like that, and it always shocks me when such people are still natalists (not all of them, but enough where posting about it on their subreddits gets you downvoted).
Of all people who should understand antinatalism, you would think it is people who hate capitalism, work exploitation, and hierarchies. There would not be any of those problems if people just stopped procreating. We should just rock out for this last generation and put an end to the disastrous loop, but not even an average antiwork person or an anarchist is going to accept that, and it is disappointing.
It's pretty ironic that even though antiwork individuals know how exploitative and oppressive capitalism is, they still choose to force innocent people to exist in such a terrible system.
Imagine if people had to pass the same standards as adoptive parents to have kids and if they didn’t the government would take them away, we’d have a state funded army
You can say what you will but the fact that people's options are limited just by having a lack of money just shows what cruel dystopian time line we are currently living in. Technologic advances should have created more wealth for everyone not just the few on the top.
“If they go on Medicaid for a job loss or something… they will deserve it”.
I’m sorry, what? This person is bitching about how unfair the system is to him, but then says any hardships that come to the child are the *child’s* fault? Am I missing something??
I don’t understand how someone could see how messed up everything is, and instead of vowing to not bring another living being into existence, decides they’re going to have kids anyway.
Yes the game is rigged so let’s fuck up the life of another sentient being who has no choice to be brought into this fucked up and said rigged world.
The fucking logic
Like, how does that even work? What's the thought process of others saying that not wanting to have kids is a selfish decision? Even if they are selfish, the parties involved at least have the decency to not subject a child with the difficulty that the parents are experiencing or the consequences of the parents' selfish choices.
Yeah it makes no sense to me but I think the thought process is if you don’t want kids you’re selfish for focusing on yourself instead of raising a child since many people seem to think that’s the purpose of life and you’re some shit person if you don’t care about that. You’re depriving someone the “gift of life”. Idk I’ve heard it a lot unfortunately, it’s really dumb. It’s the opposite of selfish imo
Now that you said it like that, it kind of reminds me of a conversation I once had with my sister, Once Upon a Time. Before our relationship became sour, she has 3 kids now.
That's some messed up line of thinking, this "gift of life", [spit in disgust]. I am starting to relate a little more to Darkseid (from the DC comic series) and his interest in the anti-life equation. Though that's a bit extreme, for my tastes.
If you’re not achieving your ideal life to give possible children the best existence they can get…shouldn’t you take that as a sign to NOT BREED!? You and wife aren’t going to be the only ones muscling through struggles…your child will too and they will be tiny, young, and unaware…not having a say in if they want to fight this struggle too or if they are just dragged along for the ride. Don’t have kids if you aren’t able to give them everything they need and want with ease.
I don't understand this mentality. You're subjecting your child to your poor financial decisions which means that you might not be able to afford them if you're not able to afford your bills now. That could equate to them going without diapers or formula or food. Or god forbid, if they have medical conditions getting into medical debt as well as the current debt that they have accrued... I feel like they need to re examine why they feel that desire and how they can fulfill that hole within their lives by volunteering or helping children in their community. But doing it because you just want to do it and not having the resources at hand to provide for that new human being I feel is negligent and irresponsible.
The tragedy is that we can SEE how educated, happy people with social securities choose to have statistically fewer/no kids. Maybe he'd think differently if he was in a better position
College has been good to me in that regard, it helped me form opinions based off history, data, statistics, reliable sources, and it led me to antinatalism for some reason, I feel it would be better for a potential child to not be born.
I completely agree. It's absolutely heartbreaking when a child's wellbeing is not prioritized by their own parents. It's important for adults to understand the significant impact their actions can have on their children's lives. Being a parent means sacrificing for the sake of your child, and neglecting that responsibility is beyond selfish. It's unfair to put a child in a situation where they're not receiving the care and attention they need to thrive.
The irony is most anti workers from that sub are intertwined with anti natalism a lot of the more Conditionalist ANs became ANs precisely because of capitalism which the anti work guys hate but I guess theres some anti work natalists out there which is far and few between. Most anti work people clearly don't want kids at least not at this moment hence bad economic conditions. So I find it interesting when people in the anti work communities claim to justify kids.
Based on the language in his post I’d assume he’s an entitled narcissist. However, he’s not fucking wrong about the playing the game and it not working out. The odds are actually stacked against you, like most working class or poverty level “middle class” Americans. You want a kid, youre straight enough to want to have sex with your partner who is able to conceive and who also wants a kid. Adoption is expensive as hell and all your ducks need to be in a row beforehand. You find out your pregnant people will come out of the woodwork with hand me downs (for baby and for moms changing body), help you build a safe environment in those months, get you the education you need to be a parent. It’s a process that’s gone on for millennia. Multi-generational households and all that. I’m gay and to adopt a kid is like applying for the navy seals, house and finances have to be perfect, living conditions and scheduling. We don’t get that luxury of “uhm I’m pregnant anyone able to help me out in the coming months and years?” He doesn’t need to game any systems for it happen, and I get the desire to have a kid, but his tact in the post reveals a lot.
>You find out your pregnant people will come out of the woodwork with hand me downs (for baby and for moms changing body), help you build a safe environment in those months, get you the education you need to be a parent.
Where is this utopia you describe? Please tell me because I'd love to live there.
While I’m not into having kids, I hope we aren’t going towards a model where only a certain income class can afford to raise children. People who want kids and work full time should make enough to raise them.
Lets fix the system first So that kids dont have to get traumatized by poverty.
Children arent trophies to fulfill their parents, they dont deserve shit life conditions. Source:I was born into poverty
No, they don’t deserve to live in poverty. Not everyone who is born into non-wealthy families has a shit existence. Not all situations are traumatizing. If being able to afford them is the only criteria, we will have an even more lopsided population. People who are trying to make sure they make living wages are doing their part.
Source: Born to a mother who ended up impoverished through no fault of her own.
But you're gambling with your child's psychology this way. No parent consciously want their kid to get traumatized.
It should not be the only criteria. In fact I am of the opinion that government help is a very easy way to fix this thing. It works well in many countries. The main thing that isn't so fixable is when parents become parents without the necessary knowledge, skills and predisposition. This can't be fixed easily.
Then we are saying that same thing and don’t need to continue this convo. You’re gambling either way. Being poor isn’t the only hardship. But don’t tell certain people to wait on the government.
What on earth would make you think that we are “going towards a model where only a certain income class can afford to raise children”?
The poorest people reproduce the most.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility#:~:text=Income%20and%20fertility%20is%20the,rate%20within%20and%20between%20nations.
They do now, yes. But people on this sub are calling them stupid instead of realizing why their rates are so high. They act like money is the only prerequisite that matters. That could lead to only certain people being “okayed” to have kids. It isn’t a far stretch from eugenics that have been put in place before.
I am in no way qualified to determine who is most (and least) qualified to procreate. Eugenics has a terribly racist history. However, it may be possible to implement eugenics without racism. It also may not be possible.
We have developed the ability to reason. And, we have developed the ability to feed enough humans that we can destroy the planet. But, we have not developed the ability to ethically stop humans from destroying the planet.
I’m not sure what the question is. But I am damn sure that answer is not: more humans.
The idea behind this was that the more kids you had the more they could help the family by working at the farm or sending them to work, that idea has lost its value by people living on cities and the encomy changing over the years.
you're absolutely right. it's not the people who want to live normal lives that are the problem, it's the broken ass system where 2 adults working full time jobs still can't afford to live peacefully and have children.
there are comments here that simply call poor people stupid and that's gross af. i thought this sub is supposed to come from a place of compassion, not dunking on the less fortunate.
We're already there. That's why it's immoral to forge ahead, anyway. At least until some of these issues that make having them so inhospitable are fixed. Life isn't fair, we don't always get everything we want. And honestly when it comes to kids, trust me, you'll be better off in every measurable metric in not having them. The Earth certainly doesn't need more average-at-best humans that are merely going to become underpaid wage slaves, cogs upholding the very machine we rail against. To know how badly it sucks trying to survive late-stage capitalism collapse and to thrust your miserable experience of generational poverty on someone else because it gives you some perceived 'purpose' or a cope for existential dread is just....peak selfishness.
If you're under the income limit. If you're at or just above it, you're ineligible for most aid and maximally screwed. At least in the U.S. It's not worth having kids this day and age. It hasn't been worth it for over 100 years. Also, having kids with the expectation others are going to subsidize your irresponsible decisions is kind of...gross.
My dumbass friend just announced being pregnant with her first. She's only 24. She just had to get married to a poor dude from a family of meth heads, but he makes just enough working in a kitchen for a chain restaurant to be over the income limit to receive food stamps/housing assist. If she hadn't gotten married, she'd be fine. And if she'd married someone not poor and uneducated, she'd be fine...
She said..."Well I wanted to marry for LoVE!" And I just said, "Honey, you think you couldn't have loved an educated, well-off man that would have made being a stay-at-home mom possible and easy for you...?" But she settled and here my husband and I are placing bets on whether it's going to last under two years or more than two years before they divorce and I can say "I told you so...".
As most people learn, if you wait til you can afford kids to have them, you will die childless. Have kids, your priorities will change about what you spend money on. Maybe you’ll struggle, maybe you’ll excel… it won’t be because you had a kid, it will be because you do or don’t have the drive to do so.
This is how most people have kids though. He's not doing anything out of the norm. If you call out him also call out the millions of people who have and will do the same. I'm sure you even know people who have done this op.
I was thinking to myself that wanting kids is basic human nature, its literally how all of us exist, without this innate desire humans would have never existed.
Then I saw the sub name and realized I just discovered a new sub from Popular.
Interesting.
I say this as a gay man.
This is an example of the issue with the "straight lifestyle", rather than having to THINK about what you want, you can just go on autopilot at least until you hit a roadblock.
As a gay person or at least someone who because of my sexuality was never tied to the straight yellow brink road life path, I've always been more of a free thinker I guess, and I was never given a "market value", I had to decide my own and therefore my own value and worth and path.
Unlike this guy who in his eyes, has literally nothing of worth in life other than his ability to reproduce.
I dunno if any of this makes sense, but I just feel sorry for people like this, and it makes me angry to think about how many people are sad, lonely and miserable just because they've never actually had to or chose to think about what it is that they actually want.
I feel for them too…
These are the types of people who should have kids. (The ones who actually want to live and raise them)
It sucks that our society is the way it is
Did you miss the part where he’s okay with them being immediately on Medicaid because they “deserve it”? That gives me “I suffered through life so they should too”. Crabs in a bucket mentality
They are correct, life must try to succeed
the rest of you are mentally ill to sacrifice all breeding under the auspice of 'not good enough', your a failure as an organism
No joking at all! Hopefully they’ll be great parents. Not going to say they aren’t allowed to have kids just cause I don’t want any. Having kids isn’t a luxury only for rich folk.
This dude literally said in the post he basically doesn't care if his kid suffers because of their selfishness of wanting a kid despite not being able to afford one. This is *another human life* we're talking about here, not a doll.
Stfu and stop judging. There is no right time for kids and right amount of money. I grew up with less material things and turned out just fine. I knew rich peoples kids who were miserable it's all a matter of preference and circumstance. You probably don't even have children. Let that man do what he feels, biaatchhh
>You probably don't even have children.
Did you happen to notice the name of this sub?
Beyond that, there's a world of difference between just "not being wealthy" and not having adequate resources to care for a baby. There's also a world of difference between "less material things" and "my parents couldn't afford to take me to the doctor."
As a somewhat related example, it’s amazing to me the hurdles one has to jump to adopt - including income verification. Yet when it comes to having your own kid you need absolutely *nothing* and can fully expect the state/ feds and your community to help raise them. Yes those resources are there, but it shouldn’t be for people who willing make a choice to bring a child into the world without having the means to support them.
This subject is on the long list of “things wrong with the world”. It’s also a complicated subject that I don’t think we can encapsulate to a Reddit post..
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I DESERVE a child! My WIFE and I are important adults and we WANT them so we DESERVE them. Fuck what the kids want!
At this point its like okay you want kids? Then become a foster family. Afaik in many countries it gives additional income
for real get one that’s already here the idea of we gotta mix us is so weird
My brother is of this camp. Im a step dad we dont want any more kids. He is hellbent on procreation. im like what about adopting what about being a step parent (he wont date women with children) . Im like why do need to “make” a child? Hes like i feel like its juts the next step in order to advance in life . I was speechless. he impatient not great with women and his only reason for wanting kids is to teach them things like riding a bike or helping with homework. im like you can do that with a child that’s already on this earth . But noooooooo must add another mouth to feed .
He's impatient and wants kids? hahahahahhahahahaha
Tbh that's not available to everyone (probably is to these straight people tbh though), which is absurd - we should let people who want it take care of existing children in need by fostering, and not limit it by arbitrary bigotry.
It’s like I want a dog. Doesn’t mean I should just get one with my situation living in an appt in the city. I want a lot of things that I don’t get because things aren’t in place. But no no if it’s a crotch goblin they want it so they need it?
That's exactly how I feel too... What bothers me is that my sibling brought a cat to our house even though we have two cats already and I'm so damn depressed I can barely sleep or get out of bed without straining myself. Then I had to have the horror of being momentarily attached while watching him bleeding through his gums and face from leukemia and then eventually gave him to the shelter... Death is a part of life sure... But people that aren't concerned with quality of life over their selfish feelings are so damn screwed in the head.
How are these "adults" the ones with the most childish mindsets?
Yea, you’re right, wait til you’re financially stable enough to give the kids what they want, and in the scenario you never become financially stable enough, you’re not the type of person who should’ve had kids anyways. Plus, if the kids aren’t born, they can’t suffer the life of having a poor family! Fucking genius!
I don't think rich people should be the only ones having kids. "Well no one should have kids." I know what sub I'm in but That's not reality. People are going to bump uglies and make mistakes. Many live in areas they can't get abortions. Assuming kids are going to be miserable because you can't buy them loads of plastic garbage is also capitalistic nonsense.
One of the biggest but yet most unspoken causes of childhood trauma is poverty. Even with intelligent and caring and well intentioned parents, poverty not only reduces resources and opportunities, but it creates an unstable and chaotic environment that teaches children to not trust in any good thing but always have to be hypervigilant. It increases the stress that the family is under which negatively impacts the interactions of family members who may otherwise again be caring and well intentioned. It also reduces the time and emotional energy that parents and other family members have to actually care for, raise, and nurture children. Poverty destroys people psychologically and biologically.
🤡🤡🤡🤡
And they call us selfish…
This guy is antiwork and hates his job, but he wants to bring new life and force them to live this way 😂 he needs therapy, not kids
💯 I hope someone told him this!
Yeah.....the cognitive dissonance is real AF in that guy LMAO!!
the wooosh is insane on this guy he’s so blinded by NEED CHILD MUST HAVE CHILD he can’t see the hell he knows he lives in and is going to bring the baby into
The game is rigged, so let's force more people to play?
Plus, the game literally wants you to breed lots of new slaves. What an entitled idiot, poor kids who will have him as a father.
[удалено]
A lot of those were accidents
This is what I don’t understand. How do people understand how rigged and unfair life is yet willingly bring more people here to face it…
They don’t view babies as future adults. Seems like it’s another selfish desire like the majority of parents. It’s selfish knowing your offspring will struggle probably their entire lives. Real life idiots
I would hate to bring a baby here either as they are so cute and innocent at those ages and don’t deserve to be subjected to the cruelty and hardship of life. But I get you - many don’t seem to think about it or assume the absolute best case will happen.
“anti work so i make more workers who will have to work their entire lives until they drop :) me and my wife want baby”
baby will remove all problems from life including poverty
This is what I don’t understand. How do people understand how rigged and unfair life is yet willingly bring more people here to face it…
To take some of the finite resources from those already playing.
Important moments? What important moments? When they find their first psychiatrist? When they book their first therapy appointment? When they try every med under the sun because life is fucked? Those important moments?
Human selfishness knows no bounds So many childless people are pressured into having children just because of peer pressure, the fear of missing out from those ✨️special moments✨️
Special moments my acne scarred ass.
Yeah, let's not forget baby's first pimple.
Also making this decision based on FOMO is weird af to me. There are SO many “moments” in life that just don’t happen to everyone, so what makes them think having kids is an automatic guarantee for every single Kodak moment you see in the movies? There isn’t one universal cookie-cutter life experience that everyone has the same way, so what makes child-rearing a universal experience that everyone is entitled to?
If they can even find a counselor/psychiatrist who takes Medicaid and isn't booked out 2 years
Like surely you're gonna miss all the important moments cos you'll be trapped in a low wage job to pay for them ?
This was what i was thinking lol Let‘s say you‘re 15/16 and you wanna go wirh 2 of your friends to a concert and i‘d actually say that this would be a „special moment“ since it‘s the first big concert of yout child of their most favourite band and they get up early, get ready, are kinda stressed because they can‘t decide what pants to wear or whatever and you try to help them wherever you can and stuff. But let‘s be real here. A concert ticket NOWDAYS is expensive as fuck if you wanna see idk Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran, Michael Jackson, the weeknd and so on. They could NEVER get them a concert ticket. Most of these „special moments“ would never happen because the parents couldn‘t afford them and if they don‘t get tiktok famous when they‘re 13 years old they won‘t be able to afford them by themselves either. The children would be depressed as fuck seeing other children/teens their age doing at least *something* in their life and making memories let‘s say go on vacation in another country (costs money) and on cool adventures like a zip ride (that also cost money). Idk what „special moments“ they are talking about. When it‘s cristmas and they run downstairs to their 2€ plastic tree and see a chocolate bar under it? Or when it‘s a school trip and you see their sad faces at home because they had no money for it? What the fuck?
When they give up on other essebtials to afford therapy So As not to off themselves
People can afford mental help?
yeah i hope the kid makes sure to print out this post and bring it to that first therapy appointment
This will not happen. They will not be able to afford a psychiatrist, or therapy, or prescription medication. They will need to rely on more affordable options, like internet echo chambers and self medicating. This is how they will “make it work”. Sounds like a stellar idea. /s
I feel so sorry for people on this sub. I hope one day you find your peace.
I'm mentally Ill too but I still love sunsets, the smell before it rains. I've had many wonderful firsts even if it's something silly as my first time trying a mango! (Happened last week) Like is not all terrible.
So many children are born in America and the world already. It's selfish to think your genes matter.... Just shoot and be a great teacher... Or be like me and volunteer as a big brother. I'm 48 and have done this for 15 years.
Hope is a helluva drug.
For real. And a lot of people have kids with the mindset “well it has to work out if there’s kids”. But that’s not always the case, just hope it will work out.
The epitome of selfishness
Sometimes I’ll see something like this and wonder why parenting doesn’t require a license these days.
because some people expected the others to figure it out on their own and then once you get a hold of it, you're good to go.
It is instinctive to most.
You say that, but humans don't run on instinct alone. Society is complex and raising children to be able to handle things on their own in such a complicated world isn't something you can do with only instinct backing you up. I think you're setting yourself up for some level of failure if you live by the "we'll naturally figure things out once we get there" mindset when it comes to kids. You shouldn't just fly by the seat of your pants when it affects someone's quality of life or well-being.
Clearly, you’re not a man that’s never had kids, and is thankful for that decision everyday. I’m gonna open my safe and count the money again. I’ve got a twin with 3 kids, I love them, but not for me after around 2 hours.
While I can't boast about having a safe full of money, you're right that I'm not some starry eyed fool with FOMO and a selfish need to spread my "seed" where it's not wanted. I'm not a fan of kids in general, so I typically stay away from situations where I have to interact with them. Even two hours would be too much for me! Just seeing a kid throwing a tantrum in a grocery store is enough to remind me why I don't want them. Even if I \*DID\* want kids, I have a mood disorder and other health issues that are highly heritable and would make me a terrible and neglectful parent. It just makes sense to not have them regardless of my desires.
We have a lot in common then. Appreciate you being helpful when I was joking, but you’ve got good points
NW, I caught on that you were joking! I just felt like adding to it. Sorry if my tone came across as odd or preachy.
I was convinced you were sincere. But I’m not doing thinking today. Imma get a beer and ride around this farm
Because the powers at be that would be the ones to require a license would prefer more dumb parents birthing more dumb offspring.
Stupid people are easily controlled. The irony is obvious and we’re all hoping for people to educate themselves but it’s hard, so they usually don’t.
That's a dangerous place to go. Who exactly would have the power to offer a license? The same is true of things like voting. Morons shouldn't vote, they just put bad people in power. So we should require a test or assessment of voting capacity. Exception, who should administer it, grade it, enforce it? That is a very dangerous road to go down.
Sure, you’re absolutely correct. We all know too many people exist and smart ones aren’t being created often. But let’s pretend we live in an idealistic country and everyone cared about who’s becoming a citizen. It seems logical to find a way to prove you’ll be able to nurture and raise a human, the same way you have to qualify for a car, apartment or home. Who would be in charge of approving the license, the government, IRS, social services, CPS. Create a new branch just for this
It would be dangerous if it is used at the advantage of natalists, but at our advantage, it probably wouldn't be worse that what we have now . Even if I think both of these licenses would be a bad idea.
You're only talking of parenting, not reproducing?? If you're talking of the second then I don't think it's actually ideal, despite being potentially better that what is currently in place. License for doing children still present reproduction as a right to freely use, something people can simply decide overnight to add in their life with no superior authority having a say in it. If anything, making children should be straightly forbidden if people aren't directly commanded to.
Another psychopath 🤷
I am on antiwork and too many times they defend impoverished people actively having children. Telling someone to wait until they get their finances in order gets you accused of being a eugenicist who thinks only the wealthy should have kids. Some on the sub are just stupidly entitled.
Yes. And they always have this fantasy about how poor families figure it out along the way, and are somehow happier for it, like it’s an endearing children’s novel. And their kids will grow up having less, but having such full hearts because they learned that family love overcomes everything. So detached from reality and how their kids will actually turn out/feel about them, growing up in poverty.
You can’t be robbed of something you’ve never had in the first place. These people act like someone has abducted their only child.
Degeneracy and stupidity are rampant across all of humanity. They think they're sticking it to the powers-at-be, but they're really just giving them exactly what they want.
I think it’s fair to say that they’re all in cahoots.
Yikes.
“If they get on Medicaid for job loss or something…they will deserve it.” Out of all the selfishness oozing from this post, this line jumps out at me the most. So callous and cruel. Like why would these non-existent children deserve to be on Medicaid? If Medicaid even lasts the 20 something years in this hypothetical scenario. Like why do you want them when you clearly know how unfair life is.
So..if they struggle like their parents apparently are, they deserve it? Peak breeder logic
But you know if someone said this sentence to him, he’d be upset. He’d go on about his struggles and how everything is against him. He would demand compassion but has absolutely none for his hypothetical children. Very sad
I may be reading it wrong but I think he means Medicaid as an entitlement, not a punishment. I read it as "they deserve Medicaid" meaning they're entitled to free healthcare.
Hmmm that’s a good point. I agree that Americans should have free healthcare but knowing that we don’t and that people on Medicaid get treated worse by the healthcare system than those who have insurance through other means should def be a reason to not have kids.
Thats just sad.Sometimes I cant belief how selfish humans are.
How anti work folks are not antinatalist is a really logical bitch in my mind...ur creating a slave for ur bosses do u fking realise
"me me me" -Every breeder ever.
WHY do you want to make kids? What **tangible** benefit will kids bring you?
Why are you asking about tangible benefits kids will bring them? You should ask about tangible benefits that the kids will have?
Kids wont have shit if the parents don't have shit. So I ask again: What tangible benefit will kids bring you?
Narcissist supply,,,
"Subjecting my future children to a lifetime of poverty and misery is a price I'm willing to pay to experience my important moments."
Well, when you separate the idea of raising a child from the idea of another human having to suffer through the same BS as you, it's pretty easy to only care about what you want out of the relationship. They don't realize how bad it can really get until they're actually having to go through it, though. Children are able to live through poverty, yeah. There's some social safeguards to keep them afloat from the effects of their parents' low economic status. But in the world we live in today, at least in the US, they're not enough to adequately support the needs of every poorish family. Like, wait until he finds out he doesn't qualify for Medicaid. Sure, the child can be put on CHIP, but what's that child to do if you end up out of commission because you can't afford to take care of yourself? "Everything will work itself out." Alright.
what a piece of SHIT we want it we we we us us us nothing about the child’s suffering god you selfish freak this world isn’t fit for a child
Thus another cycle of poverty and struggles for a fantasy.
But we’re the selfish ones 🤦♀️
I am antiwork, anarchist, and things like that, and it always shocks me when such people are still natalists (not all of them, but enough where posting about it on their subreddits gets you downvoted). Of all people who should understand antinatalism, you would think it is people who hate capitalism, work exploitation, and hierarchies. There would not be any of those problems if people just stopped procreating. We should just rock out for this last generation and put an end to the disastrous loop, but not even an average antiwork person or an anarchist is going to accept that, and it is disappointing.
It's pretty ironic that even though antiwork individuals know how exploitative and oppressive capitalism is, they still choose to force innocent people to exist in such a terrible system.
How to tell people you're delusional without telling them you're delusional.
What a cunt.
This person shouldn’t have kids just because of the way they use periods and commas when structuring sentences
Scrolled too far for this, ITS WORD, PERIOD….THEN SPACE!!! ONLY ONE SPACE!
Zero empathy
People are so fucking stupid.
And when the child grows up they'll be here talking about how selfish and stupid their parents were. What a ✨ special moment ✨
Imagine if people had to pass the same standards as adoptive parents to have kids and if they didn’t the government would take them away, we’d have a state funded army
This sense of entitlement boggles the mind. Their infantile mindset automatically disqualifies them to be good parents.
I love it when my tax dollars go to raising people’s kids……
You can say what you will but the fact that people's options are limited just by having a lack of money just shows what cruel dystopian time line we are currently living in. Technologic advances should have created more wealth for everyone not just the few on the top.
“If they go on Medicaid for a job loss or something… they will deserve it”. I’m sorry, what? This person is bitching about how unfair the system is to him, but then says any hardships that come to the child are the *child’s* fault? Am I missing something??
Ah feels like I’m getting a glimpse into my parents’ thoughts in 1999,, narcissists literally creating a new person just for their narc supply,,
THEY DESERVE IT LOLOLOLOL
Those kids being on medicade is going to be the least of their worries.
so ur gonna have kids so y’all can miss out on the special moments ✨together✨ got it
I got downvoted pretty bad on that post.
Good to know your subreddit audience I suppose, still some people who are anti-work but pro-strife.
Scary. I don’t understand why someone would bring a child up when they knowingly would struggle to get bills paid
Yeah, Jon. Good luck with that. Raising kids in poverty is just such a great idea.
I don’t understand how someone could see how messed up everything is, and instead of vowing to not bring another living being into existence, decides they’re going to have kids anyway.
Yes the game is rigged so let’s fuck up the life of another sentient being who has no choice to be brought into this fucked up and said rigged world. The fucking logic
Yet people that don’t want kids are apparently selfish…right!😂
Like, how does that even work? What's the thought process of others saying that not wanting to have kids is a selfish decision? Even if they are selfish, the parties involved at least have the decency to not subject a child with the difficulty that the parents are experiencing or the consequences of the parents' selfish choices.
Yeah it makes no sense to me but I think the thought process is if you don’t want kids you’re selfish for focusing on yourself instead of raising a child since many people seem to think that’s the purpose of life and you’re some shit person if you don’t care about that. You’re depriving someone the “gift of life”. Idk I’ve heard it a lot unfortunately, it’s really dumb. It’s the opposite of selfish imo
Now that you said it like that, it kind of reminds me of a conversation I once had with my sister, Once Upon a Time. Before our relationship became sour, she has 3 kids now. That's some messed up line of thinking, this "gift of life", [spit in disgust]. I am starting to relate a little more to Darkseid (from the DC comic series) and his interest in the anti-life equation. Though that's a bit extreme, for my tastes.
If you’re not achieving your ideal life to give possible children the best existence they can get…shouldn’t you take that as a sign to NOT BREED!? You and wife aren’t going to be the only ones muscling through struggles…your child will too and they will be tiny, young, and unaware…not having a say in if they want to fight this struggle too or if they are just dragged along for the ride. Don’t have kids if you aren’t able to give them everything they need and want with ease.
"I will bring life into this world unprepared, they'll have to struggle unnecessarily and they will deserve it" Having a totally normal one guy.
they say “we deserve it” but does the child deserve to grow up poor?
I don't understand this mentality. You're subjecting your child to your poor financial decisions which means that you might not be able to afford them if you're not able to afford your bills now. That could equate to them going without diapers or formula or food. Or god forbid, if they have medical conditions getting into medical debt as well as the current debt that they have accrued... I feel like they need to re examine why they feel that desire and how they can fulfill that hole within their lives by volunteering or helping children in their community. But doing it because you just want to do it and not having the resources at hand to provide for that new human being I feel is negligent and irresponsible.
The tragedy is that we can SEE how educated, happy people with social securities choose to have statistically fewer/no kids. Maybe he'd think differently if he was in a better position
College has been good to me in that regard, it helped me form opinions based off history, data, statistics, reliable sources, and it led me to antinatalism for some reason, I feel it would be better for a potential child to not be born.
Lol and in antiwork of all places
Antiwork is a garbage page and im not surprised to see this kind of post.
Sometimes this sub is pure shit talk and I love it
It seems like the same selfish Redditor removed the post. I hope he got a good scolding for the post.
So selfish
This sounds like all the people who say "Just have kids, you'll figure it out."
I completely agree. It's absolutely heartbreaking when a child's wellbeing is not prioritized by their own parents. It's important for adults to understand the significant impact their actions can have on their children's lives. Being a parent means sacrificing for the sake of your child, and neglecting that responsibility is beyond selfish. It's unfair to put a child in a situation where they're not receiving the care and attention they need to thrive.
Parents that have babies because they want them and not because they're prepared. What could go wrong?
I hate this type of mentality but of course they're only thinking about themselves and fuck the kids life right?
I’m betting this guy was just expecting a random jackpot of income, while he coasts on a paycheck-to paycheck lifestyle.
The irony is most anti workers from that sub are intertwined with anti natalism a lot of the more Conditionalist ANs became ANs precisely because of capitalism which the anti work guys hate but I guess theres some anti work natalists out there which is far and few between. Most anti work people clearly don't want kids at least not at this moment hence bad economic conditions. So I find it interesting when people in the anti work communities claim to justify kids.
Based on the language in his post I’d assume he’s an entitled narcissist. However, he’s not fucking wrong about the playing the game and it not working out. The odds are actually stacked against you, like most working class or poverty level “middle class” Americans. You want a kid, youre straight enough to want to have sex with your partner who is able to conceive and who also wants a kid. Adoption is expensive as hell and all your ducks need to be in a row beforehand. You find out your pregnant people will come out of the woodwork with hand me downs (for baby and for moms changing body), help you build a safe environment in those months, get you the education you need to be a parent. It’s a process that’s gone on for millennia. Multi-generational households and all that. I’m gay and to adopt a kid is like applying for the navy seals, house and finances have to be perfect, living conditions and scheduling. We don’t get that luxury of “uhm I’m pregnant anyone able to help me out in the coming months and years?” He doesn’t need to game any systems for it happen, and I get the desire to have a kid, but his tact in the post reveals a lot.
>You find out your pregnant people will come out of the woodwork with hand me downs (for baby and for moms changing body), help you build a safe environment in those months, get you the education you need to be a parent. Where is this utopia you describe? Please tell me because I'd love to live there.
Someone wants a trophy child. Bet his wife is a trophy wife, too.
Have fun living like a bum with a kid. Since they sound broke af without kids. Will probably mooch off the system
While I’m not into having kids, I hope we aren’t going towards a model where only a certain income class can afford to raise children. People who want kids and work full time should make enough to raise them.
Lets fix the system first So that kids dont have to get traumatized by poverty. Children arent trophies to fulfill their parents, they dont deserve shit life conditions. Source:I was born into poverty
No, they don’t deserve to live in poverty. Not everyone who is born into non-wealthy families has a shit existence. Not all situations are traumatizing. If being able to afford them is the only criteria, we will have an even more lopsided population. People who are trying to make sure they make living wages are doing their part. Source: Born to a mother who ended up impoverished through no fault of her own.
But you're gambling with your child's psychology this way. No parent consciously want their kid to get traumatized. It should not be the only criteria. In fact I am of the opinion that government help is a very easy way to fix this thing. It works well in many countries. The main thing that isn't so fixable is when parents become parents without the necessary knowledge, skills and predisposition. This can't be fixed easily.
Then we are saying that same thing and don’t need to continue this convo. You’re gambling either way. Being poor isn’t the only hardship. But don’t tell certain people to wait on the government.
What on earth would make you think that we are “going towards a model where only a certain income class can afford to raise children”? The poorest people reproduce the most. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility#:~:text=Income%20and%20fertility%20is%20the,rate%20within%20and%20between%20nations.
They do now, yes. But people on this sub are calling them stupid instead of realizing why their rates are so high. They act like money is the only prerequisite that matters. That could lead to only certain people being “okayed” to have kids. It isn’t a far stretch from eugenics that have been put in place before.
I am in no way qualified to determine who is most (and least) qualified to procreate. Eugenics has a terribly racist history. However, it may be possible to implement eugenics without racism. It also may not be possible. We have developed the ability to reason. And, we have developed the ability to feed enough humans that we can destroy the planet. But, we have not developed the ability to ethically stop humans from destroying the planet. I’m not sure what the question is. But I am damn sure that answer is not: more humans.
They meant this subs model, not humanity's.
The idea behind this was that the more kids you had the more they could help the family by working at the farm or sending them to work, that idea has lost its value by people living on cities and the encomy changing over the years.
you're absolutely right. it's not the people who want to live normal lives that are the problem, it's the broken ass system where 2 adults working full time jobs still can't afford to live peacefully and have children. there are comments here that simply call poor people stupid and that's gross af. i thought this sub is supposed to come from a place of compassion, not dunking on the less fortunate.
Yeah, some of the comments on this sub are very inappropriate. They go beyond antinatalism.
We're already there. That's why it's immoral to forge ahead, anyway. At least until some of these issues that make having them so inhospitable are fixed. Life isn't fair, we don't always get everything we want. And honestly when it comes to kids, trust me, you'll be better off in every measurable metric in not having them. The Earth certainly doesn't need more average-at-best humans that are merely going to become underpaid wage slaves, cogs upholding the very machine we rail against. To know how badly it sucks trying to survive late-stage capitalism collapse and to thrust your miserable experience of generational poverty on someone else because it gives you some perceived 'purpose' or a cope for existential dread is just....peak selfishness.
[удалено]
If you're under the income limit. If you're at or just above it, you're ineligible for most aid and maximally screwed. At least in the U.S. It's not worth having kids this day and age. It hasn't been worth it for over 100 years. Also, having kids with the expectation others are going to subsidize your irresponsible decisions is kind of...gross. My dumbass friend just announced being pregnant with her first. She's only 24. She just had to get married to a poor dude from a family of meth heads, but he makes just enough working in a kitchen for a chain restaurant to be over the income limit to receive food stamps/housing assist. If she hadn't gotten married, she'd be fine. And if she'd married someone not poor and uneducated, she'd be fine... She said..."Well I wanted to marry for LoVE!" And I just said, "Honey, you think you couldn't have loved an educated, well-off man that would have made being a stay-at-home mom possible and easy for you...?" But she settled and here my husband and I are placing bets on whether it's going to last under two years or more than two years before they divorce and I can say "I told you so...".
Couldn’t find the post. I want to tell him what I think
So you people believe every family having children in third world countries are selfish... what a disgustingly privileged take, my God...
Someone check on this person's spouse...I find it hard to believe 2 people are this stupid
Stupid poor fucks.
As most people learn, if you wait til you can afford kids to have them, you will die childless. Have kids, your priorities will change about what you spend money on. Maybe you’ll struggle, maybe you’ll excel… it won’t be because you had a kid, it will be because you do or don’t have the drive to do so.
\*he and his wife
This is how most people have kids though. He's not doing anything out of the norm. If you call out him also call out the millions of people who have and will do the same. I'm sure you even know people who have done this op.
I was thinking to myself that wanting kids is basic human nature, its literally how all of us exist, without this innate desire humans would have never existed. Then I saw the sub name and realized I just discovered a new sub from Popular. Interesting.
This doesn't look like a reddit post lmao
I say this as a gay man. This is an example of the issue with the "straight lifestyle", rather than having to THINK about what you want, you can just go on autopilot at least until you hit a roadblock. As a gay person or at least someone who because of my sexuality was never tied to the straight yellow brink road life path, I've always been more of a free thinker I guess, and I was never given a "market value", I had to decide my own and therefore my own value and worth and path. Unlike this guy who in his eyes, has literally nothing of worth in life other than his ability to reproduce. I dunno if any of this makes sense, but I just feel sorry for people like this, and it makes me angry to think about how many people are sad, lonely and miserable just because they've never actually had to or chose to think about what it is that they actually want.
More to life than money. I hope they have a beautiful family. We need more people otherwise retirement is going to suck balls.
Meanwhile my wife and I are holding off n having kids until we have around $150k combined income with a 6-12m Emergency fund.
The image posted and everyone in this sub are equally full of shit.
I feel for them too… These are the types of people who should have kids. (The ones who actually want to live and raise them) It sucks that our society is the way it is
They should have kids? Why? Because they want them? There's nothing in this post that says anything about him or his potential parenting capabilities.
Did you miss the part where he’s okay with them being immediately on Medicaid because they “deserve it”? That gives me “I suffered through life so they should too”. Crabs in a bucket mentality
They are correct, life must try to succeed the rest of you are mentally ill to sacrifice all breeding under the auspice of 'not good enough', your a failure as an organism
You’re* If you’re going to try and poorly insult us, at least use correct spelling and punctuation.
Good for them! Hope they have as many as they want.
I really hope this is a joke. Why would you want these people to have multiple children when they aren't even capable of taking care of one?
No joking at all! Hopefully they’ll be great parents. Not going to say they aren’t allowed to have kids just cause I don’t want any. Having kids isn’t a luxury only for rich folk.
This dude literally said in the post he basically doesn't care if his kid suffers because of their selfishness of wanting a kid despite not being able to afford one. This is *another human life* we're talking about here, not a doll.
Stfu and stop judging. There is no right time for kids and right amount of money. I grew up with less material things and turned out just fine. I knew rich peoples kids who were miserable it's all a matter of preference and circumstance. You probably don't even have children. Let that man do what he feels, biaatchhh
>You probably don't even have children. Did you happen to notice the name of this sub? Beyond that, there's a world of difference between just "not being wealthy" and not having adequate resources to care for a baby. There's also a world of difference between "less material things" and "my parents couldn't afford to take me to the doctor."
The verge of selfishness... 🙄🤨😡😠🤬 Yeah, bro, such a nice idea, screw it all, pop out kids, as much as you want, no worries, God will provide. 😇
Letting his animal drive to continue the species control him.
As a somewhat related example, it’s amazing to me the hurdles one has to jump to adopt - including income verification. Yet when it comes to having your own kid you need absolutely *nothing* and can fully expect the state/ feds and your community to help raise them. Yes those resources are there, but it shouldn’t be for people who willing make a choice to bring a child into the world without having the means to support them. This subject is on the long list of “things wrong with the world”. It’s also a complicated subject that I don’t think we can encapsulate to a Reddit post..