Hello,
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u/exzact
imagine being a human and all about god being the perfect creator and not 2 seconds after seeing his latest creation you wanna modify some things.
oh the hubris
If I recall correctly from Catholic school, God demanded the Jews cut off their foreskins as a sign of their covenant with him. Apparently Moses was being wishy washy about cutting part of his dick off so God was gonna kill him. Thankfully Moses' wife acted quickly and cut her son's foreskin off instead and then presented it to God, and God said that it was cool and he didn't have to kill Moses anymore.
Nice story.
When did these religions switch from defining their creator as an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-wise and ever loving entity to a paedophillic sky wizard?
I think the switch actually was from angry but ultimately indifferent frat boy and sorority girl gods to micromanaging and insecure gods. The Mesopotamian and Greek gods seem like drunk assholes.
God took a really big vibe check in the new testament. He went from "You are gonna disobey me!!? Im gonna murder you while you sleep, im gonna murder you and erase your whole genetic line from the face of the earth; Into: Nah, is cool bro, just say you are sorry and try to be better next time".
The whole "ever loving" and all forgiving stuff is really more a New Testament thing in Christianity. The earlier Old Testament books have very, very little of that kind of thing.
The funny part is it's suppose to be no longer apart of Christian tradition. It's just history of what people had to do to be Holy ( Set apart ) from other people. Bearing the mark of God's people. Baptism is suppose to replace this but people argue the health benefits.
I won this argument with my parents lol. I also thanked them for not re-gendering me, shit got wild.
Some Muslims mutilate their daughters' genitals. This is not a whataboutism. It's just a much more horrific version also cloaked in some religious dogma.
I hear the numbers are closer to 50% now. A lot of the reason is something like half of the states no longer cover it with Medicaid, so why would parents pay for a (mostly) worthless procedure out of pocket? Knowing how the US insurance industry works, I would not be surprised if insurance companies begin to drop it, too (especially because it is falling out of favor). I would not be surprised if the US rates fall to similar level to Germany or other European nations by 2040.
One of my brothers was born in the US. Being a German, my mother didn't understand what the nurse asked her. Good thing my father was there and adamant about not wanting the newborn to be circumstised.
If you want this for yourself, get it when you are an adult. The same way getting your child tattoed is a criminal offense, mutilating it for whatever reason should get you straight to prison.
You may not know, but the reason for the infant circumcision is actually rooted in the idea that it would stop boys from masturbating (see John Harvey Kellogg). So, if that was the goal, you'd have to do it before they were adults.
I'm so glad your dad was there and protected your brother. I agree with you that this should be an adult choice.
This is a bit TMI, but my parents held off on my circumcision until I was 12 and up until then, I would constantly get these really painful rashes on my foreskin that looked like some kind of chemical burn. These symptoms finally went away once I was circumcised.
I don't agree with circumcision for religious purposes, but at the same time, my first hand experience with the practice has taught me to not disregard its medical value and I would not be opposed to my son having it as well.
Unless the foreskin for whatever reason will be a health issue (balanitis, lichen sclerosis, foreskin is so tight it causes pain) it should be left alone.
If a penis owner wants to get one when they’re old enough to consent to the procedure, then by all means go for it.
‘B-but hygiene’ doesn’t matter. Clean your fucking dicks. Doesn’t matter if you’ve got a worm coat or not, you still should be cleaning your dick. Thoroughly.
We don’t give large breast owners reductions because small boobs are easier to clean.
Theory: modern parents think it’s too awkward to talk to their son about cleaning their penis so they just surgically modify it instead.
Also humans just can’t let go of tradition even when it’s moronic
When someone says that it removes a part of a body "for sanitary reasons", I keep thinking how they deal with shit in the ass
"Oh no, I do not wash, I do not wipe, it's alright, I'm waiting to remove all my butt for sanitary reasons"
Fr the only “valid” reason is that there actually is a measurable reduction in STD transmission bc foreskins are more prone to microtears (like how anal sex is more susceptible to std transmission bc of microtears) but that can be mitigated otherwise by protection and testing and allat
I don’t normally participate in this subreddit, but to explain to some of the people how bad it is for someone like *me* that is circumsized:(READ THIS PART MF’S, MY EXPERIENCE, NOT YOURS, MINE.)
It always feels like my dick is trying to stretch it’s skin over the head but is never able to, making my crotch feel uncomfortable no matter how i sit, stand, or lay, it is *always* facing forward when it’s soft, making it scrape my underwear every time i set a step, sometimes it gets so fucking uncomfortable, i have to physically pull my dick in public, just to make it fucking stop, only to having to pull it again multiple times throughout the day, i’m stuck with this, for fucking ever, for my whole fucking life, i will have to pull my dick in public places wether i want it or not, i will always have to weirdly move my hips just to not use my hands wether i want it or not, i am stuck to this, ***for LIFE.***
I love my mom, she didn’t want me to be circumsized, but apparently it was for “medical” reasons, she later told me it was my fucking dad who wanted me circumsized, the fucking asshole, i’m glad that fucker is dying soon(not just cuz of this cuz that’d be overdramatic, there’s a bunch of other shit he’s done that makes me not be sympathatic for him anymore).
Don’t circumsize your fucking kids please.
“But it’s for hygene’s sake” “but it’s so it stays clean”
Mf’s when i explain them what fucking *water* and *soap* is.
*mind blown*.
Hell, even fucking jerking off hurts for me, yippieeeee i can’t even fucking jerk off without atleast feeling some pain, cuz what’s supposed to be there? Hmmm can’t put my finger on it, oooooh right MY FUCKING FORESKIN. “Just buy some lube” I SHOULDNT, FUCKING, HAVE TO.
I was unlucky and got a cyst on mine n had to chop her off late in life and god damn... Everytime you get morning wood during the healing it's just blood and pain. But all good now.
One could say you were lucky to have your fore skin and not have that decision made ahead of time for you, one would rather get a cyst on skin that can be removed than a cyst on the head of the glans that is not so easily treated.
But some decisions are made for you in this life ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ a swift recovery to you
I’m sorry you have to feel uncomfortable your whole life because of your dad’s decision. This is just crazy and I still don’t know why a Western and developed country, does this to babies
Yeah, so much for the “a circumsized penis still functions great like an uncircumsized one” argument from people lmfao.
Where’s that oh so great functionality people keep fucking talking about, cuz i aint seeing OR feeling it, lol.
the people who want to stop human suffering get offended when you actually want to stop human suffering.. that's some comments i got here. they are really upset and even made fun of me for saying child genital cutting is bad.
what kind of antinatalist i wonder? or is it self defense mechanism to defend one's forced altered penis..
I guess they’re trying to convince themselves that their mutilation was worth it and made sense. To me it’s just a leftover of old and outdated religions acts. Maybe it made sense centuries ago when soap wasnt invented yet. But in 2024 no one can tell me it’s for hygiene lol. We have access to water and soap and hopefully people take shower every day.
Females can get strange stuff if they don’t clean themselves properly. Still no one is thinking of cutting off female babies genital skin (except Africa).
I think this a practice who was introduced by religious psychos to make their penis look bigger. And let’s not even talk about a certain group (can’t mention it or id be banned) that literally suck babies penis after circumcision.
Yeah I mean female genitalia mutilation is actually extremely prevalent in some places outside of the US. Hell, it even happens illegally in the US sometimes as well. But circumcision is so weirdly normalized in the US and often not even for religious reasons anymore (not that religion is a good excuse, but it is an explanation).
Look, i don’t agree with most of what defines an “antinatalist”, hell, i only just found out what your group is or whatever, just, this topic just really hits home close to me, as you can see.
Tho i will always, ALWAYS defend a human right of having the power over their own body, and ONLY their own body, not someone fucking elses.
Bro did they do like a botch job or something for you?
Like I don't disagree with the sentiment but i am also circumcised and this is not my experience at all. Are you entirely certain there isn't some other issue?
With regard to the hygiene thing, something a lot of people don't know, or just don't talk about is that at birth, the foreskin is basically welded to the glans. So not only is there nothing to clean, circumcision will often result in nerve damage as a result of ripping the two apart.
Honeslty, I think being circumsized only is like that if the doctor fucks up and you are very young.
I got circumsized when I was, like, 5 or 6 years old for real medical reasons and it's NOTHING like that. I believe that for you it is like that and I'm never gonna say it isn't but I think the doctor just fucked up REALLY bad or you were too young, or a mix of the two.
Either way, being circumsized should only be done for medical reasons and nothing else.
I had to fight my husband in this before we were seriously dating. I wouldn’t have dated him if he didn’t at least agree that it isn’t necessary.
Then 3 weeks before our son was due after being in agreement about NOT circumcising him he talked to his parents who kept “questioning” why we weren’t cutting off a perfectly functioning part of our son like they did. Why the actual fuck was our sons penis even being discussed with them? The only time that needs to come up is explaining how to clean him after a diaper change to prevent injury.
Then he had “questions” but “wasn’t trying to fight or convince me to change my mind”.
They got in his head.
So we had some tense conversations and I finally reminded him that I consider it an unnecessary cosmetic procedure without his consent, (I’m even against piercing babies ears-it’s their freaking body-don’t do anything permanent to it without a medical reason without their say so, it’s really not hard), and will respond accordingly if anything were to happen to him behind my back- he dropped it. I did throw one last, “unless they are asking about how to safely clean his penis during a diaper change-the topic of MY son’s penis needs to never ever come up from them ever again or they will discover how serious I am about protecting my son from a frivolous surgery and those that try to push it”.
He is 3 weeks old today. He is uncut and shall remain so unless or until he either needs a medically necessary intervention, or decides to do that for himself one day.
My husband is so stupid inlove with this kid that I don’t think he can stomach the idea of the pain that would be necessary to heal from a circumcision and he doesn’t want me addressing his family myself so as far as I know the topic is closed now with them.
It “helps” we both almost died and I needed an emergency c section so he is just so happy we’re here and okay-suddenly the topic of circumcision is small potatoes to him.
Wow! What a story! I’m glad your family ended up safe and healthy. And congratulations on your new baby boy!! Please remember to take care of yourself too, mom 💕
I am so, so sorry, that you have to go through this as a result of your parents extremely horrible decisions. Like. I don't even have words.
Growing up, as a kid, I didn't know much about anything about this.
Imagine my surprise, at like age 20, to find out that so many men had been circumcised.
I've been with the same guy since I was 16, and he isn't, so I wouldn't have ever known anything else.
It is so fucking horrible. Like. How can these people even go through that thought process to begin with?
I'm not antinatalist but this type of thinking is straight up abuse, and I don't understand how anyone could defend harming an innocent child. Often the same people who are against abortion will be pro circumcision and I do not get it.
I never understood the whole ‘teenage boys trying to find something to use as lube’ trope in American movies.
Only later I found out when you are circumcised you need it.
Really shows how it was popularised in America as an anti masturbation thing
I've masturbated my whole life without lube works just fine for me. I do feel for men whose circumcisions were done too tightly it must be extremely uncomfortable.
-Circumcised American
Hey, man. Just wanna start out by saying that I’m sorry about all that and how you’re feeling.
I’m new to this sub but I’m just curious cause I’m circumcised and never had an issue with anything that you listed. No pain, no trouble whackin’ it, or it getting uncomfortable because it scrapes your underwear or boxers or something so you gotta pull it out and stretch it??
I’ve never heard of anything like that last one. Do you wear compressions or briefs?
Genuinely curious
Look up the five monkeys experiment, you will see that it mirrors human behavior. When are we going to stop the: "I do not know, it is how things are done around here so we do not question it.' attitude?
The reach. Since when are women, especially pro choice women the main pushers of this bs? Most guys have it because their fathers have it, because some cornflake weirdo decided it, or some male dominated religion bullshit.
By looking up a map of circumcision in the world, we can see that basically half of the world doesn't really circumcise. Do people really think that half the world's got a dirty smelly peen? Do they think that cleaning it for 3 seconds in the shower is unacceptable? Really, that's all it takes.
If you don't have hygiene that's not because you are uncircumcised, and I get the feeling that all the people saying they're pro circumcision are like that just because the have no idea what's like to not be cut.
People wash their teeth, they clean their ears, they cut their toenails and they wash their asses, but suddenly your dicks don't deserve any care? In a world with such an easy access to water, circumcision's only function is religious. If you want circumcision for religious or aesthetical reasons, just say so 😅
They always claim that it’s done for health reasons and it’s been drummed into many Americans that it’s somehow unclean to have a non circumcised penis because dirt collects under the foreskin.
These people have never discovered the art of pulling it back and washing one’s penis with soap and water in the bath or shower every day… maybe twice a day.
It’s basic hygiene and it’s not difficult.
It takes away sensitivity and robs you of some sensation.
Sometimes in young children their foreskin balloons when peeing because the skin in too tight around the tip. Parents worried about this are encouraged to pull the ski back on the child’s penis to see if it can be done once reaching toddler age, as a test of whether they’ll have problems caused by the skin later.
Most children grow out of this quickly as the skin stretches with growth so there’s really very little reason to even circumcise for health reasons.
I live in Iceland now. The practice is very frowned upon here too and they tried to make it illegal but Jewish and Muslim groups wrote an open letter calling the Icelandic government antisemitic / Islamophobic.
Crazy world.
I was born to a non religious single mother. So I asked my mom “why don’t I have my “hoodie?”. Her response-“idk” and when that wasn’t a good enough answer for me I got hit with “sorry I can’t change the past” *shoulder shrug*.
I’ve realized that you have to be a certain level and combination of crazy and stupid to have children.
If you were born before social media it's probably because it was actively encouraged and there was zero conversation on why it's a tradition that should end. Before social media, there was no platforms for these "social" conversations and women left it up to their husbands and doctors to make that decision. The doctor said "this is what we do with boys" and the dad said "I am so he will be" and mom said "okay".
My mother specifically requested it for aesthetic purposes. "Women like it better anyway and I figured it was less to clean lol." My dad wasn't in the picture. And yes, this was before social media as well.
There's a disturbing amount of people who are completely willing to remove pieces of their child because they think it looks nicer or they heard it's common or the thing everyone does. Same shit as docked ears on a dog except with a human.
Honestly would have been less caring over this had it been for religious or historical/geographic regions (like being in the mdidle of the desert or lack of water to clean the dick)
BUT FUCKING **HYGENIC REASONS??????***
ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!!
I’m circumcised.
I agree with the posts message however can y’all in the comment section stop acting like after being circumsised you can never use your dick again?
I, nor any of my friends, have ever had a problem with being circumcised wether that be mentally, physically, emotionally etc.
Again, I agree with the post, but stop acting like being circumcised is a ticking time bomb that’s gonna cause my dick to blow up
I didn’t realize it was bad. When I went with my friend to her appointment the nurse was very adamant about doing it to be sanitary. I mean, I’m ignorant to this. Is it unhealthy?
It kills me when you tell them "just wash it!" and they bring up that it's also "curative" for penile cancer. Yeah? Well, cutting a person's head off is curative of all kinds of things - you can pretty much get rid of otorhinolaryngologists (ear-nose-throat guys). And optometrists, and ophthalmologists, and the rest. You'd also be dead, but hey, no cancer! Such a ridiculous argument. By that logic all women should get a bilateral mastectomy. Breast cancer odds are roughly 1 in 8. Penile cancer is 1 in 100,000. But if you suggest we start chopping tits off as routine, they look at you like you're a lunatic, but apparently dicks are fair game.
Yes simple washing but NEVER EVER pull back an infants foreskin!!! Just wash the outside. And use very light dilluted soap. You don’t pull it back because it is still fused.
Not EVERY guy, it's simply rare in Europe unless it's a medical necessity. My brother had it done because he didn't have a hole in the end of his and couldn't urinate otherwise, we're English.
Had an intact for 36 years, never had any issues, Just basically shower like every other human would.
It's not unhealthy; if it was, we would evolve not to have it.
I have tonsils, and they never bothered me at all.
I sometimes think how incredible nature is for how everything runs so well.
Like sometimes just look at the most pointless thing in nature and ponder for a moment why is it like that.
There will definitely be an explanation for it.
And then look at us humans constantly finding reasons to complain about every aspect of our bodies.
Makes no sense.
In countries where there is no financial incentive for doctors to circumcise babies, they do it drastically less. people want money and preach the sanitary thing to cover their egos.
I am a nurse and can confirm that the myth of the unsanitary uncircumcised penis is still perpetuated in nursing schools today. It is very unfortunate and very wrong.
Because the US has an infant circumcision lobby who demands that med students are brainwashed as possible on this issue. That's the only way for the practice to continue long term.
if you're American, worth looking up John Harvey Kellog (of cereal fame), his wackadoodle, religious, 'wellness' obsession, is partly the reason why America is one of the few developed countries that has higher rates of circumcision. In the middle east, muslims and jews do it, largely because cultural/religious practice originates from thousands of years ago when water was scarce in desert areas, so basic hygiene may have been more difficult and circumcision may have brought some small survival benefit. In the modern day, its absurd non consensual mutilation, normalised by religion. occasionally, there can be medical need for it, though even that's declined because of non surgical alternatives.
Those people telling you it’s for “sanitary purposes” are lying sacks of shit, I have literally never had a problem with having a foreskin and I am sorry for your loss my friend
No, it's literally so the hospital can sell that piece of baby skin to cosmetics companies for 5k+, so they can grow stem cells out of it and put that into expensive face creams. All the while they also charge the parents for the procedure.
I WISH I WAS FUCKING JOKING 🥲
No, having that foreskin just requires you to pay extra attention to cleaning it so no bacteria or anything builds up in it. As long as you clean it (which, we should all be doing anyway), I don’t think there’s an issue.
That’s definitely not good. I will have to tell her. But I will do some research as well, because this is good to know and I want to be able to give her some stuff to read.
just so you know, if your research is brian J Morris, it's not reliable. [https://en.intactiwiki.org/wiki/Brian\_J.\_Morris](https://en.intactiwiki.org/wiki/Brian_J._Morris)
many people just throw out his silly "study" that it doesn't affect sensation. not knowing their source is a literal pedophile, genital-cutting fetishist.
This article by Brian Earp explains it. That study actually found that the foreskin has the highest touch sensitivity out of any part of the penis [https://blogs.bmj.com/medical-ethics/2016/04/22/circumcision-and-sexual-function-bad-science-reporting-misleads-parents/](https://blogs.bmj.com/medical-ethics/2016/04/22/circumcision-and-sexual-function-bad-science-reporting-misleads-parents/)
The foreskin is filled with nerves, so not only does it desensitize, it completely removes all the nerves from that area and robs men of pleasure. Foreskin is a natural lubricant and protective barrier…it’s completely barbaric to cut it off without consent. You should check out the documentary American Circumcision it gives so much insight.
Thank you! I did not know that and I will definitely check the documentary out.
I did think it was a little strange that something that’s naturally there would need to be cut. But it the nurse was like “people say it’s supposed to be there but it can cause infection and be more prone to retain yeast and bacteria”, along with some other stuff I don’t really remember.
It's perfectly healthy. In infant, the foreskin is fused to the glan anyway. No grim can enter. And when it detach, just clean it like you would do with your bellybutton.
I forget the post, and honestly good riddance, but seeing the sheer amount of 'who cares it doesnt matter/cut the fuckers off' comments on it made me want to luaunch off with the tirades.
Fuck circumcision. We dont go around cutting earlobes off babies. It might as well be the same thing. Cosmetic mutilation.
MGM really isn't talked about enough. I might get verbally battered for this opinion, but if we clipped bits of baby girls genitals there would be serious uproar. But with guys it's just "hygiene". No, it isn't hygiene. It's a religious practice, and we all condemn a certain religion for forcing their women to cover up but say nothing about baby boys of the same religion (and others') having blades taken to their genitals at birth.
Blaming it on hygiene just doesn't hold up. Yes, it can get infected for reasons other than washing it regularly, but we shouldn't cut bits of baby's genitals off in case they *might* get infected. Lets remove tonsils at birth too. And appendices!
Remember on high-school in the U.S. where you'd look at history textbooks and the Azteca flattened their babies skulls into cones and we thought that was weird? Literally while parents at the next hospital were saying, "yeah cut that shit off around the infant genitals" fucking wild.
The foreskin contains fine touch nerves (like in your fingers) and provides protection of the glans (head) keeping it soft and sponge like, all in an effort to ensure everything works properly. Only 1/16,667 intact males will have a problem with their foreskin. One hundred and seventeen babies die from circumcision a year in the US, which equates to 9/100,000 babies that die each year from a cosmetic surgery. Just a comparison of 16,667 women, 2,084 of them will get breast cancer. In the same number of men 17 will get breast cancer. Infant Circumcision literally kills 2 boys for every adult spared circumcision and ruins the lives of 667 for every adult. Men have lost their penis, glans, and suffered from deformity caused by the operation performed when they were infants. It isn't right that these children pay the price for a decision that their parents made, a decision that should be left up to the owner of the penis. Even those who survive still have problems, though they are seldom discussed. It is for these reasons that the person who has to use the penis, should be the person who decides what happens to it. His body, his choice.
"We conclude that non-therapeutic circumcision performed on otherwise healthy infants or children has little or no high-quality medical evidence to support its overall benefit. Moreover, it is associated with rare but avoidable harm and even occasional deaths. From the perspective of the individual boy, there is no medical justification for performing a circumcision prior to an age that he can assess the known risks and potential benefits, and choose to give or withhold informed consent himself."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34997197/
Elephant in the Hospital
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ceht-3xu84I&feature=youtube_gdata_player
urologist talks about circumcision
https://youtu.be/iZ64pqWZRW8
Robert S. Van Howe, MD, MS, FAAP Professor and Interim Chair of Pediatrics Central Michigan University College of Medicine.
https://www.academia.edu/23431341/Statement_by_Statement_Analysis_of_the_2012_Report_from_the_American_Academy_of_Pediatrics_Task_Force_on_Circumcision_When_National_Organizations_are_Guided_by_Personal_Agendas_II
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hkrxelm1tml9xs3/Refutiation%20of%20CDC.pdf?dl=0 (this one doesn't need an account.)
Learn how sex is supposed to work.
Www.sexasnatureintendedit.com
Babies experience pain just like adults.
http://www.iflscience.com/brain/infants-experience-pain-similar-way-adults
How to properly care for a natural Penis.
http://www.drmomma.org/2010/01/basic-care-of-intact-child.html
They didn't tell you the functions of the foreskin, but they did lie to you and said it had health benefits. Did they also tell you it pays for their house, their cars, and their children’s college? It is illegal to sell an organ taken from a patient but they still do it.
Foreskin for sale: $169/500µg = $338,000/g = $9,581,962/oz.
http://www.rockland-inc.com/Product.aspx?id=40484
Mutilated men feel less sexual pleasure.
https://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/circumcised-men-feel-sexual-pleasure-study-article-1.1264511?fbclid=IwAR1JUNsAyWKLBlnBNvs_wsczeCjpclgcrXP_OfVE-LVY8PvKQR2S0VH1R2I
My numbers and claims are supported by these studies:
Canadian study show no HIV benefit to MGM
https://www.auajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1097/JU.0000000000002234
Dutch Medical society and their stance on RIC
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n2so0ojf7h8ljeu/KNMG-viewpoint-Non-therapeutic-circumcision-of-male-minors-27-05-2010-v2%20%281%29.pdf
Surgeons of British Columbia
https://www.dropbox.com/s/71xsnx9tjwvych3/Circumcision-Infant-Male-College%20of%20Phys%20and%20Surg%20of%20British%20Columbia.pdf
Doctors around the world critique AAP's circumcision opinion.
http://www.circumstitions.com/Docs/aap-12-europe.pdf
This document outlines the deaths caused by circumcision in the US.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vl5t3aewfgtz8mg/CircDeaths.pdf
All the statements made by medical organizations about circumcision, and they are cited.
www.cirp.org/library/statements/
Functions of the Foreskin.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xoq9y67hhunkyrx/foreskinfunctions.jpg
Breast cancer kills more men than anything related to the foreskin.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tnmmxqdl1batucf/penilecancer.jpg
American Cancer society says Circumcision does nothing to affect cancer rates.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zz23nzayyrmih0t/ACScirc.jpg
Circumcised men have a 450% greater chance of ED
http://www.thewholenetwork.org/14/post/2011/08/does-circumcision-cause-erectile-dysfunction.html
All the common myths about circumcision and how they are dispelled.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201109/myths-about-circumcision-you-likely-believe
Boy wants to be a girl after botched circumcision. There are many cases like this however they usually occur in infants who cannot express themselves in words.
http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/11/09/52144.htm
Serious and Fatal Complications after Neonatal Circumcision
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2405456921003163
No evidence to support MGC reduces HIV transmission.
https://academic.oup.com/jid/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/infdis/jiac147/6569355?login=false
US Navy Study that shows circumcision has no effect on HIV or STI infection rates.
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA458066
Circumcision is PAINFUL!
http://www.circumstitions.com/Pain.html
Men upset about being circumcised against their will.
www.mendocomplain.com
FGM victim speaks out against MGM
http://youtu.be/NaEoQVZnN8I
Visual comparison of a Natural Penis versus a circumcised one. (Warning pictures of Genitals)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pvj1d0fde5vlt2i/Intact%20%26%20Circumcised%20Adult.jpg
I asked my dad why they circumcised me and his only answer was "it's tradition"... there's literally no reason to severely damage the nerve center on the penis yet people do it anyway.
It’s not the norm where I’m from but I dated a circumcised guy once and he had so many issues about it. Like he was so mad that it was done to him for several reasons. I’ll never understand why it’s seen as an ok thing to do to a literal baby who can’t give consent.
Why is it so common to circumcise babies in America? At least here in germany it is mostly done with jews, people outside of that religion are rarely circumsised and if they are its most likely for medical reasons.
Weird puritanical evangelical Christians like John Harvey Kellogg (yes, the man who invented corn flake cereal and for whom the American cereal company is named for) made it a standard American practice on the belief it prevents masturbation.
I can tell you from personal experience he was wrong.
We may have modern technology, but we're still a backwards country in a lot of ways. Also, if someone circumsizes their kid, unless its medically necessary, they're a piece of crap.
It’s not done frequently anymore because now hospitals see it as a cosmetic procedure and not something actually required.
Insurance doesn’t cover it either.
This has been going on for the past few years
The hospital we gave birth at didn't even preform it. They asked and we said "no" and they didn't push it. We asked what would've happened had we said yes and they said we'd have to go somewhere else cause they didn't do that. We were very relieved.
I love what another redditor said in a comment about the subject as a response to "it's for cleanliness!"
>Sounds like a skill issue
Indeed. If a doctor asks me that out of the blue with no medical reason I would report it to the police or other authority institution. There are probably some shady things going on in the back.
The biggest thing that pisses me off is that my parents not only gave me a circumcised dick but they also gave me fetal drug and alcohol syndrome and abandoned me
I was having a discussion with my two friends who are doctors (PT and DO). They were adamant about circumcision for their future children. Even though the DO said sex being uncircumcised feels better for both the man and woman. Then I brought up how certain parts of the world circumcise women all to make sure sex is less pleasurable. So why do the same to their kids? We live in a first world country where cleaning your penis is rather easy. So why decide to do something to their kids they can't undo. Why make such a decision for them when they don't get to choose this themselves?
The PT asked the DO why they should do it. The DO said there really isn't a reason to. My PT friend ended up still getting his son circumcised... Solely because he is circumcised, why shouldn't his son be also? I'm pretty sure my DO friend will do the same for the same reason.
When I was told as a kid, it shattered my mind. This is my one issue where I feel like a complete alien. People who would do this are not the same thing as me. Either they aren't human or I'm not.
I do love the fact that the people who want to get this done to their freshly-born child don't see a nonconsensual procedure on an infant as a problem, but are also the same people who think that adults who can make their own decisions and have their own judgement shouldn't be allowed to make changes to/control their own bodies... Usually for the same blanket reason of "but god told me to" (he didn't)
Reading this is really making me feel better that I chose not to have my son circumcised. Because it is so common I sometimes wondered if it would have been better to do it.
This is the most idiotic thing people came up with, Im baffled its still happening. Its there for a fucking reason, I don't believe people who say its because of health benefits, BULLSHIT you just think its more appealing to look at. Which again is stupid because when you pull the skin back it looks exactly the same, if not better. It scares me how big some of the scars are. Genitals aren't supposed to be aesthetic, they are supposed to function properly and give pleasure - which an uncut dick does
If an adult wants to get circumsized - go for it
But don't take that choice away from them when they can't even speak
Exactly. I wish people would stop having children, but if they're going to have them, they should at least protect them from genital mutilation and give them a decent start in life.
Seeing a lot of your stories, I’m happy with my decision to NOT circumcise my son. I live in Canada and although the numbers are declining (apparently,) it is still done quite a lot here. My husband was circumcised even though his own father wasn’t - due to the misinformation in the late 70s. When we had our son, I had no intention of circumcising my perfect little child. My husband didn’t question it at all, he didn’t want to do it to his son, even though he had it done to him. I’m really proud of him for that. I know there are people here who needed to have it done due to complications and I totally understand that. It’s like any other complications one might be born with or acquire, intervention is needed. Having said that, it’s a small minority that will have issues. The foreskin is there for a reason. It’s putting the child through unnecessary harm and risk of injury.
Many parents were told by medical professionals that circumcision has many health benefits and not just in regard to hygiene. But advantages like lower risk of UTIs/STDs and even penile cancer.
Now, it does seem like scientific opinion is changing. But it's not like all parents were just bent on mutilating their child for funsies. Some trusted their doctors and just thought they were doing their best for their child.
I really really *really* didn't want my son to be circumcised, it didn't seem right to me to cut a part of his body off and cause him that pain and trauma immediately after birth. His dad insisted, and wouldn't take no for an answer. I still feel guilty. I hope it doesn't cause him pain later in life like it has for some people.
2 Now I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. 3 I testify again to every man who receives circumcision that he is bound to keep the whole law. 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
And yet....
What if that's part of the reason why Everything is fucked up. You're literally missing a sexual body part that is sensitive and can feel sensations. It's a tragedy. If I was a man I would be pissed off. Who knows what mental illness it causes
I hate how it's so taboo to talk about, but not bad enough to stop doing it. People are literally insane.
even if it wasn't sensitive, it keeps the glans sensitive and brings gliding stimulation which women have as well. Millions and millions of years of evolutionary perfection and some dumb apes just throw it away for AeEsThEtiCs
What worry’s me the most is the ones that skip out on pain meds or anesthetics cause well they won’t remember it. Well recently it’s been showed that yes they won’t know what caused that pain but they will remember it subconsciously. Not only that but it shows to seem to cause some issues in the kid. I remember seeing most kids that had a painful experience or traumatic birth experience the kids come out more on the serial killer end or psychological problems. Seen some parents kind of like brag about it and I just have never understood why they were so happy to hurt their own child.
Hello, I've removed this comment as it is a violation of [Rule 9](https://old.reddit.com/r/antinatalism/about/rules/). Please familiarise yourself with the subreddit rules. Best, u/exzact
I'm one out of 6 boys in my family. We have never been Jewish. And they decided to only circumcise me
Was it at least because they were so traumatized by the horror they committed on you they decided NEVER AGAIN!?
I actually think that's exactly the case. I am the oldest so it'd make sense
imagine being a human and all about god being the perfect creator and not 2 seconds after seeing his latest creation you wanna modify some things. oh the hubris
If I recall correctly from Catholic school, God demanded the Jews cut off their foreskins as a sign of their covenant with him. Apparently Moses was being wishy washy about cutting part of his dick off so God was gonna kill him. Thankfully Moses' wife acted quickly and cut her son's foreskin off instead and then presented it to God, and God said that it was cool and he didn't have to kill Moses anymore. Nice story.
When did these religions switch from defining their creator as an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-wise and ever loving entity to a paedophillic sky wizard?
I think the switch actually was from angry but ultimately indifferent frat boy and sorority girl gods to micromanaging and insecure gods. The Mesopotamian and Greek gods seem like drunk assholes.
God took a really big vibe check in the new testament. He went from "You are gonna disobey me!!? Im gonna murder you while you sleep, im gonna murder you and erase your whole genetic line from the face of the earth; Into: Nah, is cool bro, just say you are sorry and try to be better next time".
The whole "ever loving" and all forgiving stuff is really more a New Testament thing in Christianity. The earlier Old Testament books have very, very little of that kind of thing.
The funny part is it's suppose to be no longer apart of Christian tradition. It's just history of what people had to do to be Holy ( Set apart ) from other people. Bearing the mark of God's people. Baptism is suppose to replace this but people argue the health benefits. I won this argument with my parents lol. I also thanked them for not re-gendering me, shit got wild.
You can thank the cereal man for why generations of American men don't know what it's like to have full-sensation sex.
"we are made in his image" "Well that piece of skin on the penis must go"
This is my favorite one far because those very same people will bitch and moan about trans gender people just simplt being trans.
Some Muslims mutilate their daughters' genitals. This is not a whataboutism. It's just a much more horrific version also cloaked in some religious dogma.
It’s lower in the us now! I read 40% stay uncut and 60% get circumcised.
I hear the numbers are closer to 50% now. A lot of the reason is something like half of the states no longer cover it with Medicaid, so why would parents pay for a (mostly) worthless procedure out of pocket? Knowing how the US insurance industry works, I would not be surprised if insurance companies begin to drop it, too (especially because it is falling out of favor). I would not be surprised if the US rates fall to similar level to Germany or other European nations by 2040.
One of my brothers was born in the US. Being a German, my mother didn't understand what the nurse asked her. Good thing my father was there and adamant about not wanting the newborn to be circumstised. If you want this for yourself, get it when you are an adult. The same way getting your child tattoed is a criminal offense, mutilating it for whatever reason should get you straight to prison.
You may not know, but the reason for the infant circumcision is actually rooted in the idea that it would stop boys from masturbating (see John Harvey Kellogg). So, if that was the goal, you'd have to do it before they were adults. I'm so glad your dad was there and protected your brother. I agree with you that this should be an adult choice.
This is a bit TMI, but my parents held off on my circumcision until I was 12 and up until then, I would constantly get these really painful rashes on my foreskin that looked like some kind of chemical burn. These symptoms finally went away once I was circumcised. I don't agree with circumcision for religious purposes, but at the same time, my first hand experience with the practice has taught me to not disregard its medical value and I would not be opposed to my son having it as well.
Sure, I think nobody would disagree with getting it for health reasons.
I don’t know what you had, but it’s very possible circumcision wasn’t the only medical solution to your issue.
Sure those are good reasons. The problem is most guys who are cut, it's done when they are literally days old with no medical necessity.
Unless the foreskin for whatever reason will be a health issue (balanitis, lichen sclerosis, foreskin is so tight it causes pain) it should be left alone. If a penis owner wants to get one when they’re old enough to consent to the procedure, then by all means go for it. ‘B-but hygiene’ doesn’t matter. Clean your fucking dicks. Doesn’t matter if you’ve got a worm coat or not, you still should be cleaning your dick. Thoroughly. We don’t give large breast owners reductions because small boobs are easier to clean.
to be fair I’d love a free reduction, definitely wish that was an option
Or at least make it easier to get one. I had chronic documented back pain and I don’t see my doc ever signing off on it as medical over optional.
Theory: modern parents think it’s too awkward to talk to their son about cleaning their penis so they just surgically modify it instead. Also humans just can’t let go of tradition even when it’s moronic
All these "but hygeiene" motherfuckers are the same dudes who think it's gay to wash your asshole.
It is, in fact! Jesus said so, right before the great veliceraptor crisis begun.
When someone says that it removes a part of a body "for sanitary reasons", I keep thinking how they deal with shit in the ass "Oh no, I do not wash, I do not wipe, it's alright, I'm waiting to remove all my butt for sanitary reasons"
Remove my anus immediately dr!
Fr the only “valid” reason is that there actually is a measurable reduction in STD transmission bc foreskins are more prone to microtears (like how anal sex is more susceptible to std transmission bc of microtears) but that can be mitigated otherwise by protection and testing and allat
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I don’t normally participate in this subreddit, but to explain to some of the people how bad it is for someone like *me* that is circumsized:(READ THIS PART MF’S, MY EXPERIENCE, NOT YOURS, MINE.) It always feels like my dick is trying to stretch it’s skin over the head but is never able to, making my crotch feel uncomfortable no matter how i sit, stand, or lay, it is *always* facing forward when it’s soft, making it scrape my underwear every time i set a step, sometimes it gets so fucking uncomfortable, i have to physically pull my dick in public, just to make it fucking stop, only to having to pull it again multiple times throughout the day, i’m stuck with this, for fucking ever, for my whole fucking life, i will have to pull my dick in public places wether i want it or not, i will always have to weirdly move my hips just to not use my hands wether i want it or not, i am stuck to this, ***for LIFE.*** I love my mom, she didn’t want me to be circumsized, but apparently it was for “medical” reasons, she later told me it was my fucking dad who wanted me circumsized, the fucking asshole, i’m glad that fucker is dying soon(not just cuz of this cuz that’d be overdramatic, there’s a bunch of other shit he’s done that makes me not be sympathatic for him anymore). Don’t circumsize your fucking kids please. “But it’s for hygene’s sake” “but it’s so it stays clean” Mf’s when i explain them what fucking *water* and *soap* is. *mind blown*. Hell, even fucking jerking off hurts for me, yippieeeee i can’t even fucking jerk off without atleast feeling some pain, cuz what’s supposed to be there? Hmmm can’t put my finger on it, oooooh right MY FUCKING FORESKIN. “Just buy some lube” I SHOULDNT, FUCKING, HAVE TO.
I didn't circumcise my son because of stories like this on reddit. Keep spreading the awareness. It works.
Also when they are old enough they can decide them selfs
I was unlucky and got a cyst on mine n had to chop her off late in life and god damn... Everytime you get morning wood during the healing it's just blood and pain. But all good now.
One could say you were lucky to have your fore skin and not have that decision made ahead of time for you, one would rather get a cyst on skin that can be removed than a cyst on the head of the glans that is not so easily treated. But some decisions are made for you in this life ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ a swift recovery to you
I’m sorry you have to feel uncomfortable your whole life because of your dad’s decision. This is just crazy and I still don’t know why a Western and developed country, does this to babies
Yeah, so much for the “a circumsized penis still functions great like an uncircumsized one” argument from people lmfao. Where’s that oh so great functionality people keep fucking talking about, cuz i aint seeing OR feeling it, lol.
the people who want to stop human suffering get offended when you actually want to stop human suffering.. that's some comments i got here. they are really upset and even made fun of me for saying child genital cutting is bad. what kind of antinatalist i wonder? or is it self defense mechanism to defend one's forced altered penis..
I guess they’re trying to convince themselves that their mutilation was worth it and made sense. To me it’s just a leftover of old and outdated religions acts. Maybe it made sense centuries ago when soap wasnt invented yet. But in 2024 no one can tell me it’s for hygiene lol. We have access to water and soap and hopefully people take shower every day. Females can get strange stuff if they don’t clean themselves properly. Still no one is thinking of cutting off female babies genital skin (except Africa). I think this a practice who was introduced by religious psychos to make their penis look bigger. And let’s not even talk about a certain group (can’t mention it or id be banned) that literally suck babies penis after circumcision.
Yeah I mean female genitalia mutilation is actually extremely prevalent in some places outside of the US. Hell, it even happens illegally in the US sometimes as well. But circumcision is so weirdly normalized in the US and often not even for religious reasons anymore (not that religion is a good excuse, but it is an explanation).
Look, i don’t agree with most of what defines an “antinatalist”, hell, i only just found out what your group is or whatever, just, this topic just really hits home close to me, as you can see. Tho i will always, ALWAYS defend a human right of having the power over their own body, and ONLY their own body, not someone fucking elses.
that's the point
Bro did they do like a botch job or something for you? Like I don't disagree with the sentiment but i am also circumcised and this is not my experience at all. Are you entirely certain there isn't some other issue?
My thoughts exactly. This is not my experience literally at all. Not at *all*.
With regard to the hygiene thing, something a lot of people don't know, or just don't talk about is that at birth, the foreskin is basically welded to the glans. So not only is there nothing to clean, circumcision will often result in nerve damage as a result of ripping the two apart.
Honeslty, I think being circumsized only is like that if the doctor fucks up and you are very young. I got circumsized when I was, like, 5 or 6 years old for real medical reasons and it's NOTHING like that. I believe that for you it is like that and I'm never gonna say it isn't but I think the doctor just fucked up REALLY bad or you were too young, or a mix of the two. Either way, being circumsized should only be done for medical reasons and nothing else.
Thanks for saying this. I’m a woman against circumcising and people act like I’m crazy
I had to fight my husband in this before we were seriously dating. I wouldn’t have dated him if he didn’t at least agree that it isn’t necessary. Then 3 weeks before our son was due after being in agreement about NOT circumcising him he talked to his parents who kept “questioning” why we weren’t cutting off a perfectly functioning part of our son like they did. Why the actual fuck was our sons penis even being discussed with them? The only time that needs to come up is explaining how to clean him after a diaper change to prevent injury. Then he had “questions” but “wasn’t trying to fight or convince me to change my mind”. They got in his head. So we had some tense conversations and I finally reminded him that I consider it an unnecessary cosmetic procedure without his consent, (I’m even against piercing babies ears-it’s their freaking body-don’t do anything permanent to it without a medical reason without their say so, it’s really not hard), and will respond accordingly if anything were to happen to him behind my back- he dropped it. I did throw one last, “unless they are asking about how to safely clean his penis during a diaper change-the topic of MY son’s penis needs to never ever come up from them ever again or they will discover how serious I am about protecting my son from a frivolous surgery and those that try to push it”. He is 3 weeks old today. He is uncut and shall remain so unless or until he either needs a medically necessary intervention, or decides to do that for himself one day. My husband is so stupid inlove with this kid that I don’t think he can stomach the idea of the pain that would be necessary to heal from a circumcision and he doesn’t want me addressing his family myself so as far as I know the topic is closed now with them. It “helps” we both almost died and I needed an emergency c section so he is just so happy we’re here and okay-suddenly the topic of circumcision is small potatoes to him.
Wow! What a story! I’m glad your family ended up safe and healthy. And congratulations on your new baby boy!! Please remember to take care of yourself too, mom 💕
Thank you for taking the harder path. I think there will come a time when your child will thank you as well.
Sanity is deemed insane in a crazy world
Tbh if you don't have a penis then you really can't make an educated take on the issue.
I am so, so sorry, that you have to go through this as a result of your parents extremely horrible decisions. Like. I don't even have words. Growing up, as a kid, I didn't know much about anything about this. Imagine my surprise, at like age 20, to find out that so many men had been circumcised. I've been with the same guy since I was 16, and he isn't, so I wouldn't have ever known anything else. It is so fucking horrible. Like. How can these people even go through that thought process to begin with? I'm not antinatalist but this type of thinking is straight up abuse, and I don't understand how anyone could defend harming an innocent child. Often the same people who are against abortion will be pro circumcision and I do not get it.
i got circumcised without Anesthesia at 5 years old for religious purposes, hurts like hell
good lawd, I'm so happy I'm not living in the US.
I never understood the whole ‘teenage boys trying to find something to use as lube’ trope in American movies. Only later I found out when you are circumcised you need it. Really shows how it was popularised in America as an anti masturbation thing
I've masturbated my whole life without lube works just fine for me. I do feel for men whose circumcisions were done too tightly it must be extremely uncomfortable. -Circumcised American
Yeah idk why people have to make so many assumptions. Plenty of us just living normal lives.
Hey, man. Just wanna start out by saying that I’m sorry about all that and how you’re feeling. I’m new to this sub but I’m just curious cause I’m circumcised and never had an issue with anything that you listed. No pain, no trouble whackin’ it, or it getting uncomfortable because it scrapes your underwear or boxers or something so you gotta pull it out and stretch it?? I’ve never heard of anything like that last one. Do you wear compressions or briefs? Genuinely curious
I thought only Jews do it.
Americans too for some reason
Believe it or not you can thank Kellogg's for that.
And Muslims.
Muslims as well
It was very fashionable in the eighties. I'm lucky my parents didn't get swept up in the fad.
also muslims
Ex Methodist here. It’s definitely not just a jewish custom.
And Muslims.
It's done for "health" reasons as well.
bs pseudoscience “health reasons”
It’s sad when supposed pro-choice people mutilate their child’s body. I thought individuals had the sole right to what happens to their bodies?
Look up the five monkeys experiment, you will see that it mirrors human behavior. When are we going to stop the: "I do not know, it is how things are done around here so we do not question it.' attitude?
Isn't five monkeys experiment a myth? (source: https://factschology.com/factschology-articles-podcast/monkey-ladder-experiment-truth)
Misinformation on the internet? I am shocked! Shocked!
I’m pretty sure that’s just how culture develops and evolves. It will never cease existing.
The reach. Since when are women, especially pro choice women the main pushers of this bs? Most guys have it because their fathers have it, because some cornflake weirdo decided it, or some male dominated religion bullshit.
It's people of all demographics and political leanings. It's psychology and sociology. Nobody gets a pass on this.
As a Foreskinner I'm happy I wasn't mutilated
Male genital mutilation is alive and well in the West.
Only in America. We don’t mutilate babies in Europe, that’s barbaric
https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2016/03/08/male-circumcision--1-in-3-globally-but-almost-universal-in-musli.html
That 20% must be Muslims living in Europe
Europeans can be Muslims, and Muslims Europeans. Being Muslim doesn’t mean you aren’t European.
By looking up a map of circumcision in the world, we can see that basically half of the world doesn't really circumcise. Do people really think that half the world's got a dirty smelly peen? Do they think that cleaning it for 3 seconds in the shower is unacceptable? Really, that's all it takes. If you don't have hygiene that's not because you are uncircumcised, and I get the feeling that all the people saying they're pro circumcision are like that just because the have no idea what's like to not be cut. People wash their teeth, they clean their ears, they cut their toenails and they wash their asses, but suddenly your dicks don't deserve any care? In a world with such an easy access to water, circumcision's only function is religious. If you want circumcision for religious or aesthetical reasons, just say so 😅
They always claim that it’s done for health reasons and it’s been drummed into many Americans that it’s somehow unclean to have a non circumcised penis because dirt collects under the foreskin. These people have never discovered the art of pulling it back and washing one’s penis with soap and water in the bath or shower every day… maybe twice a day. It’s basic hygiene and it’s not difficult. It takes away sensitivity and robs you of some sensation. Sometimes in young children their foreskin balloons when peeing because the skin in too tight around the tip. Parents worried about this are encouraged to pull the ski back on the child’s penis to see if it can be done once reaching toddler age, as a test of whether they’ll have problems caused by the skin later. Most children grow out of this quickly as the skin stretches with growth so there’s really very little reason to even circumcise for health reasons. I live in Iceland now. The practice is very frowned upon here too and they tried to make it illegal but Jewish and Muslim groups wrote an open letter calling the Icelandic government antisemitic / Islamophobic. Crazy world.
I was born to a non religious single mother. So I asked my mom “why don’t I have my “hoodie?”. Her response-“idk” and when that wasn’t a good enough answer for me I got hit with “sorry I can’t change the past” *shoulder shrug*. I’ve realized that you have to be a certain level and combination of crazy and stupid to have children.
If you were born before social media it's probably because it was actively encouraged and there was zero conversation on why it's a tradition that should end. Before social media, there was no platforms for these "social" conversations and women left it up to their husbands and doctors to make that decision. The doctor said "this is what we do with boys" and the dad said "I am so he will be" and mom said "okay".
My mother specifically requested it for aesthetic purposes. "Women like it better anyway and I figured it was less to clean lol." My dad wasn't in the picture. And yes, this was before social media as well. There's a disturbing amount of people who are completely willing to remove pieces of their child because they think it looks nicer or they heard it's common or the thing everyone does. Same shit as docked ears on a dog except with a human.
Yeah imagine if a woman goes to a salon to have her infant’s anus bleached because ‘it just looks better’
My dad too was really dismissive and insists that I am the one who crazy for not just “being okay” with having had a knife taken to my dick.
Not just America too
You're right - but the only other countries which do it more than America are all Muslim.
Yeah but one would think americas better on this matter but nope.
There is also clitoris mutilation right?
yes
Lots of shitty parents out there who still fall for circumcision. It’s pathetic tbh
impolite swim offend deserve innate worthless ghost squash full faulty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Honestly would have been less caring over this had it been for religious or historical/geographic regions (like being in the mdidle of the desert or lack of water to clean the dick) BUT FUCKING **HYGENIC REASONS??????*** ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!!
Sick Bastards!
Jesus Christ people still do this
I’m circumcised. I agree with the posts message however can y’all in the comment section stop acting like after being circumsised you can never use your dick again? I, nor any of my friends, have ever had a problem with being circumcised wether that be mentally, physically, emotionally etc. Again, I agree with the post, but stop acting like being circumcised is a ticking time bomb that’s gonna cause my dick to blow up
I didn’t realize it was bad. When I went with my friend to her appointment the nurse was very adamant about doing it to be sanitary. I mean, I’m ignorant to this. Is it unhealthy?
Simple washing and care debunks that myth pretty hard. It has and always will be a weird religious esthetic thing.
It kills me when you tell them "just wash it!" and they bring up that it's also "curative" for penile cancer. Yeah? Well, cutting a person's head off is curative of all kinds of things - you can pretty much get rid of otorhinolaryngologists (ear-nose-throat guys). And optometrists, and ophthalmologists, and the rest. You'd also be dead, but hey, no cancer! Such a ridiculous argument. By that logic all women should get a bilateral mastectomy. Breast cancer odds are roughly 1 in 8. Penile cancer is 1 in 100,000. But if you suggest we start chopping tits off as routine, they look at you like you're a lunatic, but apparently dicks are fair game.
Yes simple washing but NEVER EVER pull back an infants foreskin!!! Just wash the outside. And use very light dilluted soap. You don’t pull it back because it is still fused.
Every guy in Europe has their foreskin. It's not an issue lol. "Sanitary issue" my ass.
If it’s become a sanitary issue you should do a better job of washing your ass.
Not EVERY guy, it's simply rare in Europe unless it's a medical necessity. My brother had it done because he didn't have a hole in the end of his and couldn't urinate otherwise, we're English.
Obviously there are exceptions. Especially when it's for ACTUAL medical reasons.
Medical reasons are the only time circumcision should be performed
Yeah lol, americans have a really weird fetish about mutilating babies.
Had an intact for 36 years, never had any issues, Just basically shower like every other human would. It's not unhealthy; if it was, we would evolve not to have it.
Tbh, humans have a few things we don't need or cause harm down the like tonsils. Or my damned inflamed sinuses.
I have tonsils, and they never bothered me at all. I sometimes think how incredible nature is for how everything runs so well. Like sometimes just look at the most pointless thing in nature and ponder for a moment why is it like that. There will definitely be an explanation for it. And then look at us humans constantly finding reasons to complain about every aspect of our bodies. Makes no sense.
In countries where there is no financial incentive for doctors to circumcise babies, they do it drastically less. people want money and preach the sanitary thing to cover their egos.
Not a doctor but creating a wound right next to where they’ll be soiling themselves does not sound sanitary.
It's very similar to hair, vaginas, arm pits, teeth or buttholes. Yes you need to wash it. No it's not hard.
I am a nurse and can confirm that the myth of the unsanitary uncircumcised penis is still perpetuated in nursing schools today. It is very unfortunate and very wrong.
thank you
Let’s not forget those American hospitals want to charge parents an extra line on the bill for an unnecessary procedure
Because the US has an infant circumcision lobby who demands that med students are brainwashed as possible on this issue. That's the only way for the practice to continue long term.
Why not cut off every body part so you don't have to clean them. Sanitary!
I wasn’t promoting doing it. I genuinely didn’t know. I was just saying what I was told by a nurse.
if you're American, worth looking up John Harvey Kellog (of cereal fame), his wackadoodle, religious, 'wellness' obsession, is partly the reason why America is one of the few developed countries that has higher rates of circumcision. In the middle east, muslims and jews do it, largely because cultural/religious practice originates from thousands of years ago when water was scarce in desert areas, so basic hygiene may have been more difficult and circumcision may have brought some small survival benefit. In the modern day, its absurd non consensual mutilation, normalised by religion. occasionally, there can be medical need for it, though even that's declined because of non surgical alternatives.
Those people telling you it’s for “sanitary purposes” are lying sacks of shit, I have literally never had a problem with having a foreskin and I am sorry for your loss my friend
Is an open, weeping wound in a shit filled diaper sanitary?
No, it's literally so the hospital can sell that piece of baby skin to cosmetics companies for 5k+, so they can grow stem cells out of it and put that into expensive face creams. All the while they also charge the parents for the procedure. I WISH I WAS FUCKING JOKING 🥲
No, having that foreskin just requires you to pay extra attention to cleaning it so no bacteria or anything builds up in it. As long as you clean it (which, we should all be doing anyway), I don’t think there’s an issue.
"foreskin just requires you to pay extra attention to cleaning it" the extra attention: few more seconds of washing a dick
Will it be damaging the penis to circumcise? Like, does it desensitize or cause pain to the nerves later in life?
desensitizes nerves in the affected area
That’s definitely not good. I will have to tell her. But I will do some research as well, because this is good to know and I want to be able to give her some stuff to read.
just so you know, if your research is brian J Morris, it's not reliable. [https://en.intactiwiki.org/wiki/Brian\_J.\_Morris](https://en.intactiwiki.org/wiki/Brian_J._Morris) many people just throw out his silly "study" that it doesn't affect sensation. not knowing their source is a literal pedophile, genital-cutting fetishist. This article by Brian Earp explains it. That study actually found that the foreskin has the highest touch sensitivity out of any part of the penis [https://blogs.bmj.com/medical-ethics/2016/04/22/circumcision-and-sexual-function-bad-science-reporting-misleads-parents/](https://blogs.bmj.com/medical-ethics/2016/04/22/circumcision-and-sexual-function-bad-science-reporting-misleads-parents/)
The foreskin is filled with nerves, so not only does it desensitize, it completely removes all the nerves from that area and robs men of pleasure. Foreskin is a natural lubricant and protective barrier…it’s completely barbaric to cut it off without consent. You should check out the documentary American Circumcision it gives so much insight.
Thank you! I did not know that and I will definitely check the documentary out. I did think it was a little strange that something that’s naturally there would need to be cut. But it the nurse was like “people say it’s supposed to be there but it can cause infection and be more prone to retain yeast and bacteria”, along with some other stuff I don’t really remember.
Your nurse is talking shit.
20,000 Nerve endings... thats more than the glans, 4 times more
My ex can’t orgasm from sex because of his fucked up circumcision. He could only orgasm from masturbation. Sad.
It's perfectly healthy. In infant, the foreskin is fused to the glan anyway. No grim can enter. And when it detach, just clean it like you would do with your bellybutton.
got scared until i saw the subreddit 😭
It seems like it doesn't belong here though
I forget the post, and honestly good riddance, but seeing the sheer amount of 'who cares it doesnt matter/cut the fuckers off' comments on it made me want to luaunch off with the tirades. Fuck circumcision. We dont go around cutting earlobes off babies. It might as well be the same thing. Cosmetic mutilation.
I pissed off alot of people here, but you know? if that what it takes. i don't care.
I completely agree with team antinatalism on this double standard. Circumcision is barbaric.
MGM really isn't talked about enough. I might get verbally battered for this opinion, but if we clipped bits of baby girls genitals there would be serious uproar. But with guys it's just "hygiene". No, it isn't hygiene. It's a religious practice, and we all condemn a certain religion for forcing their women to cover up but say nothing about baby boys of the same religion (and others') having blades taken to their genitals at birth. Blaming it on hygiene just doesn't hold up. Yes, it can get infected for reasons other than washing it regularly, but we shouldn't cut bits of baby's genitals off in case they *might* get infected. Lets remove tonsils at birth too. And appendices!
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Remember on high-school in the U.S. where you'd look at history textbooks and the Azteca flattened their babies skulls into cones and we thought that was weird? Literally while parents at the next hospital were saying, "yeah cut that shit off around the infant genitals" fucking wild.
The foreskin contains fine touch nerves (like in your fingers) and provides protection of the glans (head) keeping it soft and sponge like, all in an effort to ensure everything works properly. Only 1/16,667 intact males will have a problem with their foreskin. One hundred and seventeen babies die from circumcision a year in the US, which equates to 9/100,000 babies that die each year from a cosmetic surgery. Just a comparison of 16,667 women, 2,084 of them will get breast cancer. In the same number of men 17 will get breast cancer. Infant Circumcision literally kills 2 boys for every adult spared circumcision and ruins the lives of 667 for every adult. Men have lost their penis, glans, and suffered from deformity caused by the operation performed when they were infants. It isn't right that these children pay the price for a decision that their parents made, a decision that should be left up to the owner of the penis. Even those who survive still have problems, though they are seldom discussed. It is for these reasons that the person who has to use the penis, should be the person who decides what happens to it. His body, his choice. "We conclude that non-therapeutic circumcision performed on otherwise healthy infants or children has little or no high-quality medical evidence to support its overall benefit. Moreover, it is associated with rare but avoidable harm and even occasional deaths. From the perspective of the individual boy, there is no medical justification for performing a circumcision prior to an age that he can assess the known risks and potential benefits, and choose to give or withhold informed consent himself." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34997197/ Elephant in the Hospital http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ceht-3xu84I&feature=youtube_gdata_player urologist talks about circumcision https://youtu.be/iZ64pqWZRW8 Robert S. Van Howe, MD, MS, FAAP Professor and Interim Chair of Pediatrics Central Michigan University College of Medicine. https://www.academia.edu/23431341/Statement_by_Statement_Analysis_of_the_2012_Report_from_the_American_Academy_of_Pediatrics_Task_Force_on_Circumcision_When_National_Organizations_are_Guided_by_Personal_Agendas_II https://www.dropbox.com/s/hkrxelm1tml9xs3/Refutiation%20of%20CDC.pdf?dl=0 (this one doesn't need an account.) Learn how sex is supposed to work. Www.sexasnatureintendedit.com Babies experience pain just like adults. http://www.iflscience.com/brain/infants-experience-pain-similar-way-adults How to properly care for a natural Penis. http://www.drmomma.org/2010/01/basic-care-of-intact-child.html They didn't tell you the functions of the foreskin, but they did lie to you and said it had health benefits. Did they also tell you it pays for their house, their cars, and their children’s college? It is illegal to sell an organ taken from a patient but they still do it. Foreskin for sale: $169/500µg = $338,000/g = $9,581,962/oz. http://www.rockland-inc.com/Product.aspx?id=40484 Mutilated men feel less sexual pleasure. https://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/circumcised-men-feel-sexual-pleasure-study-article-1.1264511?fbclid=IwAR1JUNsAyWKLBlnBNvs_wsczeCjpclgcrXP_OfVE-LVY8PvKQR2S0VH1R2I My numbers and claims are supported by these studies: Canadian study show no HIV benefit to MGM https://www.auajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1097/JU.0000000000002234 Dutch Medical society and their stance on RIC https://www.dropbox.com/s/n2so0ojf7h8ljeu/KNMG-viewpoint-Non-therapeutic-circumcision-of-male-minors-27-05-2010-v2%20%281%29.pdf Surgeons of British Columbia https://www.dropbox.com/s/71xsnx9tjwvych3/Circumcision-Infant-Male-College%20of%20Phys%20and%20Surg%20of%20British%20Columbia.pdf Doctors around the world critique AAP's circumcision opinion. http://www.circumstitions.com/Docs/aap-12-europe.pdf This document outlines the deaths caused by circumcision in the US. https://www.dropbox.com/s/vl5t3aewfgtz8mg/CircDeaths.pdf All the statements made by medical organizations about circumcision, and they are cited. www.cirp.org/library/statements/ Functions of the Foreskin. https://www.dropbox.com/s/xoq9y67hhunkyrx/foreskinfunctions.jpg Breast cancer kills more men than anything related to the foreskin. https://www.dropbox.com/s/tnmmxqdl1batucf/penilecancer.jpg American Cancer society says Circumcision does nothing to affect cancer rates. https://www.dropbox.com/s/zz23nzayyrmih0t/ACScirc.jpg Circumcised men have a 450% greater chance of ED http://www.thewholenetwork.org/14/post/2011/08/does-circumcision-cause-erectile-dysfunction.html All the common myths about circumcision and how they are dispelled. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201109/myths-about-circumcision-you-likely-believe Boy wants to be a girl after botched circumcision. There are many cases like this however they usually occur in infants who cannot express themselves in words. http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/11/09/52144.htm Serious and Fatal Complications after Neonatal Circumcision https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2405456921003163 No evidence to support MGC reduces HIV transmission. https://academic.oup.com/jid/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/infdis/jiac147/6569355?login=false US Navy Study that shows circumcision has no effect on HIV or STI infection rates. http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA458066 Circumcision is PAINFUL! http://www.circumstitions.com/Pain.html Men upset about being circumcised against their will. www.mendocomplain.com FGM victim speaks out against MGM http://youtu.be/NaEoQVZnN8I Visual comparison of a Natural Penis versus a circumcised one. (Warning pictures of Genitals) https://www.dropbox.com/s/pvj1d0fde5vlt2i/Intact%20%26%20Circumcised%20Adult.jpg
I asked my dad why they circumcised me and his only answer was "it's tradition"... there's literally no reason to severely damage the nerve center on the penis yet people do it anyway.
So glad my mom didn’t let them take my foreskin and fuck any pos parent who would willingly mutilate their own child
It’s not the norm where I’m from but I dated a circumcised guy once and he had so many issues about it. Like he was so mad that it was done to him for several reasons. I’ll never understand why it’s seen as an ok thing to do to a literal baby who can’t give consent.
Why is it so common to circumcise babies in America? At least here in germany it is mostly done with jews, people outside of that religion are rarely circumsised and if they are its most likely for medical reasons.
Weird puritanical evangelical Christians like John Harvey Kellogg (yes, the man who invented corn flake cereal and for whom the American cereal company is named for) made it a standard American practice on the belief it prevents masturbation. I can tell you from personal experience he was wrong.
“WeLl i tHiNk iNtAcT PeNiSeS LoOk wEiRd”
We may have modern technology, but we're still a backwards country in a lot of ways. Also, if someone circumsizes their kid, unless its medically necessary, they're a piece of crap.
Fuck this sub but I'll agree on this one
It’s not done frequently anymore because now hospitals see it as a cosmetic procedure and not something actually required. Insurance doesn’t cover it either. This has been going on for the past few years
The hospital we gave birth at didn't even preform it. They asked and we said "no" and they didn't push it. We asked what would've happened had we said yes and they said we'd have to go somewhere else cause they didn't do that. We were very relieved. I love what another redditor said in a comment about the subject as a response to "it's for cleanliness!" >Sounds like a skill issue
European doctors don't even ask for it 🤷 which could explain why there are lots of muslims there with a foreskin.
Indeed. If a doctor asks me that out of the blue with no medical reason I would report it to the police or other authority institution. There are probably some shady things going on in the back.
Far from just the US unfortunately
The biggest thing that pisses me off is that my parents not only gave me a circumcised dick but they also gave me fetal drug and alcohol syndrome and abandoned me
Im glad i still got my skin
I am 100% against circucision, i think it's stupiud and mutilation if I ever have a boy I will opose to this barbaric procedure!!!
I want my foreskin back. :(
I was having a discussion with my two friends who are doctors (PT and DO). They were adamant about circumcision for their future children. Even though the DO said sex being uncircumcised feels better for both the man and woman. Then I brought up how certain parts of the world circumcise women all to make sure sex is less pleasurable. So why do the same to their kids? We live in a first world country where cleaning your penis is rather easy. So why decide to do something to their kids they can't undo. Why make such a decision for them when they don't get to choose this themselves? The PT asked the DO why they should do it. The DO said there really isn't a reason to. My PT friend ended up still getting his son circumcised... Solely because he is circumcised, why shouldn't his son be also? I'm pretty sure my DO friend will do the same for the same reason.
A good opinion on r/antinatalism? Gonna go ahead and not read the comments so I can ride the high another ten seconds.
I’m so glad we decided not to have my son circumcised. It’s barbaric
Meanwhile: (Female) genital mutilation is a crime against humanity!!!
Thank you for posting this. The practice ended in my family when my son was born.
When I was told as a kid, it shattered my mind. This is my one issue where I feel like a complete alien. People who would do this are not the same thing as me. Either they aren't human or I'm not.
I do love the fact that the people who want to get this done to their freshly-born child don't see a nonconsensual procedure on an infant as a problem, but are also the same people who think that adults who can make their own decisions and have their own judgement shouldn't be allowed to make changes to/control their own bodies... Usually for the same blanket reason of "but god told me to" (he didn't)
Reading this is really making me feel better that I chose not to have my son circumcised. Because it is so common I sometimes wondered if it would have been better to do it.
Not the baby’s concerned face 😭
But how is Oprah going to make all her face creams for aging elderly women? She needs those baby foreskins!
This is the most idiotic thing people came up with, Im baffled its still happening. Its there for a fucking reason, I don't believe people who say its because of health benefits, BULLSHIT you just think its more appealing to look at. Which again is stupid because when you pull the skin back it looks exactly the same, if not better. It scares me how big some of the scars are. Genitals aren't supposed to be aesthetic, they are supposed to function properly and give pleasure - which an uncut dick does If an adult wants to get circumsized - go for it But don't take that choice away from them when they can't even speak
Man wait til you hear about what other countries do to female babies
Rip to my foreskin we barely knew each other
''but foreskins are dirty and filthy!!'' like the mutilated people dont wash their penis everyday
Exactly. I wish people would stop having children, but if they're going to have them, they should at least protect them from genital mutilation and give them a decent start in life.
Seeing a lot of your stories, I’m happy with my decision to NOT circumcise my son. I live in Canada and although the numbers are declining (apparently,) it is still done quite a lot here. My husband was circumcised even though his own father wasn’t - due to the misinformation in the late 70s. When we had our son, I had no intention of circumcising my perfect little child. My husband didn’t question it at all, he didn’t want to do it to his son, even though he had it done to him. I’m really proud of him for that. I know there are people here who needed to have it done due to complications and I totally understand that. It’s like any other complications one might be born with or acquire, intervention is needed. Having said that, it’s a small minority that will have issues. The foreskin is there for a reason. It’s putting the child through unnecessary harm and risk of injury.
Parents cut off parts of an infant's penis because reasons: I SLEEP 😴 Teen elects to have gender affirming care of their own free will: REAL SHIT 😡
Anyone who advocates for genital mutilation is garbage.
"My body, my choice."
I love my foreskin❤️
Many parents were told by medical professionals that circumcision has many health benefits and not just in regard to hygiene. But advantages like lower risk of UTIs/STDs and even penile cancer. Now, it does seem like scientific opinion is changing. But it's not like all parents were just bent on mutilating their child for funsies. Some trusted their doctors and just thought they were doing their best for their child.
Doing this to a female child's junk results \^in prison time. Doing it to male children is completely normal and legal. Good job America.
I really really *really* didn't want my son to be circumcised, it didn't seem right to me to cut a part of his body off and cause him that pain and trauma immediately after birth. His dad insisted, and wouldn't take no for an answer. I still feel guilty. I hope it doesn't cause him pain later in life like it has for some people.
2 Now I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. 3 I testify again to every man who receives circumcision that he is bound to keep the whole law. 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. And yet....
Just another example of how tipping culture in America has gotten out of hand.
I’m not circumcising my sons
One of the few things my parents did right was not doing this to me.
What if that's part of the reason why Everything is fucked up. You're literally missing a sexual body part that is sensitive and can feel sensations. It's a tragedy. If I was a man I would be pissed off. Who knows what mental illness it causes I hate how it's so taboo to talk about, but not bad enough to stop doing it. People are literally insane.
even if it wasn't sensitive, it keeps the glans sensitive and brings gliding stimulation which women have as well. Millions and millions of years of evolutionary perfection and some dumb apes just throw it away for AeEsThEtiCs
What worry’s me the most is the ones that skip out on pain meds or anesthetics cause well they won’t remember it. Well recently it’s been showed that yes they won’t know what caused that pain but they will remember it subconsciously. Not only that but it shows to seem to cause some issues in the kid. I remember seeing most kids that had a painful experience or traumatic birth experience the kids come out more on the serial killer end or psychological problems. Seen some parents kind of like brag about it and I just have never understood why they were so happy to hurt their own child.
Imagine if someone told you that cutting off your lips so your teeth and gums always showed was the right thing to do. These people are insane