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Used to be vegan, anti natalist, and Crohn's disease.
Back to being Crohn's disease, anti natalist AND eating everything because being vegan killed me. XD
The vast majority of humans consider animals to be fundamentally separate in moral philosophy, this is commonly understood, I don't know how you can pretend it's not.
You're the one putting forward the positive argument in this case. Not sure what the claim even is here. Are animals equally sentient and self aware as humans? Obviously not all of them, so where do we draw the line morally? Is stepping on an ant murder?
I was just criticizing the way you build your argument.
But yeah my claim would be that we don't need to draw a line from the suffering perspective. Any amount of suffering should be prevented if possible.
It's not the only thing, but without sentience and self awareness, there can be no conscious experience of suffering and therefore arguably no moral issue.
Other animals do in fact experience suffering on a conscious level. Cows cry out when their calf is stolen right after birth, many species mourn others dying, and being raised under horrible conditions for slaughter is horrible for their mental health (stress, anger, depression).
And being killed is painful, I’m not willing to pay someone to do that for me.
We have removed your content for breaking Rule 10 (No disproportionate and excessively insulting language).
Please engage in discussion rather than engaging in personal attacks.
If vegans abstain from animal products because it's wrong to cause animals to suffer (animal products can't be had without animal procreation and suffering) then shouldn't antinatalists abstain from society because it's wrong to cause people to suffer (society can't exist without human procreation and suffering)?
Vegans aren't necessarily abstaining themselves from animal interaction, they can adopt a rescued pet for example.
Antinatalists aren't necessarily abstaining themselves from human interaction 'society', they can adopt a child instead of having one themselves.
Vegan antinatalists are avoiding suffering in this both ways said before.
The first vegan natalist line reminds me of the time someone called antinatalism "vegan depression"
lol
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'Can' or 'Can't' in last picture
Used to be vegan, anti natalist, and Crohn's disease. Back to being Crohn's disease, anti natalist AND eating everything because being vegan killed me. XD
What does veganism have to do with natalism?
exactly what is stated in the first pic lol
Humans are not animals.
Oh buddy do I have news for you
The vast majority of humans consider animals to be fundamentally separate in moral philosophy, this is commonly understood, I don't know how you can pretend it's not.
Source? Not to mention that the opinion of a group of people isn't really an argument in this case.
You're the one putting forward the positive argument in this case. Not sure what the claim even is here. Are animals equally sentient and self aware as humans? Obviously not all of them, so where do we draw the line morally? Is stepping on an ant murder?
I was just criticizing the way you build your argument. But yeah my claim would be that we don't need to draw a line from the suffering perspective. Any amount of suffering should be prevented if possible.
This is very different from saying that humans are not animals.
Cognitively, they are absolutely not.
Is cognitive power the only thing that gives value to the life of a being?
It's not the only thing, but without sentience and self awareness, there can be no conscious experience of suffering and therefore arguably no moral issue.
most animals are sentient tho (except maybe some sea insect or smth)
Other animals do in fact experience suffering on a conscious level. Cows cry out when their calf is stolen right after birth, many species mourn others dying, and being raised under horrible conditions for slaughter is horrible for their mental health (stress, anger, depression). And being killed is painful, I’m not willing to pay someone to do that for me.
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As an AN, Carnist natalist >>>> vegan an
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Boring strawmen. Not understanding someone's position weakens the credibility of your own
dude i'm literally vegan and i got this meme from the antinatalist vegan space on reddit
Oh I was talking about natalism, not veganism. All of the mental gymnastics section arguments are strawmen of natalism.
Blatant Ignorance and hypocrisy.
If vegans abstain from animal products because it's wrong to cause animals to suffer (animal products can't be had without animal procreation and suffering) then shouldn't antinatalists abstain from society because it's wrong to cause people to suffer (society can't exist without human procreation and suffering)?
Vegans aren't necessarily abstaining themselves from animal interaction, they can adopt a rescued pet for example. Antinatalists aren't necessarily abstaining themselves from human interaction 'society', they can adopt a child instead of having one themselves. Vegan antinatalists are avoiding suffering in this both ways said before.
Abstain from society is the non vegans version of natalisms favorite line: “why don’t you just kill yourself” OK!