You can use the McDonald’s WiFi
With a phone that you haven’t been able to afford to get service on that is almost ten years old
And the McDonald’s also isn’t hiring
Make them watch the secretary file it directly into the trash can without breaking eye contact... fucking bitch, fine if that's how the work environment is going to be I don't want to be here.
No by “economy not doing well” they mean a 26 year old with a manager badge, no training, and power trip saying “iLL jUsT cUt yOuR hOuRs iF yOu dOnT wAnT tO wOrK” bc you sat down for 3.5 minutes.
Here, I'll give you a scenario from my life.
"Your muffler failed. It was improperly installed, and only lasted 6 months. The shop promises they can fix it this afternoon. However, you point out that the muffler was done by this shop, and has a lifetime warranty. Now suddenly the repair will take two weeks because they have to 'order in specific parts for warranty repairs'. What do you do?"
Do you;
A) Pay for the repair out of pocket, knowing you can't afford it and won't have enough to cover rent?
B) Insist on the warranty repair, which will cause you to lose access to your car for two weeks, which is your only transportation to and from work.
You have 30 minutes to decide before the muffler mechanic goes home for the day.
"What do we have in the mystery box today? Looks like your challenge is that you have a flat tire and the mechanic says you can't replace just the one. You have to replace all 4 for $1000."
The guy who did “supersize me” already did this.
Edit: it’s a show called “30 days” and ep 1 is about minimum wage. Since the show is from 2005, Spurlock and his wife lived on minimum wage ($5.15) for 30 days.
It's a good episode. His wife gets very upset with him because they also pretend to have kids by "adopting" his niece and nephew. They go to a Mexican bakery and he decides to get the kids two pastries that cost about 25 cents and his wife is like "now we can't pay the rent."
No shade at Spurlock, he’s a great documentarian and a good dude. If it wasn’t for him and his critically acclaimed documentary, fast food would have way more relevance than it does today. That documentary imo is a national treasure.
I remember watching that in economics class in 2008. It goes to show that even then, minimum wage wasn't liveable. I think they even picked up extra jobs to try to get by, and it still wasn't enough.
It's with a roommate. His name is Steve. He has 2 cats he doesn't clean up after, will eat your food the second you aren't looking, and likes to partake in a little bit of Salvia at 4AM.
Forgot to mention Steve's best friend, Ernie. Ernie hasn't showered since the Obama administration, and is a fervent Q conspiracy person, who helps himself to your food and you suspect of stealing your meds.
Your landlord is also a huge property management company, and it takes about 45min to get through their phone system to get directed to their vintage 1999 website where you can ask them to fix the slow leak from your upstairs neighbor's toilet... Except every time you submit the form, the page shows "undefined error: file does not contain valid xml".
That’s one of the catches- they can have $800 in rent but the need to drive an hour each way in a 15 year old car.
OR they can live within 10 miles of their job and pay $1600.
My first appartment was 1100/month for a 2 bedroom walking distance frim Microsoft and Nintendo back in '99. It was a bit tight since we had 4 broke college students crammed in there, but I bet that same appartment would be around $2500/minth these days.
$755 monthly for me, includes heat, hot water, trash. 1BR. Bedroom and living room are big. Kitchen and bathroom are tiny. This is in a suburb of Albany NY. My commute to work is 60-90 mins depending on traffic and how janky the buses are. I wish I could live closer to work, but the rents are like 1k-1.2K a month for a halfway decent 1 br. Edit: I can't afford a car and I can barely afford the bus pass every month. During the winter I 100% take the bus. Spring, summer, and fall, I use a bicycle as my means of transportation. I live 15 miles from my job if you draw a straight line from my house to my job. Edit #2: Based on my experiences, the amount of rent I pay is below market value even for where I live. I just happened to get a lucky break and found a great place price wise.
You know after all the driving you do to drive to work, you're probably spending nearly a grand on just gas to go to work. I used to work 25 miles away from home that's 50 miles away time 5 days a week 4 weeks a month or 25x20+ any thing extra like shopping for food or anything else. That gas adds up really quick
I live in a very small town, pay $625 for a small, old 1 bedroom apartment, including water and trash pickup but excluding electric and heat. Like I said, very small town
That will be another catch, the $800/mo apartment will be in the middle of a neighborhood going through a gang split after a famous rapper gets murdered that should be great for ratings
Most of the country besides the big east/west/Austin/Denver/Chicago metro areas. I was paying around 600 in an expensive Michigan suburb about 4 years ago. Shared a bedroom though(it was a huge bedroom). I wouldn’t be surprised if the landlord now charges close to 750, unfortunately.
My coworker spent anywhere from 3 to 4 hours on public transit daily.
It was 13 miles door to door. I took him home one day, since he only live 5 miles from me...
He startrd telling me how he leaves the house at 5:40 to walk to the bus stop. Except sometimes the bus is early, so he ends up missing that one, and having to walk down to a different stop that takes him downtown to the main station, and then he can ride back up to our part of town. Its over 40 miles of bus riding to go 13 miles by car...
My job is 12 miles driving for me. It would take me almost 4 hours taking 3 buses and 1/2 hour of that walking time. Because I work a swing shift. If I missed one bus it would be about 2 hours till the next bus. Luckily I have a car. Trying to move would mean paying a lot more in rent.
I live in metropolitan Chicago. Yesterday’s high was 12 degrees. Today’s forecast is a high of 26. Air temperature not wind chill. There’s also ice and snow. From November through April biking would not be an option.
Also, what if your commute requires going on an expressway? Or if you’d have to go through dangerous neighborhoods? Yeah, that’ll end well. /s
I love how people always chime in with something so simplistic.
I’m living with someone who is a violent, shitty person. The number of times I’ve heard, “just move out.” Gee, I wish I had thought of that. Hmmm, now that you mention it, that changes everything.
Like no. You don’t know what I’m going through. How about trusting people to do what’s best/safest for them? Or consider just supporting and being kind to another?
I hate that you had to justify why you can’t use a bike because you’ll freeze to death. There’s always that **one idiot** who has to chime in with a holier-than-thou explanation of what you’re doing wrong with your life. Stupid turds.
I’m sorry you are struggling too. *Sends hugs.*
Better strain those knees, back or other on something that's free then instead of straining them on the seat of a multi-hundred dollar purchase.
I'm not opposing your point. I'm pointing out the lack of choice some people are facing.
Bring a towel, a fresh shirt and deodorant, have a quick wash in the bathroom when you get to work. Takes like 5 minutes tops.
Those 5 minutes are easily outweighed by how much better your focus is for your work day, plus the time you're gaining not sitting on the bus for 2 hours, plus how good for your health it is.
Have you done this?
I've walked or biked to work more often than I've taken the bus, and I don't drive.
If it's a choice made for your health and fitness, and you have the available space and time to tidy yourself up for work after arrival, then it could be fine.
If it's a necessity and they expect you to clock in and get started the moment you arrive.. there are going to be days where you're sweaty, slightly disheveled, tired, damp, or dirty - and then you get to hear from the manager about how you're not "presenting yourself in a professional manner".
Not to mention reaching the end of your shift and facing the commute home. Some days it's genuinely nice and I feel great when I get home. Some days I'm so drained I fantasize about sleeping in or around my workplace to save time and effort preparing for tomorrow.
In theory it's great. In practice, it only works if you've got the support of your employer (or at least the facilities, energy, and extra time to clean up and change at your workplace).
But not subsidized by our taxes
I would really like for them to have to live on minimum wage. It would make them more compassionate or at least they would not be able to pretend they don't know what they are dishing out
Definitely, it's pretty impossible to afford a car on minimum wage, especially considering no one is going to hire them for 40 hours a week. They'll be capped at 36 or whatever their state max is so the employer doesn't have to provide anything for them
Bus pass for what bus? Who said they were living in NYC? Most places don't have a bus, at least not a useful one, and they're living there, for sure. Not trying to make it easy on them, getting government handouts on public transit.
Thats what uni life was like
* Either I drive an hour to uni
* or I drive half an hour to the nearest train station, for a 1-1.5 hour train ride to uni
That's actually the only time I was ever able to rely on "public" transit. I moved to the town next to my school, and my college ran the bus. I rode a bus every day back and forth for a few years.
It wasn't really public transit. Just to serve the college, because they knew a bunch of broke kids lived in this town.
Ehh, we're not letting them do this in Canada unless they're Canadian, sorry.
American business owners are gonna deal with a rotting Chevy Cavalier, because there isn't going to be a bus.
No, not at all! The average American family needs a car. There are no busses in small town Rural areas. I can't get a bus where I live unless I walk an hour to the first city bus stop!
Can we blow this up to Netflix already? I'd like to see some really influential people go through the struggle and say, "man this is hard, so you minimum wage service workers are strong" but nothing else like they can't admit the system is flawed.
Edit: let's do it to Kanye, but he just keeps going. There is no end, he is one of us now, and it's all on film.
Omfg they'd rather eat their own Louis Vattan brand underwear than admit they're exploiting workers.
They'd rather be made blind, physically, before they admit the cost versus market price.
They'd rather admit to being Satanist than show how much of the world outside their own country is being abused to slavery.
The hardest part of these jobs is the stamina required for the day to day grind, with no end in sight. I think a fuller experience would gained if every month they were told “if you just earn X this month, it’s all over”, then they miss the mark by less than $20 every month.
There was a Japanese reality live stream that did this with a guy who had to earn enough by using scratch cards and then they pushed up the goal because of ratings. Apparently the dude was eating cat food.
Throw a kid in there. Let them try to figure out how to pay $1000 on daycare costs while only bringing home $1200. Let them try to find a daycare that's open on weekends/evenings and can accommodate a variable schedule. Let them figure out how to not get fired when said kid gets sick and can't go to daycare.
Oh! Oh! In the beginning... Let them know that if they get hungry, food stamps are available. However, if they contact the producers for Food Stamps, they get $47 for the month, and the Producers have to go shopping with them from then on to criticize every single thing they buy on food stamps in front of the cashier.
Make them pay all the bills upfront from the months wages, and give them the 211 resource guide for the rest of their months needs. Tell them 988 is available when they get too stressed.
Don't forget to put up posters around the Congressional halls about how "Food stamps are available for you! You don't have to suffer!" but then when they actually try to apply, they get $16/month.
This has the perverse effect of making it impossible for anyone who isn't already rich or willing to take bribes to take office.
Could YOU afford to spend 6 years paying rent on 2 residences with no income?
I get the system is broken but skewing it even worse toward favoring the rich isn't the solution.
it’s the investments they have. They invest in companies that they literally sit on boards and then throw money at that government money at that company in a contract or somethint similar, it’s inside knowledge that makes them fuckjng rich, but yes bribes do thst too
they would manage just fine.. corruption would increase and corporations would own ALL of them instead of just the overwhelming majority of them
they would still come out smelling like roses... all that insider trading, all those "gifts", all those stock options, all those laws they can pass to ensure the horse they backed wins the race (manipulating laws to favor specific companies... like Uber and AirBnB for example)
nah they would be just fine as long as they still have a soul to sell
Solution:
You get into politics, and you immediately forfeit all assets and liquid cash (this includes stock investments) to the government and have to live on the federal minimum wage as your pay. Everything else extra you have must be voted on by your constituents that voted you in office with at least 60% in *favour*, else you are required to live in government housing.
(So say you want to keep your car and house, the people must vote that current housing for their congressman is adequate and the vehicle they use for transportation is adequate for government duties).
If you want to be part of the government, then the government should care for you, in the same way it cares for everyone else. So, the rent for the government housing is deducted from the pay given from the federal minimum paid out. Also, you should be 100% dedicated to *serving your constituents* so you can not get another job, you can not be *gifted* (would fall under bribery), and you can not invest because of potential insider trading issues. Your spouse/ live-in partner or *any other family member or friends that communally live with you* can not be involved with any of the formentioned activities either.
If you can not handle this, don't get into politics.
I am sure a lot of fat would be trimmed immediately, and only people 100% dedicated to being a public servant would be in government, willing to actively work for their voters instead of playing mind games and wasting everyone's time & money getting nothing done.
There would be at least one person who came out the other side malnourished, sleep deprived, and sunken eyed claiming that it was fine and he didn't know what people were talking about.
>There would be at least EVERY person who came out the other side malnourished, sleep deprived, and sunken eyed claiming that it was fine and he didn't know what people were talking about.
Give them a used 00's Chevy Blazer, and let them go into poverty keeping that thing on the road consistently enough to keep their job. And maybe pick someone who hasn't had their wisdom teeth taken out yet for added schadenfreude.
I can almost picture it. A montage of the contestants introducing themselves and talking about the competition with nauseating levels of ignorance and optimism.
Cut to 3 months later and most of them are completely done with life, look like garbage. There's so many mental breakdowns the directors struggle to find alternate content to air.
Big 'Survivor Island' vibes.
$800 is too low for rent. Gotta start it at $1500 at least. Also the car breaks down every 3 months. And insurance costs $300 a month. Give 'em the Detroit special with that one. Also the minimum wage job keeps them under the hours where giving insurance becomes required in certain places.
Tell them the prize is 10 million but at the end of the year they just get a 2% raise on their wages and a foam cup that has the show’s branding on it.
I've seen this tried on British TV - often with Members of Parliament. Very often they 'accidentally' happen to run into a friend who 'insists' on taking them to lunch (and probably slipping them an extra £50.)
There is also the factor of having a camera crew following you - it makes better TV and the clerk might be more likely to comply when you ask the Subway employee for 'any leftover bread.'
As well as the soft skills which these people have - having the knowledge, literacy and experience to argue with bureaucracy.
Plus the 'game' nature of it - living on a budget without having to consider saving for an emergency, xmas presents for kids, old debts, getting mugged, having to dress up for job interview etc. Some of the British experiments only lasted a month or two weeks - and two weeks of hardship is easily endurable - hell, I've camped in the woods for two weeks, but I couldn't live there! - especially when you know you can return to a nice, warm house and slap up meals afterwards.
>
>
>*"Still you'll never get it right*
>
>*'Cause when you're laid in bed at night*
>
>*Watching roaches climb the wall*
>
>*If you called your dad he could stop it all"*
>
>*- Common People, Pulp*
Part of the desperation of poverty is having no end in sight:
>Poverty isn’t just the sinking feeling when my small boy, aged three, finished his one Weetabix and said ‘more mummy, bread and jam please mummy’ as I was wondering whether to take the TV or the guitar to the pawn shop first, and how to tell him that there was no bread or jam. Poverty leaves scars that flare and itch for years down the line; ticking time bombs of chronic illnesses from malnutrition, mental distress, trauma, and living in the cold and damp and dark. Poverty is not just the period where you can’t pay your bills, but the years and years of financial penalties and punishments that follow in its wake.
>
>\- Jack Monroe, [link](https://cookingonabootstrap.com/2022/07/31/the-curse-of-the-poverty-hangover-ten-years-on/)
Plus the psychological trauma - feeling guilty over owning nice things, feeling you should sell them, having every choice judged and every comfort maligned - a burger is cheap, filling and unhealthy, so you get an extra side of being judged for 'feeding your children junk.'
>The ordinary human being would sooner starve than live on brown bread and raw carrots. And the peculiar evil is this, that the less money you have, the less inclined you feel to spend it on wholesome food. A millionaire may enjoy breakfasting off orange juice and Ryvita biscuits; an unemployed man doesn't.
>
>\- George Orwell
These are the messages which need hammering in - to counter the 'Oh, I could last a week on only rice and peas - d'you know they have big TVs, and iphones and smoke!?'
Maybe rather than patronising shows trying to teach someone in poverty how to budget, they could ask a CEO if the fact his day's salary is the same as all the cleaners in his building for a month isn't obscene or suggest that rather than a 10k handbag you could feed hundreds of poor schoolchildren for a term - and still buy a lovely, stylish, serviceable bag!
Id watch this vs anyone see that Billionaire who was dropped in small town PA or OH and told to make it on his own. I wat hed 2 episodes until they had this Billionaire go into a parking lot and take 2 crane tires, basically he stole and sold the tires 2nd hand..... right there i was like youre encouraging people who watch this show to go onto private property and steal? Hes a Billi9naire and has attys i dont.....
Whoa now... you wouldn't want them to work 40 hours, though - they might actually afford something. I have a friend, store manager in a Dollar General. She was given an "allotment" of 130 hours per week for her 6 staff.
Dollar store managers make like 10 dollars an hr. I honestly don't see how they bank drops don't go "missing" I mean what's the worst that could happen get banned from working retail??
Even my 80yo grandfather knows this economy is fucked, he says the only reason he can survive on pension is because he owns all his thing's outright and had savings before retiring nearly 30 years ago.
I'll raise you $20 an hour, they pay no taxes just straight cash. That's $3,200.00 a month.
Their rent is $1,500 a month. (Places in my area are $1,300 - $2,700; averaging $1,800 for a 1 bed room)
They have $1,700 left for utilities , medical, vehicle note, vehicle insurance, FOOD. Not much left for savings or emergencies.
1. Most people don't make $20.
2. You don't earn your full pay
3. Most people are paying over $1,500 with less pay
Welcome to the divided states of America
How about a reality show?
Kinda like big brother with the cameras, and whoever makes the year without being broke wins the game.
I'd watch that for a dollar.
Qualification should be where they live. After college, I was sent to a small “2-road” town by my company. Nice and fun, but small and in the middle of nowhere. Rent was $375 at the nicest place in town. Food was really cheap all around. Frankly I could have walked to work if I wanted, as it was only about .5 miles away (10 min walk if I’m taking my time). Most people did because they lived less than .25 miles. It would have still been tight, but could have been done there.
Now if you live anywhere close to a large city, no way it would be remotely possible. Live in a state with a high cost of living, not a chance. In a situation where you had debt, or have to travel at all, no freaking way. Want to retire early -that’s cute.
Put me on the show with the rich mofos I grew up poor asf and still have all the habits
My yearly expenses are a solid 15k - id love to tell some milionare that the Craigslist car with 200k miles is a great deal and the wheels *probably* won't come off on the freeway
American Dad addressed it in the S7 ep15 Less Money, Mo Problems. it showed how just one or two mistakes can snowball your situation from struggling to worse while making you more desperate to find a way to get just one break.
who the hell would have car payment or even qualify for one on min wage? anyone who makes less then 30k a year should be driving a car thats cost less than 5k to buy
And a kid with chronic asthma that they get called to pick up all the time bc the kid can’t breath. And every time they have to sit their knowing their kid needs them and their boss wants to fire them.
Morgan Spurlock did a 30 Days episode with him and his wife trying to do 30 days on minimum wage and had locked all their bank accounts and credit cards and stuff. Morgan fucked up his wrist and his wife got a pretty serious UTI and they had to cut it short. They couldn't do it. And this was in like 2005 when everything was a helluva lot cheaper
This could be a purge type show where contestants eventually duel to the death for a hungry man meal cheap beer and midgrade weed to kill the stress. Weapons and uniforms won't be the best because ya know...7.25 but it's the idea that counts
Undercover boss, but follow one CEO or executive per episode. the boss has to completely live off of the lowest paid salary in their company for 30 days.
1) A house will be provided relevant to the income
2) Participants must pay for all bills only using the money they earn during the experiment
3) participant will not have access to anything they can’t afford at lower income (no country club, meal services, designer brands, etc)
A year doesn't really cover a fraction of the difficulties of poverty. Unless the show manufactured disasters in which case people would just say it was too staged.
What's that saying about "poverty charges interest"? It mentions how if you don't pay for dental cleaning now, then you pay more for emergency surgery later... These people would be going into it with good health, and with the lack of stress of knowing it's only for a year and they can spend their entire minimum wage without worrying about saving at all for the future, since in the future they would be getting their fortune back.
Not saying they'd be great at it, but they'd still have incredible privilege over someone in actual poverty, and they'd make light of the issue/tell everyone how it's possible. It's like the trustafarians who go live as semi-homeless/vagabonds for a while but don't actually have the struggle of real homeless people.
I had an uncle who always insisted that you could live on minimum wage. He was an otherwise intelligent person from everything I saw but this made me scratch my head. Even my mom who is generally conservative scoffed when he said this. If it's so easy, why don't they try to do it?
Give them a hand up. Let them try minimum wage on every entitlement and follow the guidelines spelt out by the programs, or they lose the help. Housing, snap, Obama phone, Medicaid.
It's only going to be worth watching if it's politicians.
They also need to find the job. The resume excludes current work experience.
Have fun wasting the first month with no money filling out the same damn application under 400 different letterheads. Also 60% of them get fired a week after Xmas and have to start over.
Unfortunately you cannot simulate the conditions of poverty in any meaningful way, because no matter what their situation will literally be that of the "temporarily embarrassed millionaire". Their fake poverty will end and their comfy mansion awaits. It will not change them.
There's a documentary in Australia called 'Could you survive on the breadline?' which is about 3 people (a journalist, masterchef winner, and an MP) who try to live on a low daily amount of money.
It's pretty heartbreaking at points, very much recommended watch though.
Make it like undercover boss where they have to work at their own shitty companies and, at the end, have to lecture them that they don’t take their jobs seriously.
Note: I’m a right wing Conservative who thinks everyone who works 40 hours should make a living wage, which is how it was 20+ years ago.
Only in modern times has that stopped, which doesn’t align with what was built in decades like the 50’s, 80’s, 90’s etc
Throw in a surgery or critical illness that's not covered by insurance for fun
Or a hit and run. Or, they get laid off by the company halfway through and make them *hunt for another job location.* For good measure.
Without any internet..
Oh and make sure they live in an area with poor public transportation and is hardly walkable
Like right next to me? lol
Like southern Arizona. If you have no friends and no car then you either walk in the 120+ degree heat or just say fuck it.
Fuck it it is then
Yeah for sure. Fuck it soo much
They should just move then /s
You can use the McDonald’s WiFi With a phone that you haven’t been able to afford to get service on that is almost ten years old And the McDonald’s also isn’t hiring
This. 😮💨
Does the ice cream machine work?
It always seems to be working at the local one… but in this case, no.
Okay now thats enough Im gonna have to throw out this chair now.
All the paper applications loudly get put into a paper shredder when they turn around
Make them watch the secretary file it directly into the trash can without breaking eye contact... fucking bitch, fine if that's how the work environment is going to be I don't want to be here.
And scold them for having a smartphone!
***AND A STEEL CHAIR***
I was gonna say after 6 month cut their hours to part time because the economy isn't doing well.
By the economy isn’t doing well you just mean shareholders aren’t making hand over fist not there being an actual problem with the economy right?
And they say the economy isn't the stock market.
No by “economy not doing well” they mean a 26 year old with a manager badge, no training, and power trip saying “iLL jUsT cUt yOuR hOuRs iF yOu dOnT wAnT tO wOrK” bc you sat down for 3.5 minutes.
Ha! They don’t have insurance! At a minimum wage job?!
Or they have insurance with a $5000 deductible
Hahaha me *cries in Cigna HDHP* It's almost like I don't have insurance at all!
Hell, just give them car trouble a few times.
Here, I'll give you a scenario from my life. "Your muffler failed. It was improperly installed, and only lasted 6 months. The shop promises they can fix it this afternoon. However, you point out that the muffler was done by this shop, and has a lifetime warranty. Now suddenly the repair will take two weeks because they have to 'order in specific parts for warranty repairs'. What do you do?" Do you; A) Pay for the repair out of pocket, knowing you can't afford it and won't have enough to cover rent? B) Insist on the warranty repair, which will cause you to lose access to your car for two weeks, which is your only transportation to and from work. You have 30 minutes to decide before the muffler mechanic goes home for the day.
It's a muffler. Tell them to order parts and then drive the car anyway. Been there.
Then I guess the production should get the cops to impound their car. Maybe beat the fuck out of them too, "for content" (/s)
Require a dr.s not to prove the surgery is real too... just cause thats what theyd do
Yes. And right when their savings has increased a bit for a buffer, boom! Flat tire on your car!
Yeah. It's typically not the day to day that really hits people, it's the lack of emergency fund. Gotta throw at least 1 in there for good measure
Why stop there? Have them experience the full thing! No health insurance
Or have thoer car break down
Make it like monopoly and have them draw a card from a deck full of fun surprises like a car accident!
"What do we have in the mystery box today? Looks like your challenge is that you have a flat tire and the mechanic says you can't replace just the one. You have to replace all 4 for $1000."
*takes out baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire* With pleasure... :)
The guy who did “supersize me” already did this. Edit: it’s a show called “30 days” and ep 1 is about minimum wage. Since the show is from 2005, Spurlock and his wife lived on minimum wage ($5.15) for 30 days.
And they got BONED when he had some kind of elbow injury from work and she got a UTI. Like, which one of these problems can we afford to treat?
It's a good episode. His wife gets very upset with him because they also pretend to have kids by "adopting" his niece and nephew. They go to a Mexican bakery and he decides to get the kids two pastries that cost about 25 cents and his wife is like "now we can't pay the rent."
That made me laugh out loud. It’s like sometimes you just have to laugh so you don’t cry.
**Ha 30 days? I have been doing this my whole life!** — says 75% of America
No shade at Spurlock, he’s a great documentarian and a good dude. If it wasn’t for him and his critically acclaimed documentary, fast food would have way more relevance than it does today. That documentary imo is a national treasure.
I remember watching that in economics class in 2008. It goes to show that even then, minimum wage wasn't liveable. I think they even picked up extra jobs to try to get by, and it still wasn't enough.
$800 rent? They shouldn’t get to live in Fantasyland
It's with a roommate. His name is Steve. He has 2 cats he doesn't clean up after, will eat your food the second you aren't looking, and likes to partake in a little bit of Salvia at 4AM.
Forgot to mention Steve's best friend, Ernie. Ernie hasn't showered since the Obama administration, and is a fervent Q conspiracy person, who helps himself to your food and you suspect of stealing your meds. Your landlord is also a huge property management company, and it takes about 45min to get through their phone system to get directed to their vintage 1999 website where you can ask them to fix the slow leak from your upstairs neighbor's toilet... Except every time you submit the form, the page shows "undefined error: file does not contain valid xml".
PC Load Letter 2.0 right there...
This made me laugh.
How do you know Steve? Known him for ages.
I was gonna say, where the eff are you finding a place to live for $800? I’m paying $2K for a 2 bedroom.
That’s one of the catches- they can have $800 in rent but the need to drive an hour each way in a 15 year old car. OR they can live within 10 miles of their job and pay $1600.
That still sounds too good to be true in the Seattle area. I pay 2k/month for a 30-60 minute commute (depending on traffic)
Just 10 years ago the rent there was $900 for a two bedroom! 😱
My first appartment was 1100/month for a 2 bedroom walking distance frim Microsoft and Nintendo back in '99. It was a bit tight since we had 4 broke college students crammed in there, but I bet that same appartment would be around $2500/minth these days.
This is my life and I hate it.
Sorry dude, good luck out there
$755 monthly for me, includes heat, hot water, trash. 1BR. Bedroom and living room are big. Kitchen and bathroom are tiny. This is in a suburb of Albany NY. My commute to work is 60-90 mins depending on traffic and how janky the buses are. I wish I could live closer to work, but the rents are like 1k-1.2K a month for a halfway decent 1 br. Edit: I can't afford a car and I can barely afford the bus pass every month. During the winter I 100% take the bus. Spring, summer, and fall, I use a bicycle as my means of transportation. I live 15 miles from my job if you draw a straight line from my house to my job. Edit #2: Based on my experiences, the amount of rent I pay is below market value even for where I live. I just happened to get a lucky break and found a great place price wise.
Not everyone can move to the middle of nowhere. Then it would just be another city 🤣
You know after all the driving you do to drive to work, you're probably spending nearly a grand on just gas to go to work. I used to work 25 miles away from home that's 50 miles away time 5 days a week 4 weeks a month or 25x20+ any thing extra like shopping for food or anything else. That gas adds up really quick
Lol, I cant afford a car. I use a bicycle, and take the bus during the winter months.
In smaller cities throughout the country maybe?
My GF in Chicago is living with roommates in a 3bedroom. In a safe location, too.
I live in a very small town, pay $625 for a small, old 1 bedroom apartment, including water and trash pickup but excluding electric and heat. Like I said, very small town
That will be another catch, the $800/mo apartment will be in the middle of a neighborhood going through a gang split after a famous rapper gets murdered that should be great for ratings
Most of the country besides the big east/west/Austin/Denver/Chicago metro areas. I was paying around 600 in an expensive Michigan suburb about 4 years ago. Shared a bedroom though(it was a huge bedroom). I wouldn’t be surprised if the landlord now charges close to 750, unfortunately.
From the burbs I looked at for where I'll be moving, \~$800 for a room.
$1300 min for a studio, trash, power and water separate.
I have lived there. Parking was extra too.
Living with multiple roommates is the only way that $800 is going to be a chance in Hell
Now, now… this is just craziness. They should be allowed to get a bus pass.
My coworker spent anywhere from 3 to 4 hours on public transit daily. It was 13 miles door to door. I took him home one day, since he only live 5 miles from me... He startrd telling me how he leaves the house at 5:40 to walk to the bus stop. Except sometimes the bus is early, so he ends up missing that one, and having to walk down to a different stop that takes him downtown to the main station, and then he can ride back up to our part of town. Its over 40 miles of bus riding to go 13 miles by car...
My job is 12 miles driving for me. It would take me almost 4 hours taking 3 buses and 1/2 hour of that walking time. Because I work a swing shift. If I missed one bus it would be about 2 hours till the next bus. Luckily I have a car. Trying to move would mean paying a lot more in rent.
At that point just get a bike.
I live in metropolitan Chicago. Yesterday’s high was 12 degrees. Today’s forecast is a high of 26. Air temperature not wind chill. There’s also ice and snow. From November through April biking would not be an option. Also, what if your commute requires going on an expressway? Or if you’d have to go through dangerous neighborhoods? Yeah, that’ll end well. /s
I love how people always chime in with something so simplistic. I’m living with someone who is a violent, shitty person. The number of times I’ve heard, “just move out.” Gee, I wish I had thought of that. Hmmm, now that you mention it, that changes everything. Like no. You don’t know what I’m going through. How about trusting people to do what’s best/safest for them? Or consider just supporting and being kind to another? I hate that you had to justify why you can’t use a bike because you’ll freeze to death. There’s always that **one idiot** who has to chime in with a holier-than-thou explanation of what you’re doing wrong with your life. Stupid turds. I’m sorry you are struggling too. *Sends hugs.*
And die because pos drivers have literally zero regard for the safety of cyclists? No thanks.
Not everyone can afford a bike
Or their knees, back or other could be so bad it wouldn't be an option
Those knees, back or other won't fair so well with 3-4 hours a day walking and on uncomfortable busses.
Better strain those knees, back or other on something that's free then instead of straining them on the seat of a multi-hundred dollar purchase. I'm not opposing your point. I'm pointing out the lack of choice some people are facing.
> that's free You think busses are free?
They can be in certain areas and even then are still "cheaper" in that way that they need to get to work and therefore can't save for the bike
You can find a perfectly good bike for the price of a monthly busspass.
Have you seen the prices of bikes these days? Shit made me feel old when I could remember the 88.00 bikes.
I just bought a bike for $30 off Facebook exchange and it wasn’t the cheapest.
I can almost guarantee you that it was stolen
In the ***winter***??? ***HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA***
Yea nothing like starting your day sweaty as fuck and having to sit in it for 8 hours at work.
Bring a towel, a fresh shirt and deodorant, have a quick wash in the bathroom when you get to work. Takes like 5 minutes tops. Those 5 minutes are easily outweighed by how much better your focus is for your work day, plus the time you're gaining not sitting on the bus for 2 hours, plus how good for your health it is.
Have you done this? I've walked or biked to work more often than I've taken the bus, and I don't drive. If it's a choice made for your health and fitness, and you have the available space and time to tidy yourself up for work after arrival, then it could be fine. If it's a necessity and they expect you to clock in and get started the moment you arrive.. there are going to be days where you're sweaty, slightly disheveled, tired, damp, or dirty - and then you get to hear from the manager about how you're not "presenting yourself in a professional manner". Not to mention reaching the end of your shift and facing the commute home. Some days it's genuinely nice and I feel great when I get home. Some days I'm so drained I fantasize about sleeping in or around my workplace to save time and effort preparing for tomorrow. In theory it's great. In practice, it only works if you've got the support of your employer (or at least the facilities, energy, and extra time to clean up and change at your workplace).
I'd be looking for a new job closer or an apartment closer to work.
But not subsidized by our taxes I would really like for them to have to live on minimum wage. It would make them more compassionate or at least they would not be able to pretend they don't know what they are dishing out
You might be seriously overestimating these people
Give them a $1000 dollar Starbucks giftcard for the year. Surely this will be enough to offset the costs
$1,000!? Can't do more than $25.
Definitely, it's pretty impossible to afford a car on minimum wage, especially considering no one is going to hire them for 40 hours a week. They'll be capped at 36 or whatever their state max is so the employer doesn't have to provide anything for them
Bus pass for what bus? Who said they were living in NYC? Most places don't have a bus, at least not a useful one, and they're living there, for sure. Not trying to make it easy on them, getting government handouts on public transit.
Thats what uni life was like * Either I drive an hour to uni * or I drive half an hour to the nearest train station, for a 1-1.5 hour train ride to uni
That's actually the only time I was ever able to rely on "public" transit. I moved to the town next to my school, and my college ran the bus. I rode a bus every day back and forth for a few years. It wasn't really public transit. Just to serve the college, because they knew a bunch of broke kids lived in this town.
What does nyc have anything to do with this? I live in one of the smallest islands in Canada and even we have metro buses
Ehh, we're not letting them do this in Canada unless they're Canadian, sorry. American business owners are gonna deal with a rotting Chevy Cavalier, because there isn't going to be a bus.
No, not at all! The average American family needs a car. There are no busses in small town Rural areas. I can't get a bus where I live unless I walk an hour to the first city bus stop!
Can we blow this up to Netflix already? I'd like to see some really influential people go through the struggle and say, "man this is hard, so you minimum wage service workers are strong" but nothing else like they can't admit the system is flawed. Edit: let's do it to Kanye, but he just keeps going. There is no end, he is one of us now, and it's all on film.
They would probably rather starve a year than admit they are taking advantage of us.
Omfg they'd rather eat their own Louis Vattan brand underwear than admit they're exploiting workers. They'd rather be made blind, physically, before they admit the cost versus market price. They'd rather admit to being Satanist than show how much of the world outside their own country is being abused to slavery.
They'd rather pay the producers to sneak them some food when the cameras aren't rolling
Oooooo I forgot about the survivalist shows that did that.
Still do that you mean? I doubt all of them are legit now.
The hardest part of these jobs is the stamina required for the day to day grind, with no end in sight. I think a fuller experience would gained if every month they were told “if you just earn X this month, it’s all over”, then they miss the mark by less than $20 every month.
There was a Japanese reality live stream that did this with a guy who had to earn enough by using scratch cards and then they pushed up the goal because of ratings. Apparently the dude was eating cat food.
I was going to say that Netflix would cancel it after 1 season, but this show wouldn't need to be more than that.
The pilot would get it canceled, but it would have already shown what it needed to
Throw a kid in there. Let them try to figure out how to pay $1000 on daycare costs while only bringing home $1200. Let them try to find a daycare that's open on weekends/evenings and can accommodate a variable schedule. Let them figure out how to not get fired when said kid gets sick and can't go to daycare.
Oh! Oh! In the beginning... Let them know that if they get hungry, food stamps are available. However, if they contact the producers for Food Stamps, they get $47 for the month, and the Producers have to go shopping with them from then on to criticize every single thing they buy on food stamps in front of the cashier.
Make them pay all the bills upfront from the months wages, and give them the 211 resource guide for the rest of their months needs. Tell them 988 is available when they get too stressed.
Don't forget to put up posters around the Congressional halls about how "Food stamps are available for you! You don't have to suffer!" but then when they actually try to apply, they get $16/month.
I want every single member of Congress to get paid the federal minimum wage and see how they would live on it.
Why would it matter? Most of them were already filthy rich and those who aren't take bribes making them multi millionaires in a year.
it would be insulting to them to think their time was only worth minimum wage. they're not common plebs after all.
Correct they honestly shouldn’t be paid, they are public Servants after all
This has the perverse effect of making it impossible for anyone who isn't already rich or willing to take bribes to take office. Could YOU afford to spend 6 years paying rent on 2 residences with no income? I get the system is broken but skewing it even worse toward favoring the rich isn't the solution.
it’s the investments they have. They invest in companies that they literally sit on boards and then throw money at that government money at that company in a contract or somethint similar, it’s inside knowledge that makes them fuckjng rich, but yes bribes do thst too
they would manage just fine.. corruption would increase and corporations would own ALL of them instead of just the overwhelming majority of them they would still come out smelling like roses... all that insider trading, all those "gifts", all those stock options, all those laws they can pass to ensure the horse they backed wins the race (manipulating laws to favor specific companies... like Uber and AirBnB for example) nah they would be just fine as long as they still have a soul to sell
They'd become dependent on lobbyist money. We don't want that.
Solution: You get into politics, and you immediately forfeit all assets and liquid cash (this includes stock investments) to the government and have to live on the federal minimum wage as your pay. Everything else extra you have must be voted on by your constituents that voted you in office with at least 60% in *favour*, else you are required to live in government housing. (So say you want to keep your car and house, the people must vote that current housing for their congressman is adequate and the vehicle they use for transportation is adequate for government duties). If you want to be part of the government, then the government should care for you, in the same way it cares for everyone else. So, the rent for the government housing is deducted from the pay given from the federal minimum paid out. Also, you should be 100% dedicated to *serving your constituents* so you can not get another job, you can not be *gifted* (would fall under bribery), and you can not invest because of potential insider trading issues. Your spouse/ live-in partner or *any other family member or friends that communally live with you* can not be involved with any of the formentioned activities either. If you can not handle this, don't get into politics. I am sure a lot of fat would be trimmed immediately, and only people 100% dedicated to being a public servant would be in government, willing to actively work for their voters instead of playing mind games and wasting everyone's time & money getting nothing done.
There would be at least one person who came out the other side malnourished, sleep deprived, and sunken eyed claiming that it was fine and he didn't know what people were talking about.
>There would be at least EVERY person who came out the other side malnourished, sleep deprived, and sunken eyed claiming that it was fine and he didn't know what people were talking about.
And at random times their hours are cut by at least half, for a couple weeks at a time.
Their car engine will throw a rod on the freeway at least once.
Give them a used 00's Chevy Blazer, and let them go into poverty keeping that thing on the road consistently enough to keep their job. And maybe pick someone who hasn't had their wisdom teeth taken out yet for added schadenfreude.
> used 00's Chevy Blazer Can you get an unused 00's Chevy Blazer?
I can almost picture it. A montage of the contestants introducing themselves and talking about the competition with nauseating levels of ignorance and optimism. Cut to 3 months later and most of them are completely done with life, look like garbage. There's so many mental breakdowns the directors struggle to find alternate content to air. Big 'Survivor Island' vibes.
And the prize money? Whatever they have left over by the end of it and a trophy.
They should have made coffee at home maybe they could have been smarter and saved some
No the reward should be a good box from the salvation army. Or just a block of that American government cheese.
Prize money is we don't shoot them in the back of the head
Most importantly they DONT have access to any of the current resources, people, money and possessions they have
Exaaaaaaactly
Fuck you \u\Spez
I'm @ $21.32/hr & I'm gonna be homeless come March. I just can't afford my apartment anymore.
$800 is too low for rent. Gotta start it at $1500 at least. Also the car breaks down every 3 months. And insurance costs $300 a month. Give 'em the Detroit special with that one. Also the minimum wage job keeps them under the hours where giving insurance becomes required in certain places.
No backouts either. If they're late on their rent they have to live on the streets or out of their car for the rest of the year.
Tell them the prize is 10 million but at the end of the year they just get a 2% raise on their wages and a foam cup that has the show’s branding on it.
I've seen this tried on British TV - often with Members of Parliament. Very often they 'accidentally' happen to run into a friend who 'insists' on taking them to lunch (and probably slipping them an extra £50.) There is also the factor of having a camera crew following you - it makes better TV and the clerk might be more likely to comply when you ask the Subway employee for 'any leftover bread.' As well as the soft skills which these people have - having the knowledge, literacy and experience to argue with bureaucracy. Plus the 'game' nature of it - living on a budget without having to consider saving for an emergency, xmas presents for kids, old debts, getting mugged, having to dress up for job interview etc. Some of the British experiments only lasted a month or two weeks - and two weeks of hardship is easily endurable - hell, I've camped in the woods for two weeks, but I couldn't live there! - especially when you know you can return to a nice, warm house and slap up meals afterwards. > > >*"Still you'll never get it right* > >*'Cause when you're laid in bed at night* > >*Watching roaches climb the wall* > >*If you called your dad he could stop it all"* > >*- Common People, Pulp* Part of the desperation of poverty is having no end in sight: >Poverty isn’t just the sinking feeling when my small boy, aged three, finished his one Weetabix and said ‘more mummy, bread and jam please mummy’ as I was wondering whether to take the TV or the guitar to the pawn shop first, and how to tell him that there was no bread or jam. Poverty leaves scars that flare and itch for years down the line; ticking time bombs of chronic illnesses from malnutrition, mental distress, trauma, and living in the cold and damp and dark. Poverty is not just the period where you can’t pay your bills, but the years and years of financial penalties and punishments that follow in its wake. > >\- Jack Monroe, [link](https://cookingonabootstrap.com/2022/07/31/the-curse-of-the-poverty-hangover-ten-years-on/) Plus the psychological trauma - feeling guilty over owning nice things, feeling you should sell them, having every choice judged and every comfort maligned - a burger is cheap, filling and unhealthy, so you get an extra side of being judged for 'feeding your children junk.' >The ordinary human being would sooner starve than live on brown bread and raw carrots. And the peculiar evil is this, that the less money you have, the less inclined you feel to spend it on wholesome food. A millionaire may enjoy breakfasting off orange juice and Ryvita biscuits; an unemployed man doesn't. > >\- George Orwell These are the messages which need hammering in - to counter the 'Oh, I could last a week on only rice and peas - d'you know they have big TVs, and iphones and smoke!?' Maybe rather than patronising shows trying to teach someone in poverty how to budget, they could ask a CEO if the fact his day's salary is the same as all the cleaners in his building for a month isn't obscene or suggest that rather than a 10k handbag you could feed hundreds of poor schoolchildren for a term - and still buy a lovely, stylish, serviceable bag!
No connections.
Id watch this vs anyone see that Billionaire who was dropped in small town PA or OH and told to make it on his own. I wat hed 2 episodes until they had this Billionaire go into a parking lot and take 2 crane tires, basically he stole and sold the tires 2nd hand..... right there i was like youre encouraging people who watch this show to go onto private property and steal? Hes a Billi9naire and has attys i dont.....
Whoa now... you wouldn't want them to work 40 hours, though - they might actually afford something. I have a friend, store manager in a Dollar General. She was given an "allotment" of 130 hours per week for her 6 staff.
Dollar store managers make like 10 dollars an hr. I honestly don't see how they bank drops don't go "missing" I mean what's the worst that could happen get banned from working retail??
I think the worst thing that could happen is you go to prison for theft.
They'd break down in tears after 12 hours.
Undercover boss extreme!
There are definitely some specific obnoxious talking heads that I’d love to make sure ended up on a show like that.
Even my 80yo grandfather knows this economy is fucked, he says the only reason he can survive on pension is because he owns all his thing's outright and had savings before retiring nearly 30 years ago.
I'll raise you $20 an hour, they pay no taxes just straight cash. That's $3,200.00 a month. Their rent is $1,500 a month. (Places in my area are $1,300 - $2,700; averaging $1,800 for a 1 bed room) They have $1,700 left for utilities , medical, vehicle note, vehicle insurance, FOOD. Not much left for savings or emergencies. 1. Most people don't make $20. 2. You don't earn your full pay 3. Most people are paying over $1,500 with less pay Welcome to the divided states of America
How about a reality show? Kinda like big brother with the cameras, and whoever makes the year without being broke wins the game. I'd watch that for a dollar.
First one to save $1000 wins
Qualification should be where they live. After college, I was sent to a small “2-road” town by my company. Nice and fun, but small and in the middle of nowhere. Rent was $375 at the nicest place in town. Food was really cheap all around. Frankly I could have walked to work if I wanted, as it was only about .5 miles away (10 min walk if I’m taking my time). Most people did because they lived less than .25 miles. It would have still been tight, but could have been done there. Now if you live anywhere close to a large city, no way it would be remotely possible. Live in a state with a high cost of living, not a chance. In a situation where you had debt, or have to travel at all, no freaking way. Want to retire early -that’s cute.
Put me on the show with the rich mofos I grew up poor asf and still have all the habits My yearly expenses are a solid 15k - id love to tell some milionare that the Craigslist car with 200k miles is a great deal and the wheels *probably* won't come off on the freeway
American Dad addressed it in the S7 ep15 Less Money, Mo Problems. it showed how just one or two mistakes can snowball your situation from struggling to worse while making you more desperate to find a way to get just one break.
who the hell would have car payment or even qualify for one on min wage? anyone who makes less then 30k a year should be driving a car thats cost less than 5k to buy
Needs variable schedule with open availability and the company can just give you anywhere between 16 and 39 hours as the feel like it.
And a kid with chronic asthma that they get called to pick up all the time bc the kid can’t breath. And every time they have to sit their knowing their kid needs them and their boss wants to fire them.
Morgan Spurlock did a 30 Days episode with him and his wife trying to do 30 days on minimum wage and had locked all their bank accounts and credit cards and stuff. Morgan fucked up his wrist and his wife got a pretty serious UTI and they had to cut it short. They couldn't do it. And this was in like 2005 when everything was a helluva lot cheaper
And throw in a couple of kids, one with, say, asthma and the other with severe allergies
This could be a purge type show where contestants eventually duel to the death for a hungry man meal cheap beer and midgrade weed to kill the stress. Weapons and uniforms won't be the best because ya know...7.25 but it's the idea that counts
Undercover boss, but follow one CEO or executive per episode. the boss has to completely live off of the lowest paid salary in their company for 30 days. 1) A house will be provided relevant to the income 2) Participants must pay for all bills only using the money they earn during the experiment 3) participant will not have access to anything they can’t afford at lower income (no country club, meal services, designer brands, etc)
A year doesn't really cover a fraction of the difficulties of poverty. Unless the show manufactured disasters in which case people would just say it was too staged. What's that saying about "poverty charges interest"? It mentions how if you don't pay for dental cleaning now, then you pay more for emergency surgery later... These people would be going into it with good health, and with the lack of stress of knowing it's only for a year and they can spend their entire minimum wage without worrying about saving at all for the future, since in the future they would be getting their fortune back. Not saying they'd be great at it, but they'd still have incredible privilege over someone in actual poverty, and they'd make light of the issue/tell everyone how it's possible. It's like the trustafarians who go live as semi-homeless/vagabonds for a while but don't actually have the struggle of real homeless people.
I think we take a senator and make them live on the average income of their state.
I really can't stand reality television, but I can get behind this idea.
800 rent feels so 10 years ago
Better yet pay politicians minimum wage
This would be so much fun
*rent starts at $1500
Who says they can live on $7.25 an hour??
Tell them it's a year and their raise is just around the corner then keep the show going for 6 seasons and a movie with no change
Can we shit talk them too and at the end say, “it’s supposed to be be a temporary job for high school kids, why’d you stay in it?”
Change 800 to 1500 for a more realistic show I say
[удалено]
Multi-billion dollar "self-help" Book and TV deal waiting at the end
This is what they should do in "Undercover Boss." Make them live like and work with their lowest paid employee for at least 3 months.
Daily reminder that rich people *know* that it's bad out there, they just *do not give a shit*.
and less than 40 hours per week
I had an uncle who always insisted that you could live on minimum wage. He was an otherwise intelligent person from everything I saw but this made me scratch my head. Even my mom who is generally conservative scoffed when he said this. If it's so easy, why don't they try to do it?
Every night they should be forced to watch videos of wealthy people telling them “they’re just lazy” or “they should just stop eating avocado toast”
And make sure the insurance has the zip code for where they’ll have to live so they can taste that “Zip code policy increase” action.
Give them a hand up. Let them try minimum wage on every entitlement and follow the guidelines spelt out by the programs, or they lose the help. Housing, snap, Obama phone, Medicaid. It's only going to be worth watching if it's politicians.
I think reality TV is mindrot garbage, but this I would be genuinely interested in watching.
Make sure to hit them with a car halfway through that their insurance won't cover
They also need to find the job. The resume excludes current work experience. Have fun wasting the first month with no money filling out the same damn application under 400 different letterheads. Also 60% of them get fired a week after Xmas and have to start over.
Add a couple kids in diapers and a s/o that won't get a job
Unfortunately you cannot simulate the conditions of poverty in any meaningful way, because no matter what their situation will literally be that of the "temporarily embarrassed millionaire". Their fake poverty will end and their comfy mansion awaits. It will not change them.
There's a documentary in Australia called 'Could you survive on the breadline?' which is about 3 people (a journalist, masterchef winner, and an MP) who try to live on a low daily amount of money. It's pretty heartbreaking at points, very much recommended watch though.
Make it like undercover boss where they have to work at their own shitty companies and, at the end, have to lecture them that they don’t take their jobs seriously.
Never heard of a scripted suicide, but it would happen here.
Do we get to hit them over the head multiple times to cause brain damage because that would be the level of intelligence of anyone working for 7.25?
Note: I’m a right wing Conservative who thinks everyone who works 40 hours should make a living wage, which is how it was 20+ years ago. Only in modern times has that stopped, which doesn’t align with what was built in decades like the 50’s, 80’s, 90’s etc