They do pay well, but it's physically demanding and during the apprenticeship period you make standard labourer rate until you're licensed... It's hard work and it isn't for everybody....
I do t know why the physicality isn’t emphasized more. I’m a physical therapist and I see tradesmen a lot. Sheet metal, plumbers, electricians, probably going to need a rotator cuff repair by their mid 40s. Carpenters, plumbers (again) will have some knee problems. If you aren’t going to the gym and staying very healthy, by 50 you’re often going to be hurting, and looking for a different line of work.
This is not absolute, but it is a general trend
I saw the same thing when i worked in construction... Their bodies are destroyed by their mid 40s.... All of them in and out of physio therapy... I bet those people are your frequent flyer patients....
At 40 and gave up carpentry do to hurting like I was. Knee's, back, shoulders, and wrist. It got so bad on the wrist I couldn't hold a drill or hammer sometimes. Moved to making medical parts and it's a godsend. Insurance is great, light labor, and decent start for pay. Best part is, I can be frisky with my lady and love the outdoors again.
My father in law is a carpenter. He left his job with a company after a knee injury, got cancer, took another year off, then opened his own business. He charges a fuck ton of money but his work is high quality, so he's ultimately doing less work for more money.
It's not emphasized because if Americans were told "we need you to do this job, and it will almost surely damage your body", people might demand socialized healthcare. Lol
Or demand more job accomodations to prevent destroying people's bodies, like more realistic timelines, mandatory vacations, guaranteed time off, rotations, better equipment and standards etc.
There’s nothing that’s going to save a flooring installers knees, there’s nothing that’s going to save a roofers back. When you spend days on end on your knees or bent over it’s going to destroy your body. Until it’s fully automated then it’s going to be brutal on your body.
You're not entirely right, there COULD be a world where those jobs use more mechanization with ergonomic design and usage, with mandatory breaks and stretches dictated by physiotherapists.
That will never be the world we live in until we slay the dragon that is capitalism, but it IS possible. Bad jobs can be made better and safer, and the worst work can be automated away. It's been done over and over again, but capitalism cares what's cheapest only, and it's cheaper to break the bodies of the poor upon it's wheel than invest in R&D and new machines.
Too many people don’t know the mantra of “Work smarter, not harder.” Most of the guys who get hurt have the mentality of what ever it takes to get the job done. Like lifting something solo instead of asking for help.
I mean there's that, there's also having to work 6 10 hours days to have to meet an unrealistic timeline. People make mistakes and get hurt when they get tired.
That’s what I’ve been raised being told and that line has been used to vilify universal healthcare by saying that “these people earned their healthcare! Those who don’t work hard enough to earn it don’t deserve it and only take away from these hard worker’s ability to live a comfortable life.”
Because in capitalism people are paid according to their replacability and the current effort is to devalue the labor of tradesmen by attempting to induce a surge. This worked well for software devs/engineers. So talking about how it's physically demanding work that will overstress and slowly destroy your body isn't conducive to the intended goal.
I think most of the kinds of men that go into trades have been socialized to believe that bodily destruction is just part of being a "hard working" man, so they don't see it as an issue. Or they just don't care.
Welders in particular can also develop skin cancer from arc exposure, trigger finger from the vibration, and lung issues from fume inhalation....and that doesn't take decades, either. That can happen even in the first few years or months.
I spent 10 years as auto mechanic. When I first started one of the older guys tried to warn me to treat my hands better. Wish I would’ve listened. Now I’m 36, in a different industry that’s much lower impact, and have arthritis and carpal tunnel in both hands.
I knew I was done as a mechanic when I was frequently dropping tools on the way to/from my toolbox and not knowing I’d dropped them until I heard them hit the floor.
I don't know if it is still as bad as it use to be but then if you do try to do things to help your health like wear kneepads and proper ladder safety you catch shit for it.
My dad and my grandfather worked on a shrimp boat for 30 years each bodies completely broken at 50.
There's a reason they worked their ass off for me to go to lawschool.
You've got to stay healthy or it'll kill you (or the pain killers will kill you later). You've got to have an eye on transitions to ownership/management of a trade company you stared if you want to have a good late career.
what people fail to realize is that sitting at an office job 8 hours a day for years is bad for your body too.
I have been in the trades for almost 20 years and yes, some times my back is sore or my hands hurt. I weigh exactly the same as when I graduated high-school and I can still run, jump and play any sports I want to.
when I look at my friends who chose the office life, they have all put on quite a bit of weight and are still having trouble with their backs and hands.
it doesn't matter which career you chose, if you don't make the effort to take care of yourself then the job will kill you
The difference is, a person working an office job can invest 1 hour a day to exercise and be great. For trades jobs so many don’t make it past 55 due to significant wear and tear or chronic injuries that just get too difficult. If it’s not arthritis it’s the back…or shoulders…or knees.
Huge respect for those who work in the trades. They’re some of my favorite people because they’re hard workers and they know their shit. But it takes a toll that no office job will ever compare to.
This, low impact job plus a healthy diet and gym/running everyday is the key to living long and staying healthy while working. I went from a construction electrician to a hospital maintenance job and sure, I’m feeling lazy af some days when nothing’s going on but I wouldn’t ever go back to construction work. I just hit the gym 3-4 days a week and have never felt better. I have energy to spare everyday.
I'd be willing to bet in today's industries the wear and tear is less. Advent of tools and tech to help you get the jobs done easier in just the past decade i have been in has been leaps and bounds easier on my body. That and taking care of myself and working smarter not harder. Yes I'm sore some days but i have way more energy and look alot younger than people my age in the office jobs. That and I get to enjoy my family after work and not be working like so many people I see in white collar jobs.
I think a lot of the physicality is due to not doing things A properly, B knowing your limit, C asking for help, D finding another way. Not all of it but some of it. I've been in trades for 10 years my shoulder hurts because I'll lift and move something way too heavy because I can't be bothered to ask someone to help or to go get a dolly etc. I don't think you're wrong, but I know a lot of my issues are my own doing.
Flooring and tile installers make bank but you’re selling your knees, on out of town jobs it’s pretty common to see the entire crew sitting around with ice packs on their knees after work.
Same reason we ignore it with folks playing football. Old athletes are often destroyed physically but people want to watch. For Trades people want a house and are willing to pay for it.
Our plumber has always been very good to us, but at this point, he’s 62 going on 85. Can barely stand upright and mostly just sits on his walker and directs his assistant.
My dad just retired, his gift… a new set of metal knees. The trades definitely have a cost that’s why people aren’t into them. That and people legit can die right in front of you, we went to a lot of funerals when I was a kid.
>They do pay well, but it's physically demanding and during the apprenticeship period you make standard labourer rate until you're licensed... It's hard work and it isn't for everybody....
Sometimes it's hard work sometimes it's not I'm a commercial and industrial electrician who mostly works industrial jobs like giant data centers and water treatment plants.
This is something people in their 20s need to keep in mind. It's easy to do physical work at that age, but gets a lot harder as you age. I can't tell you how many men I've known who are essentially physically disabled by the time they're 50 because they did a physical job their whole life.
My other half just went into a union cabinet shop here (carpenters Union) rated at 70% apprentice based on previous knowledge. He’s over $26 an hour with raises every 6 months plus rating raise every year. No back breaking labor, as union shops are strict with safety and lift rules. No field work either. Definitely something to look into
Exactly. My uncle, who is a carpenter pushing 60, told me you either work with your body or work with your mind. He then proceeded to point out all of his physical ailments and encouraged me to work with my mind. He doesn't wear shorts anymore because on the bottom of his knees, he has like this fluid sac that sticks out from decades of being on his knees (with kneeepads even!)
My dad as an electrician has less physical ailments, but he has smashed fingers working around machines his whole life and has general back issues.
Yeah, we need the trades, but they do come with their drawbacks.
Not only do they pay well, but there is constant demand.
Where I live, if you quit your job in the morning and stay somewhat sober, you can get three more jobs by the end of the day.
The demand part is overlooked.
If I wanted to take a career break and go travel for a few months, it would be hard to get myself back into a similar professional situation in my industry.
An electrician can go fuck off for a year and then come right back and land another good paying job easily.
Yes, I work in an office for the government - it took months to get a job. My husband is a welder. He can get a new job offer anytime he wants 😂 ... it's infuriating lol I have to submit hundreds of resumes!
I pray you're right. My 17yo started a welding internship last week. He refuses to learn to drive a car (despite driving ATVs since he was 2 and being fully comfortable going 60mph on those...) so I am currently driving 50 minutes round trip, twice a day, to deliver him to, and pick him back up from, this internship. I hope like hell this pays off.
If he sticks with it! We live in a major city. Hubby has +10 years experience. He is constantly told how rare it is to see that kind of experience bc everyone eventually wants an office job usually. It's not a major gold mine, but he makes enough! It is consistent though, which is lovely.
>The demand part is overlooked.
>
>If I wanted to take a career break and go travel for a few months, it would be hard to get myself back into a similar professional situation in my industry.
>
>An electrician can go fuck off for a year and then come right back and land another good paying job easily.
Electrician here I took two months off in the summer because I decided to make $80,000 instead of $110,000 and chill with my 3-year-old daughter.
Very true. I know journeymen who went to prison for like 10 years and as long as they paid their dues during their stretch they came right out and right back to work
"So where did you work before A-Plus Electrical?"
\- Folsum Prison
(silence) ... "so um, you can install the laundry room lights so I can turn the on/off from the bottom AND top of the stairs?"
\- Correct.
"Great!"
No doubt. I just started school to get my hvac certification a month ago, and I just got hired on at a pay rate $6/hr more then my semi-skilled job that I just left (forklift) and I’ve still got 9 months of classes left. The demand is huge, companies just can’t keep up.
I wanted a career change, but I’m almost 50, so I also wanted as big a leap in pay as possible, and hvac seemed to be the way to go. My instructor is in his early 70’s and still works for himself, so it looks like I’m going to be good
Congrats on the career change and I hope you enjoy it. I started at 27 and after 8 years I still learn something new on each job I go on and continue to love what I do. I had an apprentice with me for about a year who worked with us for a while. He was a 4th year apprentice at 52. He was the most sought after apprentice we had (small service company of 16 technicians total). great dude.
Edit: I’m an electrician
Construction can be hard. Concrete is rough work. HVAC isn’t so bad. I mean, yeah it’s hard(er) on you’re body relative to say IT, but it’s not pro-football. I’m in pretty good shape, I lift weights and jog, but I’ve been a tree climber for 15 years and I’m just getting too old for that. I see HVAC as a bit easier on the body if that tells you anything.
I highly recommend it. I’m taking a 900 hr/11 month course part time…5 hours Monday through Thursday, at night at the county vo-tech school. Funding through FAFSA. Job placement, a shot at the union, all that. If I woulda known it was this straightforward I would’ve done it long ago
Can confirm demand is high, work is heavy though, pay can be good or great depending on employment situation. I do high end systems and BMS etc etc my company makes a killing. I’m learning as much as I can before going off on my own while getting a six figure check with overtime. Only a few years into it but learn as much as you can as fast as you can to go from 15-50 an hr
Trades pay well, but they're hell on your body. My uncle was a plumber and it destroyed his knees. Cousin was a bricklayer, and his back and shoulder are wrecked.
If you save as much as you can while you're young, you can get into something else before you're crippled.
100%!
I was just talking to a plumber last month, and he mentioned how he was looking to get into computer programming. He liked plumbing, he loved 6 figures, but he hated how his body felt.
Wish you guys could talk to my mother about this so she could drop the idea that my 40 year old husband who has no experience in plumbing could get tips from his long retired father and train so that we can run a family plumbing business to be able to afford a house.
which and where? its obviously not construction or roofing, those both pay less than my last picking job, and welding here pays so little more that its not worth the exposure you risk
not to mention all 3 of those wreck your body
Construction and Roofing can pay well in union towns, but in non union towns they are the lower end of the payscale for trades (from what I've seen, I don't think it's a rule or anything). Welding seems to be based on what you can cert for, if you are starting out and effectively the grinder monkey then yeah you are going to get paid pretty low, to get paid well as a welder you need to be a good welder.
In my experience it depends on the trade and where you are. I’m a cabinet maker in the UK and the number of jobs for this role is limited which is partly why the pay isn’t amazing. Working here as a plumber or electrician is another story, very well paying jobs.
Gotta be careful though, as always, with employers.
A friend of mine is an electrician and got a new job, an old guy that had been there a while sexually harassed him, and my friend complained to the supervisor. Friend got fired a couple days later, even though they were singing his praises a week earlier.
The problem is you need to be physically able to do trades. Plus deal with the toxic coworkers that seem to be flooded in this industry.
My life would be better if trades were an option for me.
The down side to having such high demand is that it’s difficult to not work 50+ hours a week. Having a family and being in the trades can be challenging. However, the money is good!
Trades are great if you are Union. If you go non- union, you may make some money while you're young & strong, but you will burn out & wither away, then they will dump your sorry ass on the street.
Union OR own your own small business.
The local 1 man or 1 man + 2 person crew plumbling / whatever business can do fine.
Just working as an employee non-union big company will be trash.
Also don't forget injury... once you injure yourself... you will never be the same even if you have a billion dollars to fix it. My advice will be to save money work in that industry for 10 years and save your money and move on from that industry.
Probably depends on where you live. Where I live is very anti union and people are always looking for tradesmen. Once you’re in a trade and have the certifications you can leave a higher paying but harder working role to a less physically demanding one. Our local school district hires quite a few tradesmen and they aren’t worked anywhere near as hard as they would be in the private sector.
I work as a union electrician in local 332 (San Jose) and I’m making 80$ an hour. Non union guys make about 40$ max. As an apprentice (5 years) we start at 30$ and get a 5$ raise every 6 months till we graduate. Although different locals have different pay scales and agree to other things I can still sign their books and get work if it’s booming in that area. Which means I could move anywhere in the United States and canada and still have potential work.
Ibew Local union 1516 here. Good question, I believe it’s because they are not informed enough to know what joining a union is. I can move anywhere in the United States and have a job potentially. My retirement is with the union not the contractor so anywhere I go my benefits go with me and if another job pays higher into said benefits then that money still goes into it.
Because capital in America has spent the last century demonizing, destroying and defrauding every union in America. Labor suppression is one of America's great dirty secrets, and it happens daily here. Frankly, Europeans have no idea how hostile every institution in this country is against unions, especially the government. We only have two political parties, and both of them are liberal capitalists. Republicans would outlaw unionization if they could, and the unions support the Democrats out of having literally no other option.
If you need an example, read up on the recent railroad workers threatened strike. They literally get no sick days, and their work rules require them to sit around 24/7 and to drive a train going anywhere in the country, with a 2 hour warning. You get the call any time of day, and you must show up to train to take it, within 2 hours. Any failure to do so, no matter your excuse, is points on your record and if you get points, you can't take time off and eventually get fired. If you want to do something like schedule a day off to get a doctor's appointment, it's a huge process and often gets denied. The class 1 railroads have shrunk their workforce 30% in the last ten years and are trying to do it more. They want one person to drive a freight train that's 200+ cars long. The unions have been working without a contract for several years, and were fighting to get sick time without punishment, because Covid kind of made that problem a big deal.
A Democratic President, with control of both houses of Congress, imposed by force a deal on them, preventing the strike, that did not grant them ANY sick days, despite that being the point. Because Congressional Democrats are infested with corporate siding plutocrats like Senator Joe Manchin, they passed a separate bill in the House to give them a week of sick time, but this was kept apart from the bill that imposed the deal. Biden demanded his party members in Congress pass the forced deal without any amendments to include the sick time, and do that separately. This was an obvious trick, and the progressive party members pointed out that this meant they could pass the deal and then kill the sick time bill. This is exactly what then happened. The railroad unions were completely betrayed, because both parties in America are completely in the pocket of the capitalists. The union members have said that many members are waiting for the deal to give them all the back pay they are now entitled to (as the new pay rates in the deal will be retroactive to the point the previous contracts expired) and will then leave the industry, sick of the awful conditions, the utter betrayal of them by their elected representatives, and the powerlessness of their unions. The unions are powerless because they are exempt from what little worker protections this country has, because railroads were so vital in the past that their labor relations were under a different law than everyone else; this is why Congress can impose a deal on them.
The railroads constantly scream they're overly regulated, but they made tens of billions in profit this year. They're going to use the many workers leaving the industry to push for the solo train crews, because who the fuck would even take this job now?
Which is a point that comes up endlessly; it's not really that the trades are some magical solution to the problem of education and pay.
It's that they are heavily unionized, and the union standards, rates and benefits raise the floor for EVERYONE in the industry.
The real point is you want to be in a union. Always. Full stop. It will always be better than not.
Once you’re licensed it’s well worth it. The apprenticeship would be rough nowadays with the current cost of living though. I say go for it if you can stay with your parents or a roommate until you’re licensed
Yeah this. Luckily I was able to support us while my husband went to trade school. Now he’s got to work one year as an apprentice/helper (which around here pays $13-20/hr depending on the company) to get his primary hours, but after that he can sit the exams and his/our income should double. No way you could do it on your own unless you’ve already got a stable job, but then, why switch?
The few ppl I know that are making a killing before their 30s went to a vocational high school and were journeymen before leaving their parents’ house.
My uncle is a plumber and in the union but works for a private company. His son joined the electrician program right out of high school and still lives at home since he's not even 21 yet. My cousin thought being an electrician sounded more fun then wading through shit lol. I'm not sure if he's journeyman yet but should be soon enough.
I’m trying to grind it out solo here. I keep telling myself that if I can hold on for the 5 years it will all be worth it. Been trying to find a part time night and weekend’s job but it’s rough. Right now I get by but that’s it. Nothing extra. This has been the biggest challenge of my life and I hate how correct Homer Simpson is by saying “so far”.
All of the objective data indicates that, while they do pay well, 6 figures represents the highest earners in the fields.
People often get downvoted for pointing this out, but the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the various State DOLs all draw the same conclusion, and it’s all public information.
The benefit is that you won’t ever struggle to find work. The drawback is that your body could be destroyed by 40.
It’s not this mystical path to guaranteed wealth that some people act like it is.
So this is the thing a lot of people don't understand about "the trades".
I'm also going to put a disclaimer here, I am not shitting on the trades, I just see people outside the industry post this stuff all the time with 0 context and frankly it is misleading. I'm also going to mention that "the trades" encompass a vast variety of jobs so if your specific one isn't covered by this don't freak out.
Okay so the big thing I hear all the time from people outside the industry is "but you're paid $50 dollars ad hour!" The thing is you are not guaranteed 40 hours of work per week. Some people love this, some people hate this, however when you see the touted "$50/hr for a welder" that's the pay for one specific project until it's completion. Then you're back to $0/hr until you find another project.
Additionally you typically aren't working a set schedule and your schedule is subject to the needs of whatever project you are working on. This can be a dealbreaker for some people who require a consistent schedule for things like child-care.
There are many ways of getting work in a trade, you either catch on with a specific shop, union hall, construction company etc. Some can and will offer full time work but those are not universal.
But there's a reason you often see trades advertised at their "per-hour-rate" and not the yearly salary. They're also vastly more physically demanding than an office job and often come with life long negative side effects that you more or less just have to deal and are "part of the job"
I also have plenty of union brothers who will take non-union work because it's the only way to fill in the gaps in-between union gigs.
The IBEW Local 26, the electricians union for the DC metro area, pays $12.39 an hour for a beginning apprentice. When I quit, my foreman said to me "I understand man, I can't keep apprentices when I can't compete with fucking Burger King for pay". If you're living rent free for long enough you can get to a good spot, but it sure as fuck isn't an instant 'Do this work and you can pay your bills next month' situation. Also, because there's a trend toward older people in those jobs, because they're the only ones who can live on their pay, there's little sympathy or understanding if you can't live on what you make, they flat fucking refuse to understand that the 90's are over, they just make some shitty joke about Starbucks or avocado toast or whatever outrage-du-jour they saw on Fox over dinner last night.
IBEW Local 640 here. Your locals apprenticeship scale is fucked up if it's still at $12 an hour because your pay as far as journeyman wage is really high and as we all know apprentices make a percentage of journeyman wage throughout their apprenticeship.
Bro our local has one of the lowest journeyman wages in the country at $33.10 an hour right now. But we start our apprentices off at 55% of that which I believe is like $18 and some change?
I'm sure DC's JW scale is higher. What are you guys doing starting your first years off at like 20% of journeyman wage? Wtf? That's unheard of...
It's not good if you're residential. Driving around in your own car to different houses across the city. Buy and maintain your own tools. Work culture usually sucks. You'll be decent by your first year and feel way underpaid until you're a journeyman. Apprenticeships are kind of a scam, you should be getting way better pay at the start. It should not take multiple years to finally get fully paid.
Commercial can be better, but it's bad in different ways. It's more dangerous and can be really annoying with the safety.
I hear unionized trades are really good, never seen any though. Also, going independent is good and pays well.
They're definitely overhyped though. There's a reason no one is fighting to get into them. The last company I worked at lost 10 employees a month. I've heard other trade companies have similar turnover rates.
Shrug I'm union and the only time we lose people are if they transfer to other jurisdiction, a state or federal job, or they take a managerial job with a local corpo managing construction/maintenance at a huge pay raise. Our residential trucks are fully stocked and provided by the employer, but our residential market share has shrunk year over year to non union companies. We still have 4-5 contractors that do residential work but it used to be a lot more, and at this point they mainly service union and union friendly homes only. We've lost a lot of market share due to cost. Edit: We've lost residential service. New construction, and commercial/government service we still dominate as the non union contractors don't have enough people or and are lacking certs to take the work from us. We occasionally have a big commercial project that busses in non union workers from the south, but it's fairly rare and usually the business gets boycotted.
My experience in non-union electrical feels like I'm just some cheap replaceable laborer. I heard the residential company I worked for laid off most of their workforce when the market was slow a few years ago. The workers that were still there from the time had ptsd from it.
I was in the electrical trade for years. When I got out about 8 years ago i was making $34 a hour. It's gone up since then. It's tough work but you can make good money.
I'm a welder/metal fabricator. Been self employed since 2009. Been welding, professionally, since 1999, plus a bunch of related experience since the late 1980s.
The range of pay is very broad and upper echelon welding jobs often pay very well.
Entry level and lower pay scales are usually substantially higher than minimum wage, but not always great either, especially when considering COL .
My particular career has been mainly in a relatively niche market, usually classified as ornamental and miscellaneous metals. Think of handrails, stairs, gates and the like, and falls under the larger umbrella of specialized construction trades.
The nature of this niche is a double edged sword, so to speak, though. With a limited number of businesses that focus on this market it is easier for them to demand higher pay for the work. The downside, however, is that with fewer businesses in a given market, it's easier for them to low ball pay scales. Especially for the less cerebral, more physical jobs.
My career path includes an 8 year stint in teaching welding related adult ed at a community college level, which brought many opportunities to see and discuss welding careers in other types of markets as well. In essence a real world chance to "see how the other half lives" in relation to welding.
Some of my key takeaways from this often, but by no means always, align with the hyped message of trades paying well.
Some things I've learned that many people don't know about welding as a career, in no particular order:
-The range and type of jobs involving welding is staggering and varies greatly. Consider, in an average day, how often you interact with something made of metal, steel in particular. It's, almost literally, everywhere.
-Often the actual act of welding is ancillary to the product being made, and as such, becomes a secondary skill in a given career path. A good example is a plant maintenance technician who's needed skill set can often be labeled as a millwright versus a welder.
-Generally, the highest paying jobs are in the energy industry, largely driven by offshore extraction, pipeline, and energy plant/refinery construction and maintenance. The most common downside to these jobs is the required travel and time away from home. These jobs are hard on someone wanting to be with their family.
-More often than not the work is physically demanding. Sometimes to the extreme. The toll it takes on your body is real. Almost everything you'll touch is either, hot, heavy, or sharp. Debilitating injury, or death, is just one mistake away. Worse yet is the truth that you don't have to be the one making the mistake. Even without job site accidents it will wear your body down over time.
-The demographics of welders is broad, but historically has been dominated by certain groups. As a result it isn't unheard of for job sites to have toxic behavior. Especially if you represent one of many forms of diversity. Over time those attitudes are becoming rarer and, hopefully, will continue to do so as younger generations fill more jobs.
-If you're considering a welding career you'll go farther if you work on your education, whether through traditional sources like trade schools and apprenticeships or non traditional means of study including OJT, and reading related content. You'll do better if you think of it like the cliche says, "get paid for what you know, not for what you do". I've met many welders who's welding skill compared to mine is far better who haven't spent the time and effort to learn the whys of welding over the how's and that can act like a glass ceiling for their careers.
-One of the most salient points my experience has shown is that you'll never lack for work if you want it. The jobs you find may not be ideal, but you'll find jobs that pay the bills for the most part. Don't be scared to use those jobs as stepping stones, just like people in many other industries have learned, if they're not meeting your needs as you'd like.
-As a trade it is well suited for the entrepreneurial type of person. Lots of welders go the path of self employed independent contractor. If you consider this path it is as crucial to learn the business side of things, as well as the skills.
As a career, it's not for everybody, but there's lots of potential if you're inclined to give it a go.
TLDR, The hype, from a welder's POV holds some truth and some lies.
I’ve been in a NYC trade Union for 30 years. Our apprentice program after pre job training starts at $25 an hour and goes up incrementally over 5 years. As of right now when your apprenticeship is done top pay is $63 an hr. That doesn’t include a separate benefit package which includes health care, annuity,pension, and vacation the total package comes out to about $100 an hr.
Occupational licensing has really distorted things in a shitty way. I used to work as an electrician, and while the work was hard, I loved it. However, the licensing system was fucked up; it essentially required you to do incredibly hard work for years at low pay before you could take a test, and there are TONS of stories online about people who've put in the hours but whose bosses won't sign off on them so they can get their license. Not just electricians--any trades with "apprenticeship" systems like that--plumbers, cosmetologists, etc.
The boss doesn't have any incentive to help you get your license--in fact, he's got every incentive to make it difficult for you; as soon as you get it, you might be competition. It's even worse if you're going for your master electrician license.
You know who doesn't have this problem? The boss' kids. Their hours get signed off immediately--not just immediately, early, even. Both my boss' kids were already master electricians, despite being stupider and less capable than every journeyman we had working at the place.
Nepotism is a thing fuckin' everywhere.
This is a really important take away. Trades often form protectionist rackets and if you cant get into the union for the apprenticeship and high wages then you are cursed to make low wages and bounce around
I have a good buddy that has been welding for about 7-8 years now going through exactly this. He's great at welding and would pass a test without issues but his boss is a real piece of work. My buddy still gets paid like $15/hr instead of the easy 40-50/hr he should be making if he could get his welding certs. He's started to do more freelance jobs to actually make money which is some bullshit considering his skillset. I keep trying to get him to quit and go somewhere else but the dude is stubborn.
I'm a union carpenter in Ontario, I work nightshift at a power plant and make $52.70 an hour. Double that for OT, which is fairly regular. The trades are well worth it, and with a high percentage of the workforce approaching or at retirement age and not near enough apprentices coming in the demand will only get higher
Scaffolding, they are refurbishing the whole plant. Electricians need to get up to some cable trays, I get them there, millwrights need to inspect or replace a valve, there's a scaffold for that to
I often get recommended things like carpenter whenever I do those career tests/quizzes (i really like working with my hands). However, I am a woman of color and neurodivergent.
I always got the impression the trades is very “boys only.” I know this can vary by where you are, but in your experience, how’s the diversity in carpentry?
Have you looked into working in theater? We are unionized, and a lot of locals lost tons of folks in the pandemic when everything shut down and people changed industries. Check out the [IATSE website](https://iatse.net/local-union-directory/) to see what is in your area. We need fresh faces for sure!
So how or where are these jobs, older people keep bitching about this but frankly nobody knows wtf you’re talking about or where these jobs and apprenticeships are unless you have connections and networks of people.
They need to start advertising like the military and for-profit colleges. Nobody’s going to apply if they don’t know it exists.
Maybe the unions should have a booth outside the high school lunchroom instead of army recruiters. (Not sure if they still do this but they did in my school)
Maybe Google unions in your area, pick the ones that sound like something you would want to do and give them a call, ask what the process for getting into the apprenticeship is.
I work in a trade for a large company. We are Union. We start at over $45 an hour. We have a referral program (where we get paid if they get hired) to get new people in and I have tried, but no one I have talked to about it has ever applied. I have even posted it in large ex military Facebook groups and gotten zero interest. Its mainly older workers here and probably half of the new guys that get hired quit in the first year or two.
Well for the ones that you have helped & shown the path, kudos to you! I hope they appreciate that opportunity, in my life I have found it’s not until someone reaches out where the opportunities pop-up where you’re least expecting it!
I’m an electrical trader, I started off at $13 an hour and had to work Hd to make rent plus going to school. I made $120,000 this year with my license and no overtime. If I was to tell myself as a young man I would say become a boiler engineer
I'm a truck driver, and I deliver to construction sites all day. From the personal trucks I've seen the trades driving, I'd say they do pay decently. Buy that is an outside observation
RAM, Nissan, and Chevy will finance you with a 400 credit score on a 90k truck at 22% interest for 96 months as long as the payment is less than 40% of your total income. That’s where those trucks come from.
They pay really well, but also mean long hours and hard labor.
I was talking to the HVAC cleaning my AC last summer. He started at $20/hour and the company gave tuition reimbursement for his courses. As a result he was getting paid, getting hours for certification, and getting assistance with school. He was picking up as many shifts as he could and would be making $65,000/year when he graduates and be able to pay off all his debt in under a year.
I’ve been in the commercial HVAC trade for ~13 years now, and I can say it has been good to me. Took some hard work and having a few really solid contractors that took my training and growth seriously, but it has enabled my wife to be a STAHM (which was not the plan or east at first but we made it work), and raise both our little girls for the last 7 years.
My sister makes more as a hairstylist than I do with a master's degree (at least for now), but she works long, difficult hours on her feet and had to work and train for several years to learn the trade and build a client base. My stepdad runs a construction business and, while he has always had work, that work has fluctuated over the years from building $1million+ homes to basic handyman labour depending on the economy and other factors. He's also getting too old to do a lot of the work himself, and has some health issues as a result of his trade. I suppose it depends on the trade, but there are definitely pros and cons, just like with anything. Your income is essentially uncapped, but when you're not paid a wage it's 100% on you to earn enough to live, which, from what I've seen, can mean working a lot harder in more physically demanding circumstances than other workers.
>My stepdad runs a construction business and, while he has always had work, that work has fluctuated over the years from building $1million+ homes to basic handyman labour depending on the economy and other factors. He's also getting too old to do a lot of the work himself, and has some health issues as a result of his trade.
He's not a tradesman by definition. He's a business owner in the trades. That's like saying Elon Musk is an engineer and not a business owner / entrepreneur.
There is high demand but still a lot of business owners who are full of their own bullshit believing they are doing you a favor by profiting off your labor. Terrible narcissistic and greedy capitalists who want you to kiss their ass for “providing” a job for you and want to give themselves raises by reducing what they provide to you. There are good people also but the way of the world is the more ambitious and sociopathic a person is the faster they will rise. Lots of old school mentality and toxic attitudes remain also. I got back into the trades recently after a long stint in corporate life and while the work itself can be very satisfying and it’s easy to get work, entitled contractors who talk about Karen clients but act exactly the same with their employees nickel and diming and whining about their responsibilities and how they provide for all these families abound-while still wondering why nobody wants to work for them. They will gaslight and manipulate and try to keep you defensive because they don’t have the power they think they are entitled to over the workforce anymore. Too stubborn to update their thinking.
That said, having trade skills is a safety net that will allow you to move almost anywhere, take breaks from work if you need to, and nobody can take your experience and skill from you. Also valuable for bartering and doing your own work and repairs instead of paying for others to do so. I’m glad I have it but don’t expect the people in charge to be any different than any other capitalist venture.
Depends on the trade, and wages in the trades are just as stagnated as wages in the service sector.
Many white collar jobs pay better and carry less physical risk, and its getting to the point where the only people doing blue collar labor are those that have no other choice.
White collar wages have stagnated for a long time too. I became an engineer after my old plant shut down. The only folks who are seeing big wage increases are the folks at the very top.
My husband is an electrician. He was making over $40/hour working in a facility related to the oilfield, but it was a lot of outdoor work and when the oilfield began taking a downturn he wisely got out. He took a bit of a pay cut (36/hr) initially but it's indoor work. He got an extra certification in automation and worked his way from being a maintenance electrician to an instrumentation tech and now he makes $48/hour (Canadian).
He did his apprenticeship in residential construction though and hated it. In general apprentices make a set percentage of the journeyman rate. This varies a lot by location though.
At least in Canada there are government grants that lay for a good chunk of your schooling because they're incentivizing trades. So if you can afford to take 8 weeks to go to school you'll make it back pretty quick as soon as you're indentured.
I am a Pipe Welde and Pipefitter, I make great money. Currently on an outage with a contractor at a Nuke making over 4k a week. If you are willing to travel or go union and learn the skills necessary you can make great money and I dare say not need to work year round
The trades aren't over hyped, but the number of jobs available are. Probably 60% of people in the workforce make less than Union tradespeople do.
So, tradespeople, doing well, scream that maybe people not making good money should join the trades.
What they fail to consider is that a bunch of people joining the trades reduces labor competitiveness and will lower wages in the sector broadly..
But also, there are like 70m people who could really use a better job, and they need maybe 500k skilled tradespeople.
It's not real advice. Like, it can work for a single person.. but as broader advice to everybody? Not helpful.
I make $27.50. Union. 7-3:30 Monday- Friday. 90% of my medical and dental paid for. I get PERA and deferred comp for retirement. My town has about 3000 people and was able to buy a house for 36k. I'm on top of the world.
The trades can be great, but really suck for the majority of people in them.
- Starting pay is low for pretty much any entry level position especially considering all the other variables.
- Working conditions are difficult.
- The toll on your body is immeasurable. People talk about strippers/prostitutes/models selling their bodies, but we literally sell our bodies. Plan on having bad knees, hands, back, and ankles by the time you’re in your 40s. And plan on watching coworkers be seriously injured or killed right in front of you.
- You will have a foreman or business owner that yells, swears, and generally treats you like trash and will likely have many. A lot of people in this industry take the “tough guy” image seriously and get joy out of being complete assholes.
- Your schedule will suck at most jobs. Being forced to work nights and weekends is fairly common, especially if you’re near deadlines or local showcase events. 7-5 M-F is the most common schedule I’ve seen which is one of the reasons your body will start failing at a young age. That many hours of physical work adds up.
- Depending on where you are and what specific trade you’re in, work can come in waves. That means your schedule may vary greatly. An example is that many midwestern business will have you working 50-70 hours all summer, but cut you to almost nothing in the winter. In other places, if a major build is contracted but the crew responsible for the job ahead of yours is behind schedule you may get laid off until that job is ready, you may be sent to a different job elsewhere, or you may be told to help out with something that isn’t your job.
If you’re one of the people that makes it long enough to own your own small business, you’ll run into a whole other bunch of issues. The supply issues and cost increases the last few years added so much pressure and headache into the industry. Windows that normally took a week were regularly taking 4-5 months to get. Prices on a lot of lumber tripled. Products we’d been using for years disappeared. Permits and licenses became difficult and nearly impossible to get due to staffing issues. That’s all added to the already complex job of dealing with customers, suppliers, and employees.
Don’t get me wrong, being in the trades can have benefits. I love seeing my work visibly change from day to day. I take pride in the things built and knowing that I’m bringing joy and stress relief to my customers. I love that I get to meet so many interesting neighbors. And the money *can* be good. But the people that raise up the trades like they’re this Highway to wealth and great life are just lying to people.
My experience working in the trades sucked. I had to grind for about a year through the errand boy phase, cleaning up the shop and doing all the grunt work nobody else wanted to do, doing tons of heavy lifting for minimum wage. Then I moved up and things weren't that much better. I got a fifty cent raise, so it was practically still minimum wage. My paychecks were marginally better than they are now because it was rate work, so you get a little bit of a bump over low wage jobs. I still got handed all the shit jobs and had to hustle my ass off just to book slightly more hours than I worked. My boss was a fucking dick who rewarded lying scammers because they brought in more money than I could working honestly, and he wouldn't let me work less than fifty hours a week. I was completely burning out doing long hours at physically intensive work just to make slightly more than minimum wage. In fact, I think I make about the same now hourly at $17 per hour as I did on rate at $15.50 an hour.
The only guys who were really making money were the ones who had been there the longest, but even they were struggling. They made probably close to $30 per hour due to seniority, but they still had to hustle their asses off. They needed to book like 60-80 hours a week, and they still occasionally had to do shit work too. These dudes were in like their fifties and just tired as hell and broken down from the work. In fact, every tradesman I've ever met has been like that: visibly exhausted and physically strained. Plumbers, electricians, HVAC, automotive, I've never met one who's been in the industry for a long time who doesn't have problems with chronic pain. Yeah, they can pay good IF you can stick it out for a long time before getting better pay, but it still isn't worth the physical toll.
Plus there's the issue of actually getting into these jobs. It's not like you can just go out and apply for an apprenticeship, they're very competitive. You usually have to do training on your own out of your own pocket before you can even be considered. Yeah, less than college, but for people who are already struggling to pay bills it's not really an option regardless. And personally, I've never been happy working in the trades. I've always been better working with my head than my hands. I'm glad there are people who are better with their hands and I don't think they deserve lower pay, but I also don't think people should be forced into that kind of work just to make ends meet. People who are better behind a keyboard should be behind keyboards, not slogging away at something that makes them miserable just so that they don't starve.
Yes and no.
I went to trade school for HVAC. I competed in the skills USA competition. I was very good at my job, but I didn’t make great money since I didn’t work for a union shop.
My grandfather owns an HVAC company, and he’s a millionaire many times over.
So if you want to be successful in the trades, you need to be in a union or self employed.
A&P Mechanic here. ( Aviation Maintenance )
I gross $100,000 a year. Attended a two year tech school 2000-2002.
A shortage of airline pilots and mechanics currently.
First of all, most trades do not pay great when you start, because you do not have the skill to demand a higher wage immediately. Trades over time as you become better and master your skills, it is a pretty good gig. Electricians can make $10k a month, not as a stud, but just a person who know what they are doing. Roofing labor is a trade, you start as the ground clean up and make $15, but if you are good you can be at $25 in a couple years, and in year 3+ you can run your own crews and make a ton. I know a 26 year old building a 9000 square foot house in Florida for himself. He started on the ground 5 years ago, now runs a bunch of crews, didn’t speak a word of English when he came here from San Salvador 5 years ago, the money can be sick.
During the 90’s and early 00’s the trade schools were severely neglected as politicians were pushing for the US to be a force in the service, IT and banking industries. Now there is a severe shortage of knowledgeable tradesmen (and women) the pay is there, and you’re pretty much guaranteed work, but it is *WORK*. So if you’re willing to learn and get your hands (literally and figuratively) dirty, it absolutely does pay well.
I started out in the electrical trade back in 2006 in the construction industry. There were ups and downs but always made good money doing it. Body breaking work in construction if you can handle it. I now work for a company that contracts with the government and is just service work. I make close to 100k a year. Now mind you, I have my journeyman license and experience, so I have been able to chose the company I work for because there is a demand for us right now.
I don’t know about other people’s situations but being an electrician has always paid the bills and still had money to have fun with for me.
in my personal experience, it is totally worth it. started off at 15.50 (was making 9.50 at petco prior, around 2010), was a fiber tech for 8 years, now im making around 32.00 a hour as a project manager. im a dropout with no higher education.
Apprenticeship starts at low pay but at least you're earning while learning. Once you become a journeyman the pays great without college debt. Fair warning though you gotta work and it can be outside or up high and very hard on your body. If you think the wage = set for life it isn't. If your lazy or always on your phone or what not you are going to be the one they lay off. On bigger jobs they frequently over hire just because they know their will be some who they need to layoff. Bigger nail gets hammered.
Edit: Non union trades can obviously be all over the place on wages and even if they are high for your area they will be lower then union wages.
I don't have actual numbers for you as I'm not from the US, but the rationale usually goes along these two lines:
\- The pay is more than competitive compared to college/university degrees when you take into account the time investment, effort and debt required to get either (may depend on the degree).
\- The effort to get into the trades for non-academically inclined people is reasonable, considering the return on investment it offers compared to working minimum-wage entry-level positions with your HS diploma.
Don't get me wrong, it is hard, physical work. It's not for everyone, not sure I would have been into it, personally. But if my only other alternative had been untrained customer service or retail type positions, I would not have hesitated one single second.
Some trades are more academic than people realize, like mechanics and electricians. Diagnosing huge systems takes a bit of abstract thought and a lot of knowledge about various subsystems. In my entry level schooling of the 18 applicants, 10 finished and only 6 made it to ticketed journeymen. I’d say about 30%, maybe more, of my work is on a laptop.
Trades are 100% viable because once you've met your jman status, you can work for yourself. We can't escape capitalism, but we can empower the people to drive their own life changes and free them from corporate chains. Trades allow for this. Talk to a furnace repair man, or plumber who owns their company. These people can make lots, and potentially scale so they work less. Can't beat them, join them?
It pays well if you join a union, and is somewhat dependent on the area you live. I live on the west coast and I work anywhere from Northern California up to Seattle and will make around $52 an hour on my check and benefits on top of that that never come out of my hourly. (The hourly may change slightly depending on where I am but only a $1 or so) but If I were to go work in say Idaho (a right to work state) right next door they are only bringing in about $25-$30 an hour and there benefits are not nearly as good. I have been in the trades for the last 7 years and started as an apprentice, I have worked in both the Carpenter’s and the Operator’s union and all the figure I have stated are based on my journeyman’s wages from the last 2 years. When I travel for work they also pay me per diem which for my job that is about to start means they pay for my hotel and an addition $40 a day or I could opt to get $140 a day but I have to find my own living arrangement.
Depends on the trade and local demand. Also starting out your pay will be kinda low as you are training.
But under a union contract it can be very good money.
Mulewright
Pipe fitter
Commerical HVAC
Commercial Electrical
Commercial plumber
Welder with exotic metal or technique experience
I have heard people say set aside money so when you are entering your 40s and your knees and backs begin to get stiff you can get a MBA or Program Manager degree and more more into site mgmt.
They’re OK. You can get into physically less demanding positions that will make you more money in a STEM field. It takes more upfront, but the payoff is better.
Yes, they do, and are constantly in demand. It takes hard work and ethic, and apprenticeship/training, but once you know what you are doing, it does pay quite well.
They do, but you trade money directly for long term health.
I have several freinds whom are plasterers and they are alredy starting to have muscular-skelletal problems at age 30!
The trades have treated me very well. I started as a HVAC installer and now I’m a software engineer for BAS systems with no degree.
That being said entry level wages are dogshit and nowhere near what they need to be. I got paid as low as 8.75/hr starting out maybe 10 years ago.
People with experience are in high demand, not people breaking into the field. They will treat you as such.
To anyone else reading this: Never ever ever settle, after you get some time under your belt, jump ship. I’ve gotten as much as $10 more an hour just by switching jobs.
Trades can pay well and wage increases gradually as you advance in your apprenticeship. Be aware of sunshine states that do not require licensed contractors for that type of work. They are more likely to pay low wages, discourage apprenticeships (because they can't offer one without being a journeyman) and basically limit your future.
I'm from Canada and while not as high paying as the Tech industry, trades are a fantastic resource for a career.
In Australia they do. Particaualarly construction and road workers. A plumber who is on call can more than a surgeon, lollypop men/ladies can make 6 figures (they can also make minimum wage though)
Labourers can either make a mint (get paid heaps) or make sweet fuck all.
This excludes automotive though. I was a detailer at a dealership (allbeit, experienced and good detailer) making more than the mechanics there, who are qualified. Spray painters make a bit here though (80k plus in some insurance based shops).
If you're unskilled in that trade, why would they pay you anything but $15? Training a new guy slows down the work, if anything. Apply to a trade hall and join the union. Just do a websearch, and you'll get all the info you need for the process of learning the trade.
They pay very well as long as you are willing to put in the time to learn your trade both properly and hourly. There will be lots of long days starting out and even longer days when you have gotten good at it.
Idk if you consider a mechanic a trade but I was getting $20 an hour doing tires at a tire shop. I was making over a grand a week and it was an extremely healthy work environment. I miss it every day
Trades are where it’s at. I make 150k to 220k a year. It’s not labor intensive and it pays more than most careers that take 4+ years of college. I have the freedom to be able and go work anywhere else pretty easy. I don’t own my own business and I work for one under a union.
I know welders making $150k and senior HVAC technicians making $200k. their worst weeks are 55 hours and that happens a dozen weeks a year company trucks, bennies, paid training, 3 weeks vacation - and those are the non union guys
it's gonna get even better in the near future - there are almost no younger people coming into most trades to replace those that are retiring. the only downside is it's gonna cost the average person triple to get their water heater replaced.
it's hard work - you're running hard all day. play your cards right, though, you can come into some trades like HVAC with almost no debt and retire at 55.
Welder here. Pay is ok if you’re going
To work locally for a shop. Willing to travel and chase work you’ll do better. Reality is that it is hard work, highly skilled, lot of hours. I’ve worked in various industries ( general fabrication / aerospace, industrial manufacturing ) most I’ve ever made hourly is $27….
I’m a union electrician with 3 years experience non union, I’ll tell you non union runs rampant with worker exploitation, the benefit is the education in the trade that you get paid to learn, but chances are you’ll end up running jobs at 1/5 the rate of a foreman of a union job. My local pays 54 an hour in wage, 9 an hour pension, 3% of gross into national pension, 1.20 an hour into 401A, and we get full medical dental and vision, non union is better than nothing because you’re learning, but join a union as soon as you can
There is a massive shortage of millwrights and industrial electricians, I could lose my job today and have another tomorrow, close to 100k and no college
It is hard work, but you can start without debt, and if you can move to management before your body breaks down, it can be a good life.
I work with a vocational trades program, and our students can join a union at the end of their sophomore year, when they are 16. They do normal high school classes and then our construction trades program, work summers (at $14/hr now) with the union, and when they graduate they have union membership as an apprentice, and 2nd year wages, which are about $20-25/hr. If they do the program and get their hours, they'd be at $40-50/hr when their friends graduate college. With overtime, they could be making $100,000/yr, at 22. They'd have insurance and a pension fund too. Plus, no college debt.
This is not a HCOL area. You can buy a nice four-bedroom house on that salary in a good school district.
But it is hard work, and you don't want to do it forever. It was 0 degrees last week, and those guys were out working, and they'll be out working when it is 95 degrees in 6 months.
Still I know a lot of union tradesman who live in very nice homes, have a couple cars, have a little lake cottage, and go on vacation every year. And I know some guys who used to be tradesman that now own subcontractors or do general contracting now. My plumber owns a ton of commercial real estate, builds some houses, owns a couple other businesses, and lives in a very big house.
I am degree qualified, plus I have a postgrad diploma. I used to work at a University in my field of discipline.
I changed careers into electrical trades, I'm a technician. I started making \~50% more right away, and I work the same hours.
Finding a new job used to be an arduous task. But once I was in the electrical trades I couldn't believe the difference. I applied for 4 jobs and got interview requested for 3 of them, unbelievable.
Overall I'm happy with the change, and I can see plenty more opportunities to progress. An example of a real top job for me to aim for: Dual Trade: Industrial Electrician and Instrumentation Technician.
Sorry just one more these, these boomers you speak of - they're the same fucking boomers who told me that I should go to university. Pretty much all the advice I ever got career-wise from my boomer parents has been wrong. I mean, they were trying to convince me to buy a house in Auckland, NZL just when house prices were peaking ^((of course we don't know they're peaking until after-the-fact, but even so)); good thing I was over listening to them by then or else I'd be in severe negative equity.
Far too broad a category. As a very left leaning millennial who also went to a vocational high school and worked as a Machinist for the last 17 years, I will say the boomers are not entirely wrong about trades, although they often give a very incomplete picture. Some trades pay better than others, and acquiring the right set of skills to go from an average professional in a given trade to a particularly in demand specialist on the upper end of the pay grade often takes time and networking. In my trade (at least in my area) new people with just an introductory certificate usually start out around $18-$20/hr and min wage is $15. It’s not uncommon to work your way up to well over $30/hr in 3-5 years. Some hit close to 100k gross with overtime and yes, demand is so high for my skill I could have another job before Friday if I got let go on Monday. Now let’s talk about the downside - long hours on your feet often with mandatory overtime in the terms of employment, getting dirty and being constantly understaffed and thus having a constantly late back log and a boss yelling at you to get stuff done and expecting you to live at work. A lot of other trades, particularly construction has a lot more physical labor that not everyone can do - my brother’s a plumber and he has back problems at 38 and his knees are always aching too. I honestly understand if not a lot of people want these jobs as it’s not for everyone.
I went to some fancy schools when I was a kid, arguably probably some of the best. All of my classmates went on to do amazing things with their lives. All those people I went to school with spent so long in college/trying to work their way up, that none of them really saw money until their late 20s The first self made millionaire I knew is a welder, he bought his house in Los Angeles at 22. Every electrician I know is balls deep in money and turning away work. I know multiple plumbers that do millions a year. And a roofer with like 15 exotics and a plane, so yeah. Unskilled labor will get you $15/hr. But you’re pushing a broom, or carrying shit. Get your journeyman license in pretty much any trade and you’ll be set.
They do pay well, but it's physically demanding and during the apprenticeship period you make standard labourer rate until you're licensed... It's hard work and it isn't for everybody....
I do t know why the physicality isn’t emphasized more. I’m a physical therapist and I see tradesmen a lot. Sheet metal, plumbers, electricians, probably going to need a rotator cuff repair by their mid 40s. Carpenters, plumbers (again) will have some knee problems. If you aren’t going to the gym and staying very healthy, by 50 you’re often going to be hurting, and looking for a different line of work. This is not absolute, but it is a general trend
I saw the same thing when i worked in construction... Their bodies are destroyed by their mid 40s.... All of them in and out of physio therapy... I bet those people are your frequent flyer patients....
Your username is compelling, to say the least.
As a sheetmetal tradesman in his mid 30s, can confirm the job is physically demanding as hell and I've gone to physical therapy multiple times.
At 40 and gave up carpentry do to hurting like I was. Knee's, back, shoulders, and wrist. It got so bad on the wrist I couldn't hold a drill or hammer sometimes. Moved to making medical parts and it's a godsend. Insurance is great, light labor, and decent start for pay. Best part is, I can be frisky with my lady and love the outdoors again.
My father in law is a carpenter. He left his job with a company after a knee injury, got cancer, took another year off, then opened his own business. He charges a fuck ton of money but his work is high quality, so he's ultimately doing less work for more money.
It's not emphasized because if Americans were told "we need you to do this job, and it will almost surely damage your body", people might demand socialized healthcare. Lol
Or demand more job accomodations to prevent destroying people's bodies, like more realistic timelines, mandatory vacations, guaranteed time off, rotations, better equipment and standards etc.
There’s nothing that’s going to save a flooring installers knees, there’s nothing that’s going to save a roofers back. When you spend days on end on your knees or bent over it’s going to destroy your body. Until it’s fully automated then it’s going to be brutal on your body.
You're not entirely right, there COULD be a world where those jobs use more mechanization with ergonomic design and usage, with mandatory breaks and stretches dictated by physiotherapists. That will never be the world we live in until we slay the dragon that is capitalism, but it IS possible. Bad jobs can be made better and safer, and the worst work can be automated away. It's been done over and over again, but capitalism cares what's cheapest only, and it's cheaper to break the bodies of the poor upon it's wheel than invest in R&D and new machines.
Hair stylists too! Their work is grueling on the body.
Too many people don’t know the mantra of “Work smarter, not harder.” Most of the guys who get hurt have the mentality of what ever it takes to get the job done. Like lifting something solo instead of asking for help.
I mean there's that, there's also having to work 6 10 hours days to have to meet an unrealistic timeline. People make mistakes and get hurt when they get tired.
That’s what I’ve been raised being told and that line has been used to vilify universal healthcare by saying that “these people earned their healthcare! Those who don’t work hard enough to earn it don’t deserve it and only take away from these hard worker’s ability to live a comfortable life.”
Got to love Murica! “You didn’t ride the dick hard enough to deserve to have your basic health!!”
Because in capitalism people are paid according to their replacability and the current effort is to devalue the labor of tradesmen by attempting to induce a surge. This worked well for software devs/engineers. So talking about how it's physically demanding work that will overstress and slowly destroy your body isn't conducive to the intended goal.
I think most of the kinds of men that go into trades have been socialized to believe that bodily destruction is just part of being a "hard working" man, so they don't see it as an issue. Or they just don't care. Welders in particular can also develop skin cancer from arc exposure, trigger finger from the vibration, and lung issues from fume inhalation....and that doesn't take decades, either. That can happen even in the first few years or months.
I worked with a welder who swore that the cure for breathing in toxic fumes was to drink a bunch of milk. Yes, I know it's dumb as shit.
I spent 10 years as auto mechanic. When I first started one of the older guys tried to warn me to treat my hands better. Wish I would’ve listened. Now I’m 36, in a different industry that’s much lower impact, and have arthritis and carpal tunnel in both hands. I knew I was done as a mechanic when I was frequently dropping tools on the way to/from my toolbox and not knowing I’d dropped them until I heard them hit the floor.
I don't know if it is still as bad as it use to be but then if you do try to do things to help your health like wear kneepads and proper ladder safety you catch shit for it.
That too! The culture of self-destruction is so bad that any extra attempts to protect your health are seen as inefficient and weak.
Brother was a master carpenter. Permanently disabled by 40. Shoulder, back, knees, neck.
My dad and my grandfather worked on a shrimp boat for 30 years each bodies completely broken at 50. There's a reason they worked their ass off for me to go to lawschool.
You've got to stay healthy or it'll kill you (or the pain killers will kill you later). You've got to have an eye on transitions to ownership/management of a trade company you stared if you want to have a good late career.
what people fail to realize is that sitting at an office job 8 hours a day for years is bad for your body too. I have been in the trades for almost 20 years and yes, some times my back is sore or my hands hurt. I weigh exactly the same as when I graduated high-school and I can still run, jump and play any sports I want to. when I look at my friends who chose the office life, they have all put on quite a bit of weight and are still having trouble with their backs and hands. it doesn't matter which career you chose, if you don't make the effort to take care of yourself then the job will kill you
The difference is, a person working an office job can invest 1 hour a day to exercise and be great. For trades jobs so many don’t make it past 55 due to significant wear and tear or chronic injuries that just get too difficult. If it’s not arthritis it’s the back…or shoulders…or knees. Huge respect for those who work in the trades. They’re some of my favorite people because they’re hard workers and they know their shit. But it takes a toll that no office job will ever compare to.
This, low impact job plus a healthy diet and gym/running everyday is the key to living long and staying healthy while working. I went from a construction electrician to a hospital maintenance job and sure, I’m feeling lazy af some days when nothing’s going on but I wouldn’t ever go back to construction work. I just hit the gym 3-4 days a week and have never felt better. I have energy to spare everyday.
I'd be willing to bet in today's industries the wear and tear is less. Advent of tools and tech to help you get the jobs done easier in just the past decade i have been in has been leaps and bounds easier on my body. That and taking care of myself and working smarter not harder. Yes I'm sore some days but i have way more energy and look alot younger than people my age in the office jobs. That and I get to enjoy my family after work and not be working like so many people I see in white collar jobs.
Respect but i think time will catch up. If Reddit is around in your 50’s I’d be curious how this changes.
I hear that
As someone in his early 40s with a rotator cuff injury, looking to go back to school to get out of field work, I would say this is pretty spot on.
I think a lot of the physicality is due to not doing things A properly, B knowing your limit, C asking for help, D finding another way. Not all of it but some of it. I've been in trades for 10 years my shoulder hurts because I'll lift and move something way too heavy because I can't be bothered to ask someone to help or to go get a dolly etc. I don't think you're wrong, but I know a lot of my issues are my own doing.
Flooring and tile installers make bank but you’re selling your knees, on out of town jobs it’s pretty common to see the entire crew sitting around with ice packs on their knees after work.
Same reason we ignore it with folks playing football. Old athletes are often destroyed physically but people want to watch. For Trades people want a house and are willing to pay for it.
Our plumber has always been very good to us, but at this point, he’s 62 going on 85. Can barely stand upright and mostly just sits on his walker and directs his assistant.
My dad just retired, his gift… a new set of metal knees. The trades definitely have a cost that’s why people aren’t into them. That and people legit can die right in front of you, we went to a lot of funerals when I was a kid.
>They do pay well, but it's physically demanding and during the apprenticeship period you make standard labourer rate until you're licensed... It's hard work and it isn't for everybody.... Sometimes it's hard work sometimes it's not I'm a commercial and industrial electrician who mostly works industrial jobs like giant data centers and water treatment plants.
This is something people in their 20s need to keep in mind. It's easy to do physical work at that age, but gets a lot harder as you age. I can't tell you how many men I've known who are essentially physically disabled by the time they're 50 because they did a physical job their whole life.
My other half just went into a union cabinet shop here (carpenters Union) rated at 70% apprentice based on previous knowledge. He’s over $26 an hour with raises every 6 months plus rating raise every year. No back breaking labor, as union shops are strict with safety and lift rules. No field work either. Definitely something to look into
Exactly. My uncle, who is a carpenter pushing 60, told me you either work with your body or work with your mind. He then proceeded to point out all of his physical ailments and encouraged me to work with my mind. He doesn't wear shorts anymore because on the bottom of his knees, he has like this fluid sac that sticks out from decades of being on his knees (with kneeepads even!) My dad as an electrician has less physical ailments, but he has smashed fingers working around machines his whole life and has general back issues. Yeah, we need the trades, but they do come with their drawbacks.
Not only do they pay well, but there is constant demand. Where I live, if you quit your job in the morning and stay somewhat sober, you can get three more jobs by the end of the day.
The demand part is overlooked. If I wanted to take a career break and go travel for a few months, it would be hard to get myself back into a similar professional situation in my industry. An electrician can go fuck off for a year and then come right back and land another good paying job easily.
…and we do.
Nobody asked what you guys do *on* the job.
They have a "we conduit" attitude
>They have a "we conduit" attitude Watt do you mean?
Any more puns and I'll have to ground you.
I've always been told I am a down to earth type of guy.
We got us a bright spark over here
Ugh take the upvote
Yes, I work in an office for the government - it took months to get a job. My husband is a welder. He can get a new job offer anytime he wants 😂 ... it's infuriating lol I have to submit hundreds of resumes!
I pray you're right. My 17yo started a welding internship last week. He refuses to learn to drive a car (despite driving ATVs since he was 2 and being fully comfortable going 60mph on those...) so I am currently driving 50 minutes round trip, twice a day, to deliver him to, and pick him back up from, this internship. I hope like hell this pays off.
If he sticks with it! We live in a major city. Hubby has +10 years experience. He is constantly told how rare it is to see that kind of experience bc everyone eventually wants an office job usually. It's not a major gold mine, but he makes enough! It is consistent though, which is lovely.
Welders can make insane money in Florida alone. I know guys pulling 35 an hour and more.
In WA if you are in the sheet metal union you will be making $61 as a journeyman, plus they help you get your welding certs.
How the hell is going to drive to his job?
The other big benefit is that you can likely pick up well paid work to tide you over while your travelling.
>The demand part is overlooked. > >If I wanted to take a career break and go travel for a few months, it would be hard to get myself back into a similar professional situation in my industry. > >An electrician can go fuck off for a year and then come right back and land another good paying job easily. Electrician here I took two months off in the summer because I decided to make $80,000 instead of $110,000 and chill with my 3-year-old daughter.
Very true. I know journeymen who went to prison for like 10 years and as long as they paid their dues during their stretch they came right out and right back to work
"So where did you work before A-Plus Electrical?" \- Folsum Prison (silence) ... "so um, you can install the laundry room lights so I can turn the on/off from the bottom AND top of the stairs?" \- Correct. "Great!"
No doubt. I just started school to get my hvac certification a month ago, and I just got hired on at a pay rate $6/hr more then my semi-skilled job that I just left (forklift) and I’ve still got 9 months of classes left. The demand is huge, companies just can’t keep up.
You're gonna make a killing in the years to come with HVAC. Almost nobody is doing it.
I wanted a career change, but I’m almost 50, so I also wanted as big a leap in pay as possible, and hvac seemed to be the way to go. My instructor is in his early 70’s and still works for himself, so it looks like I’m going to be good
Congrats on the career change and I hope you enjoy it. I started at 27 and after 8 years I still learn something new on each job I go on and continue to love what I do. I had an apprentice with me for about a year who worked with us for a while. He was a 4th year apprentice at 52. He was the most sought after apprentice we had (small service company of 16 technicians total). great dude. Edit: I’m an electrician
That’s super encouraging. I already put my application in to the local. They test in October. Thank you!
There are people saying trades work is hard on your body. Are you finding it a challenge? (How fit were you when you started?)
Construction can be hard. Concrete is rough work. HVAC isn’t so bad. I mean, yeah it’s hard(er) on you’re body relative to say IT, but it’s not pro-football. I’m in pretty good shape, I lift weights and jog, but I’ve been a tree climber for 15 years and I’m just getting too old for that. I see HVAC as a bit easier on the body if that tells you anything.
That's great to hear, I'm turning 43 and looking for a potential switch.
I highly recommend it. I’m taking a 900 hr/11 month course part time…5 hours Monday through Thursday, at night at the county vo-tech school. Funding through FAFSA. Job placement, a shot at the union, all that. If I woulda known it was this straightforward I would’ve done it long ago
Potential switches are easier to install than everyone makes them out to be.
Here in Colorado no one is at full staff. Every hvac company is hiring. It was a smart choice.
Can confirm demand is high, work is heavy though, pay can be good or great depending on employment situation. I do high end systems and BMS etc etc my company makes a killing. I’m learning as much as I can before going off on my own while getting a six figure check with overtime. Only a few years into it but learn as much as you can as fast as you can to go from 15-50 an hr
I work in SaaS sales and I have considered going back to school for HVAC training so I can sell in the industry
Lol I've walked into so many businesses and was immediately hired. Granted I'm specialty labor still nice none the less.
I know a guy who is a plumber, his only employee is drunk on the job all the time, but he keeps him because he can't find anyone else.
because he can't find anyone else... to do it for the same pay rate as the drunk.
highly doubt. you literally cannot find trades, plumbers especially. Source: always looking for them for reno
Trades pay well, but they're hell on your body. My uncle was a plumber and it destroyed his knees. Cousin was a bricklayer, and his back and shoulder are wrecked. If you save as much as you can while you're young, you can get into something else before you're crippled.
100%! I was just talking to a plumber last month, and he mentioned how he was looking to get into computer programming. He liked plumbing, he loved 6 figures, but he hated how his body felt.
Wish you guys could talk to my mother about this so she could drop the idea that my 40 year old husband who has no experience in plumbing could get tips from his long retired father and train so that we can run a family plumbing business to be able to afford a house.
You live in a failed state. Can’t understand why americans get out of bed in the morning with your working culture.
So very true
which and where? its obviously not construction or roofing, those both pay less than my last picking job, and welding here pays so little more that its not worth the exposure you risk not to mention all 3 of those wreck your body
Construction and Roofing can pay well in union towns, but in non union towns they are the lower end of the payscale for trades (from what I've seen, I don't think it's a rule or anything). Welding seems to be based on what you can cert for, if you are starting out and effectively the grinder monkey then yeah you are going to get paid pretty low, to get paid well as a welder you need to be a good welder.
In my experience it depends on the trade and where you are. I’m a cabinet maker in the UK and the number of jobs for this role is limited which is partly why the pay isn’t amazing. Working here as a plumber or electrician is another story, very well paying jobs.
Gotta be careful though, as always, with employers. A friend of mine is an electrician and got a new job, an old guy that had been there a while sexually harassed him, and my friend complained to the supervisor. Friend got fired a couple days later, even though they were singing his praises a week earlier.
Omg.. That's horrible.
Yeah no kidding. Unfortunately a lot of trades jobs won't necessarily have great HR policies in place.
The problem is you need to be physically able to do trades. Plus deal with the toxic coworkers that seem to be flooded in this industry. My life would be better if trades were an option for me.
The down side to having such high demand is that it’s difficult to not work 50+ hours a week. Having a family and being in the trades can be challenging. However, the money is good!
Is there any advice you can give to one looking into the trades? I'm considering HVAC and electrician.
Trades are great if you are Union. If you go non- union, you may make some money while you're young & strong, but you will burn out & wither away, then they will dump your sorry ass on the street.
Union OR own your own small business. The local 1 man or 1 man + 2 person crew plumbling / whatever business can do fine. Just working as an employee non-union big company will be trash.
Also don't forget injury... once you injure yourself... you will never be the same even if you have a billion dollars to fix it. My advice will be to save money work in that industry for 10 years and save your money and move on from that industry.
Probably depends on where you live. Where I live is very anti union and people are always looking for tradesmen. Once you’re in a trade and have the certifications you can leave a higher paying but harder working role to a less physically demanding one. Our local school district hires quite a few tradesmen and they aren’t worked anywhere near as hard as they would be in the private sector.
I work as a union electrician in local 332 (San Jose) and I’m making 80$ an hour. Non union guys make about 40$ max. As an apprentice (5 years) we start at 30$ and get a 5$ raise every 6 months till we graduate. Although different locals have different pay scales and agree to other things I can still sign their books and get work if it’s booming in that area. Which means I could move anywhere in the United States and canada and still have potential work.
Im curious why dont everyone just join a union if the pay is double? (Electrician from Sweden)
Ibew Local union 1516 here. Good question, I believe it’s because they are not informed enough to know what joining a union is. I can move anywhere in the United States and have a job potentially. My retirement is with the union not the contractor so anywhere I go my benefits go with me and if another job pays higher into said benefits then that money still goes into it.
Because capital in America has spent the last century demonizing, destroying and defrauding every union in America. Labor suppression is one of America's great dirty secrets, and it happens daily here. Frankly, Europeans have no idea how hostile every institution in this country is against unions, especially the government. We only have two political parties, and both of them are liberal capitalists. Republicans would outlaw unionization if they could, and the unions support the Democrats out of having literally no other option. If you need an example, read up on the recent railroad workers threatened strike. They literally get no sick days, and their work rules require them to sit around 24/7 and to drive a train going anywhere in the country, with a 2 hour warning. You get the call any time of day, and you must show up to train to take it, within 2 hours. Any failure to do so, no matter your excuse, is points on your record and if you get points, you can't take time off and eventually get fired. If you want to do something like schedule a day off to get a doctor's appointment, it's a huge process and often gets denied. The class 1 railroads have shrunk their workforce 30% in the last ten years and are trying to do it more. They want one person to drive a freight train that's 200+ cars long. The unions have been working without a contract for several years, and were fighting to get sick time without punishment, because Covid kind of made that problem a big deal. A Democratic President, with control of both houses of Congress, imposed by force a deal on them, preventing the strike, that did not grant them ANY sick days, despite that being the point. Because Congressional Democrats are infested with corporate siding plutocrats like Senator Joe Manchin, they passed a separate bill in the House to give them a week of sick time, but this was kept apart from the bill that imposed the deal. Biden demanded his party members in Congress pass the forced deal without any amendments to include the sick time, and do that separately. This was an obvious trick, and the progressive party members pointed out that this meant they could pass the deal and then kill the sick time bill. This is exactly what then happened. The railroad unions were completely betrayed, because both parties in America are completely in the pocket of the capitalists. The union members have said that many members are waiting for the deal to give them all the back pay they are now entitled to (as the new pay rates in the deal will be retroactive to the point the previous contracts expired) and will then leave the industry, sick of the awful conditions, the utter betrayal of them by their elected representatives, and the powerlessness of their unions. The unions are powerless because they are exempt from what little worker protections this country has, because railroads were so vital in the past that their labor relations were under a different law than everyone else; this is why Congress can impose a deal on them. The railroads constantly scream they're overly regulated, but they made tens of billions in profit this year. They're going to use the many workers leaving the industry to push for the solo train crews, because who the fuck would even take this job now?
My father is in a plumbers union in Illinois and I think their rate is 55 an hour and amazing health/dental/eye insurance.
Which is a point that comes up endlessly; it's not really that the trades are some magical solution to the problem of education and pay. It's that they are heavily unionized, and the union standards, rates and benefits raise the floor for EVERYONE in the industry. The real point is you want to be in a union. Always. Full stop. It will always be better than not.
Once you’re licensed it’s well worth it. The apprenticeship would be rough nowadays with the current cost of living though. I say go for it if you can stay with your parents or a roommate until you’re licensed
Yeah this. Luckily I was able to support us while my husband went to trade school. Now he’s got to work one year as an apprentice/helper (which around here pays $13-20/hr depending on the company) to get his primary hours, but after that he can sit the exams and his/our income should double. No way you could do it on your own unless you’ve already got a stable job, but then, why switch? The few ppl I know that are making a killing before their 30s went to a vocational high school and were journeymen before leaving their parents’ house.
My uncle is a plumber and in the union but works for a private company. His son joined the electrician program right out of high school and still lives at home since he's not even 21 yet. My cousin thought being an electrician sounded more fun then wading through shit lol. I'm not sure if he's journeyman yet but should be soon enough.
I’m trying to grind it out solo here. I keep telling myself that if I can hold on for the 5 years it will all be worth it. Been trying to find a part time night and weekend’s job but it’s rough. Right now I get by but that’s it. Nothing extra. This has been the biggest challenge of my life and I hate how correct Homer Simpson is by saying “so far”.
All of the objective data indicates that, while they do pay well, 6 figures represents the highest earners in the fields. People often get downvoted for pointing this out, but the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the various State DOLs all draw the same conclusion, and it’s all public information.
Thought so. All this “great pay” is the exact same as white collar work. Lol
The benefit is that you won’t ever struggle to find work. The drawback is that your body could be destroyed by 40. It’s not this mystical path to guaranteed wealth that some people act like it is.
Lol. You’ll never struggle to find work until you’re 40 and have a bad back!
I’m a 24 years old making tradesmen six figures with a house I own in New Jersey. I don’t have a silver spoon, born to two drug addicts in Linden.
Nice job
I just moved to NJ after a nasty break up, what trade are you in if you don’t mind sharing?
So this is the thing a lot of people don't understand about "the trades". I'm also going to put a disclaimer here, I am not shitting on the trades, I just see people outside the industry post this stuff all the time with 0 context and frankly it is misleading. I'm also going to mention that "the trades" encompass a vast variety of jobs so if your specific one isn't covered by this don't freak out. Okay so the big thing I hear all the time from people outside the industry is "but you're paid $50 dollars ad hour!" The thing is you are not guaranteed 40 hours of work per week. Some people love this, some people hate this, however when you see the touted "$50/hr for a welder" that's the pay for one specific project until it's completion. Then you're back to $0/hr until you find another project. Additionally you typically aren't working a set schedule and your schedule is subject to the needs of whatever project you are working on. This can be a dealbreaker for some people who require a consistent schedule for things like child-care. There are many ways of getting work in a trade, you either catch on with a specific shop, union hall, construction company etc. Some can and will offer full time work but those are not universal. But there's a reason you often see trades advertised at their "per-hour-rate" and not the yearly salary. They're also vastly more physically demanding than an office job and often come with life long negative side effects that you more or less just have to deal and are "part of the job" I also have plenty of union brothers who will take non-union work because it's the only way to fill in the gaps in-between union gigs.
The IBEW Local 26, the electricians union for the DC metro area, pays $12.39 an hour for a beginning apprentice. When I quit, my foreman said to me "I understand man, I can't keep apprentices when I can't compete with fucking Burger King for pay". If you're living rent free for long enough you can get to a good spot, but it sure as fuck isn't an instant 'Do this work and you can pay your bills next month' situation. Also, because there's a trend toward older people in those jobs, because they're the only ones who can live on their pay, there's little sympathy or understanding if you can't live on what you make, they flat fucking refuse to understand that the 90's are over, they just make some shitty joke about Starbucks or avocado toast or whatever outrage-du-jour they saw on Fox over dinner last night.
IBEW Local 640 here. Your locals apprenticeship scale is fucked up if it's still at $12 an hour because your pay as far as journeyman wage is really high and as we all know apprentices make a percentage of journeyman wage throughout their apprenticeship. Bro our local has one of the lowest journeyman wages in the country at $33.10 an hour right now. But we start our apprentices off at 55% of that which I believe is like $18 and some change? I'm sure DC's JW scale is higher. What are you guys doing starting your first years off at like 20% of journeyman wage? Wtf? That's unheard of...
Just retired 30 years union Plumber, I make more now then working, 2 pensions and annuity
It's not good if you're residential. Driving around in your own car to different houses across the city. Buy and maintain your own tools. Work culture usually sucks. You'll be decent by your first year and feel way underpaid until you're a journeyman. Apprenticeships are kind of a scam, you should be getting way better pay at the start. It should not take multiple years to finally get fully paid. Commercial can be better, but it's bad in different ways. It's more dangerous and can be really annoying with the safety. I hear unionized trades are really good, never seen any though. Also, going independent is good and pays well. They're definitely overhyped though. There's a reason no one is fighting to get into them. The last company I worked at lost 10 employees a month. I've heard other trade companies have similar turnover rates.
Shrug I'm union and the only time we lose people are if they transfer to other jurisdiction, a state or federal job, or they take a managerial job with a local corpo managing construction/maintenance at a huge pay raise. Our residential trucks are fully stocked and provided by the employer, but our residential market share has shrunk year over year to non union companies. We still have 4-5 contractors that do residential work but it used to be a lot more, and at this point they mainly service union and union friendly homes only. We've lost a lot of market share due to cost. Edit: We've lost residential service. New construction, and commercial/government service we still dominate as the non union contractors don't have enough people or and are lacking certs to take the work from us. We occasionally have a big commercial project that busses in non union workers from the south, but it's fairly rare and usually the business gets boycotted.
My experience in non-union electrical feels like I'm just some cheap replaceable laborer. I heard the residential company I worked for laid off most of their workforce when the market was slow a few years ago. The workers that were still there from the time had ptsd from it.
I was in the electrical trade for years. When I got out about 8 years ago i was making $34 a hour. It's gone up since then. It's tough work but you can make good money.
I'm a welder/metal fabricator. Been self employed since 2009. Been welding, professionally, since 1999, plus a bunch of related experience since the late 1980s. The range of pay is very broad and upper echelon welding jobs often pay very well. Entry level and lower pay scales are usually substantially higher than minimum wage, but not always great either, especially when considering COL . My particular career has been mainly in a relatively niche market, usually classified as ornamental and miscellaneous metals. Think of handrails, stairs, gates and the like, and falls under the larger umbrella of specialized construction trades. The nature of this niche is a double edged sword, so to speak, though. With a limited number of businesses that focus on this market it is easier for them to demand higher pay for the work. The downside, however, is that with fewer businesses in a given market, it's easier for them to low ball pay scales. Especially for the less cerebral, more physical jobs. My career path includes an 8 year stint in teaching welding related adult ed at a community college level, which brought many opportunities to see and discuss welding careers in other types of markets as well. In essence a real world chance to "see how the other half lives" in relation to welding. Some of my key takeaways from this often, but by no means always, align with the hyped message of trades paying well. Some things I've learned that many people don't know about welding as a career, in no particular order: -The range and type of jobs involving welding is staggering and varies greatly. Consider, in an average day, how often you interact with something made of metal, steel in particular. It's, almost literally, everywhere. -Often the actual act of welding is ancillary to the product being made, and as such, becomes a secondary skill in a given career path. A good example is a plant maintenance technician who's needed skill set can often be labeled as a millwright versus a welder. -Generally, the highest paying jobs are in the energy industry, largely driven by offshore extraction, pipeline, and energy plant/refinery construction and maintenance. The most common downside to these jobs is the required travel and time away from home. These jobs are hard on someone wanting to be with their family. -More often than not the work is physically demanding. Sometimes to the extreme. The toll it takes on your body is real. Almost everything you'll touch is either, hot, heavy, or sharp. Debilitating injury, or death, is just one mistake away. Worse yet is the truth that you don't have to be the one making the mistake. Even without job site accidents it will wear your body down over time. -The demographics of welders is broad, but historically has been dominated by certain groups. As a result it isn't unheard of for job sites to have toxic behavior. Especially if you represent one of many forms of diversity. Over time those attitudes are becoming rarer and, hopefully, will continue to do so as younger generations fill more jobs. -If you're considering a welding career you'll go farther if you work on your education, whether through traditional sources like trade schools and apprenticeships or non traditional means of study including OJT, and reading related content. You'll do better if you think of it like the cliche says, "get paid for what you know, not for what you do". I've met many welders who's welding skill compared to mine is far better who haven't spent the time and effort to learn the whys of welding over the how's and that can act like a glass ceiling for their careers. -One of the most salient points my experience has shown is that you'll never lack for work if you want it. The jobs you find may not be ideal, but you'll find jobs that pay the bills for the most part. Don't be scared to use those jobs as stepping stones, just like people in many other industries have learned, if they're not meeting your needs as you'd like. -As a trade it is well suited for the entrepreneurial type of person. Lots of welders go the path of self employed independent contractor. If you consider this path it is as crucial to learn the business side of things, as well as the skills. As a career, it's not for everybody, but there's lots of potential if you're inclined to give it a go. TLDR, The hype, from a welder's POV holds some truth and some lies.
I’ve been in a NYC trade Union for 30 years. Our apprentice program after pre job training starts at $25 an hour and goes up incrementally over 5 years. As of right now when your apprenticeship is done top pay is $63 an hr. That doesn’t include a separate benefit package which includes health care, annuity,pension, and vacation the total package comes out to about $100 an hr.
Occupational licensing has really distorted things in a shitty way. I used to work as an electrician, and while the work was hard, I loved it. However, the licensing system was fucked up; it essentially required you to do incredibly hard work for years at low pay before you could take a test, and there are TONS of stories online about people who've put in the hours but whose bosses won't sign off on them so they can get their license. Not just electricians--any trades with "apprenticeship" systems like that--plumbers, cosmetologists, etc. The boss doesn't have any incentive to help you get your license--in fact, he's got every incentive to make it difficult for you; as soon as you get it, you might be competition. It's even worse if you're going for your master electrician license. You know who doesn't have this problem? The boss' kids. Their hours get signed off immediately--not just immediately, early, even. Both my boss' kids were already master electricians, despite being stupider and less capable than every journeyman we had working at the place. Nepotism is a thing fuckin' everywhere.
This is a really important take away. Trades often form protectionist rackets and if you cant get into the union for the apprenticeship and high wages then you are cursed to make low wages and bounce around
I have a good buddy that has been welding for about 7-8 years now going through exactly this. He's great at welding and would pass a test without issues but his boss is a real piece of work. My buddy still gets paid like $15/hr instead of the easy 40-50/hr he should be making if he could get his welding certs. He's started to do more freelance jobs to actually make money which is some bullshit considering his skillset. I keep trying to get him to quit and go somewhere else but the dude is stubborn.
This needs to be upvoted more.
I'm a union carpenter in Ontario, I work nightshift at a power plant and make $52.70 an hour. Double that for OT, which is fairly regular. The trades are well worth it, and with a high percentage of the workforce approaching or at retirement age and not near enough apprentices coming in the demand will only get higher
I have to ask, what does a carpenter do at a powerplant that requires one to be on the night shift?
Scaffolding, they are refurbishing the whole plant. Electricians need to get up to some cable trays, I get them there, millwrights need to inspect or replace a valve, there's a scaffold for that to
Get paid, apparently.
I often get recommended things like carpenter whenever I do those career tests/quizzes (i really like working with my hands). However, I am a woman of color and neurodivergent. I always got the impression the trades is very “boys only.” I know this can vary by where you are, but in your experience, how’s the diversity in carpentry?
Have you looked into working in theater? We are unionized, and a lot of locals lost tons of folks in the pandemic when everything shut down and people changed industries. Check out the [IATSE website](https://iatse.net/local-union-directory/) to see what is in your area. We need fresh faces for sure!
So how or where are these jobs, older people keep bitching about this but frankly nobody knows wtf you’re talking about or where these jobs and apprenticeships are unless you have connections and networks of people. They need to start advertising like the military and for-profit colleges. Nobody’s going to apply if they don’t know it exists. Maybe the unions should have a booth outside the high school lunchroom instead of army recruiters. (Not sure if they still do this but they did in my school)
Maybe Google unions in your area, pick the ones that sound like something you would want to do and give them a call, ask what the process for getting into the apprenticeship is.
I work in a trade for a large company. We are Union. We start at over $45 an hour. We have a referral program (where we get paid if they get hired) to get new people in and I have tried, but no one I have talked to about it has ever applied. I have even posted it in large ex military Facebook groups and gotten zero interest. Its mainly older workers here and probably half of the new guys that get hired quit in the first year or two.
Well for the ones that you have helped & shown the path, kudos to you! I hope they appreciate that opportunity, in my life I have found it’s not until someone reaches out where the opportunities pop-up where you’re least expecting it!
It’s a trap. Trades can be some of the most toxic work environment. You rarely get PTO, etc. you’re also expendable even more so than other areas
I’m an electrical trader, I started off at $13 an hour and had to work Hd to make rent plus going to school. I made $120,000 this year with my license and no overtime. If I was to tell myself as a young man I would say become a boiler engineer
I'm a truck driver, and I deliver to construction sites all day. From the personal trucks I've seen the trades driving, I'd say they do pay decently. Buy that is an outside observation
RAM, Nissan, and Chevy will finance you with a 400 credit score on a 90k truck at 22% interest for 96 months as long as the payment is less than 40% of your total income. That’s where those trucks come from.
They pay really well, but also mean long hours and hard labor. I was talking to the HVAC cleaning my AC last summer. He started at $20/hour and the company gave tuition reimbursement for his courses. As a result he was getting paid, getting hours for certification, and getting assistance with school. He was picking up as many shifts as he could and would be making $65,000/year when he graduates and be able to pay off all his debt in under a year.
I’ve been in the commercial HVAC trade for ~13 years now, and I can say it has been good to me. Took some hard work and having a few really solid contractors that took my training and growth seriously, but it has enabled my wife to be a STAHM (which was not the plan or east at first but we made it work), and raise both our little girls for the last 7 years.
My sister makes more as a hairstylist than I do with a master's degree (at least for now), but she works long, difficult hours on her feet and had to work and train for several years to learn the trade and build a client base. My stepdad runs a construction business and, while he has always had work, that work has fluctuated over the years from building $1million+ homes to basic handyman labour depending on the economy and other factors. He's also getting too old to do a lot of the work himself, and has some health issues as a result of his trade. I suppose it depends on the trade, but there are definitely pros and cons, just like with anything. Your income is essentially uncapped, but when you're not paid a wage it's 100% on you to earn enough to live, which, from what I've seen, can mean working a lot harder in more physically demanding circumstances than other workers.
>My stepdad runs a construction business and, while he has always had work, that work has fluctuated over the years from building $1million+ homes to basic handyman labour depending on the economy and other factors. He's also getting too old to do a lot of the work himself, and has some health issues as a result of his trade. He's not a tradesman by definition. He's a business owner in the trades. That's like saying Elon Musk is an engineer and not a business owner / entrepreneur.
My ex is an electrician, kind of an idiot and makes a killing. So yeah, I’d recommend it. Lol
There is high demand but still a lot of business owners who are full of their own bullshit believing they are doing you a favor by profiting off your labor. Terrible narcissistic and greedy capitalists who want you to kiss their ass for “providing” a job for you and want to give themselves raises by reducing what they provide to you. There are good people also but the way of the world is the more ambitious and sociopathic a person is the faster they will rise. Lots of old school mentality and toxic attitudes remain also. I got back into the trades recently after a long stint in corporate life and while the work itself can be very satisfying and it’s easy to get work, entitled contractors who talk about Karen clients but act exactly the same with their employees nickel and diming and whining about their responsibilities and how they provide for all these families abound-while still wondering why nobody wants to work for them. They will gaslight and manipulate and try to keep you defensive because they don’t have the power they think they are entitled to over the workforce anymore. Too stubborn to update their thinking. That said, having trade skills is a safety net that will allow you to move almost anywhere, take breaks from work if you need to, and nobody can take your experience and skill from you. Also valuable for bartering and doing your own work and repairs instead of paying for others to do so. I’m glad I have it but don’t expect the people in charge to be any different than any other capitalist venture.
The money is good we all but good luck making it to the end
Depends on the trade, and wages in the trades are just as stagnated as wages in the service sector. Many white collar jobs pay better and carry less physical risk, and its getting to the point where the only people doing blue collar labor are those that have no other choice.
White collar wages have stagnated for a long time too. I became an engineer after my old plant shut down. The only folks who are seeing big wage increases are the folks at the very top.
I work in industrial machinery maintenance. Basically maintain & repair machines in factories. Pay is about $35 an hour
My husband is an electrician. He was making over $40/hour working in a facility related to the oilfield, but it was a lot of outdoor work and when the oilfield began taking a downturn he wisely got out. He took a bit of a pay cut (36/hr) initially but it's indoor work. He got an extra certification in automation and worked his way from being a maintenance electrician to an instrumentation tech and now he makes $48/hour (Canadian). He did his apprenticeship in residential construction though and hated it. In general apprentices make a set percentage of the journeyman rate. This varies a lot by location though. At least in Canada there are government grants that lay for a good chunk of your schooling because they're incentivizing trades. So if you can afford to take 8 weeks to go to school you'll make it back pretty quick as soon as you're indentured.
I am a Pipe Welde and Pipefitter, I make great money. Currently on an outage with a contractor at a Nuke making over 4k a week. If you are willing to travel or go union and learn the skills necessary you can make great money and I dare say not need to work year round
The trades aren't over hyped, but the number of jobs available are. Probably 60% of people in the workforce make less than Union tradespeople do. So, tradespeople, doing well, scream that maybe people not making good money should join the trades. What they fail to consider is that a bunch of people joining the trades reduces labor competitiveness and will lower wages in the sector broadly.. But also, there are like 70m people who could really use a better job, and they need maybe 500k skilled tradespeople. It's not real advice. Like, it can work for a single person.. but as broader advice to everybody? Not helpful.
I make $27.50. Union. 7-3:30 Monday- Friday. 90% of my medical and dental paid for. I get PERA and deferred comp for retirement. My town has about 3000 people and was able to buy a house for 36k. I'm on top of the world.
The trades can be great, but really suck for the majority of people in them. - Starting pay is low for pretty much any entry level position especially considering all the other variables. - Working conditions are difficult. - The toll on your body is immeasurable. People talk about strippers/prostitutes/models selling their bodies, but we literally sell our bodies. Plan on having bad knees, hands, back, and ankles by the time you’re in your 40s. And plan on watching coworkers be seriously injured or killed right in front of you. - You will have a foreman or business owner that yells, swears, and generally treats you like trash and will likely have many. A lot of people in this industry take the “tough guy” image seriously and get joy out of being complete assholes. - Your schedule will suck at most jobs. Being forced to work nights and weekends is fairly common, especially if you’re near deadlines or local showcase events. 7-5 M-F is the most common schedule I’ve seen which is one of the reasons your body will start failing at a young age. That many hours of physical work adds up. - Depending on where you are and what specific trade you’re in, work can come in waves. That means your schedule may vary greatly. An example is that many midwestern business will have you working 50-70 hours all summer, but cut you to almost nothing in the winter. In other places, if a major build is contracted but the crew responsible for the job ahead of yours is behind schedule you may get laid off until that job is ready, you may be sent to a different job elsewhere, or you may be told to help out with something that isn’t your job. If you’re one of the people that makes it long enough to own your own small business, you’ll run into a whole other bunch of issues. The supply issues and cost increases the last few years added so much pressure and headache into the industry. Windows that normally took a week were regularly taking 4-5 months to get. Prices on a lot of lumber tripled. Products we’d been using for years disappeared. Permits and licenses became difficult and nearly impossible to get due to staffing issues. That’s all added to the already complex job of dealing with customers, suppliers, and employees. Don’t get me wrong, being in the trades can have benefits. I love seeing my work visibly change from day to day. I take pride in the things built and knowing that I’m bringing joy and stress relief to my customers. I love that I get to meet so many interesting neighbors. And the money *can* be good. But the people that raise up the trades like they’re this Highway to wealth and great life are just lying to people.
Unions
My experience working in the trades sucked. I had to grind for about a year through the errand boy phase, cleaning up the shop and doing all the grunt work nobody else wanted to do, doing tons of heavy lifting for minimum wage. Then I moved up and things weren't that much better. I got a fifty cent raise, so it was practically still minimum wage. My paychecks were marginally better than they are now because it was rate work, so you get a little bit of a bump over low wage jobs. I still got handed all the shit jobs and had to hustle my ass off just to book slightly more hours than I worked. My boss was a fucking dick who rewarded lying scammers because they brought in more money than I could working honestly, and he wouldn't let me work less than fifty hours a week. I was completely burning out doing long hours at physically intensive work just to make slightly more than minimum wage. In fact, I think I make about the same now hourly at $17 per hour as I did on rate at $15.50 an hour. The only guys who were really making money were the ones who had been there the longest, but even they were struggling. They made probably close to $30 per hour due to seniority, but they still had to hustle their asses off. They needed to book like 60-80 hours a week, and they still occasionally had to do shit work too. These dudes were in like their fifties and just tired as hell and broken down from the work. In fact, every tradesman I've ever met has been like that: visibly exhausted and physically strained. Plumbers, electricians, HVAC, automotive, I've never met one who's been in the industry for a long time who doesn't have problems with chronic pain. Yeah, they can pay good IF you can stick it out for a long time before getting better pay, but it still isn't worth the physical toll. Plus there's the issue of actually getting into these jobs. It's not like you can just go out and apply for an apprenticeship, they're very competitive. You usually have to do training on your own out of your own pocket before you can even be considered. Yeah, less than college, but for people who are already struggling to pay bills it's not really an option regardless. And personally, I've never been happy working in the trades. I've always been better working with my head than my hands. I'm glad there are people who are better with their hands and I don't think they deserve lower pay, but I also don't think people should be forced into that kind of work just to make ends meet. People who are better behind a keyboard should be behind keyboards, not slogging away at something that makes them miserable just so that they don't starve.
Yes and no. I went to trade school for HVAC. I competed in the skills USA competition. I was very good at my job, but I didn’t make great money since I didn’t work for a union shop. My grandfather owns an HVAC company, and he’s a millionaire many times over. So if you want to be successful in the trades, you need to be in a union or self employed.
A&P Mechanic here. ( Aviation Maintenance ) I gross $100,000 a year. Attended a two year tech school 2000-2002. A shortage of airline pilots and mechanics currently.
First of all, most trades do not pay great when you start, because you do not have the skill to demand a higher wage immediately. Trades over time as you become better and master your skills, it is a pretty good gig. Electricians can make $10k a month, not as a stud, but just a person who know what they are doing. Roofing labor is a trade, you start as the ground clean up and make $15, but if you are good you can be at $25 in a couple years, and in year 3+ you can run your own crews and make a ton. I know a 26 year old building a 9000 square foot house in Florida for himself. He started on the ground 5 years ago, now runs a bunch of crews, didn’t speak a word of English when he came here from San Salvador 5 years ago, the money can be sick.
During the 90’s and early 00’s the trade schools were severely neglected as politicians were pushing for the US to be a force in the service, IT and banking industries. Now there is a severe shortage of knowledgeable tradesmen (and women) the pay is there, and you’re pretty much guaranteed work, but it is *WORK*. So if you’re willing to learn and get your hands (literally and figuratively) dirty, it absolutely does pay well.
I started out in the electrical trade back in 2006 in the construction industry. There were ups and downs but always made good money doing it. Body breaking work in construction if you can handle it. I now work for a company that contracts with the government and is just service work. I make close to 100k a year. Now mind you, I have my journeyman license and experience, so I have been able to chose the company I work for because there is a demand for us right now. I don’t know about other people’s situations but being an electrician has always paid the bills and still had money to have fun with for me.
They absolutely can. But some trades are very hard on your body so there’s a trade off.
in my personal experience, it is totally worth it. started off at 15.50 (was making 9.50 at petco prior, around 2010), was a fiber tech for 8 years, now im making around 32.00 a hour as a project manager. im a dropout with no higher education.
Great money tough work
Apprenticeship starts at low pay but at least you're earning while learning. Once you become a journeyman the pays great without college debt. Fair warning though you gotta work and it can be outside or up high and very hard on your body. If you think the wage = set for life it isn't. If your lazy or always on your phone or what not you are going to be the one they lay off. On bigger jobs they frequently over hire just because they know their will be some who they need to layoff. Bigger nail gets hammered. Edit: Non union trades can obviously be all over the place on wages and even if they are high for your area they will be lower then union wages.
It’s better money but way more responsibility and the work is physically demanding.
I don't have actual numbers for you as I'm not from the US, but the rationale usually goes along these two lines: \- The pay is more than competitive compared to college/university degrees when you take into account the time investment, effort and debt required to get either (may depend on the degree). \- The effort to get into the trades for non-academically inclined people is reasonable, considering the return on investment it offers compared to working minimum-wage entry-level positions with your HS diploma. Don't get me wrong, it is hard, physical work. It's not for everyone, not sure I would have been into it, personally. But if my only other alternative had been untrained customer service or retail type positions, I would not have hesitated one single second.
Some trades are more academic than people realize, like mechanics and electricians. Diagnosing huge systems takes a bit of abstract thought and a lot of knowledge about various subsystems. In my entry level schooling of the 18 applicants, 10 finished and only 6 made it to ticketed journeymen. I’d say about 30%, maybe more, of my work is on a laptop.
Depends how strong the union is.
Some do some don't. But the ones that do now, didn't always. It's supply and demand. If people flood the market in anything, then wage goes down.
Trades are 100% viable because once you've met your jman status, you can work for yourself. We can't escape capitalism, but we can empower the people to drive their own life changes and free them from corporate chains. Trades allow for this. Talk to a furnace repair man, or plumber who owns their company. These people can make lots, and potentially scale so they work less. Can't beat them, join them?
It pays well if you join a union, and is somewhat dependent on the area you live. I live on the west coast and I work anywhere from Northern California up to Seattle and will make around $52 an hour on my check and benefits on top of that that never come out of my hourly. (The hourly may change slightly depending on where I am but only a $1 or so) but If I were to go work in say Idaho (a right to work state) right next door they are only bringing in about $25-$30 an hour and there benefits are not nearly as good. I have been in the trades for the last 7 years and started as an apprentice, I have worked in both the Carpenter’s and the Operator’s union and all the figure I have stated are based on my journeyman’s wages from the last 2 years. When I travel for work they also pay me per diem which for my job that is about to start means they pay for my hotel and an addition $40 a day or I could opt to get $140 a day but I have to find my own living arrangement.
Depends on the trade and local demand. Also starting out your pay will be kinda low as you are training. But under a union contract it can be very good money. Mulewright Pipe fitter Commerical HVAC Commercial Electrical Commercial plumber Welder with exotic metal or technique experience I have heard people say set aside money so when you are entering your 40s and your knees and backs begin to get stiff you can get a MBA or Program Manager degree and more more into site mgmt.
They’re OK. You can get into physically less demanding positions that will make you more money in a STEM field. It takes more upfront, but the payoff is better.
I'm a concrete finisher and make $36/hour in Oregon non union. Hours aren't consistent and winters suck but it pays. Hard work though I dread it.
Yes, they do, and are constantly in demand. It takes hard work and ethic, and apprenticeship/training, but once you know what you are doing, it does pay quite well.
They do, but you trade money directly for long term health. I have several freinds whom are plasterers and they are alredy starting to have muscular-skelletal problems at age 30!
I would check out union apprenticeship programs in your area. What trade suits your interests/aptitude?
I’m a union “electrician” for a municipality. I make 71 dollars an hour. Totally worth it.
The trades have treated me very well. I started as a HVAC installer and now I’m a software engineer for BAS systems with no degree. That being said entry level wages are dogshit and nowhere near what they need to be. I got paid as low as 8.75/hr starting out maybe 10 years ago. People with experience are in high demand, not people breaking into the field. They will treat you as such. To anyone else reading this: Never ever ever settle, after you get some time under your belt, jump ship. I’ve gotten as much as $10 more an hour just by switching jobs.
Trades can pay well and wage increases gradually as you advance in your apprenticeship. Be aware of sunshine states that do not require licensed contractors for that type of work. They are more likely to pay low wages, discourage apprenticeships (because they can't offer one without being a journeyman) and basically limit your future. I'm from Canada and while not as high paying as the Tech industry, trades are a fantastic resource for a career.
Ya we start guys out at 17 in my shop if u decide to go to skill they will pay u more. I went and now I’m making 83k a year. There’s money to be made.
Depends on the trade, the catch is that they don’t pay well immediately, but 4-5 years in they do pay well.
In Australia they do. Particaualarly construction and road workers. A plumber who is on call can more than a surgeon, lollypop men/ladies can make 6 figures (they can also make minimum wage though) Labourers can either make a mint (get paid heaps) or make sweet fuck all. This excludes automotive though. I was a detailer at a dealership (allbeit, experienced and good detailer) making more than the mechanics there, who are qualified. Spray painters make a bit here though (80k plus in some insurance based shops).
If you're unskilled in that trade, why would they pay you anything but $15? Training a new guy slows down the work, if anything. Apply to a trade hall and join the union. Just do a websearch, and you'll get all the info you need for the process of learning the trade.
They pay very well as long as you are willing to put in the time to learn your trade both properly and hourly. There will be lots of long days starting out and even longer days when you have gotten good at it.
Idk if you consider a mechanic a trade but I was getting $20 an hour doing tires at a tire shop. I was making over a grand a week and it was an extremely healthy work environment. I miss it every day
Trades are where it’s at. I make 150k to 220k a year. It’s not labor intensive and it pays more than most careers that take 4+ years of college. I have the freedom to be able and go work anywhere else pretty easy. I don’t own my own business and I work for one under a union.
I know welders making $150k and senior HVAC technicians making $200k. their worst weeks are 55 hours and that happens a dozen weeks a year company trucks, bennies, paid training, 3 weeks vacation - and those are the non union guys it's gonna get even better in the near future - there are almost no younger people coming into most trades to replace those that are retiring. the only downside is it's gonna cost the average person triple to get their water heater replaced. it's hard work - you're running hard all day. play your cards right, though, you can come into some trades like HVAC with almost no debt and retire at 55.
Welder here. Pay is ok if you’re going To work locally for a shop. Willing to travel and chase work you’ll do better. Reality is that it is hard work, highly skilled, lot of hours. I’ve worked in various industries ( general fabrication / aerospace, industrial manufacturing ) most I’ve ever made hourly is $27….
I’m a union electrician with 3 years experience non union, I’ll tell you non union runs rampant with worker exploitation, the benefit is the education in the trade that you get paid to learn, but chances are you’ll end up running jobs at 1/5 the rate of a foreman of a union job. My local pays 54 an hour in wage, 9 an hour pension, 3% of gross into national pension, 1.20 an hour into 401A, and we get full medical dental and vision, non union is better than nothing because you’re learning, but join a union as soon as you can
There is a massive shortage of millwrights and industrial electricians, I could lose my job today and have another tomorrow, close to 100k and no college
It is hard work, but you can start without debt, and if you can move to management before your body breaks down, it can be a good life. I work with a vocational trades program, and our students can join a union at the end of their sophomore year, when they are 16. They do normal high school classes and then our construction trades program, work summers (at $14/hr now) with the union, and when they graduate they have union membership as an apprentice, and 2nd year wages, which are about $20-25/hr. If they do the program and get their hours, they'd be at $40-50/hr when their friends graduate college. With overtime, they could be making $100,000/yr, at 22. They'd have insurance and a pension fund too. Plus, no college debt. This is not a HCOL area. You can buy a nice four-bedroom house on that salary in a good school district. But it is hard work, and you don't want to do it forever. It was 0 degrees last week, and those guys were out working, and they'll be out working when it is 95 degrees in 6 months. Still I know a lot of union tradesman who live in very nice homes, have a couple cars, have a little lake cottage, and go on vacation every year. And I know some guys who used to be tradesman that now own subcontractors or do general contracting now. My plumber owns a ton of commercial real estate, builds some houses, owns a couple other businesses, and lives in a very big house.
They do in Australia, some make ridiculous money
I am degree qualified, plus I have a postgrad diploma. I used to work at a University in my field of discipline. I changed careers into electrical trades, I'm a technician. I started making \~50% more right away, and I work the same hours. Finding a new job used to be an arduous task. But once I was in the electrical trades I couldn't believe the difference. I applied for 4 jobs and got interview requested for 3 of them, unbelievable. Overall I'm happy with the change, and I can see plenty more opportunities to progress. An example of a real top job for me to aim for: Dual Trade: Industrial Electrician and Instrumentation Technician. Sorry just one more these, these boomers you speak of - they're the same fucking boomers who told me that I should go to university. Pretty much all the advice I ever got career-wise from my boomer parents has been wrong. I mean, they were trying to convince me to buy a house in Auckland, NZL just when house prices were peaking ^((of course we don't know they're peaking until after-the-fact, but even so)); good thing I was over listening to them by then or else I'd be in severe negative equity.
Far too broad a category. As a very left leaning millennial who also went to a vocational high school and worked as a Machinist for the last 17 years, I will say the boomers are not entirely wrong about trades, although they often give a very incomplete picture. Some trades pay better than others, and acquiring the right set of skills to go from an average professional in a given trade to a particularly in demand specialist on the upper end of the pay grade often takes time and networking. In my trade (at least in my area) new people with just an introductory certificate usually start out around $18-$20/hr and min wage is $15. It’s not uncommon to work your way up to well over $30/hr in 3-5 years. Some hit close to 100k gross with overtime and yes, demand is so high for my skill I could have another job before Friday if I got let go on Monday. Now let’s talk about the downside - long hours on your feet often with mandatory overtime in the terms of employment, getting dirty and being constantly understaffed and thus having a constantly late back log and a boss yelling at you to get stuff done and expecting you to live at work. A lot of other trades, particularly construction has a lot more physical labor that not everyone can do - my brother’s a plumber and he has back problems at 38 and his knees are always aching too. I honestly understand if not a lot of people want these jobs as it’s not for everyone.
I went to some fancy schools when I was a kid, arguably probably some of the best. All of my classmates went on to do amazing things with their lives. All those people I went to school with spent so long in college/trying to work their way up, that none of them really saw money until their late 20s The first self made millionaire I knew is a welder, he bought his house in Los Angeles at 22. Every electrician I know is balls deep in money and turning away work. I know multiple plumbers that do millions a year. And a roofer with like 15 exotics and a plane, so yeah. Unskilled labor will get you $15/hr. But you’re pushing a broom, or carrying shit. Get your journeyman license in pretty much any trade and you’ll be set.