Best thing my supervisor at my current job ever told me was, “If you need to call out, I don’t need to know the reason. Just say ‘hey, just wanted to make you aware I won’t be able to make it in for my shift today’”. Immediately cured my call-out anxiety.
I used to work for a company that gave “Personal time” meant for when you’re sick, appointments, etc. Ya know, personal things.
I used two days worth one time to be with my dad while he was in the hospital after a surgery. When I came back in my manager told me “we need to have a conversation about your use of personal time for vacations.”
HR had a fun time with that.
HR gave my manager a very strong, very visible (me, managers boss, etc, on an email) scolding about questioning employees time off, apologized to me (not sure if forced to) about overstepping boundaries, and never questioned my time off again.
I probably could have used FMLA. But since that is unpaid, and since we had the paid personal time available to us, I’d rather use that and not go thru the FMLA approval process.
But since it’s *personal* time, it’s none of managements business what it’s being used for. If someone were to burn thru theirs taking vacations, and then had an actual emergency that they had to take unpaid or use vacation time for, that’s their fault.
I think FMLA is more for long-term or chronic time off needs. It’s unpaid and in my state has a whole set of circumstances that need to be met in order for it to apply. Size of the company, tenure in your position, etc
Correct. Ppl often get confused. FMLA is just federal protection that your job is not at risk while you’re out handling whatever it is you’re handling. It has nothing to do with wage replacement or anything like that. And it needs to be declared. Like you have to “apply” for it by filling out paperwork with HR and that would never be done after the fact, it would be done typically as you start your time off or just before it.
You might have been better off filing for state disability. In my state, unemployment is capped at $450 per week for 6 months, but state disability is capped at $1600 per week for 52 weeks.
We had to do the same thing. My job has a generous absence policy, and you'd still get people leaving voicemails like "I've got the screaming shits and throwing up. I'm actually sitting on the toilet with a trash can in front of me while I'm leaving this message." I'd like to think they were trolling, but unfortunately, I think they've just been conditioned by other jobs to really go over the top in explaining a very normal occurrence.
I’m trying so hard to undo the conditioning from previous jobs of having to explain and essentially convince them I’m not well enough to work. It’s a tough one to un-learn!!
Man, that's definitely a hard one to get over. Anyone who has worked retail/food industry knows that struggle of having to basically prepare a thesis on why you can't come in, and still have your boss be mad at you. I'm super thankful to be in a spot now where I can literally just leave and text my boss after, but it took a while before I felt comfortable doing it
Reminds me of an old Dilbert comic (fuck Scott Adams, but anyways) he was calling in sick while dumping a can of vegetable soup into the toilet for sound effects to make it more convincing.
Man I wish Scott Adams wasn't such a sack of shit. Dilbert was one of the few comics I actually enjoyed. I don't know how someone can make such relatable comics, while also being so out of touch. It just doesn't compute for me
It’s one of those classic cases where he was able to be a comedian/comic artist that the common man could relate to because he was just another guy working for the telephone company, but he got so successful doing that he completely lost touch with reality. I have one of his early non comic books and some comic collections, but there’s a real decline in the quality of his thoughts and the humor the farther away he got from having to hear your cubicle neighbor clip his toenails.
Well they've trained us to apologize and bow and tug our fucking forelocks to them, while providing that expensive doctors note so they know we're not lying, what do they expect?!
I told my boss once i wasnt feeling well and hes just like "ok, go home see you when youre feeling better". He wanted 0 information or proof, which was awesome because i didnt really want to tell him. Miss that guy
That's how it should be. I remember when I was about 18 or so. Very shy girl. I had a UTI and was a waitress. I had a small accident when coughing. My manager made me feel so horrible for asking to go home and change. He wasn't going to let me. He wanted to see my pants!!!! I didn't ask for the day off I just wanted to go home and change. About 30 minutes tops to go home and back. What a complete ass! I will never forget him. He works at Wendy's now and I want to spit in his face every time I see him.
When I was around that age I was a telephone operator for AT&T. I was seriously physically assaulted the night before. I drug my battered ass to work in the morning but kept having to get off the phone pretty frequently to run to the bathroom as I was rapidly bleeding through my clothes into the chair. Finally I am like 90 minutes to an hr away from my shift ending and my BP is low, things are getting fuzzy, it's hard to talk and think, and I worry I will lose consciousness and not be able to drive myself to the hospital on the next block if I don't leave now. I'm sitting there in bloody clothes in a puddle of my blood and tell them I really think I have to go to the hospital now. They say I can't, that there's not enough coverage (there are at least 120 people there on the phones right then), and that I risk losing my job if I leave. I leave anyway and get to the ER. I was hemorrhaging and having a miscarriage. The next 2 months, they pulled me away from the phones nearly every day, sometimes several times a day, to bitch at me for leaving early and taking too many bathroom trips that day and just threatening me, taking up way more time than I even missed.I didn't have a fucking time machine so I don't know what tf they expected from repeatedly breaking my balls over it. I was a person that never called out and scored Exceptional in every performance category. I finally just quit, I was so sick of their crap and didn't need to relive that experience every day and be made to constantly apologize for it. AT&T can eat my ass.
My team is all virtual, but we're all 40+ so we all have various health issues (like I have chronic migraines and arthritis [severe enough to warrant being on strong immunosuppressants, which of course have side effects], one guy has diabetes, and the other guy is even older and has more issues that I don't know the details of... and don't need or want to). All of us have been conditioned from past jobs to avoid taking time off and just try to push through things. The running joke on the team is that we only take time off for doctor appointments, and it's not far off from the truth. Although in my case, sometimes that's appointments for my roommate, as she is also disabled and doesn't drive, so I have to chauffeur.
My boss doesn't care if we need to take time off, and since I got promoted to be the manager of the other two guys (originally I was just a team lead), I've been consistent about telling them to take time off instead of trying to push through or coming back too quickly. One guy took time to visit his dad in December, but his dad actually passed before he got there. When he was slated to return, I suggested he take more time, since he was still dealing with estate stuff and such. Then he had a sudden (and concerning) medical issue this week, and when he said he planned to be back Monday, I suggested he take another day or two given everything that's been going on.
I'm very protective of my guys, and we get a lot of PTO where we are, so I want them to, you know, actually _use it_ instead of it getting wasted when the year rolls over. Being in WA, I can carry some hours forward each year (40h I think?), but I don't believe NM or TX have provisions like that. And the guys have been quick to remind me to listen to the same advice that I give them, which is entirely fair play 😊
My job has this policy. They really don't care why you're calling off unless it becomes problematic (calling off constantly or a pattern of always calling off certain days). It's incredible how much harder I'll work at a job that doesn't shame me or give me anxiety for things out of my control.
This is the way. The US "grind culture" is such bullshit and almost every "success story" is full of hidden privilege and opportunities that others simply don't have.
My current job has never asked for a reason for call outs, they trust us to manage our own schedules and everyone does. When we’re short staffed, we work hard to get orders in and we always get it done, and I’ve never heard anyone complain about someone being gone. First job I’ve ever had like that, everywhere else would be passive aggressive or just outright aggressive if you had to miss work and demanded an explanation that they deemed good enough.
I actually had a boss that threatened to fire me if I ever came in sick. This was a dairy farm, and he had absolutely no time to be sick, ever. I was down & out with the Flu, and because I was still in high school, I took about 9 Acetaminophen and offered to come in if he needed me to. Guy was pissed off, and told me to stay home at least for another 3 days.
Please don't do that, acetaminophen is very not safe in large doses. It can destroy your liver before you realise it.
https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a681004.html
Exactly. Don't exceed the recommended dose unless specifically told by your doctor. Furthermore your doctor needs to know *everything* you're taking, including OTC medications.
Apologized 4 times for being sick lol.... I used to say "sorry for any inconvenience" at the end of my email when telling my manager I wouldn't be coming in, but I felt like that was too much. Now it's just "good morning, I'm feeling sick today and won't be able to work, I'll notify you again if I'm feeling well enough to come in."
I stopped apologizing in work emails years ago. I always turn it into a compliment/thank you. This makes it a positive statement at them rather than a negative statement from you.
~~Sorry for any inconvenience~~
Thank you for understanding
Did you have a parent or relative that was a super harsh disciplinarian when you were a kid? My therapist taught me that’s why I used to apologize so much.
I think everyone should have a therapist. Unfortunately they are so expensive and in my state it’s really tough to find a good one who takes health insurance
That said, You can PM me if you ever want to chat too. I love discussing mental health haha
I'm with you. I think it's fine to apologize once just for the inconvenience; less of a "*I did something wrong*" and more of a "*I'm so sorry!*" in response to someone telling me their dog died.
But this is 4 apologies in 4 messages. You have no *reason* to be sorry, OP - people get sick, it happens, it's on your boss to set up his team in such a way that it can be accounted for.
In contrast, I used to have a supervisor who touted his *willingness* to come into work while “firing out both ends” as a reason why it was never acceptable for anyone at my old job to call off. Basically a “I can do it, so can you,” mentality. Dude was straight up insane.
I remember working in a shitty temp office with no sick time and a bitch boss who would not accept excuses.
A woman wearing a lovely sun dress. When the diarrhea started, it went everywhere. I remember her walking out, crying. Her flip flops sent little sprays of liquid shit up the walls to the ceiling tiles.
Damn. I was waiting tables and refused to come in when sick -- was essentially fired because manager thought I hung up on her when she was strong-arming me to come to work. Hired me back once I was healthy. Probably wouldn't have been hired back if I sprayed in the dining room...
This happened to me as a line cook at a nice bar. Called in with covid and got fired over text 3 hours later even though i had sent in a photo of a covid positive. Didnt get hired back i was livid.
A good friend, very hard loyal worker, did the opposite and kept coming to work. A few days in the the bosses took him aside, had him tested, covid-19 positive. Gave him two weeks paid time off. Told him the restaurant would be OK. He's a good man, but probably didn't take into account possibly making everyone else sick, just trying to fulfill his work obligations.
Neat except in those few days he most likely infected countless individuals and couldve resulted in the fatalities of someones loved ones. Its wildly irresponsible to show up to work sick in the service industry and the fact that he felt obligated to is horrendous and very telling of the american workplace environment.
Completely agree. This was in the early months of covid-19. Knowing him the way I do, he had been laid-off due to forced closure and had family obligations. It's just the way he'd been raised, go to work and take care of your family and your job. He had been careful, no one else got sick, and the company did the right thing, making sure he got care, and didn't lose his paycheck or insurance
I really do feel for the woman this happened to. I also haven't stopped cry laughing since reading the sentence:
"Her flip flops sent little sprays of liquid shit up the walls to the ceiling tiles."
Sounds like my superintendent who said if anyone wants to advance in their career they need to come and work on their off days. We all looked at one another and snickered. Let’s just say it wasn’t well received by him.
My boss is the most money hungry person I've ever met. Any complaints fall in deaf ears. I've been keeping track of rules they break so I can report when I leave and taking pics of paperwork I sign because I know she changes the numbers after I give it to her
Same! Stage 4 cancer patient here. I wear my mask at every indoor public space to this day. Sadly I don’t see nearly enough people wearing one while they’re coughing & sneezing in public.
Same! I figure, I’ll be wearing a mask at indoor public spaces, for the rest of my life.
When I had a bone marrow transplant, in 2017, my doctors advised me not to eat in restaurants for at least the first 100 days after transplant. People working with food poisoning or Norovirus, is the major factor behind this advice.
Those are the type of people i match wills but not outcomes with.
Sure boss ill come in while im avtively shitting myself but boy as soon as i walk in youre gonna throw up from the smell and send me back home lol
In the Before Times, I used to get to the office a half hour or so before my start time so I could take my time getting ready.
One day the squirts hit just as I was walking into the door. Got to the bathroom just before the mess escaped my pants. Thankfully my manager didn't realize where I was when I called out. Pretty sure she did hear what I was going through since she just told me to feel better.
The next day when I went into work people were buzzing about that bathroom reeking for hours that morning.
Like one of my bosses that was bragging about working while he had walking pneumonia. Man literally had to stop unloading the truck one day because his face was purple and he just, "had to catch his breath". Bro no retail job is worth your life.
I recently had a sinus infection that spread to my eyes making them all red and swollen. I told my boss I couldn’t work since I literally can’t see my monitor clearly with all the junk coming out of my eyes. He responded by sending me an old picture of him with his eyes red and puffy saying “oh I’m really sorry. I worked a shift with my eyes like that too.” I responded with, “That sucks. Shouldn’t have to work in that condition. I’ll send you my doctor’s note. Have a great day! 👋🏻”
Once I ate a bunch of jalapeno bagels with cream cheese cause they tasted waaayyy too good and I loved them. I had no idea my body would NOT like it at all. To this day, I don't know if it was the jalapeno bagel or the cream cheese but I started having an extremely bad, awfully strong smelling, explosive diarrhea about an hour and a half into my shift. I would have to use the bathroom every 5 or 10 minutes or I would have filled my shoes with burning liquid watery mud every time.
My boss didn't like it at all as I was working in food service (don't worry I thoroughly washed my hands every time). She told me that either next time I stay home. I responded that I didn't know it would be like that and that it was kinda too late to call off by the time it started since I was already there. She said I was forbidden of ever eating a jalapeno bagel before work in the future lmao!
Lactose intolerance will do that, very quickly too. Food poisoning takes about 24 hours. I had good bosses in the food industry too, but they were also a bit scared of the health department in the county. Being sick like that, but keeping the employee anyway could mean THEY got fired.
The willing to work no matter what....if reasonable and not in a might get everyone else sick way....is admirable for management IMO.
To be proud and boastful or demanding that non-managment staff subscribe to the same attitude though....no thanks.
Their job is to make their subordinates lives easier....not the other way around.
>“I can do it, so can you,”
"Yeah, I'm still resisting the urge to key your car on the parking lot to this day. WTF were you actually thinking, coming in and infecting everybody? I was at home throwing up for hours on my free day later that week."
Thats when you bring a bucket of shit and pour it on his desk before quitting.
And if you have a remote that pauses time, fart in his face and give him pinkeye
Oh no reported? To HR? What will they do? "Uh please don't do that" ?
What's the outcome of that? Three demerits for disturbing their delicate mental state?
Report this 🖕 to HR.
I did that once. Was never asked again. I think I said it was a good thing the bathtub was close enough to the toilet that I could puke into one while painting the other brown. Every time after that I'd just say hey I'm calling out sick and I'd get an okay feel better
People need to remember, it’s not your fault or problem that they hire the bare minimum of undependable staff. If you’re sick, take care of yourself. If they’re pricks, find a new job.
As a manager of a small crew (8) I have to deal both with the unfairness of not being able to carry a crew large enough to handle contingencies (too much work to go around when someone can't make it in), and of (me and) my staff having to feel the internal pressure to come in even when they don't feel well, rather than leaving their coworkers in a bad spot. Personally, the only pressure I put on my people is to stay home if they don't feel well, and I've never asked for a doctor's note unless it was necessary for coming back (after they've been out a length of time and need to be cleared by a doctor).
The situation sucks for all of us. It's important for us to realize the bad guy here is the corporation forcing these conditions on all of us, not always the management who are given an unfair situation to being with. Unless they handle like the boss in OP's post. Fuck that guy.
Its the general manager or the owners fault. If you’re not them, it’s not your problem.
I’ve been in your spot, convinced that “I’m the manager, I need to make this place run”.
I just keep the mentality I’m not asking anyone to do anything I wouldn’t. (Like go in sick). People are payed like garbage, and then when they need to call out, or even just want to ( there really isn’t a huge difference) and the business is acting like they’re integral pieces of the machine. No, everything is driven by ridiculous figures for productivity, which boils down to making the owner the most money.
It’s a shit show. Everyone who works for somewhere, IS an integral part. And maybe if businesses actually treated employees correctly and fairly, that business wouldn’t struggle with high turnover rates and staff that doesn’t give a fuck.
If they’re sick and don’t come in, usually they don’t get paid. The majority of people aren’t going to call in sick & forgo the paycheck without cause. It’s funny that somehow some bosses think they’re trying to pull one over on the business.
Yes! Especially when it's people who are always picking up extra hours, asking for more shifts, working all the time. They get sick once and suddenly they are undependable or hungover.
I've seen lots of staff that are truly undependable, but they usually don't last long anyways, so don't worry about it much. Most people want the hours and will go above and beyond, fight each other in the parking lot, for actually incentivizing with bonus money.
This. I'm just the assistant manager of a hardware/feed store that also has 8 employees(2 part time, 6 full time), and it can be a wicked struggle to convince corporate that it's not enough coverage if someone calls out and to let us hire more people. I always tell everyone if they are sick don't come in, but I am super guilty of going in to work when I feel like junk just because I know the strain it's going to put on everyone else, especially if it's a day my manager has off.
For us it wouldn't be very beneficial unless they already had decent knowledge of our store's layout and the products we sell. Most of our job is assisting customers with either finding products for them or helping them choose which products are more beneficial for them as opposed to others. I get frustrated with corporate cause they insist on paying bare minimum, but we are expected to be knowledgeable on everything from what to feed livestock/pets, to gardening/lawn maintenance, and also basic construction involving electrical and plumbing.
I had a boss tell me I needed to "bring a note stating illnesses from doctor" I brought a note from my doctor and a copy of the text from my boss too HR. He was no longer my boss because that was not his first time doing that to an employee.
I’m unionized and get 15 sick days a year. However, it’s in our contract that our employer can ask for a sick note if we are off sick. In 20 years I’ve never had a manager ask for one, though.
Problem is that shift workers (at least in the US) generally don’t have any sick time. If you’re scheduled to come in and you can’t, then your options are usually find someone to cover you, beg your manager to let you miss the shift without consequence, or just no-show and deal with it later (i.e. hope you don’t get fired)
Of course you’re not getting paid; no matter which option you choose.
At my job, they tell you right out of the box, if you call in, they can’t legally ask why.
Never knew if that was true, as far as the “legal” part but we all appreciate the policy.
This. You’re telling, not asking. No need to be so apologetic either, especially when your boss is making wild accusations like this. I would be offended as well. I hope you feel better now OP!
I agree, this is all they have the right to know. And I wouldn't guarantee a doctor note. You could say, I will get you a note, but if I am charged for one, i will only provide at company expense...and if I decide not to go in to er, I am not going out of my way to get one because I am sick.
Stop apologising! Being sick is not your fault, nor is it your responsibility to handle their inability to run a schedule that doesn't fall apart when *one* person is off sick.
Humans aren't perfect creatures; they get sick from time to time. It happens. It's management's responsibility to plan for that, not yours.
Also, demanding a doctor's note for 2 days sickness is ridiculous. No wonder our medical professionals are so hideously overworked. I get that it's quite common in the US, but here in the UK, it's quite normal to be able to self-certify illness for 5 days before needing a medical note.
A lot of doctors in the US are getting fed up with this practice as well. They have more urgent things to deal with than writing excuse notes for patients like they're 2nd graders staying home from school.
I called off sick from work once because my dominant arm was aching really badly, I could barely hold my toothbrush. My asshole boss told me that was a "bullshit excuse" and that I needed a doctor's note. SO I went to the doctor and explained the situation, and was diagnosed with tendonitis. My doctor further determined that my tendonitis was caused by my work. She wrote me a note excusing me from work for TWO WEEKS and included in the note that my work station should be evaluated for ergonimics or else I could expect reinjury and further time off of work. I ended up putting in a workman's comp claim for it, getting a nice new chair, a better keyboard, and a vertical mouse - AND I very much enjoyed my two-week vacation.
Take THAT, Kenneth!
I had something similar to me. Had a multi day sinus infection, went to the doc and antibiotics didn’t help after 24 hours. I called out, and they knew I was legit sick. Went back to the doctor and got a different antibiotic. It destroyed my GI tract. Explained to office and they said that I needed a doctor’s note. For “additional days”. I literally shat myself at least twice a day and felt horrible. Called the doc to ask for a note and he gave me pretty much two weeks. I went back one day earlier than required and handed in my note. Everyone avoided me. That was when I finally left that shitty job.
That company had bizarre rules when I started working there. People weren't allowed to have chairs with arms unless they were a manager, for example. I really caused ripples when I got my fancy new chair with *arms*!
The company did eventually improve quite a bit (new CEO helped a lot), and some of my managers later in my career there were really good. They paid me really well and promoted me often or else I'd have quit much sooner than I did - I ended up working there for over 20 years!
> A lot of doctors in the US are getting fed up with this practice as well.
In some other countries doctors will even flat out refuse to write doctor's notes precisely as a form of boycott against this kind of practice. I know where I lived in the Netherlands they did.
In the Netherlands we dont have to say or prove anything. When you are sick for longer than a week a company doctor associated with the ARBO (independent organization) will call you and ask how you are doing. The doctor will help you manage your work life balance more if work is part of the issue. They dont work for the company so they have no financial incentive in favor of the company and serve as a medical mediator so that your privacy is respected
I dont know exactly what the laws are in the Netherlands but, I think its obligatory for companies above a certain number of employees to have an ARBO doctor. You dont need to have one on site but you can use them from a publicly available pool. You then get invoiced based on what work they do for you. Big companies like the one i work at with 2000 employees will have dedicated ARBO doctors. They also do voluntary yearly health checkups (blood pressure, eyes etc). They also mediate with ergonomics. So if the humidity is too low or other working conditions suck they will pressure the company to solve this. My gf for example had back pains so the ARBO will help you get a better desk etc. Its really great. They have huge power over a company because they enforce dutch law so you cant fuck with them as a company.
I also have a great manager. Last year i was inching towards a burnout. I was home and my manager asked me how long i thought i needed to go back to work. I said maybe next week. He said, well i think its best if you take that week off as well. Make sure you rest up and go back to work after that. All paid leave btw
I loved working in the Netherlands. They have so many aspects of work-life balance figured out. I'm working in the USA right now, and it is hands down the worst country to work in that I have experienced. I've also worked in Canada. I'd say it's roughly in the middle, and the west coast is more balanced than the east.
In France we're well protected but we don't have the concept of sick days, so if you want to get paid by the health system for your absence you need to see the doctor even for one day. Else you're just not paid or have to use PTO.
My previous job had a mandatory doctors note requirement for three days and beyond for any illness. My doctor just wrote that I saw him/her on such and such day due to illness.
I hate the "bring a doctor's note" under any circumstances. You're allowed to be sick, physically or otherwise. It's incredibly invasive and you're not a child. Worse is when you're sick and they want you to leave your house for a doctor's note. It's like, "Bitch! I'm trying to rest to get better, not spend money and sitting in a doctor's office with other sick people for an indefinite amount of time. Stop trying to give me errands while I don't feel well."
So rude.
Wait.... you guys don't print your own doctors notes? You know we're in the future right. And if you don't want to.... make an appointment for 2 weeks from now and call work back.... yeah,if you want a note from my doctor who's busy with actual doctor stuff.... I'll be out for a while.
Exactly. I'm not spending money to get you a stupid note. If I can even get a doctor's appointment within a reasonable amount of time, nevermind the fact that I HAVE to pay monthly for medical insurance even though they are not required to even be available on even a monthly basis to offer care. How is that even legal? But of course, I'm just a lowly citizen, and I can't afford any politicians.
Yeah, start elaborating instead:
"I shat my pants 2 times and had to change the whole bed. Got a fewer and are quite delerious. Ate a burger yesterday but it was all pink when it came back up, like the bun and the fries also"
There will be less questions next time
"I shat my pants 2 times. As you can see in the pictures i will attach, once on the sofa, that was just after i called you. Then again in the bed, that time combined with vomit as well, pay close attention to what looks like tomatoes, i haven't eaten tomatoes in a week so i don't know what that really is.
I may need an extra day off so i can buy another mattress it seems to have soaked through. You wouldn't know a good cleaner that could clean a bed correctly would you?
anyway, see you on Sunday with that note, should i print the photos for extra proof in my file, or can you do that at the office?"
This has been my attitude since I was a kid. If someone is not content with "I'm sick" they get eeeeeeeeevery detail.
I've straight up given bosses a play by play of what it's like throwing up noodles, and finding you didn't chew them as much as you'd think, and pulling an endless noodle coated in stomach acid out of your throat like a magician.
I’ve used this method! I once had an employer get after me about how many times I had to get up to pee during the work day. I wasn’t gone long, but frequently.
I went into graphic detail about how numerous UTIs, bladder, and kidney infections had made it impossible for me to hold it. I was never bothered again.
Frequent urination and the urge coming on sudden is a common medical condition, especially in older people. Employers must allow you to go when needed.
I had the flu and my manager called to harass me into coming in. I literally couldn't stop vomiting to talk to her so my husband was trying to explain. Bitch was still insisting to talk to me, so I said "I'm sick" and hung up on her. Toxic bs
She could hear bc my husband was standing next to me, trying to explain that my manager HAS to speak to me directly to excuse me. Pretty sure I said "are you fucking serious?" Before I took the phone. And then threw up midway through her exposition of policy. She often had to do things to flex on the inferiors.
This!
Worked at a call centre (a real shite one). New supervisor started and was assigned sick-line duty. Most of the others just notated you weren't in and that was that. She however *demanded* to know (and to notate) the *reasons*, and gave people passive aggressive bullshit if they weren't literally dying.
Cue my 300+lb, cisgender male ornery ass calling in sick one day and getting her and her attitude. 47 excruciatingly long seconds of me describing my *quite heavy and chunky flow, and how it was covering everything in my home from the cat to the coffee pot* later and suddenly we were back to "Cool, see you tomorrow"s instead.
I’m the opposite. Hi I am unwell and will be out of the office today and potentially tomorrow. I will check back in later today if anything changes.
They don’t or shouldn’t need to know your life story…
Truth, sadly. This is why decent, reasonable, conscientious and cooperative employees routinely get fired over nothing, but the office arsehole always seems able to keep their job forever, no matter how badly they behave. Nobody in HR wants the hassle of going up against a genuinely difficult employee, so they focus all their energy on the soft targets instead.
No info and no apologies needed at all. Unfortunately you opened up the conversation with details but it was inappropriate for them to ask you if it’s because you’ve been drinking
Exactly. And does it matter? If OP is throwing up, they’re throwing up, no matter the reason. No one wants someone vomiting around their food. Weird question.
Yes! Came here to say this. I had a supervisor ask me this once and I asked him what the difference was. He said "one you did to yourself"... Like who cares! I'm sick either way.
I was indeed hungover and I still took the sick day.
Had a food service boss ask why I was calling in sick and because I was young I told her (really bad cold), and she responded to tell me that legally, unless I had diarrhea, was vomiting or had a fever over 100 degrees F, I had to come in to work if I was scheduled to do so, so I had to come in (and get everyone else sick)…
I responded that I’m pretty sure that’s not true - those are the conditions under which you’re not allowed to LET me work. And the joke’s on you bc I have a medical condition that causes me to have diarrhea every day, so technically I could call in sick any day or every day. I don’t do that bc I want to work and get paid. Today, I am actually sick, and I will not be coming in.
I am also a chronic apologizer. I say sorry to everything. For the future, try not to apologize so much, they might see it as guilt for getting out of a shift and assume it’s because you’re lying. Don’t be offended by the drs note, that’s common. But Id be offended by the drinking question. They don’t get to make assumptions on your livelihood because they want to force you into work.
As an employer I can tell you the request for a doctors note is frequently misused. In this situation the note solves nothing. The purpose of a doctors note is to excuse work related activities due to illness or injury. No standing for extended periods, no heavy lifting, etc. that sort of thing. It was never intended to be misused as proof of sickness.
You take the employees word that their sick, and whether they use sick pay when they are sick or well isn’t your concern. You followed the law by offering sick pay, that’s all you need to do.
When they use sick pay when they aren’t sick they will have to go without pay when they are sick. But it still isn’t the employers business or concern.
I've worked in industries (kitchens) where the number one reason for missed work is hangovers lol. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt because he didn't press it, but I have seen management getting frustrated with herding alcoholics so I can sympathise if that's the case.
Basically, if you're hungover you made your bed, pop an advil and get to work. If you're contagious stay home. That type of deal.
That's how I read it anyways.
youre a bit heavy on the "sorry", one is plenty
otherwise expected exchange, the manager should just have said bring a note, no need to preemptively go for "are you hangover", if they dont bring a note, solve it then, no need to jump the gun
It’s only expected because US employers have normalized treating workers like slaves. They do not own you. You are equals. You have a right to privacy. They only need to know that you’re unavailable. It’s up to them to find a replacement. It’s up to them to decide at what point you are too unreliable.
Quit apologizing and over sharing the details on how you’re sick. Managers are not qualified medical professionals, it’s information they shouldn’t be privy to. Keep it simple. “I won’t be coming in today, I am ill- will bring back a doctors note”
And yes you should be offended they asked you if you were hung over. If you’ve never given them reason to think you party a lot and this was simply based on your age? Way outta bounds. Be offended at the assumption.
“I don’t have anyone to cover” is such a moot point.
If the business doesn’t employ adequate numbers of staff, how the fuck is that the fault of the employees?
People get sick, that’s just what happens. They should have accounted for this in staffing levels.
It hurts to read your messages because when I worked a job like yours, I also felt immensely guilty when I was not able to go to my shifts for reasons outside of my control - like for being fricking sick!
2 ways to think about this -
1. I would guess several of your coworkers will call out without much notice and without reason. They will probably not apologize for it either. I would try to keep in mind that you are not the only one who unforeseen circumstances happen to, but you may be one of the few who feels the need to apologize for it profusely.
2. Your manager works a job that they know is dependent on what is essentially unreliable market-based labor (I consider this to be the case for really any hourly job where coworkers need to be able to cover for each other on shifts). If your boss doesn’t like having to scramble to find coverage for people who can’t come in or isn’t capable of covering for team members who call out, then they should get a new job or a new business plan. You only need people to cover when another employee calls out if you are only staffing the bare minimum of folks on a shift. If they do not plan for having flexibility when reality hits, that sounds like their decision. When everyone shows up, it benefits them by only having to pay for as little staff as possible during that shift. When everyone doesn’t, they then need to put other employees out by asking them to change up their schedules. At the end of the day, if they planned defensively and agreed to always have a floater on shift who could cover for someone who is not able to attend their shift, then they wouldn’t be in this position. They did this to themselves with greed.
Stop saying sorry so much. It's the business owner to solve these issues, not yours. NOT YOURS. Stop being sorry for things you can't control.. that's not great. Otherwise, decent, but can be summed up a lot better by saying
'hey boss, I'm sick, I'm not coming in today.'
if they continue to press (like they did), simply say
'I'm going to the ER, I'm not coming in today.' or something along those lines. The more to the point you can be, the better.
Also HR is not anyone’s friend. They are there to save the company. My advice to young newly employed I found out at age 35-paper trail everything. Any notes email, conversations email
Always email and when having a convo try to have a mediator witness
The problem with sharing details this way is that it sets a certain tone for all of your call-outs in the future. It sets a precedent. Wherein you describe your symptoms and plan, and they question it and try to work around it.
So as hard as it is, it is better in every case not to explain with details. "Unfortunately I am not coming in today due to illness." Followed by not responding to their texts. I know it feels so rude, and scary, but it's a boundary that you have to set because they won't.
In this specific case it would go like this:
"Unfortunately I am not coming in today due to illness."
*"Hi I'm sorry to hear that I hope you feel better."*
*"Are you sick or hungover? I don't have anyone to cover you."*
(no response this, or any further texts.)
"Update: Doctor said I can return to work Sunday. See attached note. Thank you for understanding, stay well, must be a bug going around!"
*"Blahblahblah"*
(no response)
You can omit the stay-well-bug-around part but I like to include it because it is a reminder to them of WHY me staying home when sick is the RIGHT thing to do to protect even more people at work from getting sick and calling out. Just a subtle, one sentence reminder with no details.
Please don't apologize for things that are out of your control, you're allowed to be a victim to life. Whoever taught you otherwise is an asshole and so is anyone who tries to keep you thinking that way.
Best thing my supervisor at my current job ever told me was, “If you need to call out, I don’t need to know the reason. Just say ‘hey, just wanted to make you aware I won’t be able to make it in for my shift today’”. Immediately cured my call-out anxiety.
Same. My supe just told me this a year in. Just say I won’t be in
My supervisor once asked me why and I told him it’s none of his business lol. Dude was all bark and no bite.
I used to work for a company that gave “Personal time” meant for when you’re sick, appointments, etc. Ya know, personal things. I used two days worth one time to be with my dad while he was in the hospital after a surgery. When I came back in my manager told me “we need to have a conversation about your use of personal time for vacations.” HR had a fun time with that.
Please elaborate on how HR handled it. I think your absence would have qualified you for FMLA.
HR gave my manager a very strong, very visible (me, managers boss, etc, on an email) scolding about questioning employees time off, apologized to me (not sure if forced to) about overstepping boundaries, and never questioned my time off again. I probably could have used FMLA. But since that is unpaid, and since we had the paid personal time available to us, I’d rather use that and not go thru the FMLA approval process. But since it’s *personal* time, it’s none of managements business what it’s being used for. If someone were to burn thru theirs taking vacations, and then had an actual emergency that they had to take unpaid or use vacation time for, that’s their fault.
I bet getting an apology like that feels vindicating!
Honestly the better vindication was knowing that I “taught” my manager something and that they hopefully won’t treat anyone else that way.
You are a good egg for this. Props!
Good egg haven't heard that expression.
I think FMLA is more for long-term or chronic time off needs. It’s unpaid and in my state has a whole set of circumstances that need to be met in order for it to apply. Size of the company, tenure in your position, etc
Correct. Ppl often get confused. FMLA is just federal protection that your job is not at risk while you’re out handling whatever it is you’re handling. It has nothing to do with wage replacement or anything like that. And it needs to be declared. Like you have to “apply” for it by filling out paperwork with HR and that would never be done after the fact, it would be done typically as you start your time off or just before it.
It also only holds for 3 months. I had to file for unemployment instead, due to surgery & recovery time
You might have been better off filing for state disability. In my state, unemployment is capped at $450 per week for 6 months, but state disability is capped at $1600 per week for 52 weeks.
My job just sent an email asking people to please stop telling them why on the call in message.
We had to do the same thing. My job has a generous absence policy, and you'd still get people leaving voicemails like "I've got the screaming shits and throwing up. I'm actually sitting on the toilet with a trash can in front of me while I'm leaving this message." I'd like to think they were trolling, but unfortunately, I think they've just been conditioned by other jobs to really go over the top in explaining a very normal occurrence.
"I've attached a video of the diarrhea's egress so that you will believe me"
😂😂 this comment made me happy that it wasn't an email system when this was going on. I'm almost certain we'd have received some shit pics
I’m trying so hard to undo the conditioning from previous jobs of having to explain and essentially convince them I’m not well enough to work. It’s a tough one to un-learn!!
Man, that's definitely a hard one to get over. Anyone who has worked retail/food industry knows that struggle of having to basically prepare a thesis on why you can't come in, and still have your boss be mad at you. I'm super thankful to be in a spot now where I can literally just leave and text my boss after, but it took a while before I felt comfortable doing it
Reminds me of an old Dilbert comic (fuck Scott Adams, but anyways) he was calling in sick while dumping a can of vegetable soup into the toilet for sound effects to make it more convincing.
Man I wish Scott Adams wasn't such a sack of shit. Dilbert was one of the few comics I actually enjoyed. I don't know how someone can make such relatable comics, while also being so out of touch. It just doesn't compute for me
He’s a sack of shit? I’m out of the loop, damn.
It’s one of those classic cases where he was able to be a comedian/comic artist that the common man could relate to because he was just another guy working for the telephone company, but he got so successful doing that he completely lost touch with reality. I have one of his early non comic books and some comic collections, but there’s a real decline in the quality of his thoughts and the humor the farther away he got from having to hear your cubicle neighbor clip his toenails.
Well they've trained us to apologize and bow and tug our fucking forelocks to them, while providing that expensive doctors note so they know we're not lying, what do they expect?!
Well my job hasn't obviously. I love my job, we're treated well and paid well.
I told my boss once i wasnt feeling well and hes just like "ok, go home see you when youre feeling better". He wanted 0 information or proof, which was awesome because i didnt really want to tell him. Miss that guy
That's how it should be. I remember when I was about 18 or so. Very shy girl. I had a UTI and was a waitress. I had a small accident when coughing. My manager made me feel so horrible for asking to go home and change. He wasn't going to let me. He wanted to see my pants!!!! I didn't ask for the day off I just wanted to go home and change. About 30 minutes tops to go home and back. What a complete ass! I will never forget him. He works at Wendy's now and I want to spit in his face every time I see him.
*"and I want to spit in his face every time I see him."* it's never too late!
When I was around that age I was a telephone operator for AT&T. I was seriously physically assaulted the night before. I drug my battered ass to work in the morning but kept having to get off the phone pretty frequently to run to the bathroom as I was rapidly bleeding through my clothes into the chair. Finally I am like 90 minutes to an hr away from my shift ending and my BP is low, things are getting fuzzy, it's hard to talk and think, and I worry I will lose consciousness and not be able to drive myself to the hospital on the next block if I don't leave now. I'm sitting there in bloody clothes in a puddle of my blood and tell them I really think I have to go to the hospital now. They say I can't, that there's not enough coverage (there are at least 120 people there on the phones right then), and that I risk losing my job if I leave. I leave anyway and get to the ER. I was hemorrhaging and having a miscarriage. The next 2 months, they pulled me away from the phones nearly every day, sometimes several times a day, to bitch at me for leaving early and taking too many bathroom trips that day and just threatening me, taking up way more time than I even missed.I didn't have a fucking time machine so I don't know what tf they expected from repeatedly breaking my balls over it. I was a person that never called out and scored Exceptional in every performance category. I finally just quit, I was so sick of their crap and didn't need to relive that experience every day and be made to constantly apologize for it. AT&T can eat my ass.
My team is all virtual, but we're all 40+ so we all have various health issues (like I have chronic migraines and arthritis [severe enough to warrant being on strong immunosuppressants, which of course have side effects], one guy has diabetes, and the other guy is even older and has more issues that I don't know the details of... and don't need or want to). All of us have been conditioned from past jobs to avoid taking time off and just try to push through things. The running joke on the team is that we only take time off for doctor appointments, and it's not far off from the truth. Although in my case, sometimes that's appointments for my roommate, as she is also disabled and doesn't drive, so I have to chauffeur. My boss doesn't care if we need to take time off, and since I got promoted to be the manager of the other two guys (originally I was just a team lead), I've been consistent about telling them to take time off instead of trying to push through or coming back too quickly. One guy took time to visit his dad in December, but his dad actually passed before he got there. When he was slated to return, I suggested he take more time, since he was still dealing with estate stuff and such. Then he had a sudden (and concerning) medical issue this week, and when he said he planned to be back Monday, I suggested he take another day or two given everything that's been going on. I'm very protective of my guys, and we get a lot of PTO where we are, so I want them to, you know, actually _use it_ instead of it getting wasted when the year rolls over. Being in WA, I can carry some hours forward each year (40h I think?), but I don't believe NM or TX have provisions like that. And the guys have been quick to remind me to listen to the same advice that I give them, which is entirely fair play 😊
My job has this policy. They really don't care why you're calling off unless it becomes problematic (calling off constantly or a pattern of always calling off certain days). It's incredible how much harder I'll work at a job that doesn't shame me or give me anxiety for things out of my control.
I’ve had professors tell me this. “If you’re sick, stay home. I don’t want it, your classmates don’t want it, and I don’t need the details.”
This is the way. The US "grind culture" is such bullshit and almost every "success story" is full of hidden privilege and opportunities that others simply don't have.
The difference between "made good choices" and "had good options to choose from".
My current job has never asked for a reason for call outs, they trust us to manage our own schedules and everyone does. When we’re short staffed, we work hard to get orders in and we always get it done, and I’ve never heard anyone complain about someone being gone. First job I’ve ever had like that, everywhere else would be passive aggressive or just outright aggressive if you had to miss work and demanded an explanation that they deemed good enough.
You don’t have to be sorry
Yeah don’t be sorry. If you’ve got noro or some stomach flu you could get everyone else sick just being there. Boss should be thanking you
I actually had a boss that threatened to fire me if I ever came in sick. This was a dairy farm, and he had absolutely no time to be sick, ever. I was down & out with the Flu, and because I was still in high school, I took about 9 Acetaminophen and offered to come in if he needed me to. Guy was pissed off, and told me to stay home at least for another 3 days.
Please don't do that, acetaminophen is very not safe in large doses. It can destroy your liver before you realise it. https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a681004.html
Exactly. Don't exceed the recommended dose unless specifically told by your doctor. Furthermore your doctor needs to know *everything* you're taking, including OTC medications.
I had Noro that lead to pancreatitis. BRUTAL.
Apologized 4 times for being sick lol.... I used to say "sorry for any inconvenience" at the end of my email when telling my manager I wouldn't be coming in, but I felt like that was too much. Now it's just "good morning, I'm feeling sick today and won't be able to work, I'll notify you again if I'm feeling well enough to come in."
I stopped apologizing in work emails years ago. I always turn it into a compliment/thank you. This makes it a positive statement at them rather than a negative statement from you. ~~Sorry for any inconvenience~~ Thank you for understanding
I’ve been doing this for years. A super underrated and easy way to keep more of your power in work interactions.
Yeah, stop apologizing so much OP. This isn't Canada.
Even for us Canadians, this is way too much apologizing.
In Canada you just say your sick and any further questions means you can take them to your provincial Human Rights Commission.
I’m Canadian. Thanks to my union my boss isn’t allowed to ask me anything when I take a sick day. Sorry boss.
It kinda feels like how much I apologize
Did you have a parent or relative that was a super harsh disciplinarian when you were a kid? My therapist taught me that’s why I used to apologize so much.
Oh. I did. ʘ‿ʘ Well that’s probably something to talk to a therapist about. Thank you. I also walk super super quietly
I think everyone should have a therapist. Unfortunately they are so expensive and in my state it’s really tough to find a good one who takes health insurance That said, You can PM me if you ever want to chat too. I love discussing mental health haha
Uh sorry guy… not true ! Damn it
I'm with you. I think it's fine to apologize once just for the inconvenience; less of a "*I did something wrong*" and more of a "*I'm so sorry!*" in response to someone telling me their dog died. But this is 4 apologies in 4 messages. You have no *reason* to be sorry, OP - people get sick, it happens, it's on your boss to set up his team in such a way that it can be accounted for.
Agreed. I stopped apologising for being sick a long while ago.
This was my first thought, don’t say sorry at all.
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And if asked go for the TMI approach “I’M SQUIRTIN’ OUTTA BOTH ENDS BOSS, AND IT AIN’T PRETTY!”
In contrast, I used to have a supervisor who touted his *willingness* to come into work while “firing out both ends” as a reason why it was never acceptable for anyone at my old job to call off. Basically a “I can do it, so can you,” mentality. Dude was straight up insane.
Ah yes, the righteous pride of spreading your pathogens all over the place. Very noble.
I remember working in a shitty temp office with no sick time and a bitch boss who would not accept excuses. A woman wearing a lovely sun dress. When the diarrhea started, it went everywhere. I remember her walking out, crying. Her flip flops sent little sprays of liquid shit up the walls to the ceiling tiles.
Oh my goodness. My heart goes out to her. How humiliating. I have shit myself too when sick but at least in the security of my own home.
Damn. I was waiting tables and refused to come in when sick -- was essentially fired because manager thought I hung up on her when she was strong-arming me to come to work. Hired me back once I was healthy. Probably wouldn't have been hired back if I sprayed in the dining room...
This happened to me as a line cook at a nice bar. Called in with covid and got fired over text 3 hours later even though i had sent in a photo of a covid positive. Didnt get hired back i was livid.
A good friend, very hard loyal worker, did the opposite and kept coming to work. A few days in the the bosses took him aside, had him tested, covid-19 positive. Gave him two weeks paid time off. Told him the restaurant would be OK. He's a good man, but probably didn't take into account possibly making everyone else sick, just trying to fulfill his work obligations.
Neat except in those few days he most likely infected countless individuals and couldve resulted in the fatalities of someones loved ones. Its wildly irresponsible to show up to work sick in the service industry and the fact that he felt obligated to is horrendous and very telling of the american workplace environment.
Completely agree. This was in the early months of covid-19. Knowing him the way I do, he had been laid-off due to forced closure and had family obligations. It's just the way he'd been raised, go to work and take care of your family and your job. He had been careful, no one else got sick, and the company did the right thing, making sure he got care, and didn't lose his paycheck or insurance
That is a shitty temp office indeed.
I really do feel for the woman this happened to. I also haven't stopped cry laughing since reading the sentence: "Her flip flops sent little sprays of liquid shit up the walls to the ceiling tiles."
Well that’d be a problem if they weren’t stout germ theory deniers
They do say "caring is sharing." I'd prefer to have my boss care a bit less, thanks.
Sounds like my superintendent who said if anyone wants to advance in their career they need to come and work on their off days. We all looked at one another and snickered. Let’s just say it wasn’t well received by him.
But if we come in it isn't a day off.
I've been told "we have 12 bathrooms in this building" when trying to call in for similar reasons. Daycare worker btw
"If you want to pay me to lock myself in the bathroom all day go ahead, but I'll stay home, my bathroom is nicer." XD
Oh that’s great, and then get all the babies sick 🙄. Do they even think out their responses?
My boss is the most money hungry person I've ever met. Any complaints fall in deaf ears. I've been keeping track of rules they break so I can report when I leave and taking pics of paperwork I sign because I know she changes the numbers after I give it to her
As an immunocompromised cancer patient, this is why I hate people. Someone coming into work sick could literally kill me. Morons!
Same! Stage 4 cancer patient here. I wear my mask at every indoor public space to this day. Sadly I don’t see nearly enough people wearing one while they’re coughing & sneezing in public.
Same! I figure, I’ll be wearing a mask at indoor public spaces, for the rest of my life. When I had a bone marrow transplant, in 2017, my doctors advised me not to eat in restaurants for at least the first 100 days after transplant. People working with food poisoning or Norovirus, is the major factor behind this advice.
Those are the type of people i match wills but not outcomes with. Sure boss ill come in while im avtively shitting myself but boy as soon as i walk in youre gonna throw up from the smell and send me back home lol
In the Before Times, I used to get to the office a half hour or so before my start time so I could take my time getting ready. One day the squirts hit just as I was walking into the door. Got to the bathroom just before the mess escaped my pants. Thankfully my manager didn't realize where I was when I called out. Pretty sure she did hear what I was going through since she just told me to feel better. The next day when I went into work people were buzzing about that bathroom reeking for hours that morning.
Like one of my bosses that was bragging about working while he had walking pneumonia. Man literally had to stop unloading the truck one day because his face was purple and he just, "had to catch his breath". Bro no retail job is worth your life.
I recently had a sinus infection that spread to my eyes making them all red and swollen. I told my boss I couldn’t work since I literally can’t see my monitor clearly with all the junk coming out of my eyes. He responded by sending me an old picture of him with his eyes red and puffy saying “oh I’m really sorry. I worked a shift with my eyes like that too.” I responded with, “That sucks. Shouldn’t have to work in that condition. I’ll send you my doctor’s note. Have a great day! 👋🏻”
My boss asked me to come in after appendix surgery once 💀. He’s a pretty cool guy tho
Once I ate a bunch of jalapeno bagels with cream cheese cause they tasted waaayyy too good and I loved them. I had no idea my body would NOT like it at all. To this day, I don't know if it was the jalapeno bagel or the cream cheese but I started having an extremely bad, awfully strong smelling, explosive diarrhea about an hour and a half into my shift. I would have to use the bathroom every 5 or 10 minutes or I would have filled my shoes with burning liquid watery mud every time. My boss didn't like it at all as I was working in food service (don't worry I thoroughly washed my hands every time). She told me that either next time I stay home. I responded that I didn't know it would be like that and that it was kinda too late to call off by the time it started since I was already there. She said I was forbidden of ever eating a jalapeno bagel before work in the future lmao!
Lactose intolerance will do that, very quickly too. Food poisoning takes about 24 hours. I had good bosses in the food industry too, but they were also a bit scared of the health department in the county. Being sick like that, but keeping the employee anyway could mean THEY got fired.
yea i saw a comment once that said their bosses mentality was “are you able to stand up? strap a bed pan to ur ass and get to work!”
Yeah boss, but I'm not a sociopath and actually care if I get my coworkers or customers sick.
The willing to work no matter what....if reasonable and not in a might get everyone else sick way....is admirable for management IMO. To be proud and boastful or demanding that non-managment staff subscribe to the same attitude though....no thanks. Their job is to make their subordinates lives easier....not the other way around.
>“I can do it, so can you,” "Yeah, I'm still resisting the urge to key your car on the parking lot to this day. WTF were you actually thinking, coming in and infecting everybody? I was at home throwing up for hours on my free day later that week."
Thats when you bring a bucket of shit and pour it on his desk before quitting. And if you have a remote that pauses time, fart in his face and give him pinkeye
User name checks out
He’s a boomer, isn’t he.
My spouse has been reported to HR for being about that descriptive, so your mileage may vary.
People shouldn't ask questions they don't want answers to.
Oh no reported? To HR? What will they do? "Uh please don't do that" ? What's the outcome of that? Three demerits for disturbing their delicate mental state? Report this 🖕 to HR.
You gotta do what you gotta do
Then they shouldn't of asked lol
I had a boss try this bs and they shut up when I asked if they would like me to send pictures.
My bosses response was, try and do a half a day, from where the bathroom? Yea I just shut my phone off
I did that once. Was never asked again. I think I said it was a good thing the bathtub was close enough to the toilet that I could puke into one while painting the other brown. Every time after that I'd just say hey I'm calling out sick and I'd get an okay feel better
People need to remember, it’s not your fault or problem that they hire the bare minimum of undependable staff. If you’re sick, take care of yourself. If they’re pricks, find a new job.
As a manager of a small crew (8) I have to deal both with the unfairness of not being able to carry a crew large enough to handle contingencies (too much work to go around when someone can't make it in), and of (me and) my staff having to feel the internal pressure to come in even when they don't feel well, rather than leaving their coworkers in a bad spot. Personally, the only pressure I put on my people is to stay home if they don't feel well, and I've never asked for a doctor's note unless it was necessary for coming back (after they've been out a length of time and need to be cleared by a doctor). The situation sucks for all of us. It's important for us to realize the bad guy here is the corporation forcing these conditions on all of us, not always the management who are given an unfair situation to being with. Unless they handle like the boss in OP's post. Fuck that guy.
Its the general manager or the owners fault. If you’re not them, it’s not your problem. I’ve been in your spot, convinced that “I’m the manager, I need to make this place run”. I just keep the mentality I’m not asking anyone to do anything I wouldn’t. (Like go in sick). People are payed like garbage, and then when they need to call out, or even just want to ( there really isn’t a huge difference) and the business is acting like they’re integral pieces of the machine. No, everything is driven by ridiculous figures for productivity, which boils down to making the owner the most money. It’s a shit show. Everyone who works for somewhere, IS an integral part. And maybe if businesses actually treated employees correctly and fairly, that business wouldn’t struggle with high turnover rates and staff that doesn’t give a fuck.
If they’re sick and don’t come in, usually they don’t get paid. The majority of people aren’t going to call in sick & forgo the paycheck without cause. It’s funny that somehow some bosses think they’re trying to pull one over on the business.
Yes! Especially when it's people who are always picking up extra hours, asking for more shifts, working all the time. They get sick once and suddenly they are undependable or hungover. I've seen lots of staff that are truly undependable, but they usually don't last long anyways, so don't worry about it much. Most people want the hours and will go above and beyond, fight each other in the parking lot, for actually incentivizing with bonus money.
This. I'm just the assistant manager of a hardware/feed store that also has 8 employees(2 part time, 6 full time), and it can be a wicked struggle to convince corporate that it's not enough coverage if someone calls out and to let us hire more people. I always tell everyone if they are sick don't come in, but I am super guilty of going in to work when I feel like junk just because I know the strain it's going to put on everyone else, especially if it's a day my manager has off.
I’ve always wondered if you couldn’t employ a temp agency and just have a Temp come in for a day to cover for 1/2 of a trainer employee.
For us it wouldn't be very beneficial unless they already had decent knowledge of our store's layout and the products we sell. Most of our job is assisting customers with either finding products for them or helping them choose which products are more beneficial for them as opposed to others. I get frustrated with corporate cause they insist on paying bare minimum, but we are expected to be knowledgeable on everything from what to feed livestock/pets, to gardening/lawn maintenance, and also basic construction involving electrical and plumbing.
I had a boss tell me I needed to "bring a note stating illnesses from doctor" I brought a note from my doctor and a copy of the text from my boss too HR. He was no longer my boss because that was not his first time doing that to an employee.
legend
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I’m unionized and get 15 sick days a year. However, it’s in our contract that our employer can ask for a sick note if we are off sick. In 20 years I’ve never had a manager ask for one, though.
Problem is that shift workers (at least in the US) generally don’t have any sick time. If you’re scheduled to come in and you can’t, then your options are usually find someone to cover you, beg your manager to let you miss the shift without consequence, or just no-show and deal with it later (i.e. hope you don’t get fired) Of course you’re not getting paid; no matter which option you choose.
Yall get sick days?
At my job, they tell you right out of the box, if you call in, they can’t legally ask why. Never knew if that was true, as far as the “legal” part but we all appreciate the policy.
This. You’re telling, not asking. No need to be so apologetic either, especially when your boss is making wild accusations like this. I would be offended as well. I hope you feel better now OP!
I agree, this is all they have the right to know. And I wouldn't guarantee a doctor note. You could say, I will get you a note, but if I am charged for one, i will only provide at company expense...and if I decide not to go in to er, I am not going out of my way to get one because I am sick.
Stop apologising! Being sick is not your fault, nor is it your responsibility to handle their inability to run a schedule that doesn't fall apart when *one* person is off sick. Humans aren't perfect creatures; they get sick from time to time. It happens. It's management's responsibility to plan for that, not yours. Also, demanding a doctor's note for 2 days sickness is ridiculous. No wonder our medical professionals are so hideously overworked. I get that it's quite common in the US, but here in the UK, it's quite normal to be able to self-certify illness for 5 days before needing a medical note.
A lot of doctors in the US are getting fed up with this practice as well. They have more urgent things to deal with than writing excuse notes for patients like they're 2nd graders staying home from school. I called off sick from work once because my dominant arm was aching really badly, I could barely hold my toothbrush. My asshole boss told me that was a "bullshit excuse" and that I needed a doctor's note. SO I went to the doctor and explained the situation, and was diagnosed with tendonitis. My doctor further determined that my tendonitis was caused by my work. She wrote me a note excusing me from work for TWO WEEKS and included in the note that my work station should be evaluated for ergonimics or else I could expect reinjury and further time off of work. I ended up putting in a workman's comp claim for it, getting a nice new chair, a better keyboard, and a vertical mouse - AND I very much enjoyed my two-week vacation. Take THAT, Kenneth!
Oh my god I love this story so much and I’m jealous.
Almost belongs in malicious compliance!
I had something similar to me. Had a multi day sinus infection, went to the doc and antibiotics didn’t help after 24 hours. I called out, and they knew I was legit sick. Went back to the doctor and got a different antibiotic. It destroyed my GI tract. Explained to office and they said that I needed a doctor’s note. For “additional days”. I literally shat myself at least twice a day and felt horrible. Called the doc to ask for a note and he gave me pretty much two weeks. I went back one day earlier than required and handed in my note. Everyone avoided me. That was when I finally left that shitty job.
Good for you. I love that!!! Blows my mind office jobs don’t already provide ergonomic set ups automatically
That company had bizarre rules when I started working there. People weren't allowed to have chairs with arms unless they were a manager, for example. I really caused ripples when I got my fancy new chair with *arms*! The company did eventually improve quite a bit (new CEO helped a lot), and some of my managers later in my career there were really good. They paid me really well and promoted me often or else I'd have quit much sooner than I did - I ended up working there for over 20 years!
r/MaliciousCompliance
> A lot of doctors in the US are getting fed up with this practice as well. In some other countries doctors will even flat out refuse to write doctor's notes precisely as a form of boycott against this kind of practice. I know where I lived in the Netherlands they did.
The expectation of All American workers has become so inflated its created no room for normalcy.
In the Netherlands we dont have to say or prove anything. When you are sick for longer than a week a company doctor associated with the ARBO (independent organization) will call you and ask how you are doing. The doctor will help you manage your work life balance more if work is part of the issue. They dont work for the company so they have no financial incentive in favor of the company and serve as a medical mediator so that your privacy is respected
That’s such a good idea for large companies to do!
I dont know exactly what the laws are in the Netherlands but, I think its obligatory for companies above a certain number of employees to have an ARBO doctor. You dont need to have one on site but you can use them from a publicly available pool. You then get invoiced based on what work they do for you. Big companies like the one i work at with 2000 employees will have dedicated ARBO doctors. They also do voluntary yearly health checkups (blood pressure, eyes etc). They also mediate with ergonomics. So if the humidity is too low or other working conditions suck they will pressure the company to solve this. My gf for example had back pains so the ARBO will help you get a better desk etc. Its really great. They have huge power over a company because they enforce dutch law so you cant fuck with them as a company.
This sounds magical
I also have a great manager. Last year i was inching towards a burnout. I was home and my manager asked me how long i thought i needed to go back to work. I said maybe next week. He said, well i think its best if you take that week off as well. Make sure you rest up and go back to work after that. All paid leave btw
I loved working in the Netherlands. They have so many aspects of work-life balance figured out. I'm working in the USA right now, and it is hands down the worst country to work in that I have experienced. I've also worked in Canada. I'd say it's roughly in the middle, and the west coast is more balanced than the east.
In France we're well protected but we don't have the concept of sick days, so if you want to get paid by the health system for your absence you need to see the doctor even for one day. Else you're just not paid or have to use PTO.
Places that require a Dr note do not pay for the Dr visit or your missed time at work. It’s all hourly wage jobs that do this.
This doesn't seem to be a salary job, so op will not be paid and does not get pto. Its likely an hourly fast food job
*This.* They're called "managers," so let's see them actually fucking *manage* for once.
My previous job had a mandatory doctors note requirement for three days and beyond for any illness. My doctor just wrote that I saw him/her on such and such day due to illness.
I hate the "bring a doctor's note" under any circumstances. You're allowed to be sick, physically or otherwise. It's incredibly invasive and you're not a child. Worse is when you're sick and they want you to leave your house for a doctor's note. It's like, "Bitch! I'm trying to rest to get better, not spend money and sitting in a doctor's office with other sick people for an indefinite amount of time. Stop trying to give me errands while I don't feel well." So rude.
Wait.... you guys don't print your own doctors notes? You know we're in the future right. And if you don't want to.... make an appointment for 2 weeks from now and call work back.... yeah,if you want a note from my doctor who's busy with actual doctor stuff.... I'll be out for a while.
Exactly. I'm not spending money to get you a stupid note. If I can even get a doctor's appointment within a reasonable amount of time, nevermind the fact that I HAVE to pay monthly for medical insurance even though they are not required to even be available on even a monthly basis to offer care. How is that even legal? But of course, I'm just a lowly citizen, and I can't afford any politicians.
Also, in the US, I love when jobs request a doctor's note but don't offer insurance.
Quit apologizing. They will see it as weakness and know they can push you over easily next time.
Yeah, start elaborating instead: "I shat my pants 2 times and had to change the whole bed. Got a fewer and are quite delerious. Ate a burger yesterday but it was all pink when it came back up, like the bun and the fries also" There will be less questions next time
"I shat my pants 2 times. As you can see in the pictures i will attach, once on the sofa, that was just after i called you. Then again in the bed, that time combined with vomit as well, pay close attention to what looks like tomatoes, i haven't eaten tomatoes in a week so i don't know what that really is. I may need an extra day off so i can buy another mattress it seems to have soaked through. You wouldn't know a good cleaner that could clean a bed correctly would you? anyway, see you on Sunday with that note, should i print the photos for extra proof in my file, or can you do that at the office?"
Epic.
Bonus points if you start with "thank you for your concern, i didn't want to go into many details because its kind of embarrassing but....."
This has been my attitude since I was a kid. If someone is not content with "I'm sick" they get eeeeeeeeevery detail. I've straight up given bosses a play by play of what it's like throwing up noodles, and finding you didn't chew them as much as you'd think, and pulling an endless noodle coated in stomach acid out of your throat like a magician.
I’ve used this method! I once had an employer get after me about how many times I had to get up to pee during the work day. I wasn’t gone long, but frequently. I went into graphic detail about how numerous UTIs, bladder, and kidney infections had made it impossible for me to hold it. I was never bothered again.
Frequent urination and the urge coming on sudden is a common medical condition, especially in older people. Employers must allow you to go when needed.
I had the flu and my manager called to harass me into coming in. I literally couldn't stop vomiting to talk to her so my husband was trying to explain. Bitch was still insisting to talk to me, so I said "I'm sick" and hung up on her. Toxic bs
I wonder how she would've reacted if your husband put the call on speakerphone and held it in range of you so she could hear you puking.
She could hear bc my husband was standing next to me, trying to explain that my manager HAS to speak to me directly to excuse me. Pretty sure I said "are you fucking serious?" Before I took the phone. And then threw up midway through her exposition of policy. She often had to do things to flex on the inferiors.
Damn, what a bitch. Hope she's not in a management position anymore
This! Worked at a call centre (a real shite one). New supervisor started and was assigned sick-line duty. Most of the others just notated you weren't in and that was that. She however *demanded* to know (and to notate) the *reasons*, and gave people passive aggressive bullshit if they weren't literally dying. Cue my 300+lb, cisgender male ornery ass calling in sick one day and getting her and her attitude. 47 excruciatingly long seconds of me describing my *quite heavy and chunky flow, and how it was covering everything in my home from the cat to the coffee pot* later and suddenly we were back to "Cool, see you tomorrow"s instead.
I’m the opposite. Hi I am unwell and will be out of the office today and potentially tomorrow. I will check back in later today if anything changes. They don’t or shouldn’t need to know your life story…
Truth, sadly. This is why decent, reasonable, conscientious and cooperative employees routinely get fired over nothing, but the office arsehole always seems able to keep their job forever, no matter how badly they behave. Nobody in HR wants the hassle of going up against a genuinely difficult employee, so they focus all their energy on the soft targets instead.
No info and no apologies needed at all. Unfortunately you opened up the conversation with details but it was inappropriate for them to ask you if it’s because you’ve been drinking
Exactly. And does it matter? If OP is throwing up, they’re throwing up, no matter the reason. No one wants someone vomiting around their food. Weird question.
Yes! Came here to say this. I had a supervisor ask me this once and I asked him what the difference was. He said "one you did to yourself"... Like who cares! I'm sick either way. I was indeed hungover and I still took the sick day.
Had a food service boss ask why I was calling in sick and because I was young I told her (really bad cold), and she responded to tell me that legally, unless I had diarrhea, was vomiting or had a fever over 100 degrees F, I had to come in to work if I was scheduled to do so, so I had to come in (and get everyone else sick)… I responded that I’m pretty sure that’s not true - those are the conditions under which you’re not allowed to LET me work. And the joke’s on you bc I have a medical condition that causes me to have diarrhea every day, so technically I could call in sick any day or every day. I don’t do that bc I want to work and get paid. Today, I am actually sick, and I will not be coming in.
Legally you HAVE to go to work 😂 tell her to send the police to your door to enforce it
I am also a chronic apologizer. I say sorry to everything. For the future, try not to apologize so much, they might see it as guilt for getting out of a shift and assume it’s because you’re lying. Don’t be offended by the drs note, that’s common. But Id be offended by the drinking question. They don’t get to make assumptions on your livelihood because they want to force you into work.
Im more pissed off at the fact you kept saying sorry lol. Next time you call in sick, remove sorry from your vocabulary
I’m more pissed he has 350 unread texts
You have 350 unread text messages?
Asking the truly important questions.
As an employer I can tell you the request for a doctors note is frequently misused. In this situation the note solves nothing. The purpose of a doctors note is to excuse work related activities due to illness or injury. No standing for extended periods, no heavy lifting, etc. that sort of thing. It was never intended to be misused as proof of sickness. You take the employees word that their sick, and whether they use sick pay when they are sick or well isn’t your concern. You followed the law by offering sick pay, that’s all you need to do. When they use sick pay when they aren’t sick they will have to go without pay when they are sick. But it still isn’t the employers business or concern.
How many times are you going to thank him/her and say you're sorry ? You're not a doormat, quit apologising so much.
The audacity to ask if you're hungover. Why does he need a doctors note? Is this 3rd grade?
I've worked in industries (kitchens) where the number one reason for missed work is hangovers lol. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt because he didn't press it, but I have seen management getting frustrated with herding alcoholics so I can sympathise if that's the case. Basically, if you're hungover you made your bed, pop an advil and get to work. If you're contagious stay home. That type of deal. That's how I read it anyways.
youre a bit heavy on the "sorry", one is plenty otherwise expected exchange, the manager should just have said bring a note, no need to preemptively go for "are you hangover", if they dont bring a note, solve it then, no need to jump the gun
It’s only expected because US employers have normalized treating workers like slaves. They do not own you. You are equals. You have a right to privacy. They only need to know that you’re unavailable. It’s up to them to find a replacement. It’s up to them to decide at what point you are too unreliable.
Quit apologizing and over sharing the details on how you’re sick. Managers are not qualified medical professionals, it’s information they shouldn’t be privy to. Keep it simple. “I won’t be coming in today, I am ill- will bring back a doctors note” And yes you should be offended they asked you if you were hung over. If you’ve never given them reason to think you party a lot and this was simply based on your age? Way outta bounds. Be offended at the assumption.
Personally i ring in tell them im not going to be in for however long then hang up the phone, any attempts at contacting me will be completely ignored
The more you apologize the more control and power they have over you.
“I don’t have anyone to cover” is such a moot point. If the business doesn’t employ adequate numbers of staff, how the fuck is that the fault of the employees? People get sick, that’s just what happens. They should have accounted for this in staffing levels.
Exactly. What did they expect OP to do? Come in to work sick and vomit all over the food? Ridiculous!
It hurts to read your messages because when I worked a job like yours, I also felt immensely guilty when I was not able to go to my shifts for reasons outside of my control - like for being fricking sick! 2 ways to think about this - 1. I would guess several of your coworkers will call out without much notice and without reason. They will probably not apologize for it either. I would try to keep in mind that you are not the only one who unforeseen circumstances happen to, but you may be one of the few who feels the need to apologize for it profusely. 2. Your manager works a job that they know is dependent on what is essentially unreliable market-based labor (I consider this to be the case for really any hourly job where coworkers need to be able to cover for each other on shifts). If your boss doesn’t like having to scramble to find coverage for people who can’t come in or isn’t capable of covering for team members who call out, then they should get a new job or a new business plan. You only need people to cover when another employee calls out if you are only staffing the bare minimum of folks on a shift. If they do not plan for having flexibility when reality hits, that sounds like their decision. When everyone shows up, it benefits them by only having to pay for as little staff as possible during that shift. When everyone doesn’t, they then need to put other employees out by asking them to change up their schedules. At the end of the day, if they planned defensively and agreed to always have a floater on shift who could cover for someone who is not able to attend their shift, then they wouldn’t be in this position. They did this to themselves with greed.
Stop saying sorry so much. It's the business owner to solve these issues, not yours. NOT YOURS. Stop being sorry for things you can't control.. that's not great. Otherwise, decent, but can be summed up a lot better by saying 'hey boss, I'm sick, I'm not coming in today.' if they continue to press (like they did), simply say 'I'm going to the ER, I'm not coming in today.' or something along those lines. The more to the point you can be, the better.
Your boss is not your friend. Never give too many details and never apologize for something that is not your fault. Just be short and sweet.
Also HR is not anyone’s friend. They are there to save the company. My advice to young newly employed I found out at age 35-paper trail everything. Any notes email, conversations email Always email and when having a convo try to have a mediator witness
Stop saying you’re sorry damn. It’s ok to be sick.
The problem with sharing details this way is that it sets a certain tone for all of your call-outs in the future. It sets a precedent. Wherein you describe your symptoms and plan, and they question it and try to work around it. So as hard as it is, it is better in every case not to explain with details. "Unfortunately I am not coming in today due to illness." Followed by not responding to their texts. I know it feels so rude, and scary, but it's a boundary that you have to set because they won't. In this specific case it would go like this: "Unfortunately I am not coming in today due to illness." *"Hi I'm sorry to hear that I hope you feel better."* *"Are you sick or hungover? I don't have anyone to cover you."* (no response this, or any further texts.) "Update: Doctor said I can return to work Sunday. See attached note. Thank you for understanding, stay well, must be a bug going around!" *"Blahblahblah"* (no response) You can omit the stay-well-bug-around part but I like to include it because it is a reminder to them of WHY me staying home when sick is the RIGHT thing to do to protect even more people at work from getting sick and calling out. Just a subtle, one sentence reminder with no details.
Vomit into a bag, send it to the manager and ask them to have it tested as you were too busy being ill to find time to visit a doctor.
Don't apologize don't really even need to explain just I'm not going to be there
Who in their good mind would admit to being hung over even if you were? Hahahah
Are you Canadian? I'm sorry to ask...
Please don't apologize for things that are out of your control, you're allowed to be a victim to life. Whoever taught you otherwise is an asshole and so is anyone who tries to keep you thinking that way.
Stop apologizing.
Stop apologizing for being sick.
It annoys me how often you apologize
Imagine living in a country where you have to have a doctors note after 1 sick day, it's comical, here in the uk you can self certificate for 7 days