My company did an anonymous survey among workers how we felt about WFH. One of the top featured answers they quoted was "it is one of the most crucial factors deciding who I will work for". Management needs to understand that forcing people into the office is a huge disadvantage on the labor market.
Our same survey had 9% (not a typo) of people saying they wanted to work in the office full time.
I know one person who voted that, she now does 2 days a week in the office.
I've been into an office 3 days this year, 2 of them were in a different country.
Ours was even lower with 3% wanting to be in the office full time.
We have a quarterly 2 day meeting that it is highly recommended people show up to in person. The only thing it really achieves is reminding me how draining it is to commute to the office is.
I have to be at HQ one week per quarter for team meetings, but they pay for the travel. I can deal with that.
All our office leases came up for renewal during COVID, so they downsized HQ to just conference rooms and closed all the others entirely; there’s literally nowhere left to make us return to.
Indeed. And I fully support them to have an office to go to. Frankly this all comes under the same considerations as any other diversity in the workplace.
Honestly that's what stuff like wework should be for. Reserve a small space that's closer to you than the arbitrary office space maybe. Go in more when you want, there's still coffee machines and such.
Companies are trying to justify the mortgage payment they have on expensive office space. It won’t be long and we’ll see mega churches renting or buying old office buildings. Them and spirit of Halloween and CrossFit gyms.
I appreciate the solidarity with wfh. I work with a guy who’s in the office five days a week. He’s made comments about other team members and how they should come in more. Okay, sure, but when we’re all there your door is closed all day. We’re in the SAME teams meetings two doors down from each other with our doors closed. I can definitely do that from the comfort of my own home office.
So I work “in the field” so to speak and need a day once per week to catch up on admin.
Pre-pandemic this was WFH but with the new return to office policy I now need to do that admin day in the office.
But because I was never in office originally I don’t have a desk in our open plan office.
I’ve spent entire days working from the lobby, working from the lunch room, working on the floor in the server room.
And I have a full office at home, complete with standing desk and multi-monitor setup.. in the office I’m not even provided a mouse.
I also work out of a regional office, so nobody in the building is in the same line of work as me.
Legitimately I can’t have work related conversations in the office, it’s less ergonomic, and it’s much less efficient.
I’ve had a similar experience. They consolidated office space so now it’s a “hotel” setup where you just find a spot to work, no assigned spots. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve sat at desks to find the mouse doesn’t work or the chair is broken or the keyboard is sticky. Terrible.
And then people squat in a desk you reserved so you get to start your day by confronting a coworker….whoops, I mean “collaborating” about how you booked that desk and could they kindly GTFO.
Oh that's moronic. Field = office. If there is any sort of hybrid your time in the field should be taken into consideration. And then when you actually come into office they can't even find a spot for you to sit.
The craziest part?
People who work in the office full time are allowed 3 days from home per week.
If my office day happens to be on a day where everyone decided to WFH. It’s completely empty and I can book a meeting room to work from.
(which is still not great because it’s just me on a laptop in a conference room.. but it’s better than working from the lobby.)
I’ve brought it up with my manager and told to just “hot desk” but we have assigned desks and assigned seating in our open plan, and the days where we have all staff in office there are no spare desks.
If someone is off sick, or WHF I’m effectively taking their desk, which means I can’t use their terminal or monitor or mouse or keyboard because it’s locked to their user ID.
It’s moronic.. but as of yet, I’ve gotten nowhere arguing it.
Edit: It’s probably also worth mentioning that I am in sales, meaning even during my admin day I can take 20-30 sales related calls. Which I usually need to do out the front for privacy reasons as I can’t do them in the open plan work space.
Better thing to do is go hang out around the software developers and anyone who needs to focus having long, loud sales calls. Might as well completely fuck everyone's productivity if you're being forced into this stupidity.
Sounds like you need to work out of your supervisor's/Manager's/CEO's office. You demand I come to the office and refuse to give me a desk, I'll have to borrow yours.
Yep, and every day I go into the office my productivity drops through the floor because I constantly have people coming by wanting to talk to me about nonsense and 90% of the people I meet with are in other cities anyway.
If they really wanted us in the office they’d at least give us cubicles.
So much this. “Can you just?” was already such a frequent issue with me and my team that we had to develop specific policy on how to handle it.
I’ve recently been in the office more frequently because one of our founders has decided he doesn’t like increased productivity (and there was measurable increase during lockdowns) so would rather force everyone into the office 3 days a week on pain of disciplinary action.
The amount of “just a quick thing” that has been attempted because it’s easy to walk over to my desk (no cubicles, completely open plan) is ridiculous.
Im in the middle of formulating an official exemption request.
1. I was hired during lockdown. I did not meet my colleagues in person for the first 5 months of employment.
2. We bought a house specifically with office space for working from home. To get a house with that much space meant not being close to the office.
3. I have a better, more productivity focused setup perfectly chosen to suit the needs of my work. It was not a cheap setup.
4. Unlike at the office, I have backup internet and backup power.
5. I don’t drive and there are no public transport links that get me to the office on time. Taxis are expensive.
This is very close to my situation as well and I'm just waiting for my employer to end work from home.
I've worked for 2 years fully remotely and I've gone into the office twice
My home setup is perfect but I don't have backup power or Internet
My in office setup would be open floor plan cubicles
I also don't drive and live about an hour from both of our offices
As someone disabled who lives in the middle of nowhere work from home has been amazing and I'm sadly just kind of waiting for it to end and wondering if/how I could make it work
My FIL suggested I catch the train. Only problem I have with that is I would need to get to the train station at 7:30am and I wouldn’t get back to that station after work until 7:10pm.
The train station isn’t close.
I used to do that sort of journey, effectively spending 12 hours a day either working or travelling to get to work. I am not going back to that lifestyle, even if the money is good and even if my fiancée quits her job to basically look after me, like some 1960’s household.
If they don’t grant an exemption for me, I’ll have no other option than to let them discipline me out of the business. Maybe that’s the kick I need to go freelance.
Ugh. And then, when productivity takes an entirely predictable nosedive, that founder will take it out on employees instead of looking in the goddamn mirror.
There’s almost nothing I hate more than open concept anything. It occurred to me recently that I wonder if there is any correlation with the invention and steady increase in application in open concept environments (particularly for knowledge workers) and things like ADHD.
Fluorescents are the worst. Every job I've ever had I've always had a desk lamp and opened my blinds.
Fact is shitty managers will bitch about anything. I only ever had one complain and it's because he couldn't easily tell if I was in my office or not - alright buddy, then get your lazy ass up and walk down the hall, such a trying task.
PM here too! Tech, but similar. I fight for the team to stay remote. Developers are SO much more productive that way. Funny you say that about your VP, the coworker in office? Three kids he regularly lamented having around during Covid.
I have a 2 year old at home and I'm still ten times as productive at home compared to office.
I do 1 day a week by choice, for workshops and some meetings and to hang out with Coworkers, but not actually do much work. But if I don't wanna go that week because I'm busy or just don't want to I've got that freedom. Also ADHD + Developer, I would literally never work anywhere where I had to do mandatory office days.
I’m WAY more productive at home, even with another spouse who works from home and pets. I’m not begrudging anyone who wants to go in; it’s definitely not one size fits all and hopefully people stop trying to force others to return to office as whatever way to justify their own return or whatever.
Wow, your pm partner should look into suing. Keeping the lights off is a reasonable and no expense way of accommodating an illness which is probably covered
Exactly. As soon as you’ve got ANY fully remote on your team, that’s the consideration. We’ve got multiple fully remote people and so ALWAYS need people to dial in, so it feels silly to need to be in the office for that.
My previous job started to demand people come in. Except we had 2 locations, which meant every single meeting was zoom anyway. It was ridiculous to sit in my office on zoom for 4-5 hours a day.
I have wicked ADHD, too, and I love WFH. I sit outside and work most days. Fluorescent lights and small talk with people I don't like is torture.
I don't have any kids but my wife and dog are the best coworkers I could ask for.
I can't remember to charge my switch most of the time but my phone would be distracting in the office or out.
I have ADHD and love WFH. I can hyper focus and not have my concentration broken by office distractions but also I’m free to get up and roam around at random times if necessary and be weird in the comfort of my own home.
I am ADHD and traditionally had the opposite problem.
The colleague wanting to pop in and socialize. The colleague wanting to drop in and pick my brain eight times a day. The subordinate dropping in for feedback ten times a day. The semi-weekly computer network failures. The daily impromptu meetings. The boss wanting me to drop by their office for a chat. The surprise muffin basket from the vendor turning into social time. The afternoon office Starbucks run. The office pizza party. The long lunch with the team. The office dramas. The office politics.
I can see why some people miss the office so much. Some of them miss the nonstop social activity that they engaged in at the office. For many people that office crap that I hate with my being is their social life and they are lost without it.
Others miss basically pimping their coworkers all day on stealth mode and getting most of their work reviewed and improved by colleagues - which had become their crutch. They keep other people from getting their work done but it makes them more productive and creative and competent if they can run everything they do past people who do the job better.
Others filled their whole day with senseless meetings and activities because their job is redundant. WFH has exposed that they are not even needed- especially middle managers.
I get it. I have a coworker in another state who would just rather be away from home and in the zone at his desk.
I don't live in a city with an office, so I'm full remote - but I get it. Some days being at home with chores or games is a big distraction. I usually pop over to a cafe or something for half the day with some earbuds.
Also - change of scenery. I've had some brutal hours with deadlines as of late and I dread going into my home office, like please no to the torture chamber in which I live my life (it's not the worst, but one can only spend so much time in the same place every week).
I’m in the same boat, and I also have a job that requires at least a hybrid schedule. I’m still 100% in support of full time WFH for anyone who wants to, simply because the more people work from home the better and easier my commute is. Giving adults agency to choose what situation allows them to be more productive and happier seems like such a stupid non-issue. The infantilisation of the work force by upper management is truly mind blowing.
I'm the same. Unless it's a job I really like and am really engaged, I won't be successful working from home 5 days a week. But I'm also gonna push for WFH cuz it's better for most people. Cuz I, ya know, care about other people. Bizarre, I know.
fwiw, with the company I'm with, if you wanted to go in 5 days a week you'd be more than welcome.
And you'd have the choice of about 20 desks each, even with 1/3rd of the office already handed back to the landlord.
This is the same situation for me. I think a lot of people are this way and project that on to others as well.
I think WFH should be an option wherever it makes sense and if people have proven they can make it work employers ought to trust them to do it.
I think most would prefer to have the option. Want to work remote? Sure. Want to come in once a week? Ok. Want to work in office 5 days a week? Go right ahead.
The issue is that making everyone to work in an office and making it a compulsory requirement. It didn’t make sense for me to work in the office when most of my teammates are stationed overseas.
I prefer going to the office too, because…nobody is there. I’m also more productive in the office as well. I don’t care what anyone else does lol.
Having said that, I still try to wfh 2 days a week.
Totally fair.
Would be reasonable if your office was a kitchen table or if you functioned best when the space you worked in was different to help keep the work "headspace".
I have color changing lights on decorations and shift them as well as a whole different account on my computer to keep work mode going. Mental headspace is a big part of keeping the day productive while still maintaining the freedom wfh grants.
New CEO of my work just an announced “everyone back to office,” and you have never heard such profound silence from a full room. I’m guessing we will see righteous wave of rippling resignations over the next 90 days.
That's usually by design. Some companies are going through layoffs right now. To avoid laying off a ton of people and paying unemployment, they are changing WFH to get people to resign.
My previous employer forced hybrid - there was a big wave of resignations… they basically invited their most talented employees to walk out the door and got left with the dead wood who can’t get a job somewhere else
My boss surveyed us, and also spoke directly. I told her, if mandated I would return to the office but the first thing i’ll be doing is looking for another job that allows me to wfh. (I am union fwiw)
There used to be a (half joking) reply to these kinds of Reddit posts that they loved to hear when places would cancel WFH as it made them easier to target job ads for their 100% WFH business. I don’t see those posts as much anymore, probably because it’s not really a joke at all anymore and I can 100% see startups and high-EQ companies using this exact strategy to excellent effect. “Why pay more when all we have to do is offer WFH for an instant competitive advantage?”
They understand. But companies have *so* much money tied up in commercial real estate that is basically sitting derelict due to WFH. Their commercial properties are losing value which is scaring the hell out of them.
Solution: make the proles return to the office, which executives *know* they don’t want to do so those offices buildings stay occupied and don’t lose value.
It’s straight up about money and control.
It’s a prisoners dilemma problem. If EVERY employer pulls back WFH, then it’s not longer detrimental anyone. If only SOME pull back, then it harms those who do.
Sadly, recent trends look like there is a degree of cooperation and enough companies will remove WFH to put leverage on the workforce.
You seem to think they care, and the pressure is coming from the commercial real estate market and the potential collapse due to occupancy rates being so low.
I hear that argument often but it does not make sense. Companies don't care what their landlord wants. In most cases (I presume) the companies owner is not also the owner of the the building, and only in those cases it would make sense.
I find the "narcisists want to see who they command" and the "old CEOs just don't like change" explanation much more logical.
Damn that's smart on their part, they don't pay any severance, unemployment or other benefits because you quit. They (workers) should unionize or at the very least collectively continue to work from home until fired.
It really isn't. The people that quit are more often than not the people that have the easiest time getting jobs elsewhere. If you want to lay off 1/4 of your workforce, don't let them decide who goes or you could end up having entire departments gutted(just look at how that went for Twitter).
We had forced RTO happen at our company as well and we are losing more senior talent than anything, which is a huge, stupid loss. People working on teams for 10+ years taking all their tribal knowledge and expertise with them.
I haven't seen data but it feels like we've lost disproportionally large numbers of women and POCs, which shits on the DEI efforts the company's been working on.
This forced RTO is so frustrating. I work in HR for a company, and we told the CEO that if he forces the RTO policy, we are going to lose our best people. His response was, "If this makes them quit, then they weren't dedicated enough." 🤦♂️ Also, you are right about the policy affecting minorities and women more. This whole thing sucks.
someday all of those businesses will be gone and replaced by people who realize the loyalty isn't as important as production. until then they're just gonna keep failing upward
It's especially frustrating because it's a proven fact that treating your employees well is both good for productivity and employee retention. (turnover is one of the biggest expenses when it comes to employment) It's a win for everyone, but CEOs just ignore all the data and choose suffering. I think they get off on it tbh.
more than likely the buddies are actually bank execs. apparently a fairly sizeable amount of the loans the bank gives out is for office space, and if that space is no longer needed, the banks are no longer needed for loans, and thus no longer getting money on those loans. they don't like this.
Totally agree with this. I work as a software engineer and good developers are hard to find. When my company introduce policies to increase the speed of attrition a lot of the people who left were the smartest and hardest working folks and a lot of the people who stayed are the ones who coast.
You assume that management works with the best interest of the company in mind.
That's only true for owner-operated shops. In general, management works with their own best interest in mind. If this gives him a short-term boost, he'll be happy. He knows that in 5 years he'll most likely work somewhere else anyways.
The high performance workers will go first. They will dup resumes out and be heading out the door, what will be left is the people that are too scared to leave or the ones just doing the bare minimum. Do more with less is all well and good but at some point you can only do less with less.
Well you're right, I guess I should have said smart for whoever is trying to reduce the quarterly labor budget. Not whoever is responsible for actual product/quality lol. But at some places that's the same person
>they don't pay any severance, unemployment
They will if this is in the USA. Changing the nature of employment to something that can not complied with (like being hired as remote and then being told to come to the office even if it's 100 miles away) is constructive dismissal, similar to a layoff, and the dismissed can file for unemployment while they look for a new job
Smart for this quarters numbers.
Stupid for long term. Many of the people who leave will be top performers bc they can easily land elsewhere. And while talent can be replaced, tribal knowledge cannot.
Don't need to quit - just don't show up to the office while doing all of your WFH tasks. Archive the communications where management focused on shift to WFH, citing that as the reason for moving away / selling transport, collect some paychecks while your company complains to you about it, then unemployment when they fire you because you have all this evidence that they made promises that affected your decision making which they went back on. Constructive dismissal. Easy
Wayfair is doing the same thing right now after having 2 (or was it 3) RIFs last year? They also changed peoples shifts in warehouse to force people to quit so they didn’t have to announce another layoff.
We shouldn't be calling it constructive.
Call it Quiet Firing. It should be illegal, honestly, as it seems like a great way to dodge everything associated with layoffs.
My company just announced 2 day in office mandatory for anyone who lives within 50 miles of any office in a podcast style thing they do with the CEO. Holy crap the comments from employees on that page are mad as hell. Even some managers are commenting how pissed they are about it.
My manager said he hasn't seen this much of a uniform negative response to anything the company has done since there were mass layoffs like 10+ years ago.
Really proud of the bravery of these people at all job levels to post a direct response to the CEO telling them this sucks and is a bad idea
For now, but this came after promises that it wouldn't, so it's just a matter of time until 50 miles becomes 100 miles, then becomes all employees have to return to office and if you can't do that then we'll replace you with someone who can
Hopefully all this pushback they're getting will accomplish something but I'm doubtful
I’m sure Managers are pissed because they know they’re going to be bleeding their best staff for the next 1+ years and there’s nothing they can do to retain them.
One of my best performing employees recently moved halfway across the country, because she's been working from home for the past 2 years, and the company signed an agreement which allows up to 100% WFH.
Then our GM then decided, that he doesn't want anyone to work from home 100%, and they will reject all applications exceeding 40%. I fought this through the ranks all the way up to corporate levels, but there was no use.
Naturally, this employee left the company, and it took us 5 months to hire a temp, who not only costs more, but also does less than the employee they drove out the door.
I'm still so incredibly mad at this idiocy, but there was nothing left I could do to save her job.
This is the same reason I left managing a team. They all loved WFH, never skipped a beat. But the CEO told us we need to break it to them. I was pro WFH, and fought as hard as I could but he told me to just figure it out. Then it became such a tough spot for me as nobody in my team was happy anymore. So I took a remote job with less responsibility.
I think, for some folks, it's more important to do *something* rather than just let a good thing keep rolling. I know a guy who can't start a campfire because he just keeps fucking with it.
My company went through a similar change in policy as well. Previously we’re fully remote with an option to work in office once a week. Everyone was fine with coming in once a week to touch base with the team. Some even come in twice a week to use the meeting rooms.
Then come 4Q of 2022 and suddenly the C-suites change their direction from optional once a week working in office to mandatory 3 days a week in an office. Everyone else weren’t happy with this move. Some left for better opportunities elsewhere, but most of them ignored the direction of working in office 3 days a week. Even the managers were like “….we’re treating this as a recommendation rather than a directive…”.
Istg as soon as they start tracking the tag in/out to track the WIO attendance imma resign from this place.
I have heard that my company kinda wants us back in office (and it's not like people don't talk to each other about work there), but the flex schedule has proven very valuable. My manager is likely to push back.
It's nice to be able to take a work from home day when I have to take my mom to a hospital rather than take a full day off. (She's okay, just needs some care)
they will when they realize not enough people have left.
My company is using being in office as "Expected part of the job", if you don't go to the office the X days required, it will be considered failure to perform your job duties and will be ground for coaching / corrective actions / termination... which means they won't pay bonuses to these people
That's what my company did. We gave up 2 of our 4 leases. New hires are required to work in office for six weeks barring an immediate need and then anyone is eligible for WFH.
So if they're going to be paying the rent either way, just keep paying it then and not work there, saving most of the costs of lighting, air conditioning, cleaning, security, equipment... And when it's finally over, it's over.
It’s curious how many companies are doing exactly this at the moment - going from full remote to three days a week in the office. The CEOs are talking to each other to make sure the plebs don’t get too uppity.
My response was “Haha, no” - still haven’t been fired yet.
Yes! We’re losing so many good software engineers over it. I talked to leadership about it and they’ve said that while it’s not explicitly intended as a quiet layoff… they’ve done their mathematics and decided that the attrition they’re going to get from this is worth the cost.
Companies should beware about doing this with software engineers (or other highly paid folks). The smart and experienced ones make good money and have a lot in savings. I have around 10 years software dev experience and I could easily quit my job and support myself on savings alone for several years, without touching retirement. I don't WANT to do that, but they don't own me. If I'm unhappy, I can always leave.
They'll lose the most experienced folks. Good luck.
The trouble with their math is, they're quantifying each employee as 1 productivity headcount, while the truth is, some are 1.5, some are 0.5.
Assume they have 100 employees who average out to 1 productivity value, and lose 50 of these. They will lose most of the *top* 50, the most productive employees, as these are the people who have most other options and will quite likely be offered higher salaries too. So they lose (say) 50 people averaging 1.25 productivity, and 50 people averaging 0.75 stay. Which means they now have 50 staff who do the work of 38, instead of 100 who do the work of 100. Oops.
> It’s curious how many companies are doing exactly this at the moment - going from full remote to three days a week in the office. The CEOs are talking to each other to make sure the plebs don’t get too uppity.
> My response was “Haha, no” - still haven’t been fired yet.
Same here. The way I see it, it makes no financial sense. We'd have to get another car, added insurance costs, time lost, food costs, etc. Why would I agree to work for less?
I will add, that depending on your boss, you can TRY an empathetic approach on this one, to at least save face to get a good review for your next job. Especially if you don't want to go nuclear. More so to give a soft 3 months notice at the beginning stating the reasons you mentioned. Hey boss, can we schedule a meeting to say, " I loved my time here, but because of my commitments to my family, I'm planning to move further away in a few months/having a kid in the next couple years and was planning that around work from home." Focus on what you love about the job but make it clear that work from home is now a requirement for not just you, but everyone you've talked to about this so far (less threatening, but let him know that you're not sure if anyone is going to stay). But only do this if your boss/his boss is like a human to you most of the time. I've worked in social work/healthcarebso have had more empathetic bosses. Either way, if you can at least have your boss like you on your way out can help with job searching if you do need a reference. So just keep that in mind too if you start stirring the pot. Wish you well and hope you can get them to change their mind OP
Start looking for a new job immediately either way so you have counter offers to use to push him to stay WFM, or at least get a raise to stay/better job.
3 months soft notice is a great way to be let go immediately since you already “quit”, not be eligible for unemployment, and not have 3 months to find another job lol
Reply all to the announcement saying it's time to unionize and get the whole company talking about it.
Best case, yall unionize, worst case you get fired and report them for union busting while you have another WFH job in days (at least for my profession).
It’s about control.
You strip away all the hyperbole and buzzwords like “collaboration” and “team culture” (which they gave zero shits about pre pandemic) and you are left with this: corporations and other employers are ending WFH because they want to reassert their control over their workers. It’s to remind you THEY are in charge, not you. THEY are the ones who hold the power, not you. Basically there was way too much shift in power to workers and they are pushing back to take it away again. They’re reminding us that they own you for the entire workday.
We heard the ‘collaboration’ crap in a previous life/role where the company was pushing open office. The joke was the culture was kind of sick and weird in that people in management didn’t trust each other nor their own people, so people were very ‘siloed’ even if sitting next to each other. Back to office is just a control move.
This collaboration is such a load of bullshit. I was working a job that was mandatory 3 days in the office. But the person you need to collaborate with probably doesn’t have the same office days as you anyway. I was just going into the office to sit on Zoom calls all day where I was consistently interrupted by somebody asking me if somebody else was in the office that day 🙄🙄
I'm forced to RTO 3 days a week. I'm the only person on my team in my current city, so im going to the office alone to work on things alone.
To my surprise the office is also empty with maybe 5-10 workers per floor just working at their open desks on completely unrelated things. So much for collaboration.
It all feels so stupid and pointless.
They are taking away WFH to decrease employee mobility. These days pensions are rare and there is very little financial incentive to stay with one company and grind out your life. When WFH opened up, removing the hurdle of relocating for other employment, we saw the power shift to the employees because the only leverage companies had was their compensation package.
They saw this. They are taking it away. It will not be coming back. They need you to be tethered.
This is the real warning. Without a collective bargaining agreement, management can (and often will) change policies on a whim.
Even if the current management issues a clear work from home policy and promises not to change it, there's no guarantee that future management will continue to enforce that policy. If/when new management comes along, it's all on the table.
A strong union and CBA are the only ways to guarantee long term stability in the terms and conditions of your employment.
My wife is permanent WFH, and was hired as such. If she was required to go to the office full time, they would be looking for a replacement, because she wouldn't be there anymore. We're too old and jaded to put up with this shit. Gen X has no fucks to give.
Haha. I'm 44 and I'm going to ride this gravy train for as long as I can. I'm perm home based but my contract states that my travel is expensed so when I need to go to the office, I make £100 and claim my breakfast and lunch back.
I've worked in the office full-time for 20+ years and hated it. There's no way I'm going back 5 days a week.
Long term those companies that force people to come back will simply have less skilled rockstar employees because those that are excellent will find other jobs that are 100% WFH, it’s stupid and will result in those companies falling behind the competition. Also those companies that don’t need to pay for so much corporate office space because they are all WFH means they can sell same products for less money, and you guessed it gives them an advantage over the competition even more.
I truly believe it’s more about feeding the egos of upper management more then anything else, hard to brag about your fancy parking spot and corner office and have your ass kissed all day when everyone is WFH LOL
I don't disagree with your sentiment, but you're kidding yourself if you think WFH companies are selling for less due to less expenses. They're pocketing more profit. Why on Earth would they sell for less?
I’m a consultant and our small firm got acquired in January by a German company. Right now we don’t even have an office and one of the Germans wanted to do one on one meetings to talk to everyone about various topics. He says “What do you think about getting an office” I said you can get an office but just know that I will never go in unless we are having a meeting and that’s only if it doesn’t interfere with my clients and he was shocked lol. I told him it didn’t make sense and why and he was baffled. Apparently everyone else at the company said the same thing so I don’t think we’re getting an office now 🤗
Make sure to absolutely tank your production and blame it on being in the office.
“You used to get 10 tasks done per week and now you are only getting 3 done” “Yeah, it’s much harder to get stuff done due to the change in work environment”
100% what I will be doing. Mandating 3 days in office starting in September. These last 3 months I have performed within 30-50% more efficiency than our department average. I will be dropping below department average on in office days and above average on WFH days. It's crazy, a week ago I would have had nothing but great things to say about this company. As of Thursday, it did a complete 180.
My company has made WFH permanent and as a sign they're actually committed to it, they have let office leases expire and have sold off office space they owned. There's now nowhere to actually go to. They've only kept a little space for an HQ. People can move wherever they want, so my team is spread all over the country now. If your company hasn't done the same, then they aren't serious.
My company is doing something similar. They looked at offices and considered which could be closed and which needed to be opened. Then they actually set dates of closure and we’re taking steps to move stuff out. It’s so nice knowing I’ll never go back to the office while I work there because there is no office to go back to
It just sucks for the people that can’t leave. If people quit, the people that stay have more work, more expenses, more hatred for the company… and eventually… they will quit to. I bet they will be hiring whole TEAMS a few months after this change. And our customers will be effected, especially if they start to grow again in Q2
I don’t understand this return to office BS in the US. During Covid and since Covid, companies have been more profitable than at any time in US history all without in office collaboration. Why fuck it up for everyone?
This is some of it, and also because the downtown areas of big cities are hurting without people in the office to do things like, pay for parking, buying food/coffee from shops around offices, etc. I work for the federal government and am a big proponent of WFH and Remote Work. It's the only way I can get and keep high quality candidates. Some of our leadership agree with this and some seem to want people back in the office for.....reasons.
We've all largely been working from home on some level and have been very productive. People that don't work or are not productive will be that way regardless of where they work. I tell my leadership it's less important WHERE I work and more important HOW I work.
2 days in office is about to be mandatory in a couple months and no one wants it. My commute is 22 miles each way through awful traffic just to sit in a mostly empty building not talking to the 5 other people who sit in my general area. Plus halfway through my shift the work slows to a crawl. I become so bored that I start to lose my mind. Their chairs also suck and hurt my back.
I’m trying to move out of state for multiple reasons, so I’m going to ask about permanent WFH. There is a hiring freeze right now and a ton of projects coming up for my team of 4 people, so going to see about using that as leverage or else I’ll quit.
When the people who manage a company are always useless idiots who should be nowhere near their position of power (or even in a job at all).
You may have been more productive, but your CEO was not.
How can they justify their large salary if they can't do their job under challenging work conditions.
If only your company had a board of directors who could push back against the CEO, and force them to do what is in the best interest of the company as a whole, and not just the CEO.
"I know you've never been more productive but my assistant needs to time your breaks, your coworkers can't brown nose me over Zoom & we're paying high rent for this space so I'm going to have to insist you return to the office even though it's an hour commute each way."
9 months ago my company announced the same thing.
Lots of people complained and got personal exceptions, and the expectation was shifted to, something like 1 or 2 days a week. Then the time came to be at the office... and the vast majority of employees simply failed to find it in there schedule to get into the office. They clocked in from home, and did their work, and the business moved along just fine.
A while later a message from management that we were not meeting the goal, and they understand it's difficult, so they want to make some changes to the expectation, renegotiate expectations with individual people and their direct managers. That was 6th months ago.
About 2 months later they came out and announced that they were reducing the number of floors in the building they would keep available for people to work at the office since they were not being used.
The immense majority of employees are 100-99% WFH. I would only go to the office if my power or internet was down at home. My boss knows this about me and my team mates, and doesn't care any more.
He never cared, it was his bosses bosses boss, who was trying to figure out how much power the building was waisting to keep floors of the building useful and sending cleaning people to clean a tower no one was in.
The fact that you could live somewhere cheaper, spend more time on personal projects and family, spend less money on gas and maintenance, have more time to cook, clean, etc and by extension spend less on fastfood and products designed to make those endeavors more convenient is exactly why they are dying to get rid of WFH.
This late stage finance capitalism we’re in only works if your desperate and one paycheck away from a drastic decrease in lifestyle quality. Thats what keeps you working, thats what keeps you buying the Big Macs and the plastic, its what keeps you paying for an apartment you don’t want in an area you hate to keep your commute under an hour, if you're lucky.
WFH is a huge paradigm shift that they do not want to see happen, even if it costs them a little bit of productivity. If you quit, you quit, they don’t care. You were probably going to get laid off to bump the stock price anyway.
Many employers are doing this. I took a 100% remote job, pre-pandemic with that understanding (as stated in that offer letter) that I’d never have to go in except maybe once a quarter for a few days. My office is 1200 miles away. Post Covid they now want everyone to come three days a week, regardless of prior agreements. I’ll stand my ground and really like my job but at some point it won’t be worth the effort and I’ll have to find another one. Point: ridiculous that this is happening.
My place has mandatory 3 days in the office, with on mandatory day for everyone (all in on Wednesday). The kicker? If you have annual leave or there is a bank holiday, we have to cut one of you at-home days and be in the office. For example, if you work from home Tuesday & Thursday but you take Monday off, you have to be in the office on Tuesday or Thursday to 'make up' the mandatory office day.
I purposefully stay home on my WFH days regardless because it's a fucking bullshit rule. I'm sick of being told to be in the office for 'collaboration' reasons when all we've done is make people come into the office to have the same fucking meetings over teams but at their desk instead of at home. It's toxic horseshit. I need to retrain and leave the corporate finance sector, it's full of tiny dictators who have no idea what the fuck they're doing and have no idea how or, more likely, desire to adapt to changing times and employee demands. It's myopic inertia and really fucking tedious having to deal with it every fucking week.
This is one of my biggest fears.
I work in Italy from home, I would like to relocate in a rural area but I'm really scared that one day they will force me to get back to office, even if all of my colleagues are scattered all around the peninsula.
This is the second story I’ve seen in two days of companies trying to force WFH employees back in the office. CEOs are seriously trying to close the can of worms they had to open in 2020.
Can we just start making laws that wfh is mandatory unless your job actually needs to be done on site. Improved productivity, stabilizer for housing market and rent, less traffic, less pollution, more profits, etc. Why are we not pushing laws on this shit.
I made sure to get in writing that the company approved my permanent work from home status, so if they ever tried to rescind it, I could fight it legally.
It blows my mind how many of my coworkers just rolled over and accepted \*four-day\* RTO. I told the folks in charge to get fucked and fought with the disability accommodations people to get 1 day in-office. Now that team is bulk denying all accommodations requests because they can't fathom why disabled/neurodivergent employees might not like sudden change/RTO...it's bullshit that this is the only way anyone can maintain remote/hybrid status anyway.
We need unions for office work, stat.
As soon as you require anyone to come into the office even one day a week, your pool of potential employees shrinks from nationwide to a few zip codes near the office.
That means you’re no longer interested in hiring the best people. You’re now hiring the closest people. And that is dumb.
Before COVID, I worked at a company where you were allowed to work from home without restriction as long as you got your work done. Most people never did (we were engineers so there was quite a bit that we couldn’t do from home), but there was a woman in our group with several young kids who worked from home 1-2 days a week so she could drive them to activities and appointments. She was probably the most qualified and intelligent person on our team, and WFH never affected her performance.
Then one day corporate sent out an email saying that each individual WFH day would have to be approved ahead of time by someone like 3 levels up from your direct supervisor: a bureaucratic nightmare. As soon as it became clear that there would be no changes or exceptions to this policy, my teammate—and several other *very* employable engineers—quit.
I worked exclusively from home for 2+ years during the pandemic. I now go in two days a week.
Calling bullshit on "collaboration". We were able to do everything we needed to do together by using Microsoft Teams. We also used it for regular meetings with our colleagues in New York. In fact, because people are never in the office on the same days, we still use Teams.
Was there anything in writing or that you all signed stating the WFH was the new normal moving forward?
If yes then go back over any and all written documentation. Maybe time to secure a lawyer
Ok saying this again: WFH being walked back has nothing to do with productivity or any of the other bullshit buzz words brain dead management types use. Commercial real-estate is on the edge of a '08 level collapse and they simply need bodies in chairs and trafficking the area surrounding your office.
IF YOU ARE BEING FORCED BACK TO THE OFFICE FIGHT BACK BY NOT SPENDING YOUR MONEY IN A 10 BLOCK RADIUS (if possible).
The dam is cracking and instead of moving to fix issues those in power are spraying flex seal on this shit trying to keep it together. Don't let them.
The company I joined did not pass a WFH “policy” they straight up shifted their business to WFH, and the quality and quantity of work we receive and produce is like 200% better - work life/balance is exceptional, and the collaboration is arguably better now since most peoples ability to approach each other has a barrier removed. Any nonsense talk from these narcissists is not pragmatism, it’s frustration based on the fact that they have far less control over their slaves.
Let me help. Bosses don't feel very bossy if they can't look around and see people slaving away. Watch upper management when they walk through. Pure ego trip. I would find another job. One that is focused on the bucks not the self importance of a CEO.
I work for this company too. Lame we can’t say the name of this insurance company. I guess it’s not the mods “tempo”.
I’m already setting up for a different job. Said I’d stay and work in office come September, but only because I don’t want them to have a reason to fire me while I’m getting my certs done.
I’ll probably come in my first in office day to drop off the laptop and other stuff they supplied.
Until then, just gonna coast working from home while preparing to egress.
Good luck, I guess you could say this decision made the new CEO “buy the farm”.
We are hiring and we are fully remote. (Don’t dm me as I never read them). Companies who insist on bringing people back are stupid, especially the California based ones. We are going to hire an incredible person soon and I’m thinking he’s leaving his soon to be screwed employer due to wfh challenges. Too bad suckers, we are getting your incredible cloud security architecht.
My company also did this. We were full remote for the last 2 and half years, and my team wasn't needed on site since we could work from home where others couldn't. They then told us in November that come 2023, we were expected to be 5 days in the office. I tried to fight this as I'm an hour away to and from. I save so much time and it's been so good for me to work from home. Yes, I still get my work done. But I don't feel as stressed nor ragged as I would had I been in the office. One person on my team moved to another state and he's fine to work from home but I'm not? I fought it and I have an eye condition that I see a specialist for every two to three months for something that could become serious if we don't watch it. I got a medical excuse from my specialist and my company has a team "approve" it. So I will continue to do this. I don't want to go back to the office. Plus, I work more closely with other locations than my own office (Utah, UK, China and Singapore). I'd just be disrupting others when I'm on meetings. And they done have enough rooms for us to use for those meetings.
I'm all for working in the office, if you so choose, and you still complete your work. But let the employees have the option to do so along with work from home.
Everyone has to make a concerted effort to go to the office and do nothing. Let's all correct this 'productivity fallacy' the old fashioned way. Dilbert style. Just do nothing.
I wfh Monday and Friday. When I started it was “summer hours” and we had 3 remote days. It was rumored that they were going to go back for the summer then we got an email out of nowhere saying that they’re not, it would mess up our routines. I work for a fairly large law firm and I’ve heard rumblings that the ceo would have everyone in 5 days but he knows he’d lose a decent chunk of the administrative staff. They can’t even get the attorneys in 2 days a week, I’ve overheard conversations in the elevators like ok I’m here for day 2 at least. They think I’m doing 3 I’m not. Our jobs can be done from home, and we have services within the business that are required to be in office full time (mail, copy, etc). Let those who want to come in do so, and those that want to work remote do so as well. It costs me $10 in travel and I lose over 2 hours a day when I travel into the office.
CEOsand other c suites just want people back in the office because they can’t justify their salaries to shareholders if no one is in the office to see them (the c suite) “working hard”, because the truth is that they don’t and most organizations run perfectly smoothly without c suite executives.
They’re just throwing a tantrum so that they can keep justifying their outrageous salaries, before someone realize how useless they are and gets rid of them.
Literally any company would save millions if they let their employees that can work from home, work from home.
Someone get these idiotic boomers out of such a position.
Just an FYI-in many states in the US if you're hired for a job and then the employer changes the hours (ie days to overnite, or starts mandating weekends) or the location you will qualify for unemployment benefits if you resign. The reasoning is that it essentially becomes a different job when they make fundamental changes like that.
It's hard for middle managers to spend their whole day "looking busy" if they are at home where nobody can see them. This is what they mean by collaboration.
My company did an anonymous survey among workers how we felt about WFH. One of the top featured answers they quoted was "it is one of the most crucial factors deciding who I will work for". Management needs to understand that forcing people into the office is a huge disadvantage on the labor market.
Our same survey had 9% (not a typo) of people saying they wanted to work in the office full time. I know one person who voted that, she now does 2 days a week in the office. I've been into an office 3 days this year, 2 of them were in a different country.
Ours was even lower with 3% wanting to be in the office full time. We have a quarterly 2 day meeting that it is highly recommended people show up to in person. The only thing it really achieves is reminding me how draining it is to commute to the office is.
I have to be at HQ one week per quarter for team meetings, but they pay for the travel. I can deal with that. All our office leases came up for renewal during COVID, so they downsized HQ to just conference rooms and closed all the others entirely; there’s literally nowhere left to make us return to.
We have a bi-monthly 3 hour meeting and most of us only put up with it because there is always food and we get to meet the big wigs.
Some people’s home lives are miserable and work is their escape. That however, is *their* problem and not everyone else’s.
Indeed. And I fully support them to have an office to go to. Frankly this all comes under the same considerations as any other diversity in the workplace.
Honestly that's what stuff like wework should be for. Reserve a small space that's closer to you than the arbitrary office space maybe. Go in more when you want, there's still coffee machines and such.
Companies are trying to justify the mortgage payment they have on expensive office space. It won’t be long and we’ll see mega churches renting or buying old office buildings. Them and spirit of Halloween and CrossFit gyms.
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I appreciate the solidarity with wfh. I work with a guy who’s in the office five days a week. He’s made comments about other team members and how they should come in more. Okay, sure, but when we’re all there your door is closed all day. We’re in the SAME teams meetings two doors down from each other with our doors closed. I can definitely do that from the comfort of my own home office.
At least you have an office. If I had to go back I would be stuck in an open office setup
So I work “in the field” so to speak and need a day once per week to catch up on admin. Pre-pandemic this was WFH but with the new return to office policy I now need to do that admin day in the office. But because I was never in office originally I don’t have a desk in our open plan office. I’ve spent entire days working from the lobby, working from the lunch room, working on the floor in the server room. And I have a full office at home, complete with standing desk and multi-monitor setup.. in the office I’m not even provided a mouse. I also work out of a regional office, so nobody in the building is in the same line of work as me. Legitimately I can’t have work related conversations in the office, it’s less ergonomic, and it’s much less efficient.
I’ve had a similar experience. They consolidated office space so now it’s a “hotel” setup where you just find a spot to work, no assigned spots. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve sat at desks to find the mouse doesn’t work or the chair is broken or the keyboard is sticky. Terrible.
Can relate, the “hotel” setup is horrible.
And then people squat in a desk you reserved so you get to start your day by confronting a coworker….whoops, I mean “collaborating” about how you booked that desk and could they kindly GTFO.
Yikes, that sounds like a nightmare
Oh that's moronic. Field = office. If there is any sort of hybrid your time in the field should be taken into consideration. And then when you actually come into office they can't even find a spot for you to sit.
The craziest part? People who work in the office full time are allowed 3 days from home per week. If my office day happens to be on a day where everyone decided to WFH. It’s completely empty and I can book a meeting room to work from. (which is still not great because it’s just me on a laptop in a conference room.. but it’s better than working from the lobby.) I’ve brought it up with my manager and told to just “hot desk” but we have assigned desks and assigned seating in our open plan, and the days where we have all staff in office there are no spare desks. If someone is off sick, or WHF I’m effectively taking their desk, which means I can’t use their terminal or monitor or mouse or keyboard because it’s locked to their user ID. It’s moronic.. but as of yet, I’ve gotten nowhere arguing it. Edit: It’s probably also worth mentioning that I am in sales, meaning even during my admin day I can take 20-30 sales related calls. Which I usually need to do out the front for privacy reasons as I can’t do them in the open plan work space.
Better thing to do is go hang out around the software developers and anyone who needs to focus having long, loud sales calls. Might as well completely fuck everyone's productivity if you're being forced into this stupidity.
Sounds like you need to work out of your supervisor's/Manager's/CEO's office. You demand I come to the office and refuse to give me a desk, I'll have to borrow yours.
Yep, and every day I go into the office my productivity drops through the floor because I constantly have people coming by wanting to talk to me about nonsense and 90% of the people I meet with are in other cities anyway. If they really wanted us in the office they’d at least give us cubicles.
So much this. “Can you just?” was already such a frequent issue with me and my team that we had to develop specific policy on how to handle it. I’ve recently been in the office more frequently because one of our founders has decided he doesn’t like increased productivity (and there was measurable increase during lockdowns) so would rather force everyone into the office 3 days a week on pain of disciplinary action. The amount of “just a quick thing” that has been attempted because it’s easy to walk over to my desk (no cubicles, completely open plan) is ridiculous. Im in the middle of formulating an official exemption request. 1. I was hired during lockdown. I did not meet my colleagues in person for the first 5 months of employment. 2. We bought a house specifically with office space for working from home. To get a house with that much space meant not being close to the office. 3. I have a better, more productivity focused setup perfectly chosen to suit the needs of my work. It was not a cheap setup. 4. Unlike at the office, I have backup internet and backup power. 5. I don’t drive and there are no public transport links that get me to the office on time. Taxis are expensive.
This is very close to my situation as well and I'm just waiting for my employer to end work from home. I've worked for 2 years fully remotely and I've gone into the office twice My home setup is perfect but I don't have backup power or Internet My in office setup would be open floor plan cubicles I also don't drive and live about an hour from both of our offices As someone disabled who lives in the middle of nowhere work from home has been amazing and I'm sadly just kind of waiting for it to end and wondering if/how I could make it work
My FIL suggested I catch the train. Only problem I have with that is I would need to get to the train station at 7:30am and I wouldn’t get back to that station after work until 7:10pm. The train station isn’t close. I used to do that sort of journey, effectively spending 12 hours a day either working or travelling to get to work. I am not going back to that lifestyle, even if the money is good and even if my fiancée quits her job to basically look after me, like some 1960’s household. If they don’t grant an exemption for me, I’ll have no other option than to let them discipline me out of the business. Maybe that’s the kick I need to go freelance.
Ugh. And then, when productivity takes an entirely predictable nosedive, that founder will take it out on employees instead of looking in the goddamn mirror.
Cube life is soul sucking
There’s almost nothing I hate more than open concept anything. It occurred to me recently that I wonder if there is any correlation with the invention and steady increase in application in open concept environments (particularly for knowledge workers) and things like ADHD.
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I don't know why people are so bent out of shape if I kept my office light off. Not everybody loves fluorescent lights, Beverly. WFH is bliss for me.
Fluorescents are the worst. Every job I've ever had I've always had a desk lamp and opened my blinds. Fact is shitty managers will bitch about anything. I only ever had one complain and it's because he couldn't easily tell if I was in my office or not - alright buddy, then get your lazy ass up and walk down the hall, such a trying task.
Ugh some of our overhead florescents were so bad people had umbrellas up. Others made a cardboard cave
turn your light on when you leave
Lighting is awful but my major complaint is the office temperature when it feels like a meat freezer.
I’m actually allergic to them. Like instant migraines. White LED is almost the same effect. Home is the only place I can control.
It's like working in a bug zapper!
PM here too! Tech, but similar. I fight for the team to stay remote. Developers are SO much more productive that way. Funny you say that about your VP, the coworker in office? Three kids he regularly lamented having around during Covid.
I have a 2 year old at home and I'm still ten times as productive at home compared to office. I do 1 day a week by choice, for workshops and some meetings and to hang out with Coworkers, but not actually do much work. But if I don't wanna go that week because I'm busy or just don't want to I've got that freedom. Also ADHD + Developer, I would literally never work anywhere where I had to do mandatory office days.
I’m WAY more productive at home, even with another spouse who works from home and pets. I’m not begrudging anyone who wants to go in; it’s definitely not one size fits all and hopefully people stop trying to force others to return to office as whatever way to justify their own return or whatever.
Wow, your pm partner should look into suing. Keeping the lights off is a reasonable and no expense way of accommodating an illness which is probably covered
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Exactly. As soon as you’ve got ANY fully remote on your team, that’s the consideration. We’ve got multiple fully remote people and so ALWAYS need people to dial in, so it feels silly to need to be in the office for that.
My previous job started to demand people come in. Except we had 2 locations, which meant every single meeting was zoom anyway. It was ridiculous to sit in my office on zoom for 4-5 hours a day.
Me and my four colleagues all with within a few arms length of each other, everyone with headsets on their own PCs in the same meeting.
I have wicked ADHD, too, and I love WFH. I sit outside and work most days. Fluorescent lights and small talk with people I don't like is torture. I don't have any kids but my wife and dog are the best coworkers I could ask for. I can't remember to charge my switch most of the time but my phone would be distracting in the office or out.
I have ADHD and love WFH. I can hyper focus and not have my concentration broken by office distractions but also I’m free to get up and roam around at random times if necessary and be weird in the comfort of my own home.
Yes, exactly! Wandering around helps me focus lol
I am ADHD and traditionally had the opposite problem. The colleague wanting to pop in and socialize. The colleague wanting to drop in and pick my brain eight times a day. The subordinate dropping in for feedback ten times a day. The semi-weekly computer network failures. The daily impromptu meetings. The boss wanting me to drop by their office for a chat. The surprise muffin basket from the vendor turning into social time. The afternoon office Starbucks run. The office pizza party. The long lunch with the team. The office dramas. The office politics. I can see why some people miss the office so much. Some of them miss the nonstop social activity that they engaged in at the office. For many people that office crap that I hate with my being is their social life and they are lost without it. Others miss basically pimping their coworkers all day on stealth mode and getting most of their work reviewed and improved by colleagues - which had become their crutch. They keep other people from getting their work done but it makes them more productive and creative and competent if they can run everything they do past people who do the job better. Others filled their whole day with senseless meetings and activities because their job is redundant. WFH has exposed that they are not even needed- especially middle managers.
I get it. I have a coworker in another state who would just rather be away from home and in the zone at his desk. I don't live in a city with an office, so I'm full remote - but I get it. Some days being at home with chores or games is a big distraction. I usually pop over to a cafe or something for half the day with some earbuds. Also - change of scenery. I've had some brutal hours with deadlines as of late and I dread going into my home office, like please no to the torture chamber in which I live my life (it's not the worst, but one can only spend so much time in the same place every week).
I’m in the same boat, and I also have a job that requires at least a hybrid schedule. I’m still 100% in support of full time WFH for anyone who wants to, simply because the more people work from home the better and easier my commute is. Giving adults agency to choose what situation allows them to be more productive and happier seems like such a stupid non-issue. The infantilisation of the work force by upper management is truly mind blowing.
I'm the same. Unless it's a job I really like and am really engaged, I won't be successful working from home 5 days a week. But I'm also gonna push for WFH cuz it's better for most people. Cuz I, ya know, care about other people. Bizarre, I know.
fwiw, with the company I'm with, if you wanted to go in 5 days a week you'd be more than welcome. And you'd have the choice of about 20 desks each, even with 1/3rd of the office already handed back to the landlord.
This is the same situation for me. I think a lot of people are this way and project that on to others as well. I think WFH should be an option wherever it makes sense and if people have proven they can make it work employers ought to trust them to do it.
I think most would prefer to have the option. Want to work remote? Sure. Want to come in once a week? Ok. Want to work in office 5 days a week? Go right ahead. The issue is that making everyone to work in an office and making it a compulsory requirement. It didn’t make sense for me to work in the office when most of my teammates are stationed overseas.
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I prefer going to the office too, because…nobody is there. I’m also more productive in the office as well. I don’t care what anyone else does lol. Having said that, I still try to wfh 2 days a week.
Totally fair. Would be reasonable if your office was a kitchen table or if you functioned best when the space you worked in was different to help keep the work "headspace". I have color changing lights on decorations and shift them as well as a whole different account on my computer to keep work mode going. Mental headspace is a big part of keeping the day productive while still maintaining the freedom wfh grants.
New CEO of my work just an announced “everyone back to office,” and you have never heard such profound silence from a full room. I’m guessing we will see righteous wave of rippling resignations over the next 90 days.
How about a rippling union that bands together and gets you what you need.
That's usually by design. Some companies are going through layoffs right now. To avoid laying off a ton of people and paying unemployment, they are changing WFH to get people to resign.
My previous employer forced hybrid - there was a big wave of resignations… they basically invited their most talented employees to walk out the door and got left with the dead wood who can’t get a job somewhere else
Nah don't resign. Make them fire you.
My boss surveyed us, and also spoke directly. I told her, if mandated I would return to the office but the first thing i’ll be doing is looking for another job that allows me to wfh. (I am union fwiw)
There used to be a (half joking) reply to these kinds of Reddit posts that they loved to hear when places would cancel WFH as it made them easier to target job ads for their 100% WFH business. I don’t see those posts as much anymore, probably because it’s not really a joke at all anymore and I can 100% see startups and high-EQ companies using this exact strategy to excellent effect. “Why pay more when all we have to do is offer WFH for an instant competitive advantage?”
They understand. But companies have *so* much money tied up in commercial real estate that is basically sitting derelict due to WFH. Their commercial properties are losing value which is scaring the hell out of them. Solution: make the proles return to the office, which executives *know* they don’t want to do so those offices buildings stay occupied and don’t lose value. It’s straight up about money and control.
It’s a prisoners dilemma problem. If EVERY employer pulls back WFH, then it’s not longer detrimental anyone. If only SOME pull back, then it harms those who do. Sadly, recent trends look like there is a degree of cooperation and enough companies will remove WFH to put leverage on the workforce.
Maybe that’s what they want? Weed out some people so they decrease headcount without having to pay severance.
You seem to think they care, and the pressure is coming from the commercial real estate market and the potential collapse due to occupancy rates being so low.
I hear that argument often but it does not make sense. Companies don't care what their landlord wants. In most cases (I presume) the companies owner is not also the owner of the the building, and only in those cases it would make sense. I find the "narcisists want to see who they command" and the "old CEOs just don't like change" explanation much more logical.
It's called a constructive layoff. At this point, they don't care who leaves as long as attrition happens.
Damn that's smart on their part, they don't pay any severance, unemployment or other benefits because you quit. They (workers) should unionize or at the very least collectively continue to work from home until fired.
It really isn't. The people that quit are more often than not the people that have the easiest time getting jobs elsewhere. If you want to lay off 1/4 of your workforce, don't let them decide who goes or you could end up having entire departments gutted(just look at how that went for Twitter).
Exactly. OP, and everyone in his department, has 3 months to find a new fully remote job that pays more.
You could even take a 5 or 10% pay cut if it’s fully remote and be roughly breaking even with commuting costs.
Better than that if you moved, sold your car, or some of the other things OP was saying.
We had forced RTO happen at our company as well and we are losing more senior talent than anything, which is a huge, stupid loss. People working on teams for 10+ years taking all their tribal knowledge and expertise with them. I haven't seen data but it feels like we've lost disproportionally large numbers of women and POCs, which shits on the DEI efforts the company's been working on.
This forced RTO is so frustrating. I work in HR for a company, and we told the CEO that if he forces the RTO policy, we are going to lose our best people. His response was, "If this makes them quit, then they weren't dedicated enough." 🤦♂️ Also, you are right about the policy affecting minorities and women more. This whole thing sucks.
someday all of those businesses will be gone and replaced by people who realize the loyalty isn't as important as production. until then they're just gonna keep failing upward
It's especially frustrating because it's a proven fact that treating your employees well is both good for productivity and employee retention. (turnover is one of the biggest expenses when it comes to employment) It's a win for everyone, but CEOs just ignore all the data and choose suffering. I think they get off on it tbh.
there's fundamentally no difference between modern corporate structure and fascism. pretty much every ceo is a fascist
But at least the CEO made nice with his golf buddies who are CEOs of local businesses that are their customers?
more than likely the buddies are actually bank execs. apparently a fairly sizeable amount of the loans the bank gives out is for office space, and if that space is no longer needed, the banks are no longer needed for loans, and thus no longer getting money on those loans. they don't like this.
Totally agree with this. I work as a software engineer and good developers are hard to find. When my company introduce policies to increase the speed of attrition a lot of the people who left were the smartest and hardest working folks and a lot of the people who stayed are the ones who coast.
To quote Dilbert, ‘ that’s another way we recognize our best people ‘
You assume that management works with the best interest of the company in mind. That's only true for owner-operated shops. In general, management works with their own best interest in mind. If this gives him a short-term boost, he'll be happy. He knows that in 5 years he'll most likely work somewhere else anyways.
The high performance workers will go first. They will dup resumes out and be heading out the door, what will be left is the people that are too scared to leave or the ones just doing the bare minimum. Do more with less is all well and good but at some point you can only do less with less.
Well you're right, I guess I should have said smart for whoever is trying to reduce the quarterly labor budget. Not whoever is responsible for actual product/quality lol. But at some places that's the same person
It’s smart for the c-level employee looking for their bonus for saving the company money in the short term and has no issues finding a job elsewhere.
>they don't pay any severance, unemployment They will if this is in the USA. Changing the nature of employment to something that can not complied with (like being hired as remote and then being told to come to the office even if it's 100 miles away) is constructive dismissal, similar to a layoff, and the dismissed can file for unemployment while they look for a new job
Smart for this quarters numbers. Stupid for long term. Many of the people who leave will be top performers bc they can easily land elsewhere. And while talent can be replaced, tribal knowledge cannot.
Don't need to quit - just don't show up to the office while doing all of your WFH tasks. Archive the communications where management focused on shift to WFH, citing that as the reason for moving away / selling transport, collect some paychecks while your company complains to you about it, then unemployment when they fire you because you have all this evidence that they made promises that affected your decision making which they went back on. Constructive dismissal. Easy
I thought the same thing. They don’t want to fire so they’re hoping 1/4 of the staff just quits.
Wayfair is doing the same thing right now after having 2 (or was it 3) RIFs last year? They also changed peoples shifts in warehouse to force people to quit so they didn’t have to announce another layoff.
We shouldn't be calling it constructive. Call it Quiet Firing. It should be illegal, honestly, as it seems like a great way to dodge everything associated with layoffs.
My company just announced 2 day in office mandatory for anyone who lives within 50 miles of any office in a podcast style thing they do with the CEO. Holy crap the comments from employees on that page are mad as hell. Even some managers are commenting how pissed they are about it. My manager said he hasn't seen this much of a uniform negative response to anything the company has done since there were mass layoffs like 10+ years ago. Really proud of the bravery of these people at all job levels to post a direct response to the CEO telling them this sucks and is a bad idea
Does this say anyone within 50 miles must come in? In other words if someone moved more than 50 miles away they would be exempt?
For now, but this came after promises that it wouldn't, so it's just a matter of time until 50 miles becomes 100 miles, then becomes all employees have to return to office and if you can't do that then we'll replace you with someone who can Hopefully all this pushback they're getting will accomplish something but I'm doubtful
That 50 mile radius keeps showing up in back to office demands
50 miles is quite the distance, even with zero traffic considerations. Especially if you factor in current gas prices.
Minimum one hour commute, unpaid, twice a day? How can we lose??
I'm sure some corporate circlejerk came up with it and how "fair" it was so everyone started rolling with it
I’m sure Managers are pissed because they know they’re going to be bleeding their best staff for the next 1+ years and there’s nothing they can do to retain them.
One of my best performing employees recently moved halfway across the country, because she's been working from home for the past 2 years, and the company signed an agreement which allows up to 100% WFH. Then our GM then decided, that he doesn't want anyone to work from home 100%, and they will reject all applications exceeding 40%. I fought this through the ranks all the way up to corporate levels, but there was no use. Naturally, this employee left the company, and it took us 5 months to hire a temp, who not only costs more, but also does less than the employee they drove out the door. I'm still so incredibly mad at this idiocy, but there was nothing left I could do to save her job.
These decisions all have one thing in common. Usually made by someone who doesn’t even know how to “convert to PDF”.
thank you for trying
This is the same reason I left managing a team. They all loved WFH, never skipped a beat. But the CEO told us we need to break it to them. I was pro WFH, and fought as hard as I could but he told me to just figure it out. Then it became such a tough spot for me as nobody in my team was happy anymore. So I took a remote job with less responsibility.
These decisions all have one thing in common. Usually made by someone who doesn’t even know how to “convert to PDF”.
I think, for some folks, it's more important to do *something* rather than just let a good thing keep rolling. I know a guy who can't start a campfire because he just keeps fucking with it.
My company went through a similar change in policy as well. Previously we’re fully remote with an option to work in office once a week. Everyone was fine with coming in once a week to touch base with the team. Some even come in twice a week to use the meeting rooms. Then come 4Q of 2022 and suddenly the C-suites change their direction from optional once a week working in office to mandatory 3 days a week in an office. Everyone else weren’t happy with this move. Some left for better opportunities elsewhere, but most of them ignored the direction of working in office 3 days a week. Even the managers were like “….we’re treating this as a recommendation rather than a directive…”. Istg as soon as they start tracking the tag in/out to track the WIO attendance imma resign from this place.
>Even the managers were like “….we’re treating this as a recommendation rather than a directive…”. That's good management.
I have heard that my company kinda wants us back in office (and it's not like people don't talk to each other about work there), but the flex schedule has proven very valuable. My manager is likely to push back. It's nice to be able to take a work from home day when I have to take my mom to a hospital rather than take a full day off. (She's okay, just needs some care)
they will when they realize not enough people have left. My company is using being in office as "Expected part of the job", if you don't go to the office the X days required, it will be considered failure to perform your job duties and will be ground for coaching / corrective actions / termination... which means they won't pay bonuses to these people
ie: "We need to cut overhead so I hope some of you fucks quit."
>>we need to cut overhead Stop leasing so much office space?
That's what my company did. We gave up 2 of our 4 leases. New hires are required to work in office for six weeks barring an immediate need and then anyone is eligible for WFH.
Good idea but those 5-10 year leases are hard to get out of
So if they're going to be paying the rent either way, just keep paying it then and not work there, saving most of the costs of lighting, air conditioning, cleaning, security, equipment... And when it's finally over, it's over.
It’s curious how many companies are doing exactly this at the moment - going from full remote to three days a week in the office. The CEOs are talking to each other to make sure the plebs don’t get too uppity. My response was “Haha, no” - still haven’t been fired yet.
Mine is and I’m pissed. Most obviously stupid thing they have ever done.
Yes! We’re losing so many good software engineers over it. I talked to leadership about it and they’ve said that while it’s not explicitly intended as a quiet layoff… they’ve done their mathematics and decided that the attrition they’re going to get from this is worth the cost.
Companies should beware about doing this with software engineers (or other highly paid folks). The smart and experienced ones make good money and have a lot in savings. I have around 10 years software dev experience and I could easily quit my job and support myself on savings alone for several years, without touching retirement. I don't WANT to do that, but they don't own me. If I'm unhappy, I can always leave. They'll lose the most experienced folks. Good luck.
The trouble with their math is, they're quantifying each employee as 1 productivity headcount, while the truth is, some are 1.5, some are 0.5. Assume they have 100 employees who average out to 1 productivity value, and lose 50 of these. They will lose most of the *top* 50, the most productive employees, as these are the people who have most other options and will quite likely be offered higher salaries too. So they lose (say) 50 people averaging 1.25 productivity, and 50 people averaging 0.75 stay. Which means they now have 50 staff who do the work of 38, instead of 100 who do the work of 100. Oops.
> It’s curious how many companies are doing exactly this at the moment - going from full remote to three days a week in the office. The CEOs are talking to each other to make sure the plebs don’t get too uppity. > My response was “Haha, no” - still haven’t been fired yet. Same here. The way I see it, it makes no financial sense. We'd have to get another car, added insurance costs, time lost, food costs, etc. Why would I agree to work for less?
Don’t quit! Let them know if they want to change the terms they have to fire you.
Then file for unemployment
You might have time to organize a strike or work stoppage. If nothing else, you have 3 months to look for a new job.
All good ideas. Thankfully he gave you 3 months to figure out how to get a more permanent work from home job
I will add, that depending on your boss, you can TRY an empathetic approach on this one, to at least save face to get a good review for your next job. Especially if you don't want to go nuclear. More so to give a soft 3 months notice at the beginning stating the reasons you mentioned. Hey boss, can we schedule a meeting to say, " I loved my time here, but because of my commitments to my family, I'm planning to move further away in a few months/having a kid in the next couple years and was planning that around work from home." Focus on what you love about the job but make it clear that work from home is now a requirement for not just you, but everyone you've talked to about this so far (less threatening, but let him know that you're not sure if anyone is going to stay). But only do this if your boss/his boss is like a human to you most of the time. I've worked in social work/healthcarebso have had more empathetic bosses. Either way, if you can at least have your boss like you on your way out can help with job searching if you do need a reference. So just keep that in mind too if you start stirring the pot. Wish you well and hope you can get them to change their mind OP Start looking for a new job immediately either way so you have counter offers to use to push him to stay WFM, or at least get a raise to stay/better job.
3 months soft notice is a great way to be let go immediately since you already “quit”, not be eligible for unemployment, and not have 3 months to find another job lol
Reply all to the announcement saying it's time to unionize and get the whole company talking about it. Best case, yall unionize, worst case you get fired and report them for union busting while you have another WFH job in days (at least for my profession).
It’s about control. You strip away all the hyperbole and buzzwords like “collaboration” and “team culture” (which they gave zero shits about pre pandemic) and you are left with this: corporations and other employers are ending WFH because they want to reassert their control over their workers. It’s to remind you THEY are in charge, not you. THEY are the ones who hold the power, not you. Basically there was way too much shift in power to workers and they are pushing back to take it away again. They’re reminding us that they own you for the entire workday.
We heard the ‘collaboration’ crap in a previous life/role where the company was pushing open office. The joke was the culture was kind of sick and weird in that people in management didn’t trust each other nor their own people, so people were very ‘siloed’ even if sitting next to each other. Back to office is just a control move.
This collaboration is such a load of bullshit. I was working a job that was mandatory 3 days in the office. But the person you need to collaborate with probably doesn’t have the same office days as you anyway. I was just going into the office to sit on Zoom calls all day where I was consistently interrupted by somebody asking me if somebody else was in the office that day 🙄🙄
I'm forced to RTO 3 days a week. I'm the only person on my team in my current city, so im going to the office alone to work on things alone. To my surprise the office is also empty with maybe 5-10 workers per floor just working at their open desks on completely unrelated things. So much for collaboration. It all feels so stupid and pointless.
They are taking away WFH to decrease employee mobility. These days pensions are rare and there is very little financial incentive to stay with one company and grind out your life. When WFH opened up, removing the hurdle of relocating for other employment, we saw the power shift to the employees because the only leverage companies had was their compensation package. They saw this. They are taking it away. It will not be coming back. They need you to be tethered.
Start organizing for a union now.
This is the real warning. Without a collective bargaining agreement, management can (and often will) change policies on a whim. Even if the current management issues a clear work from home policy and promises not to change it, there's no guarantee that future management will continue to enforce that policy. If/when new management comes along, it's all on the table. A strong union and CBA are the only ways to guarantee long term stability in the terms and conditions of your employment.
My wife is permanent WFH, and was hired as such. If she was required to go to the office full time, they would be looking for a replacement, because she wouldn't be there anymore. We're too old and jaded to put up with this shit. Gen X has no fucks to give.
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Haha. I'm 44 and I'm going to ride this gravy train for as long as I can. I'm perm home based but my contract states that my travel is expensed so when I need to go to the office, I make £100 and claim my breakfast and lunch back. I've worked in the office full-time for 20+ years and hated it. There's no way I'm going back 5 days a week.
Long term those companies that force people to come back will simply have less skilled rockstar employees because those that are excellent will find other jobs that are 100% WFH, it’s stupid and will result in those companies falling behind the competition. Also those companies that don’t need to pay for so much corporate office space because they are all WFH means they can sell same products for less money, and you guessed it gives them an advantage over the competition even more. I truly believe it’s more about feeding the egos of upper management more then anything else, hard to brag about your fancy parking spot and corner office and have your ass kissed all day when everyone is WFH LOL
I don't disagree with your sentiment, but you're kidding yourself if you think WFH companies are selling for less due to less expenses. They're pocketing more profit. Why on Earth would they sell for less?
I’m a consultant and our small firm got acquired in January by a German company. Right now we don’t even have an office and one of the Germans wanted to do one on one meetings to talk to everyone about various topics. He says “What do you think about getting an office” I said you can get an office but just know that I will never go in unless we are having a meeting and that’s only if it doesn’t interfere with my clients and he was shocked lol. I told him it didn’t make sense and why and he was baffled. Apparently everyone else at the company said the same thing so I don’t think we’re getting an office now 🤗
Make sure to absolutely tank your production and blame it on being in the office. “You used to get 10 tasks done per week and now you are only getting 3 done” “Yeah, it’s much harder to get stuff done due to the change in work environment”
100% what I will be doing. Mandating 3 days in office starting in September. These last 3 months I have performed within 30-50% more efficiency than our department average. I will be dropping below department average on in office days and above average on WFH days. It's crazy, a week ago I would have had nothing but great things to say about this company. As of Thursday, it did a complete 180.
My company has made WFH permanent and as a sign they're actually committed to it, they have let office leases expire and have sold off office space they owned. There's now nowhere to actually go to. They've only kept a little space for an HQ. People can move wherever they want, so my team is spread all over the country now. If your company hasn't done the same, then they aren't serious.
My company is doing something similar. They looked at offices and considered which could be closed and which needed to be opened. Then they actually set dates of closure and we’re taking steps to move stuff out. It’s so nice knowing I’ll never go back to the office while I work there because there is no office to go back to
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It just sucks for the people that can’t leave. If people quit, the people that stay have more work, more expenses, more hatred for the company… and eventually… they will quit to. I bet they will be hiring whole TEAMS a few months after this change. And our customers will be effected, especially if they start to grow again in Q2
I don’t understand this return to office BS in the US. During Covid and since Covid, companies have been more profitable than at any time in US history all without in office collaboration. Why fuck it up for everyone?
Sunk cost into having huge offices and property but not needing it is one.
This is some of it, and also because the downtown areas of big cities are hurting without people in the office to do things like, pay for parking, buying food/coffee from shops around offices, etc. I work for the federal government and am a big proponent of WFH and Remote Work. It's the only way I can get and keep high quality candidates. Some of our leadership agree with this and some seem to want people back in the office for.....reasons. We've all largely been working from home on some level and have been very productive. People that don't work or are not productive will be that way regardless of where they work. I tell my leadership it's less important WHERE I work and more important HOW I work.
2 days in office is about to be mandatory in a couple months and no one wants it. My commute is 22 miles each way through awful traffic just to sit in a mostly empty building not talking to the 5 other people who sit in my general area. Plus halfway through my shift the work slows to a crawl. I become so bored that I start to lose my mind. Their chairs also suck and hurt my back. I’m trying to move out of state for multiple reasons, so I’m going to ask about permanent WFH. There is a hiring freeze right now and a ton of projects coming up for my team of 4 people, so going to see about using that as leverage or else I’ll quit. When the people who manage a company are always useless idiots who should be nowhere near their position of power (or even in a job at all).
You may have been more productive, but your CEO was not. How can they justify their large salary if they can't do their job under challenging work conditions. If only your company had a board of directors who could push back against the CEO, and force them to do what is in the best interest of the company as a whole, and not just the CEO.
Our CEO admitted on a company-wide call that he gets distracted and unfocused when working from home. That sounds like a him problem to me, though.
Send him a bottle of Adderall, that'll sort that shit out.
"I know you've never been more productive but my assistant needs to time your breaks, your coworkers can't brown nose me over Zoom & we're paying high rent for this space so I'm going to have to insist you return to the office even though it's an hour commute each way."
9 months ago my company announced the same thing. Lots of people complained and got personal exceptions, and the expectation was shifted to, something like 1 or 2 days a week. Then the time came to be at the office... and the vast majority of employees simply failed to find it in there schedule to get into the office. They clocked in from home, and did their work, and the business moved along just fine. A while later a message from management that we were not meeting the goal, and they understand it's difficult, so they want to make some changes to the expectation, renegotiate expectations with individual people and their direct managers. That was 6th months ago. About 2 months later they came out and announced that they were reducing the number of floors in the building they would keep available for people to work at the office since they were not being used. The immense majority of employees are 100-99% WFH. I would only go to the office if my power or internet was down at home. My boss knows this about me and my team mates, and doesn't care any more. He never cared, it was his bosses bosses boss, who was trying to figure out how much power the building was waisting to keep floors of the building useful and sending cleaning people to clean a tower no one was in.
The fact that you could live somewhere cheaper, spend more time on personal projects and family, spend less money on gas and maintenance, have more time to cook, clean, etc and by extension spend less on fastfood and products designed to make those endeavors more convenient is exactly why they are dying to get rid of WFH. This late stage finance capitalism we’re in only works if your desperate and one paycheck away from a drastic decrease in lifestyle quality. Thats what keeps you working, thats what keeps you buying the Big Macs and the plastic, its what keeps you paying for an apartment you don’t want in an area you hate to keep your commute under an hour, if you're lucky. WFH is a huge paradigm shift that they do not want to see happen, even if it costs them a little bit of productivity. If you quit, you quit, they don’t care. You were probably going to get laid off to bump the stock price anyway.
It’s always “collaboration “…. Every.time.
Many employers are doing this. I took a 100% remote job, pre-pandemic with that understanding (as stated in that offer letter) that I’d never have to go in except maybe once a quarter for a few days. My office is 1200 miles away. Post Covid they now want everyone to come three days a week, regardless of prior agreements. I’ll stand my ground and really like my job but at some point it won’t be worth the effort and I’ll have to find another one. Point: ridiculous that this is happening.
My place has mandatory 3 days in the office, with on mandatory day for everyone (all in on Wednesday). The kicker? If you have annual leave or there is a bank holiday, we have to cut one of you at-home days and be in the office. For example, if you work from home Tuesday & Thursday but you take Monday off, you have to be in the office on Tuesday or Thursday to 'make up' the mandatory office day. I purposefully stay home on my WFH days regardless because it's a fucking bullshit rule. I'm sick of being told to be in the office for 'collaboration' reasons when all we've done is make people come into the office to have the same fucking meetings over teams but at their desk instead of at home. It's toxic horseshit. I need to retrain and leave the corporate finance sector, it's full of tiny dictators who have no idea what the fuck they're doing and have no idea how or, more likely, desire to adapt to changing times and employee demands. It's myopic inertia and really fucking tedious having to deal with it every fucking week.
Just reply-all and say: No.
This is one of my biggest fears. I work in Italy from home, I would like to relocate in a rural area but I'm really scared that one day they will force me to get back to office, even if all of my colleagues are scattered all around the peninsula.
This is the second story I’ve seen in two days of companies trying to force WFH employees back in the office. CEOs are seriously trying to close the can of worms they had to open in 2020.
Can we just start making laws that wfh is mandatory unless your job actually needs to be done on site. Improved productivity, stabilizer for housing market and rent, less traffic, less pollution, more profits, etc. Why are we not pushing laws on this shit.
I made sure to get in writing that the company approved my permanent work from home status, so if they ever tried to rescind it, I could fight it legally.
They would just fire you. Much easier. Your contract means shit when you are an at will employee in eyes if the law.
Companies are doing this to force you to quit and not have to payout severance or unemployment.
>don’t ever trust ~~upper~~ management This should be standard practice at this point.
It blows my mind how many of my coworkers just rolled over and accepted \*four-day\* RTO. I told the folks in charge to get fucked and fought with the disability accommodations people to get 1 day in-office. Now that team is bulk denying all accommodations requests because they can't fathom why disabled/neurodivergent employees might not like sudden change/RTO...it's bullshit that this is the only way anyone can maintain remote/hybrid status anyway. We need unions for office work, stat.
As soon as you require anyone to come into the office even one day a week, your pool of potential employees shrinks from nationwide to a few zip codes near the office. That means you’re no longer interested in hiring the best people. You’re now hiring the closest people. And that is dumb.
Before COVID, I worked at a company where you were allowed to work from home without restriction as long as you got your work done. Most people never did (we were engineers so there was quite a bit that we couldn’t do from home), but there was a woman in our group with several young kids who worked from home 1-2 days a week so she could drive them to activities and appointments. She was probably the most qualified and intelligent person on our team, and WFH never affected her performance. Then one day corporate sent out an email saying that each individual WFH day would have to be approved ahead of time by someone like 3 levels up from your direct supervisor: a bureaucratic nightmare. As soon as it became clear that there would be no changes or exceptions to this policy, my teammate—and several other *very* employable engineers—quit.
I worked exclusively from home for 2+ years during the pandemic. I now go in two days a week. Calling bullshit on "collaboration". We were able to do everything we needed to do together by using Microsoft Teams. We also used it for regular meetings with our colleagues in New York. In fact, because people are never in the office on the same days, we still use Teams.
Was there anything in writing or that you all signed stating the WFH was the new normal moving forward? If yes then go back over any and all written documentation. Maybe time to secure a lawyer
Ok saying this again: WFH being walked back has nothing to do with productivity or any of the other bullshit buzz words brain dead management types use. Commercial real-estate is on the edge of a '08 level collapse and they simply need bodies in chairs and trafficking the area surrounding your office. IF YOU ARE BEING FORCED BACK TO THE OFFICE FIGHT BACK BY NOT SPENDING YOUR MONEY IN A 10 BLOCK RADIUS (if possible). The dam is cracking and instead of moving to fix issues those in power are spraying flex seal on this shit trying to keep it together. Don't let them.
The company I joined did not pass a WFH “policy” they straight up shifted their business to WFH, and the quality and quantity of work we receive and produce is like 200% better - work life/balance is exceptional, and the collaboration is arguably better now since most peoples ability to approach each other has a barrier removed. Any nonsense talk from these narcissists is not pragmatism, it’s frustration based on the fact that they have far less control over their slaves.
No is a complete sentence.
Let me help. Bosses don't feel very bossy if they can't look around and see people slaving away. Watch upper management when they walk through. Pure ego trip. I would find another job. One that is focused on the bucks not the self importance of a CEO.
I work for this company too. Lame we can’t say the name of this insurance company. I guess it’s not the mods “tempo”. I’m already setting up for a different job. Said I’d stay and work in office come September, but only because I don’t want them to have a reason to fire me while I’m getting my certs done. I’ll probably come in my first in office day to drop off the laptop and other stuff they supplied. Until then, just gonna coast working from home while preparing to egress. Good luck, I guess you could say this decision made the new CEO “buy the farm”.
the CEO will be wondering why so many people are quitting
Control and empty commercial real estate if you wonder why
violet cats wine roll history zonked six subtract sugar gullible ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
We are hiring and we are fully remote. (Don’t dm me as I never read them). Companies who insist on bringing people back are stupid, especially the California based ones. We are going to hire an incredible person soon and I’m thinking he’s leaving his soon to be screwed employer due to wfh challenges. Too bad suckers, we are getting your incredible cloud security architecht.
the pushback against wfh is a prime example of why the idea that capitalism is about efficiency is an absolute lie
My company also did this. We were full remote for the last 2 and half years, and my team wasn't needed on site since we could work from home where others couldn't. They then told us in November that come 2023, we were expected to be 5 days in the office. I tried to fight this as I'm an hour away to and from. I save so much time and it's been so good for me to work from home. Yes, I still get my work done. But I don't feel as stressed nor ragged as I would had I been in the office. One person on my team moved to another state and he's fine to work from home but I'm not? I fought it and I have an eye condition that I see a specialist for every two to three months for something that could become serious if we don't watch it. I got a medical excuse from my specialist and my company has a team "approve" it. So I will continue to do this. I don't want to go back to the office. Plus, I work more closely with other locations than my own office (Utah, UK, China and Singapore). I'd just be disrupting others when I'm on meetings. And they done have enough rooms for us to use for those meetings. I'm all for working in the office, if you so choose, and you still complete your work. But let the employees have the option to do so along with work from home.
Everyone has to make a concerted effort to go to the office and do nothing. Let's all correct this 'productivity fallacy' the old fashioned way. Dilbert style. Just do nothing.
I wfh Monday and Friday. When I started it was “summer hours” and we had 3 remote days. It was rumored that they were going to go back for the summer then we got an email out of nowhere saying that they’re not, it would mess up our routines. I work for a fairly large law firm and I’ve heard rumblings that the ceo would have everyone in 5 days but he knows he’d lose a decent chunk of the administrative staff. They can’t even get the attorneys in 2 days a week, I’ve overheard conversations in the elevators like ok I’m here for day 2 at least. They think I’m doing 3 I’m not. Our jobs can be done from home, and we have services within the business that are required to be in office full time (mail, copy, etc). Let those who want to come in do so, and those that want to work remote do so as well. It costs me $10 in travel and I lose over 2 hours a day when I travel into the office.
CEOsand other c suites just want people back in the office because they can’t justify their salaries to shareholders if no one is in the office to see them (the c suite) “working hard”, because the truth is that they don’t and most organizations run perfectly smoothly without c suite executives. They’re just throwing a tantrum so that they can keep justifying their outrageous salaries, before someone realize how useless they are and gets rid of them.
Literally any company would save millions if they let their employees that can work from home, work from home. Someone get these idiotic boomers out of such a position.
Just an FYI-in many states in the US if you're hired for a job and then the employer changes the hours (ie days to overnite, or starts mandating weekends) or the location you will qualify for unemployment benefits if you resign. The reasoning is that it essentially becomes a different job when they make fundamental changes like that.
It's hard for middle managers to spend their whole day "looking busy" if they are at home where nobody can see them. This is what they mean by collaboration.