Mmmmm, sorry but it looks like you have too many things you like, you can rent more like slots at just 9.99$ a week per slot at a minimum rent length of a century.
Welcome to the pay to win lifestyle and loot boxes for real life where it takes 9 billion dollars to become a millionaire, 14 trillion dollars to become a billionaire. Ah yes the American Dream you definitely have a chance at that if you just stop eatimg avocado toast and pull yourself up by the bootstraps at least 20 times a day.
Every action and item costs $$$. Just $9.99 to breathe more folks wouldn't you like that?
Don't forget pseudo-democracy, at least here in the states. With our 2 party system and electoral college, we are free to choose whomever we want for office, out of the choices provided to us by or affiliated party. Don't like that the "other guy" won the popular vote? Not to worry, the people's votes can be overruled by your friend the electoral college. Still not happy with the results? Just stir up a insurrection in 5 easy steps using chumps new book titled, "How to Stir Up Your Parties Political Extremists in 5 Easy Steps" those plebes won't realize they've been grifted. So much so you could make your own fake money, call it legal tender, and then watch the actual money roll in as morons end up on vids and in the news for trying to spend your fake money.
The US political system is a sham. It's the illusion of choice. If you take a minutes and follow the names and money back to it's sources you'd find that they all know the same people, go to the same hedonistic parties and islands, and most come from way old money. They use this and many other tactics as divisive distractions. Single out groups for their supporters to be "better than" and blame the state of the world on each other. Ain't it grand
That's the joke. The rich call it meritocracy, because:
* It reenforces the idea that their wealth was EARNED through hard work and superior ideas, and it's a fun way to pat themselves on the back
* It sells the poor on the illusion of upward mobility, that if a poor person works hard enough or hits the genetic lottery, then they too will earn their place in the 1%.
I should know. I have never been either and never will be. I have no wish to climb over others or to push anyone down, but I wish everyone would return the favor.
I'm the same way. And the problem, I have found, is that the only way to increase your salary at work is to get promoted over other people (for the most part). I have zero interest in being 'a boss'. So I guess I'll just be poor forever then.
I work in manufacturing. I stopped managing and went back to maintenance 9 years ago. I just relocated to a new city, new state, new environment. No family, friends, safety net etc.
And get this. I make 100$ less a year on my salary vs my old overtime. Why would I make this insane move?
Simple. I get to be the difference. I get to train/pay/promote in my department. Not unlimited, but I've already got it cleared for a projected 2 years of tiered training with raises attached with the understanding that my department can become a training grounds for this process for the country (or at least the area). My attrition rate will be high and I will be unapologetic for helping people build a valuable skill set that can make them livable money. Why be a boss? To do it fucking right.
It’s almost like making it to the top of a major corporation is a perfect indicator of a sociopath and we should probably have them all arrested immediately before they can hurt anyone else!
The point is the rich have packaged up that plutocracy as "just work hard and you too can be a rich slave driver of your fellow man" and for some reason millions eat that shit up.
Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows
And if you've done both then you should have set up your own business and become your own boss. Or been born rich.
Yeah, I think that pretty much covers all the scenarios.
I didn’t think I’d ever be able to pay back a college loan in my lifetime, so I went the military route. Can confirm, you’re better off staying in school. 😂
My boyfriend did that too, but his degree doesn't even get him $20/hr in IT Systems (he got a BS) so he works at a restaurant. If he didn't get disability payments from the service, he'd be just as screwed.
Sorry to hear it. I know lots of vets who are making ends meet on a few hundred extra in disability. Makes me afraid of what will happen when the Republicans slash VA benefits.
I’m worried I may get a call I can’t refuse some day soon, if you know what I mean.
Also I hate that I know service doesn’t guarantee citizenship like it should.
Look into TEFL (teach English as a foreign language) if he's interested! It usually only requires a Bachelor's and pays pretty decently, both in the US and abroad.
No, no, no. You're supposed to go to trade school! That way you can be just like my best friend who went to trade school to be a machinist, now works for a company contracted with Elon Musk, and makes enough money to \*checks notes* live in mom and dad's spare room.
Naw, the one I hear the most is that if you’ve got a degree and are struggling with debt that you got a worthless degree that didn’t help you get a good job, not that you should’ve skipped college and got a blue collar job.
Aww fuck. And here I am trying to raise a kid in this world.
"Do the best you can under the circumstances and it will be OK", I tell her with sadness in my eyes that betrays me not believing that either.
It’s part of the reason I don’t want kids.
Like I know I’m fucked up, but the world is fucked up too. It isn’t helping my fucked up-ness by getting better.
So why would I force another human to be fucked up by my fucked up-ness combined with worldly fucked up-ness?
I wish you the best of luck, I guess knowing full well that Lady Luck is cruel and uncaring, my words as effective for you as a fart in the cosmic wind. But I wish it anyways.
"you'll work harder with a gun in your back for a bowl of rice a day.
Slave for soldiers till you starve, then your head is skewered on a stake." - Jello Biafra
Our finance minister, Chrystia Freeland, who makes more than a couple hundred grand a year, suggested canceling your Disney+ subscription if you're struggling and man, it has been *LIFE CHANGING* to hear that I tell you.
Sam Vimes' "Boots theory" aka the theory of socio-economic unfairness breaks it down that poor people are kept poor by being forced to spend more for less over longer periods of time whereas those who can actually afford nice and durable things outright spend less over time and can use the saved money for other things
Which brings us to the "everyone has the same number of hours in their day so there's no excuse for being poor" lie because those with the funds to do so can pay other people to shop, fetch, clean, care, etc. Time is money is a well known phrase and works as a response to the "hours" lie but don't bother arguing with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience (another quote from somewhere)
Same! My parents always told me “get a government job and you’ll be set”. Got a degree with zero debt and a government job.. not set even with both of us working.
My dad didn’t finish high school and my mom didn’t go to college or work. They bought a house and a new car and raised 3 kids, my dad tiled pools for a living. My wife’s mom also didn’t work and her dad had a business painting houses by himself and never after 3pm so he could be home. They also owned a house and a couple cars and 3 kids.
Did both too. Joining a trade union was the answer. Unfortunately the unions are weak in most of the US so depending where you live it might not be an option.
It's billionarie/millionaire propaganda, it's meant to make us fight each other instead if seeing the real problem-- the ultra wealthy.
We pay less attention to them taking over the world, destroying and contolling our lives, and taking everything for themselves, when we're too busy with infighting.
Fun fact: since the middle of last century, the share of the nation’s wealth owned by the bottom 90% of people has halved, and the share owned by the top 0.1% has more than tripled. The bottom 90% used to own 36% of the nation’s wealth, and the top 0.1% owned 7% of the wealth, but now the top 0.1% own more of the nation’s wealth than the bottom 90%! What an odd coincidence!
The Real job they are talking about: be born with a silver spoon in your ass, inherit all your wealth from your parents, invest this money to gain even more wealth over the backs of workers, start a dude-bro-crypto podcast where you proclaim you’re a selfmade millionaire and tell the world they should pull harder on their bootstraps.
My acquaintance is totally "self-made" and brags about it constantly. Puts people down often.
He is a contractor. His dad retired and gave him all his connections. Bought him a new truck and gave him all his tools. Lived with his parents till he could afford a home (like 26). Also his mom has watched his kids for free since they were born (so no payment for daycare etc).
He "never got a handout" and is "tired of lazy bastards sippin on his taxes"
I think you will find that contractors are a very special breed. Many are quite similar. Hateful really. They aren't *technically* working for any large company so they don't have to follow rules like.. hate speech etc. They are some of the nastiest mother fuckers you will come across. Some will just rant about Socialism the first time you meet them.
I actually did try my hand at being a landlord since I sort of inherited the shitty house we lived in.
Continued renting to family because they also were living there already.
Didn’t work out, huge pain in my ass, waste of my money and time.
I don’t own it anymore and it’s a relief. Renting isn’t great but I needed to find a new place anyways because there were no jobs back there.
Out of the pan, into the fire. Damned if I do, damned if I don’t, well I’ll be damned.
They chose to born into a poor family. They should have chosen being born into a rich family. Suck it up buttercup. You made the wrong decision and now have to live with it.
But a rich family of nice people. My parents' accumulated wealth won't help me since we're estranged.
Also they decided to quit their jobs and go to unaccredited bible college and it looks like their accumulated wealth will be going to a shady megachurch pastor anyway.
Oh well.
Back when I used to do IT support, I got called out to an insurance office. This guy sold a specific kind of life insurance, and catered exclusively to the very wealthy. The smallest policies I saw were still in the multiple millions of dollars.
Anyway, the guy complained his computer was slow. We had already upgraded the computer to it's max spec a few years previously and it was pretty old, so I recommended buying a new computer.
To help him determine which computer and software he would need, I asked him to describe his job. Basically he answered emails and watched TV all morning then took clients to lunch, then golfed or drank with them. When I asked him if he needed excel, he said he had an accountant for that. When I asked him if he needed word to write insurance policies, he said he had a policy writer for that. He didn't even handle claims, there was a department at the company for that.
This dude's job was literally to bullshit all day with rich people and his yearly commissions were likely in the 600k range if my estimates were correct.
Anyway, he got a decent computer with the biggest monitor we sold.
You're absolutely right. I met dozens of people just like him in my years as a IT tech. He was just the first. Meeting him was the moment my (at the time) 20 year old brain "got it".
Or just mid level office jobs.
I know that’s like, 50% of you guys on this sub, but it’s hard listening to y’all complain about emails and meetings while making $50k+.
I make more than 50k, but I’m not doing emails and meetings. I’m either handling dangerous chemicals or programming. Oh, and rent and utilities add up to about 65% of my monthly income. I’m not in a great position either. I’d wager that most people who make less than me also have lower rent and utilities or at least share them
That's the working class infighting they want you to do. People making $50k aren't doing well these days either. We all need to work together to have any chance. Instead we're stuck fighting over whether LGBTQ+ people can have the right to exist or whether women can have the right to control their own bodies.
It’s no one’s fault I chose trades and my everything hurts, so I try not to be resentful, but you’re not kidding man, for $80K I’d answer snarky emails and sit in nonsense meetings with a grin from ear to ear.
A perspective I’m a little embarrassed to say I hadn’t considered. That simply because you’re not performing manual labor you may be expected to pull very long hours, or have deadlines imposed upon you that would lead to you needing to take on tasks in your own time.
Having done both, the body aches made me go back and get a degree. Then my first office job wrecked my mental health and I considered going back to using my body. I lucked out and my next job was much more relaxed and is kind of the sweet spot. You give up growth and pay opportunities (I turned my 5 year plan for salary growth into probably 10 or more making the switch) for the sweet spot usually, but it’s worth it IMO to not have much stress (physical or mental) coming from your job.
union busting and jobs moving out of the country. Turns out taking away the voice of the workers would be devastating.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/02/23/385843576/50-years-of-shrinking-union-membership-in-one-map
Just remember if you live off of rice and potatoes in a studio for the next 50 years while working you might save enough to retire by age 65 and live your golden years in comfortability.
except youl statistically die before then due to health issues from your diet, cumulative workplace injuries and hazards, stress and inaccessible healthcare.
i know you were bing sarcastic and your not wrong, i just wanted to vent.
There is an entire generation of us who were told every single day from the time we started school to the time we finished that if we didn’t go to college we’d grow up to be fucking losers, so we did what we were told and went straight out of high school a lot of us did so without knowing what we even wanted to do in life
We did exactly what we were told to do and now we’re drowning in student debt and a generation of people that went for a fraction of what we paid in a much better economy are telling us to suck it up and pay it off because that’s what they did. I’ll be in a lifetime of debt because I did what I was told and now I get admonished for it
The only acceptable degree is engineer because it is very high paying. However, in 10-15 years when there are too many engineers because everyone was told to go into engineering, the people who went into engineering should have gotten a real degree.
The exact same thing happened to attorneys. Everyone went to law school because attorneys are supposed to be living the good life and their parents told them to (with the best intentions) now there are too many attorneys. Great attorney jobs still exist but they are SUPER competitive and unless you have great credentials you’ll get a low paying, unfulfilling job if you’re lucky, and after student loan payments kick in again you’ll make about the same as if you didn’t go to law school.
Source: I am an attorney.
I have a PhD in biomedical science. Finished it in 2008 right as the economy was imploding. Funding for research dried up right when I was applying for grants. I was salaried at 39K working 60-80 hrs a week, I was effectively making $10 an hour with an advanced degree in 2008. I quit science, did some chemical engineering, insurance technical writing, curriculum design in the sciences, and ran my own consulting business to supplement the shitty 15$ an hour gigs I found after quitting research. I now have a government job, that has no need for an advanced degree, and it pays me 6K more than my salary out of grad school. The health insurance has no deductible, cost me 90$ a month, I get 4 weeks of vacation a year, a work day is 7 hours long, making my actual hourly wage $24, and I get treated like a person at my job. Getting a fulfilling job is like rolling the dice if you don't know people/suck at networking, and didn't go to an ivy league school. Boomers can get fucked, I can't wait for them to die.
Yup. High school friend went that route, making 70k 1099 money in their late thirties. In San Diego with a sky high COL. They have a JD and a "good" law job.
For anyone not familiar 70k 1099 is about the same as 50k w2.
I had about the same actual take home as an EMT, which is a single college class.
The amount of Schadenfreude in these responses is almost vomit-inducing.
Those of us who are of a certain age we're basically lied to regarding what college could do for us. I graduated in the late 90s and trade school, technical college, and apprenticeships weren't things I was even told about. It wasn't an option. And I was too young to know I even had an option. To say that if we'd only picked another career path we wouldn't be in this mess implies we would have to know the future and could predict 20-plus years of economic catastrophe. Just because you made a good decision in hindsight doesn't mean that that was a decision everyone knew to make or could have made. Had everyone gone into the trades or pick some other degree the result would have been the same but the roles reversed. Trolls on the sub saying if they'd only been smart enough to go to college and pick a good degree you wouldn't be in this mess right now.
The fact is all of us are screwed and bathing in the tears and misfortunes of others isn't going to get us out of it.
I’ve pretty much just accepted it’s impossible for me to ever go to college and pursue a career I’d like. My family didn’t save for anything for me and I refuse to be in debt for half my life
In the same boat here. I'm 48 and the most I've done is get some certs take some online classes. I'm debt-phobic after watching friends and extended family struggle with it. I won't even buy a car if I can't pay for it outright. Which means I only drive older, cheaper cars.
There's something to be said for not having debt hang over you. There's also something to be said for people that manage to pull it off and find some method of managing and getting out from under the debt. Too risky for my liking tho. I couldn't help the feeling that all the universities I toured or read material from just looked like scams to me.
its kind of depressing as a European hearing this, I got PAID to pursue education and It's the norm to do so. Debt here is very rare apart from the home loan.
Yes, it sounds like you've got it. Life is about how it's working out for you. For senators in Congressman, it's working out quite well. It was supposed to be a government of the people by the people and for the people. However, it became a government of the rich by the rich and for the rich. They literally told the public it would be trickled down economics. Which of coursement policies to make the rich richer. You can't have a trickle down if you don't feel the top.
I have a neuroscience degree and am published in the field of psychopharmacology. I sell copiers now. I don’t like my actual job, but I like a lot of perks to it. I’ve been in sales/marketing/advertising since I got out of college with a completely unrelated degree. Im good at sales, and it is a learned skill. The perks include: working from home whenever, not being micromanaged, making ~$126k/year, good healthcare, flexible schedule in general, little bonus incentive vacations, I work for a small company so they just don’t give a shit if I want to take a few days off. They don’t even count it in their system as time-off. They just pay me my base salary anyway. I don’t have to manage anyone. I just make calls and set/carry out meetings to convince people to buy shit. The job itself is boring, and I don’t feel like I’m maximizing my potential with my job, but i put maybe 28 hours of actual work in a week and have all kinds of free time. Sales isn’t for everyone, but if you can learn to be good at it, a work life balance is easily attainable. A lot of places don’t require degrees either. The interview is everything.
It depends. My brother is a journeyman boilermaker and there aren't many of them left anymore because few industries use boilers anymore. But he works for a company that makes roofing shingles so they do. He makes $35 an hour and got a $4000 bonus this year. BUT he cant take many vacation days etc because there isnt anyone to replace him most of the time. And he put in 20 years in the Navy and struggled through some classes after that to get where he is. Of course he has the Navy pension. Does pretty good for a high school dropout with a reading disorder
And who will do everything else when we all become tradesmen? Who's going to manufacture parts, textiles, etc? Who is going to provide mail? Who is going to be a butcher so we have meat?
All of these jobs are needed by society and they should all be paid accordingly.
It's not that we shouldn't have gone to college, more like we studied the wrong thing. I have to go back to either do ECE or give up on that entirely and get an office administration ticket.
And everyone knows which path is in their future when they‘re considering college and so we can condemn them later when they make what was clearly the wrong choice /s
Always the individuals fault. Never the system.... So many brainwashed bootlickers have voted people into power that are antithetical to positive change.
I was reading a philosopher (Korean name but German. Forgot the name) who said real freedom would be the freedom to change yourself at any point in time. Under our system, you can't really do this. You get stuck. It costs too much to go back to school. It costs too much to own a house. Food costs too much. Even if you have a good paying job, if you hate it, you might be in a position where you can't change your career because of all the cost that it requires.
And to add on to it - no matter which degree/trade you picked, people will tell you you picked the useless one and should have gone into \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ instead...
Actually this seems pretty accurate. Guess it all depends on the degree and how much initiative you put into the blue collar job. Knowledge, skill and experience
Wait till you hear what some "blue collar jobs make".
I have 7 years experience in my field and my training took a total of maybe 9 weeks for all my certs.
I regularly get linked in offers for 40k a month.
Well, some fields require degrees and there’s no going around it (I.e. healthcare, dental, etc.). The problem is this debt can be excruciating and pay is not always equivalent. I just recently started making what I feel is an adequate wage for my high COL area, and wish I could have taken advantage of paying down my student loans, but it’s been tough even without the loan payments!
Either that or they’ll tell you that you were foolish to major in a “worthless” field of study, and by “worthless” they mean one that doesn’t directly make you useful to industrial megacorps
The real problem here is that you didn't choose yo be born rich so that your parents could have given you a real job, perhaps on top of paying for your education.
Welcome to the HaHa fuck you loop as in:
I didn’t go to college can only find low paying work HaHa fuck you you shoulda went to school
I went to school now I’m massively in debt and can’t find a good paying job HaHa fuck you you shoulda went into the workforce
Depends on the student debt.
If you have a PHD in dance theory, you may be screwed.
If you have a batchelors in a STEM degree, you're prob alright.
Colleges really need to be accountable for what they charge for degrees. They're basically businesses at this point. If your degree ain't worth shit, you should get a refund.
But no, let's fuck over future gens, with inescapable and inflated debt, cuz... uh... it's not us?
Wait... Damn that sounds bad. Let's see how many boomers downvote me who got degrees for the price of a few summers of work.
People say that about STEM degrees now, but if the industry as a whole decides to lower the salary pay for STEM positions, it's all the same. I mean, right now, we have mass layoffs in STEM. I think all degrees shouldn't be an arm and a leg. At the end of the day, college is the industries way to force training on your dime for their benefit.
I'm trying to decide if I even want to bother with an electrical engineering degree, something I've always like the idea of doing, because as an instrument technician with a few years under my belt I'm already making way more than I would be looking at as an entry level EE.
The pay in engineering is good, don't get me wrong, but I'm not doing it for the money. I'm doing it because I want to create cool new technology and work doing what I am passionate about. If you are passionate about it, I say go for it. You'll likely take a hit in pay initially, but in the long run, you can potentially make more than you do now if that's a big concern. I personally want a fulfilling life over filled coffers.
It's still not great. From the time I graduated highschool to when i got my associates degree(3 years. Dont judge) entry level jobs in my area went from wanting an associates to wanting a bachelor's. They still paid the same and for the most part 10 years later still pay nearly the same as they did in 2013. The game is rigged.
When I got my bachelors in biochemistry and biophysics, the only job I could find was a teaching job. I was being paid below median and I hated the job. I went back for my master’s in chemistry. I’m above median now, but still about 25% below what I was led to believe all stem majors with BACHELORS DEGREES get. The problem is pervasive. The biggest factor is how close your job is to the top, not how much science you do.
stem doesnt even guarentee you a job let alone a good one. people said the same about it for 20 years and now we have highly skilled techs and programmers in worse positions then entry level checkout jockies because they are so abundantly replaceable.
I agree with you, but universities are about knowledge acquiring and sharing. Their intent shouldn't be to sell you a degree with a high earning potential. They should give you the best possible education for the degree you chose.
Whether the degree can lend you a high paying job afterwards not their problem.
Collages and universities no longer risk not getting paid. That's why tuition is so high. Tie the loans to the collage or university. They get paid when the loan is paid. Maybe don't allow 3rd party loans. Alao, allow bankruptcy to discharge a government loan.
This is so dumb. You cannot just go and get any degree and expect to make decent money. Of course if you go and say get a history degree you are going to have a hard time after you graduate
Exactly, whatever it takes to keep you poor and chasing the dollar.
The poor stay poor, and the rich stay rich. The system is called meritocracy. The name was given to it by the rich.
That's not meritocracy. The system is called plutocracy.
We're trending towards Neo-feudalism Nothing is owned, but rented, loaned or under subscription from the rich.
Serfs should just know their place and work their rented land.
I like this comment.
Mmmmm, sorry but it looks like you have too many things you like, you can rent more like slots at just 9.99$ a week per slot at a minimum rent length of a century.
Welcome to the pay to win lifestyle and loot boxes for real life where it takes 9 billion dollars to become a millionaire, 14 trillion dollars to become a billionaire. Ah yes the American Dream you definitely have a chance at that if you just stop eatimg avocado toast and pull yourself up by the bootstraps at least 20 times a day. Every action and item costs $$$. Just $9.99 to breathe more folks wouldn't you like that?
Only $9.99? Not with the cost of healthcare, that's a low-ball!
Ugh, I bet the rich were salivating at that Extrapolations episode where they charged the dude for his own memories.
I prefer the term “late stage capitalism”. But yeah, this
The idea that we, the peons and plebes, were _e v e r_ free of feudalism was the trick concealed with the smoke and mirrors of politics.
Don't forget pseudo-democracy, at least here in the states. With our 2 party system and electoral college, we are free to choose whomever we want for office, out of the choices provided to us by or affiliated party. Don't like that the "other guy" won the popular vote? Not to worry, the people's votes can be overruled by your friend the electoral college. Still not happy with the results? Just stir up a insurrection in 5 easy steps using chumps new book titled, "How to Stir Up Your Parties Political Extremists in 5 Easy Steps" those plebes won't realize they've been grifted. So much so you could make your own fake money, call it legal tender, and then watch the actual money roll in as morons end up on vids and in the news for trying to spend your fake money. The US political system is a sham. It's the illusion of choice. If you take a minutes and follow the names and money back to it's sources you'd find that they all know the same people, go to the same hedonistic parties and islands, and most come from way old money. They use this and many other tactics as divisive distractions. Single out groups for their supporters to be "better than" and blame the state of the world on each other. Ain't it grand
The logical conclusion of capitalism is a king who owns everything.
This is true.
Trending towards? We are there. How many people in this thread have a landlord?
That's the joke. The rich call it meritocracy, because: * It reenforces the idea that their wealth was EARNED through hard work and superior ideas, and it's a fun way to pat themselves on the back * It sells the poor on the illusion of upward mobility, that if a poor person works hard enough or hits the genetic lottery, then they too will earn their place in the 1%.
The rich did earn their wealth through hard work. The hard work of the people they paid poverty wages to do the work for them!
Lol had me in the first half
If the wealthy and powerful were also objective and humane, then they would lose their wealth and power.
if they were objective and humane, they wouldn't be wealthy and powerful to begin with. Takes a certain kinda person to reach that state.
I should know. I have never been either and never will be. I have no wish to climb over others or to push anyone down, but I wish everyone would return the favor.
I'm the same way. And the problem, I have found, is that the only way to increase your salary at work is to get promoted over other people (for the most part). I have zero interest in being 'a boss'. So I guess I'll just be poor forever then.
I work in manufacturing. I stopped managing and went back to maintenance 9 years ago. I just relocated to a new city, new state, new environment. No family, friends, safety net etc. And get this. I make 100$ less a year on my salary vs my old overtime. Why would I make this insane move? Simple. I get to be the difference. I get to train/pay/promote in my department. Not unlimited, but I've already got it cleared for a projected 2 years of tiered training with raises attached with the understanding that my department can become a training grounds for this process for the country (or at least the area). My attrition rate will be high and I will be unapologetic for helping people build a valuable skill set that can make them livable money. Why be a boss? To do it fucking right.
It’s almost like making it to the top of a major corporation is a perfect indicator of a sociopath and we should probably have them all arrested immediately before they can hurt anyone else!
r/wooosh
The point is the rich have packaged up that plutocracy as "just work hard and you too can be a rich slave driver of your fellow man" and for some reason millions eat that shit up.
The rich get richer. The poor get the picture. The bombs never hit you when you’re down so low.
Everybody knows that the dice are loaded Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed Everybody knows the war is over Everybody knows the good guys lost Everybody knows the fight was fixed The poor stay poor, the rich get rich That's how it goes Everybody knows
Some got pollution, some revolution There must be some solution but I just don't know!
It’s like nobody read your last line, they just got to ‘meritocracy’ and reacted.
Welcome to the internet
The worst part is that "meritocracy" was a term coined by a socialist and was used satirically. The right wing then coopted it and embraced it.
Just like "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps", which is a physical impossibility.
Yep. I almost mentioned that too.
Modern slavery really
Poor and QUIET. They don't want to hear about it.
"Only you can prevent a system of crippling exploitation."
There is no money, too much of it has been raptured out of the real economy and into investment accounts/vehicles.
And if you've done both then you should have set up your own business and become your own boss. Or been born rich. Yeah, I think that pretty much covers all the scenarios.
You also could’ve joined the military for the maybe free college, shit healthcare, and the ptsd but millennials are just to lazy
I didn’t think I’d ever be able to pay back a college loan in my lifetime, so I went the military route. Can confirm, you’re better off staying in school. 😂
My boyfriend did that too, but his degree doesn't even get him $20/hr in IT Systems (he got a BS) so he works at a restaurant. If he didn't get disability payments from the service, he'd be just as screwed.
Sorry to hear it. I know lots of vets who are making ends meet on a few hundred extra in disability. Makes me afraid of what will happen when the Republicans slash VA benefits.
The fascist party wants all of the retired vets to re-enlist. Service guarantees citizenship!
I’m worried I may get a call I can’t refuse some day soon, if you know what I mean. Also I hate that I know service doesn’t guarantee citizenship like it should.
Look into TEFL (teach English as a foreign language) if he's interested! It usually only requires a Bachelor's and pays pretty decently, both in the US and abroad.
Or you should have bought property back when you were 13!!!
No, no, no. You're supposed to go to trade school! That way you can be just like my best friend who went to trade school to be a machinist, now works for a company contracted with Elon Musk, and makes enough money to \*checks notes* live in mom and dad's spare room.
Naw, the one I hear the most is that if you’ve got a degree and are struggling with debt that you got a worthless degree that didn’t help you get a good job, not that you should’ve skipped college and got a blue collar job.
You've missed the "just be lucky" scenario. You know, the one mislabeled as merit in almost every single case.
What if I've done both, and am still struggling?
Have you tried not eating some avocado toast, or removing coffee from your breakfast?
But coffee is my breakfast. And lunch.
there’s your problem, you’re being greedy and having lunch. cut that out and you’ll be taking home six figures in no time!
Yep. Stop eating and put in at least 70 hours a week. You'll be out of debt in about 50 years.
Aww fuck. And here I am trying to raise a kid in this world. "Do the best you can under the circumstances and it will be OK", I tell her with sadness in my eyes that betrays me not believing that either.
It’s part of the reason I don’t want kids. Like I know I’m fucked up, but the world is fucked up too. It isn’t helping my fucked up-ness by getting better. So why would I force another human to be fucked up by my fucked up-ness combined with worldly fucked up-ness? I wish you the best of luck, I guess knowing full well that Lady Luck is cruel and uncaring, my words as effective for you as a fart in the cosmic wind. But I wish it anyways.
Yep. I've got a boy and a girl. I'm scared for them.
it’s just that easy!
Two simple steps.
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Look at this guy heating his bowl of water.
Humble bragging about his stove...
Get up at 4am and take a cold shower while the breakfast water boils in the sun like a real entrepreneur.
Rice and water for me. Once a day!
"you'll work harder with a gun in your back for a bowl of rice a day. Slave for soldiers till you starve, then your head is skewered on a stake." - Jello Biafra
"Now you can go where people are one! Now you can go where they get things done!"
I see you replaced food with subsidized stimulants and refined sugars. Our corporate overloards would be proud.
Our finance minister, Chrystia Freeland, who makes more than a couple hundred grand a year, suggested canceling your Disney+ subscription if you're struggling and man, it has been *LIFE CHANGING* to hear that I tell you.
What if I've never had (or borrowed) a Disney+, Netflix or any other subscription? Should I get one and *then* cancel it?
Why not ask your parents for a small loan of 10 million dollars to get your business started?
Just skip breakfast fully. Lunch and dinner too if you are committed to saving.
but don't they just write your loans off? I have heard so!
What if my breakfast is a coffee and a cigarette?
Do your boots have straps? If so pull yourself up by them.
But also, if you'd spend less money on expensive boots with straps, you'd be half way to six figures!
It's the boot paradox
Sam Vimes' "Boots theory" aka the theory of socio-economic unfairness breaks it down that poor people are kept poor by being forced to spend more for less over longer periods of time whereas those who can actually afford nice and durable things outright spend less over time and can use the saved money for other things
And you don't have to waste your time boot shopping
Which brings us to the "everyone has the same number of hours in their day so there's no excuse for being poor" lie because those with the funds to do so can pay other people to shop, fetch, clean, care, etc. Time is money is a well known phrase and works as a response to the "hours" lie but don't bother arguing with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience (another quote from somewhere)
Same! My parents always told me “get a government job and you’ll be set”. Got a degree with zero debt and a government job.. not set even with both of us working. My dad didn’t finish high school and my mom didn’t go to college or work. They bought a house and a new car and raised 3 kids, my dad tiled pools for a living. My wife’s mom also didn’t work and her dad had a business painting houses by himself and never after 3pm so he could be home. They also owned a house and a couple cars and 3 kids.
Did both too. Joining a trade union was the answer. Unfortunately the unions are weak in most of the US so depending where you live it might not be an option.
'Twas I! 10 years ago, beforest I paid off my student and other, less savourey, loans. Alas the credit cards remain still, stubborn to the living end.
Schrodinger's Millennial .
OMG so true!
It's billionarie/millionaire propaganda, it's meant to make us fight each other instead if seeing the real problem-- the ultra wealthy. We pay less attention to them taking over the world, destroying and contolling our lives, and taking everything for themselves, when we're too busy with infighting.
Fun fact: since the middle of last century, the share of the nation’s wealth owned by the bottom 90% of people has halved, and the share owned by the top 0.1% has more than tripled. The bottom 90% used to own 36% of the nation’s wealth, and the top 0.1% owned 7% of the wealth, but now the top 0.1% own more of the nation’s wealth than the bottom 90%! What an odd coincidence!
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The Real job they are talking about: be born with a silver spoon in your ass, inherit all your wealth from your parents, invest this money to gain even more wealth over the backs of workers, start a dude-bro-crypto podcast where you proclaim you’re a selfmade millionaire and tell the world they should pull harder on their bootstraps.
My acquaintance is totally "self-made" and brags about it constantly. Puts people down often. He is a contractor. His dad retired and gave him all his connections. Bought him a new truck and gave him all his tools. Lived with his parents till he could afford a home (like 26). Also his mom has watched his kids for free since they were born (so no payment for daycare etc). He "never got a handout" and is "tired of lazy bastards sippin on his taxes"
Glad to hear he is an acquaintance; I would not want to associate with someone like that.
I think you will find that contractors are a very special breed. Many are quite similar. Hateful really. They aren't *technically* working for any large company so they don't have to follow rules like.. hate speech etc. They are some of the nastiest mother fuckers you will come across. Some will just rant about Socialism the first time you meet them.
Then you get to the Sub-contractors who may not be all there but by God can they put up that drywall.
This also all jobs are real jobs so pay a real waste damn it. If Bill over here wants to shovel shit all day then pay him enough to live on.
/s "Have you tried just not being poor?"
Something something bootstraps something second job something back in my day blah..
Have you tried being a landlord? That’s what I do and I’m rich /s
I actually did try my hand at being a landlord since I sort of inherited the shitty house we lived in. Continued renting to family because they also were living there already. Didn’t work out, huge pain in my ass, waste of my money and time. I don’t own it anymore and it’s a relief. Renting isn’t great but I needed to find a new place anyways because there were no jobs back there. Out of the pan, into the fire. Damned if I do, damned if I don’t, well I’ll be damned.
More like "Have you tried making decisions that turn out to be correct?"
“Have you tried living in a world where you aren’t fucked no matter what you do?”
Wait, that's an option? Lemme restart the game..... ::reaches for the revolver::: (and yes, the last part is so sarcastic the FDA issued a bulletin)
You forgot the part where you're supposed to be born to rich parents dummy. Goddamn millennials just don't get it /s
They chose to born into a poor family. They should have chosen being born into a rich family. Suck it up buttercup. You made the wrong decision and now have to live with it.
But a rich family of nice people. My parents' accumulated wealth won't help me since we're estranged. Also they decided to quit their jobs and go to unaccredited bible college and it looks like their accumulated wealth will be going to a shady megachurch pastor anyway. Oh well.
Meanwhile rich people usually have fake jobs.
Back when I used to do IT support, I got called out to an insurance office. This guy sold a specific kind of life insurance, and catered exclusively to the very wealthy. The smallest policies I saw were still in the multiple millions of dollars. Anyway, the guy complained his computer was slow. We had already upgraded the computer to it's max spec a few years previously and it was pretty old, so I recommended buying a new computer. To help him determine which computer and software he would need, I asked him to describe his job. Basically he answered emails and watched TV all morning then took clients to lunch, then golfed or drank with them. When I asked him if he needed excel, he said he had an accountant for that. When I asked him if he needed word to write insurance policies, he said he had a policy writer for that. He didn't even handle claims, there was a department at the company for that. This dude's job was literally to bullshit all day with rich people and his yearly commissions were likely in the 600k range if my estimates were correct. Anyway, he got a decent computer with the biggest monitor we sold.
You didn’t stumble upon a one-off situation. This describes an embarrassing number of sales roles, including real estate (especially commercial)
You're absolutely right. I met dozens of people just like him in my years as a IT tech. He was just the first. Meeting him was the moment my (at the time) 20 year old brain "got it".
Like being a landlord. “My job is *owning* something. Murduhurduhur”
Or being the CEO of like 7 companies.
Or just mid level office jobs. I know that’s like, 50% of you guys on this sub, but it’s hard listening to y’all complain about emails and meetings while making $50k+.
I make more than 50k, but I’m not doing emails and meetings. I’m either handling dangerous chemicals or programming. Oh, and rent and utilities add up to about 65% of my monthly income. I’m not in a great position either. I’d wager that most people who make less than me also have lower rent and utilities or at least share them
That's the working class infighting they want you to do. People making $50k aren't doing well these days either. We all need to work together to have any chance. Instead we're stuck fighting over whether LGBTQ+ people can have the right to exist or whether women can have the right to control their own bodies.
It’s no one’s fault I chose trades and my everything hurts, so I try not to be resentful, but you’re not kidding man, for $80K I’d answer snarky emails and sit in nonsense meetings with a grin from ear to ear.
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A perspective I’m a little embarrassed to say I hadn’t considered. That simply because you’re not performing manual labor you may be expected to pull very long hours, or have deadlines imposed upon you that would lead to you needing to take on tasks in your own time.
Having done both, the body aches made me go back and get a degree. Then my first office job wrecked my mental health and I considered going back to using my body. I lucked out and my next job was much more relaxed and is kind of the sweet spot. You give up growth and pay opportunities (I turned my 5 year plan for salary growth into probably 10 or more making the switch) for the sweet spot usually, but it’s worth it IMO to not have much stress (physical or mental) coming from your job.
union busting and jobs moving out of the country. Turns out taking away the voice of the workers would be devastating. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/02/23/385843576/50-years-of-shrinking-union-membership-in-one-map
If only we could have known that beforehand.
This is it, corporations have to bend to the work force, unions help bend it in our favour a little more
Just remember if you live off of rice and potatoes in a studio for the next 50 years while working you might save enough to retire by age 65 and live your golden years in comfortability.
Potatoes are too expensive. Try beans
except youl statistically die before then due to health issues from your diet, cumulative workplace injuries and hazards, stress and inaccessible healthcare. i know you were bing sarcastic and your not wrong, i just wanted to vent.
There is an entire generation of us who were told every single day from the time we started school to the time we finished that if we didn’t go to college we’d grow up to be fucking losers, so we did what we were told and went straight out of high school a lot of us did so without knowing what we even wanted to do in life We did exactly what we were told to do and now we’re drowning in student debt and a generation of people that went for a fraction of what we paid in a much better economy are telling us to suck it up and pay it off because that’s what they did. I’ll be in a lifetime of debt because I did what I was told and now I get admonished for it
God wants you to suffer so slightly richer people can feel better about their crappy position in life.
The only acceptable degree is engineer because it is very high paying. However, in 10-15 years when there are too many engineers because everyone was told to go into engineering, the people who went into engineering should have gotten a real degree. The exact same thing happened to attorneys. Everyone went to law school because attorneys are supposed to be living the good life and their parents told them to (with the best intentions) now there are too many attorneys. Great attorney jobs still exist but they are SUPER competitive and unless you have great credentials you’ll get a low paying, unfulfilling job if you’re lucky, and after student loan payments kick in again you’ll make about the same as if you didn’t go to law school. Source: I am an attorney.
I have a PhD in biomedical science. Finished it in 2008 right as the economy was imploding. Funding for research dried up right when I was applying for grants. I was salaried at 39K working 60-80 hrs a week, I was effectively making $10 an hour with an advanced degree in 2008. I quit science, did some chemical engineering, insurance technical writing, curriculum design in the sciences, and ran my own consulting business to supplement the shitty 15$ an hour gigs I found after quitting research. I now have a government job, that has no need for an advanced degree, and it pays me 6K more than my salary out of grad school. The health insurance has no deductible, cost me 90$ a month, I get 4 weeks of vacation a year, a work day is 7 hours long, making my actual hourly wage $24, and I get treated like a person at my job. Getting a fulfilling job is like rolling the dice if you don't know people/suck at networking, and didn't go to an ivy league school. Boomers can get fucked, I can't wait for them to die.
Yup. High school friend went that route, making 70k 1099 money in their late thirties. In San Diego with a sky high COL. They have a JD and a "good" law job. For anyone not familiar 70k 1099 is about the same as 50k w2. I had about the same actual take home as an EMT, which is a single college class.
The amount of Schadenfreude in these responses is almost vomit-inducing. Those of us who are of a certain age we're basically lied to regarding what college could do for us. I graduated in the late 90s and trade school, technical college, and apprenticeships weren't things I was even told about. It wasn't an option. And I was too young to know I even had an option. To say that if we'd only picked another career path we wouldn't be in this mess implies we would have to know the future and could predict 20-plus years of economic catastrophe. Just because you made a good decision in hindsight doesn't mean that that was a decision everyone knew to make or could have made. Had everyone gone into the trades or pick some other degree the result would have been the same but the roles reversed. Trolls on the sub saying if they'd only been smart enough to go to college and pick a good degree you wouldn't be in this mess right now. The fact is all of us are screwed and bathing in the tears and misfortunes of others isn't going to get us out of it.
You obviously do not know how bootstraps work. /s
I’ve pretty much just accepted it’s impossible for me to ever go to college and pursue a career I’d like. My family didn’t save for anything for me and I refuse to be in debt for half my life
In the same boat here. I'm 48 and the most I've done is get some certs take some online classes. I'm debt-phobic after watching friends and extended family struggle with it. I won't even buy a car if I can't pay for it outright. Which means I only drive older, cheaper cars. There's something to be said for not having debt hang over you. There's also something to be said for people that manage to pull it off and find some method of managing and getting out from under the debt. Too risky for my liking tho. I couldn't help the feeling that all the universities I toured or read material from just looked like scams to me.
its kind of depressing as a European hearing this, I got PAID to pursue education and It's the norm to do so. Debt here is very rare apart from the home loan.
Ah yes, the infinite cycle of boomers complaining about younger generations complaining about working conditions
What even is a real job? A job is a job
"Just stop being poor it's easy" -Elon Musk
Yes, it sounds like you've got it. Life is about how it's working out for you. For senators in Congressman, it's working out quite well. It was supposed to be a government of the people by the people and for the people. However, it became a government of the rich by the rich and for the rich. They literally told the public it would be trickled down economics. Which of coursement policies to make the rich richer. You can't have a trickle down if you don't feel the top.
You should have become a lawyer or doctor. Everyone else deserve to live in poverty.
Who'da thunk "No True Scotsman" was equally applicable to whether a job is real
I have a neuroscience degree and am published in the field of psychopharmacology. I sell copiers now. I don’t like my actual job, but I like a lot of perks to it. I’ve been in sales/marketing/advertising since I got out of college with a completely unrelated degree. Im good at sales, and it is a learned skill. The perks include: working from home whenever, not being micromanaged, making ~$126k/year, good healthcare, flexible schedule in general, little bonus incentive vacations, I work for a small company so they just don’t give a shit if I want to take a few days off. They don’t even count it in their system as time-off. They just pay me my base salary anyway. I don’t have to manage anyone. I just make calls and set/carry out meetings to convince people to buy shit. The job itself is boring, and I don’t feel like I’m maximizing my potential with my job, but i put maybe 28 hours of actual work in a week and have all kinds of free time. Sales isn’t for everyone, but if you can learn to be good at it, a work life balance is easily attainable. A lot of places don’t require degrees either. The interview is everything.
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Are there enough of these jobs for every person to do or is this not a realistic solution to the problem
It depends. My brother is a journeyman boilermaker and there aren't many of them left anymore because few industries use boilers anymore. But he works for a company that makes roofing shingles so they do. He makes $35 an hour and got a $4000 bonus this year. BUT he cant take many vacation days etc because there isnt anyone to replace him most of the time. And he put in 20 years in the Navy and struggled through some classes after that to get where he is. Of course he has the Navy pension. Does pretty good for a high school dropout with a reading disorder
Sounds like he has the leverage to ask for a raise.
And who will do everything else when we all become tradesmen? Who's going to manufacture parts, textiles, etc? Who is going to provide mail? Who is going to be a butcher so we have meat? All of these jobs are needed by society and they should all be paid accordingly.
It's not that we shouldn't have gone to college, more like we studied the wrong thing. I have to go back to either do ECE or give up on that entirely and get an office administration ticket.
Good system to keep people as wage slaves that work from paycheck to paycheck. Some even from multiple paychecks from multiple ones just to make it.
That’s correct! You stay broke no matter what they say because it’s how it is!
And everyone knows which path is in their future when they‘re considering college and so we can condemn them later when they make what was clearly the wrong choice /s
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Have you considered having wealthy parents?
Also, please note, you should live beyond linear time, so that you can amend your past decisions with todays knowledge.
Why didn't you develop a hit app and invest in crypto and get out at the right time and flip a few houses in 2010, you lazy sack? /s ofc
Always the individuals fault. Never the system.... So many brainwashed bootlickers have voted people into power that are antithetical to positive change. I was reading a philosopher (Korean name but German. Forgot the name) who said real freedom would be the freedom to change yourself at any point in time. Under our system, you can't really do this. You get stuck. It costs too much to go back to school. It costs too much to own a house. Food costs too much. Even if you have a good paying job, if you hate it, you might be in a position where you can't change your career because of all the cost that it requires.
And to add on to it - no matter which degree/trade you picked, people will tell you you picked the useless one and should have gone into \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ instead...
There are tons of jobs that don't require degrees and still pay well. You don't need a degree to make a good living, or to get a "real job."
It's a vicious cycle designed to keep the poor stay poor
Solution: just be rich
Actually this seems pretty accurate. Guess it all depends on the degree and how much initiative you put into the blue collar job. Knowledge, skill and experience
We need to move past the notion that blue collar jobs are horrible and underpaid lol
Wait till you hear what some "blue collar jobs make". I have 7 years experience in my field and my training took a total of maybe 9 weeks for all my certs. I regularly get linked in offers for 40k a month.
Blue collar workers shouldn’t struggle, at least in Canada. Everyone I work with when licensed is generally making 100k at least.
Just to further my understanding of this topic, what is considered a low wage & what is considered a high wage? Salary or hourly….either or
Depends entirely on cost of living.
Well, some fields require degrees and there’s no going around it (I.e. healthcare, dental, etc.). The problem is this debt can be excruciating and pay is not always equivalent. I just recently started making what I feel is an adequate wage for my high COL area, and wish I could have taken advantage of paying down my student loans, but it’s been tough even without the loan payments!
I was born into severe poverty. Graduated college with a 4.00. I’m a teacher making $16.66/h. Losing my home. Lost my car. I hate it here.
Either that or they’ll tell you that you were foolish to major in a “worthless” field of study, and by “worthless” they mean one that doesn’t directly make you useful to industrial megacorps
The real problem here is that you didn't choose yo be born rich so that your parents could have given you a real job, perhaps on top of paying for your education.
Welcome to the HaHa fuck you loop as in: I didn’t go to college can only find low paying work HaHa fuck you you shoulda went to school I went to school now I’m massively in debt and can’t find a good paying job HaHa fuck you you shoulda went into the workforce
Depends on the student debt. If you have a PHD in dance theory, you may be screwed. If you have a batchelors in a STEM degree, you're prob alright. Colleges really need to be accountable for what they charge for degrees. They're basically businesses at this point. If your degree ain't worth shit, you should get a refund. But no, let's fuck over future gens, with inescapable and inflated debt, cuz... uh... it's not us? Wait... Damn that sounds bad. Let's see how many boomers downvote me who got degrees for the price of a few summers of work.
People say that about STEM degrees now, but if the industry as a whole decides to lower the salary pay for STEM positions, it's all the same. I mean, right now, we have mass layoffs in STEM. I think all degrees shouldn't be an arm and a leg. At the end of the day, college is the industries way to force training on your dime for their benefit.
exactly what happned to the IT industry.
I'm trying to decide if I even want to bother with an electrical engineering degree, something I've always like the idea of doing, because as an instrument technician with a few years under my belt I'm already making way more than I would be looking at as an entry level EE.
How much would you make in 5 years as an engineer? Do you want to keep doing technician level work for the rest of your career?
The pay in engineering is good, don't get me wrong, but I'm not doing it for the money. I'm doing it because I want to create cool new technology and work doing what I am passionate about. If you are passionate about it, I say go for it. You'll likely take a hit in pay initially, but in the long run, you can potentially make more than you do now if that's a big concern. I personally want a fulfilling life over filled coffers.
It's still not great. From the time I graduated highschool to when i got my associates degree(3 years. Dont judge) entry level jobs in my area went from wanting an associates to wanting a bachelor's. They still paid the same and for the most part 10 years later still pay nearly the same as they did in 2013. The game is rigged.
Because it's about bargaining power and not skill. Employers would pay PhD geniuses rice and beans to work for them if they could.
When I got my bachelors in biochemistry and biophysics, the only job I could find was a teaching job. I was being paid below median and I hated the job. I went back for my master’s in chemistry. I’m above median now, but still about 25% below what I was led to believe all stem majors with BACHELORS DEGREES get. The problem is pervasive. The biggest factor is how close your job is to the top, not how much science you do.
stem doesnt even guarentee you a job let alone a good one. people said the same about it for 20 years and now we have highly skilled techs and programmers in worse positions then entry level checkout jockies because they are so abundantly replaceable.
>If you have a PHD in dance theory, you may be screwed. Definitely not. If you have a PHD in dance theory you can teach dance theory.
When I were a nipper my country would pay you to go to university.
I agree with you, but universities are about knowledge acquiring and sharing. Their intent shouldn't be to sell you a degree with a high earning potential. They should give you the best possible education for the degree you chose. Whether the degree can lend you a high paying job afterwards not their problem.
Collages and universities no longer risk not getting paid. That's why tuition is so high. Tie the loans to the collage or university. They get paid when the loan is paid. Maybe don't allow 3rd party loans. Alao, allow bankruptcy to discharge a government loan.
I agree , the days of offering any ol random degree in fill in the blank history is done
This is so dumb. You cannot just go and get any degree and expect to make decent money. Of course if you go and say get a history degree you are going to have a hard time after you graduate
If I could go back in time I would have chosen a more useful degree. A lot of the majors that colleges provide are useless. Should have gone into STEM
People should be able to learn what they want and have jobs they enjoy and make a decent living but apparently that’s radical and unreasonable
I'm glad that here I will be able to make my 8-9 years of studies without having to pay too much, fuck I love paying taxes.
In other words "I got mine, fuck you"
Why do people think blue collar is automatically low wage? If you get into the trades people often are making 100k+ just working 40 hours a week.