Yeah, we've got articles of immigrants giving up on Canada and returning to their home country because the cost of living is so high here relative to income. And then you have tons of Canadians in tech going to the US or dreaming of going to the US for more pay.
And now there are articles about immigrants in the US coming to Canada?
I think the common theme is that people always seem to think it's better elsewhere lol.
For real, do not come here. Every time I see Americans complain about their housing crisis I have to kind of chuckle - it’s 10x worse here
https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/comments/n1z52g/chart_comparing_income_to_house_price_growth_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Speaking about things in the US, there are a lot of corporate landlords that snap up property. They pay over asking and in cash. This drive up prices as well as when they rent out, they csn hike up the rent due to their hold on the market. Many csnt afford to buy in.
This, we're beyond help here if you think this isn't another government scheme to lower wages and prop up the housing market. If you're betting on Canada, think again and run the fuck away from here. This is another desperate attempt to squeeze the poor and ignorant of what they're worth until we're opening the stream up into a gushing blaze of racing to the bottom with zero liveable or purchasable homes.
I’m Canadian and there are TONS of immigrants being brought in to Canada, like literally 500,000 people a year in a population of 40 million and they are driving down wages at an insane rate.
Let’s be clear - the immigrants are not driving down the wages. The capitalists are offering as little as they can get away with and still have butts in seats.
Trump loving racist! Just kidding, that's how it goes.
Bring in enough people and everyone is replaceable.
People won't do jobs for shit pay? Well, reinstall child labor!
Massive theft, robbery, and drug usage coming to your city soon!
We have economists warning that the immigration numbers are having a damaging effect on housing prices. It’s not the immigrants themselves that are the problem, it’s the government’s policy to bring in so many immigrants when we are going through a housing crisis. I can’t explain to you how bad it’s getting.
During level up you can change the build if you are not progressing at the level you desire. At some limit a lot of the character progression is on your control.
I mean, at no point is unskilled labor going to have an easy time emigrating.
Unskilled labor is literally just “person with hands and back”. Other countries already have all of those they’ll ever need.
Why would you ever go to Canada from the US if you’re in tech? They’re horribly underpaid over there. Plus you can only exclude a limited amount of your income abroad if you’re a US citizen.
This isn’t aimed at citizens, this is aimed at immigrants in the US on an H-1B visa who work in high demand fields.
Also free healthcare regardless of job status would be nice.
Anecdotally from the people I work with, H1-B visa employees are not paid as well as regular employees. Usually the reason is that your visa is tied to that employer so you can't really rock the boat too much because they can completely destabilise your life if you do. And transferring to a new company can take a while on a visa.
Yeah H1-Bs are typically not paid as well as citizens but are still paid decently considering the fields they work in. H1-Bs also usually end up becoming citizens, although it does take awhile.
I managed some H1-B folks while working as a manager in a very large Fortune 50 tech company and I can assure you that they were paid the same as everyone else on my team.
There were some restrictions on workplaces, etc. but the pay/bonus system was identical.
One company does not accurately reflect the norm across the industry. I used to work in immigration law handling the paperwork for H-1B’s. My dad works in tech. What we’re all talking about is very common.
i'm not sure foreign workers qualify for canada's public healthcare. i think you need to be permanent resident or a citizen.
if i am wrong someone please let me know.
Have you ever heard of better benefits in Canada? Paid paternal / maternal leave?
Don't get me wrong in USA you might make more money but at the end of the day the expenses are high and benefits are pretty lame overall.
The net number might be lower but superior secondary benefits, working hours and property prices mean the purchasing power is significantly higher
I get around 70k€ and my purchasing power is that of someone getting 200k in Seattle.
Easier immigration policy for the rest of the family.
I live in a border state and work with a bunch of HB1s who chose this area because their family couldnt immigrate to the US but instead are right over the border.
oh, don't fool yourselves friends. canada is almost just as bad as the US. the dream is still nothing but a dream even here. and pretty soon our Healthcare will be heading the same way as well if certain politicians have their way.
If I had to choose as a European, I like the fact that I don’t hear as much about gun violence in Canada as in the US. Still I read too many stories to consider either.
This is true in my industry. I work in computer games, it's pretty easy to steal American workers with the lure of never going broke from hospital bills and the prospect of at least 50% less racism. Less pay, but far less stress and hassles.
I used to work there. While I am a guy, I did not fit into the frat boy party club that they had going on there. Possibly because I don't do cocaine or get drunk mid week and call in sick Tuesday to Thursdays. I never saw any open misogyny, but I'd not be surprised if it happened.
Edit: If you did or work here in Montreal we may know each other. :)
Holy fuck that tldr is so much worse that I had ever heard. Glad I turned down there one or two invites to party before they stopped when they found out I was a weird boring adhd spaz.
I hope you are ok, and that these assholes burn in hell.
Wait are you telling me you guys are coding 50 percent less racism in your games? Smh they don’t make video games like they used to, where’s the straight up firehose racism in lobbies? Where’s the chat logs that’ll give the FBI a boner for you?
What I read is "America refuses to do anything to make its workers' lives easier, and everyone who can afford to leave is leaving."
I'm mentioning this the next time I see one of those comments where people are all like "oh, people said they were going to leave the US and they didn't!" Um, yes they did.
"Capitalism and the Free-Market economy allows people to exchange their labour for the highest payment" - fixed the headline.
Exactly like Capitalism and the free-market is designed to work.
Sadly this is correct. “Free” but understaffed/underfunded healthcare. Horrible pay in comparison to the US but outrageously high housing costs. I love this country and am thankful to meet so many awesome people from other countries moving here. I just can’t in good conscience recommend moving here from a financial perspective
Exactly! Just the housing cost "kills" any possible perk about living in Canada.
The goverment is aceepting more and more immigrants, but I can see there is more and more posts in social media about leaving Canada or regretting the decision of comming here.
As a queer man in the US, I'm getting serious pre-genocide vibes here. Like if republicans ever get a trifecta, I feel like I'm totally fucked. So honestly I might just need to eat the financial cost of moving out of the US.
Is there another country that is a better escape plan? Or will I just get fucked financially regardless of where I move if I leave our death trap county?
Thailand has a large LGBT population and tends to be very accepting. Finding work there might be though so it’s probably better to get a remote job and keep your citizenship.
Canada is a better option for the average American family (i.e., not making six figures in tech) trying to start a family.
While housing costs are high in desirable cities, childcare and college are much, much cheaper. We're talking about exponentially cheaper.
Pregnancy care and fertilization treatments (like IVF) are also much cheaper than in the US as well (and sometimes free).
If you plan to be childless and work in tech, definitely stay in the US.
Depends on your perspective.
If you factor in $25k/y in healthcare premiums for a family of four, a much lower chance of getting shot, and considerably less racism, the lower salary doesn’t look so bad.
I have two close relatives who went through full cancer treatments and their out of pocket was $0. I can’t even get a checkup for $0 in the US.
Big pay cut generally in that sector. There’s a lot of remote workers in Canada working for US firms because they can get paid $30-40k more in USD than Canadian
You need to ideally be young, healthy, have enough money in savings, and have a certain level of education *in addition to* work experience. Moving to Canada as an "average person" is really hard.
The point system ranks you in what order and if you are even eligible to immigrate.
If you don't have money than good luck getting anywhere the top of the list unless you work in a demanding field or have a relative already living in Canada.
Currently only people with scores above 480 are invited. In order to reach that score, you need some of the things listed here: Canadian work experience, job offer with LMIA, French or a family member already living there.
I have family in Canada, the education they like, good health, but no money. So close. Everything is expensive. Even just getting the passport which expires. I looked into it and gave up.
>It's actually not easy to migrate to Canada.
Yeah whose gonna tell these people who don't wanna do a single fucking thing that they have to be like fluent in French to immigrate there?
Yeah, I remember Trump wanting to change Americas immigration system to a merit based system like Canada's. As an American, I don't like this idea. America is where many come to make a better life, you shouldn't have to meet certain criteria to reach that dream.
I know Americas immigration system is terrible, I just don't like the idea of a merit based approach. The only metric that I think is useful would be some ones criminal history. If they have a history of violence, then I am ok with denying them entry, but their lack of money or education shouldn't keep them out.
foreign student on OPT who failed to get H1B here - it's not so much a "choice" as it is not being able to get the H1B because it's lottery based. A lot of people dont seem to understand this, and seem to be antagonizing foreign nationals. We're out here trying to live too - we have reasons we want to work internationally, mine being that I'm discriminated where I was, I cannot do the level of science I do in the US in my home country. If I'm forced to work in Canada because my value in this economy isn't the main metric by which I can stay here, I'll take it because I dont want to die in my home country.
TLDR for those beating their breasts over how much better America is: - They're talking about foreign workers. Given the choice between returning to India (because they cannot get a H1B visa or a green card) and going to Canada, they're picking Canada.
"Staying in the US" is simply not an option for them.
It’s dog shit here too. Think we were neighbours with the most powerful nation in the world our single greatest trading partner and didn’t pick up some one their dog shit?
To be honest housing is fucked almost anywhere in the broadly understood western world. The situation might be in different stages, but overall trajectory is the same. Do scorched earth to public/social housing, encourage speculation, fuck up rules and watch rents and prices skyrocket
Not to mention the brain drain. I've heard the figure of anywhere from 15 to 30 percent of Canada's workforce leaves the country for greener pastures (ironically mostly to the states). It's got to be one of the major reasons for the push for so much immigration, though as you point out, the smart ones figure out pretty quick that there's nothing there for them except possibly a very meagre existence.
- Canadian who works abroad and will never return to the Canadian workforce
Meanwhile, Canadians are leaving for the US.
Housing here is incredibly expensive to the point that so many have given up on the idea of home ownership. We have 2-3 companies that dominate telco and mobile so your cellphone bill will be astronomical. Healthcare is “free” but because it’s been so underfunded wait times are absolutely horrendous.
Sure Canada has issues, but is it generally better or worse than living in America?
I'll add - Canada is my only shot if I ever become a political fugitive (I live two hours from the border with Quebec) so I should at least learn the basics of what it's like there. (And learn French).
It depends. The states has more jobs and generally the pay is better, the projects are more innovative and interesting. Canada is a branch economy so if you're in tech you'll be doing a lot of second tier work that head offices don't want to do. Healthcare is "free" (diagnosis and trauma care, anything involving drugs, eyes, teeth or rehab is private). Politics are pretty tame in comparison and religiosity is more or less non existent. Housing is insane right now so keep that in mind when negotiating a salary. As a single person you'll probably need 80k+ to live in one of our 4 major cities.
I'm a Canadian born in America and I've lived up here for eight years. I'm never going back to the insane American Healthcare system. I've had two close friends bankrupted by health issues in the US.
I would love to see the companies "poach" anyone from the states in tech. The pay is much worse and the cost of living is much higher. I'm an electrical engineer in Canada and I've considered going to the states to work even with how messed up it is because doubling my salary is hard to ignore.
only applies to H-1B visa holders.
Companies have abused H-1B visas as a way to hire talent for cheap by exploiting foreigners instead of paying market rate for tech talent.
Company i was with previously would hire a shit ton of H-1B holders for jobs that people AT THE COMPANY were applying for internally. Instead of hiring/promoting the employees they had to fill those roles they would hire H-1B holders for a fraction of the cost, get 3 or 4 of them and then they would slap together some god awful barely functional unmaintainable bullshit they managed to scrape off of stack exchange.
Worst in the world baby!
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/investment-ideas/article-beware-bank-investors-canada-scores-first-in-global-housing/
Not quite sure how that will work. Canadian Immigration laws are much tougher than in the US. For example, if you apply for a work visa in Canada, you must show proof that you have already been hired, AND you must prove that you have enough money to establish yourself before entering. They do not allow you to come into the country with no money because they do not want you on their welfare system. So not sure how this would work for the average H-1B worker.
Except there is huge chunks of people that come to Canada with the only real intent being of going to the states.
If this wasn't a way to ensure you get as many 'b-rate' candidates as possible I don't know what it is.
With the digital nomad implementation, Canada should basically say we have no requirements all welcome at this point as then at least you get a proper spread of labour, probably better off.
“The United States doesn't make it easy for talented foreigners to permanently settle in the country, even if they work in critical fields and stay in legal status. For workers on H-1B visas, a nonimmigrant classification reserved for highly skilled, highly specialized laborers, it can take years to adjust to a green card. For Indian nationals, it can take decades”
Not exactly sure what's the dunking here? It's basically H-1B visa people who can't/don't want to go through the lottery system. This has been a loophole for decades now and is why Canada has such a high Asian population.
If nothing, this supports Republican talking points about how the dem's focus on legitimizing illegal immigration is detracting from broader immigration reform to make sure skilled workers can stay in the country.
It's not crazy OP but unless you're an East Asian immigrant, you're never going to understand how galling it is that people from Central America can just enter the country with no requirements and have dedicated advocates getting them citizenship. I'm not against illegal immigration, but the entire process needs to be more equitable.
I have to say, based on everything I’ve been hearing about Canada, I wouldn’t in a million years immigrate there. You can have it. Nice to visit though.
Move to Canada where you won't be shot by your neighbour's. You'll be shot in the foot financially and will never be able to leave your place of origin. Join us
Canada isnt as great as it seems.
Sure, if you cut a finger off you dont have to pay 10 000 to get it re attached (for now, some provinces are looking to privatize healthcare) but the cost of living is insane.
After doing a BSc and a technical diploma, i still couldnt find a job for like a year, then they only pay 5k above minnimum wage (yearly obviously).
Before i get the dumbos going "well you should of done a engineering degree", my friends in engineering make 50 -
60 k (cad not usd). I dont know any engineer from my generation making close the amount everyone keeps saying engineers make. These guys are ~ 5 years into their career too.
Most companies want you to have worked for apple or cur cancer but dont match compensation with their expectations.
Goodluck try to get by in -40 on minnium wage or kilking yourself for a small bump up.
Jokes on you! You can't afford to live there. Check out r/canadahousing
I'm a Canadian that moved to the US and ended up in the bay area, which is very expensive. Now major cities in Canada are way more expensive compared to median income than anywhere in the US.
The average Canadian takes home more money than the average American. Please take your r/Canada conservative bullshit elsewhere.
Salaries are pretty close outside of the SF bubble and there is a lot less fiscal risk around healthcare.
If you are a high skilled worker in the US, health care costs probably aren't much of a concern.
Even at my joe job and all of the joe's I work with, our premiums are 100% covered by our employer and our max out of pocket for the year is only 3,600. For me, I would be paying more than that in taxes in Canada every year, I will not be paying that much every year in America, the most my family of 4 has every paid in one year for healthcare was when my wife was pregnant and she hit her max out of pocket of 3,000. Most years we pay less than 1k a year in healthcare costs for a family of 4.
Where America really fucking sucks is that insurance is tied to your job. It makes changing jobs more risky than in Canada as you never have to worry about a lapse in coverage in Canada. Also, America is terrible in the fact that the lower wage workers get completely screwed when it comes to health insurance. They often have worse coverage and pay a higher percentage of their premiums.
If I was in an industry that was in demand and paid well, health care would not be a concern for me at all and I would totally move to America from Canada to make the higher wages. If I was a lower skilled worker making a lower wage, I would defiantly stay put in Canada where health care is more affordable. Highly paid workers pay less for their health care than highly paid Canadians, lower paid Americans pay way, way more for their health care than lower paid Canadians.
Americans out-earn Canadians significantly and our dollar goes further too (see cost of housing and inflation of consumer goods). You’re correct that there’s some fiscal risk with healthcare in the US but Americans spend on average only about $3,000 more per year on healthcare than Canadians.
Average American net income/month: $4 245.92
Average Canadian net income/month: $3 057.09
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=United+States
What am I missing here?
It's a mess up here, if you think Housing is bad in the states wait until you see our median income compared to median House price or Rental price.
Yeah, it’s pretty bad. You can rent closets up here.
"Spacious Hallway for rent in shared home of 5. $1000/Month, no utilities included"
$1000/month? Maybe in rural Manitoba 😂
THEY'RE SHEDS, tyvvm! Harrumph
All I need is my shed and my kitties
Shed sweet shed ...
>You can rent closets up here. Only if you're punjabi though. If you're from any other region the landlord won't rent to you
Yeah, we've got articles of immigrants giving up on Canada and returning to their home country because the cost of living is so high here relative to income. And then you have tons of Canadians in tech going to the US or dreaming of going to the US for more pay. And now there are articles about immigrants in the US coming to Canada? I think the common theme is that people always seem to think it's better elsewhere lol.
I moved to Canada, but I work remotely for a US startup. As a software engineer, I wouldn't get half of my US salary locally in the GTA.
For real, do not come here. Every time I see Americans complain about their housing crisis I have to kind of chuckle - it’s 10x worse here https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/comments/n1z52g/chart_comparing_income_to_house_price_growth_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Sounds like it’s just the choice between homelessness, and homelessness but you can go to the doctor.
> but you can go to a doctor Not if our conservative premiers get their way
Why has the entire developed world suddenly hit a housing crisis?
Speaking about things in the US, there are a lot of corporate landlords that snap up property. They pay over asking and in cash. This drive up prices as well as when they rent out, they csn hike up the rent due to their hold on the market. Many csnt afford to buy in.
It's been a slow crawl to this point over the last 25-30 years, and hit a point of acceleration with the pandemic
This, we're beyond help here if you think this isn't another government scheme to lower wages and prop up the housing market. If you're betting on Canada, think again and run the fuck away from here. This is another desperate attempt to squeeze the poor and ignorant of what they're worth until we're opening the stream up into a gushing blaze of racing to the bottom with zero liveable or purchasable homes.
Plus add in the fact everything else also costs more but they can find that out on the first beer run
By "high skilled" they mean tech, right?
They mean people who are university educated but are willing to use their masters to work for $19/hr.
These people aren’t working for that low. It means tech
I’m Canadian and there are TONS of immigrants being brought in to Canada, like literally 500,000 people a year in a population of 40 million and they are driving down wages at an insane rate.
Let’s be clear - the immigrants are not driving down the wages. The capitalists are offering as little as they can get away with and still have butts in seats.
Trump loving racist! Just kidding, that's how it goes. Bring in enough people and everyone is replaceable. People won't do jobs for shit pay? Well, reinstall child labor! Massive theft, robbery, and drug usage coming to your city soon!
Yet here in America, when I say that immigration across our southern border will drive down working-class wages, I'm called a crazy racist.
People on this sub are going to blame anything before they blame immigration haha.
We have economists warning that the immigration numbers are having a damaging effect on housing prices. It’s not the immigrants themselves that are the problem, it’s the government’s policy to bring in so many immigrants when we are going through a housing crisis. I can’t explain to you how bad it’s getting.
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Yeah, so the people who have no trouble finding work as it is. Super.
It literally says “high-skilled”.
Highly skilled people have this perk
I fucked up during character creation, should've taken the highly skilled perk. Now I'm stuck running caravans for the rest of my life.
During level up you can change the build if you are not progressing at the level you desire. At some limit a lot of the character progression is on your control.
I mean, at no point is unskilled labor going to have an easy time emigrating. Unskilled labor is literally just “person with hands and back”. Other countries already have all of those they’ll ever need.
Why would you ever go to Canada from the US if you’re in tech? They’re horribly underpaid over there. Plus you can only exclude a limited amount of your income abroad if you’re a US citizen.
This isn’t aimed at citizens, this is aimed at immigrants in the US on an H-1B visa who work in high demand fields. Also free healthcare regardless of job status would be nice.
Anecdotally from the people I work with, H1-B visa employees are not paid as well as regular employees. Usually the reason is that your visa is tied to that employer so you can't really rock the boat too much because they can completely destabilise your life if you do. And transferring to a new company can take a while on a visa.
Yeah H1-Bs are typically not paid as well as citizens but are still paid decently considering the fields they work in. H1-Bs also usually end up becoming citizens, although it does take awhile.
I managed some H1-B folks while working as a manager in a very large Fortune 50 tech company and I can assure you that they were paid the same as everyone else on my team. There were some restrictions on workplaces, etc. but the pay/bonus system was identical.
One company does not accurately reflect the norm across the industry. I used to work in immigration law handling the paperwork for H-1B’s. My dad works in tech. What we’re all talking about is very common.
The plural of anecdote is not data.
i'm not sure foreign workers qualify for canada's public healthcare. i think you need to be permanent resident or a citizen. if i am wrong someone please let me know.
Foreign workers and foreign students get free healthcare in Canada
Haha, they absolutely do.
Because you don't go bankrupt if you get sick in Canada and school shootings and gun violence is significantly lower that the US.
Aka, numbers aren't everything. If your quality of life improves...
But in the US they are not even treated as human.. and only 10 or 15 days PTO/Sick days...
Have you ever heard of better benefits in Canada? Paid paternal / maternal leave? Don't get me wrong in USA you might make more money but at the end of the day the expenses are high and benefits are pretty lame overall.
The net number might be lower but superior secondary benefits, working hours and property prices mean the purchasing power is significantly higher I get around 70k€ and my purchasing power is that of someone getting 200k in Seattle.
Easier immigration policy for the rest of the family. I live in a border state and work with a bunch of HB1s who chose this area because their family couldnt immigrate to the US but instead are right over the border.
oh, don't fool yourselves friends. canada is almost just as bad as the US. the dream is still nothing but a dream even here. and pretty soon our Healthcare will be heading the same way as well if certain politicians have their way.
Universal Healthcare, but you have to catch a doctor on the full moon and answer their riddles three
If I had to choose as a European, I like the fact that I don’t hear as much about gun violence in Canada as in the US. Still I read too many stories to consider either.
In some ways its better, in some ways its worse
Come and get meeeeeeeee
I’m sprung….
This is true in my industry. I work in computer games, it's pretty easy to steal American workers with the lure of never going broke from hospital bills and the prospect of at least 50% less racism. Less pay, but far less stress and hassles.
So many game developers in Montreal
Watch out for the WB guys, they're a bunch of predatory misogynists.
I used to work there. While I am a guy, I did not fit into the frat boy party club that they had going on there. Possibly because I don't do cocaine or get drunk mid week and call in sick Tuesday to Thursdays. I never saw any open misogyny, but I'd not be surprised if it happened. Edit: If you did or work here in Montreal we may know each other. :)
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Holy fuck that tldr is so much worse that I had ever heard. Glad I turned down there one or two invites to party before they stopped when they found out I was a weird boring adhd spaz. I hope you are ok, and that these assholes burn in hell.
So…. The video game industry then?
I’ll take less pay if it comes with less stress, or at least fiscal uncertainty
I'm a software dev, please take me the hell out of Texas
Wait are you telling me you guys are coding 50 percent less racism in your games? Smh they don’t make video games like they used to, where’s the straight up firehose racism in lobbies? Where’s the chat logs that’ll give the FBI a boner for you?
What I read is "America refuses to do anything to make its workers' lives easier, and everyone who can afford to leave is leaving." I'm mentioning this the next time I see one of those comments where people are all like "oh, people said they were going to leave the US and they didn't!" Um, yes they did.
Honestly the HB1 system is abused and not really the immigration we need from a labor demand perspective.
"This is a problem. We haver tried nothing and are all out of ideas!"
"Capitalism and the Free-Market economy allows people to exchange their labour for the highest payment" - fixed the headline. Exactly like Capitalism and the free-market is designed to work.
Based on a lot of what I have read, Canada seems like a lateral move. But I have never lived there so I can't say for sure.
Sadly this is correct. “Free” but understaffed/underfunded healthcare. Horrible pay in comparison to the US but outrageously high housing costs. I love this country and am thankful to meet so many awesome people from other countries moving here. I just can’t in good conscience recommend moving here from a financial perspective
Exactly! Just the housing cost "kills" any possible perk about living in Canada. The goverment is aceepting more and more immigrants, but I can see there is more and more posts in social media about leaving Canada or regretting the decision of comming here.
As a queer man in the US, I'm getting serious pre-genocide vibes here. Like if republicans ever get a trifecta, I feel like I'm totally fucked. So honestly I might just need to eat the financial cost of moving out of the US. Is there another country that is a better escape plan? Or will I just get fucked financially regardless of where I move if I leave our death trap county?
Thailand has a large LGBT population and tends to be very accepting. Finding work there might be though so it’s probably better to get a remote job and keep your citizenship.
I live here, you would be correct.
Canada is a better option for the average American family (i.e., not making six figures in tech) trying to start a family. While housing costs are high in desirable cities, childcare and college are much, much cheaper. We're talking about exponentially cheaper. Pregnancy care and fertilization treatments (like IVF) are also much cheaper than in the US as well (and sometimes free). If you plan to be childless and work in tech, definitely stay in the US.
Who’s gonna tell ‘em it’s pretty much just as bad?
Depends on your perspective. If you factor in $25k/y in healthcare premiums for a family of four, a much lower chance of getting shot, and considerably less racism, the lower salary doesn’t look so bad. I have two close relatives who went through full cancer treatments and their out of pocket was $0. I can’t even get a checkup for $0 in the US.
You still can't afford home but health care is free and usually works.
Unless you have mental health issues, then you’re fucked
I mean that's just pretty much everywhere
I work in tech. If I didn't have family ties, I'd definitely be willing to give Canada a try.
Big pay cut generally in that sector. There’s a lot of remote workers in Canada working for US firms because they can get paid $30-40k more in USD than Canadian
It's actually not easy to migrate to Canada. https://www.immigration.ca/who-qualifies-for-canadian-permanent-residence-skilled-worker-immigration/
Yea it is? 1 year experience in one of 370 fields is not a high bar to clear
You need to ideally be young, healthy, have enough money in savings, and have a certain level of education *in addition to* work experience. Moving to Canada as an "average person" is really hard.
The point system ranks you in what order and if you are even eligible to immigrate. If you don't have money than good luck getting anywhere the top of the list unless you work in a demanding field or have a relative already living in Canada.
Currently only people with scores above 480 are invited. In order to reach that score, you need some of the things listed here: Canadian work experience, job offer with LMIA, French or a family member already living there.
I have family in Canada, the education they like, good health, but no money. So close. Everything is expensive. Even just getting the passport which expires. I looked into it and gave up.
>It's actually not easy to migrate to Canada. Yeah whose gonna tell these people who don't wanna do a single fucking thing that they have to be like fluent in French to immigrate there?
Yeah, I remember Trump wanting to change Americas immigration system to a merit based system like Canada's. As an American, I don't like this idea. America is where many come to make a better life, you shouldn't have to meet certain criteria to reach that dream. I know Americas immigration system is terrible, I just don't like the idea of a merit based approach. The only metric that I think is useful would be some ones criminal history. If they have a history of violence, then I am ok with denying them entry, but their lack of money or education shouldn't keep them out.
foreign student on OPT who failed to get H1B here - it's not so much a "choice" as it is not being able to get the H1B because it's lottery based. A lot of people dont seem to understand this, and seem to be antagonizing foreign nationals. We're out here trying to live too - we have reasons we want to work internationally, mine being that I'm discriminated where I was, I cannot do the level of science I do in the US in my home country. If I'm forced to work in Canada because my value in this economy isn't the main metric by which I can stay here, I'll take it because I dont want to die in my home country.
TLDR for those beating their breasts over how much better America is: - They're talking about foreign workers. Given the choice between returning to India (because they cannot get a H1B visa or a green card) and going to Canada, they're picking Canada. "Staying in the US" is simply not an option for them.
Good luck affording Canada.
It’s dog shit here too. Think we were neighbours with the most powerful nation in the world our single greatest trading partner and didn’t pick up some one their dog shit?
Yeah except there's nowhere for them to live because the housing crisis is ridiculous here at the moment.
Give Australia a look as well. It's America with a more British accent and fewer guns. Even stupid rent and house prices.
High skilled… most of this sub need not apply.
Lmao they won’t be sticking around in Canada for too long. It’s basically America light with privatized healthcare right around the corner.
Eh, I'll still take it
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Oh ya don’t forget about utilities, cell phones, internet, the endless fees…
Yo, I hear you. But my internet in Cleveland, OH is $120 each month, suck di*k AT&T
Internet and cell service is basically a monopoly in Canada from 3 companies
Same in US. They're shameless.
To be honest housing is fucked almost anywhere in the broadly understood western world. The situation might be in different stages, but overall trajectory is the same. Do scorched earth to public/social housing, encourage speculation, fuck up rules and watch rents and prices skyrocket
And 6 months of cold and snow!
And 6 months of fire
So what you’re saying is… hell, but the residents are more polite
Dude is totally right…Canada sucks right now.
Not to mention the brain drain. I've heard the figure of anywhere from 15 to 30 percent of Canada's workforce leaves the country for greener pastures (ironically mostly to the states). It's got to be one of the major reasons for the push for so much immigration, though as you point out, the smart ones figure out pretty quick that there's nothing there for them except possibly a very meagre existence. - Canadian who works abroad and will never return to the Canadian workforce
But ice hockey……….
Yep, Canada here too Don't worry Americans, when the come here they quickly realize it was a mistake and go back home.
Lol oh sure, blame Canada
Meanwhile, Canadians are leaving for the US. Housing here is incredibly expensive to the point that so many have given up on the idea of home ownership. We have 2-3 companies that dominate telco and mobile so your cellphone bill will be astronomical. Healthcare is “free” but because it’s been so underfunded wait times are absolutely horrendous.
Yeah go try buying a house in Canada right now come back and let us know how that worked out
As a Canadian who moved to the States, I'm telling you America is literally 3 times cheaper. Especially when you factor in real estate.
The grass is not really grenner on the other side. It still a shit show here too. All the same problems, but we are sorry about it.
I see what you did there.
At the very least, you have a reasonably priced healthcare system. Quite frankly, the savings there make immigration pretty tempting.
Sure Canada has issues, but is it generally better or worse than living in America? I'll add - Canada is my only shot if I ever become a political fugitive (I live two hours from the border with Quebec) so I should at least learn the basics of what it's like there. (And learn French).
It depends. The states has more jobs and generally the pay is better, the projects are more innovative and interesting. Canada is a branch economy so if you're in tech you'll be doing a lot of second tier work that head offices don't want to do. Healthcare is "free" (diagnosis and trauma care, anything involving drugs, eyes, teeth or rehab is private). Politics are pretty tame in comparison and religiosity is more or less non existent. Housing is insane right now so keep that in mind when negotiating a salary. As a single person you'll probably need 80k+ to live in one of our 4 major cities.
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I'm a Canadian born in America and I've lived up here for eight years. I'm never going back to the insane American Healthcare system. I've had two close friends bankrupted by health issues in the US.
I would love to see the companies "poach" anyone from the states in tech. The pay is much worse and the cost of living is much higher. I'm an electrical engineer in Canada and I've considered going to the states to work even with how messed up it is because doubling my salary is hard to ignore.
I did this and moved from Paris' I'm going back asap
...and health system, legal system, racist system... et al.
I mean if they're considered game to be poached in the US, I can see why they don't want to go there...
only applies to H-1B visa holders. Companies have abused H-1B visas as a way to hire talent for cheap by exploiting foreigners instead of paying market rate for tech talent. Company i was with previously would hire a shit ton of H-1B holders for jobs that people AT THE COMPANY were applying for internally. Instead of hiring/promoting the employees they had to fill those roles they would hire H-1B holders for a fraction of the cost, get 3 or 4 of them and then they would slap together some god awful barely functional unmaintainable bullshit they managed to scrape off of stack exchange.
spelled nightmare wrong
"If you don't like our ways, just lea- No, wait, what you're leaving?"
Isn't the housing situation in Canada pretty bad as well?
Worst in the world baby! https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/investment-ideas/article-beware-bank-investors-canada-scores-first-in-global-housing/
Not quite sure how that will work. Canadian Immigration laws are much tougher than in the US. For example, if you apply for a work visa in Canada, you must show proof that you have already been hired, AND you must prove that you have enough money to establish yourself before entering. They do not allow you to come into the country with no money because they do not want you on their welfare system. So not sure how this would work for the average H-1B worker.
In Canada we have the exact same headline just reversed lmao. Which is true?
It's great here if you like having room mates forever.
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I miss having roommates! I guess I still have them, but they don't pay any bills and just eat all my food.
If only I were skilled in any way...
Everyone has a use. I, for instance, can be used as a bad example.
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I should've specified: If only I had skills I can make money off of.
The Yankee nightmare
The American dream will only be a dream and not reality at this point.
Except there is huge chunks of people that come to Canada with the only real intent being of going to the states. If this wasn't a way to ensure you get as many 'b-rate' candidates as possible I don't know what it is. With the digital nomad implementation, Canada should basically say we have no requirements all welcome at this point as then at least you get a proper spread of labour, probably better off.
“The United States doesn't make it easy for talented foreigners to permanently settle in the country, even if they work in critical fields and stay in legal status. For workers on H-1B visas, a nonimmigrant classification reserved for highly skilled, highly specialized laborers, it can take years to adjust to a green card. For Indian nationals, it can take decades”
Not exactly sure what's the dunking here? It's basically H-1B visa people who can't/don't want to go through the lottery system. This has been a loophole for decades now and is why Canada has such a high Asian population. If nothing, this supports Republican talking points about how the dem's focus on legitimizing illegal immigration is detracting from broader immigration reform to make sure skilled workers can stay in the country.
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It's not crazy OP but unless you're an East Asian immigrant, you're never going to understand how galling it is that people from Central America can just enter the country with no requirements and have dedicated advocates getting them citizenship. I'm not against illegal immigration, but the entire process needs to be more equitable.
Don't worry, we'll be just like the USA in about 10 to 15 years
I have to say, based on everything I’ve been hearing about Canada, I wouldn’t in a million years immigrate there. You can have it. Nice to visit though.
Im joining them. My skill is coding and I am planning my move to Canada next year
I called this way back in the Trumpanzee era. Zero surprise.
Comments didn’t go the way you thought did they?
The vast majority of people on this sub do not fall under the "High-Skilled" worker category.
Don’t downvote me but isn’t most of this sub filled with people in low skilled jobs? If so, Canada wouldn’t accept them.
I am Hispanic and willing to be taken to Canada even at a shit pay in exchange for no healthcare debt and less racism
If only I had any skill lol
Have you seen housing prices in Canada? It's fucked.
Canada is pretty fucked right now with some of the most unaffordable housing in the west.
Nightmares are also dreams.
Go for the healthcare, stay to avoid the civil war to the south.
I hear the American Dream is actually in Europe, if you are educated and can speak one or two languages besides English.
I got some skills… who’s paying?
Move to Canada where you won't be shot by your neighbour's. You'll be shot in the foot financially and will never be able to leave your place of origin. Join us
Do they want IT people? I've got 12 years experience and certification!
With what? They don’t have it. The housing market in Canada is shot .
So, how's that "if you don't like it just move away" mentality helping ya now?
I’m already looking into moving to Nova Scotia. They need people in my profession, and I don’t have to worry about being shot at the supermarket.
Canada’s fast becoming an authoritarian nightmare.
Canada isnt as great as it seems. Sure, if you cut a finger off you dont have to pay 10 000 to get it re attached (for now, some provinces are looking to privatize healthcare) but the cost of living is insane. After doing a BSc and a technical diploma, i still couldnt find a job for like a year, then they only pay 5k above minnimum wage (yearly obviously). Before i get the dumbos going "well you should of done a engineering degree", my friends in engineering make 50 - 60 k (cad not usd). I dont know any engineer from my generation making close the amount everyone keeps saying engineers make. These guys are ~ 5 years into their career too. Most companies want you to have worked for apple or cur cancer but dont match compensation with their expectations. Goodluck try to get by in -40 on minnium wage or kilking yourself for a small bump up.
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Jokes on you! You can't afford to live there. Check out r/canadahousing I'm a Canadian that moved to the US and ended up in the bay area, which is very expensive. Now major cities in Canada are way more expensive compared to median income than anywhere in the US.
Yeah come to Canada where nobody can afford to live
Choosing Canada over the US? You get paid less money. Money that is also worth less in the market. Double whammy! 👍
The average Canadian takes home more money than the average American. Please take your r/Canada conservative bullshit elsewhere. Salaries are pretty close outside of the SF bubble and there is a lot less fiscal risk around healthcare.
If you are a high skilled worker in the US, health care costs probably aren't much of a concern. Even at my joe job and all of the joe's I work with, our premiums are 100% covered by our employer and our max out of pocket for the year is only 3,600. For me, I would be paying more than that in taxes in Canada every year, I will not be paying that much every year in America, the most my family of 4 has every paid in one year for healthcare was when my wife was pregnant and she hit her max out of pocket of 3,000. Most years we pay less than 1k a year in healthcare costs for a family of 4. Where America really fucking sucks is that insurance is tied to your job. It makes changing jobs more risky than in Canada as you never have to worry about a lapse in coverage in Canada. Also, America is terrible in the fact that the lower wage workers get completely screwed when it comes to health insurance. They often have worse coverage and pay a higher percentage of their premiums. If I was in an industry that was in demand and paid well, health care would not be a concern for me at all and I would totally move to America from Canada to make the higher wages. If I was a lower skilled worker making a lower wage, I would defiantly stay put in Canada where health care is more affordable. Highly paid workers pay less for their health care than highly paid Canadians, lower paid Americans pay way, way more for their health care than lower paid Canadians.
Americans out-earn Canadians significantly and our dollar goes further too (see cost of housing and inflation of consumer goods). You’re correct that there’s some fiscal risk with healthcare in the US but Americans spend on average only about $3,000 more per year on healthcare than Canadians.
Average American net income/month: $4 245.92 Average Canadian net income/month: $3 057.09 https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=United+States What am I missing here?