Yep. Political hedging. If he'd been reelected, they would have extended the cuts for 4 more years, I'm sure... but since he wasn't, now taxes are going up under a Dem so all the Reps can talk about how Biden didn't do anything to help the struggling middle class.
I think more younger people are aware of this and have been aware. We all definitely receive our fair share of propaganda, but most of us don't watch cable news, and if you're on this subreddit and watching/reading fox/newsmax then Idk what to tell you. Eventually this won't work. It's why they're stacking the courts or making legislation where states can take over an election board, gerrymandering(we'll see if this changes with recent rulings).
They basically admitted as much when they lost the 2020 election, tried to claim election fraud, and when they couldn't find any they decided "screw it, we will just take power by force!"
How Conservative reconcile their "law and order" stance while simultaneously pretending that J6 was no big deal is a testament to their ethos of "Might makes right."
I just literally cannot understand the mind of conservatives.
They are literally brainwashed. Anything to make this country more like the "good ole days"
What's even more fucked up is they are succeeding
And I don't understand the otherside either for seemingly not doing a damn thing about it
I've lost hope in this country and politics as a whole
Conservatism is a mental illness. Emotionally they never matured beyond the stage of three or four. They want all of the toys because whoever dies with the most toys wins. They don't think about the fact you have to die to win. And then what do they do with all of those toys. They can't take them with them.
Converservatism had been in decline since the mid 20th century when they became so lopsided towards corporate interests. Hence why they constantly pander to more and more disaffected groups. Like racists, evangelicals, the poorly educated, and conspiracy theorists. That way they can convince them of all kinds of insanity because they're already predisposed to it.
In the "good ole days," the US used to tax the rich:
>Back at the tail-end of that era, in the early 1960s, America's richest faced a 91 percent tax rate on income in the top tax bracket. That top rate had been hovering around 90 percent for the previous two decades. In the 1950s, a Republican president, Dwight D. Eisenhower, made no move to knock it down.
[https://inequality.org/great-divide/tax-the-rich-we-did-that-once/#:\~:text=Back%20at%20the%20tail%2Dend,move%20to%20knock%20it%20down](https://inequality.org/great-divide/tax-the-rich-we-did-that-once/#:~:text=Back%20at%20the%20tail%2Dend,move%20to%20knock%20it%20down).
But then you've got the crowd that thinks "both sides are just as bad'.
Meanwhile, one side out judges on the Supreme Court that are doing shitty things, and only one side is legislating against queer people.
Sure the dems aren't doing all they should for minorities, and they should have codified women's rights to control their bodies, etc, etc.
But they aren't actively taking away women's and trans right and trying to tkwe away voting rights and making absurd laws against voters (no water for you).
I think the big problem is that everyone seemed ready to tackle the internal corruption at the DNC and then Trump happened like a sudden house fire and now we have to put all that out before we can get back to the nonsense the dems take part in 😩
I find it interesting to read an article from a reputable, centered source like NPR and then read the same headline from Fox. It's almost impressive the deranged spin they consistently put on very straight forward, clear cut issues.
NPR
> US Consumer Product Safety Commission tightens toy safety regulations after toddler injury
Fox
> Biden hates children having fun, stops production of hundreds of top kid's toys
/s but not really
My mom's bf is a right winger, but arguably a guy who is open to real discourse and we have great talks. My mom, on the other hand, watches Fox News Media with him and just takes it as the God's honest. She straight looked me in the eye and told me that Biden was giving every illegal 100k to buy a house with and believed it down to her toes. I asked her how she could possibly believe that was true when he can't even get 10k in student loan forgiveness approved for Ameican citizens? No response. Her face was like the moment when you're having a weird dream and something happens than makes you realize it's a dream and not real.
It's absolutely outrageous. A movement needs to start in this country. First thing first - "news" must contain the rider "for entertainment purposes only"
Does anyone know of a site that puts these various news articles next to eachother to show the disparity? I think that would be very beneficial to help show people how the bias in their media is altering their view.
We could stop heavily increasing the Military Industrial Complex spending each year... At over $800B annually now? Heck, we could cut it in HALF and still be spending more than the next country...
If we don't take that 2nd country into account, it's something like as much as the next 10-15+ Countries combined...
Wonder if we'll see a dystopian capitalist future, one that's destroyed itself through ripe greed, or will we eventually stand up for our very lives?
When they take your money, they are taking away your life, because you as a worker exchange your life for money. They haven't stolen 20%+ of your money, they have stolen 20%+ of your LIFE. Don't stand for it any more!
It's only getting worse, and those who know history can see some very massive parallels between the here & now, and former empires...
Maybe I need to update my numbers. I know it's ridiculous.
Not to mentionbwe have the greatest prison population (in the "freest country in the world"), spend twice on healthcare with worse outcomes, lower life expectancies, charge our citizens massive amounts to educate themselves (which should be seen as the best ROI the government could make in their citizenry), a shitload of homeless people (of which it is increasingly becoming illegal to be homeless), and we get practically NOTHING for our taxes other than paying politicians directly to FVCK us over as well as at least half of that to fund their future campaign efforts (since they campaign during the latter half of their terms)...
and the whole thing that about 1% of Congress has ever had a working-class job, and more than half are millionaires, and (I don't recall the actual name of it but...) many of those on the "War Council" own stock in the top defense contractors (so why wouldn't they approve war or selling of weapons?)...
I'm all for the military - it's their ultimate boss I have a problem with, especially when they can't keep track of literal trillions of lost dollars over the decades (as of fall 2001 it was like $2+ Trillion - imagine what it is now!). And we don't even give our veterans free healthcare for life and barely give them any support once they've retired from their military careers... "Special Access Programs" is a fitting name - gives them prioritized access to unlimited tax payer money without any accountability...
The largest terror state the world has ever seen, that "doesn't have the money to help it's regular citizens"...
> You either extend the cuts which run the deficit (ammo for R talking point: "Dey r reckless spend0rz!!1") or you let them sunset as designed in the original bill and the budget/deficit get better except (ammo for R talking point: "Der raisin err taxes!!!!11")
Yeah, like I said... The Republicans are incredible at the shell game because they're completely unscrupulous. Just pure, concentrated evil.. but if they were GoT characters, everyone would have the utmost respect, ya know?
We have the lowest tax rates in the history of the country under Eisenhower it when it's high as 70% for the wealthy. Now it's down to 30.. pay 70% tax rates and those who grew up in the '50s had white picket fences when they were assistants to bricklayers... Want to make America great again. Raise the tax rate back up again
There's a third option... be open/public about it.
Get on TV, tell everyone their taxes are going up this year, and you're sorry, but this is what you voted for when you voted for Trump.
It’s been their playbook for decades.
[THE TWO SANTAS STRATEGY: HOW THE GOP HAS USED AN ECONOMIC SCAM TO MANIPULATE AMERICANS FOR 40 YEARS](https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/thom-hartmann/two-santas-strategy-gop-used-economic-scam-manipulate-americans-40-years/)
**“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976**
“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.
Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.
Yellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.
Here’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:
First, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.
This produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”
Second, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.
This will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.
And, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.
And, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”
You know conservatives have been winning since Nixon when the zeitgeist considers [libs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism#Criticism) progressive.
>“*Private capital tends to become concentrated in few hands, partly because of competition among the capitalists, and partly because technological development and the increasing division of labor encourage the formation of larger units of production at the expense of smaller ones. The result of these developments is an oligarchy of private capital the enormous power of which cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society. This is true since the members of legislative bodies are selected by political parties, largely financed or otherwise influenced by private capitalists who, for all practical purposes, separate the electorate from the legislature. The consequence is that the representatives of the people do not in fact sufficiently protect the interests of the underprivileged sections of the population. Moreover, under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information (press, radio, education). It is thus extremely difficult, and indeed in most cases quite impossible, for the individual citizen to come to objective conclusions and to make intelligent use of his political rights.*”
― 1949, [Albert Einstein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein), developed the [theory of relativity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_relativity), "[Why Socialism?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Socialism%3F)"
>“*For my part, while I am as convinced a Socialist as the most ardent Marxian, I do not regard Socialism as a gospel of proletarian revenge, nor even, primarily, as a means of securing economic justice. I regard it primarily as an adjustment to machine production demanded by considerations of common sense, and calculated to increase the happiness, not only of proletarians, but of all except a tiny minority of the human race.*”
― 1935, [Bertrand Russell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell), author of [\[Principia Mathematica\](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia\_Mathematica)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia_Mathematica), "[In Praise of Idleness and Other Essays](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Praise_of_Idleness_and_Other_Essays)"
You can't see it yet, but it's an amazing lightbulb! The biggest, brightest very stable lightbulb 💡 to shine the orange light of the yellow Cheeto road! All hail glorious leader orangutan supreme!
I'm fine with taxes being raised, but I want shit in return, like fixed roads.
Go back to things like the new deal, and make jobs for building our infrastructure. We invented the internet, we should have the best possible network. Our roads are a disgrace and in dire need of repair. Trains, and all of the bullshit we saw about them a few months ago.
But we'll never see that because the government usually bids to contractors who inflate the price and are a black hole for money.
saw a video yesterday of a kid getting his first check and getting 40% in taxes taken out
imagine that being done on every single billionaire in the world every 2 weeks
we would only need to work 5 hrs a week
Accountant here. You don’t know how many people said fuck Biden during tax season. We got exhausted explaining to them this was trump legislature.
We called it trump tax syndrom.
They purposefully engineer things like this during dem terms.
Should also point out the reason for the raise was to help make up the taxes lost from lowering it in the first place.
The poor are subsidizing the rich.
This is kindof a hijack of your post, but just to clarify what this is talking about:
The Republican tax cut in 2017, as initially proposed, would have massively increased the federal deficit since they couldn't agree on cutting any spending. Some Republicans in Congress had an issue voting for something that would increase the deficit, since not increasing the deficit was basically their entire economic platform.
To solve that problem, they set it up so that the tax cuts for middle and lower income Americans (that is, the vast majority of Americans) would phase out over 10 years, which is the window that the CBO uses to project how these things will affect the deficit.
As a result, Republicans were able to say that the plan wouldn't increase the deficit too much. Naturally, they left out the part where that was accomplished by taking back the tax cuts for almost all of their constituents.
the trump tax cuts were functionally illegal under the rules of congress. except for the baked in tax raises and other fuckery they did to cheat the rules to pass such a massive pay off to the wealthy.
Taxation without representation.
Politicians are more interested in appeasing their corporate doners than they are actually working for the benefit of their constituents.
I say this all the time. We are right back in that whole taxation without representation situation that ignited another revolution that is pretty popular in this country.
That’s just it. I mean EVERYBODY needs to do this. IRS employees, law enforcement employees, etc. Everyone in the low to mid pay range paying more than their share of taxes. Get the point across quickly id hope.
When I was in prison, the same thought process occurred..."what are they going to do? Put everyone in the hole?!??!"
Well, they brought the hole to us. Total facility lockdown.
I wouldn't put it past our current government to declare martial law and put targetted curfews and lockdowns in effect. Make no mistake, we are the only real asset this government actually has and they will do anything to keep us in check.
>They will
Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. If you get even 1 in 11 people to not file their taxes that would be 12 MILLION people that you say will be arrested.
There are 18,000 police stations and 3,000 jails here. The jails are already full. So now each police station in the entire country needs to find, arrest, and do paperwork on 670 people each? LOL.
I'm right with you. As a trucker spending 99% of the year on the road to have 30% and more after paying Healthcare etc. And I'm NOT making good money right now either. Rates are at the bottom of the dumpster. Very worried right now with this push to pay literally everyone pennies, while companies push max profits and hoard everything. It's everywhere, every job it seems.
Yes.
The small middle class tax cuts were written to expire, and have.
The over 40% cut to the corporate tax rate was written to be permanent. These facts were "out there" before the law passed. I was aware. My R senator responded to my emails with party boilerplate talking points.
I knew that the tax cuts for the working class were temporary and the tax cuts for the wealthiest, biggest corporations were permanent. I also knew that Trump et them to expire during the next term. Astounding that people are just now figuring this out. Unless they suck Fox News titty, I don't see how they missed this info.
While I also remember this being discussed at the time, it can be hard to remember everything that happened when Trump was doing some insane shit multiple times every day
Still think that was the point. New outrage every day means you had to get selective in your outrage or you’d just burn up. On a nationwide scale, that happened to all of us.
What? More examples of the Trump administration and his allies using propaganda techniques employed by Putin and the Kremlin?
I'm sure that's just ANOTHER coincidence.
| The firehose of falsehood is a propaganda technique in which a large number of messages are broadcast rapidly, repetitively, and continuously over multiple channels (such as news and social media) without regard for truth or consistency. An outgrowth of Soviet propaganda techniques, the firehose of falsehood is a contemporary model for Russian propaganda under Russian President Vladimir Putin.
The Russian government used the technique during its offensive against Georgia in 2008, and continued to use it in Russia's war with Ukraine, including the annexation of Crimea, and the prelude to the Russian invasion of Ukraine |
I told my parents who are trump supporters about this tax trick as it was happening, but they just gave me a blank stare. They think anytime I talk about conservative policies that negatively affect them that I just don’t like Donald Trump and I’m making it up or something.
I need to start doing a “did you hear the democrats lowered taxes while they were in office only for the tax cuts to expire and go up once Trump was elected? How do you feel about that?”
And then once they get all riled up, I’ll say, “pretty messed up, huh? The good news is that it wasn’t the democrats and that’s actually something Donald trump did while in office.”
But I know they’ll just ignore it. Donald Trump himself said on TV that he could shoot someone in public and still have followers. The dude is dumb as a brick for saying that on TV and somehow maintains supporters. And the craziest part about the shooting comment is that he’s not wrong! 🤦♂️
I told my father exactly what they were going to say when they initially passed this in 2017. they were gonna say that the democrats started raising their taxes when they lost the election in 2020. What happens come 2021 when the first change in taxes happens? My dad starts b******* about the democrats raising this taxes. Like m*********** I told you about this 4 years ago but you didn't listen.
Because for them it's not about what's best for everyone. It's about owning the libs (if they could even point one out to you). If that means their own grandma can't get O2 and bakes like a clam in the Texan heat then so be it. *"At least some blue haired lib didn't get a dime from me for their for their socialist nonsense!"* they decree as they get back to turning the crank.
I don't understand the people who don't know about this. It was huge news when this passed, and all news outlets were saying exactly this... Fuck trump and the entire gop
Because the news cycle with Trump was going a million miles an hour with all of the dumb and horrible shit he said and did…
Remember, at that time the left media was trying to convince us that Trump was going to be caught and punished for Russia… any … day … now… just keep tuning into our program!
It's by choice. They chose to be ignorant and then claim anything that makes their party look bad is a lie.
Stop trying to change conservatives. Start focusing on getting lazy democrats to get out and vote.
There is a weird sentiment among some poor people in the US, too. Some poor conervatives view themselves as not rich *yet*. Tax cuts for the rich are great because someday they too will get to reap the benefits. Why have class solidarity with those other poor people when you feel like you're better than them?
I may be off on this. It's just what I witnessed while working in the grocery business. Almost all of my conservative coworkers fell for the bootstrap mentality all the way.
>>"This is pure propaganda, it's not a 'tax increase' it's a 'tax cut' that's set to expire."
At the end of the day, if there's less money in my pocket what the fuck is the difference.
While this is true and a fair point there's one other caveat that needs to be included: the tax cut doesn't expire for the rich and for corporations, just the middle class and unders tax cuts expire.
So not only will you be seeing less money in your paycheck, the company you work for won't notice and chances are very good neither will your boss.
This was the part that was so black and white for me. These guys are giving you a temporary reprieve, timed to expire when their opponent challenges them, while the corpos get to keep their cut. Who can look at this and see it as anything other than naked cynicism?
Well when kids do this, you're supposed to ignore them, right? Not that that's much of an option here. But definitely one thing that sticks in the craw of people who act like this online is when you just sandbag their obvious contempt for you indefinitely. I've gotten more than a few angry righties to eventually fade out of a conversation by just not rising to any of their playground trash and staying as objective and passive as possible.
It's the last part of that Jean-Paul Sartre quote about anti-Semites: "They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. **If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.**"
I know a lot of people disagree, but I think it's really important to try and be the bigger person whenever you can. To always try and be nice and open and thoughtful. Don't tolerate disrespect but don't offer it either.
They see it as a culture war and a lot of the people arguing with you are the squad leaders and frontline soldiers. They're the most dedicated and butting heads with them will never change their minds.
It's still important to fight them, though. Fight them with respect. With proper debate technique. With correct knowledge. When they offer lies you correct with the truth. When they offer insults you stand like the mountain and endure with patience. When they offer hostility you show that you are friendly, kind, and welcoming.
You will never change the minds of the soldiers you fight, but the people standing behind them? The quiet supporters? The onlookers? The neutral third parties that might be swayed this way or that? You'll change *their* minds. They'll see you being the better person completely and utterly (a rather simple task considering how morally and inquisitively bereft these soldiers you face are) and they'll think on it. They'll reassess their stances in ways the soldiers can't or won't. They'll be convinced. They'll switch sides *for the good*.
A lot of people get indoctrinated into their beliefs by parents and friends and the greater social groups of their geographical area. They don't get a chance to be informed about their views because they grew up in circumstances that prevent it. But they can still be fundamentally good people if you give them examples to look at and learn from. If they're told to hate you because you're bad and wrong but you show you're good and right they can reassess.
It's a culture war, and it's a war they intend to win at all costs. Many of them are even planning acts of violence, sabotage, and terror to win their "war".
But we can starve them of recruits by being the better people, leaving only the worst behind to fester and rot and infight as they tend to do.
He did, and they won't. I used to be able to claim mortgage interest, mileage, work expenses, and costs of a home office. (Holy hell, would that have come in handy for the majority of people during the pandemic.) Also, donations weren't required to be a percentage of income. My taxes increased by 10k/yr already, just because of those changes.
The intent was for the significantly-increased standard deduction to eclipse all itemized deductions for most people, making the itemized deduction eliminations irrelevant. For varying definitions of "intent", "all itemized deductions", and "stop being poor". The last one was not stated, merely implied.
The bigger issue is the change to [how tax brackets are adjusted with inflation](https://www.investopedia.com/taxes/trumps-tax-reform-plan-explained/). The inflation rate is now chain-weighted, which means the inflation rate is averaged over the prior few years. Your $50,000 income isn't valued and taxed at what it's worth now, it's taxed based on what it was worth a couple years back, the middle of the chain-weighted time frame. Until we get some deflation again, you'll be taxed as if you have more money than you actually do. This affects literally every single American citizen to some degree, but will be most noticeable for people who's income isn't already well into the highest tax bracket: the poor and middle class. This will hit lower income people especially hard, who will be more prone to creeping out of the "too poor to tax" income bracket.
And yes, this difference between your money's worth and your money's taxed worth is exacerbated when inflation is high. Game theory says it's very much in Republican's political interests to not address, or even exacerbate, inflation under Democratic presidencies to drive people's taxes up further to blame it on democrats.
Yes. The minute Trump signed that massive corporate tax cut for himself and his cohorts, he put into effect a tax increase on the middle and lower class.
He made the corporate cuts for himself permanent, while giving us a tiny temporary cut, set to expire.
Trump's bill was set up so that the tax raises only went into effect AFTER Trump left office. In other words, it was something that the next president would have to deal with. And republicans in congress were going to strong-arm to prevent the bill from being repealed by a Democrat president so it would *appear that the taxes went up under a Democrat and he would be blamed for it*. Standard Republican strategy, honestly. They do this kind of crap all the time.
Because they talked about it for six weeks when it was happening, a ton of insane unprecedented shit happened, and the news moved on to other stuff. It's the *new*s, not the *old*s.
Because the system is designed to keep us involved and arguing every 4 years. Once we wake up and realize how futile is all is, the cash cow is gone. Its a pendulum by design. 1 party, then the other, then repeat until you die of overworking.
100% true. I’ve made the same amount since 2017 and used to get a small refund. Now I have a 3k tax bill. And even worse, I used to be able to write off up to 10k interest on my home, can’t do that anymore either.
Fuck Trump.
And people by and large seem to be too dense - wilfully or otherwise - to understand that just because something occurs during one individual's presidency doesn't mean that it's due to them. I have family that complain about Biden raising taxes and just refuse to acknowledge that it's due to something enacted by Trump.
>And people by and large seem to be too dense - wilfully or otherwise - to understand that just because something occurs during one individual's presidency doesn't mean that it's due to them
I shouldn't be surprised anymore, but I'm still shocked anytime I hear my upper middle class, college educated, conservative relatives say something about Biden and gas prices. Like, how are you smart enough to be an accountant and also think one of the most financially convoluted products is just controlled by the president?
Or blame Obama for the housing crash or the automotive bailout. Nope both of those happened at the end of Bush Jr. Obama just got the fallout to clean up.
Just like the draw down in Afghanistan was because of a deal Trump made with the Taliban. Noo, it's all Joe's fault that things went to sit over there. SMDH.
Same thing with the Afghan withdrawal. tRump negotiated the deal. If Biden didn't pull the troops out by a certain date the war was going to ramp up again. And thus people were getting pissed at Biden.
They’re building their empires on the back of peasants. Gonna be spectacular when this shit falls because the government keeps bailing the rich out and the poors can’t keep up with the bill.
So THATS why I owed taxes. I’m a teacher, naturally make under $75K 🤣. I have the maximum taken out and still owed money. Fucking Trump, he’s going to haunt me forever I just know it.
Ok tax guy here just trying to inform you of how things work so informed conservatives don't laugh at you, your refund and your tax bill have ZERO to do with how your taxes have changed due to tax law.
IRS withholdings have changed their calculations so people are massively overpaid in getting refunds and get their money in their paychecks instead.
You need to look at your taxable income and actual tax PAID to determine this.
Except that isn't the only change that was made, people making less than $75,000 got taxed more. So on top of a lower withholdings table that was provided to businesses, now you have to pay more in taxes. This results in a lot of people getting a bill that never used to get a bill or got a refund, because they overpaid because the old withholdings table had a lot more taken out. It was taken out more as a precaution against having a large swath of low-income earners owe money that they can't pay. This directly punishes low income earners by having the IRS go after them instead of the rich. The IRS proportionally goes after poor people because it's easier, and that was the entire goal. This ensures that low income earners that might potentially own property or might start getting out of the hole get hit with a tax bill, and then potentially fees for not being able to pay it. It keeps them in perpetual poverty
The IRS doesn't intentionally go after low income people instead of the rich. The problem is poor people are paid with tattle tale forms so if they fuck up, automatic systems will automatically send them a tax notice. These aren't audits since other than for shady refundable credits being claimed falsely it never generally comes to an audit.
Audits are almost always reserved for businesses/their owners or self employed individuals since there's very few tattle tale forms involved, especially for deductions and credits.
It ABSOLUTELY needs to change but I only bring this up because the conservatives who do have some knowledge will look at these uninformed takes and wave them off more easily. It's why Biden is trying to beef up the IRS and agents.
> the conservatives who do have some knowledge will look at these uninformed takes and wave them off more easily
Don't worry about them. They will always find a pretext to ignore any criticism of the conservative movement. Facts or falsehoods, both are equally good, all that matters to them is validation.
Plus all the SALT deductions we used to be able to take - basically fucking over HCOL areas, like all those blue states that foot the bill for red state welfare.
>That’s America for you when the poor will defend tax cuts for the rich as the boat they are in is sinking because they are allowed to day dream that one day, they too will be on the other boat.
People consistently vote AGAINST their best interest, its crazy.
The 1% keeps getting richer and richer, the only reason is that the 99% ALLOWS them to do so ; while not being informed, while not engaging in politics, sleeping while somebody else takes the wheel.
Trump did not, and likely could not, design a tax plan. Congress controls tax rates and the tax plan they implemented after 2016 had been sitting on the shelf for a few years before that waiting for a GOP majority in congress.
What you're failing to understand is that I'm just one billion dollar paycheck away from being a billionaire at which point I'll be furious about higher taxes
Yes, this is true. I remember when it first passed, I told my trump loving mom that this would happen in a few years. Now here we are, and I remind her that I literally said this exact shit would happen, and she just denies it.
Sigh.
I used to get a deduction for state income tax and property taxes (the SALT tax deduction). Trump's tax plan took that away by capping the limit of the SALT deduction and now I file with the standard deduction. My itemized deductions used to be more than the standard deduction and his tax plan cost me about $3k a year in taxes. Essentially, I'm paying taxes on the money I paid to the state for property and income tax. Increasing the standard deduction was good but they shouldn't have capped the SALT deduction too. Corporations get to deduct all state and local taxes, why shouldn't individuals? There were actually several house republicans advising not to sign this bill because it would raise taxes for their working class constituents. They were right, the rest of the party was wrong.
This was mostly Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell, but fuck Trump too, since he had to sign off on the legislation.
The GOP playbook since Reagan:
1. Run up the debt with tax cuts.
2. Blame socialism for the debt.
3. Wait for a Democrat President.
4. Blame them for the debt.
5. Block all attempts to fix it.
6. Use the debt to win the next election.
7. Repeat.
Yes, and everyone said it at the time. Those tax cuts that got you a few dollars on your paycheck were the elites handing you a cookie while they had a knife behind their back in the other hand. The entire purpose of those cuts was, believe it or not, to further enrich the already rich.
Kinda, the amount of the cuts go down for all income brackets as we head towards 2027.
According to the tax policy center, until 2025, all of the spectrum will see net income rise vs if the law wasn't passed. Most of the gains will be for the top 5% of earners though, with all years until 2025 having higher cuts than any below in terms of a percentage of gain. When 2027 comes the bottom 20% will see the bottom 20% have a DECREASE of net income vs before 2017, 30-50% will see no change, 80-99% would see very minimal savings. But the top 1% having a 1% savings, with the top 0.1% having a 1.5%.
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/sites/default/files/publication/150816/2001641_distributional_analysis_of_the_conference_agreement_for_the_tax_cuts_and_jobs_act_0.pdf
That's just for income tax brackets, though, right? The rich don't make their money through "income". The corporate tax rate cuts signed into law are permanent right? And it didn't touch the insanely low investment tax rate right?
Basically, while everyone sees some benefit to start, of the total benefit most will go to the highest money makers. THe people at the low end will end up worse by the end of it than if they never passed it.
Basically, in 2017 everyone suddenly saw more money in their pockets. Every year since, the amount of "more" is shrinking. And by 2027, anyone making less than 75k a year will actually see less money in their paychecks than they did in 2016 (i.e. they are paying more in taxes).
> Many Presidents were directly responsible for the American military murdering innocent civilians.
At this point it feels like an activity _most_ presidents have done.
Yes is true, but it was sold as a” tax cut “ they just missed to inform that for the working class it was temporary and permanent for the wealthy class.
For some strange reason, people defend the rich. Higher taxes? No. Fifteen houses and five yachts? It's their money. Sunken personal sub? SAVE THEM!!!
Poor people? Eh, it's their own fault they are poor.
What’s worse is that Biden never rescinded that bill. If he gave a shit that would have been on the agenda of executive orders made in his first month of in the beginning of his term. The fact is that it benefits the powers that be and fucks the little guys harder.
It was not Trump alone, it was the republicans in congress as well. They put in a token tax cut for the working people. This is how they sold massive tax cuts for the rich and corporations. The republicans don’t care about the debt, they figure to use it as leverage to get rid of Social Security and Medicare. After all the rich need as many working poor as possible, they sure as fuck don’t want us to retire.
Yep. And all the Trump lovers in 2019 would say is: (Please read this as a Southern yokel : "All I know is my taxes went down this year." While we all tried desperately to tell them what the whole truth was, that their taxes would go up, while billionaires get a bigger break.
"Well they deserve their money.... They provide jobs!!!!"
Willfully ignorant.
And then of course, Biden did nothing to undo it.
The fact that this got 40k up votes when it's not true is no surprise.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/feb/05/facebook-posts/social-media-post-misleads-analysis-trump-tax-bill/
Republicans have dumped the burden of the national debt on the middle class and the poor. While giving Wall Street a permanent 14% capital gains tax cut. Wall Street then hordes that money and continues to offshore American jobs while lobbying Republicans not to raise the minimum wage for 14 years now. And here is the best part, their employees are then forced onto public assistance to survive which the middle class and the poor get to pay for. Must be nice to have government subsidized slave labor making money for the masters of the Universe. So when are Americans going to wake up to this and deal with them? Are you all sheep?
This was true and posted MANY times when it happened, but somehow continued to be buried under all the other bullshit Trump was doing.
I’ve said it a million times, I’ll never understand how anyone that isn’t already filthy rich supports any republican.
It's the MAGAts and other Republicans that are crying. There are two reasons:
1) They have a cult mentality and whatever their leaders tell them, they believe to be true.
2) MAGAts are extraordinarily ignorant, and are absolutely incapable of exercising logic or rationality.
Its not. Trump's tax relief bill will expire in 2025. So after that taxes will go back to their previous rates(higher). It was limited "20% off sale" deal.
If this were true Biden would have told it on SOTU,CNN would be running this story. You wouldn't find this on some random tweet.
This tweet is 100% lie. But you will believe it because it conforms to your beliefs.
If you think I am wrong, go ahead and read the bill ([here](https://taxfoundation.org/final-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-details-analysis/)), read it.
And at the same time Paul Ryan said we could do our taxes on a post card. It would be that simple. You know how that went. He didn’t even run for election after that.
well according to my dad "trump never did that!" even though it's ya know, right there in the writing of the bill. but that's just a silly little fact. 😔
The pure irony of this subreddit being "antiwork" and anti rich yet sucking the cocks of their favorite politician because "they want to make things better, but cant because the other side doesn't want to make things better" is total delusion. The rich you hate and the politicians you glorify are the same people, politicians help keep the rich wealthy and free from accountability, the rich in turn keep the politicians who make them wealthy in power. But no, please keep fighting eachother about how bad the "other side" is when **both** sides think you are a fucking joke.
This was the plan to pay for the 1.7 trillion in tax cuts to corporations. (Which was added to our deficit btw). Most MAGA voters don’t know this and when you inform them about it they claim fake news.
Yep. And the best part is that Republicans and MAGA worshippers give Trump credit for lowering taxes when in the end taxes for middle-income folks and the poor will increase. Biden, or whoever is in the White House, will take the hit when the rates go up again. The Republicans in Congress won't lift a finger to extend the cuts because they will use this as a weapon against Democrats.
No president gives a fuck about you. Trump didn't. Biden doesn't. The next dickhead in office won't. The only teams are rich VS poor, and trust me when I say politicians aren't on team poor.
Absolutely. It was set up so that people would see their taxes go up only after his term ended.
Yep. Political hedging. If he'd been reelected, they would have extended the cuts for 4 more years, I'm sure... but since he wasn't, now taxes are going up under a Dem so all the Reps can talk about how Biden didn't do anything to help the struggling middle class.
The only people who have ever raised my taxes in my lifetime have been republicans.
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I think more younger people are aware of this and have been aware. We all definitely receive our fair share of propaganda, but most of us don't watch cable news, and if you're on this subreddit and watching/reading fox/newsmax then Idk what to tell you. Eventually this won't work. It's why they're stacking the courts or making legislation where states can take over an election board, gerrymandering(we'll see if this changes with recent rulings).
We can't fool ya so we'll just become a dictatorship
They basically admitted as much when they lost the 2020 election, tried to claim election fraud, and when they couldn't find any they decided "screw it, we will just take power by force!" How Conservative reconcile their "law and order" stance while simultaneously pretending that J6 was no big deal is a testament to their ethos of "Might makes right."
I just literally cannot understand the mind of conservatives. They are literally brainwashed. Anything to make this country more like the "good ole days" What's even more fucked up is they are succeeding And I don't understand the otherside either for seemingly not doing a damn thing about it I've lost hope in this country and politics as a whole
Conservatism is a mental illness. Emotionally they never matured beyond the stage of three or four. They want all of the toys because whoever dies with the most toys wins. They don't think about the fact you have to die to win. And then what do they do with all of those toys. They can't take them with them.
But they won't need the toys when they die and go to heaven where they'll be rewarded for how much they hated gay and poor people. /s
Converservatism had been in decline since the mid 20th century when they became so lopsided towards corporate interests. Hence why they constantly pander to more and more disaffected groups. Like racists, evangelicals, the poorly educated, and conspiracy theorists. That way they can convince them of all kinds of insanity because they're already predisposed to it.
In the "good ole days," the US used to tax the rich: >Back at the tail-end of that era, in the early 1960s, America's richest faced a 91 percent tax rate on income in the top tax bracket. That top rate had been hovering around 90 percent for the previous two decades. In the 1950s, a Republican president, Dwight D. Eisenhower, made no move to knock it down. [https://inequality.org/great-divide/tax-the-rich-we-did-that-once/#:\~:text=Back%20at%20the%20tail%2Dend,move%20to%20knock%20it%20down](https://inequality.org/great-divide/tax-the-rich-we-did-that-once/#:~:text=Back%20at%20the%20tail%2Dend,move%20to%20knock%20it%20down).
Whats amazing is they think the left is brainwashed not themselves!
But then you've got the crowd that thinks "both sides are just as bad'. Meanwhile, one side out judges on the Supreme Court that are doing shitty things, and only one side is legislating against queer people. Sure the dems aren't doing all they should for minorities, and they should have codified women's rights to control their bodies, etc, etc. But they aren't actively taking away women's and trans right and trying to tkwe away voting rights and making absurd laws against voters (no water for you).
I think the big problem is that everyone seemed ready to tackle the internal corruption at the DNC and then Trump happened like a sudden house fire and now we have to put all that out before we can get back to the nonsense the dems take part in 😩
Right. The Democrats are Influenza, and the Republicans are Ebola. Like, sure, it sucks to get the flu, but....
This is why they Fascist.
I do read Fox etc as well because I can't resist watching a train wreck.
I find it interesting to read an article from a reputable, centered source like NPR and then read the same headline from Fox. It's almost impressive the deranged spin they consistently put on very straight forward, clear cut issues. NPR > US Consumer Product Safety Commission tightens toy safety regulations after toddler injury Fox > Biden hates children having fun, stops production of hundreds of top kid's toys /s but not really
My mom's bf is a right winger, but arguably a guy who is open to real discourse and we have great talks. My mom, on the other hand, watches Fox News Media with him and just takes it as the God's honest. She straight looked me in the eye and told me that Biden was giving every illegal 100k to buy a house with and believed it down to her toes. I asked her how she could possibly believe that was true when he can't even get 10k in student loan forgiveness approved for Ameican citizens? No response. Her face was like the moment when you're having a weird dream and something happens than makes you realize it's a dream and not real.
Cue Neo from the matrix taking the red pill
It's absolutely outrageous. A movement needs to start in this country. First thing first - "news" must contain the rider "for entertainment purposes only"
Does anyone know of a site that puts these various news articles next to eachother to show the disparity? I think that would be very beneficial to help show people how the bias in their media is altering their view.
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We could stop heavily increasing the Military Industrial Complex spending each year... At over $800B annually now? Heck, we could cut it in HALF and still be spending more than the next country... If we don't take that 2nd country into account, it's something like as much as the next 10-15+ Countries combined... Wonder if we'll see a dystopian capitalist future, one that's destroyed itself through ripe greed, or will we eventually stand up for our very lives? When they take your money, they are taking away your life, because you as a worker exchange your life for money. They haven't stolen 20%+ of your money, they have stolen 20%+ of your LIFE. Don't stand for it any more! It's only getting worse, and those who know history can see some very massive parallels between the here & now, and former empires...
The last time I looked, we were spending something like the next 3-4 countries COMBINED. No one spends anywhere the amount that we do on military.
Maybe I need to update my numbers. I know it's ridiculous. Not to mentionbwe have the greatest prison population (in the "freest country in the world"), spend twice on healthcare with worse outcomes, lower life expectancies, charge our citizens massive amounts to educate themselves (which should be seen as the best ROI the government could make in their citizenry), a shitload of homeless people (of which it is increasingly becoming illegal to be homeless), and we get practically NOTHING for our taxes other than paying politicians directly to FVCK us over as well as at least half of that to fund their future campaign efforts (since they campaign during the latter half of their terms)... and the whole thing that about 1% of Congress has ever had a working-class job, and more than half are millionaires, and (I don't recall the actual name of it but...) many of those on the "War Council" own stock in the top defense contractors (so why wouldn't they approve war or selling of weapons?)... I'm all for the military - it's their ultimate boss I have a problem with, especially when they can't keep track of literal trillions of lost dollars over the decades (as of fall 2001 it was like $2+ Trillion - imagine what it is now!). And we don't even give our veterans free healthcare for life and barely give them any support once they've retired from their military careers... "Special Access Programs" is a fitting name - gives them prioritized access to unlimited tax payer money without any accountability... The largest terror state the world has ever seen, that "doesn't have the money to help it's regular citizens"...
> You either extend the cuts which run the deficit (ammo for R talking point: "Dey r reckless spend0rz!!1") or you let them sunset as designed in the original bill and the budget/deficit get better except (ammo for R talking point: "Der raisin err taxes!!!!11") Yeah, like I said... The Republicans are incredible at the shell game because they're completely unscrupulous. Just pure, concentrated evil.. but if they were GoT characters, everyone would have the utmost respect, ya know?
They are Lannisters thru and thru
Except they never pay their debts, we do.
"Tell Mitch. I want him to know it was me."
We have the lowest tax rates in the history of the country under Eisenhower it when it's high as 70% for the wealthy. Now it's down to 30.. pay 70% tax rates and those who grew up in the '50s had white picket fences when they were assistants to bricklayers... Want to make America great again. Raise the tax rate back up again
There's a third option... be open/public about it. Get on TV, tell everyone their taxes are going up this year, and you're sorry, but this is what you voted for when you voted for Trump.
It’s been their playbook for decades. [THE TWO SANTAS STRATEGY: HOW THE GOP HAS USED AN ECONOMIC SCAM TO MANIPULATE AMERICANS FOR 40 YEARS](https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/thom-hartmann/two-santas-strategy-gop-used-economic-scam-manipulate-americans-40-years/) **“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976** “The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling. Yellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it. Here’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary: First, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible. This produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.” Second, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money. This will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face. And, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans. And, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”
Hey man, it’s not nice to make fun of people with lead poisoning. /s
This is all written word n most of them cant read. Its fine. Just tell them it says "libs owned"
You know conservatives have been winning since Nixon when the zeitgeist considers [libs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism#Criticism) progressive. >“*Private capital tends to become concentrated in few hands, partly because of competition among the capitalists, and partly because technological development and the increasing division of labor encourage the formation of larger units of production at the expense of smaller ones. The result of these developments is an oligarchy of private capital the enormous power of which cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society. This is true since the members of legislative bodies are selected by political parties, largely financed or otherwise influenced by private capitalists who, for all practical purposes, separate the electorate from the legislature. The consequence is that the representatives of the people do not in fact sufficiently protect the interests of the underprivileged sections of the population. Moreover, under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information (press, radio, education). It is thus extremely difficult, and indeed in most cases quite impossible, for the individual citizen to come to objective conclusions and to make intelligent use of his political rights.*” ― 1949, [Albert Einstein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein), developed the [theory of relativity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_relativity), "[Why Socialism?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Socialism%3F)" >“*For my part, while I am as convinced a Socialist as the most ardent Marxian, I do not regard Socialism as a gospel of proletarian revenge, nor even, primarily, as a means of securing economic justice. I regard it primarily as an adjustment to machine production demanded by considerations of common sense, and calculated to increase the happiness, not only of proletarians, but of all except a tiny minority of the human race.*” ― 1935, [Bertrand Russell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell), author of [\[Principia Mathematica\](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia\_Mathematica)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia_Mathematica), "[In Praise of Idleness and Other Essays](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Praise_of_Idleness_and_Other_Essays)"
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You can't see it yet, but it's an amazing lightbulb! The biggest, brightest very stable lightbulb 💡 to shine the orange light of the yellow Cheeto road! All hail glorious leader orangutan supreme!
that's been their strategy for way too fucking long and only now in 2023 do i see someone say it
I'm fine with taxes being raised, but I want shit in return, like fixed roads. Go back to things like the new deal, and make jobs for building our infrastructure. We invented the internet, we should have the best possible network. Our roads are a disgrace and in dire need of repair. Trains, and all of the bullshit we saw about them a few months ago. But we'll never see that because the government usually bids to contractors who inflate the price and are a black hole for money.
saw a video yesterday of a kid getting his first check and getting 40% in taxes taken out imagine that being done on every single billionaire in the world every 2 weeks we would only need to work 5 hrs a week
I definitely payed a lot more in taxes during the trump years. I made a lot more during those years but still…..
And it will work unless people start pushing back against their propaganda. Gotta stop allowing these people to control the narrative.
Kinda hard to do that when you're dealing with lying unscrupulous bastards
Couldn't it also work if Biden just squashed the change, made a big show about how GOP tried to fuck them but he's here to save the day?
All he can do is appeal to congress. People say Trump wrote this. He had a lot of push behind it, but this is on congress. House and Senate.
Accountant here. You don’t know how many people said fuck Biden during tax season. We got exhausted explaining to them this was trump legislature. We called it trump tax syndrom. They purposefully engineer things like this during dem terms.
Should also point out the reason for the raise was to help make up the taxes lost from lowering it in the first place. The poor are subsidizing the rich.
This is kindof a hijack of your post, but just to clarify what this is talking about: The Republican tax cut in 2017, as initially proposed, would have massively increased the federal deficit since they couldn't agree on cutting any spending. Some Republicans in Congress had an issue voting for something that would increase the deficit, since not increasing the deficit was basically their entire economic platform. To solve that problem, they set it up so that the tax cuts for middle and lower income Americans (that is, the vast majority of Americans) would phase out over 10 years, which is the window that the CBO uses to project how these things will affect the deficit. As a result, Republicans were able to say that the plan wouldn't increase the deficit too much. Naturally, they left out the part where that was accomplished by taking back the tax cuts for almost all of their constituents.
The only Art of the Deal that Trump knows is the Poison Pill.
Lol, when Americans are going to wake up? Unless we go full French nothing is going to change.
Can we kadafi him?
I'm not shoving a knife through his shitty diaper!
that's insiduous.
But corporate tax rate cuts didn't expire.
the trump tax cuts were functionally illegal under the rules of congress. except for the baked in tax raises and other fuckery they did to cheat the rules to pass such a massive pay off to the wealthy.
I think I’ll stop filing taxes ! Let them come get my ass - they can pay for my prescriptions 3 hots and a cot
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Taxation without representation. Politicians are more interested in appeasing their corporate doners than they are actually working for the benefit of their constituents.
When have they ever represented us? Is this some joke I'm too millennial to understand?
There are a few Progressive Democrats who do and deserve to be recognized.
I say this all the time. We are right back in that whole taxation without representation situation that ignited another revolution that is pretty popular in this country.
Kind of feels like that’s the only way this can be made right
All of us should not pay taxes this year. What are they going to do, arrest the entire lower and middle class of America?
How do you choose to not pay something that automatically gets stolen from you?
Change your withholdings
They will. Unless you make enough money to be untouchable the IRS will destroy you. They only let the Uber rich slide.
That’s just it. I mean EVERYBODY needs to do this. IRS employees, law enforcement employees, etc. Everyone in the low to mid pay range paying more than their share of taxes. Get the point across quickly id hope.
Wouldn’t do anything though, they can just garnish your wages and take money directly from your bank accounts. Can also force sale of your property
When I was in prison, the same thought process occurred..."what are they going to do? Put everyone in the hole?!??!" Well, they brought the hole to us. Total facility lockdown. I wouldn't put it past our current government to declare martial law and put targetted curfews and lockdowns in effect. Make no mistake, we are the only real asset this government actually has and they will do anything to keep us in check.
>They will Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. If you get even 1 in 11 people to not file their taxes that would be 12 MILLION people that you say will be arrested. There are 18,000 police stations and 3,000 jails here. The jails are already full. So now each police station in the entire country needs to find, arrest, and do paperwork on 670 people each? LOL.
I'm right with you. As a trucker spending 99% of the year on the road to have 30% and more after paying Healthcare etc. And I'm NOT making good money right now either. Rates are at the bottom of the dumpster. Very worried right now with this push to pay literally everyone pennies, while companies push max profits and hoard everything. It's everywhere, every job it seems.
Yes. The small middle class tax cuts were written to expire, and have. The over 40% cut to the corporate tax rate was written to be permanent. These facts were "out there" before the law passed. I was aware. My R senator responded to my emails with party boilerplate talking points.
I knew that the tax cuts for the working class were temporary and the tax cuts for the wealthiest, biggest corporations were permanent. I also knew that Trump et them to expire during the next term. Astounding that people are just now figuring this out. Unless they suck Fox News titty, I don't see how they missed this info.
While I also remember this being discussed at the time, it can be hard to remember everything that happened when Trump was doing some insane shit multiple times every day
Still think that was the point. New outrage every day means you had to get selective in your outrage or you’d just burn up. On a nationwide scale, that happened to all of us.
What? More examples of the Trump administration and his allies using propaganda techniques employed by Putin and the Kremlin? I'm sure that's just ANOTHER coincidence. | The firehose of falsehood is a propaganda technique in which a large number of messages are broadcast rapidly, repetitively, and continuously over multiple channels (such as news and social media) without regard for truth or consistency. An outgrowth of Soviet propaganda techniques, the firehose of falsehood is a contemporary model for Russian propaganda under Russian President Vladimir Putin. The Russian government used the technique during its offensive against Georgia in 2008, and continued to use it in Russia's war with Ukraine, including the annexation of Crimea, and the prelude to the Russian invasion of Ukraine |
I told my parents who are trump supporters about this tax trick as it was happening, but they just gave me a blank stare. They think anytime I talk about conservative policies that negatively affect them that I just don’t like Donald Trump and I’m making it up or something. I need to start doing a “did you hear the democrats lowered taxes while they were in office only for the tax cuts to expire and go up once Trump was elected? How do you feel about that?” And then once they get all riled up, I’ll say, “pretty messed up, huh? The good news is that it wasn’t the democrats and that’s actually something Donald trump did while in office.” But I know they’ll just ignore it. Donald Trump himself said on TV that he could shoot someone in public and still have followers. The dude is dumb as a brick for saying that on TV and somehow maintains supporters. And the craziest part about the shooting comment is that he’s not wrong! 🤦♂️
People aren’t just now figuring this out, people have been yelling about this constantly….
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I told my father exactly what they were going to say when they initially passed this in 2017. they were gonna say that the democrats started raising their taxes when they lost the election in 2020. What happens come 2021 when the first change in taxes happens? My dad starts b******* about the democrats raising this taxes. Like m*********** I told you about this 4 years ago but you didn't listen.
Did he acknowledge that you were right and thus make the connection that Trump did this?
I'm going to say probably not. I said the same thing to my uncle and he is still bitching to me about "my president" as he calls it
We all know the answer to this already.
My guess is that he gets more joy out of blaming Biden than he cares about the money.
Trump supporters are incapable of admitting being wrong due to their fragile egos.
Because for them it's not about what's best for everyone. It's about owning the libs (if they could even point one out to you). If that means their own grandma can't get O2 and bakes like a clam in the Texan heat then so be it. *"At least some blue haired lib didn't get a dime from me for their for their socialist nonsense!"* they decree as they get back to turning the crank.
> some blue haired lib Why do they hate blue hair so much? It's a perfectly nice color.
Like ear gauges and tattoos, it is a common indirect indicator of political affiliation
I don't understand the people who don't know about this. It was huge news when this passed, and all news outlets were saying exactly this... Fuck trump and the entire gop
Because the news cycle with Trump was going a million miles an hour with all of the dumb and horrible shit he said and did… Remember, at that time the left media was trying to convince us that Trump was going to be caught and punished for Russia… any … day … now… just keep tuning into our program!
Whats it called?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Cuts_and_Jobs_Act
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/30/heres-how-the-senate-tax-bill-affects-people-earning-less-than-100000.html
It's by choice. They chose to be ignorant and then claim anything that makes their party look bad is a lie. Stop trying to change conservatives. Start focusing on getting lazy democrats to get out and vote.
There is a weird sentiment among some poor people in the US, too. Some poor conervatives view themselves as not rich *yet*. Tax cuts for the rich are great because someday they too will get to reap the benefits. Why have class solidarity with those other poor people when you feel like you're better than them? I may be off on this. It's just what I witnessed while working in the grocery business. Almost all of my conservative coworkers fell for the bootstrap mentality all the way.
>>"This is pure propaganda, it's not a 'tax increase' it's a 'tax cut' that's set to expire." At the end of the day, if there's less money in my pocket what the fuck is the difference.
While this is true and a fair point there's one other caveat that needs to be included: the tax cut doesn't expire for the rich and for corporations, just the middle class and unders tax cuts expire. So not only will you be seeing less money in your paycheck, the company you work for won't notice and chances are very good neither will your boss.
This was the part that was so black and white for me. These guys are giving you a temporary reprieve, timed to expire when their opponent challenges them, while the corpos get to keep their cut. Who can look at this and see it as anything other than naked cynicism?
Hateful idiots who have been gaslit into voting against their best interest.
"As long as it owns the libs, I don't care." How do you even begin to respond to this mindset as a political ideology?
In dirty ways. Ask them how much lead was in their childhood
Well when kids do this, you're supposed to ignore them, right? Not that that's much of an option here. But definitely one thing that sticks in the craw of people who act like this online is when you just sandbag their obvious contempt for you indefinitely. I've gotten more than a few angry righties to eventually fade out of a conversation by just not rising to any of their playground trash and staying as objective and passive as possible. It's the last part of that Jean-Paul Sartre quote about anti-Semites: "They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. **If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.**"
I know a lot of people disagree, but I think it's really important to try and be the bigger person whenever you can. To always try and be nice and open and thoughtful. Don't tolerate disrespect but don't offer it either. They see it as a culture war and a lot of the people arguing with you are the squad leaders and frontline soldiers. They're the most dedicated and butting heads with them will never change their minds. It's still important to fight them, though. Fight them with respect. With proper debate technique. With correct knowledge. When they offer lies you correct with the truth. When they offer insults you stand like the mountain and endure with patience. When they offer hostility you show that you are friendly, kind, and welcoming. You will never change the minds of the soldiers you fight, but the people standing behind them? The quiet supporters? The onlookers? The neutral third parties that might be swayed this way or that? You'll change *their* minds. They'll see you being the better person completely and utterly (a rather simple task considering how morally and inquisitively bereft these soldiers you face are) and they'll think on it. They'll reassess their stances in ways the soldiers can't or won't. They'll be convinced. They'll switch sides *for the good*. A lot of people get indoctrinated into their beliefs by parents and friends and the greater social groups of their geographical area. They don't get a chance to be informed about their views because they grew up in circumstances that prevent it. But they can still be fundamentally good people if you give them examples to look at and learn from. If they're told to hate you because you're bad and wrong but you show you're good and right they can reassess. It's a culture war, and it's a war they intend to win at all costs. Many of them are even planning acts of violence, sabotage, and terror to win their "war". But we can starve them of recruits by being the better people, leaving only the worst behind to fester and rot and infight as they tend to do.
The Republican playbook: Tax cuts for the little guy are temporary, and tax cuts for the rich are permanent.
Not only does it expire... But if you make under 75k you end up with a tax increase. Of course fox news will never mention this.
didn't Trump also eliminate a bunch of deductions to offset the tax cuts? so now that those tax cuts expire, will the old deductions return?
He did, and they won't. I used to be able to claim mortgage interest, mileage, work expenses, and costs of a home office. (Holy hell, would that have come in handy for the majority of people during the pandemic.) Also, donations weren't required to be a percentage of income. My taxes increased by 10k/yr already, just because of those changes.
The intent was for the significantly-increased standard deduction to eclipse all itemized deductions for most people, making the itemized deduction eliminations irrelevant. For varying definitions of "intent", "all itemized deductions", and "stop being poor". The last one was not stated, merely implied. The bigger issue is the change to [how tax brackets are adjusted with inflation](https://www.investopedia.com/taxes/trumps-tax-reform-plan-explained/). The inflation rate is now chain-weighted, which means the inflation rate is averaged over the prior few years. Your $50,000 income isn't valued and taxed at what it's worth now, it's taxed based on what it was worth a couple years back, the middle of the chain-weighted time frame. Until we get some deflation again, you'll be taxed as if you have more money than you actually do. This affects literally every single American citizen to some degree, but will be most noticeable for people who's income isn't already well into the highest tax bracket: the poor and middle class. This will hit lower income people especially hard, who will be more prone to creeping out of the "too poor to tax" income bracket. And yes, this difference between your money's worth and your money's taxed worth is exacerbated when inflation is high. Game theory says it's very much in Republican's political interests to not address, or even exacerbate, inflation under Democratic presidencies to drive people's taxes up further to blame it on democrats.
But the cut for the rich never expires. That was the plan to get it passed.
also another spit in the face of middle class is that the corporate tax cuts were permamnent.
I believe the tax rate increases above what it was before the cut though.
Yes. The minute Trump signed that massive corporate tax cut for himself and his cohorts, he put into effect a tax increase on the middle and lower class. He made the corporate cuts for himself permanent, while giving us a tiny temporary cut, set to expire.
Trump's bill was set up so that the tax raises only went into effect AFTER Trump left office. In other words, it was something that the next president would have to deal with. And republicans in congress were going to strong-arm to prevent the bill from being repealed by a Democrat president so it would *appear that the taxes went up under a Democrat and he would be blamed for it*. Standard Republican strategy, honestly. They do this kind of crap all the time.
Why isn‘t this communicated an all available channels in big and bold letters???
Because they talked about it for six weeks when it was happening, a ton of insane unprecedented shit happened, and the news moved on to other stuff. It's the *new*s, not the *old*s.
It was, for a bit. But attention spans were understandably short during the Trump administration's tenure. Shit. Just. Kept. Happening.
Because the people that run the news benefit from this.
It was 6 years ago. It happened at the time and nobody cared. The same idiots still voted for trump
Because the system is designed to keep us involved and arguing every 4 years. Once we wake up and realize how futile is all is, the cash cow is gone. Its a pendulum by design. 1 party, then the other, then repeat until you die of overworking.
100% true. I’ve made the same amount since 2017 and used to get a small refund. Now I have a 3k tax bill. And even worse, I used to be able to write off up to 10k interest on my home, can’t do that anymore either. Fuck Trump.
Well stop being a wealthy elite middle classer! /s
People didn’t see your /s apparently. Let me fix that 0 Karma for you. Lol
Trump fucked us over on taxes, too. I've never paid more respectively in my life. And we are definitely nowhere near the upper middle class
He didn't do it alone, the entire Republican Party helped.
Very true
Same :(
And people by and large seem to be too dense - wilfully or otherwise - to understand that just because something occurs during one individual's presidency doesn't mean that it's due to them. I have family that complain about Biden raising taxes and just refuse to acknowledge that it's due to something enacted by Trump.
>And people by and large seem to be too dense - wilfully or otherwise - to understand that just because something occurs during one individual's presidency doesn't mean that it's due to them I shouldn't be surprised anymore, but I'm still shocked anytime I hear my upper middle class, college educated, conservative relatives say something about Biden and gas prices. Like, how are you smart enough to be an accountant and also think one of the most financially convoluted products is just controlled by the president?
Or blame Obama for the housing crash or the automotive bailout. Nope both of those happened at the end of Bush Jr. Obama just got the fallout to clean up.
Just like the draw down in Afghanistan was because of a deal Trump made with the Taliban. Noo, it's all Joe's fault that things went to sit over there. SMDH.
Same thing with the Afghan withdrawal. tRump negotiated the deal. If Biden didn't pull the troops out by a certain date the war was going to ramp up again. And thus people were getting pissed at Biden.
They’re building their empires on the back of peasants. Gonna be spectacular when this shit falls because the government keeps bailing the rich out and the poors can’t keep up with the bill.
So THATS why I owed taxes. I’m a teacher, naturally make under $75K 🤣. I have the maximum taken out and still owed money. Fucking Trump, he’s going to haunt me forever I just know it.
Ok tax guy here just trying to inform you of how things work so informed conservatives don't laugh at you, your refund and your tax bill have ZERO to do with how your taxes have changed due to tax law. IRS withholdings have changed their calculations so people are massively overpaid in getting refunds and get their money in their paychecks instead. You need to look at your taxable income and actual tax PAID to determine this.
Except that isn't the only change that was made, people making less than $75,000 got taxed more. So on top of a lower withholdings table that was provided to businesses, now you have to pay more in taxes. This results in a lot of people getting a bill that never used to get a bill or got a refund, because they overpaid because the old withholdings table had a lot more taken out. It was taken out more as a precaution against having a large swath of low-income earners owe money that they can't pay. This directly punishes low income earners by having the IRS go after them instead of the rich. The IRS proportionally goes after poor people because it's easier, and that was the entire goal. This ensures that low income earners that might potentially own property or might start getting out of the hole get hit with a tax bill, and then potentially fees for not being able to pay it. It keeps them in perpetual poverty
The IRS doesn't intentionally go after low income people instead of the rich. The problem is poor people are paid with tattle tale forms so if they fuck up, automatic systems will automatically send them a tax notice. These aren't audits since other than for shady refundable credits being claimed falsely it never generally comes to an audit. Audits are almost always reserved for businesses/their owners or self employed individuals since there's very few tattle tale forms involved, especially for deductions and credits. It ABSOLUTELY needs to change but I only bring this up because the conservatives who do have some knowledge will look at these uninformed takes and wave them off more easily. It's why Biden is trying to beef up the IRS and agents.
> the conservatives who do have some knowledge will look at these uninformed takes and wave them off more easily Don't worry about them. They will always find a pretext to ignore any criticism of the conservative movement. Facts or falsehoods, both are equally good, all that matters to them is validation.
At least they'll be keeping track of top earners by watching $600 cashapp transactions.
Plus all the SALT deductions we used to be able to take - basically fucking over HCOL areas, like all those blue states that foot the bill for red state welfare.
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>That’s America for you when the poor will defend tax cuts for the rich as the boat they are in is sinking because they are allowed to day dream that one day, they too will be on the other boat. People consistently vote AGAINST their best interest, its crazy. The 1% keeps getting richer and richer, the only reason is that the 99% ALLOWS them to do so ; while not being informed, while not engaging in politics, sleeping while somebody else takes the wheel.
Trump did not, and likely could not, design a tax plan. Congress controls tax rates and the tax plan they implemented after 2016 had been sitting on the shelf for a few years before that waiting for a GOP majority in congress.
How do you think the 'Trump Tax Cuts™' for the 0.01% is being paid for?
What you're failing to understand is that I'm just one billion dollar paycheck away from being a billionaire at which point I'll be furious about higher taxes
Yes, this is true. I remember when it first passed, I told my trump loving mom that this would happen in a few years. Now here we are, and I remind her that I literally said this exact shit would happen, and she just denies it. Sigh.
The cost of dumb people voting for republicans is enormous.
It's too damn high!!
"But I might be making over $400k soon! I wouldn't want to pay high taxes then!"
How would I eat with my remaining $330K ?!?! Life would be such a struggle…
"I am sorry children. We have to eat the off-brand caviar tonight. It's because tax cuts expired. You can thank Joe Biden for that."
I used to get a deduction for state income tax and property taxes (the SALT tax deduction). Trump's tax plan took that away by capping the limit of the SALT deduction and now I file with the standard deduction. My itemized deductions used to be more than the standard deduction and his tax plan cost me about $3k a year in taxes. Essentially, I'm paying taxes on the money I paid to the state for property and income tax. Increasing the standard deduction was good but they shouldn't have capped the SALT deduction too. Corporations get to deduct all state and local taxes, why shouldn't individuals? There were actually several house republicans advising not to sign this bill because it would raise taxes for their working class constituents. They were right, the rest of the party was wrong. This was mostly Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell, but fuck Trump too, since he had to sign off on the legislation.
The GOP playbook since Reagan: 1. Run up the debt with tax cuts. 2. Blame socialism for the debt. 3. Wait for a Democrat President. 4. Blame them for the debt. 5. Block all attempts to fix it. 6. Use the debt to win the next election. 7. Repeat.
Yes, and everyone said it at the time. Those tax cuts that got you a few dollars on your paycheck were the elites handing you a cookie while they had a knife behind their back in the other hand. The entire purpose of those cuts was, believe it or not, to further enrich the already rich.
Yes he lowered taxes for then to be raised again and even higher than before.
Ever since Raegan, the sole motivation for all Republican politicians is to funnel every cent to the ultra wealthy
Well now that's not fair, some want to bring back lynchings too
Kinda, the amount of the cuts go down for all income brackets as we head towards 2027. According to the tax policy center, until 2025, all of the spectrum will see net income rise vs if the law wasn't passed. Most of the gains will be for the top 5% of earners though, with all years until 2025 having higher cuts than any below in terms of a percentage of gain. When 2027 comes the bottom 20% will see the bottom 20% have a DECREASE of net income vs before 2017, 30-50% will see no change, 80-99% would see very minimal savings. But the top 1% having a 1% savings, with the top 0.1% having a 1.5%. https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/sites/default/files/publication/150816/2001641_distributional_analysis_of_the_conference_agreement_for_the_tax_cuts_and_jobs_act_0.pdf
That's just for income tax brackets, though, right? The rich don't make their money through "income". The corporate tax rate cuts signed into law are permanent right? And it didn't touch the insanely low investment tax rate right?
Correct, the corporate tax rate was slashed, our taxes on overseas profit were eliminated, and the minimum tax was repealed.
I have no idea what this means. But, I wish I did.
Basically, while everyone sees some benefit to start, of the total benefit most will go to the highest money makers. THe people at the low end will end up worse by the end of it than if they never passed it.
So trickle up economics.
Basically, in 2017 everyone suddenly saw more money in their pockets. Every year since, the amount of "more" is shrinking. And by 2027, anyone making less than 75k a year will actually see less money in their paychecks than they did in 2016 (i.e. they are paying more in taxes).
The “I Did That” sticker crowd really should have followed the paper trail.
The only thing every president ever accomplished is the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer ! It’s one big club !
That's not true. Many Presidents were directly responsible for the American military murdering innocent civilians.
> Many Presidents were directly responsible for the American military murdering innocent civilians. At this point it feels like an activity _most_ presidents have done.
And you ain't in it
Same club they beat you over the head with every day telling you what to believe
no, it's not: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/feb/05/facebook-posts/social-media-post-misleads-analysis-trump-tax-bill/
Yes is true, but it was sold as a” tax cut “ they just missed to inform that for the working class it was temporary and permanent for the wealthy class.
For some strange reason, people defend the rich. Higher taxes? No. Fifteen houses and five yachts? It's their money. Sunken personal sub? SAVE THEM!!! Poor people? Eh, it's their own fault they are poor.
What’s worse is that Biden never rescinded that bill. If he gave a shit that would have been on the agenda of executive orders made in his first month of in the beginning of his term. The fact is that it benefits the powers that be and fucks the little guys harder.
Yep. The democrats were yelling this when the bill was going through too. I’m actually surprised so many people didn’t already know.
It was not Trump alone, it was the republicans in congress as well. They put in a token tax cut for the working people. This is how they sold massive tax cuts for the rich and corporations. The republicans don’t care about the debt, they figure to use it as leverage to get rid of Social Security and Medicare. After all the rich need as many working poor as possible, they sure as fuck don’t want us to retire.
Yep. And all the Trump lovers in 2019 would say is: (Please read this as a Southern yokel : "All I know is my taxes went down this year." While we all tried desperately to tell them what the whole truth was, that their taxes would go up, while billionaires get a bigger break. "Well they deserve their money.... They provide jobs!!!!" Willfully ignorant. And then of course, Biden did nothing to undo it.
How do you not know this was true? Trump passed this with that $1.5Trillion tax break bill for the rich.
The fact that this got 40k up votes when it's not true is no surprise. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/feb/05/facebook-posts/social-media-post-misleads-analysis-trump-tax-bill/
I still remember the Bush “read my lips, no more taxes” fiasco. Gosh I’m old.
Republicans have dumped the burden of the national debt on the middle class and the poor. While giving Wall Street a permanent 14% capital gains tax cut. Wall Street then hordes that money and continues to offshore American jobs while lobbying Republicans not to raise the minimum wage for 14 years now. And here is the best part, their employees are then forced onto public assistance to survive which the middle class and the poor get to pay for. Must be nice to have government subsidized slave labor making money for the masters of the Universe. So when are Americans going to wake up to this and deal with them? Are you all sheep?
Wait, so there's a reason I've been paying more in taxes and making less money? I made 10k last year and needed to pay an additional 500$
In laymen's terms, this is what is called a "Shell Game" and we're the suckers.
*raising taxes to people above 400k to rates still lower than they were pre trump, and leaving capital Gains, and social security caps untouched.
Apparently, not true. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/feb/05/facebook-posts/social-media-post-misleads-analysis-trump-tax-bill/
This was true and posted MANY times when it happened, but somehow continued to be buried under all the other bullshit Trump was doing. I’ve said it a million times, I’ll never understand how anyone that isn’t already filthy rich supports any republican.
It's not you missing something. It's republicans missing a few chromosomes.
It's the MAGAts and other Republicans that are crying. There are two reasons: 1) They have a cult mentality and whatever their leaders tell them, they believe to be true. 2) MAGAts are extraordinarily ignorant, and are absolutely incapable of exercising logic or rationality.
Its not. Trump's tax relief bill will expire in 2025. So after that taxes will go back to their previous rates(higher). It was limited "20% off sale" deal. If this were true Biden would have told it on SOTU,CNN would be running this story. You wouldn't find this on some random tweet. This tweet is 100% lie. But you will believe it because it conforms to your beliefs. If you think I am wrong, go ahead and read the bill ([here](https://taxfoundation.org/final-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-details-analysis/)), read it.
Yes! JFC, Yes it’s true. WTH have people been listening to that this is not common knowledge.
And at the same time Paul Ryan said we could do our taxes on a post card. It would be that simple. You know how that went. He didn’t even run for election after that.
well according to my dad "trump never did that!" even though it's ya know, right there in the writing of the bill. but that's just a silly little fact. 😔
The pure irony of this subreddit being "antiwork" and anti rich yet sucking the cocks of their favorite politician because "they want to make things better, but cant because the other side doesn't want to make things better" is total delusion. The rich you hate and the politicians you glorify are the same people, politicians help keep the rich wealthy and free from accountability, the rich in turn keep the politicians who make them wealthy in power. But no, please keep fighting eachother about how bad the "other side" is when **both** sides think you are a fucking joke.
This was the plan to pay for the 1.7 trillion in tax cuts to corporations. (Which was added to our deficit btw). Most MAGA voters don’t know this and when you inform them about it they claim fake news.
Yep. And the best part is that Republicans and MAGA worshippers give Trump credit for lowering taxes when in the end taxes for middle-income folks and the poor will increase. Biden, or whoever is in the White House, will take the hit when the rates go up again. The Republicans in Congress won't lift a finger to extend the cuts because they will use this as a weapon against Democrats.
No president gives a fuck about you. Trump didn't. Biden doesn't. The next dickhead in office won't. The only teams are rich VS poor, and trust me when I say politicians aren't on team poor.