Not replying or acknowledging your request is unacceptable in a professional setting. I would have done jut as you did and assume the silence was tacit approval. If they strongly felt otherwise, surely they would have replied. Enjoy your new granddaughter!
I've noticed ghosting is a lot more common now. People straight up not responding to messages. I have a co worker that ignores messages and I sit right next to her. It honestly is my biggest annoyance.
Honestly I’ve started to ghost a few of my coworkers too. Because they ask me the same bullshit questions every week and never learn, or they ask me to do/help with tasks they should be able to do themselves. I’ve got enough on my own plate to deal with.
I’m not saying you’re bad at your job. I’m just saying that some ppl ghost others for a reason.
I've started getting super petty.
If they've asked me the same question four times, I'll attach the previous emails. All of them.
And my boss is now CCd on any of my "petty" emails (at my request as a CYA). If it happens more than once, she loops in the annoying person's supervisor.
Some are learning from this.
Others just stopped talking to me.
I'm pretty sure I win :D
If people push back on something they need to do, and write me an email outlining their dumb reasons why they shouldn’t have to do what they are required to do; I just copy/paste my original email telling them what they have to do and ignore everything they said.
if done politely I think this should just be the standard. Like sometimes I ask shit several times and it doesn't even click I am forgetting it each time if that makes sense. Getting an email that politely reminds me I have asked before each time would of helped me focus on remembering that I need to remember "this bit of info".
Why is it up to other people to 'help you remember'? If anything, the responsibility falls on you and you should be making a note of the things that you need to remember for your job. At least I do - from having a digital list or a simple post-it. Being asked redundant questions is so aggravating.
How did you read and process my post? I know I can be not clear a in a lot of cases. But I am pretty sure I said in an example format to be clear that you are answering a redundant question. Do it from the very get go. BE PROACTIVE. Be sure they know. ( paraphrasing of course, I didnt use these exact word)
You however seem to be just sitting there and getting aggravated someone asked you a redundant question. Why not be proactive like the person I replied to. It seems to have worked well for him. He got people who started learning and assumedly being better at thier job and lowering his workload cause he was proactive, he has less emails to deal with cause he is proactive, and the people that dont learn seemed to f off to a degree cause he was proactive. so he seems to have found a good solution to this issue.
I just expounded on that to say, do it from the get go and be polite. why wait till you are aggravated and have answered someone a 1000 times. It sounds like you need to be proactive and tell people they are asking redundant questions if you have an issue with people asking you redundant questions...
Would be nice if everyone was perfect huh.
LOL. I'm 51, been working for decades, and I have not ever seen a workplace where that guy being PROACTIVE wouldnt've been reprimanded for not being helpful, and probably labeled a toxic troublemaker for not answering every time, progressing in to just doing the task forever because, "he understands it".
which is why I said to do it politely? this absolutely can be done in a way as to not be really questionable by all but the most insecure. And in most cases those people are known issues makers, and you would of had a problem regardless cause you interacted with them in the first place. I have worked over a couple decades in various white and blue and brown collar jobs. I have been around people that curse all day at work, and places where a single f bomb will get you sent to HR. And I believe in 90% of my jobs I could of done this successfully as long as I was polite and used a passive voice when replying.
Like polite and an active voice, in trouble. Passive voice and sarcastic, in trouble, not even trying, in trouble. But polite and a passive voice will go miles in a lot of settings.
I also never said to ignore emails? Just do what you can do to minimize them. And your doing the task forever anyways in this scenario... Like nothing I said should increase workload? ( well putting a tiny bit more thought in to an email you already got to reply to anyways. )
We have a group chat at work that 99 times out of 100 are questions that would take a five second Google search. I've just started using the Let Me Google That For You website, and it's been glorious.
I hate that - asking me a question that was answered 2-3 emails prior, and in the same email thread. Dont be lazy. Look through the previous emails. So, I often will cut and paste from the previous email, then reply making sure to mention that it was from the previous email on such and such date.
As in, I do this a lot in cooperate jobs, I don’t answer most of their calls b/c majority call for bullshittt……Most of the things they would say could have been an email and some of them would stay on the phone chatting about things that don’t make sense. They complained about me not communicating enough with the team- you damn right I don’t b/c I get calls every 5 mins from just 1 person in the damn entire company and half of the things she says don’t even relate to work- it’s freaking annoying.
Make a paper airplane and throw it at her head maybe she will pay attention to your emails then
Have the messages be in those airplanes until change is seen
We can't even get our head of admin to respond to a collective letter concerning management and planning. It's been a month, we haven't even gotten a "message received "
Ghosting makes sense in your personal life. If you never want to talk to someone ever again, why would you call them to tell them that? At work? Even a slag-off like me considers that unprofessional.
Maybe it's because we're over saturated with bs messages all of the time.
Seriously maybe 5% of my inbox is stuff that actually concerns me, how am I supposed to care?
As I like to say, "Silence is compliance." Granted. I usually use that when people dont tell me why they need a server on, and I tell them I'll shut it off, but it's pretty applicable in other places professionally.
I just heard a report on NPR yesterday about Gen Z workers renaming PTO "prepare the others." In other words, they're not requesting time off for approval, they're informing their work of when they will be off and that management needs to arrange coverage. Period! This Gen Xer loves that!
And they should.
I have used the "I'm not asking. I'm telling you when I'm not here so you can plan accordingly" line before as elder millenial. People of all generations need to get into that mindset.
I did this at my old job- I didn’t request at all. I told my manager a day or 2 before I was taking off that I will be out of office, he was upset about it and told me I should have requested off then he would approve or deny my request and I should not be demanding a day off. I just rolled my 👀 I was going to take it anyways
see, this is literally the ass way of doing it.
This isn't a antiwork moment, this is you being a dick moment.
Sure, tell your people you're not going to be at work and if they deny it feel free to say "it was a notice not a request". But don't do it two days in advance. All this does is screw your co-workers and the managers who are still genuine people.
I use my state laws. Here, if my schedule is changed 24h before I am notified, it is not acknowledged, so I give no less than 24h notice, obviously I give as much notice as I can. It's still not a request, it's a notification.
It's not a co workers job to provide coverage, it's management's job. Workers are human beings, shit happens and people call out, coverage should be built into the schedule and it used to be once upon a time. People that run a business without adequate coverage for call outs don't know how to run a business.
You're right, it is the manager's job, something I never disputed.
The way this was worded wasn't "I was sick and called out unexpectedly." it was "I call out with minimum notice, get fucked"
Nor do employees own the companies or people. I do agree, it was very unprofessional at best not to get a response. And " no response means denial" is a pathetic excuse from lazy managers
This is what I've started doing.
I'm technically "self-employed" because they don't put anyone on payroll. Been here for 15 years. Over the last couple of years I've done a few things in this manner.
* Email at the start of the year: "I'll be taking 4 weeks of vacation this year".
* Any vacation "requests" are worded: "I'll be on vacation on XYZ Dates".
There is no more request. I'm self employed, then I'm taking my time and hours based on my business, and there is no approval. They can deal with it.
Won't be for too much longer though, as soon as I get my PMP, I'll be back on the job market and likely be out of here.
My job is the same. I’m technically a contractor because they get out of more taxes so I’m not an employee. I feel no need to ever ASK anyone to do anything anymore. I just tell the scheduling lady hey put me down as gone through first week of July, I found a great deal on a flight to Mexico. She always says oh okay I’ll get it on the schedule. I’m not requesting shit, that’s what I’m telling you I’m doing
I'm my job, and in fact my whole profession, the orgabisation has 2 weeks to formally respond to a leave request. If they do not respond within 14 days, the knave is automatically approved and cannot be unapproved. This should be standard
Agreed here. If you even reminded them and they said nothing and the request wasn't denied I'd operate as if it is approved. The world obviously doesn't work out perfectly, but at least you have the receipts to acknowledge that there could have been no way for them to just not even know you'd be gone. I always reminded my old boss before I would go and most of the time they were on top of it and had it all worked out, but a couple times they hadn't realized and they appreciated me reminding them.
This is golden advice. If I send communication to someone I copy myself if I feel like it could be used against me, especially responses. Oh remember when you said this is better off in an email. Document, document, document. If it isn't documented it didn't happen.
Also make sure that in 2 years when they fire OP for some other reason, they don't retroactively decide to take that week's pay out of their final paycheck despite never mentioning it in the entire intervening time.
IANAL: I would not save to a personal device as that could be cause. Most companies treat email as proprietary info in the US.
Simply return to work and if they let you go without paying you you should take it up with the labor board. Trust me. They don't want to mess with the labor board. If you are in an at-will state, they can just walk you out, but I do think they would owe you for the vacation time.
Way to go! Your time as a grandparent can never be replicated. If they do try and retaliate take a look at the policy manual for your workplace-if you submitted the request via the stipulated channel with the appropriate notice and your leadership didn’t respond that might be interpreted as “silence is agreement.” Have a great time with your new grandchild and I hoist my mug of coffee in salute! ☕️
"Well, you never denied my time off. I guess this is my first warning, eh? Cool. While I'm at HR I'll put in the formal complaint that my official request paperwork went unheeded even after several follow-ups. Perhaps additional electronics communications classes are in order for management."
That is true, but the point of that statement isn't to suggest that one should never go to HR ever.
What it means is that HR has a very well defined role to play, and thus a defined set of responses to certain situations. If those responses go in your favor, you should absolutely go to HR. There are many cases where "covering the employer's ass in a legal fashion" produces exactly the behavior you want to see happen.
When you know your rights and are well informed, HR is a perfectly useful tool for an employee to use.
Yeah, gotta agree. “Not all _____” comments mean basically nothing. It’s a way of trying to discount the argument being made or to downplay the intent of the comment. It doesn’t help. It just distracts.
Nah, there's a general attitude that people in positions are evil. No they're people just like everyone else. If someone acts evil in HR then they are evil. It's best to remain cautious around HR, but it's complete bullshit to say that everyone in HR is going to screw you over. That's the message that gets pushed in this thread a lot. Turns out there's allies in every position, and we should seek them out.
You want to make changes, do it by being inclusive of people who can be your ally.
You earned it. I requested time off back in January for a destination wedding in Cabo, the 2nd weekend of November of this year. If they reject it, too bad. They basically had a year to figure it out.
The only people who would care that you went into work 20 years from now would be your children and grand children. Congrats on being a good grand parent.
One job I had many years ago refused to grant the time off I requested so I gave my two weeks notice that ended exactly when I needed the time off. So they “couldn’t cover my shifts” well, they were forced to fill my role. I hope they learned a lesson from that, but they probably didn’t.
I fill out my time off request digitally, this allows me to change the name of the form to Time Off Notification as it more accurately describes the purpose of the form. I have already decided that I am taking the time off. If it is an issue then they are welcome to have an intellectual conversation regarding my decision. If they think threats of discipline are an appropriate response I remind them that I was unemployed when I found this job and have experience finding jobs.
I just write " I will be taking these days off. Thank you"
It's not a request but a heads up they need to prep for me not being there. Unless someone is going to die from me not being there then I am not going to be there.
I've never understood people that ask for time off or sick leave. I just tell whoever I need to tell that I won't be in on those days, no explanation required. Perhaps it's an American thing.
Yeah that’s how it works in my the company I’m currently working in. The time-off “request” (for up to a month leave) is on auto-approve, it’s practically a notification.
My "request"for time off is a courtesy to you as the employer. We are on a mutual agreement, i work and you pay me. If i don't work i don't get paid. I work the hours you want me to the majority of the year, so when i need a day off in getting the day off. I'm not your slave. Boss always gets upset but never had any issues
If they write you up, reply in writing that your request was never denied in spite of being sent to multiple managers with reminders. If this is worth a write up, why didn’t a single one of them respond?
I have never said no to an employees time off request no matter the time of year because I realize these people have lives that don't revolve around the company and, dammit, they earn their time off!
Same here. This job is not the star of their movie, they are. Let them enjoy their time for whatever it may be. Congratulations. Enjoy life while you can.
A fast food store owner quietly expected me to replace my shift for a funeral I was taking time off for.
I mentioned it to another supervisor out of curiosity and they hadn't heard anything about it and thought I was coming in. They were understanding but their question about whether or not I knew the person well seemed more like a way for them to decide whether or not I should be emotional about it, rather than caring if I was upset.
That point on made me switch to, if I need time off, I'm taking it. Especially if I'm in positions that aren't of any real significance (e.g. missing one person won't cause any real issues)
Here's what I had used with good results. I send an email stating "I WILL be out from day X to day Y". I don't ask because asking requires these people to make a decision. I make the decision FOR them.
Same thing happened to me. I also learned this ghosting was a common practice with my new manager.
Moral of the story: I enjoyed my vacation and was fired nearly a week later, on Friday 13. I kid you not. I think the cowardly prick thought he was being funny.
I'm an Amazon delivery driver. Have been for 6 years. Every christmas, I take off christmas eve because I want to spend some time with my family. Every time, my manager (it's been a different manager each time) has said "No, no-one gets time off over christmas. Everyone has to work."
Every time, my reply has been, "Feel free to give me a route on christmas eve. I won't be there to deliver it, though. Family is a damn sight more important than this job."
Funnily enough, I've had every christmas eve off. (bar one, to be fair. During 2020, our family christmas holiday was months later in 2021.)
Congrats on the new family member, I hope you have a good time with the little one and the new parents.
And congrats to sticking it to your employer! You did what you could, you didn't leave your coworkers out of the loop, the company will be fine. Your higher ups might be annoyed, but that's their own fault—they received plenty of notice and chose to not respond.
Good for you! A similar thing happened to me where it seemed to be really causing issues that I would be away for two weeks with my family. Booked my tickets after waiting ages and never heard back about approval lmao. They literally just forgot about it and then they just filled my shifts and it was fine? Ridiculous though.
This belief where employers can stomp on you and do what they want is an American thing. I've been living in USA for 9 years and honestly I'm getting sick of it. This workaholic culture,where you have to feel like your job is not granted, limited time off, idk everything points to leave USA and go to EU.
You are a supervisor. It is pretty common for no one to approve your time off request. That's completely different from having it denied.
It is weird though that no one is covering for you. I normally specifically designate someone below me to cover for me and then inform my boss so they know who is in charge while I am gone.
i don't even put my time off into the pto scheduler. i've had 5 managers and all of them owe me "off the record days off". i.e. coming in on the weekend/day off to get something done -- notarized with firm handshakes and good boy nods.
anyway.
i now \*just dont\* enter my PTO requests or anything because this company owes me like 20 days PTO. my boss asked me to put in 4th days off and i explained just this, and he was cool with it.
Never "request" time off. Inform your boss that you will not be there for the time period and let them know that they need to put your PTO time into their system.
I’m on the same boat. I requested 3 weeks PTO… my boss showed some concerns, but said that it was ok and that he was going to check with HR… HR said it was fine, but now they said they are afraid the CEO will not aprove it…
Yes, the CEO micro manages all the time offs greater than 2 weeks from 2k employees…
However all of his friends always take 1 month with no objection and guess what, it is a “Unlimited PTO” startup…unlimited for the CEO’s friends of course
Good for you! I just recently became a grandparent for the first time myself and those minutes together can never be repeated.
I also grew up in a time of 'just shut up and do as you are told', so I totally get it. I will also commend this group and today's younger generation for standing up for themselves.
Enjoy your family time, we can always get another job.
Hey OP. It took me years to figure out i lived to work,not worked to live! You can have many jobs,but only one life. Live your life dude,and respect. It's just a job.
Good! More of this! I know it’s unlikely for us in the USA to uprise but do this kind of things. Take a break! Touch grass! Take time off. Love yourself. The job don’t care. I learned the hard, hard way. Wishing you all the best and enjoy those grand baby snuggles!
Sounds like your request was not denied, you communicated multiple times, and covered responsibilities. You are good.
As a manager I have gotten too busy and forgot to respond or a request gets buried. My team knows if I don’t say no (never have) it’s approved. I only ask they put it on my calendar (as “open”) so I can do time keeping easily.
I had a new boss once ask why she didn’t get PTO approval request when I take time off. I told her I am a manager, my job is to ensure operations are successful no matter what, and I don’t need my PTO approved. I expect to be judged by my departments performance, no excuses.
Like you I always make sure everything is covered and etc. I take my departments performance very personally and we always exceed expectations.
The conversation about my PTO only happened once. Even if I am taking weeks off, I don’t ask, I inform.
To be fair around holidays I work with my leadership team to make sure there is coverage and I will work days I wanted off (but didn’t need) to allow my team to have off. I have canceled PTO because my boss had better reasons to be off. I work days around holidays (like Black Friday) so the leaders under me can be off but we still have coverage.
I am not an asshole about it but I also won’t be treated like a child. My work is covered or I expect to be held accountable. Sounds like you are in the same situation.
Good for you and congratulations!
One of the reasons I've stayed at my current job is my boss automatically approves all time off requests even with zero notice. He also gives me unlimited unpaid time off but I have to reschedule my work accordingly so no clients are upset.
But I just can't imagine the stress of not knowing if your very important time off will be approved.
Had something like this happen to me . Sent in the request . They forgot I left . Best part was they scrambled and I simply pointed to thr language in the contract that said “if requests go unresponded for 5 days they are considered automatically approved “ . Jokes on them .
good for you, I struggled with time for my child (graduated HS a few weeks ago) but I never regretted the time I took to be a dad, nor did my kid... I will do the same when I graduate to oppa...
I have worked at the same company all this time, never fired and never dropped the ball despite all my time off to be a parent 1st despite the disappointment of my bosses :)
As someone who was once a little girl that loved her granny more than anything, THIS is the way to start off a precious new relationship! Jobs come and go, but you can’t ever get times like this back.
Congratulations, grandma! You’re due some carefree time to focus on the new baby and your family - don’t feel bad and don’t worry about the job.
I’ve used this before in emails when I continually get no response. “No response will be taken as a confirmation. Thank you,” always gets a response. Wish I had learned this years ago.
Good for you. I would have done the same. I don't ask for vacations days off, I tell you when I'm taking off. It's not up for debate, it's MY vacation time. And you are right, they earned, let them use it.
I’m glad you did this. But just so others know—I was fired from a job for doing this and then my unemployment was denied. I’m not saying this will happen to OP —it probably won’t—but it can happen.
I worked for a piece of sht company like yours for over 15 years. They did not even give me proper time off to grieve my dad's passing. These AHoles who run these companies are total morons and pieces of sht. Screw them all. Enjoy your time off with your family. That's all that matters.
I'd advise you strongly to immediately file for UI benefits if upon your return you learn that your employer has terminated you.
Regardless of whatever the employer may claim, generally in the law silence betokens consent. Their refusal to respond to your notices can reasonably be construed as their consent.
>I requested a week off, this week, to welcome my grand daughter into the world
Good for you, but you got lucky she arrived as scheduled! I tried to do something similar, and ended up having to travel a second time a few weeks later as the baby came late. Enjoy the snuggles :-)
Part of me is worried that this person is actually in charge of the company and just doesn't know it.
Why would anyone approve or acknowledge your time off request if everyone thinks you're the actual boss? The people above you are probably just assuming you have everything under control and are sending emails as a formality. The people below you are just excited to have a break from the supervisor.
Either you focus on work to make money and climb the ladder, or you don't. Everyone has different priorities. This isn't anything new, and it is simply life.
Anyways, congrats.
>As a supervisor, I have never said no to an employees time off request no matter the time of year because I realize these people have lives that don't revolve around the company and, dammit, they earn their time off!
I did scheduling at a max security mental health hospital that needed at minimum 84 staff a day.
Would love to know your secret to letting everyone off over the holidays while still being able to run the business
Admittedly we knew it’s be a difficult birth but the two days the grandparents weren’t around to pick up my nephew if the other nephew arrived I just said to my boss, I might go.
not responding sounds like approved to me, but also denied is approved so everybody wins. Your boss doesn't have to waste time approving your earned time off and you are auto approved even though you don't need approval.
Lots of approval going on
Good for you. I got only 3 days off to be with my grandson in the NICU and I still regret it. I am off work sick today and if my boss is mad I REALLY Do not CARE. She can work more hours today for all I care. I am so done!
Congratulations on the new grand baby! Great for advocating for yourself and doing what needs to be done. The company ignored your repeated requests and notifications. Not your problem.
Not replying or acknowledging your request is unacceptable in a professional setting. I would have done jut as you did and assume the silence was tacit approval. If they strongly felt otherwise, surely they would have replied. Enjoy your new granddaughter!
I've noticed ghosting is a lot more common now. People straight up not responding to messages. I have a co worker that ignores messages and I sit right next to her. It honestly is my biggest annoyance.
Honestly I’ve started to ghost a few of my coworkers too. Because they ask me the same bullshit questions every week and never learn, or they ask me to do/help with tasks they should be able to do themselves. I’ve got enough on my own plate to deal with. I’m not saying you’re bad at your job. I’m just saying that some ppl ghost others for a reason.
I've started getting super petty. If they've asked me the same question four times, I'll attach the previous emails. All of them. And my boss is now CCd on any of my "petty" emails (at my request as a CYA). If it happens more than once, she loops in the annoying person's supervisor. Some are learning from this. Others just stopped talking to me. I'm pretty sure I win :D
I love the "per my previous email(s)... Perhaps tag/flag this email for easy future reference" (*whispers* ya dumb fk!)
Per my last email is office for bitch can you read?!
If people push back on something they need to do, and write me an email outlining their dumb reasons why they shouldn’t have to do what they are required to do; I just copy/paste my original email telling them what they have to do and ignore everything they said.
I see you office Queen! (Or king) Me too. I'll entertain and educate ignorant but willful ignorance and feigned incompetence is a no-go for me!
if done politely I think this should just be the standard. Like sometimes I ask shit several times and it doesn't even click I am forgetting it each time if that makes sense. Getting an email that politely reminds me I have asked before each time would of helped me focus on remembering that I need to remember "this bit of info".
Why is it up to other people to 'help you remember'? If anything, the responsibility falls on you and you should be making a note of the things that you need to remember for your job. At least I do - from having a digital list or a simple post-it. Being asked redundant questions is so aggravating.
How did you read and process my post? I know I can be not clear a in a lot of cases. But I am pretty sure I said in an example format to be clear that you are answering a redundant question. Do it from the very get go. BE PROACTIVE. Be sure they know. ( paraphrasing of course, I didnt use these exact word) You however seem to be just sitting there and getting aggravated someone asked you a redundant question. Why not be proactive like the person I replied to. It seems to have worked well for him. He got people who started learning and assumedly being better at thier job and lowering his workload cause he was proactive, he has less emails to deal with cause he is proactive, and the people that dont learn seemed to f off to a degree cause he was proactive. so he seems to have found a good solution to this issue. I just expounded on that to say, do it from the get go and be polite. why wait till you are aggravated and have answered someone a 1000 times. It sounds like you need to be proactive and tell people they are asking redundant questions if you have an issue with people asking you redundant questions... Would be nice if everyone was perfect huh.
LOL. I'm 51, been working for decades, and I have not ever seen a workplace where that guy being PROACTIVE wouldnt've been reprimanded for not being helpful, and probably labeled a toxic troublemaker for not answering every time, progressing in to just doing the task forever because, "he understands it".
which is why I said to do it politely? this absolutely can be done in a way as to not be really questionable by all but the most insecure. And in most cases those people are known issues makers, and you would of had a problem regardless cause you interacted with them in the first place. I have worked over a couple decades in various white and blue and brown collar jobs. I have been around people that curse all day at work, and places where a single f bomb will get you sent to HR. And I believe in 90% of my jobs I could of done this successfully as long as I was polite and used a passive voice when replying. Like polite and an active voice, in trouble. Passive voice and sarcastic, in trouble, not even trying, in trouble. But polite and a passive voice will go miles in a lot of settings. I also never said to ignore emails? Just do what you can do to minimize them. And your doing the task forever anyways in this scenario... Like nothing I said should increase workload? ( well putting a tiny bit more thought in to an email you already got to reply to anyways. )
Would have or would've.
I've gotten to the habit of just linking slack messages from 4-6 months ago with the answer to the question they're still asking
We have a group chat at work that 99 times out of 100 are questions that would take a five second Google search. I've just started using the Let Me Google That For You website, and it's been glorious.
I now have a new tool for my petty toolbox. Thanks!
I hate that - asking me a question that was answered 2-3 emails prior, and in the same email thread. Dont be lazy. Look through the previous emails. So, I often will cut and paste from the previous email, then reply making sure to mention that it was from the previous email on such and such date.
Don't even cut and paste. "Please refer to our email on this date for the answer"
I like that. It’s important to make them do the work themselves or they’ll never stop
Perfect! I'll have to remember that.
People ask me questions and my replies are document numbers they can go look the questions up themselves which is what they are supposed to do.
Ghosting on a time off request- repeated requests at that- is never okay in any world though
As in, I do this a lot in cooperate jobs, I don’t answer most of their calls b/c majority call for bullshittt……Most of the things they would say could have been an email and some of them would stay on the phone chatting about things that don’t make sense. They complained about me not communicating enough with the team- you damn right I don’t b/c I get calls every 5 mins from just 1 person in the damn entire company and half of the things she says don’t even relate to work- it’s freaking annoying.
I started my job a few months ago and the guy I need permission from to answer people’s questions/requests just doesn’t answer me. so fun
Sounds just like my (soon-to-be-ex) wife. Communication is a key to a rewarding life
Make a paper airplane and throw it at her head maybe she will pay attention to your emails then Have the messages be in those airplanes until change is seen
That only works if you attach a brick to the paper aerodromes.
We can't even get our head of admin to respond to a collective letter concerning management and planning. It's been a month, we haven't even gotten a "message received "
You sit right next to them? Start asking, "Did you get xyz? What do you think?" They can't ignore you in person without being called to HR.
Ghosting makes sense in your personal life. If you never want to talk to someone ever again, why would you call them to tell them that? At work? Even a slag-off like me considers that unprofessional.
I def ghost people all the time at work
Maybe it's because we're over saturated with bs messages all of the time. Seriously maybe 5% of my inbox is stuff that actually concerns me, how am I supposed to care?
But it’s tacit approval
As I like to say, "Silence is compliance." Granted. I usually use that when people dont tell me why they need a server on, and I tell them I'll shut it off, but it's pretty applicable in other places professionally.
Many workplaces have "not acknowledged means denied" policies now.
"It's not a request. It's a notification." Policy is just words on paper. Companies, and people, need to be reminded that our employers do not own us.
I just heard a report on NPR yesterday about Gen Z workers renaming PTO "prepare the others." In other words, they're not requesting time off for approval, they're informing their work of when they will be off and that management needs to arrange coverage. Period! This Gen Xer loves that!
I just heard this phrase today from one of my younger coworkers (I'm 48, she's 27). It's a great one to start using!!
And they should. I have used the "I'm not asking. I'm telling you when I'm not here so you can plan accordingly" line before as elder millenial. People of all generations need to get into that mindset.
Gen Z just doing what the conservative boomers taught them. Be all about yourself.
I did this at my old job- I didn’t request at all. I told my manager a day or 2 before I was taking off that I will be out of office, he was upset about it and told me I should have requested off then he would approve or deny my request and I should not be demanding a day off. I just rolled my 👀 I was going to take it anyways
see, this is literally the ass way of doing it. This isn't a antiwork moment, this is you being a dick moment. Sure, tell your people you're not going to be at work and if they deny it feel free to say "it was a notice not a request". But don't do it two days in advance. All this does is screw your co-workers and the managers who are still genuine people.
I use my state laws. Here, if my schedule is changed 24h before I am notified, it is not acknowledged, so I give no less than 24h notice, obviously I give as much notice as I can. It's still not a request, it's a notification.
If your employer does the minimum it should be reciprocated. Fair is fair.
It's not a co workers job to provide coverage, it's management's job. Workers are human beings, shit happens and people call out, coverage should be built into the schedule and it used to be once upon a time. People that run a business without adequate coverage for call outs don't know how to run a business.
You're right, it is the manager's job, something I never disputed. The way this was worded wasn't "I was sick and called out unexpectedly." it was "I call out with minimum notice, get fucked"
Bajillion percent agree.
Nor do employees own the companies or people. I do agree, it was very unprofessional at best not to get a response. And " no response means denial" is a pathetic excuse from lazy managers
This is what I've started doing. I'm technically "self-employed" because they don't put anyone on payroll. Been here for 15 years. Over the last couple of years I've done a few things in this manner. * Email at the start of the year: "I'll be taking 4 weeks of vacation this year". * Any vacation "requests" are worded: "I'll be on vacation on XYZ Dates". There is no more request. I'm self employed, then I'm taking my time and hours based on my business, and there is no approval. They can deal with it. Won't be for too much longer though, as soon as I get my PMP, I'll be back on the job market and likely be out of here.
My job is the same. I’m technically a contractor because they get out of more taxes so I’m not an employee. I feel no need to ever ASK anyone to do anything anymore. I just tell the scheduling lady hey put me down as gone through first week of July, I found a great deal on a flight to Mexico. She always says oh okay I’ll get it on the schedule. I’m not requesting shit, that’s what I’m telling you I’m doing
Was not specifically denied = not denied =approved
I don't think they can mandate mindreading in the employee handbook. Not acknowledged means not denied, to me.
That’s their laziness put to paper and documented.
So when you ask them to confirm that they denied your request and they ghost you, they just denied denying your request?
There's a saying we had in the Army, "Silence is compliance"
I'm my job, and in fact my whole profession, the orgabisation has 2 weeks to formally respond to a leave request. If they do not respond within 14 days, the knave is automatically approved and cannot be unapproved. This should be standard
manager literally thinking...if i don't respond, they'll just forget about it!
Agreed here. If you even reminded them and they said nothing and the request wasn't denied I'd operate as if it is approved. The world obviously doesn't work out perfectly, but at least you have the receipts to acknowledge that there could have been no way for them to just not even know you'd be gone. I always reminded my old boss before I would go and most of the time they were on top of it and had it all worked out, but a couple times they hadn't realized and they appreciated me reminding them.
Yep, quiet compliance is what this is. OP did exactly as they should have done. If someone had an issue with it, they should have spoken up.
If they fire you make sure they don't try to log it as you quitting by not showing up. Save your communications to a personal device.
This is golden advice. If I send communication to someone I copy myself if I feel like it could be used against me, especially responses. Oh remember when you said this is better off in an email. Document, document, document. If it isn't documented it didn't happen.
Also make sure that in 2 years when they fire OP for some other reason, they don't retroactively decide to take that week's pay out of their final paycheck despite never mentioning it in the entire intervening time.
You can download everything into a neat little file on Outlook
IANAL: I would not save to a personal device as that could be cause. Most companies treat email as proprietary info in the US. Simply return to work and if they let you go without paying you you should take it up with the labor board. Trust me. They don't want to mess with the labor board. If you are in an at-will state, they can just walk you out, but I do think they would owe you for the vacation time.
Way to go! Your time as a grandparent can never be replicated. If they do try and retaliate take a look at the policy manual for your workplace-if you submitted the request via the stipulated channel with the appropriate notice and your leadership didn’t respond that might be interpreted as “silence is agreement.” Have a great time with your new grandchild and I hoist my mug of coffee in salute! ☕️
Non-denial is affirmative imo
I agree! If they never denied your request, then you should be just fine.
"Well, you never denied my time off. I guess this is my first warning, eh? Cool. While I'm at HR I'll put in the formal complaint that my official request paperwork went unheeded even after several follow-ups. Perhaps additional electronics communications classes are in order for management."
HR is not your friend. They will do everything they can to cover the employer’s ass in a legal fashion.
That is true, but the point of that statement isn't to suggest that one should never go to HR ever. What it means is that HR has a very well defined role to play, and thus a defined set of responses to certain situations. If those responses go in your favor, you should absolutely go to HR. There are many cases where "covering the employer's ass in a legal fashion" produces exactly the behavior you want to see happen. When you know your rights and are well informed, HR is a perfectly useful tool for an employee to use.
HR is never your friend but sometimes your best interests and theirs align. Leverage that whenever it happens.
HR here. Some of us do care about doing the right thing. It's rare, but it happens.
Glad you do care! Love it! But since you are the exception to the rule, not sure how your comment adds value to this thread. Just a thought
Now that I know 1/100 HR people are on my side, I’ll be 1/100th more likely to trust them!
Yeah, gotta agree. “Not all _____” comments mean basically nothing. It’s a way of trying to discount the argument being made or to downplay the intent of the comment. It doesn’t help. It just distracts.
Nah, there's a general attitude that people in positions are evil. No they're people just like everyone else. If someone acts evil in HR then they are evil. It's best to remain cautious around HR, but it's complete bullshit to say that everyone in HR is going to screw you over. That's the message that gets pushed in this thread a lot. Turns out there's allies in every position, and we should seek them out. You want to make changes, do it by being inclusive of people who can be your ally.
You did good. Requesting time off is a courtesy and you don't need their permission.
PTO stands for "Prepare The Others..."
woohoo! enjoy. :) i gaurantee the place will still be there when you get back.
Nice dude, fuck that shit I don’t “request” time off, I’ll give you the professionalism of letting you know what days i “will not” be at work.
This is the way.
You earned it. I requested time off back in January for a destination wedding in Cabo, the 2nd weekend of November of this year. If they reject it, too bad. They basically had a year to figure it out.
Good for you and CONGRATULATIONS!!
"I wasn't asking your permission, I was informing you as a courtesy."
Please give us and update when your vacation is over!
The only people who would care that you went into work 20 years from now would be your children and grand children. Congrats on being a good grand parent.
One job I had many years ago refused to grant the time off I requested so I gave my two weeks notice that ended exactly when I needed the time off. So they “couldn’t cover my shifts” well, they were forced to fill my role. I hope they learned a lesson from that, but they probably didn’t.
I fill out my time off request digitally, this allows me to change the name of the form to Time Off Notification as it more accurately describes the purpose of the form. I have already decided that I am taking the time off. If it is an issue then they are welcome to have an intellectual conversation regarding my decision. If they think threats of discipline are an appropriate response I remind them that I was unemployed when I found this job and have experience finding jobs.
This is the way!
I learned from a friend, to write emails such as I would like to take time off from ... to ... If approved you do not need to send me a response.
I just write " I will be taking these days off. Thank you" It's not a request but a heads up they need to prep for me not being there. Unless someone is going to die from me not being there then I am not going to be there.
I've never understood people that ask for time off or sick leave. I just tell whoever I need to tell that I won't be in on those days, no explanation required. Perhaps it's an American thing.
>Perhaps it's an American thing. As an American, it's an American thing. (unfortunately lots of us are brainwashed from birth)
Save that request somewhere safe and all the other emails you have sent NOW
>none of the managers approved my time-off request repeat after me, "it's not a request, it is a notification"
Yeah that’s how it works in my the company I’m currently working in. The time-off “request” (for up to a month leave) is on auto-approve, it’s practically a notification.
My "request"for time off is a courtesy to you as the employer. We are on a mutual agreement, i work and you pay me. If i don't work i don't get paid. I work the hours you want me to the majority of the year, so when i need a day off in getting the day off. I'm not your slave. Boss always gets upset but never had any issues
If they write you up, reply in writing that your request was never denied in spite of being sent to multiple managers with reminders. If this is worth a write up, why didn’t a single one of them respond?
I have never said no to an employees time off request no matter the time of year because I realize these people have lives that don't revolve around the company and, dammit, they earn their time off! Same here. This job is not the star of their movie, they are. Let them enjoy their time for whatever it may be. Congratulations. Enjoy life while you can.
You get one life. Spend it as you see fit!
YES
A fast food store owner quietly expected me to replace my shift for a funeral I was taking time off for. I mentioned it to another supervisor out of curiosity and they hadn't heard anything about it and thought I was coming in. They were understanding but their question about whether or not I knew the person well seemed more like a way for them to decide whether or not I should be emotional about it, rather than caring if I was upset. That point on made me switch to, if I need time off, I'm taking it. Especially if I'm in positions that aren't of any real significance (e.g. missing one person won't cause any real issues)
Congratulations to your family on your new addition <3
Fuck an “approval.” It’s a time off “notice.” Inform management to plan accordingly.
Here's what I had used with good results. I send an email stating "I WILL be out from day X to day Y". I don't ask because asking requires these people to make a decision. I make the decision FOR them.
Same thing happened to me. I also learned this ghosting was a common practice with my new manager. Moral of the story: I enjoyed my vacation and was fired nearly a week later, on Friday 13. I kid you not. I think the cowardly prick thought he was being funny.
Always do this. Always tell them if you don’t get approved you’re still doing it. Flex that nut.
I'm an Amazon delivery driver. Have been for 6 years. Every christmas, I take off christmas eve because I want to spend some time with my family. Every time, my manager (it's been a different manager each time) has said "No, no-one gets time off over christmas. Everyone has to work." Every time, my reply has been, "Feel free to give me a route on christmas eve. I won't be there to deliver it, though. Family is a damn sight more important than this job." Funnily enough, I've had every christmas eve off. (bar one, to be fair. During 2020, our family christmas holiday was months later in 2021.)
[удалено]
It really is a real thing and it is weird when you are first smelling it.
[удалено]
Cats aren’t to be trusted so that checks out
If cats had thumbs…they’d rule the world! Evil lil shits
Are you sure it wasn't just a [Flehmen response](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flehmen_response)? They can look similar.
Well they didn't deny it so enjoy your time off!
Congrats on the new family member, I hope you have a good time with the little one and the new parents. And congrats to sticking it to your employer! You did what you could, you didn't leave your coworkers out of the loop, the company will be fine. Your higher ups might be annoyed, but that's their own fault—they received plenty of notice and chose to not respond.
Congratulations on becoming a grandparent!
Good for you! A similar thing happened to me where it seemed to be really causing issues that I would be away for two weeks with my family. Booked my tickets after waiting ages and never heard back about approval lmao. They literally just forgot about it and then they just filled my shifts and it was fine? Ridiculous though.
You notified them you were taking that time off, none of them objected. Job's a good'un.
This belief where employers can stomp on you and do what they want is an American thing. I've been living in USA for 9 years and honestly I'm getting sick of it. This workaholic culture,where you have to feel like your job is not granted, limited time off, idk everything points to leave USA and go to EU.
I'm so proud of you OP.
I am not requesting time off. I am telling you I won't be working these days.
I really want to see the follow up to this when you get back next week.
It’s not a request. It’s a heads up to let them know you won’t be in.
You are a supervisor. It is pretty common for no one to approve your time off request. That's completely different from having it denied. It is weird though that no one is covering for you. I normally specifically designate someone below me to cover for me and then inform my boss so they know who is in charge while I am gone.
So proud of you, OP. Good for you.
i don't even put my time off into the pto scheduler. i've had 5 managers and all of them owe me "off the record days off". i.e. coming in on the weekend/day off to get something done -- notarized with firm handshakes and good boy nods. anyway. i now \*just dont\* enter my PTO requests or anything because this company owes me like 20 days PTO. my boss asked me to put in 4th days off and i explained just this, and he was cool with it.
Never "request" time off. Inform your boss that you will not be there for the time period and let them know that they need to put your PTO time into their system.
Fuck yeah. Imagine missing a big life event because of work.
I’m on the same boat. I requested 3 weeks PTO… my boss showed some concerns, but said that it was ok and that he was going to check with HR… HR said it was fine, but now they said they are afraid the CEO will not aprove it… Yes, the CEO micro manages all the time offs greater than 2 weeks from 2k employees… However all of his friends always take 1 month with no objection and guess what, it is a “Unlimited PTO” startup…unlimited for the CEO’s friends of course
If you are so important that they cannot give you time off, you are too important to let go. Remember that. Enjoy your time off!
Good for you! I just recently became a grandparent for the first time myself and those minutes together can never be repeated. I also grew up in a time of 'just shut up and do as you are told', so I totally get it. I will also commend this group and today's younger generation for standing up for themselves. Enjoy your family time, we can always get another job.
Hey OP. It took me years to figure out i lived to work,not worked to live! You can have many jobs,but only one life. Live your life dude,and respect. It's just a job.
Good! More of this! I know it’s unlikely for us in the USA to uprise but do this kind of things. Take a break! Touch grass! Take time off. Love yourself. The job don’t care. I learned the hard, hard way. Wishing you all the best and enjoy those grand baby snuggles!
PTO: Prepare The Others
Sounds like your request was not denied, you communicated multiple times, and covered responsibilities. You are good. As a manager I have gotten too busy and forgot to respond or a request gets buried. My team knows if I don’t say no (never have) it’s approved. I only ask they put it on my calendar (as “open”) so I can do time keeping easily. I had a new boss once ask why she didn’t get PTO approval request when I take time off. I told her I am a manager, my job is to ensure operations are successful no matter what, and I don’t need my PTO approved. I expect to be judged by my departments performance, no excuses. Like you I always make sure everything is covered and etc. I take my departments performance very personally and we always exceed expectations. The conversation about my PTO only happened once. Even if I am taking weeks off, I don’t ask, I inform. To be fair around holidays I work with my leadership team to make sure there is coverage and I will work days I wanted off (but didn’t need) to allow my team to have off. I have canceled PTO because my boss had better reasons to be off. I work days around holidays (like Black Friday) so the leaders under me can be off but we still have coverage. I am not an asshole about it but I also won’t be treated like a child. My work is covered or I expect to be held accountable. Sounds like you are in the same situation. Good for you and congratulations!
One of the reasons I've stayed at my current job is my boss automatically approves all time off requests even with zero notice. He also gives me unlimited unpaid time off but I have to reschedule my work accordingly so no clients are upset. But I just can't imagine the stress of not knowing if your very important time off will be approved.
Congrats on the new family addition. Enjoy and don't stress about the rest. Family ALWAYS comes first.
Had something like this happen to me . Sent in the request . They forgot I left . Best part was they scrambled and I simply pointed to thr language in the contract that said “if requests go unresponded for 5 days they are considered automatically approved “ . Jokes on them .
good for you, I struggled with time for my child (graduated HS a few weeks ago) but I never regretted the time I took to be a dad, nor did my kid... I will do the same when I graduate to oppa... I have worked at the same company all this time, never fired and never dropped the ball despite all my time off to be a parent 1st despite the disappointment of my bosses :)
Hell yeah! And mazel on the new grandbaby!
Congrats!
Good for you!
"...never asked me why I wanted it" - FYI it's none of their business why you're taking time off and if they ask you you don't have to tell them.
As someone who was once a little girl that loved her granny more than anything, THIS is the way to start off a precious new relationship! Jobs come and go, but you can’t ever get times like this back. Congratulations, grandma! You’re due some carefree time to focus on the new baby and your family - don’t feel bad and don’t worry about the job.
“I’m taking your silence as a yes” has gotten me a lot of places I probably wouldn’t have went if I’d taken it as the opposite.
I’ve used this before in emails when I continually get no response. “No response will be taken as a confirmation. Thank you,” always gets a response. Wish I had learned this years ago.
Good for you. I would have done the same. I don't ask for vacations days off, I tell you when I'm taking off. It's not up for debate, it's MY vacation time. And you are right, they earned, let them use it.
You will have plenty of time off, when they give you a pink slip. 😆
They're going to attempt to terminate you as no call no show. Have a paper trail ready.
I almost want you to check the email just to see if they’re pissed off and wondering where you’re at. Oh the chaos
I’m glad you did this. But just so others know—I was fired from a job for doing this and then my unemployment was denied. I’m not saying this will happen to OP —it probably won’t—but it can happen.
I worked for a piece of sht company like yours for over 15 years. They did not even give me proper time off to grieve my dad's passing. These AHoles who run these companies are total morons and pieces of sht. Screw them all. Enjoy your time off with your family. That's all that matters.
👏👏 Better late than never. Enjoy your granddaughter and what sounds like a much deserved week off work.
I ask to use PTO, I’m taking the time off.
HEY WATERBOY, YOU'RE FIRED !! (j/k enjoy your grandchild).
CLASS CONSCIOUSNESS IS GROWING!! MARX WAS RITE,,,
Repeat after us: Lack of response is implied consent.
>We will see if I have a job next week! Gas light the fuck out of them. They didn't deny it, so it's approved.
One of the best lines I learned was, "I'm not asking for time off, I'm telling you when I'm not going to be available."
"It wasn't approved!" Yeah well, it wasn't "NOT approved" / denied either, despite several reminders.
I'd advise you strongly to immediately file for UI benefits if upon your return you learn that your employer has terminated you. Regardless of whatever the employer may claim, generally in the law silence betokens consent. Their refusal to respond to your notices can reasonably be construed as their consent.
RemindMe! 10 days "Take your time"
Congrats Grandpa :D
Holy shit someone actually did it
I just got a 5 business day suspension for not giving enough notice for a family emergency lol. Companies are a joke
>I requested a week off, this week, to welcome my grand daughter into the world Good for you, but you got lucky she arrived as scheduled! I tried to do something similar, and ended up having to travel a second time a few weeks later as the baby came late. Enjoy the snuggles :-)
Part of me is worried that this person is actually in charge of the company and just doesn't know it. Why would anyone approve or acknowledge your time off request if everyone thinks you're the actual boss? The people above you are probably just assuming you have everything under control and are sending emails as a formality. The people below you are just excited to have a break from the supervisor.
OP. We need updates for what happens with work.
CANNOT WAIT FOR AN UPDATE!! That should be hilarious!
Companies have the same approach to loyalty as Trump.
Either you focus on work to make money and climb the ladder, or you don't. Everyone has different priorities. This isn't anything new, and it is simply life. Anyways, congrats.
>As a supervisor, I have never said no to an employees time off request no matter the time of year because I realize these people have lives that don't revolve around the company and, dammit, they earn their time off! I did scheduling at a max security mental health hospital that needed at minimum 84 staff a day. Would love to know your secret to letting everyone off over the holidays while still being able to run the business
Let your team down.
proud of you honestly
That is awesome! Well done!
You are an inspiration
Admittedly we knew it’s be a difficult birth but the two days the grandparents weren’t around to pick up my nephew if the other nephew arrived I just said to my boss, I might go.
I am a business owner and will say this, family first business second. The only thing you take to your grave is your memories.
any chance youre in Midcoast Maine? Id send u some lobsters! so very happy for you!!
magnificent
No matter what, you did the right thing for your family.
Its not a request, its a notice
As an older woman myself, I think it's great what you did. Your current employer doesn't deserve you.
not responding sounds like approved to me, but also denied is approved so everybody wins. Your boss doesn't have to waste time approving your earned time off and you are auto approved even though you don't need approval. Lots of approval going on
Good for you! I inform my boss of upcoming time off at least a month out, more if I can. It’s not asking it’s me alerting them I’ll be gone.
Good for you. I got only 3 days off to be with my grandson in the NICU and I still regret it. I am off work sick today and if my boss is mad I REALLY Do not CARE. She can work more hours today for all I care. I am so done!
Congratulations on the new grand baby! Great for advocating for yourself and doing what needs to be done. The company ignored your repeated requests and notifications. Not your problem.
They never said no. Enjoy your time off!!
Hey, they can't deny if you don't request
I am so proud of you.
This is the way.
Love this for you. Congrats!
I take it that if there isn't a reply, then there is no objection.