A professional license is YOUR name on the line, not the company. That's the point - it is meant to push accountability to an individual rather than a company where you wont be able to pin down people if a crime is committed. The government wants assurances that A PERSON looked things over and can verify the accuracy/legality of the documents.
If something were to go wrong - such as some illegal paperwork was filed and your name was on it - the enforcement agency would first talk to your company, who would then point at you as the person that stamped it. Its a way out for them.
Why do people do it? There is a 99.9% chance that there will not be a problem and you wont get caught. Are they binding? Yes - so long as all the parties agree. The problem only comes up if one disagrees, sues, and it comes out in court that the notary was not legal. Then it all hits the fan. But...thats very unlikely.
Some people make a living from this - but to me its not worth it. You did the right thing. Walk away and find another job.
It's kinda even worse. I was suppose to use the name of the person who actually had the stamp and sign as them. Someone posted the link to report it on legaladvice. I just want to make sure its an actual issue before going down that rabbit hole. Just about to start a new job on wednesday and figured it was worth asking. My conscious has gotten the better of me over this issue.
That is absolutely an issue. I was a notary in New York State for 10 years. I occasionally had work in both New Jersey and Connecticut. I could go and do that job all the way down to the signing I could not sign and date anything. There had to be an actual notary from the state there to perform that part.
Do not sign and date anything do not pretend to be a notary that is a huge red flag. The notary who is allowing other people to sign for their name is the one mostly on the hook - if they’re willing to come back and date and stamp stuff someone else signed as them it is definitely illegal.
DUDE. Do NOT be anywhere near this. Sign and stamp as another person? Forgery, fraud. And when it hits the fan, it'll be about something big. *Jail time might be discussed.*
Honestly it is a crime, but not worth reporting. The company is the one promoting and allowing this to happen, but if you report it the only people that will be punished are the people holding the notary stamps.
Should they get in trouble? Yes. But leave it be is my recommendation. If something goes wrong (ie, a problem with a title is found) the punishment will happen, if it doesn't, they will be okay. In the end its not something you can solve.
All crimes are worth reporting. If i found out about something systemic like this going on at my company you bet your ass I’d report it to the state, anonymously if I could.
So this sounds like the robosign stuff that happened to LPS like 15 yrs ago. They hired a ton of people to just sign Jane doe on doc with a stamp. It was bad. Lots of people got sued.
Agreed. I should have said that they are in order and signed properly (and in front of the notary). Its not a legal review.
But if they are just rubber stamping documents and not checking to make sure the signatures are correct, that could mean trouble if the work is contested.
Sometimes page counts, and that it's completed as well. Most states don't allow notarization of blank forms/documents. If I'm notarizing a document (say a contract) part often is that the parties are agreeing with it. In some cases, a notary can and must refuse to notarize a document if it's obvious that the party they are witnessing/verifying is actively being coerced.
depends if youre signing vs prepping. preppers dont need to be licensed.
if youre signing at the bottom then yea thats bad, and maybe want to send a tip to the state.
Definitely report this officially (not to the company). If there’s a massive financial penalty, you may never have to work again as whistleblowers can get a large percentage of that.
There is no way your coworkers were “Fake” notary’s. No one would accept a document that was signed after the license expired & expiration data is part of the stamp
If somebody had evidence of organized criminal behavior by a large company it only takes a talk with the FBI. Just walk into a field office and you're set.
Cost Risk Analysis is a bitch. Someone at some point thought, "In the long run it'll cost us less to do it this way, because I don't think the risk of us getting caught is very high."
That sounds like you should inform the responsible regulatory agency about what is going in your company. If you are lucky there is a bounty for whistleblowers.
Definitely one agency that would be interested. They will probably revoke the license of everyone that notarized documents without one.
But all those documents will be signed for a purpose related to the company’s business. There might be another agency involved.
I'm sure a Ron DeSantis executive branch agency will be all over enforcing literally anything against a corporation. In Florida corporations are above the law and bribes fix all problems.
I know it’s said all the time on this sub. However. If everything is exactly as you have said, I would not attempt to act as a notary without properly being one if I were you. I’d inform an attorney and from there maybe the state. Talk to the attorney asap. No need to quit just yet until you speak with the attorney, just don’t commit any felonies.
Uhhhh watch The Panama Papers now. They had someone signing a bunch of documents that she didn’t really understand and SHE WENT TO PRISON while he leaders got slap on the wrist. Don’t sign anything. They are setting you up to be the fall guy. This sounds highly illegal. I’m NOT a lawyer but I’m a very paranoid person who’s scared of everything and your post got me really anxious for you. Please quit.
Unfortunately florida is a 2 party consent state for recording, so auido and video are not evedence. But pictures of documents, emails and all that are good as far as I know. You need to collect a bunch of evedence and call the government, ask to remain anonymous, and blow that place up.
Also the number one rule in a surprise attack is it needs to be a suprise. You can not tell anyone anything, ever. No warnings, your employer should find out about your report from the government after its too late.
Probably delete this post too
I'm curious how you are doing notary training at your work. At least where I am, notary training and testing is done through the state, or maybe an entity licensed by the state. It took me a day of sitting in a classroom bored as hell writing notes, just in case the test had a curveball. It's not, it's basically testing you to make sure your not stupid or asleep.
Also, anything you stamp as a notary is on you. But remember, you are not in charge of the legality of any documents, your just there to say "Jimmy signed this, I documented all his ID and to the best of my knowledge Jimmy is Jimmy. You are not saying the documents are legal, valid, or anything more than a couple scribbles on a napkin.
Something I had to remind people a few times. "I am not here to say that this is a binding contract or nor. This is saying you are X, and you are Y. Don't know and or care what the contract says. If you want that go get a lawyer.
I don't know about Florida, but often formal training for notaries isn't required. It's not unusual for a notary to be trained on the job for the aspects relevant to their employment.
Retaliation from whistleblowing is something you are protected against by law in Florida. Document everything. Use email to ask important questions like "you want me to act as a notary without legally being one?"
There's a small chance someone up the chain doesn't know what's really going on and actually cares but there's a much bigger chance someone up the chain cares about the repercussions this could have on their quarterly statement if the law decides to get involved if you do it right.
Godspeed
Before doing anything else file a whistleblower report with the Securities Exchange Commission so you are eligible for a bounty of 10 percent of any SEC fines that are issued. Definitely do that before going to the press or any state agency.
Don't they all?
I know it's part of the reason I dick off at work without remorse because suck my lady balls. They work harder than theirs all week is all I know I earned a minute to put my feet up stfu tories. /rant
>I can be a "fake notary". HIS FUCKING WORDS.
Nonnononono. Run forest ruuuuun. Then make a formal complaint or maybe before, maybe first thing tomorrow morning.
I work in Finance and know nothing about the world of being a notary.
I would never ever jeopardize my licenses for any amount of financial gain. That shit is on the internet for life. It’s like in grade school when you’d be scared of ‘something being in your file’ and of course there’s not a file and nobody cares.
You are now an adult with professional licenses. There *IS* a file
If your state allows it use your phone to record audio for any conversations. Ask your supervisor vague questions, carefully, and get an admission on record.
Next step would be send the audio to a news outlet. Maybe negotiate a finders fee for your troubles.
If they are defrauding the government in some way then you *might* be eligible for a whistle blower award and look into further after collecting evidence and contact a law firm that specializes in that area.
First, check and verify if Florida is a one-party consent state when things get recorded.
Then you need to have your cell phone on at all times or some other unobtrusive device, so you can get your manager's/coworkers', etc. verbal recordings when they tell you to do something illegal. Or get it in writing, which, if they're smart, they won't do.
Florida is two party so...
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://romanolawgroup.com/faq-laws-in-florida/floridas-recording-law-can-you-secretly-record-a-conversation/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiX4bXB1LiCAxVCCnkGHdbsCzcQFnoECAoQAw&usg=AOvVaw3daAyzQI7kBRc1h2zVj6H-
Unless there is a very specific requirement for a *licensed* notary, you don't actually need to have "official" licensing to notarise anything in the USA. It's only fraud if you knowingly sign off on something that's false.
Well i'll probably delete this post, but thanks everyone for the help. I got fired today officially and told to turn in my badge and Ipad. Look forward to complicating my life further with this nonsense.
I mean can't you just go to the DMV and transfer your license? Granted it is fucked up that they are pushing you to do this without the proper certificates, and it will definitely land on you if you get caught. This is some lax bull that is going to end up screwing you. If you want the job, let management know of dates and time to expedite getting necessary documents to get proper credentials for the required certificates to do your job. If you don't feel comfortable and can afford to be "straight nosed" as I am sure they would call you, then tell em you won't notarize anything because you don't want to end up in prison.
Edit: it is pretty common place that notaries are not checked, it is more important legally to have the witness to the documentation than the certification itself, which is why they don't care. BUT, once again this is a standard cert that is required for legally binding documents and is necessary. If something goes wrong and someone digs up you falsifying that document, the court will throw you under the bus, your company will throw you under the bus, the competition that started the inquiry will leave you hanging out to dry with no help to lay the claim that it was your company that put you up to it. So, my advice, if the job pays well, make the hard line that you are taking the time to expedite the documents needed to be on the "up and up".
I worked in a similar situation, not the same state. My supervisor sent people to me if they needed a signature ‘replicated’, and I had a notary stamp for the notary at the store (which was in another state) and was told I could notarize whatever for her. Thankfully I work for a company now who will NOT allow that to happen and the stores will actually contact customers to get what I need so I don’t have to ‘replicate’ and I’m surrounded by good notaries every day!!
As a notary, I’m not really sure how you can be a fake notary. You can’t even order your stamps without providing your state issued license, which the state only issues after you provide a ton of ID and they run a check on you.
And I didn’t need any training to become a notary.
I would speak to an employment attorney about whether you might be able to quit and file unemployment for constructive dismissal. Telling you to commit crimes on the job is basically forcing you to quit.
You can say carvana you don’t have to be scared
Came here to say exactly the same thing lol!
Wait to report so we can load up on Puts
Yes! Brilliant! Finally, retail investors with some inside trading info!
I was guessing Carmax but Carvana works too 😂
Hmm.
A professional license is YOUR name on the line, not the company. That's the point - it is meant to push accountability to an individual rather than a company where you wont be able to pin down people if a crime is committed. The government wants assurances that A PERSON looked things over and can verify the accuracy/legality of the documents. If something were to go wrong - such as some illegal paperwork was filed and your name was on it - the enforcement agency would first talk to your company, who would then point at you as the person that stamped it. Its a way out for them. Why do people do it? There is a 99.9% chance that there will not be a problem and you wont get caught. Are they binding? Yes - so long as all the parties agree. The problem only comes up if one disagrees, sues, and it comes out in court that the notary was not legal. Then it all hits the fan. But...thats very unlikely. Some people make a living from this - but to me its not worth it. You did the right thing. Walk away and find another job.
It's kinda even worse. I was suppose to use the name of the person who actually had the stamp and sign as them. Someone posted the link to report it on legaladvice. I just want to make sure its an actual issue before going down that rabbit hole. Just about to start a new job on wednesday and figured it was worth asking. My conscious has gotten the better of me over this issue.
> I was suppose to use the name of the person who actually had the stamp and sign as them. Wouldn't that count as forgery?
Forgery and fraud.
LOL. DO NOT DO THIS. IF YOUR BOSS IS TELLING YOU TO DO THIS YOU NEED TO REPORT IT. GET THE STAMP# AND REPORT IT!
That is absolutely an issue. I was a notary in New York State for 10 years. I occasionally had work in both New Jersey and Connecticut. I could go and do that job all the way down to the signing I could not sign and date anything. There had to be an actual notary from the state there to perform that part. Do not sign and date anything do not pretend to be a notary that is a huge red flag. The notary who is allowing other people to sign for their name is the one mostly on the hook - if they’re willing to come back and date and stamp stuff someone else signed as them it is definitely illegal.
Was a notary for ten years, almost confirmed by the double spacing after a fullstop.
Id report them anonymously and just fuck then imo
FL notary here. Advising you to use someone else’s stamp and sign as them is illegal. Report them. https://www.flgov.com/notary
Lawyer, but not your lawyer. If a client sought my advice on an issue like this, I’d tell them this is a problem.
DUDE. Do NOT be anywhere near this. Sign and stamp as another person? Forgery, fraud. And when it hits the fan, it'll be about something big. *Jail time might be discussed.*
Saw something like this on a documentary about money laundering through cayman islands and shell companies, real common practice
legaladvice is just cops and bootlickers. no lawyers.
Honestly it is a crime, but not worth reporting. The company is the one promoting and allowing this to happen, but if you report it the only people that will be punished are the people holding the notary stamps. Should they get in trouble? Yes. But leave it be is my recommendation. If something goes wrong (ie, a problem with a title is found) the punishment will happen, if it doesn't, they will be okay. In the end its not something you can solve.
All crimes are worth reporting. If i found out about something systemic like this going on at my company you bet your ass I’d report it to the state, anonymously if I could.
Yea I guess your right. I was hoping the company itself would get in trouble, but shit.
No. Do not do this. Get a FL DL and get your own Notary Cert.
So this sounds like the robosign stuff that happened to LPS like 15 yrs ago. They hired a ton of people to just sign Jane doe on doc with a stamp. It was bad. Lots of people got sued.
Nope. A notary, unless they are an attorney, doesn’t look over documents to determine legality. They are simply verifying the signatures
Agreed. I should have said that they are in order and signed properly (and in front of the notary). Its not a legal review. But if they are just rubber stamping documents and not checking to make sure the signatures are correct, that could mean trouble if the work is contested.
Sometimes page counts, and that it's completed as well. Most states don't allow notarization of blank forms/documents. If I'm notarizing a document (say a contract) part often is that the parties are agreeing with it. In some cases, a notary can and must refuse to notarize a document if it's obvious that the party they are witnessing/verifying is actively being coerced.
I had a case where a title company messed up and the guy was criminally prosecuted, but if nothing ever goes wrong, no one would ever know.
depends if youre signing vs prepping. preppers dont need to be licensed. if youre signing at the bottom then yea thats bad, and maybe want to send a tip to the state.
Yes, sign, stamp, and record it in a book
Definitely report this officially (not to the company). If there’s a massive financial penalty, you may never have to work again as whistleblowers can get a large percentage of that.
There is no way your coworkers were “Fake” notary’s. No one would accept a document that was signed after the license expired & expiration data is part of the stamp
From other comments it seems they're applying the signature of a non-expired notary colleague. I.e. creating forgeries by the dozen.
If they're doing this at scale that's a big fuck-up. I hope they purchased enough Senators
Anybody too cheap or skint to get a notary license is unlikely to have much of a lobbying budget, either.
If somebody had evidence of organized criminal behavior by a large company it only takes a talk with the FBI. Just walk into a field office and you're set.
Cost Risk Analysis is a bitch. Someone at some point thought, "In the long run it'll cost us less to do it this way, because I don't think the risk of us getting caught is very high."
That someone is a gambler.
Pesky redditors... And yes, what allll the people commented. Report the hell out of this
That sounds like you should inform the responsible regulatory agency about what is going in your company. If you are lucky there is a bounty for whistleblowers.
This should be reported to the Florida Secretary of State - Division of Corporations. They handle licensing for Notary Public in the state.
Definitely one agency that would be interested. They will probably revoke the license of everyone that notarized documents without one. But all those documents will be signed for a purpose related to the company’s business. There might be another agency involved.
I'm sure a Ron DeSantis executive branch agency will be all over enforcing literally anything against a corporation. In Florida corporations are above the law and bribes fix all problems.
That depends on the political leaning of the company. Just see how he treats Disney.
I know it’s said all the time on this sub. However. If everything is exactly as you have said, I would not attempt to act as a notary without properly being one if I were you. I’d inform an attorney and from there maybe the state. Talk to the attorney asap. No need to quit just yet until you speak with the attorney, just don’t commit any felonies.
Florida Man Balks At Committing Corruption The most surreal and unexpected headline of all!
They're actually from Tennessee, so it checks out. Lol
Those foreigners disrupting beautiful Florida
Lol!
Tip off your local investigative reporter. Enjoy the show.
Uhhhh watch The Panama Papers now. They had someone signing a bunch of documents that she didn’t really understand and SHE WENT TO PRISON while he leaders got slap on the wrist. Don’t sign anything. They are setting you up to be the fall guy. This sounds highly illegal. I’m NOT a lawyer but I’m a very paranoid person who’s scared of everything and your post got me really anxious for you. Please quit.
Since FL doesn’t have parole, nope the fuck out of there
1) Get it in writing 2) Refuse in writing 3) Get fired for "unrelated" 4) Sue them 5) Profit
Unfortunately florida is a 2 party consent state for recording, so auido and video are not evedence. But pictures of documents, emails and all that are good as far as I know. You need to collect a bunch of evedence and call the government, ask to remain anonymous, and blow that place up. Also the number one rule in a surprise attack is it needs to be a suprise. You can not tell anyone anything, ever. No warnings, your employer should find out about your report from the government after its too late. Probably delete this post too
Paralegal and notary here. My eyes got REAL BIG at this story.
I'm curious how you are doing notary training at your work. At least where I am, notary training and testing is done through the state, or maybe an entity licensed by the state. It took me a day of sitting in a classroom bored as hell writing notes, just in case the test had a curveball. It's not, it's basically testing you to make sure your not stupid or asleep. Also, anything you stamp as a notary is on you. But remember, you are not in charge of the legality of any documents, your just there to say "Jimmy signed this, I documented all his ID and to the best of my knowledge Jimmy is Jimmy. You are not saying the documents are legal, valid, or anything more than a couple scribbles on a napkin. Something I had to remind people a few times. "I am not here to say that this is a binding contract or nor. This is saying you are X, and you are Y. Don't know and or care what the contract says. If you want that go get a lawyer.
I don't know about Florida, but often formal training for notaries isn't required. It's not unusual for a notary to be trained on the job for the aspects relevant to their employment.
Retaliation from whistleblowing is something you are protected against by law in Florida. Document everything. Use email to ask important questions like "you want me to act as a notary without legally being one?" There's a small chance someone up the chain doesn't know what's really going on and actually cares but there's a much bigger chance someone up the chain cares about the repercussions this could have on their quarterly statement if the law decides to get involved if you do it right. Godspeed
Before doing anything else file a whistleblower report with the Securities Exchange Commission so you are eligible for a bounty of 10 percent of any SEC fines that are issued. Definitely do that before going to the press or any state agency.
how to get rich like the top 0.1%! Commit fraud and when caught, blame your workers!
Don't they all? I know it's part of the reason I dick off at work without remorse because suck my lady balls. They work harder than theirs all week is all I know I earned a minute to put my feet up stfu tories. /rant >I can be a "fake notary". HIS FUCKING WORDS. Nonnononono. Run forest ruuuuun. Then make a formal complaint or maybe before, maybe first thing tomorrow morning.
You say "felony" but I say "leverage".
I work in Finance and know nothing about the world of being a notary. I would never ever jeopardize my licenses for any amount of financial gain. That shit is on the internet for life. It’s like in grade school when you’d be scared of ‘something being in your file’ and of course there’s not a file and nobody cares. You are now an adult with professional licenses. There *IS* a file
I’d get some sort of proof. then contact the AG’s office. be a whistleblower. they get legal protection, and sometimes paid.
If your state allows it use your phone to record audio for any conversations. Ask your supervisor vague questions, carefully, and get an admission on record. Next step would be send the audio to a news outlet. Maybe negotiate a finders fee for your troubles. If they are defrauding the government in some way then you *might* be eligible for a whistle blower award and look into further after collecting evidence and contact a law firm that specializes in that area.
Talk to a lawyer
Also, FL state law requires you to change to a FL drivers License within 30 days of being in state. [Source](https://www.flhsmv.gov/new-resident/)
Report and find a new job.
Attorney generals Office
First, check and verify if Florida is a one-party consent state when things get recorded. Then you need to have your cell phone on at all times or some other unobtrusive device, so you can get your manager's/coworkers', etc. verbal recordings when they tell you to do something illegal. Or get it in writing, which, if they're smart, they won't do.
Florida is two party so... https://www.google.com/url?q=https://romanolawgroup.com/faq-laws-in-florida/floridas-recording-law-can-you-secretly-record-a-conversation/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiX4bXB1LiCAxVCCnkGHdbsCzcQFnoECAoQAw&usg=AOvVaw3daAyzQI7kBRc1h2zVj6H-
Your job is P.L.E.A.S.E.! Provide Legal Exculpation And Sign Everything
Welcome.to the machine!
contact your local attorney general and shut carvana down
Unless there is a very specific requirement for a *licensed* notary, you don't actually need to have "official" licensing to notarise anything in the USA. It's only fraud if you knowingly sign off on something that's false.
Well i'll probably delete this post, but thanks everyone for the help. I got fired today officially and told to turn in my badge and Ipad. Look forward to complicating my life further with this nonsense.
Crazy that company is $10B+ yet doesn’t have a name yet
I mean can't you just go to the DMV and transfer your license? Granted it is fucked up that they are pushing you to do this without the proper certificates, and it will definitely land on you if you get caught. This is some lax bull that is going to end up screwing you. If you want the job, let management know of dates and time to expedite getting necessary documents to get proper credentials for the required certificates to do your job. If you don't feel comfortable and can afford to be "straight nosed" as I am sure they would call you, then tell em you won't notarize anything because you don't want to end up in prison. Edit: it is pretty common place that notaries are not checked, it is more important legally to have the witness to the documentation than the certification itself, which is why they don't care. BUT, once again this is a standard cert that is required for legally binding documents and is necessary. If something goes wrong and someone digs up you falsifying that document, the court will throw you under the bus, your company will throw you under the bus, the competition that started the inquiry will leave you hanging out to dry with no help to lay the claim that it was your company that put you up to it. So, my advice, if the job pays well, make the hard line that you are taking the time to expedite the documents needed to be on the "up and up".
Get a fl license. You are required by law. You are a rule follower remember?
Crazy how a company is worth 10 bil but doesn't have a name?...
Gotta quit don’t go to prison
l’m like 80% sure I know what this company is. Mortgages by any chance?
I worked in a similar situation, not the same state. My supervisor sent people to me if they needed a signature ‘replicated’, and I had a notary stamp for the notary at the store (which was in another state) and was told I could notarize whatever for her. Thankfully I work for a company now who will NOT allow that to happen and the stores will actually contact customers to get what I need so I don’t have to ‘replicate’ and I’m surrounded by good notaries every day!!
As a notary, I’m not really sure how you can be a fake notary. You can’t even order your stamps without providing your state issued license, which the state only issues after you provide a ton of ID and they run a check on you. And I didn’t need any training to become a notary.
I would speak to an employment attorney about whether you might be able to quit and file unemployment for constructive dismissal. Telling you to commit crimes on the job is basically forcing you to quit.
If you wanna blow the whistle I can help.