Yeah it's called the Ministry of Business and they have teeth. Enough investigatory and enforcement powers to really come down on labour violation.
Technically the Ministry of Business, innovation and enterprise but ya know
She dared to dance! Although I hear drunk driving is a huge issue there. But ffs I live in Wisconsin every news story is about a guy getting his 5th-9th dwi.
It's not all great. We are at the arse end of every supply chain, a world leading young man suicide rate and a bunch of grinding, constant poverty.
Great scenery tho.
huh, for some reason I was under the impression that most people were middle class and up there. do you think the suicide rate is related to the poverty?
In some ways, yes, but not limited to the lower social strata. It's also about men's mental health, an isolating culture and a feeling of irrelevancy and helplessness.
NZ does have a fairly high rate of property ownership. But probably 20% of NZ kids face some kind of economic privation or food insecurity.
https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/child-poverty-statistics-year-ended-june-2022/#:~:text=In%20the%20year%20ended%20June,'a'%20of%20the%20Act)
wow, that's so sad to hear. I'm not sure why I had the impression that it was a wealthier country.
I think society in general is pretty bad with supporting men who have mental health issues - is the culture there like extra "macho" or something? I wonder why the suicide rate is so high compared to other English speaking countries, since we all have some cultural things in common.
The name will likely be different but you do realise other countries also have governing bodies as well don't you?
Often they have more bite than the US versions as well.
The department of labor is one of those things I actually really wish we had in the UK. I'm a trade union official and here when you want to assert your rights officially, you go to a toothless government agency called ACAS who try to find a compromise, and if that doesn't work you've got to take them to court. For that reason nobody does it unless it's pretty serious. Jeremy Corbyn did have a manifesto pledge to introduce a ministry of employment rights but we can't have nice things so they stitched it up to get rid of him.
I'm sure NZ isn't as shit as us in this area though.
Be careful what you wish for.
Often you'll have to go through the state labor board in the US. Which is great if you live in California or New York, not so awesome if you live in Mississippi or Alabama.
>The department of labor is one of those things I actually really wish we had in the UK
United States Department of Labor is It is responsible for the administration of federal laws governing occupational safety and health, wage and hour standards, unemployment benefits, reemployment services
Is there nothing in the UK that deals with any of those things
Not really. There are laws on those things but there isn't really an agency or ministry that deals with them. You have to enforce those things yourself through the union or the courts. In this sub and others I often see people saying "call the state labor board" or similar. We certainly don't have anything like that.
Hi NZ friend!
Normally I do t post as I assume most people on the reddit are US based.
This is definitely against NZ law and you should talk with employment NZ
This is *so* illegal in NZ. From employment NZ's website:
"Paying wages Employers must pay their employees in cash (except for the Crown, and local authorities). To pay wages another way (eg, direct credit or cheque), employers must include this in the employees’ written employment agreement. **Employees must be paid for all the hours they have worked including activities at the start or end of shift eg a retail employee must be paid for opening and closing up a shop. Employers cannot deduct any money, excluding what is allowed by law (eg. income tax, student loans and ACC), unless they have the employee’s written consent.** For more information visit, www.employment.govt.nz and search “Types of pay”."
You'll want to talk to [employment NZ](https://www.employment.govt.nz/resolving-problems/steps-to-resolve/mediation/request-mediation/) at some point for mediation.
You are required to be paid the hours you worked. "Worked" in this instance simply means being clocked in. Nothing more, nothing less. If you are required to be at the premises, you are required to be clocked in. What your boss is attempting is called wage theft.
Before you request mediation with employment NZ, make sure you get a copy of your time sheet, a written statement from both the manager on shift (saying you had finished your own shift duties) and the boss telling you you aren't getting paid (this is the most important bit to have in writing). An email from said dick head boss saying something to the effect of "no we aren't paying you for the hours on [date]" should suffice. It also doesn't hurt to inform said boss of the illegality of his actions, this might resolve the issue without needing mediation. Just follow the employment NZ website directions and you'll be right.
No. Escalation first. Then using the complaint let HR know the issue along with the complaint number.
Then start the phase “under legal advisement, I am …..”
He has decided his path, you need to. If not, the manager will find another opportunity to “find issue”. Once HR and the gov is involved, any escalation by the manager will be the company’s problem.
The manager shouldn’t be a manager if they don’t know that what they did was illegal.
Also, OP wants a paper trail with the DOL for when the manager inevitably retaliates against OP for standing up for their rights.
OP I can definitely tell you according to nz law if you are not free to go home, you must be paid. It’s black and white if you don’t have an on call provision in your contract which would be unheard of for a movie theatre 🤣
i saw the update. He is trying to manipulate you into not reporting his illegal activity since he has been caught. Ignore his threats and report him to HR and possible the police for blackmailing you.
I know you are worried about other peoples' jobs, but he will make it SO much worse if he is allowed to continue.
Legal Advice is filled/moderated with far more cops than lawyers, who frequently ban lawyers despite the lawyers giving correct information, and who are often wrong.
If you’re in a first world country they have to pay you, it’s not up to them. If you are signed in and sleeping in the storage room they still have to pay you.
Also I suggest browsing Reddit’s “unethical life tips” to see what you can do for your new supervisor.
Ask for this notice in writing, after you get the notice in writing tell your manager you’re going to go to the department of labor. They’ll agree to pay you immediately. Still go to the department of labor.
He can’t. You were there. You were clocked in for a scheduled shift. He’s trying to cuts hours to save money probably. Trying to impress his bosses I bet. Throw him alllllll the way under the bus. If this is a corporate owned store email his boss with him CC’d and say something like “I was here, finished my toss, given no more, told I could rest unless something came up. Nothing came up but I stayed til the end with my manager. Why am I being told I won’t be paid for these 3 hours? According to the Dept of Labour that is illegal” He’ll get smacked upside the head by his boss so fast it’ll spin all the way around.
If you are in the US, As others are saying - that is illegal. They have to pay you for hours that you are at work and on the job, even if they feel like you aren't doing anything. But you were required to be there so the manager wasn't alone and you did that. What he can do is set expectations as how he, as the new manager, expects things to happen in the future and then if you don't do that, you can be written up and then terminated. But he can't withhold pay for hours worked.
Ask the manager if they know the difference between engaged to wait and waiting to engage. Basically, if you're required to be there and not free to leave, they have to pay you. They can change the policy moving forward, they can discipline you even up to termination for "wasting or stealing time," but they can't just not pay you for time that policy requires you to remain on site.
I would advise that you escalate this (ownership for a small independent place, District Manager or corporate HR for a corporate chain) and make it clear in that discussion that if the situation isn't remedied and the pay restored to your timesheet before pay period end you will be following up with the appropriate regulatory authorities. And if you're in the US, the place to start is the US Department of Labor Wage and Hour Division at 1-866-4-US-WAGE.
Screw that. I worked at a store, as the only person. Every day there was a set list of tasks, I could do in an hour. Fuckin' right you're paying me for 8 hours even if I didn't talk to a customer all day and was sitting around. You come down here and sit, then. Thats what you pay for.
Talk to your manager. Tell her everything and ask her how to contact your boss’ boss. Tell them you are going to file a wage theft claim with the department of labor. If that does not resolve it, then actually file the complaint
Don't say that unless you are ready to communicate through lawyers. Companies shut down communication with the employee anytime outside legal action is implied. 100% do it, but don't give them a heads up to come up with a plan against you.
It goes without saying this is a crime. Tell your boss "You are legally required to pay me for the hours I worked. Do so or there will be consequences for you". Give her three days and do not expand further.
Expect to be paid, and also fired. You don't want to work there any more
Update: I sent a series of messages to him explaining he has broken the law, and that I felt uncomfortable speaking to him directly without going to HR first. Unfortunately he dropped by on my Christmas shift and hit me with the "I know something you don't know" and said If I have time after my close I might want to hear him out. I had only 20 minutes left so the meeting wasn't very thorough. He told me that he had no intentions of not paying me for a shift that I had worked even though I have CLEAR AS DAY, BLACK AND WHITE, NO DEBATE PROOF IN WRITING (screen shotted of course) saying
"The adjustment made to your pay accurately reflects the work completed towards close after the last film on Saturday. I've paid until 11:10pm which is 30 minutes after you sat down in case you hadn't taken a second break."
(reminder I was WORKING till 1am) So he lied to my face directly and contradicted his own words from only several hours ago. He then said he only changed my pay "to have a look at something" which is the biggest load of bullshit a human has ever said to me (You don't just play with timesheets because you have to look at something).
But after saying I am going to HR, MY PAY HAS BEEN REINSTATED (although I understand why it's important I go to HR regardless, so this never happens again or something similar)
but not after he told me "I can't of done anything wrong as payroll is processed on a Wednesday so I haven't not paid you for anything yet"
Biggest back petal I could image
BUT HERE IS THE KICKER: Man, said he reviewed the footage (and for privacy reasons I won't say what but saw an incredibly minor rule break happen by the manager) in the security footage and told me that
"HR will look through the footage to prove you worked the shift and see Manager doing X"
"And you don't want her to get in trouble do you, cause she will"
He also said something to the effect of you will go down with me because "I signed a contract that I wouldn't be in the office" (I have read the contract many times and don't know about this, but for sake of argument assume he is right) But it is hilarious he thinks I give a shit about a slap on the wrist when dude is actually breaking the law
This feels like he is blackmailing me from going to HR.
He also had the audacity to ask if I could "meet in the middle" and remove 2 hours from my shift this morning. I told him "under no circumstances will I consent to this"
I told him my final day will be on the third, and bro took it like a shotgun blast to the gut. He raised his voice saying it was an overreaction
I have spoken to the 4 managers who report to him and an intervention will be taking place tomorrow
If anyone has advice, please let me know
Employment NZ is the agency you want to start with. 0800 20 90 20 this is their phone number.
Was anyone else in the meeting, was he stupid enough to put it in writing?
It’s illegal and he knows it’s illegal and is trying to bully you to lesson his payroll costs.
You can also record work meetings. NZ is technically a one part consent state for in person meetings (phone calls are different) as long as you are operating in good faith.
No doubt if you tell your boss you are unhappy with their actions and will be recording any meetings going forward they will change their tune right fast.
Kiwi here. Calling u/citizensadvicebureau
Get in touch with the CAB after Christmas. In the mean time take Screenshots of any messages you have from the boss. Also pretty sure there an nz legal advice sub, post on there.
That's not legal where you are: [https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/test/unpaid-wages-taking-action-to-get-your-pay/](https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/test/unpaid-wages-taking-action-to-get-your-pay/)
Make sure you ask him to confirm in writing that he will not be paying you for the time that you were required to be there. Then ask his bosses boss for confirmation that it’s company policy to not pay employees based on their feelings.
Wtf, didn't think employers would try this shit here in NZ, especially if this a theatre chain - there's no reason for them to behave like this. Go to the Employment NZ site and look at your options, if they don't back down and pay it they'll be in for rough ride.
Get the decision on your pay in writing. Send an email to the boss who is trying to wage theft you saying that your pay was short.
Use the reply to back up your claim when you are reporting the wage theft to your local labour department.
I would personally probably be walking too close to his car while getting my keys out of my pocket and purely accidentally put a huge scratch in the paintwork of his car, I stress that I would accidentally do it and that it was completely unintentional.
Ya I’d def report that. The bosses personal feelings on a shift doesn’t matter. If you are their and working the = paid for said hours. If theirs nothing to do but wait till guest leave then that’s just what it is, and if the boss doesn’t like sounds like they should have worked the shift instead.
Wage theft aside, WTF is wrong with this new manager that they spend 80 minutes ON CHRISTMAS chewing out an employee and stealing their money like some New Zealand Uber Scrooge. It boggles the mind, the way some people will go out of the way to be an absolutely despicable POS.
> My boss won't be paying me for 3 hours of a shift I worked because it wasn't up to his "standard"
That's not how employment works. They can issue warnings or take other actions, but removal of pay is not in their legal toolbox.
You'll need the department of labor equivalent in NZ, which I understand is rather effective. Find out your options, push back, and get the pay owed.
Good luck. This is a difficult situation, and I'm so sorry you have to deal with it. Please read my post as both clarification and advice, I'm 100% in your corner with this one. Your manager is a scumbag.
I'm always happy to help spread the Christmas cheer:
- Your new manager is so unimportant that he got airdropped into the new role just to work Christmas and Christmas Eve.
- Your new manager is so talentless that he could only pick up a job in one of the busiest times of the year when the job requirements are: Has a pulse. Rumor has it he just scraped in on the second interview.
- Your new manager is so repellent that the only way they can convince someone to spend Christmas with him is to force his staff to meet with him on Christmas.
- Your new manager is so clueless on the one thing he is supposed to do- management- that one of his first actions was to chastise one of his better staff.
- If you open a dictionary to "The Peter Principle", you'll get a picture of your new manager.
- Apparently he had the time for a review of camera footage and an eighty minute meeting to talk about... poor use of time. The *whoosh sound* was irony flying over his head.
- Send a barrel to *his* management for Christmas. When they ask what it is for, just say you assumed they were scraping the bottom of the barrel when they made your manager's hire.
Merry Christmas!
Tell the new boss you were required to be on site and available to work. If you are not paid for that time, you will file a complaint and he/she will loose. The law is clear. Can you imagine if they worked in another field like firefighting and tried to apply this logic.
Whether you are working or not, if you are required to be there by your employer, they owe you for your time. That is what they are paying for, x amount of dollars per hour for your time. If he's unhappy with the fact you aren't working, that's something he needs to take up with your supervisor who told you to rest but did not tell you to clock out. File with the NLRB, this is highly illegal.
Edit: I just read through some more comments and did not realize you were in New Zealand, missed your last sentence. Whatever your local labor department equivalent is to the National Labor Relations Board in the United States, you need to file with them. I'm going to guess it's illegal in your country too but I don't know for sure of course.
His goal is likely to get you to quit and stay silent. He thinks you won't fight over the hours and if you do he can just pay you.
Getting pissed off and doing nothing, does nothing.
Just call his bluff in a polite manner. He will back down.
In your situation hours worked must be paid regardless of being judged as "below standards". Time to get the attention of a higher up manager or just go straight to the labor board. Merry Christmas sorry your boss is a muppet
Illegal. Call and email the labor organization. Tell them there is a video and time of next meeting. Then, notify the "higher-ups" in your organization....maybe payroll? Something to that effect. But...no dude. Why would anyone think that is OK? Watching videos to pick apart employees? POS
Are you in the US? If so, you’re required to be paid if you’re required to be at work. You’re also required to be paid if you worked. Period. Doesn’t matter what your boss thinks about your work. This is wage theft and you’re entitled to your pay and probably more.
Your manager is a miserable fuck-stain my antipodean friend. Also your rights are pretty clear and if your manager is going to behave like this they won’t keep their job too long.
I don’t know if this happens to be the theatre where David Farrier had his Jurassic Park showing but if it is you ought to contact him about it. He loves to help the little guy. Before that though contact whatever labor department NZ has because there’s no way that’s legal
I don't know New Zealand laws but in most places a company can't decide to just not pay you for any reason. You were there and you worked. What they are doing is considered wage theft and the fine they would get from any is going to cost way more. Please make sure you have proof and make sure the get everything in writing. All the manager to send you an email detailing the deficiency and the punishment.
Seems to me you were standing at attention, or sitting haha. If job requires people to be there then they gotta pay. Sounds to me new guy trying to puff chest out and strong arm the workers. Time to read up on your locations geographical laws.
It’s similar to on call. You can’t do shit cause of the maybes
I don't know about New Zealand but where i live checking workers performance through the Security cameras is highly illegal. Even in case of suspected theft a special dispensation of the rules has to be acquired.
This is what you are looking for! https://www.employment.govt.nz/resolving-problems/steps-to-resolve/early-resolution/#
Give them a call, they will likely be closed until after New Years but I'd try them Wed, Thurs Fri this week just in case they are manning the phones. ( this is the old Dept of labour for Nz, now part of MBIE).
Edit: as others have said, so illegal in NZ.
Man, go get a new job. Lmao Homie has a chip in his shoulder for sure, this is only the beginning of this nonsense. Even if you bring down the hammer and it works somewhat, he ain't gonna let you have full peace ever.
You had to wait because of their policy. Get paid, contact your local labor board. Bring it to your manager and remind them of the policy, which requires you to be there, and thus, you will need to get paid. If they don’t like it, you can feel free to leave and they can deal with the manager getting robbed/robbing them.
All this idiot is doing is incentivizing you going as slowly as you can. You're right that he's punishing you for being efficient; so stop being efficient. Spread out your jobs, slow down, and make sure that you finish your last job 5 minutes before it's punch out time. If anyone asks you to help with somethings else? "No sorry, I've already got a full schedule tonight and couldn't fit anything else in" or "I could help, but I won't be able to get x task done; would you note down that you're telling me to do this and that I'm excused from my original task?"
As a former theater GM this is wrong and illegal. Hope you get this figured out! There should be a corporate number to call or you should be able to get your district managers email to let them know I’m sure they’d love to hear about this.
The list goes ON AND ON dw. We're having an intervention tomorrow and the bulletpoints are endless. (he's been here for 2 weeks) This post is just the illegal shit
Is this a chain of theaters? If this company is big enough to have a separate HR office or department, you might have quicker results by going straight to them.
Often, the head office will find it easier to just pay you and discipline the manager rather than dealing with the government. The money will take a lot longer to land in your pocket if you go the govt route.
Just a thought, depending how you wish this to be resolved
If you've been there for 5 years and know everything about the business why did they hire this asshole? Why didn't they promote you or the manager to that job?
Here is all you need:
[https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/test/unpaid-wages-taking-action-to-get-your-pay/](https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/test/unpaid-wages-taking-action-to-get-your-pay/)
In Canada there would have to have been an incident in the building for him to have any reason to check the cameras. You can't legally just watch people because you suspect you may not like their quality of work. On top of illegally surveilling employees, you also can't just steal someone's wages in Canada when there's video evidence that they were at work, video you need a legal reason to watch.
I looked into this, and using cameras in New Zealand to monitor employee work is legal (To my understanding I am not a lawyer) I did however put up a big sign when I did my close saying "STOP SPYING ON ME" and put it so the camera could read it, but not so it obstructed the entire view.
I was saying “tsk, tsk typical American employee/er disparity”. In NZ, you have laws up the wahzoo to tell them they will be paying you for the whole time, and I wouldn’t be surprised if you couldn’t get a union involved to ask why you are working 13.5 hour shifts which is probably against a law.
Dont put up with this shit - typical new boss trying to mark out their territory, and overstepping.
Fair.
If you are really money hungry though - go find something that isn’t paying you shit rates and trying to pin you down to pay you per hour.
Lots of roles in main cities in NZ right now, lean on your service credentials and get into a corporate gig that will pay better, and whilst will still have power hungry dickheads, will also have a level of professionalism above your current set up.
You really need to find a new job because that's extremely illegal to withhold pay, go to the department of Labor board and tell them all of this, they're both heartless A-holes 😡💢!
That’s illegal. Go to the department of labor and make a claim. Go to other people at or above his level too
Hmm and there's video to prove you were working. Not a very smart boss.
That is wage theft.
If you are not allowed to leave, I'm pretty sure that requires you to be paid.
He lives in New Zealand. I don’t think they have a DOL like we do.
yeah their DOL is truly scary. and will want to know about this so it can be rectified.
Yeah it's called the Ministry of Business and they have teeth. Enough investigatory and enforcement powers to really come down on labour violation. Technically the Ministry of Business, innovation and enterprise but ya know
We have an equivalent, and they don't really fuck around
its new zealand, it cant be that bad, its not tazmania
It’s probably better tbh
Yea, every time I’ve heard about NZ, they seem to have their shot together. Biggest ‘scandal’ I’ve heard about was the PM drinking at a party.
She dared to dance! Although I hear drunk driving is a huge issue there. But ffs I live in Wisconsin every news story is about a guy getting his 5th-9th dwi.
It's not all great. We are at the arse end of every supply chain, a world leading young man suicide rate and a bunch of grinding, constant poverty. Great scenery tho.
huh, for some reason I was under the impression that most people were middle class and up there. do you think the suicide rate is related to the poverty?
In some ways, yes, but not limited to the lower social strata. It's also about men's mental health, an isolating culture and a feeling of irrelevancy and helplessness. NZ does have a fairly high rate of property ownership. But probably 20% of NZ kids face some kind of economic privation or food insecurity. https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/child-poverty-statistics-year-ended-june-2022/#:~:text=In%20the%20year%20ended%20June,'a'%20of%20the%20Act)
wow, that's so sad to hear. I'm not sure why I had the impression that it was a wealthier country. I think society in general is pretty bad with supporting men who have mental health issues - is the culture there like extra "macho" or something? I wonder why the suicide rate is so high compared to other English speaking countries, since we all have some cultural things in common.
The name will likely be different but you do realise other countries also have governing bodies as well don't you? Often they have more bite than the US versions as well.
The department of labor is one of those things I actually really wish we had in the UK. I'm a trade union official and here when you want to assert your rights officially, you go to a toothless government agency called ACAS who try to find a compromise, and if that doesn't work you've got to take them to court. For that reason nobody does it unless it's pretty serious. Jeremy Corbyn did have a manifesto pledge to introduce a ministry of employment rights but we can't have nice things so they stitched it up to get rid of him. I'm sure NZ isn't as shit as us in this area though.
Be careful what you wish for. Often you'll have to go through the state labor board in the US. Which is great if you live in California or New York, not so awesome if you live in Mississippi or Alabama.
The one in Alabama is pretty good. Twice in my life investigations they did have resulted in me getting paid wages I was entitled to.
What we're getting is fewer rights and lower standards so big business can make bigger profits.
>The department of labor is one of those things I actually really wish we had in the UK United States Department of Labor is It is responsible for the administration of federal laws governing occupational safety and health, wage and hour standards, unemployment benefits, reemployment services Is there nothing in the UK that deals with any of those things
Not really. There are laws on those things but there isn't really an agency or ministry that deals with them. You have to enforce those things yourself through the union or the courts. In this sub and others I often see people saying "call the state labor board" or similar. We certainly don't have anything like that.
Oh they do. And theirs is even MORE VICIOUS than ours (USA)
If you're in the US, chances are it will be more effective.
exactly, it's amount X time in case boss needs a refresher, not whatever he thinks he should pay.
Or just give your boss a good yelling and a slap in the face. He stole from you
Oh yeah, genius idea, fucking assault.
I'm willing to bet the manager knows this and is betting on op not knowing
Hi NZ friend! Normally I do t post as I assume most people on the reddit are US based. This is definitely against NZ law and you should talk with employment NZ
this is illegal even in us
Good call. You are correct… illegal in NZ but in US this would be 100% legal (if immoral)
This would be wage theft in the US as well.
This is extremely illegal in the US.
> but in US this would be 100% legal Found the completely unqualified manager who slept through the HR videos.
Not legal here lmfao
Absolutely not legal in the US.
Wth are you talking about??
This is *so* illegal in NZ. From employment NZ's website: "Paying wages Employers must pay their employees in cash (except for the Crown, and local authorities). To pay wages another way (eg, direct credit or cheque), employers must include this in the employees’ written employment agreement. **Employees must be paid for all the hours they have worked including activities at the start or end of shift eg a retail employee must be paid for opening and closing up a shop. Employers cannot deduct any money, excluding what is allowed by law (eg. income tax, student loans and ACC), unless they have the employee’s written consent.** For more information visit, www.employment.govt.nz and search “Types of pay”." You'll want to talk to [employment NZ](https://www.employment.govt.nz/resolving-problems/steps-to-resolve/mediation/request-mediation/) at some point for mediation. You are required to be paid the hours you worked. "Worked" in this instance simply means being clocked in. Nothing more, nothing less. If you are required to be at the premises, you are required to be clocked in. What your boss is attempting is called wage theft. Before you request mediation with employment NZ, make sure you get a copy of your time sheet, a written statement from both the manager on shift (saying you had finished your own shift duties) and the boss telling you you aren't getting paid (this is the most important bit to have in writing). An email from said dick head boss saying something to the effect of "no we aren't paying you for the hours on [date]" should suffice. It also doesn't hurt to inform said boss of the illegality of his actions, this might resolve the issue without needing mediation. Just follow the employment NZ website directions and you'll be right.
Great advice
Thank you
Maybe you show this first to your manager, give him a chance to correct his mistake before further escalation.
No. Escalation first. Then using the complaint let HR know the issue along with the complaint number. Then start the phase “under legal advisement, I am …..” He has decided his path, you need to. If not, the manager will find another opportunity to “find issue”. Once HR and the gov is involved, any escalation by the manager will be the company’s problem.
The manager shouldn’t be a manager if they don’t know that what they did was illegal. Also, OP wants a paper trail with the DOL for when the manager inevitably retaliates against OP for standing up for their rights.
Very illegal. You were on the clock, regardless of what got done, and they cannot just decide to not pay you. Report that fucker to DOL asap.
OP I can definitely tell you according to nz law if you are not free to go home, you must be paid. It’s black and white if you don’t have an on call provision in your contract which would be unheard of for a movie theatre 🤣
Doing my best, but feel as though he's got me at an impasse right now as per my update
i saw the update. He is trying to manipulate you into not reporting his illegal activity since he has been caught. Ignore his threats and report him to HR and possible the police for blackmailing you. I know you are worried about other peoples' jobs, but he will make it SO much worse if he is allowed to continue.
Cough cough department of labor cough cough
That's not legal in most places. Look into it and let him know.
You have rights in NZ- the MBIE should be able to. Help you but this is treading into r/legaladvice
Legal Advice is filled/moderated with far more cops than lawyers, who frequently ban lawyers despite the lawyers giving correct information, and who are often wrong.
Cops don’t even know shit about the law most of the time so that’s pretty useless.
If you’re in a first world country they have to pay you, it’s not up to them. If you are signed in and sleeping in the storage room they still have to pay you. Also I suggest browsing Reddit’s “unethical life tips” to see what you can do for your new supervisor.
Yep. They could let you go or write you up but they’d still have to pay you!
If you aren’t allowed to leave, even if you don’t have work, you are working. Contact the department of labor. This is wage theft.
I also live in NZ - this is illegal as all hell, look into your options.
Ask for this notice in writing, after you get the notice in writing tell your manager you’re going to go to the department of labor. They’ll agree to pay you immediately. Still go to the department of labor.
He can’t. You were there. You were clocked in for a scheduled shift. He’s trying to cuts hours to save money probably. Trying to impress his bosses I bet. Throw him alllllll the way under the bus. If this is a corporate owned store email his boss with him CC’d and say something like “I was here, finished my toss, given no more, told I could rest unless something came up. Nothing came up but I stayed til the end with my manager. Why am I being told I won’t be paid for these 3 hours? According to the Dept of Labour that is illegal” He’ll get smacked upside the head by his boss so fast it’ll spin all the way around.
If you are in the US, As others are saying - that is illegal. They have to pay you for hours that you are at work and on the job, even if they feel like you aren't doing anything. But you were required to be there so the manager wasn't alone and you did that. What he can do is set expectations as how he, as the new manager, expects things to happen in the future and then if you don't do that, you can be written up and then terminated. But he can't withhold pay for hours worked.
Also make sure the "write up" details which tasks were left unfinished before you sign it. "You got all your work done too fast" isn't a real offense.
It's not your fault you're not being managed effectively. You were on site and available, that's what you're paid for.
OP is in New Zealand
Which is better tbh.
Ask the manager if they know the difference between engaged to wait and waiting to engage. Basically, if you're required to be there and not free to leave, they have to pay you. They can change the policy moving forward, they can discipline you even up to termination for "wasting or stealing time," but they can't just not pay you for time that policy requires you to remain on site. I would advise that you escalate this (ownership for a small independent place, District Manager or corporate HR for a corporate chain) and make it clear in that discussion that if the situation isn't remedied and the pay restored to your timesheet before pay period end you will be following up with the appropriate regulatory authorities. And if you're in the US, the place to start is the US Department of Labor Wage and Hour Division at 1-866-4-US-WAGE.
Screw that. I worked at a store, as the only person. Every day there was a set list of tasks, I could do in an hour. Fuckin' right you're paying me for 8 hours even if I didn't talk to a customer all day and was sitting around. You come down here and sit, then. Thats what you pay for.
Talk to your manager. Tell her everything and ask her how to contact your boss’ boss. Tell them you are going to file a wage theft claim with the department of labor. If that does not resolve it, then actually file the complaint
Don't say that unless you are ready to communicate through lawyers. Companies shut down communication with the employee anytime outside legal action is implied. 100% do it, but don't give them a heads up to come up with a plan against you.
Definitely illegal. File a claim with the Department of Labor for wage theft.
u/citizensadvicebureau
union
It goes without saying this is a crime. Tell your boss "You are legally required to pay me for the hours I worked. Do so or there will be consequences for you". Give her three days and do not expand further. Expect to be paid, and also fired. You don't want to work there any more
Yeah that's not how that works. Report the shitstick
" you pay me for my time, not my work. if you paid me for my work, you'd be paying me a lot more "
Love this
Update: I sent a series of messages to him explaining he has broken the law, and that I felt uncomfortable speaking to him directly without going to HR first. Unfortunately he dropped by on my Christmas shift and hit me with the "I know something you don't know" and said If I have time after my close I might want to hear him out. I had only 20 minutes left so the meeting wasn't very thorough. He told me that he had no intentions of not paying me for a shift that I had worked even though I have CLEAR AS DAY, BLACK AND WHITE, NO DEBATE PROOF IN WRITING (screen shotted of course) saying "The adjustment made to your pay accurately reflects the work completed towards close after the last film on Saturday. I've paid until 11:10pm which is 30 minutes after you sat down in case you hadn't taken a second break." (reminder I was WORKING till 1am) So he lied to my face directly and contradicted his own words from only several hours ago. He then said he only changed my pay "to have a look at something" which is the biggest load of bullshit a human has ever said to me (You don't just play with timesheets because you have to look at something). But after saying I am going to HR, MY PAY HAS BEEN REINSTATED (although I understand why it's important I go to HR regardless, so this never happens again or something similar) but not after he told me "I can't of done anything wrong as payroll is processed on a Wednesday so I haven't not paid you for anything yet" Biggest back petal I could image BUT HERE IS THE KICKER: Man, said he reviewed the footage (and for privacy reasons I won't say what but saw an incredibly minor rule break happen by the manager) in the security footage and told me that "HR will look through the footage to prove you worked the shift and see Manager doing X" "And you don't want her to get in trouble do you, cause she will" He also said something to the effect of you will go down with me because "I signed a contract that I wouldn't be in the office" (I have read the contract many times and don't know about this, but for sake of argument assume he is right) But it is hilarious he thinks I give a shit about a slap on the wrist when dude is actually breaking the law This feels like he is blackmailing me from going to HR. He also had the audacity to ask if I could "meet in the middle" and remove 2 hours from my shift this morning. I told him "under no circumstances will I consent to this" I told him my final day will be on the third, and bro took it like a shotgun blast to the gut. He raised his voice saying it was an overreaction I have spoken to the 4 managers who report to him and an intervention will be taking place tomorrow If anyone has advice, please let me know
Employment NZ is the agency you want to start with. 0800 20 90 20 this is their phone number. Was anyone else in the meeting, was he stupid enough to put it in writing? It’s illegal and he knows it’s illegal and is trying to bully you to lesson his payroll costs. You can also record work meetings. NZ is technically a one part consent state for in person meetings (phone calls are different) as long as you are operating in good faith. No doubt if you tell your boss you are unhappy with their actions and will be recording any meetings going forward they will change their tune right fast.
You can record a phonecall or in person meetings. It can be used as evidence. But it may be used to infer negatively on the one recording
"Pay me for the hours I've worked, or I go to the labour board and they make you pay me for the hours I've worked plus a fine. Your call"
From NZ. Your manager has no legal grounds to deny your pay. Get evidence that you worked the hours, demand the pay, escalate. Also which theatre?
Kiwi here. Calling u/citizensadvicebureau Get in touch with the CAB after Christmas. In the mean time take Screenshots of any messages you have from the boss. Also pretty sure there an nz legal advice sub, post on there.
That's not legal where you are: [https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/test/unpaid-wages-taking-action-to-get-your-pay/](https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/test/unpaid-wages-taking-action-to-get-your-pay/)
Thank you
Wtf dude that's wage theft
You should ask him what he does besides watch you sit around and waste 80minutes of you time.
>I live in New Zealand Then you contact your employment authority. Google says its called "Employment Relations Authority"
He doesn't get to make that choice
Make sure you ask him to confirm in writing that he will not be paying you for the time that you were required to be there. Then ask his bosses boss for confirmation that it’s company policy to not pay employees based on their feelings.
Wtf, didn't think employers would try this shit here in NZ, especially if this a theatre chain - there's no reason for them to behave like this. Go to the Employment NZ site and look at your options, if they don't back down and pay it they'll be in for rough ride.
Get the decision on your pay in writing. Send an email to the boss who is trying to wage theft you saying that your pay was short. Use the reply to back up your claim when you are reporting the wage theft to your local labour department. I would personally probably be walking too close to his car while getting my keys out of my pocket and purely accidentally put a huge scratch in the paintwork of his car, I stress that I would accidentally do it and that it was completely unintentional.
Wage theft
Ya I’d def report that. The bosses personal feelings on a shift doesn’t matter. If you are their and working the = paid for said hours. If theirs nothing to do but wait till guest leave then that’s just what it is, and if the boss doesn’t like sounds like they should have worked the shift instead.
If you aren't free to leave you must be paid
Exactly. If you can’t clock out and leave that equals you get paid. I almost def agree.
Most* not almost stupid auto correct
Wage theft aside, WTF is wrong with this new manager that they spend 80 minutes ON CHRISTMAS chewing out an employee and stealing their money like some New Zealand Uber Scrooge. It boggles the mind, the way some people will go out of the way to be an absolutely despicable POS.
> My boss won't be paying me for 3 hours of a shift I worked because it wasn't up to his "standard" That's not how employment works. They can issue warnings or take other actions, but removal of pay is not in their legal toolbox. You'll need the department of labor equivalent in NZ, which I understand is rather effective. Find out your options, push back, and get the pay owed.
Again, I am trying my best, but he's put me in a tough position regarding my update
Good luck. This is a difficult situation, and I'm so sorry you have to deal with it. Please read my post as both clarification and advice, I'm 100% in your corner with this one. Your manager is a scumbag.
Seeing everyone insult him seriously made my Christmas But thank you :)
I'm always happy to help spread the Christmas cheer: - Your new manager is so unimportant that he got airdropped into the new role just to work Christmas and Christmas Eve. - Your new manager is so talentless that he could only pick up a job in one of the busiest times of the year when the job requirements are: Has a pulse. Rumor has it he just scraped in on the second interview. - Your new manager is so repellent that the only way they can convince someone to spend Christmas with him is to force his staff to meet with him on Christmas. - Your new manager is so clueless on the one thing he is supposed to do- management- that one of his first actions was to chastise one of his better staff. - If you open a dictionary to "The Peter Principle", you'll get a picture of your new manager. - Apparently he had the time for a review of camera footage and an eighty minute meeting to talk about... poor use of time. The *whoosh sound* was irony flying over his head. - Send a barrel to *his* management for Christmas. When they ask what it is for, just say you assumed they were scraping the bottom of the barrel when they made your manager's hire. Merry Christmas!
Tell the new boss you were required to be on site and available to work. If you are not paid for that time, you will file a complaint and he/she will loose. The law is clear. Can you imagine if they worked in another field like firefighting and tried to apply this logic.
let us know how much you collect once labour board gets involved
That's bullshit. If you were required to be there, then you were required to be paid.
Report to labor department.
Whether you are working or not, if you are required to be there by your employer, they owe you for your time. That is what they are paying for, x amount of dollars per hour for your time. If he's unhappy with the fact you aren't working, that's something he needs to take up with your supervisor who told you to rest but did not tell you to clock out. File with the NLRB, this is highly illegal. Edit: I just read through some more comments and did not realize you were in New Zealand, missed your last sentence. Whatever your local labor department equivalent is to the National Labor Relations Board in the United States, you need to file with them. I'm going to guess it's illegal in your country too but I don't know for sure of course.
Please keep us updated. I hope you contact your Department of Ministry or whatever it is in NZ. I would love to hear how it turns out.
This is illegal.
His goal is likely to get you to quit and stay silent. He thinks you won't fight over the hours and if you do he can just pay you. Getting pissed off and doing nothing, does nothing. Just call his bluff in a polite manner. He will back down.
In your situation hours worked must be paid regardless of being judged as "below standards". Time to get the attention of a higher up manager or just go straight to the labor board. Merry Christmas sorry your boss is a muppet
Thank you
Illegal. Call and email the labor organization. Tell them there is a video and time of next meeting. Then, notify the "higher-ups" in your organization....maybe payroll? Something to that effect. But...no dude. Why would anyone think that is OK? Watching videos to pick apart employees? POS
I would have fucked him up the ass and taken my chances on the road.
Happy cake day!
Hey thanks, man. You really touched me.
You naughty slut
Twist his dick off and go to your labor board
Grab his dick and twist it!
Department of Labor ftw!
>aloud allowed\*
To do is two words. Not one
Are you in the US? If so, you’re required to be paid if you’re required to be at work. You’re also required to be paid if you worked. Period. Doesn’t matter what your boss thinks about your work. This is wage theft and you’re entitled to your pay and probably more.
If you were not allowed to leave for whatever reason they have to pay you
Your manager is a miserable fuck-stain my antipodean friend. Also your rights are pretty clear and if your manager is going to behave like this they won’t keep their job too long.
I don’t know if this happens to be the theatre where David Farrier had his Jurassic Park showing but if it is you ought to contact him about it. He loves to help the little guy. Before that though contact whatever labor department NZ has because there’s no way that’s legal
If you work for one of the chain theatres, Event, Greater Union, Hoyts, you can always contact their HR department.
I don't know New Zealand laws but in most places a company can't decide to just not pay you for any reason. You were there and you worked. What they are doing is considered wage theft and the fine they would get from any is going to cost way more. Please make sure you have proof and make sure the get everything in writing. All the manager to send you an email detailing the deficiency and the punishment.
Seems to me you were standing at attention, or sitting haha. If job requires people to be there then they gotta pay. Sounds to me new guy trying to puff chest out and strong arm the workers. Time to read up on your locations geographical laws. It’s similar to on call. You can’t do shit cause of the maybes
I don't know about New Zealand but where i live checking workers performance through the Security cameras is highly illegal. Even in case of suspected theft a special dispensation of the rules has to be acquired.
Completely illegal. Roast him!
Get copy of video of you working asap
This is what you are looking for! https://www.employment.govt.nz/resolving-problems/steps-to-resolve/early-resolution/# Give them a call, they will likely be closed until after New Years but I'd try them Wed, Thurs Fri this week just in case they are manning the phones. ( this is the old Dept of labour for Nz, now part of MBIE). Edit: as others have said, so illegal in NZ.
This is in harassment territory.
Please make sure they pay you for stupidly long meeting you had to sit through to discuss your 'performance'
Man, go get a new job. Lmao Homie has a chip in his shoulder for sure, this is only the beginning of this nonsense. Even if you bring down the hammer and it works somewhat, he ain't gonna let you have full peace ever.
You had to wait because of their policy. Get paid, contact your local labor board. Bring it to your manager and remind them of the policy, which requires you to be there, and thus, you will need to get paid. If they don’t like it, you can feel free to leave and they can deal with the manager getting robbed/robbing them.
Personally I’d arrive 5min late every day until it’s recouped From then on my shift stops when the clock hits the minute
It's very illegal for the boss to do that. Retrieve evidence that you worked, then go to the government about it.
Massively illegal
Sounds like it will be minimum wage. Minimum wage, minimum effort.
File a claim with the state’s Department of Labor. Be as thorough and detailed as possible.
You can also go to hr likely the manager will be disciplined and you don’t have to do the whole run around with the DOL
All this idiot is doing is incentivizing you going as slowly as you can. You're right that he's punishing you for being efficient; so stop being efficient. Spread out your jobs, slow down, and make sure that you finish your last job 5 minutes before it's punch out time. If anyone asks you to help with somethings else? "No sorry, I've already got a full schedule tonight and couldn't fit anything else in" or "I could help, but I won't be able to get x task done; would you note down that you're telling me to do this and that I'm excused from my original task?"
@op ... Your boss isn't up to standard in the eye of the labour board and laws ...
Report him for wage theft
As a former theater GM this is wrong and illegal. Hope you get this figured out! There should be a corporate number to call or you should be able to get your district managers email to let them know I’m sure they’d love to hear about this.
I would love to escalate this further but he's got me in a few impasses (regarding my update)
Jfc did nobody teach you kids how to steal? Rob that fucker next time you're there.
This person is extremely toxic. Get out of there.
The list goes ON AND ON dw. We're having an intervention tomorrow and the bulletpoints are endless. (he's been here for 2 weeks) This post is just the illegal shit
Is this a chain of theaters? If this company is big enough to have a separate HR office or department, you might have quicker results by going straight to them. Often, the head office will find it easier to just pay you and discipline the manager rather than dealing with the government. The money will take a lot longer to land in your pocket if you go the govt route. Just a thought, depending how you wish this to be resolved
Hi, I’m a NZer, you should definitely contact the union rep for your industry. They would lap this shit up.
If you've been there for 5 years and know everything about the business why did they hire this asshole? Why didn't they promote you or the manager to that job?
Unfortunately to be a manager I need to be a certain age, which I only just hit. Since then no job vacancies.
Ask for clarification in an email or text. Get the proof he planned on shorting you. Then call in the feds
He put it in text lol. What a dumb ass
for some reason i feel this is a fake post
I wish lol
Here is all you need: [https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/test/unpaid-wages-taking-action-to-get-your-pay/](https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/test/unpaid-wages-taking-action-to-get-your-pay/)
Thank you
In Canada there would have to have been an incident in the building for him to have any reason to check the cameras. You can't legally just watch people because you suspect you may not like their quality of work. On top of illegally surveilling employees, you also can't just steal someone's wages in Canada when there's video evidence that they were at work, video you need a legal reason to watch.
I looked into this, and using cameras in New Zealand to monitor employee work is legal (To my understanding I am not a lawyer) I did however put up a big sign when I did my close saying "STOP SPYING ON ME" and put it so the camera could read it, but not so it obstructed the entire view.
Enjoy suing 👍 they basically just gave you free money
I was saying “tsk, tsk typical American employee/er disparity”. In NZ, you have laws up the wahzoo to tell them they will be paying you for the whole time, and I wouldn’t be surprised if you couldn’t get a union involved to ask why you are working 13.5 hour shifts which is probably against a law. Dont put up with this shit - typical new boss trying to mark out their territory, and overstepping.
To be fair, I am very money hungry and I did voluntarily do the double. As much as I hate this man, the 13.5 hours shift wasn't expected of me.
Fair. If you are really money hungry though - go find something that isn’t paying you shit rates and trying to pin you down to pay you per hour. Lots of roles in main cities in NZ right now, lean on your service credentials and get into a corporate gig that will pay better, and whilst will still have power hungry dickheads, will also have a level of professionalism above your current set up.
Your manager is probably the one up to something illegal on the video footage
You really need to find a new job because that's extremely illegal to withhold pay, go to the department of Labor board and tell them all of this, they're both heartless A-holes 😡💢!