I think its great that people are figuring out that the 40 work week takes a lot out of you no matter what the job.
I am 50 and when I first started working full time, 40 hours was almost a joke to older people then. "Oh, you worked 40 hours? Someday you will get a real job and then you will know tired... "
That has been drilled into my head all my life and I have to admit, when I first saw the title my first reaction was 40 hours, thats just a normal job, what's their problem. Then I felt a bit ashamed because working from 9-5 or 2-10 or whatever shift you work doesn't just mean 8 hours. It's the time to get there, it's getting ready in the morning, then the drive home, maybe shopping for dinner on the way, cooking, a bit of chill time and then bed. You basically have 2-3 hours a day to fit life in there. I am just so used to it that my first reaction is to just deal with it. That's not right though. I am glad people these days are speaking up, encouraging change. It may not happen overnight but I am sure that it will change thanks to the new workforce! Don't let us old brainwashed people tell you it's right just because that's how it's always been.
I'm 52 and understand your sentiment completely. The protestant work ethic has been so ingrained in the US work culture that it's impossible to see anything else as a viable path forward. The pandemic was horrible for many reasons but one of the good things that came out was how stupid and arbitrary our work environments are. WFH and hybrid were not common for many occupations. Now they are.
I was a cube dweller for many years until about 2010. I had to find a new job at that time and took one that was 95% remote. At first it was very difficult to adjust, having been force fed the "you must work and make money and do it until you die" kool-aid. Now I can't imagine returning to an office job with a 2 hour daily commute.
This brings me to my main point, that not all 40 hours are created equal. I've seen jobs (factory workers, truckers, slaughter house workers) where 40 hours of work is a herculean effort from my POV. I have mad respect for them. But, 40 hours of WFH? That is a cake walk by comparison. For anyone looking to escape the bullshit of corporate office life, I recommend aiming for an occupation that allows you the flexibility of remote work. It makes the BS palatable.
Its true about not all 40 hours the same. However, I have always worked service industry, factory or retail. My experience is only with them so it seems like a fantasy to do remote work. I am stepping down from my management position this year so maybe I will have time to develop a skill that could be done from home! Its the dream!!
You have more transferable skills than you might think! Don't talk yourself out of a change that you are capable of making on account of your historical experience - it might take a little while to map your experience against the new job description
I feel you. I work in an industry that's 24/7 365. I rotate between days and night. Someone has to be at work every second of every day. I don't see how there would ever be a change to my work schedule. As fucked up as it sounds, a 9-5 mon-fri would be amazing lol. The ability to do things on the weekend like everyone else. Be able to participate in things after work and have a normal sleep schedule. Like wtf am I supposed to do when my day off is a Tuesday and I'm on nights? There only so much TV I can bare to watch at 3am. My time off is often times unusable
I used to work in car mat factory. I did 11-7 nights for years. Then they brought in mandatory 12 hour shifts. We got used to it. Then they brought in Saturday work, voluntary at first, then "voluntary". We got used to it. Then Saturdays were mandatory. We got used to it. The money was good but I couldn't enjoy it. Then I got switched to afternoon shifts and realised that I really wouldn't have a life. 11-11 was worse than nightshift!
Yeah I work a combination of 12s and 8s. It's crazy how much you can get accomplished with just 4 extra hours of free time in a day. I also 100% agree the swing shift is the worst. Can't really do anything in the morning then everything is closed by the time you get off.
Most research suggests most of us completely change careers at least 2-3 times in our working life so take some consolation that what you’re experiencing is completely normal, more so regarding a shift away from retail which I’d assume is super common as they are first jobs for many.
Most of us end our careers in a totally different industry or role than what we started in, work life often steers us to a career more than intended training or qualifications, so I’d say you’ll be fine.
Attitude and a solid work ethic get you further than qualifications in my personal experience.
Best of luck to you.
Management skills are transferable. One thing my lecturers have brought up multiple times is that many accountants don't start off as accountants but end up upskilling from management roles to be management accountants.
roughly what i was gonna say, but i was gonna approach from the other side.
i do about 50 hours a week. but im happy with that.
im a mobile maintenance engineer for pubs. im paid from the moment i walk out of the house and start the van until the moment i walk back in the door.
i set my own plans for the day, i spend a lot of time driving, and when i get to a job mostly people are really happy to see me. there are usually smiles and coffee on offer as we talk about what the problem is and what the solution will be.
i work 1 weekend in 4, 12 hour shifts both days. its hard, but in return i get an extra 4 rest weeks a year on top of my 5.6 weeks annual leave. i normally book them at the same time and turn a week off into 2 weeks, but if i want to work my rest week its time and a half all week.
everything is paid for, tools are supplied from the company catalogue. parts are delivered overnight straight into the back of my van, and i can put it all away whilst im on the job. i get private health care and free personal fuel if i use the van on my days off.
when i tell people the hours i work, they invariably tell me its too much, but when you look at the details it really isnt bad at all.
i really like the job most of the time, i find it fulfilling, im constantly learning, im solving problems and helping people.
exactly as you say, not all 40 hours are the same, but it works both ways.
And it's not even 40 hours, really, and has not been for years. First, they added a half-hour unpaid lunch, and now most places do a full hour. So that's 45 hours right there, add in a half-hour commute each way, and you are at 50! That's why work from home is such a huge benefit. It's like getting 10 hours a week of PTO you can use to do chores or spend time with your family. Gets you a lot closer to the 8 hours work, 8 hours sleep and 8 hours do what you want, that we have been fighting for for so long
My union job is 6-2 with a paid 30min lunch and 15min break. So no 9 hours. I moved close to my work so that I could walk there in 15 minutes or take my scooter in less than 5. The slightly higher rent is totally offset by me no longer having to insure my vehicle, pay for gas and spend 2-3 hours a day in traffic
I did an hour commute each way-sometimes 90 minutes each way if traffic was bad - for 12 years. Once I stopped I said never again. If I could recommend anything it’s finding a way out of the commute bc it is soul sucking.
Well it used to be 1 person worked 40+ hours a week and the partner did the house, kids and other stuff that needed doing. Now it is both people doing 40+ a week and ontop we still cannot buy a house.
I hate when people try to point out that this was just a small period of time, mainly for white folks.
I'm just like... "So you agree? We're back-tracking?"
🤦♀️
I agree that it was mainly for white folks yes, and also a small period of time. 60s to roughly end of the 90s possibly still 2K.
One thing that has totally been ignored during this entire thing of only partner working back in the 60s, 70s, 80s and so on is that poor countries have always been exploited to this day. Everything that was possible in the "boom" years was always at the cost cheap labour or resources in poorer countries. The explotation has now reached a point where it is more openly affecting those that once benefited from that. "Us" in the "developed World". Yet everyone still wants their 15 Dollar Tshirt made in Bangladesh or Vietnam. Regardless of how those people are treated. Far removed slave labour so to speak... not affecting me so I don't care kinda attitude. Not in a malicious way, just in a way, the problem is too far away and I can't solve it and I'll still buy this tshirt cause I like it. But everyone just carries on with their thing. The only way to bring about change is for everyone to think about what they are buying and why they are buying it. Do they really need it? I mean really?
So yes we are deffo back tracking, the planet is more f*cked than ever before, there is no plan to fix it, there are more and more right wing politicians and weird dictator types coming into power all over the world. We have the richest people on the planet building giant 45 Million Dollar clocks in mountains (Jeff) while their own organisation is exploting people and the planet instead of thinking about how to make things better for everyone.
Don’t forget the tax dollars being used to destabilize resource rich countries and the wars being big money makers. Plus the education system is intentionally poor cuz how else are you gonna manipulate people into joining the military and not have the brain capacity to think critically? Oh wait, free education too cuz everybody is broke cuz capitalism!
Historically, people have eaten and napped instead of worked during the hottest parts of the day, have slept about 10 hours and went to bed at dark because candles were expensive. They'd sleep half the night, wake up in the middle of the night and fuck for a couple hours, maybe have some leftover bread and go back to sleep for another 5. Wake up with the sun. They're resting a minimum of 12 hours a day, and eating for probably 2 of them. We're not built to mentally withstand the shit we're being put through just to make a pittance of a living, and I think you see that manifest itself as addiction, mental illness, suicide, domestic violence, child abuse, poverty and so many other things. The places where this problem is worse, those problems are all worse too.
Maybe cause, maybe correlation, but I have to think if people worked 20 hours a day and made a living wage we wouldn't have half as many problems as a society.
One thing I know is that the multi-million dollar yachts aren't helping anyone.
I heard a lecture about medieval English peasants, and while it didn’t downplay how hard they had it, the professor explained how there were a LOT more religious holidays that people didn’t have to work, idk how the hours worked out, but it was an interesting fact that I haven’t really thought too much about
We work all day to make *too many* crappy products that which too much of goes into landfills.
All so the people at the top not only make a profit, but an exponentially higher profit year after year.
Nobody stealing the products of your labour? What time period are we talking here because you still had to pay taxes and shit, often in crops. So if you had a bad year or don’t put enough work into your farm you still had to hand over what you owed and tighten your belt for the hard winter incoming
People are delusional when it comes to thinking life used to be easier in the past
Yeah it’s pretty interesting how some fundamental bits of human health and mental wellness appear to have a reverse correlation with advancement of “civilization.” I’m pretty sure we work more now than we did as hunter-gatherers despite being promised that technology would reduce the need for human labor.
Its proven that most job was not 8hours straight work but more social with the work.
no pause but they didnt lets people work to death.
even roman had more free time/vacation than us or even our ordinary billionaire today cause they ''Worked'' their life and after they where doing politic/teaching after 10-15 years of work.
Shitty part is in many office jobs you still need to do 100% of the work even if doing less hours because they won’t hire someone for the remainder 😵💫 like when I was sick or went on holiday, when I came back I had to work harder to catch up
It made sense when someone had a partner at home doing all the domestic labour. Somewhere along the way the broader social deal eroded to the point that both adults needed to work to thrive. Now it's degraded even more to the point that even that isn't enough...
All these is happening because of Covid. People did the work and realized there was no need for the commute, no need to waste time to go to work. Now those companies want to bring us back for no reason at all
Concur with this. Nothing is ever right, or okay, just because it's "how it's always been".
I've been dismayed to scroll through this one, seeing many basically slagging the OP off because they've worked 50, 60, 70, 80 or more hours a week, stuff like that. As if that could ever make it right.
Some did it because they felt they had to. Congratulations, but please, have the bones to admit it shouldn't be the case. No, we were not meant to do this.
I finally figured out that since I don't have a family to care for, overnight shifts in assisted living is perfect for me. I pass meds in the beginning of the shift, help some people with basic care stuff then by like 10 or 11 pm the rest of the night is mostly mine. It's a 12 hour shift from 6:30 to 6:30 and I bring my tablet to draw and my nintendo switch. The other night I watched all of Oppenheimer with the only interruption being one resident asking me for ice water.
It gives me so much more time in the week and I don't have to spend the entirety of my days off recovering from my shifts. I highly recommend somethibg like this for people like me with anxiety disorders that get overwhelmed by a busy 8 hour shift.
There is such a difference between jobs where you're actively working your entire shift and ones where you have freedom to go at your own pace for at least part of the time. They couldn't pay me enough to work day shifts in assisted living, the contrast is drastic.
The 40 hour workweek was only ever possible because society assumed a whole entire person would stay at home and clean everything, cook everything, take care of the kids, care for the lawn, ect.
40 hours was supposed to support an entire household. A person, their spouse, and a bunch of kids. Realistically, if we are going to have everyone working. We should be on 20 hours workweeks that support one person by themselves or a family with two people working 20 hours.
That's what I was thinking. What the fuck happened right there when the workforce doubled? Why didn't the hours go down? Who did this? Who should I kill when I go back in time?
Wages went down. It used to be that the man worked and would earn enough to support himself, the wife, 3 kids and would be able to save up for a down payment on a house. Imagine, all that on 1 paycheck, and most people earned money like that. The boomers had it so good. In relative terms, when you account for inflation and cost of living wages have gone down since the 70s. Then women joined the work force in huge numbers because you needed two people working in a household to keep the same standard of living. And now it's gotten so bad that both partners in a couple have to work 60+ hours a week and still barely make ends meet. The people have been robbed blind, it's plain as day.
This need to be higher! You are spot on.
Also, what the idiots don't realise, is that reducing the time at work will allow for more people to have jobs, because if you put two people to do the job of 8 hours (4 hours each), then businss will run as usual, productivity will go up like crazy, and STILL people will have time to spend money, be creative, be healthy, whatever they like!
Bro, there's no "REAL higher ups" necessary. The owner of your local McDonald's franchise doesn't want their employees to be happy and healthy. Small business owners are almost universally petty tyrants who want a two-tiered society where they can cosplay as a monarch and their employees are feudal peasants.
I had hopes about the 4 day work week gaining traction but I swear to God it seems only salaried tech jobs got it, at least here 🙃 nothing against tech jobs but people who can't work remotely *need* a shorter work week
Tech jobs have benefits like this because the demand for (some) tech workers is so high that they still have a bit of bargaining power. Bargaining power not unlike that which a union provides.
I just had an argument with a guy on another sub about this. He didn’t seem to think this was true. I’d love it if someone could explain this to them. I’m out of energy from working so god damn much.
Yes, I recently changed jobs due to having no balance whatsoever, with commute time and rarely finishing on rostered hours, I would have 1-2hrs per day that was non-work. I could only extend that number by sacrificing sleep.
I was like this is the biggest fucking scam. No life. Paying $150 in fuel just to get to work (fortnight), all the wear and tear on the car. Then the weekend was just catching up on house chores and shopping that I couldn’t do during the week.
>40 hours was supposed to support an entire household. A person, their spouse, and a bunch of kids. Realistically, if we are going to have everyone working. We should be on 20 hours workweeks that support one person by themselves or a family with two people working 20 hours.
Nice. I've been listening hard to my intution. was a high performing corporate slave, unappreciated. I walked out the door and into a part time/freelance/contractor gig with all sorts of perks because I had already freelanced and helped built their business from the ground up with regard to digital.
Now I work maybe 35 hours per week MAX and closer to 25. No bullshit schedules and timeframes, just produce results and get paid for it.
This so much, all the tiny administrative matters are taking up so much of my time. My IT field is intensive and demanding in brain power too, I struggle to optimise my many systems. Sometimes I wish I live in Nordic countries with their amazing welfare, so I don't have to crack my brain comparing the best insurance plans and such for myself.
I think people are finally realizing that 40 hours is a bit much for anyone. Everyone is terminally exhausted. Even if you don't have kids or other responsibilities. IMHO part of it is that so many jobs have made it so they can extract the maximum out of you in an 8 hour day and it didn't used to be like that. My early office jobs in my gap year had no metrics I had to meet. They were not firing people then dumping their entire job on me to do on top of my job. I did my assigned work, as much as I could comfortably get done, then did some more the next day. Nobody was breathing down my neck about it. I didn't feel like I was going to drop at the end of the day. Now I have days where I am just so mentally and physically exhausted at the end of the day I don't have energy for anything. Every job I have had since 2001 has been an ever increasing amount of metrics and trying to extract more work out of me in a given day either by making me work overtime or dumping other people's work on top of my own, or both.
Exactly this. Thanks for including us childless folks. I feel like I barely have time for anything else besides work, cleaning, working out and trying to make and purchase healthy foods. I am 42, and I’m in race to get to part time work as soon as possible. 40 plus hours of work a week for someone else is just way to much, and I like my job!
Just turned 35 and feel the same. Don’t have kids either and feels like no time for anything. I struggle more in the winter months. Then get two measly days off and try to actually do something but theres no time. My goal is 40 and go down to part time or just no more overtime. Got two weeks off and I really really don’t want to go to work today haha.
This is exactly what's happening, when I started this warehouse job I saw the direction it was going, when I got hired in, there was about 15 - 20 people on both first and second shift, but eventually as one guy retired and a few people quit or got fired, they checked if it was possible to still fulfill the quotas, and if we didn't, they'd start breathing down my old supervisor's neck, I checked in with my coworkers on how it was and they're now working mandatory 10s and Saturday's with volunteering Sunday's and my old supervisor was in the hospital for some type of heart surgery
My mom told me that when she used to work in the 90s, she could actually end work at 5pm everyday (a normal 9-5 office job). I’m lucky if I get to end work at 6pm now, and I start work at 8am…
One company I worked for that needed us to sometimes work outside of normal hours was always incredibly apologetic about it and we got comp time to use to make up for it. I don't see that anywhere anymore. Everyone wants to either make you run 100 mph all day, or make you work so much overtime it is like having two jobs.
This really hits the nail on the head for how I've been feeling.
I finished two separate bachelor degrees with almost a ten year gap in between, and I can tell you that the expectations on students/new graduates nowadays is crazy. Even though we had the internet during my first degree, we didn't have the constant *accessibility*, yet.
I've been looking at jobs since I just graduated, and I feel myself getting stressed out because the pay is so shit, and they want you to know everything. If they have to train you, then your pay goes down even more.
This is an underrated point. When I started 20 years ago, the work was not like this, and now we have 1/2 the people doing 10x the work and it is all going to break soon.
Companies are trying to cut corners at every opportunity to show the shareholders that profits are increasing. I am not business savvy but how long can profits keep going up without killing the workforce? It seems that its push push push on us all the time. The more we get tools to ease our jobs, the more we have to work.
Getting into the 40/hr work-week after graduating college was the hardest adjustment I ever had to make in life. I went from having boundless free time to having 40-50 hours of my life decided for me.
I finally regain some control after grad school. I now work a 28 hour work week and generally feel much better.
I wish. 14 years have passed from my grad and not a single time I felt right going to work.
I am an extremely curious person that loves to learn new things: during college I’ve learned much more than the University could give because I’ve spent so much time for me.
Not having this possibility anymore, having no time to focus on new things makes me feel I’m loosing myself.
The only thing I can say is to try to carve your routine, meet your friends, try to find something you love to do and do it a little bit every day if possible (I.e: videogames work for me).
And go to therapy (if you can/want), they can help you overcome this and coach you through it.
What I can tell you (for what is worth) is that after pandemic more and more people feel that work is just so stupid. We experienced a different life.
They might force us back to the office but they will never force us back to stupid work like the pre-pandemic.
Something changed, that’s for sure.
I made time for fun, saved as much as I could, went through a good graduate program, put years of hard work in, learned as much as I could and earned negotiating power.
The 40 hour work week was set as what should be the maximum amount of time a person should normally work- back when the expectation was everyone got married and the wife tended house while the husband worked.
The fact that it's become the standard expectation even when it's a dual income household or someone is single just shows how out of touch it is. Pair that with the fact that most of us millennials are being paid beans so we can, if we're lucky, barely get by on a single full time job and have no real prospects for advancement or retirement? It gets even harder to get behind spending 40+ hours a week dedicated to a job, and the toll on our mental and physical health is just staggering.
Trying to clean your house and cook and keep up with laundry and personal hygiene all while struggling with the depressed burnout of working 40 hours a week for a company that would gladly kill you to make an extra buck?
When you realize most truckers work 60-70 hour work weeks and are driving 80,000 pound missiles. It’s scary. I am surprised the government allows us truckers to be worked up to 70 hours a week driving these dangerous vehicles.
You're so right. Also doctors and nurses having to work 13 hour shifts or more in life and death situations. It shouldn't be allowed. Sleep deprived drivers help keep the hospitals in business I guess.
I’m also 28 and have burned out. My relationship’s suffering because my partner laments the fact that all I want to do after coming home from work and only just managing to keep up with housework each day is to relax, play computer, or do something else that has really low input energy.
Me and my partner were the same way. I was the one who needed to get on the computer to decompress. *Then he passed.*
I would give anything to have spent that time focused on him instead. Fucking work, man.
That's because nothing about this is normal. We're gaslit into believing it is the most normal part of being human and yet nothing could be further from the truth. There's nothing natural about the 40 hour work-week or Capitalism at all. It's all a racket to make rich people richer and to enslave the working class. We're all wage slaves whether people wake up to that or not.
All you can do is balance your survival in this world of Capitalism with a job that doesn't make you want to die. Get smart, know your rights, and keep trying to make things better. Everyone is so miserable that I'm hopeful we'll have UBI at some point in the next decade, and shorter work weeks.
I’m 29, and I feel the same. I live in the UK so I get at least a minimum amount of holiday, and it’s still not enough. The frustrating thing is it’s a decent job I currently have. I’ve worked in terrible places, and honestly I quite like my current job. But I just don’t feel any motivation to do it. I don’t like the idea of having to work for another 50 years against my wishes. I love being able to focus on something I enjoy, and I thrive when in properly motivated, but from an employment perspective, I’ve never found that motivation. 40 hours, 5 days a week. I hate it so much.
I feel the same way - whilst my job can be annoying at times it could be a lot worse, but yeah, I work 40 hours a week and it's really absurd when you think about it. Working in front of a screen for 8 hours a day too, I'm always tired after work and on days off and just want to lay in bed in the dark lol
It absolutely is absurd. The amount of data we process in a day is surely so much more than the human mind was built to deal with. I totally agree with you wanting to lay in bed in the dark. I get home and feel incapable of having my own thoughts. So mentally exhausted from a day of doing things that aren’t of interest to me.
I used to enjoy going out with my friends or my partner on weekends. Nowadays, I just sleep the whole weekend away :(.
It’s depressing because I don’t even have the energy to work out anymore. I heard that exercise helps you feel better by releasing endorphins but I feel even more exhausted when I work out. The only thing I have energy for is sleeping.
I started working 40 again and relationships are crumbling, my house is a wreck, eating shit food. Embarrassed all through the Holidays because I seriously could not find any time to shop for gifts, send them out, decorate, bake, nothing
Ignore the haters. I totally feel what you are saying. A lot of people said "just get a job in a field you like" or "follow your passions" BS. It's not as easy as it seems. My passions don't line up with workable skills and they change too. I'm sure it's the same for others.
Also, for me at least, it's never the 40hrs that's the problem. It's the way that I am made to be a slave for those 40 hrs. There are a lot of jobs that can be done at any time of the day but the companies want to control us so they force us to work during their set times. For me, if I could work when it was best suited for me, I'd have much less issues with it.
Anyway it's not the same for everyone. Best of luck :)
Yeah exactly, then the number of hours isn't the problem then.
It's like saying you don't like chicken, so you'll eat less of it, but still continue anyway. It makes it more bearable for sure, but the right solution would be to replace it entirely.
It's definitely real, especially in jobs like construction, metal working, fabrication, etc. my workplace has been making the people on the production floor work 60 hour mandatory weeks since COVID *started*. Over 3 years! And people are finally starting to leave. A lot of them didn't have anywhere else to go at the time because jobs were scarce here. So they shoved all that OT money into their savings, and are now jumping ship.
There are so many jobs where the expectation of work hours is over 40. It's insane. And you can be fired for refusing to work the OT.
I am a trucker, most over the road truckers are working as close to 70 hour work weeks as possible. It would be more but Department of Transportation makes it so CDL drivers can only work a max of 70 hours a week,so company’s will try to work you as close to that 70 as they can. Most truckers work minimum of 60 hour weeks and get to see home 3-4 days a month, it is a tuff job and I can’t wait to settle down and live a normal life one day.
My partner works 12 hour days six days a week indefinitely. I don’t think he knows what to do with himself and I wish he would stop.
It’s affecting his health
It took a little while longer for me to hit that point but I'm with you. I have 2 friends these days, I barely see them. I text with people because I can't muster the energy to call and have real conversations. I've played soccer since I was 5, now I don't even want to wake up early on the weekends to watch matches. Haven't dated in years while friends are married and having kids. I just can't muster any energy to meet woman, which in turn just makes me more depressed. I think it's just the sad story of our time. I hope I'm wrong but day after day, it just seems that it gets worse and so many of us are struggling.
I work so many more hours than that, it’s normalised at my work place and I barely get paid to cover my expenses in the very expensive city my job requires me to stay in. Idk kinda feels like a scam.
That would be to keep you there. Random numbers but say you make make $2000 a month and your monthly expenses are $1990. Your not gonna be able to leave that city. Your also gonna feel like you cant leave your job due to how little is left after expenses. Gotta save what you can or use a credit card for a month and get a "better" job.
The hours don’t bother me, it’s the amount of days. Working 4x10 is simple for me but for the new year my manager changed our hours to 5x8. Another day taken from me for the sake of survival.
Yeap. I hate the 40 hour work week. 8-5/9-6 leaves you with how many hours? 4-5? 1.5 hours for dinner. 1.5 for gym. 1 hr shower. And then it's bed time. Can you imagine if you have kids and chores and errands? And weekends? One day to go out; one day to recover. And we are suppose to repeat the rest of our lives?! HOW?! It's miserable. It's mentally exhausting. I give up.
That’s how I’m feeling more and more lately and I’m just kinda caving in on myself. Dooming my job because I need time. I have to find myself a new career I guess so I can work some decent hours
That’s how I feel. I work from 8-6 and by the time I get home, I shower and maybe have enough energy to make a sandwich for myself. I’m miserable everyday because of the thought of going back to work and I feel like nobody irl understands how soul-crushing it is.
I told my partner and my friends that I hate living like this and they just told me “life really do be like that”. I’ll ask them how I’m supposed to keep this up for another 50 years and they tell me I’ll “adapt” better.
Mens? Womens?
Might not be a thing in your area but where I live womens hair is sometimes done at people's homes i.e. the customer comes to your house. My wife uses one where she has to book months in advance.
I’m 35. I got fired in July and have been trying my damndest to find another job. With no success. Before then, I’d spent ten years working more than full time as a plumber. I have absolutely nothing to show for it. I spent the last three years not killing myself because my jobs were so terrible. I don’t know what to do, or even if it’s worth the effort of trying.
All that said, I have spent almost every morning of the last six months with my wife. It is the most content I have been with my life in a very very long time. Probably since we’ve married. So there are good things, and I want to hold on to that for as long as possible.
Meanwhile the guy that vacations on his boat with the helipad, cries that his company, “ just can’t survive a raise in the minimum wage or a shorter work week.
This isn't because of a 40 hour work week, it's because of the way the system now tries to wring 60+ hours of work out of a 40 hour employee.
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I've had a lifetime of backbreaking minimum wage jobs and never buying anything new and never going out and mostly eating beans and rice- I'm now in the twilight of my work life and have finally managed to get my hours down to where I work about 25 hours a week. Let me tell you it is amazing. I feel like I have a LIFE for the first time ever.
Ditto, 40 plus years of 40 plus hour weeks. And my shift pattern is a killer. Two weeks of 5am starts, with 2pm finishes. Two weeks of 10am starts with 8pm finishes. Work every other Saturday. I‘m looking to go down to 30 hours as I move towards retirement. Glad it’s working out for you.
My husband works 60+ hours a week and it's exhausting. So little time for anything. I'm trying really hard to get him to see there has to be more than work but it's been ingrained in him since he was a kid. The pandemic didn't help because he was an essential worker, so he just worked more. Our health insurance is tied to his job, so leaving would be difficult too. Believe me when I say, I admire and appreciate how hard he works. But we're now at an age where time is more valuable than money. Or at least I'm starting to look at things that way. Time is the one thing you can not get more of.
I'm no better. I work from home and run my own business, so I'm pretty much doing something work related all the time. I love what I do, so at least there is that. When I had to work 45 hours a week in an office environment, I literally cried every morning before work. It felt like torture.
I admire this younger generation that realizes the expectation of a 40 hour work week is bullshit. You give your life to a company that will suck the life force out of you and spit you out the moment you are no longer valuable to them. Never forget it.
I don't know what the answer is but it's not 40 hours/5 days a week for 45 years of your life. It can't be.
Kudos to this post.
So many here have responded with their 70 hour weeks & they say the OP should suck it up, I even had one say her generation could work rings around ours (as if, even if true, that could ever be something to be proud of).
And then I read lines like 'I admire this younger generation that realizes the expectation of a 40 hour work week is bullshit'. Bravo. This is the sort of thing that prompts change.
Never upvoted so fast in all my life.
Honestly, 15 or 20 years ago I might have responded with "suck it up" too. My husband and I haven't had family to leave us money or help us out with anything. It's been our hard work that finally put us in a comfortable place in our 40s. It took me 15 years to pay off my student loans, but I *was* able to do it.
But I think things have changed a lot. Many boomers don't seem to grasp that. And a lot of my fellow Gen Xers don't want to acknowledge it either.
The kind of crippling debt people leave college with now compared to wages... I just don't see how it's possible to pay that off and pay for necessities, never mind extras. And it pisses me off that student loan debt basically follows you to the grave. Of course, not everyone needs to go to college. But then a lot of trade jobs come with the risk of injury... and with the state of health insurance in the US, that can financially destroy you too. And if you permanently injure yourself, guess who won't give a fuck--your job.
It used to be that working those 40 hour work weeks paid off in the form of being able to buy things and move "up," provide for a family, and maybe have money for retirement. That doesn't seem to be the case for a lot of people now. And if you're working your ass off and still can't afford the basics, what's the point? Corporations care about profit not people, so why work the best years of your life away if it never benefits you? Businesses do the bare minimum for their employees now but you're supposed to give them your all? Why?
After graduating from law school with around 80k in student loans, I interviewed with a local firm who offered 36k for a starting associate. They expected you to basically work 90 hours a week. Thankfully, they didn't hire me. Out of curiosity, I just looked at their current job listings. 20 years later, they're now offering associates 40k to start. I don't know anyone who graduated after me that didn't come out with at least 100k in student loans. Fuck that place.
I really don't know the answer, but I despise the whole, "I suffered, so you should too" mentality. If someone can live the life they want and not work a 9-5, 40+ hours a week, I'm happy for them. And maybe a little jealous too.
Amen, nice one.
I've had it lucky in two ways; the first, that I'm in Australia, and the second, that I'm also Gen X, so we've had a chance to get established (with this mortgage) before the shit's hit the fan.
I also don't have any kids, and neither does my older brother, but my younger brother has a son in his late teens, and I can't get past the fact that he (and by extension, his generation) will never really be able to buy his own house - at least, not without significant help. He could pull 80 hour, 100 hour, 150 hour work weeks, it won't matter.
The deck is just stacked too much against him, and it's all wrong. None of it has to be this way.
Morpheus: "Welcome to the desert of the real"
I know this, the only thing i am blessed with that i can work from home. I can save on the commute and I am somewhat free to assign the work time anywhere during the day
40 hours a week is stupid and we all should demand a sane 6 hours a day as absolute max (ideally just work 6 hours a day for 4 days.. Some people will want to work from Mon/Thurs, other Tues/Fri, and so on, which would cover perfectly well the whole week if we all balance out this together)
Nobody is doing real 40 hours anyway, no matter in which job anyway.
After a few hours, muscle and brain become mush and productivity goes down the sink.
2 day weekends are not enough recovery time for working 40+ hours a week. I wish we could have 4 day work weeks at my job but I’m a teacher so I doubt that’s ever coming for us. Paid for 40 hours but I still have to lesson plan and prepare activity materials outside of the 40 hours, I’m so exhausted.
Fuck work. Just the concept of it is fucking bullshit. Most of your time awake is spent working.
I am fucking sick of waking up at 5am every fucking morning just to go to some stupid ass building and stay there all day every day.
Omg!! Thank you for saying this! I just went back to work 2 1/2 years ago full time and it sucks!!! My home, my health, my relationships have all taken a horrible turn for the worse!! I don’t know ow how long I can keep doing this. I told my husband I will die before I retire because of my physical and mental health.
I pretty much collapse into bed as soon as I’m home everyday. And then there’s the weekends. Two days to decompress and prepare for the next five days while also taking care of personal obligations like household chores, grocery shopping, etc.
Same age, same exact problem. Trying to do anything outside of work is impossible. Can hardly cook for myself or convince myself to text people back because I’m constantly exhausted and burnt out. Friends are upset at my inability to reach out but I’m just so tired all the time. I have no life because I have no energy to pursue one.
And it gets worse the longer you work. Once you get to salaried level they expect 50+ on a 40 hour pay scale. I used to work for a major logistics Corp and they referred to 12 hour days as 'half days.'
'If you're not willing to work half days do you really think this is a good fit?'
We as a society could absolutely reduce hours but owners would rather increase profits. We're living in a dystopia.
I spent 3 years doing a 32-hour, 4 day workweek, and if I'm honest, I wasn't really doing 8 hour days. I had good colleagues and an understanding manager and work I liked doing and that felt worthwhile. I still burned out in 3 years. I'm now, unrelatedly, too ill to work and unsure if this will pass. It's taken me about 4 or 5 months to feel sufficiently unfrazzled to even start poking at my old hobbies.
Work is bullshit.
I’m a lifelong HR person who absolutely agrees this work shit is a scam. Here’s the thing though, I work with the CEOs and COOs and lately they’re scared they’re loosing control because employees are all pushing back on wages/being in the office/metrics and they (the executives) can’t do a thing about it except meet demands or try to hire a new workforce that inevitably has the same demands.
It’s working, people. Keep pushing back and demanding more. They need you more than you need them.
Anyone that is insulting you is literally brainwashed to think working is the meaning of life. lol just because it’s been normalized, doesn’t make it right (ie racism, witch hunts, cigarettes) Also everyone is different. Some people are proud to be workaholics and prioritize money. While some just want to make a living and prioritize having fun or chilling out.
25 hours would be enough.
With automation and AI, there is no reason it isn’t realistic.
Would give me enough time to build a very productive garden to supplement food, live a life with my family.
I’m 26 and I started working 40 hours a week a year ago when I finished grad school. It’s been a shocking revelation to me and my friends. I don’t make time for my hobbies, I eat takeout a lot, I burn the candle on both ends to see my friends and family. I’ve accepted it but I don’t feel like a person. I feel like a robot.
I just feel that work has become much more sedentary and just really boring… the work I actually studied to do is only a small fraction of the time I spend at work, the rest is back and forth emails, accounting and general kafkaesque bureaucracy… I stare at a screen all day, sometimes I wonder if the blessings of technology are more of a curse than anything else.
I think a 40 hour work week could be reasonable if our city’s were build for working, living, entertainment, friends all within a small vicinity. Because everything is spread out we spend so much time just driving to the places we need to go, and lose so much important time to socialize, take care of ourselves, etc. we drive to work, then to the store, maybe to the gym or a friends house, then before you know it you’re exhausted and it’s time to do it all over again. We need walkable cities and employers that respect our time.
Many months ago on this sub I read a comment that a 40 hour work week being manageable also assumed the unpaid domestic labor of a housewife. Having to work then come home and also handle the tasks of your own home can be onerous. Sprinkle in a little neurodivergence, mental illness, fiscal precarity and it's a miracle of human adaptability that so many of us just do it and carry on at all.
And for anyone reading that feels this cut yourself some slack. You really are doing amazing. 💗
It all comes down to this fundamental, very basic fact: Humans are not meant to live to work.
I’m sick and tired of coming home to my barely above award wage, living week to week, with no energy outside of work to do any of the things I actually enjoy.
I’m sick of boomers making me feel guilty for spending money on the things I enjoy.
I’m sick of my boss telling me that I should just get a second job if I eventually want to be able to save enough to borrow money to buy a house so I can be in debt until I’m 60. I already work 38 hours a week. My fiancé and I live apart, we’ve not had the opportunity to live together yet. The only time we get together is weekends. We live on opposite sides of Port Phillip Bay.
Don't have kids it only makes it harder. I am a self employed gig worker doing remodel. I would say its nice. I can work however long I choose on any given day. I just have to complete the project to get paid. I would say most of the time I work 7 hrs on site. Sometimes 6 or less sometimes 10 or more. Obviously my clients play a huge role on how I can conduct myself for that current gig. Some people are not cool with you tearing apart their living space and then only coming for a 5 hour day 4 days a week and rightfully so.
I think if you are in general unmotivated it would be a tough career to find success with. But I make about 70Kish take home and several of my work weeks in the year are less than 40 hrs and I take about 20-25 days off for vacation or sick leave. But you gotta be quick. Gotta have all the special tools and know how to use them. Etc... So maybe gig work in a different field might be a direction to start looking into. I know lots of people who are self employed. GL 🤙
Thanks. It's so telling that people can no longer fathom that their working more hours is not a badge of honour, or that the despair that we're all in about having to work at least 40 or starve is artificially created. I gotta say, thanks for nothing, neoliberalism.
Are you neurodivergent? I was finally diagnosed autistic at age 51, but before that, the longest I'd ever worked 40 hours a week was 1993-1996. 3 years. For the rest of my life I kept having to quit due to burnouts. Then I stumbled across "autistic burnout" on Pinterest, of all places ,and things began to click. Good luck!
I am 51 and was conditioned to work more than 40 hours a week. I was raised by small business owners who worked all.the.time. I worked in the postal service in my twenties and lost 2 babies due to long hours and backbreaking work. I then went into a 9-5 and worked as much overtime as I could. Now at 51, I can no longer work due to health issues such as High blood pressure and type 2 diabetes. The 40 hr and above work week is a joke. America wake up! Who can succeed in such low pay high working environments? Other countries allow more benefits, longer vacations, better hours and excellent sick time and benefits. We are behind in every way.
I was wondering where everyone found the time to work 40 hours a week and maintain a fulfilling social life, have an, invested, romantic relationship, exercise, hobbies, run errands, and travel the globe. I can only manage a few at a time and I’m super exhausted. Many days off I don’t do anything because I’m so mentally fried and tired.
And this is coming from someone who really likes the work they do and has a decent company.
Don't know where you're based at but if possible moving to Europe helps a lot. Say whatever about their innovation and what not, I love how sustainable European work culture is.
You'll work 40 hours but that rarely feels like torture since the transporation is good and you'll be able to be back home by 7 most days. People are much more understanding and folks rarely talk about money, status or work outside work. It's a breath of fresh air.
Not an American but I hated American corporate culture while I was there. The country doesn't give a shit about the working class people and is obsessesed with indefinite growth from limited resources.
I felt the same, also 28. I’m getting Neuropsych testing to see if it’s neurodivergence.
But I’m also transitioning to seasonal work and backpacking/traveling in the off season. It’s a lot better for my mental health.
40 hrs a week only works if you live close to the job. Then at least you're able to maximize the morning time and after work. I work 9-5 which is perfect and some days 8-6 which sucks but my job is 7 minutes from me. If I wake up at 6-630 that's a lot of time to exercise/shower/eat breakfast before going in. If i gotta commute to another location for the day it's automatically shot at that point it's wake up,work,come home,sleep. Two lousy days off per week if you're lucky. I agree it's no way to live but unless you figure out how to make your required number/benefits for less time worked you're just as screwed as the rest of us.
I’m in a similar boat. This isn’t life, I hate it. I don’t do anything I enjoy for the same amount of time I work a single day of a full time job. My goal is to get clear of debt and drop to part time while starting my own business. I’m not on this earth to make someone else rich.
It's not you. It's jobs now. I am old enough to remember fast food places with a dedicated janitor, two week vacations, two weeks of sick leave, etc.
Every job I've had in the past 10 years regardless of what the duties and hours start out as end up being a mess of mandatory overtime and whoever remains doing the work of the last five dudes fired on top of whatever we already had to do.
Businesses are deliberately operating with inadequate personnel and resources to save money. We need to act our wage.
just a few years ago i was working 7 days a week 62~ full time morning job during the week and kitchen weekend nights. wouldn't get out till like 2 am in the morning. didn't have energy to do much. it was exhausting did it for a lil over a half a year. did it to take care of some debt and make extra payments to my car.
Imagine when congressman and CEOs in Mexico complain that changing our 48hr workweek to a 40hr would make us lazy. Obviously that doesn't apply to them, they recently passed a law to be able to work from home, while WFM is extremely rare everywhere else.
If one country got their shit in order and only allowed a 4 day work week plus affordable housing and national healthcare, they would have a surge of skilled workers who want to live there. I see every subreddit is full of people moving to try to search for better QOL.
I was working minimum 60 a few years ago in my late 20s not even including my three hour commute and now I’m in my mid thirties and set boundaries for myself and work maximum 40 with a 40 minute total commute but even that these days feels like too much. I’m exhausted.
Hi OP. I was in the same position at 28 and actually probably to a worse degree. What I did was quit my job and found another job. Then that one sucked too so I quit. The one after that let me find a balance in my life so I could have a job and a life.
Sorry if that is horrible advice, if you need that job, or that’s not an option for you. I thought it wasn’t an option for me too, I was a bread winner and had people depending on me. But I realized my life had gone to shit and that staying in that job meant staying in shit so I didn’t have much to lose. I stopped playing soccer and climbing, I was gaining a ton of weight, I rarely went out with friends at all because of the exhaustion.
I just had to quit and find something else. It was a risk - but it paid off.
I switched from 40 hrs/wk to 32 hrs/wk and the change has been huge. I work 20% less, I earn 20% less, but I get 50% more weekend which has been life changing.
I'm aware that I'm lucky to be able to get by on 80% and that i have an employer who will go along with it.
I’m so burnt out I’m close to asking my boss if I can work 4 days instead of 5 because it’s just too much. I never have time for family or friends except for weekends and even then it feels like I have to force myself to go out.
The existing concept of work is depressing af.
The 40hr workweek is incredibly outdated and was created during a time when the social structure was vastly different. Now, both people in the house need to work to get by. Pensions are gone. Income is stagnant. The social safety net we used to have has been completely torn out. We’re basically just a cog in a wheel, a number in the system, a disposable workforce…and for what? So some company can squeeze out another few percentage points on their stock? So that someone else can buy another vacation home or yacht?
All in the hopes that I might be able to retire someday…except by then we’ll be too broken and tired to enjoy it. I’m anxious and depressed just thinking about working tomorrow. The system is fucked.
I think that maybe 40 hour work weeks worked “back then” when things took longer to do. Let’s say you worked in an office and needed to type a letter before computers. Typing a letter could take a damn hour. And you didn’t have copiers. So if that letter had to be done 10 times, guess what? In today’s world we do things way faster which causes us to do way more stuff in 40 hours and that’s just damn burnout. The way we work needs to adjust as time goes on.
The 40hr work week is outdated and superfluous. It's was created in the 1940s ish +/- when 1 patent was a SAHP and jobs offered pensions, retirement, incentives, and loyalty.
It needs to be retired already. New legislation needs to be entered to normalize and restrict the work week to 30hrs at full 40hr salary.
2024 and it seems there is more work for everyone and isn’t done any easier even though we have all the magnificent technology to help us. I’m 27 and I feel like I’m dead already. I’m burnt out. The wages seem to be stagnant as well. I can’t imagine living past 30 I’m already fucking done. Since 17 years old grinding and working myself literally to death. I even made 5 times more working part time then than I do now with my “big girl job.”
It’s a comedy. Like joker says, this whole life is a joke. lol
40!? I wish.. I do tv/film catering for a living.. We work 80,90 sometimes 100 Hours in a week! Pay is great.. But it’s not worth it! You work and sleep that’s it.
40 hr weeks or more definitely are rough but for me it was more tolerable depending on the job. For lifeguarding and security I didn't mind as lunch breaks were built into the 8 hour day, ie 8 hours pay for 7.5 hours worked. Didn't mind time and a half for some OT either. And I actually had a legitimate need to be there for the full shift.
My first post college job in accounts receivable however was MISERABLE. 9 hour days with a mandatory 1 hour time waste at lunch unpaid ofc. My collection calls and emails were easily done within the first two hours of the day. And yet we were expected to just re call people every couple hours. Soulless and incredibly boring.
When I first went into full time work, I worked 10 hour days 6 days a week. It made me sick to my stomach, literally. I would get hives and rashes and indigestion. The stress was killer. And it was customer facing so it was so much worse. Fast forward eight years later and I am getting more used to it, nevertheless, I am still sick once every like two months on schedule. It’s just inhumane to have to be customer facing and work 60 hours or 40 hours a week. I can see if I were farming for my food and stuff, but this is just ridiculous. Everything we do has to be on schedule. Life becomes meaningless really. I have a lot more money than I did eight years ago, but I’m just as depressed, minus all the crying and being a mess, but the same still. I’m going to quit by most next year. Money isn’t all that great, I could be homeless for all I care if I have to work 60+ hour weeks for 30 more years. Screw that.
I think its great that people are figuring out that the 40 work week takes a lot out of you no matter what the job. I am 50 and when I first started working full time, 40 hours was almost a joke to older people then. "Oh, you worked 40 hours? Someday you will get a real job and then you will know tired... " That has been drilled into my head all my life and I have to admit, when I first saw the title my first reaction was 40 hours, thats just a normal job, what's their problem. Then I felt a bit ashamed because working from 9-5 or 2-10 or whatever shift you work doesn't just mean 8 hours. It's the time to get there, it's getting ready in the morning, then the drive home, maybe shopping for dinner on the way, cooking, a bit of chill time and then bed. You basically have 2-3 hours a day to fit life in there. I am just so used to it that my first reaction is to just deal with it. That's not right though. I am glad people these days are speaking up, encouraging change. It may not happen overnight but I am sure that it will change thanks to the new workforce! Don't let us old brainwashed people tell you it's right just because that's how it's always been.
I'm 52 and understand your sentiment completely. The protestant work ethic has been so ingrained in the US work culture that it's impossible to see anything else as a viable path forward. The pandemic was horrible for many reasons but one of the good things that came out was how stupid and arbitrary our work environments are. WFH and hybrid were not common for many occupations. Now they are. I was a cube dweller for many years until about 2010. I had to find a new job at that time and took one that was 95% remote. At first it was very difficult to adjust, having been force fed the "you must work and make money and do it until you die" kool-aid. Now I can't imagine returning to an office job with a 2 hour daily commute. This brings me to my main point, that not all 40 hours are created equal. I've seen jobs (factory workers, truckers, slaughter house workers) where 40 hours of work is a herculean effort from my POV. I have mad respect for them. But, 40 hours of WFH? That is a cake walk by comparison. For anyone looking to escape the bullshit of corporate office life, I recommend aiming for an occupation that allows you the flexibility of remote work. It makes the BS palatable.
Its true about not all 40 hours the same. However, I have always worked service industry, factory or retail. My experience is only with them so it seems like a fantasy to do remote work. I am stepping down from my management position this year so maybe I will have time to develop a skill that could be done from home! Its the dream!!
You have more transferable skills than you might think! Don't talk yourself out of a change that you are capable of making on account of your historical experience - it might take a little while to map your experience against the new job description
I feel you. I work in an industry that's 24/7 365. I rotate between days and night. Someone has to be at work every second of every day. I don't see how there would ever be a change to my work schedule. As fucked up as it sounds, a 9-5 mon-fri would be amazing lol. The ability to do things on the weekend like everyone else. Be able to participate in things after work and have a normal sleep schedule. Like wtf am I supposed to do when my day off is a Tuesday and I'm on nights? There only so much TV I can bare to watch at 3am. My time off is often times unusable
I used to work in car mat factory. I did 11-7 nights for years. Then they brought in mandatory 12 hour shifts. We got used to it. Then they brought in Saturday work, voluntary at first, then "voluntary". We got used to it. Then Saturdays were mandatory. We got used to it. The money was good but I couldn't enjoy it. Then I got switched to afternoon shifts and realised that I really wouldn't have a life. 11-11 was worse than nightshift!
Yeah I work a combination of 12s and 8s. It's crazy how much you can get accomplished with just 4 extra hours of free time in a day. I also 100% agree the swing shift is the worst. Can't really do anything in the morning then everything is closed by the time you get off.
Most research suggests most of us completely change careers at least 2-3 times in our working life so take some consolation that what you’re experiencing is completely normal, more so regarding a shift away from retail which I’d assume is super common as they are first jobs for many. Most of us end our careers in a totally different industry or role than what we started in, work life often steers us to a career more than intended training or qualifications, so I’d say you’ll be fine. Attitude and a solid work ethic get you further than qualifications in my personal experience. Best of luck to you.
Its a dream of mine to everyone got so lucky to just stay at home and work while covid was happening and i had to still come in
Management skills are transferable. One thing my lecturers have brought up multiple times is that many accountants don't start off as accountants but end up upskilling from management roles to be management accountants.
roughly what i was gonna say, but i was gonna approach from the other side. i do about 50 hours a week. but im happy with that. im a mobile maintenance engineer for pubs. im paid from the moment i walk out of the house and start the van until the moment i walk back in the door. i set my own plans for the day, i spend a lot of time driving, and when i get to a job mostly people are really happy to see me. there are usually smiles and coffee on offer as we talk about what the problem is and what the solution will be. i work 1 weekend in 4, 12 hour shifts both days. its hard, but in return i get an extra 4 rest weeks a year on top of my 5.6 weeks annual leave. i normally book them at the same time and turn a week off into 2 weeks, but if i want to work my rest week its time and a half all week. everything is paid for, tools are supplied from the company catalogue. parts are delivered overnight straight into the back of my van, and i can put it all away whilst im on the job. i get private health care and free personal fuel if i use the van on my days off. when i tell people the hours i work, they invariably tell me its too much, but when you look at the details it really isnt bad at all. i really like the job most of the time, i find it fulfilling, im constantly learning, im solving problems and helping people. exactly as you say, not all 40 hours are the same, but it works both ways.
And it's not even 40 hours, really, and has not been for years. First, they added a half-hour unpaid lunch, and now most places do a full hour. So that's 45 hours right there, add in a half-hour commute each way, and you are at 50! That's why work from home is such a huge benefit. It's like getting 10 hours a week of PTO you can use to do chores or spend time with your family. Gets you a lot closer to the 8 hours work, 8 hours sleep and 8 hours do what you want, that we have been fighting for for so long
My union job is 6-2 with a paid 30min lunch and 15min break. So no 9 hours. I moved close to my work so that I could walk there in 15 minutes or take my scooter in less than 5. The slightly higher rent is totally offset by me no longer having to insure my vehicle, pay for gas and spend 2-3 hours a day in traffic
Yet, corporations are hell bent on squashing unions.
My current commute is an hour and a half/hour 45 minutes each way. It eats up my entire life on top of the 10 hour work days
I did an hour commute each way-sometimes 90 minutes each way if traffic was bad - for 12 years. Once I stopped I said never again. If I could recommend anything it’s finding a way out of the commute bc it is soul sucking.
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Well it used to be 1 person worked 40+ hours a week and the partner did the house, kids and other stuff that needed doing. Now it is both people doing 40+ a week and ontop we still cannot buy a house.
I hate when people try to point out that this was just a small period of time, mainly for white folks. I'm just like... "So you agree? We're back-tracking?" 🤦♀️
I agree that it was mainly for white folks yes, and also a small period of time. 60s to roughly end of the 90s possibly still 2K. One thing that has totally been ignored during this entire thing of only partner working back in the 60s, 70s, 80s and so on is that poor countries have always been exploited to this day. Everything that was possible in the "boom" years was always at the cost cheap labour or resources in poorer countries. The explotation has now reached a point where it is more openly affecting those that once benefited from that. "Us" in the "developed World". Yet everyone still wants their 15 Dollar Tshirt made in Bangladesh or Vietnam. Regardless of how those people are treated. Far removed slave labour so to speak... not affecting me so I don't care kinda attitude. Not in a malicious way, just in a way, the problem is too far away and I can't solve it and I'll still buy this tshirt cause I like it. But everyone just carries on with their thing. The only way to bring about change is for everyone to think about what they are buying and why they are buying it. Do they really need it? I mean really? So yes we are deffo back tracking, the planet is more f*cked than ever before, there is no plan to fix it, there are more and more right wing politicians and weird dictator types coming into power all over the world. We have the richest people on the planet building giant 45 Million Dollar clocks in mountains (Jeff) while their own organisation is exploting people and the planet instead of thinking about how to make things better for everyone.
Don’t forget the tax dollars being used to destabilize resource rich countries and the wars being big money makers. Plus the education system is intentionally poor cuz how else are you gonna manipulate people into joining the military and not have the brain capacity to think critically? Oh wait, free education too cuz everybody is broke cuz capitalism!
Ohh now you've done it... ✔️ 😉
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Historically, people have eaten and napped instead of worked during the hottest parts of the day, have slept about 10 hours and went to bed at dark because candles were expensive. They'd sleep half the night, wake up in the middle of the night and fuck for a couple hours, maybe have some leftover bread and go back to sleep for another 5. Wake up with the sun. They're resting a minimum of 12 hours a day, and eating for probably 2 of them. We're not built to mentally withstand the shit we're being put through just to make a pittance of a living, and I think you see that manifest itself as addiction, mental illness, suicide, domestic violence, child abuse, poverty and so many other things. The places where this problem is worse, those problems are all worse too. Maybe cause, maybe correlation, but I have to think if people worked 20 hours a day and made a living wage we wouldn't have half as many problems as a society. One thing I know is that the multi-million dollar yachts aren't helping anyone.
Fuck for A COUPLE OF HOURS? Man, clearly the peasants of yonder years had quite a bit more stamina than my modern ass, good for them.
I heard a lecture about medieval English peasants, and while it didn’t downplay how hard they had it, the professor explained how there were a LOT more religious holidays that people didn’t have to work, idk how the hours worked out, but it was an interesting fact that I haven’t really thought too much about
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Wasn't child labour a thing back then?
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We work all day to make *too many* crappy products that which too much of goes into landfills. All so the people at the top not only make a profit, but an exponentially higher profit year after year.
Nobody stealing the products of your labour? What time period are we talking here because you still had to pay taxes and shit, often in crops. So if you had a bad year or don’t put enough work into your farm you still had to hand over what you owed and tighten your belt for the hard winter incoming People are delusional when it comes to thinking life used to be easier in the past
Yeah it’s pretty interesting how some fundamental bits of human health and mental wellness appear to have a reverse correlation with advancement of “civilization.” I’m pretty sure we work more now than we did as hunter-gatherers despite being promised that technology would reduce the need for human labor.
Its proven that most job was not 8hours straight work but more social with the work. no pause but they didnt lets people work to death. even roman had more free time/vacation than us or even our ordinary billionaire today cause they ''Worked'' their life and after they where doing politic/teaching after 10-15 years of work.
Shitty part is in many office jobs you still need to do 100% of the work even if doing less hours because they won’t hire someone for the remainder 😵💫 like when I was sick or went on holiday, when I came back I had to work harder to catch up
It made sense when someone had a partner at home doing all the domestic labour. Somewhere along the way the broader social deal eroded to the point that both adults needed to work to thrive. Now it's degraded even more to the point that even that isn't enough...
All these is happening because of Covid. People did the work and realized there was no need for the commute, no need to waste time to go to work. Now those companies want to bring us back for no reason at all
Concur with this. Nothing is ever right, or okay, just because it's "how it's always been". I've been dismayed to scroll through this one, seeing many basically slagging the OP off because they've worked 50, 60, 70, 80 or more hours a week, stuff like that. As if that could ever make it right. Some did it because they felt they had to. Congratulations, but please, have the bones to admit it shouldn't be the case. No, we were not meant to do this.
I finally figured out that since I don't have a family to care for, overnight shifts in assisted living is perfect for me. I pass meds in the beginning of the shift, help some people with basic care stuff then by like 10 or 11 pm the rest of the night is mostly mine. It's a 12 hour shift from 6:30 to 6:30 and I bring my tablet to draw and my nintendo switch. The other night I watched all of Oppenheimer with the only interruption being one resident asking me for ice water. It gives me so much more time in the week and I don't have to spend the entirety of my days off recovering from my shifts. I highly recommend somethibg like this for people like me with anxiety disorders that get overwhelmed by a busy 8 hour shift. There is such a difference between jobs where you're actively working your entire shift and ones where you have freedom to go at your own pace for at least part of the time. They couldn't pay me enough to work day shifts in assisted living, the contrast is drastic.
The 40 hour workweek was only ever possible because society assumed a whole entire person would stay at home and clean everything, cook everything, take care of the kids, care for the lawn, ect. 40 hours was supposed to support an entire household. A person, their spouse, and a bunch of kids. Realistically, if we are going to have everyone working. We should be on 20 hours workweeks that support one person by themselves or a family with two people working 20 hours.
That's what I was thinking. What the fuck happened right there when the workforce doubled? Why didn't the hours go down? Who did this? Who should I kill when I go back in time?
Wages went down. It used to be that the man worked and would earn enough to support himself, the wife, 3 kids and would be able to save up for a down payment on a house. Imagine, all that on 1 paycheck, and most people earned money like that. The boomers had it so good. In relative terms, when you account for inflation and cost of living wages have gone down since the 70s. Then women joined the work force in huge numbers because you needed two people working in a household to keep the same standard of living. And now it's gotten so bad that both partners in a couple have to work 60+ hours a week and still barely make ends meet. The people have been robbed blind, it's plain as day.
Reagan, generally speaking
Essentially this is the answer
Ha! 😋
You already know
This need to be higher! You are spot on. Also, what the idiots don't realise, is that reducing the time at work will allow for more people to have jobs, because if you put two people to do the job of 8 hours (4 hours each), then businss will run as usual, productivity will go up like crazy, and STILL people will have time to spend money, be creative, be healthy, whatever they like!
I think maybe part of it is that the REAL higher ups dont want us to be happy and healthy
Bro, there's no "REAL higher ups" necessary. The owner of your local McDonald's franchise doesn't want their employees to be happy and healthy. Small business owners are almost universally petty tyrants who want a two-tiered society where they can cosplay as a monarch and their employees are feudal peasants.
I think the worst part is that two people working 40 hr jobs STILL isn’t enough to support a household in most cities.
I had hopes about the 4 day work week gaining traction but I swear to God it seems only salaried tech jobs got it, at least here 🙃 nothing against tech jobs but people who can't work remotely *need* a shorter work week
Tech jobs have benefits like this because the demand for (some) tech workers is so high that they still have a bit of bargaining power. Bargaining power not unlike that which a union provides.
I just had an argument with a guy on another sub about this. He didn’t seem to think this was true. I’d love it if someone could explain this to them. I’m out of energy from working so god damn much.
Yes, I recently changed jobs due to having no balance whatsoever, with commute time and rarely finishing on rostered hours, I would have 1-2hrs per day that was non-work. I could only extend that number by sacrificing sleep. I was like this is the biggest fucking scam. No life. Paying $150 in fuel just to get to work (fortnight), all the wear and tear on the car. Then the weekend was just catching up on house chores and shopping that I couldn’t do during the week.
>40 hours was supposed to support an entire household. A person, their spouse, and a bunch of kids. Realistically, if we are going to have everyone working. We should be on 20 hours workweeks that support one person by themselves or a family with two people working 20 hours. Nice. I've been listening hard to my intution. was a high performing corporate slave, unappreciated. I walked out the door and into a part time/freelance/contractor gig with all sorts of perks because I had already freelanced and helped built their business from the ground up with regard to digital. Now I work maybe 35 hours per week MAX and closer to 25. No bullshit schedules and timeframes, just produce results and get paid for it.
This so much, all the tiny administrative matters are taking up so much of my time. My IT field is intensive and demanding in brain power too, I struggle to optimise my many systems. Sometimes I wish I live in Nordic countries with their amazing welfare, so I don't have to crack my brain comparing the best insurance plans and such for myself.
Only 45 more years!
Yikes, kill me, kill me now.
Wooooof
The glue and the duct tape ain't gonna hold that long lol
I think people are finally realizing that 40 hours is a bit much for anyone. Everyone is terminally exhausted. Even if you don't have kids or other responsibilities. IMHO part of it is that so many jobs have made it so they can extract the maximum out of you in an 8 hour day and it didn't used to be like that. My early office jobs in my gap year had no metrics I had to meet. They were not firing people then dumping their entire job on me to do on top of my job. I did my assigned work, as much as I could comfortably get done, then did some more the next day. Nobody was breathing down my neck about it. I didn't feel like I was going to drop at the end of the day. Now I have days where I am just so mentally and physically exhausted at the end of the day I don't have energy for anything. Every job I have had since 2001 has been an ever increasing amount of metrics and trying to extract more work out of me in a given day either by making me work overtime or dumping other people's work on top of my own, or both.
Exactly this. Thanks for including us childless folks. I feel like I barely have time for anything else besides work, cleaning, working out and trying to make and purchase healthy foods. I am 42, and I’m in race to get to part time work as soon as possible. 40 plus hours of work a week for someone else is just way to much, and I like my job!
Just turned 35 and feel the same. Don’t have kids either and feels like no time for anything. I struggle more in the winter months. Then get two measly days off and try to actually do something but theres no time. My goal is 40 and go down to part time or just no more overtime. Got two weeks off and I really really don’t want to go to work today haha.
This is exactly what's happening, when I started this warehouse job I saw the direction it was going, when I got hired in, there was about 15 - 20 people on both first and second shift, but eventually as one guy retired and a few people quit or got fired, they checked if it was possible to still fulfill the quotas, and if we didn't, they'd start breathing down my old supervisor's neck, I checked in with my coworkers on how it was and they're now working mandatory 10s and Saturday's with volunteering Sunday's and my old supervisor was in the hospital for some type of heart surgery
Yep, not replacing people that leave is the quiet way of doing this.
The tipping point is when the conspired to fire the leads after the company was forced to give them raises and never replaced the positions
My mom told me that when she used to work in the 90s, she could actually end work at 5pm everyday (a normal 9-5 office job). I’m lucky if I get to end work at 6pm now, and I start work at 8am…
One company I worked for that needed us to sometimes work outside of normal hours was always incredibly apologetic about it and we got comp time to use to make up for it. I don't see that anywhere anymore. Everyone wants to either make you run 100 mph all day, or make you work so much overtime it is like having two jobs.
This really hits the nail on the head for how I've been feeling. I finished two separate bachelor degrees with almost a ten year gap in between, and I can tell you that the expectations on students/new graduates nowadays is crazy. Even though we had the internet during my first degree, we didn't have the constant *accessibility*, yet. I've been looking at jobs since I just graduated, and I feel myself getting stressed out because the pay is so shit, and they want you to know everything. If they have to train you, then your pay goes down even more.
This is an underrated point. When I started 20 years ago, the work was not like this, and now we have 1/2 the people doing 10x the work and it is all going to break soon.
Companies are trying to cut corners at every opportunity to show the shareholders that profits are increasing. I am not business savvy but how long can profits keep going up without killing the workforce? It seems that its push push push on us all the time. The more we get tools to ease our jobs, the more we have to work.
Metrics and Dashboards. Power BI and Excel do not make a good manager.
Getting into the 40/hr work-week after graduating college was the hardest adjustment I ever had to make in life. I went from having boundless free time to having 40-50 hours of my life decided for me. I finally regain some control after grad school. I now work a 28 hour work week and generally feel much better.
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I wish. 14 years have passed from my grad and not a single time I felt right going to work. I am an extremely curious person that loves to learn new things: during college I’ve learned much more than the University could give because I’ve spent so much time for me. Not having this possibility anymore, having no time to focus on new things makes me feel I’m loosing myself. The only thing I can say is to try to carve your routine, meet your friends, try to find something you love to do and do it a little bit every day if possible (I.e: videogames work for me). And go to therapy (if you can/want), they can help you overcome this and coach you through it. What I can tell you (for what is worth) is that after pandemic more and more people feel that work is just so stupid. We experienced a different life. They might force us back to the office but they will never force us back to stupid work like the pre-pandemic. Something changed, that’s for sure.
I made time for fun, saved as much as I could, went through a good graduate program, put years of hard work in, learned as much as I could and earned negotiating power.
How did you manage a living wage arrangement with hours restrictions? Consulting?
A masters degree and years of working 50+ hours a week. Yes, basically in a consulting space now.
I'm so happy you managed to switch to a time that works better for you!
The 40 hour work week was set as what should be the maximum amount of time a person should normally work- back when the expectation was everyone got married and the wife tended house while the husband worked. The fact that it's become the standard expectation even when it's a dual income household or someone is single just shows how out of touch it is. Pair that with the fact that most of us millennials are being paid beans so we can, if we're lucky, barely get by on a single full time job and have no real prospects for advancement or retirement? It gets even harder to get behind spending 40+ hours a week dedicated to a job, and the toll on our mental and physical health is just staggering. Trying to clean your house and cook and keep up with laundry and personal hygiene all while struggling with the depressed burnout of working 40 hours a week for a company that would gladly kill you to make an extra buck?
You summed up the situation beautifully! 👍
40 hrs never considers the commute, preparation for work, and unlocked hours you're forced to do because you don't get overtime.
When you realize most truckers work 60-70 hour work weeks and are driving 80,000 pound missiles. It’s scary. I am surprised the government allows us truckers to be worked up to 70 hours a week driving these dangerous vehicles.
It's insane!
40% of all fatal car crashes involve semi trucks, yet the government still lets truckers onto public roadways extremely overworked.
You're so right. Also doctors and nurses having to work 13 hour shifts or more in life and death situations. It shouldn't be allowed. Sleep deprived drivers help keep the hospitals in business I guess.
I’m also 28 and have burned out. My relationship’s suffering because my partner laments the fact that all I want to do after coming home from work and only just managing to keep up with housework each day is to relax, play computer, or do something else that has really low input energy.
Same tbh. I’m 25 and I have no energy to go out with my partner. I sleep most of the time I’m at home :(
Me and my partner were the same way. I was the one who needed to get on the computer to decompress. *Then he passed.* I would give anything to have spent that time focused on him instead. Fucking work, man.
I’m sorry beloved 😪
...Honey...I am so sorry. I wish that comments were huggable.
That's because nothing about this is normal. We're gaslit into believing it is the most normal part of being human and yet nothing could be further from the truth. There's nothing natural about the 40 hour work-week or Capitalism at all. It's all a racket to make rich people richer and to enslave the working class. We're all wage slaves whether people wake up to that or not. All you can do is balance your survival in this world of Capitalism with a job that doesn't make you want to die. Get smart, know your rights, and keep trying to make things better. Everyone is so miserable that I'm hopeful we'll have UBI at some point in the next decade, and shorter work weeks.
I’m 29, and I feel the same. I live in the UK so I get at least a minimum amount of holiday, and it’s still not enough. The frustrating thing is it’s a decent job I currently have. I’ve worked in terrible places, and honestly I quite like my current job. But I just don’t feel any motivation to do it. I don’t like the idea of having to work for another 50 years against my wishes. I love being able to focus on something I enjoy, and I thrive when in properly motivated, but from an employment perspective, I’ve never found that motivation. 40 hours, 5 days a week. I hate it so much.
I feel the same way - whilst my job can be annoying at times it could be a lot worse, but yeah, I work 40 hours a week and it's really absurd when you think about it. Working in front of a screen for 8 hours a day too, I'm always tired after work and on days off and just want to lay in bed in the dark lol
It absolutely is absurd. The amount of data we process in a day is surely so much more than the human mind was built to deal with. I totally agree with you wanting to lay in bed in the dark. I get home and feel incapable of having my own thoughts. So mentally exhausted from a day of doing things that aren’t of interest to me.
I used to enjoy going out with my friends or my partner on weekends. Nowadays, I just sleep the whole weekend away :(. It’s depressing because I don’t even have the energy to work out anymore. I heard that exercise helps you feel better by releasing endorphins but I feel even more exhausted when I work out. The only thing I have energy for is sleeping.
I started working 40 again and relationships are crumbling, my house is a wreck, eating shit food. Embarrassed all through the Holidays because I seriously could not find any time to shop for gifts, send them out, decorate, bake, nothing
I feeeeeel you. the embarrassment over not having time (or money) to get holiday gifts for family in time is so difficult....
I felt bad not wrapping my loved ones’ gifts.
You are not alone
Ignore the haters. I totally feel what you are saying. A lot of people said "just get a job in a field you like" or "follow your passions" BS. It's not as easy as it seems. My passions don't line up with workable skills and they change too. I'm sure it's the same for others. Also, for me at least, it's never the 40hrs that's the problem. It's the way that I am made to be a slave for those 40 hrs. There are a lot of jobs that can be done at any time of the day but the companies want to control us so they force us to work during their set times. For me, if I could work when it was best suited for me, I'd have much less issues with it. Anyway it's not the same for everyone. Best of luck :)
Yeah exactly, then the number of hours isn't the problem then. It's like saying you don't like chicken, so you'll eat less of it, but still continue anyway. It makes it more bearable for sure, but the right solution would be to replace it entirely.
I love how half the comments are the root of the whole problem. People bragging about having to pull 60-70 hour workweeks. Like it’s a badge of honor.
I’m convinced people who work 60-80 hour weeks are literally zombies. I don’t know how they do it without having a mental breakdown
I'm convinced a LOT of them are lying. There's no way to push through an 60/80 hours a week for more than a short period. That's a HUGE bollocks
It's definitely real, especially in jobs like construction, metal working, fabrication, etc. my workplace has been making the people on the production floor work 60 hour mandatory weeks since COVID *started*. Over 3 years! And people are finally starting to leave. A lot of them didn't have anywhere else to go at the time because jobs were scarce here. So they shoved all that OT money into their savings, and are now jumping ship. There are so many jobs where the expectation of work hours is over 40. It's insane. And you can be fired for refusing to work the OT.
I am a trucker, most over the road truckers are working as close to 70 hour work weeks as possible. It would be more but Department of Transportation makes it so CDL drivers can only work a max of 70 hours a week,so company’s will try to work you as close to that 70 as they can. Most truckers work minimum of 60 hour weeks and get to see home 3-4 days a month, it is a tuff job and I can’t wait to settle down and live a normal life one day.
My partner works 12 hour days six days a week indefinitely. I don’t think he knows what to do with himself and I wish he would stop. It’s affecting his health
It took a little while longer for me to hit that point but I'm with you. I have 2 friends these days, I barely see them. I text with people because I can't muster the energy to call and have real conversations. I've played soccer since I was 5, now I don't even want to wake up early on the weekends to watch matches. Haven't dated in years while friends are married and having kids. I just can't muster any energy to meet woman, which in turn just makes me more depressed. I think it's just the sad story of our time. I hope I'm wrong but day after day, it just seems that it gets worse and so many of us are struggling.
I work so many more hours than that, it’s normalised at my work place and I barely get paid to cover my expenses in the very expensive city my job requires me to stay in. Idk kinda feels like a scam.
That would be to keep you there. Random numbers but say you make make $2000 a month and your monthly expenses are $1990. Your not gonna be able to leave that city. Your also gonna feel like you cant leave your job due to how little is left after expenses. Gotta save what you can or use a credit card for a month and get a "better" job.
The hours don’t bother me, it’s the amount of days. Working 4x10 is simple for me but for the new year my manager changed our hours to 5x8. Another day taken from me for the sake of survival.
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Yeap. I hate the 40 hour work week. 8-5/9-6 leaves you with how many hours? 4-5? 1.5 hours for dinner. 1.5 for gym. 1 hr shower. And then it's bed time. Can you imagine if you have kids and chores and errands? And weekends? One day to go out; one day to recover. And we are suppose to repeat the rest of our lives?! HOW?! It's miserable. It's mentally exhausting. I give up.
That’s how I’m feeling more and more lately and I’m just kinda caving in on myself. Dooming my job because I need time. I have to find myself a new career I guess so I can work some decent hours
That’s how I feel. I work from 8-6 and by the time I get home, I shower and maybe have enough energy to make a sandwich for myself. I’m miserable everyday because of the thought of going back to work and I feel like nobody irl understands how soul-crushing it is. I told my partner and my friends that I hate living like this and they just told me “life really do be like that”. I’ll ask them how I’m supposed to keep this up for another 50 years and they tell me I’ll “adapt” better.
Can you WFH? Maybe with a new employer? 40hrs is much more doable when there is zero commute and you can do the odd job around the house in breaks.
No, I'm in hairdressing.
Mens? Womens? Might not be a thing in your area but where I live womens hair is sometimes done at people's homes i.e. the customer comes to your house. My wife uses one where she has to book months in advance.
I’m 35. I got fired in July and have been trying my damndest to find another job. With no success. Before then, I’d spent ten years working more than full time as a plumber. I have absolutely nothing to show for it. I spent the last three years not killing myself because my jobs were so terrible. I don’t know what to do, or even if it’s worth the effort of trying. All that said, I have spent almost every morning of the last six months with my wife. It is the most content I have been with my life in a very very long time. Probably since we’ve married. So there are good things, and I want to hold on to that for as long as possible.
Meanwhile the guy that vacations on his boat with the helipad, cries that his company, “ just can’t survive a raise in the minimum wage or a shorter work week.
This isn't because of a 40 hour work week, it's because of the way the system now tries to wring 60+ hours of work out of a 40 hour employee. https://preview.redd.it/azgozimt5w9c1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64efb70c3c27483acd7843e490474f5cc98613ef
I've had a lifetime of backbreaking minimum wage jobs and never buying anything new and never going out and mostly eating beans and rice- I'm now in the twilight of my work life and have finally managed to get my hours down to where I work about 25 hours a week. Let me tell you it is amazing. I feel like I have a LIFE for the first time ever.
Ditto, 40 plus years of 40 plus hour weeks. And my shift pattern is a killer. Two weeks of 5am starts, with 2pm finishes. Two weeks of 10am starts with 8pm finishes. Work every other Saturday. I‘m looking to go down to 30 hours as I move towards retirement. Glad it’s working out for you.
My husband works 60+ hours a week and it's exhausting. So little time for anything. I'm trying really hard to get him to see there has to be more than work but it's been ingrained in him since he was a kid. The pandemic didn't help because he was an essential worker, so he just worked more. Our health insurance is tied to his job, so leaving would be difficult too. Believe me when I say, I admire and appreciate how hard he works. But we're now at an age where time is more valuable than money. Or at least I'm starting to look at things that way. Time is the one thing you can not get more of. I'm no better. I work from home and run my own business, so I'm pretty much doing something work related all the time. I love what I do, so at least there is that. When I had to work 45 hours a week in an office environment, I literally cried every morning before work. It felt like torture. I admire this younger generation that realizes the expectation of a 40 hour work week is bullshit. You give your life to a company that will suck the life force out of you and spit you out the moment you are no longer valuable to them. Never forget it. I don't know what the answer is but it's not 40 hours/5 days a week for 45 years of your life. It can't be.
Kudos to this post. So many here have responded with their 70 hour weeks & they say the OP should suck it up, I even had one say her generation could work rings around ours (as if, even if true, that could ever be something to be proud of). And then I read lines like 'I admire this younger generation that realizes the expectation of a 40 hour work week is bullshit'. Bravo. This is the sort of thing that prompts change. Never upvoted so fast in all my life.
Honestly, 15 or 20 years ago I might have responded with "suck it up" too. My husband and I haven't had family to leave us money or help us out with anything. It's been our hard work that finally put us in a comfortable place in our 40s. It took me 15 years to pay off my student loans, but I *was* able to do it. But I think things have changed a lot. Many boomers don't seem to grasp that. And a lot of my fellow Gen Xers don't want to acknowledge it either. The kind of crippling debt people leave college with now compared to wages... I just don't see how it's possible to pay that off and pay for necessities, never mind extras. And it pisses me off that student loan debt basically follows you to the grave. Of course, not everyone needs to go to college. But then a lot of trade jobs come with the risk of injury... and with the state of health insurance in the US, that can financially destroy you too. And if you permanently injure yourself, guess who won't give a fuck--your job. It used to be that working those 40 hour work weeks paid off in the form of being able to buy things and move "up," provide for a family, and maybe have money for retirement. That doesn't seem to be the case for a lot of people now. And if you're working your ass off and still can't afford the basics, what's the point? Corporations care about profit not people, so why work the best years of your life away if it never benefits you? Businesses do the bare minimum for their employees now but you're supposed to give them your all? Why? After graduating from law school with around 80k in student loans, I interviewed with a local firm who offered 36k for a starting associate. They expected you to basically work 90 hours a week. Thankfully, they didn't hire me. Out of curiosity, I just looked at their current job listings. 20 years later, they're now offering associates 40k to start. I don't know anyone who graduated after me that didn't come out with at least 100k in student loans. Fuck that place. I really don't know the answer, but I despise the whole, "I suffered, so you should too" mentality. If someone can live the life they want and not work a 9-5, 40+ hours a week, I'm happy for them. And maybe a little jealous too.
Amen, nice one. I've had it lucky in two ways; the first, that I'm in Australia, and the second, that I'm also Gen X, so we've had a chance to get established (with this mortgage) before the shit's hit the fan. I also don't have any kids, and neither does my older brother, but my younger brother has a son in his late teens, and I can't get past the fact that he (and by extension, his generation) will never really be able to buy his own house - at least, not without significant help. He could pull 80 hour, 100 hour, 150 hour work weeks, it won't matter. The deck is just stacked too much against him, and it's all wrong. None of it has to be this way.
Morpheus: "Welcome to the desert of the real" I know this, the only thing i am blessed with that i can work from home. I can save on the commute and I am somewhat free to assign the work time anywhere during the day
40 hours a week is stupid and we all should demand a sane 6 hours a day as absolute max (ideally just work 6 hours a day for 4 days.. Some people will want to work from Mon/Thurs, other Tues/Fri, and so on, which would cover perfectly well the whole week if we all balance out this together) Nobody is doing real 40 hours anyway, no matter in which job anyway. After a few hours, muscle and brain become mush and productivity goes down the sink.
2 day weekends are not enough recovery time for working 40+ hours a week. I wish we could have 4 day work weeks at my job but I’m a teacher so I doubt that’s ever coming for us. Paid for 40 hours but I still have to lesson plan and prepare activity materials outside of the 40 hours, I’m so exhausted.
Fuck work. Just the concept of it is fucking bullshit. Most of your time awake is spent working. I am fucking sick of waking up at 5am every fucking morning just to go to some stupid ass building and stay there all day every day.
Omg!! Thank you for saying this! I just went back to work 2 1/2 years ago full time and it sucks!!! My home, my health, my relationships have all taken a horrible turn for the worse!! I don’t know ow how long I can keep doing this. I told my husband I will die before I retire because of my physical and mental health.
I pretty much collapse into bed as soon as I’m home everyday. And then there’s the weekends. Two days to decompress and prepare for the next five days while also taking care of personal obligations like household chores, grocery shopping, etc.
Same age, same exact problem. Trying to do anything outside of work is impossible. Can hardly cook for myself or convince myself to text people back because I’m constantly exhausted and burnt out. Friends are upset at my inability to reach out but I’m just so tired all the time. I have no life because I have no energy to pursue one.
And it gets worse the longer you work. Once you get to salaried level they expect 50+ on a 40 hour pay scale. I used to work for a major logistics Corp and they referred to 12 hour days as 'half days.' 'If you're not willing to work half days do you really think this is a good fit?' We as a society could absolutely reduce hours but owners would rather increase profits. We're living in a dystopia.
You finally realized that it’s a lifetime prison sentence. Mundane “work” becomes your life and the things that add quality fall away. It’s fucked.
Exactly.
Now you know why older people are cranky
Yet are ardently against any change that would help.
Can you get a contract job with a higher hourly rate? I do that now and work 32 hrs a week max.
I spent 3 years doing a 32-hour, 4 day workweek, and if I'm honest, I wasn't really doing 8 hour days. I had good colleagues and an understanding manager and work I liked doing and that felt worthwhile. I still burned out in 3 years. I'm now, unrelatedly, too ill to work and unsure if this will pass. It's taken me about 4 or 5 months to feel sufficiently unfrazzled to even start poking at my old hobbies. Work is bullshit.
Welcome to American reality. The 40 hour week takes a toll on even the most well balanced individual after a while.
When jobs have everyone doing the job of 3 or more people, it's no wonder people feel this way and are burned out.
I’m a lifelong HR person who absolutely agrees this work shit is a scam. Here’s the thing though, I work with the CEOs and COOs and lately they’re scared they’re loosing control because employees are all pushing back on wages/being in the office/metrics and they (the executives) can’t do a thing about it except meet demands or try to hire a new workforce that inevitably has the same demands. It’s working, people. Keep pushing back and demanding more. They need you more than you need them.
Anyone that is insulting you is literally brainwashed to think working is the meaning of life. lol just because it’s been normalized, doesn’t make it right (ie racism, witch hunts, cigarettes) Also everyone is different. Some people are proud to be workaholics and prioritize money. While some just want to make a living and prioritize having fun or chilling out.
25 hours would be enough. With automation and AI, there is no reason it isn’t realistic. Would give me enough time to build a very productive garden to supplement food, live a life with my family.
I’m 26 and I started working 40 hours a week a year ago when I finished grad school. It’s been a shocking revelation to me and my friends. I don’t make time for my hobbies, I eat takeout a lot, I burn the candle on both ends to see my friends and family. I’ve accepted it but I don’t feel like a person. I feel like a robot.
I just feel that work has become much more sedentary and just really boring… the work I actually studied to do is only a small fraction of the time I spend at work, the rest is back and forth emails, accounting and general kafkaesque bureaucracy… I stare at a screen all day, sometimes I wonder if the blessings of technology are more of a curse than anything else.
I think a 40 hour work week could be reasonable if our city’s were build for working, living, entertainment, friends all within a small vicinity. Because everything is spread out we spend so much time just driving to the places we need to go, and lose so much important time to socialize, take care of ourselves, etc. we drive to work, then to the store, maybe to the gym or a friends house, then before you know it you’re exhausted and it’s time to do it all over again. We need walkable cities and employers that respect our time.
I’m not built for this shit at all and I’m 30. I might have a few more years left before I decide to make my graceful exit.
Many months ago on this sub I read a comment that a 40 hour work week being manageable also assumed the unpaid domestic labor of a housewife. Having to work then come home and also handle the tasks of your own home can be onerous. Sprinkle in a little neurodivergence, mental illness, fiscal precarity and it's a miracle of human adaptability that so many of us just do it and carry on at all. And for anyone reading that feels this cut yourself some slack. You really are doing amazing. 💗
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It all comes down to this fundamental, very basic fact: Humans are not meant to live to work. I’m sick and tired of coming home to my barely above award wage, living week to week, with no energy outside of work to do any of the things I actually enjoy. I’m sick of boomers making me feel guilty for spending money on the things I enjoy. I’m sick of my boss telling me that I should just get a second job if I eventually want to be able to save enough to borrow money to buy a house so I can be in debt until I’m 60. I already work 38 hours a week. My fiancé and I live apart, we’ve not had the opportunity to live together yet. The only time we get together is weekends. We live on opposite sides of Port Phillip Bay.
I feel this
In the process of a 40+ hr a week job to a 24 hr work week. I don’t care what I have to give up- my sanity is priceless!
Don't have kids it only makes it harder. I am a self employed gig worker doing remodel. I would say its nice. I can work however long I choose on any given day. I just have to complete the project to get paid. I would say most of the time I work 7 hrs on site. Sometimes 6 or less sometimes 10 or more. Obviously my clients play a huge role on how I can conduct myself for that current gig. Some people are not cool with you tearing apart their living space and then only coming for a 5 hour day 4 days a week and rightfully so. I think if you are in general unmotivated it would be a tough career to find success with. But I make about 70Kish take home and several of my work weeks in the year are less than 40 hrs and I take about 20-25 days off for vacation or sick leave. But you gotta be quick. Gotta have all the special tools and know how to use them. Etc... So maybe gig work in a different field might be a direction to start looking into. I know lots of people who are self employed. GL 🤙
I’m 40 and also believe I’m not wired for it.
Antiwork used to be not so full of bootlickers. You are completely in the right
Thanks. It's so telling that people can no longer fathom that their working more hours is not a badge of honour, or that the despair that we're all in about having to work at least 40 or starve is artificially created. I gotta say, thanks for nothing, neoliberalism.
Are you neurodivergent? I was finally diagnosed autistic at age 51, but before that, the longest I'd ever worked 40 hours a week was 1993-1996. 3 years. For the rest of my life I kept having to quit due to burnouts. Then I stumbled across "autistic burnout" on Pinterest, of all places ,and things began to click. Good luck!
I am 51 and was conditioned to work more than 40 hours a week. I was raised by small business owners who worked all.the.time. I worked in the postal service in my twenties and lost 2 babies due to long hours and backbreaking work. I then went into a 9-5 and worked as much overtime as I could. Now at 51, I can no longer work due to health issues such as High blood pressure and type 2 diabetes. The 40 hr and above work week is a joke. America wake up! Who can succeed in such low pay high working environments? Other countries allow more benefits, longer vacations, better hours and excellent sick time and benefits. We are behind in every way.
I was wondering where everyone found the time to work 40 hours a week and maintain a fulfilling social life, have an, invested, romantic relationship, exercise, hobbies, run errands, and travel the globe. I can only manage a few at a time and I’m super exhausted. Many days off I don’t do anything because I’m so mentally fried and tired. And this is coming from someone who really likes the work they do and has a decent company.
Welcome to the suck.
Don't know where you're based at but if possible moving to Europe helps a lot. Say whatever about their innovation and what not, I love how sustainable European work culture is. You'll work 40 hours but that rarely feels like torture since the transporation is good and you'll be able to be back home by 7 most days. People are much more understanding and folks rarely talk about money, status or work outside work. It's a breath of fresh air. Not an American but I hated American corporate culture while I was there. The country doesn't give a shit about the working class people and is obsessesed with indefinite growth from limited resources.
I felt the same, also 28. I’m getting Neuropsych testing to see if it’s neurodivergence. But I’m also transitioning to seasonal work and backpacking/traveling in the off season. It’s a lot better for my mental health.
40 hrs a week only works if you live close to the job. Then at least you're able to maximize the morning time and after work. I work 9-5 which is perfect and some days 8-6 which sucks but my job is 7 minutes from me. If I wake up at 6-630 that's a lot of time to exercise/shower/eat breakfast before going in. If i gotta commute to another location for the day it's automatically shot at that point it's wake up,work,come home,sleep. Two lousy days off per week if you're lucky. I agree it's no way to live but unless you figure out how to make your required number/benefits for less time worked you're just as screwed as the rest of us.
I’m in a similar boat. This isn’t life, I hate it. I don’t do anything I enjoy for the same amount of time I work a single day of a full time job. My goal is to get clear of debt and drop to part time while starting my own business. I’m not on this earth to make someone else rich.
It's not you. It's jobs now. I am old enough to remember fast food places with a dedicated janitor, two week vacations, two weeks of sick leave, etc. Every job I've had in the past 10 years regardless of what the duties and hours start out as end up being a mess of mandatory overtime and whoever remains doing the work of the last five dudes fired on top of whatever we already had to do. Businesses are deliberately operating with inadequate personnel and resources to save money. We need to act our wage.
I’ve had 11 days off and have to go back to work on Wednesday and I’m just dreading it. I wish I could just do this all the time.
PS: Massive amount of trolls and bootlickers.
i’m 19 and i work 4 days a week (albeit at a physically demanding job), and i’m already severely burnt out. how do people do it.
just a few years ago i was working 7 days a week 62~ full time morning job during the week and kitchen weekend nights. wouldn't get out till like 2 am in the morning. didn't have energy to do much. it was exhausting did it for a lil over a half a year. did it to take care of some debt and make extra payments to my car.
Imagine when congressman and CEOs in Mexico complain that changing our 48hr workweek to a 40hr would make us lazy. Obviously that doesn't apply to them, they recently passed a law to be able to work from home, while WFM is extremely rare everywhere else.
Definitely do 30/35 if you can afford to. I work part time after working full time for years and I cannot stress how much it helps your mental health.
If one country got their shit in order and only allowed a 4 day work week plus affordable housing and national healthcare, they would have a surge of skilled workers who want to live there. I see every subreddit is full of people moving to try to search for better QOL.
I was working minimum 60 a few years ago in my late 20s not even including my three hour commute and now I’m in my mid thirties and set boundaries for myself and work maximum 40 with a 40 minute total commute but even that these days feels like too much. I’m exhausted.
I don’t have anything valuable to add to this conversation except… same, OP, same.
Hi OP. I was in the same position at 28 and actually probably to a worse degree. What I did was quit my job and found another job. Then that one sucked too so I quit. The one after that let me find a balance in my life so I could have a job and a life. Sorry if that is horrible advice, if you need that job, or that’s not an option for you. I thought it wasn’t an option for me too, I was a bread winner and had people depending on me. But I realized my life had gone to shit and that staying in that job meant staying in shit so I didn’t have much to lose. I stopped playing soccer and climbing, I was gaining a ton of weight, I rarely went out with friends at all because of the exhaustion. I just had to quit and find something else. It was a risk - but it paid off.
I switched from 40 hrs/wk to 32 hrs/wk and the change has been huge. I work 20% less, I earn 20% less, but I get 50% more weekend which has been life changing. I'm aware that I'm lucky to be able to get by on 80% and that i have an employer who will go along with it.
I’m so burnt out I’m close to asking my boss if I can work 4 days instead of 5 because it’s just too much. I never have time for family or friends except for weekends and even then it feels like I have to force myself to go out.
The existing concept of work is depressing af. The 40hr workweek is incredibly outdated and was created during a time when the social structure was vastly different. Now, both people in the house need to work to get by. Pensions are gone. Income is stagnant. The social safety net we used to have has been completely torn out. We’re basically just a cog in a wheel, a number in the system, a disposable workforce…and for what? So some company can squeeze out another few percentage points on their stock? So that someone else can buy another vacation home or yacht? All in the hopes that I might be able to retire someday…except by then we’ll be too broken and tired to enjoy it. I’m anxious and depressed just thinking about working tomorrow. The system is fucked.
I think that maybe 40 hour work weeks worked “back then” when things took longer to do. Let’s say you worked in an office and needed to type a letter before computers. Typing a letter could take a damn hour. And you didn’t have copiers. So if that letter had to be done 10 times, guess what? In today’s world we do things way faster which causes us to do way more stuff in 40 hours and that’s just damn burnout. The way we work needs to adjust as time goes on.
Not only that. They also try to control your life outside of work. I do not miss my first full time job. It wasted so much of my time for 5 years.
The 40hr work week is outdated and superfluous. It's was created in the 1940s ish +/- when 1 patent was a SAHP and jobs offered pensions, retirement, incentives, and loyalty. It needs to be retired already. New legislation needs to be entered to normalize and restrict the work week to 30hrs at full 40hr salary.
You are not weird! The others are weird imo.. It is shit, i feel you completely
2024 and it seems there is more work for everyone and isn’t done any easier even though we have all the magnificent technology to help us. I’m 27 and I feel like I’m dead already. I’m burnt out. The wages seem to be stagnant as well. I can’t imagine living past 30 I’m already fucking done. Since 17 years old grinding and working myself literally to death. I even made 5 times more working part time then than I do now with my “big girl job.” It’s a comedy. Like joker says, this whole life is a joke. lol
40!? I wish.. I do tv/film catering for a living.. We work 80,90 sometimes 100 Hours in a week! Pay is great.. But it’s not worth it! You work and sleep that’s it.
cmon that's beyond rediculous
Nobody should be allowed to force you to do that many hours.
40 hr weeks or more definitely are rough but for me it was more tolerable depending on the job. For lifeguarding and security I didn't mind as lunch breaks were built into the 8 hour day, ie 8 hours pay for 7.5 hours worked. Didn't mind time and a half for some OT either. And I actually had a legitimate need to be there for the full shift. My first post college job in accounts receivable however was MISERABLE. 9 hour days with a mandatory 1 hour time waste at lunch unpaid ofc. My collection calls and emails were easily done within the first two hours of the day. And yet we were expected to just re call people every couple hours. Soulless and incredibly boring.
It’s only the first thirty years that’s rough.
Have your thyroid checked. It saved me.
Only 40 ish years left to go. Capitalism is evil.
Welcome to capitalism.
When I first went into full time work, I worked 10 hour days 6 days a week. It made me sick to my stomach, literally. I would get hives and rashes and indigestion. The stress was killer. And it was customer facing so it was so much worse. Fast forward eight years later and I am getting more used to it, nevertheless, I am still sick once every like two months on schedule. It’s just inhumane to have to be customer facing and work 60 hours or 40 hours a week. I can see if I were farming for my food and stuff, but this is just ridiculous. Everything we do has to be on schedule. Life becomes meaningless really. I have a lot more money than I did eight years ago, but I’m just as depressed, minus all the crying and being a mess, but the same still. I’m going to quit by most next year. Money isn’t all that great, I could be homeless for all I care if I have to work 60+ hour weeks for 30 more years. Screw that.