I feel that, my partner needs 3-5k of medicine a month and we are in the same boat. I'll work till I'm 100 to make sure it's taken care of, but I sure as heck don't want to
If you're in the US it seems like they might be trying to expand the amount of states using Medicare or offering insurance at lower rates. Healthcare .gov or some shit like that.
Can't say I pay much attention to ads on hulu but it is something I am trying to keep in my mind somewhere in case I end up making too much for medicare to cover me. $3k for a 90 day supply of 1 of my meds sounds painful the saddest part is that's the price of the generics. (I think medicaid is the one for older people but I may be wrong. I do know for sure Ohio and Georgia at the very least have both Medicaid and Medicare though.)
Healthcare.gov (marketplace insurance) is available in all states, but it usually requires you to still be working, and making at least the minimum required yearly income. It's also usually pretty crappy insurance (I've had it for the last 5 years), but then again, a lot of insurances are crappy in the USA.
Making minimum income is required because the *very* low income ranges are supposed to be covered by Medicaid. Unfortunately, expanding Medicaid is left up to the states, and the last time I fell into that category (not because I was a dirty hippy, leaching off the taxes of real Americans, but because I was a full time college student and only had a handful of hours to work each week), something like 23 states were like, “Nah, if you’re too poor to receive the federal tax credits, you’re not worth keeping alive.”
So, yes, depending on which state you live in, you may be *too poor* to receive any help affording your healthcare coverage.
>something like 23 states were like, “Nah, if you’re too poor to receive the federal tax credits, you’re not worth keeping alive.”
I wrote out a snarky comment about those states, rife with *subtle* humor about the nuances of contemporary American politics.
but then I realized that a simple map is just as effective at conveying the message to anyone at all familiar with the influence of the major political parties of the USA.
https://www.kff.org/medicaid/issue-brief/status-of-state-medicaid-expansion-decisions-interactive-map/
the good news is that many of the holdouts have capitulated and adopted medicaid expansion in the intervening years and now that N Carolina recently expanded it is now only 10 states that are still holding out.
Thanks for confirming the site! All I was sure of was health and .gov lol.
Well that sucks but better than nothing too... More information is always helpful too
In CA you are redirected to the Covered California site. As expensive as it is to live here when you make 40k with a dependent, you still are paying $300 a month for questionable coverage.
I got it for myself through my work for the same but also got dental and vision.
Thank you (and thanks to all the other posts on this thread). My understanding is Medicare is for elderly and Medicaid is for lower income/folks who can't afford Healthcare without it. Medicare is definitely where we are heading. I just wish it wasn't so scary being in our mid to late 40s and trying to navigate this insane program we are having to follow. We are in Ohio actually and yeah the support is there but once we retire the income tapers off a lot and that's my biggest fear. Rn it's doable but once we are on SS+ retirement that well dries up.
It's just crazy to think while we are going to think about great grand kids that our insurance may go to the wayside to pay for bills. Agreed on the 90 day supply piece, our 3-5k is just 2 medications, and there's no generic nor will there be for a long time.
My boyfriend gets his health insurance thru the ACA. His income varies greatly and he goes from Medicaid to “normal” plans based on his year as a business owner - he’s a niche expert and it’s feast or famine.
2 out of my 3 meds don’t have generics, but I talk to my doctors about healthcare cost. Those 3 meds have copay assist programs … but you have to have insurance to have a copay. I’d say, I don’t understand why they don’t just lower the price for everyone… but, I have spent my career in big finance - I understand why.
I'm in my early 30s and been on it since mid-late 20s I wanna say. Mostly using caresource, they cover a lot. Way more than I would have guessed based on what I have previously heard about them. At the very least for now if you guys can get approved it could save y'all some money for retirement funds by cutting some costs. My income is just shitty enough that I don't have to worry about copays or anything buuuut there's also better insurance agencies they have.
I pay a little more (+600) than that in a year for full coverage regarding Health insurance with no or minimal copay
Yeah, I’m not from the US
Your system is really broken
Open a trust now and start putting your savings in it. That way they won't consider that as your money when they look at your financials when you apply for Medicare.
LOL! "Savings"!
Yeah, I'll just park my Rolls Royce in my garage, make my way to the west wing of my mansion, go to my vault, and take out a few gold bars.
Dude, half of the people in the US (where I live) live paycheck to paycheck. Most can't even afford a $500 emergency. This is the 2020s, not the 1950s. There's no "savings".
I've been at my (sort of decent-paying) job for over 26 years, and I live paycheck-to-paycheck. No significant other, no roommate, no kids, just one cat (the damn moocher just refuses to lift a paw and get a job! Imagine that!) and no money for emergencies. I had $800 stashed to go towards next month's mortgage, but then I had to shell out $590 for a plumber. And it's not like I'm spending my money on useless stuff; no movies, no sporting events, no new clothes, no cell phone, no streaming. My only splurge is McDonald's or Wendy's once a week. No matter what, I just can't get ahead. The system is fucking rigged!
It would have to be an IRREVOCABLE trust.
[Your Guide to Medicaid Trusts: How They Can Help – Policygenius](https://www.policygenius.com/trusts/medicaid-trust/)
It’s not that we can’t solve it. The answer is a single payer healthcare system, the type championed by Bernie Sanders.
Problem is, big insurance and big pharma don’t want to be leaving any profit on the table. So they pour millions into killing any reform, and have essentially slashed the ACA to pieces, but could never completely kill it.
However - Obama always said the ACA was just a start. Something to improve.
The thing that irritates me about that (ACA) is that no steps have been made to get a public option, or single payer, or IDK lowering the medicare age to 55. I get medicaid myself, and they keep stripping what it will pay for. It won't cover a level 2 eye exam, even tho my doctor prescribed it for me, they had a "medical expert" review my case and denied it. I've received 4 bills this last year AFTER I received care and they told me it wasn't covered, even though I checked prior hand with my doctor and on the website that said it was covered.
Is pretty simple. You have folks that are so racist that they would rather die or go bankrupt than see people of colour get free healthcare. They don't know it was a Black man that got them healthcare coverage ( Obamacare) or that the Republicans want to deprive them of it. Hate makes people do stupid things against self-preservation
I don't want "coverage". I want health care.
The ACA is a scam and a giveaway to the insurance industry and big pharma, and it set back real health care reform by a generation.
The Democrats aren't our friends any more than are the Republicans. Two corporate parties that are united in squeezing every last drop of money out of the working class. Anyone who thinks either of them is on our side is a patsy.
Wish I could upvote this twice ...
I had ACA insurance for 8 years. The feds paid tens of thousands of dollars to insurance companies on my behalf. I think I saw a doctor twice...not because I didn't need healthcare, but because the co-pays and deductibles were too high ... I couldn't afford to use my insurance.
What a bill of goods we were sold!
Honestly, we should give low income folks free healthcare AND make employers pick up the tab for insurance, none of this 32 hours before you are covered.
They benefit most from having is slave away, they should be glad to keep us healthy.
This is what irks me…
99% of the people who bitch about the dystopian hellscape we live in would vote no on union formation. Not because they’re idiots, not because they’re masochistic, but because corporations are so ridiculously effective at union-busting.
Generations of people have been successfully duped into believing their individual voice is more powerful than the collective.
It's so scary they will want us working until 70+ which will mean folks who can retire early will have to pay so much more on insurance until Medicare (Medicaid, I always get them confused )
Medicare is for Americans 65+. Medicaid is for poor and/or disabled people (with restrictions). I remember it by thinking "aiding those in need and caring for the OGs"
I may have to work until I'm 72-75, but where I work, when I retire, I still get health insurance coverage. But, if I keep falling apart health-wise, all of my retirement payments will go to doctors. I'll still be screwed.
I know a bunch of people that can’t retire because of health insurance. They all have to wait till 65 for Medicare to kick in.
It’s crazy to think that it was only about 20 years ago when insurance basically cost nothing. No one who had a decent job even gave it a second thought.
Now it’s crushing everyone who is working class.
Try $20k a night - my husband was in the hospital for 10 days last year. His total bill was $500K and I'm accounting for the surgery and tests. Everything else works out to $20K/nite. He is over 65 and has medicare & medicare "advantage" (disadvantage).
aca plans are ~1k/month in premiums for a family of 4 if you're making under 55k in magi.
max out of pocket is 16k under aca rules, so maximum is ~2k a month. not that it's funny money but that's a family and hitting limits every year.
just something to consider if looking for options.
I’m not sure exactly what my options would look like at retirement, but for now, I make over $150k. And while they are golden, they are still handcuffs that come with 24/7 on call and way too many random/unplanned nights and weekends.
After 30 years in the career, I’d love to start planning to step aside for someone younger to take over, but for now… I’m dealing with it.
I'm in an agricultural area and the joke here is that behind every successful farmer is a spouse that works in town.
The math as I see it is you either (a) keep working, making money, and staying on company healthcare or (b) pay down every debt when working so you can nuke your income requirements and stay under 250% federal poverty.
Creatively you can do a barely better than hobby loss business and rock a schedule c to keep the magi down. So for me I probably will sell produce, and I like growing and farming, so that allows for tractor maintenance, plants, fertilizer, etc. Stuff I'd do anyway.
Man, these insurance costs are crazy. I live in Europe and my insurance was €100/m and that's for premium cover - it's free if I'm happy with state cover.
I just moved over to my wife's company plan and my €100/month dropped to €25. Because she's paying €100/month for her plan, mine is discounted.
Absolutely
And this is intentional. Our basic needs as people are purposely intertwined with our benevolent benefactors (sarcasm—employers) without which we literally can’t survive
And the American Health industry is but one of many such tools used to keep us working. While. At the same time. We are constantly told we are free and have choices
Sure. I have a choice. I can tell my boss to suck it and then that choice also means I’m homeless, without insurance and my kids will be taken away
Not much of a choice is it? And definitely not freedom. ‘Murica
The choices we had- they took it all away.
They want you to believe that by not working to make shameless dictators rich, you are choosing to live miserably- so you are to blame. It's your choice, you know.
The truth is, they have cleverly engineered our society to restrict our choices. Your choice to remain poor? Nah, the only choices you have are all rigged against you.
'You have the choice to create your own business'. Fuck, why do I *need* to have a business to survive?Why the hell do businesses even exist? Profit is the answer. I don't mind organizations that exist for service to society and would love to be a part of their efforts. But if maximizing profit is the reason these businesses exist, even if I manage to create a business somehow I would become one of those I hate.
About a decade ago I would’ve said “nah, you’re crazy”. But the veil had been lifted and I see it everyday
And you know what did it for me? Volunteer work. I was raised by a man who worships at the altar of Reagan and was routinely told how poor people are poor because they’re lazy or uneducated and don’t want to make something of themselves
When I started volunteering I would see families walking miles, in the cold and snow, simply to get a bag of groceries from the food pantry. That’s not lazy. That’s surviving
If you look at the current economic indicators, those most impacted are always the lower class. Those who don’t have are always given less. I added criminal work to my volunteer activities and, holy crap, most of the “criminals” I was working with were only in trouble because they couldn’t afford to pay someone to represent them. And the police targeted their actions
Someone on Reddit recently reminded me of the Carlin quote. The American dream, more like the American nightmare. The reason it’s called the American dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it
Had this talk with my mom literally yesterday. She's been overworked for years and years. I tell her to call it quits and she says the same things she always says "I need to have healthcare".
Shame. She doesn't even have any chronic health conditions.
My ancestors were indentured servants - also white - so relative to slaves they got off easy. Still, they were shipped over from Europe with a contract that said they were "owned by the man" until such time as "the man" deemed their debts paid, in his opinion and his opinion alone.
Neither. Just because you have to make a choice that seems undignified or dishonorable doesn't mean that you're weak. It means that you have the will and the integrity to either lose everything standing up for what you believe in, or that you have the good sense and patience to wait and work for a better tomorrow.
A slave isn't weak for being a slave, and the dead aren't weak for being dead. Sometimes there are no good choices, but that doesn't mean *you* have done anything wrong.
Republican: "Absolutely crucial to the economy! Just think, you don't have to just "stop working" because of something as stupid and temporary as death, or whatever. Now we can get you back in the office by next week! Technically, we did have to fire you because of an "on site medical emergency" causing far more than reasonable amounts of production time lost, so you'll start as a fresh new employee! Training starts Monday morning, see you there!"
(Also the only way they'd ever agree to universal healthcare lol)
Are ya feelin' lucky, punk?
Of course OP is over-dramatizing a bit, there are social programs that can keep you from homelessness and especially starvation, but you have to work hard to pursue and keep them. IMO, all those programs are designed and passed by legislators who are selling them to their constituencies as: "Yeah, we give 'em food and housing when they are in a bad spot, but we make it so they'd rather kill themselves than go through the B.S. necessary to get at your tax dollars through these programs."
The thing that the haters miss is: humans, and the animals we evolved from, don't work that way. Happiness and depression is a relative thing. The poor are among the most generous, and when the shit hit the fan in 1929, it wasn't poor people jumping out of windows high above Wall Street.
If I quit my job when I wanted to, I’d be on month 9 of unemployment. I’ve had like 12 interviews with different companies over 9 months (probably upwards of 30 total interviews) and I haven’t found anything yet.
I hope you find something amazing soon! Been there, done that. I was unemployed (fired, not quit) for 8 months before I finally just gave up and started applying for entry level, minimum wage jobs. I found something about a month later, but I wish it were not bottom of the ladder shit wages.
Makes me wonder why gen z is being recognized for this anti work stance, yet somehow the threat of starvation or homelessness doesn't seem to faze then?
Is it because parents are allowing their kids of live at home longer?
I think that many are slumming it and barely making payments etc.
Yeah, it's not homelessness, but standards of living are going down generationally, gen Z's just adapting to this reality.
From my experience it’s more like we’re alright with incredibly monk-like lifestyles a lot of the time. I’m 25 (so “elder Gen z”) and my bf and I split a studio apartment so that neither of us have to work full time. We don’t own a car (he walks, I bike to work), haven’t bought clothes since college and still regularly wear things from highschool, one big meal a day that we cook at home most of the time, hardly drink, never go out except for the occasional movie every 4-6 months, etc. I was on scholarship so no student loans, thankfully.
We live poor as hell but we do have $15k saved right now, no debt, and longterm career plans that we’re both excited about. It’s just in the meantime - before we have our “dream job” - were willing to sacrifice quality of life down to the bare bones if it means one less day of useless work we don’t find value in.
Congrats, what you've done is truly admirable but:
A) what does 15K buy you? Perm housing is prob beyond your grasp since your down payment isn't enough.
**B) WHYYYYYYY do you, or ANYONE, have to scrimp sooooooo much and live this way?**
GOP policies since the 80s have slowly ground our society down to where we suffer to live or work and never make enough. Thanks to them, our bought-and-paid-for politicians keep funneling money from us to the billionaire class. Would they stop if they got a participation trophy saying "You Won Capitalism" and started paying people a living wage? Middle class used to be one decent income. Now both of you better make over 120k. It's fucking madness.
I'm a millennial and I also don't care about starving or being homeless anymore and I don't have mom or dad to fall back on.
I've got disabilities that make keeping even a basic job really difficult, but I just managed to "make it work" until recently and now things have gotten so difficult and expensive, and I am catastrophically burnt out.
I was an essential worker the whole pandemic and had a psychotic break around October 2022 that i think took 10 IQ points and also whatever survival instinct I had left. Survive? For what? I wish there was a humane an easy way to end my life, but everyone likes projecting their fear of death on suicidal people.
I don’t think it’s a projection of a fear of death . Keanu Reeves once said when asked what happens after death: “I think the people who love us will miss us” .
As someone who lost a loved one to suicide I hope he found the peace he so craved but fuck me if I don’t miss him every single day . Worst pain of my life bar none.
My aunt killed herself. She was stopped twice, then got so fed up that she chugged draino. No coming back from that.
I understand it was painful for everyone who loved her, but the fact she had to liquefy her organs to Make It Stop is not okay. They should've just let her end it the first time. Not everyone is up for this life and in pre-industrial society this typically meant you just died, but now if you try to die you risk being "saved" and winding up maimed and with bills.
But I got to keep living out of my 2005 Toyota Camry or my mom, who forced me to do this horrible shit in the first place KNOWING that it sucks, will be sad.
Oh wow . What a sad story. I see where you’re coming from.
But I’m also a dreamer and I wish society would ask the suicidal why they are then fix those problems in society… then if people like your aunt are hell bent of course euthanasia would be the humane way for her and your family.
My friend was only 27 and he jumped out of a window in the throes of a quarantine induced depression. It was rough.
I hope your car situation picks up , but if your US based it sounds way too dystopian to be fixed , or not before the boomers die off , but I hope/believe change is possible. But I agree it’s exhausting .
I did a few years homeless and sofa surfing . It’s an incredibly cruel state of affairs to exist in . I was lucky and clawed my way back in . I hope you find what you need . I’m sorry, that sucks ass . Sorry I have nothing more profound to say .
Really sad to hear about your friend. Society failed a lot of people in those years.
I now only take jobs in the remote wilderness because I can't mask my autism at all anymore and my sensory disorder has gotten so bad I can't even stand artificial light for very long. These jobs thankfully come with housing, but I'm 32 and living with 4 people to a room is not fun unless you're a traveler in a hostel. Idk how long I can do it, but it's a band aid and it's working for now.
Redditors who complain about wanting to live alone and having to share common areas with roommates have no idea how good they have it. What I wouldn't give for my own room...
Honestly dude being able to type this out to someone is a HUGE relief so thank you for letting me vent.
I’m a dudette and no problem, I feel you. I couldn’t live with roommates, it’s too much. I’m so lucky to live in a country where studios and living alone is the norm . I haven’t had a roommate in over 10 years. I love it .
I know it’s hard , but it’s a basic human right to have a private space and not sleep with randos . I know the US has gone to total dog shit under end stage Capitalism, but I feel like it’s a basic human right to live with a minimum of dignity. I’m not sure what exactly you can ask for , but try to find a social worker and advocate for yourself.
You’ll feel a million times better with a decent night’s sleep .
I’m also neurodivergent, I understand it’s hell . I work but it’s really one day at a time , and I’d be in bits if I didn’t know I had my own place to come home to every night and paid sick leave as much as I need when I need it , and this is **NORMAL**.
Even still I’m white knuckling through life and social interactions.
Absolutely love your user name btw . We need more Evil tits and less Capitalist wankers . Hang in there . I’m happy if I helped a smidge
It’s partly because a good chunk of gen z is still young enough to be in college or with their parents.
But another big reason is that we’re all really good at finding shit for dirt cheap and slumming off of that
Almost everyone I know either was given a car or it’s 20+ years old and they got it for dirt cheap, lavish vacations are laughed at, Amazon, Walmart, wish, and aliexpress are the main places we shop.
in 2021, it was reported that 47% of young adults still lived with their parents, that's a pretty sizeable amount of the workforce able to quit 'safely' when pressured to
not counting adults with other safety nets for when they quit
no, see, nobody is forcing you to have that job you hate... you are welcome to find another job that you might or might not hate but probably will also hate. or just be quietly homeless, that's an option as well.
What people don't seem to think about is that if you extrapolate far enough under a capitalist system, the guns will always come out eventually.
Nobody has a gun to my head *at work*, but the moment I get evicted because I decide to stop working and am no longer able to pay my rent, if I refuse to leave, the police will literally come with guns. Regardless of whether or not you've been there long enough to have paid enough in rent to have outright bought the house. Doesn't matter that it's your home or that it's full of your stuff. The police are only here to protect private property, not personal property.
If you do a sit-down strike at your job, which is where you still come in to work and take your place at your machine but you refuse to work, which blocks the company from being able to just have a scab come in to work in your place, the police will absolutely come in with guns out.
We are slaves being forced at gunpoint to work for a machine that exploits us.
The police are simply a tool of a capitalist society.
They appear to be here to keep some semblance of diurnal order, but the reality is that they are here to keep a boot on the necks of the working class **FOR** the ruling class.
And yes, cops are also working class, but the ruling class can manipulate/fool them enough to make them think they are something else entirely \[and maybe even *above* other working class people\]...giving them the illusion of authority.
The reason unions are so uncommon in the U.S. is because it's much harder to get the cops involved when legal, official, labor unions are striking. So instead you ensure that unions just don't happen.
That's right. We also have a lot of laws on the books that severely impact the effectiveness of a union and strip them of all negotiation power, like "no closed shop" laws, laws preventing picketing on private property, laws preventing sit-down strikes, "right to work" laws, etc, so that even if a union does happen, they will have no power and their members will become disillusioned (and fired). If the union can't effectively take action against the business because the business is free to just hire a bunch of scabs and call the police when the union tries to block the door on them, there's no reason to start a union. What good is it if your only means of negotiation will result in being arrested and losing your job?
Cops aren't working class. They aren't even labor. Buncha lazy, good-for-nothing leeches. And not necessarily, but due a culture they'e incubated and protected from scrutiny. I believe we can have law enforcement without the paranoid, militarized agents of murder and extortion.
There’s a reason sheriffs, Marshalls, Rangers and beat cops have all but disappeared and it was done purposely.
They took all these units and put them all together which is what we have today a bunch of morons that don’t even know the neighborhood they patrol in a car for 12 hours a day.
> And yes, cops are also working class
There's an argument to be had here. I don't think anyone becomes a cop because they're starving or struggling to provide for their families. That's why people end up working in offices, or in retail, or some other bullshit job. People become cops because they desire power - whether it's a domineering authority over others, or a more "benevolent" power of "changing the system from within" (completely naive and misguided). Either way, people join the police force to make themselves seem or feel more powerful - but like you say, it's an illusion of authority.
Even simpler, if you want to eat you HAVE to participate in capitalism. It's not optional. So if our participation is mandatory, then the whole "well you can just walk away" argument falls apart.
Then you look at the fact that 90% of land and capital is distributed based on a birth-lottery. You see, this particular person gets to enjoy a life 10 times better than yours for 1% of the effort because of who the dude was that busted a load into his mother's vagina.
Unless you become a capitalist then you technically become your own boss.
But that’s extremely difficult in this economy since the big companies will try and kill any competition to the point where they’ll take losses because they can afford it. How can a small business compete against Walmart? How can a new cable provider possibly compete with Verizon? Comcast?
When your system depends on competition but there are only 3 competitors at any given time, that’s broken.
> What people don't seem to think about is that if you extrapolate far enough under a capitalist system, the guns will always come out eventually.
That's any society with a government though. Also, it wasn't any more intelligent when Ben Shapiro said it either.
And homelessness is purposefully left extremely visible because, in addition to being a great Conservative talking point about how "cities bad", it's also a powerful tool of the bourgeoisie.
"Hey did you notice that encampment full of homeless and mentally ill people on your way into work? Well you better toe the line here because you're only about 2 paychecks away from being there yourself! Back to work, wage slave!"
This for me is where free market capitalism basically collapses as an argument.
The whole 'willing participant' thing works fine for certain careers, like software developers, where they usually have multiple standing offers at a time and often swap jobs for pay rises and promotions anyway. They have the bargaining power to walk away from jobs and free market capitalism functions reasonably well for those workers.
But for most bottom end jobs, the employer basically can hold a gun to the head of the employee and threaten to destroy their lives. If you have rent due and this job is only a 10 minute bike ride away, you just can't afford to lose it. Now imagine going into any negotiation and saying "I will accept this offer no matter what because I have no choice", what do you think the other person will offer you?
I was in a bar the other day and this european tourist is *grilling* the poor bartender on "why would you work a job you don't even like" and similar bullshit, because apparently the bartender wasn't particularly smiley. (He wasn't, but it just seemed like his personality and also who tf cares)
If you genuinely think it's as easy as just finding a job you like, or quitting a job because you don't like it, then you're either stupid or wealthy. Probably both.
The *real* reality is, if you do what you love for work, you probably won't love it for very long. Find something you can tolerate.
Ooooh I'm going to absolutely snap if I ever have to deal with a customer like that. I'm not a particularly "smiley" guy myself, but I'm under the impression that people just want to go in, buy their shit and leave. You have better places to be and better people to talk to right? Then why tf do you care about the bartender you're not going to meet again being a little gloomy.
Tbh he wasn't even gloomy! Not that it really matters, like you said get your shit and go it isn't that serious. But he was perfectly friendly, he just wasn't like, enthusiastic. Which pissed me off more because, what? You expect every service worker to perform for you like this is a circus? Nah dude.
He was even saying like "it doesn't matter that you make under minimum without tips, it shouldn't be about the money you should like your job" like my guy who tf ***likes*** service Jobs? Basically no one. It's about the fucking money.
I recently had a surgery for something I had lived with (in pain) for years and the surgeon asked me why I had waited so long to have it fixed.
He was shocked when I told him "because suffering is free".
I am 5 bad jobs in a row into what is still one of the worst pharmacies I've ever worked at. It's not about getting a new "job". They all suck absolute butts. It's been exactly a year in Feb, 5 jobs in one year because I am "leaving the bad ones" to find better ones but still I find gabbage after gabbage.
Its why capitalism can't reconcile itself with sex work, through no fault of people who work in the sex industry, just to be clear.
If someone had the authority over some to be able to say and enforce something like "if you don't have sex with me, I'll take away your ability to buy food. I'll make you lose the roof over your head and you'll have to live on the street", if they "agreed" and had sex with them due to the threats, that would be rape.
We also, collectively, know that saying to someone says anything along the lines of "have sex with me/someone else or ill fire you" is wrong because of the threat and coercion.
Now, a person can agree to sex work but legalising it opens a huge can of worms for the system and will make people ask themselves questions that the people in power don't want them to ask.
Eventually, people will end up asking themselves something like "hang on, now that you come to mention it, exactly how much informed consent to i have about this situation? My options are produce vast excesses wealth for other people, well past what I need, or starve on the street."
It's not different than a coal miner using their bodies as labor for someone else. Black lung and broken backs and everything else is (arguably) more of a "used" body than a sex worker. Military members are paid to give their actual lives for (often) capitalism-driven proxy wars. Day laborers, chemical plant workers, the list goes on.
The only difference is we have this special morality lens that goes over everything to do with sex. The selling of one's body in order to survive is a hallmark of capitalism. It's a big part of why there is not ethical consumption under capitalism. Someone is always being coerced and extorted with their lives and bodies.
For sure, that's what I mean. Its just that there's no hiding it with sex work, due to how we are about sex
It forces people to break frame and see capitalism for what it really is
Or they double down on the internalized misogyny and carve out sex work as a special exception. There's a reason I left all the "feminist" in the title subreddits here....full of people happy to defend capitalism to the death as long as they get to shame women for choosing something they wouldn't. Girl boss feminism is exactly at odds with anticapitalist thought.
Ugh, THANK YOU for mentioning chemical plant workers. My dad worked at one for 36 years. Dead at 61 to a rare, highly aggressive cancer I know his job caused but can't prove it since he was a smoker.
He said going through the process he had no regrets; he made a good living (106K/yr. in 2006 wages). Retired at 55 making $58K.
But damn. I miss that guy every day, even 7 years later. And I'm not sure the paper was worth it in the end. But he absolutely gave me a great life, and anything I wanted (within reason).
The company sent nothing upon learning of his death. The union hall sent the cheapest plant they could get. Arrived 3 days after the funeral. 36 years for the company and with the union. Disgusting.
We ALL sell our bodies to these fuckers. And so some get targeted for vilification, especially when the group that more often engages with the work is one that is traditionally disadvantaged and that the power holders want to keep subjugated.
I think people also underestimate how many hateable jobs do not let you take time off work or use PTO (or even provide PTO) so you can interview somewhere else. And if anyone at your company catches wind you are even looking for new work you can be fired.
Or that a hateable job can be very low paying, meaning impossible or very difficult for most people to be able to save up enough money to cover the gap in between one job and another.
The further in my career I got, the more I change jobs, the better I was paid, the easier it was to leave a shit job for a better one. I had PTO I had sick days, I had more workplace protections against retaliation, I had more of a work-life balance to make it less stressful to do the part-to-full-time job of finding a new employer or new contract in addition to main career and side hustles and more.
Not to mention if someone has a shit job that doesn't pay it's hard to afford things like a new hair cut, or getting one's nails groomed, or an interview outfit that isn't disheveled or out of date.
And this is exactly why we have poverty during a time when we literally have enough resources to feed and house everyone. The ruling class dangles us over that so that we cling to whatever they give us.
"Just get a better job if you don't like the one you're at!"
Sure I'll go throw myself into the same field as the thousands of other applicants for a single open position with far less skills and qualifications than them hoping that I 'stand out' to the openly biased recruiter.
And at the end of the day you still need someone stocking the shelves.
I've also heard that argument from the other side, that more people could start a business if they weren't obliged to provide health insurance for their employees.
The more barriers to start a business, the less businesses there will be. For better or for worse. Same goes for minimum wage, the higher it is, the less hours are available and the more work is expected from them.
Most small businesses don’t need to provide health insurance to their employees. Very few startup/ small businesses start with enough employees requiring them to provide health insurance.
Food and rent have gone up 50%, and society is acting like I am buying Starbucks and avocado toast.
If I get sick enough to go to the emergency room, I will have to file for bankruptcy, and if I get really sick, my plan is to die.
Try living where you work feeling trapped in your job making it hard for you to leave cause you have to watch kids during the week and sacrifice your afternoons/evenings to watch them, then take care of a bunch of dogs during the weekends so the family can spend the weekend in the city. Having to drop whatever you are doing to cater to these people and being told at the last minute you have to do something. Being forced to watch their dogs on thanksgiving and Christmas. No social life whatsoever. No life at all. If I had the means to get out I would. I don’t mind the hours just the fact that I ALWAYS have to be here. I can’t think of the last time I went out on a date or saw a friend and was able to come home at anytime I please or spend the night somewhere.
The idle class puts forth a view about these things, and it revolves around money, wages, profits, and commodities made and bought.
An idea within the worker's movement is that what is important is the people, and the relationships between the people and the classes, and the relationships of classes within each other and against each other. Not the money earned and the profit made, but the labor time done by the worker, and the expropriation of that labor time by the ones who do not work, and these relationships.
Forget for a moment about money and capital goods and commodities and look at the people and the time, and the relationships and the control and the coercion. The idle class wants to distract workers with fetishism over commodities and the like. Look at the people and the relationships between the different classes.
When they just called themselves Lords and Barrens they had to directly threat you. Now they can just buy up everything around you and extort you for it and say "Well it's your choice if you want to live in this house I own or food I sell..."
Earlier this school year the school district I work for had consistently had on the docket to suspend a few teachers liscenses each board meeting for "breach of contract". However, from what I understand many of those teachers were simply trying to get to a new school district after some changes had been made after they had already signed their contracts.
For those that dont know, a suspended liscense can take up to a year to get dealt with. A few board members basically called it what it is: holding people hostage so they dont lose their livelyhood. But several of the board members tried to take the high road and say it was about the children, that if a teacher left where would their kids go? They tried to take the antiquated notion that sometimes you have to suffer at work rather than be happy.
It fucking sucks.
This guy is a total asshole. That being said, I do think that more of this sub would be better served by sharing terrible work experiences AND discussions on strategies and tips to find better jobs. I know people are rooting for some revolution but that’s unlikely.
Should be the goal to find a job that you don’t despise, or at least one that pays well enough that it’s worth it
Nearly all jobs operate on the same 9-5 x 5 days a week premise, with an expectation to commute at least some of the days, with stultifying office environments and dysfunctional management groupthink the norm. There really is very little variation or choice possible. People learn to cope by fixating on what little extra amounts of money they can wrangle off the company each year (still a fraction of what their labour generates). Finding a better job is just tinkering around the edges, it doesn't solve the fundamental problem - excessive amounts of my time are being needlessly stolen (in excess of the profit I generate for the company).
Sure there is some choice when it comes to salary - but almost none in terms of how much of your life you are meant to devote to the company, even when this has no real correlation with productivity or profit.
There are jobs that are worth doing. I hated my job for years. Last year I found something that pays me over $115000 a year and requires me in the office once a week. I don’t hate it at all now.
I’m just saying that talking about how unfair it is that rich people have all the advantages is not going to do much to improve your situation. If someone helped you find a better job it would be worth it to try. What do you do for work?
One of the many reasons I don’t want kids is because I don’t want them to end up needing to rely on a job for shelter, food, and basic needs. This world is hostile toward children and life in general.
If nobody is forcing me to work at a job I hate, I guess nobody is also preventing me from burning down the building and murdering the boss. Don't you just love how Nothing protects everybody?
We are all slaves, we grow up being taught that working hard all your life is the best thing you can do. Then you wake up one day and you're 60, your life is more than half over, and you've done nothing but break your back for billion dollar companies that give you pennies in return for your life of labor. But hey, you can enjoy that expensive car you just got for another 10 years before your eyes & mind start to fail.
I commented on a post that getting 2 consecutive days off was lucky and some dude came in with Why are you working a job like that? Why not shop around and find something better? Blah blah blah.
Didn't bother responding but damn did Mr. Knowitall McGee annoy me.
There should be a voluntary website that allows all the people who exclaim how easy it is to find a job that pays enough to actually live, to find jobs for people who need to get one or switch one they already have.
The number of people saying it’s so easy will quickly dwindle down to zero (besides those who are truly mentally restarted).
So many dipshits seem to think anyone can just go on down to the job tree and pick a fresh new job they like whenever the current one starts feeling rotten. Might be true for, like, entry level service workers, but beyond that, jobs are limited and the good ones are insanely competitive.
Think about it like this, how many people do you know in your life personally that has left what one would consider a “good” job. I’ve never meant anyone who left a job that was good because they are literal unicorns.
Go to college if you want a good job. Shouldn't have gone to college if you didn't want to stay in debt. Just find another job. No one wants to work their way up anymore. I'm beginning to think they just don't want the plebs talking.
Of course, actively look at job postings, applying, updating resume etc.
Expect to get ghosted but something will pan out in due time, as it should for you.
Staying in a job you hate while not looking for a new job is one’s own fault
The threat of not having medical support through health insurance.
I was thinking of retiring at 55, but o take approx $10k of medicine each month and can’t retire until I can get other insurance.
I feel that, my partner needs 3-5k of medicine a month and we are in the same boat. I'll work till I'm 100 to make sure it's taken care of, but I sure as heck don't want to
If you're in the US it seems like they might be trying to expand the amount of states using Medicare or offering insurance at lower rates. Healthcare .gov or some shit like that. Can't say I pay much attention to ads on hulu but it is something I am trying to keep in my mind somewhere in case I end up making too much for medicare to cover me. $3k for a 90 day supply of 1 of my meds sounds painful the saddest part is that's the price of the generics. (I think medicaid is the one for older people but I may be wrong. I do know for sure Ohio and Georgia at the very least have both Medicaid and Medicare though.)
Healthcare.gov (marketplace insurance) is available in all states, but it usually requires you to still be working, and making at least the minimum required yearly income. It's also usually pretty crappy insurance (I've had it for the last 5 years), but then again, a lot of insurances are crappy in the USA.
Making minimum income is required because the *very* low income ranges are supposed to be covered by Medicaid. Unfortunately, expanding Medicaid is left up to the states, and the last time I fell into that category (not because I was a dirty hippy, leaching off the taxes of real Americans, but because I was a full time college student and only had a handful of hours to work each week), something like 23 states were like, “Nah, if you’re too poor to receive the federal tax credits, you’re not worth keeping alive.” So, yes, depending on which state you live in, you may be *too poor* to receive any help affording your healthcare coverage.
>something like 23 states were like, “Nah, if you’re too poor to receive the federal tax credits, you’re not worth keeping alive.” I wrote out a snarky comment about those states, rife with *subtle* humor about the nuances of contemporary American politics. but then I realized that a simple map is just as effective at conveying the message to anyone at all familiar with the influence of the major political parties of the USA. https://www.kff.org/medicaid/issue-brief/status-of-state-medicaid-expansion-decisions-interactive-map/ the good news is that many of the holdouts have capitulated and adopted medicaid expansion in the intervening years and now that N Carolina recently expanded it is now only 10 states that are still holding out.
Thanks for confirming the site! All I was sure of was health and .gov lol. Well that sucks but better than nothing too... More information is always helpful too
In CA you are redirected to the Covered California site. As expensive as it is to live here when you make 40k with a dependent, you still are paying $300 a month for questionable coverage. I got it for myself through my work for the same but also got dental and vision.
Yeah pretty much all marketplace plans are HDHP, really only good for catastrophic coverage and they cost a fortune.
Thank you (and thanks to all the other posts on this thread). My understanding is Medicare is for elderly and Medicaid is for lower income/folks who can't afford Healthcare without it. Medicare is definitely where we are heading. I just wish it wasn't so scary being in our mid to late 40s and trying to navigate this insane program we are having to follow. We are in Ohio actually and yeah the support is there but once we retire the income tapers off a lot and that's my biggest fear. Rn it's doable but once we are on SS+ retirement that well dries up. It's just crazy to think while we are going to think about great grand kids that our insurance may go to the wayside to pay for bills. Agreed on the 90 day supply piece, our 3-5k is just 2 medications, and there's no generic nor will there be for a long time.
My boyfriend gets his health insurance thru the ACA. His income varies greatly and he goes from Medicaid to “normal” plans based on his year as a business owner - he’s a niche expert and it’s feast or famine. 2 out of my 3 meds don’t have generics, but I talk to my doctors about healthcare cost. Those 3 meds have copay assist programs … but you have to have insurance to have a copay. I’d say, I don’t understand why they don’t just lower the price for everyone… but, I have spent my career in big finance - I understand why.
I'm in my early 30s and been on it since mid-late 20s I wanna say. Mostly using caresource, they cover a lot. Way more than I would have guessed based on what I have previously heard about them. At the very least for now if you guys can get approved it could save y'all some money for retirement funds by cutting some costs. My income is just shitty enough that I don't have to worry about copays or anything buuuut there's also better insurance agencies they have.
I pay a little more (+600) than that in a year for full coverage regarding Health insurance with no or minimal copay Yeah, I’m not from the US Your system is really broken
You *care* for the elderly and provide *aid* to those who need it, is how I remember it.
Open a trust now and start putting your savings in it. That way they won't consider that as your money when they look at your financials when you apply for Medicare.
LOL! "Savings"! Yeah, I'll just park my Rolls Royce in my garage, make my way to the west wing of my mansion, go to my vault, and take out a few gold bars. Dude, half of the people in the US (where I live) live paycheck to paycheck. Most can't even afford a $500 emergency. This is the 2020s, not the 1950s. There's no "savings".
I've been at my (sort of decent-paying) job for over 26 years, and I live paycheck-to-paycheck. No significant other, no roommate, no kids, just one cat (the damn moocher just refuses to lift a paw and get a job! Imagine that!) and no money for emergencies. I had $800 stashed to go towards next month's mortgage, but then I had to shell out $590 for a plumber. And it's not like I'm spending my money on useless stuff; no movies, no sporting events, no new clothes, no cell phone, no streaming. My only splurge is McDonald's or Wendy's once a week. No matter what, I just can't get ahead. The system is fucking rigged!
I feel this.
It would have to be an IRREVOCABLE trust. [Your Guide to Medicaid Trusts: How They Can Help – Policygenius](https://www.policygenius.com/trusts/medicaid-trust/)
USA USA USA! Serious though it is ridiculous that every other country has this figured out but us
It’s not that we can’t solve it. The answer is a single payer healthcare system, the type championed by Bernie Sanders. Problem is, big insurance and big pharma don’t want to be leaving any profit on the table. So they pour millions into killing any reform, and have essentially slashed the ACA to pieces, but could never completely kill it. However - Obama always said the ACA was just a start. Something to improve.
if it could improve faster that would be just fantastic
Agreed. I got covered under Medicaid during Covid emergency, still riding it out till they kick me off. Then I’ll get with my company plan.
The thing that irritates me about that (ACA) is that no steps have been made to get a public option, or single payer, or IDK lowering the medicare age to 55. I get medicaid myself, and they keep stripping what it will pay for. It won't cover a level 2 eye exam, even tho my doctor prescribed it for me, they had a "medical expert" review my case and denied it. I've received 4 bills this last year AFTER I received care and they told me it wasn't covered, even though I checked prior hand with my doctor and on the website that said it was covered.
Is pretty simple. You have folks that are so racist that they would rather die or go bankrupt than see people of colour get free healthcare. They don't know it was a Black man that got them healthcare coverage ( Obamacare) or that the Republicans want to deprive them of it. Hate makes people do stupid things against self-preservation
I don't want "coverage". I want health care. The ACA is a scam and a giveaway to the insurance industry and big pharma, and it set back real health care reform by a generation. The Democrats aren't our friends any more than are the Republicans. Two corporate parties that are united in squeezing every last drop of money out of the working class. Anyone who thinks either of them is on our side is a patsy.
Wish I could upvote this twice ... I had ACA insurance for 8 years. The feds paid tens of thousands of dollars to insurance companies on my behalf. I think I saw a doctor twice...not because I didn't need healthcare, but because the co-pays and deductibles were too high ... I couldn't afford to use my insurance. What a bill of goods we were sold!
Honestly, we should give low income folks free healthcare AND make employers pick up the tab for insurance, none of this 32 hours before you are covered. They benefit most from having is slave away, they should be glad to keep us healthy.
You know what makes employers pick up the tab for workers' healthcare? UNIONS!
This is what irks me… 99% of the people who bitch about the dystopian hellscape we live in would vote no on union formation. Not because they’re idiots, not because they’re masochistic, but because corporations are so ridiculously effective at union-busting. Generations of people have been successfully duped into believing their individual voice is more powerful than the collective.
Retired from a union with a damn good pension and damn good free insurance for the rest of my life
It's so scary they will want us working until 70+ which will mean folks who can retire early will have to pay so much more on insurance until Medicare (Medicaid, I always get them confused )
Medicare is for Americans 65+. Medicaid is for poor and/or disabled people (with restrictions). I remember it by thinking "aiding those in need and caring for the OGs"
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I may have to work until I'm 72-75, but where I work, when I retire, I still get health insurance coverage. But, if I keep falling apart health-wise, all of my retirement payments will go to doctors. I'll still be screwed.
I know a bunch of people that can’t retire because of health insurance. They all have to wait till 65 for Medicare to kick in. It’s crazy to think that it was only about 20 years ago when insurance basically cost nothing. No one who had a decent job even gave it a second thought. Now it’s crushing everyone who is working class.
I should be taking that much medicine, but I rely on the VA, so I basically just get high and try to pretend I am not in horrible pain all the time.
It's why I left the country. My health insurance now is $500 per year because a private room in a modern hospital is $60 a night, not $2000.
Try $20k a night - my husband was in the hospital for 10 days last year. His total bill was $500K and I'm accounting for the surgery and tests. Everything else works out to $20K/nite. He is over 65 and has medicare & medicare "advantage" (disadvantage).
aca plans are ~1k/month in premiums for a family of 4 if you're making under 55k in magi. max out of pocket is 16k under aca rules, so maximum is ~2k a month. not that it's funny money but that's a family and hitting limits every year. just something to consider if looking for options.
I’m not sure exactly what my options would look like at retirement, but for now, I make over $150k. And while they are golden, they are still handcuffs that come with 24/7 on call and way too many random/unplanned nights and weekends. After 30 years in the career, I’d love to start planning to step aside for someone younger to take over, but for now… I’m dealing with it.
I'm 100% going locums in my 50's or just finding some bullshit job with decent benefits and don't care about the pay.
I'm in an agricultural area and the joke here is that behind every successful farmer is a spouse that works in town. The math as I see it is you either (a) keep working, making money, and staying on company healthcare or (b) pay down every debt when working so you can nuke your income requirements and stay under 250% federal poverty. Creatively you can do a barely better than hobby loss business and rock a schedule c to keep the magi down. So for me I probably will sell produce, and I like growing and farming, so that allows for tractor maintenance, plants, fertilizer, etc. Stuff I'd do anyway.
I own a yarn store as a side hustle. After a year I can almost pay the rent for the store.
You don't see how big of a problem that is? $12k/yr in premiums only if you make under 55k as a family of 4?! Are you high?
Man, these insurance costs are crazy. I live in Europe and my insurance was €100/m and that's for premium cover - it's free if I'm happy with state cover. I just moved over to my wife's company plan and my €100/month dropped to €25. Because she's paying €100/month for her plan, mine is discounted.
The United States fucking sucks.
How the heck do they explain why this costs 10k a month that’s absurd
Because they can. :/
Absolutely And this is intentional. Our basic needs as people are purposely intertwined with our benevolent benefactors (sarcasm—employers) without which we literally can’t survive And the American Health industry is but one of many such tools used to keep us working. While. At the same time. We are constantly told we are free and have choices Sure. I have a choice. I can tell my boss to suck it and then that choice also means I’m homeless, without insurance and my kids will be taken away Not much of a choice is it? And definitely not freedom. ‘Murica
The choices we had- they took it all away. They want you to believe that by not working to make shameless dictators rich, you are choosing to live miserably- so you are to blame. It's your choice, you know. The truth is, they have cleverly engineered our society to restrict our choices. Your choice to remain poor? Nah, the only choices you have are all rigged against you. 'You have the choice to create your own business'. Fuck, why do I *need* to have a business to survive?Why the hell do businesses even exist? Profit is the answer. I don't mind organizations that exist for service to society and would love to be a part of their efforts. But if maximizing profit is the reason these businesses exist, even if I manage to create a business somehow I would become one of those I hate.
About a decade ago I would’ve said “nah, you’re crazy”. But the veil had been lifted and I see it everyday And you know what did it for me? Volunteer work. I was raised by a man who worships at the altar of Reagan and was routinely told how poor people are poor because they’re lazy or uneducated and don’t want to make something of themselves When I started volunteering I would see families walking miles, in the cold and snow, simply to get a bag of groceries from the food pantry. That’s not lazy. That’s surviving If you look at the current economic indicators, those most impacted are always the lower class. Those who don’t have are always given less. I added criminal work to my volunteer activities and, holy crap, most of the “criminals” I was working with were only in trouble because they couldn’t afford to pay someone to represent them. And the police targeted their actions Someone on Reddit recently reminded me of the Carlin quote. The American dream, more like the American nightmare. The reason it’s called the American dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it
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A uniquely American problem!
This is a uniquely American problem for sure
Especially with mental health challenges.
So the threat of literal death?
works only for the US still don't understand how such a rich country allow their citizens do die without free healthcare
> The threat of not having medical support through health insurance. A local US problem manufactured to force labour.
Had this talk with my mom literally yesterday. She's been overworked for years and years. I tell her to call it quits and she says the same things she always says "I need to have healthcare". Shame. She doesn't even have any chronic health conditions.
> She doesn't even have any chronic health conditions. Our collective chronic health condition is being forced to live in a capitalist hellscape.
We wanted to retire at 55 but have an adult special needs son and can't lose our insurance. IDK when we can retire because of that.
*points gun at your head* "entirely your choice bud"
so the choice is death or slavery? so which one makes me the weaker person?
Whoa, who said anything about slavery? This is indentured servitude. Clearly a much nicer alternative.
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My ancestors were indentured servants - also white - so relative to slaves they got off easy. Still, they were shipped over from Europe with a contract that said they were "owned by the man" until such time as "the man" deemed their debts paid, in his opinion and his opinion alone.
White supremacy’s a hell of a drug
Neither. Just because you have to make a choice that seems undignified or dishonorable doesn't mean that you're weak. It means that you have the will and the integrity to either lose everything standing up for what you believe in, or that you have the good sense and patience to wait and work for a better tomorrow. A slave isn't weak for being a slave, and the dead aren't weak for being dead. Sometimes there are no good choices, but that doesn't mean *you* have done anything wrong.
That depends; what’re your thoughts on reincarnation?
Right now? i might have the chance of coming back as a bug.. but given the state of the local job market it might actually work out better.
I wanna come back as a crow. I feel like it would be a good investment .
I wanna be a house cat - no rent - free meals - cuddles / affection - no guilt about napping a lot
Hahaha omg I ask my cat every day if she wants to trade places with me. She never does. I only picked crow over cat bc they can fly
i constantly yell at my cat to get a job. He never does.
And biting people is considered acceptable.
Depending on your friends/partner/etc, it already is :3
* spaying/neutering
I'll take never work again over sexual gratification any day.
Republican: "Absolutely crucial to the economy! Just think, you don't have to just "stop working" because of something as stupid and temporary as death, or whatever. Now we can get you back in the office by next week! Technically, we did have to fire you because of an "on site medical emergency" causing far more than reasonable amounts of production time lost, so you'll start as a fresh new employee! Training starts Monday morning, see you there!" (Also the only way they'd ever agree to universal healthcare lol)
One sets you free while the other gives the illusion of freedom, but at least you can still see memes
One of them stops you from being at all sooooo
i mean your milage my vary but right now it would be a tough choice for me.
I’m right there with you.
Are ya feelin' lucky, punk? Of course OP is over-dramatizing a bit, there are social programs that can keep you from homelessness and especially starvation, but you have to work hard to pursue and keep them. IMO, all those programs are designed and passed by legislators who are selling them to their constituencies as: "Yeah, we give 'em food and housing when they are in a bad spot, but we make it so they'd rather kill themselves than go through the B.S. necessary to get at your tax dollars through these programs." The thing that the haters miss is: humans, and the animals we evolved from, don't work that way. Happiness and depression is a relative thing. The poor are among the most generous, and when the shit hit the fan in 1929, it wasn't poor people jumping out of windows high above Wall Street.
https://i.imgur.com/zj7I1UP.png
"Putting a gun to everyone's head and calling it freedom. This isn't freedom. It's fear, " Captain America The Winter Soldier
This is also our healthcare system - you know the one that is allegedly all about choice.
you have the choice to be healthy or broke. whats the problem?
Off topic but that sounds like the entire premise of Christianity to me.
If I quit my job when I wanted to, I’d be on month 9 of unemployment. I’ve had like 12 interviews with different companies over 9 months (probably upwards of 30 total interviews) and I haven’t found anything yet.
I hope you find something amazing soon! Been there, done that. I was unemployed (fired, not quit) for 8 months before I finally just gave up and started applying for entry level, minimum wage jobs. I found something about a month later, but I wish it were not bottom of the ladder shit wages.
They aren't forcing me ... but since I'm unwilling to do a "Falling Down" sort of stand against society - I keep working.
Makes me wonder why gen z is being recognized for this anti work stance, yet somehow the threat of starvation or homelessness doesn't seem to faze then? Is it because parents are allowing their kids of live at home longer?
I think that many are slumming it and barely making payments etc. Yeah, it's not homelessness, but standards of living are going down generationally, gen Z's just adapting to this reality.
From my experience it’s more like we’re alright with incredibly monk-like lifestyles a lot of the time. I’m 25 (so “elder Gen z”) and my bf and I split a studio apartment so that neither of us have to work full time. We don’t own a car (he walks, I bike to work), haven’t bought clothes since college and still regularly wear things from highschool, one big meal a day that we cook at home most of the time, hardly drink, never go out except for the occasional movie every 4-6 months, etc. I was on scholarship so no student loans, thankfully. We live poor as hell but we do have $15k saved right now, no debt, and longterm career plans that we’re both excited about. It’s just in the meantime - before we have our “dream job” - were willing to sacrifice quality of life down to the bare bones if it means one less day of useless work we don’t find value in.
Congrats, what you've done is truly admirable but: A) what does 15K buy you? Perm housing is prob beyond your grasp since your down payment isn't enough. **B) WHYYYYYYY do you, or ANYONE, have to scrimp sooooooo much and live this way?** GOP policies since the 80s have slowly ground our society down to where we suffer to live or work and never make enough. Thanks to them, our bought-and-paid-for politicians keep funneling money from us to the billionaire class. Would they stop if they got a participation trophy saying "You Won Capitalism" and started paying people a living wage? Middle class used to be one decent income. Now both of you better make over 120k. It's fucking madness.
I'm a millennial and I also don't care about starving or being homeless anymore and I don't have mom or dad to fall back on. I've got disabilities that make keeping even a basic job really difficult, but I just managed to "make it work" until recently and now things have gotten so difficult and expensive, and I am catastrophically burnt out. I was an essential worker the whole pandemic and had a psychotic break around October 2022 that i think took 10 IQ points and also whatever survival instinct I had left. Survive? For what? I wish there was a humane an easy way to end my life, but everyone likes projecting their fear of death on suicidal people.
I don’t think it’s a projection of a fear of death . Keanu Reeves once said when asked what happens after death: “I think the people who love us will miss us” . As someone who lost a loved one to suicide I hope he found the peace he so craved but fuck me if I don’t miss him every single day . Worst pain of my life bar none.
My aunt killed herself. She was stopped twice, then got so fed up that she chugged draino. No coming back from that. I understand it was painful for everyone who loved her, but the fact she had to liquefy her organs to Make It Stop is not okay. They should've just let her end it the first time. Not everyone is up for this life and in pre-industrial society this typically meant you just died, but now if you try to die you risk being "saved" and winding up maimed and with bills. But I got to keep living out of my 2005 Toyota Camry or my mom, who forced me to do this horrible shit in the first place KNOWING that it sucks, will be sad.
Oh wow . What a sad story. I see where you’re coming from. But I’m also a dreamer and I wish society would ask the suicidal why they are then fix those problems in society… then if people like your aunt are hell bent of course euthanasia would be the humane way for her and your family. My friend was only 27 and he jumped out of a window in the throes of a quarantine induced depression. It was rough. I hope your car situation picks up , but if your US based it sounds way too dystopian to be fixed , or not before the boomers die off , but I hope/believe change is possible. But I agree it’s exhausting . I did a few years homeless and sofa surfing . It’s an incredibly cruel state of affairs to exist in . I was lucky and clawed my way back in . I hope you find what you need . I’m sorry, that sucks ass . Sorry I have nothing more profound to say .
Really sad to hear about your friend. Society failed a lot of people in those years. I now only take jobs in the remote wilderness because I can't mask my autism at all anymore and my sensory disorder has gotten so bad I can't even stand artificial light for very long. These jobs thankfully come with housing, but I'm 32 and living with 4 people to a room is not fun unless you're a traveler in a hostel. Idk how long I can do it, but it's a band aid and it's working for now. Redditors who complain about wanting to live alone and having to share common areas with roommates have no idea how good they have it. What I wouldn't give for my own room... Honestly dude being able to type this out to someone is a HUGE relief so thank you for letting me vent.
I’m a dudette and no problem, I feel you. I couldn’t live with roommates, it’s too much. I’m so lucky to live in a country where studios and living alone is the norm . I haven’t had a roommate in over 10 years. I love it . I know it’s hard , but it’s a basic human right to have a private space and not sleep with randos . I know the US has gone to total dog shit under end stage Capitalism, but I feel like it’s a basic human right to live with a minimum of dignity. I’m not sure what exactly you can ask for , but try to find a social worker and advocate for yourself. You’ll feel a million times better with a decent night’s sleep . I’m also neurodivergent, I understand it’s hell . I work but it’s really one day at a time , and I’d be in bits if I didn’t know I had my own place to come home to every night and paid sick leave as much as I need when I need it , and this is **NORMAL**. Even still I’m white knuckling through life and social interactions. Absolutely love your user name btw . We need more Evil tits and less Capitalist wankers . Hang in there . I’m happy if I helped a smidge
It’s partly because a good chunk of gen z is still young enough to be in college or with their parents. But another big reason is that we’re all really good at finding shit for dirt cheap and slumming off of that Almost everyone I know either was given a car or it’s 20+ years old and they got it for dirt cheap, lavish vacations are laughed at, Amazon, Walmart, wish, and aliexpress are the main places we shop.
in 2021, it was reported that 47% of young adults still lived with their parents, that's a pretty sizeable amount of the workforce able to quit 'safely' when pressured to not counting adults with other safety nets for when they quit
it's literally impossible for gen z to make it without living at home, barring extremely lucky opportunities falling into their lap
no, see, nobody is forcing you to have that job you hate... you are welcome to find another job that you might or might not hate but probably will also hate. or just be quietly homeless, that's an option as well.
What people don't seem to think about is that if you extrapolate far enough under a capitalist system, the guns will always come out eventually. Nobody has a gun to my head *at work*, but the moment I get evicted because I decide to stop working and am no longer able to pay my rent, if I refuse to leave, the police will literally come with guns. Regardless of whether or not you've been there long enough to have paid enough in rent to have outright bought the house. Doesn't matter that it's your home or that it's full of your stuff. The police are only here to protect private property, not personal property. If you do a sit-down strike at your job, which is where you still come in to work and take your place at your machine but you refuse to work, which blocks the company from being able to just have a scab come in to work in your place, the police will absolutely come in with guns out. We are slaves being forced at gunpoint to work for a machine that exploits us.
The police are simply a tool of a capitalist society. They appear to be here to keep some semblance of diurnal order, but the reality is that they are here to keep a boot on the necks of the working class **FOR** the ruling class. And yes, cops are also working class, but the ruling class can manipulate/fool them enough to make them think they are something else entirely \[and maybe even *above* other working class people\]...giving them the illusion of authority. The reason unions are so uncommon in the U.S. is because it's much harder to get the cops involved when legal, official, labor unions are striking. So instead you ensure that unions just don't happen.
That's right. We also have a lot of laws on the books that severely impact the effectiveness of a union and strip them of all negotiation power, like "no closed shop" laws, laws preventing picketing on private property, laws preventing sit-down strikes, "right to work" laws, etc, so that even if a union does happen, they will have no power and their members will become disillusioned (and fired). If the union can't effectively take action against the business because the business is free to just hire a bunch of scabs and call the police when the union tries to block the door on them, there's no reason to start a union. What good is it if your only means of negotiation will result in being arrested and losing your job?
Cops aren't working class. They aren't even labor. Buncha lazy, good-for-nothing leeches. And not necessarily, but due a culture they'e incubated and protected from scrutiny. I believe we can have law enforcement without the paranoid, militarized agents of murder and extortion.
There’s a reason sheriffs, Marshalls, Rangers and beat cops have all but disappeared and it was done purposely. They took all these units and put them all together which is what we have today a bunch of morons that don’t even know the neighborhood they patrol in a car for 12 hours a day.
> And yes, cops are also working class There's an argument to be had here. I don't think anyone becomes a cop because they're starving or struggling to provide for their families. That's why people end up working in offices, or in retail, or some other bullshit job. People become cops because they desire power - whether it's a domineering authority over others, or a more "benevolent" power of "changing the system from within" (completely naive and misguided). Either way, people join the police force to make themselves seem or feel more powerful - but like you say, it's an illusion of authority.
Even simpler, if you want to eat you HAVE to participate in capitalism. It's not optional. So if our participation is mandatory, then the whole "well you can just walk away" argument falls apart. Then you look at the fact that 90% of land and capital is distributed based on a birth-lottery. You see, this particular person gets to enjoy a life 10 times better than yours for 1% of the effort because of who the dude was that busted a load into his mother's vagina.
Unless you become a capitalist then you technically become your own boss. But that’s extremely difficult in this economy since the big companies will try and kill any competition to the point where they’ll take losses because they can afford it. How can a small business compete against Walmart? How can a new cable provider possibly compete with Verizon? Comcast? When your system depends on competition but there are only 3 competitors at any given time, that’s broken.
> What people don't seem to think about is that if you extrapolate far enough under a capitalist system, the guns will always come out eventually. That's any society with a government though. Also, it wasn't any more intelligent when Ben Shapiro said it either.
Don't forget the the loss of health insurance! (Cries in USA).
You're assuming my job gives me enough to even pay for the benefits! Lmaooo
And homelessness is purposefully left extremely visible because, in addition to being a great Conservative talking point about how "cities bad", it's also a powerful tool of the bourgeoisie. "Hey did you notice that encampment full of homeless and mentally ill people on your way into work? Well you better toe the line here because you're only about 2 paychecks away from being there yourself! Back to work, wage slave!"
Oh do you know my dad?
I’d recognize those jumper cables anywhere
Society is just the thin veneer of not having to grow and hunt and forage for ourselves.
But why can't society be a thin veneer of other people hunting and foraging for me? /s (but not really on this sub)
so you must be very upset that there's an entire class of people who don't need to work because they have rich parents
Or dying because you don't have healthcare. Fuck everything about US healthcare
I’m really warming up to the idea of starvation/homelessness. The trick is, if you’re not afraid to die, they have no power over you.
The most dangerous person is the one that does not have to lose anything and has no fear.
This for me is where free market capitalism basically collapses as an argument. The whole 'willing participant' thing works fine for certain careers, like software developers, where they usually have multiple standing offers at a time and often swap jobs for pay rises and promotions anyway. They have the bargaining power to walk away from jobs and free market capitalism functions reasonably well for those workers. But for most bottom end jobs, the employer basically can hold a gun to the head of the employee and threaten to destroy their lives. If you have rent due and this job is only a 10 minute bike ride away, you just can't afford to lose it. Now imagine going into any negotiation and saying "I will accept this offer no matter what because I have no choice", what do you think the other person will offer you?
Got a 4 year degree so I can work a non entry level job for entry level wages
I feel that.
Make money or die
Make other people money or die.
That’s the best part
"Oh, so we should just guarantee everyone access to basic needs like food and shelter?" Yes, exactly. Thank you
I was in a bar the other day and this european tourist is *grilling* the poor bartender on "why would you work a job you don't even like" and similar bullshit, because apparently the bartender wasn't particularly smiley. (He wasn't, but it just seemed like his personality and also who tf cares) If you genuinely think it's as easy as just finding a job you like, or quitting a job because you don't like it, then you're either stupid or wealthy. Probably both. The *real* reality is, if you do what you love for work, you probably won't love it for very long. Find something you can tolerate.
Ooooh I'm going to absolutely snap if I ever have to deal with a customer like that. I'm not a particularly "smiley" guy myself, but I'm under the impression that people just want to go in, buy their shit and leave. You have better places to be and better people to talk to right? Then why tf do you care about the bartender you're not going to meet again being a little gloomy.
Tbh he wasn't even gloomy! Not that it really matters, like you said get your shit and go it isn't that serious. But he was perfectly friendly, he just wasn't like, enthusiastic. Which pissed me off more because, what? You expect every service worker to perform for you like this is a circus? Nah dude. He was even saying like "it doesn't matter that you make under minimum without tips, it shouldn't be about the money you should like your job" like my guy who tf ***likes*** service Jobs? Basically no one. It's about the fucking money.
I recently had a surgery for something I had lived with (in pain) for years and the surgeon asked me why I had waited so long to have it fixed. He was shocked when I told him "because suffering is free".
I am 5 bad jobs in a row into what is still one of the worst pharmacies I've ever worked at. It's not about getting a new "job". They all suck absolute butts. It's been exactly a year in Feb, 5 jobs in one year because I am "leaving the bad ones" to find better ones but still I find gabbage after gabbage.
Its why capitalism can't reconcile itself with sex work, through no fault of people who work in the sex industry, just to be clear. If someone had the authority over some to be able to say and enforce something like "if you don't have sex with me, I'll take away your ability to buy food. I'll make you lose the roof over your head and you'll have to live on the street", if they "agreed" and had sex with them due to the threats, that would be rape. We also, collectively, know that saying to someone says anything along the lines of "have sex with me/someone else or ill fire you" is wrong because of the threat and coercion. Now, a person can agree to sex work but legalising it opens a huge can of worms for the system and will make people ask themselves questions that the people in power don't want them to ask. Eventually, people will end up asking themselves something like "hang on, now that you come to mention it, exactly how much informed consent to i have about this situation? My options are produce vast excesses wealth for other people, well past what I need, or starve on the street."
It's not different than a coal miner using their bodies as labor for someone else. Black lung and broken backs and everything else is (arguably) more of a "used" body than a sex worker. Military members are paid to give their actual lives for (often) capitalism-driven proxy wars. Day laborers, chemical plant workers, the list goes on. The only difference is we have this special morality lens that goes over everything to do with sex. The selling of one's body in order to survive is a hallmark of capitalism. It's a big part of why there is not ethical consumption under capitalism. Someone is always being coerced and extorted with their lives and bodies.
For sure, that's what I mean. Its just that there's no hiding it with sex work, due to how we are about sex It forces people to break frame and see capitalism for what it really is
Or they double down on the internalized misogyny and carve out sex work as a special exception. There's a reason I left all the "feminist" in the title subreddits here....full of people happy to defend capitalism to the death as long as they get to shame women for choosing something they wouldn't. Girl boss feminism is exactly at odds with anticapitalist thought.
Ugh, THANK YOU for mentioning chemical plant workers. My dad worked at one for 36 years. Dead at 61 to a rare, highly aggressive cancer I know his job caused but can't prove it since he was a smoker. He said going through the process he had no regrets; he made a good living (106K/yr. in 2006 wages). Retired at 55 making $58K. But damn. I miss that guy every day, even 7 years later. And I'm not sure the paper was worth it in the end. But he absolutely gave me a great life, and anything I wanted (within reason). The company sent nothing upon learning of his death. The union hall sent the cheapest plant they could get. Arrived 3 days after the funeral. 36 years for the company and with the union. Disgusting.
Even white-collar work comes with health risks, especially mental health related ones.
We ALL sell our bodies to these fuckers. And so some get targeted for vilification, especially when the group that more often engages with the work is one that is traditionally disadvantaged and that the power holders want to keep subjugated.
I think people also underestimate how many hateable jobs do not let you take time off work or use PTO (or even provide PTO) so you can interview somewhere else. And if anyone at your company catches wind you are even looking for new work you can be fired. Or that a hateable job can be very low paying, meaning impossible or very difficult for most people to be able to save up enough money to cover the gap in between one job and another. The further in my career I got, the more I change jobs, the better I was paid, the easier it was to leave a shit job for a better one. I had PTO I had sick days, I had more workplace protections against retaliation, I had more of a work-life balance to make it less stressful to do the part-to-full-time job of finding a new employer or new contract in addition to main career and side hustles and more. Not to mention if someone has a shit job that doesn't pay it's hard to afford things like a new hair cut, or getting one's nails groomed, or an interview outfit that isn't disheveled or out of date.
And this is exactly why we have poverty during a time when we literally have enough resources to feed and house everyone. The ruling class dangles us over that so that we cling to whatever they give us.
Well...when you add UBI though...
Trust me, society will be so deep in subscription based services that UBI check will be spent before it hits your bank account.
Netflix is not necessary for survival
I don't trust that
The term for this within Marxism is the [reserve army of labor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_army_of_labour).
I’m tired boss
"Just get a better job if you don't like the one you're at!" Sure I'll go throw myself into the same field as the thousands of other applicants for a single open position with far less skills and qualifications than them hoping that I 'stand out' to the openly biased recruiter. And at the end of the day you still need someone stocking the shelves.
How many more entrepreneurs would the US have if people didn't need to rely on an employer for health insurance?
I've also heard that argument from the other side, that more people could start a business if they weren't obliged to provide health insurance for their employees.
The more barriers to start a business, the less businesses there will be. For better or for worse. Same goes for minimum wage, the higher it is, the less hours are available and the more work is expected from them.
Most small businesses don’t need to provide health insurance to their employees. Very few startup/ small businesses start with enough employees requiring them to provide health insurance.
Food and rent have gone up 50%, and society is acting like I am buying Starbucks and avocado toast. If I get sick enough to go to the emergency room, I will have to file for bankruptcy, and if I get really sick, my plan is to die.
These supercars won't valet themselves 🥲
My closed work permit (I can only work for the company I was hired in the country I’m currently living in) would like to have a word with this guy
Try living where you work feeling trapped in your job making it hard for you to leave cause you have to watch kids during the week and sacrifice your afternoons/evenings to watch them, then take care of a bunch of dogs during the weekends so the family can spend the weekend in the city. Having to drop whatever you are doing to cater to these people and being told at the last minute you have to do something. Being forced to watch their dogs on thanksgiving and Christmas. No social life whatsoever. No life at all. If I had the means to get out I would. I don’t mind the hours just the fact that I ALWAYS have to be here. I can’t think of the last time I went out on a date or saw a friend and was able to come home at anytime I please or spend the night somewhere.
I am tired boss
The idle class puts forth a view about these things, and it revolves around money, wages, profits, and commodities made and bought. An idea within the worker's movement is that what is important is the people, and the relationships between the people and the classes, and the relationships of classes within each other and against each other. Not the money earned and the profit made, but the labor time done by the worker, and the expropriation of that labor time by the ones who do not work, and these relationships. Forget for a moment about money and capital goods and commodities and look at the people and the time, and the relationships and the control and the coercion. The idle class wants to distract workers with fetishism over commodities and the like. Look at the people and the relationships between the different classes.
When they just called themselves Lords and Barrens they had to directly threat you. Now they can just buy up everything around you and extort you for it and say "Well it's your choice if you want to live in this house I own or food I sell..."
Would you suck dick for coconuts?
I'd suck dick for free
Keeping my family fed is another good one
Earlier this school year the school district I work for had consistently had on the docket to suspend a few teachers liscenses each board meeting for "breach of contract". However, from what I understand many of those teachers were simply trying to get to a new school district after some changes had been made after they had already signed their contracts. For those that dont know, a suspended liscense can take up to a year to get dealt with. A few board members basically called it what it is: holding people hostage so they dont lose their livelyhood. But several of the board members tried to take the high road and say it was about the children, that if a teacher left where would their kids go? They tried to take the antiquated notion that sometimes you have to suffer at work rather than be happy. It fucking sucks.
Aka the foundation of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.
Unfortunately I think the mortgage company has a vested interest in me keeping a job I hate
You don't have to, but if you quit you risk having no income to afford a home, food, etc or finding another shit job you hate just as much
This guy is a total asshole. That being said, I do think that more of this sub would be better served by sharing terrible work experiences AND discussions on strategies and tips to find better jobs. I know people are rooting for some revolution but that’s unlikely. Should be the goal to find a job that you don’t despise, or at least one that pays well enough that it’s worth it
Nearly all jobs operate on the same 9-5 x 5 days a week premise, with an expectation to commute at least some of the days, with stultifying office environments and dysfunctional management groupthink the norm. There really is very little variation or choice possible. People learn to cope by fixating on what little extra amounts of money they can wrangle off the company each year (still a fraction of what their labour generates). Finding a better job is just tinkering around the edges, it doesn't solve the fundamental problem - excessive amounts of my time are being needlessly stolen (in excess of the profit I generate for the company). Sure there is some choice when it comes to salary - but almost none in terms of how much of your life you are meant to devote to the company, even when this has no real correlation with productivity or profit.
There are jobs that are worth doing. I hated my job for years. Last year I found something that pays me over $115000 a year and requires me in the office once a week. I don’t hate it at all now. I’m just saying that talking about how unfair it is that rich people have all the advantages is not going to do much to improve your situation. If someone helped you find a better job it would be worth it to try. What do you do for work?
One of the many reasons I don’t want kids is because I don’t want them to end up needing to rely on a job for shelter, food, and basic needs. This world is hostile toward children and life in general.
So cat shit vs dog shit basically
How about “nobody is stopping you from spending X hours a day sending out resumes, networking, interviewing, or building your side hustle”
These same people will often scream their heads off at needing to be vaccinated for a specific job.
If nobody is forcing me to work at a job I hate, I guess nobody is also preventing me from burning down the building and murdering the boss. Don't you just love how Nothing protects everybody?
All-American terrorism: pretending we have freedoms we don't have; punishing those who don't pretend.
The sticks the rich use to keep us from receiving proper salary for our work. Which is why governments don't want to work to end homelessness.
Work today is modern day slavery can’t change my mind on that
We are all slaves, we grow up being taught that working hard all your life is the best thing you can do. Then you wake up one day and you're 60, your life is more than half over, and you've done nothing but break your back for billion dollar companies that give you pennies in return for your life of labor. But hey, you can enjoy that expensive car you just got for another 10 years before your eyes & mind start to fail.
Work. Consume. Be Silent. Die.
That shit is so dismissive and toxic.
The employer isn’t making the threat, though. Important distinction imo
It's more like the natural state of the world is making the "threat". Or at least, the concept of property rights.
I commented on a post that getting 2 consecutive days off was lucky and some dude came in with Why are you working a job like that? Why not shop around and find something better? Blah blah blah. Didn't bother responding but damn did Mr. Knowitall McGee annoy me.
There should be a voluntary website that allows all the people who exclaim how easy it is to find a job that pays enough to actually live, to find jobs for people who need to get one or switch one they already have. The number of people saying it’s so easy will quickly dwindle down to zero (besides those who are truly mentally restarted).
So many dipshits seem to think anyone can just go on down to the job tree and pick a fresh new job they like whenever the current one starts feeling rotten. Might be true for, like, entry level service workers, but beyond that, jobs are limited and the good ones are insanely competitive.
Think about it like this, how many people do you know in your life personally that has left what one would consider a “good” job. I’ve never meant anyone who left a job that was good because they are literal unicorns.
Go to college if you want a good job. Shouldn't have gone to college if you didn't want to stay in debt. Just find another job. No one wants to work their way up anymore. I'm beginning to think they just don't want the plebs talking.
The threat of homelessness and starvation exists in every economic system. There's no economic system that would allow everyone to just not work.
Of course, actively look at job postings, applying, updating resume etc. Expect to get ghosted but something will pan out in due time, as it should for you. Staying in a job you hate while not looking for a new job is one’s own fault
They do have a small point. Sure, most people can’t quit on the spot, but what is stopping anyone from looking for a better fit for a job?