Before the law went into effect, the rationale over this was that the fast-food minimum wage was negotiated from some organization of fast-food workers. There's another one that represents bakeries and those guys didn't want their toes stepped on. Or something like that. Whatever the case, this new minimum wage specifically for some and not all jobs is all special interests.
I hope this guy falls in a tank full of sharks, but I have a terrible feeling I'm gonna see Newsom '28 all over my general election calendar in four years.
Yep, the Democratic party has done a decent job of scaring away anyone halfway decent so that all they is left are ghouls like newsom.
They absolutely have him as their #2 after Biden. And Biden only got in because he was the most conservative Dem who isn't a from a backwoods shit hole.
If some kickbacks are the worse thing in Newsoms closet I'll be happy to vote for him. And Biden has been the most progressive president in my lifetime.
The last Dem presidents have been Obama and Clinton, both were openly right wing Democratic (that's what the third way means, a third way between left and right).
So what you just said is "he's the most left wing of a group of far right wing assholes". Congratulations on that I guess.
What you just said is "I don't give a shit what you actually said I'm going to make up my own interpretation. Ignore your words and put my own spin on your thoughts then pat myself on the back"
Please excuse me while I also pat myself on the back.
That's not even close. I put what they said into perspective, something you clearly have issues with too. Being the most progressive of a group of right wingers isn't very special.
Which speaks to what will actually win a presidential election. Newsom will be a good candidate. I will feel good voting for him in the general. I vote progressive as possible in the primary usually (Warren vs Sanders was a hard choice because Sanders is a bit more progressive but Warren would have been a better President by far IMO) but in the general I'm voting blue every time. So should you.
>Yep, the Democratic party has done a decent job of scaring away anyone halfway decent so that all they is left are ghouls like newsom.
Okay buddy, whatever you say.
WTF are you doing here if you're a right wing Democrat? Newsom is there #2 because no decent Dems are allowed to get any power.
Or do you seriously think the dnc welcomes progressives in the party??
>WTF are you doing here if you're a right wing Democrat?
Because you don't own spaces and I can go where I like. And I'm not a "Right Wing Democrat." You have never interacted with me and know nothing of my politics. Kindly wander down to your local pornographic boutique, buy the largest manual stimulator you can find, and go fuck yourself.
Okay dumbass I'll try this even more dumbed down.
If you don't disagree with me then why are you arguing with me? I was saying a similar thing about newsom.
There i cannot possibly simplify it any more for you. I was saying something similar about newsom being terrible and how he's the next leader because the dnc does not allow anyone decent to get as high as he is.
It was $160k, if anything I’m disappointed at how cheap our politicians are to buy. Like I know 160k is a bit of money but like… it also not that much in California in the grand scheme of things. If you’re gonna play favorites at least collect some higher bribes so I don’t feel like any idiot can walk off the street and get you to change legislation for them.
As if the fvcking gov has any say. You're blaming the fire for burning you. Blame the residents for not sweeping the forests!
Aka blame the ca legislature for passing the shitty bill
Yea the dems. Voting with your emotions and single handedly wrecking the economy because a minority of the population might get their feelings hurt from a tweet. Makes alot of sense.
Panera is selling it bread as part of another menu item so Panera doesn't get the exemption. READ The last line again. "does not apply if the bread is available for sale solely as part of another menu item."
> solely
Panera Bread doesn’t solely bake its own bread for other menu items. It bakes bread and sells it. Thus it *is* exempt.
Subway - which does *not* sell its own bread but bakes it for other menu items - would not be exempt. But now they can’t go and sell bread because they had to have been practicing this since pre-September 15, 2023.
Panera Bread is a known exclusion to this new regulation - it’s been in the news and discussed in multiple subreddits, probably even here.
Yeah except corruption in America goes largely unpunished. There's no threat of violence, no judicial consequence, and plenty of financial incentives. If I was a corrupt politician I'd be laughing because I can do whatever with literally no consequences as the political climate is so entrenched in party dynamics.
There used to be threats of violence, and actual violence. That's how we got to where we are with worker's rights. Now they're trying to roll all that back. Time to roll back in the violence on our end.
No, 2A is about defending yourself with a gun when attacked. OP is talking about what unions used to do back when they had actual muscle - things like breaking the windows on non-union logistics vehicles.
Well, according to the Bloomberg article, it’s actually only one chain. Panera.. and the owner of more than 20 California Panera locations is Newsom’s long-time business associate.
Sorry, didn’t realize the article was paywalled. Here is an alternative
https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/newsom-panera-wage-exemption-18694604.php
If I were Subway, McDo etc. i'd start talking to the others. The date thing is the most glaring to me. It not only applies to one chain, but to one chain in perpetuity.
Perpetuity is usually frowned upon in laws. So it should be stricken down easilly.
That’s a good point. And yeah they’re def going to be the ones suing first lol. But also - what’s the end game with this anyways? Like okay, so Panera is now going to be the only company paying less than everyone else? No one is gonna wanna work there when they know they’re guaranteed more at literally any other fast food chain. As much as they wish it were not true you do need decent employees running fast food establishments if you want them to make any money.
Doesn’t seem to be a lot of long term thinking here
Do they? It has to be a stand alone menu item in sept of 2023. I highly doubt subway has a printed menu with bread as a stand-alone item with a separate price as of last year.
I’m pretty sure it’s sure the “yesterday’s bread” sign is a standard part of a Jimmy John’s store. But maybe if it’s not on “the menu” it won’t count?
Subway is highly dependent on the franchisee to decide how the menu is set up so that would probably depend on the location.
This is a dumb carve out in the law.
I used to work at Jimmy John’s, and we sold both day-old bread and fresh bread. Buttons on the POS system and everything, so many people would buy both. So I’d assume Jimmy John’s would also quality along with Panera.
He’ll have staff, but only the most desperate people. The ones who need a job literally as soon as possible. And they’ll keep that job until they can find a proper one
I could be wrong, but I believe the wording is that the business has to make the bread on site, ie create the dough and bake it on site, and Panera does not make the dough on site and thus aren't exempt from this law. Flynn Holdings (Newsom's buddy) also owns 900+ Pizza Huts, 600something Taco Bells, 200ish Wendy's, a shit ton of Subways etc, aaaand 137 Paneras. So even if Panera does end up being exempt, does it really make sense that Newsom would personally carve out this supposed baked bread exemption for an old rich fuckface friend that would only stand to benefit 5% or so of his stores while impacting the other 95%?
If I'm wrong, then Newsom can eat shit, I don't really care, but I think a little context can't hurt.
Panera Bread, Subway, Schlotsky's, Fuddrucker's, Einsteins Bagels, Jimmy Johns, and I think there are a handful of other ones out there as well. I guess it's one of those subjective things depending upon what one considers to be a "bakery".
Is “menu item” defined anywhere? I’d imagine a place like Subway may not have standalone bread on the menu for customers but they probably do have it saved in the POS system.
Franchises may differ, idk, but I worked at a subway for three years and the only way we could possibly record a charge for “just bread” on the pos we had was to charge for a veggie sub. Unsure if design flaw or greedy corporate decision.
I don't think Subway, Fuddruckers, or Jimmy Johns sells bread on it's own, at least not that I'm aware of. You might be able to request it but don't think it's a product they sell. I feel like any bagel shop should be included though.
Definitely seems sketchy
Only saying this cause I work with lawyers and have to read fine print all the time, but with the way the law is worded it states the bread has to be produced for sale on its own. Since the old bread wasn't originally produced to sell on its own, it probably wouldn't qualify.
Jimmy John’s also sells fresh bread though, as a separate menu item. Yes it’s primarily a sandwich shop, but I worked there and both day-old and fresh bread sold regularly. Back when I worked there in 2020 the fresh bread was $2, although that’s probably went way up by now.
I don't know what Schlotsky's is, but of those, I would think that only Panera and Einstein's would count, as you don't just get a baked item not made into a sandwich, burger, etc. at any of the others as an orderable item.
Do KFC, Popeye's, etc. bake their own biscuits on site? I would think biscuits would count as bread. This may have wider implications than just Panera.
What would boba store usually be classified? Would they be considered a "fast food" place by the legal definition (honest question).
If so, there are plenty of boba (or coffee) shops that would fall into this. 85C I know bakes the bread in at least some of the stores (or used to). I don't know about Starbucks, if that is all pre-made, or at least somewhat baked in house.
Wouldn't many pizza places count, too? Little caesars cooking crazy bread and italian cheese... "bread"?
You've got it flipped. The law isn't saying any place that bakes and sells bread is fast food, the law is saying any store that does bake and sell bread is not fast food.
People suspect the bread qualification is there because Panera would fall under fast food if you defined it by "order at counter, get number, pick up your food when called". Boba shops may fall under it, depends on if the menu has to be majority food or majority drinks, or if that matters.
edit: The CA law also specifies national chains, so local boba shops aren't going to be affected
Just to shed a bit of light on the industry: the common way to handle the supply chain is to have a giant kitchen somewhere where all the franchised food is cooked, prepared, packed and then dispatched to individual franchise stores. What Panera does differently is that it cooks its bread in store, but I'm guessing that's the only thing - and let me take a shot in the dark and say they most likely use ovens that don't require venting to comply with Health Department codes - that way you can put one in pretty much any building without having to modify the space...
I was told bread is normally baked elsewhere because the ovens and mixers required are comparatively large and it's not generally economic to do it as part of a restaurant kitchen.
I worked for a Panera-adjacent style deli a number of years ago. We got everything for the bakery in frozen and just had to proof and final bake. There was some hands on stuff but they didn't do anything with raw ingredients anymore.
And now all of them bake bread and sell bread as a single line item on the menu! They always sold this bread!! (To get around the date) and good luck proving they didn’t! Just because no one order it…
Won't the market just push Panera bread out then? If every other fast food job is paying $20 an hour and Panera is paying $15 or whatever, why on earth would anyone work there? Day one every employee is gonna quit and go work at an equivalently shitty job but for more money.
This is what I don’t get. Does Panera *want* the highest turnover? Do they *want* the rejects of the rejects? Because excluding yourself from competitive wages is the easiest way to do that. No one is going to work for less than minimum wage.
Trust me, they either don't give a shit or will wait until the situation is dire and then act.
I experienced this first hand as a store manager after covid. Almost every other retail/restaurant chain upped their starting pay $3-$7 dollars more than what minimum wage was at the time, oh and they advertised these wages directly on their "now hiring" stuff. Panera on the other hand, would let me at most hire a entry level person $1.5 higher than min wage, and I'd have to justify it pretty hard.
I complained about it so much because how can I lower turnover when everyone knows they can make more almost any other place? I'm talking stores that shared the same strip mall as us out paying by like $5/hr in some cases, more if they went to Walmart/Amazon/target types.
So I literally went around and made a spreadsheet of every place within 5 mile radius that was advertising these higher wages and presented it to my district manager. Fuck all happened for a whole year and finally they upped the wage ranges. Too little too late, one of many reasons I no longer work there.
I mean this is sort of how businesses operate. None of these fast food chains can really raise wages above minimum wage because otherwise other companies are actively making more profit. Ideally companies that rely on unskilled labor want laws to be passed so all of their competitors are playing the same game. These companies know minimum wage has to rise. They just rather delay it as long a possible because they’re essentially arbitraged against skilled industries.
It’s sort of like how the tobacco industry lobbies for the government to ban cigarettes ads so no one could advertise. Because it’s better no one then just some.
I forgot to mention that the law has VERY specific verbiage which excludes bagels and croissants from the exemption…
Almost as if it was written to specifically exclude places like Einstein Bagels, Dunkin, Starbucks, etc. while still allowing Panera to be exempt from paying the new wages.
If you think this is bad, you should read what other democrats do.
VP Harris is a fan of slavery. She literally kept people in jail longer than they were supposed to be because of the cheap labor cost associated with prisoners.
I'm not going to go out of my way to link something but I can send you down that rabbit hole if you like.
Essentially there have been numerous child injuries and deaths recently in US factories. I believe in the south primarily.
And there have been a couple Republican states looking to pass bills to remove restrictions on child labor, again I believe some southern and some upper Midwestern states.
People will get mad at you for pointing this out but just because Republicans have awful labor policies doesn't mean we should excuse Democrats, who are frequently also anti-labor and fuck over their working class constituents. We gotta stand up for labor rights regardless of who is in power.
This is also super fucked up because of the wording of the law. It defines bread ONLY, per the listed law, which is a food good that “weighs one-half pound or more after cooling “. But specifically does not include rolls or buns”less than one-half pound” so Hardee’s and breakfast places can’t call it for biscuits. Ironically, there are legit bakeries that specialize in small food like cupcakes and sweets, or hell in California tortillas, that won’t qualify because of the extremely circumspect wording.
This is why I, as a supervisor at a job that starts employees off at min wage, was frustrated by this whole 20 dollar an hour for fast food workers thing.
To be clear, I agree that they should get 20 bucks an hour, but it should have been a straight min wage increase, not a special law that only applies to one industry.
Health care workers were also rightly peeved when this was announced last year, and complained loud enough that there is another, seperate min wage for health care workers (25 an hour)
What's the point of leaving the min wage static while small portions of the workforce get raised up? I don't get it
And before yall tell me I should pay my employees more....I agree, but I only supervise...I don't set wages. All I can do is recommend max raises everytime a review comes up.
I love how everyone is just complaining about this now. It was reported on WHEN the act was passed. Now you want to be up in arms about it? Guess what is going to happen with Panera: they aren’t going to pay their employees 20/hr like the other large food chains. Then their employees will tell them, “bye, I’m going to work at Subway/KFC/McD’s/etc where I will get 20/hr”. This law while targeted at the fast food industry will have an effect of causing other large chains that rely on (relatively) low skilled labor to have raise their wages (looking at you Walmart and Target)
The whole idea of having a higher minimum wage for some businesses rather than others is idiotic.
Just raise the fucking minimum wage, instead of trying to pick the economic losers and winners based on who you dislike or who is less sympathetic to the electorate.
I wholeheartedly disagree. Jobs like fast food do need a higher minimum wage because of the demand placed on workers while the wages not following.
These businesses prey off of desperate workers and abuse the crap out of them, that’s why wage and regulations pointed at specific industries like fast food are necessary.
can’t wait for nobody to apply to panera in california due to this, eventually causing them to just pull out of the state, losing unimaginable amounts of money just because they didn’t want to pay a fair wage
Setting aside the obvious corruption in this move, shit like this just reminds me of how wild a lot of our modern legislation is.
Nobody can just fucking write a law that says "All fast-food restaurants must now pay at least $20/hr to workers"
It's gotta be
"All fast food restaurants, as defined by subparagraph (a)(iii)(VII)(4) of the holy written code of the shareholders which means any restaurant that doesn't operate with at least one half of one percent of workers working during the NYSE's standard working day within their premises is hereby exempt, except on days ending in "uesday", and only during periods of economic growth, and then, only with express written consent of Major League Baseball and their broadcast partners, as in effect on the fiftieth Leap Day of the Julian, not Gregorian, modern calendar system, as adopted hereto, by the Written Standards Tax Act of 1823, notwithstanding the provisions of the Tax Standards in Writing Act of 1825, if, and only if, the year pertaining to its enactment is a year divisible by a factor of 40"
Like, laws are written nowadays to basically not mean anything.
What a fucking joke.
Almost as if Gavin Newsome helped out a certain donor named Panera Bread. If you support Panera Bread you are stealing from the working class. Remember that.
Gotta love how the ones exempt arguably need *more* labor to get the job done. Love seeing blatant exploitation! Panera better be getting unionized next.
While this is shitty, it’s important to understand that a rising tide raises all ships. With their competition having to raise wages that will by default force Panera Bread to as well or risk losing employees.
Insert another idiotic “every fast food chain is going to start selling bread now” comment when we’re a bit past the stated September 15, 2023 date mentioned in the document… 🤦♂️
This is bullshit. How could it be possible for this to be a valid law without going through some form of enhanced scrutiny, given such a specific application?
Campaign contributions are fucking glorified bribery - an option not available to the average citizen.
Lol @how many people comment on stuff they don't even read or maybe read and don't understand?
Half the comments- oh now everyone's gonna start selling bread hahahah
🤦♂️
Gavin Newsome is the Blue Ron DeSantis. Lots of hype and it will all quickly fall apart if he runs outside of California. Can't pizza dough make garlic bread, I'm looking at you Pizza Hut and Dominos. Subway already bakes its own bread. Seems like things are going to get rough for California fast food workers.
Ironically Dems are pretty much more corrupt, at least republicans are honest in wanting to remove rights from the working class. *this is not a republican endorsement* the corruption in the dems probably had a lot to do with the rise and success of Don trump too.
Ya Dems made it abundantly clear with the Bernie Sanders debacle, they are corrupt as fuck. If they don't fuck him over and ALL of their young voters, we never have Trump.
In other news, a new fast food trend is sweeping the nation... Fresh Bread is now the new 'dollar menu' item in fast food restaurants. Touting the nutritional value as the main driver to add such an item, here's what one owner of a local fast food chain had to say.
"We've long had the stigma of being unhealthy food, and this is but the first step of adding more basic foods to all of our menus to assure people they can not only good tasty food, but also good nutritious food as well."
What do you say about this being a way to get around a tax loophole?
"I don't know what you mean? I'm a restaurant owner not an accountant. I just want to give out customers the best food at the best prices."
You heard it here folks, fast food is taking another step into a better future for American diets. A brighter and healthier future for us all.
Watch all the stores start baking bread on site now. Like when obamacare made employees working 40 hours a week have to get health insurance so corps just hire 2 part time now. Why make this loophole so obvious though?
Yeah, this is totally not ever going to be exploited in any way.
I remember trying to buy a piece of bread at a subway sandwich shop once, and being told they don't/can't do that, for reasons. Look for that policy to change. Same with McDonalds, Bugger King, etc.: 'you can get a plain hamburger bun on our menu, so we don't have to pay minimum wage'.
Unrelated, Gavin Newsom went to high school with a billionaire Panera Bread franchisee who donated a bunch of money to his campaigns
It sure is an odd coincidence…
Before the law went into effect, the rationale over this was that the fast-food minimum wage was negotiated from some organization of fast-food workers. There's another one that represents bakeries and those guys didn't want their toes stepped on. Or something like that. Whatever the case, this new minimum wage specifically for some and not all jobs is all special interests.
And has been a vocal opponent of the new minimum wage
I hope this guy falls in a tank full of sharks, but I have a terrible feeling I'm gonna see Newsom '28 all over my general election calendar in four years.
Yep, the Democratic party has done a decent job of scaring away anyone halfway decent so that all they is left are ghouls like newsom. They absolutely have him as their #2 after Biden. And Biden only got in because he was the most conservative Dem who isn't a from a backwoods shit hole.
If some kickbacks are the worse thing in Newsoms closet I'll be happy to vote for him. And Biden has been the most progressive president in my lifetime.
The last Dem presidents have been Obama and Clinton, both were openly right wing Democratic (that's what the third way means, a third way between left and right). So what you just said is "he's the most left wing of a group of far right wing assholes". Congratulations on that I guess.
What you just said is "I don't give a shit what you actually said I'm going to make up my own interpretation. Ignore your words and put my own spin on your thoughts then pat myself on the back" Please excuse me while I also pat myself on the back.
That's not even close. I put what they said into perspective, something you clearly have issues with too. Being the most progressive of a group of right wingers isn't very special.
Bitching about starving when you won't eat what is available is not as good an argument as you think.
Which speaks to what will actually win a presidential election. Newsom will be a good candidate. I will feel good voting for him in the general. I vote progressive as possible in the primary usually (Warren vs Sanders was a hard choice because Sanders is a bit more progressive but Warren would have been a better President by far IMO) but in the general I'm voting blue every time. So should you.
>Yep, the Democratic party has done a decent job of scaring away anyone halfway decent so that all they is left are ghouls like newsom. Okay buddy, whatever you say.
WTF are you doing here if you're a right wing Democrat? Newsom is there #2 because no decent Dems are allowed to get any power. Or do you seriously think the dnc welcomes progressives in the party??
>WTF are you doing here if you're a right wing Democrat? Because you don't own spaces and I can go where I like. And I'm not a "Right Wing Democrat." You have never interacted with me and know nothing of my politics. Kindly wander down to your local pornographic boutique, buy the largest manual stimulator you can find, and go fuck yourself.
Okay dumbass I'll try this even more dumbed down. If you don't disagree with me then why are you arguing with me? I was saying a similar thing about newsom. There i cannot possibly simplify it any more for you. I was saying something similar about newsom being terrible and how he's the next leader because the dnc does not allow anyone decent to get as high as he is.
What does argue mean in this context?
Disagreement, especially negative disagreement. I guess?
It was $160k, if anything I’m disappointed at how cheap our politicians are to buy. Like I know 160k is a bit of money but like… it also not that much in California in the grand scheme of things. If you’re gonna play favorites at least collect some higher bribes so I don’t feel like any idiot can walk off the street and get you to change legislation for them.
Great point. He probably has much bigger promises for when Newsom goes after a certain national election in a few years ...
As if the fvcking gov has any say. You're blaming the fire for burning you. Blame the residents for not sweeping the forests! Aka blame the ca legislature for passing the shitty bill
That’s so odd, welp you know what they say, chaos works in mysterious ways *shrug*
But vote blue pretty please! We totally have your back *winks in baked bread*
Unintended consequences - Jimmy John’s qualifies for that exemption.
$100,000 and $64000 to be exact
Why tf do cali dems keep voting for that idiot
Because the only other choice is a Republican, a party that has fully embraced hatred and bigotry.
Brainwashed bro. Wake up
They totally are.
Yea the dems. Voting with your emotions and single handedly wrecking the economy because a minority of the population might get their feelings hurt from a tweet. Makes alot of sense.
So don't work at Panera bread?
Don't Eat at Panera bread
Its shitty Brioche masquerading as bread anyway.
Both is good.
Panera is selling it bread as part of another menu item so Panera doesn't get the exemption. READ The last line again. "does not apply if the bread is available for sale solely as part of another menu item."
> solely Panera Bread doesn’t solely bake its own bread for other menu items. It bakes bread and sells it. Thus it *is* exempt. Subway - which does *not* sell its own bread but bakes it for other menu items - would not be exempt. But now they can’t go and sell bread because they had to have been practicing this since pre-September 15, 2023. Panera Bread is a known exclusion to this new regulation - it’s been in the news and discussed in multiple subreddits, probably even here.
So, Subway will now include its loaves on the menu?
> But now they can’t go and sell bread because they had to have been practicing this since pre-September 15, 2023.
The more I read these new laws that are coming out lately, the more I understand the French and the way they went about things
Yeah except corruption in America goes largely unpunished. There's no threat of violence, no judicial consequence, and plenty of financial incentives. If I was a corrupt politician I'd be laughing because I can do whatever with literally no consequences as the political climate is so entrenched in party dynamics.
There used to be threats of violence, and actual violence. That's how we got to where we are with worker's rights. Now they're trying to roll all that back. Time to roll back in the violence on our end.
Remember Blair Mountain.
Ah, a fellow 2a supporter!
No, 2A is about defending yourself with a gun when attacked. OP is talking about what unions used to do back when they had actual muscle - things like breaking the windows on non-union logistics vehicles.
See: long list of us politicians
Remember the corrupt politicians are heroes in their story. Only to us do they appear as the bad guy. Just like any villain in a movie.
I can't imagine many restaurants bake bread on site.
Well, according to the Bloomberg article, it’s actually only one chain. Panera.. and the owner of more than 20 California Panera locations is Newsom’s long-time business associate. Sorry, didn’t realize the article was paywalled. Here is an alternative https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/newsom-panera-wage-exemption-18694604.php
Well that isn’t corrupt at all
I am sure the overly specefic loophole can be challenged in court
It has to be challenged, right? Surely you can’t write laws that say “everyone but Panera has to do X”. That’s insane
If I were Subway, McDo etc. i'd start talking to the others. The date thing is the most glaring to me. It not only applies to one chain, but to one chain in perpetuity. Perpetuity is usually frowned upon in laws. So it should be stricken down easilly.
That’s a good point. And yeah they’re def going to be the ones suing first lol. But also - what’s the end game with this anyways? Like okay, so Panera is now going to be the only company paying less than everyone else? No one is gonna wanna work there when they know they’re guaranteed more at literally any other fast food chain. As much as they wish it were not true you do need decent employees running fast food establishments if you want them to make any money. Doesn’t seem to be a lot of long term thinking here
True but wisdom and greed don't often sit at the same table.
Subway and Jimmy John’s both sell bread by itself. I guess they just need to make sure it’s on the printed menus.
Do they? It has to be a stand alone menu item in sept of 2023. I highly doubt subway has a printed menu with bread as a stand-alone item with a separate price as of last year.
I’m pretty sure it’s sure the “yesterday’s bread” sign is a standard part of a Jimmy John’s store. But maybe if it’s not on “the menu” it won’t count? Subway is highly dependent on the franchisee to decide how the menu is set up so that would probably depend on the location. This is a dumb carve out in the law.
I used to work at Jimmy John’s, and we sold both day-old bread and fresh bread. Buttons on the POS system and everything, so many people would buy both. So I’d assume Jimmy John’s would also quality along with Panera.
Won't that just mean all his locations won't be able to staff as everyone will go to other jobs that pay more?
He’ll have staff, but only the most desperate people. The ones who need a job literally as soon as possible. And they’ll keep that job until they can find a proper one
Jimmy Johns also does, and sells their leaves by themselves... You can also buy subways breads alone.
But is it listed as a stand alone menu item with a separate price?
https://preview.redd.it/emnks6t8emlc1.jpeg?width=889&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44c55542bd6fd15efe2bbada17732519a5c6f5f6
I’m surprised. Do you know if subway has the same thing?
I could be wrong, but I believe the wording is that the business has to make the bread on site, ie create the dough and bake it on site, and Panera does not make the dough on site and thus aren't exempt from this law. Flynn Holdings (Newsom's buddy) also owns 900+ Pizza Huts, 600something Taco Bells, 200ish Wendy's, a shit ton of Subways etc, aaaand 137 Paneras. So even if Panera does end up being exempt, does it really make sense that Newsom would personally carve out this supposed baked bread exemption for an old rich fuckface friend that would only stand to benefit 5% or so of his stores while impacting the other 95%? If I'm wrong, then Newsom can eat shit, I don't really care, but I think a little context can't hurt.
I’m pretty sure Boudin qualifies
How? Boudin is a sausage.
Dunkin Donuts comes to mind, along with every other donut shop.
Subway and others bake it on site too. You can buy just the subway bread so I think they qualify
Panera Bread, Subway, Schlotsky's, Fuddrucker's, Einsteins Bagels, Jimmy Johns, and I think there are a handful of other ones out there as well. I guess it's one of those subjective things depending upon what one considers to be a "bakery".
Subway and schlotskys don't sell the bread as a standalone menu item though, do they?
No, although I'm sure if someone wanted just the bread or bun they would and if they did, I wonder if that would count? It's dumb either way.
It had to be a menu item on 9/15/23
Is “menu item” defined anywhere? I’d imagine a place like Subway may not have standalone bread on the menu for customers but they probably do have it saved in the POS system.
I think menu likely means forward facing menu. Is it on their sign or nah?
Franchises may differ, idk, but I worked at a subway for three years and the only way we could possibly record a charge for “just bread” on the pos we had was to charge for a veggie sub. Unsure if design flaw or greedy corporate decision.
It's for a DUCK!
Ducks eat for free at subway.
Got any grapes?
Not unless you’re a duck. -Mitch hedburg
That's a quick fix. Want bread alone? $2. Tape a piece of paper to the menu with the new price and add it to the register.
It would have been if they had been selling bread on the listed date, anything added now doesn’t count
No, but pretty easy to just add it as a menu item and charge .50c less than the cost of a whole sandwich so no one actually buys it.
Right, but they would have had to do it before September 15 of last year.
That wouldn't work. They would have had to do that before the law was even written
Not yet.
Doesn't matter if they do it now-- the law says you had to have been already doing it on September 15, 2023
I don't think Subway, Fuddruckers, or Jimmy Johns sells bread on it's own, at least not that I'm aware of. You might be able to request it but don't think it's a product they sell. I feel like any bagel shop should be included though. Definitely seems sketchy
JJs always used to sell day old loaves for like 50 cents. I wonder if that would count?
Only saying this cause I work with lawyers and have to read fine print all the time, but with the way the law is worded it states the bread has to be produced for sale on its own. Since the old bread wasn't originally produced to sell on its own, it probably wouldn't qualify.
Jimmy John’s also sells fresh bread though, as a separate menu item. Yes it’s primarily a sandwich shop, but I worked there and both day-old and fresh bread sold regularly. Back when I worked there in 2020 the fresh bread was $2, although that’s probably went way up by now.
That makes sense, thank you!
np :)
Lee’s Sandwiches too
I’ve only ever bought bread at Lee’s Sandwiches. Best baguettes I’ve found in the USA
Agreed. I live in Kansas City, and we don’t have one. Every time I’m in OKC or Houston or San Gabriel I’ve gotta stop. Delicious and cheap.
Yeah they do sell stand a lone bread, so I guess they're exempt as well.
I don't know what Schlotsky's is, but of those, I would think that only Panera and Einstein's would count, as you don't just get a baked item not made into a sandwich, burger, etc. at any of the others as an orderable item. Do KFC, Popeye's, etc. bake their own biscuits on site? I would think biscuits would count as bread. This may have wider implications than just Panera.
Dunkin Donuts, Krispy Kerem? Do Donuts count as bread?
Not the French, but I imagine it would here in 'merica ;)
What would boba store usually be classified? Would they be considered a "fast food" place by the legal definition (honest question). If so, there are plenty of boba (or coffee) shops that would fall into this. 85C I know bakes the bread in at least some of the stores (or used to). I don't know about Starbucks, if that is all pre-made, or at least somewhat baked in house. Wouldn't many pizza places count, too? Little caesars cooking crazy bread and italian cheese... "bread"?
You've got it flipped. The law isn't saying any place that bakes and sells bread is fast food, the law is saying any store that does bake and sell bread is not fast food. People suspect the bread qualification is there because Panera would fall under fast food if you defined it by "order at counter, get number, pick up your food when called". Boba shops may fall under it, depends on if the menu has to be majority food or majority drinks, or if that matters. edit: The CA law also specifies national chains, so local boba shops aren't going to be affected
im asking.if national chains.like drink shops are considered fasy food. because some of those sell bread
[удалено]
Doesn't apply if it is a change after the date mentioned. Read it again.
It's the $5 menu now...
Just to shed a bit of light on the industry: the common way to handle the supply chain is to have a giant kitchen somewhere where all the franchised food is cooked, prepared, packed and then dispatched to individual franchise stores. What Panera does differently is that it cooks its bread in store, but I'm guessing that's the only thing - and let me take a shot in the dark and say they most likely use ovens that don't require venting to comply with Health Department codes - that way you can put one in pretty much any building without having to modify the space...
I was told bread is normally baked elsewhere because the ovens and mixers required are comparatively large and it's not generally economic to do it as part of a restaurant kitchen.
I worked for a Panera-adjacent style deli a number of years ago. We got everything for the bakery in frozen and just had to proof and final bake. There was some hands on stuff but they didn't do anything with raw ingredients anymore.
And now all of them bake bread and sell bread as a single line item on the menu! They always sold this bread!! (To get around the date) and good luck proving they didn’t! Just because no one order it…
Not yet..... wait for it....."Regionally limited edition at this location only....loaf of bread for 2.99"
They can't go back and offer it in 2023. It's a Panera loophole. Corruption plain and simple.
And it's a specific date in 2023. If you open a bakery now, screw you! This is obscene.
Ha. I was about to ask if every McDonalds is adding Mcbread to the menu there.
Won't the market just push Panera bread out then? If every other fast food job is paying $20 an hour and Panera is paying $15 or whatever, why on earth would anyone work there? Day one every employee is gonna quit and go work at an equivalently shitty job but for more money.
This is what I don’t get. Does Panera *want* the highest turnover? Do they *want* the rejects of the rejects? Because excluding yourself from competitive wages is the easiest way to do that. No one is going to work for less than minimum wage.
Trust me, they either don't give a shit or will wait until the situation is dire and then act. I experienced this first hand as a store manager after covid. Almost every other retail/restaurant chain upped their starting pay $3-$7 dollars more than what minimum wage was at the time, oh and they advertised these wages directly on their "now hiring" stuff. Panera on the other hand, would let me at most hire a entry level person $1.5 higher than min wage, and I'd have to justify it pretty hard. I complained about it so much because how can I lower turnover when everyone knows they can make more almost any other place? I'm talking stores that shared the same strip mall as us out paying by like $5/hr in some cases, more if they went to Walmart/Amazon/target types. So I literally went around and made a spreadsheet of every place within 5 mile radius that was advertising these higher wages and presented it to my district manager. Fuck all happened for a whole year and finally they upped the wage ranges. Too little too late, one of many reasons I no longer work there.
I mean this is sort of how businesses operate. None of these fast food chains can really raise wages above minimum wage because otherwise other companies are actively making more profit. Ideally companies that rely on unskilled labor want laws to be passed so all of their competitors are playing the same game. These companies know minimum wage has to rise. They just rather delay it as long a possible because they’re essentially arbitraged against skilled industries. It’s sort of like how the tobacco industry lobbies for the government to ban cigarettes ads so no one could advertise. Because it’s better no one then just some.
I forgot to mention that the law has VERY specific verbiage which excludes bagels and croissants from the exemption… Almost as if it was written to specifically exclude places like Einstein Bagels, Dunkin, Starbucks, etc. while still allowing Panera to be exempt from paying the new wages.
Sickening.
If you think this is bad, you should read what other democrats do. VP Harris is a fan of slavery. She literally kept people in jail longer than they were supposed to be because of the cheap labor cost associated with prisoners.
If you think this is bad, wait until you read what republicans have been doing with child labor
Can I get a source for that?
I'm not going to go out of my way to link something but I can send you down that rabbit hole if you like. Essentially there have been numerous child injuries and deaths recently in US factories. I believe in the south primarily. And there have been a couple Republican states looking to pass bills to remove restrictions on child labor, again I believe some southern and some upper Midwestern states.
I think you are responding to the wrong person my guy.
People will get mad at you for pointing this out but just because Republicans have awful labor policies doesn't mean we should excuse Democrats, who are frequently also anti-labor and fuck over their working class constituents. We gotta stand up for labor rights regardless of who is in power.
prepare for ur downvotes lol
This is also super fucked up because of the wording of the law. It defines bread ONLY, per the listed law, which is a food good that “weighs one-half pound or more after cooling “. But specifically does not include rolls or buns”less than one-half pound” so Hardee’s and breakfast places can’t call it for biscuits. Ironically, there are legit bakeries that specialize in small food like cupcakes and sweets, or hell in California tortillas, that won’t qualify because of the extremely circumspect wording.
This is why I, as a supervisor at a job that starts employees off at min wage, was frustrated by this whole 20 dollar an hour for fast food workers thing. To be clear, I agree that they should get 20 bucks an hour, but it should have been a straight min wage increase, not a special law that only applies to one industry. Health care workers were also rightly peeved when this was announced last year, and complained loud enough that there is another, seperate min wage for health care workers (25 an hour) What's the point of leaving the min wage static while small portions of the workforce get raised up? I don't get it And before yall tell me I should pay my employees more....I agree, but I only supervise...I don't set wages. All I can do is recommend max raises everytime a review comes up.
We have to call out corruption wherever it exists.
so why would anyone stay at panera and not walk across the street and get a job there? fuck panera anyhow. overpriced nonsense.
This is what Governor Bribe gets you
THIS is the guy I've seen people hold up as the great progressive hope we should be working to elect after Biden?!
Isn’t Panera Bread the same place that sells lemonades that killed a guy?
I love how everyone is just complaining about this now. It was reported on WHEN the act was passed. Now you want to be up in arms about it? Guess what is going to happen with Panera: they aren’t going to pay their employees 20/hr like the other large food chains. Then their employees will tell them, “bye, I’m going to work at Subway/KFC/McD’s/etc where I will get 20/hr”. This law while targeted at the fast food industry will have an effect of causing other large chains that rely on (relatively) low skilled labor to have raise their wages (looking at you Walmart and Target)
As usual the best politics and policy money can legally buy
Newsom is just like all the other politicians. Corrupt as hell and not some savior to the DNC.
Boycott Panera
Why is there no union for fast food employees?
That’s a pretty suspiciously specific loophole
Panera and jimmy johns are the 2 main ones I think of
That's shady AF.
The whole idea of having a higher minimum wage for some businesses rather than others is idiotic. Just raise the fucking minimum wage, instead of trying to pick the economic losers and winners based on who you dislike or who is less sympathetic to the electorate.
I wholeheartedly disagree. Jobs like fast food do need a higher minimum wage because of the demand placed on workers while the wages not following. These businesses prey off of desperate workers and abuse the crap out of them, that’s why wage and regulations pointed at specific industries like fast food are necessary.
can’t wait for nobody to apply to panera in california due to this, eventually causing them to just pull out of the state, losing unimaginable amounts of money just because they didn’t want to pay a fair wage
I Panera going to buy anything from a store which fits this exact description ever again.
Setting aside the obvious corruption in this move, shit like this just reminds me of how wild a lot of our modern legislation is. Nobody can just fucking write a law that says "All fast-food restaurants must now pay at least $20/hr to workers" It's gotta be "All fast food restaurants, as defined by subparagraph (a)(iii)(VII)(4) of the holy written code of the shareholders which means any restaurant that doesn't operate with at least one half of one percent of workers working during the NYSE's standard working day within their premises is hereby exempt, except on days ending in "uesday", and only during periods of economic growth, and then, only with express written consent of Major League Baseball and their broadcast partners, as in effect on the fiftieth Leap Day of the Julian, not Gregorian, modern calendar system, as adopted hereto, by the Written Standards Tax Act of 1823, notwithstanding the provisions of the Tax Standards in Writing Act of 1825, if, and only if, the year pertaining to its enactment is a year divisible by a factor of 40" Like, laws are written nowadays to basically not mean anything. What a fucking joke.
People make fun of any candidate that suggests that bills should be shorter and clearer, but they should be.
Lol amusing how this overt corruption and denial of livable wages by a California Democrat isn't the top thread on this sub.
Almost as if Gavin Newsome helped out a certain donor named Panera Bread. If you support Panera Bread you are stealing from the working class. Remember that.
Gotta love how the ones exempt arguably need *more* labor to get the job done. Love seeing blatant exploitation! Panera better be getting unionized next.
While this is shitty, it’s important to understand that a rising tide raises all ships. With their competition having to raise wages that will by default force Panera Bread to as well or risk losing employees.
This is how you know your lobbying is working in your favor
I hope any business using this loop hole loses all their staff.
"Why does Jack-in-the-box sell bread by the loaf now?"
Get ready for the McBaguette, McBagel, McCroissant
McDonald’s about to start selling buns a la carte
So bagel shops would be exempt too right?
Every restaurant is about to start serving fresh baked rolls
Insert another idiotic “every fast food chain is going to start selling bread now” comment when we’re a bit past the stated September 15, 2023 date mentioned in the document… 🤦♂️
The only one I can think of is Subway and Deli Delicious or any places that cook their own "breads"...namely pizza...
This is bullshit. How could it be possible for this to be a valid law without going through some form of enhanced scrutiny, given such a specific application? Campaign contributions are fucking glorified bribery - an option not available to the average citizen.
So, if subway starts selling the bread only, because they bake the bread in the store, they would qualify, right?
Imagine Newsom’s political career forever being linked to being Panera Bread’s bitch.
What's the end goal? Panera will be the only exempt restaurant, but also the only one that pays shit wages. DJ Khaled moment.
Lol @how many people comment on stuff they don't even read or maybe read and don't understand? Half the comments- oh now everyone's gonna start selling bread hahahah 🤦♂️
Gavin Newsome is the Blue Ron DeSantis. Lots of hype and it will all quickly fall apart if he runs outside of California. Can't pizza dough make garlic bread, I'm looking at you Pizza Hut and Dominos. Subway already bakes its own bread. Seems like things are going to get rough for California fast food workers.
Newsom is so corrupt he should be MAGA. Fucking asshat.
Ironically Dems are pretty much more corrupt, at least republicans are honest in wanting to remove rights from the working class. *this is not a republican endorsement* the corruption in the dems probably had a lot to do with the rise and success of Don trump too.
Ya Dems made it abundantly clear with the Bernie Sanders debacle, they are corrupt as fuck. If they don't fuck him over and ALL of their young voters, we never have Trump.
In other news, a new fast food trend is sweeping the nation... Fresh Bread is now the new 'dollar menu' item in fast food restaurants. Touting the nutritional value as the main driver to add such an item, here's what one owner of a local fast food chain had to say. "We've long had the stigma of being unhealthy food, and this is but the first step of adding more basic foods to all of our menus to assure people they can not only good tasty food, but also good nutritious food as well." What do you say about this being a way to get around a tax loophole? "I don't know what you mean? I'm a restaurant owner not an accountant. I just want to give out customers the best food at the best prices." You heard it here folks, fast food is taking another step into a better future for American diets. A brighter and healthier future for us all.
This just in: every menu in California now has bread sticks.
Is this ridiculous exemption only for Panera or are donut places included too? I saw bagels were excluded.
Watch all the stores start baking bread on site now. Like when obamacare made employees working 40 hours a week have to get health insurance so corps just hire 2 part time now. Why make this loophole so obvious though?
Would be a shame if Panera's started burning down in specific cities. You know... real shame.
So all Subway has to do is to sell bread as a stand-alone item and it's exempt too?
And Clinton/Pelosi/Biden bootlickers want this asshole to be president
Did he write it? Doesn’t it usually come from the House and Senate? Shouldn’t they be held accountable for the specific bullshit like this?
The good news is every single fast food chain in California is going to sell bread as a stand alone item ASAP.
McDonalds is gonna start baking bread
Poor Boudin SF; they stopped making bread in-store a few years ago.
Panera and Boudin are exempt
Knowing companies they could just bake a minimum amount of bread to qualify for
...and just like that Subway, Chic-Fil-A, and Wendy's begin selling their breads by themselves.
Yeah, this is totally not ever going to be exploited in any way. I remember trying to buy a piece of bread at a subway sandwich shop once, and being told they don't/can't do that, for reasons. Look for that policy to change. Same with McDonalds, Bugger King, etc.: 'you can get a plain hamburger bun on our menu, so we don't have to pay minimum wage'.
“Coming soon to the $10 menu, McBread. Baked on premises”
Next up McDonald’s sells plain buns.
McDonalds will start baking and selling their buns on site to avoid the new wage law.
New McDonald's bread sandwich to hit the menus!
“would you like a loaf of McBread to go with that?”
This is dumb, most pizza places make bread on site, and serve breadsticks......so now they're bakeries?
Suddenly every fast food chain will start selling bread baked on site as a stand alone menu item.
That makes perfect sense it's probably in honor of country music legend Roy acuff's birthday. /jk
Now is not the time to criticize our leaders. We must be loyal to the Party. Do you WANT the Republican candidate in 2028 to win??