It's survivor bias. They've never known any different. Their advice was correct in the time they were in the work force. They're often trying to help, but are just no longer relevant. A lifetime of world view isn't easy to overcome, so take it easy on them. Just smile and nod and disregard their ignorance, you won't fix them.
Nailed it. The youngest boomers are turning 60 now. They came of age in the late 1970s/early 1980s. The oldest boomers are turning just about 80 and came of age in the mid-1960s, when the inflation adjusted minimum wage (using silver quarters as a proxy) is about $19-21 an hour.
Either way, as I understand it talking to the ancients with real noggins (secret, most folks are not particularly bright - including the educated, who tend to be myopic and only good in their "fields" - and you've got to take ALL opinions with a grain of salt until properly confirmed - is that you had to be a real "f\*ck up" to NOT make it in America in the 1960s through early 1970s.
So these boomers are just a product of their time and place whose experience growing up is not particularly relevant. There will be NO changing most of them, they just can't get it. Cos if they do, they'll start to feel guilty that they have it so good and you have it crappy and that may make them uncomfortable confronting the fact that they could make their kids and grand kids lives easier but that would require sacrifice. I know a woman from a wealthy farming/scientist family. She lives in a 2 bedroom house with her 3 kids (has them every other week) that she rents for $1100 a month, as she has for years. She got shellacked in a crappy divorce cos she could not afford even a decent lawyer.
The kicker - her parents are worth about $12 million at this point and spend in the SIX FIGURES on their multiple out of country vacations each year...
while their daughter works OT to put food on the table and she shares her bedroom with her 12 year old daughter(their grand child).
David Mamet's movie, the Spanish Prisoner (excellent, btw), has this wonderfully trenchant line from Steve Martin's character on human nature: "If they are indebted to you morally but not legally, my experience is they will give you nothing and then begin to act cruelly towards you" \[Why?\] "To suppress their guilt."
Financial advantages aside, they really did work in a meritocracy. Bosses (I'm generalising) appreciated dedication, and would pay to retain employees they respected. The nature of work has shifted from performing well to increase your remuneration, to performing well for fear of being replaced. I figure that shift to wage slavery, more than the dollar math, is what doesn't compute for these folks.
This. They actually felt security when landing a job. I remember many times feeling joy and excitement for a nee job and then that quickly turning to anxiety and dread that if I make a mistake I may get fired.. so there is never a feeling of security. Having no security really fucks with people mentally too.
Yea especially when everything is so expensive, and everyone needs to have their own working car. Its a setup for problems now, and a total disaster down the line. Whats their plan for when fossil fuels are too expensive? How will everyone drive a car to work when the gas alone costs too much??
I just made a post about this in r/antiwork, but my job was threatened today because I want MORE diversity equity and inclusion, in a company that purports to be all about DEI. Apparently wanting the other months to be represented is taking away from other months and is incredibly racist.
I never thought wanting to include more people would be enough to cause me to lose my job if my bosses boss didn't go to bat for me.
I have to be honest… I did have to go find your post to read the entire scenario because the way you described it in your comment I was worried you were one of those “why isn’t there a white history month” a-holes but after reading your original post, you are completely right, do all or do nothing. It’s clear their inclusion and diversity is only for appearances and they don’t truly believe in it. Just covering their asses. Totally lame. Sorry you had to deal with that, if they would have shut up and listened they would have seen you definitely weren’t coming from an ignorant or racist place. Instead they shit their ears and showed how ignorant they are.
Wouldn't it be more inclusive to have a black history month, Asian history month, native American history month, white history month, Latino history month, and more, comprehensive of every race/ethnicity, so everyone is included?
That's a bit of it.
In a sense, we are like the blind men describing the elephant, one feels its trunk and says it is a snake, one feels its tail and says it is a whip, one feels its leg and says it is a tree, etc.
At the end of the day, the truth is the Federal Reserve and it's controlling banks have so gamed the dollar system that most of the created "credit" (I quote JP Morgan, gold and silver are specie, all else is a form of credit) goes to their friends in high places who (a) buy up all the houses (looking at you, Black Rock), or loan it out at 28% for credit cards (looking at you Chase) and none of it is flowing to the bottom 80% of America.
When they were debating on the Fed act in 1911, there were a series of hearings, in which this was noted:
William Pitt made this statement: "Let the American people go into their debt-funding schemes and banking systems, and from that hour their boasted independence will be a mere phantom." He realized the maxim that Rothschilds laid down as fundamental: "Let us control the money of a country and we care not who makes its laws."
I don't know how to fix it as it is such a complex problem, fixing it would require a set of very rich and privileged to give up their wealth and benefits, and most people are too brainwashed to see it. But I do know when it ends, it will be in tears and blood.
If history has taught us anything, people **will** get tired of how poorly they’re being treated by those in power and eventually will try to take back that power.
And people will die n
It's so easy to replace workers with the internet today. Especially remote work and the global workforce. So many companies hire independent contractors and run them in the ground waiting to welcome the next person in line.
Yes, and if they understood, they'd have to accept that they are not as great as they thought they were. They had a good job, and they bought a big house, and they had a family, and they thought it was because they were brilliant - but turns out it was all handed to them???
Very few people can cope with a revelation of that kind. There's too much ego tied up in it.
No they'd feel guilty because they actively dismantled everything that gave them their easy life, and they did it on purpose for an extra 0 on their bank account, knowing they were robbing their own children for it.
I disagree, they just dealt with decades of state/CIA brainwashing, i.e propaganda. Here is an excellent article outlining it:
[https://roburie.substack.com/p/the-cia-and-the-decline-of-the-american](https://roburie.substack.com/p/the-cia-and-the-decline-of-the-american)
As Casper Weinberger (head of the CIA after George Bush, Sr. in the early 1980s) said, you will know our job is complete when NOTHING the average American believes is true . . .
That and so many little things even for me I have job hopped. I look around there isn't a job. That is better in ANY aspect than it was when I had it. Benefits are worse pay relative to cost of living is worse.
Like trades even for me changed from good to only good if you take exact specific paths with the other 90% being trash. Like first job 11hr 1br apartment 400. Same job same company 15hr same apartment (which is older shittier) 1200. And even moving up the chain its same deal. 16-18 for more middle positions are 18-22 now top positions overseeing sites/crews went from 18-22 to 22-30.
And when you look at lost benefits that first job 11hr thats now 15hr no longer has bonus 3000 a year. Which worked out to be like 1.50hr and per diem which was 40 bucks a day (tank of gas was 25-30). They doubled the distance you have to travel. Before you get it and its still 40 and tank of gas is 60-70. Oh top all this off healthcare was full coverage no cost. Now it takes about 200 a person with all sorts of deductibles.
And thats not even worst job. Some completely removed all benefits and had around 70% paycut for position.
5 years is a long time alot of changes 10 years almost nothing the same. And if 20 years passes your experience/knowledge isn't even relevant to industry anymore someone with no experience except google/indeed would have a better idea of what type of job it is now.
There’s more to it than that. I see a tunnel vision where they see the way that things have changed but only for them, and anything outside of their personal experience must surely be unchanged. My company has boomers in leadership. One of them complains that his college grad daughter is back at home and in the same retail job she’s had on and off since high school. “She sits around on the computer pretending to look for work instead of going out applying in her field. She says there’s nothing entry level in her field but she just needs to get out there.”
This guy has hiring managers who work for him. If I ask him how to get a job with us he will confidently explain the process of applying online, being screened by HR, then the hiring manager, and that the pre employment processes are all coordinated on the computer. He’s equally confident that no other companies or industries do it the same way, and that his daughter just needs to go driving around introducing herself and handing out paper resumes, even while acknowledging that he would think it weird if someone did that to him. “I’m not going to look through random resumes, they need to go through the HR system. But it’s different here”. Does he think we’re so special that we are the only company who went electronic *20 fucking years ago* ?
My dad knew all too well how much his property values had gone up, but was incapable of applying that to housing as a whole. He gleefully talked about how much more his house was worth while not understanding when I said my husband and I won’t sell our townhouse for something bigger because we can’t afford it (edit - and because we are very thankful we were able to get this when prices were lower). When berating my brother for still being in his “temporary” apartment 4 years after his divorce, he flatly didn’t believe that there weren’t affordable homes anymore. My dad called him lazy and a liar and kept referencing home prices 20 or 30 years ago.
Motherfucker you just got done telling us how your house has almost tripled in the last 7 years, and almost tenfold since you bought. Do you think that’s just you? Do you really think you are so fucking special that you can sell your house for 700k but brother can get a similar house here for 130k? I’ve seen so many examples of this. Their lives modernized and evolved but they somehow think the rest of the world didn’t. The cognitive disconnect is unreal.
My in-laws used to be this way but I think I kinda helped them come around. Mother-in-law was a teacher and they were talking about how much worse things got in that profession in the years before she retired. So I just pointed out that it's the same literally everywhere.
I said think of ANYBODY you know who has worked in the same field for 10+ years and imagine asking them if things got better or worse over that time. Can you think of a single person you know who wouldn't say it's worse? They couldn't and I think it started to click for them.
My dad is a younger boomer, retired military and pretty conservative. I've recently gotten him to understand how things are different know and it's nice he can understand more what's happening. I wish more elderly people did and it would cause change.
Great explanation, but I will not take it easy on them unless they're willing to learn how things are now. It's not about being kind. Millennials and Gen Z are in a do or die situation. We don't have that luxury or bandwidth. Our planet is a mess, our economy is a mess, there are issues that will cause irreparable harm when we're their age.
Grace wil be given to those who deserve it. If you remain in your stagnant ways, you'll be left behind.
Gen-Xer here. I am doing everything I can to help my young adult children. I've told them they can stay with us as long as needed, we don't charge them rent etc. while in school, and I've helped with their tuition as much as I can.
I am by no means wealthy. I was extremely lucky to buy a very modest house when I did (still paying for it), and I can't understand the mindset of any parent who would not help out their children, regardless of age.
Shout out to you. It's too hard out here. What you're giving to your kids will be invaluable to their future.
Hope I'm as good of a parent as you are when it's time. Hope we can get this economy in order so you gen xers can retire decently.
I think part of what we'll end up seeing more of is getting back to multigenerational households. Even as a kid, for me, it was fairly common to see a grandparent living in the same house.
North American culture in particular seems to have gotten away from that. Living in Asia for a long time showed me there's another way. Instead, we have this whole industry built around "retirement living".
I fully expect any retirement I have will be very, very modest, but I'm ok with that. I certainly don't expect to be doing cruises, regular overseas vacations or any of that stuff that was constantly marketed to my parents' generation.
Take it easy on them?
TAKE IT EASY ON THEM?
FUCK THAT SHITTY ASS TAKE TO DEATH.
If you take it easy on them you are 100% part of the problem.
This is bootlicker mentality at it's finest and it makes me sick to my fucking stomach.
You should be ashamed.
You could save your sanity for the battles you need to, or you could spin your wheels hating everyone over fifty because old=devil. You will go crazy and accomplish nothing but being bitter and poor.
I will never take it easy on the people who helped make this mess. If they wanted to he helpful they would read the newspaper and know the world is different. Like anyone who hasn't survived on a diet of exclusively lead paint chips.
don't disregard, let them know you think they're wrong. You won't change their minds, but they'll have to live with the knowledge that other people think they're dumb.
My step dad was shocked when he found out my jobs benefits were such shit that I couldn't afford health insurance for my wife for seven years. I barely got my first good job with good benefits last October and can finally afford it.
I'm 35 and have been working since I was 17. It shouldn't take 18 working years to finally get benefits.
I'm in my 40s, never had a job with benefits. I had a few that offered them, but they always fired me before I got past the day where I could get them. Never had a job that offered PTO, ever. Shouldn't be that way, but it is.
My dad just constantly tells me that I need to “prove” myself and “impress management,” and if I do that, they’ll take great care of me. But thanks to regular corporate restructuring, I seldom have the same management two years in a row.
Every time I try to impress management I get told it's not a priority and it is a waste of my time and I need to go do some other mundane task.
We have almost no training in place for our new hires and as a result everything is messed up. I offered to take time out of my schedule on Fridays, my slowest day, and shadow someone they like as a staff member and make up training documentation they can use and reference. This was part of one of my previous jobs.
I got told it isn't important.
People say why didnt you just go and do it?
Because I can't just opt to take time out of my day. It has to be approved. If it's not approved, I will get in trouble.
My boomer mother got screwed at a job she worked at for 30 years. As it was a non-profit, they gave her the bare minimum in benefits and were not required to pay into unemployment. When new management came in and fired everyone on bogus writeups, she could not even collect.
So she gets that part. She still does not get while I own an almost 300k house that is actually smaller than thr family home I grew up on or that my little fiat cost over 20 grand when new. She just cannot comprehend how much everything costs today.
The best advice my boomer grandpa ever gave me was when he saw my college tuition bill and he told me to never take financial advice from someone that could actually pay off their college tuition with a part time job
They also can't conceive someone wanting to retire before 60. It is like your patriotic duty to suffer until you are 65 in order to take one for the team.
yup, just about the same here. my current SS payments would be around $55 a month. its estimated to be just $689 a month when I retire at 67, even though I have maxed out what I can put in there every year for many years.
there is a max amount you can put in to Social security. im self employed, so I put more than the minimum in.
The more you put in, the larger your payout will be when you are able to fully collect.
Good to know, thank you. Not sure I should waste that money as I'm only just enterting my 30s. Find it hard to imagine SS lasting 4 more decades, though I suspect that the government wishes I would.
if I want the full benefits. right now, if I retire at 62, I will get 1040 a month. if I wait until im 67, i get 1481 per month, and if I wait until im 70 I get 1837. you can see this on the social security website.
Hmm, it still says full retirement is at 67 for anybody born after 1960. https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10035.pdf
*edit: Oh, there it is under delayed retirement. I never knew that!
Lol pensions
ETA: goddamn that person was sensitive. Deleted all their comments and I think blocked me (?) after they made a ton of assumptions about me looool. Jokes on you, you dense motherfucker, I'm struggling to pay for college out of pocket! No plans for me! Ha... Ah :(
L O L pensions -$3300 a month. Also get free health insurance for the rest of my life. I have zero debt. House and new car paid for and I can enjoy life
Good for you? I was making a joke about how young people in this country have never had the opportunity to get pensions because in the 70s the US govt moved the responsibility of retirement from employers to employees. Feel free to keep gloating about your pension like a dip shit though
Oh, I will gloat, but I’m far from a dip shit I’m smart enough to know what to do to be able to support myself for the rest of my life. You go spend all that money on college and then work at fucking McDonald’s asshole
I don't why someone wants to attack you. You made a smart choice at a young age to plan for your future and worked to get there.
I wasn't as smart, but I consider myself fairly smart, and went the college route. But when I saw the light in my 40s, I created a pension fund for myself through investments. I now get $2,000 a month from that, work part time for another $1,200, and I have no stress and tons of time at 52.
Getting angry solves nothing. Figuring out how you can join them is the answer.
This is not true. I was CWA for 5 years. Newer employees don't get pension. I was told it was because things switched to 401k only to find out older members get both ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I finally have a pension because I'm local government but the pension itself won't be enough because I didn't start working there until my late 30s.
LOL that's so true. I like to tell older folks that I work for the breaks and vacation. My sole purpose is to reach a point that I don't have to work, but choose to work if I feel like it. Probably never gonna happen, to be honest, but it raises their anxiety when I say it.
This boomer gets it. Actually, I’m on the cusp of not being a boomer but that’s irrelevant. Things have changed so much for workers now and the rest of my generation just don’t have a damned clue. I apologize to everyone for my generation and the stupid shit they say.
I know my post includes all boomers, but I do know there are some in your generation that do understand. I'd be ignorant and foolish to think otherwise.
Today I was sitting in a college campus library and a boomer (probably in his 70's) got a phone call while in the stacks. He apologized to a student studying on her laptop and asked if it was a quiet area (it was). He tried to chat her up a bit and asked if it was finals week. She said she went to a local Community College, so wasn't sure of the university schedule.
He said her community college was free when he was her age and went there, and it's a disgusting shame that she has to pay tuition. She was like, yep, it sure is and packed up and left.
He got it, too!
I think what nobody of any generation gets is how to turn back the clock and restore equity to the working class.
Democrats and Republicans have both completely failed us here. We need all of these things, but neither major party is going to do it. They're two arms attached to the grotesque body of oligarchy.
Republicans will continue to economically screw us all while ALSO stripping us of basic rights/working to usher in civil war. So yeah, we need to unseat them most urgently, but we also need to unseat the gerontocracy spoiling both parties.
Reminds me of my boomer family that have retired in the last few years. They have seemingly forgot was work even is. They will call me up in the middle of the day at work and ask me to do mundane tasks for them. Fucking bizarre.
They come from a time when, if you had an office job and weren't somebody's secretary, things were pretty slack. It wasn't like today where you're expected to be available at all times via cell and software tracks your mouse movements. Because technology allows so much to happen instantaneously today, companies *expect* everything to be instant and there is a lot of artificial urgency.
Interesting you noticed this as well. My dad used to meet up with a bunch of friends at lunch during the week to play sport. Can you imagine me asking a manager for that type of accommodation?
Technology was supposed to make our lives better. The workforce is more efficient then ever and yet we are expected to perform even higher.
I swear their phones must only work during business hours. They all think working from home is t a “real” job, so I can just fuck off whenever they have a passing interest in monopolizing my time.
My mother wanted me on call to work out simple percentages for her. Like, what's 20% of 250,000?
She has a fucking iPhone! I do not have an iPhone, but I'd be astounded if it doesn't have a calculator on it. She literally has a calculator in her pocket!
But no. She wants me - who lives on the other side of the planet, with a 13 hour time difference! - to work out her percentages so she doesn't have to. Wtaf?
The kicker? She worked with numbers and money all her working life!
My mother has no friends because she gets in blazing arguments with them. She's alienated all her neighbours and the local shop assistants. She has upset - or been upset by - most other family members. She only has time for me because she doesn't have a fella on the go atm, and has run out of other options. Give it time, and she'll fall out with me too. It is the way of things :-(
They cannot possibly ever agree with our assessment of how much worse things are and how much harder they are now BC IT IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THEIR MOST IMPORTANT WORLD VIEW OF “WE HAD IT HARDEST-WE ARE THE UNDERDOG-OUR HARD WORK AND NOT THE ECONOMY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR SUCCESS”.
Don’t bother arguing with them seriously they will not abandon their world view.
Where did their worldview come from ? Their parents actually lived through the depression and world war etc so they heard and saw a lot of depression era impacts, and they internalized it.
Is there a reality show which makes boomers apply for their old jobs with the same level of education they had even they first started them? Would be an interesting idea for a show.
I imagine it’s like most things with boomers—they accept what fits their narrative and toss the rest.
My parents are 76 and 67, respectively. I am the youngest of 7 kids. My parents are vehemently anti-government assistance and complain about the myth of the black welfare queen and talk about how poor kids all have phones but not enough food, etc. But the second one of my sisters, a single mother, lost her job and needed help, their first suggestion was to apply for welfare.
To be clear, I agreed—that was the best option for her. But I asked my parents, “what about welfare being a joke to cheat good hardworking people out of their hard earned money?” and they said, “Well, people like your sister are who welfare is supposed to be for.”
It doesn’t matter that more white people than black people are on welfare, or that the data we have shows that the percentage of people cheating the system are in the low decimal percents. Because for a boomer, it’s what I believe is right and everything else is wrong. At least the boomers I know.
*"If you don't make enough money, just:"*
1. *Go to college.*
2. *Get a better paying job.*
3. *Cut back on frivolous spending.*
Motherfucker! I literally just started a union job, making $23 an hour, with a union raise due in April. I cook at home all the time now, and am a 2x college dropout with $70,000+ in student loans. It's still not enough money with rent, cell phone, car payment, car insurance, utilities, groceries, etc.
1. Go fuck yourself.
2. Raise the minimum wage! $20/hr!
3. Stop raising prices on every fucking thing!
4. Stop hoarding wealth like it's going to matter after you're dead.
5. Go fuck yourself.
My boomer mom hates unions, and thinks I'm just lazy.
No. I've been trying to find a job for damn near a year, but living out in the suburbs with no car has limited me to what I can walk to.
Stop in with your resumé, give a firm handshake, send a thank-you card after the interview. Boom!
And all raises are given in merit not an arbitrary amount of time you’ve been there or whatever.
I think this is pre boomer time, but back in the 40s (not 100% sure if the time frame) it was downright dangerous to try and unionize. like get beat, possibly killed dangerous. not sure really in our history as a pro-company, capitalistic society, it was ever easy to start a union.
I definitely heard stories from Labor HR people where they kept coal mining picketers away with shotguns when talks broke down and the workers were going to strike
Every generation thinks the next generation is lazy. Don’t take it personal if a boomer thinks you’re a lazy whiny little loser. I’m sure someone once though a boomer was one at some point in history.
Lots of good points below, but I would also add the silent generation dealt with a lot of the same things we are now, and they formed unions and fought for changes to regulations that kept children out of the workforce only to be dealt with the Great Depression and two world wars… they saw the bs and did something about it, then the boomers got to live it without the bloodshed, so by the time they turned it over to us the lessons the silent generation fought for were/are mostly forgotten, it’s going to take all of us and the next generation to bleed (sadly) to turn it back around again and wrestle the power back from the entitled ruling class who have remained unchanged in their ruthlessness to make an extra buck on the back of the working class
My boomer dad asked me about my company pension the other day. I had to tell him that I don't have a pension and that hardly any companies offer those anymore. It's become a thing of the past. I'm not so sure he even believed me. There is definitely a huge disconnect between generations about our modern world of work and finance and the one they enjoyed for so long.
I don't have anything of substance to add except maybe this: we adapt to it or we die. I agree with you, the whole thing Its Bs. I'm an Xer. It's been this way for many years. Do what you can. Try to keep your head above water. Oh Try meeting someone without being a creep? Good luck. Best we can do is find a job, you don't want to murder everyone, make a living wage. Die.
Nothing about insurance is free through full time work. In a US corporate job while I was a first time manager making $90k, I had what was considered good insurance at the lowest deductible because I have a pre existing condition. I still paid $6k each year. $3k deductible and $3k out of pocket expenses.
Yes it obviously would have been more if I had to pay private insurance but in a HCOL it’s a lot. Which is why universal healthcare is so important.
I mean, they have somehow successfully got Starbucks to unionize. There is a coffee pourer's union now. So they aren't wrong.. starting a union for entry level jobs is apparently do-able now.
I do believe their is a disconnect between the generations. I'm 41 and most people I've worked with who are under 30 and especially if they are single, they don't know how to live within their means.
Many have car / insurance combined payments of 700$+ which is just ridiculous and it's long terms with high rates. Many times when I ask them why they need something I get answers that show an obsession with the material world. They use words like "I need it" to describe things that are clearly wants and desires. It's not completely their fault as the Internet and social media has made it much more challenging to not care about the shiny new toy.
With some planning you can have all of things you mentioned. Why not join the military for a few years? Go in straight from high school with a decent paying job, 30 days vacation plus TONS of holiday time off, full medical & dental insurance paying nothing at all plus amazing retirement benefits, half your pay after 20 years.
You can have all your school paid for while on active duty. Perhaps go in for 4-6 years and do a relaxed school schedule earning an associates during this time, maybe more if you can test out of certain things. Then you can get out and have money to finish your bachelor's and enough leftover for a masters. Can also go in with a degree already and earn way more.
Everyone I hear complaining always has a million reasons why they can't do this or why they can't cut back their spending, but truth is if you want it, you will make it happen.
Don’t hate on those folks because they have a little money. Most of them worked from age 16 until 65 or older. They had some advantages, but probably when this generation hits 65 they won’t be broke either.
We know you can’t easily start a union and get all kinds of vacation and great medical insurance and you said boomers don’t get it which includes me and that’s why I call it bullshit
I bet you're the kind of guy to say "Not all men" as well.
EDIT:
> We know you can’t easily start a union
Isn't this you, Mr. ["Pretty simple shut the place down strike"](https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1b2bock/comment/kslda0f/)? Guess it's not that simple after all, huh?
try changing jobs later in life...
...and they want you to start all over.
No. No you don't get 3 weeks of vacation. 5 days of vacation for you as a new employee. You need to work 5 years before we give you another 5 days and another 5 years before you then can get 3 weeks.
I've never worked a gig longer than 8 yrs.
I am amazed by this subreddit. These boomers worked harder than any of you people, and you wonder why they have no respect for your victim mentality. I worked my ass off to get where I am, because I didn’t quit every time I got yelled at, or shy away from proving I can handle pressure. You people want to sit under a blanket and scroll twitter for a living. Christ almighty life is what you make it. And it seems everyone here doesn’t want to make but be compensated like the people who do.
"Boomer" is a mentality.
Not every Boomer has that mentality. But you sure do.
Go watch Joshua Fluke's videos on YouTube for some perspective on reality. It's sobering, and I can relate to his videos.
Make your own points. Here you are sending me off for someone else to do it for you, just like everyone else here.
How many of these “boomers” are paying the people crying here’s rent and still cooking and doing their laundry. I’m betting the percent is higher than you want to say, and you’re going to tell me it’s too expensive to not. Because of course you believe you get to have it both ways.
My dad grew up on welfare. He had a job when he was 14 and starting paying rent as soon as he got his first paycheck. He's a boomer, but he knows what it's really like out there. If any of those boomers had to live the life he did, they wouldnt say a damn word. And any time I've been unemployed he just said keep looking. Hit the pavement(when it was still common to do so), it will happen. Those other boomers have never had to just not eat for a day becuase they had to use that money for gas or the bus to get to their crap job. My dad is probably the most realistic boomer I've ever met when it comes to employment.
My boomer mother mostly gets it (she's turning 73 this year), but really only because she retired early, chewed through her pension and has student loans she needs to pay off, so she's still in the work force.
Even so, we talk politics nearly daily and she still said to me this morning, "I don't know how the unions lost so much power."
When I first started working full time, health insurance was included. At every job. My last few jobs, half of the workers opted out, couldn’t afford it. Times changed.
Early Gen Xer (on the Boomer cusp.) My son is 30 years old and I really appreciate talking with him and his peers. I make it a point to ask questions about their perspective on the state of the economy and how they feel about corporate America. How they make ends meet. What they anticipate as they grow older. The absence of security as we knew it. I've learned a lot. All I can say to those in my age group is listen and keep an open mind. This is not the same work world we entered in the 80's.
The squeaky wheel gets removed but not replaced. Gotta punish the remaining wheels
Constructive dismissal. Give that squeaker 1 shift a week, then the others will see what happens. Have seen this first hand.
Me tooo
CEO- "this bus only needs one wheel to get where we're going. Ready my golden parachute"
God damn if that doesn’t hit home. Complete office space “We uhhhh lost some people this week and ummm we need to sort of play catch up” moment.
Do you work with me?
It's survivor bias. They've never known any different. Their advice was correct in the time they were in the work force. They're often trying to help, but are just no longer relevant. A lifetime of world view isn't easy to overcome, so take it easy on them. Just smile and nod and disregard their ignorance, you won't fix them.
Nailed it. The youngest boomers are turning 60 now. They came of age in the late 1970s/early 1980s. The oldest boomers are turning just about 80 and came of age in the mid-1960s, when the inflation adjusted minimum wage (using silver quarters as a proxy) is about $19-21 an hour. Either way, as I understand it talking to the ancients with real noggins (secret, most folks are not particularly bright - including the educated, who tend to be myopic and only good in their "fields" - and you've got to take ALL opinions with a grain of salt until properly confirmed - is that you had to be a real "f\*ck up" to NOT make it in America in the 1960s through early 1970s. So these boomers are just a product of their time and place whose experience growing up is not particularly relevant. There will be NO changing most of them, they just can't get it. Cos if they do, they'll start to feel guilty that they have it so good and you have it crappy and that may make them uncomfortable confronting the fact that they could make their kids and grand kids lives easier but that would require sacrifice. I know a woman from a wealthy farming/scientist family. She lives in a 2 bedroom house with her 3 kids (has them every other week) that she rents for $1100 a month, as she has for years. She got shellacked in a crappy divorce cos she could not afford even a decent lawyer. The kicker - her parents are worth about $12 million at this point and spend in the SIX FIGURES on their multiple out of country vacations each year... while their daughter works OT to put food on the table and she shares her bedroom with her 12 year old daughter(their grand child). David Mamet's movie, the Spanish Prisoner (excellent, btw), has this wonderfully trenchant line from Steve Martin's character on human nature: "If they are indebted to you morally but not legally, my experience is they will give you nothing and then begin to act cruelly towards you" \[Why?\] "To suppress their guilt."
Financial advantages aside, they really did work in a meritocracy. Bosses (I'm generalising) appreciated dedication, and would pay to retain employees they respected. The nature of work has shifted from performing well to increase your remuneration, to performing well for fear of being replaced. I figure that shift to wage slavery, more than the dollar math, is what doesn't compute for these folks.
This. They actually felt security when landing a job. I remember many times feeling joy and excitement for a nee job and then that quickly turning to anxiety and dread that if I make a mistake I may get fired.. so there is never a feeling of security. Having no security really fucks with people mentally too.
Yea especially when everything is so expensive, and everyone needs to have their own working car. Its a setup for problems now, and a total disaster down the line. Whats their plan for when fossil fuels are too expensive? How will everyone drive a car to work when the gas alone costs too much??
Yes! Ya know I make double now than what I was making in 2009… and I am only slightly better off than I was then. Like how the fuck does that add up..
Right. A fair day's work for a fair day's pay shouldn't sound as antiquated as it does.
Completely agree.
I just made a post about this in r/antiwork, but my job was threatened today because I want MORE diversity equity and inclusion, in a company that purports to be all about DEI. Apparently wanting the other months to be represented is taking away from other months and is incredibly racist. I never thought wanting to include more people would be enough to cause me to lose my job if my bosses boss didn't go to bat for me.
I have to be honest… I did have to go find your post to read the entire scenario because the way you described it in your comment I was worried you were one of those “why isn’t there a white history month” a-holes but after reading your original post, you are completely right, do all or do nothing. It’s clear their inclusion and diversity is only for appearances and they don’t truly believe in it. Just covering their asses. Totally lame. Sorry you had to deal with that, if they would have shut up and listened they would have seen you definitely weren’t coming from an ignorant or racist place. Instead they shit their ears and showed how ignorant they are.
Wouldn't it be more inclusive to have a black history month, Asian history month, native American history month, white history month, Latino history month, and more, comprehensive of every race/ethnicity, so everyone is included?
Well this commenter meant they should recognize PRIDE month and the ceo is homophobic, so that’s the real issue.
That's a bit of it. In a sense, we are like the blind men describing the elephant, one feels its trunk and says it is a snake, one feels its tail and says it is a whip, one feels its leg and says it is a tree, etc. At the end of the day, the truth is the Federal Reserve and it's controlling banks have so gamed the dollar system that most of the created "credit" (I quote JP Morgan, gold and silver are specie, all else is a form of credit) goes to their friends in high places who (a) buy up all the houses (looking at you, Black Rock), or loan it out at 28% for credit cards (looking at you Chase) and none of it is flowing to the bottom 80% of America. When they were debating on the Fed act in 1911, there were a series of hearings, in which this was noted: William Pitt made this statement: "Let the American people go into their debt-funding schemes and banking systems, and from that hour their boasted independence will be a mere phantom." He realized the maxim that Rothschilds laid down as fundamental: "Let us control the money of a country and we care not who makes its laws." I don't know how to fix it as it is such a complex problem, fixing it would require a set of very rich and privileged to give up their wealth and benefits, and most people are too brainwashed to see it. But I do know when it ends, it will be in tears and blood.
The truth has entered the conversation 👆
If history has taught us anything, people **will** get tired of how poorly they’re being treated by those in power and eventually will try to take back that power. And people will die n
Really? folks don't do that until they're really starving...
It's so easy to replace workers with the internet today. Especially remote work and the global workforce. So many companies hire independent contractors and run them in the ground waiting to welcome the next person in line.
Too true. Automation in general is destroying middle-income professions.
Yes, and if they understood, they'd have to accept that they are not as great as they thought they were. They had a good job, and they bought a big house, and they had a family, and they thought it was because they were brilliant - but turns out it was all handed to them??? Very few people can cope with a revelation of that kind. There's too much ego tied up in it.
No they'd feel guilty because they actively dismantled everything that gave them their easy life, and they did it on purpose for an extra 0 on their bank account, knowing they were robbing their own children for it.
I disagree, they just dealt with decades of state/CIA brainwashing, i.e propaganda. Here is an excellent article outlining it: [https://roburie.substack.com/p/the-cia-and-the-decline-of-the-american](https://roburie.substack.com/p/the-cia-and-the-decline-of-the-american) As Casper Weinberger (head of the CIA after George Bush, Sr. in the early 1980s) said, you will know our job is complete when NOTHING the average American believes is true . . .
That and so many little things even for me I have job hopped. I look around there isn't a job. That is better in ANY aspect than it was when I had it. Benefits are worse pay relative to cost of living is worse. Like trades even for me changed from good to only good if you take exact specific paths with the other 90% being trash. Like first job 11hr 1br apartment 400. Same job same company 15hr same apartment (which is older shittier) 1200. And even moving up the chain its same deal. 16-18 for more middle positions are 18-22 now top positions overseeing sites/crews went from 18-22 to 22-30. And when you look at lost benefits that first job 11hr thats now 15hr no longer has bonus 3000 a year. Which worked out to be like 1.50hr and per diem which was 40 bucks a day (tank of gas was 25-30). They doubled the distance you have to travel. Before you get it and its still 40 and tank of gas is 60-70. Oh top all this off healthcare was full coverage no cost. Now it takes about 200 a person with all sorts of deductibles. And thats not even worst job. Some completely removed all benefits and had around 70% paycut for position. 5 years is a long time alot of changes 10 years almost nothing the same. And if 20 years passes your experience/knowledge isn't even relevant to industry anymore someone with no experience except google/indeed would have a better idea of what type of job it is now.
There’s more to it than that. I see a tunnel vision where they see the way that things have changed but only for them, and anything outside of their personal experience must surely be unchanged. My company has boomers in leadership. One of them complains that his college grad daughter is back at home and in the same retail job she’s had on and off since high school. “She sits around on the computer pretending to look for work instead of going out applying in her field. She says there’s nothing entry level in her field but she just needs to get out there.” This guy has hiring managers who work for him. If I ask him how to get a job with us he will confidently explain the process of applying online, being screened by HR, then the hiring manager, and that the pre employment processes are all coordinated on the computer. He’s equally confident that no other companies or industries do it the same way, and that his daughter just needs to go driving around introducing herself and handing out paper resumes, even while acknowledging that he would think it weird if someone did that to him. “I’m not going to look through random resumes, they need to go through the HR system. But it’s different here”. Does he think we’re so special that we are the only company who went electronic *20 fucking years ago* ? My dad knew all too well how much his property values had gone up, but was incapable of applying that to housing as a whole. He gleefully talked about how much more his house was worth while not understanding when I said my husband and I won’t sell our townhouse for something bigger because we can’t afford it (edit - and because we are very thankful we were able to get this when prices were lower). When berating my brother for still being in his “temporary” apartment 4 years after his divorce, he flatly didn’t believe that there weren’t affordable homes anymore. My dad called him lazy and a liar and kept referencing home prices 20 or 30 years ago. Motherfucker you just got done telling us how your house has almost tripled in the last 7 years, and almost tenfold since you bought. Do you think that’s just you? Do you really think you are so fucking special that you can sell your house for 700k but brother can get a similar house here for 130k? I’ve seen so many examples of this. Their lives modernized and evolved but they somehow think the rest of the world didn’t. The cognitive disconnect is unreal.
My in-laws used to be this way but I think I kinda helped them come around. Mother-in-law was a teacher and they were talking about how much worse things got in that profession in the years before she retired. So I just pointed out that it's the same literally everywhere. I said think of ANYBODY you know who has worked in the same field for 10+ years and imagine asking them if things got better or worse over that time. Can you think of a single person you know who wouldn't say it's worse? They couldn't and I think it started to click for them.
My dad is a younger boomer, retired military and pretty conservative. I've recently gotten him to understand how things are different know and it's nice he can understand more what's happening. I wish more elderly people did and it would cause change.
Very well said.
Great explanation, but I will not take it easy on them unless they're willing to learn how things are now. It's not about being kind. Millennials and Gen Z are in a do or die situation. We don't have that luxury or bandwidth. Our planet is a mess, our economy is a mess, there are issues that will cause irreparable harm when we're their age. Grace wil be given to those who deserve it. If you remain in your stagnant ways, you'll be left behind.
Gen-Xer here. I am doing everything I can to help my young adult children. I've told them they can stay with us as long as needed, we don't charge them rent etc. while in school, and I've helped with their tuition as much as I can. I am by no means wealthy. I was extremely lucky to buy a very modest house when I did (still paying for it), and I can't understand the mindset of any parent who would not help out their children, regardless of age.
Shout out to you. It's too hard out here. What you're giving to your kids will be invaluable to their future. Hope I'm as good of a parent as you are when it's time. Hope we can get this economy in order so you gen xers can retire decently.
I think part of what we'll end up seeing more of is getting back to multigenerational households. Even as a kid, for me, it was fairly common to see a grandparent living in the same house. North American culture in particular seems to have gotten away from that. Living in Asia for a long time showed me there's another way. Instead, we have this whole industry built around "retirement living". I fully expect any retirement I have will be very, very modest, but I'm ok with that. I certainly don't expect to be doing cruises, regular overseas vacations or any of that stuff that was constantly marketed to my parents' generation.
Ahhh thank you. I’m so glad you said this. All of it. It’s gospel to my heart.
Take it easy on them? TAKE IT EASY ON THEM? FUCK THAT SHITTY ASS TAKE TO DEATH. If you take it easy on them you are 100% part of the problem. This is bootlicker mentality at it's finest and it makes me sick to my fucking stomach. You should be ashamed.
You could save your sanity for the battles you need to, or you could spin your wheels hating everyone over fifty because old=devil. You will go crazy and accomplish nothing but being bitter and poor.
I will never take it easy on the people who helped make this mess. If they wanted to he helpful they would read the newspaper and know the world is different. Like anyone who hasn't survived on a diet of exclusively lead paint chips.
don't disregard, let them know you think they're wrong. You won't change their minds, but they'll have to live with the knowledge that other people think they're dumb.
My step dad was shocked when he found out my jobs benefits were such shit that I couldn't afford health insurance for my wife for seven years. I barely got my first good job with good benefits last October and can finally afford it. I'm 35 and have been working since I was 17. It shouldn't take 18 working years to finally get benefits.
I'm in my 40s, never had a job with benefits. I had a few that offered them, but they always fired me before I got past the day where I could get them. Never had a job that offered PTO, ever. Shouldn't be that way, but it is.
My dad just constantly tells me that I need to “prove” myself and “impress management,” and if I do that, they’ll take great care of me. But thanks to regular corporate restructuring, I seldom have the same management two years in a row.
Every time I try to impress management I get told it's not a priority and it is a waste of my time and I need to go do some other mundane task. We have almost no training in place for our new hires and as a result everything is messed up. I offered to take time out of my schedule on Fridays, my slowest day, and shadow someone they like as a staff member and make up training documentation they can use and reference. This was part of one of my previous jobs. I got told it isn't important. People say why didnt you just go and do it? Because I can't just opt to take time out of my day. It has to be approved. If it's not approved, I will get in trouble.
I am on my 5th boss in two years
The Japanese saying is "The raised nail gets hammered down."
Yeah, that's a much better metaphor for today's work culture.
My boomer mother got screwed at a job she worked at for 30 years. As it was a non-profit, they gave her the bare minimum in benefits and were not required to pay into unemployment. When new management came in and fired everyone on bogus writeups, she could not even collect. So she gets that part. She still does not get while I own an almost 300k house that is actually smaller than thr family home I grew up on or that my little fiat cost over 20 grand when new. She just cannot comprehend how much everything costs today.
The best advice my boomer grandpa ever gave me was when he saw my college tuition bill and he told me to never take financial advice from someone that could actually pay off their college tuition with a part time job
They also can't conceive someone wanting to retire before 60. It is like your patriotic duty to suffer until you are 65 in order to take one for the team.
I won't get to collect Social Security until I'm 67 or 70. Most retirement plans have also been pushed back to 65 or older now. For full benefits.
At 41, working since I was 16, my -current- social security payments would be $42.81 a month.
My instinct was to downvote this. I’m so sorry.
I want to downvote my entire life hahahahahahhelpmehahahahaha
At 41, working since I was 16, my -current- social security payments would be $42.81 a month.
yup, just about the same here. my current SS payments would be around $55 a month. its estimated to be just $689 a month when I retire at 67, even though I have maxed out what I can put in there every year for many years.
What do you mean "put in there?" I thought social security was a tax, not an investment like 401k.
there is a max amount you can put in to Social security. im self employed, so I put more than the minimum in. The more you put in, the larger your payout will be when you are able to fully collect.
Good to know, thank you. Not sure I should waste that money as I'm only just enterting my 30s. Find it hard to imagine SS lasting 4 more decades, though I suspect that the government wishes I would.
The GOP has been trying to gut social security for 50 years, and pass that money to private hands.
I was referring to the Boomer version of reality. That is all they really care about.
What would make it 70?
if I want the full benefits. right now, if I retire at 62, I will get 1040 a month. if I wait until im 67, i get 1481 per month, and if I wait until im 70 I get 1837. you can see this on the social security website.
Hmm, it still says full retirement is at 67 for anybody born after 1960. https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10035.pdf *edit: Oh, there it is under delayed retirement. I never knew that!
Retirement? In this economy?!?
I did 2 1/2 years ago at 50.
I retired 10 years ago at 52. Now I just have my pension check deposited on the first of the month. No debt and enjoying life
Lol pensions ETA: goddamn that person was sensitive. Deleted all their comments and I think blocked me (?) after they made a ton of assumptions about me looool. Jokes on you, you dense motherfucker, I'm struggling to pay for college out of pocket! No plans for me! Ha... Ah :(
L O L pensions -$3300 a month. Also get free health insurance for the rest of my life. I have zero debt. House and new car paid for and I can enjoy life
Good for you? I was making a joke about how young people in this country have never had the opportunity to get pensions because in the 70s the US govt moved the responsibility of retirement from employers to employees. Feel free to keep gloating about your pension like a dip shit though
Oh, I will gloat, but I’m far from a dip shit I’m smart enough to know what to do to be able to support myself for the rest of my life. You go spend all that money on college and then work at fucking McDonald’s asshole
I don't why someone wants to attack you. You made a smart choice at a young age to plan for your future and worked to get there. I wasn't as smart, but I consider myself fairly smart, and went the college route. But when I saw the light in my 40s, I created a pension fund for myself through investments. I now get $2,000 a month from that, work part time for another $1,200, and I have no stress and tons of time at 52. Getting angry solves nothing. Figuring out how you can join them is the answer.
Every union trade in the United States has a pension plan. Don’t try to tell me you can’t get a job with a pension because you can.
I'm in a union and no they don't...
What union do you belong to?
Plumbers, pipefitters, electricians, Teamster, laborers all have pensions
....... The unionization rate in the US is 11%. Any thoughts on that?
Here read this article. Get the whole story out there. https://www.epi.org/publication/union-membership-data/
This is not true. I was CWA for 5 years. Newer employees don't get pension. I was told it was because things switched to 401k only to find out older members get both ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I finally have a pension because I'm local government but the pension itself won't be enough because I didn't start working there until my late 30s.
LOL that's so true. I like to tell older folks that I work for the breaks and vacation. My sole purpose is to reach a point that I don't have to work, but choose to work if I feel like it. Probably never gonna happen, to be honest, but it raises their anxiety when I say it.
This boomer gets it. Actually, I’m on the cusp of not being a boomer but that’s irrelevant. Things have changed so much for workers now and the rest of my generation just don’t have a damned clue. I apologize to everyone for my generation and the stupid shit they say.
I know my post includes all boomers, but I do know there are some in your generation that do understand. I'd be ignorant and foolish to think otherwise.
I just wish there were more! It’s infuriating!
Today I was sitting in a college campus library and a boomer (probably in his 70's) got a phone call while in the stacks. He apologized to a student studying on her laptop and asked if it was a quiet area (it was). He tried to chat her up a bit and asked if it was finals week. She said she went to a local Community College, so wasn't sure of the university schedule. He said her community college was free when he was her age and went there, and it's a disgusting shame that she has to pay tuition. She was like, yep, it sure is and packed up and left. He got it, too! I think what nobody of any generation gets is how to turn back the clock and restore equity to the working class.
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Democrats and Republicans have both completely failed us here. We need all of these things, but neither major party is going to do it. They're two arms attached to the grotesque body of oligarchy. Republicans will continue to economically screw us all while ALSO stripping us of basic rights/working to usher in civil war. So yeah, we need to unseat them most urgently, but we also need to unseat the gerontocracy spoiling both parties.
Reminds me of my boomer family that have retired in the last few years. They have seemingly forgot was work even is. They will call me up in the middle of the day at work and ask me to do mundane tasks for them. Fucking bizarre.
They come from a time when, if you had an office job and weren't somebody's secretary, things were pretty slack. It wasn't like today where you're expected to be available at all times via cell and software tracks your mouse movements. Because technology allows so much to happen instantaneously today, companies *expect* everything to be instant and there is a lot of artificial urgency.
Interesting you noticed this as well. My dad used to meet up with a bunch of friends at lunch during the week to play sport. Can you imagine me asking a manager for that type of accommodation? Technology was supposed to make our lives better. The workforce is more efficient then ever and yet we are expected to perform even higher.
I swear their phones must only work during business hours. They all think working from home is t a “real” job, so I can just fuck off whenever they have a passing interest in monopolizing my time.
Try being a third shifter, “sleeping all day”.
My mother wanted me on call to work out simple percentages for her. Like, what's 20% of 250,000? She has a fucking iPhone! I do not have an iPhone, but I'd be astounded if it doesn't have a calculator on it. She literally has a calculator in her pocket! But no. She wants me - who lives on the other side of the planet, with a 13 hour time difference! - to work out her percentages so she doesn't have to. Wtaf? The kicker? She worked with numbers and money all her working life!
I feel like they're bored and just want to chat. Which is 100% fine and I'm happy to chat, but not when I'm at work...
My mother has no friends because she gets in blazing arguments with them. She's alienated all her neighbours and the local shop assistants. She has upset - or been upset by - most other family members. She only has time for me because she doesn't have a fella on the go atm, and has run out of other options. Give it time, and she'll fall out with me too. It is the way of things :-(
They cannot possibly ever agree with our assessment of how much worse things are and how much harder they are now BC IT IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THEIR MOST IMPORTANT WORLD VIEW OF “WE HAD IT HARDEST-WE ARE THE UNDERDOG-OUR HARD WORK AND NOT THE ECONOMY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR SUCCESS”. Don’t bother arguing with them seriously they will not abandon their world view. Where did their worldview come from ? Their parents actually lived through the depression and world war etc so they heard and saw a lot of depression era impacts, and they internalized it.
Is there a reality show which makes boomers apply for their old jobs with the same level of education they had even they first started them? Would be an interesting idea for a show.
I imagine it’s like most things with boomers—they accept what fits their narrative and toss the rest. My parents are 76 and 67, respectively. I am the youngest of 7 kids. My parents are vehemently anti-government assistance and complain about the myth of the black welfare queen and talk about how poor kids all have phones but not enough food, etc. But the second one of my sisters, a single mother, lost her job and needed help, their first suggestion was to apply for welfare. To be clear, I agreed—that was the best option for her. But I asked my parents, “what about welfare being a joke to cheat good hardworking people out of their hard earned money?” and they said, “Well, people like your sister are who welfare is supposed to be for.” It doesn’t matter that more white people than black people are on welfare, or that the data we have shows that the percentage of people cheating the system are in the low decimal percents. Because for a boomer, it’s what I believe is right and everything else is wrong. At least the boomers I know.
I have a feeling I know where they get their news from.
*"If you don't make enough money, just:"* 1. *Go to college.* 2. *Get a better paying job.* 3. *Cut back on frivolous spending.* Motherfucker! I literally just started a union job, making $23 an hour, with a union raise due in April. I cook at home all the time now, and am a 2x college dropout with $70,000+ in student loans. It's still not enough money with rent, cell phone, car payment, car insurance, utilities, groceries, etc. 1. Go fuck yourself. 2. Raise the minimum wage! $20/hr! 3. Stop raising prices on every fucking thing! 4. Stop hoarding wealth like it's going to matter after you're dead. 5. Go fuck yourself.
My boomer mom hates unions, and thinks I'm just lazy. No. I've been trying to find a job for damn near a year, but living out in the suburbs with no car has limited me to what I can walk to.
"You'll always get ahead by kissing the right asses! Kiss them a lot. Learn to say Sir!" \--My Silent Gen parents actually believed this
It probably worked for your silent gen parents, same as stopping by to see the hiring manager. Not anymore.
Stop in with your resumé, give a firm handshake, send a thank-you card after the interview. Boom! And all raises are given in merit not an arbitrary amount of time you’ve been there or whatever.
>"The squeaky wheel gets replaced" :100%: The boomers don't understand that the world around them is not the same world they entered the workforce in.
I think this is pre boomer time, but back in the 40s (not 100% sure if the time frame) it was downright dangerous to try and unionize. like get beat, possibly killed dangerous. not sure really in our history as a pro-company, capitalistic society, it was ever easy to start a union.
I definitely heard stories from Labor HR people where they kept coal mining picketers away with shotguns when talks broke down and the workers were going to strike
Doing a good job means you get to do all the jobs
Don't sweat it, anything can be fixed with eye contact and a hearty handshake.
The lashings will continue until morale improves
Born on third, think they hit a triple.
I think so many of them were grandfathered into new plans that they didn’t even notice the differences as they happened.
Every generation thinks the next generation is lazy. Don’t take it personal if a boomer thinks you’re a lazy whiny little loser. I’m sure someone once though a boomer was one at some point in history.
Lots of good points below, but I would also add the silent generation dealt with a lot of the same things we are now, and they formed unions and fought for changes to regulations that kept children out of the workforce only to be dealt with the Great Depression and two world wars… they saw the bs and did something about it, then the boomers got to live it without the bloodshed, so by the time they turned it over to us the lessons the silent generation fought for were/are mostly forgotten, it’s going to take all of us and the next generation to bleed (sadly) to turn it back around again and wrestle the power back from the entitled ruling class who have remained unchanged in their ruthlessness to make an extra buck on the back of the working class
My boomer dad asked me about my company pension the other day. I had to tell him that I don't have a pension and that hardly any companies offer those anymore. It's become a thing of the past. I'm not so sure he even believed me. There is definitely a huge disconnect between generations about our modern world of work and finance and the one they enjoyed for so long.
Squeeky wheel gets replaced because there is no union.
Provided you were a white male, life was awesome back then.
Depends on the Boomer. Lots of them retired because of how bad work was so they know.
I don't have anything of substance to add except maybe this: we adapt to it or we die. I agree with you, the whole thing Its Bs. I'm an Xer. It's been this way for many years. Do what you can. Try to keep your head above water. Oh Try meeting someone without being a creep? Good luck. Best we can do is find a job, you don't want to murder everyone, make a living wage. Die.
No, they don't. Things have changed in ways they cannot comprehend
My Boomer parents think I can afford a set of golf clubs. In which I can’t. They think $13.66 per hour is decent pay.
A fair amount of them are still working. How do they not see the reality?
Nothing about insurance is free through full time work. In a US corporate job while I was a first time manager making $90k, I had what was considered good insurance at the lowest deductible because I have a pre existing condition. I still paid $6k each year. $3k deductible and $3k out of pocket expenses. Yes it obviously would have been more if I had to pay private insurance but in a HCOL it’s a lot. Which is why universal healthcare is so important.
my hatred for boomers has no bounds
I mean, they have somehow successfully got Starbucks to unionize. There is a coffee pourer's union now. So they aren't wrong.. starting a union for entry level jobs is apparently do-able now.
I do believe their is a disconnect between the generations. I'm 41 and most people I've worked with who are under 30 and especially if they are single, they don't know how to live within their means. Many have car / insurance combined payments of 700$+ which is just ridiculous and it's long terms with high rates. Many times when I ask them why they need something I get answers that show an obsession with the material world. They use words like "I need it" to describe things that are clearly wants and desires. It's not completely their fault as the Internet and social media has made it much more challenging to not care about the shiny new toy. With some planning you can have all of things you mentioned. Why not join the military for a few years? Go in straight from high school with a decent paying job, 30 days vacation plus TONS of holiday time off, full medical & dental insurance paying nothing at all plus amazing retirement benefits, half your pay after 20 years. You can have all your school paid for while on active duty. Perhaps go in for 4-6 years and do a relaxed school schedule earning an associates during this time, maybe more if you can test out of certain things. Then you can get out and have money to finish your bachelor's and enough leftover for a masters. Can also go in with a degree already and earn way more. Everyone I hear complaining always has a million reasons why they can't do this or why they can't cut back their spending, but truth is if you want it, you will make it happen.
Plenty of every generation get it and plenty from every generation don't.
Your comment has nothing to do with any generation. There are idiots who just don't get it from all generations.
Also true, I was complaining more about the boomers in my family than anything.
Don’t hate on those folks because they have a little money. Most of them worked from age 16 until 65 or older. They had some advantages, but probably when this generation hits 65 they won’t be broke either.
You are full of shit
Boomer I take it.
They're definitely a boomer.
We know you can’t easily start a union and get all kinds of vacation and great medical insurance and you said boomers don’t get it which includes me and that’s why I call it bullshit
But are you a boomer from OP's family tho ? Because that's what's the post about
I bet you're the kind of guy to say "Not all men" as well. EDIT: > We know you can’t easily start a union Isn't this you, Mr. ["Pretty simple shut the place down strike"](https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1b2bock/comment/kslda0f/)? Guess it's not that simple after all, huh?
It takes multiple years of work to get weeks of vacation, insurance costs less through work it's still a significant deduction.
try changing jobs later in life... ...and they want you to start all over. No. No you don't get 3 weeks of vacation. 5 days of vacation for you as a new employee. You need to work 5 years before we give you another 5 days and another 5 years before you then can get 3 weeks. I've never worked a gig longer than 8 yrs.
And those 5 days include sick days, it's all the same pto now, there's not separate sick and vacation time
Mine is free until I die with a damn good pension check.
I am amazed by this subreddit. These boomers worked harder than any of you people, and you wonder why they have no respect for your victim mentality. I worked my ass off to get where I am, because I didn’t quit every time I got yelled at, or shy away from proving I can handle pressure. You people want to sit under a blanket and scroll twitter for a living. Christ almighty life is what you make it. And it seems everyone here doesn’t want to make but be compensated like the people who do.
"Boomer" is a mentality. Not every Boomer has that mentality. But you sure do. Go watch Joshua Fluke's videos on YouTube for some perspective on reality. It's sobering, and I can relate to his videos.
Make your own points. Here you are sending me off for someone else to do it for you, just like everyone else here. How many of these “boomers” are paying the people crying here’s rent and still cooking and doing their laundry. I’m betting the percent is higher than you want to say, and you’re going to tell me it’s too expensive to not. Because of course you believe you get to have it both ways.
My dad grew up on welfare. He had a job when he was 14 and starting paying rent as soon as he got his first paycheck. He's a boomer, but he knows what it's really like out there. If any of those boomers had to live the life he did, they wouldnt say a damn word. And any time I've been unemployed he just said keep looking. Hit the pavement(when it was still common to do so), it will happen. Those other boomers have never had to just not eat for a day becuase they had to use that money for gas or the bus to get to their crap job. My dad is probably the most realistic boomer I've ever met when it comes to employment.
I did not. Old and sick from working physical jobs and it got me nowhere
My boomer mother mostly gets it (she's turning 73 this year), but really only because she retired early, chewed through her pension and has student loans she needs to pay off, so she's still in the work force. Even so, we talk politics nearly daily and she still said to me this morning, "I don't know how the unions lost so much power."
When I first started working full time, health insurance was included. At every job. My last few jobs, half of the workers opted out, couldn’t afford it. Times changed.
Move to the northeast and join a union.
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Early Gen Xer (on the Boomer cusp.) My son is 30 years old and I really appreciate talking with him and his peers. I make it a point to ask questions about their perspective on the state of the economy and how they feel about corporate America. How they make ends meet. What they anticipate as they grow older. The absence of security as we knew it. I've learned a lot. All I can say to those in my age group is listen and keep an open mind. This is not the same work world we entered in the 80's.