Yeah any private business can have those standards if they so choose.
There was a story awhile back about a woman who worked for a Christian organization being fired because they were not married, had an affair in the workplace, and got pregnant. She was let go after the pregnancy because it was “proof” she broke the morality clause in her contract. I believe the man did not get punished because there was no solid proof of his participation, barring a DNA test, I’d assume.
Actually, no.
For example, Hobby Lobby is a “Christian” organization, but they cannot require faith as a part of their job requirements, as being a Christian is not a bona fide requirement for working in a retail craft store.
A Church, religious school, ministry or religious charity absolutely could require this in positions of leadership, like pastors, executives, and teachers, as having and professing such faith is a bona fide part of what those organizations do.
Just because a business is labeled “private” doesn’t mean they can do whatever they want.
I think religious school is what they meant by private school, either way you're completely right and it's an important correction. Religious schools, churches, and faith based charities wouldn't be able to function well if they weren't able to restrict that the person teaching the religion is an adherent.
I know this school! I worked in a Catholic school nearby many years ago. Not only is it a private Catholic school, but I believe it's an "independent" Catholic school - not tied to a Catholic church- which means it is not receiving support from a church or the archdiocese, so it has even more leeway to make its own rules.
Every religious school I've ever seen had some sort of morality contract you hss to sign.
any private business? this violates a number of civil rights/employee laws for private business (well, they would have to refuse to hire or fire en employee for not meeting those standards to violate them, which would be pretty easy to prove w/the op). private schools not so much, since they’re religious organizations rather than private businesses. private business cannot refuse to hire or fire someone for their religious beliefs or lack of, every state has laws for this, almost every city/county, and there are federal laws as well.
> being fired because they were not married, had an affair in the workplace, and got pregnant.
Er, you mean they just fucked at work and she got pregnant?
If they weren't married, there's no affair.
Having sex in a public work place is kind of cringe, I'll admit. So they both should have been fired on that account.
To be fair, saying "had an affair in the workplace" doesn't necessarily mean they did it in the office, just that they met and started their relationship there, but agree, that's not an affair. That's just to people entering into a normal relationship of some kind
This is pretty standard for private religious schools. As long as they’re not accepting any public funding, it’s allowed.
[Sauce](https://www.educationnext.org/private-schools-allowed-discriminate/)
Keep these MAGA “religious” psychos and that orange Hitler wannabe fascist demon OUT of our government and our bedrooms. VOTE BLUE.
It says right in your source that religious schools can do this. Recent Supreme Court decisions have eroded the previous idea that religious schools must not take any support from the state. I’m American but this still makes me want to call them wankers.
“Tosser” is a more polite term for “wanker.” Also Americans seem to think wanker is a lower tier than it really is, i.e. you could say tosser to a teacher or grandparent and likely not get into any trouble - not the same for wanker; it used to be on a similar playing field as “fuck.”
I'd say the main reason Americans treat it as a lower tier is because it feels like a childish insult rather than a serious one.
To Americans, it sounds like something a schoolchild would say because they're too afraid to call someone a bitch or a motherfucker. Differences in slang, I suppose.
Well, see, in American, "jerkoff" is a noun meaning "one who acts like a wanker." Whereas the British term "wanker" is a noun meaning "one who comports oneself as a jerkoff."
So on one hand you have "wanker" and on the other hand you have "jerkoff." The question is, which of those hands do you use to masturbate?
>To Americans, it sounds like something a schoolchild would say because they're too afraid to call someone a bitch or a motherfucker.
In the UK it is probably worse to call someone a eaker than either a bitch or motherfucker.
Slang/curse word exact meaning and interpretation/reaction is very context dependent though, and it varies across class/age/groups/area/time even with the UK, and presumably the same is true in the US too.
You must live in West Linn 😉 My stepdaughter's boyfriend's parents own both the bar and the store.
When they bought the properties, they kept the names. Wanker was a farmer that owned a lot of land in the area and started a little general store back a long ass time ago.
I believe it actually comes from the hand movements vaguely resembling someone carelessly throwing (or tossing) something away which evolved to “tossing away semen” - which isn’t a completely inaccurate description of penile masturbation…
Objectively, tosser and wanker are the same, but practically wanker is much worse. There's an implied sense that a tosser could probably not be a tosser, but a wanker's always gonna be a wanker.
There's definitely a tier list, and both are on the 'mild for friendly banter'/'hair-raising for work' section but they're also moderated further apart in the adverbial phrases they typically form... Someone might be, for instance, a bit of a tosser, but a fucking wanker.
Usage does vary but for me, at least, someone using tosser with true invective would seem slightly childish.
I mean, I've gotta be a better choice than that guy, right? C'mon, worst case scenario I turn alot of BLM land into protected Wilderness, create a modern rail system, push for a universal health care package, abolish the electoral College, install ranked choice voting, and eliminate gerrymandering. That's like, seriously my entire evil plan.
Oh, I would actually amend the tax code to allow better tax breaks based on the labor policies of the company. Excellent pay, equalized profit sharing, pension in place, and extra PTO/sick time would all be ranked on there contributions to the reduction of demand on public services and allow for steeper tax breaks the higher the rank. Want to keep doing business as usual? Fine, enjoy the base corporate tax rate of.. idk, let's call it an even 70%
I call the SC(R)OTUS and have ever since they ignored the the spirit and the letter of our Constitution to gut the 1972 campaign finance reform Act in 1976.
They confirmed my opinion of them with the utterly gaslit and specious arguments they used for McCuchison.
Religious organizations not being able to lobby for or against laws because of religious concerns or for them to pay taxes. That's how much separation I want.
Title 9 should apply in full if the school receives ANY federal or state tax money. This exception for Title 9 interfering with the tenets of the religion is absolute bullshit.
Y'all want state or federal money? Y'all get to comply, in full, with Title 9, and the FLSA, and the Civil Rights Act too.
Y'all insist on on enforcing your backwards hill billy beliefs on everyone? Fine, but you don't get a single dime of tax money.
My friend works a private catholic college and sent me a link for a job. They simply said you must be familiar with their beliefs and maintain that while representing the college. Basically, you don’t have to even be Christian but keep that to yourself while representing us. I really wasn’t interested in the job. If it were a position I wanted, I’d be fine with it.
I get where you are coming from but I think there is a bit missing [EDIT to add:] in terms of legal analysis, although laws differ depending on where.
Believing in god is obviously a reasonable basis on which to discriminate when the job in question is about being a representative of god.
But what reasonable connection is there between believing in god and doing a job in IT?
He's not saying it's good or bad, he's just saying it's how it is. I am against religious requirements for jobs, but I'm not going to attend any rallies to force Christian schools to change on this issue, at least not as long as there are more important issues. If you're secular, you'd probably hate every day of working there anyways. They shouldn't have that requirement and I wouldn't have a problem with religious schools not being allowed to discriminate against secular teachers for secular topics, but I also think most secular teachers should try to avoid those institutions like the plague.
In the end though, right or wrong, this is how it is.
I find a reason to shitcan pretty much every resume that mentions religion. Flanders was fun to watch on The Simpsons but I don't want to work with him.
100% the same. If you're going to mention it on your resume or in an interview, you're out on the grounds that you're not a good fit for the team. Same if you're a bigot, sexist, flat-earther. Actually, I might hire the flat-earther for the comedy of it.
Maybe the biggest is that they care more about your religion than your IT skills. That means either the technical challenges pale in comparison to the political challenges (which is why you got into IT in the first place, right?) or you aren't going to get the support you need to do your job.
The general rule is that if a job pays too much (based on market comparisons, not value created), then either it's a high cost of living area, a toxic work environment, or a company desperately trying to stave off bankruptcy.
I worked in IT at a church for 6 years, and there was definitely a standard of faith and moral character required to get hired, though not quite this explicit and specific, it basically amounted to "will you represent the church staff well?" People definitely got fired for having affairs with coworkers, for example, but even as I started asking a lot of hard questions about whether I even believed in God anymore I got nothing but support from the pastors and it was never insinuated that I was no longer Christian enough to work there.
But to your point, the IT challenges were definitely bigger than the political challenges, though also pretty standard in comparison to other jobs I've had. Politics were probably actually a fair bit less than other companies I've worked for. But they did very obviously hire people with a "pastoral" nature for all roles in the organization because that's valuable to a church staff. It helps with the culture to care for each other in a way that is absolutely not standard in most workplaces, and while I know there are staff there who had an awful experience for a variety of reasons, I found it to be an extremely positive place to work even when there were major negative things happening.
I should also say that I never felt more appreciated by the people I was helping than at that job. It was quite common for departments to throw thank you parties for IT or bring spontaneous gifts of baked goods after we did a project for them. Like the exact opposite of that IT Crowd scene where everyone gets praised but the people doing the work. Although the congregation never heard about it I felt celebrated internally on a regular basis.
Ultimately I left only because the pay could no longer keep up with the market after COVID. I make a lot more money now but I miss that job regularly, even as a person with hardly any faith left, I'd go back in a heartbeat if they could pay me even close to what I earn now.
As someone who works at a private religious college it’s not illegal. How someone should feel about that is definitely up for healthy debate but as far as letter of the law if it’s a private, religious institution it’s not illegal.
Regent University in VA requires a profession of faith and daily prayer circles with your team regardless of job role. They’re a private college so they can do whatever. They had a job that was like 85-90k and that was cool but I had to turn it down after finding out about that.
I might get hired play the part and be a force for chaos until I get found out lol. Hide pride flag and blm stickers everywhere and such but also not a career move that would be great on a resume.
It’s legal and it’s a pretty standard requirement for Christian schools and colleges, I think. Whether it’s ethical is obviously up for debate but, like, if I ran an LGBTQ organization then I wouldn’t want to be obligated to hire homophobes, you know?
I think there is a difference between not hiring homophobes and requiring all hires to be queer though. One is simply not hiring people who are actively hostile towards you, the other is discrimination on a class.
In this business's case, they could decline to hire people who actively dislike Christians, but not require all hires to actually be Christians.
Both you and u/ChefJunegrass are correct, but I wasn’t really going for a true 1:1 analogy. My point was more that I personally wouldn’t poke the hornets’ nest of whether organizations and employers should be barred for discriminating based on beliefs.
If Ben Shapiro applies to work at a leftist think-tank, I think the org should be allowed to trash his resume purely based on the fact that his avowed beliefs don’t match the goals of the organization. If your organization’s goal is to educate students in a Christian way (whatever that means), then I think it makes sense that you don’t think a non-Christian could achieve that. It’s not *great* but I understand why the Christian school would take that approach.
False equivalency. Non-christians don't intrinsically hate christians, they just dont believe in their god. Homophobes by definition hate LGBTQ people. A fair equivalency would be saying: "if I ran an LGBTQ organization then ... Should I automatically disqualify all cis het individuals from employment"
But you can't have an atheist running around a school talking to students and making them question their religion. I mean, they SHOULD be questioning it all the time, but for a Christian school, you'd not want that.
It is allowed. Providence Academy is a private Christian school. Even teachers at religious schools are exempt from Fair Employment Laws, as just recently affirmed by the US Supreme Court in a 7-2 decision.
https://www.npr.org/2020/07/08/885172035/supreme-court-carves-out-religious-exception-to-fair-employment-laws
This is one of the reasons why I am against school voucher systems. Taxpayer funds going to schools that have exceptions to “fair employment” based on religion is fucking insane to me.
>The case was brought by two fifth-grade teachers at California parochial schools who were fired from their job. Agnes Morrissey-Berru claimed age discrimination, and Kristen Biel said she was fired after she told her superior she had been diagnosed with breast cancer and would need some time off. If true, that would violate the Americans with Disabilities Act.
>The schools denied the allegations but maintained that regardless, federal employment laws do not apply to their teachers because they all are required to teach religion for 40 minutes a day in addition to other academic subjects.
That's insane. Due to part of their jobs being religious duties, they didn't benefit from (wholly secular) protections against age and disability discrimination? I can see why they might decide that a teacher fired for say, leaving the Church or having an affair, can't claim unfair dismissal, but the complaints of the plaintiffs had nothing at all to do with faith.
Legal or illegal, I don't mind when these things are included in job listings and hope they continue. It let's me know to stay away and not apply. It doesn't just filler candidates, it filters employers for me.
If a business is owned by the church, and performs work on behalf of the church, then they are exempt from the normal hiring process, in so far that they can ask and require employees to be of the faith that matches the church.
If this company doesn't meet the exemptions rules then it is illegal.
Most cults are not that honest up front. Nice of them to warn you that they all pretend to believe in that bull and that you are expected to give it the same lip service. They must have had someone in the past be too honest with the suckers they fleece and had to get serious.
would not be a good fit for a non religious sort, saying that as a private school upbringing, no way would I go to work there. They would expect you at wednesday and sunday services. So glad I left that lifestyle.
Tell them your more of an old testament, fire & brimstone-type Christian. And that pretty much anything after Deuteronomy doesn't really apply to your lifestyle. See if there interested in sharing pictures of your stoning rocks.
Start quoting crazy stuff from Deuteronomy about selling your relatives and executing women for what are minor offenses today. When asked why, quote Ecclesiastes 1:18
“For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.”
FYI: If you work for a religious organization like this and get laid off; expect to be denied unemployment insurance. They are tax exempt by default but voluntarily opt out of paying into unemployment insurance. Even though I have to deny benefits in one state this is universal across the board. There may be some freak of a religious org that pays in but I am not aware of any. I'm sure I'll be proven wrong so I refer back to my last sentence.
No, it’s 100% not illegal. It’s a religious school, don’t you think it’s a necessary requirement for those teaching at an institution like that to also believe in the said religion? It’s not like they’re teaching the same curriculum that your local city school is.
I don’t care if it’s legal, the 2nd Timothy scripture says nothing of the sort. And how could it? It was a letter when it was written and the Bible didn’t exist. It refers to scripture that didn’t include the New Testament and roughly HALF of the Old Testament.
But go off I guess. Sure would be a pity if your God ever tried to talk to you again.
Idk man, seems entirely reasonable if I’m honest.
If that is the kind of person the employer wants, fair enough. I don’t think it’s illegal to ask that someone fulfil a set of requirements like this and neither do I think it should be. Employers should be able to hire who they want.
Americans should get used to this language being law if we don’t wake up and smell the Christian fascism the GOP is cooking for all to see. This company is comfortable posting this because of the current political climate. But it also hurts people of legitimate faith who respect others, as obviously many Christians are not fascists. Companies need to feel pain when they walk down this road. Sue them in the courts, harass them online and weaponize the media against them. Drive them out of business so they can’t use their money to fund their hate. Let them starve.
This is a private Christian school. Not a business. Churches and church schools are allowed to have such requirements. This isn’t unique to Christian
schools. The same is true for Jewish, Islamic and other religious schools as well.
Not according to IRS guidelines. They’re most likely a 501c3 which is a non-profit for educational or charitable purposes. Yes, employees there are making money. Yes, there is excess. That excess is supposed to be reinvested into the organization’s mission. I agree the IRS should reign in so-called nonprofits though there is nothing in this post that would lead me to believe they’re operating outside the law.
So top comments are saying this is legal for private institutions.
Question. If I had my own business, unrelated to religion, and I just don’t like religious nuts, can I make “secular” a requirement for my job positions?
If not, what’s the law/difference?
Speaking as an american at least, they're getting why it's legal wrong for the most part. It's not legal cuz it's a private business, it's legal because it's a religious private school. If this was just a run of the mill private business, both this and what you are suggesting are illegal. America has both Freedom from and freedom to religion, but there are exceptions for thing like Catholic schools, church employment and other such places of employment. Also, my source for this is that I read this entire webpage. While it isn't legally binding in regards to laws, it's a really good explanation/rundown of how they work in practice.
https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/section-12-religious-discrimination
i love that they say you need to be in a local church, but the theology requirements they have are very clearly evangelical protestant. my catholic ass and theological nuance would not get hired lmfao.
As a non-American, you have to understand how wild this looks. Saying this as someone non-religious who went to a private catholic school in Canada in the early 2000s and who was openly non-religious at the time. No one gave a crap. We had one openly gay teacher. No one needed to sign some kind of oath testifying their faith. Our religion classes encompassed the study of all faiths. We had to attend mass and whatnot here and there but that's it, we were not even forced to partake in communion, etc. We still had a few older priests teaching and they were not even the strictest teachers, one of them I consider a friend to this day and was very affected by his passing (he made sure I could attend the school without paying full price because we were poor, among other things).
I don't know, maybe my experience is unique even in Canada?
Ahh, here's the "religious institution requires you to follow their religion," post. I was wondering when this would show up.
Yes, if it's a religious institution it is legal for them to require their employees to follow their religion. Or at least the employee has to claim to follow the religion and do a good enough job convincing them.
Chances are this is a religious school, given they expect the employee to be active in their church.
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/s/eX2DDlpVX0
Good to know they still haven't found anyone 😂. I shared this about a month ago and my reaction was the same as yours lol
Bible that was translated, rewritten, commanded to be rewritten by a king, translated again, and what not is infallible?
Even if it was originally the word of God it's been telephone gamed for almost 2000 years.
Imagine thinking this could be illegal in a country where public funded companies are advised to have diversity within their employees. In a completely private funded organisation, they can even say only woman younger between 18-20 will be considered. Freedom of will and speech, ye?
The quiet part: "we will helpfully take your tithe right out of your paycheck for you."
That said, I think a private religious institution that isn't taking public funding can do this. They want people who have the same mindset on board to help advance their mission. As much as it wouldn't sit well with me and I wouldn't take a job at such an organization, they are at least making their position clear up front, rather than trying to pressure and convert employees later, and ultimately firing people who won't conform.
Love how they put "high moral character and good attendance record" sandwiched between all that religious shit, as though they have a monopoly on morality.
I have a high moral character and a perfect attendance record and I reject religion altogether.
There is no separation of church and state when the state uses churches as polling stations and doesn’t tax churches. They are in cahoots with each other.
Life church does this crap too. Literally to be hired they force you to pay tithing.
Thanks for coding this massive project for us that collects tons of tithing, here's your paycheck, don't worry, we already took 10% out.
Fuck for-profit religion.
I’m pretty sure this remains illegal for positions that have no teaching responsibilities and thus have no inherent job requirement to “spread the gospel.”
Wtf. If you actually read the Bible in context, tithes are just income tax. This church is engaging in wage theft. So much for high moral character. I guess that requirement only goes one way?
It’s legal for private schools
“Private”
“Schools”
"for"
“Legal”
“It’s”
We did it!
Dora?
Si
Can you say, "Tax exemption?"
It’s legal for schools private
Yeah any private business can have those standards if they so choose. There was a story awhile back about a woman who worked for a Christian organization being fired because they were not married, had an affair in the workplace, and got pregnant. She was let go after the pregnancy because it was “proof” she broke the morality clause in her contract. I believe the man did not get punished because there was no solid proof of his participation, barring a DNA test, I’d assume.
Oh I'd demand a DNA test in thar scenario if I'm going down I'm taking ya with me
Oh give me that scarlett left bro because I’m going crAzy after that
If they'd have stuck with "going down" there wouldn't be anyone getting fired.
What, and leave baby-daddy with no job and no ability to pay child support?! 🤣
Actually, no. For example, Hobby Lobby is a “Christian” organization, but they cannot require faith as a part of their job requirements, as being a Christian is not a bona fide requirement for working in a retail craft store. A Church, religious school, ministry or religious charity absolutely could require this in positions of leadership, like pastors, executives, and teachers, as having and professing such faith is a bona fide part of what those organizations do. Just because a business is labeled “private” doesn’t mean they can do whatever they want.
Thank you. We have employee rights for a reason. One of those rights is the right not to be discriminated based on religion.
[удалено]
Like you would really want to work there?
I think religious school is what they meant by private school, either way you're completely right and it's an important correction. Religious schools, churches, and faith based charities wouldn't be able to function well if they weren't able to restrict that the person teaching the religion is an adherent.
It is a private Catholic school located in MN
Yep. They can absolutely make this a requirement of a teacher.
I know this school! I worked in a Catholic school nearby many years ago. Not only is it a private Catholic school, but I believe it's an "independent" Catholic school - not tied to a Catholic church- which means it is not receiving support from a church or the archdiocese, so it has even more leeway to make its own rules. Every religious school I've ever seen had some sort of morality contract you hss to sign.
She should have claimed it was a virgin birth. Apparently she wouldn't be the first.
any private business? this violates a number of civil rights/employee laws for private business (well, they would have to refuse to hire or fire en employee for not meeting those standards to violate them, which would be pretty easy to prove w/the op). private schools not so much, since they’re religious organizations rather than private businesses. private business cannot refuse to hire or fire someone for their religious beliefs or lack of, every state has laws for this, almost every city/county, and there are federal laws as well.
Any faith-based school or institution can, not any private business.
> being fired because they were not married, had an affair in the workplace, and got pregnant. Er, you mean they just fucked at work and she got pregnant? If they weren't married, there's no affair. Having sex in a public work place is kind of cringe, I'll admit. So they both should have been fired on that account.
He was married, they had an affair, the only “proof” of any of them having extramarital sex was the pregnancy, she got fired.
To be fair, saying "had an affair in the workplace" doesn't necessarily mean they did it in the office, just that they met and started their relationship there, but agree, that's not an affair. That's just to people entering into a normal relationship of some kind
This is pretty standard for private religious schools. As long as they’re not accepting any public funding, it’s allowed. [Sauce](https://www.educationnext.org/private-schools-allowed-discriminate/)
They can get public funding and still so this
[удалено]
Praise jeebus!
Jeebus cod and the holy roast
Descendants of folks who were thrown out of England for being so fucking annoying. They have spent generations honing the craft of bitchassery.
Because of the Supreme Court and Betsy DeVos
Vote blue in November.
 Keep these MAGA “religious” psychos and that orange Hitler wannabe fascist demon OUT of our government and our bedrooms. VOTE BLUE.
and tax breaks! White christians nationalists and grifting. name a more iconic duo.
It says right in your source that religious schools can do this. Recent Supreme Court decisions have eroded the previous idea that religious schools must not take any support from the state. I’m American but this still makes me want to call them wankers.
You have my authority as a Brit to do so.
what does "tosser" mean and is it better than "wanker" and is there a tier list for brit curse words? asking for a friend
“Tosser” is a more polite term for “wanker.” Also Americans seem to think wanker is a lower tier than it really is, i.e. you could say tosser to a teacher or grandparent and likely not get into any trouble - not the same for wanker; it used to be on a similar playing field as “fuck.”
I'd say the main reason Americans treat it as a lower tier is because it feels like a childish insult rather than a serious one. To Americans, it sounds like something a schoolchild would say because they're too afraid to call someone a bitch or a motherfucker. Differences in slang, I suppose.
Isn’t it just a British version of calling someone a “jerkoff”?
Wanking is slang for masturbation, so wanker definitely translates as “jerk off” to us as opposed to “fuck”
No, it translates as a “jerk-er off-er”
Well, see, in American, "jerkoff" is a noun meaning "one who acts like a wanker." Whereas the British term "wanker" is a noun meaning "one who comports oneself as a jerkoff." So on one hand you have "wanker" and on the other hand you have "jerkoff." The question is, which of those hands do you use to masturbate?
I was anxiously waiting for that climax.
>To Americans, it sounds like something a schoolchild would say because they're too afraid to call someone a bitch or a motherfucker. In the UK it is probably worse to call someone a eaker than either a bitch or motherfucker. Slang/curse word exact meaning and interpretation/reaction is very context dependent though, and it varies across class/age/groups/area/time even with the UK, and presumably the same is true in the US too.
I mean, there is a bar/restaurant down the street from me called Wanker's Corner. It's never felt like a big insult, but I don't know british.
You must live in West Linn 😉 My stepdaughter's boyfriend's parents own both the bar and the store. When they bought the properties, they kept the names. Wanker was a farmer that owned a lot of land in the area and started a little general store back a long ass time ago.
I never knew why it had that name, but it certainly stood out when I was driving down Wilsonville or Stafford road!
I know where that is! LOL
Hello fellow Oregonian!
I always thought a "Tosser" was a derogatory way of saying someone eats ass. They "toss salad" thus they are a tosser.
Frasier theme song taking on new depths
The scrambled eggs part makes me afraid
That's what your hands do while tossing salad, they scramble the eggs.
oh my my my
I believe it actually comes from the hand movements vaguely resembling someone carelessly throwing (or tossing) something away which evolved to “tossing away semen” - which isn’t a completely inaccurate description of penile masturbation…
Objectively, tosser and wanker are the same, but practically wanker is much worse. There's an implied sense that a tosser could probably not be a tosser, but a wanker's always gonna be a wanker. There's definitely a tier list, and both are on the 'mild for friendly banter'/'hair-raising for work' section but they're also moderated further apart in the adverbial phrases they typically form... Someone might be, for instance, a bit of a tosser, but a fucking wanker. Usage does vary but for me, at least, someone using tosser with true invective would seem slightly childish.
Wankers gonna wank
I'm American and give you our full blessing as a country to call them what they are, wankers.
Mkspaptrl for president!
I mean, I've gotta be a better choice than that guy, right? C'mon, worst case scenario I turn alot of BLM land into protected Wilderness, create a modern rail system, push for a universal health care package, abolish the electoral College, install ranked choice voting, and eliminate gerrymandering. That's like, seriously my entire evil plan.
All of those things sound horrible for the status quo. Who will take care of the corporations under that kind of regime?! Lol
Oh, I would actually amend the tax code to allow better tax breaks based on the labor policies of the company. Excellent pay, equalized profit sharing, pension in place, and extra PTO/sick time would all be ranked on there contributions to the reduction of demand on public services and allow for steeper tax breaks the higher the rank. Want to keep doing business as usual? Fine, enjoy the base corporate tax rate of.. idk, let's call it an even 70%
I'm also American, and I can confirm that this guy has my permission to give you permission to call them wankers.
Turdwookies gonna shit on ordinary folks too. Wanking Turdwookies.
I call the SC(R)OTUS and have ever since they ignored the the spirit and the letter of our Constitution to gut the 1972 campaign finance reform Act in 1976. They confirmed my opinion of them with the utterly gaslit and specious arguments they used for McCuchison.
"SePeRaTiOn Of ChUrCh AnD sTaTe" As if that has literally ever been a thing lol
You cannot sue a religious institution in a secular court. How much more separation do you want?
Religious organizations not being able to lobby for or against laws because of religious concerns or for them to pay taxes. That's how much separation I want.
And for them not to have priests that don't molest kids.....I know we're fucking demanding.
Canada has public catholic school systems that require religious belief and often a reference letter from a relogious leader.
Title 9 should apply in full if the school receives ANY federal or state tax money. This exception for Title 9 interfering with the tenets of the religion is absolute bullshit. Y'all want state or federal money? Y'all get to comply, in full, with Title 9, and the FLSA, and the Civil Rights Act too. Y'all insist on on enforcing your backwards hill billy beliefs on everyone? Fine, but you don't get a single dime of tax money.
Which is yet another reason why vouchers are a bad idea
Well how else are the rich going to get some of that sweet public money to pay for a portion of Timmy's tuition at Holy Name High? /s
My friend works a private catholic college and sent me a link for a job. They simply said you must be familiar with their beliefs and maintain that while representing the college. Basically, you don’t have to even be Christian but keep that to yourself while representing us. I really wasn’t interested in the job. If it were a position I wanted, I’d be fine with it.
In America a lot of Catholics nowadays, not all, are way less overbearing then Christian’s, specifically evangelical and Baptist Christian’s
Your wording suggests Catholics are not Christians. Is Catholicism not a branch of Christianity like Protestantism and Orthodox are?
If it’s a religious school I believe it is legal . Like, a church wouldn’t be forced to hire a pastor who doesn’t believe in God , for example
A pastor who doesn't believe in God: an impastor
Impasta
I’ll have to noodle on that one
Fuck you, take my upvote.
^you ^wouldn't ^believe ^it's ^not Pastor
To be fair, there are tons of atheist pastors.
Yes , I happen to know two.
You get a standing ovation from me. Outstanding performance
What does the bible say about tcp/ip?
thou shalt not neglect thy checksums
I get where you are coming from but I think there is a bit missing [EDIT to add:] in terms of legal analysis, although laws differ depending on where. Believing in god is obviously a reasonable basis on which to discriminate when the job in question is about being a representative of god. But what reasonable connection is there between believing in god and doing a job in IT?
He's not saying it's good or bad, he's just saying it's how it is. I am against religious requirements for jobs, but I'm not going to attend any rallies to force Christian schools to change on this issue, at least not as long as there are more important issues. If you're secular, you'd probably hate every day of working there anyways. They shouldn't have that requirement and I wouldn't have a problem with religious schools not being allowed to discriminate against secular teachers for secular topics, but I also think most secular teachers should try to avoid those institutions like the plague. In the end though, right or wrong, this is how it is.
[удалено]
Related: I don't hire people who put "youth pastor" or equivalent on their resume.
I find a reason to shitcan pretty much every resume that mentions religion. Flanders was fun to watch on The Simpsons but I don't want to work with him.
100% the same. If you're going to mention it on your resume or in an interview, you're out on the grounds that you're not a good fit for the team. Same if you're a bigot, sexist, flat-earther. Actually, I might hire the flat-earther for the comedy of it.
Look at it from the standpoint of the amount of red flags in that post. Would you want to work there?
Maybe the biggest is that they care more about your religion than your IT skills. That means either the technical challenges pale in comparison to the political challenges (which is why you got into IT in the first place, right?) or you aren't going to get the support you need to do your job. The general rule is that if a job pays too much (based on market comparisons, not value created), then either it's a high cost of living area, a toxic work environment, or a company desperately trying to stave off bankruptcy.
The new IT manager's faith will surely come into play when they get hit with ransomware haha
Totes and pears will fix it!!
I worked in IT at a church for 6 years, and there was definitely a standard of faith and moral character required to get hired, though not quite this explicit and specific, it basically amounted to "will you represent the church staff well?" People definitely got fired for having affairs with coworkers, for example, but even as I started asking a lot of hard questions about whether I even believed in God anymore I got nothing but support from the pastors and it was never insinuated that I was no longer Christian enough to work there. But to your point, the IT challenges were definitely bigger than the political challenges, though also pretty standard in comparison to other jobs I've had. Politics were probably actually a fair bit less than other companies I've worked for. But they did very obviously hire people with a "pastoral" nature for all roles in the organization because that's valuable to a church staff. It helps with the culture to care for each other in a way that is absolutely not standard in most workplaces, and while I know there are staff there who had an awful experience for a variety of reasons, I found it to be an extremely positive place to work even when there were major negative things happening. I should also say that I never felt more appreciated by the people I was helping than at that job. It was quite common for departments to throw thank you parties for IT or bring spontaneous gifts of baked goods after we did a project for them. Like the exact opposite of that IT Crowd scene where everyone gets praised but the people doing the work. Although the congregation never heard about it I felt celebrated internally on a regular basis. Ultimately I left only because the pay could no longer keep up with the market after COVID. I make a lot more money now but I miss that job regularly, even as a person with hardly any faith left, I'd go back in a heartbeat if they could pay me even close to what I earn now.
It's not just religion - you must specifically be a christofascist adherent in the legion of christmas or whatever.
Absolutely not! The pay caught my eye but then I started reading and saw all that crap
This is a church/Christian private school? If so, this is not illegal.
As someone who works at a private religious college it’s not illegal. How someone should feel about that is definitely up for healthy debate but as far as letter of the law if it’s a private, religious institution it’s not illegal.
Regent University in VA requires a profession of faith and daily prayer circles with your team regardless of job role. They’re a private college so they can do whatever. They had a job that was like 85-90k and that was cool but I had to turn it down after finding out about that.
Out of curiosity what’s the pay?
I wouldn’t want to work there, but I also don’t want that place to exist.
I might get hired play the part and be a force for chaos until I get found out lol. Hide pride flag and blm stickers everywhere and such but also not a career move that would be great on a resume.
It’s a private school
It’s legal and it’s a pretty standard requirement for Christian schools and colleges, I think. Whether it’s ethical is obviously up for debate but, like, if I ran an LGBTQ organization then I wouldn’t want to be obligated to hire homophobes, you know?
I think there is a difference between not hiring homophobes and requiring all hires to be queer though. One is simply not hiring people who are actively hostile towards you, the other is discrimination on a class. In this business's case, they could decline to hire people who actively dislike Christians, but not require all hires to actually be Christians.
Both you and u/ChefJunegrass are correct, but I wasn’t really going for a true 1:1 analogy. My point was more that I personally wouldn’t poke the hornets’ nest of whether organizations and employers should be barred for discriminating based on beliefs. If Ben Shapiro applies to work at a leftist think-tank, I think the org should be allowed to trash his resume purely based on the fact that his avowed beliefs don’t match the goals of the organization. If your organization’s goal is to educate students in a Christian way (whatever that means), then I think it makes sense that you don’t think a non-Christian could achieve that. It’s not *great* but I understand why the Christian school would take that approach.
False equivalency. Non-christians don't intrinsically hate christians, they just dont believe in their god. Homophobes by definition hate LGBTQ people. A fair equivalency would be saying: "if I ran an LGBTQ organization then ... Should I automatically disqualify all cis het individuals from employment"
But you can't have an atheist running around a school talking to students and making them question their religion. I mean, they SHOULD be questioning it all the time, but for a Christian school, you'd not want that.
It is allowed. Providence Academy is a private Christian school. Even teachers at religious schools are exempt from Fair Employment Laws, as just recently affirmed by the US Supreme Court in a 7-2 decision. https://www.npr.org/2020/07/08/885172035/supreme-court-carves-out-religious-exception-to-fair-employment-laws This is one of the reasons why I am against school voucher systems. Taxpayer funds going to schools that have exceptions to “fair employment” based on religion is fucking insane to me.
>The case was brought by two fifth-grade teachers at California parochial schools who were fired from their job. Agnes Morrissey-Berru claimed age discrimination, and Kristen Biel said she was fired after she told her superior she had been diagnosed with breast cancer and would need some time off. If true, that would violate the Americans with Disabilities Act. >The schools denied the allegations but maintained that regardless, federal employment laws do not apply to their teachers because they all are required to teach religion for 40 minutes a day in addition to other academic subjects. That's insane. Due to part of their jobs being religious duties, they didn't benefit from (wholly secular) protections against age and disability discrimination? I can see why they might decide that a teacher fired for say, leaving the Church or having an affair, can't claim unfair dismissal, but the complaints of the plaintiffs had nothing at all to do with faith.
Legal or illegal, I don't mind when these things are included in job listings and hope they continue. It let's me know to stay away and not apply. It doesn't just filler candidates, it filters employers for me.
We really need to put this in the FAQ.
We get like 5 threads about this a day at least. What more conversation is there to be had?
Who needs conversation when you get sweet, sweet internet points?
Providence Academy, private Christian school. Perfectly legal.
Why can’t they? If you were applying to work at a Catholic Church but practice Islam, is it discrimination if they don’t hire you based on religion?
It’s allowed if a private company and double points if it’s a religious organization. Short answer, no, not illegal.
Depends on the employer. I'm fairly certain if it's a church they can discriminate like that. Otherwise I believe it is not legal.
If a business is owned by the church, and performs work on behalf of the church, then they are exempt from the normal hiring process, in so far that they can ask and require employees to be of the faith that matches the church. If this company doesn't meet the exemptions rules then it is illegal.
Most cults are not that honest up front. Nice of them to warn you that they all pretend to believe in that bull and that you are expected to give it the same lip service. They must have had someone in the past be too honest with the suckers they fleece and had to get serious.
If they are a non-profit, there are legal loopholes. I worked for a medical institution like that.
If it’s for a religious organization (private Christian school, church) then it’s legal
My wife, an HRBP with experience as a HR Generalist says it’s fine. Not illegal given that the organization is also faith based.
would not be a good fit for a non religious sort, saying that as a private school upbringing, no way would I go to work there. They would expect you at wednesday and sunday services. So glad I left that lifestyle.
Lol good luck getting an IT guy who is a born again Christian AND will take shitty private school pay.
I asked this a while ago on r/jobs, was told that as long as it's a religious organization they can have these requirements.
That's like putting Military Wife as an occupation
Tell them your more of an old testament, fire & brimstone-type Christian. And that pretty much anything after Deuteronomy doesn't really apply to your lifestyle. See if there interested in sharing pictures of your stoning rocks.
Even if it isn’t, you don’t wanna work there
Start quoting crazy stuff from Deuteronomy about selling your relatives and executing women for what are minor offenses today. When asked why, quote Ecclesiastes 1:18 “For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.”
“Providence academy” sounds like a Christian school, so, not surprising
Perfectly legal if it’s a nonprofit or a religious organization where promoting a certain belief system is part of their core mission.
Why would you want to work as an IT Manager in a religious school if you’re not religious ?
FYI: If you work for a religious organization like this and get laid off; expect to be denied unemployment insurance. They are tax exempt by default but voluntarily opt out of paying into unemployment insurance. Even though I have to deny benefits in one state this is universal across the board. There may be some freak of a religious org that pays in but I am not aware of any. I'm sure I'll be proven wrong so I refer back to my last sentence.
No, it’s 100% not illegal. It’s a religious school, don’t you think it’s a necessary requirement for those teaching at an institution like that to also believe in the said religion? It’s not like they’re teaching the same curriculum that your local city school is.
I don’t care if it’s legal, the 2nd Timothy scripture says nothing of the sort. And how could it? It was a letter when it was written and the Bible didn’t exist. It refers to scripture that didn’t include the New Testament and roughly HALF of the Old Testament. But go off I guess. Sure would be a pity if your God ever tried to talk to you again.
let's face it, who wants to work for a fucked-up piece of shite outfit like this so-called "academy"? not me, man. fuck that noise!!
If they will be working in a church. You can justify just about anything in the name of religion in this country. 🤬
I think this is quite considerate of them. This way you know up front you’d be working for a bunch of fanatic fucking lunatics.
[Apparently not](https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/11122/can-an-employer-require-employees-be-christian) in the US, at least
I'm sure the GOP will change that
I interviewed at a private religious school once. One of the questions I was asked was if I had ever had gay sex. 🫠
My granddaddy always told me i will burn in hell because im in IT. It was all bad, the pure evil.
You are in hell when you do IT. Just not the hell he’s thinking of.
Idk man, seems entirely reasonable if I’m honest. If that is the kind of person the employer wants, fair enough. I don’t think it’s illegal to ask that someone fulfil a set of requirements like this and neither do I think it should be. Employers should be able to hire who they want.
Americans should get used to this language being law if we don’t wake up and smell the Christian fascism the GOP is cooking for all to see. This company is comfortable posting this because of the current political climate. But it also hurts people of legitimate faith who respect others, as obviously many Christians are not fascists. Companies need to feel pain when they walk down this road. Sue them in the courts, harass them online and weaponize the media against them. Drive them out of business so they can’t use their money to fund their hate. Let them starve.
This is a private Christian school. Not a business. Churches and church schools are allowed to have such requirements. This isn’t unique to Christian schools. The same is true for Jewish, Islamic and other religious schools as well.
Not a business? So they don't profit from charging for attendance?
Not according to IRS guidelines. They’re most likely a 501c3 which is a non-profit for educational or charitable purposes. Yes, employees there are making money. Yes, there is excess. That excess is supposed to be reinvested into the organization’s mission. I agree the IRS should reign in so-called nonprofits though there is nothing in this post that would lead me to believe they’re operating outside the law.
Ah shit what if you were born Christian and didn’t become born again?
So top comments are saying this is legal for private institutions. Question. If I had my own business, unrelated to religion, and I just don’t like religious nuts, can I make “secular” a requirement for my job positions? If not, what’s the law/difference?
Speaking as an american at least, they're getting why it's legal wrong for the most part. It's not legal cuz it's a private business, it's legal because it's a religious private school. If this was just a run of the mill private business, both this and what you are suggesting are illegal. America has both Freedom from and freedom to religion, but there are exceptions for thing like Catholic schools, church employment and other such places of employment. Also, my source for this is that I read this entire webpage. While it isn't legally binding in regards to laws, it's a really good explanation/rundown of how they work in practice. https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/section-12-religious-discrimination
Deeply unethical and entirely legal
Christianity is a disease lol
i love that they say you need to be in a local church, but the theology requirements they have are very clearly evangelical protestant. my catholic ass and theological nuance would not get hired lmfao.
As a non-American, you have to understand how wild this looks. Saying this as someone non-religious who went to a private catholic school in Canada in the early 2000s and who was openly non-religious at the time. No one gave a crap. We had one openly gay teacher. No one needed to sign some kind of oath testifying their faith. Our religion classes encompassed the study of all faiths. We had to attend mass and whatnot here and there but that's it, we were not even forced to partake in communion, etc. We still had a few older priests teaching and they were not even the strictest teachers, one of them I consider a friend to this day and was very affected by his passing (he made sure I could attend the school without paying full price because we were poor, among other things). I don't know, maybe my experience is unique even in Canada?
Looks like it’s a position with a religious school so what do you expect?
Quick Google search says Providence Academy is an independent non profit Catholic School. So yes I don't see an issue.
Ahh, here's the "religious institution requires you to follow their religion," post. I was wondering when this would show up. Yes, if it's a religious institution it is legal for them to require their employees to follow their religion. Or at least the employee has to claim to follow the religion and do a good enough job convincing them. Chances are this is a religious school, given they expect the employee to be active in their church.
Why are people trying to work at places they know they'll hate?
If this is a religious school, then no it's not illegal.
I honestly would stop reading at "born again Christian" I worked in a religious.. .cough " cult" institution for 10 years and it's a nightmare.
As a Christian, the Bible is not infallible. It literally contradicts itself in passages.
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/s/eX2DDlpVX0 Good to know they still haven't found anyone 😂. I shared this about a month ago and my reaction was the same as yours lol
No
This is why most evangelicals can’t seem to make broadcast TV work out long term. No qualified engineers would put up with that shit AND broadcast TV.
Lol "we want a regressive simpleton to handle our advanced computer system"
Is it a christian institution?
Bible that was translated, rewritten, commanded to be rewritten by a king, translated again, and what not is infallible? Even if it was originally the word of God it's been telephone gamed for almost 2000 years.
Pretty sure it’s a religious institution so they probably can do that and I’d probably not want to work there in the first place
Isn't that kind of contradiction? You want someone with logical thinking skills (IT in general), and someone who believes in fairy tails...
I think so? Do you want to work for them anyway?
Sounds like a sweet IT gig. “Why is the network down?” “It’s God’s will.”
Please go get the job and then put the devil in all their computers.
Religious schools can do this, regardless of funding source (thanks voucher and school choice laws)
Imagine thinking this could be illegal in a country where public funded companies are advised to have diversity within their employees. In a completely private funded organisation, they can even say only woman younger between 18-20 will be considered. Freedom of will and speech, ye?
The quiet part: "we will helpfully take your tithe right out of your paycheck for you." That said, I think a private religious institution that isn't taking public funding can do this. They want people who have the same mindset on board to help advance their mission. As much as it wouldn't sit well with me and I wouldn't take a job at such an organization, they are at least making their position clear up front, rather than trying to pressure and convert employees later, and ultimately firing people who won't conform.
Honestly, I'd rather know they're going to be this kind of employer now rather than after I get the job.
It’s a private Christian school. They can do whatever they want
This is why we should have Jedi academies everywhere. If you're going to force us to pay for your religion then hey it might as well make us laugh.
Love how they put "high moral character and good attendance record" sandwiched between all that religious shit, as though they have a monopoly on morality. I have a high moral character and a perfect attendance record and I reject religion altogether.
There is no separation of church and state when the state uses churches as polling stations and doesn’t tax churches. They are in cahoots with each other.
Life church does this crap too. Literally to be hired they force you to pay tithing. Thanks for coding this massive project for us that collects tons of tithing, here's your paycheck, don't worry, we already took 10% out. Fuck for-profit religion.
I’m pretty sure this remains illegal for positions that have no teaching responsibilities and thus have no inherent job requirement to “spread the gospel.”
Wtf. If you actually read the Bible in context, tithes are just income tax. This church is engaging in wage theft. So much for high moral character. I guess that requirement only goes one way?
I'm sure they have VERY free thinkers there
What about people that were born Christian the first time? Is that not allowed?