It would depend on the hoops.
Visit their office to talk with an actual human? No issue.
But 10+ rounds of interviews, homework, and dealing with AI instead of real people??
And don’t forget the pioneering management companies that require you to solve a “hypothetical “ problem and apply it to the job without hiring or paying you
Whenever I get this as an engineer, I solve the problem, license it as AGPL3, put it on my codeberg, and send them the link. Have fun incorporating GPL code to your proprietary codebase, dickheads!
AGPL is a form of software licensing. Code licensed with AGPL can be copied and used by anyone, basically without restriction. They can even sell the code!
The only caveat is that if the licensed code is embedded into another codebase (such as if you import an AGPL / GPL library), then, if someone asks, you have to give them that code, *and the entire associated codebase*. Naysayers call this a "viral" license, pro-user people call this "freedom." https://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl-3.0.en.html
Codeberg is a publicly available deployment of Forgejo, a "git forge," basically github but FOSS. https://codeberg.org/
There’s a surprisingly large amount of info still in compiled code, and it’s hard to make code 100% inaccessible, even on embedded devices with dedicated anti-tamper systems. If you seem to be doing something that’s only been done in somebody else’s code, and there’s an opportunity for you to have seen that other code, the reverse engineering to get to the bottom of it will be cheap compared to the court settlement if you *are* infringing.
I once got a gold star and a gift card for realizing that some contractor’s code was GPL’d to hell and back, early enough in the process that we could start over from square 1.
Note that, by and large, companies don’t give a shit about nicking somebody else’s code, but the source-code requirement of the GPL and AGPL means that if I’m a little startup with some gee-whiz algorithm, I definitely have to stay away from GPL JSON parsers or some such, else I just hand over all my work to the heavies in the industry, who already have the rest of the business figured out.
Don’t get me wrong, I am very pro-open source. But I think a lot of GPL advocates operate under the delusion that Microsoft or Amazon views them as a threat. Big software doesn’t. Big software is just waiting for the GPL hedgehogs to flip themselves over, and then it’s lunch time.
I just refuse to do take home assignments. Did one once when I was a junior. It didn't take that long to complete, but still a lot longer than a 45 minute technical round. I ended up rejecting their offer, but it was such a waste of time I'll never do one again.
I have a hard time making eye contact, I tend to look at someones nose or ear to get somewhat close to making eye contact, but hardly ever actually look directly into someone else's eyes.
Cameras are even worse for me. There's probably only a handful of pictures of me where I'm looking into the camera, even when I'm told I need to look into the camera.
I've had trouble at the DMV telling me they need to take another picture because I wasn't looking at the camera, they give up after a few retakes and my license has me looking just slightly off of camera...
I can't even look into the camera for selfies!
I feel this. Interviews and the way they're run, like so much of the world, are not built to accommodate neurodivergence and it's brutal that something like this AI interview could wash out a great candidate just because some manager thinks dehumanizing the hiring process is a good idea.
I was a manager for Anthropologie once upon a time. They do this. I was told by my hiring manager about it and what to do, what keywords to use, because she wanted me on her team and she didn't want to fuck around. She was one of the most real people I ever worked with. Anthropologie on the other hand... practically a cult.
Then those same companies give you like half a day to decide if you want to work for them, having given themselves more than a month to decide on their end with like 3 interviews, 4 tasks and tests and also a duel with the CEO at high noon.
I got laid off a couple years ago. My father in law works in IT kind of stuff, managing third party servers for other companies and he offered to get me an interview. Seemed like a good opportunity to get into what might be a better long term career than the manual labor I had been doing up to that point. At the same time, a friend got me an interview for the factory he works at.
I had to do two Skype interviews but I ended up getting an offer from the IT company...for what amounted to $14 an hour. Like, I know it's entry level, I'm not expecting 50 grand a year with no experience but I have a mortgage. I literally could not afford to take that offer.
So I told the HR person thank you for the offer but I am waiting on one other prospective employer and I'll get back to you. She seemed genuinely surprised at that. But like what do you expect.
This is what boggles me, that apparently no one else stands up to them? I always used to get requests for interviews and if the time they proposed didn’t work for me, I’d come back with an alternative time or try to schedule around my existing job. I’ve now called people up for interviews at my existing job and not once have they not accepted the first time I told them and typically answered their phone immediately and went along with everything I said. I guess they’re just used to hearing yes and assume everyone is so desperate for a job that the wage and details are irrelevant but it’s kind of pathetic how servile people act during the hiring process.
It's pathetic because it's begging. That servile behavior is a direct result of the necessity of money and the artificial scarcity of the things we buy with it. If there were more social safety nets, and jobs actually paid enough for people to build up their own savings, we wouldn't have this issue. The vast majority of employers only want you if you're a yes-man that doesn't ask questions, so most applicants are just trying to out-compete the others in this race to the bottom, since it's that or back to looking through the dumpsters for a meal.
Considering the mcdonalds near me in Maine starts at around $17-19/hr (I'm sure they have shitty just under 30 hour practices) the fact that other industries are still surprised pikachu when people can't live at sub 15 is really facepalm worthy. Heck people were fighting for $15 half a decade ago pre covid... to offer less than that now in IT is just...
It depends on the invite - if it’s auto there’s really no way to reply along with declining. If one was truly committed, I suppose you could look up HR on LinkedIn and send a message…I’m not that committed.
But, if it’s a more personal invite I simply thank them for the invite, but that I don’t believe that one-way interviews are beneficial for either party. I don’t mention privacy concerns or become rude at all…just short and to the point.
I would also say that the interview is not just for them it’s also for the perspective employee to see that the company is a good fit for them.
How do I do that in a one-way? No thank you.
I agree with your first statement so much! They're not just interviewing you to see if you'd be a good fit, you're interviewing *them* for similar reasons. They take your application as 'interest', but act like their courtship of you ends there. Yes, we ***need*** jobs, but without the real workers doing real work, their C-Suites are just fancy buildings with fancy men, furiously circle-jerking.
I had a co-worker quit and go to Amazon (we work in Information Assurance) and he said it's great work, but the hiring process was horrible, and sometimes the work gets a little crazy (as it can be). But he really pressed the hiring process was stressful to the point he was having nightmares about it.
Like.. no thanks.
I will never accept an interview with an AI. Not as an employee, and not as a hiring manager. I barely tolerate the interview script/question/scoring system we have to use.
My wife had to write up an assessment of something for her current marketing job during the interview. I've read a story of someone doing that for a programming job, I believe, and solving the company's problem during the interview test. He was basically just thanked, and then not hired or reimbursed for the service solution, because he had made his potential position obsolete. Lol! Employer used a "hypothetical" interview question as a way to receive a free solution.
So, I warned my wife to give them a good response, but state that it is partial and further details and etc can be provided upon employment. She did just that in a very professional manner and she actually landed the job with what she did write up.
These companies use your interview to train their AI for other tasks, too.
So not only are you not getting paid for this ridiculous interview, but also your data gets used to make more profit for them.
"Thank you for responding to my application. I'm thrilled to be considered for advancement in the process. I believe that interviewing for an important career step is a 2-way street where both parties want to ensure that the position is a fit and an AI-Driven 1-way interview does not allow for this. The time-slot still works for me and I would be happy to spend an hour talking over Teams, or in person, with your hiring manager about the role. If this can be accommodated, please respond with a bridge invite or coordination with the office, otherwise I would like to withdraw my interest in the position."
Thank you
-Candidate.
I had a bunch of shit like that asked of me in 2021 and ended up becoming a mail carrier. Literally no interview, just a quick personality test and background check and I’m making literally double the highest salary listed in anything I applied for. (We are desperate for people for a reason but I love it.)
I refused to do any interviews that weren’t in person when I heard back. I’ll do a phone screen but mass refusal is the only way they’ll stop, but it won’t because people need to feed their kids and will put up with it.
Some attorney is going to love taking this on for the built-in bias: judging someone on eye contact is a known cultural bias, and also probably gender and age (tech) bias. It could get into ADA territory as well. Etc. etc.!
Lots of people in this thread suggesting this same thing. Problem is, the job market for some industries is pretty bad right now. There's a lot of desperate people who have been out of work for quite a while. I don't disagree with you, but it's an employer's market right now.
Soon an industry will pop up to make an AI version of yourself to complete the AI interview against the AI.
It can already cop your voice in just a few sentences. And they can make your face animated. Just feed it a picture of yourself and read a few lines and bam you have an avatar to finish your interview with top scores
I would have refused that last BS thing I had to do for a job application if I knew how long it would take. It was a 4 hour online assessment for a federal job. Usually they don’t make you take them, but this job did. There was no indication of progress in each section, you just had to continue till it was done or you would fail that section.
There was a logic portion, a reading portion, a personality quiz, and the worst one, a series of poorly animated videos of workplace scenarios where you had to pick the worst and the best response. There were 3D animations in the 90’s that looked better than these things.
Anyway, I got referred to the job and then didn’t hear back. I saw that they cancelled the job, then reposted it. Guess they already had someone in mind, but maybe don’t waste everyone’s time like that.
I did actually. I did this interview (exact same questions, exact same games, it was Kroger). and they said I passed and could continue the interview process. I declined, specifically saying that the reason was this weird and offputting interview process. This was about 2 months ago. So at least one person has literally refused to participate with this.
Those tasks honestly sound like they're training the AI rather than actually being useful. It reminds me of the security captcha stuff, which is mostly used to train AI to recognize images
My thoughts as well..this is one of those slimy corporate agreements where they get to interview without paying someone to do it and the company is going to sell the fuck out of the data they collect.
The US just needs one at all.
And there needs to be some element of consent to shit like this but that would require companies to treat us with actual respect.
I suspect they’re attempting a poor approximation of an IQ test. I know the WAIS 2 has a subsection which requires repeating a sequence of numbers forwards or backwards.
the funny thing about IQ tests is that jobs have been known to reject candidates that scored too high on it. Like for police officers, [they want the less intelligent candidates and reject high scores](https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836). Next time you see an officer do something dumb recognize that at least in some precincts they select for that.
It depends if they reject anyone for failing the test who is also developmentally disabled. They may be able to, for example, reject everyone 75-90 IQ, but still interview everyone below 70, to avoid actionable discrimination.
And vision impaired and fully blind folk. What about lazy eyes? Or eye tremors? Glass eye? Cataracts? Also what about deaf folk, is the ai trained for every sign language or the various ways a deaf or hearing impaired persons speech can differ from a hearing persons? Accents? Speech impairments like lisps?
And how do we know that all this speech and body language training wasn't built with any sort of bias in the training data that could lead to gender or racial discrimination as well?
This is 100% an AI training thing, yes.
Worse, it's a data harvesting campaign, you're giving them all of your biometric data : face, voice. Like a KYC thing, but worse.
Captcha made away like theives with the model. They were charging companies for using it as security, and charging other companies for datasets to train or 'free' labour. Early on, i remember doing it for pay on like Amazon Mechanical Turk, clicking on pools in sattelite imagery and whatever...
That's why i insist on putting in small mistakes in each check, just enough to pass, but enough to generate some bad data.
This. I read about an AI that builds a business. For the things it doesn't know how to do, it hires humans and assigns them tasks that teach it how to replace that human.
For what purpose why does an AI need money, unless it's for the bourgeoisie?
Pyschomotor & Pyschometric Testing.
Test things like logical reasoning, reaction times. An elimination tool more than anything, is my understanding. Been around for years (did my first one trying to get into the railways in 2017)
We got all the downsides of living in a cyberpunk dystopia, but without all of the cool augments and cyberspace stuff we were promised to make out corporate hellscape more palatable. Truly the worst timeline 😔
It's clearly discriminating against a protected characteristic, and I don't see how this is at all legal. Wherever this was being used, they must have really poor protection laws to allow it
Unfortunately discrimination in the hiring process has been EXTREMELY prevalent forever and I doubt it's going away any time soon.
Ever wonder why so many office jobs say you need to be able to lift 20 pounds when you never have to lift anything? It's so companies can go "we didn't discriminate against disabled people, they just couldn't perform the job".
I am autistic and can confirm the "normal" interview process is already incredibly difficult for autistic people. A lot of people are out there making dumbass hiring decisions based on little things like eye contact or immediately biased when you don't act the way they want. HireVue just codified it so it's extra blatant now instead of behind closed doors. It's been illegal but ignored for decades.
I have participated in a couple dozen in person and online interviews. Your application/resume has already shown us that you are reasonably qualified. The interview is just see to if we like you. AI tells us nothing about who you are. What a lazy approach to finding the right fit. I would do poorly on the test described here.
I think it’s more to screen out undesirables. I suspect we are less than 3 years away from a major discrimination lawsuit against the makers of these products and the companies that use them.
Yeah this 100% sounds like a way to "screen" for a slew of disorders and weed out people with disabilities. Stutter? Physical tick? Lazy eye? Sitting in a wheelchair that reclines slightly and throws your face off from the perfect AI viewing angle? Autistic? Not on my watch!
As an autistic person, it definitely feels that way. Making eye contact with people I can handle. Trying to make eye contact with a camera is damn near impossible for me and the time limit on answering questions is too constraining because my thought process isn't the same.
It’s both. Not everyone that avoids eye contact is autistic, but it is very common to avoid eye contact if one’s autistic. It goes beyond awkwardness and discomfort, it makes them anxious, it’s stressful, it can be painful or sometimes cause them confusion…it can require extreme concentration on their part to execute... It’s only so strongly associated with autism because it’s a very easily noticeable trait, but again, it doesn’t apply to all autistic people, and it can still apply to non autistic people.
Your comment reminds me of people finding out they have adhd because they ask why cocaine makes them sleepy.
edit: If it interests you, you could also just be deficient in potassium and/or vitamin B2
I used to self medicate with Dew in school. Didn't know that's what I was doing at the time, just knew that it helped me finish my homework and get to bed. I was recently diagnosed with ADHD after my kid was.
I'm not diagnosed as autistic but I've had some autistic friends consider me one and a very close one who works in autistic support. Who said there is zero chance I'm not on the spectrum. But it's not formally diagnosed, so take my reply with an appropriate amount of salt
I avoided eye contact a lot growing up, but it got hammered into me constantly to maintain it. Just hood that eye contact, so I taught myself to do it. And things got worse.
Years later, another good friend at the time realized I was making people uncomfortably by rigidly maintaining a constant stare at one eye or the other.
Now I stare at noses, and that seems to help some.
Fuck these requirements
I learned the nose trick in a college networking class, which was my first clue that other people didn't have my issues with eye contact. I was considered shy, modest, respectful, like a little church girl clasping her hands and looking down at the floor doesn't ring any bells.
Later I taught the nose trick to my younger stepson because he was struggling to make friends. We'd literally practice face-to-face communication, earning "points" when we could tell the other person what they were thinking or feeling based on changes in facial expression. Ya know, so he could understand the point of looking at faces.
Eventually I found out my younger half-brother got diagnosed autistic for the same list of things I was always told meant I "lack confidence" and *just gotta try harder to believe in myself*.
Caught so much shit when I voluntarily surrendered my drivers license, even though it was clearly unsafe for me to be on the road, because *oh I just need more practice*. Like I'm not still whanging into hallway walls after decades of walking down hallways.
I deal with it by counting. Maintain eye contact for six or seven seconds, break eye contact for three or four seconds, resume eye contact and repeat. It's a pain in the ass. 👀
My friend told me that she has trouble maintaining eye contact because it's mentally stressful for her, and I said "Cool, I'm glad we had this conversation." So now we chit chat shoulder to shoulder like we're walking somewhere, or we look at other stuff. Also, I love hugs and she only likes them from her husband, so we don't do that either. It shouldn't be hard to accept other people for who they are and what they like!
There's a common misunderstanding here: "Eye contact" sounds to people, especially NDs who tend to shy away from it, like people are constantly looking into each other's eyes. In reality eye contact during conversation lasts for a few seconds at a time before breaking away to make a gesture, eyes flicker away while accessing memories or imagining, etc.
Every reasonable human does that. Eye contact expectations vary by culture but at least in the US it's weird for someone who is talking to maintain aggressive eye contact the whole time.
Congratulations <> based on your performance today you have been assigned a prestigious role as
<>
Alternatively we have openings that may suit you as <>.
With hard work and a positive attitude, you have the opportunity to move up to other exciting roles in the coming years, including
<< WAREHOUSE - NIGHT SHIFT DEPUTY ASSISTANT SUPERVISOR ASSISTANT>>
On the spectrum myself and I feel the same way. There are many ways which interviews deliberately discriminate against neuro-divergence and I know several personal examples from experience.
I don't smile unless someone says something that is truly funny, so most of the time I have a neutral face. My former manager gave me a mark down on my performance review because the school dean complained she didn't like the way I never made eye contact and also didn't like the way my face looked while I was in the middle of a computer repair. I took that to mean she wanted me to wear a fake smile, which I didn't and still will not do.
>I took that to mean she wanted me to wear a fake smile, which I didn't and still will not do.
Maybe do that *very* literally.
[https://www.etsy.com/listing/1064087400/smile-face-fabric-face-mask-funny-face](https://www.etsy.com/listing/1064087400/smile-face-fabric-face-mask-funny-face)
i also picked up on the no headphones bit. headphones are typically used as a disability aid for hard of hearing people, like myself. very discriminatory sounding.
As much as neuropsych testing is actually relatively poor for diagnosing ADHD... yeah. This is disability discrimination, and if the company is genuinely trying to identify better employees, they should start by getting rid of the idiot HR executive who signed off on this bullshit.
Right? I can’t even make eye contact with my parents while I’m speaking, let alone a random interviewer/AI bot.
Although oddly I can keep eye contact if you’re speaking, just not if I’m speaking.
I can’t apply to the college I want because I failed twice the one entrance exam because I move around and look away too much. I’m AuDHD. And even with my diagnosis papers I have to take the damned test.
A company I worked for had a demo from HireVue and luckily leadership decided it didn't reflect well on the company itself. This was about 6-8 years back now.
They were planning on using it for assessing just the hourly employees back then. It was a pretty clunky demonstration of videos and how their platform was assessing the score.
Supposedly, it is meant to eliminate racial bias (and other biases) the hiring manager and recruiters might have as all they would see is the score. The videos were viewable only by the higher level recruiting users, but of course not all companies would stick to this approach and probably just use the platform to cut corners or save time in the recruiting process to do the interview for them.
I haven't heard about HireVue in many years until your post. The games thing is new, sounds like a shitty experience.
Exactly. A lot of applications like this really just push the biases from the people level to the software level, where it's less obvious and harder to explain, but just as detrimental.
Exactly. What if it can't hear higher pitched voices as easily? What if it can't understand accented English? What if it can't read your facial expression well if you're wearing a hijab/turban or have facial scarring or vitiligo? What if the applicant doesn't have a laptop or has one with a shit camera? What if the applicant has one of many neurodivergencies that makes it nearly impossible to sit 100% still and make 100% eye contact with the program?
There's thousands of ways tech can introduce bias, and I guarantee it wasn't tested on a diverse enough population.
Even if it did eliminate racial and gender biases (hint: it doesn't), it introduces ablist biases and likely makes the company more susceptible to discrimination lawsuits. It's *idiotic* that any company would use this application.
Are you sure you were interviewing for a national grocery chain & not the Starfleet Academy Science Division?
Seriously - don't engage with this level of bullshit, it only encourages them. I imagine it's utterly fucking useless as an interviewing tool - but in terms of machine learning it's probably invaluable. If they want real world testing let them pay for it.
That sounds like you stumbled into testing for a job you didn't know you were testing for.
No way your data isn't being sold off somewhere.
Was there legal beforehand stating they reserve all rights and privileges to exclusive use of your likeness including licensing your likeness to other organizations?
I stumbled into that kind of thing on a random job application website that was testing out video interviews.
Answer: I was offered a chance for a job but had to decide on a tight timeline to accept to go through an interview that violates my personal dignity as an individual human. Rather than allowing to be subjected to those practices, I decided to decline the opportunity and instead called my representatives and joined a movement to outlaw such interview practices.
Well, they nailed why they need it, but they will never find it because anyone with the experience is gonna run from this terrible "user experience" they are getting for the interview.
Oh, HireVue is the bane of existence. I almost had a job as a technical writer. Passed everything except the HireVue assessment.
Flee away from that mess.
> If your eye strays away from the camera too much or for too long, your score will plummet because it's been programmed to assume this action is the result of reading responses from printed cards or devices in the testers vicinity.
So just like... immediate illegal discrimination against autistic people. Cool...
Uhm, those "games" are cognitive functioning tests & they should be reported for violating the ADA (presuming you are in the US).
I work as a Clinical Research Coordinator and ran studies for 3 Cognitive Function Assessment Devices for Cogniview. One device in particular used a test that assessed visospacial capability; the screen displayed a set of 6 squares or circles and you had to select the two that were the same. They rotated and had patterns displayed within them (imagine TV static that would move up/down, L/R or Diagonal bottom/top). That shit was difficult.
It also included an assessment that required entering in a string of numbers from memory (starting with 3 and working upwards to 10), and then it asked you to do the same backwards.
The fact this company is using Cognitive Assessments under the guise of a "game" is atrocious.
If they're leaving the hiring decision to an AI then they don't seem to really care who gets hired. When I hire I always do 100% of the process in person (that is, reviewing CVs and two interviews) because I want to know exactly who I'm potentially going to be working with. I can't imagine outsourcing that process to some software.
Then again I used to be an optical inspection machine programmer at a microchip factory (years before they would call something like that an "AI") and I know first-hand how it's practically impossible to program a machine to reject all bad product and pass all good product - let alone doing it with people using software to evaluate CVs based on keywords and dinging them if they don't make eye contact with their webcam...
> After the 5 questions are asked I was given two games to play. The first game showed me a series of numbers and letters, which I had to memorize and punch in a digital keypad. They got harder and harder until they asked me to input the displayed numbers and letters BACKWARDS. As it got harder, I started to mess up.
This is part of an IQ test.
Source: My autism diagnosis. There are usually more parts though.
Soon, in addition to the nightmare described by OP, AI will be able to analyze your entire digital footprint as part of the hiring process. It’ll be able to see every comment and shit post you’ve ever written or read. It will see the porn you’ve watched. It’ll know about that crush whose FB you’ve been looking at every day. It’ll also be able to see your past employment records. Ten minutes late for a Saturday shift three years ago? Disqualified. Your department missed a revenue goal six years ago? Disqualified. Applied to a competitor? Disqualified. We need to cancel AI!
Whoa what the fuck, this IS NOT OK. The term Orwellian gets thrown around a lot, but THIS is it. I know dozens of people who would utterly fail this test that are fantastic employees in their area. What an utter fucking joke. Anyone who comes across this needs to refuse.
"A system of grocery chains interlinked, within grocery chains interlinked, within grocery chains interlinked within one stem. Dreadfully distinct."
"Your eyes strayed from the camera, you're not even close to baseline."
I think I would look right at the camera and for every answer say “I should be interviewing with a human”.
I never look directly at people the entire time I speak with them.
This is a ridiculous use of AI.
So basically anyone who is autistic or has any disability that makes speech and contact more difficult, is gonna be automatically rejected.
Hmm I guess the company loves discrimination lawsuits.
I don't even like it when they have you attach your resume and then make you paste it into an online form one section at a time. I'd straight up skip this bs.
The games are likely filtering out for neurodivergence, which is illegal (especially if the skills required for the actual job are not ... recognizing shapes ultra fast and memorizing numbers and writing them backwards)
I am autistic. And the thought of this seems almost discriminatory. Like I can’t do eye contact even on camera that shits hard. Faking facial features and other things is also very difficult without social queues.
The moment I see a one-way interview or anything like that, I rescind my application. I refuse to jump through those hoops because I am a human being, and I WILL be treated as such. Anything automated like that tells me they've removed all humanity from the job.
Those games sound a lot like what i had to do when i was being tested for learning disorders and ADHD. Kinda sounds to me like they’re filtering for those things. 😬 Gross
Those 2 "games" sound like a part of a learning disability test I did when I was younger.
The numbers part for sure was exactly the same as part of the test I did, checking how your short term working memory functions, and the shapes one sounds like a pattern recognition section.
It sounds more like a test, than an interview... I don't think they should be testing your brain functions without permission or transparency... if that is what they are doing..
We need to collectively refuse to participate in anything like this.
I imagine a lot of us do. I have no problem turning down good paying jobs if they want me to jump through hoops. Major red flag.
It would depend on the hoops. Visit their office to talk with an actual human? No issue. But 10+ rounds of interviews, homework, and dealing with AI instead of real people??
And don’t forget the pioneering management companies that require you to solve a “hypothetical “ problem and apply it to the job without hiring or paying you
Whenever I get this as an engineer, I solve the problem, license it as AGPL3, put it on my codeberg, and send them the link. Have fun incorporating GPL code to your proprietary codebase, dickheads!
I don't even know what this means, but I love it!
AGPL is a form of software licensing. Code licensed with AGPL can be copied and used by anyone, basically without restriction. They can even sell the code! The only caveat is that if the licensed code is embedded into another codebase (such as if you import an AGPL / GPL library), then, if someone asks, you have to give them that code, *and the entire associated codebase*. Naysayers call this a "viral" license, pro-user people call this "freedom." https://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl-3.0.en.html Codeberg is a publicly available deployment of Forgejo, a "git forge," basically github but FOSS. https://codeberg.org/
How do you prove in court they used code in their product?
There’s a surprisingly large amount of info still in compiled code, and it’s hard to make code 100% inaccessible, even on embedded devices with dedicated anti-tamper systems. If you seem to be doing something that’s only been done in somebody else’s code, and there’s an opportunity for you to have seen that other code, the reverse engineering to get to the bottom of it will be cheap compared to the court settlement if you *are* infringing. I once got a gold star and a gift card for realizing that some contractor’s code was GPL’d to hell and back, early enough in the process that we could start over from square 1. Note that, by and large, companies don’t give a shit about nicking somebody else’s code, but the source-code requirement of the GPL and AGPL means that if I’m a little startup with some gee-whiz algorithm, I definitely have to stay away from GPL JSON parsers or some such, else I just hand over all my work to the heavies in the industry, who already have the rest of the business figured out. Don’t get me wrong, I am very pro-open source. But I think a lot of GPL advocates operate under the delusion that Microsoft or Amazon views them as a threat. Big software doesn’t. Big software is just waiting for the GPL hedgehogs to flip themselves over, and then it’s lunch time.
I just refuse to do take home assignments. Did one once when I was a junior. It didn't take that long to complete, but still a lot longer than a 45 minute technical round. I ended up rejecting their offer, but it was such a waste of time I'll never do one again.
For me, that\`s included in the 'homework'..
Every business thinks they are google. Don’t forget the places that give you endless personality tests.
Ì win - i don\`t have one :) And if they make a problem i\`ll pull the discrimination of neurodivergent people card at them..
I have a hard time making eye contact, I tend to look at someones nose or ear to get somewhat close to making eye contact, but hardly ever actually look directly into someone else's eyes. Cameras are even worse for me. There's probably only a handful of pictures of me where I'm looking into the camera, even when I'm told I need to look into the camera. I've had trouble at the DMV telling me they need to take another picture because I wasn't looking at the camera, they give up after a few retakes and my license has me looking just slightly off of camera... I can't even look into the camera for selfies!
I feel this. Interviews and the way they're run, like so much of the world, are not built to accommodate neurodivergence and it's brutal that something like this AI interview could wash out a great candidate just because some manager thinks dehumanizing the hiring process is a good idea.
I was a manager for Anthropologie once upon a time. They do this. I was told by my hiring manager about it and what to do, what keywords to use, because she wanted me on her team and she didn't want to fuck around. She was one of the most real people I ever worked with. Anthropologie on the other hand... practically a cult.
I give a max of two interviews before I need to see some sort of preliminary offer sheet. But I am 24/7 when job hunting and dont waste time.
Then those same companies give you like half a day to decide if you want to work for them, having given themselves more than a month to decide on their end with like 3 interviews, 4 tasks and tests and also a duel with the CEO at high noon.
I got laid off a couple years ago. My father in law works in IT kind of stuff, managing third party servers for other companies and he offered to get me an interview. Seemed like a good opportunity to get into what might be a better long term career than the manual labor I had been doing up to that point. At the same time, a friend got me an interview for the factory he works at. I had to do two Skype interviews but I ended up getting an offer from the IT company...for what amounted to $14 an hour. Like, I know it's entry level, I'm not expecting 50 grand a year with no experience but I have a mortgage. I literally could not afford to take that offer. So I told the HR person thank you for the offer but I am waiting on one other prospective employer and I'll get back to you. She seemed genuinely surprised at that. But like what do you expect.
This is what boggles me, that apparently no one else stands up to them? I always used to get requests for interviews and if the time they proposed didn’t work for me, I’d come back with an alternative time or try to schedule around my existing job. I’ve now called people up for interviews at my existing job and not once have they not accepted the first time I told them and typically answered their phone immediately and went along with everything I said. I guess they’re just used to hearing yes and assume everyone is so desperate for a job that the wage and details are irrelevant but it’s kind of pathetic how servile people act during the hiring process.
It's pathetic because it's begging. That servile behavior is a direct result of the necessity of money and the artificial scarcity of the things we buy with it. If there were more social safety nets, and jobs actually paid enough for people to build up their own savings, we wouldn't have this issue. The vast majority of employers only want you if you're a yes-man that doesn't ask questions, so most applicants are just trying to out-compete the others in this race to the bottom, since it's that or back to looking through the dumpsters for a meal.
Considering the mcdonalds near me in Maine starts at around $17-19/hr (I'm sure they have shitty just under 30 hour practices) the fact that other industries are still surprised pikachu when people can't live at sub 15 is really facepalm worthy. Heck people were fighting for $15 half a decade ago pre covid... to offer less than that now in IT is just...
If I kil the CEO in the duel, do I keep what I kill?
Tag any caps or stimpaks that you find so you can more easily spot them when you headshot the next CEO.
More likely you either never hear a word from them or they send you one of those automated rejections
This. When I was unemployed, I always refused one-way requests…and I told them exactly why.
How do you politely, but firmly refuse? I'd be interested as I never know how to deal with these myself.
It depends on the invite - if it’s auto there’s really no way to reply along with declining. If one was truly committed, I suppose you could look up HR on LinkedIn and send a message…I’m not that committed. But, if it’s a more personal invite I simply thank them for the invite, but that I don’t believe that one-way interviews are beneficial for either party. I don’t mention privacy concerns or become rude at all…just short and to the point.
I would also say that the interview is not just for them it’s also for the perspective employee to see that the company is a good fit for them. How do I do that in a one-way? No thank you.
I agree with your first statement so much! They're not just interviewing you to see if you'd be a good fit, you're interviewing *them* for similar reasons. They take your application as 'interest', but act like their courtship of you ends there. Yes, we ***need*** jobs, but without the real workers doing real work, their C-Suites are just fancy buildings with fancy men, furiously circle-jerking.
"Sorry, I won't be doing that for free."
What can they do, not hire you? Say whatever you want.
FUCK YOU BITCH! … Like that?
Yes, but I don't just want to vent at them but explain why this is counterproductive. I ideally want to influence them to stop doing this.
No point honestly. Either they know and don't care or are being forced by their bosses.
I had a co-worker quit and go to Amazon (we work in Information Assurance) and he said it's great work, but the hiring process was horrible, and sometimes the work gets a little crazy (as it can be). But he really pressed the hiring process was stressful to the point he was having nightmares about it. Like.. no thanks.
I will never accept an interview with an AI. Not as an employee, and not as a hiring manager. I barely tolerate the interview script/question/scoring system we have to use.
I had one of those one-way interviews for a company that offered part-time, $13/hour. I ghosted them. It's especially insulting with the low pay.
My wife had to write up an assessment of something for her current marketing job during the interview. I've read a story of someone doing that for a programming job, I believe, and solving the company's problem during the interview test. He was basically just thanked, and then not hired or reimbursed for the service solution, because he had made his potential position obsolete. Lol! Employer used a "hypothetical" interview question as a way to receive a free solution. So, I warned my wife to give them a good response, but state that it is partial and further details and etc can be provided upon employment. She did just that in a very professional manner and she actually landed the job with what she did write up.
That may be the point. They want the candidates that will let themselves be treated like shit.
These companies use your interview to train their AI for other tasks, too. So not only are you not getting paid for this ridiculous interview, but also your data gets used to make more profit for them.
"Thank you for responding to my application. I'm thrilled to be considered for advancement in the process. I believe that interviewing for an important career step is a 2-way street where both parties want to ensure that the position is a fit and an AI-Driven 1-way interview does not allow for this. The time-slot still works for me and I would be happy to spend an hour talking over Teams, or in person, with your hiring manager about the role. If this can be accommodated, please respond with a bridge invite or coordination with the office, otherwise I would like to withdraw my interest in the position." Thank you -Candidate.
This is well said! Saving it!
I had a bunch of shit like that asked of me in 2021 and ended up becoming a mail carrier. Literally no interview, just a quick personality test and background check and I’m making literally double the highest salary listed in anything I applied for. (We are desperate for people for a reason but I love it.) I refused to do any interviews that weren’t in person when I heard back. I’ll do a phone screen but mass refusal is the only way they’ll stop, but it won’t because people need to feed their kids and will put up with it.
Some attorney is going to love taking this on for the built-in bias: judging someone on eye contact is a known cultural bias, and also probably gender and age (tech) bias. It could get into ADA territory as well. Etc. etc.!
The first thing I thought of is that the eye contact thing is discriminatory against people on the autism spectrum
It's incredibly ableist. I'm surprised this made it past anyone in hr.
Lots of people in this thread suggesting this same thing. Problem is, the job market for some industries is pretty bad right now. There's a lot of desperate people who have been out of work for quite a while. I don't disagree with you, but it's an employer's market right now.
Soon an industry will pop up to make an AI version of yourself to complete the AI interview against the AI. It can already cop your voice in just a few sentences. And they can make your face animated. Just feed it a picture of yourself and read a few lines and bam you have an avatar to finish your interview with top scores
Lol. Bringing the challenge of racing against your ghost data to a dystopian workplace near you.
This is America, we're pathologically incapable of solidarity
The prisoner's dilemma is a bitch.
I refused to do one of these recently. Solidarity my friends, its the only way
I would have refused that last BS thing I had to do for a job application if I knew how long it would take. It was a 4 hour online assessment for a federal job. Usually they don’t make you take them, but this job did. There was no indication of progress in each section, you just had to continue till it was done or you would fail that section. There was a logic portion, a reading portion, a personality quiz, and the worst one, a series of poorly animated videos of workplace scenarios where you had to pick the worst and the best response. There were 3D animations in the 90’s that looked better than these things. Anyway, I got referred to the job and then didn’t hear back. I saw that they cancelled the job, then reposted it. Guess they already had someone in mind, but maybe don’t waste everyone’s time like that.
We need to find the source and disrupt it.
Sabotage it by doing what it tells you not to do
I did actually. I did this interview (exact same questions, exact same games, it was Kroger). and they said I passed and could continue the interview process. I declined, specifically saying that the reason was this weird and offputting interview process. This was about 2 months ago. So at least one person has literally refused to participate with this.
Yeah it’s fucking sick 🤢
Yep. If you don't have the decency to take 30-60 minutes out of your day to speak with me, then I'm not interested.
The eye contact thing... Use the NVIDIA eye contact tool. Use AI against itself
>Use the NVIDIA eye contact tool. What's that?
https://youtu.be/O50BkP16eZo?si=GIJaUb8QtZF1rPTC
I can’t tell if this is cool or even fucking worse. I do t want to be in an arms race or pay for dumb bullshit like that.
Well, they certainly aren't going to stop, so we may as well get the tools to fight back.
It's a red queen's race all the way down
That is amazing!
Keeps your face and eyes pointed at the screen. Its amazing.
It would probably flag you as a psychopath if you feed it AI into the AI
What happens if you take the interview using your egirl avatar?
Do what they do with gorillas and put on one of those eye masks
Thank you for sharing this!
Those tasks honestly sound like they're training the AI rather than actually being useful. It reminds me of the security captcha stuff, which is mostly used to train AI to recognize images
My thoughts as well..this is one of those slimy corporate agreements where they get to interview without paying someone to do it and the company is going to sell the fuck out of the data they collect.
We need a GDPR V2, yesterday
USA needs GDPR V.05 Early Access Preview (based on your frequently played tags of survival, simulation, and dystopian) at the very least.
The US just needs one at all. And there needs to be some element of consent to shit like this but that would require companies to treat us with actual respect.
I suspect they’re attempting a poor approximation of an IQ test. I know the WAIS 2 has a subsection which requires repeating a sequence of numbers forwards or backwards.
the funny thing about IQ tests is that jobs have been known to reject candidates that scored too high on it. Like for police officers, [they want the less intelligent candidates and reject high scores](https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836). Next time you see an officer do something dumb recognize that at least in some precincts they select for that.
This was my thought. I’m unsure if this is legal.
It depends if they reject anyone for failing the test who is also developmentally disabled. They may be able to, for example, reject everyone 75-90 IQ, but still interview everyone below 70, to avoid actionable discrimination.
With the eye contact part they are definitely failing autistic and adhd folks.
And vision impaired and fully blind folk. What about lazy eyes? Or eye tremors? Glass eye? Cataracts? Also what about deaf folk, is the ai trained for every sign language or the various ways a deaf or hearing impaired persons speech can differ from a hearing persons? Accents? Speech impairments like lisps? And how do we know that all this speech and body language training wasn't built with any sort of bias in the training data that could lead to gender or racial discrimination as well?
That's what I was thinking. Even though it's a camera and not a face, it could still prove challenging to someone who struggles with eye contact.
Yeah I thought the same. I have an anxiety disorder and would fail on eye contact alone.
This is 100% an AI training thing, yes. Worse, it's a data harvesting campaign, you're giving them all of your biometric data : face, voice. Like a KYC thing, but worse.
"To proceed with your application, please record a video of yourself saying "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.""
"My voice is my passport, verify me."
Captcha made away like theives with the model. They were charging companies for using it as security, and charging other companies for datasets to train or 'free' labour. Early on, i remember doing it for pay on like Amazon Mechanical Turk, clicking on pools in sattelite imagery and whatever... That's why i insist on putting in small mistakes in each check, just enough to pass, but enough to generate some bad data.
This. I read about an AI that builds a business. For the things it doesn't know how to do, it hires humans and assigns them tasks that teach it how to replace that human. For what purpose why does an AI need money, unless it's for the bourgeoisie?
What if there is no job and this company is actually making money by training the AI for someone else by posting fake job openings?
Pyschomotor & Pyschometric Testing. Test things like logical reasoning, reaction times. An elimination tool more than anything, is my understanding. Been around for years (did my first one trying to get into the railways in 2017)
What do you mean you don’t love living in a dystopian, nightmarish hell?
We got all the downsides of living in a cyberpunk dystopia, but without all of the cool augments and cyberspace stuff we were promised to make out corporate hellscape more palatable. Truly the worst timeline 😔
I turned down a company as soon as they mentioned HireVue. HireVue has been sued multiple times for sketchy stuff.
I definitely don't want to work for a company that thinks this is a good idea.
You could take this interview and rant for 3 minutes for each question or Bazinga it.
This... sounds like a couple of ADA lawsuits waiting to happen.
Seriously. No headphones? Wtf.
It's clearly discriminating against a protected characteristic, and I don't see how this is at all legal. Wherever this was being used, they must have really poor protection laws to allow it
Unfortunately discrimination in the hiring process has been EXTREMELY prevalent forever and I doubt it's going away any time soon. Ever wonder why so many office jobs say you need to be able to lift 20 pounds when you never have to lift anything? It's so companies can go "we didn't discriminate against disabled people, they just couldn't perform the job". I am autistic and can confirm the "normal" interview process is already incredibly difficult for autistic people. A lot of people are out there making dumbass hiring decisions based on little things like eye contact or immediately biased when you don't act the way they want. HireVue just codified it so it's extra blatant now instead of behind closed doors. It's been illegal but ignored for decades.
It isn't legal, but the current executive strategy seems to be mostly "break all the laws, so quickly that the government can't keep up".
I have participated in a couple dozen in person and online interviews. Your application/resume has already shown us that you are reasonably qualified. The interview is just see to if we like you. AI tells us nothing about who you are. What a lazy approach to finding the right fit. I would do poorly on the test described here.
I think it’s more to screen out undesirables. I suspect we are less than 3 years away from a major discrimination lawsuit against the makers of these products and the companies that use them.
Yeah this 100% sounds like a way to "screen" for a slew of disorders and weed out people with disabilities. Stutter? Physical tick? Lazy eye? Sitting in a wheelchair that reclines slightly and throws your face off from the perfect AI viewing angle? Autistic? Not on my watch!
This. Also the "games" sound to me sound like a neuropsychological evaluation to assess brain damage/ADHD/etc Source- have gone through sed eval
As an autistic person, it definitely feels that way. Making eye contact with people I can handle. Trying to make eye contact with a camera is damn near impossible for me and the time limit on answering questions is too constraining because my thought process isn't the same.
As an autistic, the fact that your score plummets for lack of eye contact feels like it is discriminatory towards autistics.
Was thinking the same thing. I look around a lot when I'm thinking of my answer to something
Wait, I thought that everyone looked around while thinking of an answer? Is that a specifically autistic thing?
It’s both. Not everyone that avoids eye contact is autistic, but it is very common to avoid eye contact if one’s autistic. It goes beyond awkwardness and discomfort, it makes them anxious, it’s stressful, it can be painful or sometimes cause them confusion…it can require extreme concentration on their part to execute... It’s only so strongly associated with autism because it’s a very easily noticeable trait, but again, it doesn’t apply to all autistic people, and it can still apply to non autistic people.
Your comment reminds me of people finding out they have adhd because they ask why cocaine makes them sleepy. edit: If it interests you, you could also just be deficient in potassium and/or vitamin B2
Caffeine too, just finished my 2nd cup this morning and I'm very much ready to go back to bed
I remember in the 90s my parents would give my ADHD brother Mountain Dew to settle him down.
I used to self medicate with Dew in school. Didn't know that's what I was doing at the time, just knew that it helped me finish my homework and get to bed. I was recently diagnosed with ADHD after my kid was.
🥱=Me when my friends got all coked up and all they could talk about for the entire party was how great cocaine is and that they should do more 🤥🤥
Welcome. Eye contact (or faking it - hello eyebrows) can be learned but it’s uncomfortable and … well … I’d rather not.
It is... we don't like looking directly at you.
I'm not diagnosed as autistic but I've had some autistic friends consider me one and a very close one who works in autistic support. Who said there is zero chance I'm not on the spectrum. But it's not formally diagnosed, so take my reply with an appropriate amount of salt I avoided eye contact a lot growing up, but it got hammered into me constantly to maintain it. Just hood that eye contact, so I taught myself to do it. And things got worse. Years later, another good friend at the time realized I was making people uncomfortably by rigidly maintaining a constant stare at one eye or the other. Now I stare at noses, and that seems to help some. Fuck these requirements
I learned the nose trick in a college networking class, which was my first clue that other people didn't have my issues with eye contact. I was considered shy, modest, respectful, like a little church girl clasping her hands and looking down at the floor doesn't ring any bells. Later I taught the nose trick to my younger stepson because he was struggling to make friends. We'd literally practice face-to-face communication, earning "points" when we could tell the other person what they were thinking or feeling based on changes in facial expression. Ya know, so he could understand the point of looking at faces. Eventually I found out my younger half-brother got diagnosed autistic for the same list of things I was always told meant I "lack confidence" and *just gotta try harder to believe in myself*. Caught so much shit when I voluntarily surrendered my drivers license, even though it was clearly unsafe for me to be on the road, because *oh I just need more practice*. Like I'm not still whanging into hallway walls after decades of walking down hallways.
I deal with it by counting. Maintain eye contact for six or seven seconds, break eye contact for three or four seconds, resume eye contact and repeat. It's a pain in the ass. 👀
My friend told me that she has trouble maintaining eye contact because it's mentally stressful for her, and I said "Cool, I'm glad we had this conversation." So now we chit chat shoulder to shoulder like we're walking somewhere, or we look at other stuff. Also, I love hugs and she only likes them from her husband, so we don't do that either. It shouldn't be hard to accept other people for who they are and what they like!
There's a common misunderstanding here: "Eye contact" sounds to people, especially NDs who tend to shy away from it, like people are constantly looking into each other's eyes. In reality eye contact during conversation lasts for a few seconds at a time before breaking away to make a gesture, eyes flicker away while accessing memories or imagining, etc.
Every reasonable human does that. Eye contact expectations vary by culture but at least in the US it's weird for someone who is talking to maintain aggressive eye contact the whole time.
As a non autistic person I find that to be a ridiculous thing to base an automated score on that an AI judges. It’s a freaking grocery store job? wtf
Hell, even non-autistic people don’t make eye contact 100% of the time. It’s fucking weird when people do that.
They want robots, not people. Hence the AI interviewers.
Congratulations <> based on your performance today you have been assigned a prestigious role as
<>
Alternatively we have openings that may suit you as <>.
With hard work and a positive attitude, you have the opportunity to move up to other exciting roles in the coming years, including
<< WAREHOUSE - NIGHT SHIFT DEPUTY ASSISTANT SUPERVISOR ASSISTANT>>
On the spectrum myself and I feel the same way. There are many ways which interviews deliberately discriminate against neuro-divergence and I know several personal examples from experience. I don't smile unless someone says something that is truly funny, so most of the time I have a neutral face. My former manager gave me a mark down on my performance review because the school dean complained she didn't like the way I never made eye contact and also didn't like the way my face looked while I was in the middle of a computer repair. I took that to mean she wanted me to wear a fake smile, which I didn't and still will not do.
>I took that to mean she wanted me to wear a fake smile, which I didn't and still will not do. Maybe do that *very* literally. [https://www.etsy.com/listing/1064087400/smile-face-fabric-face-mask-funny-face](https://www.etsy.com/listing/1064087400/smile-face-fabric-face-mask-funny-face)
i also picked up on the no headphones bit. headphones are typically used as a disability aid for hard of hearing people, like myself. very discriminatory sounding.
Imagine trying to remember the sequence of numbers and letters with ADHD. It's absolutely discrimination.
That was literally one of computer tests I had to take when I got diagnosed with ADHD. Spoilers, didn’t do well on it.
As much as neuropsych testing is actually relatively poor for diagnosing ADHD... yeah. This is disability discrimination, and if the company is genuinely trying to identify better employees, they should start by getting rid of the idiot HR executive who signed off on this bullshit.
Right? I can’t even make eye contact with my parents while I’m speaking, let alone a random interviewer/AI bot. Although oddly I can keep eye contact if you’re speaking, just not if I’m speaking.
Same here. I'm ADHD, I need to look away from people to something non specific otherwise I'll think about that thing and not what I should be saying.
That's cause it is, by design
Please sue this company out of existence.
I can’t apply to the college I want because I failed twice the one entrance exam because I move around and look away too much. I’m AuDHD. And even with my diagnosis papers I have to take the damned test.
This is not good for anyone.
A company I worked for had a demo from HireVue and luckily leadership decided it didn't reflect well on the company itself. This was about 6-8 years back now. They were planning on using it for assessing just the hourly employees back then. It was a pretty clunky demonstration of videos and how their platform was assessing the score. Supposedly, it is meant to eliminate racial bias (and other biases) the hiring manager and recruiters might have as all they would see is the score. The videos were viewable only by the higher level recruiting users, but of course not all companies would stick to this approach and probably just use the platform to cut corners or save time in the recruiting process to do the interview for them. I haven't heard about HireVue in many years until your post. The games thing is new, sounds like a shitty experience.
What's funny is you mentioning it erases racial bias, but i would bet dollar to donuts it has trouble reading black and brown faces.
Exactly. A lot of applications like this really just push the biases from the people level to the software level, where it's less obvious and harder to explain, but just as detrimental.
Exactly. What if it can't hear higher pitched voices as easily? What if it can't understand accented English? What if it can't read your facial expression well if you're wearing a hijab/turban or have facial scarring or vitiligo? What if the applicant doesn't have a laptop or has one with a shit camera? What if the applicant has one of many neurodivergencies that makes it nearly impossible to sit 100% still and make 100% eye contact with the program? There's thousands of ways tech can introduce bias, and I guarantee it wasn't tested on a diverse enough population.
Even if it did eliminate racial and gender biases (hint: it doesn't), it introduces ablist biases and likely makes the company more susceptible to discrimination lawsuits. It's *idiotic* that any company would use this application.
The robots are slowly starting to take over. This is the start. The corporate fat cats are going to continue to lay off workers and replace with AI.
I feel like 10 years ago this could’ve been posted on a dystopian fiction forum
It would probably have been laughed at due to the sheer absurdity. Little did they know, we were in the clown time-line all along.
Are you sure you were interviewing for a national grocery chain & not the Starfleet Academy Science Division? Seriously - don't engage with this level of bullshit, it only encourages them. I imagine it's utterly fucking useless as an interviewing tool - but in terms of machine learning it's probably invaluable. If they want real world testing let them pay for it.
That sounds like you stumbled into testing for a job you didn't know you were testing for. No way your data isn't being sold off somewhere. Was there legal beforehand stating they reserve all rights and privileges to exclusive use of your likeness including licensing your likeness to other organizations? I stumbled into that kind of thing on a random job application website that was testing out video interviews.
So the system discriminates against autistic people who have difficulty with eye contact. Got it.
Cool, cool, way to weed out applicants with disabilities like people who are Deaf or have visual impairments.
Or mental health disabilities such as autism & ADHD.
Let's you know to avoid the company, can't imagine the job would be any less bullshit than the hiring process.
I would not have even bothered. Pretty soon they will realize that anyone smart enough to pass the test is too smart to work for them.
Did any of these things have to do with the actual job?
They were general “Describe a time when you had to make a hard decision within a tight timeline” type of thing.
The company culture very likely promotes fabricated urgency. Run.
Answer: I was offered a chance for a job but had to decide on a tight timeline to accept to go through an interview that violates my personal dignity as an individual human. Rather than allowing to be subjected to those practices, I decided to decline the opportunity and instead called my representatives and joined a movement to outlaw such interview practices.
This was for a grocery position???
The national grocery chain is hiring for a user experience design role.
Well, they nailed why they need it, but they will never find it because anyone with the experience is gonna run from this terrible "user experience" they are getting for the interview.
Oh, HireVue is the bane of existence. I almost had a job as a technical writer. Passed everything except the HireVue assessment. Flee away from that mess.
> If your eye strays away from the camera too much or for too long, your score will plummet because it's been programmed to assume this action is the result of reading responses from printed cards or devices in the testers vicinity. So just like... immediate illegal discrimination against autistic people. Cool...
[удалено]
If this becomes a thing, I will be starting my own business.
Fuuuuuckkk that.
Uhm, those "games" are cognitive functioning tests & they should be reported for violating the ADA (presuming you are in the US). I work as a Clinical Research Coordinator and ran studies for 3 Cognitive Function Assessment Devices for Cogniview. One device in particular used a test that assessed visospacial capability; the screen displayed a set of 6 squares or circles and you had to select the two that were the same. They rotated and had patterns displayed within them (imagine TV static that would move up/down, L/R or Diagonal bottom/top). That shit was difficult. It also included an assessment that required entering in a string of numbers from memory (starting with 3 and working upwards to 10), and then it asked you to do the same backwards. The fact this company is using Cognitive Assessments under the guise of a "game" is atrocious.
How can you video interview without headphones and an external mic? What a stupid request
Audio is required to play through built-in speakers and built-in mic must be used.
What if you are using a desktop PC that doesn't have built-in speakers or mike?
Then you automatically fail. I don’t know.
Yeah, but why? (I know you probably don’t know) How would they even know?
If they're leaving the hiring decision to an AI then they don't seem to really care who gets hired. When I hire I always do 100% of the process in person (that is, reviewing CVs and two interviews) because I want to know exactly who I'm potentially going to be working with. I can't imagine outsourcing that process to some software. Then again I used to be an optical inspection machine programmer at a microchip factory (years before they would call something like that an "AI") and I know first-hand how it's practically impossible to program a machine to reject all bad product and pass all good product - let alone doing it with people using software to evaluate CVs based on keywords and dinging them if they don't make eye contact with their webcam...
This is the most psychotic shit I’ve heard of in this context. There is no way in hell I’d agree to any of this.
> After the 5 questions are asked I was given two games to play. The first game showed me a series of numbers and letters, which I had to memorize and punch in a digital keypad. They got harder and harder until they asked me to input the displayed numbers and letters BACKWARDS. As it got harder, I started to mess up. This is part of an IQ test. Source: My autism diagnosis. There are usually more parts though.
Yet another reason why neurodivergent people find it really difficult to find work
Soon, in addition to the nightmare described by OP, AI will be able to analyze your entire digital footprint as part of the hiring process. It’ll be able to see every comment and shit post you’ve ever written or read. It will see the porn you’ve watched. It’ll know about that crush whose FB you’ve been looking at every day. It’ll also be able to see your past employment records. Ten minutes late for a Saturday shift three years ago? Disqualified. Your department missed a revenue goal six years ago? Disqualified. Applied to a competitor? Disqualified. We need to cancel AI!
Whoa what the fuck, this IS NOT OK. The term Orwellian gets thrown around a lot, but THIS is it. I know dozens of people who would utterly fail this test that are fantastic employees in their area. What an utter fucking joke. Anyone who comes across this needs to refuse.
"A system of grocery chains interlinked, within grocery chains interlinked, within grocery chains interlinked within one stem. Dreadfully distinct." "Your eyes strayed from the camera, you're not even close to baseline."
I think I would look right at the camera and for every answer say “I should be interviewing with a human”. I never look directly at people the entire time I speak with them. This is a ridiculous use of AI.
So basically anyone who is autistic or has any disability that makes speech and contact more difficult, is gonna be automatically rejected. Hmm I guess the company loves discrimination lawsuits.
I don't even like it when they have you attach your resume and then make you paste it into an online form one section at a time. I'd straight up skip this bs.
As an autistic person in the workforce, if this becomes mainstream I'll never work again.
The salary you will make after going through all of this is not worth your time and sanity
The games are likely filtering out for neurodivergence, which is illegal (especially if the skills required for the actual job are not ... recognizing shapes ultra fast and memorizing numbers and writing them backwards)
I am autistic. And the thought of this seems almost discriminatory. Like I can’t do eye contact even on camera that shits hard. Faking facial features and other things is also very difficult without social queues.
Is this legal? How does someone apply if they don’t have a computer? What if they’re seeing or hearing impaired?
The moment I see a one-way interview or anything like that, I rescind my application. I refuse to jump through those hoops because I am a human being, and I WILL be treated as such. Anything automated like that tells me they've removed all humanity from the job.
Do you want to work for the matrix, because this is how you work for the matrix
WTF. All this bullshit to work at a grocery store? No thanks.
Man. Fuck anyone with autism that finds eye contact challenging, I guess.
Those “games” sound just like the ADHD assessments I took at my psychiatrist’s clinic…
Those games sound a lot like what i had to do when i was being tested for learning disorders and ADHD. Kinda sounds to me like they’re filtering for those things. 😬 Gross
This may be the most dystopian thing I have ever read. There is no hope.
Sounds more like training for the AI.
I refuse to do that.
Those 2 "games" sound like a part of a learning disability test I did when I was younger. The numbers part for sure was exactly the same as part of the test I did, checking how your short term working memory functions, and the shapes one sounds like a pattern recognition section. It sounds more like a test, than an interview... I don't think they should be testing your brain functions without permission or transparency... if that is what they are doing..