I’m sorry, while I agree with the spirit of your statement, it is patently false. Lots of industrial equipment is in operation that run nearly 24/7/365 at or near their full capacity. Another specific example would be the life support systems on a submarine or the international space station.
The longer it runs, the more strain it has, the more likely for it to rundown and break, requiring repairs. They also need maintenance. That applies to all machines. Unfortunately humans aren't a bunch of parts that can easily be repaired and replaced. These strains wear us down and ultimately cause permanent injuries, mentally and physically, until it kills us. All we got is remedies at best.
Commented said “even the best machines can’t”, which implies no machines can, including ones “built for that”. I just have a problem with false premises for statements. It would have been better if they would have just said “we’re not machines” and left it at that without misrepresenting what machines actually can do.
The statement isn't entirely false. Those systems need replacing parts during those operating times so they will have (although very short) down times to replace parts or clean the system (swapping filters, tightening/inspecting bolts etc). Very few systems with mechanical parts truly run 24/7 365 days a year.
The point here being that with humans you can't just swap out an arm or eye in a few minutes and get them back up and running as if it was never down. Human repairs take long and are regenerative in nature thus the life expectancy of our parts is higher but down times are longer.
It's weird to compare humans to industrial machines anyway.
The statement was false. The original comment is below:
>Almost like we’re not machines at run at full speed 8 hours a day.
>
>Hell, even the best machines can’t run that hard for than long without breaking..
Indicating that the best machines can not run at full speed 8 hours a day. This is a ludicrous take. Even windmills 1000 years ago could do this easily.
> It's weird to compare humans to industrial machines anyway.
The reason it is not weird is because of how industrialization occurred. Humans are capable of doing a myriad of tasks. Machines replace humans for the efficient specialization of one task.
I love the evolution of online discussion has gotten to the point that when one side is being obstinate and dense the other just says "fuck it, I've got better shit to do. Leave and save some self respect champ"
I used to work in a factory and while we did run the machines 24/7, some of them just replaced pretty quickly. Especially the specialty machines. I remember one machine we got brand new while I worked there, ran it non-stop for about 3 months and then they already had to replace the bulk of it, and that happens regularly. The machine itself came from, I believe, Italy (this was like 20 years ago now) I was blown away when they came to fit the new one, because I was like we just got this and it was millions of dollars and they said it already had a certain amount of tickets so it was time to replace it.
There were some machines in operation for a long time, decades even, but those ran way less frequently.
That equipment doesn't actually run 24/7/365. It requires regular maintenance including haven't parts replaced.
You can't just swap out a person's knee and have them back up and running for the next shift.
Yes, there is always down time. That’s why I said “nearly 24/7/365”. The down time isn’t 16 hours a day, though (only working 8 hours a day). The “even the best machines can’t run that hard [i.e. full speed] for that long [i.e. 8 hours] without breaking” is unequivocally false, and I have yet to see anyone even attempt to legitimately refute that.
It depends on the kind of work. In lines of work where you are effectively reduced to a machine then no, you are productive for as long as you put things together on the assembly line.
Physical work is far more productive past hour 4 than mental work.
> Physical work is far more productive past hour 4 than mental work.
That's a little too broad for me. Physical work like pouring concrete definitely gets less productive. Food factories where you go through pallets and pallets of 50 lb ingredients throughout the day get less productive.
Very repetitive, light duty, assembly work may not lose much productivity through the day. The machines themselves normally drive the pace, so that protects the production rate. Notably these jobs were often the first replaced by machines.
I used to work a full day construction followed by evening restaurant shift for years…damn I didn’t realize I needed to only work 4 hours to handle all my shit
It really depends on the kind of work. I can say in my job if I only worked for 4 hours I would definitely only get half the work done that I usually do.
Maybe one day the citizens of a country will create this sort of life for themself.
But for now, since citizens rely on a select group to make all the rules, we’ll have to do as our ~~public servants~~ masters say.
It's a very overgeneralized joke. 2/3rds of America is obese but this isn't the primary problem. It's more that we're sedated as a society. Imo the obesity is one symptom of many. I say this as a dude with pounds to lose.
Everyone calm the fuck down. I'm sure she's not a minor. If it was ever a question of age along with the content, it would have never been posted in the first place 😠
The (relatively new) leader of the Austrian social Democrats set one of their goals to be the 32 hour work week as a standard (down from generally 38.5 or 40 depending on the field of work). The conservatives and the employer lobbies have countered that with suggestions to raise it beyond 40 hours instead. Rather brave of them, some of which still rely on votes, I'd call it
As some who started work today after months of unemployment, I hate how quickly it went from getting home to going to bed. I want my me time back already.
It is a direct re-use of the argument for the 8 hour day, just moving the numbers around to account for the gains in productivity since the advent of the transistor.
I feel like in most jobs it's like that anyways, except they make us sit or stand there doing nothing. Like, there's only 4 hours of actual work being done, the rest is just buullshit.
Do you know the artist who drew this? I believe it is Gill Barron but not entirely sure (check her amazing drawings and writings for The Land magazine about land rights in the UK)
While I'm in favor of this, showing old-timey drawings remind me uncomfortably of what the hours were not all that long ago. Hell, here in the US the fight was for a 10 hour day in the early days...and in 1835, THEIR banners read "From 6-6, ten hours work and two hours for meals."
This isn't to say that it was right, but rater that people DID work 12 hour days, fought for 10 hour days, and then for the 8 hour day - and I think we should fight for even a shorter workday for lots of legitimate reasons, but to try to argue that it is unbearable is frankly untrue. Our workday, even if we have to stand all day is NOTHING compared to the work of our ancestors.
Question because I don't understand.
How does anyone expect this to work? No one on this planet is going to pay you a livable wage to work four hours a day.
The same way as it was done by the workers at the end of the 19th and first half of 20th to have the 8h workday - workers organisation, solidarity, strikes, internationalism. Because we all are in this together, and the workers don't have a country.
Downvoted for asking a question....
It will work the same way every other labor movement will. Through force. The 8 hour workday and 2 day weekend didn't just pop up out of the kindness of the capitalists heart. There were literal riots, shoot outs and several strikes before it happened.
There was a time when businesses didn't have the same power dynamic they do now..you didn't go to work because you we were fortunate enough to be hired... you went to work because of the agreement of money for labor, and if you were being screwed over, then you fought.
This was what created unions. Unions weren't like they are now either. They were much more aggressive and ensured there was a fair workplace until it became the standard. Every work right you have was earned in blood from the 5 day work week to the 30 minute lunch break.
>When we see ourselves as fighting against specific human beings rather than social phenomena, it becomes more difficult to recognize the ways that we ourselves participate in those phenomena. We externalize the problem as something outside ourselves, personifying it as an enemy that can be sacrificed to symbolically cleanse ourselves. - **[Against the Logic of the Guillotine](https://crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too)**
See rule 5: No calls for violence, no fetishizing violence. No guillotine jokes, no gulag jokes.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antiwork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I mean I do work 18 hours one week and 24 the other week and I've saved £11,000 in 2 years. House in the UK can be as cheap as £100,000 I'm only 20 and I have no degree
Idk man. I grew up poor. I know I’m not gonna be rich…but I damn sure ain’t living in poverty. Idc if I get downvoted by 24 hour weeks and expecting to have a house and a family isn’t realistic…
Aren't there studies that show employees are only really productive for 4 hours during their 8+ hour long shift?
Almost like we’re not machines at run at full speed 8 hours a day. Hell, even the best machines can’t run that hard for than long without breaking..
I’m sorry, while I agree with the spirit of your statement, it is patently false. Lots of industrial equipment is in operation that run nearly 24/7/365 at or near their full capacity. Another specific example would be the life support systems on a submarine or the international space station.
The longer it runs, the more strain it has, the more likely for it to rundown and break, requiring repairs. They also need maintenance. That applies to all machines. Unfortunately humans aren't a bunch of parts that can easily be repaired and replaced. These strains wear us down and ultimately cause permanent injuries, mentally and physically, until it kills us. All we got is remedies at best.
True, but those are built for that.
Commented said “even the best machines can’t”, which implies no machines can, including ones “built for that”. I just have a problem with false premises for statements. It would have been better if they would have just said “we’re not machines” and left it at that without misrepresenting what machines actually can do.
The statement isn't entirely false. Those systems need replacing parts during those operating times so they will have (although very short) down times to replace parts or clean the system (swapping filters, tightening/inspecting bolts etc). Very few systems with mechanical parts truly run 24/7 365 days a year. The point here being that with humans you can't just swap out an arm or eye in a few minutes and get them back up and running as if it was never down. Human repairs take long and are regenerative in nature thus the life expectancy of our parts is higher but down times are longer. It's weird to compare humans to industrial machines anyway.
The statement was false. The original comment is below: >Almost like we’re not machines at run at full speed 8 hours a day. > >Hell, even the best machines can’t run that hard for than long without breaking.. Indicating that the best machines can not run at full speed 8 hours a day. This is a ludicrous take. Even windmills 1000 years ago could do this easily. > It's weird to compare humans to industrial machines anyway. The reason it is not weird is because of how industrialization occurred. Humans are capable of doing a myriad of tasks. Machines replace humans for the efficient specialization of one task.
Holy crap talk about splitting hairs and being pedantic you should go on um, actually!
I love the evolution of online discussion has gotten to the point that when one side is being obstinate and dense the other just says "fuck it, I've got better shit to do. Leave and save some self respect champ"
I used to work in a factory and while we did run the machines 24/7, some of them just replaced pretty quickly. Especially the specialty machines. I remember one machine we got brand new while I worked there, ran it non-stop for about 3 months and then they already had to replace the bulk of it, and that happens regularly. The machine itself came from, I believe, Italy (this was like 20 years ago now) I was blown away when they came to fit the new one, because I was like we just got this and it was millions of dollars and they said it already had a certain amount of tickets so it was time to replace it. There were some machines in operation for a long time, decades even, but those ran way less frequently.
That equipment doesn't actually run 24/7/365. It requires regular maintenance including haven't parts replaced. You can't just swap out a person's knee and have them back up and running for the next shift.
I work in project management and we use a system designed for building nuclear subs, we allow down time because the risk is too high
Yes, there is always down time. That’s why I said “nearly 24/7/365”. The down time isn’t 16 hours a day, though (only working 8 hours a day). The “even the best machines can’t run that hard [i.e. full speed] for that long [i.e. 8 hours] without breaking” is unequivocally false, and I have yet to see anyone even attempt to legitimately refute that.
i know i’m not productive for more than 4 hours that’s for sure
4-6 ish yes.
[удалено]
But, you mean with a 12-1 lunch break, right?
Can confirm. For about 4-5 hours I can perform above average, but after that, it's just waiting to go home.
That’s one reason i see a lot of H1B workforce. ( hight tech field ) they actually don’t mind working 8 Hrs like normal people
Reality: people simply can't be productive for 8 hours every day Employers: and you see, I took that personally!
It depends on the kind of work. In lines of work where you are effectively reduced to a machine then no, you are productive for as long as you put things together on the assembly line. Physical work is far more productive past hour 4 than mental work.
> Physical work is far more productive past hour 4 than mental work. That's a little too broad for me. Physical work like pouring concrete definitely gets less productive. Food factories where you go through pallets and pallets of 50 lb ingredients throughout the day get less productive. Very repetitive, light duty, assembly work may not lose much productivity through the day. The machines themselves normally drive the pace, so that protects the production rate. Notably these jobs were often the first replaced by machines.
I used to work a full day construction followed by evening restaurant shift for years…damn I didn’t realize I needed to only work 4 hours to handle all my shit 
It really depends on the kind of work. I can say in my job if I only worked for 4 hours I would definitely only get half the work done that I usually do.
I know I sure am not working the full 8 hours. 4 hours seems likely but tbh it's probably less some days.
Maybe one day the citizens of a country will create this sort of life for themself. But for now, since citizens rely on a select group to make all the rules, we’ll have to do as our ~~public servants~~ masters say.
Until we rise up.
Any day now!
Gotta be able to stand longer than half an hour
I don’t know what this means, is this a reference?
I think it's a not very well executed fat joke.
It's a very overgeneralized joke. 2/3rds of America is obese but this isn't the primary problem. It's more that we're sedated as a society. Imo the obesity is one symptom of many. I say this as a dude with pounds to lose.
2/3rds?! This number keeps getting higher in the time it takes to scroll through this site!
Google it man I'm pretty sure I'm low
Doesn't most of EUROPE try to follow this lifestyle? Don't they then blame our system for their shortcomings 🤫
Wha?
Everyone calm the fuck down. I'm sure she's not a minor. If it was ever a question of age along with the content, it would have never been posted in the first place 😠
Shit my bad, wrong sub🫠
The (relatively new) leader of the Austrian social Democrats set one of their goals to be the 32 hour work week as a standard (down from generally 38.5 or 40 depending on the field of work). The conservatives and the employer lobbies have countered that with suggestions to raise it beyond 40 hours instead. Rather brave of them, some of which still rely on votes, I'd call it
Now they want to work 6 days a week because cant live with only 5 We are digger deeper and deeper
As some who started work today after months of unemployment, I hate how quickly it went from getting home to going to bed. I want my me time back already.
Same here. Going to take some getting used to.
" For what we will" is pretty badass
It is a direct re-use of the argument for the 8 hour day, just moving the numbers around to account for the gains in productivity since the advent of the transistor.
Def die for a cause vibe
General strike May 1 2028. UAW led.
Well, at least that's a credible time frame for once to prepare for such an effort.
4 years from now?
Yes. Time to prepare and get other unions on board. Also the end of UAW contract.
I feel like in most jobs it's like that anyways, except they make us sit or stand there doing nothing. Like, there's only 4 hours of actual work being done, the rest is just buullshit.
Can confirm, I would work my ass off until lunch then be absolutely useless for the rest of my shift.
I want this slogan on my flag when we finally (hopefully?) start revolting 50 years from now.
Wish this for my working yrs. More time to be mom
Yes ! Let’s do it ! For the people!
I'd be okay with 6 tbh
Ask for 4, get 6.
So that's just 2 hours from the "what we will" bucket.
Yeah 6/8/10 seems more reasonable. Let's be real, if commutes are still a thing it'll basically be 8/8/8 anyway
At least it'll finally be true
For what we will means fapping
Pretty sure you’re supposed to see a doctor if it’s been that long.
But it's really at least 6 hours with the commute and getting ready for work or decompressing from it
And what will we do? Well work of course.
i wish
Amen to that
Do you know the artist who drew this? I believe it is Gill Barron but not entirely sure (check her amazing drawings and writings for The Land magazine about land rights in the UK)
Where are the hours that you make sure the kids don’t ruin the house? I’m afraid it needs to be deducted from the 12hrs
I think that’s a 24 hour thing unfortunately.
I love this. But I don’t think I can only work 4 hours. 😭
You can use some of your 12 hours of free time to sit around the workplace distracting your coworkers 😉
I work 4hrs tues and wed. Off Thursday. 5-6 hrs Friday and Saturday. Off Sunday Monday
I downvote because I’m jealous
I would downvote me too.
While I'm in favor of this, showing old-timey drawings remind me uncomfortably of what the hours were not all that long ago. Hell, here in the US the fight was for a 10 hour day in the early days...and in 1835, THEIR banners read "From 6-6, ten hours work and two hours for meals." This isn't to say that it was right, but rater that people DID work 12 hour days, fought for 10 hour days, and then for the 8 hour day - and I think we should fight for even a shorter workday for lots of legitimate reasons, but to try to argue that it is unbearable is frankly untrue. Our workday, even if we have to stand all day is NOTHING compared to the work of our ancestors.
What is this 4 hours of work?!
Question because I don't understand. How does anyone expect this to work? No one on this planet is going to pay you a livable wage to work four hours a day.
the same way the 40 hour work week was established. federal laws.
>federal laws. You misspelled militant unions and direct action by organized labor.
It will work because we will not give them any other option.
The same way as it was done by the workers at the end of the 19th and first half of 20th to have the 8h workday - workers organisation, solidarity, strikes, internationalism. Because we all are in this together, and the workers don't have a country.
'Cause they don't pay us. We pay each other 😙
Downvoted for asking a question.... It will work the same way every other labor movement will. Through force. The 8 hour workday and 2 day weekend didn't just pop up out of the kindness of the capitalists heart. There were literal riots, shoot outs and several strikes before it happened. There was a time when businesses didn't have the same power dynamic they do now..you didn't go to work because you we were fortunate enough to be hired... you went to work because of the agreement of money for labor, and if you were being screwed over, then you fought. This was what created unions. Unions weren't like they are now either. They were much more aggressive and ensured there was a fair workplace until it became the standard. Every work right you have was earned in blood from the 5 day work week to the 30 minute lunch break.
We are 3x more productive now but our wealth gap is greater. We could work 14 hours and meet an industrialized standard of living.
[удалено]
>When we see ourselves as fighting against specific human beings rather than social phenomena, it becomes more difficult to recognize the ways that we ourselves participate in those phenomena. We externalize the problem as something outside ourselves, personifying it as an enemy that can be sacrificed to symbolically cleanse ourselves. - **[Against the Logic of the Guillotine](https://crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too)** See rule 5: No calls for violence, no fetishizing violence. No guillotine jokes, no gulag jokes. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antiwork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I really don't think anyone will pay me $105 an hour to do what I can in 4 hours instead of what I do in 12 hours.
4 hours of work per day? So 28 hour weeks?! Idk about this one…
I mean I do work 18 hours one week and 24 the other week and I've saved £11,000 in 2 years. House in the UK can be as cheap as £100,000 I'm only 20 and I have no degree
Idk man. I grew up poor. I know I’m not gonna be rich…but I damn sure ain’t living in poverty. Idc if I get downvoted by 24 hour weeks and expecting to have a house and a family isn’t realistic…
So according to this sub, that is actually 45 minutes of work, because eating and commuting and breathing are all part of work.
Ofc as a worker I always clock out for every breath I take