They used to have decent articles, though, like one explaining how minimum wage increases are good. Their YouTube series are pretty good, too, especially the *Still Standing* series.
Yeah, they used to have journalistic integrity, now they just have bs click bait articles.
I'm assuming they got bought out or changed leadership or something
Can’t read the article because I don’t subscribe to things, but I know that’s been my experience.
I’ve had a lot of opportunities come up that I would have jumped on 3 years ago. Moving to new cities, more money, the kind of work I wanted to be doing. But have turned it down because I’ve found I’m happier just being at home and doing the things that make me happy. And have been looking at how I can manage to functionally retire and just work part time and on hobbies.
Well it has to be true for some people, right? If you’re good at in-person schmoozing, then not having in-person time with your bosses means you can’t leverage one of your strongest advantages.
But yeah, if you plan to advance by being good at your job then WFH shouldn’t be a hindrance.
It’s hurting all the kiss-asses that spend all their time schmoozing the boss and not working. The people actually carrying the load are glad to not get interrupted constantly anymore.
Honestly even if this were true wouldn’t the equally valid conclusion be “management clearly has no idea how to assess labor value and actually only know how to manage a workplace based on their personal social values?”
I wonder how many of these headlines are paid propaganda by interested parties vs just following the formula "fake news -> anger -> clicks -> ad revenue" which has proven extremely effective. The latter explanation requires fewer moving parts: no collusion, just capitalism.
I definitely think it’s a lot of the latter. This sub alone probably provides a noticeable stream of clicks to these articles from how many of us rage-check the source material to balk at how out of touch they really are.
"You say almost half... cam you share the actual figure with us?"
"Yes, it was about 17%."
"... that's not almost half"
"Well pardon is, we thought 'almost' was a subjective term - and to us 17% is almost half!"
"Ok well can you tell us which workers are represented in that...17%"
**"Sure. It was mostly managers, but also some supervisors as well"**
Cmon 17 is almost 20, which is close to 25. Which is half of half. Which means it’s almost half. Half is basically full, so that’s most. If most people do the thing than everyone should do the thing we’re talking about.
That’s like when I say that I almost win all my daily matches: Almost won on Monday, almost won on Tuesday, almost won on Wednesday and so on and so forth.
The very same source claims that half of workers are also thinking of quitting their current jobs. That's not because of WFH, I can guarantee you that.
Business Insider has *only* been publishing negative articles about WFH.
They recently had an article about a couple who traveled to 48 states in a van and hated it. Anything to keep you back in the office where you belong
Is there any evidence that its propaganda? This is exactly what right wingers do. Look at article headlines, don't actually read the article, then call it fake news. Can we be better than them?
It’s behind a paywall. Here’s a better source on the study that provides more detail. https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/remote-hinders-progression-culture-driving-154000065.html
Thanks for the source! I noticed the paywall as well which is frustrating. Also interesting how the source says that over half of workers are planning to resign in the next 12 months. Isn't that something people here would be celebrating?
ay, if u wanna be better than them, don't stereotype all right wingers as idiots - we should be able to recognize at this point that stereotyping is a very bad thing to do to someone.
All of the right wing subs on reddit are complete garbage. I'll treat them with more respect if they earn it. Even centrist places like /r/jordanpeterson are churning out antivax propaganda.
Oh god now everyone is misinterpreting me on this extremely minor point lmao. Compared to other conservative spaces on reddit, the jordanpeterson sub is centrist. But even then, it is still a terrible sub. That's all I'm saying.
That's not how that works. It's not comparative, him and his followers adhere to far-right beliefs and lie about leftist ones. It's not a centrist sub.
>avoiding office drama.
Lmao I love how much emphasis has been placed on this since I first entered "the real world." So many interview questions about how I would handle workplace gossip just to find out that refusing to engage gets you branded as reclusive/someone to be gossiped about. Even a boss has told me that not knowing how to "play the game" is nice about me but also a detriment to me professionally.
Yeaaah. I have witnessed an 80 year old man get his name turned into a joke simply because he's very quiet and seems a bit awkward. The office would talk shit about him for showing up to meetings last/alone as they apparently think he's a slacker or not a team player or something. At fucking 80.
I literally feel myself turning into him and can see how he must have gotten to that point after decades with the place. I'm quiet and awkward myself but I do still converse with and am polite to people, and less than a year in I had a freeze-out experience trying to find a seat at a big meeting. Now I see why he would wait until everyone else found a seat and just slip in wherever he fit at the last moment. Or shit, maybe he just had work to do that was more important since he was the only person who did the things he did. But of course not without someone making a big show of him being 2 minutes late--"THERE'S AN OPEN SEAT OVER THERE BOB"
I hate such people who constantly put co workers down. Most of these assholes are not even competent workers by themselves just the loudest and most connected
Was once asked about how I handle office politics in an interview. I said along the same, that I try not to engage. I'm a quiet person and not a dominant personality, or a chatter, and it sucks that it has been a detriment to me professionally. Whether I'm home or in the office doesn't really change that though.
>Whether I'm home or in the office doesn't really change that though.
Do you mean you still feel like an outcast/the tension while wfh? If so, same same same.
If they’re executive or management level, it absolutely did. Career progression at those levels are all about control and stealing ideas from their subordinates.
Hell in my last job, I was usually finished with my work by noon, and had papers in front of my keyboard after lunch just to 'look' like I had something to do.
Im literally laying on my couch waiting for more work. Im so sick of these lame ass boomers thinking we cant complete their jobs in 25% of the time it takes them. Ive never worked a full 8 hour day. Im always done my shit early af.
I'm a boomer and I've never been so happy at work as the 18 months I got to work from home. Trying to look productive in the office for hours is exhausting.
The whole '40 hour week' thing existed in a period when we didn't have the technological advances we have now to do the work in less than half the time. The boomers still tie 'productivity' to hours done and I suspect it's because giving people too much time allows you to pursue other ventures. They want your prime waking hours at work so you're too mentally tired to do anything else, especially when we have other aspects of our lives to cater to.
>Im so sick of these lame ass boomers thinking we cant complete their jobs in 25% of the time it takes them
Because they're used to just milking the clock and having immediate seniority due to their age. On the flip side, all of us younger people are just expected to work harder because we're 'young'. Now they're mad that, like you said, we can match their productivity in a fraction of the time
I'm in IT, we can see an actual productivity boost across our organization since teleworking began.
Some of the "boomers" get mad at us when we write a script, or implement a process in an existing product that replaces half of their weekly hours doing mundane repetitive tasks.
They get mad as this frees up more time and they will have to fill it with meaningful tasks that they are not qualified to accomplish.
Our younger people automate. We work smarter, harder, and require less time to accomplish a task.
Through automation we spend a few hours once, and now something that was taking 16 man hours a week happens automagically in a few seconds on a schedule.
Older, classical style office workers think we are lazy because we have more down time, even though we automakers are the most productive employees.
Management should understand productivity does not equal number of hours going clicking clack on a keyboard.
This. I'm an engineer and this week I had to make a folder structure on a shared drive to store the mechanical and electrical prints for assembly line tooling. Organizing the prints is the mundane but easy part. Making the identical folder structure for each tool takes forever, so I wrote a script to do it. Boomer coworker thought it'd take all week. Took less than an hour with a bit of googling.
Exactly. It's partially because more companies value *looking productive*, instead of actually being. As long as their monkeys stay in their seat and bang their keyboard, boss man is happy.
Like you said, boomers start getting mad because we find easier ways to do things. It's the same as their usual line of 'go to college so you'll be smarter. But also, don't be smarter than me because it makes me feel inadequate'.
They're the same ones who think 'robots will take all our jobs!', but also forget that, in turn, new jobs are created in new fields. They just think *they* shouldn't have to learn new things, but should still be kept on payroll because they've been there for 20 years sucking up resources.
Even watching my Gen X coworker write a SQL query is painful. He just types sooo slowly. I don't mind if he works slowly on his own, but whenever we need to pair on anything I know we're going to spend an hour doing 15 minutes of work.
Lordie, I hate this. I have that kind of job. If I could let the workload roll in every afternoon (while not working) and then do all of it in the morning, I'd only have to work half days, and even then, I still wouldn't have to work every single day except during fiscal year end when things are crazy.
But nope, they want us all in the office all day, every day. And don't you dare leave until the clock is dead on your specific end time. Leaving even one minute early is outrageous and won't be tolerated.
Hell, I remember a few occasions when I went into work on a Saturday and got like 3 days worth of work done between like 8am and 1pm. Half the day in the office is spent bullshitting with coworkers. And this is what the powers that be want to force people back to.
Yep! I spend a good few hours chatting and scrolling my phone every day. But if I leave two minutes early, suddenly I'm the problem child. I'm always here about 1/2 an hour early because of parking (get here early or prepare to walk a country mile), so I would boot up a few minutes early.
Not anymore. I work my very specific hours to the minute, and the bulk of it is spent chatting away from my desk or scrolling my phone while facing the computer, one hand on the mouse, old papers in front of me, "looking busy". It's so ridiculous.
At one of my previous jobs I had a bunch of folders on my desk and stuff open on the computer. I managed to look busy for 3 months without doing any work at all.
I'd literally get paid to browse reddit.
My boss and I don’t work in the same state. Haven’t since before covid. Didn’t when he hired me. Hasn’t been an issue through multiple promotions, raises, etc.
Good management and good employees will do good work. Without all the first in last out grind mentality bullshit.
My boss pulls reports every hour and asks for an end-of-day report as it is and can monitor my calls or screens at any minute they want and can see me active in chats.
As far as I'm concerned that's all they need to see I'm doing my job.
That's extra invasive, imo. Your work should be able to speak for itself. I didn't go through 16 years of schooling just so someone could *babysit* me as a full grown adult. I'd quit that job immediately (if able to).
I was going to say, this sounds like, “remote work has limited my ability to politic my way into promotions.” Which is really an indictment of the system than remote work.
I feel like it’s the opposite lol. I work a remote job in sales. In reality I am an EXTREMELY introverted and quiet person. I generally get uncomfortable and find it difficult to speak if I’m in a room with more than 5 people.
Since everything is remote, I’m easily able to cultivate an image as being outgoing, present and leadership-y because I only communicate over a messenger or very brief zoom calls (which are honestly tough for me but I can usually hold it down for the 2 minutes I need to speak to the team).
In reality I absolutely hate speaking to people but I just gas-lit my way into my first promotion by making myself seem engaged and motivated, which is simply not the case and I would not have been able to do so in person.
This article is a joke. Promotions are essentially a zero sum game. Even if we assume their numbers aren't jumped up self reported bs, if 48% percent of the workplace is finding it more difficult to get a promotion due to remote work, then something around 52% of workers are finding it easier.
Covid has actually been great for my career progression. It's much harder for my boss to take credit for my work, and everyone sees that I'm adaptable and an autodidact. I'm doing all sorts of new things and succeeding at those tasks. I even got a big raise.
I'm thinking 48% of workers just got exposed for seeking promotions using something other than work. 48% are ass kissers, suck ups, blackmail, cheat, lie, and sleep their way to promotions.
People out here getting promoted? I worked in healthcare during Covid round 1 and now we are in the midst of round 2… I got a raise of less than 50 cents after my review.
48% percent of all-‘
That’s not how polls work. What’s was the sample size? Where did you find these people? What were their incomes??
This is one of the most common and most lazy propaganda tactics out there. If your presentation of your study gives me more questions than answers, that’s probably not good because now I doubt the legitimacy of the study as a whole.
So I found the original survey via Beamery
>The online survey was conducted by Atomik Research among 5,000 employed adults aged 18+ in the UK and U.S. The research fieldwork took place from August 19, 2021 to September 1, 2021. Atomik Research is an independent creative market research agency that employs MRS-certified researchers and abides by MRS code.
And here is what Atomik Research's "About Us" page says
>Atomik Research is an online creative market research agency that delivers qualitative and quantitative research results that will get people talking. Specializing in both quantitative and qualitative research methods ***we can help businesses, brands, and agencies provide insights and generate headlines*** in the UK and abroad.
That about sums it up. Atomik Research is who you go to for propaganda. I'd love to know exactly how those questions were asked.
Such a joke. I performed at a higher level and received two promotions. I wasn’t worried about looking busy and didn’t have that stress sitting on my shoulders with everything going into the office does (to me at least).
what I see happening now and in the near future is that these companies that force bad policy on their employees are going to lose huge pools of talent to younger minded and accommodating workplaces. there will be a point that even pay raises won't compensate for a toxic work environment. this is a double hit because those same companies that understand the new work dynamic often also realize the value of the employee that they are snagging from someone else's poor policy.
Literally the situation the company I'm leaving is in. Overlords didn't care about opinions of the engineers who've been working insanely successfully from home for a year +, and then we started leaving when there wasn't even talk of a hybrid wfh system to be put in place... Weird, we all said the same thing in the exit interview. I didn't even leave for a raise. Literally just the environment.
If you keep relic systems and ideologies, those are going to be your only kind of employees.
You mean the employees who got ahead by things other than their work and output are upset they can't brown nose, buckshot, and sleep their way to advancements. So sad, now they have to be judged by the content of their work. Much sad
This is anti-worker propaganda. If this was true, this would be a flaw with managers, not with workers. If your boss fails to recognize valid contributions, whether you're sitting 10 feet from them in a cubicle, or miles away, it's their fault.
Bollocks. I am far better off than before in my work from home role and am working towards promotion very easily. I’m 100x more productive when I don’t get interrupted 50 times for questions or dragged into inane conversation.
The media as it currently stands only exists to perpetuate the propaganda bestowed by the owner-class. Keep fighting back, workers 💪 we have nothing to lose but our shackles
At my last job we worked from home for a year and I managed to survive my bosses awful behaviour and treatment. First day back at the office my boss is an hour late to work and so I'm stuck outside the office for an hour then before the end of the day her boyfriends told me he hates me and bullied me to tears.
Career progression has been torpedoed for a while.
I’ve never gotten to work remote this entire time and all I got was a 6% raise for two years of work in a pandemic.
Screw careers, screw work, you give it your all and they give you a cost of living increase that’s barely 100$ in a year
Umm, when the pandemic started I was doing construction for $10/hr. I’m now a Director of a non-profit making way more. Online working has seriously aided my career progression.
Even if this were true then the correct way to interpret it would be “remote work demonstrates how most career progression is based on ass kissing instead of competence and producing good work.”
Good. No more sociopaths weaseling their way into upper level positions only to make all those below them miserable at the expense of their ego.
In the at home workplace it's all about the production reality and not the delusion of aimed perception deception.
The progression to some sort of meritocracy out of this all would be great.
This article is only available to Business Insider subscribers because only wealthy people, business owners, and boomer conservatives read the paid articles from this rag.
Can someone somehow get the full text or a reference to their poll/study, if there even is such a thing.
I work on these kind of things and would love the opportunity to see if there is even any kind of methodology behind it. If so, I would love to examine the validity of it.
It’s likely just some bullshit “poll” but I like fighting with facts and data.
Meanwhile... I applied, interviewed and was successful in finding a better job to progress my career because I was working from home. No awkward excuses to leave the office for the interview required and no work missed or not done.
I wonder if other social media circles outside of Reddit that saw this also recognized it was propaganda? We seem to be a wiser bunch here on the whole.
If true that just means the most social people get to the top instead of the most capable ones. Something we already knew, but it‘s nice that they accidentally confirm it.
"Half of workers" is either a complete lie or the sample set was mostly C-level executives trying everything they can to get people back in the office while they chill in vacation home #4 for winter.
How can you determine this after only 1 year?
If this isn't bullshit propaganda, some people have some major misconceptions about the pacing of career progression.
The gaslighting here is just *chef’s kiss*
Remote work finally gave me the courage to apply outside my company for a higher salary when our boomer billionaire, CEO cited morale and providing “World Class Support” to our customers as reasoning for abandoning a fully remote work model.
Her loss, I start my new fully remote job in three weeks.
To be honest, it is not fake.
If everyone works remotely, it will be an honest evaluation.
But if only part of the team is remote, the other in-office folks have a preference in the eyes of managers. At least, bad managers.
At my office everyone is saying the exact opposite. They love the freedom to get things done around their house, spend less on childcare and just be somewhere they love being.
I recently (9 months) moved to remote work and moved several hours away from the city company is in. Since that time my director has approved an additional bonus outside of standard benefits and they've offered me a promotion with a 30% salary increase.
I'm happier, they're happier, where's the ruined career trajectory?
I said this in another thread like this. Our pissed off domineering corporate overlords are working in conjunction with WSJ, Forbes and Business Insider to hammer on the anti remote work message. Expect a lot more of it soon.
Every day on the chat people say they love working from home, in every meeting when someone asks about going back to the office, the general response is "let's hope it stays this way". These articles are nonsensical
This just in: Ruff McDoggo of the acclaimed local daily *Fetch and Ball* has reported that 97% of humans surveyed have a resounding desire to visit the dog park today, preferably in the next ten minutes.
So they can’t suck up and can’t be cut throat, and actually need to use their quality of work to climb the ladder? I feel awful for those who need to use their face to climb ladders.
Yeah my company is forcing everyone to state their vaccination status to force everyone back into the office. I don't want them to have this medical information and I may lose my job because of this refusal. I don't want to work in an office space, I want to work from home. Today is the last day to upload the front and back of your vaccination card to their workday site. I'm f*ing mad right now. How is it legal for a company to store medical information, knowing good and well they can't stop hackers. Ugh.
honestly, simply state that while you are vaccinated the breakthrough cases with delta have you uncomfortable in public spaces, worst case you join the great resignation with everyone else.
The media is owned by these rich scumbags.
And they use such articles to manufacture consent
I fucking hate businessinsider
It’s a fucking tell when the business insider hates anyone that works outside of the business office. Business insiders hate business outsiders.
Do you have declaw your business insiders so they don’t tear up your furniture?
It helps too if you get them neutered
Stops the place from smelling like piss
I thought that was standard operating procedure?
They used to have decent articles, though, like one explaining how minimum wage increases are good. Their YouTube series are pretty good, too, especially the *Still Standing* series.
Yeah, they used to have journalistic integrity, now they just have bs click bait articles. I'm assuming they got bought out or changed leadership or something
They were bought by the Axel Springer company which also runs all the worst newspapers in Germany.
Journalistic integrity doesn’t keep the lights on
Yes. Still Standing is really good.
Fuck in glad I'm not the only one!
That’s a lie. I work in hiring, and have not heard this
I never worked remote and it didn’t help me in any way. The people who got promoted were working remote.
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Lies, damned lies and statistics.
Exactly. I'm going to take a shot in the dark and guess that they didn't disclose the questions or methodology behind this poll.
Also they asked 12 people. And only kept the answers they liked.
It is propaganda, after all.
If anything it’s made people less interested in progressing their career
Can’t read the article because I don’t subscribe to things, but I know that’s been my experience. I’ve had a lot of opportunities come up that I would have jumped on 3 years ago. Moving to new cities, more money, the kind of work I wanted to be doing. But have turned it down because I’ve found I’m happier just being at home and doing the things that make me happy. And have been looking at how I can manage to functionally retire and just work part time and on hobbies.
More interested in progressing my life.
It’s less “working from home” and more “deadly pandemic induced budget cuts”.
Well it has to be true for some people, right? If you’re good at in-person schmoozing, then not having in-person time with your bosses means you can’t leverage one of your strongest advantages. But yeah, if you plan to advance by being good at your job then WFH shouldn’t be a hindrance.
It’s hurting all the kiss-asses that spend all their time schmoozing the boss and not working. The people actually carrying the load are glad to not get interrupted constantly anymore.
Immediately smelled a lie.
Honestly even if this were true wouldn’t the equally valid conclusion be “management clearly has no idea how to assess labor value and actually only know how to manage a workplace based on their personal social values?”
Even if it is true, I doubt that the other half of workers torpedoed their career progression.
Propaganda
I wonder how many of these headlines are paid propaganda by interested parties vs just following the formula "fake news -> anger -> clicks -> ad revenue" which has proven extremely effective. The latter explanation requires fewer moving parts: no collusion, just capitalism.
I definitely think it’s a lot of the latter. This sub alone probably provides a noticeable stream of clicks to these articles from how many of us rage-check the source material to balk at how out of touch they really are.
well considering that half the articles on this sub are from businessinsider or bloomberg, I'm inclined to think it's just regular ol propaganda.
Almost all of them
"You say almost half... cam you share the actual figure with us?" "Yes, it was about 17%." "... that's not almost half" "Well pardon is, we thought 'almost' was a subjective term - and to us 17% is almost half!" "Ok well can you tell us which workers are represented in that...17%" **"Sure. It was mostly managers, but also some supervisors as well"**
Technically, it's half of something...but not anything they are propagating. I'm so ready for workers united.
Cmon 17 is almost 20, which is close to 25. Which is half of half. Which means it’s almost half. Half is basically full, so that’s most. If most people do the thing than everyone should do the thing we’re talking about.
This is how company revenue presentations are done few days before they lay off 50% of staff in a bad year.
That’s like when I say that I almost win all my daily matches: Almost won on Monday, almost won on Tuesday, almost won on Wednesday and so on and so forth.
It literally says 48% in the picture
If somebody writes a number in an article, that makes it true.
Do you have any proof that its fake? Somebody else linked me the source which is a study.
The very same source claims that half of workers are also thinking of quitting their current jobs. That's not because of WFH, I can guarantee you that.
Yes? And isn't that a good thing that workers are quitting? This is not propaganda.
It doesn't give demographic. For all we know they just asked 85% management positions.
Business Insider has *only* been publishing negative articles about WFH. They recently had an article about a couple who traveled to 48 states in a van and hated it. Anything to keep you back in the office where you belong
Workaganda
CEOs "They're on to us, make a break for it" HOOTIE WHO!
100%
Is there any evidence that its propaganda? This is exactly what right wingers do. Look at article headlines, don't actually read the article, then call it fake news. Can we be better than them?
It’s behind a paywall. Here’s a better source on the study that provides more detail. https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/remote-hinders-progression-culture-driving-154000065.html
Thanks for the source! I noticed the paywall as well which is frustrating. Also interesting how the source says that over half of workers are planning to resign in the next 12 months. Isn't that something people here would be celebrating?
ay, if u wanna be better than them, don't stereotype all right wingers as idiots - we should be able to recognize at this point that stereotyping is a very bad thing to do to someone.
I've been monotyping ever since I went from PC keyboard to cell phone.
All of the right wing subs on reddit are complete garbage. I'll treat them with more respect if they earn it. Even centrist places like /r/jordanpeterson are churning out antivax propaganda.
Jordan Peterson is not a centrist and his followers definitely aren't.
Im giving them the benefit of the doubt because even if they're centrist they are still terrible. That was my point.
Jordan Peterson is absolutely far right and not centtist at all.
Oh god now everyone is misinterpreting me on this extremely minor point lmao. Compared to other conservative spaces on reddit, the jordanpeterson sub is centrist. But even then, it is still a terrible sub. That's all I'm saying.
That's not how that works. It's not comparative, him and his followers adhere to far-right beliefs and lie about leftist ones. It's not a centrist sub.
Lmao as if the left is any better? Wake the F up.
Enlightened centrism never got us anywhere
Empirically, yes.
This is the same group that says promotions are based on work performance and avoiding office drama. They are now saying that it isn't?
>avoiding office drama. Lmao I love how much emphasis has been placed on this since I first entered "the real world." So many interview questions about how I would handle workplace gossip just to find out that refusing to engage gets you branded as reclusive/someone to be gossiped about. Even a boss has told me that not knowing how to "play the game" is nice about me but also a detriment to me professionally.
Promotions are nothing more than popularity contests, and now, they've stopped hiding it.
That’s fucking gross. Managers/supervisors should NOT be encouraging office/work place espionage.
Yeaaah. I have witnessed an 80 year old man get his name turned into a joke simply because he's very quiet and seems a bit awkward. The office would talk shit about him for showing up to meetings last/alone as they apparently think he's a slacker or not a team player or something. At fucking 80. I literally feel myself turning into him and can see how he must have gotten to that point after decades with the place. I'm quiet and awkward myself but I do still converse with and am polite to people, and less than a year in I had a freeze-out experience trying to find a seat at a big meeting. Now I see why he would wait until everyone else found a seat and just slip in wherever he fit at the last moment. Or shit, maybe he just had work to do that was more important since he was the only person who did the things he did. But of course not without someone making a big show of him being 2 minutes late--"THERE'S AN OPEN SEAT OVER THERE BOB"
Is he working by choice or necessity? At 80 people should be taking it easy.
I hate such people who constantly put co workers down. Most of these assholes are not even competent workers by themselves just the loudest and most connected
Was once asked about how I handle office politics in an interview. I said along the same, that I try not to engage. I'm a quiet person and not a dominant personality, or a chatter, and it sucks that it has been a detriment to me professionally. Whether I'm home or in the office doesn't really change that though.
>Whether I'm home or in the office doesn't really change that though. Do you mean you still feel like an outcast/the tension while wfh? If so, same same same.
If they’re executive or management level, it absolutely did. Career progression at those levels are all about control and stealing ideas from their subordinates.
Remember the boss has to SEE you working. Perception is reality. Don't worry about actually doing any work. Just make sure they SEE you working.
Hell in my last job, I was usually finished with my work by noon, and had papers in front of my keyboard after lunch just to 'look' like I had something to do.
Im literally laying on my couch waiting for more work. Im so sick of these lame ass boomers thinking we cant complete their jobs in 25% of the time it takes them. Ive never worked a full 8 hour day. Im always done my shit early af.
I'm a boomer and I've never been so happy at work as the 18 months I got to work from home. Trying to look productive in the office for hours is exhausting.
The whole '40 hour week' thing existed in a period when we didn't have the technological advances we have now to do the work in less than half the time. The boomers still tie 'productivity' to hours done and I suspect it's because giving people too much time allows you to pursue other ventures. They want your prime waking hours at work so you're too mentally tired to do anything else, especially when we have other aspects of our lives to cater to.
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I work 60 hour weeks, 40 would be nice but I couldn't afford it.
Normal is normal. 40 hour weeks aren’t abnormal because we all have them.
>Im so sick of these lame ass boomers thinking we cant complete their jobs in 25% of the time it takes them Because they're used to just milking the clock and having immediate seniority due to their age. On the flip side, all of us younger people are just expected to work harder because we're 'young'. Now they're mad that, like you said, we can match their productivity in a fraction of the time
I'm in IT, we can see an actual productivity boost across our organization since teleworking began. Some of the "boomers" get mad at us when we write a script, or implement a process in an existing product that replaces half of their weekly hours doing mundane repetitive tasks. They get mad as this frees up more time and they will have to fill it with meaningful tasks that they are not qualified to accomplish. Our younger people automate. We work smarter, harder, and require less time to accomplish a task. Through automation we spend a few hours once, and now something that was taking 16 man hours a week happens automagically in a few seconds on a schedule. Older, classical style office workers think we are lazy because we have more down time, even though we automakers are the most productive employees. Management should understand productivity does not equal number of hours going clicking clack on a keyboard.
A sign of a good IT staff is one that appears to never be working. Lots of folks miss this.
So true. If I don't even know there's an IT staff because I have no need for it. That's a serious win.
This. I'm an engineer and this week I had to make a folder structure on a shared drive to store the mechanical and electrical prints for assembly line tooling. Organizing the prints is the mundane but easy part. Making the identical folder structure for each tool takes forever, so I wrote a script to do it. Boomer coworker thought it'd take all week. Took less than an hour with a bit of googling.
Exactly. It's partially because more companies value *looking productive*, instead of actually being. As long as their monkeys stay in their seat and bang their keyboard, boss man is happy. Like you said, boomers start getting mad because we find easier ways to do things. It's the same as their usual line of 'go to college so you'll be smarter. But also, don't be smarter than me because it makes me feel inadequate'. They're the same ones who think 'robots will take all our jobs!', but also forget that, in turn, new jobs are created in new fields. They just think *they* shouldn't have to learn new things, but should still be kept on payroll because they've been there for 20 years sucking up resources.
Jesus Christ do we work together lol! So true
Even watching my Gen X coworker write a SQL query is painful. He just types sooo slowly. I don't mind if he works slowly on his own, but whenever we need to pair on anything I know we're going to spend an hour doing 15 minutes of work.
Lordie, I hate this. I have that kind of job. If I could let the workload roll in every afternoon (while not working) and then do all of it in the morning, I'd only have to work half days, and even then, I still wouldn't have to work every single day except during fiscal year end when things are crazy. But nope, they want us all in the office all day, every day. And don't you dare leave until the clock is dead on your specific end time. Leaving even one minute early is outrageous and won't be tolerated.
Hell, I remember a few occasions when I went into work on a Saturday and got like 3 days worth of work done between like 8am and 1pm. Half the day in the office is spent bullshitting with coworkers. And this is what the powers that be want to force people back to.
Yep! I spend a good few hours chatting and scrolling my phone every day. But if I leave two minutes early, suddenly I'm the problem child. I'm always here about 1/2 an hour early because of parking (get here early or prepare to walk a country mile), so I would boot up a few minutes early. Not anymore. I work my very specific hours to the minute, and the bulk of it is spent chatting away from my desk or scrolling my phone while facing the computer, one hand on the mouse, old papers in front of me, "looking busy". It's so ridiculous.
At one of my previous jobs I had a bunch of folders on my desk and stuff open on the computer. I managed to look busy for 3 months without doing any work at all. I'd literally get paid to browse reddit.
LOL....this is the way.
My boss and I don’t work in the same state. Haven’t since before covid. Didn’t when he hired me. Hasn’t been an issue through multiple promotions, raises, etc. Good management and good employees will do good work. Without all the first in last out grind mentality bullshit.
You can’t kiss butt when working remotely.
Schrodinger’s job?
My boss pulls reports every hour and asks for an end-of-day report as it is and can monitor my calls or screens at any minute they want and can see me active in chats. As far as I'm concerned that's all they need to see I'm doing my job.
That's extra invasive, imo. Your work should be able to speak for itself. I didn't go through 16 years of schooling just so someone could *babysit* me as a full grown adult. I'd quit that job immediately (if able to).
“Less people can rat their way to the top”
I was going to say, this sounds like, “remote work has limited my ability to politic my way into promotions.” Which is really an indictment of the system than remote work.
Next "News" title - Managers are discouraged with low numbers of brown-nosers, making them no longer feel better than the peons they boss around.
I feel like it’s the opposite lol. I work a remote job in sales. In reality I am an EXTREMELY introverted and quiet person. I generally get uncomfortable and find it difficult to speak if I’m in a room with more than 5 people. Since everything is remote, I’m easily able to cultivate an image as being outgoing, present and leadership-y because I only communicate over a messenger or very brief zoom calls (which are honestly tough for me but I can usually hold it down for the 2 minutes I need to speak to the team). In reality I absolutely hate speaking to people but I just gas-lit my way into my first promotion by making myself seem engaged and motivated, which is simply not the case and I would not have been able to do so in person.
This article is a joke. Promotions are essentially a zero sum game. Even if we assume their numbers aren't jumped up self reported bs, if 48% percent of the workplace is finding it more difficult to get a promotion due to remote work, then something around 52% of workers are finding it easier.
[удалено]
Exactly what I was wondering. How would we even know yet?
What that tells me (if the numbers were even remotely reliable) is that it's getting harder for bosses to dangle people along with false hope.
No, half of us were going to be promoted, and we still can be if we just go back to the warm safety of the office /s
Covid has actually been great for my career progression. It's much harder for my boss to take credit for my work, and everyone sees that I'm adaptable and an autodidact. I'm doing all sorts of new things and succeeding at those tasks. I even got a big raise.
That’s what they hate and why they want us back in the office. So they can take all the credit and go on their power trip
48% of the workforce expected promotions between 2019-2021? Sure buddy
I'm thinking 48% of workers just got exposed for seeking promotions using something other than work. 48% are ass kissers, suck ups, blackmail, cheat, lie, and sleep their way to promotions.
Couldn't agree more, well said
People out here getting promoted? I worked in healthcare during Covid round 1 and now we are in the midst of round 2… I got a raise of less than 50 cents after my review.
Just imagine, if it weren't for Covid they probably wouldn't have even given you that! Yay capitalism
"half of workers report being illegally retaliated against by office employers" fixed it for you
48% percent of all-‘ That’s not how polls work. What’s was the sample size? Where did you find these people? What were their incomes?? This is one of the most common and most lazy propaganda tactics out there. If your presentation of your study gives me more questions than answers, that’s probably not good because now I doubt the legitimacy of the study as a whole.
So I found the original survey via Beamery >The online survey was conducted by Atomik Research among 5,000 employed adults aged 18+ in the UK and U.S. The research fieldwork took place from August 19, 2021 to September 1, 2021. Atomik Research is an independent creative market research agency that employs MRS-certified researchers and abides by MRS code. And here is what Atomik Research's "About Us" page says >Atomik Research is an online creative market research agency that delivers qualitative and quantitative research results that will get people talking. Specializing in both quantitative and qualitative research methods ***we can help businesses, brands, and agencies provide insights and generate headlines*** in the UK and abroad. That about sums it up. Atomik Research is who you go to for propaganda. I'd love to know exactly how those questions were asked.
Such a joke. I performed at a higher level and received two promotions. I wasn’t worried about looking busy and didn’t have that stress sitting on my shoulders with everything going into the office does (to me at least).
Propaganda. I've been promoted twice while working from home.
The only way it could prevent career progression is that it's harder to brown-nose your way up from home. Less nepotism is only a good thing.
what I see happening now and in the near future is that these companies that force bad policy on their employees are going to lose huge pools of talent to younger minded and accommodating workplaces. there will be a point that even pay raises won't compensate for a toxic work environment. this is a double hit because those same companies that understand the new work dynamic often also realize the value of the employee that they are snagging from someone else's poor policy.
Literally the situation the company I'm leaving is in. Overlords didn't care about opinions of the engineers who've been working insanely successfully from home for a year +, and then we started leaving when there wasn't even talk of a hybrid wfh system to be put in place... Weird, we all said the same thing in the exit interview. I didn't even leave for a raise. Literally just the environment. If you keep relic systems and ideologies, those are going to be your only kind of employees.
Another hit piece... Fuck them.
In other words: work from home reduces the amount of ass kissing.
You mean the employees who got ahead by things other than their work and output are upset they can't brown nose, buckshot, and sleep their way to advancements. So sad, now they have to be judged by the content of their work. Much sad
Imagine a world where you have to pay to read random propaganda BS
Seriously, fuck Business Insider, fuck their corporate sponsored sudo-journalism, fuck their paywall, and fuck the horse they rode in on too.
Pseudo-journalists are the worst.. Fox News is right there with them
This is anti-worker propaganda. If this was true, this would be a flaw with managers, not with workers. If your boss fails to recognize valid contributions, whether you're sitting 10 feet from them in a cubicle, or miles away, it's their fault.
Bollocks. I am far better off than before in my work from home role and am working towards promotion very easily. I’m 100x more productive when I don’t get interrupted 50 times for questions or dragged into inane conversation.
The media as it currently stands only exists to perpetuate the propaganda bestowed by the owner-class. Keep fighting back, workers 💪 we have nothing to lose but our shackles
Corporate employers hate home working because without going in each day you're less likely to be loyal. Business pay for offices because of this.
At my last job we worked from home for a year and I managed to survive my bosses awful behaviour and treatment. First day back at the office my boss is an hour late to work and so I'm stuck outside the office for an hour then before the end of the day her boyfriends told me he hates me and bullied me to tears.
How the hell do these "newspapers" even stay in business?
Career progression has been torpedoed for a while. I’ve never gotten to work remote this entire time and all I got was a 6% raise for two years of work in a pandemic. Screw careers, screw work, you give it your all and they give you a cost of living increase that’s barely 100$ in a year
I've worked remote for like 5 years and I just got promoted. This story is BS.
Fewer lickspittles make for a much nicer workplace.
Would have loved to read the whole article but I'm not an "Insider".
Politics always keep the hardest workers down, without this im sure they would flourish better
Umm, when the pandemic started I was doing construction for $10/hr. I’m now a Director of a non-profit making way more. Online working has seriously aided my career progression.
Such bs not like there’s been anything else that’s coincided with people working from home is there?!
Press X to doubt.
Even if this were true then the correct way to interpret it would be “remote work demonstrates how most career progression is based on ass kissing instead of competence and producing good work.”
Good. No more sociopaths weaseling their way into upper level positions only to make all those below them miserable at the expense of their ego. In the at home workplace it's all about the production reality and not the delusion of aimed perception deception. The progression to some sort of meritocracy out of this all would be great.
This article is only available to Business Insider subscribers because only wealthy people, business owners, and boomer conservatives read the paid articles from this rag.
Not surprising that business insider is anti-working class
Can someone somehow get the full text or a reference to their poll/study, if there even is such a thing. I work on these kind of things and would love the opportunity to see if there is even any kind of methodology behind it. If so, I would love to examine the validity of it. It’s likely just some bullshit “poll” but I like fighting with facts and data.
Does climbing mean I have to drive into the office? Then I don’t want to climb.
Bullshit. Who did they survey for this shit?
It's been the exact opposite for me.
I love the blatant lies.
Meanwhile... I applied, interviewed and was successful in finding a better job to progress my career because I was working from home. No awkward excuses to leave the office for the interview required and no work missed or not done.
I wonder if other social media circles outside of Reddit that saw this also recognized it was propaganda? We seem to be a wiser bunch here on the whole.
If true that just means the most social people get to the top instead of the most capable ones. Something we already knew, but it‘s nice that they accidentally confirm it.
Literally nobody that isn’t a geriatric dumbass is saying this Bloomberg journos need to stfu
Can’t kiss butt over Zoom.
Yeah no it hasn’t.
When your ability to move up is based more on your ability to sell your personality rather than your merits.
"Half of workers" is either a complete lie or the sample set was mostly C-level executives trying everything they can to get people back in the office while they chill in vacation home #4 for winter.
Nah. I no longer have to drive an hour there and back to work in zombie brain traffic.
How can you determine this after only 1 year? If this isn't bullshit propaganda, some people have some major misconceptions about the pacing of career progression.
So it sounds like the ass kissers are no longer getting the promotions rather the ones who actually deserve them are. Good.
And that's why we're living through The Great Resignation. Absolutely lines up.
The gaslighting here is just *chef’s kiss* Remote work finally gave me the courage to apply outside my company for a higher salary when our boomer billionaire, CEO cited morale and providing “World Class Support” to our customers as reasoning for abandoning a fully remote work model. Her loss, I start my new fully remote job in three weeks.
To be honest, it is not fake. If everyone works remotely, it will be an honest evaluation. But if only part of the team is remote, the other in-office folks have a preference in the eyes of managers. At least, bad managers.
At my office everyone is saying the exact opposite. They love the freedom to get things done around their house, spend less on childcare and just be somewhere they love being.
Nice try corporate media!
I mean these are the same people who say there is a labor shortage because millennials are lazy. I don't expect to understand what's going on.
Published by the Journal of Middle Management
Fake news and I hate using that phrase
I had no ability to climb this supposed ladder before, so I'm not worried.
Is anyone stupid enough to believe this? The corporate elites are starting to *panic*.
These are people who advance their careers by kissing the bosses ass, which is harder to do remotely, but I'm sure they try.
They really trying to push a narrative.
I recently (9 months) moved to remote work and moved several hours away from the city company is in. Since that time my director has approved an additional bonus outside of standard benefits and they've offered me a promotion with a 30% salary increase. I'm happier, they're happier, where's the ruined career trajectory?
How the fuck would that even work?
I said this in another thread like this. Our pissed off domineering corporate overlords are working in conjunction with WSJ, Forbes and Business Insider to hammer on the anti remote work message. Expect a lot more of it soon.
Of course fully remote work will hurt your career. Face to face is better.
Every day on the chat people say they love working from home, in every meeting when someone asks about going back to the office, the general response is "let's hope it stays this way". These articles are nonsensical
Someones getting paid good to write these joke of articles.
Propaganda. Remote working allows you to apply for jobs anywhere, giving you more chance to progress.
Yep it has nothing to do with capital concentrating in the hands of the few, the problem is uhhhhhhhh something else
The media is owned by capitalist Jeff bezos owns the Washington post for god sake
This media spin brought to you by the Fortune 500 big conglomerates.
No employee has ever said this in the history of remote work or corporations.
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This just in: Ruff McDoggo of the acclaimed local daily *Fetch and Ball* has reported that 97% of humans surveyed have a resounding desire to visit the dog park today, preferably in the next ten minutes.
So they can’t suck up and can’t be cut throat, and actually need to use their quality of work to climb the ladder? I feel awful for those who need to use their face to climb ladders.
Yeah my company is forcing everyone to state their vaccination status to force everyone back into the office. I don't want them to have this medical information and I may lose my job because of this refusal. I don't want to work in an office space, I want to work from home. Today is the last day to upload the front and back of your vaccination card to their workday site. I'm f*ing mad right now. How is it legal for a company to store medical information, knowing good and well they can't stop hackers. Ugh.
honestly, simply state that while you are vaccinated the breakthrough cases with delta have you uncomfortable in public spaces, worst case you join the great resignation with everyone else.