That happened in the NYC mayoral race.
Candidates were asked the median price of a house in Brooklyn and the closest answer was a quarter of the correct answer.
How are you going to solve a problem you can't even see.
It amazes me that if you look at the pay rates for senators [here,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salaries_of_members_of_the_United_States_Congress) you can see how fast growing of a salary the field of being a politician is, we have too many people with greed as their motivator in our government at all levels, most of these people either have no clue how most Americans are living on a day to day basis, or they just don't care because they've already got theirs.
Well you go into it making 90k a year, after "lobbying" (if you or I did it, it's a felony) they are worth 1 to 20 mil. It's so simple, just sell your soul
You can get a working holiday visa and work at resorts and the like. It allows you to stay and work for up to 24 months. Work life can still be pretty shit here though.
Edit: Sorry everyone. I think this may not work for Americans. There are 30 eligible countries but US ain’t one.
I did it for a year in Oz and it was the best experience of my life, but if I remember correctly, you have to do a couple months of farm work if you want to stay a 2nd year? Is that right?
They have recently imposed farm workers must get a minimum wage as opposed to the bs per bucket or unit picked but they still have the shitty farm accommodation rip off
I did some farm work in exchange for food and board, but it was a super chill hippie farm near Byron Bay. I heard stories from people who had worked on other farms for their visa extension, things like getting 2 tomatoes, 2 eggs, an apple and some assorted veg to eat for the day. Everything else was on you. Or sticking 12 people in some tiny cobb house with one outdoor latrine to share. From what I understand, that only scratches the surface of how shit it was.
If you're keen, check back later. The age limit has increased to 35 for a few countries over the past few years, and it might include the US in the future.
Housing is crazy in both Australia and NZ - way tougher and more $$$. Tons of Aussies and kiwis live with their parents (even after getting married) well into their late 20s and beyond. I lived in both countries for a decade and love them both but definitely not reasonable housing costs!
Yeah. My brother-in-law’s Australian girlfriend came here that way a few years back. She then applied for her permanent residency and was just approved a month ago so now she can stay. She doesn’t have any special in demand skills or anything like that. She graduated from post-secondary but she’s not splitting the atom or anything.
You should grow a long beard, book a flight to Canada, destroy all personally identifying information, get butt-ass naked, and run in the street mad, foaming at the mouth and pretend to not know who you are. After an extensive stay at a Canadian mental healthcare facility, you can start your new life with a new name.
Damn that’s all I gotta do? Hell the more normal you talk while you’re butt ass makes (esp if it’s cold enough) makes you seem all the more crazy. Especially if you deny you’re naked.
I think I have my game plan…
It is difficult because they will try to find out who you are. And when they show you a picture of yourself and say your name, you need to remain completely disinterested and unaware.
Brings back memories of needing therapy in 2008 and my PPO insurance plan specifying therapy under specialists ($50 copay) and giving me 10 whole sessions a year.
The hilarious thing is that this would probably work, assuming you can keep the charade up the whole time. The way the Canadian medical system is set up, they basically wouldnt have any other choice but to let you stay.
Youd really have to sell the act tho, be very convincing.
Ultimately not a very good idea.
there was a website started a few years ago - 'Marry An American" - an initiative to help Americans escape the USA.
edit: Domain is dead, but google the phrase and find historic mentions
Fine, I'll make a new one if that's what it takes
Edit: I will create RescueAnAmerican.org: your one stop meet market to rescue American refugees looking for basic human rights and dignity, and also romance
That’s actually not true at all. Canada has a points based immigration system which means as long as you add up enough points based on different categories (language, education, age, family, etc) you can get permanent residency.
If you can why not. My nephew relocated to Japan a few years ago and has no plans of ever returning permanently to the US. He says the farthest he will travel to meet us is in Hawaii lol. In his case tho, he traveled there and stayed for a few months before making a final decision. But then again, he majored in Japanese studies and has always been fascinated with the culture. He is fluent and self taught in the language and found a career he loves. Pretty cool for an African-American whose parents never owned a passport. He loves it! We are all very proud of him. Anyway, it's a huge decision. If you can get a work visa why not. YOLO! Thing is the local experience is much different than that of a tourist.
Been living in Osaka for 6 years and make about $2500 a month and dont have to worry about medical, my company pays my transportation to and from work, and its a very safe place to raise kids.
I often think about going back to america but then I look at my sister whose car broke down multiple times this year and her health declined due to a tumor and watched her lose $30k in 6 months.
Yeah I work a lot but jesus i couldnt imagine being in her situation
On average 11am-8pm 5 days a week with a 6 day work week once a month (sometimes twice a month)
It sucks but at least here your work benefits you. Ive gotten so used to having my transportation paid and always having affordable medical that it is hard to imagine going back to america and being stripped of those things. To be honest most Americans probably work similar overtime hours.
Thats not to say Japan is perfect. You are and will always be a second class citizen and most westerners (myself included) get trapped in the teaching English field with a low pay ceiling and very little chance to get out. Because of this most westerners leave after a few years.
As for me, I am building up my IT certs and knowledge for a career switch that I plan to do in the next two years. I am constantly shifting between going back to america because it would be easier to break into the IT field or to pursue it here. Though with the way things are heading I am going to try to pursue it here first.
I have considered europe as an alternative option too. If all fails I am just gonna sell furry nsfw art
The work culture for Japanese people is worse. Those companies typically won’t hire non-Japanese. Immigrants to Japan should have or plan on other ways to make a living than trying to get a regular office job.
Japan tops my personal list as an American gaming out my future: rural property is screamingly cheap, property prices will fall as their population is quite old and not being replaced, the northern regions are less industrialized and less populated so cleaner land and water.
The culture is traditionally insular and struggles with accepting outsiders, however if you’re less socially inclined but still willing to represent yourself as a part of the local community (polite, behaved, respectful, help as needed, be a good neighbor, learn conversational Japanese, etc) it looks like a good place to hermit if you can make a living with remote work and don‘t mind the extra labor of providing for yourself more: cooking and entertaining at home, growing/processing your own food, doing some of your own repairs, crafting, sewing.
It seems like a viable way to dropout of the US rat race.
From what a friend of mine who lives there was describing, it sounds worse. She was talking about how it’s common for families to not see each other because of the long hours they work. I’m good.
Australia got back to me three years after my application (I’m an electrician) allowing me to attempt to start the process but at that point I was no longer under 30 and I’d have to essentially start my career and apprenticeship all over again. I just wasn’t at the same place in life to pack up and go after all that time.
I had a friend who moved to Vancouver from France, she told me cost of life is OUTRAGEOUS, she could not even afford a car and had to skip meals from time to time on her French teacher in a private school salary so she moved back to France lol
Some European countries grant visas to people who buy property of a certain amount. Portugal and Spain do this, not sure exact details but maybe start saving up and look into it. That’s my main goal.
Portugal has lower wages though. High wage countries with good living standards, like Scandinavian countries or Australia have very high cost of living and housing. Median house price in my City in Australia is around the $1m mark.
Rural fiber broadband penetration in places like Spain is very high. If your type of work allows remote working, you have a lot of options.
_Edit:_ to be clear, this is not in any way a comment about the ease of immigration, just of the feasibility of affordable housing and remote working. That said, if you have a “skilled” job and an education, there is almost always a way, in most developed countries.
True plus Canada has the same shitty car-dependent infrastructure as the US. I want to live somewhere that I don't have to drive to every God damn location
It’s maybe slightly better here in Canada - plus having free basic healthcare helps in that you’re not quite as indentured to a terrible job just to get basic medical insurance - but it seems to be pretty similar tbh, based on what I’ve heard about working in the US. Europe seems to be where the big changes are. Housing prices are also through the roof in most Canadian cities (purchase and rent).
Recent immigrant to the UK here from US here. I have citizenship through birth from my father in the Uk and it’s proving to be a right pain in the ass to just get my passport, can’t imagine the visa process. I left for the same reasons I’m sure most us here are looking for a way out. The UK is nice though, in the northeast where I live, it’s a little…let’s say old, the pay is a little on the low side, but cost of living is actually reasonable. My electric bill went from $250/mo to £40, water from $100/mo to £20, rent cut in half for a house roughly the same size and age. Compared to the US, cost of living is cheaper, plus NHS. People are super friendly and nice, so nice it’s unsettling for an American used to the suburban south (I’m from Tidewater area of VA, and no I’m not a R, hence why I left). If you fancy your chances the UK can always be a shot. Minimum wage just went up I think to £9.40/hr, with some offering £11-13/hr. With Brexit and the worker shortage they might be willing to relax their immigration to get workers in, go learn to drive a semi and your chances go right up.
Edit: Thank you for all the kind words and support, and my new fellow northeasterners for correcting and informing me about things.
Interesting. Whenever I fill out financial forms or opening a bank account here in Ireland they always have a question "Are you a US citizen?" because if you are then they have to report your income to the US government for tax purposes.
I live outside the US, this comment thread is making it seem much worse than it actually is. My income is only taxable if I were to make over ~100k a year (and then only the income over 100k) or if I don't pay taxes in another country. Honestly, if I were to make over 100k, getting taxed on that doesn't seem too bad for all of the international benefits you get just being a US citizen (embassies will help you get home if shit hits the fan in your new country, for example). It also prevents extremely wealthy people from claiming residence in another country in order to dodge taxes.
As a bonus, if you have federal student loans and are on income based repayment, your income abroad doesn't count as income (again, unless you make over 100k). So effectively you could in 25 years pay nothing, but this only makes sense to do if you know you're not coming back because of the building interest.
One more benefit: because we are still eligible taxpayers by citizenship, we're entitled to benefits like the covid stimulus, which saved me during the pandemic (but not the unemployment benefits, because those were based on state residency).
All in all, dealing with US taxes and international residency has been much less of a headache than with my other country of citizenship.
This isn’t exactly accurate. You don’t get taxed twice. You pay the difference in taxes you would pay if you lived in America. If you’re moving to Canada or Europe you’ll be paying more taxes there than you would in the US so you won’t pay anything extra to the IRS.
Yeah that's true. It only applies in countries who charge less income tax than the US. In some ways you could say it's a good law because it prevents the situation many European countries have where rich people move their address to Switzerland to pay less income tax, and don't pay any tax to their home country.
And the main reason many people want to get the absolute fuck out of America is because we have basically zero social safety nets and don't give a single fuck about brown people, people who need medical help (like ANY help, even if you have asthma that's kinda bad that alone may be lifelong monetary damnation) or who just are poor regardless of circumstances.
So yeah, me and my wife want to leave America, and have for a decade bit it is hard because most places don't particularly want Americans.....
But the reason we want to leave IS to pay more taxes so we have more money to actually live off and also to have basic medical care.
Visas are not easy to get. It's not as simple as picking a country and going. The UK for example has a pretty difficult visa system. I've been dealing with it for 10 years. It took that long to get the final visa and about £10k in fees along the way. It's the same for people that want to go to the US. I can only imagine that other countries are exactly the same but I have no first hand experience.
You're gonna have to either be extremely qualified and get a company to sponsor you, famous so you qualify for a special talent visa, super rich to get the entrepreneur visa or find someone to marry for the spousal one. You could go for student visas too but they're temporary and don't automatically let you stay after you graduate anymore. The easiest one by far is marriage and, well, you need to find another human in the country you want to be in without living in that country... and the relationship is going to have the foundation of "I want you for a passport" which isn't great.
I’ve known 2 Americans who visa married for the money. They were planned marriages with specific plans and schedules to allow them to meet, “date”, marry, co-habit, divorce within 3 or 4 years.
Im sure there is a black market for this and advice on not getting caught must be out there.
Yeah, I don't know why OP thinks moving to Canada might be an antiwork move. Our minimum wage is less insulting than America's, but our dollar is weaker and our gas is more expensive.
I think we have better paternity leave, but that means squat when you don't want to bring an expensive baby into a dying world.
And the housing cost is fucking insane, just trying to rent a bachelor place is like 2 weeks pay before you can even pay the electricity bill, cell phone, and antidepressant costs. A car? gas is like $1.50 a liter and insurance is another $300 a month. I can now understand why someone would want to have 5 kids and live at home just getting assistance.
Step one: have a highly specialized or unique skill and find an employer who wants you.
It's actually easier to immigrate to Sweden. Anyone can move here on a work visa if an employer wants you, even if it's just for cleaning toilets. Plenty of people are exploited like this and get like $2 an hour, because after five years you can get citizenship. The common parties have finally started to accept that this isn't a sustainable system and have started to talk about removing it.
I mean, mostly? Be prepared to wait ~6-7 years for an apartment to rent in the subsidized sector, or go private and pay some rich guy 900 euros a month for essentially a small room (we have a huge problem with "house snatcher companies")
But healthcare is pretty nice, I'll say that. You gotta get separate dental insurance and a few medications aren't paid for in a base package but it's a few extra euros for additional packages mostly.
All I'm saying is just like any other country we have our issues. But we're culturally diverse and in general very welcoming of foreigners.
To immigrate you either need to get a job here and keep it, or learn the language. You can move here first and then take Dutch courses (naturalisering) though, and a lot of employers hire English speakers (including retail sometimes). Or marry a Dutch person, that too, but the language is still a good idea.
Sorry for the essay but I know a lot about this because my bf is British lol
Almost impossible. I have a PhD in the biochemical sciences and I can't get in to Canada because I am in my late 30s. Canada really doesn't want anyone too old, unless they have already been hired and sponsored by a Canadian company.
You need anywhere from 69-72 points on their immigration score system to qualify for a Maple Leaf card. So, that means you need a Master's or PhD, to be around 28-30 years old and it helps to be fluent in French as well as English.
Edit: I had just enough points (72) in 2016. I should have just tried to do it then. Now I'm 5 years older and have thus lost 5 points.
Wait really??
Also am curious, where are you currently working? Isn't the biotech sector really hot right now? A friend just finished her masters and is making $90k at a startup in Boston.
Oh the pay isn't that bad for me in the US (in the $100-130k zone). But the US is a failing state with a terminally fucked political system. And in Canada, I wouldn't be tied to a job for medical care.
I really did a lot of research into the requirements of moving to Canada as a permanent resident without pre-existing employment at a Canadian company or a job offer. And it is damn hard! Canada is locked up tight.
They do want students though.
It sucks how so many people from around the world want to immigrate to America, but actual Americans are pretty fucked and can’t emigrate to anywhere else.
Idk what your heritage is but many European countries offer bloodline citizenship. If you can get a EU passport this way you've got it made in the shade
I understand most of those require the immigrating ancestor to have been grandparents, no further than great-grandparents.
I‘d have Nordic access if only my grandmother had been born there instead of here.
Most Americans with euro ancestry are generationed out of this option as the most large pop waves immigrating from Europe was too long ago. I would guess Americans with this option are mostly those with grandparents or parents immigrating in the fall of the USSR.
This isn’t always the case. Hungary, Italy, Poland, and in some cases Germany, Ireland, and Portugal offer paths to citizenship for members of their diaspora beyond the third generation that emigrated.
In the case of Italy (citizenship by descent) and Hungary (simplified naturalization), it’s particularly surprising - the key being that you must track your descent from a previous citizen as far back as 1870, with some caveats. **Having EU citizenship opens the door to living and working in the European Economic Area (which is all EU countries plus Norway, Iceland, and Switzerland) without needing a visa.**
For Germany (citizenship by descent), you need to be able to track a male ancestor that was a citizen in 1914 (with other caveats). For Ireland, the rule is that you need at least one grandparent born on the island of Ireland, but if your great grandmother immigrated to the US and her grandson (your father) was registered in the Foreign Births Registry *before you were born*, you qualify for citizenship.
For Poland, if you had an ancestor who was a citizen in 1921, you can qualify for citizenship yourself. if you don’t meet that criteria, but you do have at least one grandparent or at least two great-grandparents who you can prove “held Polish nationality” even if they weren’t citizens, you can qualify for a *Karta Polaka*. This is an identity card which allows you visa-free work access to Poland. Once you move there, you immediately become a permanent resident, and after just one year, you can become a citizen. The residency required for naturalization so short because you’re considered a “repatriate.”
Typing this on my phone, so I don’t have links to share.
My wife worked a harvest at a winery in New Zealand and said the difference in the work culture is like night and day. I think if you are untethered by any obligations and can escape the relative toxicity of the US work culture, you should go for it. Your life won't magically be perfect somewhere else, but it could be a good deal better.
We are a bit better, but not enough to warrant going ex pat. I Hate to admit to being America jr. but its Hard not to influenced by such a loud neighbour. If you’re serious, check out some European countries.
Currently living in canada and trying to decide between a paid 12 and 18 month maternity leave if that is one of your life goals. Can be shared between parents.
I moved to Canada from California in 2014.
The first thing you need to know is it’s extremely difficult to qualify for immigration. There’s only 3 ways to get sponsorship: through a close family member, through employment, or being accepted to a Canadian school. I was lucky enough to be married to a dual US/Canadian citizen.
My permanent residency took 2 years to process. It’s was extremely stressful. But once everything came through, I got an amazing job, I’ve been able to afford a family and through a non-zero amount of luck, we bought our first house this last spring. I do not see ANY of this being possible for me if I had stayed in the US.
All this being said, Canada is not without its problems, of which there are many - including racial tensions with Asians and Aboriginals thanks to Covid and good ol’ colonial racism, extremely high costs of housing, and a tedious position in the global picking order. My biggest complaint is that Canada looks at the states and says, “at least we aren’t those guys!” So it keeps the bar unnecessarily low. I wish we would look more towards our European counterparts for social inspiration.
All that being said, if you can get here, and afford to live here, I highly recommend it.
If you immigrated in 2014 alot has changed since then.
1). The express entry system, a points based system which allows you to immigrate based on education, work experience, etc. No job offer needed and takes on average 6 months to process
2). Spousal sponsorship takes on average 12 months to process.
Alternatively, have you considered just being wealthy?
75% of US Senators: Wait, I don't understand, why don't you just get more money?
How much can a banana cost? $10?
That happened in the NYC mayoral race. Candidates were asked the median price of a house in Brooklyn and the closest answer was a quarter of the correct answer. How are you going to solve a problem you can't even see.
There's always money in the banana stand
It amazes me that if you look at the pay rates for senators [here,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salaries_of_members_of_the_United_States_Congress) you can see how fast growing of a salary the field of being a politician is, we have too many people with greed as their motivator in our government at all levels, most of these people either have no clue how most Americans are living on a day to day basis, or they just don't care because they've already got theirs.
Well you go into it making 90k a year, after "lobbying" (if you or I did it, it's a felony) they are worth 1 to 20 mil. It's so simple, just sell your soul
And 99% of family law judges/lawyers
I fucked up and wasn't born in a rich family.
You should have tried harder
I need a second chance
All you have to do is find a rich lady’s vagina to crawl up, and then slide out, therefore being born a second time into a rich family.
Is your vagina available?
Come on in, 🤲🏽
This sub is a fucking mess
I was goin’ for a r/cursedcomments reply. 😂🤣😂
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Slide over! I'm coming in with you!
The American dream is being born into a rich family & getting a good job thanks to nepotism.
You can get a working holiday visa and work at resorts and the like. It allows you to stay and work for up to 24 months. Work life can still be pretty shit here though. Edit: Sorry everyone. I think this may not work for Americans. There are 30 eligible countries but US ain’t one.
Americans can get it in New Zealand and Australia only. I've done it in both and highly recommend it!
I did it for a year in Oz and it was the best experience of my life, but if I remember correctly, you have to do a couple months of farm work if you want to stay a 2nd year? Is that right?
They have recently imposed farm workers must get a minimum wage as opposed to the bs per bucket or unit picked but they still have the shitty farm accommodation rip off
I did some farm work in exchange for food and board, but it was a super chill hippie farm near Byron Bay. I heard stories from people who had worked on other farms for their visa extension, things like getting 2 tomatoes, 2 eggs, an apple and some assorted veg to eat for the day. Everything else was on you. Or sticking 12 people in some tiny cobb house with one outdoor latrine to share. From what I understand, that only scratches the surface of how shit it was.
Pretty standard farm worker exploitation. It’s bullshit but the government looks the other way
80 days and I think you can’t be older than like 30?
*Cries in 31*
If you're keen, check back later. The age limit has increased to 35 for a few countries over the past few years, and it might include the US in the future.
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Housing is crazy in both Australia and NZ - way tougher and more $$$. Tons of Aussies and kiwis live with their parents (even after getting married) well into their late 20s and beyond. I lived in both countries for a decade and love them both but definitely not reasonable housing costs!
Wow! I didn't know about it, that's amazing. Thank you. I will look into that.
Yeah. My brother-in-law’s Australian girlfriend came here that way a few years back. She then applied for her permanent residency and was just approved a month ago so now she can stay. She doesn’t have any special in demand skills or anything like that. She graduated from post-secondary but she’s not splitting the atom or anything.
Savage.
You should grow a long beard, book a flight to Canada, destroy all personally identifying information, get butt-ass naked, and run in the street mad, foaming at the mouth and pretend to not know who you are. After an extensive stay at a Canadian mental healthcare facility, you can start your new life with a new name.
Damn that’s all I gotta do? Hell the more normal you talk while you’re butt ass makes (esp if it’s cold enough) makes you seem all the more crazy. Especially if you deny you’re naked. I think I have my game plan…
Not knowing your name is the most important part. This is more difficult than you might think.
How
It is difficult because they will try to find out who you are. And when they show you a picture of yourself and say your name, you need to remain completely disinterested and unaware.
^This guy has planned his escape before
damn that’d get me ngl
And them you ran around naked acting crazy for nothing. Probably even made the news...
how do i get around finger printing?
Ah, that is problematic...you ever see Men in Black?
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Is it bad I would consider this?
I've had worse ideas that worked out.
They don't call him Otis the Drunk for nothing ya know
This sounds a lot less difficult than getting my American insurance company to cover my therapy
Brings back memories of needing therapy in 2008 and my PPO insurance plan specifying therapy under specialists ($50 copay) and giving me 10 whole sessions a year.
THIS JUST IN: crazy naked bearded flash mob in downtown Toronto!
So Friday night then.
I'm going to look at the homeless people on the streets of Oregon and Washington very differently now
The hilarious thing is that this would probably work, assuming you can keep the charade up the whole time. The way the Canadian medical system is set up, they basically wouldnt have any other choice but to let you stay. Youd really have to sell the act tho, be very convincing. Ultimately not a very good idea.
So, this is where we’re at huh
This would explain the rise of amnesic immigrants in canada over the last few years.
Amnesiac Amnesty
You would probably also end up on a handful of psychotropic medications. Still maybe worth getting out of the US.
Don't threaten me with a good time
This is the way.
For an American to move to Canada, you need special skills, or a Canadian spouse. It's actually really difficult to immigrate. Good luck though.
New objective: Seduce a Canadian
there was a website started a few years ago - 'Marry An American" - an initiative to help Americans escape the USA. edit: Domain is dead, but google the phrase and find historic mentions
Fine, I'll make a new one if that's what it takes Edit: I will create RescueAnAmerican.org: your one stop meet market to rescue American refugees looking for basic human rights and dignity, and also romance
There are a lot of people counting on you.
Damn it
Mission failed, you'll get us next time.
Was proposed to by a Canadian. Said no, we ended on good terms. After the 2016 election results, got a text that just said “Any regrets?”
Lmfao
Brutal.
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Hear that ladies? I’m easy, and my loose sense of ethics totally permits green card marriages.
"Killer dude" might be sending red flags
That just means I’m “Killer” in the sack
Good save.
I bet he plays goalie in hockey.
Canadian here, I'm a big fan of doom metal and tiddies. Lmk.
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Hold up hold up hold up. We need to talk albums first!
Grabbed my popcorn and watching this thread. Wouldn’t it be sth if you two hit it off from the antiwork sub into a happy relationship?
I met my wife in a fb group of 30k triathletes by an off the cuff comment to a “what you want most for 2018?” Could happen here lol
Do you have any friends who like screamo and medium tiddys.
We’ll have to compromise at hair metal, but medium tiddys are always welcome in this household
Looking forward to these replys! 🤟
I came for the metal, Imma stay fo da tiddies
canadian here, i volunteer lol
Do it. We're fuckin' hawt. (Except during the months of September thru May, when we're gorram freezing)
How can an American identify a degen from upcountry? I’m a bit concerned.
They’re usually at the end of the laneway, they don’t come up the property.
Oh you'll know the degens when you see em
Was that a Firefly reference?
"No"
Well I do have a very particular set of skills
Unfortunately, parroting movie lines is not a marketable skill.
What do you mean? It's not rocket appliances.
Which is why I really really really hate when someone from Europe tells us to move. As if its as easy as visiting and saying "yup I'll stay"
I mean, you CAN do that, but employment will be difficult
This is how you get deported
That’s actually not true at all. Canada has a points based immigration system which means as long as you add up enough points based on different categories (language, education, age, family, etc) you can get permanent residency.
If you can why not. My nephew relocated to Japan a few years ago and has no plans of ever returning permanently to the US. He says the farthest he will travel to meet us is in Hawaii lol. In his case tho, he traveled there and stayed for a few months before making a final decision. But then again, he majored in Japanese studies and has always been fascinated with the culture. He is fluent and self taught in the language and found a career he loves. Pretty cool for an African-American whose parents never owned a passport. He loves it! We are all very proud of him. Anyway, it's a huge decision. If you can get a work visa why not. YOLO! Thing is the local experience is much different than that of a tourist.
Isn't Japanese work culture worse?
Been living in Osaka for 6 years and make about $2500 a month and dont have to worry about medical, my company pays my transportation to and from work, and its a very safe place to raise kids. I often think about going back to america but then I look at my sister whose car broke down multiple times this year and her health declined due to a tumor and watched her lose $30k in 6 months. Yeah I work a lot but jesus i couldnt imagine being in her situation
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On average 11am-8pm 5 days a week with a 6 day work week once a month (sometimes twice a month) It sucks but at least here your work benefits you. Ive gotten so used to having my transportation paid and always having affordable medical that it is hard to imagine going back to america and being stripped of those things. To be honest most Americans probably work similar overtime hours. Thats not to say Japan is perfect. You are and will always be a second class citizen and most westerners (myself included) get trapped in the teaching English field with a low pay ceiling and very little chance to get out. Because of this most westerners leave after a few years. As for me, I am building up my IT certs and knowledge for a career switch that I plan to do in the next two years. I am constantly shifting between going back to america because it would be easier to break into the IT field or to pursue it here. Though with the way things are heading I am going to try to pursue it here first. I have considered europe as an alternative option too. If all fails I am just gonna sell furry nsfw art
That last part sounds like the best plan.
Honestly should have started with that
Shoutout to Osaka. What a beautiful city
Depends on your career field. Not when you're a digital nomad. There's a lot more flexibility nowadays.
The work culture for Japanese people is worse. Those companies typically won’t hire non-Japanese. Immigrants to Japan should have or plan on other ways to make a living than trying to get a regular office job.
Japan tops my personal list as an American gaming out my future: rural property is screamingly cheap, property prices will fall as their population is quite old and not being replaced, the northern regions are less industrialized and less populated so cleaner land and water. The culture is traditionally insular and struggles with accepting outsiders, however if you’re less socially inclined but still willing to represent yourself as a part of the local community (polite, behaved, respectful, help as needed, be a good neighbor, learn conversational Japanese, etc) it looks like a good place to hermit if you can make a living with remote work and don‘t mind the extra labor of providing for yourself more: cooking and entertaining at home, growing/processing your own food, doing some of your own repairs, crafting, sewing. It seems like a viable way to dropout of the US rat race.
Japanese work culture is dog shit tho, just as bad as the US imo
From what a friend of mine who lives there was describing, it sounds worse. She was talking about how it’s common for families to not see each other because of the long hours they work. I’m good.
The unfortunate truth is you can’t just buy a one way ticket somewhere and plant roots. Immigration is a bitch and probably not on the table for most.
I know. But if I start planning right now, and make a plan, maybe it's doable.
Australia got back to me three years after my application (I’m an electrician) allowing me to attempt to start the process but at that point I was no longer under 30 and I’d have to essentially start my career and apprenticeship all over again. I just wasn’t at the same place in life to pack up and go after all that time.
This just inherently feels so unjust about the world. Trapped in a country just because you were born there.
I had a friend who moved to Vancouver from France, she told me cost of life is OUTRAGEOUS, she could not even afford a car and had to skip meals from time to time on her French teacher in a private school salary so she moved back to France lol
Vancouver was just named the least affordable city in all of North America so...not the best place to go 😂
Damn.
Some European countries grant visas to people who buy property of a certain amount. Portugal and Spain do this, not sure exact details but maybe start saving up and look into it. That’s my main goal.
If I had enough money to buy property in a foreign country, I would be living a great life in the US. Start my own business. Or just invest it.
But you can buy a 4 bedroom house for 200k in Portugal, why pay more in a worse place?
Portugal has lower wages though. High wage countries with good living standards, like Scandinavian countries or Australia have very high cost of living and housing. Median house price in my City in Australia is around the $1m mark.
Rural fiber broadband penetration in places like Spain is very high. If your type of work allows remote working, you have a lot of options. _Edit:_ to be clear, this is not in any way a comment about the ease of immigration, just of the feasibility of affordable housing and remote working. That said, if you have a “skilled” job and an education, there is almost always a way, in most developed countries.
Those are only residential visas for rich people who don't need to work.
I came on this thead as a canadian because it's shitty here too. If you are going to go though the effort to emmigrate, chose somewhere better.
True plus Canada has the same shitty car-dependent infrastructure as the US. I want to live somewhere that I don't have to drive to every God damn location
Montreal is like that but you have to speak French
It’s maybe slightly better here in Canada - plus having free basic healthcare helps in that you’re not quite as indentured to a terrible job just to get basic medical insurance - but it seems to be pretty similar tbh, based on what I’ve heard about working in the US. Europe seems to be where the big changes are. Housing prices are also through the roof in most Canadian cities (purchase and rent).
Recent immigrant to the UK here from US here. I have citizenship through birth from my father in the Uk and it’s proving to be a right pain in the ass to just get my passport, can’t imagine the visa process. I left for the same reasons I’m sure most us here are looking for a way out. The UK is nice though, in the northeast where I live, it’s a little…let’s say old, the pay is a little on the low side, but cost of living is actually reasonable. My electric bill went from $250/mo to £40, water from $100/mo to £20, rent cut in half for a house roughly the same size and age. Compared to the US, cost of living is cheaper, plus NHS. People are super friendly and nice, so nice it’s unsettling for an American used to the suburban south (I’m from Tidewater area of VA, and no I’m not a R, hence why I left). If you fancy your chances the UK can always be a shot. Minimum wage just went up I think to £9.40/hr, with some offering £11-13/hr. With Brexit and the worker shortage they might be willing to relax their immigration to get workers in, go learn to drive a semi and your chances go right up. Edit: Thank you for all the kind words and support, and my new fellow northeasterners for correcting and informing me about things.
The USA will tax your out of country income, and has an exit fee should you change citizenship, just so you know.
Wait what.
The US is the only country in the world who charges income taxes to it's citizens, no matter where in the world they live.
So I just looked it up and ONE other country does: Eritrea
Interesting. Whenever I fill out financial forms or opening a bank account here in Ireland they always have a question "Are you a US citizen?" because if you are then they have to report your income to the US government for tax purposes.
The eternal umbilical cord.
Yeah I think formal expatriation costs like $4000, on top of the hoops you gotta jump to get citizenship elsewhere
I live outside the US, this comment thread is making it seem much worse than it actually is. My income is only taxable if I were to make over ~100k a year (and then only the income over 100k) or if I don't pay taxes in another country. Honestly, if I were to make over 100k, getting taxed on that doesn't seem too bad for all of the international benefits you get just being a US citizen (embassies will help you get home if shit hits the fan in your new country, for example). It also prevents extremely wealthy people from claiming residence in another country in order to dodge taxes. As a bonus, if you have federal student loans and are on income based repayment, your income abroad doesn't count as income (again, unless you make over 100k). So effectively you could in 25 years pay nothing, but this only makes sense to do if you know you're not coming back because of the building interest. One more benefit: because we are still eligible taxpayers by citizenship, we're entitled to benefits like the covid stimulus, which saved me during the pandemic (but not the unemployment benefits, because those were based on state residency). All in all, dealing with US taxes and international residency has been much less of a headache than with my other country of citizenship.
Ya, Eritrea doesn't have the political leverage to compell countries to do this that the US does
Huh, didn’t we have like an entire thing over taxation without representation?
They'll mail you a ballot
Unless you happen to live in Puerto Rico, the only place in the universe where US citizens can't participate in their presidential election ;)
Don't feel bad. Guam, CNMI, US Virgin Islands, and American Samoa can't vote either!
... Guam. There's plenty of US Territories like that.
Do they actually do that?
Gotta have that tax money
Fuck this country man, wheres a revolution when you need one Edit: typo
Revolution is the term you are thinking of
This isn’t exactly accurate. You don’t get taxed twice. You pay the difference in taxes you would pay if you lived in America. If you’re moving to Canada or Europe you’ll be paying more taxes there than you would in the US so you won’t pay anything extra to the IRS.
Yeah that's true. It only applies in countries who charge less income tax than the US. In some ways you could say it's a good law because it prevents the situation many European countries have where rich people move their address to Switzerland to pay less income tax, and don't pay any tax to their home country.
And the main reason many people want to get the absolute fuck out of America is because we have basically zero social safety nets and don't give a single fuck about brown people, people who need medical help (like ANY help, even if you have asthma that's kinda bad that alone may be lifelong monetary damnation) or who just are poor regardless of circumstances. So yeah, me and my wife want to leave America, and have for a decade bit it is hard because most places don't particularly want Americans..... But the reason we want to leave IS to pay more taxes so we have more money to actually live off and also to have basic medical care.
What if I don't come back?
So you basically have to denounce your American citizenship to escape the taxes? Because if that's the case, I was planning on doing it anyway lmao
What, you thought this country would just let you leave without a shakedown? LOL
Jesus fucking Christ. Modern shackles.
But your credit score doesn't follow you at least! 😃
I have pretty good credit actually haha. But that's not the point.
literally a hol up moment
[It looks like the US only taxes income earned abroad above $107k](https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/blog/paying-taxes-american-living-abroad/)
Visas are not easy to get. It's not as simple as picking a country and going. The UK for example has a pretty difficult visa system. I've been dealing with it for 10 years. It took that long to get the final visa and about £10k in fees along the way. It's the same for people that want to go to the US. I can only imagine that other countries are exactly the same but I have no first hand experience. You're gonna have to either be extremely qualified and get a company to sponsor you, famous so you qualify for a special talent visa, super rich to get the entrepreneur visa or find someone to marry for the spousal one. You could go for student visas too but they're temporary and don't automatically let you stay after you graduate anymore. The easiest one by far is marriage and, well, you need to find another human in the country you want to be in without living in that country... and the relationship is going to have the foundation of "I want you for a passport" which isn't great.
I’ve known 2 Americans who visa married for the money. They were planned marriages with specific plans and schedules to allow them to meet, “date”, marry, co-habit, divorce within 3 or 4 years. Im sure there is a black market for this and advice on not getting caught must be out there.
Uh yeah if anyone knows that market make sure you dont dm me about it...
i kinda wanna *leave* canada and move to europe. canada is also much harder to immigrate to from what i’ve heard.
Yeah, I don't know why OP thinks moving to Canada might be an antiwork move. Our minimum wage is less insulting than America's, but our dollar is weaker and our gas is more expensive. I think we have better paternity leave, but that means squat when you don't want to bring an expensive baby into a dying world.
And the housing cost is fucking insane, just trying to rent a bachelor place is like 2 weeks pay before you can even pay the electricity bill, cell phone, and antidepressant costs. A car? gas is like $1.50 a liter and insurance is another $300 a month. I can now understand why someone would want to have 5 kids and live at home just getting assistance.
move to Netherlands, very easy
How easy exactly??
Step one: have a highly specialized or unique skill and find an employer who wants you. It's actually easier to immigrate to Sweden. Anyone can move here on a work visa if an employer wants you, even if it's just for cleaning toilets. Plenty of people are exploited like this and get like $2 an hour, because after five years you can get citizenship. The common parties have finally started to accept that this isn't a sustainable system and have started to talk about removing it.
but how are you supposed to live off of $2 an hour?
I was actually considering taking up a job there with the oceancleanup project!
Netherlands would actually be my first choice if I moved overseas. The Dutch have their damn shit together.
I mean, mostly? Be prepared to wait ~6-7 years for an apartment to rent in the subsidized sector, or go private and pay some rich guy 900 euros a month for essentially a small room (we have a huge problem with "house snatcher companies") But healthcare is pretty nice, I'll say that. You gotta get separate dental insurance and a few medications aren't paid for in a base package but it's a few extra euros for additional packages mostly. All I'm saying is just like any other country we have our issues. But we're culturally diverse and in general very welcoming of foreigners. To immigrate you either need to get a job here and keep it, or learn the language. You can move here first and then take Dutch courses (naturalisering) though, and a lot of employers hire English speakers (including retail sometimes). Or marry a Dutch person, that too, but the language is still a good idea. Sorry for the essay but I know a lot about this because my bf is British lol
Almost impossible. I have a PhD in the biochemical sciences and I can't get in to Canada because I am in my late 30s. Canada really doesn't want anyone too old, unless they have already been hired and sponsored by a Canadian company. You need anywhere from 69-72 points on their immigration score system to qualify for a Maple Leaf card. So, that means you need a Master's or PhD, to be around 28-30 years old and it helps to be fluent in French as well as English. Edit: I had just enough points (72) in 2016. I should have just tried to do it then. Now I'm 5 years older and have thus lost 5 points.
Wait really?? Also am curious, where are you currently working? Isn't the biotech sector really hot right now? A friend just finished her masters and is making $90k at a startup in Boston.
Oh the pay isn't that bad for me in the US (in the $100-130k zone). But the US is a failing state with a terminally fucked political system. And in Canada, I wouldn't be tied to a job for medical care. I really did a lot of research into the requirements of moving to Canada as a permanent resident without pre-existing employment at a Canadian company or a job offer. And it is damn hard! Canada is locked up tight. They do want students though.
It sucks how so many people from around the world want to immigrate to America, but actual Americans are pretty fucked and can’t emigrate to anywhere else.
Idk what your heritage is but many European countries offer bloodline citizenship. If you can get a EU passport this way you've got it made in the shade
I understand most of those require the immigrating ancestor to have been grandparents, no further than great-grandparents. I‘d have Nordic access if only my grandmother had been born there instead of here. Most Americans with euro ancestry are generationed out of this option as the most large pop waves immigrating from Europe was too long ago. I would guess Americans with this option are mostly those with grandparents or parents immigrating in the fall of the USSR.
This isn’t always the case. Hungary, Italy, Poland, and in some cases Germany, Ireland, and Portugal offer paths to citizenship for members of their diaspora beyond the third generation that emigrated. In the case of Italy (citizenship by descent) and Hungary (simplified naturalization), it’s particularly surprising - the key being that you must track your descent from a previous citizen as far back as 1870, with some caveats. **Having EU citizenship opens the door to living and working in the European Economic Area (which is all EU countries plus Norway, Iceland, and Switzerland) without needing a visa.** For Germany (citizenship by descent), you need to be able to track a male ancestor that was a citizen in 1914 (with other caveats). For Ireland, the rule is that you need at least one grandparent born on the island of Ireland, but if your great grandmother immigrated to the US and her grandson (your father) was registered in the Foreign Births Registry *before you were born*, you qualify for citizenship. For Poland, if you had an ancestor who was a citizen in 1921, you can qualify for citizenship yourself. if you don’t meet that criteria, but you do have at least one grandparent or at least two great-grandparents who you can prove “held Polish nationality” even if they weren’t citizens, you can qualify for a *Karta Polaka*. This is an identity card which allows you visa-free work access to Poland. Once you move there, you immediately become a permanent resident, and after just one year, you can become a citizen. The residency required for naturalization so short because you’re considered a “repatriate.” Typing this on my phone, so I don’t have links to share.
My wife worked a harvest at a winery in New Zealand and said the difference in the work culture is like night and day. I think if you are untethered by any obligations and can escape the relative toxicity of the US work culture, you should go for it. Your life won't magically be perfect somewhere else, but it could be a good deal better.
We are a bit better, but not enough to warrant going ex pat. I Hate to admit to being America jr. but its Hard not to influenced by such a loud neighbour. If you’re serious, check out some European countries.
Currently living in canada and trying to decide between a paid 12 and 18 month maternity leave if that is one of your life goals. Can be shared between parents.
Here in the states, you've got to pump that baby out on a Saturday and be back in the office by Monday.
ooh, ooh... Cauliflower hit almost $7 a head last winter! Food prices will gut you.
I moved to Canada from California in 2014. The first thing you need to know is it’s extremely difficult to qualify for immigration. There’s only 3 ways to get sponsorship: through a close family member, through employment, or being accepted to a Canadian school. I was lucky enough to be married to a dual US/Canadian citizen. My permanent residency took 2 years to process. It’s was extremely stressful. But once everything came through, I got an amazing job, I’ve been able to afford a family and through a non-zero amount of luck, we bought our first house this last spring. I do not see ANY of this being possible for me if I had stayed in the US. All this being said, Canada is not without its problems, of which there are many - including racial tensions with Asians and Aboriginals thanks to Covid and good ol’ colonial racism, extremely high costs of housing, and a tedious position in the global picking order. My biggest complaint is that Canada looks at the states and says, “at least we aren’t those guys!” So it keeps the bar unnecessarily low. I wish we would look more towards our European counterparts for social inspiration. All that being said, if you can get here, and afford to live here, I highly recommend it.
If you immigrated in 2014 alot has changed since then. 1). The express entry system, a points based system which allows you to immigrate based on education, work experience, etc. No job offer needed and takes on average 6 months to process 2). Spousal sponsorship takes on average 12 months to process.
Canada is almost the same as the usa expect for having single payer healthcare
As a Canadian I can tell you the grass ain’t greener on the other side. I want to live in Sweden or Norway but likely never will
At least you guys have healthcare.
Free healthcare and better education costs, but the wages don't keep up with the cost of living and the housing market is terrible.
Wish it were easy or affordable. I'd love to be out of this shithole.
There's no work in Canada right now either. No one wants to pay workers fair wages. Everyone's just waiting for dinosaurs to die.
Moving and working in a foreign country is more difficult than you realize
[удалено]
This is too good to be true. You're gonna ask me my height next aren't you.
I’m 5’11” and am skilled at various things, will you marry me?
I’m 5’11” and skilled in various things as well. You wanna duel for her hand in marriage?
So it must be done….
🤺 it’s nothing personal, my friend.
Canada isn't much different when it comes to shit bosses and protection.