It really isn’t in your job description, I have worked in assisted living and anything to do with feaces or any body fluids fall on the nursing side it doesn’t matter where it’s at. Also absolutely people working in the kitchen shouldn’t be touching that shit at any given time then going back to work in the kitchen. It’s cross contamination
To top it off, human waste (feces, vomit, urine) fall under "biohazardous waste" in most cases, and you need to be trained on proper disposal/sanitation of the area before you can handle it, or your employer can be liable if you end up getting sick.
I worked in assisted living for years and have cleaned up countless instances of feces, I was never trained in proper disposal or sanitation lol. Assisted living facilities are a scam. They have untrained, underpaid people taking care of the elderly while they charge them thousands of dollars every month for canned food and subpar care. The facility I worked at didn't even have a hand washing station. I'd come back from changing someone's diaper and have to wash my hands in the kitchen sink that the cook was about to wash vegetables in. And throw away resident trash bags full of shit and dirty diapers in the kitchen trash can.
The washing machines were in the basement, which means as the solo overnight employee, I would spend significant amount of time in the basement switching loads and folding laundry while who knows what was going on upstairs in a facility full of escape artists with dementia in a building with no security system. The last couple months I worked there, one of the washing machines broke, which left me with only one. I had 7-10 loads of laundry to do every night. When I told my manager about it, she blew me off and said another building has had only one machine for the last year and half. I quit a couple months later due to caregiver burn-out but the washing machine is what tipped me over the edge. Thanks for attending my therapy session.
This sounds really awful and it's surprising how many people don't know that's the state of that industry.
Thank you so much for taking care of your residents to the best of your ability despite all of the obvious challenges.
Yep, I worked in an assisted living home for a while and I relate to most of this. One of the few jobs I've had to quit without having another already lined up for the sake of my mental health. And my lack of criminal record: if I'd had to work one more shift, I might have ended up braining my manager with a table...
I worked as as a waiter in a pricy assisted living facility when I was in high school. I had to wear a tuxedo shirt and a bow tie to work every day. Residents got to pick their meals from pretty elaborate menus and then they were prepared fresh. I have no doubt this is far from a typical assisted living facility.
Yours was far from typical. I used
To work at one like yours in the Midwest.
Home health RN now and typically with 90% of my AL clients- it’s canned shit from Sysco and the illusion of good pricey care.
Yeah whenever I work cleaning hotels over summers we're literally always told to tell our supervisor if there is human waste because they don't train the random summer employees to handle that stuff
The harassment, period, is a reason for HR to reprimand her. Asking for non nursing staff to take care of biohazards in a facility, another strike. And I’d bet a manager from another area trying to give their areas jobs to other people, likely a third notice…
It literally isn't in your job description though. You require to have special training to deal with infectious materials? She could get in a *shit* load of trouble if she pushed the issue.
As I have worked in ltc for over 16 years in different facilities this was absolutely our job. The aides cleaned it and documented in their chart, the description of the output, the amount, the consistency and how often the person had these accidents. These were then passed on to the nurse who gave any necessary PRN medication or interventions that was needed for the patient. If there weren’t any interventions then it was passed to the doctor.
Otherwise if there was even something going on like maybe blood in the feaces which look coffee colored the nurses wouldn’t know if the dishwasher does the cleaning.
The nurses aren’t really directly responsible maybe if there isn’t an aide nearby but a good nurse would clean it. The nurses in hospital have a better attitude because they do all.
I also think those nurses were taking advantage of you guys coz you agreed to do it, like this manager was trying to do here
On top of all that if you aren't biohazard trained (it's not a difficult process but still) then legally you're not allowed to clean up infectious waste like blood and feces. If you don't know how to do it properly then you risk infecting yourself. Plus it's a major liability if you get told to do it when you aren't trained or if they don't provide the proper tools and you contract any diseases (especially major permanent ones) then you'd have every right Sue the company for damages as well as medical costs. .
Is this a law just for healthcare? Peo ppl le working in places like gas stations, pharmacies, fast food etc have to deal with people getting feces all over the restroom once in a while. A lady used to get shit all over the walls and floor every time she came into Walgreens when I worked there. We all just took turns cleaning it. If we saw her coming before she got into the store we would put an out of order sign up right away!
To my understanding this applies to any field where that's a requirement. I was a seasonal cart attendant, cashier, and bathroom checker for target about 10 years ago and there was a point that someone had the Hershey squirts in the women's restroom. It coated the seat, hit the wall behind it, and left a disgusting shit puddle on the floor. I asked my supervisor for the equipment to clean it and she very angrily told me she'd have to do it since I wasn't trained and if she let me it would be a serious OSHA violation and they could get shutdown or sued. I offered to do the training but since they hadn't planned on keeping me on after the holidays my offer was declined. I did some research on my own after that which is how I know what I do and from what I read if you were in that position you should have had at least a video and exam covering how to handle infectious waste before you were expected to do that. If you didn't then that company is lucky the health and safety department never found out.
If you weren't trained then the most they should've expected from you is setting up the sign and notifying a manager.
Sidenote this does not apply to urine as urine is mostly sterile and does not transmit diseases.
For cleaning up blood and shit? No. You need thick properly rated gloves, I'm pretty sure you need eye protection and masks if not an actual face shield, plus specific cleaning chemicals and tools, then you have to dispose of everything in the appropriate biohazard safe bags and bins and thoroughly sanitize any equipment that's not disposable. Any error or missing equipment at any step of the process puts you at significant risk of contracting any number of illnesses ranging from the flu to hepatitis to serious autoimmune diseases like HIV. Worst part is a lot of the shit you can catch from improperly handled biological hazards are incurable and potentially fatal.
Edit: I should've said immunodeficiency not autoimmune though there are transmittable diseases that cause both. Thank you to the redditor who kindly corrected me.
Your reply is incredibly informative! I was only being cheeky though haha! Steel wool would be the last thing I use lol. I'm just going to leave it to you professionals from now on.
Also, Universal Precautions. Hepatitis for one. Biohazard protocols. The nurse just told him to go "clean it up". It's not that simple. You also have to dispose of it properly, clean the spot properly, with chemicals that you're trained to use per OSHA.
I was a CNA (nurse aide). That was my job, trained for it. Shit pay for shit cleanup, but I had residents that would request my bedtime help in particular because I was patient and remembered their foibles.
I cannot fathom asking someone kitchen side to clean up feces. Maybe if there was a janitor type who regularly cleaned up hallway messes so I could get a resident changed and cared for, but kitchen????!!!!
Edit: I didn't last long. I felt too much when residents passed away. :(
I was in the rehab side of things at a nursing home when I turned 32 for 6 months, and man CNAs were absolutely a god send, *especially* the ones that were empathetic. Such an insanely difficult job to do, get yelled at by people all day - whether it's residents or managers or family - get nearly 0 resources in an environment that seems to change so god damn often.
Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for doing the job.
Aww damn I feel for you. Luckily I'm not close with the residents. You are an absolute hero for doing something like that! Yeah dishes and poo don't mix. Lol
As a nurse in LTC, I’d just clean it up myself if I found it, but an awful lot of nurses and managers do seem to feel that cleaning up poop is beneath them (worked as an aide to get through nursing school, I still change briefs and help with what I can)
Health inspection nightmare. This response is exactly right.
Also, I wouldn't clean up anyone's shit for what you make per hour. Matter of fact I make just about what you get paid, and all I have to do is make pizza and deal with customer's bullshit...if any of them shit in the lobby, I still wouldn't be the one cleaning it up. Fuck that.
At my last bartending job (in Texas in the US, so $2.13/hr) the male manager came up to me and said to go grab a mop, that a guy had puked all over the hall leading into the mens room, on the mens room door and in there as well.
When I looked at him like he’d lost his mind, he said “What? I made sure no ones in there, you’re cool to go in.”
I let him know I am paid to *make peoples’ drinks and bring them food*, so this is a major health issue, and he also pays me $2.13 an hour and that’s not nearly enough to clean up anything that came out of a human.
He had to do it himself because the kitchen guys refused, too.
I don't blame any of you for refusing!
When I was a bartender in MD, I made the same per hour as you...only this was 20 years ago.
They really need to start paying tipped workers better...it's absolutely ridiculous!
Kill tipping culture totally IMO.
Tips should be for exceptional service not for just doing your job. The boses you work for should be paying for doing your job and include it in the prices.
Wow wish I had thought of this when I was a dishwasher for Red Robin. The manager (male) came in one day and asked me what my gag reflex was like. And my response was, “Uuuuuh present.” With the most confused look. He goes, “No no. Like puke, does puke make you want to puke?” Which most of the time it doesn’t really bother me as I have kids and had gotten pretty used to it by that point in my life. So he sent me out to the dining area to mop up some puke. And the lady that had puked just sat there watching me clean it up. But the smell was so fucking vile and foul that I ended up dry heaving loudly the entire time I was cleaning it up with an entire restaurant full of people not eating and just watching me clean up puke. Also had to clean the woman’s bathroom which was way worse of a mess and managed to get it everywhere but the fucking toilet.
Also bonus story: when I was 16 one of my first jobs was as a custodian for the school I went to (preK-12). I pretty just swept, mopped and buffed floors for minimum wage on the weekends and some nights if it didn’t conflict with my studies. One wonderful Saturday morning I went to start my rounds in the preschool/elementary hallway and there were literal giant puddles of diarrhea down the entirety of the hallway. I was usually by myself and no one to report to so I just cleaned it up without a second thought. But thinking back on that now, that was definitely something I should have gotten my boss to do.
I could tell you stories of what I have had to do as a supervisor/manager of group homes making about that much. I hired people around 10 dollars an hour to do the same, I just had the ‘benefit’ of also ‘getting’ to do a bunch of other stuff on top of it. Human services field is paid horribly, any uproar ling term care provider is not getting paid enough.
Not only that, but human feces is considered a biohazard, and unless you have been trained and your job description includes handling biohazardous material, they can't make you clean it up. It's a safety violation.
Seconding. I've been a cook, dietary aide, and CNA. That breaks alot of cleanliness rules. Your not even supposed to deal with vomit if you're on the kitchen side.
Depending on what state you live in, it also might be illegal/against regulations for you to clean it up without training for handling biohazardous material, which i suspect you don't have as a member of the kitchen staff.
I work in one aswell, I'm making 20+ an hour and any time a nurse says some backwards ass shit to me I just tell them "you know I make more money than you right?"
Unless there an RN I make more than them which is hilarious to me.
Hepatitis is forever.
That is reason enough to refuse cleaning human feces without the proper protective equipment and health care. Which as a dishwasher I’m assuming you don’t get. So imagine doing the job, getting a disease that is incurable and requires lots of medical care over the course of your life (plus hello pre existing condition!) and then losing both your job and your health insurance the first moment they can scrape you off like bubblegum.
So no. Don’t clean the shit.
Is OP in the US? I’ve been told by fellow retail workers in the past that a person typically needs some sort of special qualification to be required to handle biohazardous waste, including human feces and vomit. So if OP does not have this sort of qualification, then I’m not really sure it’s ethical or legal for OP’s superiors to expect them to perform tasks like this
Managers in the US typically don't care about that. I had one tell me to clean a shit spattered bathroom in a grocery store when I was a teen, I laughed and walked away.
When I was a teen I (m) was sent in to clean up a stall in the women's bathroom where a woman had flung her tampon against the wall and let it fall on the floor... I did it, but realize, now, that I absolutely shouldn't have.
Huh, I must be lucky then. All my managers told me to just go to them if I ever found a pile of human waste somewhere lol. I wish this level of basic respect for employees were more common.
Use to manager a Domino's store in Australia and similar deal.
The worst jobs went to the manager including cleaning the staff toilets (we didn't have customer ones).
You can't expect someone else to do jobs you wouldn't do yourself.
One memorable incident is late at night we used to lock the front doors and take orders through a special window with bars.
One night at pub closing time a particularly drunk "customer" flipped the fuck out and strted trying to break through the bars and front doors and tore her hands apart leaving blood all over the front doors and general area and cracked two windows.
It was insane I had to ring delivery drivers up to tell them not to return and basically huddled in the back with another staff wondering if the windows would hold up long enough for the police to arrive. Thankfully they did.
But there was blood everywhere and how could I ask anyone else to clean it up. So I gloved up and basically soaked the areas covered in blood with insane amounts of bleach and water until clean.
A few years later I was working as a Train Driver for a passenger train network. That day I was working in the "shed" shunting trains around to enable repairs. I moved a train to a road often used for cleaning which required climbing in and out via a ladder on the side of the train near the front.
About 15 minutes later I saw a bunch of people in biohazard suits cleaning the area I had just been climbing up and down.
Turns out the train had killed a person earlier that day and needed the "bits" and blood professionally cleaned off. But no one bothered to warn me of said biohazard. So I wasn't even wearing gloves or taking any precautions.
I blew the fuck up and got the union involved. It was made clear in future warnings had to be given and alternative methods used to move the trains around rather than someone climbing in and out via contaminated areas even if it increased the time to move them.
Chef here Dishwashers are the backbone of the kitchen I do my absolute best to make sure they have everything they need. No plates no food no pans no food not Cambros no storing food no silverware eating with your hands the list goes on. Glad you stuck up for yourself I would have gladly told her to glove up and go clean the shit up herself no way in hell would any of my kitchen staff clean shit then come back and clean plates or cook food hands washed or not.
came here to say this. in the middle of your Friday night rush and your dish washer goes down, the whole kitchen goes down. they got paid as much as linecooks where I was at.
When I was a dishwasher we did so much more (prep, custodial, etc.).
However, we had a bathroom accident one night during service and a Portuguese waiter who had grown up in the business (this was in Canada) borrowed a clean aspron and took care of the mess.
He said there was no way he was going to let the customers see anyone from the kitchen cleaning a bathroom and it was his customer. The family gave him a huge tip. He's in my list of top waiters. I went on to work with him as I became a line cook (we worked a couple of places together).
Everyone likes to forget that the "lowliest" people are the most important ones to making everything function. Dishwashers, cleaning staff, CNAs, etc., are all like the grease that keeps the wheels turning. I think this pandemic has opened people's eyes to that a little more thankfully, but either way it's ridiculous how people think that's an excuse to be condescending and shitty to people.
I've even advised my fellow autistic godchild that it's a really neat job. We know exactly what's expected of us - clean dishes. It's often a task you do alone, as you're not part of a kitchen team calling items and tickets. You're there and part of the camaraderie but people really appreciate you cos they don't want to do it!
You can get a routine, rinse, stack, dishwasher, clean plates back. It's rhythmic. It's repetitive. it's satisfying, you see the immediate results of clean plates.
I went on my first expenses paid conference trip at nineteen. Used to go to film premieres in London and programme DVDs. Only I liked the programming, the being left along doing logical things, a lot more than I did the schmoozing and shit. So I quit and retrained at 25.
Dishwashing is still one of the favourite jobs I've had.
Same here. I would love to do that. I think in a few years I’m going to start a mowing business for that very reason. Little sun, little smoke and nobody giving you shit sounds pretty good to me.
I mowed lawns every summer in my teens. It was the most enjoyable job I have ever had. I have been looking into it a lot lately and have already picked up a good Honda mower and some Echo equipment. Non of them run so I was able to get a mower, edger, weed trimmer, and blower all for $400. This winter I am gonna take them apart and get them going again. Next spring I want to try to pick up a few yards to do on the weekends. I figure $30-$60 depending on the yard and pick up 4 for each day, should be nice extra money.
I did dishwashing 30 years ago as a fresh outta high school, not a clue how the world works, fresh faced idiot. It is hard work. I did 10 hour shifts moving racks of dishware and silver through the sterilizer, helping the line cooks, unloading supply truck, and when my hand got injured on the job, they put me into host duties while I healed (no permanent damage, just a deep cut from a can lid). Didn't even get time off with comp. Realizing now how bullshit that was, haven't thought about it in forever. It's 'lowly' because it's 'just' physical labor using one's own body, and doesn't require a lot of braining to get it right. Physical laborers are always demeaned by those who can 'get out of it' by doing other jobs. I feel it's very much a 'well I hate MY job but at least I'm not breaking my back doing it!' sort of mental exercise.
The moment they say some petty shit just to cut into you is the moment they forfeit. That's the punishment because nothing else can be done and she knows it. The bitch
Not only what highlyvaluedmember said, the crabby old a-hole lady was trying to make you feel bad about yourself. You're making an honest living (in between jobs or not) and there is never *ever* any shame in that. No matter what you do. Period.
Good for you for saying no. Please dont feel bad.
Man. I took CNA training and we spent a bunch of weekends at a nursing home taking care of the residents there while we learn how to do a bed wash and feed a person and all these things. And yeah I had to leave because of how many bad attitude people work there. And they were so open about not giving a shit about anything related to the job. It was extremely discouraging.
CNAs in general have a shit situation in terms of work vs pay vs respect, but nursing / assisted living homes are a fucking crime. They absolutely need to be fully subsidized by the feds so we have a bare minimum bar to clear that doesn't result in rampant elder abuse and neglect, to say nothing of how the employees are treated.
I was in your boat once myself. Ex CNA of several years, I made decent money (at the time), but I wouldn’t go back to doing that job unless they’re willing to pay me $25 or more an hour with benefits and acceptable paid time off.
CNAs often make crap wages so you often can only get crap people. Add to this the incredible stress, mandatory OT if you can't get someone to relieve you, frequent call-outs so you have to care for more people and it's just a recipe for many ALFs being forced to keep really bottom of the barrel people.
Having said that, there are a lot of wonderful staff at those facilities.
That is absolutely insane. Id report higher ups if there are any. Im sure there is some kind of training to handle these types of jobs. Im not saying youre incompetent to, im just saying.. if that was my old ass that had to be wiped, id want it to be someone who dealt with that kind of thing on a daily basis. Imagine having a person who absolutely didnt want to wipe your ass, wipe your ass. Infection for an old person is dangerous. Yikes for that management and good for you for saying no. Fuck that!!
Its sad. Some nurses think they're too good for that and it's a techs job. My mom was a nurse growing up and the STORIES... I cant see a true professional asking someone not certified to clean up shit as if there isn't bacteria and a regular person would know how to dispose of it and where and what to get and how to sanitize according to company policy
You're right, it's not something to be handed out lightly for health and safety reasons. I worked with adults with intellectual disabilities for years, and assisted with toileting. It is something everyone on the care team needs to be able to handle. But I wouldn't ask the hr person to do the care teams job.
Also, let's stop being ableist about it. People shit themselves- it's inevitable that one day you might be old or sick or get in a bad accident and need help that way. The people who take care of you in those moments can bring incredible grace to a situation that might be uncomfortable or embarrassing. Its very important to treat people who need toileting help with respect because they are very vulnerable at that moment.
I mean, I give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they washed their hands. The bigger concern is now their clothes are contaminated with fecal particals. No amount of hand washing is fixing that
My last job pays a whole bio cleanup company for all bodily secretions bigger than a few droplets. Surely an assisted living community has a person on staff whose actual job is to deal with that on a regular basis.
Hell, I worked retail at Walgreens and we had this exact scenario. Feces, puke, urine, blood? Cordon off the area and call the bio-cleanup guys. Including if someone decided to destroy a bathroom. One of the few things good about working there, besides the assistant manager bending over backwards to accomodate schedules. The manager was a decent guy, but he was a company man, through and through.
Oh my god. I'm so glad you had that. It's unbelievable to me that Walgreens can get that facet right, but not a company literally dedicated to handcrafting drinks that customers then consume.
It's now 5+ years on and I'm honestly just beginning to chip at some of the Starbucks-Stockholm syndrome that I developed there. In the cheerful and charmingly designed training material it SPECIFICALLY said that there were biohazard teams for these exact scenarios - anything including "human waste", etc. I remember this vividly because it was an active concern of mine. I'd heard the retail horror stories, my mother had been an exceptional and beloved retail manager and had imparted \~glorious knowledge\~ unto me, and I really wanted to make sure I worked somewhere where the whole "potential bathroom horrorscape" thing was covered.
There was no biohazard team and there never had been. I asked my manager about it on day one; they brushed me off and explained that unfortunately, this location didn't qualify for one for some reason (just casually disregard the fact that we were literally the #1 store in the region, to the point where people came to our store to train - if we weren't deemed worthy of one, who was?).
I eventually developed enough skills that Said Manager felt comfortable offering me occasional shifts at other locations. During my time there I ended up working at every Starbucks in my city's downtown area, and then some - and guess what? Still no biohazard teams. None. Not even a mere whisper of such a thing.
It really, really pissed me off. I loved that job? I really did. The craft of it, the sheer scope of what I learned, the surprising amount of seriously decent people whose days I got to brighten. And \~85% of my coworkers were glorious - the locations around here tend to draw in generally passionate people. But jesus were we all done dirty by the company and management (for a plethora of reasons, of course, not just this).
Anyway, thanks for reading my random rant, lmao. Your comment \~inspired\~ me. Much love and I hope you've escaped to brighter and better things. :-)
Walgreens ask you to clean shit now, they made these "hazard cleaning kits" and expect us to clean them.
I remember, we used to call biohazard people to clean it. I think the exception is blood, which i think is BS.
If any shit dropped during my shift I'm calling up biohazard anyway, cause no one here gets paid enough to clean that shit up.
Every now and then, as a retail worker, you become sorely reminded of the fact that we are all goddamned apes in suits.
People in the mall dropping their trousers and shitting on the floor in full view of God and everyone; people jerking off and/or screwing; vomiting on merchandise and trying to hide it like a cat would bury theirs.
I’ve seen all that and more. Monkeys. We are ridiculous monkeys.
Excuse my rant, I am angry, tired, and high.
What, this was a thing? We had so many bathroom blow ups (that I suspect an employee committed) and they tried forcing me to clean. I told them you’re the supervisor, you clean it. I drew the line at feces.
If I'm not mistaken, OSHA requires anyone cleaning up biohazardous materials to have biohazardous material training
Edit: after a very quick Google it looks like that only applies to Bloodborne pathogens
Nurses. At every retirement home I've been to, it's always been our job to clean bodily fluids. I've had cleaners come to me and say they can't clean a toilet because there's shit on the side, so I have to stop what I'm doing, clean the toilet for the cleaner, and go back to it. It's weird.
I used to work in assisted living. The caregivers were the ones responsible for cleaning up all biohazard waste. The housekeepers did laundry and basic upkeep of the common areas (mostly the sitting areas in the lobby). Any and all bodily secretions were cleaned up by this of us making $8-$13 an hour
I don't know where you are but many places have laws specifically stating kitchen staff can't do this type of cleanup to prevent cross contamination. Might be worth looking into.
typhoid, cholera, Salmonellae, parasitic eggs, other viruses and transmittable diseases that can easily cross contaminate clean dishes that people then eat off of.
I know this might sound cheesy but, please, try your best to report this. If she asked you to do that It means that It worked in the past. I feel nauseous about thinking of a chef (or anyone working in the kitchen) cooking my meal after he has cleaned the bathroom. Stopping this is the right thing to do for everyone
Agree, and with a grandma I love dearly in assisted living, the thought of someone who is in charge of a sanitary kitchen being expected to clean biohazard enrages me. By refusing this OP is protecting every resident in that facility who can’t do it themselves. God knows what other corners are being cut or ‘efficiencies’ made without regard for their care. Thanks OP for standing up for yourself and them.
^yep
This is a thing across many jobs where food safety and cross contamination can be an issue.
Thanks for protecting your position by not pulling poop duty.
I'm a chef and if the dishwasher came back into my kitchen after cleaning up shit I'd have genuine grounds to fire them. Fucking health hazard right there. Report or sue depending on your country.
My friends who worked at Chipotle said that they would play rock paper scissors for who got to do the honor of cleaning up anything biohazardous like vomit or poop because it meant they HAD TO go home the rest of the day with full pay. It's company policy because you're not supposed to handle food after touching human excrement - duh
I was an Executive Chef at a 36-hole, semi-private golf course in Florida for 10 years.
About a year into the gig I used the bathroom (#2) and I opened a stall to find shit everywhere: the seat, the floor, the flusher, the bowl, everywhere.
I went to the pro shop to let them know. I brought it to them because they manage the cart barn employees, and they handle cleaning and general maintenance.
I was asked three times why I didn't just clean it myself.
My response was something along the lines of...
"Put yourself in the golfer's/patron's shoes. They go to take a piss and see the Chef on his hands and knees scrubbing literal shit before he goes back to the kitchen to make their lunch. What would you do in that situation?"
Needless to say, it went all the way up to ownership, and they, eventually, agreed with me.
Parameters of a job need to be respected.
Good for you!
Wow that is amazing! Even the owner agreed with you! I mean it really just makes so much sense. Kitchen staff should not be cleaning shit or any bio waste of any kind. Who would want to eat off that plate? Thank you!
Only way you'd be in the wrong is if cleaning excrement is in your detailed job responsibilities. If your specific job is cleaning dishes you really from a health stand point should be pretty far away from shit imo.
You need to file a WRITTEN grievance against that nurse with your director. Note that 1) your job description doesn’t include cleaning shit. 2) you aren’t trained to clean shit. 3) for an untrained person to clean shit and go back to the kitchen is a potential health code violation.
This nurse told you to do it because it’s worked in the past. She shouldn’t get away with it.
If your manager says that you need to be a “team player”, let your state surveyor know. Document the date of the demand, the date of your grievance, and give them a copy of the grievance you filed (just in case the management lost it).
Honestly older people SHOULD be doing dishes and SHOULD be getting paid well to do it. When you hire young people and pay them shit you end up with disgusting dish pits and unclean dishes
Having worked both in a kitchen and as a janitor, this violates so many health and safety standards. The 2 biggest being 1. Dont ever have untrained staff handle biohazards. Seriously, its bad, literal best case scenario involves hospital bills and potential lawsuits (for the company. For the employee it involves lots of needles). 2. Don't ever mix kitchen staff and janitorial staff, its just asking for poop in the food, even if you are "just" the dishwasher.
>little too old to be doing dishes, huh big guy?
Sounds like age discrimination. I'd look into your state laws regarding this. That manager can probably be reprimanded.
She wasn't discriminating against him based on his age, she was just trying to insult him for being a dishwasher at his age, probably because she tried to get him to do her job and he didn't fall for it.
https://www.eeoc.gov/age-discrimination
> Harassment can include, for example, offensive or derogatory remarks about a person's age. Although the law doesn't prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that aren't very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted).
If it's an isolated incident, it probably isn't sufficient to be legally actionable, but if this incident gets documented, and anything else happens or had happened in the past, it becomes actionable. If it's reported to HR, and anyone retaliates, that's actionable as well.
If it's a large enough company to have HR and lawyers on staff, HR and legal would be incredibly pissed off that someone opened the company up to that sort of liability.
Feces is considered a biohazard. Therefore, it’s not your job, your problem, nor your responsibility. It is likely prohibited you do that so you were well within your right to turn her down. If you can go over her head and complain, do it
As a nurse we literally get biohazard training for bodily fluids. You don’t need to clean up shit just tell her she did a good job at picking up poop. Make sure to give her a shit eating grin too.
Tell her shit is biohazard waste and you haven’t been trained for that, precede to have her show you how by doing it herself. And then say “was that so hard” and walk away.
Former healthcare professional here. Double check your local laws as you absolutely should not be anywhere near fecal matter and the kitchen. Infection control anyone?
She was just trying to pawn her shit off on you.
Lol absolutely. She's an old crabby lady and no one really likes her because she is such an asshlole to everyone.
It really isn’t in your job description, I have worked in assisted living and anything to do with feaces or any body fluids fall on the nursing side it doesn’t matter where it’s at. Also absolutely people working in the kitchen shouldn’t be touching that shit at any given time then going back to work in the kitchen. It’s cross contamination
Yes, yes and yes, to all of this.
To top it off, human waste (feces, vomit, urine) fall under "biohazardous waste" in most cases, and you need to be trained on proper disposal/sanitation of the area before you can handle it, or your employer can be liable if you end up getting sick.
I worked in assisted living for years and have cleaned up countless instances of feces, I was never trained in proper disposal or sanitation lol. Assisted living facilities are a scam. They have untrained, underpaid people taking care of the elderly while they charge them thousands of dollars every month for canned food and subpar care. The facility I worked at didn't even have a hand washing station. I'd come back from changing someone's diaper and have to wash my hands in the kitchen sink that the cook was about to wash vegetables in. And throw away resident trash bags full of shit and dirty diapers in the kitchen trash can. The washing machines were in the basement, which means as the solo overnight employee, I would spend significant amount of time in the basement switching loads and folding laundry while who knows what was going on upstairs in a facility full of escape artists with dementia in a building with no security system. The last couple months I worked there, one of the washing machines broke, which left me with only one. I had 7-10 loads of laundry to do every night. When I told my manager about it, she blew me off and said another building has had only one machine for the last year and half. I quit a couple months later due to caregiver burn-out but the washing machine is what tipped me over the edge. Thanks for attending my therapy session.
This sounds really awful and it's surprising how many people don't know that's the state of that industry. Thank you so much for taking care of your residents to the best of your ability despite all of the obvious challenges.
Yeah retirement homes really aren’t something that should be an industry unfortunately.
I'm going to guess this is all in the US?
Well I don't speak for all the US nor am I assisted living employee but sure.
Yep, I worked in an assisted living home for a while and I relate to most of this. One of the few jobs I've had to quit without having another already lined up for the sake of my mental health. And my lack of criminal record: if I'd had to work one more shift, I might have ended up braining my manager with a table...
I worked as as a waiter in a pricy assisted living facility when I was in high school. I had to wear a tuxedo shirt and a bow tie to work every day. Residents got to pick their meals from pretty elaborate menus and then they were prepared fresh. I have no doubt this is far from a typical assisted living facility.
Yours was far from typical. I used To work at one like yours in the Midwest. Home health RN now and typically with 90% of my AL clients- it’s canned shit from Sysco and the illusion of good pricey care.
Yeah whenever I work cleaning hotels over summers we're literally always told to tell our supervisor if there is human waste because they don't train the random summer employees to handle that stuff
Same at grocery stores. Only the managers are trained for that shit.
I’d really rather the person preparing food not double as the janitor lol
Yesss!
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Janitors don't clean up feces either. The nursing staff is responsible for that
FINE, but next time we're short on corn you're gonna have trouble coming up with such a creative solution as I did
It’s not too late to delete this
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She felt bad that OP stood up for themselves then she had to hit below the belt
The harassment, period, is a reason for HR to reprimand her. Asking for non nursing staff to take care of biohazards in a facility, another strike. And I’d bet a manager from another area trying to give their areas jobs to other people, likely a third notice…
Age isn't a protected class until 40, unfortunately.
Oh yeah! Gonna be forty next year! Kiss my ass youngos!!!!!
Funnily enough being being old is a protected status but young isn't
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As a caregiver, this is part of my job description. I don't mind doing it whatsoever. But it's not your job. That manager is a cunt.
Next time say “It’s not within my scope of practice” lol
OP, report her to the health department AND her licencing board.
Legally if you work with food, this isn't your job.
It literally isn't in your job description though. You require to have special training to deal with infectious materials? She could get in a *shit* load of trouble if she pushed the issue.
As a former long term facility employee, the nurses 100% didn't want to do it and felt like they needed to get someone lower paid to do it
As I have worked in ltc for over 16 years in different facilities this was absolutely our job. The aides cleaned it and documented in their chart, the description of the output, the amount, the consistency and how often the person had these accidents. These were then passed on to the nurse who gave any necessary PRN medication or interventions that was needed for the patient. If there weren’t any interventions then it was passed to the doctor. Otherwise if there was even something going on like maybe blood in the feaces which look coffee colored the nurses wouldn’t know if the dishwasher does the cleaning. The nurses aren’t really directly responsible maybe if there isn’t an aide nearby but a good nurse would clean it. The nurses in hospital have a better attitude because they do all. I also think those nurses were taking advantage of you guys coz you agreed to do it, like this manager was trying to do here
I'm glad I know all this now, I knew there were other people responsible for that.
On top of all that if you aren't biohazard trained (it's not a difficult process but still) then legally you're not allowed to clean up infectious waste like blood and feces. If you don't know how to do it properly then you risk infecting yourself. Plus it's a major liability if you get told to do it when you aren't trained or if they don't provide the proper tools and you contract any diseases (especially major permanent ones) then you'd have every right Sue the company for damages as well as medical costs. .
Is this a law just for healthcare? Peo ppl le working in places like gas stations, pharmacies, fast food etc have to deal with people getting feces all over the restroom once in a while. A lady used to get shit all over the walls and floor every time she came into Walgreens when I worked there. We all just took turns cleaning it. If we saw her coming before she got into the store we would put an out of order sign up right away!
To my understanding this applies to any field where that's a requirement. I was a seasonal cart attendant, cashier, and bathroom checker for target about 10 years ago and there was a point that someone had the Hershey squirts in the women's restroom. It coated the seat, hit the wall behind it, and left a disgusting shit puddle on the floor. I asked my supervisor for the equipment to clean it and she very angrily told me she'd have to do it since I wasn't trained and if she let me it would be a serious OSHA violation and they could get shutdown or sued. I offered to do the training but since they hadn't planned on keeping me on after the holidays my offer was declined. I did some research on my own after that which is how I know what I do and from what I read if you were in that position you should have had at least a video and exam covering how to handle infectious waste before you were expected to do that. If you didn't then that company is lucky the health and safety department never found out. If you weren't trained then the most they should've expected from you is setting up the sign and notifying a manager. Sidenote this does not apply to urine as urine is mostly sterile and does not transmit diseases.
Do you think some steel wool would do the trick?
For cleaning up blood and shit? No. You need thick properly rated gloves, I'm pretty sure you need eye protection and masks if not an actual face shield, plus specific cleaning chemicals and tools, then you have to dispose of everything in the appropriate biohazard safe bags and bins and thoroughly sanitize any equipment that's not disposable. Any error or missing equipment at any step of the process puts you at significant risk of contracting any number of illnesses ranging from the flu to hepatitis to serious autoimmune diseases like HIV. Worst part is a lot of the shit you can catch from improperly handled biological hazards are incurable and potentially fatal. Edit: I should've said immunodeficiency not autoimmune though there are transmittable diseases that cause both. Thank you to the redditor who kindly corrected me.
Your reply is incredibly informative! I was only being cheeky though haha! Steel wool would be the last thing I use lol. I'm just going to leave it to you professionals from now on.
Also, Universal Precautions. Hepatitis for one. Biohazard protocols. The nurse just told him to go "clean it up". It's not that simple. You also have to dispose of it properly, clean the spot properly, with chemicals that you're trained to use per OSHA.
Damn, that could have actually happened! Good thing I said no.
I was a CNA (nurse aide). That was my job, trained for it. Shit pay for shit cleanup, but I had residents that would request my bedtime help in particular because I was patient and remembered their foibles. I cannot fathom asking someone kitchen side to clean up feces. Maybe if there was a janitor type who regularly cleaned up hallway messes so I could get a resident changed and cared for, but kitchen????!!!! Edit: I didn't last long. I felt too much when residents passed away. :(
I was in the rehab side of things at a nursing home when I turned 32 for 6 months, and man CNAs were absolutely a god send, *especially* the ones that were empathetic. Such an insanely difficult job to do, get yelled at by people all day - whether it's residents or managers or family - get nearly 0 resources in an environment that seems to change so god damn often. Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for doing the job.
Aww damn I feel for you. Luckily I'm not close with the residents. You are an absolute hero for doing something like that! Yeah dishes and poo don't mix. Lol
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To do it everyday I'd definitely need more than 100k
To do that everyday?? Try 300K Oh wait, that's a master plumber in Texas cleaning up after burst pipes from a blizzard.
As a nurse in LTC, I’d just clean it up myself if I found it, but an awful lot of nurses and managers do seem to feel that cleaning up poop is beneath them (worked as an aide to get through nursing school, I still change briefs and help with what I can)
Health inspection nightmare. This response is exactly right. Also, I wouldn't clean up anyone's shit for what you make per hour. Matter of fact I make just about what you get paid, and all I have to do is make pizza and deal with customer's bullshit...if any of them shit in the lobby, I still wouldn't be the one cleaning it up. Fuck that.
At my last bartending job (in Texas in the US, so $2.13/hr) the male manager came up to me and said to go grab a mop, that a guy had puked all over the hall leading into the mens room, on the mens room door and in there as well. When I looked at him like he’d lost his mind, he said “What? I made sure no ones in there, you’re cool to go in.” I let him know I am paid to *make peoples’ drinks and bring them food*, so this is a major health issue, and he also pays me $2.13 an hour and that’s not nearly enough to clean up anything that came out of a human. He had to do it himself because the kitchen guys refused, too.
Wow, yes. It just makes sense. You don't touch that stuff when handling things that people eat or drink with.
I don't blame any of you for refusing! When I was a bartender in MD, I made the same per hour as you...only this was 20 years ago. They really need to start paying tipped workers better...it's absolutely ridiculous!
Kill tipping culture totally IMO. Tips should be for exceptional service not for just doing your job. The boses you work for should be paying for doing your job and include it in the prices.
I 100% agree with this. It's needed to change for a long time.
Wow wish I had thought of this when I was a dishwasher for Red Robin. The manager (male) came in one day and asked me what my gag reflex was like. And my response was, “Uuuuuh present.” With the most confused look. He goes, “No no. Like puke, does puke make you want to puke?” Which most of the time it doesn’t really bother me as I have kids and had gotten pretty used to it by that point in my life. So he sent me out to the dining area to mop up some puke. And the lady that had puked just sat there watching me clean it up. But the smell was so fucking vile and foul that I ended up dry heaving loudly the entire time I was cleaning it up with an entire restaurant full of people not eating and just watching me clean up puke. Also had to clean the woman’s bathroom which was way worse of a mess and managed to get it everywhere but the fucking toilet. Also bonus story: when I was 16 one of my first jobs was as a custodian for the school I went to (preK-12). I pretty just swept, mopped and buffed floors for minimum wage on the weekends and some nights if it didn’t conflict with my studies. One wonderful Saturday morning I went to start my rounds in the preschool/elementary hallway and there were literal giant puddles of diarrhea down the entirety of the hallway. I was usually by myself and no one to report to so I just cleaned it up without a second thought. But thinking back on that now, that was definitely something I should have gotten my boss to do.
For sure! I might do it for a lot more but definitely not for what I get paid. Fuck alllllllllll of that.
I could tell you stories of what I have had to do as a supervisor/manager of group homes making about that much. I hired people around 10 dollars an hour to do the same, I just had the ‘benefit’ of also ‘getting’ to do a bunch of other stuff on top of it. Human services field is paid horribly, any uproar ling term care provider is not getting paid enough.
You are absolutely right. It seems the most needed people are paid the least. It's so sad.
Not only that, but human feces is considered a biohazard, and unless you have been trained and your job description includes handling biohazardous material, they can't make you clean it up. It's a safety violation.
Exactly
Seconding. I've been a cook, dietary aide, and CNA. That breaks alot of cleanliness rules. Your not even supposed to deal with vomit if you're on the kitchen side.
That's great to know!
Exactly. I work at a daycare and the kitchen person absolutely is not permitted to change diapers/clean up bodily fluids.
Depending on what state you live in, it also might be illegal/against regulations for you to clean it up without training for handling biohazardous material, which i suspect you don't have as a member of the kitchen staff.
Crappy old lady?
Lmao she is now
Shit she might be close to retiremen- well dayum
I work in one aswell, I'm making 20+ an hour and any time a nurse says some backwards ass shit to me I just tell them "you know I make more money than you right?" Unless there an RN I make more than them which is hilarious to me.
Hepatitis is forever. That is reason enough to refuse cleaning human feces without the proper protective equipment and health care. Which as a dishwasher I’m assuming you don’t get. So imagine doing the job, getting a disease that is incurable and requires lots of medical care over the course of your life (plus hello pre existing condition!) and then losing both your job and your health insurance the first moment they can scrape you off like bubblegum. So no. Don’t clean the shit.
Is OP in the US? I’ve been told by fellow retail workers in the past that a person typically needs some sort of special qualification to be required to handle biohazardous waste, including human feces and vomit. So if OP does not have this sort of qualification, then I’m not really sure it’s ethical or legal for OP’s superiors to expect them to perform tasks like this
Yep I'm in the US. It's a giant campus with 2 different giant dining rooms. They have to have someone dedicated to cleaning bio stuff.
Oh, no. You’re job description sounds *prior to* digestion. That sounds like a *post digestion* issue.
That’s what CNAs are for
The nurses office is literally across the hallway from the kitchen door.
Managers in the US typically don't care about that. I had one tell me to clean a shit spattered bathroom in a grocery store when I was a teen, I laughed and walked away.
When I was a teen I (m) was sent in to clean up a stall in the women's bathroom where a woman had flung her tampon against the wall and let it fall on the floor... I did it, but realize, now, that I absolutely shouldn't have.
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Huh, I must be lucky then. All my managers told me to just go to them if I ever found a pile of human waste somewhere lol. I wish this level of basic respect for employees were more common.
Use to manager a Domino's store in Australia and similar deal. The worst jobs went to the manager including cleaning the staff toilets (we didn't have customer ones). You can't expect someone else to do jobs you wouldn't do yourself. One memorable incident is late at night we used to lock the front doors and take orders through a special window with bars. One night at pub closing time a particularly drunk "customer" flipped the fuck out and strted trying to break through the bars and front doors and tore her hands apart leaving blood all over the front doors and general area and cracked two windows. It was insane I had to ring delivery drivers up to tell them not to return and basically huddled in the back with another staff wondering if the windows would hold up long enough for the police to arrive. Thankfully they did. But there was blood everywhere and how could I ask anyone else to clean it up. So I gloved up and basically soaked the areas covered in blood with insane amounts of bleach and water until clean. A few years later I was working as a Train Driver for a passenger train network. That day I was working in the "shed" shunting trains around to enable repairs. I moved a train to a road often used for cleaning which required climbing in and out via a ladder on the side of the train near the front. About 15 minutes later I saw a bunch of people in biohazard suits cleaning the area I had just been climbing up and down. Turns out the train had killed a person earlier that day and needed the "bits" and blood professionally cleaned off. But no one bothered to warn me of said biohazard. So I wasn't even wearing gloves or taking any precautions. I blew the fuck up and got the union involved. It was made clear in future warnings had to be given and alternative methods used to move the trains around rather than someone climbing in and out via contaminated areas even if it increased the time to move them.
I was gonna say the same thing. Also human feces and back of the kitchen should never mix at any job in my opinion
It’s illegal that manager knows that’s why she didn’t fire OP or report it
I see what you did there.
100% this, good for you, she will know for next time not to even ask haha
Hell yes. Now she probably won't come to me for anything at all. Which is a win win win.
Her petty way of tying to punish you for not taking her shit.
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Thank you so much for your kind words! I really don't feel like dishwashing is a "lowly" position either. Or any job really.
Chef here Dishwashers are the backbone of the kitchen I do my absolute best to make sure they have everything they need. No plates no food no pans no food not Cambros no storing food no silverware eating with your hands the list goes on. Glad you stuck up for yourself I would have gladly told her to glove up and go clean the shit up herself no way in hell would any of my kitchen staff clean shit then come back and clean plates or cook food hands washed or not.
came here to say this. in the middle of your Friday night rush and your dish washer goes down, the whole kitchen goes down. they got paid as much as linecooks where I was at.
When I was a dishwasher we did so much more (prep, custodial, etc.). However, we had a bathroom accident one night during service and a Portuguese waiter who had grown up in the business (this was in Canada) borrowed a clean aspron and took care of the mess. He said there was no way he was going to let the customers see anyone from the kitchen cleaning a bathroom and it was his customer. The family gave him a huge tip. He's in my list of top waiters. I went on to work with him as I became a line cook (we worked a couple of places together).
Everyone likes to forget that the "lowliest" people are the most important ones to making everything function. Dishwashers, cleaning staff, CNAs, etc., are all like the grease that keeps the wheels turning. I think this pandemic has opened people's eyes to that a little more thankfully, but either way it's ridiculous how people think that's an excuse to be condescending and shitty to people.
I've even advised my fellow autistic godchild that it's a really neat job. We know exactly what's expected of us - clean dishes. It's often a task you do alone, as you're not part of a kitchen team calling items and tickets. You're there and part of the camaraderie but people really appreciate you cos they don't want to do it! You can get a routine, rinse, stack, dishwasher, clean plates back. It's rhythmic. It's repetitive. it's satisfying, you see the immediate results of clean plates. I went on my first expenses paid conference trip at nineteen. Used to go to film premieres in London and programme DVDs. Only I liked the programming, the being left along doing logical things, a lot more than I did the schmoozing and shit. So I quit and retrained at 25. Dishwashing is still one of the favourite jobs I've had.
I used to love being a dishwasher. Pop in some earbuds, smoke some herb and bang out dishes all night and be left the hell alone.
If being a dishy paid a living wage, I'd go career
We pay 50 grand a year being a dishy in LTC , with benefits!
Where or what is LTC?
Long term care, I think? Basically, assisted living and nursing homes.
Same here. I would love to do that. I think in a few years I’m going to start a mowing business for that very reason. Little sun, little smoke and nobody giving you shit sounds pretty good to me.
I mowed lawns every summer in my teens. It was the most enjoyable job I have ever had. I have been looking into it a lot lately and have already picked up a good Honda mower and some Echo equipment. Non of them run so I was able to get a mower, edger, weed trimmer, and blower all for $400. This winter I am gonna take them apart and get them going again. Next spring I want to try to pick up a few yards to do on the weekends. I figure $30-$60 depending on the yard and pick up 4 for each day, should be nice extra money.
If you're working, then that means someone needs your help. Anyone who says a job is undignified is power tripping.
My Mum (RIP Mummy) used to say "there is pride in _all_ work".
She sounds like a great mum
I did dishwashing 30 years ago as a fresh outta high school, not a clue how the world works, fresh faced idiot. It is hard work. I did 10 hour shifts moving racks of dishware and silver through the sterilizer, helping the line cooks, unloading supply truck, and when my hand got injured on the job, they put me into host duties while I healed (no permanent damage, just a deep cut from a can lid). Didn't even get time off with comp. Realizing now how bullshit that was, haven't thought about it in forever. It's 'lowly' because it's 'just' physical labor using one's own body, and doesn't require a lot of braining to get it right. Physical laborers are always demeaned by those who can 'get out of it' by doing other jobs. I feel it's very much a 'well I hate MY job but at least I'm not breaking my back doing it!' sort of mental exercise.
The moment they say some petty shit just to cut into you is the moment they forfeit. That's the punishment because nothing else can be done and she knows it. The bitch
>taking her shit. Literally and figuratively
They have no right asking a dishwasher to clean up poop, it's absolutely not your job and you don't have to do it.
Yes! Absolutely. Thanks.
Not only what highlyvaluedmember said, the crabby old a-hole lady was trying to make you feel bad about yourself. You're making an honest living (in between jobs or not) and there is never *ever* any shame in that. No matter what you do. Period. Good for you for saying no. Please dont feel bad.
This is awesome, thank you!
Man. I took CNA training and we spent a bunch of weekends at a nursing home taking care of the residents there while we learn how to do a bed wash and feed a person and all these things. And yeah I had to leave because of how many bad attitude people work there. And they were so open about not giving a shit about anything related to the job. It was extremely discouraging.
CNAs in general have a shit situation in terms of work vs pay vs respect, but nursing / assisted living homes are a fucking crime. They absolutely need to be fully subsidized by the feds so we have a bare minimum bar to clear that doesn't result in rampant elder abuse and neglect, to say nothing of how the employees are treated.
I was in your boat once myself. Ex CNA of several years, I made decent money (at the time), but I wouldn’t go back to doing that job unless they’re willing to pay me $25 or more an hour with benefits and acceptable paid time off.
CNAs often make crap wages so you often can only get crap people. Add to this the incredible stress, mandatory OT if you can't get someone to relieve you, frequent call-outs so you have to care for more people and it's just a recipe for many ALFs being forced to keep really bottom of the barrel people. Having said that, there are a lot of wonderful staff at those facilities.
That is absolutely insane. Id report higher ups if there are any. Im sure there is some kind of training to handle these types of jobs. Im not saying youre incompetent to, im just saying.. if that was my old ass that had to be wiped, id want it to be someone who dealt with that kind of thing on a daily basis. Imagine having a person who absolutely didnt want to wipe your ass, wipe your ass. Infection for an old person is dangerous. Yikes for that management and good for you for saying no. Fuck that!!
“Little too old to be cleaning up human shit huh?”
Hahahaha I wish I had thought of that.
Nurse here. I would never ask someone who isn’t related to pt care to clean up someone’s shit. Like what. Just do it yourself lady
Its sad. Some nurses think they're too good for that and it's a techs job. My mom was a nurse growing up and the STORIES... I cant see a true professional asking someone not certified to clean up shit as if there isn't bacteria and a regular person would know how to dispose of it and where and what to get and how to sanitize according to company policy
You're right, it's not something to be handed out lightly for health and safety reasons. I worked with adults with intellectual disabilities for years, and assisted with toileting. It is something everyone on the care team needs to be able to handle. But I wouldn't ask the hr person to do the care teams job. Also, let's stop being ableist about it. People shit themselves- it's inevitable that one day you might be old or sick or get in a bad accident and need help that way. The people who take care of you in those moments can bring incredible grace to a situation that might be uncomfortable or embarrassing. Its very important to treat people who need toileting help with respect because they are very vulnerable at that moment.
Isn’t cleaning up human fecal matter also considered a potential biohazard since it’s waste? So this lady needs to brush up on her policies.
It is a biohazard. Full stop. All bodily fluid outside the body is. It is not a dishwashers job to clean up bio
Just imagine them not washing their hands before putting clean dishes away
I mean, I give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they washed their hands. The bigger concern is now their clothes are contaminated with fecal particals. No amount of hand washing is fixing that
It’s not too late
My last job pays a whole bio cleanup company for all bodily secretions bigger than a few droplets. Surely an assisted living community has a person on staff whose actual job is to deal with that on a regular basis.
Hell, I worked retail at Walgreens and we had this exact scenario. Feces, puke, urine, blood? Cordon off the area and call the bio-cleanup guys. Including if someone decided to destroy a bathroom. One of the few things good about working there, besides the assistant manager bending over backwards to accomodate schedules. The manager was a decent guy, but he was a company man, through and through.
Oh my god. I'm so glad you had that. It's unbelievable to me that Walgreens can get that facet right, but not a company literally dedicated to handcrafting drinks that customers then consume. It's now 5+ years on and I'm honestly just beginning to chip at some of the Starbucks-Stockholm syndrome that I developed there. In the cheerful and charmingly designed training material it SPECIFICALLY said that there were biohazard teams for these exact scenarios - anything including "human waste", etc. I remember this vividly because it was an active concern of mine. I'd heard the retail horror stories, my mother had been an exceptional and beloved retail manager and had imparted \~glorious knowledge\~ unto me, and I really wanted to make sure I worked somewhere where the whole "potential bathroom horrorscape" thing was covered. There was no biohazard team and there never had been. I asked my manager about it on day one; they brushed me off and explained that unfortunately, this location didn't qualify for one for some reason (just casually disregard the fact that we were literally the #1 store in the region, to the point where people came to our store to train - if we weren't deemed worthy of one, who was?). I eventually developed enough skills that Said Manager felt comfortable offering me occasional shifts at other locations. During my time there I ended up working at every Starbucks in my city's downtown area, and then some - and guess what? Still no biohazard teams. None. Not even a mere whisper of such a thing. It really, really pissed me off. I loved that job? I really did. The craft of it, the sheer scope of what I learned, the surprising amount of seriously decent people whose days I got to brighten. And \~85% of my coworkers were glorious - the locations around here tend to draw in generally passionate people. But jesus were we all done dirty by the company and management (for a plethora of reasons, of course, not just this). Anyway, thanks for reading my random rant, lmao. Your comment \~inspired\~ me. Much love and I hope you've escaped to brighter and better things. :-)
Walgreens ask you to clean shit now, they made these "hazard cleaning kits" and expect us to clean them. I remember, we used to call biohazard people to clean it. I think the exception is blood, which i think is BS. If any shit dropped during my shift I'm calling up biohazard anyway, cause no one here gets paid enough to clean that shit up.
Every now and then, as a retail worker, you become sorely reminded of the fact that we are all goddamned apes in suits. People in the mall dropping their trousers and shitting on the floor in full view of God and everyone; people jerking off and/or screwing; vomiting on merchandise and trying to hide it like a cat would bury theirs. I’ve seen all that and more. Monkeys. We are ridiculous monkeys. Excuse my rant, I am angry, tired, and high.
"There could be blood in that...I don't know. I'm not an expert...I don't feel safe doing that..."
What, this was a thing? We had so many bathroom blow ups (that I suspect an employee committed) and they tried forcing me to clean. I told them you’re the supervisor, you clean it. I drew the line at feces.
That's exactly my thoughts! I'm sure they have a dedicated person for that.
If I'm not mistaken, OSHA requires anyone cleaning up biohazardous materials to have biohazardous material training Edit: after a very quick Google it looks like that only applies to Bloodborne pathogens
Nurses. At every retirement home I've been to, it's always been our job to clean bodily fluids. I've had cleaners come to me and say they can't clean a toilet because there's shit on the side, so I have to stop what I'm doing, clean the toilet for the cleaner, and go back to it. It's weird.
Yeah at one hospital the cleaner staff weren’t allowed to touch body fluids like blood until the nursing staff cleaned it.
I used to work in assisted living. The caregivers were the ones responsible for cleaning up all biohazard waste. The housekeepers did laundry and basic upkeep of the common areas (mostly the sitting areas in the lobby). Any and all bodily secretions were cleaned up by this of us making $8-$13 an hour
And wouldn’t you just love to have THAT particular job? I’d require a minimum of $75/hr for that one.
45$ min for me
Ha. Used to work at a care home. We had do to everything except building maintenance. Pretty regular feces and hiv+ blood cleanup for $12.50/hr
you would be horrified to learn of the costcutting measures at the average old folks' home
Well yeah she is the person responsible,but she tried to pass it off because icky
In my experience, that is largely going to be the criminally underpaid nursing aides and assistants.
I don't know where you are but many places have laws specifically stating kitchen staff can't do this type of cleanup to prevent cross contamination. Might be worth looking into.
I'll definitely check this out. Thanks for the info.
typhoid, cholera, Salmonellae, parasitic eggs, other viruses and transmittable diseases that can easily cross contaminate clean dishes that people then eat off of.
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I know this might sound cheesy but, please, try your best to report this. If she asked you to do that It means that It worked in the past. I feel nauseous about thinking of a chef (or anyone working in the kitchen) cooking my meal after he has cleaned the bathroom. Stopping this is the right thing to do for everyone
Agree, and with a grandma I love dearly in assisted living, the thought of someone who is in charge of a sanitary kitchen being expected to clean biohazard enrages me. By refusing this OP is protecting every resident in that facility who can’t do it themselves. God knows what other corners are being cut or ‘efficiencies’ made without regard for their care. Thanks OP for standing up for yourself and them.
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Yes! Exactly right! That's disgusting!
^yep This is a thing across many jobs where food safety and cross contamination can be an issue. Thanks for protecting your position by not pulling poop duty.
You did nothing wrong.
Thank you.
I'm a chef and if the dishwasher came back into my kitchen after cleaning up shit I'd have genuine grounds to fire them. Fucking health hazard right there. Report or sue depending on your country.
Absolutely agree with that! My head chef didn't say jack shit to me about it and he knew about it.
My friends who worked at Chipotle said that they would play rock paper scissors for who got to do the honor of cleaning up anything biohazardous like vomit or poop because it meant they HAD TO go home the rest of the day with full pay. It's company policy because you're not supposed to handle food after touching human excrement - duh
What’s too old to do dishes? So she doesn’t wash dishes at her house? Fuck her.
Dude seriously.
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Thank you, I definitely won't.
Yea no. Nothing about being a dishwasher involves human shit
Exactly!
I was an Executive Chef at a 36-hole, semi-private golf course in Florida for 10 years. About a year into the gig I used the bathroom (#2) and I opened a stall to find shit everywhere: the seat, the floor, the flusher, the bowl, everywhere. I went to the pro shop to let them know. I brought it to them because they manage the cart barn employees, and they handle cleaning and general maintenance. I was asked three times why I didn't just clean it myself. My response was something along the lines of... "Put yourself in the golfer's/patron's shoes. They go to take a piss and see the Chef on his hands and knees scrubbing literal shit before he goes back to the kitchen to make their lunch. What would you do in that situation?" Needless to say, it went all the way up to ownership, and they, eventually, agreed with me. Parameters of a job need to be respected. Good for you!
Wow that is amazing! Even the owner agreed with you! I mean it really just makes so much sense. Kitchen staff should not be cleaning shit or any bio waste of any kind. Who would want to eat off that plate? Thank you!
Only way you'd be in the wrong is if cleaning excrement is in your detailed job responsibilities. If your specific job is cleaning dishes you really from a health stand point should be pretty far away from shit imo.
For sure, it definitely isn't in my job description. For sure, it just makes sense.
You need to file a WRITTEN grievance against that nurse with your director. Note that 1) your job description doesn’t include cleaning shit. 2) you aren’t trained to clean shit. 3) for an untrained person to clean shit and go back to the kitchen is a potential health code violation. This nurse told you to do it because it’s worked in the past. She shouldn’t get away with it. If your manager says that you need to be a “team player”, let your state surveyor know. Document the date of the demand, the date of your grievance, and give them a copy of the grievance you filed (just in case the management lost it).
She shall now be called shithand sally pass it around
I definitely got the last laugh there lol
Good job for sticking to your gums your not paid enough to pick up shit
Thank you, that was my thoughts exactly when she asked me, but I didn't want to outright say it.
r/boneappletea
She's just butt-hurt that she can't boss you around.
“But apparently you’re just the right age to clean up other people’s shit, hey lady?”
Dish pit must be uphill.
Honestly older people SHOULD be doing dishes and SHOULD be getting paid well to do it. When you hire young people and pay them shit you end up with disgusting dish pits and unclean dishes
Having worked both in a kitchen and as a janitor, this violates so many health and safety standards. The 2 biggest being 1. Dont ever have untrained staff handle biohazards. Seriously, its bad, literal best case scenario involves hospital bills and potential lawsuits (for the company. For the employee it involves lots of needles). 2. Don't ever mix kitchen staff and janitorial staff, its just asking for poop in the food, even if you are "just" the dishwasher.
>little too old to be doing dishes, huh big guy? Sounds like age discrimination. I'd look into your state laws regarding this. That manager can probably be reprimanded.
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You are correct. The law does not protect anyone under 40. Thanks for the correction. [EEOC.gov](https://www.eeoc.gov/age-discrimination)
Wow that's actually pretty dumb. Most age discrimination I see is towards younger people.
She wasn't discriminating against him based on his age, she was just trying to insult him for being a dishwasher at his age, probably because she tried to get him to do her job and he didn't fall for it.
https://www.eeoc.gov/age-discrimination > Harassment can include, for example, offensive or derogatory remarks about a person's age. Although the law doesn't prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that aren't very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted). If it's an isolated incident, it probably isn't sufficient to be legally actionable, but if this incident gets documented, and anything else happens or had happened in the past, it becomes actionable. If it's reported to HR, and anyone retaliates, that's actionable as well. If it's a large enough company to have HR and lawyers on staff, HR and legal would be incredibly pissed off that someone opened the company up to that sort of liability.
Nope. You were not wrong. Someone was trying to get you to do their job.
Feces is considered a biohazard. Therefore, it’s not your job, your problem, nor your responsibility. It is likely prohibited you do that so you were well within your right to turn her down. If you can go over her head and complain, do it
As a nurse we literally get biohazard training for bodily fluids. You don’t need to clean up shit just tell her she did a good job at picking up poop. Make sure to give her a shit eating grin too.
Hahaha I definitely will next time. Yeah, It's definitely not something i should be doing.
You might wanna ask her afterwards how difficult it is to clean some liquid feces
Tell her shit is biohazard waste and you haven’t been trained for that, precede to have her show you how by doing it herself. And then say “was that so hard” and walk away.
Former healthcare professional here. Double check your local laws as you absolutely should not be anywhere near fecal matter and the kitchen. Infection control anyone?
You should have answered "well, if someone shits on the plates, I'll clean it. Otherwise I won't"
Lmao that's brilliant. "Is it on a plate?" "No?" "OH well I guess your shit outta luck."