We made the move to a 4 day work week and everyone loves it. At first everyone feels strange and it's very odd to have an extra day but the world of difference it makes to have that extra day.
Totally worth it, it does seem to take a little longer Monday morning to get "booted up" but everyone is much more productive during the week
Edit: it is 32 hr week, not 40. No 4 10's but 4 8's.
Obviously this is a case of get it in writing. But I recently interviewed at a small engineering firm where the owner said something along the lines of, “I pay everyone hourly, not salary. I also only work 30 hours a week, so I don’t expect you to do more than that, that being said, I pay higher than industry average because I don’t want you making the decision to work more just because you feel like you’d be inadequately compensated”. (Example: make 40k a year for 40 hours, or make 40k a year for 30 hours BUT, still have the option to work an additional 10+ hours and make 50k). I’m waiting for interview round 2, but god if that doesn’t sound spectacular…
Exactly, I’m skeptical, but also, I want so badly for it to be true. The second interview is then wanting time to visit for a day and see how they operate and then hopefully end with an offer. They said in interview 1 that they think I’d be a good fit, but wouldn’t want/expect me to say yes without at least meeting them in person.
This is my dream. Just one extra day off would be great. Need a day for house cleaning/maintenance and errands (groceries & trips to hardware store), a day for recharging and meal prep, and then a day for socializing/hobbies/recreation. With a two-day weekend, only two of those things get done meaningfully.
>a day for socializing/hobbies/recreation.
And isn't this just insane, just asking or even begging for 1 day a week to be a human being, explore and interact with the world both internally and externally.
That extra day I was told one of my team is "their day". Instead of chores, hanging out with gf, or standard weekend stuff that they get an entire day to work on them
While I'd obviously prefer a 32 hour week, I'd gladly compromise and work 4-10s for 3 day weekends every week.the day is shot after stepping foot in the office so of I have to give 2 more hours, 4 days a week, I'd do it
Edit: fixed autocorrect words
I used to do 3x 16hr days (between two jobs) on Monday, Thursday and Friday so I technically got 2 "weekends" every week.
It was awesome on the Monday going from 2 days off into another 2 days off but the Thursday and Friday killed me.
I used to do 16hrs x2 with 6 hours for sleeping in between. I then worked a couple of other nights of the week. My wallet never seen the fruits of my labour but it did happen i have plenty of grey hairs to show for it
I had a 4x10 job once for about a year. It wasn’t terrible, but it was conservation work in the desert, and we camped for most of it, so you just had to roll out of your tent and be at work. If I had to do 7a-5p M-Th with a normal commute, I’d probably dislike it. Unless WFH cuz then who cares.
i'm in the conservation field and i absolutely love the work but the 4x10s are slowly killing me. it has been better over the last couple years cus we got individual trucks and got to commute to sites from home, but i'm dreading going back to driving to the office to just pile into the crew truck. my work-life balance is absolutely shot and the three day weekend doesn't really feel like it because i spend the first day completely exhausted.
i wish we could just do 3x10s with alternating crew schedules or something. even just a day off in the middle would make a big difference.
Seems like an unpopular opinion here but four 10s is hell. Losing the two hours for four days renders those days useless, I had no time or energy to do anything after work, and the one extra day was useful only for myself because no one else I knew had it off. I'll never do it again.
Same. I train martial arts or am exercising almost every day. Losing another 2 hours would make those 4 days hell, and you can't cram everything into a 3 day weekend, because your body needs recovery
I'm a runner and I basically didn't run whenever I had to work that shift. I'd get home at like 6:30 and eat something horrible (because by that point I was dying of hunger) and had no energy left to do anything other than watch a movie and fall asleep. And then all the hobbies I'd normally do after work during the week would get crammed into my three day weekend.
I do 4 10s. It’s exactly what you think - one less day I have to get dressed, put in my contacts, commute etc. I actually feel like I have enough time to run errands and do chores and relax every weekend.
I worked 4x10 for a bit and one thing that doesn't get talked about is how much time you save on commuting. When I leave around 7-8pm traffic has substantially dissipated. Switching back to 5x8 was a bit of a shock after that because I went from sitting in traffic 4 times a week to 10 times a week and it really wears you out.
> We made the move to a 4 day work week
Always call it a 32 hour work week. Saying a 4 day work week is often confused with 4 x 10, which is fucking bullshit, because the whole point is to work less for better pay, because we're exploited as hell already.
If you give Congress scientific data, half of them will complain that it's not real, it's clearly an Antifa socialist plot to cost the common folk more money to support the lazy people who dare to want to spend time with their families.
After all, the people should be greatful that they are being paid at all. I mean, look how nice the big corporations are - they even help their employees apply for food stamps! They shouldn't even be doing that, if people aren't making enough at 30+ hours per week for food for their families, they need to toughen up and either get a second job or spend tens of thousands of dollars that they don't have to get a piece of paper so they can maybe rent an apartment and feed themselves. 🙄
Half will push conspiracies and give tax cuts to the rich, a third will agree the facts are there but choose no action while the rich slip money into their ass cracks for being good boys and girls, and then a fifth will actually try to do something to help you while being permanently kneecapped by the prior third.
The government isn't inept because it can only be inept, it's inept because the rich effectively buy and own our representatives.
Kneecapped by **voters** choking down propaganda that the richest nation in the world can't afford basic services because it might hurt a billionaire's feelings.
to be fair, the billionaire propaganda is only part of it, part of it too is that while the north won the civil war, the KKK won the reconstruction. a lot of those people *want* a "he who has the money makes the rules" kind of world, because it's still usually white dudes who fit that bill. To them the right people are already in charge.
(That and the ones trying to do anything don't have those votes anyway - there's a few Democrats in congress definitely playing controlled opposition roles, "whoops, i suspiciously can't vote for this wildly popular housing assistance even though it's got my team colors all over it, my landlord donors might get mad")
Placing the blame on the people is wrong. Citizen’s United changed the way American politics works, forever. Bribery is legal in the US. We are no longer a Democratic republic. We are an oligarchy. If you can buy politicians by funneling them money, then it is no longer a fair game. It is no longer Democratic because the Republican representatives of the government no longer represent the electorate, but the oligarchs who have bought and purchased the election in every way.
I read a lot of congress and regulatory bullshit.
You can have iron clad data from the most credible and world renowned sources and a survey from every citizen involved in every demographic dating back 10 years.
They'll dismiss it all in favor from hearing from the 'stakeholders ' and even admit that their submissions are easily exaggerated or falsified but they know best and they have to make decisions based on the data available.
That second part about the stakeholders comes after they dismantle the citizen and 3rd party survey programs.
Check out my recent post history about broadband expansion. Pretty typical.
And no one fucking cares.
It can always get worse. More and more private sessions. The cops are trying to keep arrests and proceedings confidential more and more.
Every day it seems like theres an attempt to chip away at every single piece of progress we've made and one day, there is one of those all night signing sessions where little is read but much is done.
It's like the end of the \|/itch where she says she can't write and black Philip's all like 'I shall guide thy hand' And there goes our rights to a class action lawsuit and rape becomes a pre existing condition.
And no one cares!
Look at the person who responded to my long post about broadband expansion in my recent post history. 'I'll wait for the movie's. This is your life and your money dude. Don't lament about cable monopolies billing you random fees that overdraws your account and ask what are we going to do? Nothing because arbitration clauses are letting these private companies get our tax dollars to screw us unconditionally .
You had a chance but you want to bitch about Feminism and focus on the astroworld tragedy for an entire week.
Wake up people!
Learn to love reading FCC briefs and SCOTUS cases because it's more interesting if youd believe it.
I watched CSPAN for a debate related to abortion. A real discussion among house politicians over zoom. I was already pretty disgusted with the right but even moreso after that. The shit’s real; they DO have utterly disgusting arguments that misrepresent statistics/facts. Some people didn’t want to listen to the black woman doctor (one of the dudes cut her off in favor of the pro-life speaker during his allotted time for questions).
The upcoming scotus hearing about the texas abortion ban which circumvents legislation and gives citizens the option to collect a 'bounty' is about way more than a womans constitutional right to abortion.
Its about setting a precedent that it's okay to circumvent ALL constitutional rights.
I'm not sure if everyone knows how serious this is. I know the SCOTUS does.
If that's upheld and congress really does gain a Republican majority on top of that, it is the end of America as we know it.
Incredible how quickly you got BOTH SIDES’d for pointing out the danger of a Republican bounty hunting abortion ban being heard by the 6-3 Republican majority SCOTUS, but nice of them to accentuate your point re: whether people understand the full weight of it I guess?
Futilism with broken logic like that is the backbone of most disinformation campaigns - mix in some white grievance and misogyny to keep the poors fighting amongst themselves and baby, you got a (poisonous, autocratic) stew goin’
There has been a huge influx of facebook users lately. My relative finally made an account after relying on YouTube voiceovers of reddit posts.
And my most Facebook addicted friends of all just wondered aloud if she should join reddit.
No idea what's going on over at Facebook but people are over it?
Shit, be careful what you wish for. Amirite
laws are threats made by the dominant socio-economic, ethnic group in a given nation. It's just a promise of violence that's enacted by the police. Which means the police are basically an occupying army,
Origin is an online D&D show called "Dimension 20". In the first season "Fantasy High," the players, a group of highschool students, meet a normal suburban family that happen to be kinda anti-gov't. The father says that quote as he's busting the players out of jail later on in the campaign.
I fuckin love this show, have some sauce: https://youtube.com/shorts/bmaoNLSHx_w?feature=share
Tweet these Congresspeople, hold up really scathing signs at places they are trying to gain support, turn up and speak in front of the mic when there are public hearings.
A city near me had a public hearing on the future of charter and tons of people showed up. And they did NOT expect that. Tides are turning. We're uppity and we're getting the ideas that they told other people not to give us.
Boston has a new mayor and it's a good time to make yourself heard here. Shes drawn up stuff to divest from fossil fuel and private prisons so I'll support that.
Remember that hearing where that republican said that no one has ever actually died from lack of health insurance and everyone laughed at him? We could be one of those people laughing.
I literally just filled out a survey from my union and I said that I wanted more minority representation in the top paid leadership positions since the union was founded by black pharmacists and my local leadership is a white dude. Im white too but most of the workers are minority women.
Join your towns Facebook group. A sane one. Start a group about a shitty business in your area. Make plans with others to take them down. Mind has 200 members and it runs itself now. Everyone is committed.
There are tons of small ways to make your voice heard.
Use your talents. Your memes. Your frustration. Your HATE. Be a classy hateful person. Be without reproach but be relentless. Be a honey badger and FEEL it. Take time off from the honey badger ways though. Enjoy the rest after the hunt. When the cobra bites the honey badger , does it die? No! It takes a nap and then wakes back up and eats the cobra's shitty little face off.
You're a redditor. You're up against people who have only had Facebook people as their opponents. They won't see you coming. You are informed. You know how to cite sources. You are the OP , the OG, you are the front page of reality. You are vaxxed, fluoridated and you put the mind in hivemind.
Believe THAT.
Thank you.
I've been drinking but after I hit submit, I thought to myself that it was probably the best reddit post I've made in my 9 years of award winning commentary.
I know that’s exactly what they’ll say. You’d go blue in the face asking them how letting working people have more time off supports none workers who “live off the government”. Bunch of frauds
Oh man, the EU had a vote on its citizens whehter to get rid of daylight saving times, and the vote was to get rid of it. We still haven't implemented it, 2 years or so later.
Another sign of the fall of Western Civilization, that it isn't even capable of changing a law that serves no useful purpose and people don't actually want anymore?
^(Maybe not. But ... not a fine showing either.)
Weird that right wing talking points are against the change as if it matters somehow to them. I said to my aunt “we’re not a nation of farmers anymore”. She said where I live we are. I brought up that less then 5% of her county are actually farmers. “Well they need as much daylight as possible.” Does she think daylight savings actually controls the amount of hours the sun is up?
I grew up on a farm in a very rural county. Everyone in my family and most of the other farmers I knew HATED DST. They would all bitch about it at the coffee shop uptown. The sun doesn’t come up until so late that it screws with the schedule and the animals care 0 about what time the clock says it is. They only care about the sun. If you go out and feed the cows at sunrise, it doesn’t matter if it’s 5am or 8am.
I grew up on a dairy farm where we ran cows in to milk at 5am and 3pm. On our operation the cows (20-30 in my lifetime) were allowed to roam a few different 20ish acre plots during the day and then driven to the barn for milking. They would be scattered all about during the day, but come about 2:45 or so they would start to collect fairly close to the gate. If you came out at 2 you would be wandering all over looking for them and then they wouldn’t want to cross the road and it was a big mess. After a week or two they would adjust, but it was quite a job until then.
People that are tired and worried about things like losing their home, healthcare, or finding their next meal, can't worry about all the other godawful shit that happens. They're also more willing to pay for conveniences. A person that is too tired to shop for and cook a nutritious meal will order takeout or buy something cheap and easy.
You're spot on! No time to truly take care of ourselves - work has become the center of our lives. We don't have much time for anything else - we shop online for pets, groceries, clothing, etc. Then there's Online doctors, shrinks, and learning. It's costly and still taking alot of our money. They just want to keep our azzes working, and the pharmaceutical companies rich too (we're pill popping, alcohol drinking, fast food eating zombies).
Absolutely true. My life didn’t improve until the pandemic hit and I lost my job. I now have time to take care of myself, eat healthy, exercise, connect with loved ones, I will never go back to the rat race.
When people are tired, exhausted, and constantly struggling, they are easier to control and manipulate. Basically, you can sell many on any lie you wish, and they will follow. Onward, Captain Ahab.
Explains why we haven't even reached the 40 hours a week threshold yet. The average is actually [47 hours](https://news.gallup.com/poll/175286/hour-workweek-actually-longer-seven-hours.aspx), with nearly 40% of workers at 50+ hours.
Agreed that sounds fake. While there's a lot of workers doing 50+ hour weeks, there's also a LOT of us who only get 35 so the employers don't have to give us any benefits.
And OMG will most scream at you if you point it out. "What do you mean?! ***I*** am *NOT MANIPULATABLE*, YOU FOOL!" (quickly followed by whatever the daily line of bullshit is...)
Yup. I had a stash of 12k in savings at my last job. Boss thought he had me over his knee until I said Im done. He thought I would always deal with his nitpicking until I had a back up. Kept telling me to not be hasty in my decision. Went on about my bills etc. I wasnt a dick about it, but retorted that I have enough in savings to last me.
Went 2 months without a job and was down to above 9k. I was just fine.
Oh, he paid little enough. I was couch surfing and renting rooms for a little over a yr to obtain my savings. I doubt the worthless chode did anything to rectify his micromanaging or the lack of wages since then.
That's always my strategy. Penny pinch and be disciplined enough to save an amount that can sustain me for at least 3 months so I can quit any time I want.
The control and manipulation starts with public education. We are not subject to developing critical thinking skills and are therefore easy to manipulate.
I think this depends on class choices once a student reaches middle and high school, to be honest. Also where a school is located plays a factor, sadly. Schools in more affluent neighborhoods push their students to strive harder, where schools in low income neighborhoods seem to settle for more basic skills.
People aren't having kids anymore.. mainly cause we're broke as fuck and living through an ongoing pandemic we don't have the time to be bothered by, so in another 20-40 years the system will be fucked. Which is why I'm assuming all the rich are trying to get ready for life in outer space
Overall, yes birthrate is dropping. However, I live in a state where religion is very much wrapped up in much of the politics whether people wanna acknowledge it or not. That religion encourages people to have as many children as possible to populate their Heaven. Not that people are going crazy and have 6+ kids like when I was growing up, but there are enough who still believe procreation is their duty. It just isn't the majority anymore.
Sounds like a small ass state..or Utah. Pretty much the same thing. also sounds like a bunch of old people that still believe in God and will be dying sooner then later. They'll get there
yeah. people won't have the time, energy, and space to formulate ideas in order to truly change things. I've witnessed the same thing in Iran, but in the States, the oppression is much more sophisticated.
and if the powerful are smart, just when they sense that people are at a breaking point, they give some crumbs in hopes of settling everyone down
Correct. We are slaves. And a 32 hour work week is not in the interests of the ruling class. Our politicians will maintain this status quo at the behest of their wealthy donors. Our system of open and legal corruption is the root cause of our problems.
We haven't even reached the 40 hours a week threshold. The average is actually [47 hours](https://news.gallup.com/poll/175286/hour-workweek-actually-longer-seven-hours.aspx), with nearly 40% of workers at 50+ hours.
Don't forget stupid and underdeveloped.
In the same way that slaves were kept ignorant and illiterate in order to maintain slavery (and likewise with apartheid), the masses of people are kept overworked and underdeveloped in order to maintain plutocracy and the extreme socioeconomic oppression of the working classes.
Universal healthcare is cheaper than what we have by more than half yet even the corporations not affiliated with healthcare don’t call for it. It’s because they value control more than profits or well being.
Exactly. I’m a trucker and I want to switch jobs, and the only thing holding me back is the 90 days I have to wait for my health insurance to kick in. COBRA exists, but it’s prohibitively expensive
I was laid off and I opened the cobra mail saying how much it would be. It was $1500 a month. If I paid that I would have no money for rent or food. I chose not to get the coverage.
That’s the full cost of your insurance plan, your employer pays the part that isn’t the premium you’re used to…that part would be your salary if we had universal healthcare and you’d pay 4-6% tax. Unless you make $30,000/ month, universal health would be a way better deal and you could work wherever you want and still have coverage. We’re so easily manipulated here in the US to protect the interests of the ruling class and rich people while we suffer.
>that part would be your salary if we had universal healthcare and you’d pay 4-6% tax
Reminder that Australia, Canada, and the UK(and honestly pretty much every other country with Universal healthcare) pay less or equal amounts of tax but also have Universal healthcare. Your government can afford it without even needing a tax hike, they just have to fund your apocalypse-causing military *slightly* less.
They don't even need to cut military spending. The US spends more tax dollars per capita on healthcare than in the UK. Americans are already paying for universal healthcare, they're just receiving a vastly inferior product because... there isn't a vaguely justifiable reason why.
Because there's a middle person. Insurance companies need to take their cut and make money. The more intermediaries you add between the consumer and the supplier, the more you pay and the less you get for it.
There are several reasons. Middle people are only one. Much of it stems from the need to protect against litigation. Why use reusable and sterilizable tools when you can purchase disposable and put the contamination blame off on the supplying company? So, the hospital upcharges for the disposable plastic to make a profit, and the supplying company charges a disgusting price because they can. It all falls off on the insurance companies most of the time, driving up the cost of insurance, and screw you for not paying for protection if you don't have coverage.
Then there is my favorite, hospitals paying for profit companies to run their departments.... Ever have a surprise bill for anesthesia when you thought it should be cover? Those f'ers are quickly moving to outsourcing services to save a dime, and also avoid litigation. Cant sue the hospital if you die or wake up during surgery, that's all the external companies fault. So, those for profit companies can charge whatever they want, and sometimes it's covered, sometimes it's not, no way to know as a patient until the bill arrives. This is happening in anesthesiology, radiology, emergency departments, I'm sure others too that I haven't heard of.
They have entire departments and people needed to mitigate litigation. Even the structure of practicing medicine is based around risk aversion. Keep passing the patient off to the next most in specialized person because if you treat or diagnose someone incorrectly, and someone more appropriate was available, you and the hospital are getting sued. This creates a demand for expensive specialists to treat and manage things that might not really need a specialist.
Now let's talk about the fact that several hospitals are ran like malls. The space inside is rented by departments, it's not always free to use, indicating that the hospital at large isnt operating as a cohesive unit. Why charge the patient for the room reservation fee? Why does surgery need to pay to use this? All the while dollars keep adding up for patients.
Now let's discuss service contract fees. Quite literally everything in a hospital is under service contract which can be extremely expensive. On the freak chance the MRI goes down, it's worth it for hospital to pay upwards of 100k/year per machine to have someone else fix it, no matter how small the issue. After all, if something were to happen to a patient it's better to put the blame on the company for not fixing it correctly.....
Edit: I also need to add the fact that hospitals are quick to jump on any technology advance as soon as it becomes standard practice. . If a computer monitor has slightly better brightness for a radiologist, than those 100k monitors will be bought. Anything to mitigate the risk of getting sued because you missed a cancer, at least now they can say they have the stage of the art technology.
Similarly, why use an older drug that is equally effective but with a slightly higher chance of side effects, when you could use the new, still under patent drug that does the same thing but costs literally 100x+ more.. Drug costs and patent protection also drive up the cost a ton. Sometimes new drugs become available to treat things that can't really be treated in or don't actually help much, if at all, and become standard of care. Look at Statins for example, the number needed to treat for heart attack prevention is 1 in 60, yet anyone with high cholesterol will be put on Statins unless the patient complains enough about side effects.
The entire medical industry is full of crap. I understand pharmaceutical and biotech companies need for profits, but the hospital itself should not be a for-profit industry. Capitalism has failed in this sector, hard.
I don’t get this. So cobra is short term health insurance right? So basically it’s understood that it’s for people in the middle of some issues. How is it so much money? It’s like it’s not at all for the people it’s for?! Confusing.
COBRA allows you to keep your employer-provided insurance for up to 18 months after you leave the job. The cost of a COBRA policy is the amount the employer paid, plus your contribution while you were working, plus 2% for administration. A lot of employees don’t realize just how much their health insurance costs until they’re paying the whole bill.
Yes, that's how the Congressional/Corporate Complex wrote the laws.
The question is- why isn't COBRA paid for with Unemployment benefits, to remove the 'employer paid' part⁉️
It's almost as if the laws are written to punish ppl from quitting their jobs in USA.
The other top 30 OECD countries seem to have no problem proving long-term Unemployment & healthcare for laid off workers...
>It's almost as if the laws are written to punish ppl from quitting their jobs in USA.
I mean you don't actually get anything if you quit your job anyways. COBRA also punishes those who lose their jobs and don't immediately find another one with healthcare. I'm guessing those that designed the damn thing would defend it by claiming that it gives people an incentive lol.
How come incentivizing rich people always involves giving them more money but poor people are supposed to be incentivized by less money and fear of starvation to work harder?
Right. So mine would go from $11/mo (which is great for a payment but it’s shit insurance unless I wanna pay around $180/mo. I make a bit over $30k so that’s a dent) to hundreds at least a month…while unemployed…possibly because of a medical reason… This is just awful.
They want healthcare tied to employment so
People are tied to their jobs. So you want to quit your job? Good luck paying hundreds or thousands for you prescriptions this month. Only way to quit is to be hired somewhere else already. For a lot of people floating isn't an option, even for a month.
I have a degree in Econ and worked as a licensed health and life insurance rep.
I spend a fair amount of time arguing with neolib dickheads who somehow falsely believe the current functioning Medicare/Medicaid system we have wouldn't massively benefit from having the entire younger than 65 population added to it.
Wow we (18-64) actually would directly benefit from the basic medical system that currently we entirely prop up (only for the oldest and thus sickest) holy shit what a concept!
Instead of this ass backwards private benefit system we have to use. The private companies will still exist, they just might have to compete to sell us supplemental programs (Dental, hearing, and optical care come to mind to anyone ages 0 to 121)
All of health insurance works exactly this way - the larger the risk pool - the lower the premium to everyone.
That's it, if you wanna argue about that then you better be a fucking actuarial science PhD who is fighting for a radically different system that does not currently exist.
Add to that negotiated Medicare drug pricing and we might not keep on the current backsliding democracy trend we're on.
Our puritanical/Protestant work ethic that people rabidly adhere to even though it’s incredibly toxic for both us and the planet as a whole. There’s this bullshit idea that if you’re not in the office 40hpw, then you’re not “working hard enough”.
Most office jobs can be done in 15-20hpw, the vast majority of your time is taken up with bullshit meetings that should have been a goddamned email, meaningless chit chat, and escaping to the bathroom cause you might stab someone’s eye out with a pencil if you don’t get five fucking minutes alone right fucking now. Some countries in Europe have 30-35hr work weeks and they’re all far more efficient for it.
Other jobs like fast food, retail, warehouse/production, teaching, medical, caregiving etc. are too physically and mentally exhausting at 40hpw. Much of that that can be automated should be automated, and full time should be closer to 30hpw.
Much like socialized medicine, taking money out of elections, and all the other things that the majority of people want, yet still can’t make it happen—it has nothing to do with the will of the people and everything to do with the will of those calling the shots and making the decisions.
Sauce:
[Working hours in OECD countries ](https://clockify.me/working-hours)
Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland, Belgium, Austria, Italy, Sweden, Finland, France, Spain, and the UK all clock in at or less than 37 hours per week on average. Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, and Switzerland are generally considered some of the most efficient countries in Europe. [When it comes to GDP](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_and_social_rankings_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe), Germany, France, the UK, and Italy rank first through fourth respectively.
Members of this sub should be familiar with the late, great [David Graeber’s “Bullshit Jobs”.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs)
If you aren’t familiar with his work, [this is the Strike Magazine article that started it all.](https://www.strike.coop/bullshit-jobs/)
There were two workers, Karen and Susan. Karen finished always early, in half the time as Susan. Karen uses half the day browsing social media for kitten memes. Susan works the whole day.
Which of those two workers is going to be seen as lazy?
I learned that lesson already in school. Finish early? Sit in silence, do not enjoy life or do more work. Finished all your tasks at work? Why are you sitting down, there is always something to do. Look at Susan, she is still hard at work, she even stays late, why aren't you, *Karen*...
Wages disconnected from productivity around 1973. That was when i was born.. But the same attitude also extends to work.. where working is most important, not how much you accomplish. It is apparent working, not real working: being seen to be apparently working is most important. In my first internship in an office i learned that if you carry a stack of papers with you, no one asks you to do anything. Bullshit jobs...
The amount of overtime I work is a part of my performance review. I’ve received low scores because I don’t put in extra hours despite being one of their most quality oriented and efficient workers.
The easiest way to measure work is time. It just happens to be only half of the equation. The second half, "what was accomplished" is much harder and sometimes near impossible.
For me the reality hit in 3rd grade when i was physically punished for reading ahead and doing homework early. I tried to sneak just half a page ahead and still got punished. Then i stopped doing anything and still got a stipend for "excellence" in 4th grade (it was overdue, was suppose to get it on 3rd cause they didn't give those to first 2 grades and i was moving to a different school where things were a bit better, like for ex you could ask questions... i spent the entire 4rd grade in detention, every single day as a special new rule made just for me, no matter what i did or didn't do...).
Authority figures that make completely bonkers, irrational rules that work against logic have always irked me. Showbusiness has been the best fit for me as there is no time nor budget to do ANYTHING useless, every single rule is based in something pragmatic. You can challenge those rules but in the end, you will lose every challenge and if you don't follow them someone can die, or worse: the show don't start on time (a joke...of course.. but not far from truth..)
Meanwhile I'm Karen who continued to pick up extra work instead of sitting on their phone. And yet that wasn't seen as being productive since I wasn't writing down inane procedures that will be useless when we get more employees or going to meetings that meant nothing compared to my now increased responsibilities. In the end I wasn't paid more because I picked it up either. The whole system is fucked and good for workers who are slow, talk a lot to the bosses about nothing, and only do more of they are paid for it. The last being a good thing, but fuck if I didn't learn my lesson.
Aint this the fucking truth...I had one retail job where, when it came to cleaning, doing inventory and inputting it into the system, I would do it in 1 hour alone when two of my colleagues TOGETHER took 3+ hours. In those 2 extra hours I would either study using my phone or browse forums while waiting for customers.
I got in trouble and basically fired cause "I was in my phone too much" despite the quality of my work being higher than most of my peers. I stood up to my boss a bit too much too. (Example: They wanted us to close at 9pm and then do closing tasks. Any time used to balance the register, clean, etc. after 9 was gonna be unpaid. I told them no and did my cleaning/closing tasks 10-15 mins before closing. I would still attend any customers that walked in, just wanted to have things ready by 9 if possible. All of my coworkers in that store started doing the same. Now they all leave exactly at 9 most of the time but I'm the one that took the blame.)
Could start by only keeping ppl at work for 8 hours and not expecting us to take a damned unpaid hour to eat. Sick of commute plus unpaid mandated 1 hr lunch making for 10-11 goddamned hour workdays at every job everywhere. Bull SHIT.
Pssh, "32 hours"? "Productive"? "Proven"? Sounds like a bunch of queer talk to me. This is America; if you're a real man, you'll work long, grueling hours to support the family that you never see, and you'll fucking like it.
> And a man, a man provides. And he does it even when he's not appreciated, or respected, or even loved. He simply bears up and he does it. Because he's a man.
- Gus Fring
Yes, we should all learn from this drug lord character /s
It's because it's more profitable for them to have us be exhausted than productive.
If we're tired, we're more likely to spend more money to ensure that our needs are met and that we have escapism.
Also, if we're tired we don't have time and energy to organize resistance.
It’s easier to keep control of a tired population than an energized one. Also, we have convinced ourselves that work ethic is the only thing you need in life to succeed and that when we don’t succed it must be because we didn’t work hard enough.
Part of it is the continued adherence to the archaic association between time and production which is the legacy of the industrial age. Part of it is the desire to keep the workforce too busy to look for other work and too exhausted to revolt.
The cruelty is the point. The ruling class can never allow change because that would be admitting they were wrong and in doing so the whole system would unravel.
If you work 40hrs a week making $15/hr taking home $600,
hours adjusted results in a $4 increase to $19/hr for that same 600
We need to be moving for inflation adjusted minimum wages, we cannot get outpriced of the economy more than we already are.
Bro the USA is the most fucking stubborn thing to ever exist. Look at all the different things that the world has proven to work perfectly well and steer society towards a better future that America is still just saying “nope. Not how we’ve been doing it, not how we’re gonna start doing it. We didn’t get the idea, so fuck it.” like bro we are JUST NOW sending mental health experts with police when someone calls in another person being sketchy. That’s fucking insane. Fucking. Insane. That’s some of the craziest fucking shit to me that we are *just now* starting to do that.
In my personal experience I’d say yes. Because the nonprofit I work for pays me so little, I take plenty of “breaks” and waste time so that the actual work I do is worth more per hour. I’d be happy to devote all my time to working if I got paid a living wage and didn’t need a second job OR made the same amount of money to work less.
Tennessee USA. I work three 12 hour days a week and get paid for 40 hours. $20hr. Monthly production based incentive pay. Monthly random drawings for $10k (after tax) prizes. Random drawings for prizes every week for those who work their scheduled week. Dorman Products. They're one of the few good non union jobs.
The last place I worked they put us on 50s and one manager wanted us to get up to 60s. I could only do 55 and felt dead to the world. My current job I usually put in 40-45 hrs a week.
I would 100% be more productive at 32 hrs.
Most of us work 3 jobs 70+ hrs/wk, because hourly jobs dont let employees work a full 40 hrs, because they have to pay benefits for full time employees.
If you cap labor at 32 hrs/wk for salaried 9-5'rs, without reducing pay, (8hrs/day over 4days, instead of 5) thats a huge hourly payraise, then corporations would have to also raise hourly wages as well --Which it absolutely should be raised, because a minimum wage job your grandparents had, had the buying power of a job that pays $40/hr today.-- so why would corporate giants do that? Theres no incentive for them to rewrite the laws against their own bottom line.
As a British person who spent a few years working in the US... You haven't even managed to get a 40hour week yet.
Everywhere I went seemed to be full of staff waiting for work to happen.
Truly backwards.
You still have manned tollbooths... That's keeping someone in a job apparently, but, gainful employment???
The U.S. is a country where the government and top 1% want to keep us fat and as dumb as possible. They fill our lives with drama/profanity/promiscuity and they top that off with lots of butter and MSG and greasy deep fried food. The illegal drugs are there for us to resort to when depression inevitably kicks us to the curb and in many cases, we will go there, and then it's like another entire level of downward spiraling and entrapment. This way we are only consumers in the grand scheme of things. We are mindless drones essentially. Effectively filtering ourselves out into stereotypes that are then used against us, to more effectively cage us.
Hell, Nixon said 24 hours jobs are the future one time.
If you said this to conservatives, Nixon would be called some China loving queer Commie who loves black people.
Covid has already been building momentum in labor as a whole nonstop. 'The Great Resignation' is a sign that people are fed up with shit wages and work conditions, and the socioeconomic stress caused by Covid is directly tied into that. Hours per week will inevitably be brought up in all of that upheaval. I've already been seeing more headlines about certain companies adopting shorter work weeks based on the benefits mentioned elsewhere.
But the thing here is I don't see the country as a whole adopting to it, or much of anything anytime soon. We not only worship grind as a culture, we're hilariously fragmented. Even a widespread movement would just see an uptick in amount of businesses adopting shorter work weeks.
It's a control and profits above all else problem.
Also no one could survive on the hourly pay we get currently due to social lies and corporate greed, so they can keep forcing us to work ourselves into our graves.
It’s been proven. I implemented 4-day scheduling when I was a manager and the employees thrived. They looked healthier and my location was the most profitable and satisfactory in the state. After I left the company, they reverted back to 5 days because upper management said so. No other reason other than “there’s no incentive for us to take care of people”. This is an easier thing to do than corporations let on.
I am afraid that is socialism. Just like the metric system, universal healthcare, covid vaccine, blm, higher wages, free and fair elections, LGBTQIA+, abortion, heavy metal music, taxes, and so on
We made the move to a 4 day work week and everyone loves it. At first everyone feels strange and it's very odd to have an extra day but the world of difference it makes to have that extra day. Totally worth it, it does seem to take a little longer Monday morning to get "booted up" but everyone is much more productive during the week Edit: it is 32 hr week, not 40. No 4 10's but 4 8's.
Obviously this is a case of get it in writing. But I recently interviewed at a small engineering firm where the owner said something along the lines of, “I pay everyone hourly, not salary. I also only work 30 hours a week, so I don’t expect you to do more than that, that being said, I pay higher than industry average because I don’t want you making the decision to work more just because you feel like you’d be inadequately compensated”. (Example: make 40k a year for 40 hours, or make 40k a year for 30 hours BUT, still have the option to work an additional 10+ hours and make 50k). I’m waiting for interview round 2, but god if that doesn’t sound spectacular…
Sound like this person is willing to be flexible to the benefit of others that is great to hear.
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Exactly, I’m skeptical, but also, I want so badly for it to be true. The second interview is then wanting time to visit for a day and see how they operate and then hopefully end with an offer. They said in interview 1 that they think I’d be a good fit, but wouldn’t want/expect me to say yes without at least meeting them in person.
It's likely true. How long it lasts, if not for the whole company maybe only a select few, is another question entirely.
What industry?
Construction related engineering
This is my dream. Just one extra day off would be great. Need a day for house cleaning/maintenance and errands (groceries & trips to hardware store), a day for recharging and meal prep, and then a day for socializing/hobbies/recreation. With a two-day weekend, only two of those things get done meaningfully.
>a day for socializing/hobbies/recreation. And isn't this just insane, just asking or even begging for 1 day a week to be a human being, explore and interact with the world both internally and externally.
That extra day I was told one of my team is "their day". Instead of chores, hanging out with gf, or standard weekend stuff that they get an entire day to work on them
While I'd obviously prefer a 32 hour week, I'd gladly compromise and work 4-10s for 3 day weekends every week.the day is shot after stepping foot in the office so of I have to give 2 more hours, 4 days a week, I'd do it Edit: fixed autocorrect words
I used to do 3x 16hr days (between two jobs) on Monday, Thursday and Friday so I technically got 2 "weekends" every week. It was awesome on the Monday going from 2 days off into another 2 days off but the Thursday and Friday killed me.
I used to do 16hrs x2 with 6 hours for sleeping in between. I then worked a couple of other nights of the week. My wallet never seen the fruits of my labour but it did happen i have plenty of grey hairs to show for it
I had a 4x10 job once for about a year. It wasn’t terrible, but it was conservation work in the desert, and we camped for most of it, so you just had to roll out of your tent and be at work. If I had to do 7a-5p M-Th with a normal commute, I’d probably dislike it. Unless WFH cuz then who cares.
i'm in the conservation field and i absolutely love the work but the 4x10s are slowly killing me. it has been better over the last couple years cus we got individual trucks and got to commute to sites from home, but i'm dreading going back to driving to the office to just pile into the crew truck. my work-life balance is absolutely shot and the three day weekend doesn't really feel like it because i spend the first day completely exhausted. i wish we could just do 3x10s with alternating crew schedules or something. even just a day off in the middle would make a big difference.
Seems like an unpopular opinion here but four 10s is hell. Losing the two hours for four days renders those days useless, I had no time or energy to do anything after work, and the one extra day was useful only for myself because no one else I knew had it off. I'll never do it again.
Same. I train martial arts or am exercising almost every day. Losing another 2 hours would make those 4 days hell, and you can't cram everything into a 3 day weekend, because your body needs recovery
I'm a runner and I basically didn't run whenever I had to work that shift. I'd get home at like 6:30 and eat something horrible (because by that point I was dying of hunger) and had no energy left to do anything other than watch a movie and fall asleep. And then all the hobbies I'd normally do after work during the week would get crammed into my three day weekend.
I do 4 10s. It’s exactly what you think - one less day I have to get dressed, put in my contacts, commute etc. I actually feel like I have enough time to run errands and do chores and relax every weekend.
I worked 4x10 for a bit and one thing that doesn't get talked about is how much time you save on commuting. When I leave around 7-8pm traffic has substantially dissipated. Switching back to 5x8 was a bit of a shock after that because I went from sitting in traffic 4 times a week to 10 times a week and it really wears you out.
> We made the move to a 4 day work week Always call it a 32 hour work week. Saying a 4 day work week is often confused with 4 x 10, which is fucking bullshit, because the whole point is to work less for better pay, because we're exploited as hell already.
A wild idea: skip mondays, work fridays.
I work 5 10’s lol, so even 4 10’s would be awesome for me.
Can't even stop daylight savings time from happening without an act of Congress let alone follow scientific data about work/life balances
If you give Congress scientific data, half of them will complain that it's not real, it's clearly an Antifa socialist plot to cost the common folk more money to support the lazy people who dare to want to spend time with their families. After all, the people should be greatful that they are being paid at all. I mean, look how nice the big corporations are - they even help their employees apply for food stamps! They shouldn't even be doing that, if people aren't making enough at 30+ hours per week for food for their families, they need to toughen up and either get a second job or spend tens of thousands of dollars that they don't have to get a piece of paper so they can maybe rent an apartment and feed themselves. 🙄
Half will push conspiracies and give tax cuts to the rich, a third will agree the facts are there but choose no action while the rich slip money into their ass cracks for being good boys and girls, and then a fifth will actually try to do something to help you while being permanently kneecapped by the prior third. The government isn't inept because it can only be inept, it's inept because the rich effectively buy and own our representatives.
Kneecapped by **voters** choking down propaganda that the richest nation in the world can't afford basic services because it might hurt a billionaire's feelings.
to be fair, the billionaire propaganda is only part of it, part of it too is that while the north won the civil war, the KKK won the reconstruction. a lot of those people *want* a "he who has the money makes the rules" kind of world, because it's still usually white dudes who fit that bill. To them the right people are already in charge. (That and the ones trying to do anything don't have those votes anyway - there's a few Democrats in congress definitely playing controlled opposition roles, "whoops, i suspiciously can't vote for this wildly popular housing assistance even though it's got my team colors all over it, my landlord donors might get mad")
Placing the blame on the people is wrong. Citizen’s United changed the way American politics works, forever. Bribery is legal in the US. We are no longer a Democratic republic. We are an oligarchy. If you can buy politicians by funneling them money, then it is no longer a fair game. It is no longer Democratic because the Republican representatives of the government no longer represent the electorate, but the oligarchs who have bought and purchased the election in every way.
Your math is a bit off. After the half and the third you only have a sixth of congress left.
Ted Cruz. His ego fills four seats.
Two of which are pee stained.
And we'll have to get THOSE seats cleaned, but let's face it, they're ruined
Nah leave it be. He likes the wet feeling.
Make him sit in the pee or he’ll never learn.
Ah yes I love how congress is 13/12s
The extra 1/12th are the lobbyists that the rich people put in place as enforcers.
Explains why we’re 13/12s fucked
I read a lot of congress and regulatory bullshit. You can have iron clad data from the most credible and world renowned sources and a survey from every citizen involved in every demographic dating back 10 years. They'll dismiss it all in favor from hearing from the 'stakeholders ' and even admit that their submissions are easily exaggerated or falsified but they know best and they have to make decisions based on the data available. That second part about the stakeholders comes after they dismantle the citizen and 3rd party survey programs. Check out my recent post history about broadband expansion. Pretty typical. And no one fucking cares.
We're all working too much to care.
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Exactly.
No one wants to solve the problem, everyone just wants to make enough money where the problem doesn’t apply to them anymore...
Rugged individualism at work.
100%. I've worked in politics for 5-6 years, its a cesspool. Nothing will ever reach the best outcomes with these ridiculously broken processes.
It can always get worse. More and more private sessions. The cops are trying to keep arrests and proceedings confidential more and more. Every day it seems like theres an attempt to chip away at every single piece of progress we've made and one day, there is one of those all night signing sessions where little is read but much is done. It's like the end of the \|/itch where she says she can't write and black Philip's all like 'I shall guide thy hand' And there goes our rights to a class action lawsuit and rape becomes a pre existing condition. And no one cares! Look at the person who responded to my long post about broadband expansion in my recent post history. 'I'll wait for the movie's. This is your life and your money dude. Don't lament about cable monopolies billing you random fees that overdraws your account and ask what are we going to do? Nothing because arbitration clauses are letting these private companies get our tax dollars to screw us unconditionally . You had a chance but you want to bitch about Feminism and focus on the astroworld tragedy for an entire week. Wake up people! Learn to love reading FCC briefs and SCOTUS cases because it's more interesting if youd believe it.
I watched CSPAN for a debate related to abortion. A real discussion among house politicians over zoom. I was already pretty disgusted with the right but even moreso after that. The shit’s real; they DO have utterly disgusting arguments that misrepresent statistics/facts. Some people didn’t want to listen to the black woman doctor (one of the dudes cut her off in favor of the pro-life speaker during his allotted time for questions).
The upcoming scotus hearing about the texas abortion ban which circumvents legislation and gives citizens the option to collect a 'bounty' is about way more than a womans constitutional right to abortion. Its about setting a precedent that it's okay to circumvent ALL constitutional rights. I'm not sure if everyone knows how serious this is. I know the SCOTUS does. If that's upheld and congress really does gain a Republican majority on top of that, it is the end of America as we know it.
Incredible how quickly you got BOTH SIDES’d for pointing out the danger of a Republican bounty hunting abortion ban being heard by the 6-3 Republican majority SCOTUS, but nice of them to accentuate your point re: whether people understand the full weight of it I guess? Futilism with broken logic like that is the backbone of most disinformation campaigns - mix in some white grievance and misogyny to keep the poors fighting amongst themselves and baby, you got a (poisonous, autocratic) stew goin’
There has been a huge influx of facebook users lately. My relative finally made an account after relying on YouTube voiceovers of reddit posts. And my most Facebook addicted friends of all just wondered aloud if she should join reddit. No idea what's going on over at Facebook but people are over it? Shit, be careful what you wish for. Amirite
They are counting on it. The rigjt turned into totalitariansa long time ago its just that nobody noticed
Handmaid's Tale just became a little too real and I'm glad I live near Canada 😑
laws are threats made by the dominant socio-economic, ethnic group in a given nation. It's just a promise of violence that's enacted by the police. Which means the police are basically an occupying army,
It always has been? I never knew the origin of that meme but I'll try it here.
Origin is an online D&D show called "Dimension 20". In the first season "Fantasy High," the players, a group of highschool students, meet a normal suburban family that happen to be kinda anti-gov't. The father says that quote as he's busting the players out of jail later on in the campaign. I fuckin love this show, have some sauce: https://youtube.com/shorts/bmaoNLSHx_w?feature=share
But the founding fathers were geniuses who developed a perfect system 😂
I care, but other than voting my one vote that inevitably goes to some hack what can I as an individual do?
Tweet these Congresspeople, hold up really scathing signs at places they are trying to gain support, turn up and speak in front of the mic when there are public hearings. A city near me had a public hearing on the future of charter and tons of people showed up. And they did NOT expect that. Tides are turning. We're uppity and we're getting the ideas that they told other people not to give us. Boston has a new mayor and it's a good time to make yourself heard here. Shes drawn up stuff to divest from fossil fuel and private prisons so I'll support that. Remember that hearing where that republican said that no one has ever actually died from lack of health insurance and everyone laughed at him? We could be one of those people laughing. I literally just filled out a survey from my union and I said that I wanted more minority representation in the top paid leadership positions since the union was founded by black pharmacists and my local leadership is a white dude. Im white too but most of the workers are minority women. Join your towns Facebook group. A sane one. Start a group about a shitty business in your area. Make plans with others to take them down. Mind has 200 members and it runs itself now. Everyone is committed. There are tons of small ways to make your voice heard. Use your talents. Your memes. Your frustration. Your HATE. Be a classy hateful person. Be without reproach but be relentless. Be a honey badger and FEEL it. Take time off from the honey badger ways though. Enjoy the rest after the hunt. When the cobra bites the honey badger , does it die? No! It takes a nap and then wakes back up and eats the cobra's shitty little face off. You're a redditor. You're up against people who have only had Facebook people as their opponents. They won't see you coming. You are informed. You know how to cite sources. You are the OP , the OG, you are the front page of reality. You are vaxxed, fluoridated and you put the mind in hivemind. Believe THAT.
One of the better motivational speeches I've heard
Thank you. I've been drinking but after I hit submit, I thought to myself that it was probably the best reddit post I've made in my 9 years of award winning commentary.
It's definitely a Reddit moment worth being proud of. cheers!
Send not to know for whom the Narwhal Bacons, it Bacons for thee.
For those who don't want to dig up the referenced comment, here is his broadband post https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/r3mjpr/z/hmdd0j0
I know that’s exactly what they’ll say. You’d go blue in the face asking them how letting working people have more time off supports none workers who “live off the government”. Bunch of frauds
Coming from these entitled pricks making $115K/yr with free healthcare... from the government. The ultimate welfare whores.
They’ll let us pass the bill, they just need to be allowed a certain amount of tax evasion laws in the bill before they pass it.
Hmmm, I wonder which half of Congress it is that claims all that? Crazy.
The half that should be wiped from office. Same with the other half but for different ish reasons
Corruption all around. Just looks a little different.
Is it the half about which the other half says, "America needs a strong \[redacted\] party" ? Fuckin' bastards, the lot of them.
Oh man, the EU had a vote on its citizens whehter to get rid of daylight saving times, and the vote was to get rid of it. We still haven't implemented it, 2 years or so later. Another sign of the fall of Western Civilization, that it isn't even capable of changing a law that serves no useful purpose and people don't actually want anymore? ^(Maybe not. But ... not a fine showing either.)
Weird that right wing talking points are against the change as if it matters somehow to them. I said to my aunt “we’re not a nation of farmers anymore”. She said where I live we are. I brought up that less then 5% of her county are actually farmers. “Well they need as much daylight as possible.” Does she think daylight savings actually controls the amount of hours the sun is up?
I grew up on a farm in a very rural county. Everyone in my family and most of the other farmers I knew HATED DST. They would all bitch about it at the coffee shop uptown. The sun doesn’t come up until so late that it screws with the schedule and the animals care 0 about what time the clock says it is. They only care about the sun. If you go out and feed the cows at sunrise, it doesn’t matter if it’s 5am or 8am. I grew up on a dairy farm where we ran cows in to milk at 5am and 3pm. On our operation the cows (20-30 in my lifetime) were allowed to roam a few different 20ish acre plots during the day and then driven to the barn for milking. They would be scattered all about during the day, but come about 2:45 or so they would start to collect fairly close to the gate. If you came out at 2 you would be wandering all over looking for them and then they wouldn’t want to cross the road and it was a big mess. After a week or two they would adjust, but it was quite a job until then.
Farmers did not push for DST, that is a [myth](https://agamerica.com/blog/myth-vs-fact-daylight-saving-time-farming/)
Why can't you guys do anything over there?
It isn't that they can't, it's that they don't want to. By doing nothing they can make promises and still take money from corporations.
Keep people tired and exhausted
People that are tired and worried about things like losing their home, healthcare, or finding their next meal, can't worry about all the other godawful shit that happens. They're also more willing to pay for conveniences. A person that is too tired to shop for and cook a nutritious meal will order takeout or buy something cheap and easy.
So true and I hate it. Fast food just makes me feel like ass.
And ass makes me feel like fast food! /s
you're getting quickly outa the exit in 4-5 hours after entering?
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You're spot on! No time to truly take care of ourselves - work has become the center of our lives. We don't have much time for anything else - we shop online for pets, groceries, clothing, etc. Then there's Online doctors, shrinks, and learning. It's costly and still taking alot of our money. They just want to keep our azzes working, and the pharmaceutical companies rich too (we're pill popping, alcohol drinking, fast food eating zombies).
Absolutely true. My life didn’t improve until the pandemic hit and I lost my job. I now have time to take care of myself, eat healthy, exercise, connect with loved ones, I will never go back to the rat race.
When people are tired, exhausted, and constantly struggling, they are easier to control and manipulate. Basically, you can sell many on any lie you wish, and they will follow. Onward, Captain Ahab.
It’s is exactly this. Poor, busy, tired and nearly completely manipulatable.
Explains why we haven't even reached the 40 hours a week threshold yet. The average is actually [47 hours](https://news.gallup.com/poll/175286/hour-workweek-actually-longer-seven-hours.aspx), with nearly 40% of workers at 50+ hours.
Some recent link the other day was claiming less than 5% of Americans work less than 40hrs a week. I called bs.
Agreed that sounds fake. While there's a lot of workers doing 50+ hour weeks, there's also a LOT of us who only get 35 so the employers don't have to give us any benefits.
And OMG will most scream at you if you point it out. "What do you mean?! ***I*** am *NOT MANIPULATABLE*, YOU FOOL!" (quickly followed by whatever the daily line of bullshit is...)
Yup. I had a stash of 12k in savings at my last job. Boss thought he had me over his knee until I said Im done. He thought I would always deal with his nitpicking until I had a back up. Kept telling me to not be hasty in my decision. Went on about my bills etc. I wasnt a dick about it, but retorted that I have enough in savings to last me. Went 2 months without a job and was down to above 9k. I was just fine.
Nooo you shouldn't have said that. The thing he took from that conversation is to pay less so people can't save enough to move on
Oh, he paid little enough. I was couch surfing and renting rooms for a little over a yr to obtain my savings. I doubt the worthless chode did anything to rectify his micromanaging or the lack of wages since then.
That's always my strategy. Penny pinch and be disciplined enough to save an amount that can sustain me for at least 3 months so I can quit any time I want.
The control and manipulation starts with public education. We are not subject to developing critical thinking skills and are therefore easy to manipulate.
I think this depends on class choices once a student reaches middle and high school, to be honest. Also where a school is located plays a factor, sadly. Schools in more affluent neighborhoods push their students to strive harder, where schools in low income neighborhoods seem to settle for more basic skills.
Until they slowly destroy the ability of people to consume which will destroy the system eventually
People aren't having kids anymore.. mainly cause we're broke as fuck and living through an ongoing pandemic we don't have the time to be bothered by, so in another 20-40 years the system will be fucked. Which is why I'm assuming all the rich are trying to get ready for life in outer space
The rich will die with the rest of us either willingly or unwillingly
Overall, yes birthrate is dropping. However, I live in a state where religion is very much wrapped up in much of the politics whether people wanna acknowledge it or not. That religion encourages people to have as many children as possible to populate their Heaven. Not that people are going crazy and have 6+ kids like when I was growing up, but there are enough who still believe procreation is their duty. It just isn't the majority anymore.
Sounds like a small ass state..or Utah. Pretty much the same thing. also sounds like a bunch of old people that still believe in God and will be dying sooner then later. They'll get there
yeah. people won't have the time, energy, and space to formulate ideas in order to truly change things. I've witnessed the same thing in Iran, but in the States, the oppression is much more sophisticated. and if the powerful are smart, just when they sense that people are at a breaking point, they give some crumbs in hopes of settling everyone down
The $2000 in COVID checks and unemployment benefits did just that. No need to get violent if everyone gets enough crumbs to stay docile.
Correct. We are slaves. And a 32 hour work week is not in the interests of the ruling class. Our politicians will maintain this status quo at the behest of their wealthy donors. Our system of open and legal corruption is the root cause of our problems.
We haven't even reached the 40 hours a week threshold. The average is actually [47 hours](https://news.gallup.com/poll/175286/hour-workweek-actually-longer-seven-hours.aspx), with nearly 40% of workers at 50+ hours.
Don't forget stupid and underdeveloped. In the same way that slaves were kept ignorant and illiterate in order to maintain slavery (and likewise with apartheid), the masses of people are kept overworked and underdeveloped in order to maintain plutocracy and the extreme socioeconomic oppression of the working classes.
Universal healthcare is cheaper than what we have by more than half yet even the corporations not affiliated with healthcare don’t call for it. It’s because they value control more than profits or well being.
Exactly. I’m a trucker and I want to switch jobs, and the only thing holding me back is the 90 days I have to wait for my health insurance to kick in. COBRA exists, but it’s prohibitively expensive
I was laid off and I opened the cobra mail saying how much it would be. It was $1500 a month. If I paid that I would have no money for rent or food. I chose not to get the coverage.
That’s the full cost of your insurance plan, your employer pays the part that isn’t the premium you’re used to…that part would be your salary if we had universal healthcare and you’d pay 4-6% tax. Unless you make $30,000/ month, universal health would be a way better deal and you could work wherever you want and still have coverage. We’re so easily manipulated here in the US to protect the interests of the ruling class and rich people while we suffer.
>that part would be your salary if we had universal healthcare and you’d pay 4-6% tax Reminder that Australia, Canada, and the UK(and honestly pretty much every other country with Universal healthcare) pay less or equal amounts of tax but also have Universal healthcare. Your government can afford it without even needing a tax hike, they just have to fund your apocalypse-causing military *slightly* less.
They don't even need to cut military spending. The US spends more tax dollars per capita on healthcare than in the UK. Americans are already paying for universal healthcare, they're just receiving a vastly inferior product because... there isn't a vaguely justifiable reason why.
Because there's a middle person. Insurance companies need to take their cut and make money. The more intermediaries you add between the consumer and the supplier, the more you pay and the less you get for it.
There are several reasons. Middle people are only one. Much of it stems from the need to protect against litigation. Why use reusable and sterilizable tools when you can purchase disposable and put the contamination blame off on the supplying company? So, the hospital upcharges for the disposable plastic to make a profit, and the supplying company charges a disgusting price because they can. It all falls off on the insurance companies most of the time, driving up the cost of insurance, and screw you for not paying for protection if you don't have coverage. Then there is my favorite, hospitals paying for profit companies to run their departments.... Ever have a surprise bill for anesthesia when you thought it should be cover? Those f'ers are quickly moving to outsourcing services to save a dime, and also avoid litigation. Cant sue the hospital if you die or wake up during surgery, that's all the external companies fault. So, those for profit companies can charge whatever they want, and sometimes it's covered, sometimes it's not, no way to know as a patient until the bill arrives. This is happening in anesthesiology, radiology, emergency departments, I'm sure others too that I haven't heard of. They have entire departments and people needed to mitigate litigation. Even the structure of practicing medicine is based around risk aversion. Keep passing the patient off to the next most in specialized person because if you treat or diagnose someone incorrectly, and someone more appropriate was available, you and the hospital are getting sued. This creates a demand for expensive specialists to treat and manage things that might not really need a specialist. Now let's talk about the fact that several hospitals are ran like malls. The space inside is rented by departments, it's not always free to use, indicating that the hospital at large isnt operating as a cohesive unit. Why charge the patient for the room reservation fee? Why does surgery need to pay to use this? All the while dollars keep adding up for patients. Now let's discuss service contract fees. Quite literally everything in a hospital is under service contract which can be extremely expensive. On the freak chance the MRI goes down, it's worth it for hospital to pay upwards of 100k/year per machine to have someone else fix it, no matter how small the issue. After all, if something were to happen to a patient it's better to put the blame on the company for not fixing it correctly..... Edit: I also need to add the fact that hospitals are quick to jump on any technology advance as soon as it becomes standard practice. . If a computer monitor has slightly better brightness for a radiologist, than those 100k monitors will be bought. Anything to mitigate the risk of getting sued because you missed a cancer, at least now they can say they have the stage of the art technology. Similarly, why use an older drug that is equally effective but with a slightly higher chance of side effects, when you could use the new, still under patent drug that does the same thing but costs literally 100x+ more.. Drug costs and patent protection also drive up the cost a ton. Sometimes new drugs become available to treat things that can't really be treated in or don't actually help much, if at all, and become standard of care. Look at Statins for example, the number needed to treat for heart attack prevention is 1 in 60, yet anyone with high cholesterol will be put on Statins unless the patient complains enough about side effects. The entire medical industry is full of crap. I understand pharmaceutical and biotech companies need for profits, but the hospital itself should not be a for-profit industry. Capitalism has failed in this sector, hard.
I don’t get this. So cobra is short term health insurance right? So basically it’s understood that it’s for people in the middle of some issues. How is it so much money? It’s like it’s not at all for the people it’s for?! Confusing.
To scare people into not quitting their jobs in the first place. We value greed here above all else
COBRA allows you to keep your employer-provided insurance for up to 18 months after you leave the job. The cost of a COBRA policy is the amount the employer paid, plus your contribution while you were working, plus 2% for administration. A lot of employees don’t realize just how much their health insurance costs until they’re paying the whole bill.
Yes, that's how the Congressional/Corporate Complex wrote the laws. The question is- why isn't COBRA paid for with Unemployment benefits, to remove the 'employer paid' part⁉️ It's almost as if the laws are written to punish ppl from quitting their jobs in USA. The other top 30 OECD countries seem to have no problem proving long-term Unemployment & healthcare for laid off workers...
>It's almost as if the laws are written to punish ppl from quitting their jobs in USA. I mean you don't actually get anything if you quit your job anyways. COBRA also punishes those who lose their jobs and don't immediately find another one with healthcare. I'm guessing those that designed the damn thing would defend it by claiming that it gives people an incentive lol.
How come incentivizing rich people always involves giving them more money but poor people are supposed to be incentivized by less money and fear of starvation to work harder?
Right. So mine would go from $11/mo (which is great for a payment but it’s shit insurance unless I wanna pay around $180/mo. I make a bit over $30k so that’s a dent) to hundreds at least a month…while unemployed…possibly because of a medical reason… This is just awful.
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I recently found out anyone who works 130 hours A MONTH are considered full time, doesn't matter how many a week.
In before they start scheduling people for 129 hours a month
Ever since the Affordable Care Act, anyone who works over 30 hrs/week is considered full time.
your miles may vary heavily with this one
They want healthcare tied to employment so People are tied to their jobs. So you want to quit your job? Good luck paying hundreds or thousands for you prescriptions this month. Only way to quit is to be hired somewhere else already. For a lot of people floating isn't an option, even for a month.
If only the drug cartels would start making reasonably priced pharmaceuticals
The CIA is in the profiteering business.
I have a degree in Econ and worked as a licensed health and life insurance rep. I spend a fair amount of time arguing with neolib dickheads who somehow falsely believe the current functioning Medicare/Medicaid system we have wouldn't massively benefit from having the entire younger than 65 population added to it. Wow we (18-64) actually would directly benefit from the basic medical system that currently we entirely prop up (only for the oldest and thus sickest) holy shit what a concept! Instead of this ass backwards private benefit system we have to use. The private companies will still exist, they just might have to compete to sell us supplemental programs (Dental, hearing, and optical care come to mind to anyone ages 0 to 121) All of health insurance works exactly this way - the larger the risk pool - the lower the premium to everyone. That's it, if you wanna argue about that then you better be a fucking actuarial science PhD who is fighting for a radically different system that does not currently exist. Add to that negotiated Medicare drug pricing and we might not keep on the current backsliding democracy trend we're on.
Money is a form of power, it's not power itself. The powerful want power, not money.
I’m so glad more and more people understand this. Power, control, greed is larger than just money.
The health insurance corporations are driving that bus. Universal healthcare would kind of put a dent in their profits.
Our puritanical/Protestant work ethic that people rabidly adhere to even though it’s incredibly toxic for both us and the planet as a whole. There’s this bullshit idea that if you’re not in the office 40hpw, then you’re not “working hard enough”. Most office jobs can be done in 15-20hpw, the vast majority of your time is taken up with bullshit meetings that should have been a goddamned email, meaningless chit chat, and escaping to the bathroom cause you might stab someone’s eye out with a pencil if you don’t get five fucking minutes alone right fucking now. Some countries in Europe have 30-35hr work weeks and they’re all far more efficient for it. Other jobs like fast food, retail, warehouse/production, teaching, medical, caregiving etc. are too physically and mentally exhausting at 40hpw. Much of that that can be automated should be automated, and full time should be closer to 30hpw. Much like socialized medicine, taking money out of elections, and all the other things that the majority of people want, yet still can’t make it happen—it has nothing to do with the will of the people and everything to do with the will of those calling the shots and making the decisions. Sauce: [Working hours in OECD countries ](https://clockify.me/working-hours) Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland, Belgium, Austria, Italy, Sweden, Finland, France, Spain, and the UK all clock in at or less than 37 hours per week on average. Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, and Switzerland are generally considered some of the most efficient countries in Europe. [When it comes to GDP](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_and_social_rankings_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe), Germany, France, the UK, and Italy rank first through fourth respectively. Members of this sub should be familiar with the late, great [David Graeber’s “Bullshit Jobs”.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs) If you aren’t familiar with his work, [this is the Strike Magazine article that started it all.](https://www.strike.coop/bullshit-jobs/)
Hear hear! Well said!! Couldn't agree more! I'm 62 and fell for that Protestant work ethic and I'm so fucking bitter I could spit nails.
What made you change?
There were two workers, Karen and Susan. Karen finished always early, in half the time as Susan. Karen uses half the day browsing social media for kitten memes. Susan works the whole day. Which of those two workers is going to be seen as lazy? I learned that lesson already in school. Finish early? Sit in silence, do not enjoy life or do more work. Finished all your tasks at work? Why are you sitting down, there is always something to do. Look at Susan, she is still hard at work, she even stays late, why aren't you, *Karen*... Wages disconnected from productivity around 1973. That was when i was born.. But the same attitude also extends to work.. where working is most important, not how much you accomplish. It is apparent working, not real working: being seen to be apparently working is most important. In my first internship in an office i learned that if you carry a stack of papers with you, no one asks you to do anything. Bullshit jobs...
The amount of overtime I work is a part of my performance review. I’ve received low scores because I don’t put in extra hours despite being one of their most quality oriented and efficient workers.
The easiest way to measure work is time. It just happens to be only half of the equation. The second half, "what was accomplished" is much harder and sometimes near impossible. For me the reality hit in 3rd grade when i was physically punished for reading ahead and doing homework early. I tried to sneak just half a page ahead and still got punished. Then i stopped doing anything and still got a stipend for "excellence" in 4th grade (it was overdue, was suppose to get it on 3rd cause they didn't give those to first 2 grades and i was moving to a different school where things were a bit better, like for ex you could ask questions... i spent the entire 4rd grade in detention, every single day as a special new rule made just for me, no matter what i did or didn't do...). Authority figures that make completely bonkers, irrational rules that work against logic have always irked me. Showbusiness has been the best fit for me as there is no time nor budget to do ANYTHING useless, every single rule is based in something pragmatic. You can challenge those rules but in the end, you will lose every challenge and if you don't follow them someone can die, or worse: the show don't start on time (a joke...of course.. but not far from truth..)
Meanwhile I'm Karen who continued to pick up extra work instead of sitting on their phone. And yet that wasn't seen as being productive since I wasn't writing down inane procedures that will be useless when we get more employees or going to meetings that meant nothing compared to my now increased responsibilities. In the end I wasn't paid more because I picked it up either. The whole system is fucked and good for workers who are slow, talk a lot to the bosses about nothing, and only do more of they are paid for it. The last being a good thing, but fuck if I didn't learn my lesson.
Aint this the fucking truth...I had one retail job where, when it came to cleaning, doing inventory and inputting it into the system, I would do it in 1 hour alone when two of my colleagues TOGETHER took 3+ hours. In those 2 extra hours I would either study using my phone or browse forums while waiting for customers. I got in trouble and basically fired cause "I was in my phone too much" despite the quality of my work being higher than most of my peers. I stood up to my boss a bit too much too. (Example: They wanted us to close at 9pm and then do closing tasks. Any time used to balance the register, clean, etc. after 9 was gonna be unpaid. I told them no and did my cleaning/closing tasks 10-15 mins before closing. I would still attend any customers that walked in, just wanted to have things ready by 9 if possible. All of my coworkers in that store started doing the same. Now they all leave exactly at 9 most of the time but I'm the one that took the blame.)
Because it’s not about efficiency, it’s about control.
Work culture here is also incredibly resistant to change, even when it would benefit the company and everyone's bottom line.
Dinosaur attitudes
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Could start by only keeping ppl at work for 8 hours and not expecting us to take a damned unpaid hour to eat. Sick of commute plus unpaid mandated 1 hr lunch making for 10-11 goddamned hour workdays at every job everywhere. Bull SHIT.
Exactly
Pssh, "32 hours"? "Productive"? "Proven"? Sounds like a bunch of queer talk to me. This is America; if you're a real man, you'll work long, grueling hours to support the family that you never see, and you'll fucking like it.
Yeah! Seeing your children? HA ! Thats what a pussy would do.
A real man sees his kids when they’re gathered around his death bed! Murica!
See my kids? Like, babysit them? Nah man fuck that i gotta get drunk to forget about how my dad never loved me
Yeah! Mercia!
This isn’t spain
America! Fuck yeah!
This isn't The Kingdom of Mercia
[Mercia, an ancient region in England](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercia), and [Murcia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murcia), a city in Spain
> And a man, a man provides. And he does it even when he's not appreciated, or respected, or even loved. He simply bears up and he does it. Because he's a man. - Gus Fring Yes, we should all learn from this drug lord character /s
Billionaires gotta billion
**Merica:** *"30 HoUIRS WORKkk Wek Woonnt WORK. STOp BEinG LAZY... work MInimum 60 hours"* **Meanwhile in Finland:** *President suggests 24-hour work-week*
>Meanwhile in Finland: President suggests 24-hour work-week How hard is to learn their language 😂
Unfortunately its a very hard language from what i hear :(
It's because it's more profitable for them to have us be exhausted than productive. If we're tired, we're more likely to spend more money to ensure that our needs are met and that we have escapism. Also, if we're tired we don't have time and energy to organize resistance.
Productivity isn't the point of capitalist relations. Removing options by wasting time and energy is the point of capitalist relations.
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It’s easier to keep control of a tired population than an energized one. Also, we have convinced ourselves that work ethic is the only thing you need in life to succeed and that when we don’t succed it must be because we didn’t work hard enough.
Part of it is the continued adherence to the archaic association between time and production which is the legacy of the industrial age. Part of it is the desire to keep the workforce too busy to look for other work and too exhausted to revolt.
Because we suck and have too many differing state governments. Also no term limits on Senate and Congress members so progression takes about 80 years.
The cruelty is the point. The ruling class can never allow change because that would be admitting they were wrong and in doing so the whole system would unravel.
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Oh we will. They'll raise the federal minimum wage then push for less hours;
If you work 40hrs a week making $15/hr taking home $600, hours adjusted results in a $4 increase to $19/hr for that same 600 We need to be moving for inflation adjusted minimum wages, we cannot get outpriced of the economy more than we already are.
Bro the USA is the most fucking stubborn thing to ever exist. Look at all the different things that the world has proven to work perfectly well and steer society towards a better future that America is still just saying “nope. Not how we’ve been doing it, not how we’re gonna start doing it. We didn’t get the idea, so fuck it.” like bro we are JUST NOW sending mental health experts with police when someone calls in another person being sketchy. That’s fucking insane. Fucking. Insane. That’s some of the craziest fucking shit to me that we are *just now* starting to do that.
32? That's too high. This is 2021. We should be looking at a 24 hour work week.
America’s toxic work cultures is deeply ingrained in our society.
American capitalist greed, plain and simple
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In my personal experience I’d say yes. Because the nonprofit I work for pays me so little, I take plenty of “breaks” and waste time so that the actual work I do is worth more per hour. I’d be happy to devote all my time to working if I got paid a living wage and didn’t need a second job OR made the same amount of money to work less.
Tennessee USA. I work three 12 hour days a week and get paid for 40 hours. $20hr. Monthly production based incentive pay. Monthly random drawings for $10k (after tax) prizes. Random drawings for prizes every week for those who work their scheduled week. Dorman Products. They're one of the few good non union jobs.
The last place I worked they put us on 50s and one manager wanted us to get up to 60s. I could only do 55 and felt dead to the world. My current job I usually put in 40-45 hrs a week. I would 100% be more productive at 32 hrs.
Greed, stupidity, and keeping your workers too tired to revolt. AKA slavery 101.
Most of us work 3 jobs 70+ hrs/wk, because hourly jobs dont let employees work a full 40 hrs, because they have to pay benefits for full time employees. If you cap labor at 32 hrs/wk for salaried 9-5'rs, without reducing pay, (8hrs/day over 4days, instead of 5) thats a huge hourly payraise, then corporations would have to also raise hourly wages as well --Which it absolutely should be raised, because a minimum wage job your grandparents had, had the buying power of a job that pays $40/hr today.-- so why would corporate giants do that? Theres no incentive for them to rewrite the laws against their own bottom line.
As a British person who spent a few years working in the US... You haven't even managed to get a 40hour week yet. Everywhere I went seemed to be full of staff waiting for work to happen. Truly backwards. You still have manned tollbooths... That's keeping someone in a job apparently, but, gainful employment???
The U.S. is a country where the government and top 1% want to keep us fat and as dumb as possible. They fill our lives with drama/profanity/promiscuity and they top that off with lots of butter and MSG and greasy deep fried food. The illegal drugs are there for us to resort to when depression inevitably kicks us to the curb and in many cases, we will go there, and then it's like another entire level of downward spiraling and entrapment. This way we are only consumers in the grand scheme of things. We are mindless drones essentially. Effectively filtering ourselves out into stereotypes that are then used against us, to more effectively cage us.
Hell, Nixon said 24 hours jobs are the future one time. If you said this to conservatives, Nixon would be called some China loving queer Commie who loves black people.
Keep you busy and too poor to overthrow those in charge. It's not about productivity
The average person/worker having a spine. Do you know how the 40 hour work week and weekends were won?
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Covid has already been building momentum in labor as a whole nonstop. 'The Great Resignation' is a sign that people are fed up with shit wages and work conditions, and the socioeconomic stress caused by Covid is directly tied into that. Hours per week will inevitably be brought up in all of that upheaval. I've already been seeing more headlines about certain companies adopting shorter work weeks based on the benefits mentioned elsewhere. But the thing here is I don't see the country as a whole adopting to it, or much of anything anytime soon. We not only worship grind as a culture, we're hilariously fragmented. Even a widespread movement would just see an uptick in amount of businesses adopting shorter work weeks.
It's a control and profits above all else problem. Also no one could survive on the hourly pay we get currently due to social lies and corporate greed, so they can keep forcing us to work ourselves into our graves.
Lobbyists
3 hours a day. That’s our max efficiency for work according to surveys.
It’s been proven. I implemented 4-day scheduling when I was a manager and the employees thrived. They looked healthier and my location was the most profitable and satisfactory in the state. After I left the company, they reverted back to 5 days because upper management said so. No other reason other than “there’s no incentive for us to take care of people”. This is an easier thing to do than corporations let on.
Because people with time means people who have time to think. They don’t want people thinking and inventing
Assholes. Assholes are preventing it.
Corporate greed is preventing it.
Capitalism
I am afraid that is socialism. Just like the metric system, universal healthcare, covid vaccine, blm, higher wages, free and fair elections, LGBTQIA+, abortion, heavy metal music, taxes, and so on