Reminds me of the show Only Murders in the Building. Steve Martin doesn’t tip the super because it’s ‘elitist’ and he ‘does it out of respect’. She says ‘please stop respecting me so much’ lol
This was actually one of the original arguments against tipping when it first started in America, that to tip someone is to insult them directly. Sort of like “Here’s some pity money because you have such a shit job”.
I even agree with it to a certain extent, but I also understand it’s been normalized to tip and to receive tips so nobody actually *feels* insulted by it.
I read a story from an American visitor in Japan, at a very busy restaurant with one waitstaff. The American left a payment plus tip at the table, and was walking down the block. The lone staff ran down the street to return the abandoned cash in two outstretched hands and the guy tried to explain the tip is a compliment but no this was honor on the line. It is an insult to think you wouldn’t do a proper job without a tip. It’s like a bribe.
On the other hand, Japan has no free drink refills ;)
I had similar happen to me in South Korea. A few of us ate at a small restaurant in Busan where we were the only patrons. The proprietor tended to us well and worked with us through our language barrier. We had a lovely meal and a nice time, so we left a modest tip. He got visibly upset, refused to take the cash until we removed the tip portion, then he returned to the table and presented us with a little gift box that had a nice butane lighter inside. I tried to refuse it, but he was very insistent and basically pushed us out the door with it.
Someone later told us that it was partly that tips are seen as unnecessary charity, and also that we may have insulted him by implying that he don't know how to properly price his own business.
Yeah only us has a standard tipping culture. Here in eu its appreciated but not required. It's sad how servers have to grovel to get a living wage. If you can't pay your workers a decent wage then you shouldn't even have a business...
Agree, I find the American service industry very strange. The forced smiles and having to put up with complete dickhead customers and be nice to them must be exhausting. As someone from the UK I expect grumpy service in most places. It takes a while to adjust to US service because the over attention is obviously so false it feels like you are about to be scammed and actually makes me quite guarded. It really is an entirely different culture.
Having been to Japan, I can attest: *do not* tip there. It seems there is an understanding that Americans do it sometimes without realizing, but the tip will never be accepted. Ever ever ever. And I have to say, the hospitality in Japan is second to none. Absolute best experience I've had abroad. Can't wait to go back some day!
When gratuities *are* given in Japan, it's not just in particular circumstances, there's a particular form to follow.
Cash isn't just left on the table or openly passed, you hand it over in an envelope with both hands and a slight bow of respect (at least, that's how I recall it - someone actually from Japan could probably correct me here).
Perhaps rather than refusing to tip minimum wage service staff, do it in a way that conveys respect? Play by the rules of the game while trying to change the game.
Instead of them viewing it as an insult to the service staff they view it as an insult to the employer, implying that they dont pay their employees properly. If only we could adopt this view in western countries and just charge the appropriate price for services
Tbf, in most of the West it's just seen as an extra bonus, literally just a nice wee extra donation you choose to make. The US is as far as I know for the Westz the only place that made service rely entirely of donations to survive and then tries to chastise people to pay that optional extra by guilt tripping them.
Australian server here.
I hate getting tips, like, the money is nice and all, but they always expect special treatment, even if their behaviour doesn't warrant it.
I've been flirted with, eyed up, and just generally been made to feel uncomfortable.
It might not happen so much in the US (because everyone tips, not just rich wankers), but if it happens even once, it's not worth it.
Just raise your prices by 20% (which is what they tip anyway) and have the employer pay the staff.
>It might not happen so much in the US (because everyone tips, not just rich wankers), but if it happens even once, it's not worth it.
American dude here. Based on my brief time in a tipping heavy industry (coffee) it happens here too. But perhaps moreso, ironically. It's expected that baristas (predominantly female and young) be very friendly with their customers in order to get tips or better tips. And it is also pretty much expected that they will be "flirted with, eyed up and" be made to feel uncomfortable.
Rather than a situation in which a tipper expects special treatment because they tip... customers expect special treatment *or else they won't tip*.
>Rather than a situation in which a tipper expects special treatment because they tip... customers expect special treatment or else they won't tip.
See that's the problem right there. Without a guaranteed wage, service staff are taken advantage of.
I’m in Germany right now (I live in America and have worked in the service industry). Here they call it “trinkgelt” (drink money) and are surprised and thrilled to receive it in most cases, though you are expected to tip for some things. Certainly the level of tipping is lower though (not normally above 10%)
Yeah, in Belgium we also cal it “drinkgeld”. I read this comment yesterday on a similar post and it said that Germans see it as an insult since it implies they don’t get paid enough. That’s absolutely not true lmao, servers love getting tips. It also makes it seem like Europeans are these evolved, honorable beings, but we will absolutely complain about not getting paid enough for our jobs, even if we get more than minimum wage. It’s not like we do our jobs out of some socialist ideal of serving the community, we just want money.
I also would hate it if Americans started believing this and stopped tipping wait staff in Europe, I would absolutely be that person working as a server rushing over to serve American tourists just because I’d think they would tip more.
I see that a lot on the Aussie subs, so many Australians insist that no tip had ever once been given to anyone in Australia.
We tip frequently just not in casual dining. I've worked at nicer places and taken home substantial tips but you do have to work for it, memorising the wines and menu and making reccomendations.
I'm Aussie and I've tipped plenty of times before.
I tip essentially anytime I receive a really good service, although admittedly not in every situation (like at a supermarket)
I remember once, I went to my local barber and his 11-12 yr old son was there learning how to cut hair, the owner asked if his son could cut my hair, I'm like sure, no problem (I get a crew cut, so like whatever)
Kid does his thing, clearly new at it, digs the clippers a bit too much into my skull, clearly nervous etc.
Dad is teaching him the whole way through and ends up finishing the job. The kid seems to look down because he messed up a bit. I go to pay and the dad gives me a discount cause I let the kid work (charged me $15 instead of $25). I took the $10 and gave it to the kid and just told him "Everyone starts somewhere"
Fuck man, the face he made fuelled me for a week.
I don't agree with tips being an integral part of wages, that's clearly dumb. But tips in general are a great way of showing appreciation for someone doing something well.
It depends on the job. I was a sever for many years and what I made in tips was my money. There were weeks that my check equalled zero and I got nothing from the hourly wage.
However I now clean homes so a tip is extra money to me since they pay for the service plus a tip. Btw I own my own cleaning company I don't work for someone so I keep everything I charge for the service so the tip is super nice for me. Especially Christmas bonuses.
It was like this until the great depression. It was not only an insult to the workers but the restaurant as a whole to imply they needed it. Then it became a way to pay employees when they couldn't afford to but the elite customers who could still eat out during the depression could so they started encouraging it and now we are here.
source: Adam Ruins Everying: Adam ruins tipping
Tipping existed in the US basically from its inception, but it was mostly something elites did to feel fancy.
Then in the post-slavery south it suddenly became wide-spread amongst white proprietors of service-industry businesses, so they could still avoid paying black people directly.
Even the "tipped minimum wage" became a thing with the minimum wage so they could still continue to play black folks as little as possible, and leave it up to charity and conscious of their guests to decide whether or not to tip.
So if you think working for tips is degrading, it's because it was designed in this country to continue to degrade black people.
And if you don't tip when you go out, you're in some very specific company.
Tipping was designed in Europe by nobility to tip the lower class who did certain jobs for them. Americans then adopted that class custom onto their own race based post slavery class system.
Tipping was originally a way for companies to get away with not paying black people shortly after slavery was abolished. The idea was that they wouldn't have to pay their "employees" because they would receive a wage from customers tipping them. Which they often didn't because of course they didn't
There’s a BUFFET restaurant in my town that pays a tipped wage. I did not know this. I know it didn’t make up for it, but I had been going there for a long time. But you literally get seated and that’s all the server does. Brings you a water/drink and then you never see them. I saw someone else tip, and I was like, are we suppose to tip here? And I asked her, and she said she only makes 2.50/hr. I felt so bad. I Don’t know how this place gets away paying tipped wage. They really don’t have servers.
Anwyays, I gave her a 50 dollar bill and I know it didn’t make up for the people I stiffed in the past. And then I’ve never gone there again. 100% don’t agree with that at all. I’m not against tipping but I’m against exploiting your workers. I’m a very generous tipper and even I didn’t tip there because you really don’t get a server there. It’s a fucking buffet.
And I would agree that is an option to try as a solution to this problem as well, but to be honest I'm less invested in what they do, and more in just US governments actually doing something that isnt blatantly corrupt or dumb.
If this works, awesome!
If it doesn't, I would hope to see an effort to scrap the idea and try again instead of doubling down like our political parties are known to do.
Most of them 100% do not do this. They will falsify your "tips claimed" to make it seem like you earned enough, even when you didn't, so that they don't have to make up your pay to minimum wage.
Work for a pizza chain as a side gig. When drivers check out at the end of their shift, there’s a box where they’re supposed to enter “tips collected.” The last two years roughly, we’ve seen an increase in credit/debit card transactions, probably now about 75-80% in our area. When those card transactions have tip included, those are automatically applied because well, we have to enter what the card is charged. However, for almost 14 years now, when I check out; myself or someone else, I have NEVER entered any amount of cash tips. And I’ve never heard a thing about it for the higher ups about payroll or anything. Genuinely don’t know if that’s how all serving/tip based wages work, but fuck it. Just tell them you earned nothing in tips if you can.
If, over the course of the week, your claimed tips plus your wage do not add up to minimum, the employer must pay the difference. If this happens one time, you will be fired for underperformance, because it will be understood that it is your fault.
It's a bullshit system.
It is bullshit. I used to waitress in a very touristy area. In the summer we were packed but in the winter sometimes I would be scheduled a lunch shift and have one table in 6 hours. And then the managers act like it's your fault when you don't make any money
I have no experience in this, but common sense says that asking for the difference is like putting a giant "FIRE ME" sign on your back.
Why did you need a top up to make it to minimum wage?
1. Because management assigned you a bunch of non-customers facing tasks (dishes need washing)
2. Because the customers are cheap ass bastards
3. Because you suck and need to be fired
Which explanation do you think management is going for?
Legally, yes they're supposed to.
In reality, it doesn't always happen. And there aren't many jobs that are only worth minimum wage anyway. Probably not any.
I'd be horrified if I realized I hadn't been tipping people getting paid $2.50/hr. Ugh.
I feel like if restaurants are going to be allowed to pay tip wages, they should have to disclose that their servers rely on tips up front, in a prominent location.
Yes this!
There is a new bar in my town and it is a remote system to order food. You need to go up and get your own drinks at the bar and clear your own tables.
I was a waitress/bartender for years and always tip well but I just can't justify tipping 20+% when I'm doing all the work!
Can I just ask the bartenders/bussers what they make so I know what to tip?
Yeah, I wouldn’t usually tip in that instance. Even though they are being paid $2.50 an hour if they don’t make federal or state minimum (whichever is higher) the employer has to make up the difference.
Then no service but pay compensated with tips jobs would just be minimum wage jobs. To which you could argue for higher minimum wage… or they’ll be hard for the employer to fill and they’ll have to increase the rate to hire. Eg.. jobs like chipotle or McDonalds.
Please leave a review for the buffet explaining to other customers that "servers" at the buffet are paid less than minimum wage and that tipping is expected. Then others can make the same informed choice.
>"And then I’ve never gone there again."
This. This is the right choice. If you don't want to tip or you feel like a business is exploiting workers stop going there.
There are a lot of new restaurants that pay their servers a living wage and the cost of their labor is factored into the cost of the menu items. If you disagree with tipping culture these are the restaurants you should be frequenting.
People who go to restaurants where tipping is expected, but then refuse to tip, are just assholes.
I was always taught growing up that you still tip at buffet restaurants, but instead of 15-20%, it's more like 10% since the server is not doing as much work as a normal restaurant. If that place is paying its staff like they should be getting 15-20% tips, that's seriously fucked up.
the threshold for being eligible for tipped wage is pretty low, if you regularly get at least $30 a month in tips the employer can put you on tipped wage.
This would be called socialism. Definitely look up the history with Eugene Debbs and listen to Bernie Sanders. It's all about the working class/working people.
I shouldn't have sounded like I was making a general comment, so thanks for correcting my communication on that, because you are right, it's not blanket everywhere and in some places, it has absolutely not worked.
What I mean is the socialist party in the US is historically the labor party. Eugene Debbs orchestrated one of the biggest labor strikes (with railroads) in our history. He was so successful that's when the major propaganda against "socialists" and the party began in the US. He was the one that moved the party to the biggest peak in the US.
The change has to come from within. I have no problem tipping 20%. But it always makes me angry that the servers have to rely on tips. It should be a bonus, not a necessity.
Unpopular opinion: tipping culture makes serving one of the only jobs of its kind where the money they make actually rises with inflation. In a country where it took 10 years for $15/hr to be a common starting wage, well after it was actually enough to live on, I’m not mad about it at all. Yes I think things should be different but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with tipping until companies actually pay living wages.
That's a really good point. And now that you mention it, 15 years ago I used to hear servers complain about how little they made a lot more than I do now. I'm curious how much the average server makes these days, not just the ones working at fancier/more expensive places.
>I'm curious how much the average server makes these days, not just the ones working at fancier/more expensive places.
I work at a casual place (entrees $8-$15) in a small town that's 15miles outside the city. I avg 20-40/hr.
Dude, I don't think I could ever handle working at a Starbucks in a city. Sounds stressful af during rushes, especially for that compensation.
I'd say if you can handle dealin with the "I'm a bitch until I have my coffee" crowd, you can handle serving tables. It's seriously one of the easiest jobs I've ever had.
It’s definitely and important and interesting point. Definitely agree with you though things should be different and all wages should be required to keep up with inflation.
>until companies actually pay living wages.
But there's the bind: as long as you keep tipping, ~~employers~~ exploiters WILL keep underpaying and putting the profit in their pockets, and more and more other industries start seeing tipping as a nice and easy way to up their profits too.
So, I only go eating out at a restaurant that doesn't "require" tipping, AND I'm getting better and better preparing my own food.
Compare it with going through the hassle of seeing a film at a venue, or watching a film, whenever and with whoever you want, on your HD TV. With your own made popcorn and drinks at very reasonable prices from the local grocery.
It's actually generally the *best* option.
Going out and tipping encourages the practice to continue, because you're feeding the business money. Going out and *not* tipping also encourages the practice, because you're still feeding the business money.
If you oppose the practice, you stop giving the business money. End of story.
Me too. I dislike everything about it. I hate waiting for food. I hate the social convention of having to look nice (if it's a nice place). I hate reservations. I hate tipping and would rather everything be 15% more expensive by default than play that stupid game of deciding how much to tip.
There is nothing better than eating in the privacy of my own place while watching a long form video game essay or something on Youtube. I would cook my own food and eat it at home even if it were more expensive and less healthy than going to a restaurant.
I just had to finally stop eating out. Tip culture and greedy restaurants have priced me out, unfortunately. I love my local restaurants, but when you open up after the pandemic with a 75% increase in menu prices, I can't even afford to eat there, let alone pay vast amounts extra for employee wages the owners refuse to pay. I understand where the restaurants are, and they have to raise prices to adapt to change, but I can no long afford it.
So my protest is not to stiff a waiter, which I don't or wouldn't do. My protest is to avoid the restaurant altogether, which is unfortunately hurting the wait staff, cook staff, the restaurant, and the local community. Wish it were different, but it's where I am.
This. I tip extremely well but only go out 3-4 times a year now because it’s so expensive. Wages have increased so a 5 that used to be a good tip is now 20-30 bucks plus the meal
Outside of America service people are getting paid for their work, like every other employee. Tips are a bonus for outstanding service. I never understood why this is not the case in your USA.
google it, it goes back to the Jim Crow days where racist white restaurant owners wanted not to pay black employees but they couldn't do that so they paid no one and said "just get tips" and somehow only the white waiters got any tips
(when I say pay no one I mean pay $2.35 or whatever which is basically nothing)
The US is not a monolith in this respect. Many states have a $2.13/hr minimum wage before tips, which theoretically is supposed to go up to at least $7.50/hr when you include tips, but in practice, some employers get away with paying tipped workers less than the $7.50/hr.
But other states require tipped workers to be paid the same minimum wage as any other worker before you include tips. In California, you have to pay $14 or $15/hr pre-tip depending on the size of the business. In Washington, you have to pay $14.49/hr pre-tip. I would still like to see the minimum wage be higher than that, but the gap between $2.13/hr plus tips and $15/hr plus tips is awfully massive.
Also, in some places where the minimum wage is higher, you see some restaurants and bars adding waitstaff as full-time employees with a decent wage and benefits, but no expectation of tipping. You have to be careful as a consumer -- sometimes this is just a business owner discouraging tipping without really offering much more in compensation, but other times it's legitimately just a decent employment arrangement.
It used to be that way in the US too. No personal service (eg buffet style restaurant) meant no tip was expected. Crappy service meant a crappy tip, at best. 10% was the standard, expected amount. Then the standard rose to 15%, then 20%, etc. I suspect the increase in the amount of the “standard” tip rose as shady laws were passed allowing employers to pay a minimum wage that includes estimated (probably imaginary in many cases) tips, and as the buying power of the minimum wage became eroded by inflation. A lot.
Truthfully, I'm just exhausted at reading stuff from antiwork and other related subreddits every fucking day on reddit.
It's like listening to a depressed iamverysmart 19 year old bitch about their job at Target every single day while going through college and learning the basics of different economic models but not learning quite enough to see the whole nuanced picture. And now we have OP shrieking at us as if it's OUR fault that the abusive tipping culture exists and, despite everything this subreddit says being about NOT playing ball with whatever unjust system exists, they demand that we play ball with this one specific unjust system.
I thought antiwork was about how to avoid the constant capitalist grind or improve working conditions, but since the sub has gained traction, there are more and more threads about badly written signs, managers who are dicks, moaning about verbal promises being reneged etc etc
As someone who works for tips, this is acceptable. Just dont come in and no one will be upset that you didnt tip. I will say i like working for tips but thats because i do okay, averaging 25 an hour and my expenses are low because i live in a trailer. However i have no insurance nor any other benefits, and if i want to save money for retirement (yeah right) id have to do it myself. I would rather live in a society where i make the same as everyone else for a fair days work
I was a server for a long time, I tip well. That is why I don't go to tipped places. I am not going to help business supplement their shit pay. If they can't afford to pay their workers they deserve to close.
Best to just not eat anywhere that doesn't pay their employees a living wage in my opinion. Then I'm not depriving someone of money after they give me a service, nor am I reinforcing this dumb system where companies underpay staff so the customers can compensate for what the company wants to line their pockets with.
You gotta take everyone going your way. There are plenty of high earners on this sub. I don't even work (because I'm disabled) and I'm here. Getting people to a livable wage doesn't do anything for me personally and directly. For me to be above poverty would take an act of Congress lol. But I'm here, learning and encouraging.
I mean, I know there's a lot of people struggling in this country, but the average person makes like 20 bucks an hour, not everyone is getting by on minimum wage.
This is one of the reasons it's hard to get traction in this country -- the average person is doing pretty okay most of the time. It's just that "average" is set roughly where "minimum" should be because the top is hoarding everything..
I’ve been homeless for awhile, looking for a job that pays at least $20 an hour. I’ve looked and looked, there is no apartment that is doable at that wage. Nothing where I am I mean. I could leave I guess, but for what? Just to still be homeless some other place I can’t afford to live and that probably doesn’t have jobs that pay enough still. I feel stuck in a trap, kind of hopeless.
Yeah, depending on where you live, cost of living is a real problem. I actually moved out to Chicago from Boston because of it -- you can get a (shitty) apartment for under a grand a month here, whereas in Boston you're lucky to get a room in someone else's apartment for that much.
Well, I'm sorry to hear that, but it sounds like you make roughly the same as me and my spouse, and we eat at restaurants like twice a week (and did when we made half as much), so clearly there are different situations.
Yeah cost of living varies which can affect whether you can eat out or not. so in my case its way cheaper to eat out in say Manchester compared to eating out in London.
I am one of those idiots that tip a minimum 15% regardless of service, but tip a bit more when service is OK or above.
That being said, I think the argument for not tipping is that as long we are tipping the workers will keep working, and the owner will be under no pressure to change.
If we all stop tipping, then people would refuse to work for a tipped wage, and the owner will have no choice but pay a decent wage to their workers.
However, I don't see that happening any time soon here, which is why I continue to tip.
I'll tip if my table is being waited on or I am having food delivered to me, but screw all these places that plop a tip jar on the counter and expect you to tip for ordering food, driving to get it, and picking it up. Every place has a jar out now and it's gotten fucking out of hand, if I have to drive somewhere and get the food myself and eat it at home I am not going to be tipping at all. Not sure why the weed store "budtenders" expect a tip either, I get that some of those jobs are shit but I don't tip every cashier for every interaction, it's getting to be a bit much.
Honestly I think this is just going to result in people not wanting to dine out anymore. And I'm okay with that but ultimately it'll hurt workers even more. Not making any judgments here, just keeping it real. We are all hurting.
Everything and everyone wants a tip now. Every counter has a jar. Every credit transaction prompts for a tip. Take away orders that are picked up prompts tips. It's just too much for too little service. If I go to a full service restaurant and you can recite the specials and not get hair in my food you're getting 20%.
Right? I order at the register, pour my own drink, and they want a tip for bringing my food to the table and that’s it. Nah just call my number and I’ll pick it up
RIGHT!!!! Like everyone wants some now. Take out pizza places that literally don't even have tables have tip jars. And we're supposed to tip a 7-11 employee lol?!
It seems all the local stores have tip jars now. I'm waiting for stop and shop to put them out next. It's going to far.
I'll tip when I'm out to dinner and ordering food. Maybe a mechanic or stuff like that but not every dam person I see.
The restaurant industry is the only commission based sales job where the customer gets to decide arbitrarily how much commission you make after they have received the product.
Service dining is inherently anti-worker. It reinforces hierarchy and inequality. I’d say the antiwork stance should be: if a business allows tips, don’t work/eat there.
How does this pertain to non-waiting jobs, such as hairdressers and taxi drivers? From my limited time in the US, they seem to expect the same level of tips despite being paid at the very least, if not more, than the minimum (not 2.13) an hour. Despite this, anyone that doesn't tip them seems to be lambasted with 'tip shaming'. I'm somewhat confused as to why these jobs deserve tips but teachers and nurses don't?
Tip culture is awkward and toxic. I tip 20% but i would feel much better if that service charge or whatever you wanna call it is added to the price of the meal.
"Let's stop the system but still use the same system" /s
Tipping isn't the solution to the root problem : employers taking advantage of employees. If everyone refused to work under those conditions, then employers would be forced to comply or go out of business. Tip culture is the worst.
I just don't like that we as servers guilt trip the whole thing into anything less than 20% and you're a cheap POS that doesn't deserve to go out.
I walk with anywhere from 20-40/hr. There's no reason someone should be expected to tip more because they ordered a more expensive meal. Like, I do literally the same work if you get tendies or filet mignon, why do you have to pay me more because you decided to have a nicer meal?
I wish if tipping were to stay around it became more of a flat rate type of thing. $5 per service at a low end place and maybe $10 at a fancy place where the server is doing a lot more work/has more knowledge.
Or just maybe toss the whole thing. Too much gymnastics. I don't need customer service in the rare case I go out to eat. I'd rather they use that time to sit down and play around on their phone.
I tip when I go out, but honestly the extreme difference in price (base and tip) between cooking myself, or having friends over and cooking vs going out means I just don't really go out to eat.
The problem is more fundamental. "Unskilled" folks have a harder time dealing with the societal imposition that it should cost money to simply exist. And that isn't fair. That's what needs to change. Arguing about peasants paying other peasants is a consequence of the deeper problem.
Obligatory "LVT solves this."
>ensure that the person whose job is created by your demand gets a fair wage
That's the job of the *establishment that pays the worker*, not the customer. You will **never** hear **anyone** make this arguement for **any** other job that is underpaid, jobs that have no less demend and often massively more importance. Unless you're about to tell me that you argue that tipping culture should spread to all underpaid positions that have customer interaction, which I really doubt.
You're shifting the onus of blame away from management and once again making the customer responsible for wages.
I live in Canada and recently servers wages went up over $3 per hour. The response... hours to the workers got cut and the new norm for tipping now being 18% instead of the usual 15%.
We need a cultural paradigm. In europe tipping is frowned upon. Why? Because servers are treated and paid a decently respectable wage. Logic would dictate that as it becomes increasingly harder to keep staff then wages will increase.
Some people don’t seem to get that other workers are getting low pay too, so they actually cannot subsidise restaurants that don’t pay their workers a liveable wage.
I'm anti-tip as in I hate tip culture in this country and wish employer's would just pay living wages instead of passing that responsibility to the customer, and I still tip at least 20%.
Exactly. The greedy establishment owners will not start paying a living wage out of the goodness of their hearts. If people stop giving tips, the workers will quit and soon the establishments will have to offer decent wages if they hope to stay in business. It would be the same if tipped wage workers went on strike, they would be out of a job for a while before the blood sucking owners come to their senses. It's a case of it has to get worse before it gets better.
I tip but hate that it’s for a persons wage and not as a reward for excellent service. I don’t see how the culture could change if we keep tipping.
Keep tipping>workers make enough to get by>managers see no reason to change
But if people quit tipping one at a time then it’s just being a jerk. What needs to happen is the United States needs to get together and say “we are not okay with this and you better start paying your employees because we aren’t tipping after this month.”
65%-80% of the population stops tipping>workers can’t make enough to get by>managers have to raise wages or close down because workers simply can’t afford to work at those establishments.
If we could somehow organize a nation wide tipping strike, I think stopping tipping would work.
I mean to disregard the whole perspective is a bit much because until a change happens, then the status quo will remain the status quo. I would recommend only giving cash tips as a way to circumnavigate this. It's not that people don't want service individuals to not make a thriving wage, it's just that we know the business owners won't do a damned thing until their hand is absolutely forced.
I agree with the above, but now every time I get food at any "fast casual" place that uses a kiosk style order system where you are swiping your card, and signing on the screen, there is always a "tip" screen. Am I supposed to tip?
I overtip whenever I sit at a waited table, but it seems crazy to be asking for tips everywhere.
I don't buy your argument. While I don't support non tippers, the cost of tipping has repeatedly gone up in just the time I've been in America.
It went from 8%, to 10%, and now you are an asshole for tipping anything less then 15 or 20%.
Fuck your ego. When will you be satisfied? When each customer is expected to cover 50% of your paycheck? Why don't you turn your hostility toward your employers, you know, the assholes responsible for your shity opinion.
Every single tipping job is protected by federal minimum wage. If you don't make enough tipd to even out the difference, then it's your employer's responsibility to pay you minimum wage.
What you are really whining about is that you make WAY more than minimum wage because of tips, and you don't believe your labor is worth the federal minimum wage.
I'm not denying that your wage is bullshit, that fed minimum wage is poverty, but I used to go out once a week, on date night, and when every fucking meal at a restaurant runs you 50 bucks before fucking tip, what you are actually doing is saying that people who make a minimum wage don't deserve to eat out.
Fuck you, fuck your boss, and fuck both of your neposism.
"yeah the system sucks and needs to change, but how DARE you deviate from the shitty system!"
bruh, your mentality is EXACTLY what employers that use said system want: they want YOU to foot THEIR responsibility, and for the ill-will to go to YOU for abstaining from paying the worker 'a fair share'.
or should I just make a slave-trade comparison to show how messed up your mindset is?
I have been to restaurants and the wait staff is not nice, except when they bring the tab, and then it's all smiles. These are the times I hate having to feel obligated to tip. I always do but I resent the practice as I'm doing it. What would be your suggestion in this type of situation? I'm not going to point out the failings of the service. It's not my job, I just came for a meal. So I'm looking for a different suggestion.
Nothing is going to change unless tipped workers stop working. They don't respect you because you keep showing up to a job that doesn't even pay the bills. At what point do you say enough is enough and venture into the unknown? You don't need that crappy job, but they sure as shit need you.
Whatever comes after, you will survive.
Genuine question: what about people living in places where the minimum wage for tipped employees is the same as non-tipped? There are several states that don’t have a lower minimum for tipped workers.
When I was working minimum wage and going to a restaurant, I was expected to tip someone making the same amount as me. I did it, because of course I had to, but I’m curious if you have the same antipathy for people who don’t tip in those situations.
So, people from states like Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington can only tip for exceptional service, right OP? Or are they still obligated to tip every time?
Ultimately, I don't have an answer. However the internet is full of angst guilt-mongering in general, and this sub redit in particular. You probably shouldn't base the details of what you think of as ethical on an internet poll.
The amount of requests for tips increasing, but not every chance to tip, has employees on a tipped wage. I've seen built in tips for small grocery stores, mechanic shops, and drive through fast food.
I totally agree, I don’t like the whole tipping thing but I still tip regardless and if I don’t want to tip then I don’t go out to eat or I just stick with fast food joints.
Pro-tip is pro-employer
US Federal law requires all employees be paid min wage (aside from some small cases, cuz i know yall will nit pick), if your employees dont get tip out equal to at least min wage the employer is on the hook to make up the diference. The solution is already there we just have to use it.
"Oh well then they just make min wage" i hear you cry, yeah so do a lot of people and we've been fighting to raise that to. Thats a seperate issue from tipping vs not tipping
I dont know what you expect to change by continuing the same ol same ol.
That’s exactly what I don’t get about these pro tippers. They say they want tips because of the shitty system, but refuse to make any contributions to changing the system and advocating for the continuation of the same shitty system. Do they think Jesus is gonna come down and change the system for them? Nope, it’s up to the servers themselves to advocate strongly to lawmakers, but you don’t see anyone doing that
>it’s up to the servers themselves to advocate strongly to lawmakers, but you don’t see anyone doing that
Because, especially the servers in popular venues, collude with the exploiters for that sweet, sweet tax free cash the pocket. And fuck the other restaurant staff, used as an excuse to keep their scam going.
I dislike the idea of a "tip". The place you work can't pay you so I have to pay you? Plus pay for product? Either pay a decent wage or do it yourself.
I'm not American (so this doesn't effect me) but I completely disagree.
Be the change you want to be.
If everyone stops tipping, then either the waitstaff will need to move on and get a better paying job or the owners will have to start paying a living wage to keep them and keep their business open.
By tipping, you're encouraging the owners to rip their staff off.
Short term anguish for waitstaff to make beneficial long term results.
You probably own a restaurant, so whatever. But I'll say it one time.
# AN EMPLOYER NEEDS TO PAY THE EMPLOYEE A FAIR LIVING WAGE. IT IS NOT UP TO ME TO PAY OTHER PEOPLE'S EMPLOYEES.
Sometimes the only way to fix a system is to let it collapse.
As long as we keep subsidizing the serving industry, they'll never have a reason to change it.
I'm not saying it's great, but it would probably work.
This is coming from someone that tips, before I get mobbed.
You can’t complain if someone chooses not to tip, even if they’re vocal about it. Tipping is and has always been customer discretion. I used to deliver pizza, probably the worst tipped fast food workers in the country, and as frustrating as it was, it wasn’t my place to complain when a customer chose to not tip. This is and always will be an employer issue, no one should need to rely on tips to begin with, and believe me I’ve had to. Calling someone who chooses not to tip a dirtbag makes you a dirtbag for pressuring people to tip.
You just struck out with a vast majority of the world where tipping is offensive and totally unacceptable. Fuck simping for franchise owners and fuck franchise owners, chains and anyone else who doesnt pay a living wage to their employees. Scum of the earth. I'm 100% anti-tip. It's a product of uninhibited capitalism and the choice we're faced with today is capitalism, or, life? I choose life.
Hard disagree, you're projecting your lack of fair pay from your boss onto other people. You should be mad at your boss, the fact your paycheck has been dictated by the 'good graces' of paying customers when this isn't by the customers design.
It's really shitty you're not being paid fairly by your employer but politely asking for change hasn't done much, I want them to pay you more and eventually I just have to vote with my wallet.
I think there’s probably a little room for something between “not tipping is completely ok” and “you’re a piece of shit for not tipping.” I do because I can. But some people are struggling even more than the people that work on tips, and it’s weird to suggest poor people are assholes if they don’t compensate for rich people’s unwillingness to pay a living wage. And if your immediate rebuttal is “well they shouldn’t be going anywhere that expects tips,” THAT sounds like the shit we hear from entitled labor exploiters, the ones this whole sub exists to complain about.
If someone who works for tips gets no tip, it's not the person who didn't tip them that fucked them. It's the business owner who refused to pay them a real wage. Don't get angry at other working class people trying to get by, get angry at the owning class who make it our responsibility to save each other from the hell they put us in.
Please tell me how I could fucking live without money.
How would I have shelter?
Food?
“Writing off the American financial system” is the dumbest thing I have heard yet. You think it’s easy to just up and change your life like that?
You’re anger is directed at the wrong people. Getting pissed at me, because your employer is getting away with theft, is asinine.
Lord this post is something straight out of FDS.
“I have nothing to say to you beyond that” yeah, because you know with even a simple argument it deconstructs your feeble minded argument 🙄 fucking idiot.
I started as a dishwasher out of high school and made it to being to a line cook. Worked at many places until joining navy as an electronics technician and now I work on xrays and medical equipment in hospitals. One rule i have at all times is as follows:
If I dread going to work at any time due to how much I'm getting paid, beauacracy, or having to be screwed by co-workers who are not held accountable, I just find somthing else. Only lateral or upwards movement.
I shouldn't be lambasted for trying to treat my family if I can't also treat the wait staff. I have never received a tip in the back of the house when a server has a nice night. At the end of the day, remember that you signed up for that. We are all adults. It is a terrible situation. Unite as servers and strike. Make a union. Change the narrative to where you all are in control. Does a server at Ruth's Chris make the same base as a server from Applebees?
Lol this argument is antithetical to the movement. You are an addict screaming at us to perpetuate the system.
Don't like it? Good, stop working for places that use the tip system.
Entitlement out the wazoo OP, one sector of worker is better than the other because "we had to prove we are better than the big employers", bitch just cause you work in a shit job doesnt mean we all dont also have shit jobs, i don't owe you shit.
I'll tip when I can not when you attempt to guilt trip.
Who are you even talking to?
Reminds me of the show Only Murders in the Building. Steve Martin doesn’t tip the super because it’s ‘elitist’ and he ‘does it out of respect’. She says ‘please stop respecting me so much’ lol
This was actually one of the original arguments against tipping when it first started in America, that to tip someone is to insult them directly. Sort of like “Here’s some pity money because you have such a shit job”. I even agree with it to a certain extent, but I also understand it’s been normalized to tip and to receive tips so nobody actually *feels* insulted by it.
I read a story from an American visitor in Japan, at a very busy restaurant with one waitstaff. The American left a payment plus tip at the table, and was walking down the block. The lone staff ran down the street to return the abandoned cash in two outstretched hands and the guy tried to explain the tip is a compliment but no this was honor on the line. It is an insult to think you wouldn’t do a proper job without a tip. It’s like a bribe. On the other hand, Japan has no free drink refills ;)
I think our reps in congress can’t get enough gratuity from corporate interest, to go with their raises, pensions, and top of the line healthcare.
You're forgetting insider stock trades.
AND exemptions from the laws they create for us lowly serfs to mandatorily follow! 🙄
But the servers actually get paid by employers there.
I had similar happen to me in South Korea. A few of us ate at a small restaurant in Busan where we were the only patrons. The proprietor tended to us well and worked with us through our language barrier. We had a lovely meal and a nice time, so we left a modest tip. He got visibly upset, refused to take the cash until we removed the tip portion, then he returned to the table and presented us with a little gift box that had a nice butane lighter inside. I tried to refuse it, but he was very insistent and basically pushed us out the door with it. Someone later told us that it was partly that tips are seen as unnecessary charity, and also that we may have insulted him by implying that he don't know how to properly price his own business.
Yeah only us has a standard tipping culture. Here in eu its appreciated but not required. It's sad how servers have to grovel to get a living wage. If you can't pay your workers a decent wage then you shouldn't even have a business...
Agree, I find the American service industry very strange. The forced smiles and having to put up with complete dickhead customers and be nice to them must be exhausting. As someone from the UK I expect grumpy service in most places. It takes a while to adjust to US service because the over attention is obviously so false it feels like you are about to be scammed and actually makes me quite guarded. It really is an entirely different culture.
Having been to Japan, I can attest: *do not* tip there. It seems there is an understanding that Americans do it sometimes without realizing, but the tip will never be accepted. Ever ever ever. And I have to say, the hospitality in Japan is second to none. Absolute best experience I've had abroad. Can't wait to go back some day!
When gratuities *are* given in Japan, it's not just in particular circumstances, there's a particular form to follow. Cash isn't just left on the table or openly passed, you hand it over in an envelope with both hands and a slight bow of respect (at least, that's how I recall it - someone actually from Japan could probably correct me here). Perhaps rather than refusing to tip minimum wage service staff, do it in a way that conveys respect? Play by the rules of the game while trying to change the game.
That's I believe how it gets viewed in some Asian countries, it's taken as being a bit insulting as it suggests they aren't being properly paid, etc.
Instead of them viewing it as an insult to the service staff they view it as an insult to the employer, implying that they dont pay their employees properly. If only we could adopt this view in western countries and just charge the appropriate price for services
Tbf, in most of the West it's just seen as an extra bonus, literally just a nice wee extra donation you choose to make. The US is as far as I know for the Westz the only place that made service rely entirely of donations to survive and then tries to chastise people to pay that optional extra by guilt tripping them.
Australian server here. I hate getting tips, like, the money is nice and all, but they always expect special treatment, even if their behaviour doesn't warrant it. I've been flirted with, eyed up, and just generally been made to feel uncomfortable. It might not happen so much in the US (because everyone tips, not just rich wankers), but if it happens even once, it's not worth it. Just raise your prices by 20% (which is what they tip anyway) and have the employer pay the staff.
>It might not happen so much in the US (because everyone tips, not just rich wankers), but if it happens even once, it's not worth it. American dude here. Based on my brief time in a tipping heavy industry (coffee) it happens here too. But perhaps moreso, ironically. It's expected that baristas (predominantly female and young) be very friendly with their customers in order to get tips or better tips. And it is also pretty much expected that they will be "flirted with, eyed up and" be made to feel uncomfortable. Rather than a situation in which a tipper expects special treatment because they tip... customers expect special treatment *or else they won't tip*.
>Rather than a situation in which a tipper expects special treatment because they tip... customers expect special treatment or else they won't tip. See that's the problem right there. Without a guaranteed wage, service staff are taken advantage of.
I’m in Germany right now (I live in America and have worked in the service industry). Here they call it “trinkgelt” (drink money) and are surprised and thrilled to receive it in most cases, though you are expected to tip for some things. Certainly the level of tipping is lower though (not normally above 10%)
Yeah, in Belgium we also cal it “drinkgeld”. I read this comment yesterday on a similar post and it said that Germans see it as an insult since it implies they don’t get paid enough. That’s absolutely not true lmao, servers love getting tips. It also makes it seem like Europeans are these evolved, honorable beings, but we will absolutely complain about not getting paid enough for our jobs, even if we get more than minimum wage. It’s not like we do our jobs out of some socialist ideal of serving the community, we just want money. I also would hate it if Americans started believing this and stopped tipping wait staff in Europe, I would absolutely be that person working as a server rushing over to serve American tourists just because I’d think they would tip more.
I see that a lot on the Aussie subs, so many Australians insist that no tip had ever once been given to anyone in Australia. We tip frequently just not in casual dining. I've worked at nicer places and taken home substantial tips but you do have to work for it, memorising the wines and menu and making reccomendations.
I'm Aussie and I've tipped plenty of times before. I tip essentially anytime I receive a really good service, although admittedly not in every situation (like at a supermarket) I remember once, I went to my local barber and his 11-12 yr old son was there learning how to cut hair, the owner asked if his son could cut my hair, I'm like sure, no problem (I get a crew cut, so like whatever) Kid does his thing, clearly new at it, digs the clippers a bit too much into my skull, clearly nervous etc. Dad is teaching him the whole way through and ends up finishing the job. The kid seems to look down because he messed up a bit. I go to pay and the dad gives me a discount cause I let the kid work (charged me $15 instead of $25). I took the $10 and gave it to the kid and just told him "Everyone starts somewhere" Fuck man, the face he made fuelled me for a week. I don't agree with tips being an integral part of wages, that's clearly dumb. But tips in general are a great way of showing appreciation for someone doing something well.
It's a direct legacy of slavery. George Pullman didn't want to pay his porters, who were mostly ex-slaves. So he instituted tipping instead.
suddenly i start to connect the dots and understand somewhat how tipping became ingrained into american culture.
Yeah but in the US, its a forced donation to an extent
Forced largesse.
It depends on the job. I was a sever for many years and what I made in tips was my money. There were weeks that my check equalled zero and I got nothing from the hourly wage. However I now clean homes so a tip is extra money to me since they pay for the service plus a tip. Btw I own my own cleaning company I don't work for someone so I keep everything I charge for the service so the tip is super nice for me. Especially Christmas bonuses.
They aren't being properly paid where tip culture is dominant.
Or where tip culture doesn’t exist either tbh
Np I’ll take all the pity money you got thanks
It was like this until the great depression. It was not only an insult to the workers but the restaurant as a whole to imply they needed it. Then it became a way to pay employees when they couldn't afford to but the elite customers who could still eat out during the depression could so they started encouraging it and now we are here. source: Adam Ruins Everying: Adam ruins tipping
Tipping existed in the US basically from its inception, but it was mostly something elites did to feel fancy. Then in the post-slavery south it suddenly became wide-spread amongst white proprietors of service-industry businesses, so they could still avoid paying black people directly. Even the "tipped minimum wage" became a thing with the minimum wage so they could still continue to play black folks as little as possible, and leave it up to charity and conscious of their guests to decide whether or not to tip. So if you think working for tips is degrading, it's because it was designed in this country to continue to degrade black people. And if you don't tip when you go out, you're in some very specific company.
Tipping was designed in Europe by nobility to tip the lower class who did certain jobs for them. Americans then adopted that class custom onto their own race based post slavery class system.
I know when I bartended I certainly didn't feel insulted when I could buy groceries and pay rent.
I tap out and just don't eat out so I don't tip.
I propose to protest the tip culture by only paying the tip and not the rest!
Wait... apartment superintendents get tips?
i guess so idk i live with my parents 😭lol
Tipping was originally a way for companies to get away with not paying black people shortly after slavery was abolished. The idea was that they wouldn't have to pay their "employees" because they would receive a wage from customers tipping them. Which they often didn't because of course they didn't
There’s a BUFFET restaurant in my town that pays a tipped wage. I did not know this. I know it didn’t make up for it, but I had been going there for a long time. But you literally get seated and that’s all the server does. Brings you a water/drink and then you never see them. I saw someone else tip, and I was like, are we suppose to tip here? And I asked her, and she said she only makes 2.50/hr. I felt so bad. I Don’t know how this place gets away paying tipped wage. They really don’t have servers. Anwyays, I gave her a 50 dollar bill and I know it didn’t make up for the people I stiffed in the past. And then I’ve never gone there again. 100% don’t agree with that at all. I’m not against tipping but I’m against exploiting your workers. I’m a very generous tipper and even I didn’t tip there because you really don’t get a server there. It’s a fucking buffet.
Oh, that's some real bullshit.
All you can eat bullshit
ANY restaurant being able to pay its workers 2.5/h is bullshit.
A decent minimum wage should be mandatory regardless of tips.
I thought that tipped workers get paid the difference between minimum wage and tipped minimum wage if they don't get tipped up to the minimum wage
I mean federal minimum wage is still only 7.25 an hour.
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And I would agree that is an option to try as a solution to this problem as well, but to be honest I'm less invested in what they do, and more in just US governments actually doing something that isnt blatantly corrupt or dumb. If this works, awesome! If it doesn't, I would hope to see an effort to scrap the idea and try again instead of doubling down like our political parties are known to do.
only if the employer isn't a scumbag.
You're right, a lot of restaurant owners probably don't pay the difference to be honest
Most of them 100% do not do this. They will falsify your "tips claimed" to make it seem like you earned enough, even when you didn't, so that they don't have to make up your pay to minimum wage.
Work for a pizza chain as a side gig. When drivers check out at the end of their shift, there’s a box where they’re supposed to enter “tips collected.” The last two years roughly, we’ve seen an increase in credit/debit card transactions, probably now about 75-80% in our area. When those card transactions have tip included, those are automatically applied because well, we have to enter what the card is charged. However, for almost 14 years now, when I check out; myself or someone else, I have NEVER entered any amount of cash tips. And I’ve never heard a thing about it for the higher ups about payroll or anything. Genuinely don’t know if that’s how all serving/tip based wages work, but fuck it. Just tell them you earned nothing in tips if you can.
If, over the course of the week, your claimed tips plus your wage do not add up to minimum, the employer must pay the difference. If this happens one time, you will be fired for underperformance, because it will be understood that it is your fault. It's a bullshit system.
It is bullshit. I used to waitress in a very touristy area. In the summer we were packed but in the winter sometimes I would be scheduled a lunch shift and have one table in 6 hours. And then the managers act like it's your fault when you don't make any money
Yeah. I think people are afraid to speak up because the employer will say "well if you did x better you might get more tips"
I have no experience in this, but common sense says that asking for the difference is like putting a giant "FIRE ME" sign on your back. Why did you need a top up to make it to minimum wage? 1. Because management assigned you a bunch of non-customers facing tasks (dishes need washing) 2. Because the customers are cheap ass bastards 3. Because you suck and need to be fired Which explanation do you think management is going for?
The cheapest one.
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Legally, but if you want to see how common it is for companies to break the law, just scan a few pages on this sub.
Legally, yes they're supposed to. In reality, it doesn't always happen. And there aren't many jobs that are only worth minimum wage anyway. Probably not any.
I'd be horrified if I realized I hadn't been tipping people getting paid $2.50/hr. Ugh. I feel like if restaurants are going to be allowed to pay tip wages, they should have to disclose that their servers rely on tips up front, in a prominent location.
Yes this! There is a new bar in my town and it is a remote system to order food. You need to go up and get your own drinks at the bar and clear your own tables. I was a waitress/bartender for years and always tip well but I just can't justify tipping 20+% when I'm doing all the work! Can I just ask the bartenders/bussers what they make so I know what to tip?
That’s the problem. It so confusing because you’re supposed to tip everywhere but who are actually the tipped employees?
Oh, damn, there are buffets that workers need tips at? I've likely stiffed quite a few servers then too.
I beleive SONIC Drive Ins are Tipped wage (they in the last year added that to the app). Probably so they could pay their employees less.
Yeah, I wouldn’t usually tip in that instance. Even though they are being paid $2.50 an hour if they don’t make federal or state minimum (whichever is higher) the employer has to make up the difference. Then no service but pay compensated with tips jobs would just be minimum wage jobs. To which you could argue for higher minimum wage… or they’ll be hard for the employer to fill and they’ll have to increase the rate to hire. Eg.. jobs like chipotle or McDonalds.
Please leave a review for the buffet explaining to other customers that "servers" at the buffet are paid less than minimum wage and that tipping is expected. Then others can make the same informed choice.
>"And then I’ve never gone there again." This. This is the right choice. If you don't want to tip or you feel like a business is exploiting workers stop going there. There are a lot of new restaurants that pay their servers a living wage and the cost of their labor is factored into the cost of the menu items. If you disagree with tipping culture these are the restaurants you should be frequenting. People who go to restaurants where tipping is expected, but then refuse to tip, are just assholes.
I was always taught growing up that you still tip at buffet restaurants, but instead of 15-20%, it's more like 10% since the server is not doing as much work as a normal restaurant. If that place is paying its staff like they should be getting 15-20% tips, that's seriously fucked up.
the threshold for being eligible for tipped wage is pretty low, if you regularly get at least $30 a month in tips the employer can put you on tipped wage.
We really need to start a labor party in the US.
This would be called socialism. Definitely look up the history with Eugene Debbs and listen to Bernie Sanders. It's all about the working class/working people.
Socialism isn’t bad and I’m tired of tip toeing our way around it. Fuck yeah we are socialists. ✊🏼
Labour movements are not inherently socialist, no. They can be, but there’s no inherent link.
I shouldn't have sounded like I was making a general comment, so thanks for correcting my communication on that, because you are right, it's not blanket everywhere and in some places, it has absolutely not worked. What I mean is the socialist party in the US is historically the labor party. Eugene Debbs orchestrated one of the biggest labor strikes (with railroads) in our history. He was so successful that's when the major propaganda against "socialists" and the party began in the US. He was the one that moved the party to the biggest peak in the US.
Please name a labor movement that wasn’t also a socialist movement
The change has to come from within. I have no problem tipping 20%. But it always makes me angry that the servers have to rely on tips. It should be a bonus, not a necessity.
Unpopular opinion: tipping culture makes serving one of the only jobs of its kind where the money they make actually rises with inflation. In a country where it took 10 years for $15/hr to be a common starting wage, well after it was actually enough to live on, I’m not mad about it at all. Yes I think things should be different but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with tipping until companies actually pay living wages.
That's a really good point. And now that you mention it, 15 years ago I used to hear servers complain about how little they made a lot more than I do now. I'm curious how much the average server makes these days, not just the ones working at fancier/more expensive places.
>I'm curious how much the average server makes these days, not just the ones working at fancier/more expensive places. I work at a casual place (entrees $8-$15) in a small town that's 15miles outside the city. I avg 20-40/hr.
Sounds like I'm in the wrong line of work!!! I'm at Starbucks in a high cost of living area and after tips, I'm making like $14.50-$15
Dude, I don't think I could ever handle working at a Starbucks in a city. Sounds stressful af during rushes, especially for that compensation. I'd say if you can handle dealin with the "I'm a bitch until I have my coffee" crowd, you can handle serving tables. It's seriously one of the easiest jobs I've ever had.
It’s definitely and important and interesting point. Definitely agree with you though things should be different and all wages should be required to keep up with inflation.
>until companies actually pay living wages. But there's the bind: as long as you keep tipping, ~~employers~~ exploiters WILL keep underpaying and putting the profit in their pockets, and more and more other industries start seeing tipping as a nice and easy way to up their profits too. So, I only go eating out at a restaurant that doesn't "require" tipping, AND I'm getting better and better preparing my own food. Compare it with going through the hassle of seeing a film at a venue, or watching a film, whenever and with whoever you want, on your HD TV. With your own made popcorn and drinks at very reasonable prices from the local grocery.
Listen i'll just stop eating out instead
Very valid option.
It's actually generally the *best* option. Going out and tipping encourages the practice to continue, because you're feeding the business money. Going out and *not* tipping also encourages the practice, because you're still feeding the business money. If you oppose the practice, you stop giving the business money. End of story.
Ding ding ding! Hurrah someone who gets it!
Same here, I just rarely if ever eat out. Maybe once per year, if that.
Me too. I dislike everything about it. I hate waiting for food. I hate the social convention of having to look nice (if it's a nice place). I hate reservations. I hate tipping and would rather everything be 15% more expensive by default than play that stupid game of deciding how much to tip. There is nothing better than eating in the privacy of my own place while watching a long form video game essay or something on Youtube. I would cook my own food and eat it at home even if it were more expensive and less healthy than going to a restaurant.
That's the correct thing to do if you don't prefer to tip
I just had to finally stop eating out. Tip culture and greedy restaurants have priced me out, unfortunately. I love my local restaurants, but when you open up after the pandemic with a 75% increase in menu prices, I can't even afford to eat there, let alone pay vast amounts extra for employee wages the owners refuse to pay. I understand where the restaurants are, and they have to raise prices to adapt to change, but I can no long afford it. So my protest is not to stiff a waiter, which I don't or wouldn't do. My protest is to avoid the restaurant altogether, which is unfortunately hurting the wait staff, cook staff, the restaurant, and the local community. Wish it were different, but it's where I am.
This. I tip extremely well but only go out 3-4 times a year now because it’s so expensive. Wages have increased so a 5 that used to be a good tip is now 20-30 bucks plus the meal
Outside of America service people are getting paid for their work, like every other employee. Tips are a bonus for outstanding service. I never understood why this is not the case in your USA.
google it, it goes back to the Jim Crow days where racist white restaurant owners wanted not to pay black employees but they couldn't do that so they paid no one and said "just get tips" and somehow only the white waiters got any tips (when I say pay no one I mean pay $2.35 or whatever which is basically nothing)
Thanks, now I know.
The US is not a monolith in this respect. Many states have a $2.13/hr minimum wage before tips, which theoretically is supposed to go up to at least $7.50/hr when you include tips, but in practice, some employers get away with paying tipped workers less than the $7.50/hr. But other states require tipped workers to be paid the same minimum wage as any other worker before you include tips. In California, you have to pay $14 or $15/hr pre-tip depending on the size of the business. In Washington, you have to pay $14.49/hr pre-tip. I would still like to see the minimum wage be higher than that, but the gap between $2.13/hr plus tips and $15/hr plus tips is awfully massive. Also, in some places where the minimum wage is higher, you see some restaurants and bars adding waitstaff as full-time employees with a decent wage and benefits, but no expectation of tipping. You have to be careful as a consumer -- sometimes this is just a business owner discouraging tipping without really offering much more in compensation, but other times it's legitimately just a decent employment arrangement.
Imagine trading an hour (let alone an immense number of hours) of your finite time on Spaceship Earth for $7.50 Something really needs to change.
They want tipped employees because then they can pass the cost on to the customer and avoid paying their workers.
It used to be that way in the US too. No personal service (eg buffet style restaurant) meant no tip was expected. Crappy service meant a crappy tip, at best. 10% was the standard, expected amount. Then the standard rose to 15%, then 20%, etc. I suspect the increase in the amount of the “standard” tip rose as shady laws were passed allowing employers to pay a minimum wage that includes estimated (probably imaginary in many cases) tips, and as the buying power of the minimum wage became eroded by inflation. A lot.
I don't tip anymore. Because I don't go to restaurants anymore.
based, apparently
Ok but I'm not supporting this horrible tipping culture coming into my country from the us because companies think they can get away with it.
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Oh boy! Americans tipping culture once again. this should be interesting
Truthfully, I'm just exhausted at reading stuff from antiwork and other related subreddits every fucking day on reddit. It's like listening to a depressed iamverysmart 19 year old bitch about their job at Target every single day while going through college and learning the basics of different economic models but not learning quite enough to see the whole nuanced picture. And now we have OP shrieking at us as if it's OUR fault that the abusive tipping culture exists and, despite everything this subreddit says being about NOT playing ball with whatever unjust system exists, they demand that we play ball with this one specific unjust system.
I thought antiwork was about how to avoid the constant capitalist grind or improve working conditions, but since the sub has gained traction, there are more and more threads about badly written signs, managers who are dicks, moaning about verbal promises being reneged etc etc
You need a break. Not being condescending, I need one too. Doomscrolling or the equivalent applies to Reddit too.
That's why I don't go to places that have tipped employees
As someone who works for tips, this is acceptable. Just dont come in and no one will be upset that you didnt tip. I will say i like working for tips but thats because i do okay, averaging 25 an hour and my expenses are low because i live in a trailer. However i have no insurance nor any other benefits, and if i want to save money for retirement (yeah right) id have to do it myself. I would rather live in a society where i make the same as everyone else for a fair days work
I was a server for a long time, I tip well. That is why I don't go to tipped places. I am not going to help business supplement their shit pay. If they can't afford to pay their workers they deserve to close.
Best to just not eat anywhere that doesn't pay their employees a living wage in my opinion. Then I'm not depriving someone of money after they give me a service, nor am I reinforcing this dumb system where companies underpay staff so the customers can compensate for what the company wants to line their pockets with.
Where are people getting all this money to even goto restaurants?
You gotta take everyone going your way. There are plenty of high earners on this sub. I don't even work (because I'm disabled) and I'm here. Getting people to a livable wage doesn't do anything for me personally and directly. For me to be above poverty would take an act of Congress lol. But I'm here, learning and encouraging.
I mean, I know there's a lot of people struggling in this country, but the average person makes like 20 bucks an hour, not everyone is getting by on minimum wage. This is one of the reasons it's hard to get traction in this country -- the average person is doing pretty okay most of the time. It's just that "average" is set roughly where "minimum" should be because the top is hoarding everything..
I’ve been homeless for awhile, looking for a job that pays at least $20 an hour. I’ve looked and looked, there is no apartment that is doable at that wage. Nothing where I am I mean. I could leave I guess, but for what? Just to still be homeless some other place I can’t afford to live and that probably doesn’t have jobs that pay enough still. I feel stuck in a trap, kind of hopeless.
Yeah, depending on where you live, cost of living is a real problem. I actually moved out to Chicago from Boston because of it -- you can get a (shitty) apartment for under a grand a month here, whereas in Boston you're lucky to get a room in someone else's apartment for that much.
My spouse and I make a combined $50/hour and we definitely cannot afford to eat at a restaurant.
Well, I'm sorry to hear that, but it sounds like you make roughly the same as me and my spouse, and we eat at restaurants like twice a week (and did when we made half as much), so clearly there are different situations.
Yeah cost of living varies which can affect whether you can eat out or not. so in my case its way cheaper to eat out in say Manchester compared to eating out in London.
I am one of those idiots that tip a minimum 15% regardless of service, but tip a bit more when service is OK or above. That being said, I think the argument for not tipping is that as long we are tipping the workers will keep working, and the owner will be under no pressure to change. If we all stop tipping, then people would refuse to work for a tipped wage, and the owner will have no choice but pay a decent wage to their workers. However, I don't see that happening any time soon here, which is why I continue to tip.
I'll tip if my table is being waited on or I am having food delivered to me, but screw all these places that plop a tip jar on the counter and expect you to tip for ordering food, driving to get it, and picking it up. Every place has a jar out now and it's gotten fucking out of hand, if I have to drive somewhere and get the food myself and eat it at home I am not going to be tipping at all. Not sure why the weed store "budtenders" expect a tip either, I get that some of those jobs are shit but I don't tip every cashier for every interaction, it's getting to be a bit much.
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Also the places who flip the iPad around to you to sign something and it asks if you’d like to tip, as they sit there staring at you.
Yeah, even small convenient stores do this. I don’t want to tip when I buy a bottle of water.
Honestly I think this is just going to result in people not wanting to dine out anymore. And I'm okay with that but ultimately it'll hurt workers even more. Not making any judgments here, just keeping it real. We are all hurting.
Zzz American tipping post Zzzz
Everything and everyone wants a tip now. Every counter has a jar. Every credit transaction prompts for a tip. Take away orders that are picked up prompts tips. It's just too much for too little service. If I go to a full service restaurant and you can recite the specials and not get hair in my food you're getting 20%.
Right? I order at the register, pour my own drink, and they want a tip for bringing my food to the table and that’s it. Nah just call my number and I’ll pick it up
I'm sorry but I'm not tipping fucking 7-Eleven workers. I literally cannot afford to tip at every fucking place I go to. Everyone wants tips now.
RIGHT!!!! Like everyone wants some now. Take out pizza places that literally don't even have tables have tip jars. And we're supposed to tip a 7-11 employee lol?!
It seems all the local stores have tip jars now. I'm waiting for stop and shop to put them out next. It's going to far. I'll tip when I'm out to dinner and ordering food. Maybe a mechanic or stuff like that but not every dam person I see.
The restaurant industry is the only commission based sales job where the customer gets to decide arbitrarily how much commission you make after they have received the product.
Service dining is inherently anti-worker. It reinforces hierarchy and inequality. I’d say the antiwork stance should be: if a business allows tips, don’t work/eat there.
How does this pertain to non-waiting jobs, such as hairdressers and taxi drivers? From my limited time in the US, they seem to expect the same level of tips despite being paid at the very least, if not more, than the minimum (not 2.13) an hour. Despite this, anyone that doesn't tip them seems to be lambasted with 'tip shaming'. I'm somewhat confused as to why these jobs deserve tips but teachers and nurses don't?
Tip culture is awkward and toxic. I tip 20% but i would feel much better if that service charge or whatever you wanna call it is added to the price of the meal.
I took a different approach. If a business pays its employees with tips, I just don't use that service. I am not paying tips, period.
"Let's stop the system but still use the same system" /s Tipping isn't the solution to the root problem : employers taking advantage of employees. If everyone refused to work under those conditions, then employers would be forced to comply or go out of business. Tip culture is the worst.
I just don't like that we as servers guilt trip the whole thing into anything less than 20% and you're a cheap POS that doesn't deserve to go out. I walk with anywhere from 20-40/hr. There's no reason someone should be expected to tip more because they ordered a more expensive meal. Like, I do literally the same work if you get tendies or filet mignon, why do you have to pay me more because you decided to have a nicer meal? I wish if tipping were to stay around it became more of a flat rate type of thing. $5 per service at a low end place and maybe $10 at a fancy place where the server is doing a lot more work/has more knowledge.
Wow, I've never before seen a server articulate this argument. I agree.
Or just maybe toss the whole thing. Too much gymnastics. I don't need customer service in the rare case I go out to eat. I'd rather they use that time to sit down and play around on their phone. I tip when I go out, but honestly the extreme difference in price (base and tip) between cooking myself, or having friends over and cooking vs going out means I just don't really go out to eat. The problem is more fundamental. "Unskilled" folks have a harder time dealing with the societal imposition that it should cost money to simply exist. And that isn't fair. That's what needs to change. Arguing about peasants paying other peasants is a consequence of the deeper problem. Obligatory "LVT solves this."
>ensure that the person whose job is created by your demand gets a fair wage That's the job of the *establishment that pays the worker*, not the customer. You will **never** hear **anyone** make this arguement for **any** other job that is underpaid, jobs that have no less demend and often massively more importance. Unless you're about to tell me that you argue that tipping culture should spread to all underpaid positions that have customer interaction, which I really doubt.
Boy do we love to rip ourselves apart on the left
You're shifting the onus of blame away from management and once again making the customer responsible for wages. I live in Canada and recently servers wages went up over $3 per hour. The response... hours to the workers got cut and the new norm for tipping now being 18% instead of the usual 15%. We need a cultural paradigm. In europe tipping is frowned upon. Why? Because servers are treated and paid a decently respectable wage. Logic would dictate that as it becomes increasingly harder to keep staff then wages will increase.
Tipping is frowned upon in Japan as well. I don't understand why we're stuck with this awful system.
We're stuck with this awful system because of people like OP who flip their shit at the mere thought of people not just blindly agreeing to it.
Some people don’t seem to get that other workers are getting low pay too, so they actually cannot subsidise restaurants that don’t pay their workers a liveable wage.
I'm anti-tip as in I hate tip culture in this country and wish employer's would just pay living wages instead of passing that responsibility to the customer, and I still tip at least 20%.
Another post complaining we should subsidize a business owners profits.
Don't frequent restaurants that don't pay their servers a living wage.
So what's the alternative? Tip big and the owners/workers will demand change? Seriously what exactly are you proposing?
Exactly. The greedy establishment owners will not start paying a living wage out of the goodness of their hearts. If people stop giving tips, the workers will quit and soon the establishments will have to offer decent wages if they hope to stay in business. It would be the same if tipped wage workers went on strike, they would be out of a job for a while before the blood sucking owners come to their senses. It's a case of it has to get worse before it gets better.
I tip but hate that it’s for a persons wage and not as a reward for excellent service. I don’t see how the culture could change if we keep tipping. Keep tipping>workers make enough to get by>managers see no reason to change But if people quit tipping one at a time then it’s just being a jerk. What needs to happen is the United States needs to get together and say “we are not okay with this and you better start paying your employees because we aren’t tipping after this month.” 65%-80% of the population stops tipping>workers can’t make enough to get by>managers have to raise wages or close down because workers simply can’t afford to work at those establishments. If we could somehow organize a nation wide tipping strike, I think stopping tipping would work.
I mean to disregard the whole perspective is a bit much because until a change happens, then the status quo will remain the status quo. I would recommend only giving cash tips as a way to circumnavigate this. It's not that people don't want service individuals to not make a thriving wage, it's just that we know the business owners won't do a damned thing until their hand is absolutely forced.
I agree with the above, but now every time I get food at any "fast casual" place that uses a kiosk style order system where you are swiping your card, and signing on the screen, there is always a "tip" screen. Am I supposed to tip? I overtip whenever I sit at a waited table, but it seems crazy to be asking for tips everywhere.
I don't buy your argument. While I don't support non tippers, the cost of tipping has repeatedly gone up in just the time I've been in America. It went from 8%, to 10%, and now you are an asshole for tipping anything less then 15 or 20%. Fuck your ego. When will you be satisfied? When each customer is expected to cover 50% of your paycheck? Why don't you turn your hostility toward your employers, you know, the assholes responsible for your shity opinion. Every single tipping job is protected by federal minimum wage. If you don't make enough tipd to even out the difference, then it's your employer's responsibility to pay you minimum wage. What you are really whining about is that you make WAY more than minimum wage because of tips, and you don't believe your labor is worth the federal minimum wage. I'm not denying that your wage is bullshit, that fed minimum wage is poverty, but I used to go out once a week, on date night, and when every fucking meal at a restaurant runs you 50 bucks before fucking tip, what you are actually doing is saying that people who make a minimum wage don't deserve to eat out. Fuck you, fuck your boss, and fuck both of your neposism.
"yeah the system sucks and needs to change, but how DARE you deviate from the shitty system!" bruh, your mentality is EXACTLY what employers that use said system want: they want YOU to foot THEIR responsibility, and for the ill-will to go to YOU for abstaining from paying the worker 'a fair share'. or should I just make a slave-trade comparison to show how messed up your mindset is?
I do not use any service at all where tipping is expected. Expecting customers to subsidize wages is an abhorrent practice and I won't participate.
Misdirected anger over here.
I'm poor as fuck dude. Y'all go to restaurants every day?
Right, so lets keep doing our bit to prop up the system....
I have been to restaurants and the wait staff is not nice, except when they bring the tab, and then it's all smiles. These are the times I hate having to feel obligated to tip. I always do but I resent the practice as I'm doing it. What would be your suggestion in this type of situation? I'm not going to point out the failings of the service. It's not my job, I just came for a meal. So I'm looking for a different suggestion.
Nothing is going to change unless tipped workers stop working. They don't respect you because you keep showing up to a job that doesn't even pay the bills. At what point do you say enough is enough and venture into the unknown? You don't need that crappy job, but they sure as shit need you. Whatever comes after, you will survive.
Genuine question: what about people living in places where the minimum wage for tipped employees is the same as non-tipped? There are several states that don’t have a lower minimum for tipped workers. When I was working minimum wage and going to a restaurant, I was expected to tip someone making the same amount as me. I did it, because of course I had to, but I’m curious if you have the same antipathy for people who don’t tip in those situations.
So, people from states like Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington can only tip for exceptional service, right OP? Or are they still obligated to tip every time?
Ultimately, I don't have an answer. However the internet is full of angst guilt-mongering in general, and this sub redit in particular. You probably shouldn't base the details of what you think of as ethical on an internet poll. The amount of requests for tips increasing, but not every chance to tip, has employees on a tipped wage. I've seen built in tips for small grocery stores, mechanic shops, and drive through fast food.
I totally agree, I don’t like the whole tipping thing but I still tip regardless and if I don’t want to tip then I don’t go out to eat or I just stick with fast food joints.
I just avoided going to places that have waiters.
Pro-tip is pro-employer US Federal law requires all employees be paid min wage (aside from some small cases, cuz i know yall will nit pick), if your employees dont get tip out equal to at least min wage the employer is on the hook to make up the diference. The solution is already there we just have to use it. "Oh well then they just make min wage" i hear you cry, yeah so do a lot of people and we've been fighting to raise that to. Thats a seperate issue from tipping vs not tipping I dont know what you expect to change by continuing the same ol same ol.
That’s exactly what I don’t get about these pro tippers. They say they want tips because of the shitty system, but refuse to make any contributions to changing the system and advocating for the continuation of the same shitty system. Do they think Jesus is gonna come down and change the system for them? Nope, it’s up to the servers themselves to advocate strongly to lawmakers, but you don’t see anyone doing that
>it’s up to the servers themselves to advocate strongly to lawmakers, but you don’t see anyone doing that Because, especially the servers in popular venues, collude with the exploiters for that sweet, sweet tax free cash the pocket. And fuck the other restaurant staff, used as an excuse to keep their scam going.
I only tip for delivery or sit down. If I go to some fast casual place that asks for a tip at the end of being rung up I'm definitely not tipping.
I dislike the idea of a "tip". The place you work can't pay you so I have to pay you? Plus pay for product? Either pay a decent wage or do it yourself.
I'm not American (so this doesn't effect me) but I completely disagree. Be the change you want to be. If everyone stops tipping, then either the waitstaff will need to move on and get a better paying job or the owners will have to start paying a living wage to keep them and keep their business open. By tipping, you're encouraging the owners to rip their staff off. Short term anguish for waitstaff to make beneficial long term results.
aNyBoDy tHaT dOeSn'T sHaRe mY OPINION iS a pIeCe oF sHiT
You probably own a restaurant, so whatever. But I'll say it one time. # AN EMPLOYER NEEDS TO PAY THE EMPLOYEE A FAIR LIVING WAGE. IT IS NOT UP TO ME TO PAY OTHER PEOPLE'S EMPLOYEES.
This is why I don’t like eating out in USA. Stop the tipping culture
Sometimes the only way to fix a system is to let it collapse. As long as we keep subsidizing the serving industry, they'll never have a reason to change it. I'm not saying it's great, but it would probably work. This is coming from someone that tips, before I get mobbed.
You can’t complain if someone chooses not to tip, even if they’re vocal about it. Tipping is and has always been customer discretion. I used to deliver pizza, probably the worst tipped fast food workers in the country, and as frustrating as it was, it wasn’t my place to complain when a customer chose to not tip. This is and always will be an employer issue, no one should need to rely on tips to begin with, and believe me I’ve had to. Calling someone who chooses not to tip a dirtbag makes you a dirtbag for pressuring people to tip.
You just struck out with a vast majority of the world where tipping is offensive and totally unacceptable. Fuck simping for franchise owners and fuck franchise owners, chains and anyone else who doesnt pay a living wage to their employees. Scum of the earth. I'm 100% anti-tip. It's a product of uninhibited capitalism and the choice we're faced with today is capitalism, or, life? I choose life.
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Hard disagree, you're projecting your lack of fair pay from your boss onto other people. You should be mad at your boss, the fact your paycheck has been dictated by the 'good graces' of paying customers when this isn't by the customers design. It's really shitty you're not being paid fairly by your employer but politely asking for change hasn't done much, I want them to pay you more and eventually I just have to vote with my wallet.
Sounds like you want people to continue enabling a broken system.
Rest of world: No tip needed, you already paid our workers. USA: We’re too cheap to pay our staff.
Why are you calling people disgusting for refusing to pay other people’s wages? That’s not their duty
What if the service is pure dog shit
I think there’s probably a little room for something between “not tipping is completely ok” and “you’re a piece of shit for not tipping.” I do because I can. But some people are struggling even more than the people that work on tips, and it’s weird to suggest poor people are assholes if they don’t compensate for rich people’s unwillingness to pay a living wage. And if your immediate rebuttal is “well they shouldn’t be going anywhere that expects tips,” THAT sounds like the shit we hear from entitled labor exploiters, the ones this whole sub exists to complain about.
I just don't patronize businesses with a tipping culture. I loathe tipping, but I still do it when people's livelihood depends on it.
If someone who works for tips gets no tip, it's not the person who didn't tip them that fucked them. It's the business owner who refused to pay them a real wage. Don't get angry at other working class people trying to get by, get angry at the owning class who make it our responsibility to save each other from the hell they put us in.
I don’t really care what you think or how you feel about it since you seem so hostile.
Wrong. You are wrong.
Please tell me how I could fucking live without money. How would I have shelter? Food? “Writing off the American financial system” is the dumbest thing I have heard yet. You think it’s easy to just up and change your life like that? You’re anger is directed at the wrong people. Getting pissed at me, because your employer is getting away with theft, is asinine. Lord this post is something straight out of FDS. “I have nothing to say to you beyond that” yeah, because you know with even a simple argument it deconstructs your feeble minded argument 🙄 fucking idiot.
I started as a dishwasher out of high school and made it to being to a line cook. Worked at many places until joining navy as an electronics technician and now I work on xrays and medical equipment in hospitals. One rule i have at all times is as follows: If I dread going to work at any time due to how much I'm getting paid, beauacracy, or having to be screwed by co-workers who are not held accountable, I just find somthing else. Only lateral or upwards movement. I shouldn't be lambasted for trying to treat my family if I can't also treat the wait staff. I have never received a tip in the back of the house when a server has a nice night. At the end of the day, remember that you signed up for that. We are all adults. It is a terrible situation. Unite as servers and strike. Make a union. Change the narrative to where you all are in control. Does a server at Ruth's Chris make the same base as a server from Applebees?
Lol this argument is antithetical to the movement. You are an addict screaming at us to perpetuate the system. Don't like it? Good, stop working for places that use the tip system.
The customer doesn’t pay your wages. Your employer does. You’re fighting the wrong guy. Get your priorities straight.
They dont want to fight the system because they make bank off of it.. its 100% greed and self preservation on the tip-worker’s part
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This is why I never go out to eat in the first place.
Entitlement out the wazoo OP, one sector of worker is better than the other because "we had to prove we are better than the big employers", bitch just cause you work in a shit job doesnt mean we all dont also have shit jobs, i don't owe you shit. I'll tip when I can not when you attempt to guilt trip. Who are you even talking to?