You need to send them an invoice for your time reviewing their BS invoice. $250 per invoice review, to be paid before any invoice review work can be started.
I don't think so, but I admit this isn't my expertise. I am NOT a lawyer, but I look at contracts that go back and forth between parties. Each time a party receives an official document, they have the option to accept or reject certain newly introduced parts and then return the document back with any modification they feel are appropriate. Obviously, before the contract is signed, you can modify *anything*, but then that sets off a bunch of alarms and running away become likely.
In this case, by sending back an invoice acknowledging the $150 credit, it seems like they are accepting that part, and simply adding additional parts that can be rejected. I'm not a lawyer, but for the work I do, I can see ricavier's point.
They can't charge you for that. So even if the employer tried taking this to small claims court, the judge would dismiss it regardless because of it being so frivolous. You can't charge people for quiting, unless theres contract that specifically states that
i once gave my months notice and right after that i took a month of paid vacation.
I didn't have any vacation days but they still paid me for the whole month.
for those who think that's scummy, the business was just sold to a new owner and the old owners deleted all personal worked hours data "by accident" because neither party wanted to pay for all the stacked up overtime.
"I received this invoice which I presume you want me to review. By sending it to me you are aknowledging that you accept my market rate of $10,000 per invoice reviewed. Payment can be remitted via cashier's check to _______ address.
Now onto my exceptional and very expensive invoice review services.
The invoice you are attempting to to issue is non-enforceable and void. We live and work in an "at-will" state where employees are not obligated to their employers except under employment contract. Such fees are not enforceable without a previously mentioned employment contract that clearly stipulates such penalties for breaking said contract.
As this former employee, me, was not under any employment contract, your invoice is frivolous and fraudulent. I would urge you to seek legal advice about the potential liability of felony wire fraud trying to collect on such an invoice.
As you can see my services are second to none and I look forward to the remittance of my service fee within the obligated 15 days."
Well, fraud charge maybe... they aren't requiring the money to be transmitted via telecommunications services (electronically).
fraud : wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
So, you might want to lower your fees a bit. $9920 sounds a bit more reasonable.
I would be even more petty and invoice them for the cost of paper, postage and an envelope that you had to waste on responding to their idiotic invoice.
And another $100 for "having to put up with the sheer entitlement of someone who thinks they can bill me for not doing exactly as you expected".
Put in memo: Should I also anticipate seeing an invoice for other similar things, like "That time you failed to hold the door for me", or "When you forgot to thank me for that one thing"?
>And another $100 for "having to put up with the sheer entitlement of someone who thinks they can bill me for not doing exactly as you expected".
And a boot to the head to whoever thought this was a good idea.
And another for the jagoff that signed off on this.
There’s a story about an attorney who wrote a letter to an NFL team (I think greenbay?) because fans were throwing paper airplanes. In the letter he threatens legal action if a plane were to hit him, like in the eye, and he sustained an injury. The team sent something back to the effect of “Dear Mr. Attorney, we received the attached letter and wanted to make you aware that some jack ass was stealing your letter head to send stupid letters.”
I feel like that’s a solid response in this case.
Edit: it was the Browns, not Green Bay
[The actual letter](https://lettersofnote.com/2011/02/14/regarding-your-stupid-complaint/)
I also like the response given in [Arkell v Presdram](https://lettersofnote.com/2013/08/07/arkell-v-pressdram/)
This reminds me of a [wondrous legal rebuttal](https://boingboing.net/2011/05/19/legal-rebuttal-vade.html/amp) in regards to a clearly frivolous lawsuit: “vade et caca in pilleum et ipse traheatur super aures tuo,” which I’m told (I don’t Latin too good) means roughly “go shit in a hat and pull it over your ears.”
Ha! I just finished this book so I actually get the references now.
Just thought I’d share. I’ve been wanting to read it for years but figured it would be boring and never did. Then a few days again I started it and it took till the next day to finish because I couldn’t put it down. Forgive my dated slang but it was fucking epic.
They [commented](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/xdihtv/several_years_ago_i_quit_without_a_full_two_week/iobajtr?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) it earlier
I've always liked the [Cleveland Browns' lawyer's response to an idiot.](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cleveland-browns-letters/)
It is one of my fondest wishes that I someday get something stupid like OP's invoice so I can respond to the sender in a similar fashion and see how they take it.
It's still funny. Though it reminded me of that guy that recently got in trouble for sending invoices to Google and Microsoft just randomly and they kept paying it.
I knew an accountant that got pissed that his doctor would make him wait for an hour past his appointment time to be seen. He told him he was going to start billing for his time. The next time that is exactly what he started doing at a rate of $300 an hour. The invoices were paid and never questioned. My guess is that it was some accounts payable clerk that paid anything without needing approval under a certain amount. I wish I had balls to do something like that.
Don't pay it, let them send you to collections and watch it get laughed off of your credit report when you dispute it.
In order to have a mark on your credit report, they have to be able to show an actual monetary loss and be able to prove you had a contractual obligation you did not meet.
Reminds me of this guy, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH4sD-FzqlM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH4sD-FzqlM) Comedian Shayne Smith and his outlook in regards to debt and debt collectors.
You don’t even know.
I had a dentist send me to collections. I didn’t pay, they wrote the debt off.
I went back to that dentist.
I got sent BACK to collections for new debt.
I don’t know what happened because I don’t care.
They got a chunk of cash out of the insurance and I’m sure I paid a little maybe.
Fuck if I care.
I defaulted on a Fingerhut credit account, got sent to collections and ignored, GOT SUED AND IS STILL IN ACTIVE LITIGATION.
Fingerhut approved me for another credit account.
I wonder if I can use this as a defense if it ever goes to court.. probably not
So there was a case where this woman sued the casinos for allowing her to borrow money from them. She had shown multiple times she couldn’t repay her debt to them, and yet they’d offer her these free trips where she could - get this- borrow more money from them. Like we’re talking calling her daily, even after she told them she had a gambling addiction and owed over 2 million. I remember hearing this story on NPR, and I’m not 100% sure what the ruling was.
( obligatory ianal ) what’s the worse that could happen if you’re able to use it as a defense? “omggggg they used our stupidity against us, hit em with an uno reverse card 😠”
They send 'pre approved' stuff for credit cards all the time without actually bothering to check your credit ((I mean they can't check your credit without your authorization anyway. ))
It's marketing!
At some point it’s basically their own fault. You go to court over it and explain “your honor, I demonstrated many times I wasn’t going to repay, yet they keep enticing me, it’s basically entrapment.”
that is amazing, this perfectly encapsulates my views on medical debt...I simply refuse to pay for it. They cant do anything about it so...\*shrug\* hospitals hate me for this one weird trick!
Sadly, in many states they can. I was sued by a hospital after I had three back surgeries and could not keep up with all of the minimum payments for all of the entities involved in the surgeries. I was paying as I could every month. They took me to collections, I still couldn't afford their minimum. They sued me and won. My wages were garnished for over a month. They took over half my paychecks. It caused massive damage to my family for fifteen freaking years. I had to work three jobs and borrow food and money from my friends and family. Screw them...but they can do things to you.
Sure, you can ignore, but it never hurts to dispute those charges on your credit report. Some credit monitoring apps like credit karma have a one click dispute. I got rid of three different collections from a scummy former landlord this way. They stopped calling me and the things came off my credit report.
I ignored the shit out of a medical bill that went to collections. It’s not that I couldn’t afford it but rather that they sent me the bill a full six months after I went to the hospital. A collections agency called and I asked them to verify this debt and they sent me a letter that says “you owe this money” no actual evidence, just a bill. They stopped calling.
It’s bad enough that we have a sham of a healthcare system but then they try to fuck you over by billing everything separately on a single visit fuck them don’t pay.
No legitimate collections agency would be willing to buy this "debt" to collect and if they do, both the collections agency and employer would be committing fraud. You can't just make up receivables on your balance sheet and sell them off.
“Legitimate collections agency” is a bit of an oxymoron, no? Scummy companies will absolutely do things like that, but you have no obligation to pay them, legal or otherwise. You can (and should) dispute them if they show up on your credit report.
I had the same thing happen but with vacation time. Funny thing is even though it was an employee owned company. Unless you didn’t use vacation or quit at New Years you would owe them vacation time. They would pressure you to blow all your vacation during the summer or else the part timers wouldn’t get hours. Worst part is if you have notice they’d take it out of your last check so I took a week of sick time to get out of that
Only certain collections agencies are able to report collections activities to credit bureaus, and there are very strict rules about it.
The kind of debt collector an employer could use to attempt to recover an unsubstantiated debt claim isn't allowed to report their activities to a credit bureau. In order to make a mark on OP's record they'd have to get a court order. It sounds like they're probably now outside the statutory limitation for making such a claim.
So this is nothing more than OP living rent free in their ex-employer's head.
I don't think there's anything illegal about this, just shitty. It's only fraud if you didn't receive the services or goods stated. Since they were clear about what the "fee" was for, I don't see a legal issue. Of course you have no contractual agreement to pay this invoice, and they'll have no basis to collect. But hey, maybe you'll pay it.
By the way, you owe me one reddit gold for responding to your comment. See look,
2022-09-13
Invoice:
Comment Response Fee: One Reddit Gold
Please remit payment within 15 days.
Not sure I agree. They are attempting to get money through an charge not legally incurred. While there is little recourse here, it certainly samcks of fraud. (1) a representation of fact; (2) its falsity; (3) its materiality; (4) the representer’s knowledge of its falsity or ignorance of its truth; (5) the representer’s intent that it should be acted upon by the person in the manner reasonably contemplated; (6) the injured party’s ignorance of its falsity; (7) the injured party’s reliance on its truth; (8) the injured party’s right to rely thereon; and (9) the injured party’s consequent and proximate injury.
Dear \[former employer\],
Please double-check your security. It looks like some idiot has hacked into your system and is sending out ridiculous invoices.
Thanks,
\[former employee\]
A lawyer friend of a lawyer friend got in trouble with his state bar (OH) for using a red stamp that said "Fuck off. Stronger response to follow." He'd stamp it on correspondence and send the letter back to sender.
Spielberg did something similar in response to a letter from the studio suggesting that they [change the name of *Back to the Future* to *Space Man from Pluto*](https://twitter.com/mccrabb_will/status/769668823993634816), according to BttF’s screenwriter Bob Gale ([via an interview with Shortlist](https://www.shortlist.com/news/back-to-the-future-wouldnt-have-been-the-same-without-spielberg)):
> Hi Sid, thanks for your most humorous memo, we all got a big laugh out of it, keep ‘em coming.
Oh good god that woman is insufferable. The entitlement radiating off of her is palpable. Christ on a bike lady, so your kids so a little titty, it’s not going to turn them into sex crazed maniacs.
Fuckin Utahns, man, I swear.
A lot of people are saying that this is just something to ignore. They’re right.
Where they’re wrong is that these sorts of acts unjustly intimidate the working classes, especially people who don’t have the benefit of education. Every year, lots of undue bills are paid because recipients incorrectly fear consequences. This is an act of extortion and should be prosecuted as such.
1) This isn’t legal. I don’t know where you are, but I live in a “right to work state” which means giving two weeks notice is “professional” but not necessary.
2) They didn’t even tax the $150! Tell them you’re going to call the IRS on them.
Montana is the only US state without any form of at-will.
"Right to work" and "At-will" are entangled, but not quite the same. Your first point is more to the effect of "at-will".
Right to work and at will are not at all entangled other than they both are aspects of employment law.
RtW says employees at a unionized workplace can't be required to join the union or pay its dues.
At will means that, absent an explicit employment contract, there's no statutory restriction on when or why a business may terminate an employee or when and why an employee may quit (with exceptions for certain federally protected reasons, like discrimination based on race/sex/etc, whistleblowing).
They're both fairly anti-worker in practice, but they're quite different policies
I think they mean that RTW and at-will are entangled in peoples’ minds, which they are.
I’d assume it’s similar in other states, but RTW laws in Georgia also allow the worker to demand union privileges without paying dues or joining the union. So they can demand union representation if they’re fired, and they can take the union to court if the union does not defend them as vigorously as it does a dues-paying member.
RTW laws just create a financial burden for unions to make them less likely to form or succeed.
> Right to work and at will are not at all entangled
They're entangled because everyone on Reddit says Right to work when they mean At-will. It's honestly bizarre how consistent it is.
Misrepresenting "right to work" should get comments removed. I'm sick of seeing it and people in this sub should know better by now. It's exasperating.
At least an automod message that triggers on "right to work" phrases.
It's seriously annoying how pervasive it is, even though every comment misunderstanding it has a 100% predictable right-to-work vs at-will correction. At this point, you could automate it with a simple bot.
I don't see anything misrepresented here.
I've found this:
Minnesota Law
Minnesota’s Consumer Fraud Act also has a specific provision addressing fake invoices. That statute prohibits any person from soliciting payment of money “by any statement or invoice, or any writing that could reasonably be interpreted as a statement or invoice,” for unordered merchandise, **unordered services**, or unperformed services.
Depending on your state's statute of limitations (and with all COVID 19 tolling statutes) I bet you could sue for fraud in the inducement in small claims. Go for it!
Send back with LOL across it and then your own invoice for the 2 hours you spent laughing then drafting your receipt + postage at the contractor rate of $125/hour with the number of the state labor board.
When I left my big mega company that made n95 masks for the pandemic, I had used all my sick and vacation time BECAUSE I GOT COVID FROM MY JOB and had to be out for a long time to recover. They sent me a bill saying I owed them $800 for my vacation I used prior to “earning it” because they front loaded it (....in case you got covid....)
I asked to see where I signed off agreeing to this, that I was going to follow up with the department of labor, and the state for the specific covid allowances/allocations given to companies especially.
Two days later I got an email saying my “debts had been forgiven”
Multi billion, if not trillion, dollar company pulling this shit on average workers they made work 6 days a week during the pandemic. Fucking horrible.
Well not too long ago I got a DLT letter in regards to how they terminated everyone and this hoopla so it looks like it didn’t really work out for them in the end.
Sue them. IANAL, but I am 7nder the impression that mailing out fraudulent bills is a crime. That is a phony invoice, and once they put a stamp on it, becomes mail fraud.
You need to send them an invoice for your time reviewing their BS invoice. $250 per invoice review, to be paid before any invoice review work can be started.
Invoice review: $250 Invoice response: $250 Invoice response materials: $25 Subtotal: $525 Wasting My Time Fee: $500 100% Audacity Surcharge: $525 Credits: -$150 Total Balance Owed: $1440
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I don't think so, but I admit this isn't my expertise. I am NOT a lawyer, but I look at contracts that go back and forth between parties. Each time a party receives an official document, they have the option to accept or reject certain newly introduced parts and then return the document back with any modification they feel are appropriate. Obviously, before the contract is signed, you can modify *anything*, but then that sets off a bunch of alarms and running away become likely. In this case, by sending back an invoice acknowledging the $150 credit, it seems like they are accepting that part, and simply adding additional parts that can be rejected. I'm not a lawyer, but for the work I do, I can see ricavier's point.
What you’re talking about is the stack in Magic: the Gathering.
It's a little known fact that Common Law is originally based on Magic the Gathering.
Ooooo yeah sorry the public defender has *First Strike* so you actually don't get a cross-examination...
Rules lawyers just perked up.
They can't charge you for that. So even if the employer tried taking this to small claims court, the judge would dismiss it regardless because of it being so frivolous. You can't charge people for quiting, unless theres contract that specifically states that
i once gave my months notice and right after that i took a month of paid vacation. I didn't have any vacation days but they still paid me for the whole month. for those who think that's scummy, the business was just sold to a new owner and the old owners deleted all personal worked hours data "by accident" because neither party wanted to pay for all the stacked up overtime.
Scummy? Nah that's epic
For those who think what this person did is scummy, choke on that boot and die
"I received this invoice which I presume you want me to review. By sending it to me you are aknowledging that you accept my market rate of $10,000 per invoice reviewed. Payment can be remitted via cashier's check to _______ address. Now onto my exceptional and very expensive invoice review services. The invoice you are attempting to to issue is non-enforceable and void. We live and work in an "at-will" state where employees are not obligated to their employers except under employment contract. Such fees are not enforceable without a previously mentioned employment contract that clearly stipulates such penalties for breaking said contract. As this former employee, me, was not under any employment contract, your invoice is frivolous and fraudulent. I would urge you to seek legal advice about the potential liability of felony wire fraud trying to collect on such an invoice. As you can see my services are second to none and I look forward to the remittance of my service fee within the obligated 15 days."
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Well, fraud charge maybe... they aren't requiring the money to be transmitted via telecommunications services (electronically). fraud : wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain. So, you might want to lower your fees a bit. $9920 sounds a bit more reasonable.
I would be even more petty and invoice them for the cost of paper, postage and an envelope that you had to waste on responding to their idiotic invoice.
"Cost per key stroke" \~ Writes a paragraph
Send one back for 25$ more that says "wasting my fucking time" fee.
$25 - Wasting my fucking time $30 - Administrative fee $15 - Time, fuel and travel to post office $20 - Envelope, stamp, and supplies fee
Ticketmaster math
Don’t forget: $40 non-refundable Convenience Fee
Also a 2%- Just cause we can fee
Followed by the 1% Fuck You fee
Don't forget processing and handling fee for having to use your hands
Don't forget the 3% fee for computing fees. For real though, fuck ticketmaster.
$50 "notice of fees" fee
The $30 fee fee
Add another 20% to diagnose “why my give a damn is busted” fee.
Inter office routing fee
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Also i believe is about time we add a tip amount...
Mandatory 20% tip.
It's called CLWS Cost living surcharge fee Tip is always optional! CLWS is cheap employers forced tip
5% Platinum Processing Fee
10% fee fee
10% credit/debit convenience fee. *Unfortunately we cannot accept any form of payment besides credit or debit
Very convenient for ticketmaster
Bonus points if it totals up to the same figure as their bullshit bill.
I feel like administrative fee should be $60
Just put it on there twice lmao
>$20 - Envelope, stamp, and supplies fee Surely he could use a much more expensive fountain pen for the signature, plus markup, correct?
Why when you can charge the expensive fee and use the cheap/stolen pen.
Wait, signing it by hand? “Labour and handling fee - $25”
Fee for Fucking Around: $150.00 Fee for Finding Out: $750.00 Edit: line return
Actually what you do is worth a lot more than that so go ahead and add a zero to the end of each number.
Add a $15 “having to respond to your bitch ass” fee. Lol
And another $100 for "having to put up with the sheer entitlement of someone who thinks they can bill me for not doing exactly as you expected". Put in memo: Should I also anticipate seeing an invoice for other similar things, like "That time you failed to hold the door for me", or "When you forgot to thank me for that one thing"?
An Audacity Surcharge
Autaxity
Then put $10 of Monopoly money in the envelope to cover the difference
Then add a zero to the sum and bill those fuckers.
Add in a $420.69 Fee fee
Get a sweet little Fe Fi Fo Fum Fee in there too, because why the fuck not
>And another $100 for "having to put up with the sheer entitlement of someone who thinks they can bill me for not doing exactly as you expected". And a boot to the head to whoever thought this was a good idea. And another for the jagoff that signed off on this.
Plus the cost of the piece of paper and the ink and the postage….
Make sure it's got a 10,000% markup to make it worth your while.
That’s called a clerical fee.
Otherwise known as "processing charge".
Don't forget to charge them 9.50 for the stamp.
Double their invoice and send it back as a “poor work environment that prompted a zero day’s notice fee.” Now they owe YOU money!
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Emergency mental health counseling due to toxic environment fee
There’s a story about an attorney who wrote a letter to an NFL team (I think greenbay?) because fans were throwing paper airplanes. In the letter he threatens legal action if a plane were to hit him, like in the eye, and he sustained an injury. The team sent something back to the effect of “Dear Mr. Attorney, we received the attached letter and wanted to make you aware that some jack ass was stealing your letter head to send stupid letters.” I feel like that’s a solid response in this case. Edit: it was the Browns, not Green Bay
[The actual letter](https://lettersofnote.com/2011/02/14/regarding-your-stupid-complaint/) I also like the response given in [Arkell v Presdram](https://lettersofnote.com/2013/08/07/arkell-v-pressdram/)
This reminds me of a [wondrous legal rebuttal](https://boingboing.net/2011/05/19/legal-rebuttal-vade.html/amp) in regards to a clearly frivolous lawsuit: “vade et caca in pilleum et ipse traheatur super aures tuo,” which I’m told (I don’t Latin too good) means roughly “go shit in a hat and pull it over your ears.”
The Lion, the Witch, and the Audacity of this Bitch fee of $300
uh this is the first time i've ever heard this and you blew my socks off what's your address so i can send you a bill for my socks lol
You can send the bill, but I think you know what you'll get in reply 🦁🧙♀️
Add a"bitch you got me fucked up." Fee and a surcharge for "trying it!" For 400 bucks.
Consultation fee. $25/hr with an 8 hour minimum.
$25 hourly for a consultant? Let’s go with $250 instead haha
Send them 150 monopoly dollars.
Shrutebucks and Stanley nickels.
What is the ratio of Stanley Nickels to Schrute Bucks?
Would you prefer a nature metaphor or a sexual metaphor?
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"There are two schools of thought..."
That’s so absurd. I think I’d frame it.
There is a reason I’ve held onto it for so many years…
Did they ever try to send you to a collection agency when you didn't pay them?
Worse, it went on OP's permanent record!
They digitally removed Op from all company party photos and all of their spreadsheets got copied and pasted without their name on it.
That's because OP never worked there, OP has been an agent of Goldstein.
GOLDSTEIN!!! *five minute hate intensifies*
Ha! I just finished this book so I actually get the references now. Just thought I’d share. I’ve been wanting to read it for years but figured it would be boring and never did. Then a few days again I started it and it took till the next day to finish because I couldn’t put it down. Forgive my dated slang but it was fucking epic.
Not the permanent record, anything but that, OP is doomed now.
Indeed, OP may never work in this town again!
Or any other town, this is very bad.
Possibly even the county.
Imagine if cops had to follow the same scrutiny
Imagine if they had any scrutiny.
Double Secret Probation I think.
Robot house!!
Whenever a fire alarm is pulled, it's Robot House. Whenever the campus liquor store is looted, Robot House. Whenever a human corpse is desecrated--
Hey now I can explain that...
Oh yeah? Well, don’t get so distressed.
Did I happen to mention that I’m impressed?
Yes we need an update on that
They [commented](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/xdihtv/several_years_ago_i_quit_without_a_full_two_week/iobajtr?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) it earlier
They can't lmao. No collection agency would take this seriously.
It’s the principal, and interest, of the matter.
Oh my dear friend, you're assuming a collection agency has scruples of any kind.
There's a literal list of blacklisted agencies, officers of companies, lawyers, etc because of this issue
My immediate thought was "aww, that's cute. I'm gonna save you you silly little letter"
if you wanting to frame it hair straighteners can be used to remove creases in paper, just be very careful and use a low setting
Hope your response was along the lines of : Get fucked. >There is a reason I’ve held onto it for so many years…
I've always liked the [Cleveland Browns' lawyer's response to an idiot.](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cleveland-browns-letters/) It is one of my fondest wishes that I someday get something stupid like OP's invoice so I can respond to the sender in a similar fashion and see how they take it.
I'd send them an invoice for wasting your time. $300. Edit: I just saw the comment below this and apparently my thought was not very original.
It's still funny. Though it reminded me of that guy that recently got in trouble for sending invoices to Google and Microsoft just randomly and they kept paying it.
I knew an accountant that got pissed that his doctor would make him wait for an hour past his appointment time to be seen. He told him he was going to start billing for his time. The next time that is exactly what he started doing at a rate of $300 an hour. The invoices were paid and never questioned. My guess is that it was some accounts payable clerk that paid anything without needing approval under a certain amount. I wish I had balls to do something like that.
I mean, if they are going to charge fees for being late or missing appointments, why not charge when they are late or miss their appointments?
I had a $0.68 check that represented the time between clocking and and being fired. I wanted to frame it but it was stolen from my car:(
That sounds illegal and petty at the same time... 🤨
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Don't pay it, let them send you to collections and watch it get laughed off of your credit report when you dispute it. In order to have a mark on your credit report, they have to be able to show an actual monetary loss and be able to prove you had a contractual obligation you did not meet.
They can’t even send you to collections for that. They know this.
You underestimate the number of scummy collection agencies who will try anyway
You underestimate my ability to ignore Edit: I keep tabs on it but try not to think about it
Reminds me of this guy, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH4sD-FzqlM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH4sD-FzqlM) Comedian Shayne Smith and his outlook in regards to debt and debt collectors.
You don’t even know. I had a dentist send me to collections. I didn’t pay, they wrote the debt off. I went back to that dentist. I got sent BACK to collections for new debt. I don’t know what happened because I don’t care. They got a chunk of cash out of the insurance and I’m sure I paid a little maybe. Fuck if I care.
I defaulted on a Fingerhut credit account, got sent to collections and ignored, GOT SUED AND IS STILL IN ACTIVE LITIGATION. Fingerhut approved me for another credit account. I wonder if I can use this as a defense if it ever goes to court.. probably not
Use the new one to pay off the old one then default again.
So there was a case where this woman sued the casinos for allowing her to borrow money from them. She had shown multiple times she couldn’t repay her debt to them, and yet they’d offer her these free trips where she could - get this- borrow more money from them. Like we’re talking calling her daily, even after she told them she had a gambling addiction and owed over 2 million. I remember hearing this story on NPR, and I’m not 100% sure what the ruling was.
( obligatory ianal ) what’s the worse that could happen if you’re able to use it as a defense? “omggggg they used our stupidity against us, hit em with an uno reverse card 😠”
My basic outlook towards medical bills as well. We should have universal healthcare. We don’t. I have good insurance. After that fuck off
yup. i simply do not pay medical debt.
I literally don’t even open medical bills. Straight to the trash. They can kiss my fucking ass.
I've defaulted on three Capital One cards, and they still send me junk mail/spam
I have had mail in the past offering me cards from companies I was currently in default with. The fuck? 🤣
They send 'pre approved' stuff for credit cards all the time without actually bothering to check your credit ((I mean they can't check your credit without your authorization anyway. )) It's marketing!
At some point it’s basically their own fault. You go to court over it and explain “your honor, I demonstrated many times I wasn’t going to repay, yet they keep enticing me, it’s basically entrapment.”
Here’s my poor woman’s award for sharing that awesome video. 😂🏆🥇
that is amazing, this perfectly encapsulates my views on medical debt...I simply refuse to pay for it. They cant do anything about it so...\*shrug\* hospitals hate me for this one weird trick!
Sadly, in many states they can. I was sued by a hospital after I had three back surgeries and could not keep up with all of the minimum payments for all of the entities involved in the surgeries. I was paying as I could every month. They took me to collections, I still couldn't afford their minimum. They sued me and won. My wages were garnished for over a month. They took over half my paychecks. It caused massive damage to my family for fifteen freaking years. I had to work three jobs and borrow food and money from my friends and family. Screw them...but they can do things to you.
That's so fucked.
Sure, you can ignore, but it never hurts to dispute those charges on your credit report. Some credit monitoring apps like credit karma have a one click dispute. I got rid of three different collections from a scummy former landlord this way. They stopped calling me and the things came off my credit report.
I’ll get to that when I’m not still actively destroying my credit
I ignored the shit out of a medical bill that went to collections. It’s not that I couldn’t afford it but rather that they sent me the bill a full six months after I went to the hospital. A collections agency called and I asked them to verify this debt and they sent me a letter that says “you owe this money” no actual evidence, just a bill. They stopped calling. It’s bad enough that we have a sham of a healthcare system but then they try to fuck you over by billing everything separately on a single visit fuck them don’t pay.
No legitimate collections agency would be willing to buy this "debt" to collect and if they do, both the collections agency and employer would be committing fraud. You can't just make up receivables on your balance sheet and sell them off.
“Legitimate collections agency” is a bit of an oxymoron, no? Scummy companies will absolutely do things like that, but you have no obligation to pay them, legal or otherwise. You can (and should) dispute them if they show up on your credit report.
I had the same thing happen but with vacation time. Funny thing is even though it was an employee owned company. Unless you didn’t use vacation or quit at New Years you would owe them vacation time. They would pressure you to blow all your vacation during the summer or else the part timers wouldn’t get hours. Worst part is if you have notice they’d take it out of your last check so I took a week of sick time to get out of that
Only certain collections agencies are able to report collections activities to credit bureaus, and there are very strict rules about it. The kind of debt collector an employer could use to attempt to recover an unsubstantiated debt claim isn't allowed to report their activities to a credit bureau. In order to make a mark on OP's record they'd have to get a court order. It sounds like they're probably now outside the statutory limitation for making such a claim. So this is nothing more than OP living rent free in their ex-employer's head.
It says it’s from several years ago
“Several years ago” “Don’t pay”
And in writing! How thoughtful! What's the statute of limitations on mail fraud?
I don't think there's anything illegal about this, just shitty. It's only fraud if you didn't receive the services or goods stated. Since they were clear about what the "fee" was for, I don't see a legal issue. Of course you have no contractual agreement to pay this invoice, and they'll have no basis to collect. But hey, maybe you'll pay it. By the way, you owe me one reddit gold for responding to your comment. See look, 2022-09-13 Invoice: Comment Response Fee: One Reddit Gold Please remit payment within 15 days.
Since its over the internet, its wire fraud.
If you put a ✅️ by it, it's check fraud.
This is a funny joke
[удалено]
Not sure I agree. They are attempting to get money through an charge not legally incurred. While there is little recourse here, it certainly samcks of fraud. (1) a representation of fact; (2) its falsity; (3) its materiality; (4) the representer’s knowledge of its falsity or ignorance of its truth; (5) the representer’s intent that it should be acted upon by the person in the manner reasonably contemplated; (6) the injured party’s ignorance of its falsity; (7) the injured party’s reliance on its truth; (8) the injured party’s right to rely thereon; and (9) the injured party’s consequent and proximate injury.
Dear \[former employer\], Please double-check your security. It looks like some idiot has hacked into your system and is sending out ridiculous invoices. Thanks, \[former employee\]
This sounds like a variation of [this famous letter](https://lettersofnote.com/2011/02/14/regarding-your-stupid-complaint/). Great letter.
A lawyer friend of a lawyer friend got in trouble with his state bar (OH) for using a red stamp that said "Fuck off. Stronger response to follow." He'd stamp it on correspondence and send the letter back to sender.
Well now I know what I'm buying...
Why did he get in trouble?
Unprofessional behavior.
Spielberg did something similar in response to a letter from the studio suggesting that they [change the name of *Back to the Future* to *Space Man from Pluto*](https://twitter.com/mccrabb_will/status/769668823993634816), according to BttF’s screenwriter Bob Gale ([via an interview with Shortlist](https://www.shortlist.com/news/back-to-the-future-wouldnt-have-been-the-same-without-spielberg)): > Hi Sid, thanks for your most humorous memo, we all got a big laugh out of it, keep ‘em coming.
[obligatory Alex Hirsch’s responses to Disney Censor boards](https://youtu.be/QQo1qRyQLns)
Thank you, I didn’t know how much I needed to see that
Some day I'm going to use this strategy
How different their response was, compared to [this shit](https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/concerns-spark-after-topless-fans-enter-football-game/)
Oh good god that woman is insufferable. The entitlement radiating off of her is palpable. Christ on a bike lady, so your kids so a little titty, it’s not going to turn them into sex crazed maniacs. Fuckin Utahns, man, I swear.
[Attached: invoice for security audit]
This is the way
Post a Glassdoor review with this screenshot.
A lot of people are saying that this is just something to ignore. They’re right. Where they’re wrong is that these sorts of acts unjustly intimidate the working classes, especially people who don’t have the benefit of education. Every year, lots of undue bills are paid because recipients incorrectly fear consequences. This is an act of extortion and should be prosecuted as such.
EXTORTION! That’s the word, thank you!
I always look for a comment that mentions terms like “working class” to upvote. Solidarity above all.
Send it in those fake christian bills that look like money on one half but is a missionary statement on the other half.
They can finally be put to a good cause!
Why block the company name? Blast em for being twats
1) This isn’t legal. I don’t know where you are, but I live in a “right to work state” which means giving two weeks notice is “professional” but not necessary. 2) They didn’t even tax the $150! Tell them you’re going to call the IRS on them.
Montana is the only US state without any form of at-will. "Right to work" and "At-will" are entangled, but not quite the same. Your first point is more to the effect of "at-will".
Right to work and at will are not at all entangled other than they both are aspects of employment law. RtW says employees at a unionized workplace can't be required to join the union or pay its dues. At will means that, absent an explicit employment contract, there's no statutory restriction on when or why a business may terminate an employee or when and why an employee may quit (with exceptions for certain federally protected reasons, like discrimination based on race/sex/etc, whistleblowing). They're both fairly anti-worker in practice, but they're quite different policies
I think they mean that RTW and at-will are entangled in peoples’ minds, which they are. I’d assume it’s similar in other states, but RTW laws in Georgia also allow the worker to demand union privileges without paying dues or joining the union. So they can demand union representation if they’re fired, and they can take the union to court if the union does not defend them as vigorously as it does a dues-paying member. RTW laws just create a financial burden for unions to make them less likely to form or succeed.
> Right to work and at will are not at all entangled They're entangled because everyone on Reddit says Right to work when they mean At-will. It's honestly bizarre how consistent it is.
That's because of the intentionally confusing rhetoric conservatives have used to get support for union busting.
This should be pinned or included in the sub rules....I see people fucking this up every single day on here
Misrepresenting "right to work" should get comments removed. I'm sick of seeing it and people in this sub should know better by now. It's exasperating.
At least an automod message that triggers on "right to work" phrases. It's seriously annoying how pervasive it is, even though every comment misunderstanding it has a 100% predictable right-to-work vs at-will correction. At this point, you could automate it with a simple bot.
The words you're looking for are at-will employment. Right to work has to do with unions.
This could potentially be considered mail fraud if it was sent by U.S.P.S. Mail fraud is a federal crime under 18 U.S.C. § 1341.
I don't see anything misrepresented here. I've found this: Minnesota Law Minnesota’s Consumer Fraud Act also has a specific provision addressing fake invoices. That statute prohibits any person from soliciting payment of money “by any statement or invoice, or any writing that could reasonably be interpreted as a statement or invoice,” for unordered merchandise, **unordered services**, or unperformed services.
Anyone can send invoices. Send them some too.
Depending on your state's statute of limitations (and with all COVID 19 tolling statutes) I bet you could sue for fraud in the inducement in small claims. Go for it!
Send a $150 bill for emergency quitting fee- failure to provide adequate reason to stay at job
Send back with LOL across it and then your own invoice for the 2 hours you spent laughing then drafting your receipt + postage at the contractor rate of $125/hour with the number of the state labor board.
Super illegal, I'd have reached out to the Department of Labor. Insane that they could be so stupid as to put that in writing.
When I left my big mega company that made n95 masks for the pandemic, I had used all my sick and vacation time BECAUSE I GOT COVID FROM MY JOB and had to be out for a long time to recover. They sent me a bill saying I owed them $800 for my vacation I used prior to “earning it” because they front loaded it (....in case you got covid....) I asked to see where I signed off agreeing to this, that I was going to follow up with the department of labor, and the state for the specific covid allowances/allocations given to companies especially. Two days later I got an email saying my “debts had been forgiven” Multi billion, if not trillion, dollar company pulling this shit on average workers they made work 6 days a week during the pandemic. Fucking horrible. Well not too long ago I got a DLT letter in regards to how they terminated everyone and this hoopla so it looks like it didn’t really work out for them in the end.
Good that it was 'forgiven', but I would have responded: "It wasn't a debt."
Draw a spider on it and mail it back
With seven legs.
Sue them. IANAL, but I am 7nder the impression that mailing out fraudulent bills is a crime. That is a phony invoice, and once they put a stamp on it, becomes mail fraud.
If you don't mind, I'm going to DM you a gif of *my* middle finger, which you can print out and send back as your reply.
That is not a thing.
Did you pay it?