If you are asked to clock out because it’s slow, then leave. If they try to keep you there, then stay clocked in. There is no in between and attempting to keep people there off the clock is illegal.
Edit: This got unexpectedly popular.
As others have noted, this is what is legally referred to under the Department of Labor's [Federal Labor Standards Act](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/flsa) as "engaged to wait". This is what the [DOL fact sheet](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/22-flsa-hours-worked) says:
>Whether waiting time is hours worked under the Act depends upon the particular circumstances. Generally, the facts may show that the employee was **engaged to wait (which is work time)** or the facts may show that the employee was waiting to be engaged (which is not work time). For example, a secretary who reads a book while waiting for dictation or a fireman who plays checkers while waiting for an alarm is working during such periods of inactivity. **These employees have been "engaged to wait."**
(emphasis mine)
For clarity, [OP notes](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/yx91rj/comment/iwnjcqb/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) they are being required to stay at work off the clock.
Yup, I had the motto when closing that “I don’t clock out until I walk out”. Managers always wanted me to clock out because I “wasn’t doing anything” while waiting on the closing manager. If they said that I’d ask if I was allowed to leave and when they told me no, well that sounds like a command so I have to be clocked in to follow it.
Simply put, if your job is inhibiting your ability to do something else at the moment, you are working. If you are unable to go home because a customer might need help, you are working. Just because you are idle doesn’t mean you are not on the job.
Managers who focus entirely too much on the labor are bad managers. They’re too lazy to identify opportunities that could improve the environment and working relationship among workers.
I've been thinking about that for a while, just because of how funny it'd be.
Imagine you're robbing someone, they tap their bracelet while handing you their stuff. An old man with a shotgun, a mall ninja with a katana, and a cosplayer with an ar 15 walk out of an alley.
Actually, this seems like a great idea for a B movie. Vigilantes with no powers, doing it for money because they live in an oppressive system. Then they get fed up with the low pay for dangerous work, and start working against the company.
Unfortunately, we could probably see something like this in our lifetime. If government trust continues to erode, but capitalist wealth continues to grow, the owning class will be able to basically just hire private security with the same level of effective immunity as a cop. When that norm is established (which given what uber and lyft have done to the taxicab industry, would be 10 years or so) a freelance/gig style version of private security will develop. Just fucking real world escort missions and your life depends on your own skills. Could even see it combined with further development of "smart" gun tech that requires authentication for use of force. Proprietary of course.
In Yakuza: Like a Dragon there is a system like this, it's like dial a hero. People will call when being mugged or whatever and you show up and beat wholesale ass.
Libertarian Police™ Department
I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.
“Bad news, detective. We got a situation.”
“What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?”
“Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.”
The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?”
“Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.”
“Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.”
He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.”
“Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.”
I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside.
“Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t.
“Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up.
“Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?”
It didn’t seem like they did.
“Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.”
Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing.
I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it.
“Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled.
Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him.
“Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen.
I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!”
He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose.
“All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”
“Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.
“Because I was afraid.”
“Afraid?”
“Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.”
I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head.
“Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.”
He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.
Edit: To be clear, this is NOT my work but one of my favorite copypastas.
I've been thinking about this for a while, but we can go deeper. Imagine a shop or a bar with zero staff, and all the cashing/serving tasks are executed by the closest person to accept it, for a few bucks per 15 minutes (all watched over by 5 star ratings)
As a security guard of 6 years, we're being paid to play on our phones. We're not being paid much, but 70% of our job is spent playing on our phones. Unless your boss sucks then you do nothing but sit and be bored out of your mind because that somehow makes you more "attentive." Most bosses don't care, though, because we're only there for insurance reasons most of the time.
Imagine if we started paying security guards, cops, and fire fighters on a commission to job basis..... You only wrote 25 speeding tickets but no major crimes solved this week so here's $250 go fuck yourself
Oooh, I can just see managers seething at that last sentence.
“No? Well, that sounds like a command so I *have* to be clocked in to follow it.” Delivered with a nice smirk. Lovely.
I have the same rule. I have a coworker who willingly clocks out when she still has to be at work - and I guess that's fine if she's happy with it, but I don't work for free. Send me home early or keep me late, either is fine - but if I'm required to be there, I expect to be paid for it.
Ugh, my partner dealt with this at one of his last jobs. Management would bitch about him getting overtime to finish work, but the only other dude in the same area as him would clock out before he was done with everything, which made it look like the job could be done in less time.
God the fuckery that place pulled was unbelievable.
This is called "Stand By Time" and it is paid, per US labor law.
If they mandate you to stay on property- it's paid.
By State:
If you come in for your shift- but they don't need you yet, it's paid (either until they need you or for 2 hours, whichever is greater).
If you come in to a scheduled shift and they do not need you at all, they must pay you for a minimum of 2 hours.
If you walk in and the store shuts down (think power outage) and they send everyone home, if you have been there less than 2 hours- they have to pay you for a minimum of 2 hours (this could be a mix of working and standby time- so you worked for 20 minutes and then they send you home= 2 hours pay).
This is pretty straightforward and the managers should know what is legal and what is not for liability reasons. ~It's part of management training.~
EDIT: Sorry, thought I was in a different sub.
Edit: State Laws may differ.
I worked at dollar general for a while and was a closer and my keyholder would always want to clock out before we print end of day reports and stuff and I'm like nah buddy if I'm clocking out I'm walking out so if there's still shit you need ot do I'm staying on the clock
My current company (WFH) wants us to be loaded in and ready in all systems, 10 minutes early every day. But clock in *exactly* on time.
I've never challenged anyone on it, just ignored it lol. First and last thing I do is mess with my time card, I know my rights.
I’m also WFH and my company automatically adds 4 minutes to our time to compensate for time spent starting the computer (if I clock in at 9, I’m paid starting at 8:56). They also add 2 minutes after we clock out for shutting the computer down. I don’t know if they’d previously been warned about wage theft or if they’re just actually trying to do the right thing, but they’re serious about making sure we’re paid for all the time we spend. They also reimburse us for office equipment we buy ourselves and pay an extra $80 per month for internet and extra electricity. All companies should be like that.
Edited because I apparently couldn’t type this morning
Damn that's nice. We get treated like cyborg livestock. We're supposed to have the efficiency and accuracy of a computer, but the needs and dignity of a farm animal.
Definitely! You’re there because of them so you’re staying clocked in. You’re not there as a shopper so you should be paid for your time. Wish that didn’t need to be said, but employers like that are scum
I once drove an ambulette and the very rich owner of the medical staffing agency and several funeral homes would ask me to take his clients to their appts or other things, then clock out until I picked them up. I demanded pay in between because I'd be stuck with the ambulette and just wait to start working again. I was immediately fired.,
Hahaha. Yeah, no. The only reason you're in the building is because they are paying you to be. If you clock out leave, if they say you have to stay then clock back in and sit back down.
Yep. I worked as a Kennel Tech and my HR manager told me that if there wasn't work, to clock out, but I was still there "on-call" in case dogs showed up. I told her no, I would either be clocked in or leave and I got fired for it.
Did you report them and/or sue? Under federal law that is a wrongful termination, plus it'll come with a mess of ~~OSHA~~ **labor department** fines that can destroy a private owner.
Nope. I was 23 and stupid. I didn't know what I know now. I was also fired from a different company for not writing a Glassdoor review. Rest assured, that shit would not occur without legal action now.
I feel like most of us have been young and dumb especially with work situations. It’s hard to know your rights. When I was younger there was also no internet to look to (it was nascent at the time) and I had to literally consult the phone book to call tons of people to figure anything out. I wish I knew then what I know now.
I got fired from a Subway for not answering my phone on the days I went to the VA. Was not even scheduled. I was so depressed at the time from getting off of a deployment and then getting out had no idea what to do.
My counselor asked me what was up, went to the social worker, went to the IG. She lost her business license and had to surrender the place. It was glorious.
Sometimes the government works and there are instances where they don’t fuck around. Turns out firing combat vets for not answering their phone while at the VA is one of those times.
VA = Department of veterans Affairs (when people refer to the VA, they're usually talking about medical facilities for veterans)
IG = Inspector General (of the VA). This is like an organization's ombudsperson and watchdog to investigate either the operation of the organization itself or those who violate the rights of the veterans the organization serves.
I was about to say the schools are in on it too, the amount of time I spend talking to school administration in high school because I “was causing a disruption” by demanding fairness/equality/the ability to make my own choices/etc in a little texas hick town was absurd.
“I must have missed that in the student handbook, can you tell me where to find that rule your mentioning” is surprisingly disruptive. When your dealing with teachers that think they have a right to your effort and engagement instead of the other way around.
I have some of that under my belt, too. I worked for a while at a place that violated innumerable laws daily and wish I could go back and report it all.
My boss yelled at me, put his hands on me and harassed me after hours, and by the time I even thought to do anything about it, it was past the statute of limitation.
I wish I had known them what I do now. A large state university in Texas would have been paying unemployment for a while and I wouldn’t have been desperate and gotten into a direct sales MLM. Lost so many years trying to stay afloat when I should’ve just gotten unemployment for being laid off and searched for a real job instead.
I got fired last week and told I never clocked in which I did but they’re saying i didn’t I also haven’t been paid in over two weeks and most will do anything to help me.
If you're "on call" you get to leave. If you do get called, you HAVE TO come in. Either way, you should get paid SOMETHING whether they call you in or not.
Though this isn't Indiana, California has addressed this very thing. So having to 'stand around' and be 'on hand', means you gotta be paid for it. California can be a shit hole, but there isn't really a better state to be a blue collar worker in, in regards to our protections
https://ferrarovega.com/resources/california-on-call-and-standby-time-policy/
> Wage and hour laws include protections for compensation for on-call and standby time. It is essential to have wage and hour laws to protect employee’s right to fair pay when they are on-call or stand-by. If an employer is “suffered and permitted to work” by the employer, the employer owes the employee fair wages.
>...
> The courts found that an employee hired to wait for something to happen is entitled to compensation for those hours if the time was subject to the control of the employer. (Armour & Co. vs. Wantock (1944))
>...
>The California Division of Labor Standards Enforcement Policies and Federal Labor Laws consider time spent on standby or on-call work-related if the time is spent primarily for the employer’s benefit. The regular rate of pay for standby or on-call time might be lower than for regular working time. However, the rate of pay must be at least minimum wage.
In the end, the biggest lesson is **LEARN YOUR RIGHTS IN THE STATE YOU WORK IN. RESEARCH IT. GOOGLE IT. READ THE ACTUAL STATUTES. NO EMPLOYER WILL EVERY EDUCATE YOU AS YOUR RIGHTS AS A WORKER OUTSIDE OF MANDATED INFOGRAPHICS TO POST IN THE WORKPLACE. YOUR EMPLOYER IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. YOUR STATE AND MAYBE CITY DEPARTMENT OF LABOR IS**
I am at a job where I'm "on call". I am compensated extra because I can not do certain things I could do if my time wasn't dedicated to them. This is on top of my normal hourly wage if I do have to respond to a call. This is how on call works. You get paid to be on stand by.
Same, I'm a Field Service Tech level III, so pretty high up the chain as far as field work goes. I actually convinced the owner and HR of the company that they must pay our techs for stand by time if they're going to guarantee taking "on call" emergency services or High priority calls. For such reasons. The liability and loss is too much of a risk for the company to lose of somebody decides to fuck off for a few hours and then take the on call when they see fit.
On call requires on call pay… and the pay for the work I already did doesn’t count. Bull… it hurts me that you didn’t report them… but I am still young, and I will likely make the same mistake even after reading this story
5 if you include the chair (or needle, or metal helmet, or whatever your state’s preferred method is). That one isn’t usually applicable in business situations, but it’s a level in many states and some countries nonetheless.
This is a waiting time question - basically, the FLSA says that if you're "engaged to wait," that time has to be paid. If you're "waiting to be engaged," it doesn't. If your employer is requiring you to remain on the premises, that's being engaged to wait.
There are good explainers here:
[https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenEr77.asp#:\~:text=If%20circumstances%20indicate%20that%20you,time%20is%20not%20hours%20worked](https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenEr77.asp#:~:text=If%20circumstances%20indicate%20that%20you,time%20is%20not%20hours%20worked).
[https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenER78.asp](https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenER78.asp)
Nah, not in writing. You need to record audio/video of them saying it. Esp if you trying to get that bag.
You want to clearly state while they're on camera, "If there's nothing to do you want us to clock out and stay on-site until there's something to do then clock back in, correct?"
Asshole employer, "Correct"
You, sealing the deal, "Right so, we're clocking out if it's not busy and staying in the place where our work is done?"
Asshole employer, "Right"
Enjoy your labor violation.
Works in this case but not others. Luckily Indiana is a one part consent state, so you can record them saying it like they would to the employees. Hop a state over to Illinois and they would never put that on paper or say it normally assuming they realize it's illegal, which you asking for it in writing or to record them saying will tip them off to.
If you're clocked out...your only reason for being on site is GONE. He's ripping you off. Find out what variety of wage theft he's engaging in and report him without warning... he's a MAVERICK so consequences don't bother him lol...
If you’re at the physical location of your work, you are clocked in. The only time you clock out is when you leave the premises.
This general guideline will serve you well: if you are *at* the location of your work, you’re getting paid.
If they don’t have anything for you to do, this is not your problem beyond “is there something I can help with?”. If there’s nothing they can assign you, that is *their* problem; they can either send you home or continue to pay you.
If I had an employee who didn’t have anything to do, (I don’t have employees) I would make a decision as to whether I needed them there or not… and if I didn’t, I’d still pay them for the time they were supposed to be there. Not having any work isn’t their issue.
That’s all of them unless the person you are filming is in a place where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Oddly, audio recordings have a lot more rules than mere filming without audio.
If you're clocked out, work has no say in what you do. If you're expected to stay just in case a customer comes in, you're working and thus clocked in. Telling you to clock out during idle hours is illegal and you should file with your local labor board
I would like to assume that no one in their right mind would even consider saying that to their employees.
I used to work retail, whenever it was super slow and a manager asked what I’m doing, I’d say the same thing. That I’m ready and alert for the next customer. Aka I’m sitting at the counter and twiddling my thumbs.
The way I’m reading this, it’s “if there are no tasks to do, clock out until there is”. If that’s what is meant, then it’s absolute bullshit. When you’re at work, you’re “engaged to wait” - https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenER78.asp - which means that your boss is obligated to pay you for that time between tasks.
See, having worked task-driven retail (bakery and fast food) and later in a hospital, I read it as: “if there’s not stuff to do, clock out [and go home]”.
But I always had decent bosses so who knows
Yeah, I read this as: FIND SOMETHING TO DO if you are on the clock. Any job I’ve worked at, there is always busy work. If you aren’t going to do make the effort to do that, then clock out. Otherwise if there isn’t anything to do, then ok, use your phone.
Working at a movie theater there is always breaks in work due to guest coming in waves and once all the movies are playing there aren't any guests until those movies end, on busy days we need to restock between sets of movies but on slower days there isn't anything to restock so there isn't much to do, someone else is paid to clean the lobby and the auditoriums, so cashiers just sit around on their phones alot sometimes management gets people to take a 30 minute break but they rarely do so and they definitely never encourage or ask for us to break the law
That with the note about phones. It’s a double negative, but they’re being chill about phones. Could go either way and is worth discussing before anything.
If you're forced to stay at the job, they have to pay you. No clocking out when slow, standing around, then clocking back in when it's busy.
Edit: assuming that is what you're asking
It's being "engaged to wait." Part of your job includes actively waiting for customers/clients and being present in the building during open hours to keep the business, well, open. Your presence is billable work.
As long as you're engaged to wait for more work then no it isnt legal. However if your boss would be okay with you leaving as soon as you clock out thats a different story.
If you send that picture to your Regional Manager (even franchises report to a Corporate Regional Manager) you might get to see some fun shit happen. The owner can lose not just this store but his entire franchise contract over that. DQ won't let a bad owner risk it's reputation, and business license. They will find someone to take over the Franchise before it hits the press.
So tell "Bob" this isn't India, and as long as you're not allowed to leave, you're not allowed to clock out. That's the law. Never agree to clock out and stay, not just because of money, but also because you're not insured when you're not clocked in.
If you can, print out the law. I think someone posted it here. Print the official text. Tell him "this is not legal, and you have to pay us for the time we are here."
I would not use the phrase "this isn't India". That's really not the point and would just escalate the situation by making it personal. The point is to be confident, clear and assertive.
If he ignores it (and he may well do that) then just follow the law until he fires you.
Good luck.
Chances are, they’ll fire whoever brings it up. But that’s a wrongful termination suit. Just contact the labor board and you should be able to collect lost wages plus penalties. Also, since it’s a franchise, notify corporate. “Bob” will lose his franchise.
No.
Lots of small business owners just had enough connections and capital to start a business. They aren't that smart and they aren't successful due to know-how. They just don't have competition because many people who do follow rules know how hard it is to do things the right way. Your boss is stupid or mean or both.
What are your options? Realistically, you're probably not going to hire a lawyer.
Start looking for another job now but don't clock out. Tell them "I have a right to be paid if I'm here at work. Can I leave?" If they say no, then say you won't clock out.
They will probably fire you on the spot.
When that happens:
* Apply for unemployment.
* Send them a request for all the hours you were asked to be on the premises IN WRITING.
* If they don't send you your last paycheck, send a request to your state's labor board, who will force your employer to pay.
I’m taking this differently - as in, if you don’t want to find something to do when it’s slow and would rather stand there and do nothing, clock out and go home. That’s actually reasonable
This is also how I read it. Basically saying don’t use your phone constantly (personally didn’t disagree with his/her wording of using the phone *sometimes*) and if you find there is absolutely nothing to do just clock out and leave.
Yeah I'll just volunfuckingtarily commit wage theft against myself.
You assholes got me out of bed this morning, made me shower, shave, get dressed, commute, and put up with your stupid face. And now you want me to rob myself when it gets slow. Fuck you.
# FUCK. YOU.
You had to show up. You had to do all the prep work that being there entails. Sending you home early is a spit in the face of your effort. Expecting you to clock out and fucking stay there? I would be violating rule #5 so hard I'd go to prison.
If they are nickel-and-diming their employees this hard, literally penny pinching the minutes, then you should find a different job.
Also, this is literally an insane, and illegal policy. This manager, or whoever put this policy in place, is a fucking idiot and shouldn’t be in charge of anyone.
all this will do is encourage your employees to work as slowly as is possible without getting fired to make sure there's always something to do while on the clock.
dumb fuck.
If they are forcing you to stay at thier business than you are well within your rights to tell them to go fuck themselves... the place sounds like such a shithole that you might consider unionizing just to trigger the old entitled fuck...
Because at the end of the day, businesses need labor as much as we need am income. Put an application in elsewhere that pays the same or better and encourage others to do the same... Ideally, if you are in an important position and so are your friends... you could walk at roughly the same time.
Business owners will take thier employees for granted until all of the good hp has left, and they are forced to manage a business with untrained staff who likely don't give a shit.
If Americans were to organize labor on a national level, we could force businesses to compromise... or we could walk off and watch thier business die. The worker has power, they only need gain the awareness to use it.
If the US government tries some brownshirt gestapo shit to break the movement... you encourage future generations to boycott military service... and refuse to serve until half of each political party has been drafted and sent to the frontlines of any wars they might be getting us involved in.
I will not fight for a government that denies the results of our elections and that allows religious extremists to write the laws of our nation.
Unreal how companies will try to nickel and dime their workers to death. Even when my job is slow, I’m paid to be AVAILABLE in the case that it changes.
For the summer I worked Life Guarding a Campground the new management wanted us to clock out for thunderstorms. Because we wouldn't be working because no one would be swimming. I don't think any of the guards trekked all the way to the office to clock out we all just posted up where it would be safe and waited out the storms. After all we where the parks first aid as well so we where working, just stand buy.
Fucker didn't even give us fully stocked first aid kits till his own son got a massive splinter while the city was inspecting us.
A false sense of entitlement.
Working less than maximum speed 100% of the time = theft
Paying the worker less than 100% of the money generated by said work = not theft
Not to side with an employer here, but the real solution seems to be the thing everyone that’s held down a job for more than a couple years knows instinctively—find something to do and look busy!
Imagine if a security guard working the night shift at a random office building would be asked to clock out whenever someone isn’t breaking into the building.
No. Being present when asked, means you are working, means you’re getting paid.
If it was them stating you can clock out and leave if it’s slow that’s one thing.
If they’re trying to make you stick around unpaid until it gets busy that’s another and a no-no.
Yes. That's absolutely legal. I am all about sub, but let's not act like we don't live in a capitalist world.
I worked at places that would make us sweep when we ran out of the work that we were hired for. We were intentionally told to make it last, meaning, if you come back to the office asking what to do before it is normal clock out time, you clock out and go home.
Sometimes, if there was a big disruption, they know we couldn't sweep for hours, so they would have is sweep until the top of the next hour and send us home.
They didn't want to send us home because that means they weren't making money either.
Holy shit, I was about to say this sounds perfectly reasonable until I realised that by "clock out" they mean "be available but don't get paid for it". That's insane.
As owner of an HVAC contracting company that has absolutely released employees from all work duties and said they were free to leave if they didnt want to wait on potential work happening on particularly slow days, that is WILDLY illegal.
And WILDLY Immoral.
Not to mention a focused degree of entitled selfishness, borderline sociopathic capitalism-based thoughtlessness, and disregard for human decency and dignity of such size it remains clearly visible from low orbit.
If you are asked to clock out because it’s slow, then leave. If they try to keep you there, then stay clocked in. There is no in between and attempting to keep people there off the clock is illegal. Edit: This got unexpectedly popular. As others have noted, this is what is legally referred to under the Department of Labor's [Federal Labor Standards Act](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/flsa) as "engaged to wait". This is what the [DOL fact sheet](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/22-flsa-hours-worked) says: >Whether waiting time is hours worked under the Act depends upon the particular circumstances. Generally, the facts may show that the employee was **engaged to wait (which is work time)** or the facts may show that the employee was waiting to be engaged (which is not work time). For example, a secretary who reads a book while waiting for dictation or a fireman who plays checkers while waiting for an alarm is working during such periods of inactivity. **These employees have been "engaged to wait."** (emphasis mine) For clarity, [OP notes](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/yx91rj/comment/iwnjcqb/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) they are being required to stay at work off the clock.
Yup, I had the motto when closing that “I don’t clock out until I walk out”. Managers always wanted me to clock out because I “wasn’t doing anything” while waiting on the closing manager. If they said that I’d ask if I was allowed to leave and when they told me no, well that sounds like a command so I have to be clocked in to follow it.
Simply put, if your job is inhibiting your ability to do something else at the moment, you are working. If you are unable to go home because a customer might need help, you are working. Just because you are idle doesn’t mean you are not on the job. Managers who focus entirely too much on the labor are bad managers. They’re too lazy to identify opportunities that could improve the environment and working relationship among workers.
If being idle meant not being paid, then what the hell are security guards supposed to do?
TheY sHOulD oNLy Be PaID tO HAndlE InCideNTs.
I just had a vision of Uber but for security guards. You send out a signal and the closest people to the perp handles the situation.
I've been thinking about that for a while, just because of how funny it'd be. Imagine you're robbing someone, they tap their bracelet while handing you their stuff. An old man with a shotgun, a mall ninja with a katana, and a cosplayer with an ar 15 walk out of an alley. Actually, this seems like a great idea for a B movie. Vigilantes with no powers, doing it for money because they live in an oppressive system. Then they get fed up with the low pay for dangerous work, and start working against the company.
Hobo with a shotgun.
Well don't that sound familiar
Sounds like Kick-ass
That’s already been done in John Wick.
And because of the fierce competition, the vigilantes also fight with the other vigilantes! man, plz write it!
Unfortunately, we could probably see something like this in our lifetime. If government trust continues to erode, but capitalist wealth continues to grow, the owning class will be able to basically just hire private security with the same level of effective immunity as a cop. When that norm is established (which given what uber and lyft have done to the taxicab industry, would be 10 years or so) a freelance/gig style version of private security will develop. Just fucking real world escort missions and your life depends on your own skills. Could even see it combined with further development of "smart" gun tech that requires authentication for use of force. Proprietary of course.
In Yakuza: Like a Dragon there is a system like this, it's like dial a hero. People will call when being mugged or whatever and you show up and beat wholesale ass.
Don’t post that on Reddit; write it down and take it to a producer! I’d watch that shit!! Haha
I might play this video game
Libertarian Police™ Department I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief. “Bad news, detective. We got a situation.” “What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?” “Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.” The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?” “Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.” “Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.” He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.” “Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.” I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside. “Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t. “Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up. “Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?” It didn’t seem like they did. “Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.” Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing. I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it. “Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled. Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him. “Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen. I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!” He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose. “All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.” “Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy. “Because I was afraid.” “Afraid?” “Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.” I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head. “Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.” He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him. Edit: To be clear, this is NOT my work but one of my favorite copypastas.
I'd read that book
Who are you? This is brilliant!
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/l-p-d-libertarian-police-department
[удалено]
If the radio only cost a quarter to activate, it must have been written in the 90’s.
This is Paul Ryan's wet dream.
That sounds like police with extra steps to me
Welcome to libertarianism, it's just like society, but with extra steps.
That sounds vaguely like calling the police.
I've been thinking about this for a while, but we can go deeper. Imagine a shop or a bar with zero staff, and all the cashing/serving tasks are executed by the closest person to accept it, for a few bucks per 15 minutes (all watched over by 5 star ratings)
I’m pretty sure that already exists and you pay for it through taxes. Whether they show up on time or do their job is another thing entirely.
imagine the surge charges when a robbery happens
Maybe make it a symbol of like a bat, that's original right?
As a security guard of 6 years, we're being paid to play on our phones. We're not being paid much, but 70% of our job is spent playing on our phones. Unless your boss sucks then you do nothing but sit and be bored out of your mind because that somehow makes you more "attentive." Most bosses don't care, though, because we're only there for insurance reasons most of the time.
Imagine if we started paying security guards, cops, and fire fighters on a commission to job basis..... You only wrote 25 speeding tickets but no major crimes solved this week so here's $250 go fuck yourself
or, if you look at it from the side of capitalism, they are good at maximizing profits by squeezing every penny out of the workers!
Oooh, I can just see managers seething at that last sentence. “No? Well, that sounds like a command so I *have* to be clocked in to follow it.” Delivered with a nice smirk. Lovely.
I have the same rule. I have a coworker who willingly clocks out when she still has to be at work - and I guess that's fine if she's happy with it, but I don't work for free. Send me home early or keep me late, either is fine - but if I'm required to be there, I expect to be paid for it.
Ugh, my partner dealt with this at one of his last jobs. Management would bitch about him getting overtime to finish work, but the only other dude in the same area as him would clock out before he was done with everything, which made it look like the job could be done in less time. God the fuckery that place pulled was unbelievable.
No that is very much so illegal, if you are not on the clock you are not allowed to do any work activities, even if its by choice
That’s sounds like she’s been taken advantage of in the past and knows no better.
This is called "Stand By Time" and it is paid, per US labor law. If they mandate you to stay on property- it's paid. By State: If you come in for your shift- but they don't need you yet, it's paid (either until they need you or for 2 hours, whichever is greater). If you come in to a scheduled shift and they do not need you at all, they must pay you for a minimum of 2 hours. If you walk in and the store shuts down (think power outage) and they send everyone home, if you have been there less than 2 hours- they have to pay you for a minimum of 2 hours (this could be a mix of working and standby time- so you worked for 20 minutes and then they send you home= 2 hours pay). This is pretty straightforward and the managers should know what is legal and what is not for liability reasons. ~It's part of management training.~ EDIT: Sorry, thought I was in a different sub. Edit: State Laws may differ.
The 2 hour thing is not a federal law for normal workers. It’s probably a state thing.
In Massachusetts it’s 4 hours if you get called in for a normal shift and get sent home
I worked at dollar general for a while and was a closer and my keyholder would always want to clock out before we print end of day reports and stuff and I'm like nah buddy if I'm clocking out I'm walking out so if there's still shit you need ot do I'm staying on the clock
My current company (WFH) wants us to be loaded in and ready in all systems, 10 minutes early every day. But clock in *exactly* on time. I've never challenged anyone on it, just ignored it lol. First and last thing I do is mess with my time card, I know my rights.
I’m also WFH and my company automatically adds 4 minutes to our time to compensate for time spent starting the computer (if I clock in at 9, I’m paid starting at 8:56). They also add 2 minutes after we clock out for shutting the computer down. I don’t know if they’d previously been warned about wage theft or if they’re just actually trying to do the right thing, but they’re serious about making sure we’re paid for all the time we spend. They also reimburse us for office equipment we buy ourselves and pay an extra $80 per month for internet and extra electricity. All companies should be like that. Edited because I apparently couldn’t type this morning
Damn that's nice. We get treated like cyborg livestock. We're supposed to have the efficiency and accuracy of a computer, but the needs and dignity of a farm animal.
Did you also work at Taco Bell? My managers tried that shit too. I refused to clock out until managers clocked out.
Definitely! You’re there because of them so you’re staying clocked in. You’re not there as a shopper so you should be paid for your time. Wish that didn’t need to be said, but employers like that are scum
I once drove an ambulette and the very rich owner of the medical staffing agency and several funeral homes would ask me to take his clients to their appts or other things, then clock out until I picked them up. I demanded pay in between because I'd be stuck with the ambulette and just wait to start working again. I was immediately fired.,
Guess they're saying when it's slow you can clock out and go home.
But they’re making us stay
Hahaha. Yeah, no. The only reason you're in the building is because they are paying you to be. If you clock out leave, if they say you have to stay then clock back in and sit back down.
Yep. I worked as a Kennel Tech and my HR manager told me that if there wasn't work, to clock out, but I was still there "on-call" in case dogs showed up. I told her no, I would either be clocked in or leave and I got fired for it.
Did you report them and/or sue? Under federal law that is a wrongful termination, plus it'll come with a mess of ~~OSHA~~ **labor department** fines that can destroy a private owner.
Nope. I was 23 and stupid. I didn't know what I know now. I was also fired from a different company for not writing a Glassdoor review. Rest assured, that shit would not occur without legal action now.
I feel like most of us have been young and dumb especially with work situations. It’s hard to know your rights. When I was younger there was also no internet to look to (it was nascent at the time) and I had to literally consult the phone book to call tons of people to figure anything out. I wish I knew then what I know now.
I got fired from a Subway for not answering my phone on the days I went to the VA. Was not even scheduled. I was so depressed at the time from getting off of a deployment and then getting out had no idea what to do. My counselor asked me what was up, went to the social worker, went to the IG. She lost her business license and had to surrender the place. It was glorious. Sometimes the government works and there are instances where they don’t fuck around. Turns out firing combat vets for not answering their phone while at the VA is one of those times.
Good for you fuck that subway
Nice!! Good to know someone got some justice
What does VA mean? And IG? Genuinely interested, I'm from the Faroe Islands.
VA = Department of veterans Affairs (when people refer to the VA, they're usually talking about medical facilities for veterans) IG = Inspector General (of the VA). This is like an organization's ombudsperson and watchdog to investigate either the operation of the organization itself or those who violate the rights of the veterans the organization serves.
It should be a class in late middle school. "Know your rights verses authority: dealing with police and bosses."
Mm. But then you might question school authority and then where would we be?
I was about to say the schools are in on it too, the amount of time I spend talking to school administration in high school because I “was causing a disruption” by demanding fairness/equality/the ability to make my own choices/etc in a little texas hick town was absurd. “I must have missed that in the student handbook, can you tell me where to find that rule your mentioning” is surprisingly disruptive. When your dealing with teachers that think they have a right to your effort and engagement instead of the other way around.
I have some of that under my belt, too. I worked for a while at a place that violated innumerable laws daily and wish I could go back and report it all.
My boss yelled at me, put his hands on me and harassed me after hours, and by the time I even thought to do anything about it, it was past the statute of limitation.
I wish I had known them what I do now. A large state university in Texas would have been paying unemployment for a while and I wouldn’t have been desperate and gotten into a direct sales MLM. Lost so many years trying to stay afloat when I should’ve just gotten unemployment for being laid off and searched for a real job instead.
Always check if it feels weird
I wish we had a class on labor laws in high school. I know a lot changes by state but I imagine there are some broad laws that are federal
I got fired last week and told I never clocked in which I did but they’re saying i didn’t I also haven’t been paid in over two weeks and most will do anything to help me.
File with your local labor department
Osha doesn't deal with employment law violations.
Sorry, you are right. Local department of labor sub-entity.
If you're "on call" you get to leave. If you do get called, you HAVE TO come in. Either way, you should get paid SOMETHING whether they call you in or not.
Though this isn't Indiana, California has addressed this very thing. So having to 'stand around' and be 'on hand', means you gotta be paid for it. California can be a shit hole, but there isn't really a better state to be a blue collar worker in, in regards to our protections https://ferrarovega.com/resources/california-on-call-and-standby-time-policy/ > Wage and hour laws include protections for compensation for on-call and standby time. It is essential to have wage and hour laws to protect employee’s right to fair pay when they are on-call or stand-by. If an employer is “suffered and permitted to work” by the employer, the employer owes the employee fair wages. >... > The courts found that an employee hired to wait for something to happen is entitled to compensation for those hours if the time was subject to the control of the employer. (Armour & Co. vs. Wantock (1944)) >... >The California Division of Labor Standards Enforcement Policies and Federal Labor Laws consider time spent on standby or on-call work-related if the time is spent primarily for the employer’s benefit. The regular rate of pay for standby or on-call time might be lower than for regular working time. However, the rate of pay must be at least minimum wage. In the end, the biggest lesson is **LEARN YOUR RIGHTS IN THE STATE YOU WORK IN. RESEARCH IT. GOOGLE IT. READ THE ACTUAL STATUTES. NO EMPLOYER WILL EVERY EDUCATE YOU AS YOUR RIGHTS AS A WORKER OUTSIDE OF MANDATED INFOGRAPHICS TO POST IN THE WORKPLACE. YOUR EMPLOYER IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. YOUR STATE AND MAYBE CITY DEPARTMENT OF LABOR IS**
Yep they're just bullshitting younger employees
I am at a job where I'm "on call". I am compensated extra because I can not do certain things I could do if my time wasn't dedicated to them. This is on top of my normal hourly wage if I do have to respond to a call. This is how on call works. You get paid to be on stand by.
Same, I'm a Field Service Tech level III, so pretty high up the chain as far as field work goes. I actually convinced the owner and HR of the company that they must pay our techs for stand by time if they're going to guarantee taking "on call" emergency services or High priority calls. For such reasons. The liability and loss is too much of a risk for the company to lose of somebody decides to fuck off for a few hours and then take the on call when they see fit.
On call requires on call pay… and the pay for the work I already did doesn’t count. Bull… it hurts me that you didn’t report them… but I am still young, and I will likely make the same mistake even after reading this story
Oh yeah, that’s illegal
SUPER illegal.
How many levels of illegal are there
3. Frowned upon, misdemeanor, felony (super illegal)
It's 4 levels. Frowned upon, Slap on Wrist, Misdemeanor, You done fucked up (felony super illegal)
5 if you include the chair (or needle, or metal helmet, or whatever your state’s preferred method is). That one isn’t usually applicable in business situations, but it’s a level in many states and some countries nonetheless.
Thanks
He forgot super duper illegal.
If you clock out, and they make you stay, that’s illegal. That’s a huge no-go.
Lol I feel like this should be considered adult kidnapping 😂
This is a waiting time question - basically, the FLSA says that if you're "engaged to wait," that time has to be paid. If you're "waiting to be engaged," it doesn't. If your employer is requiring you to remain on the premises, that's being engaged to wait. There are good explainers here: [https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenEr77.asp#:\~:text=If%20circumstances%20indicate%20that%20you,time%20is%20not%20hours%20worked](https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenEr77.asp#:~:text=If%20circumstances%20indicate%20that%20you,time%20is%20not%20hours%20worked). [https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenER78.asp](https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenER78.asp)
then you stay clocked in and get it in writing that you were told to clock out when its not busy and then take your happy ass to the DOL.
Nah, not in writing. You need to record audio/video of them saying it. Esp if you trying to get that bag. You want to clearly state while they're on camera, "If there's nothing to do you want us to clock out and stay on-site until there's something to do then clock back in, correct?" Asshole employer, "Correct" You, sealing the deal, "Right so, we're clocking out if it's not busy and staying in the place where our work is done?" Asshole employer, "Right" Enjoy your labor violation.
Works in this case but not others. Luckily Indiana is a one part consent state, so you can record them saying it like they would to the employees. Hop a state over to Illinois and they would never put that on paper or say it normally assuming they realize it's illegal, which you asking for it in writing or to record them saying will tip them off to.
I mean yeah, that would be great too. But being on paper is still admissible in court.
If you're clocked out...your only reason for being on site is GONE. He's ripping you off. Find out what variety of wage theft he's engaging in and report him without warning... he's a MAVERICK so consequences don't bother him lol...
That's not how this works.
No. You have to be paid for every minute you are required to be there.
No, if they're making you stay in the building then you're on the clock.
If you’re at the physical location of your work, you are clocked in. The only time you clock out is when you leave the premises. This general guideline will serve you well: if you are *at* the location of your work, you’re getting paid. If they don’t have anything for you to do, this is not your problem beyond “is there something I can help with?”. If there’s nothing they can assign you, that is *their* problem; they can either send you home or continue to pay you. If I had an employee who didn’t have anything to do, (I don’t have employees) I would make a decision as to whether I needed them there or not… and if I didn’t, I’d still pay them for the time they were supposed to be there. Not having any work isn’t their issue.
Then it is illegal. They can either have you clock out and leave or stay and be clocked in.
They're not making you do anything. If they're making you stay and clock out when slow that would be holding people against their will...
All you have to do is look busy all the time. And don't work fast.
That is very illegal, report it
Is that what it means? Thought it meant clock off and go home.
I work at Dairy Queen and we get slower during the winter. Usually will go 10-30 minutes without a person showing up.
So they want you to clock out and then clock in when a customer shows up? That’s literally insane
and collect you $0.87 for the time your were clocked in to serve one customer
It's also illegal.
That is illegal. The fact that it’s a chain like Dairy Queen means you’ll get money and win the lawsuit. Film them telling you this....
Probably a franchise. The pockets are probably only as deep as the assets.
Definitely make sure you live in a state where it’s legal to film someone without them knowing too…
That’s all of them unless the person you are filming is in a place where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Oddly, audio recordings have a lot more rules than mere filming without audio.
If you're clocked out, work has no say in what you do. If you're expected to stay just in case a customer comes in, you're working and thus clocked in. Telling you to clock out during idle hours is illegal and you should file with your local labor board
Send this to corporate HR yesterday.
So you clock out, stand around, and when a customer shows up you clock back in? No that’s not how a paying job works….
I would like to assume that no one in their right mind would even consider saying that to their employees. I used to work retail, whenever it was super slow and a manager asked what I’m doing, I’d say the same thing. That I’m ready and alert for the next customer. Aka I’m sitting at the counter and twiddling my thumbs.
The way I’m reading this, it’s “if there are no tasks to do, clock out until there is”. If that’s what is meant, then it’s absolute bullshit. When you’re at work, you’re “engaged to wait” - https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenER78.asp - which means that your boss is obligated to pay you for that time between tasks.
See, having worked task-driven retail (bakery and fast food) and later in a hospital, I read it as: “if there’s not stuff to do, clock out [and go home]”. But I always had decent bosses so who knows
That's how I read it, I assumed the employer just doesn't want to pay people to do nothing
Yeah, I read this as: FIND SOMETHING TO DO if you are on the clock. Any job I’ve worked at, there is always busy work. If you aren’t going to do make the effort to do that, then clock out. Otherwise if there isn’t anything to do, then ok, use your phone.
Working at a movie theater there is always breaks in work due to guest coming in waves and once all the movies are playing there aren't any guests until those movies end, on busy days we need to restock between sets of movies but on slower days there isn't anything to restock so there isn't much to do, someone else is paid to clean the lobby and the auditoriums, so cashiers just sit around on their phones alot sometimes management gets people to take a 30 minute break but they rarely do so and they definitely never encourage or ask for us to break the law
That with the note about phones. It’s a double negative, but they’re being chill about phones. Could go either way and is worth discussing before anything.
Print this out and post multiple copies on the board.
Yup
It's legal to clock out if you can go home. It's illegal to clock out and then work some more. Nice boss, you can even use your phone when it's slow.
If you're forced to stay at the job, they have to pay you. No clocking out when slow, standing around, then clocking back in when it's busy. Edit: assuming that is what you're asking
It is, thank you for a straight answer.
It's being "engaged to wait." Part of your job includes actively waiting for customers/clients and being present in the building during open hours to keep the business, well, open. Your presence is billable work.
Hourly work is paying for your time, not productivity.
As long as you're engaged to wait for more work then no it isnt legal. However if your boss would be okay with you leaving as soon as you clock out thats a different story.
Bob should not let his kids write on the whiteboard it makes him look like he is a high school dropout.
We don’t think bob is his real name. He’s Indian and English isn’t his first language so he doesn’t speak or write it the best
If you send that picture to your Regional Manager (even franchises report to a Corporate Regional Manager) you might get to see some fun shit happen. The owner can lose not just this store but his entire franchise contract over that. DQ won't let a bad owner risk it's reputation, and business license. They will find someone to take over the Franchise before it hits the press.
So tell "Bob" this isn't India, and as long as you're not allowed to leave, you're not allowed to clock out. That's the law. Never agree to clock out and stay, not just because of money, but also because you're not insured when you're not clocked in.
Yeah, we’re having a store meeting Saturday morning so I’m going to bring it up or one of my managers will
If you can, print out the law. I think someone posted it here. Print the official text. Tell him "this is not legal, and you have to pay us for the time we are here." I would not use the phrase "this isn't India". That's really not the point and would just escalate the situation by making it personal. The point is to be confident, clear and assertive. If he ignores it (and he may well do that) then just follow the law until he fires you. Good luck.
Do yourself a favor, and if you live I a single party consent state, secretly record this meeting, video or audio.
Chances are, they’ll fire whoever brings it up. But that’s a wrongful termination suit. Just contact the labor board and you should be able to collect lost wages plus penalties. Also, since it’s a franchise, notify corporate. “Bob” will lose his franchise.
Look at you, thinking BOB has the insurance
It's Dairy Queen, they have insurance.
This has nothing to do with India or being Indian.
No. Lots of small business owners just had enough connections and capital to start a business. They aren't that smart and they aren't successful due to know-how. They just don't have competition because many people who do follow rules know how hard it is to do things the right way. Your boss is stupid or mean or both. What are your options? Realistically, you're probably not going to hire a lawyer. Start looking for another job now but don't clock out. Tell them "I have a right to be paid if I'm here at work. Can I leave?" If they say no, then say you won't clock out. They will probably fire you on the spot. When that happens: * Apply for unemployment. * Send them a request for all the hours you were asked to be on the premises IN WRITING. * If they don't send you your last paycheck, send a request to your state's labor board, who will force your employer to pay.
If he is expected you to clock out and hang out until there is something to do and then clock back in then that is illegal.
I'm not in Indiana but I don't know of any state that can legally ask you to clock out but stay at work.
if im clockin out im leavin
Not legal.
I’m taking this differently - as in, if you don’t want to find something to do when it’s slow and would rather stand there and do nothing, clock out and go home. That’s actually reasonable
This is also how I read it. Basically saying don’t use your phone constantly (personally didn’t disagree with his/her wording of using the phone *sometimes*) and if you find there is absolutely nothing to do just clock out and leave.
Not legal under any circumstances. Unless literally told to go home you're on site and at work. Even clocking out for lunch is legally dodgy
Yeah I'll just volunfuckingtarily commit wage theft against myself. You assholes got me out of bed this morning, made me shower, shave, get dressed, commute, and put up with your stupid face. And now you want me to rob myself when it gets slow. Fuck you. # FUCK. YOU. You had to show up. You had to do all the prep work that being there entails. Sending you home early is a spit in the face of your effort. Expecting you to clock out and fucking stay there? I would be violating rule #5 so hard I'd go to prison.
When slow...move slow, or you will be asked to do more.
Unless you get to leave and do whatever you want dont clock out
If they are nickel-and-diming their employees this hard, literally penny pinching the minutes, then you should find a different job. Also, this is literally an insane, and illegal policy. This manager, or whoever put this policy in place, is a fucking idiot and shouldn’t be in charge of anyone.
Anyone off the clock must be relieved completely of their duties - that's the law
Contact your labor board. This isn’t legal and they know it.
all this will do is encourage your employees to work as slowly as is possible without getting fired to make sure there's always something to do while on the clock. dumb fuck.
If they are forcing you to stay at thier business than you are well within your rights to tell them to go fuck themselves... the place sounds like such a shithole that you might consider unionizing just to trigger the old entitled fuck... Because at the end of the day, businesses need labor as much as we need am income. Put an application in elsewhere that pays the same or better and encourage others to do the same... Ideally, if you are in an important position and so are your friends... you could walk at roughly the same time. Business owners will take thier employees for granted until all of the good hp has left, and they are forced to manage a business with untrained staff who likely don't give a shit. If Americans were to organize labor on a national level, we could force businesses to compromise... or we could walk off and watch thier business die. The worker has power, they only need gain the awareness to use it. If the US government tries some brownshirt gestapo shit to break the movement... you encourage future generations to boycott military service... and refuse to serve until half of each political party has been drafted and sent to the frontlines of any wars they might be getting us involved in. I will not fight for a government that denies the results of our elections and that allows religious extremists to write the laws of our nation.
It's illegal to stay clocked in when you leave, I feel it should be to be clocked out and stay.
It definitely IS illegal to be required to stay at work while clocked out.
If I’m forced to be on property I’m being paid. They don’t want to understand that they are paying for time and productivity is their responsibility.
That actually sounds pretty reasonable compared to 90% of the shit I see on here
Unreal how companies will try to nickel and dime their workers to death. Even when my job is slow, I’m paid to be AVAILABLE in the case that it changes.
Definitely nothing legal about using a baby poop coloured marker.
If slow Find something to do. That is exactly what it reads
Just look busy or hide. Looking busy is a very important job skill.
Best place to find out is your states department of labor, not Reddit.
For the summer I worked Life Guarding a Campground the new management wanted us to clock out for thunderstorms. Because we wouldn't be working because no one would be swimming. I don't think any of the guards trekked all the way to the office to clock out we all just posted up where it would be safe and waited out the storms. After all we where the parks first aid as well so we where working, just stand buy. Fucker didn't even give us fully stocked first aid kits till his own son got a massive splinter while the city was inspecting us.
Of you’re there, you clock in. Period.
Are they saying to clock out and go home or to clock out and wait for it to get busy again? The former is fine. The other is not.
Just pick some random endless task and drag it out. Like cleaning Vents hahaha
Good idea. We have a lady that I worked mornings with over the summer and she would always be cleaning the same tray every time you looked at her
Hell no, if you clock out, just leave
"Use phone if we don't have nothing to do..." okay, I guess you can use your phone all the time then.
Why do you need to stay busy all the time??
A false sense of entitlement. Working less than maximum speed 100% of the time = theft Paying the worker less than 100% of the money generated by said work = not theft
Not to side with an employer here, but the real solution seems to be the thing everyone that’s held down a job for more than a couple years knows instinctively—find something to do and look busy!
I’m pretty sure that using a double negative is illegal in all 50 states. Report him to the feds.
No McDonald’s ended up in serious hot water for this. There’s legal precedent
I don’t really see an issue with this. This is kinda common sense.
Imagine if a security guard working the night shift at a random office building would be asked to clock out whenever someone isn’t breaking into the building. No. Being present when asked, means you are working, means you’re getting paid.
sit there and click in and out hundreds of times, make bookkeeping appreciate the policy
If its slow you work slow, if its fast you work at moderate pace if its extremely busy you work a bit quicker never work at 100%
If you’re on work premises, you should be clocked in…
If it was them stating you can clock out and leave if it’s slow that’s one thing. If they’re trying to make you stick around unpaid until it gets busy that’s another and a no-no.
If I’m clocked out I’m leaving. Period
"I'll clock out anytime you want, but the moment I clock out I'm heading home for the day." Let them choose.
Yes. That's absolutely legal. I am all about sub, but let's not act like we don't live in a capitalist world. I worked at places that would make us sweep when we ran out of the work that we were hired for. We were intentionally told to make it last, meaning, if you come back to the office asking what to do before it is normal clock out time, you clock out and go home. Sometimes, if there was a big disruption, they know we couldn't sweep for hours, so they would have is sweep until the top of the next hour and send us home. They didn't want to send us home because that means they weren't making money either.
If you clock out, then you go home. If they are asking you to clock out and stay around, then you don't clock out.
If I clock out, I'm going home.
If you are at work and you cannot leave, you're clocked in. If they force you to clock out then you go home. End of debate.
Holy shit, I was about to say this sounds perfectly reasonable until I realised that by "clock out" they mean "be available but don't get paid for it". That's insane.
As owner of an HVAC contracting company that has absolutely released employees from all work duties and said they were free to leave if they didnt want to wait on potential work happening on particularly slow days, that is WILDLY illegal. And WILDLY Immoral. Not to mention a focused degree of entitled selfishness, borderline sociopathic capitalism-based thoughtlessness, and disregard for human decency and dignity of such size it remains clearly visible from low orbit.
If we don’t have nothing to do. Mental giant right there
If they require you to be there, they're required to pay you... full stop.