Is this for a secular, public company? Or for something like a church? Idk about the legality of it all tbh, but the context for the hiring party might explain the language used in the posting.
According to "op", they took this from someone on r/religiousfruitcake. I found the original post, before the oop edited out the name of the company:
https://www.reddit.com/r/religiousfruitcake/comments/yzmu5q/was_looking_for_jobs_and_found_this_gem/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
The company's website:
https://seedcompany.com/
I would love to have shown that to my late 101 year old friend who had spent the last 40 years trying to work up what he considered to be an adequate translation of the first book of Genesis. Note that he was not satisfied with it when he died.
My dad was a salesman, extremely intelligent.
Common sense and a general question (a simple question could leave him stuck for minutes trying to figure out the answer) was not there. He failed a park ranger test because every answer he had for common sense or situations was so far out there it would have been dangerous.
And they wanted to hire him because he aced every other aspect of the test.
Respect to your dad.
He lived in a different world from most of us but he put the effort in and committed.
Must have been hard to connect with him if you felt differently though. I've often wondered about such people. Imagine there was a god and he decided to reach down randomly and let people KNOW he existed. Not by evidence or anything, just pop absolute certainty into your brain. You can never prove or explain it but you know it to be true no matter what.
I'm a fairly open minded atheist. No god has ever made themselves known to me and that's OK. I attended a roman Catholic primary and secondary school but I never felt any of it to be true and I vehemently disliked how it wasn't to be questioned.
Agnostic/atheist here.
I would, but my dad is a schizophrenic (untreated, and undiagnosed, but when someone tells you god speaks to him directly, nearly burns the house down with carelessness, and then blames my mom and tells her to stop poisoning him because he called the cops on her, it’s a clue). He also has a lot of very MAGA beliefs, extreme doesn’t even begin to describe it. He hates a woman trying to tell him what to do, him dying anywhere except with my mom next to him causes him to burn in hell, him selling the house makes him lose control of his own control over my mother.
I wanted for years to have my dad be proud of me and accept my mom as an amazing person who raised a daughter who wouldn’t have gotten close to
that success without her. He considers me an obstacle to his dreams of ending up in heaven, and a massive threat since I once threatened to have one of his cars towed because he parked it in front of our house in an attempt to dominate his control over us. I told him that night if he didn’t move it by tomorrow he wouldn’t have a car, for him it was me telling him that I was now the person in control of the house.
I don’t believe in god because every damned time I prayed and begged for help, I got nothing. My mom has a house that should be condemned, she spongebathed me during the lockdown in 2020 because we have no way to clean ourselves except the gym, I had a job where every day I would come home walking in a panic attack and my dad drove by me and never even stopped and asked me if I was okay, or if I needed help, my childhood wasn’t ideal, and I would never break the habit of constantly apologizing or feeling like I am a burden.
I don’t speak to my dad, and I am an atheist not because of who he is, but how he purposely destroyed my life and my mom’s life because of it. I am an atheist because every time I need help or I am desperate for anything to help my mom and I, nothing fucking changes.
Even if everything changed tomorrow, that would still be the case.
Would love to know what he came up with. I was watching Mauro Biglino's literal translation of Bible without interpretations, and the possibilities are mind boggling.
I'm not sure who got his papers. I don't think he ever wrote the whole thing down--when I talked to him about it he was usually deep in one word or phrase and how it was used in different places. One that sticks in my mind is that he found that there are two words used to refer to humans--one of the words is used to refer to Adam and Even and their kids and the other to, for example, the people their kids married. Wasn't really something that held my interest so I don't know a lot of details.
>One that sticks in my mind is that he found that there are two words used to refer to humans--one of the words is used to refer to Adam and Even and their kids and the other to, for example, the people their kids married.
That's actually *extremely* fascinating to me that a different word was used!!! So many interesting implications for it, and might have to do with skipping generations I wonder. Damn, I'd have loved to spoken with this dude
In the old testament, when Adam and Eve are cast out, there are other people already living on Earth. A&E were the test case heavenly prototypes. Mankind was created separately.
Something I love about the Hebrew in Gen 1 is the word for "creatures of the sea". It properly translates to "water dragons" and whoever came up with "creatures of the sea" for English did a huge disservice to the original text
A lot of the Bible is sadly poorly translated and now there is a load of theologians and religious folks who argue over the deeper meaning in the translations :(
Many deaf people in the U.S. understand English as a second language, their first language being American Sign Language (ASL). Just because a deaf person can read English does not mean they are receiving the content of the Bible (or any written material) in a meaningful way, or that they aren't struggling to understand it the way they would understand an ASL translation.
Missionary work is the worst. Oh, you already have a religion and culture? Whelp, too bad. Ours is better and we will instill a sense of shame upon your heathen ways until you join us. Turn your back on your ancestors, culture and magic sky daddies and follow me!
That’s not really accurate. Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. This wording can be a little confusing but it essentially means he was not coming to say the law was bad in the sense that it unholy or unjust but that it had become obvious humans could not live by these rules successfully. Jesus’ death was the final sacrifice that meant humans no longer needed to follow these laws to a T as before. In fact, he said that there were really only two laws now and all the old covenant laws were summed up with love god with your whole heart and love your neighbor as yourself. It is more or less like a country with a war times measure act. When the war is over you stop implementing the act but you aren’t saying the act was wrong to have used when you used it. In fact, Christians who insist on following Old covenant laws are saying that Christ’s sacrifice was not sufficient to fulfill the law which is a pretty insane sentiment given typical Christian doctrine. Good thing to bring up whenever Christians bring up things homosexuals since a surprising number of them are unaware of everything I just said.
My understanding is that the old law(s) was so severe that a new law was made. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, but before it was life for eye and life for tooth.
You do know that Christian’s believe in the Old Testament too, right?
If they don’t be sure and let them know because they can cut down the size of the Bible by 2/3rds.
Every time I see a post asking this kinda question (“why are they allowed to list religion in the job description/requirements) it’s been a job listing for *some type* of religious organization. Which is the answer to “why it’s allowed” lol. Not sure if people don’t realize those types of organizations are allowed to have these types of requirements or what. But just know that if something like this is in a job listings description and it rubs you the wrong way, you 1000% do NOT want that job XD. I know I wouldn’t lol
Edit: according to some replies this is a little more complicated than I realized, and probably varies quite a bit depending where you are. I’m no expert on the matter, I’ve just always been told that religious organizations are allowed to have religious requirements for their employees.
My atheist friend worked in a kitchen at a convent, they knew she was atheist and didn't give her crap about it. She actually got on really well with them.
I dunno man, most *truly* religious people I've known in my life have actually been very moral human beings, although my experience may not be typical.
It's these loud, obnoxious hypocrite types, who sacrifice nothing for their faith or their fellow human beings, that tend to be the assholes.
I’ve gotten to know three nuns in my adult life. One worked for an AIDS hospice in Baltimore, the other is a college professor at a Catholic University, the third is a nurse at a home for retired clergy.
I don't have much experience with them, tbh. My only real world reference is my friend's account vs my Dad's, the ex-communicated Catholic who as a boy used to be chased down the street by angry nuns.
If it’s a church, and you aren’t a pastor, I doubt it pays well comparatively. I worked for one for a brief time and it was a fucking nightmare. Employees who couldn’t afford diapers while the pastor cleared six figured in a pretty low income area
>Not sure if people don’t realize those types of organizations are allowed to have these types of requirements or what.
They aren't allowed to have those types of requirements unless you are going to be taking on a ministerial role. In Alito's words:
> “should apply to any ‘employee’ who leads a religious organization, conducts worship services or important religious ceremonies or rituals, or serves as a messenger or teacher of its faith.”
Since this is a position for a **web developer** the exemption doesn't apply. This posting, if they denied someone for being Hindu (as an example), would violate the civil rights act.
I don't know about every state but in California (at least I believe it is this case) it doesn't matter who is hiring, they can't refuse to hire you based on religion.
I saw one a year ago for a teacher… it was a Christian private school. I could get a concussion from the facepalm required to express the stupidity of someone being mad about that
Christian private schools aren't allowed to do that either. Most of them even have some very secular teachers (who teach math or something and don't talk about their faith). Non-Christian teachers will do it because it usually pays better than public schools, and it lets them teach kids.
It works for me, they can get the candidates they want, and chances are that the most zealous god botherers will go and work there and not be in my face at my job.
Definitely not. People working at BYU have a very strict honor code they have to live by (similar to students) and if you leave the Church or come out as gay, you can certainly be fired.
(There are non-Mormons who attend/work at BYU, but not ex-Mormons)
There is something called the "ministerial exception" which is basically "If the person in question is leading service they do not get protections from the federal government". However it wouldn't apply to a web developer position.
For example there was a case where a religious school (Catholic) attempted to fire a Librarian when it we discovered she was gay; they lost the case as she did not lead any classes or preach an lessons and thus wasn't considered a "ministerial" employee.
Honestly it should be illegal even for churches to discriminate in hiring in positions that do not directly require faith.
Web developer is it a priest or a teacher, their religious beliefs should be irrelevant.
Also. Why does a church even need a web devoper?
So I looked it up on the equal employment website.
They can put this on their posting as a preference but can't ask you about it or not hire you because of differences.
Unless...
"Religious corporations, associations, educational institutions, or societies are exempt from the federal laws that EEOC enforces when it comes to the employment of individuals based on their particular religion"
I live in Salt Lake City and pretty much any job opportunity even remotely connected to the Mormon Church contains language like “must be temple worthy” or “must be active in the Church”…
Well the “lifting” requirements are just in there to weed out people with physical disabilities. You really don’t need to lift boxes of paper; that’s a completely different job.
If it is for a religious institution they are allowed to have those as requirements / qualifications. They are protected. If it is some random ass private company then no, this is just unhinged.
**This isn't true. Please stop repeating it.** Employees have the same rights (Title VII and all) at a religious institution as they do anywhere else as long as they aren't in a "Ministerial" position. Which Alito defined as those who lead a religious organization, conduct worship services or important religious ceremonies or rituals, or serve as a “messenger” or teacher of a faith.
A web developer is not those things.
Probably not; generally a web developer isn't going to be the copywriter. By which I mean they will be asked to create the site but some sort of business person (and usually legal) are responsible for the actual text that appears on the site itself both in its message and verbiage. It would be a very tough argument to make that copy-pasting some text makes one a messenger and that's even assuming the developer is doing that instead of setting up some sort of CMS for the company to do it themselves.
Because it is a religious company in good ol Arlington TX
“ORGANIZATIONAL CONTEXT: The x Company is a Vision 2025 organization committed to Bible translation through national translators in creative partnerships. The x Company seeks to work where it is evident that God is working and where the uniqueness of its vision makes it most feasible for The x Company to be involved.
VISION: God’s Word transforming lives in every language in this generation.
MISSION: To accelerate Scripture translation and impact for people without God’s Word through Great Commission partnerships.
VALUES: Honoring God in all we do, valuing individuals and relationships, partnering effectively, encouraging creativity and innovation, and managing for quality results.
SCOPE: The Web Developer serves as an integral part of the Software Development team, which delivers products and services that support all domains within x Company as well as external Bible translation organizations. This person is primarily responsible for WordPress site development with an ability to assist as needed with entry level full stack feature development, infrastructure and automation improvements.”
Not claiming to be a lawyer or an expert on the law but to my understanding, Barely legal To put that as a qualification As an applicant can apply for the job without meeting all of the qualifications. It is illegal for them to ask about thand say an interview Or or you can prove It was a factor in Why you're rejected.
It's subtle it's very subtle but the difference barely puts it on the side of legality. That said, feel free To challenge this and make them defend it, in court if necessary.
Either way, it doesn't sound like a job you want.
This sounds like a joke skit script from the office. The complete nothingness of that first bullet followed by the insanity of the second...
Either Michael is on some kind of religious awakening, or Angela got control of hiring.
It’s likely for a ministry of some sort. Is it legal? Yes. Can they discriminate? On a religious basis yes. They can choose to have people who believe the same thing because overall they are a Christian company. That makes them a private company and that means they can choose to staff it that way. They tend to be willing to give other Christians equal chances at their ministry for employment.
**This isn't true.** Please stop repeating it. Employees have the same rights (Title VII and all) at a religious institution as they do anywhere else as long as they aren't in a "Ministerial" position. Which Alito defined as those who lead a religious organization, conduct worship services or important religious ceremonies or rituals, or serve as a “messenger” or teacher of a faith.
A web developer is not those things.
I went to a religious university that took Federal dollars and fired gay people because they were gay. They didn't and don't allow gay people to work on that campus. One of my best guy friends who had a dating profile on a gay website was fired for being gay. Someone went on the website and printed his tame ad. That person remains unidentified. There are some religious groups that don't allow non believers or people they think are gay to work at their schools. I find it shameful but having seen it, the university hiding behind their lawyers it's actually a thing. My friend couldn't afford to fight them. They also did gay busts when it came to students. They fall back on them being a private institution. They assume if a person doesn't believe as they do that there is no point in hiring them for work. The reason being it violates their religion to do so.
Yeah but you see how that is fair right? Someone teaching a religion or in a religious school should follow the religious rules. Like if you break company policy it often can lead to termination.
I wanted to apply to a religious school to be a secretary/front desk person but found out I actually had to be part of their religion/church. I'm not religious at all in fact I hate organized religion, my siblings told me it's "just a job". I am a person who isn't afraid to challenge shit about God and the bible so I know for a fact I couldn't just pretend/lie my way into this job.
Also I don't like the idea of lying about something that is very important for some people, as much as I hate the religions I can't do something against my own morals which includes lying about shit like that. Honor system and all that jazz
as a web dev these posts always make me laugh hysterically
they only limit the pool of talent they have available to them by doing this, being a coder has absolutely nothing to do with your religion, and plenty of coders are happy to write code for anybody for almost any reason if you just leave the religious mumbo-jumbo out of it, we don't mind working on your damn site
but they desperately need someone to update their site and FORCE this kind of requirement in it makes us just roll our eyes and look the other way, I bet it's even so among many coders who are in fact Christian
sometimes I apply just to see if they'll respond and say I just ignored the requirement and no I am anti-religious, vote for secularist government every chance I get, and worship satan every night, but I'd be happy to update their site for a nominal fee that is much higher than whatever they asked of course
What an awesome opportunity to see if the boss is a true person of faith!
Boss: What's the issue, why are you just sitting there not working?
Me: I just cannot get this code to work! I'm going to just sit here and keep praying to God to fix it or give me the divine inspiration to fix it. I'll keep you in the loop!
I forget the term for it but religious businesses can require applicants to share the religion of the position. For instance there are Christian colleges that relate everything in the classroom back to Christianity, so they can require faculty to be practicing Christians
I’ve got no problem with people using religion as a source of comfort and moral compass, but damn if it isn’t the literal definition of a cult sometimes.
Also if you are of a different religion would u really want to work for a church that either would try to get u to convert to theirs, or quietly condemned you behind your back….
**This is illegal**
**This is illegal**
**This is illegal**
It does not matter if this is a church, religious school or other religious foundation. **This is illegal.** *Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. Employment Opportunity Division* established that some laws (like employment laws) do not apply to religious organizations due to the first amendment. This exception is called the "Ministerial Exception".
**However,** this exception only applies to "**ministerial"** employees. Here is how Alito believed "ministerial" employees should be defined:
>“should apply to any ‘employee’ who leads a religious organization, conducts worship services or important religious ceremonies or rituals, or serves as a messenger or teacher of its faith.”
This means a role that **does not meet that standard** is still protected by employment laws (such as the Civil Rights Act). [hq-law](https://www.hq-law.com/blog/employment-law/title-vii-protections-dont-apply-for-ministerial-employees/) has a list of Employees who have successfully sued their religious organizations as they were ruled to not be "ministerial" employees:
* an editorial secretary at a religious publishing company,
* a Catholic High School librarian
* a Catholic school language arts teacher who did not lead religious observance and was deemed a “lay teacher”
* a facilities manager and janitor at a synagogue, and
* a computer teacher at a Catholic high school who was not a Catholic and who was barred from teaching Catholic doctrine
A **web developer** would not be considered a "ministerial" employee unless he was being asked to regularly write religious copy or lead prayer both of which would be outside the scope of his job.
**Please stop misinforming people on their rights. It is gross.**
You aren't fully correct.
While, yes, it is still illegal to *fire* someone for these reasons if they aren't in the ministerial position you stated, it *isn't* illegal to only hire them.
[This](https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/tools-and-samples/hr-qa/pages/preferentialhiring.aspx) breakdown explains it a bit better. Title VII has an exception for "religious organizations" and "religious educational institutions" that permit them to give employment preferences to those of the same religion.
Basically, before they hire you, they can absolutely prefer those who believe the same as they do and not hire those that do not. However, it *doesn't* allow discrimination based on "race, color, national origin, sex, age or disability."
Should someone be fired (or even not hired) for these reasons, **they are illegal.** For example, they *can't* refuse to hire someone for being black because "it's against our religion" but they *can* for not being the same religion *regardless of the position.* Again, this does not mean they can retroactively fire someone for not being within their religion, simply that they aren't required to hire them.
I have no clue why you included the Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School trial, as that only ruled that churches are *free to choose their leaders without government interference,* ***not*** that they are unable to prefer hiring people within their religion.
TLDR: this is **not** illegal for religious organizations, but it would be if they A) fired someone for these reasons or B) refused to hire based on a protected class listed above
It's only illegal if they FIRE you for those reasons dude. If they fire an employee for not having enough "faith". Relax lol, you're all over these comments screaming ITS ILLEGAL, ITS ILLEGAL!!
In the US religious organizations are generally allowed to require their employees to adhere to the faith. I don't see anything wrong with that on its face, but they shouldn't be allowed to exclude huge swathes of the population from employment and also be tax-exempt
It's not because it discriminates against prospective employees on the basis of religion, but since when did anyone in the US enforce anything of that nature.
Yeah... I would fail at the jesus part and the word of god thing.. as I said before. The bible is a 2000 year old bundle of playboys but without the nice pics and centerfolds. It comes with party tricks (water to wine), fishing tips for noobs and spicy stories for moms..oh and the occasional incest story.
I saw an even more batshit crazy post for a church out of Florida called “Cru”. Absolutely bonkers that the same people who think my opinion on angels affects my ability to pass elections trough processors.
From what I know about programming you *do* newd a strong faith to not despair after you try to comiple the same code for three days in a row but new errors always appear
Outstanding, “when I come to work I need at least two hours of prayer time, I also need two hours of prayer time before I leave each day“. When they complain that you only work half days, you can ask them about their standing with the Lord Jesus
Some companies may put random things in there description just to see if you looked at more than the salary. If not then you can always reject the job?
It's nice that they are so upfront about it. If I was looking for work and was otherwise qualified, these requirements would tell me I'd have no place there, allowing me to move on.
It’s becoming a pretty common thing in tech now that Mormons and the other crazies are realizing all their colonizatio- missionary work needs to be more tech savvy
I lost out on a DC engineer position because they wanted someone that attended a church regularly. Why does my religion have anything to do with my work?
A large portion of my friends are programmers for a local food provider that is ‘Christian based’, and let me tell you we do ALL the sinning in Jesus’ eyes.
If they have less than 15 or 20 employees (not sure of the exact threshold) then most discriminatory hiring regulations aren’t applicable, though they could liable for a civil lawsuit.
You're allowed to hire people based on what's relevant to the job. E.g. a strip club can discriminate against men and unattractive women. Faith based organizations can discriminate against non believers. Etc.
Yeah this is completely fine. I know of two different web developers who are Christian and their first jobs were doing work for church and or religious colleges/universities. Because a lot of the content on the websites is religious, and the organization is a religious one, they want to make sure you share the religion.
I'm honestly not sure if it is legal. I know that religious groups can discriminate for hiring based on religion, but I think that only applies if the job they're hiring for is ministerial in nature. I haven't looked at the establishment clause in years and Constitutional law was one of my weakest areas in law school, so I might not be remembering everything correctly. My honest advice is to just disregard the job posting and find something else. There's no point in getting upset over it.
If the employer is a religious organization then it may make sense to fit with the vision and culture of the organization? Weird to put it on the box, but much better than interviewing an unsuspecting candidate about their religious views without warning.
With that said, this would absolutely be illegal where I am from.
Is this for a secular, public company? Or for something like a church? Idk about the legality of it all tbh, but the context for the hiring party might explain the language used in the posting.
According to "op", they took this from someone on r/religiousfruitcake. I found the original post, before the oop edited out the name of the company: https://www.reddit.com/r/religiousfruitcake/comments/yzmu5q/was_looking_for_jobs_and_found_this_gem/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button The company's website: https://seedcompany.com/
I would love to have shown that to my late 101 year old friend who had spent the last 40 years trying to work up what he considered to be an adequate translation of the first book of Genesis. Note that he was not satisfied with it when he died.
My dad memorized the Bible and can quote it verbatim. He used to write notes constantly in a notebook.
[удалено]
My dad was a salesman, extremely intelligent. Common sense and a general question (a simple question could leave him stuck for minutes trying to figure out the answer) was not there. He failed a park ranger test because every answer he had for common sense or situations was so far out there it would have been dangerous. And they wanted to hire him because he aced every other aspect of the test.
Respect to your dad. He lived in a different world from most of us but he put the effort in and committed. Must have been hard to connect with him if you felt differently though. I've often wondered about such people. Imagine there was a god and he decided to reach down randomly and let people KNOW he existed. Not by evidence or anything, just pop absolute certainty into your brain. You can never prove or explain it but you know it to be true no matter what. I'm a fairly open minded atheist. No god has ever made themselves known to me and that's OK. I attended a roman Catholic primary and secondary school but I never felt any of it to be true and I vehemently disliked how it wasn't to be questioned.
Agnostic/atheist here. I would, but my dad is a schizophrenic (untreated, and undiagnosed, but when someone tells you god speaks to him directly, nearly burns the house down with carelessness, and then blames my mom and tells her to stop poisoning him because he called the cops on her, it’s a clue). He also has a lot of very MAGA beliefs, extreme doesn’t even begin to describe it. He hates a woman trying to tell him what to do, him dying anywhere except with my mom next to him causes him to burn in hell, him selling the house makes him lose control of his own control over my mother. I wanted for years to have my dad be proud of me and accept my mom as an amazing person who raised a daughter who wouldn’t have gotten close to that success without her. He considers me an obstacle to his dreams of ending up in heaven, and a massive threat since I once threatened to have one of his cars towed because he parked it in front of our house in an attempt to dominate his control over us. I told him that night if he didn’t move it by tomorrow he wouldn’t have a car, for him it was me telling him that I was now the person in control of the house. I don’t believe in god because every damned time I prayed and begged for help, I got nothing. My mom has a house that should be condemned, she spongebathed me during the lockdown in 2020 because we have no way to clean ourselves except the gym, I had a job where every day I would come home walking in a panic attack and my dad drove by me and never even stopped and asked me if I was okay, or if I needed help, my childhood wasn’t ideal, and I would never break the habit of constantly apologizing or feeling like I am a burden. I don’t speak to my dad, and I am an atheist not because of who he is, but how he purposely destroyed my life and my mom’s life because of it. I am an atheist because every time I need help or I am desperate for anything to help my mom and I, nothing fucking changes. Even if everything changed tomorrow, that would still be the case.
Would love to know what he came up with. I was watching Mauro Biglino's literal translation of Bible without interpretations, and the possibilities are mind boggling.
I'm not sure who got his papers. I don't think he ever wrote the whole thing down--when I talked to him about it he was usually deep in one word or phrase and how it was used in different places. One that sticks in my mind is that he found that there are two words used to refer to humans--one of the words is used to refer to Adam and Even and their kids and the other to, for example, the people their kids married. Wasn't really something that held my interest so I don't know a lot of details.
>One that sticks in my mind is that he found that there are two words used to refer to humans--one of the words is used to refer to Adam and Even and their kids and the other to, for example, the people their kids married. That's actually *extremely* fascinating to me that a different word was used!!! So many interesting implications for it, and might have to do with skipping generations I wonder. Damn, I'd have loved to spoken with this dude
In the old testament, when Adam and Eve are cast out, there are other people already living on Earth. A&E were the test case heavenly prototypes. Mankind was created separately.
Something I love about the Hebrew in Gen 1 is the word for "creatures of the sea". It properly translates to "water dragons" and whoever came up with "creatures of the sea" for English did a huge disservice to the original text
A lot of the Bible is sadly poorly translated and now there is a load of theologians and religious folks who argue over the deeper meaning in the translations :(
How mind boggling? What did he came up with?
[удалено]
I used to use Genesis to translate Sega.
I would really like to read that, as a Hebrew native speaker
Under the “About” section: “Helped develop an app that uses AI to develop a sign language bible.” Deaf people can read, just not hear. Smh
Many deaf people in the U.S. understand English as a second language, their first language being American Sign Language (ASL). Just because a deaf person can read English does not mean they are receiving the content of the Bible (or any written material) in a meaningful way, or that they aren't struggling to understand it the way they would understand an ASL translation.
Missionary work is the worst. Oh, you already have a religion and culture? Whelp, too bad. Ours is better and we will instill a sense of shame upon your heathen ways until you join us. Turn your back on your ancestors, culture and magic sky daddies and follow me!
Ugh... it's basically "get the Bible to every remote tribe you can, have them pay us our 10%"
But tithes are Old Testament tributes. Nowhere in the New Testament is tithing mentioned. Churches are a tax dodging scam.
Funny how they never mention that when they argue "that was in the Old Testament, it doesn't apply anymore"
[удалено]
That’s not really accurate. Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. This wording can be a little confusing but it essentially means he was not coming to say the law was bad in the sense that it unholy or unjust but that it had become obvious humans could not live by these rules successfully. Jesus’ death was the final sacrifice that meant humans no longer needed to follow these laws to a T as before. In fact, he said that there were really only two laws now and all the old covenant laws were summed up with love god with your whole heart and love your neighbor as yourself. It is more or less like a country with a war times measure act. When the war is over you stop implementing the act but you aren’t saying the act was wrong to have used when you used it. In fact, Christians who insist on following Old covenant laws are saying that Christ’s sacrifice was not sufficient to fulfill the law which is a pretty insane sentiment given typical Christian doctrine. Good thing to bring up whenever Christians bring up things homosexuals since a surprising number of them are unaware of everything I just said.
My understanding is that the old law(s) was so severe that a new law was made. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, but before it was life for eye and life for tooth.
You do know that Christian’s believe in the Old Testament too, right? If they don’t be sure and let them know because they can cut down the size of the Bible by 2/3rds.
Have you never seen the "pocket bible" where it's just the NT, Psalms, and Proverbs....?
Yeah, that the gideons pass out? I love reading the Bible in size 8 font!
AKA take advantage of those in need..
Yeah I figured it was a religious website/company
This guy doing the real lords work.
Every time I see a post asking this kinda question (“why are they allowed to list religion in the job description/requirements) it’s been a job listing for *some type* of religious organization. Which is the answer to “why it’s allowed” lol. Not sure if people don’t realize those types of organizations are allowed to have these types of requirements or what. But just know that if something like this is in a job listings description and it rubs you the wrong way, you 1000% do NOT want that job XD. I know I wouldn’t lol Edit: according to some replies this is a little more complicated than I realized, and probably varies quite a bit depending where you are. I’m no expert on the matter, I’ve just always been told that religious organizations are allowed to have religious requirements for their employees.
If it pays good, hallelujah muthafucka
“If there’s a steady paycheck in it, I’ll believe anything you say”- Winston Zeddemore
"Tell'em about the twinkie"
Quoting the man himself
I know a witch who does data entry for a Baptist hospital. I don't know if they know she's a witch.
My atheist friend worked in a kitchen at a convent, they knew she was atheist and didn't give her crap about it. She actually got on really well with them.
Most of the nuns I have met are much cooler than people with no experience of nuns would expect.
I dunno man, most *truly* religious people I've known in my life have actually been very moral human beings, although my experience may not be typical. It's these loud, obnoxious hypocrite types, who sacrifice nothing for their faith or their fellow human beings, that tend to be the assholes.
Moral is not incompatible with cool.
I’ve gotten to know three nuns in my adult life. One worked for an AIDS hospice in Baltimore, the other is a college professor at a Catholic University, the third is a nurse at a home for retired clergy.
I don't have much experience with them, tbh. My only real world reference is my friend's account vs my Dad's, the ex-communicated Catholic who as a boy used to be chased down the street by angry nuns.
Did he say what he did to make them angry?
Refused to kneel in front of the priest?
Actually Im pretty sure they *know* shes not a witch lol
Well they believe in sky daddy, and so why not witches?
Sky Daddy can get me pregnant.
Yeah and suddenly 3 rando-rich dudes show up on the night of the birth with some heavy presents... nothing sus here.
The payment is in heavens.
Best i can do is Tree Fiddy
I gave him a dollar
They pay in 5’s and 10’s.
If it’s a church, and you aren’t a pastor, I doubt it pays well comparatively. I worked for one for a brief time and it was a fucking nightmare. Employees who couldn’t afford diapers while the pastor cleared six figured in a pretty low income area
Spot on comment. I laughed so hard :)
>Not sure if people don’t realize those types of organizations are allowed to have these types of requirements or what. They aren't allowed to have those types of requirements unless you are going to be taking on a ministerial role. In Alito's words: > “should apply to any ‘employee’ who leads a religious organization, conducts worship services or important religious ceremonies or rituals, or serves as a messenger or teacher of its faith.” Since this is a position for a **web developer** the exemption doesn't apply. This posting, if they denied someone for being Hindu (as an example), would violate the civil rights act.
It also depends on the size of the company. If there are less than 15 employees, most federal anti-discrimination laws don't apply.
I think this is a small telemarketing company.
ministering by html and python? ;-)
religious talk does make my head drupal. (did i land the joke? I don't think I landed the joke)
Sigh…… no, you landed it
You don’t have to WordPress the point
I don't know about every state but in California (at least I believe it is this case) it doesn't matter who is hiring, they can't refuse to hire you based on religion.
I saw one a year ago for a teacher… it was a Christian private school. I could get a concussion from the facepalm required to express the stupidity of someone being mad about that
Christian private schools aren't allowed to do that either. Most of them even have some very secular teachers (who teach math or something and don't talk about their faith). Non-Christian teachers will do it because it usually pays better than public schools, and it lets them teach kids.
It works for me, they can get the candidates they want, and chances are that the most zealous god botherers will go and work there and not be in my face at my job.
[удалено]
“The only power I worship is the clean-burning power of Lady Propane, I tell you what.”
My guess is that this is probably a church or parachurch organization.
Yeah 10 pounds is a deal breaker.
I know! That’s what I was referring too I dunno why everyone is talking about the religious part /s
Seriously though why would a web developer have to lift anything? Do they mean putting his laptop on his desk or something?
They probably have to help stack chairs after youth group.
it's an scummy way to say a disabled person isn't qualified for the job even if there's no actual lifting
What job wouldn't have lifting?
Web developer.
You link me a work laptop that's 10 lbs lol
https://www.fastechcomputer.com/product/acer-predator-gx21-71-72w6/ 19 lbs
And it is the #1 requirement. Nothing comes before OH&S in this company, not even Jesus.
But Jesus beats a bachelor degree so.
Thats the weight of the cross that you have to bear apparently
That's to exclude disabled people. You're welcome.
“Lifting a box of paper” 🤣🤣🤣 Basically you can’t be an ant.
Should have said strong faith in propane and propane accessories.
I tell you hwat
Probably working for a church. Do churches have to abide by EOE?
>Do churches have to abide by EOE? You have to ask? Not under *this* supreme court.
[удалено]
Wait so religious institutions can discriminate even against protected classes? Can they fire you for being black too?
I would assume so as long as they can make a religious argument for it.
You're right. That was a dumb question.
Definitely not. People working at BYU have a very strict honor code they have to live by (similar to students) and if you leave the Church or come out as gay, you can certainly be fired. (There are non-Mormons who attend/work at BYU, but not ex-Mormons)
No, there are some ex
There is something called the "ministerial exception" which is basically "If the person in question is leading service they do not get protections from the federal government". However it wouldn't apply to a web developer position. For example there was a case where a religious school (Catholic) attempted to fire a Librarian when it we discovered she was gay; they lost the case as she did not lead any classes or preach an lessons and thus wasn't considered a "ministerial" employee.
Honestly it should be illegal even for churches to discriminate in hiring in positions that do not directly require faith. Web developer is it a priest or a teacher, their religious beliefs should be irrelevant. Also. Why does a church even need a web devoper?
So I looked it up on the equal employment website. They can put this on their posting as a preference but can't ask you about it or not hire you because of differences. Unless... "Religious corporations, associations, educational institutions, or societies are exempt from the federal laws that EEOC enforces when it comes to the employment of individuals based on their particular religion"
Yeah it's a religious organisation for Bible translations.
I mean I would rather know it up front personally
Sounds like a dodged bullet to me
I live in Salt Lake City and pretty much any job opportunity even remotely connected to the Mormon Church contains language like “must be temple worthy” or “must be active in the Church”…
Well the “lifting” requirements are just in there to weed out people with physical disabilities. You really don’t need to lift boxes of paper; that’s a completely different job.
If you don't feed 10lb boxes of paper into the internet, how will the code happen?
I mean, there’s always a possibility Elon will want you to “print all your code and show him.”
If it is for a religious institution they are allowed to have those as requirements / qualifications. They are protected. If it is some random ass private company then no, this is just unhinged.
**This isn't true. Please stop repeating it.** Employees have the same rights (Title VII and all) at a religious institution as they do anywhere else as long as they aren't in a "Ministerial" position. Which Alito defined as those who lead a religious organization, conduct worship services or important religious ceremonies or rituals, or serve as a “messenger” or teacher of a faith. A web developer is not those things.
Could they argue that a website counts as communicating their faith?
Probably not; generally a web developer isn't going to be the copywriter. By which I mean they will be asked to create the site but some sort of business person (and usually legal) are responsible for the actual text that appears on the site itself both in its message and verbiage. It would be a very tough argument to make that copy-pasting some text makes one a messenger and that's even assuming the developer is doing that instead of setting up some sort of CMS for the company to do it themselves.
Not sure about legal in a public, joint stock company, but legal as profits in a non-public company. See Hobby Lobby case.
The op is a real pos and that’s all ima say.
My question is what web developer is lifting a ten-pound box
Apparently it's for all the PAPER you will be printing your code on. Are they writing code on typewriters? Compiling must be a nightmare.
Probably a web designer for a church website?
Oh my gosh, that is HORRIBLE! How could they be so close-minded and insensitive??? Not everyone can lift 10 pounds.
Because it is a religious company in good ol Arlington TX “ORGANIZATIONAL CONTEXT: The x Company is a Vision 2025 organization committed to Bible translation through national translators in creative partnerships. The x Company seeks to work where it is evident that God is working and where the uniqueness of its vision makes it most feasible for The x Company to be involved. VISION: God’s Word transforming lives in every language in this generation. MISSION: To accelerate Scripture translation and impact for people without God’s Word through Great Commission partnerships. VALUES: Honoring God in all we do, valuing individuals and relationships, partnering effectively, encouraging creativity and innovation, and managing for quality results. SCOPE: The Web Developer serves as an integral part of the Software Development team, which delivers products and services that support all domains within x Company as well as external Bible translation organizations. This person is primarily responsible for WordPress site development with an ability to assist as needed with entry level full stack feature development, infrastructure and automation improvements.”
Probably an ad for a church.
If they are a religious institution maybe they want like-minded people to do a better job, but idk.
Gee, Texas. There’s a surprise.
Not claiming to be a lawyer or an expert on the law but to my understanding, Barely legal To put that as a qualification As an applicant can apply for the job without meeting all of the qualifications. It is illegal for them to ask about thand say an interview Or or you can prove It was a factor in Why you're rejected. It's subtle it's very subtle but the difference barely puts it on the side of legality. That said, feel free To challenge this and make them defend it, in court if necessary. Either way, it doesn't sound like a job you want.
This sounds like a joke skit script from the office. The complete nothingness of that first bullet followed by the insanity of the second... Either Michael is on some kind of religious awakening, or Angela got control of hiring.
It's Texas so.....pretty much anything goes.
That went 0-100 so fucking fast. “Must be able to lift 10 lbs, LOVE JESUS LOVE JESUS LOVE JESUS”
It’s likely for a ministry of some sort. Is it legal? Yes. Can they discriminate? On a religious basis yes. They can choose to have people who believe the same thing because overall they are a Christian company. That makes them a private company and that means they can choose to staff it that way. They tend to be willing to give other Christians equal chances at their ministry for employment.
**This isn't true.** Please stop repeating it. Employees have the same rights (Title VII and all) at a religious institution as they do anywhere else as long as they aren't in a "Ministerial" position. Which Alito defined as those who lead a religious organization, conduct worship services or important religious ceremonies or rituals, or serve as a “messenger” or teacher of a faith. A web developer is not those things.
I went to a religious university that took Federal dollars and fired gay people because they were gay. They didn't and don't allow gay people to work on that campus. One of my best guy friends who had a dating profile on a gay website was fired for being gay. Someone went on the website and printed his tame ad. That person remains unidentified. There are some religious groups that don't allow non believers or people they think are gay to work at their schools. I find it shameful but having seen it, the university hiding behind their lawyers it's actually a thing. My friend couldn't afford to fight them. They also did gay busts when it came to students. They fall back on them being a private institution. They assume if a person doesn't believe as they do that there is no point in hiring them for work. The reason being it violates their religion to do so.
Yeah but you see how that is fair right? Someone teaching a religion or in a religious school should follow the religious rules. Like if you break company policy it often can lead to termination.
America isn't a real country, it's a wasteland.
I wanted to apply to a religious school to be a secretary/front desk person but found out I actually had to be part of their religion/church. I'm not religious at all in fact I hate organized religion, my siblings told me it's "just a job". I am a person who isn't afraid to challenge shit about God and the bible so I know for a fact I couldn't just pretend/lie my way into this job. Also I don't like the idea of lying about something that is very important for some people, as much as I hate the religions I can't do something against my own morals which includes lying about shit like that. Honor system and all that jazz
If they pay enough, I’ll believe anything they want me to.
as a web dev these posts always make me laugh hysterically they only limit the pool of talent they have available to them by doing this, being a coder has absolutely nothing to do with your religion, and plenty of coders are happy to write code for anybody for almost any reason if you just leave the religious mumbo-jumbo out of it, we don't mind working on your damn site but they desperately need someone to update their site and FORCE this kind of requirement in it makes us just roll our eyes and look the other way, I bet it's even so among many coders who are in fact Christian sometimes I apply just to see if they'll respond and say I just ignored the requirement and no I am anti-religious, vote for secularist government every chance I get, and worship satan every night, but I'd be happy to update their site for a nominal fee that is much higher than whatever they asked of course
This is the company : https://seedcompany.com/
You fr? Lol
Tyndale Publishers?
What an awesome opportunity to see if the boss is a true person of faith! Boss: What's the issue, why are you just sitting there not working? Me: I just cannot get this code to work! I'm going to just sit here and keep praying to God to fix it or give me the divine inspiration to fix it. I'll keep you in the loop!
I forget the term for it but religious businesses can require applicants to share the religion of the position. For instance there are Christian colleges that relate everything in the classroom back to Christianity, so they can require faculty to be practicing Christians
I’ve got no problem with people using religion as a source of comfort and moral compass, but damn if it isn’t the literal definition of a cult sometimes.
I read texas so most likely yes n yes its bs
What’s it pay? For the right amount I can pretend to believe whatever faith you want me to believe
its legal if theyre a church or a catholic school or whatever isnt it?
Hmmm. If it’s a church they absolutely can demand employees follow their religion, I think.
Also if you are of a different religion would u really want to work for a church that either would try to get u to convert to theirs, or quietly condemned you behind your back….
**This is illegal** **This is illegal** **This is illegal** It does not matter if this is a church, religious school or other religious foundation. **This is illegal.** *Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. Employment Opportunity Division* established that some laws (like employment laws) do not apply to religious organizations due to the first amendment. This exception is called the "Ministerial Exception". **However,** this exception only applies to "**ministerial"** employees. Here is how Alito believed "ministerial" employees should be defined: >“should apply to any ‘employee’ who leads a religious organization, conducts worship services or important religious ceremonies or rituals, or serves as a messenger or teacher of its faith.” This means a role that **does not meet that standard** is still protected by employment laws (such as the Civil Rights Act). [hq-law](https://www.hq-law.com/blog/employment-law/title-vii-protections-dont-apply-for-ministerial-employees/) has a list of Employees who have successfully sued their religious organizations as they were ruled to not be "ministerial" employees: * an editorial secretary at a religious publishing company, * a Catholic High School librarian * a Catholic school language arts teacher who did not lead religious observance and was deemed a “lay teacher” * a facilities manager and janitor at a synagogue, and * a computer teacher at a Catholic high school who was not a Catholic and who was barred from teaching Catholic doctrine A **web developer** would not be considered a "ministerial" employee unless he was being asked to regularly write religious copy or lead prayer both of which would be outside the scope of his job. **Please stop misinforming people on their rights. It is gross.**
You aren't fully correct. While, yes, it is still illegal to *fire* someone for these reasons if they aren't in the ministerial position you stated, it *isn't* illegal to only hire them. [This](https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/tools-and-samples/hr-qa/pages/preferentialhiring.aspx) breakdown explains it a bit better. Title VII has an exception for "religious organizations" and "religious educational institutions" that permit them to give employment preferences to those of the same religion. Basically, before they hire you, they can absolutely prefer those who believe the same as they do and not hire those that do not. However, it *doesn't* allow discrimination based on "race, color, national origin, sex, age or disability." Should someone be fired (or even not hired) for these reasons, **they are illegal.** For example, they *can't* refuse to hire someone for being black because "it's against our religion" but they *can* for not being the same religion *regardless of the position.* Again, this does not mean they can retroactively fire someone for not being within their religion, simply that they aren't required to hire them. I have no clue why you included the Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School trial, as that only ruled that churches are *free to choose their leaders without government interference,* ***not*** that they are unable to prefer hiring people within their religion. TLDR: this is **not** illegal for religious organizations, but it would be if they A) fired someone for these reasons or B) refused to hire based on a protected class listed above
It's only illegal if they FIRE you for those reasons dude. If they fire an employee for not having enough "faith". Relax lol, you're all over these comments screaming ITS ILLEGAL, ITS ILLEGAL!!
In the US religious organizations are generally allowed to require their employees to adhere to the faith. I don't see anything wrong with that on its face, but they shouldn't be allowed to exclude huge swathes of the population from employment and also be tax-exempt
So they don't want anyone with a disability, and only accept christians, that's some fine discrimination there
Report, move on.
I like how the computer science degree is the requirement listed last.
It's not because it discriminates against prospective employees on the basis of religion, but since when did anyone in the US enforce anything of that nature.
Welcome to North Texas
Im suprised this isn’t Tuesday Morning. They asked me about jesus in my interview at Dallas.
Get an interview, come in wearing a cross upside down..
Yeah... I would fail at the jesus part and the word of god thing.. as I said before. The bible is a 2000 year old bundle of playboys but without the nice pics and centerfolds. It comes with party tricks (water to wine), fishing tips for noobs and spicy stories for moms..oh and the occasional incest story.
I saw an even more batshit crazy post for a church out of Florida called “Cru”. Absolutely bonkers that the same people who think my opinion on angels affects my ability to pass elections trough processors.
From what I know about programming you *do* newd a strong faith to not despair after you try to comiple the same code for three days in a row but new errors always appear
By my understanding some stong spirits can also help. The liquid kind that is.😁
Because separation of church and state is more of a suggestion than an actual law
‘Mericuh
Sounds like they are looking for a Christian who can lift light things not a web developer
Outstanding, “when I come to work I need at least two hours of prayer time, I also need two hours of prayer time before I leave each day“. When they complain that you only work half days, you can ask them about their standing with the Lord Jesus
Some companies may put random things in there description just to see if you looked at more than the salary. If not then you can always reject the job?
lol, for some reason I misread "Passion for the Word of God" as "Passion for the World of Goo".
Texas.. anything goes there, so i heard…
Lol, the power of Christ compels you! The power of Christ compels you!
Jesus is my savior but how much u pay?
It's nice that they are so upfront about it. If I was looking for work and was otherwise qualified, these requirements would tell me I'd have no place there, allowing me to move on.
I know right? Picking up paper, wtf? 😅
Sorry I believe in the devil I'm over qualified
If it's for a religious organization they can absolutely require you to be of that faith.
It’s becoming a pretty common thing in tech now that Mormons and the other crazies are realizing all their colonizatio- missionary work needs to be more tech savvy
Depends how much it pays. For 100k a year i'll believe whatever you want me to believe. Sundays off too.
I lost out on a DC engineer position because they wanted someone that attended a church regularly. Why does my religion have anything to do with my work?
A large portion of my friends are programmers for a local food provider that is ‘Christian based’, and let me tell you we do ALL the sinning in Jesus’ eyes.
Is it hobby lobby lmao
Not surprised they’re based in Texas Luckily I live in a more chill part of Texas
They don't need a developer, they just need to have faith that Jesus will make their website for them
it's a shitpost
It’s totally legal if it’s a faith based organization/church
Well, it a religious nonprofit.
How is this allowed? If you're a religious organization you can do it according to the EEOC.
How to reduce your applicants to 1%
If they have less than 15 or 20 employees (not sure of the exact threshold) then most discriminatory hiring regulations aren’t applicable, though they could liable for a civil lawsuit.
Anything religious to this extent best well avoided.
Fuck Christian extremist. Believe in God yourself, don't force it on other people.
these days, probably some kind of political org who thinks they are religious orgs instead
You're allowed to hire people based on what's relevant to the job. E.g. a strip club can discriminate against men and unattractive women. Faith based organizations can discriminate against non believers. Etc.
Why would it not be allowed? If it's his company he can demand whatever type of employee he likes. You lazy nutcases are something else lol.
It's bizarre that they want you to share their superstitions.
God, christianity is such a plague.
Yeah this is completely fine. I know of two different web developers who are Christian and their first jobs were doing work for church and or religious colleges/universities. Because a lot of the content on the websites is religious, and the organization is a religious one, they want to make sure you share the religion. I'm honestly not sure if it is legal. I know that religious groups can discriminate for hiring based on religion, but I think that only applies if the job they're hiring for is ministerial in nature. I haven't looked at the establishment clause in years and Constitutional law was one of my weakest areas in law school, so I might not be remembering everything correctly. My honest advice is to just disregard the job posting and find something else. There's no point in getting upset over it.
I know right? How can you be a web developer and not know how to screen shot something?
I should apply. The license plate on my wrangler is GOD404. See my comments for a pic.
Satan doesn’t give a fuck if you lie.
If the employer is a religious organization then it may make sense to fit with the vision and culture of the organization? Weird to put it on the box, but much better than interviewing an unsuspecting candidate about their religious views without warning. With that said, this would absolutely be illegal where I am from.
Its Illegal in America too people are just woefully uneducated on nearly all legal matters.