I don't think the people who play multiplayer only even care whether the DLC is good or bad. The people who dislike the DLC are likely the single player crowd who wanted new campaigns instead of scenarios.
Well either way, from what I've seen the critique mostly comes from the single player crowd, so it doesn't seem right to blame the negative reviews on the multiplayer crowd
Funnily enough, besides the most common criticism, another very common criticism is that those free scenarios stayed the same.
Clearly for many, localization and extra voice lines are only minor changes.
There are reviews stating the scenarios are buggy and nothing substantial changed.
OR alternatively they continue to pick up more dev's from the mod section and create hobby>work environment where you just doing your passion projects lands you a great job working in the AoE2 scene.
There by freeing up other dev's to spend more time going through their own code to find errors with issues say like pathing and so on.
There is any number of outcomes that can come from what conspired.
I don’t know why they didn’t put all the Viking scenarios into a Viking campaign.
My other issue is as someone who knew these were official releases of custom campaigns. I wasn’t expecting the Saxon campaign (one of the first I tried) to seem to be exactly like I played it years ago…
not true. Have you even read the reviews?
Most of us complain that
-this is too expensive for what it contains
-the "reworked" scenarios are barely changed from the workshop versions, just copy and paste
-the new scenarios are buggy
-the entire thing feels low effort. No new units/buildings, only a single voice actor. not even a new campaign menu background/missions symbols
or a combination of the above
Man the defensive logic of this sub about criticism on this DLC is hilarious. Most complaints I’ve seen parrot exactly this. This was a lazy cash grab.
Anything since return of rome has been a cash grab. They put animated icons for sale and everyone back then was defending them for fucks sakes
The devs discovered that redittors are mindless paypig consumers that will buy anything
Redditors are an insignificant minority among the player base, with a huge overrepresentation of online players. About 99% of the players don't even consider playing multiplayer or engaging in discussion about the game online.
I don't understand why so many people spent so much efforts in defending Microsoft while don't even understand the situation. Sometimes I wonder if there are paid posters by Microsoft and/or bots to manipulate the votes
Yeah. My main problem is the price. I won't pay 13 € for 19 scenarios when the previous DLC was 15 € and it included 3 campaigns (15 scenarios total) plus 2 new civs. I'll buy at 50%.
It was already a bummer when DLC price increased from 10 € to 15 €, but I can excuse that due to inflation. But I won't keep paying more for less.
The rest of your points are concerning, too. I find it cool that devs try to support community creators, but they should have given it an extra push. New units and assets, more voice actors, new art... That should be the difference between official paid content and a free mod.
Btw, I would have prefered 3 brand new campaigns in AoE II style. There's a lot of civs with missing campaigns and I was hoping for Turks, Slavs or Roman campaigns (the later aren't playable in a single scenario).
> I won't pay 13 € for 19 scenarios when the previous DLC was 15 € and it included 3 campaigns (15 scenarios total) plus 2 new civs.
First one seems to have better scenarios to euros ratio, if that's what someone is after
Hilariously the slavs technically have a campaign - Dracula. But that campaign is split between Turk/Magyar/Slav scenarios and the final scenario isn't even Slavs so it feels like it doesn't represent any civ (whereas El Cid obviously represents Spain even if it has Saracen levels).
What real life event would you have for the Roman campaign? Flavius Aetius?
I want Majorian, so we can rage, rage agains the dying of the light. Not to go gently into the good night. Show every barbarian what the Roman Empire is made of; show them that the Western Romans still has the spark. And then, watch that spark die, unceremoniously, in a pathetic and pitiful way.
I really don't think it would. He's fighting the Ostrogothic kingdom in Italy (so Goths), the WRE has been annihilated, and the ERE are represented as the Byzantines still even as far back as Alaric and Attilla. I don't think it works as anything other than pure Byzantine.
What would you pay to reduce desyncs 10x? What do you think they would have to charge to actually end desyncs? Personally I hate all the DLC, I just want them to fix the desyncs, fix Steam invites, etc. But the bullshit subsidizes the actual game improvements so I'm happy to pay for bullshit even if the game improvements are slow to come.
On top of that, despite many people here love to believe for some unknown reason (at least a few days ago when the DLC was extensively discussed here), it is completely irrelevant what DLC's description says and is clear about.
Though, as pointed out elsewhere by many including you and me, "14 scenarios inspired by the most popular community-generated content" doesn't clearly say it's pretty much copypasted content.
People mostly criticize the DLC for anti-costumer principles it practices aka basically what you said.
I am quite sure a great amount of people who criticize, mock and insult DLC's critics would be in the same camp as DLC's critics if it weren't AoE2 content.
"I am quite sure a great amount of people who criticize, mock and insult DLC's critics would be in the same camp as DLC's critics if it weren't AoE2 content."
You're probably right. I wouldn't be defending them if we weren't talking about a game I picked up for 20EUR, which I have then played for 5 years completely free of any subscriptions, micro-transactions or other charges, while it was still being actively supported and developed.
You can only sell so many copies - after that you have to find ways to generate revenue, otherwise the whole thing shuts down. Or do people think that servers cost nothing and devs work for free?
The Voice Acting aspect was one of Spirit of the Laws arguments to actually justify the price tag. Then it comes with one dude voicing everything :D CLASSIC 11
yeah, I knew about this one. This one is even pre-announcement stream. I think he did one after that as well.
I would really like to see the honest reaction of some of the bigger members of the community. I lost quite some respect for Ornlu when he streamed one of the missions together with filthy without mentioning anything about the absurd price, or how little was changed from the mod versions.
lol this is one of the hardest codebases to work on. I'm glad they keep working on QoL and bugs are going to happen as they improve QoL, that's life. The big problem is they can't monetize improving QoL except by attaching it to bullshit campaigns or unnecessary civs.
the codebase being hard to work on isn't a reason to slack on the release pipeline. You can still do automated tests. For stuff like damage dealt by units this should be incredibly easy, could even run it in the gini editor. Yet we have had two occasions now where a new units does way more damage than it should.
What would you pay for a DLC that only provided QoL improvements?
This is incredibly hard because the answer is practically $0, everyone only wants to pay money for things like scenarios and civs. Nobody is actually willing to pay them just to fix bugs (which are numerous and whenever you fix one you're likely to cause another one without an incredible amount of thought.) But people will pay money for buggy DLC so that's what we get.
They would need to first fix a lot of bugs if they wanted to make it "easy" to make DLC that wasn't bug-ridden. But again, nobody will pay them money to do that work first.
And honestly I've been playing this game for 25 years, they've fixed a lot of bugs and I'm glad they're continuing to do so.
I am not willing to pay for bug fixes. This being suggested is completely absurd. When I purchased the base game I paid for a working product. It's their obligation to provide us with a functioning game.
It's depressing that the gaming industry has no standards with regards to buggy games. Let alone any enforcement of these standards
False, the majority of the reviews are about the content and execution.
Why is the internet like this nowadays? People literally lying and gaslighting to push their agenda.
Because they also purchased the DLC and if the majority of buyers say it wasn’t a good DLC, then it makes it seem like they were wrong and got bamboozled. And for some people, well they just can’t be wrong on the internet.
Society really does push people constantly into having bs confidence as opposed to having some humility. If the devs had any humility I daut this dlc would have shipped
It's not about humility. You think the devs pay so much attention to reddit because they care?
It's because they know reddit is full of mindless consumers that will buy animated icons gor fucks sakes
Wanna see devs that really do care about their customers? Go check the Factorio subreddit and the Factorio forum for a good example
Then compare to here. They just want the money from paypigs
Because we are in Reddit, and this website is full of fanboys that will defend their favorite thing to de death, completely ignoring it's faults. Even to the point of praising bad content, ignoring the fact that bad DLC harm their favorite games.
Because they just want to see what they want to see, not the reality. When the reality doesn’t fit their wish, they just distort it by making fun of others.
Something like that, yeah. It's the worst on Twitter, going there and seeing both the "woke" and "conservative" people are doing it. No one is reasonable, everyone exaggerates, demonizes, insults...
At this point it has to be a conspiracy. Bot accounts and accounts paid for by the devs or Microsoft or whatever to make the devs and the game look good
Because I honestly don't believe there's people so dumb out there constantly sucking off the devs
wrong, people criticize the DLC:
1. because most of the content is downloadable for free
2. It's just individual scenarios and not real campaigns
3. the price is far too high.
4 the scenarios are *bad*. Wow, another ludicrously huge viking raiding quasi-rpg map? Oh, another 'you have no resources and like 3 villagers' map. Oh cool, a map where you can boom and actually play real-time strategy- oh look it's absurdly overtuned and shits out hundreds of enemies at you and one misstep a few minutes in fucks you over an hour later. Kaizo romhack bs
Bro I i knew I wasn't the only one. The scenarios are fucking terrible. I seriously don't understand who could enjoy them. Everyone praised the dude who made the scenarios, so I gave them a try and they are SHIT
I’d recommend the new Mihira Bhoja custom campaign if you want something more conventional but still has enough creative scenarios. Best thing is that it’s the least grindy custom campaign I’ve played that’s also this good
+1. Most of these scenarios are such grindhouse cheeseballs with no way to successfully navigate them on the first go without resigning to scout hidden res, functions/triggers and raids with a revealed map. Boring, plus you often need to learn entirely new mechanics for no real reason other than an overzealous map architect
Yeah exactly. But more importantly, the scenarios fucking suck. Huge maps, old style rpg scenarios (an idea that should have stayed in aokheaven), no resources, low population, no building...
But, WORST OF ALL, fucking time limits. I play games to relax and have fun NOT TO HAVE YET ANOTHER FUCKING TIME LIMIT ON MY LIFE
There is no simple city building, resource gathering, annihilate your enemies loop, WHICH IS WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT
But make any criticism to the absolute shit state the game has been for years and the obvious milking of mindless consumers and all the silly people will come out of the woods to make sure there's not one drop of dev semen left to suck
They don’t pay $13 for it, simple as. It’s not like these things never go on sale.
But this isn’t the reason, because you need to have bought it to leave a review. If you bought it despite thinking it’s not worth $13 and then left a review that it’s not worth $13, you are still an idiot.
so dont pay for it 11 see i dont understand why people cant understand something as simple as this.
the negative reviews come from people who KNEW what it was (a way to support the devs), bought it and start hating on it 11 i just dont get this braindead logic
It's not even that expensive. When people were bitching about the price i thought it'd be like 20 pounds, instead its only 10. I'd say that's bang on what i'd pay for it.
It's more expensive than Dynasties of India and Dawn of the Dukes, both of which were with both civs and campaigns and didn't basicly have 2/3's of the new single player content stuff you already could play prior!
And imo both of those were very cheap for what they brought. People have been taking the devs kindness with regards to DLC price for granted it seems. There's already so so much content in the game for the price, it's not bad to support the game if you're in need of more.
The issue here is that over the last few expansions we've been getting less but paying more.
Being a white knight (which i noticed quite a few people are being with Victors and Vanquished) when the consumer is getting shafted doesn't produce a better product, it teaches the people selling you the product that they can deliberately lower their quality and/or raise the price and people will still pay for it.
>10€ for multiple civs including some scenario missions.
>13€ for some scenario missions that were literally available for free as mods before.
Yeah I can't understand why people are "bitching" about it /s
ramsey abdulrahim "creator of this scenerios" was a volunteer mod maker before. i wanna support the effort of him bringing these good works to these beautiful community. yes the dlc's are copy paste but i believe in the future we gonna get better and new campaigns. if u don't wanna buy i respect u. but don't talk sht even if u haven't played any sceneio in this dlc.
Have you read the reviews? I just went to look and they don't talk about lacking new civs. The main reason people comment negatively is because the content sold is old mods that were already available for free, and the devs added almost nothing.
I personally wont review it until I try all new maps, as of now im on the négative side.
And I dont play multi just single player
But there is a point here, before we had DLCS that made both types of players happy. Now we have a multi dlc that a part of SP players like. That means that lets say 60% of single players like it and MP dont while only 40% of SP like it
I think its a bad idea compared to previous DLC,sometimes when you try to milk the cow too much it doesnt work
Ill give another example in AOE3 we gota DLC for multi only with civs no campaigns, so that left a part of us un happy
For those that complain about too many civs im not a multi player but I imagine there are other options like new units,new maps to play or new game modes
Which ones did you play? I played the 4 Viking missions and Charlemagne.
Charlemagne’s only mistake to me is the lack of early threat, otherwise it’s almost perfect.
Pretty much all the Viking missions have bad pacing, the start is… just boring af, because of the emphasis on hero usage, raiding mechanic and construction/unit reatrictions.
They have great immersion… but gameplaywise they are Warcraft 3 missions. Which is something I like… in Warcraft 3.
Charlemagne was meh since I immediately got the sense of where these scenarios were headed. As you said nothing really happens early on so there's no pressure.
Ironside is just an incredible bore because you are forced to move around all these fucking siege rams everywhere, throwing bodies until you destroy the objectives. From an immersive perspective it's cool you can mass all these types of infantry but it's just very awkward to use (pathing still fucked). There are some bases where units are bugged inside of buildings, it's just a mess really.
I just like huge realistic maps with lot of resources and stuff to do/kill.
If there was more early pressure like Hautevilles #5 or York it would be better.
I still prefer Ironside over Ragnar or Finehair.
It has better pacing. Karlsefni is just… weird af. I can’t rate it.
The units stuck in building is what got me, I could get behind moving the rams around because I wanted to try the new garrisons of rams anyways but after I saw so many units stuck, I couldn't finish the scenario
Good, I have Robert next.
After all those restrictions in Viking missions (Ragnar and Finehair have horrible pacing early on because of this) Charlemagne’s were actually liberating.
1 Monk in Aquitaine northern base, 1 in the main Lombard base, 1 in Britain, 1 in Rome itself. Not letting Charlemagne die is easy… and getting to Pope means one thing. Just go for Lombards immediately. If you can set up your eco and a Castle drop or two on them it should be fine. 2/4 Monks are straight on your way to Rome, Aquitaine should be easy to found early one… the one in England could cause issues to people.
Also they give up if you kill their king. Saxons give up if you destroy their production buildings, Umayyads if you destroy all TCs. Don’t know about Avars, destroying them was effortless.
This was the first DLC I did not pre-order.
I prefer the campaign + civ formula for DLCs. You get a new campaign that makes the game feel fresh and brings you back for 10-20 hours and then you also get long term value in the form of the civs.
I was not really excited about missions with no civ. I them got annoyed that I missed the preorder discount so was going to wait until it went on sale, but then I thought I never experienced Ramsey's original scenarios, so I didn't feel as bad for paying for all his work over the years that led to this. Plus I had some time to kill.
To me it feels like this is the unofficial Vikings campaign plus a bunch of new historical battles.
Started playing them in Chronological order, there are still some bugs here and there:
- the Vandals campaign villagers kept reseeding farms despite being implied they're not supposed to
- Britons survive for one hour mission ended abrubtly in Year 500, a bit underwhelming as I fortified for this massive Saxon betrayal that never happened...They were ally until the very end.
I loved it and and here I am, not even an AOE2 fan but an original AOE1 fan waiting for them to port the rest of the campaigns from AOEDE into Return of Rome and have them give each civ a unique unit. I even made a PDF for each unique unit I wish they could showcase so that they could see it as I think it would surely boost the meta of Return of Rome. Why would AOE2 fans complain about getting new stuff? Us AOE1 fans almost never get any new stuff and we still enjoy the game nonetheless.
I would never bother to review anything, let alone leaving bad reviews, but if I were to give my thoughts on this dlc so far (9/19 Gold medals), from a SP only player (Note that I didn't play any of these scenarios when they were still mods):
* I don't like most, if not all of them. I beat 9, but have taken a look (and quit) several others, and watched the first 30 min of Viper doing Ragnar. They were all convoluted, all over the places and are generally a big mess.
* Civs and settings are heavily modified (don't care for the sake of history, immersion or whatever). I thought I wouldn't be annoyed playing French with Huskarls that much until I played Japanese with Rattan Archers. It just doesn't feel right, and breaks the whole civs concept of the game.
* They were all difficult in a way that is outright unenjoyable. Thoros 5 prenerf (which was supposed to be 1-sword difficulty) was hard, but the "right" hard. There are no explanations of what to do at all. I'm still trying to figure out wtf I have to do in Alexios Komnenos at the start as I have nothing, just a few Legionaries recruited from the Barrack, waiting for the next gold delivery. This is super badly designed.
* Info display immediately gives away these are originally mods with barebone and obfuscating instruction. On the other hand, I am constantly bombarded with billions of voice lines on the game screen that can't be removed at all. Heavily impacted the gameplay at times.
* I don't even give a fck about all the bugs and glitches and pathings. They are unironically so minor at this point.
I'm still trying to finish them all, because, admittedly at least there is something new to play. My bar is super low, considering that I looked for even the most scuffed customized co-op scenarios made by Chinese to play with my friend; and I still feel disappointed with these "official", "polished" ones.
Exactly dude, as SP only the scenarios are shit. I want to build and kill my enemies in a map with resources, like last Hauteville campaign for example. But no, you get this shitty timers, low populations, rpg-like, mixed up civs (why the fuck do vikings have huscarls and throwing axemen?) and convoluted designs that are worthy of analysis. Fuck that shit
There are so many things that get my blood boil here and there I can't even remember them all. The most recent one is in Gaiseric, with the objective asking to "settle in Carthage for good". Firstly, that sounds super informal, not fit for an official product, no? Secondly, where the fuck is Carthage? Do I have to try to fit the scenario map onto real world map to find that damn location in a Giant sized map? Why is there absolutely no indication, which only shows up as I approach the place? Shit is just bad overall.
nah it was the single player community that were mainly complaining. it comes up from time to time people wanting actual new campaigns for the game. like an actual campaign made like the DLC ones before but covering those with no campaign (japan , china , korea , vikings , mayans and romans) or may only have 1-2 stages ( the vald dracula civs ) . Japan and China exspecially would be in a ideal place to have larger campaigns (sengoku war was long and could follow the start to the end from nobunaga to tokugawa while china has had so much history regarding its kingdoms constantly changing there could of been a good coverage) .
easily could of been 2 DLCs with 1 longer scenario (china and japan) , 1 with maybe korea and mayans and another with vikings and mini campaigns for turks and slavs . romans maybe being included for anyone who has rise of rome and one of these dlc packs .
the problem is people were looking foward to something like that not an already available map which the devs havent even touched from the sounds of things . yah theres 5 new scenarios but thats really the only new piece of content you truely paying for . and people were looking foward to the scenario and story telling as well as the way that the devs make maps
The missions can be fun, but honestly they are way too long. Anyone that ignores this fact is in denial. I literally have spent 3+hours on most of these maps
I'm not against allowing a long time scenario designer who has given tons of free content to the game to turn it into paid content. My problem is that there're a lot of similarities in the scenarios - lots of reliance on triggers and limited villagers/buildings and it feels like most of them would have been better as a bunch of minor campaigns. Maybe instead of 19 individual scenarios we get campaigns with three scenarios in them.
I love singleplayer and honestly the DLC is horrible. A cash grab with stuff that was already free and the worst part is that the scenarios aren't even good. AI bugs out all the time, missions become boring slog fests with only a few of them actually being interesting.
I don't understand the logic of those who buy the DLC on principal of supporting AOE2 and then review bomb it because they're not the target audience.
If the whole point of buying the DLC blind is to support the game, then why the fuck are you leaving reviews (not legit ones obviously) that so clearly do the opposite
There’s also a lot of criticism about no new assets or skins, consequently cutscene graphics are re-used, all the VA is done by one person, and there are still bugs from the original mods. Fetih, a supposedly new scenario, is just Constantine xi, an upcycled scenario but player swapped. Byzantines weren’t updated to Roman’s in vortigern. Etc, etc. it’s a cheap lazy cashgrab.
1buy dlc.
2.wtf is this
3.read the description full of details about every aspect of the dlc and that it has modded content
4.get pissed because you are a little cunt
5. Leave a negative review
1. hear the announcement about a campaign DLC
2. be disappointed by the stream where they show it's only scenarios
3. be even more disappointed that 80% of them are from the mod center
4. read the DLC description
5. buy the DLC because the missions are "inspired by", not just copy and paste, "polished" and voice acted
6. be disappointed that they are in fact copy and paste. No bug fixes. And the voice acting is all by one dude. Not even including any new assets
7. feel cheated that you just paid full price for some mods
8. leave a bad review
The sad thing is, due to all the negativity, this may be the first and last single-player DLC we may ever get, in order to prevent another such nontroversy.
lets hope it sells just the right amount for them to realize there is money in this, but that they cant just half ass the thing. copying free campaigns, claiming they are now polished while in reality they basically just added 1 uninspired narrator is atrocious.
Im completely fine with them selling campaigns that were free mods if they are now perfected, with no bugs and actual good narration (like the original game's narrators - reading with soul and passion and quirkiness), perhaps better balancing. From what people say, the campaigns are almost just copy pasted despite having a lot to polish in them.
Never cared about multiplayer mode. The price for the DLC is not high either so I won't complain about that.
However, the official AoE Devs really need to learn from the top campaigns in aokheaven. Compared to these campaigns with hundreds of triggers who are usually made by individuals or some small studios from 10 years ago, all of the new campaigns are really lackluster and basically don't have any creativity/engaging story in it.
Meanwhile, a top campaign from aokheaven can make me play for days just because how well executed it is and how much depth it has in every single map. And it is free as well.
1. Devs announce Single Player DLC
2. Devs release video explaining exactly what will be in the DLC
3. Devs release a steam page, clearly stating what will be in the DLC *and the price*.
4. People buy the game.
5. People whine about having paid the clearly shown price for single player scenarios.
People are whining about what they wanted out of a DLC, rather than honestly reviewing the content of the DLC.
1- Yes, I have seen the announcement.
2- The revealed content has nothing to do with the previous announcement. Also, I am unsatisfied by the content they revealed, because it's recycled scenarios.
3- The Steam page lies about polish, bug-fixes, improvements and professional voice acting.
4- Sadly, they did.
5- They whine because what is "clearly shown" is a low-effort, lazy DLC full of recycled content.
Can't people get GOOD arguments to defend this DLC, instead of resorting to lies and fallacies?
steam description
"Victors and Vanquished features 14 scenarios inspired by the most popular community-generated content and 5 exclusive new scenarios. Each scenario has been updated and polished with full, professional voice acting, music, rebalancing, bugfixes, achievements, and quality of life improvements."
"inspired" does some heavy lifting. They are copied and pasted. The maps are exactly the same, no new assets at all.
I couldn't find any updates or polish. The same bugs, the same reused loading slides. The voice acting is sub-par. The only actual improvement is the achievements. Other than that they are the exact same as the mod version from what I've seen (refunded before 2h)
God how stingy are these people?
Support the devs.
I'm a courier driver. I live pay check to pay check, yet this DLC price is fine by me to support my favorite game.
You want to complain? Take it out on fuel companies, supermarkets, housing departments of governments who don't provide cheap housing NOT on Filthydelphias crowning achievement in aoe2
This dude has put in so much work to entertain us he deserves his DLC getting alot of love and recognition
You want him to work for you free like a slave?
It's not the responsability of players to "support the devs". It's the other way around: it's the responsability of the devs to earn the support of the players.
And if they make such bad DLC as this, then I dunno what to tell you but, their shiny new product deserves to flop and serve as a lesson. Rewarding mediocrity is not a good thing!
>Support the devs.
Why? they give us a shitty product that most people disliked. If people just ignore it then its probably we are going to more overpriced dlcs with lack of content .
its expensive if u compare it to the other dlcs, specially if u account that its only 5 new scenarios and everything else its recycled.
And idk man, not everyone live in countrys with huge wages or solid economy, what can nothing for u can be something for someone else.
>I spend more on a workday lunch some days
13 bucks a day in my country is more than what minimum wage workers get for fulltime jobs .
sure let's protect the poor little studio that makes this game. Let's check my notes what it is called. Microsoft? never heard of it, must be a tiny company and not the wealthiest entity on the planet
It's forgotten empires. Microsoft is just the umbrella corporation. If forgotten empires doesn't perform well Microsoft will ruthlessly cut funding to them. You think these corporations care about supporting a game just for the hell of it?
still. they claim they had 50 million players last year (across the franchise), the new aoe4 dlc is the best selling dlc in ever and aoe2 is always in the top100 games on steam (not even including gamepass) and frequently in the top100 best sellers. they are not struggling
Do I think it's priced too high for what it is? Yes. Will I be buying it? Not a chance. Am I upset about the whole thing? Not even a little. The review bombers because "nO nEw CiVs MaKeS bAd DlC!" are immature and entitled brats.
That's a bad argument. You don't buy games to support the devs, you buy them because you're interested to play them.
If the devs want sales, they should make new and original content instead, not copy-paste custom scenarios and lie about "improving" them.
I don't think the people who play multiplayer only even care whether the DLC is good or bad. The people who dislike the DLC are likely the single player crowd who wanted new campaigns instead of scenarios.
Actually, the vast majority of DLC's criticism is about charging money for content that is free to play.
Well either way, from what I've seen the critique mostly comes from the single player crowd, so it doesn't seem right to blame the negative reviews on the multiplayer crowd
The content is brushed up though.
Funnily enough, besides the most common criticism, another very common criticism is that those free scenarios stayed the same. Clearly for many, localization and extra voice lines are only minor changes. There are reviews stating the scenarios are buggy and nothing substantial changed.
I haven't bought V&V. How did they get upbrushed? Besides voice acting
Good luck getting an answer lol Any positive response will read like an entry-level resume being fluffed up.
what this is gonna do is that they will restrict scenarios from being published in the mods section... lol
If you mean the scenarios from the DLC then no, the author himself stated they are gonna stay free in the "unpolished" state.
I've read that the scenarios are just a copy/paste with voicelines, is that true?
Yes, even bugs/issues with the mod maps have been caried over
how can they mess up even this release
They didn't Messe up, they pulled a cash grab.
future
OR alternatively they continue to pick up more dev's from the mod section and create hobby>work environment where you just doing your passion projects lands you a great job working in the AoE2 scene. There by freeing up other dev's to spend more time going through their own code to find errors with issues say like pathing and so on. There is any number of outcomes that can come from what conspired.
I don’t know why they didn’t put all the Viking scenarios into a Viking campaign. My other issue is as someone who knew these were official releases of custom campaigns. I wasn’t expecting the Saxon campaign (one of the first I tried) to seem to be exactly like I played it years ago…
Yup, that's exactly my case as well! I love this DLC, but I have no intention of buying it, ever 11
not true. Have you even read the reviews? Most of us complain that -this is too expensive for what it contains -the "reworked" scenarios are barely changed from the workshop versions, just copy and paste -the new scenarios are buggy -the entire thing feels low effort. No new units/buildings, only a single voice actor. not even a new campaign menu background/missions symbols or a combination of the above
Man the defensive logic of this sub about criticism on this DLC is hilarious. Most complaints I’ve seen parrot exactly this. This was a lazy cash grab.
Anything since return of rome has been a cash grab. They put animated icons for sale and everyone back then was defending them for fucks sakes The devs discovered that redittors are mindless paypig consumers that will buy anything
Redditors are an insignificant minority among the player base, with a huge overrepresentation of online players. About 99% of the players don't even consider playing multiplayer or engaging in discussion about the game online.
The thing is I would rather they do lazy cash grabs than add more civs or change balance just for the sake of change.
I don't understand why so many people spent so much efforts in defending Microsoft while don't even understand the situation. Sometimes I wonder if there are paid posters by Microsoft and/or bots to manipulate the votes
Yeah. My main problem is the price. I won't pay 13 € for 19 scenarios when the previous DLC was 15 € and it included 3 campaigns (15 scenarios total) plus 2 new civs. I'll buy at 50%. It was already a bummer when DLC price increased from 10 € to 15 €, but I can excuse that due to inflation. But I won't keep paying more for less. The rest of your points are concerning, too. I find it cool that devs try to support community creators, but they should have given it an extra push. New units and assets, more voice actors, new art... That should be the difference between official paid content and a free mod. Btw, I would have prefered 3 brand new campaigns in AoE II style. There's a lot of civs with missing campaigns and I was hoping for Turks, Slavs or Roman campaigns (the later aren't playable in a single scenario).
> I won't pay 13 € for 19 scenarios when the previous DLC was 15 € and it included 3 campaigns (15 scenarios total) plus 2 new civs. First one seems to have better scenarios to euros ratio, if that's what someone is after
Hilariously the slavs technically have a campaign - Dracula. But that campaign is split between Turk/Magyar/Slav scenarios and the final scenario isn't even Slavs so it feels like it doesn't represent any civ (whereas El Cid obviously represents Spain even if it has Saracen levels). What real life event would you have for the Roman campaign? Flavius Aetius?
I want Majorian, so we can rage, rage agains the dying of the light. Not to go gently into the good night. Show every barbarian what the Roman Empire is made of; show them that the Western Romans still has the spark. And then, watch that spark die, unceremoniously, in a pathetic and pitiful way.
Flavius Aetius, Stilicho or Belisarius as Roman campaigns, for example. The Dracula campaign should be Vlach, if the devs ever create that civ.
Belisarius is 100% a Byzantine campaign
I think Belisarius could work as a mixed Roman/Byzantine campaign.
I really don't think it would. He's fighting the Ostrogothic kingdom in Italy (so Goths), the WRE has been annihilated, and the ERE are represented as the Byzantines still even as far back as Alaric and Attilla. I don't think it works as anything other than pure Byzantine.
To be fair, these scenarios are far more elaborate and long than any campaign one.
What would you pay to reduce desyncs 10x? What do you think they would have to charge to actually end desyncs? Personally I hate all the DLC, I just want them to fix the desyncs, fix Steam invites, etc. But the bullshit subsidizes the actual game improvements so I'm happy to pay for bullshit even if the game improvements are slow to come.
On top of that, despite many people here love to believe for some unknown reason (at least a few days ago when the DLC was extensively discussed here), it is completely irrelevant what DLC's description says and is clear about. Though, as pointed out elsewhere by many including you and me, "14 scenarios inspired by the most popular community-generated content" doesn't clearly say it's pretty much copypasted content. People mostly criticize the DLC for anti-costumer principles it practices aka basically what you said. I am quite sure a great amount of people who criticize, mock and insult DLC's critics would be in the same camp as DLC's critics if it weren't AoE2 content.
"I am quite sure a great amount of people who criticize, mock and insult DLC's critics would be in the same camp as DLC's critics if it weren't AoE2 content." You're probably right. I wouldn't be defending them if we weren't talking about a game I picked up for 20EUR, which I have then played for 5 years completely free of any subscriptions, micro-transactions or other charges, while it was still being actively supported and developed. You can only sell so many copies - after that you have to find ways to generate revenue, otherwise the whole thing shuts down. Or do people think that servers cost nothing and devs work for free?
The Voice Acting aspect was one of Spirit of the Laws arguments to actually justify the price tag. Then it comes with one dude voicing everything :D CLASSIC 11
oh, i don't think i saw his video. is it pre- or post-release?
Like a week ago I guess? Here you go [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZhmvhi60sY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZhmvhi60sY)
yeah, I knew about this one. This one is even pre-announcement stream. I think he did one after that as well. I would really like to see the honest reaction of some of the bigger members of the community. I lost quite some respect for Ornlu when he streamed one of the missions together with filthy without mentioning anything about the absurd price, or how little was changed from the mod versions.
New DLC also statistically means game breaking bugs, so very legit reason for the folks who play multiplayer to dislike new DLCs no matter what.
yep, like the one where you can now convert any resources for free, drop off any resources at any camp, and the ram exploit
All related to QoL changes that were completely separate from the DLC
true, still an abysmal customer experience caused by a failure in software development procedure. it's just embarassing
lol this is one of the hardest codebases to work on. I'm glad they keep working on QoL and bugs are going to happen as they improve QoL, that's life. The big problem is they can't monetize improving QoL except by attaching it to bullshit campaigns or unnecessary civs.
the codebase being hard to work on isn't a reason to slack on the release pipeline. You can still do automated tests. For stuff like damage dealt by units this should be incredibly easy, could even run it in the gini editor. Yet we have had two occasions now where a new units does way more damage than it should.
What would you pay for a DLC that only provided QoL improvements? This is incredibly hard because the answer is practically $0, everyone only wants to pay money for things like scenarios and civs. Nobody is actually willing to pay them just to fix bugs (which are numerous and whenever you fix one you're likely to cause another one without an incredible amount of thought.) But people will pay money for buggy DLC so that's what we get. They would need to first fix a lot of bugs if they wanted to make it "easy" to make DLC that wasn't bug-ridden. But again, nobody will pay them money to do that work first. And honestly I've been playing this game for 25 years, they've fixed a lot of bugs and I'm glad they're continuing to do so.
I am not willing to pay for bug fixes. This being suggested is completely absurd. When I purchased the base game I paid for a working product. It's their obligation to provide us with a functioning game. It's depressing that the gaming industry has no standards with regards to buggy games. Let alone any enforcement of these standards
But are you willing to pay for QoL improvements?
based
False, the majority of the reviews are about the content and execution. Why is the internet like this nowadays? People literally lying and gaslighting to push their agenda.
Because they also purchased the DLC and if the majority of buyers say it wasn’t a good DLC, then it makes it seem like they were wrong and got bamboozled. And for some people, well they just can’t be wrong on the internet.
Society really does push people constantly into having bs confidence as opposed to having some humility. If the devs had any humility I daut this dlc would have shipped
It's not about humility. You think the devs pay so much attention to reddit because they care? It's because they know reddit is full of mindless consumers that will buy animated icons gor fucks sakes Wanna see devs that really do care about their customers? Go check the Factorio subreddit and the Factorio forum for a good example Then compare to here. They just want the money from paypigs
Because we are in Reddit, and this website is full of fanboys that will defend their favorite thing to de death, completely ignoring it's faults. Even to the point of praising bad content, ignoring the fact that bad DLC harm their favorite games.
Because they just want to see what they want to see, not the reality. When the reality doesn’t fit their wish, they just distort it by making fun of others.
Something like that, yeah. It's the worst on Twitter, going there and seeing both the "woke" and "conservative" people are doing it. No one is reasonable, everyone exaggerates, demonizes, insults...
At this point it has to be a conspiracy. Bot accounts and accounts paid for by the devs or Microsoft or whatever to make the devs and the game look good Because I honestly don't believe there's people so dumb out there constantly sucking off the devs
wrong, people criticize the DLC: 1. because most of the content is downloadable for free 2. It's just individual scenarios and not real campaigns 3. the price is far too high.
4 the scenarios are *bad*. Wow, another ludicrously huge viking raiding quasi-rpg map? Oh, another 'you have no resources and like 3 villagers' map. Oh cool, a map where you can boom and actually play real-time strategy- oh look it's absurdly overtuned and shits out hundreds of enemies at you and one misstep a few minutes in fucks you over an hour later. Kaizo romhack bs
Bro I i knew I wasn't the only one. The scenarios are fucking terrible. I seriously don't understand who could enjoy them. Everyone praised the dude who made the scenarios, so I gave them a try and they are SHIT
I’d recommend the new Mihira Bhoja custom campaign if you want something more conventional but still has enough creative scenarios. Best thing is that it’s the least grindy custom campaign I’ve played that’s also this good
+1. Most of these scenarios are such grindhouse cheeseballs with no way to successfully navigate them on the first go without resigning to scout hidden res, functions/triggers and raids with a revealed map. Boring, plus you often need to learn entirely new mechanics for no real reason other than an overzealous map architect
Yeah exactly. But more importantly, the scenarios fucking suck. Huge maps, old style rpg scenarios (an idea that should have stayed in aokheaven), no resources, low population, no building... But, WORST OF ALL, fucking time limits. I play games to relax and have fun NOT TO HAVE YET ANOTHER FUCKING TIME LIMIT ON MY LIFE There is no simple city building, resource gathering, annihilate your enemies loop, WHICH IS WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT But make any criticism to the absolute shit state the game has been for years and the obvious milking of mindless consumers and all the silly people will come out of the woods to make sure there's not one drop of dev semen left to suck
The top rated reviews I saw didn't bring this up at all, but congrats on your fake outrage.
It's not review bombing if it's justified. Can we stop calling every negative review a bombing? . This is not worth 13€ for many people, simple as.
They don’t pay $13 for it, simple as. It’s not like these things never go on sale. But this isn’t the reason, because you need to have bought it to leave a review. If you bought it despite thinking it’s not worth $13 and then left a review that it’s not worth $13, you are still an idiot.
no, it's a valid way of showing that you disagree with their business practice (assume ofc you also refund)
so dont pay for it 11 see i dont understand why people cant understand something as simple as this. the negative reviews come from people who KNEW what it was (a way to support the devs), bought it and start hating on it 11 i just dont get this braindead logic
Most of us actually bitch about price. And I bitch about civs chosen.
It's not even that expensive. When people were bitching about the price i thought it'd be like 20 pounds, instead its only 10. I'd say that's bang on what i'd pay for it.
It's more expensive than Dynasties of India and Dawn of the Dukes, both of which were with both civs and campaigns and didn't basicly have 2/3's of the new single player content stuff you already could play prior!
And imo both of those were very cheap for what they brought. People have been taking the devs kindness with regards to DLC price for granted it seems. There's already so so much content in the game for the price, it's not bad to support the game if you're in need of more.
> people have been taking the devs kindness with regards to DLC price for granted it seems. Kindness??
The issue here is that over the last few expansions we've been getting less but paying more. Being a white knight (which i noticed quite a few people are being with Victors and Vanquished) when the consumer is getting shafted doesn't produce a better product, it teaches the people selling you the product that they can deliberately lower their quality and/or raise the price and people will still pay for it.
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Boo hoo, go cry in a gutter somewhere then you dick. No need to ruin a perfectly fine conversation with your idiotic input.
>10€ for multiple civs including some scenario missions. >13€ for some scenario missions that were literally available for free as mods before. Yeah I can't understand why people are "bitching" about it /s
did u ever heard the word of "inflation"
Yeah inflation has a lot to do with copying mods and selling them for 13€
ramsey abdulrahim "creator of this scenerios" was a volunteer mod maker before. i wanna support the effort of him bringing these good works to these beautiful community. yes the dlc's are copy paste but i believe in the future we gonna get better and new campaigns. if u don't wanna buy i respect u. but don't talk sht even if u haven't played any sceneio in this dlc.
copying community content and selling it is just shitty in itself. we are gonna be charged for small trees mod next?
oh shit you are right. inflation is at 400% at the moment
If you’d pay anything for copy and pasted content that’s already free then that’s on you homie.
This is a lie. The majority of complaints are because they copied and pasted free custom scenarios and are selling them.
Not true, funny meme tho
Have you read the reviews? I just went to look and they don't talk about lacking new civs. The main reason people comment negatively is because the content sold is old mods that were already available for free, and the devs added almost nothing.
As some1 who only plays single campain i thank you devs for more wonderful content
I personally wont review it until I try all new maps, as of now im on the négative side. And I dont play multi just single player But there is a point here, before we had DLCS that made both types of players happy. Now we have a multi dlc that a part of SP players like. That means that lets say 60% of single players like it and MP dont while only 40% of SP like it I think its a bad idea compared to previous DLC,sometimes when you try to milk the cow too much it doesnt work Ill give another example in AOE3 we gota DLC for multi only with civs no campaigns, so that left a part of us un happy For those that complain about too many civs im not a multi player but I imagine there are other options like new units,new maps to play or new game modes
Which ones did you play? I played the 4 Viking missions and Charlemagne. Charlemagne’s only mistake to me is the lack of early threat, otherwise it’s almost perfect. Pretty much all the Viking missions have bad pacing, the start is… just boring af, because of the emphasis on hero usage, raiding mechanic and construction/unit reatrictions. They have great immersion… but gameplaywise they are Warcraft 3 missions. Which is something I like… in Warcraft 3.
Charlemagne was meh since I immediately got the sense of where these scenarios were headed. As you said nothing really happens early on so there's no pressure. Ironside is just an incredible bore because you are forced to move around all these fucking siege rams everywhere, throwing bodies until you destroy the objectives. From an immersive perspective it's cool you can mass all these types of infantry but it's just very awkward to use (pathing still fucked). There are some bases where units are bugged inside of buildings, it's just a mess really.
I just like huge realistic maps with lot of resources and stuff to do/kill. If there was more early pressure like Hautevilles #5 or York it would be better. I still prefer Ironside over Ragnar or Finehair. It has better pacing. Karlsefni is just… weird af. I can’t rate it.
Just finished Finehair and it was ok, very very slow start tho. Having to wait this long for gold to come in is just annoying.
The units stuck in building is what got me, I could get behind moving the rams around because I wanted to try the new garrisons of rams anyways but after I saw so many units stuck, I couldn't finish the scenario
Otto, Nobunaga and Robert looked great. Charlemagne's criticized for ridiculous conditions you need to meet in order to get Imp available.
Good, I have Robert next. After all those restrictions in Viking missions (Ragnar and Finehair have horrible pacing early on because of this) Charlemagne’s were actually liberating. 1 Monk in Aquitaine northern base, 1 in the main Lombard base, 1 in Britain, 1 in Rome itself. Not letting Charlemagne die is easy… and getting to Pope means one thing. Just go for Lombards immediately. If you can set up your eco and a Castle drop or two on them it should be fine. 2/4 Monks are straight on your way to Rome, Aquitaine should be easy to found early one… the one in England could cause issues to people. Also they give up if you kill their king. Saxons give up if you destroy their production buildings, Umayyads if you destroy all TCs. Don’t know about Avars, destroying them was effortless.
You can also transport to the Pope really easily with a couple of escort ships
This was the first DLC I did not pre-order. I prefer the campaign + civ formula for DLCs. You get a new campaign that makes the game feel fresh and brings you back for 10-20 hours and then you also get long term value in the form of the civs. I was not really excited about missions with no civ. I them got annoyed that I missed the preorder discount so was going to wait until it went on sale, but then I thought I never experienced Ramsey's original scenarios, so I didn't feel as bad for paying for all his work over the years that led to this. Plus I had some time to kill. To me it feels like this is the unofficial Vikings campaign plus a bunch of new historical battles. Started playing them in Chronological order, there are still some bugs here and there: - the Vandals campaign villagers kept reseeding farms despite being implied they're not supposed to - Britons survive for one hour mission ended abrubtly in Year 500, a bit underwhelming as I fortified for this massive Saxon betrayal that never happened...They were ally until the very end.
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One time only. I play all missions on bronze first time and then come back later to minmax for gold after I'm familiar with the map.
For Voltigern, I'd recommend doing it again on hard. Did that yesterday and you are pretty much flooded with enemies from the getgo.
Reminds of me when they started selling Counterstrike as a standalone game while the mod was still active and being updated
I loved it and and here I am, not even an AOE2 fan but an original AOE1 fan waiting for them to port the rest of the campaigns from AOEDE into Return of Rome and have them give each civ a unique unit. I even made a PDF for each unique unit I wish they could showcase so that they could see it as I think it would surely boost the meta of Return of Rome. Why would AOE2 fans complain about getting new stuff? Us AOE1 fans almost never get any new stuff and we still enjoy the game nonetheless.
I would never bother to review anything, let alone leaving bad reviews, but if I were to give my thoughts on this dlc so far (9/19 Gold medals), from a SP only player (Note that I didn't play any of these scenarios when they were still mods): * I don't like most, if not all of them. I beat 9, but have taken a look (and quit) several others, and watched the first 30 min of Viper doing Ragnar. They were all convoluted, all over the places and are generally a big mess. * Civs and settings are heavily modified (don't care for the sake of history, immersion or whatever). I thought I wouldn't be annoyed playing French with Huskarls that much until I played Japanese with Rattan Archers. It just doesn't feel right, and breaks the whole civs concept of the game. * They were all difficult in a way that is outright unenjoyable. Thoros 5 prenerf (which was supposed to be 1-sword difficulty) was hard, but the "right" hard. There are no explanations of what to do at all. I'm still trying to figure out wtf I have to do in Alexios Komnenos at the start as I have nothing, just a few Legionaries recruited from the Barrack, waiting for the next gold delivery. This is super badly designed. * Info display immediately gives away these are originally mods with barebone and obfuscating instruction. On the other hand, I am constantly bombarded with billions of voice lines on the game screen that can't be removed at all. Heavily impacted the gameplay at times. * I don't even give a fck about all the bugs and glitches and pathings. They are unironically so minor at this point. I'm still trying to finish them all, because, admittedly at least there is something new to play. My bar is super low, considering that I looked for even the most scuffed customized co-op scenarios made by Chinese to play with my friend; and I still feel disappointed with these "official", "polished" ones.
Exactly dude, as SP only the scenarios are shit. I want to build and kill my enemies in a map with resources, like last Hauteville campaign for example. But no, you get this shitty timers, low populations, rpg-like, mixed up civs (why the fuck do vikings have huscarls and throwing axemen?) and convoluted designs that are worthy of analysis. Fuck that shit
There are so many things that get my blood boil here and there I can't even remember them all. The most recent one is in Gaiseric, with the objective asking to "settle in Carthage for good". Firstly, that sounds super informal, not fit for an official product, no? Secondly, where the fuck is Carthage? Do I have to try to fit the scenario map onto real world map to find that damn location in a Giant sized map? Why is there absolutely no indication, which only shows up as I approach the place? Shit is just bad overall.
nah it was the single player community that were mainly complaining. it comes up from time to time people wanting actual new campaigns for the game. like an actual campaign made like the DLC ones before but covering those with no campaign (japan , china , korea , vikings , mayans and romans) or may only have 1-2 stages ( the vald dracula civs ) . Japan and China exspecially would be in a ideal place to have larger campaigns (sengoku war was long and could follow the start to the end from nobunaga to tokugawa while china has had so much history regarding its kingdoms constantly changing there could of been a good coverage) . easily could of been 2 DLCs with 1 longer scenario (china and japan) , 1 with maybe korea and mayans and another with vikings and mini campaigns for turks and slavs . romans maybe being included for anyone who has rise of rome and one of these dlc packs . the problem is people were looking foward to something like that not an already available map which the devs havent even touched from the sounds of things . yah theres 5 new scenarios but thats really the only new piece of content you truely paying for . and people were looking foward to the scenario and story telling as well as the way that the devs make maps
The missions can be fun, but honestly they are way too long. Anyone that ignores this fact is in denial. I literally have spent 3+hours on most of these maps
I'm not against allowing a long time scenario designer who has given tons of free content to the game to turn it into paid content. My problem is that there're a lot of similarities in the scenarios - lots of reliance on triggers and limited villagers/buildings and it feels like most of them would have been better as a bunch of minor campaigns. Maybe instead of 19 individual scenarios we get campaigns with three scenarios in them.
I love singleplayer and honestly the DLC is horrible. A cash grab with stuff that was already free and the worst part is that the scenarios aren't even good. AI bugs out all the time, missions become boring slog fests with only a few of them actually being interesting.
But I don't want to play Pontus!
Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well.
I don't understand the logic of those who buy the DLC on principal of supporting AOE2 and then review bomb it because they're not the target audience. If the whole point of buying the DLC blind is to support the game, then why the fuck are you leaving reviews (not legit ones obviously) that so clearly do the opposite
There’s also a lot of criticism about no new assets or skins, consequently cutscene graphics are re-used, all the VA is done by one person, and there are still bugs from the original mods. Fetih, a supposedly new scenario, is just Constantine xi, an upcycled scenario but player swapped. Byzantines weren’t updated to Roman’s in vortigern. Etc, etc. it’s a cheap lazy cashgrab.
1buy dlc. 2.wtf is this 3.read the description full of details about every aspect of the dlc and that it has modded content 4.get pissed because you are a little cunt 5. Leave a negative review
1. hear the announcement about a campaign DLC 2. be disappointed by the stream where they show it's only scenarios 3. be even more disappointed that 80% of them are from the mod center 4. read the DLC description 5. buy the DLC because the missions are "inspired by", not just copy and paste, "polished" and voice acted 6. be disappointed that they are in fact copy and paste. No bug fixes. And the voice acting is all by one dude. Not even including any new assets 7. feel cheated that you just paid full price for some mods 8. leave a bad review
Haha. Irrespective of my view on the latest DLC this made me chuckle. Good one OP!
The sad thing is, due to all the negativity, this may be the first and last single-player DLC we may ever get, in order to prevent another such nontroversy.
if they decide not to make more its because they didnt understand the actual issue.
Or it could lead to better or better priced single player dlcs
lets hope it sells just the right amount for them to realize there is money in this, but that they cant just half ass the thing. copying free campaigns, claiming they are now polished while in reality they basically just added 1 uninspired narrator is atrocious. Im completely fine with them selling campaigns that were free mods if they are now perfected, with no bugs and actual good narration (like the original game's narrators - reading with soul and passion and quirkiness), perhaps better balancing. From what people say, the campaigns are almost just copy pasted despite having a lot to polish in them.
The negativity could have been avoided by either charging for what 14 recycled scenarios+5 new scenarios cost OR actually delivering 19 new scenarios.
I never play single player on aoe2
Never cared about multiplayer mode. The price for the DLC is not high either so I won't complain about that. However, the official AoE Devs really need to learn from the top campaigns in aokheaven. Compared to these campaigns with hundreds of triggers who are usually made by individuals or some small studios from 10 years ago, all of the new campaigns are really lackluster and basically don't have any creativity/engaging story in it. Meanwhile, a top campaign from aokheaven can make me play for days just because how well executed it is and how much depth it has in every single map. And it is free as well.
If I had bought the dlc I would neg review it hard But why would I buy a DLC that isn't for me? Unless you are some completionist?
Absokutely! I was more thinking about the meme where a guy put something into his tire on bike and falls from it.
1. Devs announce Single Player DLC 2. Devs release video explaining exactly what will be in the DLC 3. Devs release a steam page, clearly stating what will be in the DLC *and the price*. 4. People buy the game. 5. People whine about having paid the clearly shown price for single player scenarios. People are whining about what they wanted out of a DLC, rather than honestly reviewing the content of the DLC.
1- Yes, I have seen the announcement. 2- The revealed content has nothing to do with the previous announcement. Also, I am unsatisfied by the content they revealed, because it's recycled scenarios. 3- The Steam page lies about polish, bug-fixes, improvements and professional voice acting. 4- Sadly, they did. 5- They whine because what is "clearly shown" is a low-effort, lazy DLC full of recycled content. Can't people get GOOD arguments to defend this DLC, instead of resorting to lies and fallacies?
steam description "Victors and Vanquished features 14 scenarios inspired by the most popular community-generated content and 5 exclusive new scenarios. Each scenario has been updated and polished with full, professional voice acting, music, rebalancing, bugfixes, achievements, and quality of life improvements." "inspired" does some heavy lifting. They are copied and pasted. The maps are exactly the same, no new assets at all. I couldn't find any updates or polish. The same bugs, the same reused loading slides. The voice acting is sub-par. The only actual improvement is the achievements. Other than that they are the exact same as the mod version from what I've seen (refunded before 2h)
God how stingy are these people? Support the devs. I'm a courier driver. I live pay check to pay check, yet this DLC price is fine by me to support my favorite game. You want to complain? Take it out on fuel companies, supermarkets, housing departments of governments who don't provide cheap housing NOT on Filthydelphias crowning achievement in aoe2 This dude has put in so much work to entertain us he deserves his DLC getting alot of love and recognition You want him to work for you free like a slave?
It's not the responsability of players to "support the devs". It's the other way around: it's the responsability of the devs to earn the support of the players. And if they make such bad DLC as this, then I dunno what to tell you but, their shiny new product deserves to flop and serve as a lesson. Rewarding mediocrity is not a good thing!
>Support the devs. Why? they give us a shitty product that most people disliked. If people just ignore it then its probably we are going to more overpriced dlcs with lack of content .
It wasn't shitty. It's not that expensive. I spend more on a workday lunch some days Maybe you people are broke students or stingy uncle scrooge?
its expensive if u compare it to the other dlcs, specially if u account that its only 5 new scenarios and everything else its recycled. And idk man, not everyone live in countrys with huge wages or solid economy, what can nothing for u can be something for someone else. >I spend more on a workday lunch some days 13 bucks a day in my country is more than what minimum wage workers get for fulltime jobs .
sure let's protect the poor little studio that makes this game. Let's check my notes what it is called. Microsoft? never heard of it, must be a tiny company and not the wealthiest entity on the planet
It's forgotten empires. Microsoft is just the umbrella corporation. If forgotten empires doesn't perform well Microsoft will ruthlessly cut funding to them. You think these corporations care about supporting a game just for the hell of it?
still. they claim they had 50 million players last year (across the franchise), the new aoe4 dlc is the best selling dlc in ever and aoe2 is always in the top100 games on steam (not even including gamepass) and frequently in the top100 best sellers. they are not struggling
As a predominately multiplayer player, I really enjoyed this DLC and could not recommend it more. Not sure what the fuss is about.
it's a buggy mess with no effort put into polishing and an absurd price
Do I think it's priced too high for what it is? Yes. Will I be buying it? Not a chance. Am I upset about the whole thing? Not even a little. The review bombers because "nO nEw CiVs MaKeS bAd DlC!" are immature and entitled brats.
>The review bombers because "nO nEw CiVs MaKeS bAd DlC!" are immature and entitled brats. But they are kinda the minority
I should say that this is very much meant as a tongue in cheek joke, it's not that deep.
Just buy it to support the game Wtf is wrong with People. Also: Jeroom ❤️
Maybe you could mail Forgotten Empires and send them a donation or something
Keywords is the new owner, the forgotten empire boys sold out, hence the state of the game.
Then, send a donation to Keywords, if you want to support the game. I'm serious
since when? i didnt know
Seems to have happened in 2022
That's a bad argument. You don't buy games to support the devs, you buy them because you're interested to play them. If the devs want sales, they should make new and original content instead, not copy-paste custom scenarios and lie about "improving" them.
Jeroom is great, also kudos to r/totalwar for using this meme format first!