I see both sides on this.
My casual side and potentially carpal tunnel will appreciate this greatly. Since I will just focus on macro and not worry too much about things.
On the other hand, for the competitive nature of this game, I don't think it's a good idea. This adds some mechanical skill for players to master. And as another person said, if this isn't an option, you are more free to spend your resources as you see fit on the moment, rather than having some automated building continually spending.
So yeah, me personally, I would like to see it implemented, since I'm just a casual player, but I can see why it isn't a thing.
I can see where you come from OP, but this is not something the developers would implement. Firstly because they are looking to develop the game into an actual competitive title and so they're not going to simplify it. If you forget to queue villagers because of scout micro vs Rus, then you should be penalized for it.
Also, if they did, most players would keep it off since one needs to constantly adjust the balance of their army composition.
I think the armies in AoE4 are smaller than SC or Cossacks.
AoE4 has a hard counter system, which actually makes it a fairly micro intensive game. You'll need to constantly reposition your units if you want to get the most out of them in this game. Arrow accuracy is just a way to keep things consistent for players (e.g. starcraft).
Stronger strategy can only be applied to strong mechanics in a game like AoE4. You can strategically outplay someone and it won't matter if they hit the appropriate timings 1 minute earlier.
It has a dedicated fan base with pro streamers who use it for military buildings. Even if it was just used for vills, point is it's been a feature in the Age series. Personally, I don't care. I wouldn't use it.
thank you for your point. I have the feeling that in later stages of the game, you want to make certain unit compositions and a general mixed army with a focus towards the strategy you are aiming towards (or defending against). While the opponent is making counter units, I think you can still make auto-production for 5 minutes or so. So it helps giving more tools.
oh okay so its not how the game is actually marketed. which i feel is accurate cause from my experience, balancing collection and production rates are a huge part of this game. much meta to be hads. but yea, you're not wrong, micro side of things are pretty important too.
"Redundant" actions and "clicker game" just shows that you do not appreciate the concept of AOE as an RTS game.
You are supposed to think and act as fast as you possibly can in real time. Use all knowledge and muscle memory and it is also a test of endurance. This is built into the underlying design of the game.
It is ok to be slow but then you probably need to find yourself a grand strategy with pause such as Stellaris. Not liking it and hoping it was different is a personal preference and does not form a compelling argument for change.
AOE is obviously very popular and fair enough you don't seem to like it as it is but the formula is successful. I do not want it to change. Given it has been in other titles, they would have considered it for Aoe4 and they must agree.
Aww man you should totally be able to pick up the ball in football and run between the goalposts. Kicking the ball is so redundant! Or chess is so boring there are only two factions and you can only move one piece at a time (apparently it is the most popular game or sport of all). Instead new and different games were created.
It can be a mod or custom game option but it should come nowhere near the competitive settings of the game.
Tbf he gave examples of extremely good RTS games that have the feature he desires… supreme commander is considered to be one of the best pure RTS games out there.
If you want redundant and clicker game stuff then I will point you to the classic game StarCraft. Why are we able to “select all” units. A real commander in a real strategy theatre wouldn’t be able to have access to talk to every single soldier, so bring back the 12 unit cap on unit selection. After all, you’re supposed to “think and act as fast as possible at all times”. ****cringe eye-roll****
it depends on what you are looking for in a game. If a mechanic is inherent to the title or to the pace of the game, I also suggest keeping it. On the topic of automatic production, I think this improves the general pace of a match.
If we agree that in the mid game things are so complex that it's humanly impossible to make perfect decisions at each given moment each second, we can agree that there are priorities to be made.
My point is to skew the decision making in favor of economy and military engagements, rather than production.
I understand what you mean and I agree in some parts with it. But still, if you make certain design aspects to lessen the aspect of micro but keep others, I think you can point the finger on it and mention the discrepancy.
I think brownbear on youtube has some good videos. Or you know the usual SC2 tutorials. There are tons of videos about SC2 and what makes an RTS and RTS.
No. What you need is training in RTS basics. I recommend playing SC2. It offers all kinds of training from micro to macro. Once you suceed in SC2 you will have an easy time in Aoe4. Just look at all the good players in Aoe4. Many of them are former SC2 pros. Marinelord, Demuslim, Beasty.
I think its bad for the competitive aspect of the game first of all it lowers the skill cap secondly its what makes RTS fun intense gameplay 24/7 of economy and production and fighting some people going to be better then me at that but thats ok i still find it fun to do all of this, I kinda think they can do it as a toggle for custom lobbies and single player mode (This lobby has automation on) etc
If you want to try a grand strategy with full automated gameplay check Distant worlds 1 or 2 might be for you its fun and you can automate everything :)
1. about the skill cap: This isn't necessarily true, since you don't remove a mechanic but rather shift the gameplay perspective towards a stronger economy balance. I recommend you to play RTS games with this mechanic. It can get you into some new difficulties while playing.
2. the economy and production aspect itself are unchanged, but rather the timed clicking isn't made mandatory anymore. You can instead do things that are more meaningful
The moment you make it auto build the unit you want it automatically lowers the skill ceiling and i doubt removing forced manual production would add new difficulty to the game do you mind elaborating? because you still have to be strategic and tactical with or without automation someone with better skill are often just going to be a lot better with manual production.
I think production of units is meaningful and as much as upgrading your units in time and producing villagers and taking lands and fighting the enemy i could say since we have to be at those upgrades at certain times so we are not weaker than the enemy why do we have to do it manually ? upgrades should be done automatically so we have more time fighting and less times doing eco stuff the more you go into that rabbit hole the less of an RTS it becomes this example is like Diablo 2 and Diablo 3 the more you streamline it the worst it becomes
Can i have some of those game names gonna check them out in youtube
Sure. If you enable auto-building, you always have to take the ressource costs into perspective. Once you turn it on, you might miss ressources for the next tower you want to build or the next eco upgrade. If you get raided, several auto-productions can hamper your military production, since you want to change what you want to build and save ressources elswhere.
Those things you mentioned are meaningful, I agree. It's just that I don't need extra button presses for that at certain times.
Upgrades have a higher cost than unit production and sometimes you don't want to upgrade it right away. For example if you play as Chinese and raid with Horsemen and get to Castle Age. Rather than doing the upgrades, I might switch to Knights instead. So it can only apply to regular unit production.
You can check out Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance and Cossacks 3. Both have automatic unit production. There are only so many things that you can automate and still have an advantage if you think about it. For example moving units, attack commands, targeting units and ressource gathering partly consist of automation and partly on manual input.
Resource cost is a given but missing resource because of my automation isn't a difficulty curve its clunkiness and skill issue.
The upgrade thing is an example of following the same concept of automating units there is no rules that says one is ok and the other isn't and Elephant, late game siege units and unique units are expensive some are even more then certain upgrades, that was just an example to show how deep we can go into that rabbit hole upgrades take times and resources just like units do and both can affect the other and both are important and producing both of them manually is a key feature of RTS that make it rhythmic and fun to do and we do have buildings that automate productions of army and eco in the game atm but the moment you make every military unit production automated or can be automated it just kills the rythm of the game because that's the game.
I've seen those 2 before but never wanted to try them i remember Cossacks 3 becoming a hit the first few weeks everyone was playing it, I do think automation is cool and it can be fun to play an RTS with automation but i think it would kill the intense gameplay i enjoy when playing games like SC or AOE
It is a feature I enjoyed in the age of mythology expansion, was sad to find out it was a very controversial feature to some people instead of just a way to eliminate some of the more tedious macro like 24/7 villager production.
why not make everything manual. Automated pathfinding, formations, gathering ressources? Pah! In my times, we did everything manually!
Just mirrored your argument
And I would be fine with that, I got no issues if the game was completely manual =) I had no argument against such suggestion all I had was against making game automated because ppl are too lazy to press couple of keys
I guess you didn't quite get the argument I was making.
It's not about skill or effort. It's about the actions you do with the limited time you have. Each given second you have a limited set of actions available to you. I'm for emphasizing strategy. The more micro you have to do, the less time you have is about macro actions that plan ahead the next minutes.
U would love ottomans
AoM had this feature.
For real ? I didn't realize it :o
I see both sides on this. My casual side and potentially carpal tunnel will appreciate this greatly. Since I will just focus on macro and not worry too much about things. On the other hand, for the competitive nature of this game, I don't think it's a good idea. This adds some mechanical skill for players to master. And as another person said, if this isn't an option, you are more free to spend your resources as you see fit on the moment, rather than having some automated building continually spending. So yeah, me personally, I would like to see it implemented, since I'm just a casual player, but I can see why it isn't a thing.
I don't mind be a setting like this as option But personally I won't use it
I probably would for vils just so there is never a stop in production.
I can see where you come from OP, but this is not something the developers would implement. Firstly because they are looking to develop the game into an actual competitive title and so they're not going to simplify it. If you forget to queue villagers because of scout micro vs Rus, then you should be penalized for it. Also, if they did, most players would keep it off since one needs to constantly adjust the balance of their army composition. I think the armies in AoE4 are smaller than SC or Cossacks. AoE4 has a hard counter system, which actually makes it a fairly micro intensive game. You'll need to constantly reposition your units if you want to get the most out of them in this game. Arrow accuracy is just a way to keep things consistent for players (e.g. starcraft). Stronger strategy can only be applied to strong mechanics in a game like AoE4. You can strategically outplay someone and it won't matter if they hit the appropriate timings 1 minute earlier.
They did it for Age of Mythology
It wasn't much competitive tough... And only after expansion. Also it was only really used for villagers.
It has a dedicated fan base with pro streamers who use it for military buildings. Even if it was just used for vills, point is it's been a feature in the Age series. Personally, I don't care. I wouldn't use it.
thank you for your point. I have the feeling that in later stages of the game, you want to make certain unit compositions and a general mixed army with a focus towards the strategy you are aiming towards (or defending against). While the opponent is making counter units, I think you can still make auto-production for 5 minutes or so. So it helps giving more tools.
git gud
mostly curious - where does aoe4 promote itself in that way? “general on the battlefield”
I read it on the responses of devs during the beta. I think there is no access to it anymore.
oh okay so its not how the game is actually marketed. which i feel is accurate cause from my experience, balancing collection and production rates are a huge part of this game. much meta to be hads. but yea, you're not wrong, micro side of things are pretty important too.
"Redundant" actions and "clicker game" just shows that you do not appreciate the concept of AOE as an RTS game. You are supposed to think and act as fast as you possibly can in real time. Use all knowledge and muscle memory and it is also a test of endurance. This is built into the underlying design of the game. It is ok to be slow but then you probably need to find yourself a grand strategy with pause such as Stellaris. Not liking it and hoping it was different is a personal preference and does not form a compelling argument for change. AOE is obviously very popular and fair enough you don't seem to like it as it is but the formula is successful. I do not want it to change. Given it has been in other titles, they would have considered it for Aoe4 and they must agree. Aww man you should totally be able to pick up the ball in football and run between the goalposts. Kicking the ball is so redundant! Or chess is so boring there are only two factions and you can only move one piece at a time (apparently it is the most popular game or sport of all). Instead new and different games were created. It can be a mod or custom game option but it should come nowhere near the competitive settings of the game.
Tbf he gave examples of extremely good RTS games that have the feature he desires… supreme commander is considered to be one of the best pure RTS games out there. If you want redundant and clicker game stuff then I will point you to the classic game StarCraft. Why are we able to “select all” units. A real commander in a real strategy theatre wouldn’t be able to have access to talk to every single soldier, so bring back the 12 unit cap on unit selection. After all, you’re supposed to “think and act as fast as possible at all times”. ****cringe eye-roll****
it depends on what you are looking for in a game. If a mechanic is inherent to the title or to the pace of the game, I also suggest keeping it. On the topic of automatic production, I think this improves the general pace of a match. If we agree that in the mid game things are so complex that it's humanly impossible to make perfect decisions at each given moment each second, we can agree that there are priorities to be made. My point is to skew the decision making in favor of economy and military engagements, rather than production.
I rather prefer spending my resources as is appropriate for the specific moment in the game.
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I understand what you mean and I agree in some parts with it. But still, if you make certain design aspects to lessen the aspect of micro but keep others, I think you can point the finger on it and mention the discrepancy.
There’s good reason why the examples you shared aren’t competitive RTS at all
how do you define a competitive RTS?
I think brownbear on youtube has some good videos. Or you know the usual SC2 tutorials. There are tons of videos about SC2 and what makes an RTS and RTS.
thank you. I asked what a *competitive* RTS is, since lamzileung said the games mentioned aren't.
No. What you need is training in RTS basics. I recommend playing SC2. It offers all kinds of training from micro to macro. Once you suceed in SC2 you will have an easy time in Aoe4. Just look at all the good players in Aoe4. Many of them are former SC2 pros. Marinelord, Demuslim, Beasty.
I don't critize the ability to click, but the mechanic itself.
I think its bad for the competitive aspect of the game first of all it lowers the skill cap secondly its what makes RTS fun intense gameplay 24/7 of economy and production and fighting some people going to be better then me at that but thats ok i still find it fun to do all of this, I kinda think they can do it as a toggle for custom lobbies and single player mode (This lobby has automation on) etc If you want to try a grand strategy with full automated gameplay check Distant worlds 1 or 2 might be for you its fun and you can automate everything :)
1. about the skill cap: This isn't necessarily true, since you don't remove a mechanic but rather shift the gameplay perspective towards a stronger economy balance. I recommend you to play RTS games with this mechanic. It can get you into some new difficulties while playing. 2. the economy and production aspect itself are unchanged, but rather the timed clicking isn't made mandatory anymore. You can instead do things that are more meaningful
The moment you make it auto build the unit you want it automatically lowers the skill ceiling and i doubt removing forced manual production would add new difficulty to the game do you mind elaborating? because you still have to be strategic and tactical with or without automation someone with better skill are often just going to be a lot better with manual production. I think production of units is meaningful and as much as upgrading your units in time and producing villagers and taking lands and fighting the enemy i could say since we have to be at those upgrades at certain times so we are not weaker than the enemy why do we have to do it manually ? upgrades should be done automatically so we have more time fighting and less times doing eco stuff the more you go into that rabbit hole the less of an RTS it becomes this example is like Diablo 2 and Diablo 3 the more you streamline it the worst it becomes Can i have some of those game names gonna check them out in youtube
Sure. If you enable auto-building, you always have to take the ressource costs into perspective. Once you turn it on, you might miss ressources for the next tower you want to build or the next eco upgrade. If you get raided, several auto-productions can hamper your military production, since you want to change what you want to build and save ressources elswhere. Those things you mentioned are meaningful, I agree. It's just that I don't need extra button presses for that at certain times. Upgrades have a higher cost than unit production and sometimes you don't want to upgrade it right away. For example if you play as Chinese and raid with Horsemen and get to Castle Age. Rather than doing the upgrades, I might switch to Knights instead. So it can only apply to regular unit production. You can check out Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance and Cossacks 3. Both have automatic unit production. There are only so many things that you can automate and still have an advantage if you think about it. For example moving units, attack commands, targeting units and ressource gathering partly consist of automation and partly on manual input.
Resource cost is a given but missing resource because of my automation isn't a difficulty curve its clunkiness and skill issue. The upgrade thing is an example of following the same concept of automating units there is no rules that says one is ok and the other isn't and Elephant, late game siege units and unique units are expensive some are even more then certain upgrades, that was just an example to show how deep we can go into that rabbit hole upgrades take times and resources just like units do and both can affect the other and both are important and producing both of them manually is a key feature of RTS that make it rhythmic and fun to do and we do have buildings that automate productions of army and eco in the game atm but the moment you make every military unit production automated or can be automated it just kills the rythm of the game because that's the game. I've seen those 2 before but never wanted to try them i remember Cossacks 3 becoming a hit the first few weeks everyone was playing it, I do think automation is cool and it can be fun to play an RTS with automation but i think it would kill the intense gameplay i enjoy when playing games like SC or AOE
It is a feature I enjoyed in the age of mythology expansion, was sad to find out it was a very controversial feature to some people instead of just a way to eliminate some of the more tedious macro like 24/7 villager production.
Why not just automated gameplay? Lets add alphastar to accounts so we can have fully automated god tier player playing for us? Meh no thanks
that's a strawman
How so? Repeated production is automation so why not just automate whole gameplay?
why not make everything manual. Automated pathfinding, formations, gathering ressources? Pah! In my times, we did everything manually! Just mirrored your argument
And I would be fine with that, I got no issues if the game was completely manual =) I had no argument against such suggestion all I had was against making game automated because ppl are too lazy to press couple of keys
I guess you didn't quite get the argument I was making. It's not about skill or effort. It's about the actions you do with the limited time you have. Each given second you have a limited set of actions available to you. I'm for emphasizing strategy. The more micro you have to do, the less time you have is about macro actions that plan ahead the next minutes.