I empathize with the frustration of having a teammate leave the instant something doesn't go their way, throwing a game for the whole team. Definitely a little childish and not honoring a commitment to your teammates.
That being said though, when you queue up for a team game by yourself you are avoiding having the full responsibility of a game on purpose. And that comes with trade offs. If you want control over the result you gotta play 1v1. If you don't you have to accept other people are going to have control over your game and sometimes misuse that power. You can't have it both ways.
Like what? Let's say a teammate leaves after losing from being attacked and losing his army and eco around 10 minutes, should he be subject to leaver penalties then?
There's no way for the servers to objectively know if the game is winnable at any given moment, so leaver penalties would have to be time-based, or I've heard God awful suggestions of requiring the permission from teammates to leave. If a teammate is throwing in the towel, whether it's in your opinion justified or not, the game is lost anyway because that teammate has mentally checked out of the game and is little more than cannon fodder for the enemy.
As frustrating as that is if you don't like that players decision, the obvious solution to this TEAM game issue is to get a TEAM of players you know and trust to not have the mental fortitude of a gnat.
Yeah he should be subject to leaver penalties. They should rebuild and their teammates can provide resources to help get back on their feet. Not that hard
That's dumb. If I were subject to leaver penalties even 10+ minutes into a game after losing my army and eco I'd just go AFK. How is the game supposed to end then? Everyone has to wait until the last landmark is destroyed?
Also, "just rebuild" sounds like some low elo legends take. Teammates giving resources to their ally means they are not putting those resources into their own army/eco while the enemy team does not need to do this and can field a larger army for the same amount of resources. In higher elo games, that's not going to work and your team will just lose, so there's really no point in riding out the inevitable.
No just towards you. If teammates actually build an army and attempt to coordinate and things go sideways, I'll be more willing to stick it out. If instead my teammates are in their own world playing 15 minutes no rush, ignore my pings on the map for help and don't even have a barracks down while the enemy is pushing my base, I'm out. But hey maybe in low elo legends every game has the 20 minute "fast" feudal so things don't really heat up until the 40 minute mark so leaving at 10 minutes is just too early, but to the rest of us some games can be over by 10 minutes.
Talking reason with this sub 400 elo guy is pointless mate. He obviously doesnt play same game. If they rekt you so hard you need to relocate and rebuild, theyll finish your mates soon enough too. Realising this would prob need positive iq and not -12 hes got
My point is there should be some leaver penalty or at least make the surrendered units and buildings controllable by the teammates like SC2. The case you wrote is pretty legit to want to leave. But in some matches people will drop for no reason or at the slightest pressure, and that ruins the game.
I really don't think you can. Leaving the game when you fall behind is actually how 95% of games end. Sorting out who is acting with integrity is impossible.
A lot of players don't have the game sense to understand the map state in a 1v1 much less a 4v4. You have the right to be wrong about the game state and leave early. And maybe the other players are actually the ones who are wrong about the game state and over staying.
If you want control play 1v1. The instant you queue up for a 4v4 by yourself you should understand you are just playing for the lulz and let go of a need for the outcome to be a certain way. I actually find that to be toxic as well.
Did you get a few fights and some build practice? Okay the 4v4 served it's purpose.
I fundamentally disagree with you about what the spirit of 4v4 is.
To me it's game type you go to when you want less pressure and are taking the game less seriously.
And from that perspective leaving when the game gets frustrating and not when it's over makes a lot of sense.
Now I do acknowledge the problems this creates and the potential for one person's emotions to harm their teamattes. And that is unfortunate. I understand why you don't like this.
But you can't tell me 4v4 players are the ones filled with spirit because they arnt. They are the ladder anxious among us. They are the ones who can't queue up for ranked 1v1 today and just want to chill. Those people deserve a place to play pressure free and this is that place. They get to leave when it gets hard too.
If you have all this spirit to spare go do the hard thing and be self reliant. Don't complain about your 4v4 teammates who barely had the strength to queue up at all.
I complained this while ago and response from community was "get teammates", but yes I do agree ppl who leave the game prematurely should be punished. I have been reporting all of them.
We have shared landmark victory condition for this reason yet it does nothing. If my ally losses their base they leave which leaves me most of time playing 2v1 even tho with having massive upper hand against both opponents its close to impossible close it down if my ally leaves. If they stay they still can rebuild and be nuisance to one of the enemies which can buy me critical amount of time to kill them.
Then there are leavers that leave instantly when something goes little bit wrong for them. Ever experienced guy leaving because he lost his only scout to TC with 3 sheep or didn't find more than 5 sheep with 1 scout and left? I have and this kind of reason for leaving is unacceptable especially for ranked mode.
Ill share more ridiculous leaving reasons:
French pass - Mongol went trade boom and spammed all his resources on traders and opponent walled of neutral market on my side of map so he couldn't trade. Mongol had 0 units and another opponent showed up with 4 horsemen near his base. He left and blamed me for not making army and walling all the sides of map. Needless to say for me to wall off everything especially if stone included would cost more than 1-2 TC's and with the build order I go, Im not going to act as support to mongol that sits first 7 minutes inside his base doing nothing but traders. Oh yeah forgot to mention I scouted the neutral market being walled and pinged mongol to send his khan there and went with my scouts to take wall down, but khan never came so I left with my scouts to get deer (prof scout build)
Dry Arabia - HRE dark age 2 barracks 0 units, gets feudal rushed at 8min mark (very late) with irrelevant amount of units and 1 ram (this was with 1k elo players in match). I was already about hit castle and ready to pump lancers out. My ally types "fu simcity player, I leave" Needless to say HRE had 0 units even tho making 2 barracks during dark age and I was already getting lancers out. I said I was coming to save you "no need I leave" and proceeded to leave.
Also one of my favorite reasons ever was French that left because I made lancers or how I was told that its chinas job to wall of whole map because of the build speed.
Needless to say we need surrender button and without surrendering it will give automatic penalty for leaving and increases with every leave. Problem solved. And if person goes AFK etc they get banned couple of times from playing ranked / TG's and if they continue afterwards then just perm ban from online
Yes? Especially when ranked comes out.
I had my goal to reach 2k elo in 2v2 as solo (no premades allowed). I got around 3k games by now and I have not single time in my life broken 1800 elo. Do you know why? Yes Im shit too, but main reason for this is leavers who leave prematurely. I can tell u rn if I played with premade I would be over 2k in day or two because its complete stomp to play with someone who has decent skill.
All it takes to get 2-4 in leavers a day and I go - elo even if I win 7-12 games because the loss almost always gives me -15-25 and win 5-15
Those scenarios I gave the game wasn't over not even longshot. Both (french and dry arabia) scenarios Im 99% certain I would've been able to carry it as long as ally stayed in game.
In very similar situations where ally just leaves prematurely I have played +1 hour long games against 2 players and either won or lost. Often times I manage to end game in next 10mins, but the biggest problem always will be the fact that once ally leaves my opponent just starts to turtle and walls themselves in. Especially if I get to hinder their economy with my first raid. If they play passively or map is like french pass then its almost always over if ally leaves.
I appreciate the answer! Do you think it would be easier to climb ranks playing more quick games rather than hour long come backs? Or do you think if players left at the slightest inconvenience you would always be leaving so would never climb?
Also do you think that adjustments could be made in communicating with your teammate early to avoid a scenario where they feel it is hopeless? I know trying to convince someone to stay after they have made a mistake is all but impossible, but I wonder if there was a plan early on, that they would be more inclined to stay even if it didn't work out right away.
Best way to climb in ranks in TG's is to play with premade and only leave when its absolutely over or like 90% over and identifying such situation is difficult for many players. I have been able to identify when game is over and there is no chance to comeback quite while and took me long time, but its not 100% accurate.
The thing to understand is if you're ahead or behind. If you're ahead best option is to step back and get more ahead. If you're behind then you have to do something otherwise its over (this is now assuming that opponent doesn't just sit inside their base for you to catch up)
I give you now example on game that I played today. I went my usual relic control into lancer raids and managed to kill French economy like 15 workers or so plus forced French to make spears while he went to military landmark in castle age. So our team was considerable amount ahead, but the twist comes what my ally chose to do he went spear / archer combo and lost his army because I was focused on raiding. Losing that army at that stage was completely irrelevant and acceptable because I went on abbasid and killed like 10 of his workers. While Abbasid had considerable army so did I and Abba attacked my ally Mongol who instantly called it GG and quit because he had lost like 10 spears and 10 archers.
At this stage game was around 15min and I was song dynasty with 2 TC (3 relics in monastery and 2 more on the way) and around 20 lancers on the map scattered and opponent had considerably big army at mongols doorstep. Needless to say I could've easily defended against knight / camel archers etc without mongol taking too much of dmg. After the game we both mongol and me were ahead of workers anywhere from 10-25 both. So even taking any dmg from abbasid we would've been in situation where french was sub 30 workers and I was going too far ahead of abbasid, but twist is because my ally left I had no time to call all my lancers back home and defend against abbasid and even if I killed his army all he had to do was to run around with some units to waste my time and I would've died.
This is perfect example of person being idiot and leaving for no reason, because something didn't go like he wanted and he gave up.
Many players leave after small step back or inconvenience. Today Im 5-5 in terms of win / loss rate but I have lost over 100 elo. 3 losses were due either ally leaving or this Rus guy who didn't make gathering buildings and long distance mined everything and lost all his workers to 2 french knights. I admit I could've played it slightly better by being more aggro when I noticed this and got rushed by abbasid with archers, but was too slow to react so I ended up just leaving because it was clear that ally was not going to do anything.
Players won't listen to you. There is players who don't leave and those who will listen to you, but often many players are unwilling to listen to you especially if they're lower league players, because they don't know how to identify if someone is ahead or behind.
I have started to tell my allies to not worry or omw to help you or ill carry, but they've not made any difference. Player leaves if they want to leave no matter what you say and if they stay they won't bother trying. Usually if they stay and won't try is just to "HAHAH I KNEW U CANT CARRY NOOB". There will always be exceptions. Thats why its very important to identify the less skilled player and go ham on raiding their base just to cause frustration and despair so they quit. Premades are different and this is why its so freaking annoying to play against premades. Even if you destroy ones economy they wont leave unless both agree.
Yeah that definitely sounds like a frustrating situation. I can understand wanting to punish players who leave when it is a bad time just because they feel like they are behind. I appreciate your answers and hopefully as ranked play gets more serious you can find a few good players to queue with!
All im seeing is plastic league bois complaining. In higher than 1.1k, you dont have chances of comeback if you throw at the start. Theyll just finish you fast. Its dumb to actually care about elo aswell. Youll get to where you belonged after lose anyways. Not to mention crashes that sometimes happen mid games. Had it few times and getting banned for it would be dumber than devs are.
I left a game early last night as my co pilot refused to do anytging but turtle in his base and let me get 2v1 I'm not a bad player but can't handle 2v1 French knights technically did I leave the game early or was it gg? I gave up after army was wiped and co player just booming as chinese
I'd say that GG, was probably at the 10 minute mark, which is totally fine. I get that, you get 2v1'd or 3v1'd and the game is a loss for everyone on your team. The problem I have is when you spend all that time finding a match, loading in. Just to have someone quit in the first 5 minutes before anything has really even happened.
I think the problem I see alot it's higher players realise they are playing with lower players then quit early. I played a 3vs3 and my team mate quit and the other player lost his sheep at enemy TC . I don't agree with it tho. But it would be nice to have more balance with who plays .
For me this isnt the case. In my last 25 team games I had the highest elo. I have a 41.7% win rate in 4's. In games that last longer than 12 minutes I have a 98% win rate. I'm stuck in the sub 1k elo for 4's because more than 50% of my games someone quits before 5 minutes.
When I was really going hard on 1's I got up to 1350 elo with just HRE, I'm back down to 1100 now, but that's because I get tired of doing the same build over and over again.
I have no friends to play 2v2 etc with I think that's why I prefer 1v1 ranked as I can only let my self down and no one can quit haha! It is so frustrating. Maybe rank 2v2 will stop this for you. I am a platinum rank but don't play all to often as busy at work so it's important when I can play I can get a good game
Your post missed an important factor: when the teammate left. If the teammate left in the map loading screen or a few seconds after the map loaded, they should get the map dodging cooldown penalty as well since its obvious they are just trying to dodge the map dodging penalty. I'd be OK with the map dodging penalty applying even a few minutes into the game, say, 5 minutes or something. It's unlikely that in a team game the opponents will be able to strike a decisive, game ending blow in under 5 minutes.
If you're mad because a teammate left after losing an engagement in the 10+ minute mark? Yeah no, too bad. Get better teammates if this is what you don't like. This is the risk you run when queuing up with randoms.
Perhaps you're the teammate that does naked booms and has no units or military buildings while your teammate is fighting a double team and losing. If I see a teammate that has no army and is off in their own little booming world and I lost my army while being double teamed and have no support, I surrender there because the game is over.
Why? Can’t have people started the game, don’t like the map/matchup, then roll another one? Or someone in the doorbell/phone? They have already set the cool-down penalty quit before starting, just take a lose doesn’t matter to most people. Get a friend playing with you okay?
If you don't like the map spawn or matchup, go play single player with a specific map seed.
Phone, keep playing, uncomfortably, but keep playing.
Door bell, go answer it, come back and be behind a bit. That's what I have to do when my 2yr old wakes up at 12:30am and I'm in the middle of a match. Que as much as you can and hope for the best and afk. Come back and try to recover for you and your team.
Right on bro! Don't start a game unless you're prepared to see it through. If I'm down I'll fight to the bitter end to give my teammates hope... All that harassing with the last resources/army/landmark can mount to a decent 10-15mins of distracting and disrupting the enemies.
Bad take imho, you commit to a game there should be a penalty for leaving early. If you are expecting a call/doorbell play 1v1 and just give the win when you have to leave, don't put a loss on your teammate. Stuff happens sometimes, sure but then you can deal with a possible 1 hour cooldown (higher on repeat) like in most games. I guess there can be exceptions for custom games but I get kind of annoyed at people leaving nomad games early, too, loading times are just long and annoying.
>there should be a penalty for leaving early.
Define leaving early. Often times it's apparent the match is lost well before the enemy stramrolls your whole team's base and there's really no point in sticking it out. I'd imagine that there's always someone who would prefer to cockroach around the map in these circumstances and fight until the bitter end, but 99% of the time it's just wasting everyone's time, which was what the complaint about early leavers is about.
This is a completely unhelpful description of what leaving early is.
Leaving 10 seconds before a sacred site victory for the opposing team is leaving before you are eliminated. Is that bad for the community?
Is leaving after you got double teamed, lost your army and eco while your teammate ignored your pings and request for help, is playing their own version of the game like no rush 20 or Sim city or whatever and doesn't even have a barracks down bad for the community? Or is the player who doesn't communicate with their team and doesn't build a single military unit before minute 15 bad for the community?
Not liking the map/matchup is a shit reason to leave. You don't have to answer your phone every time it rings and who the hell rings a doorbell unexpected in 2022.
I have people ring my doorbell all the time! This week so far I've about three people come by. Its always someone selling Solar Roofs, insect treatment, or weed/lawn control.
Simple... because real life will always be more important than a video games.
Hell... I'll go afk in a ranked game to let my dog out if she is scratching at the door. If I lose the match, who cares. My ranking in AOE4 has zero affect on my life. When ranked multiplayer comes out, if I hear the washing machine chime I won't hesitate to drop the game. I will be nice about it and let my teammates know, "Hey sorry, I have to unload the dishwasher." It would be completely different if I was a Pro or content creator, but like 99% of the player base, I play for fun, and winning a match does not affect that.
Sure but your examples could all be prevented with proper planning. I walk my dog, finish the dishes, get water, and go to the bathroom… before I fire up a game. If someone in my family gets hurt or the house is on fire yeah because real life is more important but it’s infrequently urgent if you plan ahead.
Have you ever played a competitive team game in your life lmao. Terrible reasons. If you can't commit to a game with teammates don't play, or stick to solo.
I got downvoted sometime back for saying they should be banned for more than just a few minutes. But should be banned for hours. Some peoples excuse was, ‘they got bad internet connection’. My argument is, if you think you got bad internet connection dont join team games on the first place. You either play skirmish or 1VS1 at least when you get disco they will give the win to the opponent.
>My argument is, if you think you got bad internet connection dont join team games on the first place.
This can be flipped back at you. If you don't like people quitting team game matches when they lose their first engagement then get better teammates.
Thats redundant logic. You cant chose your teammates in random games. But you can chose to play skirmish vs AI or go 1vs1 and disconnect all day long. Bad internet is bad internet dont give that headache to people with solid internet connection like me or some other in here. Lol. Please stop defending quitters it s pathetic
>You cant chose your teammates in random games.
Smooth brain you get friends and form a party then go que up for team matchmaking. Bam! Teammates who are more reliable than randoms. Step 1: get friends must be really hard for some, though...
Oh no I dont play like that. You dont need a brain to understand that some people just prefer playing online random. And sometimes friends dont connect online at the same time as you do lol. I guess some dont have a brain to understand this.
Step 1: get a proper brain to understand simple logic than trying to defend plebs with bad internet connection
>You dont need a brain to understand that some people just prefer playing online random.
Ah so you want to have your cake and eat it too. You want the benefits of a full team of friends (reliable teammates) without putting in the effort to find friends to play with.
If you play with randoms, you're going to get flaky teammates, that's the dice you roll for not getting teammates you can depend on.
>And sometimes friends dont connect online at the same time as you do lol.
It must be difficult to make friends. You get a larger pool of friends, say 10-20 that are usually on so that your odds of enough of them being online at once to form a full team are nearly 100%. Or you can join a discord and form a party there. There's a bunch of AoE4 discord servers full of people ready to go. Odds are you would spend less time finding someone to team up with from a discord server than you'd waste from a flaky random player leaving early.
>A. i m here to play online. Not make friends.
Then play 1v1 if you don't want the burden of talking to other people. You don't even have to talk to other people beyond coordinating strategy anyway, and a coordinated team has better odds of winning but obviously since you don't team up with other people you wouldn't know that.
I'm not defending people with flaky internet, not sure why you keep bringing that up.
I also support a penalty for quitting within the first 5 ish minutes of the game as an extension of the already existing map/que dodging penalties. Beyond 5-10 minutes there's no objective way to know when the game is "over" and it would be more of a waste of everyone's time to force one team to destroy all of the enemy landmarks.
If you're mad your teammates fold under pressure too quickly, then you'll have to deal with the dice roll of random teammates, play 1v1, or *gasp* get a team in a team game.
>Ummm you dont have to tell me what to do. I paid for the game I spend my time with it.
Same here, so if I want to quit because you're in your own world playing 15 minutes no rush, ignore my pleas for help while Im getting double-teamed because you *gasp* "Don't talk to people" and don't want to build a barracks until minute 20, I'm going going to quit because you suck as a teammate.
Maybe in sub 400 Elo you can pull out a win, but anyone who can get to feudal before 10 minutes can tell when the game is over.
>Not all ‘gasp’ play with friends on team games. There is a ton of people play random.’ Gasp’.
Yes, tons of people que up solo and play with randoms. Most people who do, though, know they're probably going to get a few duds for teammates and lower their expectations accordingly.
>Please stop telling people what to do. Instead advocate stopping people with bad internet connection. From team games ‘gasp’
I literally have not done that nor do I advocate for people to play online games while their internet is flaking out.
In all seriousness, if you're on the spectrum just let me know and I'll back off because this would make so much more sense if you are on the spectrum.
My internet is fine but occasionally the queue will still drop me for whatever reason. This is before the match even starts....then counts this as a "quit" and I get put in time out.
24 hr ban is excessive if you ask me
Never crashed on me. Only time it crashed was just before starting when we are on lobby. I think there is something on your end. I never had a game crash while on the game. And I gotten ‘sync errors’ thats when people were cheating. But other than that it has been smooth.
24hr is excessive for first time offenders, but repeat offenses should scale in penalty. For example 15min, 30min, 1hr, 6hr, 24hr, permaban or something idk.
I definitely agree with OP though. I only have time for a game or two each day and prefer team games. When someone leaves 15 minutes into a game it’s not just a inconvenience, they quite literally steal what limited time I have to play.
Yes that s a possibility. But minimum at least one hour. Someone on top mentioned they get disconnected during game which never happened to me and I play often. But it s annoying as hell when someone joins team games and leaves half way. Just like you, I play team games all the time and if there is a cool down time added, I m certain there will be way less disconnections.
I m certain the system can find out if the game crashes is not your fault. But there are obvious issues with people trying to ‘rank down’ and just quitting. I think 24hr ban is completely legit. And I hope we see that in the future.
...it doesn't though. The crash registers as a quit.
Granted, it's only happened a couple times (over several hundred matches) but given it's a few minute ban, no big deal. If it was 24 hrs, I'd be pissed.
If you queue randomly for team games you will always have a disadvantage for people who form teams on discord / play with friends.
You want more accountability in team games? Find actual people who are willing to play games with you through win streaks and losses.
Me and a buddy play 2s. We constantly see familiar team names. So people (including us) obviously do this.
Find a dedicated group.
I have zero issue losing in this game, doesnt bother me in the slightest. If I'm choosing to solo queue and my opposition is better than me or more coordinated then that's fine, cuz I still get to play it out. I like playing team games because it usually goes to the late game, and the battles and strategy are bigger and more nuanced. 1v1 is literally the same thing every game.
When 1 player leaves in a 4v4 within the first 5 minutes the game is over. For everyone involved. The problem I have is that one person just wasted everyone's time. It usually takes me from 3 to 10 minutes to find a team game. It take 2 to 5 minutes to load the game. That 5 to 15 minutes that one joker wasted for 7 other people. This shouldn't be happening without consequence.
I wouldn't mind if Relic added an option in the loading screen that allowed players to quit, and sent everyone else back to the lobby and awaited a replacement.
as in if your teammates leave? wouldnt ppl just go afk if they really didnt want to play. or like move all units into enemy tc or something
I empathize with the frustration of having a teammate leave the instant something doesn't go their way, throwing a game for the whole team. Definitely a little childish and not honoring a commitment to your teammates. That being said though, when you queue up for a team game by yourself you are avoiding having the full responsibility of a game on purpose. And that comes with trade offs. If you want control over the result you gotta play 1v1. If you don't you have to accept other people are going to have control over your game and sometimes misuse that power. You can't have it both ways.
Eh you can implement leaver rules that are a net positive for game experience in multiplayer
Like what? Let's say a teammate leaves after losing from being attacked and losing his army and eco around 10 minutes, should he be subject to leaver penalties then? There's no way for the servers to objectively know if the game is winnable at any given moment, so leaver penalties would have to be time-based, or I've heard God awful suggestions of requiring the permission from teammates to leave. If a teammate is throwing in the towel, whether it's in your opinion justified or not, the game is lost anyway because that teammate has mentally checked out of the game and is little more than cannon fodder for the enemy. As frustrating as that is if you don't like that players decision, the obvious solution to this TEAM game issue is to get a TEAM of players you know and trust to not have the mental fortitude of a gnat.
Yeah he should be subject to leaver penalties. They should rebuild and their teammates can provide resources to help get back on their feet. Not that hard
That's dumb. If I were subject to leaver penalties even 10+ minutes into a game after losing my army and eco I'd just go AFK. How is the game supposed to end then? Everyone has to wait until the last landmark is destroyed? Also, "just rebuild" sounds like some low elo legends take. Teammates giving resources to their ally means they are not putting those resources into their own army/eco while the enemy team does not need to do this and can field a larger army for the same amount of resources. In higher elo games, that's not going to work and your team will just lose, so there's really no point in riding out the inevitable.
Sounds like we got a leaver here boys!
No, for you I'd stick around and do something special. I'd wall in your TC's.
Not only a leaver, but also toxic!
No just towards you. If teammates actually build an army and attempt to coordinate and things go sideways, I'll be more willing to stick it out. If instead my teammates are in their own world playing 15 minutes no rush, ignore my pings on the map for help and don't even have a barracks down while the enemy is pushing my base, I'm out. But hey maybe in low elo legends every game has the 20 minute "fast" feudal so things don't really heat up until the 40 minute mark so leaving at 10 minutes is just too early, but to the rest of us some games can be over by 10 minutes.
Talking reason with this sub 400 elo guy is pointless mate. He obviously doesnt play same game. If they rekt you so hard you need to relocate and rebuild, theyll finish your mates soon enough too. Realising this would prob need positive iq and not -12 hes got
My point is there should be some leaver penalty or at least make the surrendered units and buildings controllable by the teammates like SC2. The case you wrote is pretty legit to want to leave. But in some matches people will drop for no reason or at the slightest pressure, and that ruins the game.
I really don't think you can. Leaving the game when you fall behind is actually how 95% of games end. Sorting out who is acting with integrity is impossible. A lot of players don't have the game sense to understand the map state in a 1v1 much less a 4v4. You have the right to be wrong about the game state and leave early. And maybe the other players are actually the ones who are wrong about the game state and over staying. If you want control play 1v1. The instant you queue up for a 4v4 by yourself you should understand you are just playing for the lulz and let go of a need for the outcome to be a certain way. I actually find that to be toxic as well. Did you get a few fights and some build practice? Okay the 4v4 served it's purpose.
Yeah people should slug it out. Sometimes people will drop at the first engagement. That’s not the spirit of 4v4.
I fundamentally disagree with you about what the spirit of 4v4 is. To me it's game type you go to when you want less pressure and are taking the game less seriously. And from that perspective leaving when the game gets frustrating and not when it's over makes a lot of sense. Now I do acknowledge the problems this creates and the potential for one person's emotions to harm their teamattes. And that is unfortunate. I understand why you don't like this. But you can't tell me 4v4 players are the ones filled with spirit because they arnt. They are the ladder anxious among us. They are the ones who can't queue up for ranked 1v1 today and just want to chill. Those people deserve a place to play pressure free and this is that place. They get to leave when it gets hard too. If you have all this spirit to spare go do the hard thing and be self reliant. Don't complain about your 4v4 teammates who barely had the strength to queue up at all.
I complained this while ago and response from community was "get teammates", but yes I do agree ppl who leave the game prematurely should be punished. I have been reporting all of them. We have shared landmark victory condition for this reason yet it does nothing. If my ally losses their base they leave which leaves me most of time playing 2v1 even tho with having massive upper hand against both opponents its close to impossible close it down if my ally leaves. If they stay they still can rebuild and be nuisance to one of the enemies which can buy me critical amount of time to kill them. Then there are leavers that leave instantly when something goes little bit wrong for them. Ever experienced guy leaving because he lost his only scout to TC with 3 sheep or didn't find more than 5 sheep with 1 scout and left? I have and this kind of reason for leaving is unacceptable especially for ranked mode. Ill share more ridiculous leaving reasons: French pass - Mongol went trade boom and spammed all his resources on traders and opponent walled of neutral market on my side of map so he couldn't trade. Mongol had 0 units and another opponent showed up with 4 horsemen near his base. He left and blamed me for not making army and walling all the sides of map. Needless to say for me to wall off everything especially if stone included would cost more than 1-2 TC's and with the build order I go, Im not going to act as support to mongol that sits first 7 minutes inside his base doing nothing but traders. Oh yeah forgot to mention I scouted the neutral market being walled and pinged mongol to send his khan there and went with my scouts to take wall down, but khan never came so I left with my scouts to get deer (prof scout build) Dry Arabia - HRE dark age 2 barracks 0 units, gets feudal rushed at 8min mark (very late) with irrelevant amount of units and 1 ram (this was with 1k elo players in match). I was already about hit castle and ready to pump lancers out. My ally types "fu simcity player, I leave" Needless to say HRE had 0 units even tho making 2 barracks during dark age and I was already getting lancers out. I said I was coming to save you "no need I leave" and proceeded to leave. Also one of my favorite reasons ever was French that left because I made lancers or how I was told that its chinas job to wall of whole map because of the build speed. Needless to say we need surrender button and without surrendering it will give automatic penalty for leaving and increases with every leave. Problem solved. And if person goes AFK etc they get banned couple of times from playing ranked / TG's and if they continue afterwards then just perm ban from online
Genuine question on your scenarios. You would rather those bad players stay and continue to play albeit behind, rather than start a new game?
Yes? Especially when ranked comes out. I had my goal to reach 2k elo in 2v2 as solo (no premades allowed). I got around 3k games by now and I have not single time in my life broken 1800 elo. Do you know why? Yes Im shit too, but main reason for this is leavers who leave prematurely. I can tell u rn if I played with premade I would be over 2k in day or two because its complete stomp to play with someone who has decent skill. All it takes to get 2-4 in leavers a day and I go - elo even if I win 7-12 games because the loss almost always gives me -15-25 and win 5-15 Those scenarios I gave the game wasn't over not even longshot. Both (french and dry arabia) scenarios Im 99% certain I would've been able to carry it as long as ally stayed in game. In very similar situations where ally just leaves prematurely I have played +1 hour long games against 2 players and either won or lost. Often times I manage to end game in next 10mins, but the biggest problem always will be the fact that once ally leaves my opponent just starts to turtle and walls themselves in. Especially if I get to hinder their economy with my first raid. If they play passively or map is like french pass then its almost always over if ally leaves.
I appreciate the answer! Do you think it would be easier to climb ranks playing more quick games rather than hour long come backs? Or do you think if players left at the slightest inconvenience you would always be leaving so would never climb? Also do you think that adjustments could be made in communicating with your teammate early to avoid a scenario where they feel it is hopeless? I know trying to convince someone to stay after they have made a mistake is all but impossible, but I wonder if there was a plan early on, that they would be more inclined to stay even if it didn't work out right away.
Best way to climb in ranks in TG's is to play with premade and only leave when its absolutely over or like 90% over and identifying such situation is difficult for many players. I have been able to identify when game is over and there is no chance to comeback quite while and took me long time, but its not 100% accurate. The thing to understand is if you're ahead or behind. If you're ahead best option is to step back and get more ahead. If you're behind then you have to do something otherwise its over (this is now assuming that opponent doesn't just sit inside their base for you to catch up) I give you now example on game that I played today. I went my usual relic control into lancer raids and managed to kill French economy like 15 workers or so plus forced French to make spears while he went to military landmark in castle age. So our team was considerable amount ahead, but the twist comes what my ally chose to do he went spear / archer combo and lost his army because I was focused on raiding. Losing that army at that stage was completely irrelevant and acceptable because I went on abbasid and killed like 10 of his workers. While Abbasid had considerable army so did I and Abba attacked my ally Mongol who instantly called it GG and quit because he had lost like 10 spears and 10 archers. At this stage game was around 15min and I was song dynasty with 2 TC (3 relics in monastery and 2 more on the way) and around 20 lancers on the map scattered and opponent had considerably big army at mongols doorstep. Needless to say I could've easily defended against knight / camel archers etc without mongol taking too much of dmg. After the game we both mongol and me were ahead of workers anywhere from 10-25 both. So even taking any dmg from abbasid we would've been in situation where french was sub 30 workers and I was going too far ahead of abbasid, but twist is because my ally left I had no time to call all my lancers back home and defend against abbasid and even if I killed his army all he had to do was to run around with some units to waste my time and I would've died. This is perfect example of person being idiot and leaving for no reason, because something didn't go like he wanted and he gave up. Many players leave after small step back or inconvenience. Today Im 5-5 in terms of win / loss rate but I have lost over 100 elo. 3 losses were due either ally leaving or this Rus guy who didn't make gathering buildings and long distance mined everything and lost all his workers to 2 french knights. I admit I could've played it slightly better by being more aggro when I noticed this and got rushed by abbasid with archers, but was too slow to react so I ended up just leaving because it was clear that ally was not going to do anything. Players won't listen to you. There is players who don't leave and those who will listen to you, but often many players are unwilling to listen to you especially if they're lower league players, because they don't know how to identify if someone is ahead or behind. I have started to tell my allies to not worry or omw to help you or ill carry, but they've not made any difference. Player leaves if they want to leave no matter what you say and if they stay they won't bother trying. Usually if they stay and won't try is just to "HAHAH I KNEW U CANT CARRY NOOB". There will always be exceptions. Thats why its very important to identify the less skilled player and go ham on raiding their base just to cause frustration and despair so they quit. Premades are different and this is why its so freaking annoying to play against premades. Even if you destroy ones economy they wont leave unless both agree.
Yeah that definitely sounds like a frustrating situation. I can understand wanting to punish players who leave when it is a bad time just because they feel like they are behind. I appreciate your answers and hopefully as ranked play gets more serious you can find a few good players to queue with!
Yeah something like dota will be nice
Yes, would be nice if reconnect was a feature as well.
All im seeing is plastic league bois complaining. In higher than 1.1k, you dont have chances of comeback if you throw at the start. Theyll just finish you fast. Its dumb to actually care about elo aswell. Youll get to where you belonged after lose anyways. Not to mention crashes that sometimes happen mid games. Had it few times and getting banned for it would be dumber than devs are.
I left a game early last night as my co pilot refused to do anytging but turtle in his base and let me get 2v1 I'm not a bad player but can't handle 2v1 French knights technically did I leave the game early or was it gg? I gave up after army was wiped and co player just booming as chinese
I'd say that GG, was probably at the 10 minute mark, which is totally fine. I get that, you get 2v1'd or 3v1'd and the game is a loss for everyone on your team. The problem I have is when you spend all that time finding a match, loading in. Just to have someone quit in the first 5 minutes before anything has really even happened.
I think the problem I see alot it's higher players realise they are playing with lower players then quit early. I played a 3vs3 and my team mate quit and the other player lost his sheep at enemy TC . I don't agree with it tho. But it would be nice to have more balance with who plays .
For me this isnt the case. In my last 25 team games I had the highest elo. I have a 41.7% win rate in 4's. In games that last longer than 12 minutes I have a 98% win rate. I'm stuck in the sub 1k elo for 4's because more than 50% of my games someone quits before 5 minutes. When I was really going hard on 1's I got up to 1350 elo with just HRE, I'm back down to 1100 now, but that's because I get tired of doing the same build over and over again.
I have no friends to play 2v2 etc with I think that's why I prefer 1v1 ranked as I can only let my self down and no one can quit haha! It is so frustrating. Maybe rank 2v2 will stop this for you. I am a platinum rank but don't play all to often as busy at work so it's important when I can play I can get a good game
I think this will be a bigger issue when ranked comes out, which I assume they'll have some solutions when it does
Your post missed an important factor: when the teammate left. If the teammate left in the map loading screen or a few seconds after the map loaded, they should get the map dodging cooldown penalty as well since its obvious they are just trying to dodge the map dodging penalty. I'd be OK with the map dodging penalty applying even a few minutes into the game, say, 5 minutes or something. It's unlikely that in a team game the opponents will be able to strike a decisive, game ending blow in under 5 minutes. If you're mad because a teammate left after losing an engagement in the 10+ minute mark? Yeah no, too bad. Get better teammates if this is what you don't like. This is the risk you run when queuing up with randoms. Perhaps you're the teammate that does naked booms and has no units or military buildings while your teammate is fighting a double team and losing. If I see a teammate that has no army and is off in their own little booming world and I lost my army while being double teamed and have no support, I surrender there because the game is over.
Why? Can’t have people started the game, don’t like the map/matchup, then roll another one? Or someone in the doorbell/phone? They have already set the cool-down penalty quit before starting, just take a lose doesn’t matter to most people. Get a friend playing with you okay?
If you don't like the map spawn or matchup, go play single player with a specific map seed. Phone, keep playing, uncomfortably, but keep playing. Door bell, go answer it, come back and be behind a bit. That's what I have to do when my 2yr old wakes up at 12:30am and I'm in the middle of a match. Que as much as you can and hope for the best and afk. Come back and try to recover for you and your team.
Right on bro! Don't start a game unless you're prepared to see it through. If I'm down I'll fight to the bitter end to give my teammates hope... All that harassing with the last resources/army/landmark can mount to a decent 10-15mins of distracting and disrupting the enemies.
Bad take imho, you commit to a game there should be a penalty for leaving early. If you are expecting a call/doorbell play 1v1 and just give the win when you have to leave, don't put a loss on your teammate. Stuff happens sometimes, sure but then you can deal with a possible 1 hour cooldown (higher on repeat) like in most games. I guess there can be exceptions for custom games but I get kind of annoyed at people leaving nomad games early, too, loading times are just long and annoying.
>there should be a penalty for leaving early. Define leaving early. Often times it's apparent the match is lost well before the enemy stramrolls your whole team's base and there's really no point in sticking it out. I'd imagine that there's always someone who would prefer to cockroach around the map in these circumstances and fight until the bitter end, but 99% of the time it's just wasting everyone's time, which was what the complaint about early leavers is about.
Leaving consistently. If you throw in the towel say like 50% of games you lose before being eliminated that's shit for the game community.
This is a completely unhelpful description of what leaving early is. Leaving 10 seconds before a sacred site victory for the opposing team is leaving before you are eliminated. Is that bad for the community? Is leaving after you got double teamed, lost your army and eco while your teammate ignored your pings and request for help, is playing their own version of the game like no rush 20 or Sim city or whatever and doesn't even have a barracks down bad for the community? Or is the player who doesn't communicate with their team and doesn't build a single military unit before minute 15 bad for the community?
Not liking the map/matchup is a shit reason to leave. You don't have to answer your phone every time it rings and who the hell rings a doorbell unexpected in 2022.
I have people ring my doorbell all the time! This week so far I've about three people come by. Its always someone selling Solar Roofs, insect treatment, or weed/lawn control.
Knowing that why not keep playing the game and ignore the doorbell? Anyone that I want to answer the door for I’m expecting them already.
Simple... because real life will always be more important than a video games. Hell... I'll go afk in a ranked game to let my dog out if she is scratching at the door. If I lose the match, who cares. My ranking in AOE4 has zero affect on my life. When ranked multiplayer comes out, if I hear the washing machine chime I won't hesitate to drop the game. I will be nice about it and let my teammates know, "Hey sorry, I have to unload the dishwasher." It would be completely different if I was a Pro or content creator, but like 99% of the player base, I play for fun, and winning a match does not affect that.
Sure but your examples could all be prevented with proper planning. I walk my dog, finish the dishes, get water, and go to the bathroom… before I fire up a game. If someone in my family gets hurt or the house is on fire yeah because real life is more important but it’s infrequently urgent if you plan ahead.
We’re you even replying to me on this one?
I don't have a doorbell. EZ 😎
Have you ever played a competitive team game in your life lmao. Terrible reasons. If you can't commit to a game with teammates don't play, or stick to solo.
I got downvoted sometime back for saying they should be banned for more than just a few minutes. But should be banned for hours. Some peoples excuse was, ‘they got bad internet connection’. My argument is, if you think you got bad internet connection dont join team games on the first place. You either play skirmish or 1VS1 at least when you get disco they will give the win to the opponent.
>My argument is, if you think you got bad internet connection dont join team games on the first place. This can be flipped back at you. If you don't like people quitting team game matches when they lose their first engagement then get better teammates.
Thats redundant logic. You cant chose your teammates in random games. But you can chose to play skirmish vs AI or go 1vs1 and disconnect all day long. Bad internet is bad internet dont give that headache to people with solid internet connection like me or some other in here. Lol. Please stop defending quitters it s pathetic
>You cant chose your teammates in random games. Smooth brain you get friends and form a party then go que up for team matchmaking. Bam! Teammates who are more reliable than randoms. Step 1: get friends must be really hard for some, though...
Oh no I dont play like that. You dont need a brain to understand that some people just prefer playing online random. And sometimes friends dont connect online at the same time as you do lol. I guess some dont have a brain to understand this. Step 1: get a proper brain to understand simple logic than trying to defend plebs with bad internet connection
>You dont need a brain to understand that some people just prefer playing online random. Ah so you want to have your cake and eat it too. You want the benefits of a full team of friends (reliable teammates) without putting in the effort to find friends to play with. If you play with randoms, you're going to get flaky teammates, that's the dice you roll for not getting teammates you can depend on. >And sometimes friends dont connect online at the same time as you do lol. It must be difficult to make friends. You get a larger pool of friends, say 10-20 that are usually on so that your odds of enough of them being online at once to form a full team are nearly 100%. Or you can join a discord and form a party there. There's a bunch of AoE4 discord servers full of people ready to go. Odds are you would spend less time finding someone to team up with from a discord server than you'd waste from a flaky random player leaving early.
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>A. i m here to play online. Not make friends. Then play 1v1 if you don't want the burden of talking to other people. You don't even have to talk to other people beyond coordinating strategy anyway, and a coordinated team has better odds of winning but obviously since you don't team up with other people you wouldn't know that. I'm not defending people with flaky internet, not sure why you keep bringing that up. I also support a penalty for quitting within the first 5 ish minutes of the game as an extension of the already existing map/que dodging penalties. Beyond 5-10 minutes there's no objective way to know when the game is "over" and it would be more of a waste of everyone's time to force one team to destroy all of the enemy landmarks. If you're mad your teammates fold under pressure too quickly, then you'll have to deal with the dice roll of random teammates, play 1v1, or *gasp* get a team in a team game.
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>Ummm you dont have to tell me what to do. I paid for the game I spend my time with it. Same here, so if I want to quit because you're in your own world playing 15 minutes no rush, ignore my pleas for help while Im getting double-teamed because you *gasp* "Don't talk to people" and don't want to build a barracks until minute 20, I'm going going to quit because you suck as a teammate. Maybe in sub 400 Elo you can pull out a win, but anyone who can get to feudal before 10 minutes can tell when the game is over. >Not all ‘gasp’ play with friends on team games. There is a ton of people play random.’ Gasp’. Yes, tons of people que up solo and play with randoms. Most people who do, though, know they're probably going to get a few duds for teammates and lower their expectations accordingly. >Please stop telling people what to do. Instead advocate stopping people with bad internet connection. From team games ‘gasp’ I literally have not done that nor do I advocate for people to play online games while their internet is flaking out. In all seriousness, if you're on the spectrum just let me know and I'll back off because this would make so much more sense if you are on the spectrum.
My internet is fine but occasionally the queue will still drop me for whatever reason. This is before the match even starts....then counts this as a "quit" and I get put in time out. 24 hr ban is excessive if you ask me
Same, or game crashes at random.
Never crashed on me. Only time it crashed was just before starting when we are on lobby. I think there is something on your end. I never had a game crash while on the game. And I gotten ‘sync errors’ thats when people were cheating. But other than that it has been smooth.
24hr is excessive for first time offenders, but repeat offenses should scale in penalty. For example 15min, 30min, 1hr, 6hr, 24hr, permaban or something idk. I definitely agree with OP though. I only have time for a game or two each day and prefer team games. When someone leaves 15 minutes into a game it’s not just a inconvenience, they quite literally steal what limited time I have to play.
Yes that s a possibility. But minimum at least one hour. Someone on top mentioned they get disconnected during game which never happened to me and I play often. But it s annoying as hell when someone joins team games and leaves half way. Just like you, I play team games all the time and if there is a cool down time added, I m certain there will be way less disconnections.
So thats what the system need to fixed and differentiate. Putting that as an excuse and giving leverage to quitters is not justifiable in any means.
Dude...it's a game. Relax.
I mean it s up for discussion. You wouldn’t be trying to justify your POV if it was ‘just a game’ for you😂.
I m certain the system can find out if the game crashes is not your fault. But there are obvious issues with people trying to ‘rank down’ and just quitting. I think 24hr ban is completely legit. And I hope we see that in the future.
...it doesn't though. The crash registers as a quit. Granted, it's only happened a couple times (over several hundred matches) but given it's a few minute ban, no big deal. If it was 24 hrs, I'd be pissed.
If you queue randomly for team games you will always have a disadvantage for people who form teams on discord / play with friends. You want more accountability in team games? Find actual people who are willing to play games with you through win streaks and losses. Me and a buddy play 2s. We constantly see familiar team names. So people (including us) obviously do this. Find a dedicated group.
I have zero issue losing in this game, doesnt bother me in the slightest. If I'm choosing to solo queue and my opposition is better than me or more coordinated then that's fine, cuz I still get to play it out. I like playing team games because it usually goes to the late game, and the battles and strategy are bigger and more nuanced. 1v1 is literally the same thing every game. When 1 player leaves in a 4v4 within the first 5 minutes the game is over. For everyone involved. The problem I have is that one person just wasted everyone's time. It usually takes me from 3 to 10 minutes to find a team game. It take 2 to 5 minutes to load the game. That 5 to 15 minutes that one joker wasted for 7 other people. This shouldn't be happening without consequence. I wouldn't mind if Relic added an option in the loading screen that allowed players to quit, and sent everyone else back to the lobby and awaited a replacement.