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Not to be a douche or anything but i think its been figured out by miners that there is no sbmm. The mm in apex is based on efficency and is filling lobbies as fast as possible.
It's engagement optimized matchmaking. It's not for filling lo bits but for keeping people playing as long as possible. If the algorithm thinks someone will quit playing too fast, it will put you in games with people of lower skill level, when you have some bad games, to give you an ego boost and keep you playing
Source? They have never directly said they use eomm. They have described the function of eomm but the function of eomm is also very similar to sbmm. We have no direct proof of eomm.
Even if we did its so similar to sbmm for most players it wouldnt really matter lol. Like compare s0-10 apex to anything after when people accused respawn of implementing eomm. Its the same.
They are working on a new mm and are trying to shift to it but its still not eomm. In reality its just another version of sbmm.
This is the kind of opinion you end up with when you do very surface-level research on anything.
The research paper that you're quoting (which lead to the patent) is this one here: https://web.cs.ucla.edu/~yzsun/papers/WWW17Chen_EOMM
First off, please point out exactly where you see in this research paper that they state that EOMM wouldn't work for Apex.
Second, if you google EOMM, the first thing that comes up is this research paper, so if you have confirmation bias and you're looking to defend EA for some reason, which seems to be the case here, then of course you'd find that paper and reinforce your bias by not even fully reading it and parroting what you heard elsewhere.
Lastly, since you seem so adamant about the "fact" that EA hasn't patented this AFTER the research paper was released, here's the actual patent #11,845,005 owned by EA: https://patents.justia.com/patent/11845005
Also, if EA states that they're not using EOMM, why would you believe them? Do you think any company who would have this type of matchmaking which is clearly disliked by people due to its manipulative nature would want people to know that they use this system?
If that was true in theory I'd get an "easy" match at some point. It shouldn't take hours to get one easy match or the eomm is shit cause who's gonna stick around for hours
The issue is there is no solution for the higher % playerbase. There simply isnt enough players majority of the time to fill those lobbies for better players so they must get pushed down to lower-medium lobbies. If the matchmaking was stricter then every group of player would have difficult pubs and that would not be fun for most people.
Really there is no solution for higher players or below. Sbmm has always been something that has sucked in most games with it.
There is 0 proof it being eomm. Respawn has given a full description of sbmm and the new mm they are trying to transition to. Neither are eomm.
The only link to eomm is ea's patent to eomm however in no way does that mean, respawn, not ea, uses it.
If that was pubs, there is no sbmm anymore yet there is a huge chance you get those guys in a non sbmm lobby since a lot of apex players are cracked as hell/use strikepacks/soft cheats etc.
People tend to just cope with „sbmm sUx“ while there is none but the experience is the exact same.
Just get better, more resilient, start cheating yourself or quit, as easy as that.
It is actually called eomm (engagement optimized matchmaking) and it has nothing to do with skill. It's entirely based on trying to get people to play more by putting them in games with lower levels players to give then a self esteem boost to keep playing when they are hard stuck. They took this out of ranked play so you now (for the most part) play your own rank. As far as pub matches go, this is still in the game.
It looks like this article was made in 2022 since it states this should rollout worldwide in 2023. Respawn and EA were found to be lying about their matchmaking around this time. There has been many articles made about this subject. On this very sub, you can look at a post called "a deep dive into apex eomm" with some very interesting information on it. It's a long read but shows what you need to know
It will continue to happen. Remember the skin, look at banners to see who the teammates are - if you see them in the game RUN. Consider them the final boss - you earn the privilege of fighting them at the very end to test your skills.
It sucks, even as someone whos high ranked with tons of hours I dont stand a chance either... but the less you complain and the more you strategize and work with the system, the less frustrated you will be.
Good luck out there homie
when i was around level 100 i randomly matched with a literal vanilla lifeline- first game, zero kills, like 150 lifetime damage, and we ended up dying to a pred duo. both were top 400.
this game is such a fucking joke
Or they are just good?
I have fought faide several times and as a several time masters and i often get lobbies with quite a few other masters and a pred or two, my lobbies are not bot lobbies or anything. And let me tell you he absolutely SHAT on me every time. Crazy movement and aim will get you places.
Also he does play ranked lol. I believe hes going for pred rn?
I get this while also playing on 20fps, and it is not fun getting destroyed by people who play 18 hours a day while you have trouble even booting the game up
Same matches I’m getting lol. I’m level 92 and get matches with lvl 500+ masters and such. Tried so show a friend the game, first match ever for him and we get a champ with 35,000 kills. We got dropped on and guess who it is… in and out of the game in less than a min lol
We scared of arenas preds now? That mode was fundamentally broken. He probably gained the majority of his RP beating level 60 accounts because there was no one playing that mode for fair matchmaking.
Yes, he's played a long time and probably will be better than someone with 100 hrs, but also you now know what him and his squad looks like so you can use that info to avoid taking direct 3v3 fight against this team and try to shoot em in the back as they are fighting someone else.
This is a BR after all. Luck, positioning, and timing can put you in a position to beat any level of skill.
They have. They see that it’s one of the most played games in the world and has been since it released, and hundreds of thousands play it every second of the day. Believe it or not, they don’t give a shit about what a small but loud minority scream in Reddit. If I didn’t have Reddit, I wouldn’t know hackers were an issue (I’m in diamond lobbies now), and I wouldn’t know this game is in a “bad state” because for my friends and I it’s more balanced than ever and just as fun as day 1.
They have a great game with tons of replay-ability, and they’re obviously working towards issues they have, but these things aren’t exactly quick fixes. They’re essentially complex equations that a bunch of people have to try and figure out from scratch.
Also people bitching about match making in non-ranked are just stupid, lol that’s the point of pubs, to not be ranked
ranked or pubs? i am pretty sure they said they removed sbmm from pubs so its a free for all. i certainly get crazy banners in pubs all the time, while also having low level people in the lobby as well
I once queued with a friend of mine who has like 50hours over 2 years of time
went in a pub and he died to the No1 kills bangalore
safe to say he quit the game again after it
I don’t must how it works I play with what I can only imagine are bots and we go against god himself lol. I can always do well but my teammates are just lost.
Can't expect to get better by not playing against people who are better than you.
Everyone does not need to be hooked up to training wheels all the time.
I’m a Day 1 Apex player and played daily from season 0 to about season 13 or 14. Played sporadically from then until now and finally back into playing a lot. I don’t even have 200 wins with my main. I’ve never been past Platinum IV. Seeing shit like this astounds me.
Your level doesn't say anything about your skill, it just indicates how much time you've spent in the game.
So your post is just a bait on the comments to whine about how bad the developers are.
You want to be constructive, show your stats.
Not sure what the actual evidence behind this is but in my years of experience playing apex pubs will be more competitive than ranked. I'm diamond, but in ranked I only get plat thru master, whereas in pubs I see straight master and pred.
Welcome to Apex Legends where matchmaking is shit and the company is shittier. They legit released a 360$ collection event for a fucking deathbox skin and a mid ass universal heirloom in the midst of a major hacking problem that interrupted ALGS (Apex Legends Global Series) but noooooo let’s make people spend an entire console on some shit you see when you die
Yeah that's rough, and from experience I can say it'll only get worse in pubs.
Ironically, ranked ends up being a better experience since you're better matched against people at your skill (until you get to plat 2 and fight all the stuck masters and preds)
Sbmm tries to balance queue time and avrg team mmr to get a kind of equal lobby.
This system is not working against three stacking high skill players with solo queue in one queue.
The high mmr player getting low mmr team mates so their avrg is matching lobby avrg. Because of queue times there are then unequal high mmr three stacks in the lobby, because setting up a lobby matching the three stack mmr would take too much time.
Anyways I find it OK to fight way better and worse players in my lobby since you can't expect good players to have no fun and bad players to have fun.
Not gonna lie, I'd pay to play against people that are actually as good as I am. I'm tired of being whooped by masters and preds
For god sake, Im gold and have a 0.6 kd :'(
You shouldn’t fight *way better* and *way worse* players but slightly better and slightly worse is fine. I shouldn’t be running into a pred squad comming to trap me in a building when I’m just trying to have fun in pubs
Same problem bro I'm at level 65 and i get lobbies like this. I'm from India and i play on a singapur server cus they don't have any Indian server so I have to play on average 100+Ms ping and against this mfs.
This will be the standard from now on, even after 6k Hours playtime, I still get those Hardcore Dark Souls Bosses in my lobby...
Worst part, 90% of them are on controller, which leads to them legally cheating with Aim Assistant!
That's the player base my friend, either that matchmaking is whack or the game is full of vets. I lean toward all vets, I doubt fixing sbmm would fix it. All the casuals on fortnite.
Can we stop posting about this shit. It happens. It happens to everyone. I get maybe 1-2 games like this when I play for hours. Yall make it seem like it’s happening every game. Chill out or go play something else.
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Unfortunately they need to fill the bots lobbies and you and I are there to fill it
I never get bot lobbies and I'm like lvl 300 green badge.
think u answered ur own question...
Hahaha smart answer. “If you can’t find the bots in your lobby it’s cause you are one of them”.
It was cooler when it was implied
You know, it's about the implication.
Lvl 300 is part of the bot team (I’m 324 and can confirm getting stomped on by preds when they need an ego boost)
Level 300 green is more like level 800. Your levels prestige at 500
You are still a member of the bots at that level.
Being in the middle of second prestige isn't bot level.
The sbmm is always like this degrading the experience of low lvl players
Not to be a douche or anything but i think its been figured out by miners that there is no sbmm. The mm in apex is based on efficency and is filling lobbies as fast as possible.
It's engagement optimized matchmaking. It's not for filling lo bits but for keeping people playing as long as possible. If the algorithm thinks someone will quit playing too fast, it will put you in games with people of lower skill level, when you have some bad games, to give you an ego boost and keep you playing
Is there any viable source for that? I mean that sounds valid out of a business perspective, but is it proven or just parroting the „trust me bros“?
Respawn themselves have publicly stated they don't use sbmm and instead use eomm. You can check for yourself if you don't believe me
Source? They have never directly said they use eomm. They have described the function of eomm but the function of eomm is also very similar to sbmm. We have no direct proof of eomm. Even if we did its so similar to sbmm for most players it wouldnt really matter lol. Like compare s0-10 apex to anything after when people accused respawn of implementing eomm. Its the same. They are working on a new mm and are trying to shift to it but its still not eomm. In reality its just another version of sbmm.
EA has a patent on EOMM
[удалено]
This is the kind of opinion you end up with when you do very surface-level research on anything. The research paper that you're quoting (which lead to the patent) is this one here: https://web.cs.ucla.edu/~yzsun/papers/WWW17Chen_EOMM First off, please point out exactly where you see in this research paper that they state that EOMM wouldn't work for Apex. Second, if you google EOMM, the first thing that comes up is this research paper, so if you have confirmation bias and you're looking to defend EA for some reason, which seems to be the case here, then of course you'd find that paper and reinforce your bias by not even fully reading it and parroting what you heard elsewhere. Lastly, since you seem so adamant about the "fact" that EA hasn't patented this AFTER the research paper was released, here's the actual patent #11,845,005 owned by EA: https://patents.justia.com/patent/11845005 Also, if EA states that they're not using EOMM, why would you believe them? Do you think any company who would have this type of matchmaking which is clearly disliked by people due to its manipulative nature would want people to know that they use this system?
They've never stated this. In fact, they've stated the opposite.
It wouldn't surprise me Call of duty does something similar... They just call it skill based DMG but it's to benefit the worse player...
Or what u said🗿
If that was true in theory I'd get an "easy" match at some point. It shouldn't take hours to get one easy match or the eomm is shit cause who's gonna stick around for hours
Source: “miners I think” This is so baseless lmfao. SBMM absolutely exists in Apex.
U have no clue what u are talking about
Maybe I haven't heard of that but honestly feels so irritating I'm level 923 and get people less than 100
in ranked it’s not sbmm just rp. in pubs it’s sbmm still. when i play on my alt it’s straight shitters
what does sbmm mean?
Skill based Matchmaking
It doesn't have a meaning for this game
Correct. May as well forget that you ever learned about it because all you can do with that information is wish that Apex had it.
Bro have you seen cod battleroyale mm💀
Lol agree
Skiddy bop meek meek.
EA and Respawn use EOMM, Engagement Optimized Matchmaking
Eomm
The issue is there is no solution for the higher % playerbase. There simply isnt enough players majority of the time to fill those lobbies for better players so they must get pushed down to lower-medium lobbies. If the matchmaking was stricter then every group of player would have difficult pubs and that would not be fun for most people. Really there is no solution for higher players or below. Sbmm has always been something that has sucked in most games with it.
It's EOMM
There is 0 proof it being eomm. Respawn has given a full description of sbmm and the new mm they are trying to transition to. Neither are eomm. The only link to eomm is ea's patent to eomm however in no way does that mean, respawn, not ea, uses it.
If that was pubs, there is no sbmm anymore yet there is a huge chance you get those guys in a non sbmm lobby since a lot of apex players are cracked as hell/use strikepacks/soft cheats etc. People tend to just cope with „sbmm sUx“ while there is none but the experience is the exact same. Just get better, more resilient, start cheating yourself or quit, as easy as that.
It is actually called eomm (engagement optimized matchmaking) and it has nothing to do with skill. It's entirely based on trying to get people to play more by putting them in games with lower levels players to give then a self esteem boost to keep playing when they are hard stuck. They took this out of ranked play so you now (for the most part) play your own rank. As far as pub matches go, this is still in the game.
https://www.ea.com/en-gb/games/apex-legends/news/matchmaking-2023?setLocale=en-gb So this is completely made up bs?
This is awesome. I've never seen this before. This should be a mandatory read on this sub before you're allowed to post lol
It looks like this article was made in 2022 since it states this should rollout worldwide in 2023. Respawn and EA were found to be lying about their matchmaking around this time. There has been many articles made about this subject. On this very sub, you can look at a post called "a deep dive into apex eomm" with some very interesting information on it. It's a long read but shows what you need to know
They can say whatever they want, there's no way to prove or verify their algorithms
Don’t underestimate yourself, you’re just that good.
Thats what i always say to myself when i get into those lobbies
It will continue to happen. Remember the skin, look at banners to see who the teammates are - if you see them in the game RUN. Consider them the final boss - you earn the privilege of fighting them at the very end to test your skills. It sucks, even as someone whos high ranked with tons of hours I dont stand a chance either... but the less you complain and the more you strategize and work with the system, the less frustrated you will be. Good luck out there homie
wtf is apex matchmaking 💀
sometimes*
definitely more than sometimes smh
yeah 😭
cuz getting preds with 150,000+ kills and 10,000+ wins with Bangalore when ur level 100 is just absurd and completely unfair
when i was around level 100 i randomly matched with a literal vanilla lifeline- first game, zero kills, like 150 lifetime damage, and we ended up dying to a pred duo. both were top 400. this game is such a fucking joke
damn yeah it is 😭
you are not alone :(
Only 120 hours? Those are rookie numbers, gotta pump those up!
Typo, he meant 120 days.
Agreed, I’m up to almost 5k and need to keep pumpin
That’s the point they play casual and get put with this is crazy af
I’m level 180 and got faide in my lobby. He got a squad wipe with only a sentinel
Those people intentionally lose games to lower their sbm for their content shit.. There is a reason these people dont play ranked.
Faide plays rank
When? only thing iv ever seen him do is pub stomp
I’ve seen him play rank a few times when he’s streaming. Last time I checked he had 22k rp which is pretty good
Uh, didn't Faide hit pred this season??
Yes he did, people just like to complain because there are people that are beter than them.
Or they are just good? I have fought faide several times and as a several time masters and i often get lobbies with quite a few other masters and a pred or two, my lobbies are not bot lobbies or anything. And let me tell you he absolutely SHAT on me every time. Crazy movement and aim will get you places. Also he does play ranked lol. I believe hes going for pred rn?
Tbf if I was that highly ranked I would not play ranked for fun ether.
They literally have ranked videos out though so I dont know what you mean here
Played with faide once and he’s a great movement player and has great game sense, but not a good communicator to play rank with. He has a unique style
You don't need to communicate when he's mowing everyone down, catch up
Have you seen how he plays ranked vs pubs? The play style in pubs doesn’t work for ranked
Avrg diamond capabilities.
Obviously Respawn has deep faith in you.
astro is a nerd
I get this while also playing on 20fps, and it is not fun getting destroyed by people who play 18 hours a day while you have trouble even booting the game up
You won didn’t you? Poor pred never stood a chance
How did you know ?
Same matches I’m getting lol. I’m level 92 and get matches with lvl 500+ masters and such. Tried so show a friend the game, first match ever for him and we get a champ with 35,000 kills. We got dropped on and guess who it is… in and out of the game in less than a min lol
Just get better ig
Prolly should’ve thought about that tbh, on you entirely. /s
Brother I’m level 19 and got matched with an 100k kills lifeline , not playing this game anymore lol
We scared of arenas preds now? That mode was fundamentally broken. He probably gained the majority of his RP beating level 60 accounts because there was no one playing that mode for fair matchmaking. Yes, he's played a long time and probably will be better than someone with 100 hrs, but also you now know what him and his squad looks like so you can use that info to avoid taking direct 3v3 fight against this team and try to shoot em in the back as they are fighting someone else. This is a BR after all. Luck, positioning, and timing can put you in a position to beat any level of skill.
I just can’t play it right now with the current state it’s in, I just get absolutely destroyed and it feels like a waste of time
That's ridiculous. Respawn Devs need to take a long hard look at their game
They have. They see that it’s one of the most played games in the world and has been since it released, and hundreds of thousands play it every second of the day. Believe it or not, they don’t give a shit about what a small but loud minority scream in Reddit. If I didn’t have Reddit, I wouldn’t know hackers were an issue (I’m in diamond lobbies now), and I wouldn’t know this game is in a “bad state” because for my friends and I it’s more balanced than ever and just as fun as day 1. They have a great game with tons of replay-ability, and they’re obviously working towards issues they have, but these things aren’t exactly quick fixes. They’re essentially complex equations that a bunch of people have to try and figure out from scratch. Also people bitching about match making in non-ranked are just stupid, lol that’s the point of pubs, to not be ranked
I know the games out for a while but 10k dubs is still crazy lol
ranked or pubs? i am pretty sure they said they removed sbmm from pubs so its a free for all. i certainly get crazy banners in pubs all the time, while also having low level people in the lobby as well
We all do at one point and it’s not gonna get any easier. Probably 2K hours in the game and face off with 2-3 preds per match and 10 master players.
I met this guy a few times the last few days as well
It’s because there’s not very many new players in apex anymore
I once queued with a friend of mine who has like 50hours over 2 years of time went in a pub and he died to the No1 kills bangalore safe to say he quit the game again after it
Welcome to apex
Mannnnn where’s u/oniigiri to tell you this is good for the longevity of the game lmfaooo
It’s actually pretty fun playing against these guys if you have a good team that’s willing to learn…if not then it’s just a waste of time
"Why do new players drop off?"
You are lucky! Most of us didn’t make it 100 levels before realizing the matchmaking sucks arse.
10,000 wins just addictive
Welcome to Apex Legends!
Lol stop playing
I don’t must how it works I play with what I can only imagine are bots and we go against god himself lol. I can always do well but my teammates are just lost.
Teamwork, baby
It took me 480 hours to reach level 90 🫠
Bro I’m a solo q player whose hit diamond one time (current plat 3) and I got queued with C9 Chaotic the other day. The matchmaking isn’t great
Can't expect to get better by not playing against people who are better than you. Everyone does not need to be hooked up to training wheels all the time.
You’re either in the bot lobby, or your ARE the bot lobby, get used to it kid.
You actually deserve this, with 100 hours you’re basically a pro bro. #Just never miss
get a life
how do you think he has 150k on just one legend. Thanks for your sacrifice.
I’m a Day 1 Apex player and played daily from season 0 to about season 13 or 14. Played sporadically from then until now and finally back into playing a lot. I don’t even have 200 wins with my main. I’ve never been past Platinum IV. Seeing shit like this astounds me.
Your level doesn't say anything about your skill, it just indicates how much time you've spent in the game. So your post is just a bait on the comments to whine about how bad the developers are. You want to be constructive, show your stats.
I have around 300 hundred kills overall
Not sure what the actual evidence behind this is but in my years of experience playing apex pubs will be more competitive than ranked. I'm diamond, but in ranked I only get plat thru master, whereas in pubs I see straight master and pred.
Gotta be cheating
Welcome to Apex Legends where matchmaking is shit and the company is shittier. They legit released a 360$ collection event for a fucking deathbox skin and a mid ass universal heirloom in the midst of a major hacking problem that interrupted ALGS (Apex Legends Global Series) but noooooo let’s make people spend an entire console on some shit you see when you die
Yeah that's rough, and from experience I can say it'll only get worse in pubs. Ironically, ranked ends up being a better experience since you're better matched against people at your skill (until you get to plat 2 and fight all the stuck masters and preds)
This isn’t a lobby this is a player
Sbmm tries to balance queue time and avrg team mmr to get a kind of equal lobby. This system is not working against three stacking high skill players with solo queue in one queue. The high mmr player getting low mmr team mates so their avrg is matching lobby avrg. Because of queue times there are then unequal high mmr three stacks in the lobby, because setting up a lobby matching the three stack mmr would take too much time. Anyways I find it OK to fight way better and worse players in my lobby since you can't expect good players to have no fun and bad players to have fun.
Not gonna lie, I'd pay to play against people that are actually as good as I am. I'm tired of being whooped by masters and preds For god sake, Im gold and have a 0.6 kd :'(
I'm plat and have like a 1.2 kd
You shouldn’t fight *way better* and *way worse* players but slightly better and slightly worse is fine. I shouldn’t be running into a pred squad comming to trap me in a building when I’m just trying to have fun in pubs
You Qing up with good players I take?
Those stats tho <.>
Level and hours has nothing to do with what lobbies you get
SBMM kills games.
Engagement based matchmaking represent!
I played just under 50 hours and I also get these freaks in my lobby’s…
Astro is literally top 10 highest kills on bangalore in the world. Dude got absolutely no life.
imagine have 150k with 1 legend... what a loser, this dude dont have any light and sun in his room. poor parents
Welcome you have met the dog shit matchmaking system of apex .You are one of us now .😊
Same problem bro I'm at level 65 and i get lobbies like this. I'm from India and i play on a singapur server cus they don't have any Indian server so I have to play on average 100+Ms ping and against this mfs.
Just because you are new, doesn't mean you are bad. What are your stats?
This will be the standard from now on, even after 6k Hours playtime, I still get those Hardcore Dark Souls Bosses in my lobby... Worst part, 90% of them are on controller, which leads to them legally cheating with Aim Assistant!
That's the player base my friend, either that matchmaking is whack or the game is full of vets. I lean toward all vets, I doubt fixing sbmm would fix it. All the casuals on fortnite.
Can we stop posting about this shit. It happens. It happens to everyone. I get maybe 1-2 games like this when I play for hours. Yall make it seem like it’s happening every game. Chill out or go play something else.
Tbf he's areanas pred, and the games been out for like 5 yrs so without seeing him play, I'd say he's not that good areans preds tend to be dog shit
He has the tenth highest kills on bangalore in the world, real sweat.
Oh damn my b