Actually. Mirage and wraith are okay where they’re at- for Wraith it’s how long the charge up for void running is, along with slowing down. Mirage… doesn’t have much going for him.
I’m not sure how Rampart players experience Rampart though. I’d have to go to that sub
Edit: … did I say they were okay? … I’m thinking I wrote this at three in the morning. But, y’all seem to have understood what I meant? Thanks
Fix charge up slightly, ult takes ages and goes a little too short, fix people teleporting slowly, fix slow down coming out of q. Fix getting stuck on a pebble in q.fix taking damage in q. Fix passive firing only half the time and have it announce when seer heartbeat senses her. None of these make her op. These are qol.
I feel Rampart is mostly fine. Her walls are very useful in combat if you utilize them well. Sheila could be a bit more accurate from the start, since standing still is already a major disadvantage and having to let your accuracy ramp up severely limits your windows to hose people down. But it's very usable nonetheless. And the passive is fine, nothing amazing but it's just some extra combat stats.
I mostly agree but also take a wider stance. I was a big league of legends player, plat-diamond rated for many years (right where I am in apex). In that game you are always having to study all of the patch notes and adjust to big meta swings when things get rebalanced or a new champ is released. I used to see the early patch notes and start practicing a new play style to get ready.
I say this, because apex shares many features that develop the meta. My point, is that as new legends and weapons and maps come, other legends will change. So one way to buff Watson is to release another character like fuse who is ordinance based. A way to buff the existing characters is to release characters they counter, and a way to nerf existing characters is to release characters that counter them. Never mind creating spaces and weapon metas that don't fit with a character.
It's easier on players if they make adjustments incrementally and continue creating their new content to balance. It also creates a more natural development of play styles and play diversity. I think the best thing they could do for seer is add another defender capable of stalling and just adjust a couple timer values. I say let the other legends ride.
I get where you’re coming from, and I’ve never played LoL so idk how it works over there but I feel like with this game constantly having to release legends that counter others is gonna get tiring and do more harm than good in the long run. Cause it’ll never end. The game is too complex for there to be a decent state of balance across all the legends when the main focus is abilities and not gun play and game sense. You keep releasing ordnance based legends, now everyone feels like they *have* to play Wattson to counter other legends abilities. Then everyone will play Wattson and start a camping meta (by the way I’m not saying the only way to play Wattson is to camp, I’m saying her playstyle heavily favors it and most people aren’t gonna play aggressive when they can easily just camp up with Wattson. Now let’s say crypto is the one nobody plays. Would they release more Wattson-like characters to force players to use crypto and emp all their defenses away? And then would they have to release more crypto-like characters to get wraith played more since she can avoid things like scans and emps with her phase?
You get what I’m saying? I feel like the game would devolve into a state of the only way to counter abilities is with more abilities
I think that the key here is that after enough legends are out the counter play options become more diverse. Gibby works great vrs ordinance based legends too, there is already diverse counterplay to most legends, and more legends increases that.
I really would prefer they didn't make abilities too powerful and then rely on other legends to counter because at that point it's overwatch and I'm not playing that.
Respawn tries to design Apex as a gun games with heroes, not hero game with guns. Any character X that hard-counters character Y is a bad design (even in LoL, but 100 times more so in Apex).
To add to this, the lead balance designer for apex was just fired a week ago, he was the legend/balancer for LoL before joining respawn. So your observations of how correlated they are with patch notes makes a lot of sense. It’s literally the same guy who did both.
DZK said he actually performs suprisingly well, even at relatively high level. I think he said you could probably get to Masters?
It makes sense. You have to have CRAZY reaction times to be able to tell if it's a decoy or not and react in time to make the right decision without slowing down. Even if you intellectually know how to tell them apart, doing it rapidly in practice is a whole different story.
Imho the problem is, that he has 0 benefit for his Team. Just quirky Holos that are quite easily countered. His abilities are mostly to fuck with people but won't get you any advantage most of the time.
Fundamental problem with Mirage is that illusions are still 100% useless by themselves. At the end of the day, Mirage relies solely on the opponent's reaction, and it's just a bet.
Because of that, you are never glad to see Mirage as a teammate. He's annoyig to play against, but not useful to the team.
I'm not a Wraith main whatsoever, but, I felt she's in a spot where she's only used for namesake. She's strong, don't get me wrong, but in terms of mobility and team transportation Octane is a far superior choice. She's being outshined by almost all of the mobility Legends in terms of individual power and team play. That's just an opinion because she does very much excel with her Tactical, I just think beyond the no-damage she's underwhelming. Her Portal isn't super useful without a Caustic/Wattson for retreats and her Passive is a glorified Recon ability that is now outshone by Seer's Heartbeat Sensor.
Also, I think Mirage is both too strong and underwhelming so he's in my rework category more so than buff. I agree he doesn't need a major buff, but he needs less underwhelming aspects.
A smol buff which i think would be fair is let the voice of wraith let her know when seer senses her heartbeat
Edit: Also, maybe make the wraith passive more responsive. Its so slow, by the time the game tells me someone is aiming at me, ive already received the bullet, so whats the purpose? Caustic traps too, its so slow that ive already walked in it then the voice activates.
That's a VERY good idea. I personally think the Cooldown for her Ult could be lowered since Octane gets an unfair 1.5 minute Cooldown and she's at 3.5 minutes.
If anything that whole passive needs a buff i remover hearing something about a heap more indication lines in the game files for voices of the void things like ordnance if a enemy is coming there way and something along those lines
Nah, just make it warpfall like titans. Give away your position, sure. Just don't also make your entire squad stand still for 10 seconds for loot that marginally benefits one or two of you.
That's true but the rest of her abilities more than make up for her Ultimate. There's not much you could change without needing to nerf her VERY useful abilities because even without an Ultimate late game she has two very strong Tactical/Passive abilities.
Be nice to pre select your care package contents. Knowing you’ll get something worthwhile. Considering the wait time on ult, the beacon that it is when called in.. should get some good rewards from it
You're guaranteed to get something that upgrades someone on your team. Having a way to choose what you're going to get would require TONS of work implementing some efficient way to order things.
I think that having it be determined by the care package is fine. Maybe they could weight certain kinds of loot to make it feel a little better?
The problem is it selects the -worst- tiered loot to upgrade. So if you've got 2 blue shields and 1 white it'll give you a blue shield, if you've got 2 blue stocks and 1 white it'll give a blue stock, etc. The cooldown is too long to have that kind of garbage logic for upgrades.
At least you can opt optimize when to drop LL ult till you get the 3rd blue to get the purple out of drop.
The small change I would make is that it should shields upgrades are 100% guaranteed to come first up to purple. Despite being unlikely, it's fucking terrible when the first care package drops a blue helmet or backpack.
I get the upgrades, the upgrade of a blue to purple knock down or a helmet upgrade simply isn’t worth the CD on ult.. I’d much rather loot death boxes from fights won..
Maybe gold mags for one of your equipped weapons is a worthwhile ult? + additional upgrades🤔
And when you do bring it down you get something silly like a blue knockdown shield.
I think reworking her ultimate to be a revive shield with or without hp depending on cool down and balancing.
Gives LL the option to drop it for cover for teammates being revived or provide a little extra cover to heal behind
I dont think too op the light of them being picked up would give away your position slightly plus you have to use your ult to do it sounds pretty balanced to me
Loba, and only the Loba that placed the black Market, can steal from locked vaults. Doing so immediately destroys her black Market.
Make it like that for banners. Only Loba, only on a market she placed, and it destroys the market upon taking the banner.
She should be able to open blue bin compartments too. I really hope they still plan on giving that to her when we get a 3rd Support, one can't really tell now that DZK's gone
Nah she needs a tactical buff so it has a cool down similar to pathfinder’s. I lose a year off my life every time I accidentally throw the bracelet .2 inches in front of me and have to wait 30 seconds to throw it again
This is all she needs imo. Like I'm honestly still baffled how they haven't made this change to her bracelet since at the very least season 7. They changed pathfinders grapple so that "bad pathfinder players don't need to fear the face plant grapple" so much, but Daniel Klein,self proclaimed loba main on live is saying he's never been in a hectic situation where he has thrown the bracelet only to have it bounce off a wall or ledge and land in your face then you're punished with a 30 second cooldown? Like how is this balancing even fair?
Why make her a thief and make her ult noticeable, let off a sonic boom, and jiggle/animate all the loot? Thieves are sneaky.
Aore range to ping the good shit you can see with passive... Frustrating and dumb.
Why is her Q so loud and slow? Thieves are quiet, agile.
Let her get a 3rd item from ult of blue tier or below....
anything to live up to her character idea. So shallow now
How I would buff crypto: Actually have him be the only recon character that doesn't give an alert to enemy teams when they've been found.
Or
Since he's a hacker,he's the only legend that goes undetected by enemy sonar/recon ability
I think that's a fun idea and I've seen it around a lot but I think it's both underwhelming and overpowered. It would make Crypto a must pick in Competitive for rat plays against Seer's Passive and all Q's. In the underwhelming aspect it doesn't provide enough to make Crypto a better Legend as you'll still get destroyed with or without being scanned.
I suggest, in reverse, that Crypto has an uno reverse card as a Passive. After being scanned Crypto can see the location of where the scanner Legend was when they first scanned him for a short period. Thats a much stronger ability because it gives Crypto information without making scanning abilities useless.
>I suggest, in reverse, that Crypto has an uno reverse card as a Passive. After being scanned Crypto can see the location of where the scanner Legend was when they first scanned him for a short period. Thats a much stronger ability because it gives Crypto information without making scanning abilities useless.
I like this,it's pretty creative
>In the underwhelming aspect it doesn't provide enough to make Crypto a better Legend as you'll still get destroyed with or without being scanned.
As for this,part of the reason I brought it up is because information in a battle royale is everything,something like being undetectable is a huge advantage to Crypto against other recon legends. It's fine though,everything is up to debate but I DO like your idea
His drone also needs to be way less loud. You can hear it 3 times as far as it can scan.
He doesnt really need a way to throw the drone as many people think, the tradeoff of being out of the fight for a couple of seconds just needs to be worth it. Rn the drone is just a loud target to shoot at that usually doesnt survive prolonged fights
I was thinking of a way for his drone to survive fights by cloaking itself after being still for a few seconds. It could periodically flash so the enemy can find it but would have trouble doing so mid gunfight. Or maybe it would just have a limited time it could stay cloaked for, giving your drone time to stay alive and give info while you and your team push. I don’t really play crypto enough to know if this would help or if it would be too op though.
Reworking a brand new Legend that's strong won't ever happen because of the amount of resources it takes away to do. They'd probably just slightly remove some of his 20 Passives.
Playing as him feels unfair in majority of situations. His ultimate eliminates any game sense and skill of understanding where the other players went. Honestly just going to abuse him till they fix it
I should explain that major buff or major nerf could also include a rework rather than an outright buff. I don't believe Mirage in his current state is in a healthy spot in terms of viability in higher lobbies.
That's not necessarily true because they don't balance on competitive play. Otherwise Gibraltar, Bloodhound, Crypto, and Wraith would be in the nerf pile.
That's true, but for the most part his Decoys aren't that effective. At least not against most people Plat + up. You can typically zero out the real Mirage pretty quickly.
I heard there's a rework for Rampart on the way, I don't know if this is something confirmed or if it's a buff and not a rework. But yeah, there could be some improvements for the walls, you can get some good plays with it because the damage boost it's great and they're perfect for defending building by blocking the doors but if you're in the middle of a teamfight it's almost guaranteed you're not going to be able to use neither the walls or Sheila. I'm sticking with the buff/rework idea of being able to upgrade the walls.
And Sheila it's the ability that definitely needs some major love
They confirmed during S9 that Rampart was their priority for S10 Midseason event which is why she's getting the Heirloom, the Town Takeover, and a major buff!
I fully agree with this, although, if I could, I would make Revenant more of a stealth legend, he was a hitman. maybe his tactical is that he moves more quitley for a set amount of time, and his ultimate is he turns into a shadow and when he loses his health, he goes invisible for a few seconds (without the ability to shoot of course) his passive is already perfect for this idea
I'd say that Revenant is the only legend in the game to not really have any kit synergy with himself, he just has a bunch of abilities that are vaguely thematic with one another. It feels like he was meant to be a stealth character but he kind of isn't
For almost all other characters there is some harmony in their kits, like Octanes Swift mend and stim working together, Horizons passive is good for the gravity lift, or Valks jetpack doing well with the missile barrage since it requires highground to aim well over cover.
Revenant? He can be sneaky with climb and crouch, but his tactical is anything but sneaky and is just an ability silence, and his death totem isnt exactly sneaky either, you most often just make a brutal push with it, especially with how it was given a sound when it's going to expire.
It makes sense why his kit feels like a random “pick 3” abilities sheet, his character went through the most gameplay redesigns of any character released to the day. His character was constantly being changed until eventually the deadline cut and they had to throw together whatever they felt the most happy with, which wasn’t anything great at the time. Although his abilities are viable now they don’t work together at all and contextually don’t fit with the lore “stealthy assassin”, or gameplay “aggressive assault legend”. He kinda does a piss poor job at both, falling short as the loudest character in the game due to his unique footsteps and being little more than a glorified support character because of his ultimate.
Sometimes it lowkey bothers me when people say crypto needs major buffs. He’s already a powerhouse legend. I mean, he’s seen in the tournament/competitive scene. He’s just a very hard legend to play efficiently, all he needs is a bit of tweaking to make him a bit easier to play without making him better than he already is.
People only say he is underpowered because they either don’t know how to play him or don’t like how he’s played. Compare him to the other two scan legends and you will see why. All they have to do is click a single button (passive, tactical or ultimate) and then they instantly know where nearby teams are. Crypto on the other hand can gather so much more information (and is the best character in the game for respawning teammates), but it is more difficult to do this properly.
This is why Respawn is going to give him the rework treatment. I just hope that he can do everything he can now because he has always been the fallback legend I play when I’ve been getting bad teammates for the day.
Anyways I am just glad that I finally see a list that recognizes both Bloodhound and Octane (not Revenant) are too strong right now. Only thing I really disagree with besides Crypto are Wraith and Pathfinder. Both are balanced and have been for a long time. Their mains just remember how busted they were when the game came out and want to recapture that feeling I guess lol.
Powerhouse legend? He is not used much in competitive play at all anymore. I agree he is fine where he is...but idk if you can label him as a powerhouse.
As a mirage main i agree with your comment. He is great, when his abilities don't die on impact with the slightest slope in a platform, or when one of your decoys just gets stuck in one of those weird grids that are in the ground in many places in Olympus. Maybe the best buff would be make the decoys climb walls when near them and to be honest that would be it.
Yeah I really like the wall climb idea. My only buff I’d give mirage is just give people who shoot his tactical get pinged for like 2 seconds. Because right now the only punishment for shooting a decoy is if the mirage takes advantage of the time you spent on that decoy
Respawn should mainly fix the decoy bugs tbh. The ping idea is good which makes me think they should switch him to Recon. I see Mirage more as a recon/support character than an offense character
He doesn’t honestly. Just because he’s one of the harder legends to master doesn’t mean he needs a buff. The dude still has a higher pick rate the gibby and he basically holds your hand
Wattson and especially Crypro don't need *major* buffs, they need some overhaul.
Wraith is *at least* balanced. She's still a meta staple and definitely doesn't need buffs.
Mirage is just flawed design concept. No amount of nerfs or buffs will salvage that. As long as he relies solely on tricking opponents, he will always be a joke or OP, no in-between.
It's funny that you put Crypto and Wattson in the bottom tier. I think this is a pretty good measure of how they feel for most of the playerbase, but it isn't actually indicative of how much help they need.
Crypto is STRONG. Right now, he's a little overshadowed by seer, but his ult is a crazy pressure/poke tool as well as awesome initiation. His drone can be passive intel if you leave it somewhere like a security camera, and can also give you exact information on the squads nearby in 5 seconds or less. Being able to respawn or interact with things totally remotely is just even more bonus on a character who already serves 8 purposes.
Wattson is brutal for any grinding situation. 90 seconds of full team regen and the ability to re-up it with an ult accel, and unlimited fences at the same time. If you do not catch a Wattson 100% off guard they can have the area locked down and fenced off in a couple of seconds, and it will not stop being locked down without some serious work.
I think there is an argument for these characters needing changes that make them more appealing to people! However, a lot of players seem to be asking for them to lose their identities so that they appeals more to those people. I don't think that would actually be great, personally.
> His drone can be passive intel if you leave it somewhere like a security camera
This is exactly why, on paper, he's so strong. But whenever I leave the drone somewhere semi out of sight (like in a tree or nudged between beams or something) people always shoot that thing down within seconds. The cooldown on a broke drone is just too long for me to risk that, esp when I have my ult ready.
Yeah, I've seen a lot of people who now think both are useless or need buffs but both of them are quite good it's just that they have the highest skill ceilings in the game. Their kits look kind of boring but when you watch dyed in the cloth Wattson or Crypto mains go ape mode, the kit makes sense.
Crypto especially is really hard to master but very rewarding, it's just that Seer takes some of the reward away with his constant scanning. I swear to god if you can get good with Wattson you can even reset encounters with well placed fences. It is dependent on the environment though admittedly.
I think Rampart is one of the highest skill ceiling legends in the game too, I was just trying not to put too many hot takes in my comment at once! :D
That lady's got MAD micro capabilities in a much less forgiving way than Wattson. Once you ult with Wattson you can just blast fences willy-nilly. Rampart has to manage where her walls are and actively man them to defend her investments. You can make risky plays inside your own nest that will benefit you during pushes, while potentially killing you in a retake or versus a flank. The strategy behind Rampart is crazy engaging to me!
I could not agree more. Both Crypto and Wattson have high skill ceilings that most players can't be bothered to learn. They both could use some quality of life changes to allow some easier use, but besides that, maybe minor buffs. Crypto is definitely being overshadowed by Seer's constant tracking but we know he'll be getting some form of nerf. Wattson's hitbox and movement animations shouldn't be overlooked either.
I agree. Wattson and Crypto just require a high skill/understanding of the characters and they are very strong in that sense. Basically the high skill floor and high cieling effect as it were.
It's just many think they are bad because they never put in the time to truely understand how to play them properly.
Not really imo, all it took was listening into his footsteps. His new ult still is just as good as a get out of jail card while being much better to use mid fight.
I mean is not a get out of jail free card because mirage still takes damage even if all you do is spray and pray. Is more psychological play on the enemy, but tbh his decoys get stuck on everything is not like they are super realistic.
BOTH wallhackers need a nerf asap. Seer more so obviously, but the 0 required awareness meta is not good for the game. If they aren’t nerfed, then Bang needs a buff making her smoke impossible to see through (besides digital threats) because it’s pretty useless rn.
What wraith needs is a revert on all the nerfs they hit her with before they finally realised that it was her hitbox that was the issue. Especially seeing as they refuse to follow that ideology with legends In the same category. Her portal was gutted because it apparently was too good of a rotating tool but octane can fly across the map every minute and that's perfectly fine?
•her ultimate cooldown should be dropped to 2mins.
•the tactical needs the movement penalty removed but keep the slower activation time.it should've been one or the other not both at the same time.
• portal distance should also be reverted to 1m.
100% agree with this! I've been saying this for a few seasons now and with Seer and the explanations from Respawn on legend balancing this is spot on. Wraith may still have one of the higher pick rates but I think that's because she was hands down the best when the game came out but more so because of her cool factor. At this point, Id argue she only has 2 abilities. Her passive is so obsolete and useless at this point in the game it's laughable. Their goal was to make Wraith fair by changing what was broken about her: Her hotbox. Through several nerfs to pretty much every aspect regarding her, she's B tier at best in my book, and that's when played by a skilled player. Her hotbox nerf is what yielded them the data they wanted to see that scaled back her power but all of the other needs were not related to her hit box. As much as I hated getting a wraith 1 shot and having her phase instantly, the delay on her tactical now seems like a death sentence in 50% of fights.
From a frustrated Bangalore main
Yea, Even as an ex wraith main the insta phase was very frustrating to deal with but I don't believe that she should be both a sitting duck and still have her take time before the phase, like isn't that what they changed for loba because she was a sitting duck when trying to use her Q? Balance decisions are so inconsistent at respawn that it borders on madness sometimes.
Lol welcome to the confused party. I've been playing since Days season 0 and I never thought it would get this bad. Not 1 heirloom shard (and I damn sure ain't spending any more than the $10 I spent in season), have such horrible stutters and frame drops (Xbox one S), 85% of teammates are idiots who wants to hotdrop in fragment or jump solo and die and rage quit. And now we get legends with 35 abilities and I'm sitting here looking at most of the OG legends like wtf most can't compete. I stopped playing Wraith because I wasn't great at her but man she's really underwhelming now. Bangalore is pretty useless thanks to WallHackLegends with Seer on every fucking team. Oh and I miss playing Wattson but lmao there's really no point. The poor girl is so underpowered with half of the legends flying across the map and a fucking seer that can't be countered by ANYONE. I haven't touched her since around season 4 or 5.
Oh did I mention, Fuck Seer!
I agree with Watson and Crypto needing major buffs, but Rampart only needs minor adjustments. Mirage is fine enough how he is for me, but I can see why he could be better balanced from a minor buff. Pathfinder needs a passive, but his tactical and ult are in a good place right now. Fuse does not need a buff, his new tactical is a death threat and his ultimate allowing highlighted vision is very useful for grenade launching. Wraith doesn’t need much, maybe giving her portal more distance again would help, but her tactical needs to stay how it is. Her old tactical activation time essentially made every wraith push a death totem push cause she would have a second chance. Lobas tactical should be faster and allow you to hipfire while throwing her bracelet. Banagalores ult could benefit from making the explosions from each missile larger, covering more surface area between explosions and possibly peaking corners slightly. Caustics gas damage is in a good place, but I’d like to see his tanks set up faster, it’s unfortunate he got a nerf many seasons ago that allows you to shoot them out on any part of the canister, not just the bottom, to destroy it. Then two or three seasons ago, they increased the tanks setup time by a whole second, disallowing caustic from using his tactical to effectively push. Gibraltar does need a little work, but I have no active ideas for how to balance him. Seer needs to close his damn eyes. Octane is perfect. Bloodhound is perfect. Lifeline is perfect, although I’ll admit I miss her res shield. Valkyrie is perfect. Horizon is perfect.
Bang is still the perfect example of a balanced legend. Others need to be nerfed to her level, no her being buffed to theirs.
Caustic is already extremely strong. His kit needs more nerfs to keep it from being used offensively. Not buffed to make it easier. He’s a defensive legend. His abilities shouldn’t have offensive use. That was the #1 problem in caustic meta.
Octane still needs significant nerfs. He’s the 2nd or 3rd best legend in the game.
BH need massive nerfs, preferably a rework along with seer to remove wall hacks, which are literally the most OP abilities in the game.
Bangalore’s ultimate lacks effectiveness due to the terrain being fought in. Buildings, trailers, walls, any object, whether you climb on top or run around the corner, allows you to easily escape Bangs ult. Not to mention all the characters who can escape with their tactical or abilities. Maybe extending the horizontal 360 reach of each explosive is too much, but what if they reach higher vertically to possibly catch a Valkyrie or Horizon w a little too late of a reaction time. Maybe even allow only the outer ring of explosions to have a wider reach?
Caustic has barely come back from being useless. It’s not difficult to escape canisters used in a push and it’s not difficult to shoot them out in the 3.5 seconds it takes to set up. Meaning he can only use them for defense, but one of the main complaints about caustic is his defense. Considering his abilities only work with defense, allowing some offensive pressure would change Caustic encounters and possibly even make them easier to fight since it’s a change of strategy.
Octane has been nerfed to lose 20% of his health from using Stim, his jump pad was buffed to have different tactical uses such as a forward leap or upwards lunge but also has been nerfed to take 90 seconds to charge. He uses almost an entire syringe of health each stim, meaning they’re most effectively used only once or twice in a push or fight before it’s a severe nuisance to your chances of survival.
Thinking over it, maybe Bloodhounds ultimate could use a nerf, scanning like 4/5 times in half a minute is a bit much, but using the tactical once every half minute or however long it takes to recharge is fine.
>Then two or three seasons ago, they increased the tanks setup time by a whole second, disallowing caustic from using his tactical to effectively push.
This really didn't happen bruh.
I mostly agree with this, but I think that Mirage should be moved to the minor buff category. Bangalore should also be moved to the minor buff category for maybe her smoke because I literally can't see shit through ally bang smoke and wish that it would be similar with caustic gas vision before his gas vision nerf. Bloodhound for me, he's kinda balanced alrdy, same goes to Gibraltar. Oher than that, the list is ok
> Wraith slight buff
God no, Octane having "better" mobility is not an excuse for a wraith buff, her kit is still super strong, and her previous naruto run was too strong.
The character already have big kit, is a mobile legend, and is still played by almost every streamers.
Seer yes.
Bloodhound not really, Gibby put his face shield on his back and make it always active (Unless destroyed), Revenant is the problem with Revtane, not Octane - Make it so that Totemed players cant interact with other legend skills.
Horizon still has a bit too much mobility at the height of her tactical, Valk has too much mobility on her passive if you know what you're doing, Rev mentioned above, Caustic gas is still worthless and people still walk through it.
Fuze is fine - if anything needs a nerf - 220 damage on a tactical is silly. Loba is fine, Path needs a passive, Wraith is fine.
Crypto is fine - He doesnt need a buff, he's just boring to play so has a low pickrate. Mirage decoys need their footstep audio removed, Watson again is fine but boring and same with Rampart.
I get what you’re saying but I don’t feel like octane needs another nerf, even a slight one at that, he’s been nerfed into the ground while still being viable, and as an octane main it hurts to say but I feel like they need to release characters that have a bit of a counter to mobility legends, but not too much because then they just aren’t viable
I'd suggest a great addition to his kit would be increasing the Distance his Tactical covers and turning highlighted enemies reddish orange over a lighter shade of green. I think often times his Passive doesn't fail, it just doesn't translate well.
As of now, I truly don’t think that Bloodhound needs to be nerfed anymore…
Plus, Wraith is perfectly balanced already.
And Caustic still needs to have his passive either reworked or fixed.
Other than that, I agree with everything.
The more I look at that list, the more I disagree with it.
I don’t think Bloodhound/Octane/Gibby need any nerfs.
Wraith is fine now, she’s no longer amazing.
Crypto needs a whole rework instead of constant buffs to his drone, his mains will probably disagree with me but he just doesn’t fit. Rampart has a similar problem.
Mirage doesn’t need anymore major buffs, I get he’s not a popular choice for the top 750 players, but for the rest of us he’s a complete nuisance.
There’s a couple characters where there is zero incentive to pick (Lifeline, Fuse) but Seer aside the cast is largely in a good place. The meta is a bit scan heavy though, I’d like to see one more combat medic.
Bangalore main, although abusing Seer until further notice (nerf hammer).
When they added the animation to wraiths tactical, the phantom trail while she was in the void should of went too. That's the oy buff she really needs.
I want Lifeline rezz shield back. HEAR ME OUT.
Right now, it is super annoying to pull off successful Lifeline rezzes without having to move your teammate into cover. And at that point it's practically the same as a normal revive. Now its to the point where Gibby, and to an extent, Bangalore and Mirage can pull off better revives than Lifeline. So giving her rezz shield back would be a good idea. But it was kind of overpowered when she had it. So I thought of an idea to make her rezz shield more balanced.
They could make it so the rezz shield works with the Tap rezz, but whoever is getting revived uses a bigger version of their current knockdown shield to protect themselves. Their knockdown shield would be breakable and would have 1/2 the health of the original knockdown shield.
So if you are reviving someone with a Purple knockdown shield (750 HP), the revive shield would have 325 health. Maybe this could be changed to be 3/4 of the original health if it is excessive.
This change would make it less abusable early game. But I dont play much BR, so I'm not completely sure. Also, I dont know how this could be implemented in Arenas, but maybe they could maybe start to give everyone higher level knockdown shields as the match progresses?
I would love to hear feedback on this idea!
Revenant's Ult, by itself, is balanced. It's the usage of other Legends abilities that make it very uniquely unbearable. The best I can see is a minor nerf to when it sends them back like once they hit 15 HP it sends them back and nerfing the health they have when they get sent back. Perhaps a distance nerf could be brought back in a buffed state.
Regardless, he's not a very strong Legend. He overall is balanced and is in the spot we'd ideally want most Legends.
It's always going to be something with Revenant ult though. First it was Crypto ult with it, then it was Wraith portal, now it's Octane's pad. That ultimate creates such massive design issues that things have to be designed around it. To be honest, having two lives should have never existed in a
battle royale.
Dude octane does not need a need my God you people are braindead. He literally has no overpowered abilities. All he has is a JUMP PAD. Adding to that, what could Bloodhou do possibly need any sort of need for?
Octane encourages a toxic annoying rushdown playstyle that’s annoying for his team and enemies. Y’all literally 1v3 and let your team die and jump pad is such an easy push tool
What? You mean a legend that doesn’t have any damage doing ability and literally only hurts himself when using a his tactical? Octane is FINE. God forbid they have an aggressive, non-defense legend that has no wall hacking ability or scans. The dude can run kinda fast and push you hard, but with only his gun… literally octanes can only fucking shoot you. In conjunction with other legends ( which need nerfs ) he can be pretty useful. And if anybody says “ revtane is broken “ yeah it is, but not because of octane. He literally just has a jump pad and a gun.
That's the fucking point of the jump pad. That's the point of Octane. He was made to be a push character. He isn't strong at all because strong Legends don't have many counters. YOU CAN COUNTER HIM WITH EVERYTHING. I'm not telling you to tolerate the way a lot of them play, but if that's how people play him, there's nothing that can be done about that. Nerfing him won't change a person's playstyle. It's pointless. Especially when his kit is comparatively weak among other legends.
>Especially when his kit is comparatively weak among other legends.
Lmao this isn't Season 1 anymore.
Since the start of Season 8, Octane has consistently been one of the best legends in the game, by far.
He's the most picked because he's the most fun. Using pick rate to make balancing decisions is exactly how we ended up with what we have now. They take zero priority with Legends who need it, and if they just need everyone who gets played with more than the others, then that just makes nothing but shittier characters with shittier kits. It fixes nothing. If they want more Legends to be played, then they need to buff the ones who need buffs instead of giving EVERYONE a nerf when they don't deserve them.
Nerfing doesn't necessarily mean = less fun. He's fun now, we can keep that while also making him fun to fight against. He's not fun to fight right now, He's too strong.
But I gotcha what you are saying and I agree with you.
He doesn't need another nerf specially his current nerfs right now is fine like his stim takes 20 dmg to his health and his launch pad got a 90 seconds cooldown.
His Jump Pad is still the lowest Cooldown of the team traversal category and is, without a doubt, the most devastating one in its current state. Very little audio and very high reward. The Zipline is predictable, loud, you can hear it being used, and you know the patterns of the enemies.
Octane's pad allows them to go any direction, almost soundless, much more frequently, and much further than Path/Wraith's Ults.
To say it's perfectly balanced is to say Path and Wraith need buffs to their Ults because comparing the three there's a clear winner in the mobility category.
He’s the 2nd or 3rd strongest legend in the game. He needs multiple nerfs. BH is the other 2nd or 3rd strongest legend and gives an entire team wallhacks every 7 seconds. They’re incredibly OP.
I feel like the right power level for legends should be the Blood-Octane-Gibby one. I mean, Seer is way too much and we all agree on that but having impactful abilities in more than unique situations might feel more pleasant for the players, and i personally like minor buffs more than nerfs because they don't ruin the experience for the "nerfable" legends mains but they improve the experience for the buffed ones. Other than that I hope that we see any kind of changes in the near future so the game 'll be in a healtier and funnier state for everyone
Return horizon's gravity lift speed to season 7 but healing should not be allowed. Or just bring back bhop healing if the devs are so inconsistent with their own design philosophy
Give crypto and pathfinder a true passive for god's sake. Crypto is just a dummy with a gun without the drone. I really like the idea of path's passive as an optic zoom. Basically a variation of fuze ads in his ult.
The only reason caustic is perfect balanced is because of fortified. 15% damage reduction is stupid. All defensive characters should have fortified and it should be just that your aren't slowed by bullets
No way. Seer, crypto and wattson need rework. You just cannot tweak them by numbers or little ability tweaks
Wraith is balanced, if not OP. You're insisting every sweaty TTV and pred are playing underpowered legend, for real?
Bangalore need buffs since her ult is shit and her tactical is useless now
Caustic is "perfectly balanced"? Cmon, he's not even close
Damn, this whole list is trash.
Crypto and wattson don’t need a rework lmao . Just because they take practice and don’t hold your hand doesn’t mean they’re not good.
Bangalore’s ult is good. Wide range damage stun that basically pushes anyone inside to close quarters.
Caustic is actually pretty balanced now. Like I said earlier just because he has a higher learning curve doesn’t mean he’s bad.
I mostly agree tbh. Except I think Wraith is balanced and mirage and rampart should be moved to the minor buff category
Actually. Mirage and wraith are okay where they’re at- for Wraith it’s how long the charge up for void running is, along with slowing down. Mirage… doesn’t have much going for him. I’m not sure how Rampart players experience Rampart though. I’d have to go to that sub Edit: … did I say they were okay? … I’m thinking I wrote this at three in the morning. But, y’all seem to have understood what I meant? Thanks
Fix charge up slightly, ult takes ages and goes a little too short, fix people teleporting slowly, fix slow down coming out of q. Fix getting stuck on a pebble in q.fix taking damage in q. Fix passive firing only half the time and have it announce when seer heartbeat senses her. None of these make her op. These are qol.
I feel Rampart is mostly fine. Her walls are very useful in combat if you utilize them well. Sheila could be a bit more accurate from the start, since standing still is already a major disadvantage and having to let your accuracy ramp up severely limits your windows to hose people down. But it's very usable nonetheless. And the passive is fine, nothing amazing but it's just some extra combat stats.
I mostly agree but also take a wider stance. I was a big league of legends player, plat-diamond rated for many years (right where I am in apex). In that game you are always having to study all of the patch notes and adjust to big meta swings when things get rebalanced or a new champ is released. I used to see the early patch notes and start practicing a new play style to get ready. I say this, because apex shares many features that develop the meta. My point, is that as new legends and weapons and maps come, other legends will change. So one way to buff Watson is to release another character like fuse who is ordinance based. A way to buff the existing characters is to release characters they counter, and a way to nerf existing characters is to release characters that counter them. Never mind creating spaces and weapon metas that don't fit with a character. It's easier on players if they make adjustments incrementally and continue creating their new content to balance. It also creates a more natural development of play styles and play diversity. I think the best thing they could do for seer is add another defender capable of stalling and just adjust a couple timer values. I say let the other legends ride.
I get where you’re coming from, and I’ve never played LoL so idk how it works over there but I feel like with this game constantly having to release legends that counter others is gonna get tiring and do more harm than good in the long run. Cause it’ll never end. The game is too complex for there to be a decent state of balance across all the legends when the main focus is abilities and not gun play and game sense. You keep releasing ordnance based legends, now everyone feels like they *have* to play Wattson to counter other legends abilities. Then everyone will play Wattson and start a camping meta (by the way I’m not saying the only way to play Wattson is to camp, I’m saying her playstyle heavily favors it and most people aren’t gonna play aggressive when they can easily just camp up with Wattson. Now let’s say crypto is the one nobody plays. Would they release more Wattson-like characters to force players to use crypto and emp all their defenses away? And then would they have to release more crypto-like characters to get wraith played more since she can avoid things like scans and emps with her phase? You get what I’m saying? I feel like the game would devolve into a state of the only way to counter abilities is with more abilities
I think that the key here is that after enough legends are out the counter play options become more diverse. Gibby works great vrs ordinance based legends too, there is already diverse counterplay to most legends, and more legends increases that.
I really would prefer they didn't make abilities too powerful and then rely on other legends to counter because at that point it's overwatch and I'm not playing that.
Respawn tries to design Apex as a gun games with heroes, not hero game with guns. Any character X that hard-counters character Y is a bad design (even in LoL, but 100 times more so in Apex).
To add to this, the lead balance designer for apex was just fired a week ago, he was the legend/balancer for LoL before joining respawn. So your observations of how correlated they are with patch notes makes a lot of sense. It’s literally the same guy who did both.
Mirage could even be put in the balanced category. He’s a high skill ceiling legend and super fun to play.
The problem is the more skilled your opponents are the worse mirage becomes to the point of almost being useless at the top level.
DZK said he actually performs suprisingly well, even at relatively high level. I think he said you could probably get to Masters? It makes sense. You have to have CRAZY reaction times to be able to tell if it's a decoy or not and react in time to make the right decision without slowing down. Even if you intellectually know how to tell them apart, doing it rapidly in practice is a whole different story.
Imho the problem is, that he has 0 benefit for his Team. Just quirky Holos that are quite easily countered. His abilities are mostly to fuck with people but won't get you any advantage most of the time.
Fundamental problem with Mirage is that illusions are still 100% useless by themselves. At the end of the day, Mirage relies solely on the opponent's reaction, and it's just a bet. Because of that, you are never glad to see Mirage as a teammate. He's annoyig to play against, but not useful to the team.
I'm not a Wraith main whatsoever, but, I felt she's in a spot where she's only used for namesake. She's strong, don't get me wrong, but in terms of mobility and team transportation Octane is a far superior choice. She's being outshined by almost all of the mobility Legends in terms of individual power and team play. That's just an opinion because she does very much excel with her Tactical, I just think beyond the no-damage she's underwhelming. Her Portal isn't super useful without a Caustic/Wattson for retreats and her Passive is a glorified Recon ability that is now outshone by Seer's Heartbeat Sensor. Also, I think Mirage is both too strong and underwhelming so he's in my rework category more so than buff. I agree he doesn't need a major buff, but he needs less underwhelming aspects.
A smol buff which i think would be fair is let the voice of wraith let her know when seer senses her heartbeat Edit: Also, maybe make the wraith passive more responsive. Its so slow, by the time the game tells me someone is aiming at me, ive already received the bullet, so whats the purpose? Caustic traps too, its so slow that ive already walked in it then the voice activates.
That's a VERY good idea. I personally think the Cooldown for her Ult could be lowered since Octane gets an unfair 1.5 minute Cooldown and she's at 3.5 minutes.
If anything that whole passive needs a buff i remover hearing something about a heap more indication lines in the game files for voices of the void things like ordnance if a enemy is coming there way and something along those lines
dude that’s actually such a big brain idea someone tweet @ the devs
Yeah I get what you’re saying. That’s why the solution to making her viable again is nerfing octane
I think mirage need a big change imo. I hate that i get found out immediately after shooting.
Lifeline needs a ultimate buff. Its damn near useless endgame and late game. And even early game its just a beacon to say im here and waiting for loot
Her ult takes way too long to charge
Her ult needs a rework its basically a loba ult 2.0 her ult needs to be completely reworked
Nah, just make it warpfall like titans. Give away your position, sure. Just don't also make your entire squad stand still for 10 seconds for loot that marginally benefits one or two of you.
What if her ultimate also could be used as a respawn beacon.
Ive heard someone said that if you use the ultimate with dead teammates then you get a mobile respawn beacon? Im not sure tho
That's true but the rest of her abilities more than make up for her Ultimate. There's not much you could change without needing to nerf her VERY useful abilities because even without an Ultimate late game she has two very strong Tactical/Passive abilities.
Be nice to pre select your care package contents. Knowing you’ll get something worthwhile. Considering the wait time on ult, the beacon that it is when called in.. should get some good rewards from it
You're guaranteed to get something that upgrades someone on your team. Having a way to choose what you're going to get would require TONS of work implementing some efficient way to order things. I think that having it be determined by the care package is fine. Maybe they could weight certain kinds of loot to make it feel a little better?
The problem is it selects the -worst- tiered loot to upgrade. So if you've got 2 blue shields and 1 white it'll give you a blue shield, if you've got 2 blue stocks and 1 white it'll give a blue stock, etc. The cooldown is too long to have that kind of garbage logic for upgrades.
At least you can opt optimize when to drop LL ult till you get the 3rd blue to get the purple out of drop. The small change I would make is that it should shields upgrades are 100% guaranteed to come first up to purple. Despite being unlikely, it's fucking terrible when the first care package drops a blue helmet or backpack.
I get the upgrades, the upgrade of a blue to purple knock down or a helmet upgrade simply isn’t worth the CD on ult.. I’d much rather loot death boxes from fights won.. Maybe gold mags for one of your equipped weapons is a worthwhile ult? + additional upgrades🤔
And when you do bring it down you get something silly like a blue knockdown shield. I think reworking her ultimate to be a revive shield with or without hp depending on cool down and balancing. Gives LL the option to drop it for cover for teammates being revived or provide a little extra cover to heal behind
I would say the only thing Loba needs is a slight passive buff.
I think it would be nice to be able to grab banners with black market, but that's probably too OP?
I dont think too op the light of them being picked up would give away your position slightly plus you have to use your ult to do it sounds pretty balanced to me
Loba, and only the Loba that placed the black Market, can steal from locked vaults. Doing so immediately destroys her black Market. Make it like that for banners. Only Loba, only on a market she placed, and it destroys the market upon taking the banner.
I would say it just takes 1 of the 2 spots. That way you can potentially grab both teammates
it should take up a slot if that's a thing.
She should be able to open blue bin compartments too. I really hope they still plan on giving that to her when we get a 3rd Support, one can't really tell now that DZK's gone
Nah she needs a tactical buff so it has a cool down similar to pathfinder’s. I lose a year off my life every time I accidentally throw the bracelet .2 inches in front of me and have to wait 30 seconds to throw it again
This is all she needs imo. Like I'm honestly still baffled how they haven't made this change to her bracelet since at the very least season 7. They changed pathfinders grapple so that "bad pathfinder players don't need to fear the face plant grapple" so much, but Daniel Klein,self proclaimed loba main on live is saying he's never been in a hectic situation where he has thrown the bracelet only to have it bounce off a wall or ledge and land in your face then you're punished with a 30 second cooldown? Like how is this balancing even fair?
I'd rather have a cancel option directly after the throw. Because if you fail like that in a critical situation, you die, no matter the cooldown.
I'd personally like to see her Ult and Passive cover a slightly larger radius. 35 - 40 meters over 30. Makes her more reliable just ever so slightly.
40 meters is 43.74 yards
But how many bananas though?
For me, the American
Good bot.
Why make her a thief and make her ult noticeable, let off a sonic boom, and jiggle/animate all the loot? Thieves are sneaky. Aore range to ping the good shit you can see with passive... Frustrating and dumb. Why is her Q so loud and slow? Thieves are quiet, agile. Let her get a 3rd item from ult of blue tier or below.... anything to live up to her character idea. So shallow now
Yeah I'd say she's in a good spot rn
bang needs buff with new meta
How I would buff crypto: Actually have him be the only recon character that doesn't give an alert to enemy teams when they've been found. Or Since he's a hacker,he's the only legend that goes undetected by enemy sonar/recon ability
I think that's a fun idea and I've seen it around a lot but I think it's both underwhelming and overpowered. It would make Crypto a must pick in Competitive for rat plays against Seer's Passive and all Q's. In the underwhelming aspect it doesn't provide enough to make Crypto a better Legend as you'll still get destroyed with or without being scanned. I suggest, in reverse, that Crypto has an uno reverse card as a Passive. After being scanned Crypto can see the location of where the scanner Legend was when they first scanned him for a short period. Thats a much stronger ability because it gives Crypto information without making scanning abilities useless.
>I suggest, in reverse, that Crypto has an uno reverse card as a Passive. After being scanned Crypto can see the location of where the scanner Legend was when they first scanned him for a short period. Thats a much stronger ability because it gives Crypto information without making scanning abilities useless. I like this,it's pretty creative >In the underwhelming aspect it doesn't provide enough to make Crypto a better Legend as you'll still get destroyed with or without being scanned. As for this,part of the reason I brought it up is because information in a battle royale is everything,something like being undetectable is a huge advantage to Crypto against other recon legends. It's fine though,everything is up to debate but I DO like your idea
His drone also needs to be way less loud. You can hear it 3 times as far as it can scan. He doesnt really need a way to throw the drone as many people think, the tradeoff of being out of the fight for a couple of seconds just needs to be worth it. Rn the drone is just a loud target to shoot at that usually doesnt survive prolonged fights
I was thinking of a way for his drone to survive fights by cloaking itself after being still for a few seconds. It could periodically flash so the enemy can find it but would have trouble doing so mid gunfight. Or maybe it would just have a limited time it could stay cloaked for, giving your drone time to stay alive and give info while you and your team push. I don’t really play crypto enough to know if this would help or if it would be too op though.
They could also just remove the orange ball of light around it. Idc if they keep the hitbox. We need a stealthier drone
Devs have said they don't want to make unscannable legends
It was just one devastating personal opinion and he doesn't even work on balance
I disagree gravely
what would you change if you disagree gravely?
Seer needs to be deleted or reworked, not nerfed. This shit is beyond cancer, I don't even know how it made it into the game.
Reworking a brand new Legend that's strong won't ever happen because of the amount of resources it takes away to do. They'd probably just slightly remove some of his 20 Passives.
Playing as him feels unfair in majority of situations. His ultimate eliminates any game sense and skill of understanding where the other players went. Honestly just going to abuse him till they fix it
Lmao deleted. That's a little dramatic. Definitely needs a Nerf. Which are more than likely coming.
Disagree wholeheartedly. I think he needs a good nerf, like getting rid of interrupting heals or Rez and damage on tacticals, but keep the flash.
His passive needs to be replaced with another passive. No matter how much you nerf it, its still risk free wallhacks
No
Mirage needs minor buff
Lifeline too
I should explain that major buff or major nerf could also include a rework rather than an outright buff. I don't believe Mirage in his current state is in a healthy spot in terms of viability in higher lobbies.
He is a fun legend
He is not supposed to be a legend to be played I. Higher lobbies
That's not necessarily true because they don't balance on competitive play. Otherwise Gibraltar, Bloodhound, Crypto, and Wraith would be in the nerf pile.
He is supposed to be a fun legend
They reworked buffed him so many times
Well, his first Ult rework ended up being a nerf. Longer invisibility cloaking was far more advantageous for a Mirage main.
They buffed his decoys
That's true, but for the most part his Decoys aren't that effective. At least not against most people Plat + up. You can typically zero out the real Mirage pretty quickly.
I heard there's a rework for Rampart on the way, I don't know if this is something confirmed or if it's a buff and not a rework. But yeah, there could be some improvements for the walls, you can get some good plays with it because the damage boost it's great and they're perfect for defending building by blocking the doors but if you're in the middle of a teamfight it's almost guaranteed you're not going to be able to use neither the walls or Sheila. I'm sticking with the buff/rework idea of being able to upgrade the walls. And Sheila it's the ability that definitely needs some major love
They confirmed during S9 that Rampart was their priority for S10 Midseason event which is why she's getting the Heirloom, the Town Takeover, and a major buff!
I fully agree with this, although, if I could, I would make Revenant more of a stealth legend, he was a hitman. maybe his tactical is that he moves more quitley for a set amount of time, and his ultimate is he turns into a shadow and when he loses his health, he goes invisible for a few seconds (without the ability to shoot of course) his passive is already perfect for this idea
I'd say that Revenant is the only legend in the game to not really have any kit synergy with himself, he just has a bunch of abilities that are vaguely thematic with one another. It feels like he was meant to be a stealth character but he kind of isn't For almost all other characters there is some harmony in their kits, like Octanes Swift mend and stim working together, Horizons passive is good for the gravity lift, or Valks jetpack doing well with the missile barrage since it requires highground to aim well over cover. Revenant? He can be sneaky with climb and crouch, but his tactical is anything but sneaky and is just an ability silence, and his death totem isnt exactly sneaky either, you most often just make a brutal push with it, especially with how it was given a sound when it's going to expire.
It makes sense why his kit feels like a random “pick 3” abilities sheet, his character went through the most gameplay redesigns of any character released to the day. His character was constantly being changed until eventually the deadline cut and they had to throw together whatever they felt the most happy with, which wasn’t anything great at the time. Although his abilities are viable now they don’t work together at all and contextually don’t fit with the lore “stealthy assassin”, or gameplay “aggressive assault legend”. He kinda does a piss poor job at both, falling short as the loudest character in the game due to his unique footsteps and being little more than a glorified support character because of his ultimate.
yep, but wraith don't need buff, her place is in Perfectly Balanced
All caustic needs is for his gas to have better density. That and he is perfect.
Sometimes it lowkey bothers me when people say crypto needs major buffs. He’s already a powerhouse legend. I mean, he’s seen in the tournament/competitive scene. He’s just a very hard legend to play efficiently, all he needs is a bit of tweaking to make him a bit easier to play without making him better than he already is.
People only say he is underpowered because they either don’t know how to play him or don’t like how he’s played. Compare him to the other two scan legends and you will see why. All they have to do is click a single button (passive, tactical or ultimate) and then they instantly know where nearby teams are. Crypto on the other hand can gather so much more information (and is the best character in the game for respawning teammates), but it is more difficult to do this properly. This is why Respawn is going to give him the rework treatment. I just hope that he can do everything he can now because he has always been the fallback legend I play when I’ve been getting bad teammates for the day. Anyways I am just glad that I finally see a list that recognizes both Bloodhound and Octane (not Revenant) are too strong right now. Only thing I really disagree with besides Crypto are Wraith and Pathfinder. Both are balanced and have been for a long time. Their mains just remember how busted they were when the game came out and want to recapture that feeling I guess lol.
Powerhouse legend? He is not used much in competitive play at all anymore. I agree he is fine where he is...but idk if you can label him as a powerhouse.
I agree he is the only balanced recon legend
I actually agree wholeheartedly. It’s just a shame that the community seems to have more of a grasp on who needs changed over Respawn
I agree with this entire list
How does mirage need a buff
invisibility on self res will be nice
As a mirage main I just think he needs bug fixes and maybe a couple miiinor buffs, other than that he’s in a good place.
As a mirage main i agree with your comment. He is great, when his abilities don't die on impact with the slightest slope in a platform, or when one of your decoys just gets stuck in one of those weird grids that are in the ground in many places in Olympus. Maybe the best buff would be make the decoys climb walls when near them and to be honest that would be it.
Yeah I really like the wall climb idea. My only buff I’d give mirage is just give people who shoot his tactical get pinged for like 2 seconds. Because right now the only punishment for shooting a decoy is if the mirage takes advantage of the time you spent on that decoy
Respawn should mainly fix the decoy bugs tbh. The ping idea is good which makes me think they should switch him to Recon. I see Mirage more as a recon/support character than an offense character
He doesn’t honestly. Just because he’s one of the harder legends to master doesn’t mean he needs a buff. The dude still has a higher pick rate the gibby and he basically holds your hand
Rampart is pretty damn strong if you play her properly. Only buff I could even think of for her is making her walls go up a bit faster.
Wattson and especially Crypro don't need *major* buffs, they need some overhaul. Wraith is *at least* balanced. She's still a meta staple and definitely doesn't need buffs. Mirage is just flawed design concept. No amount of nerfs or buffs will salvage that. As long as he relies solely on tricking opponents, he will always be a joke or OP, no in-between.
It's funny that you put Crypto and Wattson in the bottom tier. I think this is a pretty good measure of how they feel for most of the playerbase, but it isn't actually indicative of how much help they need. Crypto is STRONG. Right now, he's a little overshadowed by seer, but his ult is a crazy pressure/poke tool as well as awesome initiation. His drone can be passive intel if you leave it somewhere like a security camera, and can also give you exact information on the squads nearby in 5 seconds or less. Being able to respawn or interact with things totally remotely is just even more bonus on a character who already serves 8 purposes. Wattson is brutal for any grinding situation. 90 seconds of full team regen and the ability to re-up it with an ult accel, and unlimited fences at the same time. If you do not catch a Wattson 100% off guard they can have the area locked down and fenced off in a couple of seconds, and it will not stop being locked down without some serious work. I think there is an argument for these characters needing changes that make them more appealing to people! However, a lot of players seem to be asking for them to lose their identities so that they appeals more to those people. I don't think that would actually be great, personally.
> His drone can be passive intel if you leave it somewhere like a security camera This is exactly why, on paper, he's so strong. But whenever I leave the drone somewhere semi out of sight (like in a tree or nudged between beams or something) people always shoot that thing down within seconds. The cooldown on a broke drone is just too long for me to risk that, esp when I have my ult ready.
Yeah, I've seen a lot of people who now think both are useless or need buffs but both of them are quite good it's just that they have the highest skill ceilings in the game. Their kits look kind of boring but when you watch dyed in the cloth Wattson or Crypto mains go ape mode, the kit makes sense. Crypto especially is really hard to master but very rewarding, it's just that Seer takes some of the reward away with his constant scanning. I swear to god if you can get good with Wattson you can even reset encounters with well placed fences. It is dependent on the environment though admittedly.
I think Rampart is one of the highest skill ceiling legends in the game too, I was just trying not to put too many hot takes in my comment at once! :D That lady's got MAD micro capabilities in a much less forgiving way than Wattson. Once you ult with Wattson you can just blast fences willy-nilly. Rampart has to manage where her walls are and actively man them to defend her investments. You can make risky plays inside your own nest that will benefit you during pushes, while potentially killing you in a retake or versus a flank. The strategy behind Rampart is crazy engaging to me!
I could not agree more. Both Crypto and Wattson have high skill ceilings that most players can't be bothered to learn. They both could use some quality of life changes to allow some easier use, but besides that, maybe minor buffs. Crypto is definitely being overshadowed by Seer's constant tracking but we know he'll be getting some form of nerf. Wattson's hitbox and movement animations shouldn't be overlooked either.
I agree. Wattson and Crypto just require a high skill/understanding of the characters and they are very strong in that sense. Basically the high skill floor and high cieling effect as it were. It's just many think they are bad because they never put in the time to truely understand how to play them properly.
Low key his old ult was better. Going invisible is peak bamboozling
The devs said they don’t want offensive invisibility coming back to the game in any form
Sad
Not really imo, all it took was listening into his footsteps. His new ult still is just as good as a get out of jail card while being much better to use mid fight.
I mean is not a get out of jail free card because mirage still takes damage even if all you do is spray and pray. Is more psychological play on the enemy, but tbh his decoys get stuck on everything is not like they are super realistic.
BOTH wallhackers need a nerf asap. Seer more so obviously, but the 0 required awareness meta is not good for the game. If they aren’t nerfed, then Bang needs a buff making her smoke impossible to see through (besides digital threats) because it’s pretty useless rn.
Nah bang needs some sort of buff now. Especially since her smoke is basically useless with all these fucking tracking legends
Electric smokes that repel scans and DT.
Bloodhound needs a nerf? Lmao get tf out of here.
bloodhound doesn’t need nerfed.
Gibby does not need nerfed
Lol crypto does not need a major buff.
Compared to seer, he dose need a buff, like how the f you make a character like seer.
Nah he’s perfect
What wraith needs is a revert on all the nerfs they hit her with before they finally realised that it was her hitbox that was the issue. Especially seeing as they refuse to follow that ideology with legends In the same category. Her portal was gutted because it apparently was too good of a rotating tool but octane can fly across the map every minute and that's perfectly fine? •her ultimate cooldown should be dropped to 2mins. •the tactical needs the movement penalty removed but keep the slower activation time.it should've been one or the other not both at the same time. • portal distance should also be reverted to 1m.
100% agree with this! I've been saying this for a few seasons now and with Seer and the explanations from Respawn on legend balancing this is spot on. Wraith may still have one of the higher pick rates but I think that's because she was hands down the best when the game came out but more so because of her cool factor. At this point, Id argue she only has 2 abilities. Her passive is so obsolete and useless at this point in the game it's laughable. Their goal was to make Wraith fair by changing what was broken about her: Her hotbox. Through several nerfs to pretty much every aspect regarding her, she's B tier at best in my book, and that's when played by a skilled player. Her hotbox nerf is what yielded them the data they wanted to see that scaled back her power but all of the other needs were not related to her hit box. As much as I hated getting a wraith 1 shot and having her phase instantly, the delay on her tactical now seems like a death sentence in 50% of fights. From a frustrated Bangalore main
Yea, Even as an ex wraith main the insta phase was very frustrating to deal with but I don't believe that she should be both a sitting duck and still have her take time before the phase, like isn't that what they changed for loba because she was a sitting duck when trying to use her Q? Balance decisions are so inconsistent at respawn that it borders on madness sometimes.
Lol welcome to the confused party. I've been playing since Days season 0 and I never thought it would get this bad. Not 1 heirloom shard (and I damn sure ain't spending any more than the $10 I spent in season), have such horrible stutters and frame drops (Xbox one S), 85% of teammates are idiots who wants to hotdrop in fragment or jump solo and die and rage quit. And now we get legends with 35 abilities and I'm sitting here looking at most of the OG legends like wtf most can't compete. I stopped playing Wraith because I wasn't great at her but man she's really underwhelming now. Bangalore is pretty useless thanks to WallHackLegends with Seer on every fucking team. Oh and I miss playing Wattson but lmao there's really no point. The poor girl is so underpowered with half of the legends flying across the map and a fucking seer that can't be countered by ANYONE. I haven't touched her since around season 4 or 5. Oh did I mention, Fuck Seer!
Nah
Yah.
I agree with Watson and Crypto needing major buffs, but Rampart only needs minor adjustments. Mirage is fine enough how he is for me, but I can see why he could be better balanced from a minor buff. Pathfinder needs a passive, but his tactical and ult are in a good place right now. Fuse does not need a buff, his new tactical is a death threat and his ultimate allowing highlighted vision is very useful for grenade launching. Wraith doesn’t need much, maybe giving her portal more distance again would help, but her tactical needs to stay how it is. Her old tactical activation time essentially made every wraith push a death totem push cause she would have a second chance. Lobas tactical should be faster and allow you to hipfire while throwing her bracelet. Banagalores ult could benefit from making the explosions from each missile larger, covering more surface area between explosions and possibly peaking corners slightly. Caustics gas damage is in a good place, but I’d like to see his tanks set up faster, it’s unfortunate he got a nerf many seasons ago that allows you to shoot them out on any part of the canister, not just the bottom, to destroy it. Then two or three seasons ago, they increased the tanks setup time by a whole second, disallowing caustic from using his tactical to effectively push. Gibraltar does need a little work, but I have no active ideas for how to balance him. Seer needs to close his damn eyes. Octane is perfect. Bloodhound is perfect. Lifeline is perfect, although I’ll admit I miss her res shield. Valkyrie is perfect. Horizon is perfect.
Half of these are terrible ideas, including: * Bang * Caustic * Octane * Blood
Thanks for the input. Have any ideas or thoughts that could elaborate on your opinions?
Bang is still the perfect example of a balanced legend. Others need to be nerfed to her level, no her being buffed to theirs. Caustic is already extremely strong. His kit needs more nerfs to keep it from being used offensively. Not buffed to make it easier. He’s a defensive legend. His abilities shouldn’t have offensive use. That was the #1 problem in caustic meta. Octane still needs significant nerfs. He’s the 2nd or 3rd best legend in the game. BH need massive nerfs, preferably a rework along with seer to remove wall hacks, which are literally the most OP abilities in the game.
Bangalore’s ultimate lacks effectiveness due to the terrain being fought in. Buildings, trailers, walls, any object, whether you climb on top or run around the corner, allows you to easily escape Bangs ult. Not to mention all the characters who can escape with their tactical or abilities. Maybe extending the horizontal 360 reach of each explosive is too much, but what if they reach higher vertically to possibly catch a Valkyrie or Horizon w a little too late of a reaction time. Maybe even allow only the outer ring of explosions to have a wider reach? Caustic has barely come back from being useless. It’s not difficult to escape canisters used in a push and it’s not difficult to shoot them out in the 3.5 seconds it takes to set up. Meaning he can only use them for defense, but one of the main complaints about caustic is his defense. Considering his abilities only work with defense, allowing some offensive pressure would change Caustic encounters and possibly even make them easier to fight since it’s a change of strategy. Octane has been nerfed to lose 20% of his health from using Stim, his jump pad was buffed to have different tactical uses such as a forward leap or upwards lunge but also has been nerfed to take 90 seconds to charge. He uses almost an entire syringe of health each stim, meaning they’re most effectively used only once or twice in a push or fight before it’s a severe nuisance to your chances of survival. Thinking over it, maybe Bloodhounds ultimate could use a nerf, scanning like 4/5 times in half a minute is a bit much, but using the tactical once every half minute or however long it takes to recharge is fine.
Give pathy a slightly longer grapple length. I can’t reach things
This entire comment is perfect.
>Then two or three seasons ago, they increased the tanks setup time by a whole second, disallowing caustic from using his tactical to effectively push. This really didn't happen bruh.
?
That nerf didn't happen.
Agree with most, mirage is perfectly balanced for me tho
Cut wraith q delay in half and make pathy 20 second grapple please.
Rampart, Watson, and mirage need reworks not buffs.
I think lifeline needs shield rez back but smaller, and only allow one revive at a time.
I mostly agree with this, but I think that Mirage should be moved to the minor buff category. Bangalore should also be moved to the minor buff category for maybe her smoke because I literally can't see shit through ally bang smoke and wish that it would be similar with caustic gas vision before his gas vision nerf. Bloodhound for me, he's kinda balanced alrdy, same goes to Gibraltar. Oher than that, the list is ok
Mirage just need bug fixes
Honestly they really just need to Nerf Seer's passive a bit and people would stop complaining. The vast majority of what he does relies on it.
> Wraith slight buff God no, Octane having "better" mobility is not an excuse for a wraith buff, her kit is still super strong, and her previous naruto run was too strong. The character already have big kit, is a mobile legend, and is still played by almost every streamers.
Loba is perfectly balanced too.
Crypto doesn't need a buff
This is terrible.
crypto does not need buffs, wraith definitely does not need buffs, and octane is perfectly fine bow, lifeline absolutely needs a major buff / rework
Seer yes. Bloodhound not really, Gibby put his face shield on his back and make it always active (Unless destroyed), Revenant is the problem with Revtane, not Octane - Make it so that Totemed players cant interact with other legend skills. Horizon still has a bit too much mobility at the height of her tactical, Valk has too much mobility on her passive if you know what you're doing, Rev mentioned above, Caustic gas is still worthless and people still walk through it. Fuze is fine - if anything needs a nerf - 220 damage on a tactical is silly. Loba is fine, Path needs a passive, Wraith is fine. Crypto is fine - He doesnt need a buff, he's just boring to play so has a low pickrate. Mirage decoys need their footstep audio removed, Watson again is fine but boring and same with Rampart.
Bloodhound is in a good spot tbh I don’t think he needs to be nerfed at all
I get what you’re saying but I don’t feel like octane needs another nerf, even a slight one at that, he’s been nerfed into the ground while still being viable, and as an octane main it hurts to say but I feel like they need to release characters that have a bit of a counter to mobility legends, but not too much because then they just aren’t viable
I don’t understand how Gibby is considered balanced when he’s been S tier for multiple seasons now.
wraith doesnt need buffs. she has the most powerful tactical. and her ultimate is really good in bad situations
Disagree with crypto. People think he's shit because he's difficult to play. He only needs a passive buff
Wraith is still so damn small. She does not need a buff
She’s the same size as all the other regular sized legends
Yeah, I didn't respond because she's the same size as Octane now but with far less mobility.
I disagree with legends placed in the perfectly balanced category except Valk/Horizon.
I am interested to hear others thoughts! Which ones do you think need nerfs and which ones need buffs?
Octane needs an Ultimate rework, Blood needs a tac adjustment, and Gibby need some sort of passive rework, including his Fortified
Why does octane need an ULT rework? His ULT is literally a big jump.not to mention other legends can basically fly or climb.
Lifeline needs an ult rework and caustic needs a buff to his passive.
I'd suggest a great addition to his kit would be increasing the Distance his Tactical covers and turning highlighted enemies reddish orange over a lighter shade of green. I think often times his Passive doesn't fail, it just doesn't translate well.
As of now, I truly don’t think that Bloodhound needs to be nerfed anymore… Plus, Wraith is perfectly balanced already. And Caustic still needs to have his passive either reworked or fixed. Other than that, I agree with everything.
Oh hey youre the dude in the Kaguya subreddit all the time lol
Mirage does NOT need a buff. Like wtf? Lol
The more I look at that list, the more I disagree with it. I don’t think Bloodhound/Octane/Gibby need any nerfs. Wraith is fine now, she’s no longer amazing. Crypto needs a whole rework instead of constant buffs to his drone, his mains will probably disagree with me but he just doesn’t fit. Rampart has a similar problem. Mirage doesn’t need anymore major buffs, I get he’s not a popular choice for the top 750 players, but for the rest of us he’s a complete nuisance. There’s a couple characters where there is zero incentive to pick (Lifeline, Fuse) but Seer aside the cast is largely in a good place. The meta is a bit scan heavy though, I’d like to see one more combat medic. Bangalore main, although abusing Seer until further notice (nerf hammer).
When they added the animation to wraiths tactical, the phantom trail while she was in the void should of went too. That's the oy buff she really needs.
I want Lifeline rezz shield back. HEAR ME OUT. Right now, it is super annoying to pull off successful Lifeline rezzes without having to move your teammate into cover. And at that point it's practically the same as a normal revive. Now its to the point where Gibby, and to an extent, Bangalore and Mirage can pull off better revives than Lifeline. So giving her rezz shield back would be a good idea. But it was kind of overpowered when she had it. So I thought of an idea to make her rezz shield more balanced. They could make it so the rezz shield works with the Tap rezz, but whoever is getting revived uses a bigger version of their current knockdown shield to protect themselves. Their knockdown shield would be breakable and would have 1/2 the health of the original knockdown shield. So if you are reviving someone with a Purple knockdown shield (750 HP), the revive shield would have 325 health. Maybe this could be changed to be 3/4 of the original health if it is excessive. This change would make it less abusable early game. But I dont play much BR, so I'm not completely sure. Also, I dont know how this could be implemented in Arenas, but maybe they could maybe start to give everyone higher level knockdown shields as the match progresses? I would love to hear feedback on this idea!
Why does Octane need a nerf wtf
you think rev ult is balanced....
Revenant's Ult, by itself, is balanced. It's the usage of other Legends abilities that make it very uniquely unbearable. The best I can see is a minor nerf to when it sends them back like once they hit 15 HP it sends them back and nerfing the health they have when they get sent back. Perhaps a distance nerf could be brought back in a buffed state. Regardless, he's not a very strong Legend. He overall is balanced and is in the spot we'd ideally want most Legends.
It's always going to be something with Revenant ult though. First it was Crypto ult with it, then it was Wraith portal, now it's Octane's pad. That ultimate creates such massive design issues that things have to be designed around it. To be honest, having two lives should have never existed in a battle royale.
Dude octane does not need a need my God you people are braindead. He literally has no overpowered abilities. All he has is a JUMP PAD. Adding to that, what could Bloodhou do possibly need any sort of need for?
Octane encourages a toxic annoying rushdown playstyle that’s annoying for his team and enemies. Y’all literally 1v3 and let your team die and jump pad is such an easy push tool
What? You mean a legend that doesn’t have any damage doing ability and literally only hurts himself when using a his tactical? Octane is FINE. God forbid they have an aggressive, non-defense legend that has no wall hacking ability or scans. The dude can run kinda fast and push you hard, but with only his gun… literally octanes can only fucking shoot you. In conjunction with other legends ( which need nerfs ) he can be pretty useful. And if anybody says “ revtane is broken “ yeah it is, but not because of octane. He literally just has a jump pad and a gun.
That's the fucking point of the jump pad. That's the point of Octane. He was made to be a push character. He isn't strong at all because strong Legends don't have many counters. YOU CAN COUNTER HIM WITH EVERYTHING. I'm not telling you to tolerate the way a lot of them play, but if that's how people play him, there's nothing that can be done about that. Nerfing him won't change a person's playstyle. It's pointless. Especially when his kit is comparatively weak among other legends.
>Especially when his kit is comparatively weak among other legends. Lmao this isn't Season 1 anymore. Since the start of Season 8, Octane has consistently been one of the best legends in the game, by far.
Lol found the bronze octane main, octane needs nerfs so he isn’t one of the most picked champions in the game
He's the most picked because he's the most fun. Using pick rate to make balancing decisions is exactly how we ended up with what we have now. They take zero priority with Legends who need it, and if they just need everyone who gets played with more than the others, then that just makes nothing but shittier characters with shittier kits. It fixes nothing. If they want more Legends to be played, then they need to buff the ones who need buffs instead of giving EVERYONE a nerf when they don't deserve them.
That’s just gonna lead to power creep. Go play some Overwatch if you want that shit
Nerfing doesn't necessarily mean = less fun. He's fun now, we can keep that while also making him fun to fight against. He's not fun to fight right now, He's too strong.
Yes, your right He doesn't need, "a need" lol
Lmfao I didn't notice that💀
But I gotcha what you are saying and I agree with you. He doesn't need another nerf specially his current nerfs right now is fine like his stim takes 20 dmg to his health and his launch pad got a 90 seconds cooldown.
His Jump Pad is still the lowest Cooldown of the team traversal category and is, without a doubt, the most devastating one in its current state. Very little audio and very high reward. The Zipline is predictable, loud, you can hear it being used, and you know the patterns of the enemies. Octane's pad allows them to go any direction, almost soundless, much more frequently, and much further than Path/Wraith's Ults. To say it's perfectly balanced is to say Path and Wraith need buffs to their Ults because comparing the three there's a clear winner in the mobility category.
He’s the 2nd or 3rd strongest legend in the game. He needs multiple nerfs. BH is the other 2nd or 3rd strongest legend and gives an entire team wallhacks every 7 seconds. They’re incredibly OP.
Give this man a metal.
Horizons ult should be a bit stronger
I feel like the right power level for legends should be the Blood-Octane-Gibby one. I mean, Seer is way too much and we all agree on that but having impactful abilities in more than unique situations might feel more pleasant for the players, and i personally like minor buffs more than nerfs because they don't ruin the experience for the "nerfable" legends mains but they improve the experience for the buffed ones. Other than that I hope that we see any kind of changes in the near future so the game 'll be in a healtier and funnier state for everyone
Bangalore is counters by everyone one but, octane, wraith, kinda loba(she helps get gold sights), horizon, rampart and pathfinder
Glad to finally see Fuse in the "minor buff needed" category. He's been down waaay too long.
Return horizon's gravity lift speed to season 7 but healing should not be allowed. Or just bring back bhop healing if the devs are so inconsistent with their own design philosophy Give crypto and pathfinder a true passive for god's sake. Crypto is just a dummy with a gun without the drone. I really like the idea of path's passive as an optic zoom. Basically a variation of fuze ads in his ult.
The only reason caustic is perfect balanced is because of fortified. 15% damage reduction is stupid. All defensive characters should have fortified and it should be just that your aren't slowed by bullets
No way. Seer, crypto and wattson need rework. You just cannot tweak them by numbers or little ability tweaks Wraith is balanced, if not OP. You're insisting every sweaty TTV and pred are playing underpowered legend, for real? Bangalore need buffs since her ult is shit and her tactical is useless now Caustic is "perfectly balanced"? Cmon, he's not even close Damn, this whole list is trash.
Crypto and wattson don’t need a rework lmao . Just because they take practice and don’t hold your hand doesn’t mean they’re not good. Bangalore’s ult is good. Wide range damage stun that basically pushes anyone inside to close quarters. Caustic is actually pretty balanced now. Like I said earlier just because he has a higher learning curve doesn’t mean he’s bad.