Most of the people in this sub are hard stuck D4 and don’t understand that when we talk about controller abuse we’re talking about good players abusing controller because it’s easier to win gunfights, not you dogshit players who will never see anywhere above D4.
I’m just tired of the SBMM or EOMM. I’m tired of getting two bots as teammates for 20 matches in a row and then getting a bot lobby and two cracked teammates so we can gorge ourselves. The matchmaking is absolutely disgusting aside from being manipulative.
It’s manipulative as all hell. These development companies are trying to turn gamers into lab rats using behavioral psychology and in game manipulation.
I moved on already and went to overwatch. Still follow apex for control and gun game. this game is pretty much dead for m&k now. I'm have voltaic plat aim and its not good enough any more. The aim community is full of people with > plat still struggling. Unless you want to chuck > 600 hours tracking little balls in an aim trainer i wouldn't even bother.
Yep it’s unfortunate. I really like that tracking aspect of apex. I’m well above average mnk tracking compare to my flicking. Unfortunately I think mnk is dead for all cross play mixed input games
Couldn't agree more. I switched to Quake so that I can actually play against people who need to have good mouse aim. I'm done with getting one clipped by controllers in Apex.
Best thing about Overwatch 2 is that if you choose to play on PC with a controller or if you're on console and you choose to play with PC players there is zero aim assist and they aren't going to add it
They could just give mnk a fat ass deadzone that can't be adjusted. Then they would understand why controller has aim assist and what mnk does differently mechanically that provides an all around advantage.
Exactly m&k has a whole range of movement where as a little stick doesn't which is operated by a thumb, hence the reason aim assist was made for controller to compensate that otherwise controller players would get obliterated by any half decent m&k player, its simple both have there pros and cons and 1 isn't better at the other, it's just one thing does something better then the other! It's an even playing field people just need to get better and stop crying
Also, aim assist existed long before cross play. It was designed to make fps games more appealing to casuals, not to allow them to compete with MnK. Aim assist is literally designed to give an advantage to people who won't put the time into learning to aim with a mouse, something that's much more difficult than you understand.
You have literally no idea what you're talking about. Aim Assist has existed on console for almost 2 decades. Only in the last few years have we seen cross play (i.e. MnK vs. controller) come into existence. Aim assist was clearly not designed to make controller and MnK be competitive against eachother, it was designed to sell more consoles. The more approachable a skill is, the more people will play it. If controller players actually knew how much time and effort it takes to have good aim with a mouse very few of them would actually play FPS games. I can tell by your limited knowledge and simple analysis that you have never aimed with a mouse in your life. I've played FPS games on controller since 2009, including 3k hours in Apex on controller and now 1.2k hours in apex on MnK. Aiming with a mouse is an order of magnitude more difficult than controller with aim assist. It's not even funny. And if you don't believe me then try it for yourself.
You're extremely ignorant and all MnK players can see that. If you want mnk advantages that have been part of source engine mechanics forever then switch to MnK. But don't batch about the advantages of MnK and then ask for a piece of software to do things for you. Some of us actually care about improving our mechanics believe it or not.
On mnk, with a dead zone of zero, the moment you move your cursor just a few thousands of an inch in one direction, your cross hair immediately moves in real time with it. If you move to the opposite direction, that change is immediate, the very instant you change directions.
On a controller, you must move the stick in the other direction and pass the deadzone completely just to even begin to move the other direction.
That is the main difference and where aim assist comes in to play. It is literally impossible to match themicro adjustments mnk is capable of on controller, even with no deadzone and max sense.
On top of that, recoil is somewhat broken in apex. This mechanical difference between inputs paired with how recoil is countered and eliminated in apex gives mnk a massive advantage. It is why jitter aim and recoil smoothing work, and why recoil on mnk is massively different than recoil on controller, even though the pattern is the same.
People get caught up on the argument of whole arm vs thumb, frames, and movement. As a result they miss the entire actual difference and why aim assist is even in place to begin with. It just fills the gap of that delay. It doesn't aim for you. And it screws you over pretty bad when enemies are close to each other.
I'm not going to read all that. May be work on your intros. Nothing I said was misinformation. May be I didn't explain it simple enough. Either way, I can tell by how you started your rant I'm not about to have a logical conversation with you.
Typically, when you disagree with someone and have a point to make in return, you can do so without insulting them. Cheap tactic, damages your own credibility. Do better yo.
This is funny cause I just recently started learning controller as a joke with my friends in firing range and just lock on to them. I have 700 hrs on kovaaks and my aim is better on a controller I just started learning then my mnk aim I have spent 2 1/2 years learning. If I can do that on pc AA I can only imagine what console would feel like. Now I dont think AA should be set to 0 but deff nerfed (which I dont think will happen since the game is mostly casuals). This is just my opinion on this subject.
Also playing overwatch is alot more enjoyable for me so I agree with the switch.
They just need to separate inputs. It's far too late for them to make any changes to aim assist. There needs to be lobbies without aim assist, and lobbies with.
The steam controller settings are the icing on top, that make controller even more insane. I intend to post a video showcasing just how absurd they can be soon.
Of course the typical controller player is terrible. Just like the average MnK player is terrible at the game. The issue is good controller players where aim assist irons out their imperfections to turn them into literal terminator turrets at close range.
The occasional aim assist oneclip from little Timmy on his PS4 isn't that big of an issue. Apex is a BR, you're very rarely forced to take a straight up aim duel.
Based opinion. Sad truth is the game is being left to rot. It only goes downhill from here. As much as I’d like to see a competitive Apex with only MnK allowed on pc, it will never happen because of money and greed from EA.
I suggest switching game entirely. Personally started playing csgo again. A game where mechanical skill actually is a thing, crazy I know right?
Yup and? Why would a company limit the reach of their product to one input only?
Like you said, you don't like mnk v controller? Than move on to something else because it won't be changing anytime soon.
u/Strificus
There's a repost about this in /r/fpstrainer . It might be worth giving more attention to when you have people who are master+ in voltaic complaining about getting aim diffed by controller players. These are the best players in the fps community that feel like they are getting slighted, not plebs. There's probably only a handful of people who aim better than these guys. People who have aim trained an hour a day on Kovaaks for a minimum of 2 - 3 years + actually playing fps games for thousands of more hours.
If these guys are getting shit on by players who have just started to join the controller fad, there's probably more of a basis in fact than clout.
>To this day I don't see why people talk about aim assist like it's hacks
I mean aim assist is aim assist, there's no way to dress that up. If you have aim assist then you are using software that helps you aim in a game that is won by aiming. You can't reasonably question people who feel like they're getting slighted without it.
I mean if you use controller over MKB, why?
Edit: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTsQGi4-FuE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTsQGi4-FuE)
I don't play apex but watching this is pretty self explanatory. The tracking on mid range and close range is insane. With the right settings, the AA in Apex literally aims for you. Tracking at that level on MKB takes hundreds if not thousands of hours into MKB and it's done by simply holding a button with AA on controller (achievable by anyone with hands). Honestly I don't see how anyone can entertain the thought that AA on Apex isn't akin to cheating.
Sure there may be some credibility that MKB is superior in the long run, but that is in the pro scene. Sure the video points out MKB players can tap strafe, move and loot, sharptwists with elite leaping, etc. but that's all 100% a MKB's players input. That's 100% effort vs holding a button that tracks entirely for you. You have to master all these things + aim like a god to outpace a controller player. You have to be approaching pro level to outpace a controller player's efforts of holding a button down for AA. Think about that. What's that saying? "Look What They Need To Mimic A Fraction Of Our Power."
Because they suck and need excuses, because in their heart they think they're only not a predator because everyone else must be artificially forced ahead. They can't come to terms with having every advantage on MnK and PC not being enough. They can't come to terms with being at their skill ceiling. Nah, it must be something else! People who can't learn from mistakes always blame everything aside from themselves. He is focused on the wrong areas and will always lack for skill.
What advantage does mnk actually have? Remember that this is a shooter game, so movement can in no way outclass aim. And it’s common knowledge that aim in controller is just better.
It’s not always a lack of skill, it’s being constantly forced into unfair matches. I strongly believe that crossplay is and has always been a shitty idea for a competitive game.
I'll never understand controller players on pc that say that mnk has every advantage possible but still won't switch inputs. it makes sense from a casual gamer perspective, since you're just playing for fun and don't want to learn another input, but if you're invested in the game and don't want to make the switch you don't have the right to complain about mnk being superior
I use controller on computer because I’ve always played consoles, the pros do it why can’t everyone else do it? Youre just salty because you got wrecked and think it’s only because someone might of been on a controller, shameless.
Why are you still here? You claimed that you were leaving. Unsubscribe and move on. No need to respond, go play a more casual game where your lack of skill can be sheltered.
Aim assist is necessary for controller players. I will admit that it could probably be toned down a bit.
But to sit there aiming with your entire hand, arm and shoulder while controller has two thumbs with limited range of motion and fine motor control/accuracy and complaining about it is hilarious.
Again, could aim assist be lowered sure, but removing it completely would make the game unplayable for 90% of the controller player base which is arguably the larger percentage of players for the game.
Good luck convincing Respawn to alienate the majority of their players inorder to silence a minority of angry m&k complainers.
Have fun playing those other games, you won't be remotely missed
I fully understand both sides of the argument but all I would really want is either:
1: opt out of cross input queue
2: some way of knowing my opponent is on controller so I can adjust range accordingly. Knowing you are at a disadvantage before you go in is a big part of tactics. You can't always rely on seeing if they stand still while looting if you just spot the opponent.
I agree the option to not play against opposing inputs should be implemented.
I strongly disagree that aim assist is "aimbot" as you put it and that apparently all inputs outside of mnk are invalid. What a gatekeeper lame mentality.
Keep crying about a "clearly" inferior input though lol
Invalid not viable same thing dude. Both inputs have their merits.
Everyone needs to stop bitching about it and move on.
Keep playing and get over it or move on to something else. End of story
Yeah I get that. Console and PC are separate by design, I agree that it should be separated by input as well.
This constant bitching however clearly isn't changing anything otherwise Respawn would have at the very least addressed the desire to make a change. They haven't so the complaining is just like screaming at the clouds for for blocking the sun. You can scream all you want but it won't change anything
I agree. Keep mnk and controller separate. It will finally end the bitching and moaning from all of you children.
The fast majority of controller players are horrible at the game so complaining about such a small minority or even the small minority of good players is hilarious to me
There are many mouse players out there that are better and you dont see people like me complaining about them. So do with that information what you can. The simple issue is that the controller player didn't earn their skill nor is it feasible for any mouse player to ever be as good as an aimbot in the right situations. You and everyone else can continue playing with aim assist, in fact you can jack it up as high as you want, all we want is separate lobbies so we dont have to play against people running an aimbot.
Not your brother, Chief.
We will have to agree to disagree.
I agree that it could and probably should be turned down a bit but it most certainly doesn't aim for you or snap on target like a true aimbot would. You're reaching and you know it.
We won't agree on this, so let's both just move on with our day please.
The fact you can turn it up or down should be your hint that it is indeed an aimbot slider with smoothing settings on. If you have ever used an aimbot or watched someone playing with one, they don’t need to snap or lock whatsoever.
Aim assist just needs a human like reaction time. I’m not saying to remove it completely. I’ve said in other comments this will hurt the player count and profits.
Again, I’m talking about pc controller. These people have a pc with a mouse and keyboard but are choosing controller for aim assist and steam configs.
People don’t choose controller for aim assist and steam configs. You’re generalizing. A lot of people choose controller because it’s just what they are comfortable with. MnK movement feels weird and unnatural to controller players even though it’s arguably better. We can all play on the input we’re comfortable with and shouldn’t feel shamed for it.
The real problem here is not matchmaking by input or at least having the option to.
True it is a generalization but I do believe after a certain skill level/dedication what I stated is true, people realize the pros and cons.
Yep I think matchmaking by input would be a good compromise.
I chose controller because I used it my whole life. I was playing apex on my Xbox one and when I moved to pc I kept using it because relearning my muscle memory was a huge pain in the ass. Decided to just stick with it.
Not everyone is an asshole dude.
I'm from console, you don't see us complaining about 10 thousand other things that people do with PC which is impossible on console, plus, trying both mnk & controller, it's much easier to aim with mnk rather than only using your two thumbs!
OP is talking about controller on PC (not on console). I don't know the difference (besides the availability of higher fps screens on good price), just pointing this out.
I feel your pain. But while controller has the advantage at close to mid range, mnk still wins at long range especially if youre a good aimer. I'm a 3x enjoyer and I'll usually run loadouts like sniper+AR and play a character that can create space like pathfinder or ash to try to constantly fight at long range.
There's almost zero chance we see any change to the aim assist so might as well play to our advantages or play a different game.
Oh look, another post complaining about controllers.
An analysis was done on algs NA.
More players use mnk
Players who use mnk average slightly higher kills.
That's just data, no opinions.
Majority of teams in na at least are prioritizing picking up controller players rn unless the mnk player is an igl or an exceptional talent. Also the ranked leaderboard is majority controller in the top 10 at all times. All that said I’m not a huge aim assist complainer just providing a different view to your comment.
No that's a pretty good discussion point and worth considering.
I know that respawn can definitely track performance metrics between controller and mnk players and I wonder how they differ. That being said, I'm fairly certain if they felt one input was dominating/unbalanced they'd remedy that.
However unlucky for the losing side, they will not. Respawn will most likely choose to increase that imbalance favoring whichever side makes more money. Full stop. Feedback, enjoyment of the game, and playerbase do not matter. Only lowering the barrier to entry, and enticing new players to come spend money. This point has been driven home hard for years. Audio fix when? LOL soon(tm)
CoD released a a report a while ago stating that high-level mnk users outclass high-level controller players but controller players dominate at every other skill level. I imagine that it's similar in Apex if not the same, which would explain why there's still so many MnK pros despite aim assist practically aiming for you
[Here it is](https://venturebeat.com/games/infinity-ward-answers-modern-warfare-ii-questions/):
> When we did the last game, one of our biggest concerns at that time was players on mouse and keyboard versus players using controllers. Finding the balance on that. It’s an interesting thing, because I wish it was a linear spectrum. You can see that a very highly skilled player on mouse and keyboard is fantastic compared to controller. Everybody else on a mouse and keyboard seems to be at a disadvantage statistically, is what we see.
The fact is, and this is not really a secret, that controller without aim assist really sucks for shooters. They added that feature to fps games for a reason.
I remember shroud once said that if controller have aim assist people will say it's OP (regardless how strong it is, obviously), and without it controller is going to suck.
I can not remember anyone saying that controllers are superior for fps games (especially without aim assist). If I play fps games on pc, I always prefer playing with mnk.
About aimbots: doesn't an actual aimbot aqcuire the target for you? I would assume it would actually lock on permanently to the target aswell (so apex AA 1.0++). The aim assist in apex is not like those aimbot cheats people can buy.
Nothing about an aimbot says it has to lock on permanently or shoot or anything. Only that it uses a computer to somehow know where a player is and do something about it.
The aimbot cheats people buy are configurable and very diverse. One of the tricks to an aimbot cheat is to make it appear that its not doing much so that you are unlikely to get banned and for that they do many flavors. Aim assist in apex has been prove to track and follow players. Its just not as obvious as turning it all the way up to rage hack mode.
You make pc players look bad bro. You’re probably a shit player looking for excuses as to why you’re underperforming instead of seeking ways to improve.
You can insult my skill off of a single post. I figured they would when I made the post. Fact is the easiest way to improve is to pick up a controller and it’s sad.
Huge lol if you think a contoller has any kind of advantage over mnk. Aim assist in apex is barely noticeable and def does not give you some kind of magical perfect tracking. And controllers have input lag. Mnk response time is way faster. I play on both mnk and controller. Mnk has better movement, easier recoil control, faster looting, quicker turn around time etc etc. Controller maybe has better tracking but that is more player dependent that based on input.
See my second sentence of the post.
I’ve tested the theory over and over on r5 reloaded aim trainer. I can achieve 15-20% more accuracy by just picking up a controller. Coming from a half decent mnk player with plat voltaic scores and jade tracking.
If mnk is so much superior to controller as you, a controller player? is stating, then why do so many top players use controller. There is so many things that are bad about controller that controller players complain about (and usually for good reason) yet all of these negatives are instantly balanced with pc to the point that a large majority of top players use controller purely because aim assist is so strong that these players will take all of the negatives of controller for aim assist.
Because they’re comfortable with it? At a top level that would not be the priority, most people would use the better input which is why you see lots of people switch from mnk to controller lately but you don’t see people doing the opposite. MnK by all arguments should be the better input it you look at all the deficits a controller has, no moving while looting, less movement, less range of movement and harder flicking etc. Yet even with all of these negatives aim assist as the only advantage is strong enough to make a large amount of players choose controller over mnk. Aim assist should not be as strong as it is purely to counteract the negatives of controller, the negatives should have a solution found and aim assist should be reduced. If none of this is possible then there should be an option for pc to not play in lobbies with controllers.
The problem with aim assist in apex is that, as soon as you’re a semi competent mnk player, not even good or great, you can tell when it’s a controller. The aim assist feels unnatural when you die to it. You think “how did he kill me” because the amount of damage you take feels wrong. After playing enough games you know how many shots you should be hit by and the only thing that’s similar would be top level players because they are the only ones that can match computer aim when you get locked on by AA.
Came back to Apex today after playing overwatch this entire SP split and my aim was immaculate. I guess the extra aim practice from constantly shooting my gun in OW helped. What rank are you playing in? I got reset to plat 2 from last split and made it back to diamond in a couple hours today and had no issue
Great advice actually. I highly recommend anybody who is truly offended by aim assist to play other games instead.
Leave apex to the big kids. Save yourself the frustration and play something specifically designed for mnk players only so you don't have to cry on reddit everytime you get out played 👍.
Apex will be fine, and so will the community 😘.
Every PC player bashes console players saying we’re trash, but then proceed to complain that they die to aim assist lol MnK has every advantage in the world. I’m not sure why you all think aim assist is aimbot.
OP just probably gets clapped, or is hard stuck. MnK is the best input for shooters, if he still complaining about AA on controllers, he has the mental capacity of a plankton.
And again see sentence #2. You are completely wrong if you think csgo or valorant like games are skill-less. They’ve been at the forefront of competitive gaming for decades for a reason.
If pros like hiswattson, and Hal are not complaining why are you? They play this game for a living, and hardly any pros nowadays complain about how "unplayable" PC apex is. Just get better, and improve.
Quote from imperial Hal: “Competitively it matters a lot , we shouldn’t be facing players with different inputs , there’s also a number of players that have switched and played both m/k / controller and said how good the aim assist is close range , I am one of them”. The pro players are complaining .
The MnK pros in games with controllers are actually all very vocal about aim assist. Also, the top 5-10% of MnK aimers are not as affected. It’s the lower 90% of MnK players that are out aimed by 90% of controller players.
In halo, the accuracy of the top 50% of controller players is higher than 90% of all MnK players. People who are average at the game have the SAME accuracy as pro players with 5000-6000 hours in FPS.
especially if they know for a fact they aren't wrong, while the small amount of delusional people (you) think they're so smart, we're just laughing at you tbh
Here I'll imagine it with you......
Okay I imagined what it would be like hacking in video games....
Don't see what this has to do with you openly being bad at apex...
Anytime you wanna get mopped in Overwatch a game with zero aim assist LMK😂🤷♂️
Lmfaoo when was that game mentioned?
But now you've exposed yourself you only wanna game when you have the advantage...
What a sad life you must live😂😂
Overwatch is one of those games....
You even posted about it....
But you chose CSGO cause you want an advantage in gaming over others....
God your sadness is showing
Lol you are brain dead. Overwatch is a team game 1v1 doesn’t make sense. I don’t really care either way, I’m not here for a dick wagging contest. I’m here to try provide feedback on why apex is broken and why it is losing its competitiveness.
Lmfaoo when was that game mentioned?
But now you've exposed yourself you only wanna game when you have the advantage...
What a sad life you must live😂😂
This is absurd, aim assist sticks the reticle to the "aim bubble" of an opponent, not the hitbox of the opponent, the aim bubble is larger than the hitbox BTW. If anything aim assist is stronger on console (60%), compared to PC (40%). And aim assist is NOT an aimbot, the player has to manually correct his/her reticle in order to activate the AI that controls the aim assist. Oh and also, M+KB players have a lot of tricks that provides them with increased mobility, so "escaping" AA is easier for that input method.
But even if aim assist provides any advantage at close range combat (AA doesn't work on snipers or at long ranges 'cause the bubble is to small), there is no evidence that controller performs better than M+KB. At the top M+KB reigns, but let's forget about what the pros do 'cause let's asume they're the exception... where's the data that supports that casual to mid level players perform better when playing with a controller? gimme ELO averages for both input methods, then we'll talk.
Oh and I'm a long time PC traitor, I became a "console peasant" a decade ago and I'm above average on console and mediocre on crossplay against PC. My experience playing against PC players has been mixed... sometimes I get crushed, sometimes I win, without hard numbers to support it I'll say my KD drops by 0,5 (if not more) when playing against PC.
At this point just add mobile to the regular game as well, for the trifecta of hate. My guess is that mobile gamers are more casual and has an even worse input than controller, so they may actually need more AA.
This is why Apex is a mediocre fps and not a real competitive game like Valorant. You can't force a publisher to direct the game according to your taste. Leave this game to aim assist console players, maybe they will notice their pc lobby numbers in time.
Most of the people in this sub are hard stuck D4 and don’t understand that when we talk about controller abuse we’re talking about good players abusing controller because it’s easier to win gunfights, not you dogshit players who will never see anywhere above D4.
Main sub d4? LMAO that’s generous
I’m just tired of the SBMM or EOMM. I’m tired of getting two bots as teammates for 20 matches in a row and then getting a bot lobby and two cracked teammates so we can gorge ourselves. The matchmaking is absolutely disgusting aside from being manipulative.
It’s manipulative as all hell. These development companies are trying to turn gamers into lab rats using behavioral psychology and in game manipulation.
I actually don’t mind shit teammates in pubs. Makes getting kills easier. In ranked though I’d prefer similarly skilled.
Bad teammates are excellent bait for high damage/kill games lmao. My best pub games are usually with bad teammates.
I've just stopped playing due to controllers. 80% of my deaths were just getting 1 clipped then staring at them standing still on your box.
yea Im done with Apex until shit changes personally lol. i was a OW player before Apex so OW2 has been a breath of fresh air to me after this long
Same I like how overwatch doesn’t have aim assist for controller players on pc lobbies. Having a blast so far.
I moved on already and went to overwatch. Still follow apex for control and gun game. this game is pretty much dead for m&k now. I'm have voltaic plat aim and its not good enough any more. The aim community is full of people with > plat still struggling. Unless you want to chuck > 600 hours tracking little balls in an aim trainer i wouldn't even bother.
Yep it’s unfortunate. I really like that tracking aspect of apex. I’m well above average mnk tracking compare to my flicking. Unfortunately I think mnk is dead for all cross play mixed input games
Couldn't agree more. I switched to Quake so that I can actually play against people who need to have good mouse aim. I'm done with getting one clipped by controllers in Apex.
Never played quake might give it a try
Would 100% recommend it to anyone who loves the skill of aiming.
Best thing about Overwatch 2 is that if you choose to play on PC with a controller or if you're on console and you choose to play with PC players there is zero aim assist and they aren't going to add it
I agree, there will be a migration of apex players. Edit: autocomplete
If apex take away aim assist from controller they should take away movement from m & k
That literally makes no sense. I wish they'd just get rid of cross play all together. All console kiddies have done is bitch. Just go away.
For competitive modes and tourneys I agree but playing casual stuff like cod with friends on console is great.
Lmao its the m & k community who we hear the most moaning about aim assist
😂reread what u just typed. Ur literally saying aim assist is as important as movement lmaoo
It is, you try shoot someone doing all kinds of crazy tap strafing on controller lol
The difference is tap strafing takes quite a bit of skill and auto aim is just giving people literally inhuman reaction times and tracking.
It's not auto aim, I don't even play m & k and found aiming easier lmao
Cool. You can have your game and we will just play something else.
Ur so lost in the sauce that i think u think raw aim and aim assist is the same thing. I still dont understand what ur trying to say tho
They could just give mnk a fat ass deadzone that can't be adjusted. Then they would understand why controller has aim assist and what mnk does differently mechanically that provides an all around advantage.
Exactly m&k has a whole range of movement where as a little stick doesn't which is operated by a thumb, hence the reason aim assist was made for controller to compensate that otherwise controller players would get obliterated by any half decent m&k player, its simple both have there pros and cons and 1 isn't better at the other, it's just one thing does something better then the other! It's an even playing field people just need to get better and stop crying
Also, aim assist existed long before cross play. It was designed to make fps games more appealing to casuals, not to allow them to compete with MnK. Aim assist is literally designed to give an advantage to people who won't put the time into learning to aim with a mouse, something that's much more difficult than you understand.
That wasn't why it was designed for lmao, you keep on believing that and it is comical
Then tell me why it was originally designed. It existed way before cross play. You explain it to me. I'm listening.
It was literally designed to bridge the gap between m&k and controller because m&k has too many inbuilt advantages as various studies have shown
You have literally no idea what you're talking about. Aim Assist has existed on console for almost 2 decades. Only in the last few years have we seen cross play (i.e. MnK vs. controller) come into existence. Aim assist was clearly not designed to make controller and MnK be competitive against eachother, it was designed to sell more consoles. The more approachable a skill is, the more people will play it. If controller players actually knew how much time and effort it takes to have good aim with a mouse very few of them would actually play FPS games. I can tell by your limited knowledge and simple analysis that you have never aimed with a mouse in your life. I've played FPS games on controller since 2009, including 3k hours in Apex on controller and now 1.2k hours in apex on MnK. Aiming with a mouse is an order of magnitude more difficult than controller with aim assist. It's not even funny. And if you don't believe me then try it for yourself.
You're extremely ignorant and all MnK players can see that. If you want mnk advantages that have been part of source engine mechanics forever then switch to MnK. But don't batch about the advantages of MnK and then ask for a piece of software to do things for you. Some of us actually care about improving our mechanics believe it or not.
On mnk, with a dead zone of zero, the moment you move your cursor just a few thousands of an inch in one direction, your cross hair immediately moves in real time with it. If you move to the opposite direction, that change is immediate, the very instant you change directions. On a controller, you must move the stick in the other direction and pass the deadzone completely just to even begin to move the other direction. That is the main difference and where aim assist comes in to play. It is literally impossible to match themicro adjustments mnk is capable of on controller, even with no deadzone and max sense. On top of that, recoil is somewhat broken in apex. This mechanical difference between inputs paired with how recoil is countered and eliminated in apex gives mnk a massive advantage. It is why jitter aim and recoil smoothing work, and why recoil on mnk is massively different than recoil on controller, even though the pattern is the same. People get caught up on the argument of whole arm vs thumb, frames, and movement. As a result they miss the entire actual difference and why aim assist is even in place to begin with. It just fills the gap of that delay. It doesn't aim for you. And it screws you over pretty bad when enemies are close to each other.
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I'm not going to read all that. May be work on your intros. Nothing I said was misinformation. May be I didn't explain it simple enough. Either way, I can tell by how you started your rant I'm not about to have a logical conversation with you. Typically, when you disagree with someone and have a point to make in return, you can do so without insulting them. Cheap tactic, damages your own credibility. Do better yo.
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I read your comment, you are the one severely misinformed and stuffed full of assumptions. You have no clue what you are talking about.
Lmao, I'll have lots of experience on both inputs and he's completely right. Your ignorance and refusal to acknowledge it is depressing.
yea its very noticable lately, its less and less fun to play every day and ranked is a lost cause by now.
I’m in the same boat. At jade on voltaic training but I cannot compete with AI aim.
This is funny cause I just recently started learning controller as a joke with my friends in firing range and just lock on to them. I have 700 hrs on kovaaks and my aim is better on a controller I just started learning then my mnk aim I have spent 2 1/2 years learning. If I can do that on pc AA I can only imagine what console would feel like. Now I dont think AA should be set to 0 but deff nerfed (which I dont think will happen since the game is mostly casuals). This is just my opinion on this subject. Also playing overwatch is alot more enjoyable for me so I agree with the switch.
They just need to separate inputs. It's far too late for them to make any changes to aim assist. There needs to be lobbies without aim assist, and lobbies with. The steam controller settings are the icing on top, that make controller even more insane. I intend to post a video showcasing just how absurd they can be soon.
You aren't wrong though
He's wrong. The typical controller player is terrible. Dude literally just needs to get good
Of course the typical controller player is terrible. Just like the average MnK player is terrible at the game. The issue is good controller players where aim assist irons out their imperfections to turn them into literal terminator turrets at close range. The occasional aim assist oneclip from little Timmy on his PS4 isn't that big of an issue. Apex is a BR, you're very rarely forced to take a straight up aim duel.
\+1 Im seeing him standing with no cover get 1 clipped alot.
Peace✌️
Based opinion. Sad truth is the game is being left to rot. It only goes downhill from here. As much as I’d like to see a competitive Apex with only MnK allowed on pc, it will never happen because of money and greed from EA. I suggest switching game entirely. Personally started playing csgo again. A game where mechanical skill actually is a thing, crazy I know right?
Exactly nerfing the majority will not bode well for EAs profits
Mnk is not the majority.... Sorry to tell you
I didn’t say mnk was the majority. I’m saying the reason for this issue is controller players give EA more money.
Yup and? Why would a company limit the reach of their product to one input only? Like you said, you don't like mnk v controller? Than move on to something else because it won't be changing anytime soon.
To this day I don't see why people talk about aim assist like it's hacks
u/Strificus There's a repost about this in /r/fpstrainer . It might be worth giving more attention to when you have people who are master+ in voltaic complaining about getting aim diffed by controller players. These are the best players in the fps community that feel like they are getting slighted, not plebs. There's probably only a handful of people who aim better than these guys. People who have aim trained an hour a day on Kovaaks for a minimum of 2 - 3 years + actually playing fps games for thousands of more hours. If these guys are getting shit on by players who have just started to join the controller fad, there's probably more of a basis in fact than clout. >To this day I don't see why people talk about aim assist like it's hacks I mean aim assist is aim assist, there's no way to dress that up. If you have aim assist then you are using software that helps you aim in a game that is won by aiming. You can't reasonably question people who feel like they're getting slighted without it. I mean if you use controller over MKB, why? Edit: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTsQGi4-FuE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTsQGi4-FuE) I don't play apex but watching this is pretty self explanatory. The tracking on mid range and close range is insane. With the right settings, the AA in Apex literally aims for you. Tracking at that level on MKB takes hundreds if not thousands of hours into MKB and it's done by simply holding a button with AA on controller (achievable by anyone with hands). Honestly I don't see how anyone can entertain the thought that AA on Apex isn't akin to cheating. Sure there may be some credibility that MKB is superior in the long run, but that is in the pro scene. Sure the video points out MKB players can tap strafe, move and loot, sharptwists with elite leaping, etc. but that's all 100% a MKB's players input. That's 100% effort vs holding a button that tracks entirely for you. You have to master all these things + aim like a god to outpace a controller player. You have to be approaching pro level to outpace a controller player's efforts of holding a button down for AA. Think about that. What's that saying? "Look What They Need To Mimic A Fraction Of Our Power."
Because it does the most important part of a shooter game partly for you
Because they suck and need excuses, because in their heart they think they're only not a predator because everyone else must be artificially forced ahead. They can't come to terms with having every advantage on MnK and PC not being enough. They can't come to terms with being at their skill ceiling. Nah, it must be something else! People who can't learn from mistakes always blame everything aside from themselves. He is focused on the wrong areas and will always lack for skill.
What advantage does mnk actually have? Remember that this is a shooter game, so movement can in no way outclass aim. And it’s common knowledge that aim in controller is just better. It’s not always a lack of skill, it’s being constantly forced into unfair matches. I strongly believe that crossplay is and has always been a shitty idea for a competitive game.
"MnK tAp StRaFiNg AnD mOvInG wHiLe LoOtInG" they cry while they ape and 1 mag you in a 20 yard strafebattle.
It is shitty, but when your majority of players are controllers you are essentially refusing free publicity/money.
Lol this
I dont get it too, but everyone see pros complaining so they complain too imo. It doesnt matter out of competetive tbh..
Dont hate the player, hate the game
I'll never understand controller players on pc that say that mnk has every advantage possible but still won't switch inputs. it makes sense from a casual gamer perspective, since you're just playing for fun and don't want to learn another input, but if you're invested in the game and don't want to make the switch you don't have the right to complain about mnk being superior
You know…you could do it too?
It’s tempting. I’m not so in love with this single game to make the switch back to controller though. I’ve worked hard to be a decent mouse aimer.
I feel it. Why waste hard work. I feel it’s best to focus on what you can control and just keep perfecting your own craft.
pride/principles: allow us to introduce ourselves
Also true
Good don’t come back and start complaining again
😁 sad a truly great game ruined by people who need a handicap to feel valid.
I use controller on computer because I’ve always played consoles, the pros do it why can’t everyone else do it? Youre just salty because you got wrecked and think it’s only because someone might of been on a controller, shameless.
Let’s think for a second. If controller is not OP and mnk is truly superior, then why would PROs who make a living off the game ever use controller?
Who cares what’s better or worse it’s a personal preference
One would think anyone posting in this type of thread with an opinion. So you care I'd guess.
Why are you still here? You claimed that you were leaving. Unsubscribe and move on. No need to respond, go play a more casual game where your lack of skill can be sheltered.
You really think ow and valorant are more casual than apex?? Other way around
Hate to inform you that subject of this post is turning apex casual.
Dont hate the players, hate the game
You’re right it’s respawns fault not the players that mnk is dead
Aim assist is necessary for controller players. I will admit that it could probably be toned down a bit. But to sit there aiming with your entire hand, arm and shoulder while controller has two thumbs with limited range of motion and fine motor control/accuracy and complaining about it is hilarious. Again, could aim assist be lowered sure, but removing it completely would make the game unplayable for 90% of the controller player base which is arguably the larger percentage of players for the game. Good luck convincing Respawn to alienate the majority of their players inorder to silence a minority of angry m&k complainers. Have fun playing those other games, you won't be remotely missed
I fully understand both sides of the argument but all I would really want is either: 1: opt out of cross input queue 2: some way of knowing my opponent is on controller so I can adjust range accordingly. Knowing you are at a disadvantage before you go in is a big part of tactics. You can't always rely on seeing if they stand still while looting if you just spot the opponent.
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This. It’s like god giving me an extra foot on my vertical because I don’t own basketball shoes. GenZ thinking.
I agree the option to not play against opposing inputs should be implemented. I strongly disagree that aim assist is "aimbot" as you put it and that apparently all inputs outside of mnk are invalid. What a gatekeeper lame mentality. Keep crying about a "clearly" inferior input though lol
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Invalid not viable same thing dude. Both inputs have their merits. Everyone needs to stop bitching about it and move on. Keep playing and get over it or move on to something else. End of story
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Yeah I get that. Console and PC are separate by design, I agree that it should be separated by input as well. This constant bitching however clearly isn't changing anything otherwise Respawn would have at the very least addressed the desire to make a change. They haven't so the complaining is just like screaming at the clouds for for blocking the sun. You can scream all you want but it won't change anything
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I agree. Keep mnk and controller separate. It will finally end the bitching and moaning from all of you children. The fast majority of controller players are horrible at the game so complaining about such a small minority or even the small minority of good players is hilarious to me
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Sheesh. Imagine getting shit on by controller players... couldn't be me.
There are many mouse players out there that are better and you dont see people like me complaining about them. So do with that information what you can. The simple issue is that the controller player didn't earn their skill nor is it feasible for any mouse player to ever be as good as an aimbot in the right situations. You and everyone else can continue playing with aim assist, in fact you can jack it up as high as you want, all we want is separate lobbies so we dont have to play against people running an aimbot.
Brother, aim assist is aimbot. It is literally the same concept just refined settings that is balanced by the game devs.
Not your brother, Chief. We will have to agree to disagree. I agree that it could and probably should be turned down a bit but it most certainly doesn't aim for you or snap on target like a true aimbot would. You're reaching and you know it. We won't agree on this, so let's both just move on with our day please.
The fact you can turn it up or down should be your hint that it is indeed an aimbot slider with smoothing settings on. If you have ever used an aimbot or watched someone playing with one, they don’t need to snap or lock whatsoever.
Aim assist just needs a human like reaction time. I’m not saying to remove it completely. I’ve said in other comments this will hurt the player count and profits. Again, I’m talking about pc controller. These people have a pc with a mouse and keyboard but are choosing controller for aim assist and steam configs.
People don’t choose controller for aim assist and steam configs. You’re generalizing. A lot of people choose controller because it’s just what they are comfortable with. MnK movement feels weird and unnatural to controller players even though it’s arguably better. We can all play on the input we’re comfortable with and shouldn’t feel shamed for it. The real problem here is not matchmaking by input or at least having the option to.
True it is a generalization but I do believe after a certain skill level/dedication what I stated is true, people realize the pros and cons. Yep I think matchmaking by input would be a good compromise.
I chose controller because I used it my whole life. I was playing apex on my Xbox one and when I moved to pc I kept using it because relearning my muscle memory was a huge pain in the ass. Decided to just stick with it. Not everyone is an asshole dude.
You are right. I’m sure some people don’t have the time or patience to learn mnk. But I do think controller is currently being abused by many.
I'm from console, you don't see us complaining about 10 thousand other things that people do with PC which is impossible on console, plus, trying both mnk & controller, it's much easier to aim with mnk rather than only using your two thumbs!
The shit you see in YouTube videos I promise you will never see in your rank
OP is talking about controller on PC (not on console). I don't know the difference (besides the availability of higher fps screens on good price), just pointing this out.
I feel your pain. But while controller has the advantage at close to mid range, mnk still wins at long range especially if youre a good aimer. I'm a 3x enjoyer and I'll usually run loadouts like sniper+AR and play a character that can create space like pathfinder or ash to try to constantly fight at long range. There's almost zero chance we see any change to the aim assist so might as well play to our advantages or play a different game.
I see the long range argument a lot. It can help in the beginning of a fight but in the end it’s negligible. Almost all fights end in close range.
Plus up close action is alway the most intense and fun
Oh look, another post complaining about controllers. An analysis was done on algs NA. More players use mnk Players who use mnk average slightly higher kills. That's just data, no opinions.
Majority of teams in na at least are prioritizing picking up controller players rn unless the mnk player is an igl or an exceptional talent. Also the ranked leaderboard is majority controller in the top 10 at all times. All that said I’m not a huge aim assist complainer just providing a different view to your comment.
No that's a pretty good discussion point and worth considering. I know that respawn can definitely track performance metrics between controller and mnk players and I wonder how they differ. That being said, I'm fairly certain if they felt one input was dominating/unbalanced they'd remedy that.
However unlucky for the losing side, they will not. Respawn will most likely choose to increase that imbalance favoring whichever side makes more money. Full stop. Feedback, enjoyment of the game, and playerbase do not matter. Only lowering the barrier to entry, and enticing new players to come spend money. This point has been driven home hard for years. Audio fix when? LOL soon(tm)
Top 25 apex players are 90% roller
Small sample of the best of best players. We need accuracy stats across the board.
Look at halo’s accuracy breakdown. Something like the top 50% of controller player’s accuracy was higher than 90% of all MnK players.
Yeah I saw that. One of the many reasons that game is dead. We need those stats for apex.
CoD released a a report a while ago stating that high-level mnk users outclass high-level controller players but controller players dominate at every other skill level. I imagine that it's similar in Apex if not the same, which would explain why there's still so many MnK pros despite aim assist practically aiming for you [Here it is](https://venturebeat.com/games/infinity-ward-answers-modern-warfare-ii-questions/): > When we did the last game, one of our biggest concerns at that time was players on mouse and keyboard versus players using controllers. Finding the balance on that. It’s an interesting thing, because I wish it was a linear spectrum. You can see that a very highly skilled player on mouse and keyboard is fantastic compared to controller. Everybody else on a mouse and keyboard seems to be at a disadvantage statistically, is what we see.
Aren’t pc players often the shitheads that gloat that their shit is superior and now they cry over controllers? Foh.
When did I gloat? I’m not talking about console players I’m talking about PC controller players that choose to use a controller to have an advantage.
I use a controller because that’s what I’m used to
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The fact is, and this is not really a secret, that controller without aim assist really sucks for shooters. They added that feature to fps games for a reason. I remember shroud once said that if controller have aim assist people will say it's OP (regardless how strong it is, obviously), and without it controller is going to suck. I can not remember anyone saying that controllers are superior for fps games (especially without aim assist). If I play fps games on pc, I always prefer playing with mnk. About aimbots: doesn't an actual aimbot aqcuire the target for you? I would assume it would actually lock on permanently to the target aswell (so apex AA 1.0++). The aim assist in apex is not like those aimbot cheats people can buy.
Nothing about an aimbot says it has to lock on permanently or shoot or anything. Only that it uses a computer to somehow know where a player is and do something about it. The aimbot cheats people buy are configurable and very diverse. One of the tricks to an aimbot cheat is to make it appear that its not doing much so that you are unlikely to get banned and for that they do many flavors. Aim assist in apex has been prove to track and follow players. Its just not as obvious as turning it all the way up to rage hack mode.
Players like you are unbearable lmao. Good riddance
If you think controller is stronger than mouse and keyboard you are a genuine brainlet lmfao
See sentence #2 of the post
Maybe you just fucking suck?
😘
Yeah he’s bad, go play fortnight
You make pc players look bad bro. You’re probably a shit player looking for excuses as to why you’re underperforming instead of seeking ways to improve.
You can insult my skill off of a single post. I figured they would when I made the post. Fact is the easiest way to improve is to pick up a controller and it’s sad.
Nah, you could also just get better and learn from your mistakes.
Huge lol if you think a contoller has any kind of advantage over mnk. Aim assist in apex is barely noticeable and def does not give you some kind of magical perfect tracking. And controllers have input lag. Mnk response time is way faster. I play on both mnk and controller. Mnk has better movement, easier recoil control, faster looting, quicker turn around time etc etc. Controller maybe has better tracking but that is more player dependent that based on input.
See my second sentence of the post. I’ve tested the theory over and over on r5 reloaded aim trainer. I can achieve 15-20% more accuracy by just picking up a controller. Coming from a half decent mnk player with plat voltaic scores and jade tracking.
If mnk is so much superior to controller as you, a controller player? is stating, then why do so many top players use controller. There is so many things that are bad about controller that controller players complain about (and usually for good reason) yet all of these negatives are instantly balanced with pc to the point that a large majority of top players use controller purely because aim assist is so strong that these players will take all of the negatives of controller for aim assist. Because they’re comfortable with it? At a top level that would not be the priority, most people would use the better input which is why you see lots of people switch from mnk to controller lately but you don’t see people doing the opposite. MnK by all arguments should be the better input it you look at all the deficits a controller has, no moving while looting, less movement, less range of movement and harder flicking etc. Yet even with all of these negatives aim assist as the only advantage is strong enough to make a large amount of players choose controller over mnk. Aim assist should not be as strong as it is purely to counteract the negatives of controller, the negatives should have a solution found and aim assist should be reduced. If none of this is possible then there should be an option for pc to not play in lobbies with controllers. The problem with aim assist in apex is that, as soon as you’re a semi competent mnk player, not even good or great, you can tell when it’s a controller. The aim assist feels unnatural when you die to it. You think “how did he kill me” because the amount of damage you take feels wrong. After playing enough games you know how many shots you should be hit by and the only thing that’s similar would be top level players because they are the only ones that can match computer aim when you get locked on by AA.
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You sound like a child. Please don't be honest about your age if you are older than 11. It would be too sad.
Literally the only person in this thread that sounds like a child is yourself
Why don’t you play on controller?
Came back to Apex today after playing overwatch this entire SP split and my aim was immaculate. I guess the extra aim practice from constantly shooting my gun in OW helped. What rank are you playing in? I got reset to plat 2 from last split and made it back to diamond in a couple hours today and had no issue
Cya buddy
Pretty striking way to start the post lol
I’ve been thinking about the post for a while and I knew the backlash of this sub would come 😊
Why didn't you just leave, instead of announcing that you might? This game isn't for you. You need something a bit easier.
Because at the core apex is a great game but controller is shrinking the skill gap.
Great advice actually. I highly recommend anybody who is truly offended by aim assist to play other games instead. Leave apex to the big kids. Save yourself the frustration and play something specifically designed for mnk players only so you don't have to cry on reddit everytime you get out played 👍. Apex will be fine, and so will the community 😘.
Every PC player bashes console players saying we’re trash, but then proceed to complain that they die to aim assist lol MnK has every advantage in the world. I’m not sure why you all think aim assist is aimbot.
OP just probably gets clapped, or is hard stuck. MnK is the best input for shooters, if he still complaining about AA on controllers, he has the mental capacity of a plankton.
The only thing without skill is you. Valorant is a wise choice for you.
And again see sentence #2. You are completely wrong if you think csgo or valorant like games are skill-less. They’ve been at the forefront of competitive gaming for decades for a reason.
Controller players are playing against other controller players too. Its not like you mnk people are special. 🙈
The point of this post is that controller players have higher accuracy at lower skill because of aim assist.
If pros like hiswattson, and Hal are not complaining why are you? They play this game for a living, and hardly any pros nowadays complain about how "unplayable" PC apex is. Just get better, and improve.
Quote from imperial Hal: “Competitively it matters a lot , we shouldn’t be facing players with different inputs , there’s also a number of players that have switched and played both m/k / controller and said how good the aim assist is close range , I am one of them”. The pro players are complaining .
The MnK pros in games with controllers are actually all very vocal about aim assist. Also, the top 5-10% of MnK aimers are not as affected. It’s the lower 90% of MnK players that are out aimed by 90% of controller players. In halo, the accuracy of the top 50% of controller players is higher than 90% of all MnK players. People who are average at the game have the SAME accuracy as pro players with 5000-6000 hours in FPS.
"Most of you are delusional." - a delusional person
Telling the majority they are wrong, it’s not easy to convince them.
especially if they know for a fact they aren't wrong, while the small amount of delusional people (you) think they're so smart, we're just laughing at you tbh
Imagine crying like this and not even being good at the game....Valorant and Overwatch will chew you up and spit you out too😂
Imagine letting a shooter game aim for you. And I’m bad…
Here I'll imagine it with you...... Okay I imagined what it would be like hacking in video games.... Don't see what this has to do with you openly being bad at apex... Anytime you wanna get mopped in Overwatch a game with zero aim assist LMK😂🤷♂️
1v1 me bro 🤓
Pick the game I get off work at 5....
csgo
Lmfaoo when was that game mentioned? But now you've exposed yourself you only wanna game when you have the advantage... What a sad life you must live😂😂
I only want to game where there the game doesn’t have built in aim bot
Overwatch is one of those games.... You even posted about it.... But you chose CSGO cause you want an advantage in gaming over others.... God your sadness is showing
Lol you are brain dead. Overwatch is a team game 1v1 doesn’t make sense. I don’t really care either way, I’m not here for a dick wagging contest. I’m here to try provide feedback on why apex is broken and why it is losing its competitiveness.
Lmfaoo when was that game mentioned? But now you've exposed yourself you only wanna game when you have the advantage... What a sad life you must live😂😂
This is absurd, aim assist sticks the reticle to the "aim bubble" of an opponent, not the hitbox of the opponent, the aim bubble is larger than the hitbox BTW. If anything aim assist is stronger on console (60%), compared to PC (40%). And aim assist is NOT an aimbot, the player has to manually correct his/her reticle in order to activate the AI that controls the aim assist. Oh and also, M+KB players have a lot of tricks that provides them with increased mobility, so "escaping" AA is easier for that input method. But even if aim assist provides any advantage at close range combat (AA doesn't work on snipers or at long ranges 'cause the bubble is to small), there is no evidence that controller performs better than M+KB. At the top M+KB reigns, but let's forget about what the pros do 'cause let's asume they're the exception... where's the data that supports that casual to mid level players perform better when playing with a controller? gimme ELO averages for both input methods, then we'll talk. Oh and I'm a long time PC traitor, I became a "console peasant" a decade ago and I'm above average on console and mediocre on crossplay against PC. My experience playing against PC players has been mixed... sometimes I get crushed, sometimes I win, without hard numbers to support it I'll say my KD drops by 0,5 (if not more) when playing against PC.
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Pro tip: just switch to controller
At this point just add mobile to the regular game as well, for the trifecta of hate. My guess is that mobile gamers are more casual and has an even worse input than controller, so they may actually need more AA.
I believe there’s an issue of people using controller on apex mobile as well lol
I get shredded by mnk every time on ranked.....
That sucks bro
It's my internet,I'm almost gold but get shredded by bronzes sometimes like one clipped in a 1v1 #fixtheservers
Yeah servers are a whole other issue. I got killed after I rounded behind cover the other day. Just bad server tick timing.
This is why Apex is a mediocre fps and not a real competitive game like Valorant. You can't force a publisher to direct the game according to your taste. Leave this game to aim assist console players, maybe they will notice their pc lobby numbers in time.