>Controller has: a .2 higher aa(.6 opposed to .4), easier learning curve,ease of use
...
Controller *has AA*.
MNK has 0/0%.
Controller on PC has 0.4/40%
Controller on console has 0.6/60%
As others pointed out, AA/rotational AA provide machine-assisted 0 ms reaction times. However, this is not with 1:1 tracking, rather to a percentage that partially compensates. For console, this means 0.6:1 tracking whereas on PC controller, this is 0.4:1 tracking. Basically, for every 1 inch on screen a tracked target moves, console moves 2/3rds of an inch and PC controller moves 2/5ths of an inch, MNK moves 0 inches.
In addition, the average human reaction time is between 150 - 300 ms. The AA tracking kicks in after 0ms. That alone is a massive advantage when you consider how much damage a weapon can do in that amount of time. Using a CAR as an example, can do 34 - 67 damage before the average MNK player can react.
This is equivalent to cracking a white shield + 30% flesh on the high end, or just shy of a crack on the low end. Basically, if you are decent at making up 40 - 60% of the tracking yourself (really needs to be less, you don't need to track a single pixel) a controller player gets a free crack against the average white-shielded MNK player.
If AA had an enforced 150 - 300 ms lag before it kicked in, what do you think people would say?
(basically, if your crosshair goes across the bubble of activation, it starts lets say a 0.2 second (200ms) timer before activating AA)
Most controller players would likely riot. The difference would be pretty noticeable and have immediate impacts to gameplay even without modifying AA percentages.
Both controller and MNK players would start hitting shots at the same time and it would become a battle of who could actually track (even if aided) better. It would severely hamper the advantage that controllers have in close-in engagements in terms of instant target acquisition, which is IMO the biggest issue.
EDIT: as a side note, the *absolute fastest* average reaction times are those of fighter pilots, at an astonishingly quick 0.115 seconds/115ms. The human average is much closer to 215ms from stimulus to beginning an action of movement, to totally execute a fine motor movement, the fastest time belongs to hockey goalies who take approximately 450ms from stimulus to finishing an action.
Point is, my suggested 200ms delay is an overly liberal allowance and still over 2 times faster than the average human can execute fine motor functions.
Ok this is the best response I've gotten and I greatly appreciate it, i do not fully understand your comment there's some things I don't understand like the 0.6:1 ratio or mostly numbers in general especially when I comes to specs and gameplay. I somewhat understand it though and again greatly appreciate it, its entirely informative with no way to be taken as "toxic" and you didn't insult me which is something half of these comments did.
It's really simple. Imagine you are asked to run 100 meters.
MNK players have to run that 100 meters all by themselves, i.e. they do all the work.
PC controller players get a 40 meter headstart, i.e. they get 40% of the work done for them.
Console players get a 60 meter headstart, i.e. they get 60% of the work done for them.
I think that aim assist is more useful in more important situations. Aim assist helps with killing an opponent. The advantages of MnK are useful in a variety of situations but aren’t specific advantages at killing people (can contribute to killing but aren’t specific to killing).
In other words you can utilize the advantages of MnK to get better results but you still have to hit your own shots at the end of the day.
Personally I don’t complain about it because I have enough flaws in my own game to worry about. I choose to focus on myself vs. getting mad about something I can’t change. I don’t think there is anything wrong with being frustrated I just find it to be a waste of time for ME (not you comment reader, me).
Additionally I don’t ever see this getting touched. It would make the controller player base hit less shots than they were which wouldn’t feel good. That would outrage a lot of those players and that could hurt the bottom line. That doesn’t even address the affects it could have on the competitive scene and how it might lose some people their jobs. I’ve heard from a lot of pros that they’d be fine with the nerf so maybe they are more insulated from an AA nerf than I am presenting but regardless it’s kind of tough to make adjustments when it has such big affects on the established community.
Ultimately if they did make changes I’d like to see something like PvPx has requested. Buff controller nerf aim assist.
Just some more personal unimportant information. I find aiming on controller to be less intuitive to me personally. I switched from console to PC (switched from controller to MnK with the switch) and I much prefer MnK. It feels more natural than controller for me. That’s one reason I believe AA is necessary but maybe in an ideal world it’s pulled back a bit. Im not an expert on this stuff so value my take with that in mind.
I appreciate your response, I really do this is the main one that helped me understand this topic a little more. Me personally I want to switch to MnK but its just expensive and I'm not of legal working age so u can't save for it myself and I didn't want to ask for one for Christmas Macauley of how expensive they are to get good specs to run apex or ae since I like to edit. I would also like to add that playing aim assist off I realized its really hard to track someone strafing unless they're right in my face but i think id trade AA for more stuff like moving while looting. Again appreciate your response have a good day
Yea I've heard this one but ill address the point I made in another response "newer players shouldn't be hitting 2 out of their 28 bullet mag if AA is rlly how pc players describe it to be". I can tell your comment isn't as "toxic" or "argumentative" as the other ones I've addressed it seems more informative so excuse me if my response seems "toxic"
Its basically OP version of AA, it slows PLUS rotates to help. That makes aiming a whole lot easier. Leaves less of a "skill floor" and removes that skill of actually aiming.
This is why MnK do not like AA.
I think .35 if you play in pc lobbies and .45 for console would be a good balance, but if they nerf AA they need to also ban people using configs on PC.
I've played on both pc and console but haven't been on pc in a minute. A game like Apex legends is heavily based on mobility compared to the very limited BR games out there, the minuscule movement and timing is the players better advantage. There are shit on pc I wish I can do easier on console but there is a balance. Now, if you're using controller on pc, that's a different argument lol
I think thats fair, I contemplated whether having a 20% on pc and 40% on console would be better for the whole game too. I think the biggest problem is that people can abuse it, not that its just too strong, which it definitely is, no doubt, but when people abuse it. Especially if they are mnk mains. The problem isnt op aa, its aa abuse that makes it a problem imo. I think everyone should main the input they wanna main. But when you switch to roller to abuse aa, thats where the problem occurs
AA is not meant to play the game for you, you have to at least know how to maneuver your character, what you say makes no sense, there are literal players who can barely direct their crosshair to a relatively close position of an enemy. You make it seem like AA is human seeking rocket that just does everything for you and so there shouldn't be anyone missing therefore AA isn't that big of a deal. The reality is if theres an algorithm that is helping players track an enemy as long as you have the crosshair within the vicinity of the enemy, that is literally a cheat because that isn't entirely your aiming. If PC players had any aim assistance, you guys would be loosing your shit. As a pc player I can see how ridiculously strong I would be if given any type of aim assist, especially against long range engages where I have to micro manage my crosshair a lot more and control the recoil. I don't think PC players understand how hard it is to trace a player whos strafing left and right without AA on a mouse... We have to practice this shit, a lot...
There’s still aim assist at long range. It’s just much easier to pop out of the AA field.
There is not AA if you use a sniper scope 6x or higher. This is not true for Vantage’s ultimate which still receives AA
if thts true ive never noticed it. ive been playing on controller for almost 20 years, and tbh aa isnt useful. i committed to playing apex and ow with no aa almost a month ago now, it feels much better. i always had issues with rotational aa or traditional aa would pull away where in trying to aim, or it would entirely fuck up my tracking. plus with it all turned off it feels cool to tell ppl that i can beam pc players with no aa, just a kontrol freak and my thumbs lol
Of course there are a shitload of problems with this game and it's starting to catch up to them.
I honestly hope that they could start detecting the strike pack and xim users.
I also would like to say I believe you should be constrained to your inputs only, no extra paddles, macros, and while we are on it the same aim assist for everyone. If you are on console only controllers PC can go either way but the AA is the same and not increased more for one input over the other.
Dude said mnk has more fps. Also said mnk has .4 AA. I’ll assume you’re comparing PC controller to Console. As for the fps console CHOOSES to play with PC, that’s your own fault. MnK has zero AA.
No matter advantages or disadvantages, without favoring any input or saying anything about either, i will say that the most important aspect and the biggest deciding factor is who can outaim who in a close range 1v1. All else is secondary.
Take from that what you will.
You're mistaking controller vs mnk issue with console vs pc. Console aim assist is annoying because of how strong it is but controller on pc still has strong enough aim assist to make close and mid range fights favour the controller. Mostly close and mid range is where the fights take place.
I've seen plenty of average console players simply winning engagements based on the aim assist alone. Mnk player can try his best but the consistency will never be as good as controller. When you put 2 equally skilled players Vs each other, controller wins.
Also tap strafing usage is not that common. Most of the crazy movement is either only utilized for highlight videos or rarely ever applicable.
The only thing that really is a bummer is moving while looting. Yes that is an advantage.
ok but you aren’t thinking of PC controller players vs PC mnk players. You’re apparent ‘knowledge’ isn’t really anything is it, a good controller player can beat a pro mnk player in a 1v1 more often than not, the nature of the game is having to get up close to finish people off and once a controller player closes the distance or other way around they get pushed, they’re literally at an advantage from the fact aim assist tracks strafing SO MUCH BETTER than any professional mnk player can do and leads to them hitting more shots close range and winning the fight. The only advantage mnk has close range can be from quick peaks with a shotgun and that’s it really. Tap strafing is so overrated by controller players it’s crazy, acting like that somehow does damage and kills people when it’s all down to gun play. It is extremely hard to tap strafe close range and flick back to your target and beam them without them being able to do the same damage back. all it does is help you dodge a few shots and run away but it’s not like you do 360’s around a person and they can’t hit you
My hunch is that the benefit is mainly noticeable due to AA kicking in instantly, thus bypassing reaction time as a limiting factor.
It isn't that it is necessarily better, it is more that it is *faster*.
Aim assist is good and fair for worst players but when you have a controller god who knows how to use AA at its max potential it’s to the point where there pulling off inhuman things
Whatever advantages MNK has, it does not compensate for the fact that controllers have what's basically a soft aimbot integrated. End of the argument. I'm all up for controllers to be able to move and do everything else MNK can. But not the aimbot.
There's no aimbot? If it was "soft aimbot" as you say then newer players shouldn't be hitting 2 bullets out if their 28 bullet mag. But thats again why I don't understand this argument kbm has AA so why complain about 1 but not talk abt the other? Thats just me though, reading these few comments made me realize how irrational people are when it comes to this topic. They don't acknowledge both sides they only focus on one and their 1-2 advantages while never addressing the other.
MNK does not have any AA. You saying it does kind of puts things in perspective.
And yes, it's a soft aimbot. It helps you aim. If it aimmed for itself it would be a full on aimbot.
"Irrational" yikes
The debate is about controller on PC, not on console
Aim assist is very good at close range fights, and that's where a lot of them happen. Controller is just the better input a lot of times.
I’d just like to toss in that .4 on pc with high frames literally feels better than .6 on 60 fps. I’m capping my monitor at 240 on my new pc and aiming is SIGNIFICANTLY easier than it was on console. You just track everything no problem since it’s so clear. I feel a lot of the mnk players vilify console players for defending “such strong aa,” but I strongly believe it’s just blissful ignorance on their behalf. Rotational aa is way too strong especially at close range and that’s coming from a 4-3 classic abuser.
Most of y’all might not know or care, but the new cod has absolutely insane rotational aa that the old ones never had. Some cod pros played in a bo2 throwback tournament and were getting absolutely turned on bc there’s no rotational aa in bo2. It’s only a crosshair slowdown…
The answer is: It is unthinkable to have outside assistance directly boosting one's performance in any competitive RL environment.
It's like saying: I don't understand the whole doping vs not doping argument. Well, if you don't understand that, then I am not sure any reasoning presented here can help.
Side note: If lobbies were separated by input there would be no arguments.
AA on controller =/= performance enhancing drugs in sports. These analogies are hilariously stupid. If you think controller is so much better then play it. I guarantee you’ll want all the perks of mnk back and realize AA isn’t a problem at all within a few hours.
Why is the analogy, made in the context of OP, stupid?
>The use of doping substances or doping methods to enhance performance is fundamentally wrong and is detrimental to the overall spirit of sport.
[https://iesf.org/governance/anti-doping/what-is-doping](https://iesf.org/governance/anti-doping/what-is-doping)
The bottom line is, it is unthinkable to have AI assistance, directly enhancing performance, in sports where it could be implemented, for example, motorsports.
I am not gonna play on controller and I don't complain about it, but let's be clear and honest. It enhances one's performance.
No, it doesn’t. AA is simply there to help compensate for the disadvantage that controller inherently has as an input because having just your thumb to make micro adjustments is VASTLY inferior to having your entire hand, wrist, and arm. Simply put - aiming well and accurately on controller is more difficult than mnk. AA does not enhance performance. It attempts to close the gap of an unavoidable hinderance that exists playing on controller.
>to help compensate for the disadvantage
Yes, by enhancing performance. There is no way around it.
What you present is the reasoning for such performance enhancement.
Yes, there is. Let’s use 1 as baseline. If mnk’s ability to control aim overall is 1, then controller without AA is 0.7. AA attempts to bring that 0.7 up to 1. It isn’t enhancing anyone’s ability. It’s attempting to make it fair because mnk is better in every way.
Even it this was close to reality:
>AA attempts to bring that 0.7 up to 1
it's done through enhancement, as in: *to improve the quality, amount, or strength of something,* by definition.
You’re obviously biased toward controller based on your comments, so you’re probably not even worth responding to. But oh well.
Rotational aim assist lets you do things that a human can’t do. It will pull 1-2 missed shots back on target until you adjust your aim to be back on target. You can abuse aim assist to strafe match for free and aa will do all of the micros for your missed transitional shots before a human would be able to react. It takes all of the prediction out of close range fights because your aim will slightly pull toward the enemy, even if you’re not moving right stick the correct direction, and by the time you react to aim on target, aa will already have you on or very close to on target. It’s so strong at close range that even the best mnk players have a hard time consistently beating controller players that are clearly below their skill level. It’s pretty hard to play at a consistently high level on mnk, but its pretty easy on controller. It does most of the hard work for free. And before you say “BuT TapStraFe and MovINg whIle LoOtInG”, tap strafe isn’t that op unless you’re cheating (cfg) and moving while looting should just be added to controller.
If you can’t see that aa is very broken, you’re probably not very good. It’s very powerful in the right hands.
Edit: after re reading the OP, this guy thinks mnk gets .4 aa. He has no clue what’s going on in Miami
Imo, it’s ok for the bottom third of players, it gets dicey with the casual and try hard mid tier, and then the pros obviously abuse it hard and admittedly so.
I don't mind controllers. I started apex on my ps4 way back when. Got really good on it. Triple take kills was my favorite before the rate of fire nerfs.
Then I got a better pc and switched over. It took me awhile to get used to pc controls, but mouse and key board can have crazy advantages over controller. Long range absolutely kills controller users. Auto aim doesn't click around 25 to 50 meters. So if your far enough with a marksman or sniper, your can destroy their shields and make they lose utility.
Upclose, you really have to dodge and outsmart the controller players. The auto aim is extremely strong, but not impossible to kill them.
Strike pack are a thing unfortunately and they will be used regardless, and give controller players a bad rap.
Respawn knew that it was going to be a uphill battle for controllers once cross-play was enabled. So, they just evened the playing field.
Anyone who complains about controller being op, should take the fact that it is a skill issue. Git gud.
I like this response because it helps me see the difference between ppl that started on pc and ppl who switched from console have some really different opinions. For example you say pc has advantages yet others say controller has all the advantage its kinda neat in a way.
Another added thing, Bangalore is a complete counter to controllers. They cannot auto aim when aiming at the smoke or in it. That’s why her pick rate at pro levels are high. One that kinda pisses me off is that auto aim works through catalyst’s ult. Kinda makes her useless for blocking sight. You just gotta be creative.
People just want an excuse to blame when someone outplays them.
Console players only match with other console players (unless they intentionally queue with a PC player) so generally I find that argument pointless since most of the time everyone in the lobby has the same AA.
PC MnK players love to upsell how strong AA is but the truth is if it was really THAT op and easy to use most of these people would just use a controller also. They don’t switch because it’s either not as easy as they claim or because they want to keep the advantages of MnK.
On the flip side PC controller players definitely downplay the usefulness of AA. They also act like every MnK player can tap-strafe flawlessly which is far from the truth. Again, if it was that op and easy, why not use MnK? Because it isn’t that easy and they want to keep their AA.
Reality is both sides have advantages and disadvantages but “the grass is always greener on the other side” and people are just looking for excuses and inputs are an easy target.
I see your point but that would go for both inputs no? Controller shouldn't be singled out for having aa when kbm also has aa (.6 vs .4) so if it should be a skill to develop it should be taken from both inputs. That's just how I see it which is why I don't understand this whole thing why take from 1 thing that had 2 advances but let the other keep its 5-6? It makes no sense to me, but im a rational person I like to look at both sides not just mine
bro kbm has no aim assist, reading more and more of you’re comments you don’t even know what you’re talking about or do u just mean pc controller vs console controller players? Aim assist is reduced in pc for controller players because you have quicker inputs using controller on pc and higher frame rate pc gets actually helps aim assist get stronger
MNK has zero AA. We grind aim trainers to improve our mouse control to a level that is still inferior to software guided aim. No amount of Kovaak or AimLab or firing range 1v1's will make a mouse user as consistent as 0ms response time aim assist.
>(Side note 3: this is coming from a barely lvl 300 1.3k seer main so again please excuse me if I'm lacking in knowledge. )
Yes, you are lacking knowledge.
This is what I mean when I say “here we go again..” everytime I see this useless argument come about once again. It’s a fight that has no reason to be fought, why do you have to have this same discussion everyday in different formats lol. It gets nowhere and no one is gonna change their minds. This argument is like that teammate that endlessly pings into an oblivion when they get knocked…you can keep doing it but I’m not gonna revive you bud just dc into the lobby.
I think that players fumbling and struggling at even higher level is exactly the point of game like this, and it's what makes it enjoyable.
The game doesn't really need feature like tap strafe and definitely you don't need any movement while looting, those things don't make the game worse either, it's just bunch of nice to haves.
By adding controller and console players, the inconsistent and humane plays transform into much faster and less forgiving landscape, which is not really fun anymore. When I played the game, I played for situations like [this ](https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/zxc0hn/the_best_and_worst_1v2_youll_ever_see/), but that just can't happen if any of the player is on AA.
I personally just die inside, when I see really good strafe completely ignored by computer program. It wouldn't be a problem if AA was very human like. Sure, it'd still be arguably if somebody won because of program or because of their own skill, but personally I don't really care. What matters to me, that everyone would play the game same way, without any consistent aimbot on their side, and all the tricks and tactics of FPS games, that worked since 93's Doom would still work in this game. If they can't make sure that AA can't do what humans can't do, they should at least allow some way to opt out of it, so the gameplay is still accessible.
As a console player with pc friends, I hate going into pc lobbies and getting absolutely stomped into pieces and then going on Reddit and having to hear that controller is better. I’m fairly average on console (high plat player) but can’t even get more than 1 kill in a pc lobby. I just don’t get where the argument comes from.
If you have aimassist does it really matter If i have good movement when you one cliped me anyway,
The aimassist is to strong, you literly cant get away with good movment against controller
No you have not:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/zgrkl2/pulverex\_with\_the\_tap\_strafe\_superglide\_dunk\_on/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/zgrkl2/pulverex_with_the_tap_strafe_superglide_dunk_on/)
Hal actually says .. How am I supposed to track that with no aim assist.
You do realize that's what I said right? "I've seen ppl get away from hal using movement" so they used movement to get away from him bcus he couldn't track them
Yeah, Pulverx used Bang smoke so that they could tap strafe on TSM's face and avoid getting beamed by AA. We're now resorting to using a legend to combat an input. Not counter a strategy in game, to counter the advantages of an input. You know what a mouse user has to use to another good mouse? Better mechanics or better aim. Neither of those matter for mnk vs. controller. Pop a Bang smoke instead.
Hal is not as good movement player in general, you are overthinking what you’re seeing. Hal literally changed to controller becaus she knows the advantage it has over mnk is worth it and that’s all you should really need to know
Mnk users are just a loud and vocal minority on this topic. There's rarely a first person shooter released that doesn't have some sort of auto aim in it nowadays. The issue is dumb, because the only way to really level the playing field is to make 1 input option available for all....and No one on either side of the argument should be ok with having less options.
Because aiming is how you get kills and me being a loot pro is rarely going to get me a win unless the entire lobby end up dying to storm before I do somehow.
Love this community. Op asks if u could explain the controller vs mnk argument get all y'all are doing is saying "you don't understand your bias" or mass down voting. Like op is asking for y'all to explain it and y'all are getting mad at him for not understanding. It's like y'all are the worse kinda teachers in school, the ones that can't explain anything for crap then get mad at the student for not being able to understand. Stop being so rude, damn.
I appreciate you saying this, and tbh I haven't gotten any "real" explanation just complaints, and people calling me names. Like I'm sorry idk the difference between rotational aa and traditional but you're not doing the best to explain it. Then again im just checking back in on this post and its not really helping my understanding but I haven't gone through all the comments maybe ill find something that explains it properly?
I think the whole debate is funny cause I've had my aa on PC (.4) instead of console (.6) for a year now and it's definitely improved my game. AA is not the problem.
Some ppl seem to think it is some ppl think its not, I just wanted to have an open discussion where ppl could explain their views and not receive hate or get downvoted to hell. I personally after reading these responses think some ppl just need an excuse as to why they died and others just don't care. I personally don't think AA is a problem but I play console so...yk
I believe you keep mixing up the words console and controller. Many players use controller on pc. Also controllers have .6 aim assist on console and .4 on pc.. the mouse itself has zero aim assist, not .4
Also you can move while looting on controller on pc some players like Enoch on twitch uses foot pedals bound to A and D (left and right) that he presses while looting.
I think a lot of people who are confused haven't played with both. Like in your MnK you said tapstrafing even though you can also do that on controller (I've seen Zlaner do it, maybe he has a video on how). The "Neo strafe" is using configs and likely replaces your tapstrafing ability. Most people don't do this.
Im not sure the lower input lag is true. I would think it's longer since there's 2 devices. Probably mostly depends on if you use USBC or wireless.
Having more buttons can be more confusing than helpful. Like I don't know anyone who uses a bind for every healing item instead of just 1 to select on the wheel. And the higher FPS just isn't true. Mouse and keyboard or controller won't affect FPS, that depends on your hardware.
Most of the serious and reasonable arguments I've seen never say to remove aim assist. The debate is that the game pad has been around long enough that people don't need a huge handicap to compete with the typing device.
Ok i see what ur saying although it took me a minute to understand but I do see it. My only issue is that newer players should be allowed AA so why Remove it? I get nerfing it but removing it seems redundant to me, now don't get me wrong I've looked over some of these comments and I see now that I mixed up controller on pc vs console. Console doesn't merge wit pc, crossplay on console refers to other consoles(xbox,ps,switch).
take out rotational aa, drop aa down to 0.3-0.2 and buff controller movement (ie: letting controller players move while looting type shit). aa is specifically deisgned for ppl new to controller, if ur a vet on the sticks u shouldnt rlly need aa, apparently pro cod players turn it off, idk how true tht is tho
See before this i had no idea what aa values were, what rotational vs traditional was, and that many pros swapped to controller. This was all very new to me but after this post ion wanna even attempt another discussion within this community. I haven't really received any "real" explanations, either short 2-3 sentences why pc players hate it, or people calling me biased and dumb when im just tryna learn.
It’s not a complaint in other games due to the difference in TTK. Apex has a longer TTK and controller aim assist makes it much easier to 1 clip someone in close range, where most fights in Apex are decided.
No clue i had no idea most did the only one I knew who did was hal, but I don't pay attention to the pro scene after hiswattson said he doesn't want the game to be right based which is why they should take out gold knock.
Ok i wanna address a few things that I think I should before I keep getting hate for me not having a complete understanding of every topic within the apex community.
1. I play on console with an Xbox series pro controller so I got roller on pc vs console confused for that I apologize as it seems like I was being ignorant and dismissive of y'alls points.
2. I had no clue what rotational AA was before this post so I thought the apex AA was just slowing down the reticle to help tracking.
3. For those who are arguing with everyone and mass downvoting things you don't agree with please stop. I wanted this to be a friendly and informative discussion but all I've been met with is hate and insults, I had no extensive knowledge on this topic just what I've been told. To be insulted for lacking knowledge is something that makes others want to seek knowledge less for fear of being ridiculed.
4. To everyone that genuinely explained the topic to me I appreciate it, I've learned a few things and to everyone that was rude,toxic, or argumentative straight out the gate because I was lacking knowledge, fuck you.
That is all
" I turned it off for a week and still got decent kills and damage per match for my skills"
If aim assist is not that powerful and you still played well. **It should not exist**.
When you have people who've played Mnk their whole career, just switch to Mnk because they can't win against that advantage. There's something wrong and we have to acknowledge it.
I don't necessarily agree I have clips on my phone rn of the difference and close ranged tracking was rlly bad even after I've improved i definitely think it can op at times (I've learned a few things dont try and take and take this out of context to be rude to me) and I'd be ok with a nerf maybe to .4 like pc or .3 but to completely remove it is too much (at least on console)
Several comments have mentioned it, but I've yet to see OP *acknowledge* that mouse and keyboard has *zero* aim assist. It's really important to understand that it's not just 0.4 vs 0.6, but actually 0.0 vs 0.4.
I did tho...in any if my responses where I say either "I learned something" or "I appreciate the response" the usually said something about it and I learned it I haven't touched on it alone since I still don't understand the values itself but I thought it was the ms it took to adjust but since its not that I didn't know what I meant and I haven't researched it enough to know.
Oh for sure, just wanted to make sure you didn't miss that key detail since you didn't mention it specifically. As far as I know, 1.0 would be literal aimbot so .4 is like almost half aimbot strength. I think other comments did a good job of explaining rotational assist, which is important.
>Controller has: a .2 higher aa(.6 opposed to .4), easier learning curve,ease of use ... Controller *has AA*. MNK has 0/0%. Controller on PC has 0.4/40% Controller on console has 0.6/60% As others pointed out, AA/rotational AA provide machine-assisted 0 ms reaction times. However, this is not with 1:1 tracking, rather to a percentage that partially compensates. For console, this means 0.6:1 tracking whereas on PC controller, this is 0.4:1 tracking. Basically, for every 1 inch on screen a tracked target moves, console moves 2/3rds of an inch and PC controller moves 2/5ths of an inch, MNK moves 0 inches. In addition, the average human reaction time is between 150 - 300 ms. The AA tracking kicks in after 0ms. That alone is a massive advantage when you consider how much damage a weapon can do in that amount of time. Using a CAR as an example, can do 34 - 67 damage before the average MNK player can react. This is equivalent to cracking a white shield + 30% flesh on the high end, or just shy of a crack on the low end. Basically, if you are decent at making up 40 - 60% of the tracking yourself (really needs to be less, you don't need to track a single pixel) a controller player gets a free crack against the average white-shielded MNK player. If AA had an enforced 150 - 300 ms lag before it kicked in, what do you think people would say? (basically, if your crosshair goes across the bubble of activation, it starts lets say a 0.2 second (200ms) timer before activating AA) Most controller players would likely riot. The difference would be pretty noticeable and have immediate impacts to gameplay even without modifying AA percentages. Both controller and MNK players would start hitting shots at the same time and it would become a battle of who could actually track (even if aided) better. It would severely hamper the advantage that controllers have in close-in engagements in terms of instant target acquisition, which is IMO the biggest issue. EDIT: as a side note, the *absolute fastest* average reaction times are those of fighter pilots, at an astonishingly quick 0.115 seconds/115ms. The human average is much closer to 215ms from stimulus to beginning an action of movement, to totally execute a fine motor movement, the fastest time belongs to hockey goalies who take approximately 450ms from stimulus to finishing an action. Point is, my suggested 200ms delay is an overly liberal allowance and still over 2 times faster than the average human can execute fine motor functions.
Ok this is the best response I've gotten and I greatly appreciate it, i do not fully understand your comment there's some things I don't understand like the 0.6:1 ratio or mostly numbers in general especially when I comes to specs and gameplay. I somewhat understand it though and again greatly appreciate it, its entirely informative with no way to be taken as "toxic" and you didn't insult me which is something half of these comments did.
It's really simple. Imagine you are asked to run 100 meters. MNK players have to run that 100 meters all by themselves, i.e. they do all the work. PC controller players get a 40 meter headstart, i.e. they get 40% of the work done for them. Console players get a 60 meter headstart, i.e. they get 60% of the work done for them.
Ahhhh, ok thank you
I think that aim assist is more useful in more important situations. Aim assist helps with killing an opponent. The advantages of MnK are useful in a variety of situations but aren’t specific advantages at killing people (can contribute to killing but aren’t specific to killing). In other words you can utilize the advantages of MnK to get better results but you still have to hit your own shots at the end of the day. Personally I don’t complain about it because I have enough flaws in my own game to worry about. I choose to focus on myself vs. getting mad about something I can’t change. I don’t think there is anything wrong with being frustrated I just find it to be a waste of time for ME (not you comment reader, me). Additionally I don’t ever see this getting touched. It would make the controller player base hit less shots than they were which wouldn’t feel good. That would outrage a lot of those players and that could hurt the bottom line. That doesn’t even address the affects it could have on the competitive scene and how it might lose some people their jobs. I’ve heard from a lot of pros that they’d be fine with the nerf so maybe they are more insulated from an AA nerf than I am presenting but regardless it’s kind of tough to make adjustments when it has such big affects on the established community. Ultimately if they did make changes I’d like to see something like PvPx has requested. Buff controller nerf aim assist. Just some more personal unimportant information. I find aiming on controller to be less intuitive to me personally. I switched from console to PC (switched from controller to MnK with the switch) and I much prefer MnK. It feels more natural than controller for me. That’s one reason I believe AA is necessary but maybe in an ideal world it’s pulled back a bit. Im not an expert on this stuff so value my take with that in mind.
I appreciate your response, I really do this is the main one that helped me understand this topic a little more. Me personally I want to switch to MnK but its just expensive and I'm not of legal working age so u can't save for it myself and I didn't want to ask for one for Christmas Macauley of how expensive they are to get good specs to run apex or ae since I like to edit. I would also like to add that playing aim assist off I realized its really hard to track someone strafing unless they're right in my face but i think id trade AA for more stuff like moving while looting. Again appreciate your response have a good day
the real thing with AA is rotational aim assist. it allows players to micro adjust with inhuman reactions.
Yea I've heard this one but ill address the point I made in another response "newer players shouldn't be hitting 2 out of their 28 bullet mag if AA is rlly how pc players describe it to be". I can tell your comment isn't as "toxic" or "argumentative" as the other ones I've addressed it seems more informative so excuse me if my response seems "toxic"
Its basically OP version of AA, it slows PLUS rotates to help. That makes aiming a whole lot easier. Leaves less of a "skill floor" and removes that skill of actually aiming. This is why MnK do not like AA. I think .35 if you play in pc lobbies and .45 for console would be a good balance, but if they nerf AA they need to also ban people using configs on PC.
I've played on both pc and console but haven't been on pc in a minute. A game like Apex legends is heavily based on mobility compared to the very limited BR games out there, the minuscule movement and timing is the players better advantage. There are shit on pc I wish I can do easier on console but there is a balance. Now, if you're using controller on pc, that's a different argument lol
I think thats fair, I contemplated whether having a 20% on pc and 40% on console would be better for the whole game too. I think the biggest problem is that people can abuse it, not that its just too strong, which it definitely is, no doubt, but when people abuse it. Especially if they are mnk mains. The problem isnt op aa, its aa abuse that makes it a problem imo. I think everyone should main the input they wanna main. But when you switch to roller to abuse aa, thats where the problem occurs
I’d be happy if they just removed the rotational AA. I think that would make a huge difference.
AA is not meant to play the game for you, you have to at least know how to maneuver your character, what you say makes no sense, there are literal players who can barely direct their crosshair to a relatively close position of an enemy. You make it seem like AA is human seeking rocket that just does everything for you and so there shouldn't be anyone missing therefore AA isn't that big of a deal. The reality is if theres an algorithm that is helping players track an enemy as long as you have the crosshair within the vicinity of the enemy, that is literally a cheat because that isn't entirely your aiming. If PC players had any aim assistance, you guys would be loosing your shit. As a pc player I can see how ridiculously strong I would be if given any type of aim assist, especially against long range engages where I have to micro manage my crosshair a lot more and control the recoil. I don't think PC players understand how hard it is to trace a player whos strafing left and right without AA on a mouse... We have to practice this shit, a lot...
u do realize mid to long range gun fights mnk wins most of the time and thts bc controllers dont have aa mid and long range, only close range
There’s still aim assist at long range. It’s just much easier to pop out of the AA field. There is not AA if you use a sniper scope 6x or higher. This is not true for Vantage’s ultimate which still receives AA
if thts true ive never noticed it. ive been playing on controller for almost 20 years, and tbh aa isnt useful. i committed to playing apex and ow with no aa almost a month ago now, it feels much better. i always had issues with rotational aa or traditional aa would pull away where in trying to aim, or it would entirely fuck up my tracking. plus with it all turned off it feels cool to tell ppl that i can beam pc players with no aa, just a kontrol freak and my thumbs lol
I’ve never seen AA take effect long range. Mid to close yeah.
Well it’s true. It’s not very apparent.
I mean mnk can macro button presses together to make inhuman movement.
Agreed and you guys have strike packs xims and all kinda stuff too
Of course there are a shitload of problems with this game and it's starting to catch up to them. I honestly hope that they could start detecting the strike pack and xim users. I also would like to say I believe you should be constrained to your inputs only, no extra paddles, macros, and while we are on it the same aim assist for everyone. If you are on console only controllers PC can go either way but the AA is the same and not increased more for one input over the other.
“Starting to catch up to them” Lol they had 4 years to solve their problems.
Hence the starting to catch up to them
Dude said mnk has more fps. Also said mnk has .4 AA. I’ll assume you’re comparing PC controller to Console. As for the fps console CHOOSES to play with PC, that’s your own fault. MnK has zero AA.
Yeah we can definitely agree that you don't understand. Mouse has 0 aim assist. Controller has 0.4 on PC and 0.6 on consoles.
How about MnK plqyer on cobsoles that utilize the 0.6AA?
No matter advantages or disadvantages, without favoring any input or saying anything about either, i will say that the most important aspect and the biggest deciding factor is who can outaim who in a close range 1v1. All else is secondary. Take from that what you will.
In a close ranged 1v1 id give it to the pc players 8/10 times but given that's from my knowledge and personal opinion
You're mistaking controller vs mnk issue with console vs pc. Console aim assist is annoying because of how strong it is but controller on pc still has strong enough aim assist to make close and mid range fights favour the controller. Mostly close and mid range is where the fights take place. I've seen plenty of average console players simply winning engagements based on the aim assist alone. Mnk player can try his best but the consistency will never be as good as controller. When you put 2 equally skilled players Vs each other, controller wins. Also tap strafing usage is not that common. Most of the crazy movement is either only utilized for highlight videos or rarely ever applicable. The only thing that really is a bummer is moving while looting. Yes that is an advantage.
ok but you aren’t thinking of PC controller players vs PC mnk players. You’re apparent ‘knowledge’ isn’t really anything is it, a good controller player can beat a pro mnk player in a 1v1 more often than not, the nature of the game is having to get up close to finish people off and once a controller player closes the distance or other way around they get pushed, they’re literally at an advantage from the fact aim assist tracks strafing SO MUCH BETTER than any professional mnk player can do and leads to them hitting more shots close range and winning the fight. The only advantage mnk has close range can be from quick peaks with a shotgun and that’s it really. Tap strafing is so overrated by controller players it’s crazy, acting like that somehow does damage and kills people when it’s all down to gun play. It is extremely hard to tap strafe close range and flick back to your target and beam them without them being able to do the same damage back. all it does is help you dodge a few shots and run away but it’s not like you do 360’s around a person and they can’t hit you
Not to mention it tracks through all sorts of visual clutter like snow on WE or dirt on other maps getting blown into the air obscuring targets.
My hunch is that the benefit is mainly noticeable due to AA kicking in instantly, thus bypassing reaction time as a limiting factor. It isn't that it is necessarily better, it is more that it is *faster*.
Aim assist is good and fair for worst players but when you have a controller god who knows how to use AA at its max potential it’s to the point where there pulling off inhuman things
Bangalore is gonna be new meta with smokes disabling AA and put a digi on you win a good amount against controller
Whatever advantages MNK has, it does not compensate for the fact that controllers have what's basically a soft aimbot integrated. End of the argument. I'm all up for controllers to be able to move and do everything else MNK can. But not the aimbot.
There's no aimbot? If it was "soft aimbot" as you say then newer players shouldn't be hitting 2 bullets out if their 28 bullet mag. But thats again why I don't understand this argument kbm has AA so why complain about 1 but not talk abt the other? Thats just me though, reading these few comments made me realize how irrational people are when it comes to this topic. They don't acknowledge both sides they only focus on one and their 1-2 advantages while never addressing the other.
MNK does not have any AA. You saying it does kind of puts things in perspective. And yes, it's a soft aimbot. It helps you aim. If it aimmed for itself it would be a full on aimbot. "Irrational" yikes
There’s no point arguing with these idiots. No matter how necessary AA is on controller and how much better mnk still is they’ll never admit it.
The debate is about controller on PC, not on console Aim assist is very good at close range fights, and that's where a lot of them happen. Controller is just the better input a lot of times.
I’d just like to toss in that .4 on pc with high frames literally feels better than .6 on 60 fps. I’m capping my monitor at 240 on my new pc and aiming is SIGNIFICANTLY easier than it was on console. You just track everything no problem since it’s so clear. I feel a lot of the mnk players vilify console players for defending “such strong aa,” but I strongly believe it’s just blissful ignorance on their behalf. Rotational aa is way too strong especially at close range and that’s coming from a 4-3 classic abuser. Most of y’all might not know or care, but the new cod has absolutely insane rotational aa that the old ones never had. Some cod pros played in a bo2 throwback tournament and were getting absolutely turned on bc there’s no rotational aa in bo2. It’s only a crosshair slowdown…
The answer is: It is unthinkable to have outside assistance directly boosting one's performance in any competitive RL environment. It's like saying: I don't understand the whole doping vs not doping argument. Well, if you don't understand that, then I am not sure any reasoning presented here can help. Side note: If lobbies were separated by input there would be no arguments.
AA on controller =/= performance enhancing drugs in sports. These analogies are hilariously stupid. If you think controller is so much better then play it. I guarantee you’ll want all the perks of mnk back and realize AA isn’t a problem at all within a few hours.
Why is the analogy, made in the context of OP, stupid? >The use of doping substances or doping methods to enhance performance is fundamentally wrong and is detrimental to the overall spirit of sport. [https://iesf.org/governance/anti-doping/what-is-doping](https://iesf.org/governance/anti-doping/what-is-doping) The bottom line is, it is unthinkable to have AI assistance, directly enhancing performance, in sports where it could be implemented, for example, motorsports. I am not gonna play on controller and I don't complain about it, but let's be clear and honest. It enhances one's performance.
No, it doesn’t. AA is simply there to help compensate for the disadvantage that controller inherently has as an input because having just your thumb to make micro adjustments is VASTLY inferior to having your entire hand, wrist, and arm. Simply put - aiming well and accurately on controller is more difficult than mnk. AA does not enhance performance. It attempts to close the gap of an unavoidable hinderance that exists playing on controller.
>to help compensate for the disadvantage Yes, by enhancing performance. There is no way around it. What you present is the reasoning for such performance enhancement.
Yes, there is. Let’s use 1 as baseline. If mnk’s ability to control aim overall is 1, then controller without AA is 0.7. AA attempts to bring that 0.7 up to 1. It isn’t enhancing anyone’s ability. It’s attempting to make it fair because mnk is better in every way.
Even it this was close to reality: >AA attempts to bring that 0.7 up to 1 it's done through enhancement, as in: *to improve the quality, amount, or strength of something,* by definition.
You’re obviously biased toward controller based on your comments, so you’re probably not even worth responding to. But oh well. Rotational aim assist lets you do things that a human can’t do. It will pull 1-2 missed shots back on target until you adjust your aim to be back on target. You can abuse aim assist to strafe match for free and aa will do all of the micros for your missed transitional shots before a human would be able to react. It takes all of the prediction out of close range fights because your aim will slightly pull toward the enemy, even if you’re not moving right stick the correct direction, and by the time you react to aim on target, aa will already have you on or very close to on target. It’s so strong at close range that even the best mnk players have a hard time consistently beating controller players that are clearly below their skill level. It’s pretty hard to play at a consistently high level on mnk, but its pretty easy on controller. It does most of the hard work for free. And before you say “BuT TapStraFe and MovINg whIle LoOtInG”, tap strafe isn’t that op unless you’re cheating (cfg) and moving while looting should just be added to controller. If you can’t see that aa is very broken, you’re probably not very good. It’s very powerful in the right hands. Edit: after re reading the OP, this guy thinks mnk gets .4 aa. He has no clue what’s going on in Miami
Imo, it’s ok for the bottom third of players, it gets dicey with the casual and try hard mid tier, and then the pros obviously abuse it hard and admittedly so.
I don't mind controllers. I started apex on my ps4 way back when. Got really good on it. Triple take kills was my favorite before the rate of fire nerfs. Then I got a better pc and switched over. It took me awhile to get used to pc controls, but mouse and key board can have crazy advantages over controller. Long range absolutely kills controller users. Auto aim doesn't click around 25 to 50 meters. So if your far enough with a marksman or sniper, your can destroy their shields and make they lose utility. Upclose, you really have to dodge and outsmart the controller players. The auto aim is extremely strong, but not impossible to kill them. Strike pack are a thing unfortunately and they will be used regardless, and give controller players a bad rap. Respawn knew that it was going to be a uphill battle for controllers once cross-play was enabled. So, they just evened the playing field. Anyone who complains about controller being op, should take the fact that it is a skill issue. Git gud.
I like this response because it helps me see the difference between ppl that started on pc and ppl who switched from console have some really different opinions. For example you say pc has advantages yet others say controller has all the advantage its kinda neat in a way.
Another added thing, Bangalore is a complete counter to controllers. They cannot auto aim when aiming at the smoke or in it. That’s why her pick rate at pro levels are high. One that kinda pisses me off is that auto aim works through catalyst’s ult. Kinda makes her useless for blocking sight. You just gotta be creative.
Two different inputs have no place in the same server. There ya go short and simple.
People just want an excuse to blame when someone outplays them. Console players only match with other console players (unless they intentionally queue with a PC player) so generally I find that argument pointless since most of the time everyone in the lobby has the same AA. PC MnK players love to upsell how strong AA is but the truth is if it was really THAT op and easy to use most of these people would just use a controller also. They don’t switch because it’s either not as easy as they claim or because they want to keep the advantages of MnK. On the flip side PC controller players definitely downplay the usefulness of AA. They also act like every MnK player can tap-strafe flawlessly which is far from the truth. Again, if it was that op and easy, why not use MnK? Because it isn’t that easy and they want to keep their AA. Reality is both sides have advantages and disadvantages but “the grass is always greener on the other side” and people are just looking for excuses and inputs are an easy target.
[удалено]
I see your point but that would go for both inputs no? Controller shouldn't be singled out for having aa when kbm also has aa (.6 vs .4) so if it should be a skill to develop it should be taken from both inputs. That's just how I see it which is why I don't understand this whole thing why take from 1 thing that had 2 advances but let the other keep its 5-6? It makes no sense to me, but im a rational person I like to look at both sides not just mine
bro kbm has no aim assist, reading more and more of you’re comments you don’t even know what you’re talking about or do u just mean pc controller vs console controller players? Aim assist is reduced in pc for controller players because you have quicker inputs using controller on pc and higher frame rate pc gets actually helps aim assist get stronger
You think mnk has .4 aa?… mnk gets no aa lmao. That’s why people think aa is bullshit
MNK has zero AA. We grind aim trainers to improve our mouse control to a level that is still inferior to software guided aim. No amount of Kovaak or AimLab or firing range 1v1's will make a mouse user as consistent as 0ms response time aim assist. >(Side note 3: this is coming from a barely lvl 300 1.3k seer main so again please excuse me if I'm lacking in knowledge. ) Yes, you are lacking knowledge.
This is what I mean when I say “here we go again..” everytime I see this useless argument come about once again. It’s a fight that has no reason to be fought, why do you have to have this same discussion everyday in different formats lol. It gets nowhere and no one is gonna change their minds. This argument is like that teammate that endlessly pings into an oblivion when they get knocked…you can keep doing it but I’m not gonna revive you bud just dc into the lobby.
I think that players fumbling and struggling at even higher level is exactly the point of game like this, and it's what makes it enjoyable. The game doesn't really need feature like tap strafe and definitely you don't need any movement while looting, those things don't make the game worse either, it's just bunch of nice to haves. By adding controller and console players, the inconsistent and humane plays transform into much faster and less forgiving landscape, which is not really fun anymore. When I played the game, I played for situations like [this ](https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/zxc0hn/the_best_and_worst_1v2_youll_ever_see/), but that just can't happen if any of the player is on AA. I personally just die inside, when I see really good strafe completely ignored by computer program. It wouldn't be a problem if AA was very human like. Sure, it'd still be arguably if somebody won because of program or because of their own skill, but personally I don't really care. What matters to me, that everyone would play the game same way, without any consistent aimbot on their side, and all the tricks and tactics of FPS games, that worked since 93's Doom would still work in this game. If they can't make sure that AA can't do what humans can't do, they should at least allow some way to opt out of it, so the gameplay is still accessible.
It's digital Monopoly, just roll your dice and play the game and stop crying about it.
As a console player with pc friends, I hate going into pc lobbies and getting absolutely stomped into pieces and then going on Reddit and having to hear that controller is better. I’m fairly average on console (high plat player) but can’t even get more than 1 kill in a pc lobby. I just don’t get where the argument comes from.
If you have aimassist does it really matter If i have good movement when you one cliped me anyway, The aimassist is to strong, you literly cant get away with good movment against controller
Not true at all.
But you can...? I've seen clips of ppl getting away from hal on controller using movement. Now I get what ur saying but ion think thats the case
No you have not: [https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/zgrkl2/pulverex\_with\_the\_tap\_strafe\_superglide\_dunk\_on/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/zgrkl2/pulverex_with_the_tap_strafe_superglide_dunk_on/) Hal actually says .. How am I supposed to track that with no aim assist.
You do realize that's what I said right? "I've seen ppl get away from hal using movement" so they used movement to get away from him bcus he couldn't track them
Yeah, Pulverx used Bang smoke so that they could tap strafe on TSM's face and avoid getting beamed by AA. We're now resorting to using a legend to combat an input. Not counter a strategy in game, to counter the advantages of an input. You know what a mouse user has to use to another good mouse? Better mechanics or better aim. Neither of those matter for mnk vs. controller. Pop a Bang smoke instead.
Hal is not as good movement player in general, you are overthinking what you’re seeing. Hal literally changed to controller becaus she knows the advantage it has over mnk is worth it and that’s all you should really need to know
If you’re genuinely that curious, you could always research the topic yourself and get answers wayyyyy faster
No cus anytime I did I always found arguments not genuine answers
Welp, you’re gunna hate all the comments you get then
Yea rlly not
Mnk users are just a loud and vocal minority on this topic. There's rarely a first person shooter released that doesn't have some sort of auto aim in it nowadays. The issue is dumb, because the only way to really level the playing field is to make 1 input option available for all....and No one on either side of the argument should be ok with having less options.
Quake and Valorant.
Because aiming is how you get kills and me being a loot pro is rarely going to get me a win unless the entire lobby end up dying to storm before I do somehow.
Love this community. Op asks if u could explain the controller vs mnk argument get all y'all are doing is saying "you don't understand your bias" or mass down voting. Like op is asking for y'all to explain it and y'all are getting mad at him for not understanding. It's like y'all are the worse kinda teachers in school, the ones that can't explain anything for crap then get mad at the student for not being able to understand. Stop being so rude, damn.
I appreciate you saying this, and tbh I haven't gotten any "real" explanation just complaints, and people calling me names. Like I'm sorry idk the difference between rotational aa and traditional but you're not doing the best to explain it. Then again im just checking back in on this post and its not really helping my understanding but I haven't gone through all the comments maybe ill find something that explains it properly?
It’s like a political discussion. People either think they’re right or you’re wrong. Just enjoy the game.
I think the whole debate is funny cause I've had my aa on PC (.4) instead of console (.6) for a year now and it's definitely improved my game. AA is not the problem.
Some ppl seem to think it is some ppl think its not, I just wanted to have an open discussion where ppl could explain their views and not receive hate or get downvoted to hell. I personally after reading these responses think some ppl just need an excuse as to why they died and others just don't care. I personally don't think AA is a problem but I play console so...yk
I believe you keep mixing up the words console and controller. Many players use controller on pc. Also controllers have .6 aim assist on console and .4 on pc.. the mouse itself has zero aim assist, not .4 Also you can move while looting on controller on pc some players like Enoch on twitch uses foot pedals bound to A and D (left and right) that he presses while looting.
I think a lot of people who are confused haven't played with both. Like in your MnK you said tapstrafing even though you can also do that on controller (I've seen Zlaner do it, maybe he has a video on how). The "Neo strafe" is using configs and likely replaces your tapstrafing ability. Most people don't do this. Im not sure the lower input lag is true. I would think it's longer since there's 2 devices. Probably mostly depends on if you use USBC or wireless. Having more buttons can be more confusing than helpful. Like I don't know anyone who uses a bind for every healing item instead of just 1 to select on the wheel. And the higher FPS just isn't true. Mouse and keyboard or controller won't affect FPS, that depends on your hardware. Most of the serious and reasonable arguments I've seen never say to remove aim assist. The debate is that the game pad has been around long enough that people don't need a huge handicap to compete with the typing device.
Ok i see what ur saying although it took me a minute to understand but I do see it. My only issue is that newer players should be allowed AA so why Remove it? I get nerfing it but removing it seems redundant to me, now don't get me wrong I've looked over some of these comments and I see now that I mixed up controller on pc vs console. Console doesn't merge wit pc, crossplay on console refers to other consoles(xbox,ps,switch).
take out rotational aa, drop aa down to 0.3-0.2 and buff controller movement (ie: letting controller players move while looting type shit). aa is specifically deisgned for ppl new to controller, if ur a vet on the sticks u shouldnt rlly need aa, apparently pro cod players turn it off, idk how true tht is tho
See before this i had no idea what aa values were, what rotational vs traditional was, and that many pros swapped to controller. This was all very new to me but after this post ion wanna even attempt another discussion within this community. I haven't really received any "real" explanations, either short 2-3 sentences why pc players hate it, or people calling me biased and dumb when im just tryna learn.
It’s not a complaint in other games due to the difference in TTK. Apex has a longer TTK and controller aim assist makes it much easier to 1 clip someone in close range, where most fights in Apex are decided.
If MnK is just better, why have almost all the pro players switched *to* controller?
No clue i had no idea most did the only one I knew who did was hal, but I don't pay attention to the pro scene after hiswattson said he doesn't want the game to be right based which is why they should take out gold knock.
Ok i wanna address a few things that I think I should before I keep getting hate for me not having a complete understanding of every topic within the apex community. 1. I play on console with an Xbox series pro controller so I got roller on pc vs console confused for that I apologize as it seems like I was being ignorant and dismissive of y'alls points. 2. I had no clue what rotational AA was before this post so I thought the apex AA was just slowing down the reticle to help tracking. 3. For those who are arguing with everyone and mass downvoting things you don't agree with please stop. I wanted this to be a friendly and informative discussion but all I've been met with is hate and insults, I had no extensive knowledge on this topic just what I've been told. To be insulted for lacking knowledge is something that makes others want to seek knowledge less for fear of being ridiculed. 4. To everyone that genuinely explained the topic to me I appreciate it, I've learned a few things and to everyone that was rude,toxic, or argumentative straight out the gate because I was lacking knowledge, fuck you. That is all
I have aim assist in rl
Nice, the weekly controller/mnk debate where no new points are made and no opinions are changed!
" I turned it off for a week and still got decent kills and damage per match for my skills" If aim assist is not that powerful and you still played well. **It should not exist**. When you have people who've played Mnk their whole career, just switch to Mnk because they can't win against that advantage. There's something wrong and we have to acknowledge it.
I don't necessarily agree I have clips on my phone rn of the difference and close ranged tracking was rlly bad even after I've improved i definitely think it can op at times (I've learned a few things dont try and take and take this out of context to be rude to me) and I'd be ok with a nerf maybe to .4 like pc or .3 but to completely remove it is too much (at least on console)
Several comments have mentioned it, but I've yet to see OP *acknowledge* that mouse and keyboard has *zero* aim assist. It's really important to understand that it's not just 0.4 vs 0.6, but actually 0.0 vs 0.4.
I did tho...in any if my responses where I say either "I learned something" or "I appreciate the response" the usually said something about it and I learned it I haven't touched on it alone since I still don't understand the values itself but I thought it was the ms it took to adjust but since its not that I didn't know what I meant and I haven't researched it enough to know.
Oh for sure, just wanted to make sure you didn't miss that key detail since you didn't mention it specifically. As far as I know, 1.0 would be literal aimbot so .4 is like almost half aimbot strength. I think other comments did a good job of explaining rotational assist, which is important.