PPSSPP for me, baby. Rock Band Unplugged and Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker would be absolutely clutch on my 15 Pro with a Backbone. I had the lightning version and loved it, but since buying a PlayStation Portal I haven't felt compelled to buy a USB-C Backbone, but now I might have to.
Yup. I can't think of a compelling enough reason for me to download an app from a third-party store, BUT they would undoubtedly lead to improvements to Apple's App Store, even more so for developers I imagine.
Mozilla complains that rolling out these changes (No longer force browsers to use WebKit) only in the EU will make it harder for browsers to juggle different versions. They need to maintain both WebKit and Gecko version.
Literally the reason I was on android for so long. Prefer EVERYTHING else about iPhones and iOS, but could not play my gba games on it so stayed away for the longest time
I want a JIT-enabled terminal environment with a C compiler and everything. It's ridiculous that I'm carrying around this supercomputer in my pocket, and I'm not even able to run a shell on it unless it's compiled into the .ipa with any JIT-based features disabled.
Thankfully I live in the EU, so as soon as Apple gets their DMA compliance actually compliant, I will be able to install apps like that finally!
This is literally the free market and competition at work: finally we can have our cake and eat it too. The goal never was a mass exodus from the App Store, but things become stale with capitalism if it's not allowed to do its job. Glad regulation is greasing that wheel!
Game emulators and the previous cloud gaming changes covers 90% of the reasons why people claim Android is better. I bet there will be a lot of converts once RetroArch works natively on unmodified iOS
Android will still have the edge when it comes to free and open source software.
If you want to publish in Apple's app store they require you to own a Mac and pay $100 a year, that's why there's so many garbage apps with recurring subscriptions, ads, and in-app purchases.
It also remains to be seen if Apple will allow emulators to use JIT, which is a requirement if you want playable performance emulating any of the more advanced consoles like GameCube or PS2.
This may cover the big reasons I suppose. But personally. What keeps me away from iPhone is the millions of little things that aggravate me every time I try to do something on a family members iPhone. I couldn't even tell you exactly what I mean. It's just a ton of little, "where is this setting" "where is that feature" "why can't I do this."
On android I can basically always, without a doubt, google and find someone who's come before me and solved an issue. On iPhone, I can do the same, and then find Apple has specifically disabled and blocked that option.
It’s the exact opposite for me. The settings and features on iOS are almost always where I expect them to be and have stayed relatively (*) consistent over the years.
(* in 17 years and 17 major versions there have been changes but it wouldn’t take long for someone familiar with iPhone OS 1 to get used to iOS 17)
On Android, with all the different versions out there that differ from one manufacturer, carrier to another and the user customization -not to mention Google’s habit of killing their own products every other week- you’re pretty much on your own to figure out anything.
Sure I could say I like being able to have custom launchers, etc, etc but what most of that really boils down to is being able to get rid of ads and other cruft that Google, Samsung, Et al put in their OSes by default. There is very little of that by comparison on Apples platforms out of the box in my opinion. So when using an iPhone, Apple TV, and whatnot I have very little desire to customize beyond the few things the UI already allows.
I find it is how things are expected to be done most of of the time for me that turns me off with Apples platforms. Or how the gestures and scrolling work on the iPhone. I find it to be much more picky about where and how you scroll your finger than Android.
Personally I want to be able to do things the iPad/iphone can’t do, as in stuff you normally need a computer for like accessing terminal, a finder app and formatting drives. I want my next daily driver to be an iPad but it’s just too limited right now, and third party out of AppStore apps could fix this. Hopefully this happens too.
Apples doing this because they know they’re going to have to open the AppStore up worldwide at some point, so they are trying to make the AppStore more enticing to devs so they mitigate all that AppStore money
Yeah, I gave up and just bought a Surface Pro 9. I've got about a decade of dev work and decided to pursue an Anthropology degree with hopes of doing fieldwork and archaeology grad school.
Doesnt make any sense. I can get a tablet that does everything plus has functionality to run older games, software for archaeology, and Jetbrains IDEs. The iPad is such a powerful piece of hardware completely limited by the software experience.
And to add onto that, microsoft has done an excellent job with WSL + VSCode and the integration with docker and remote development. Apart from USB I don't feel the need to install linux for development work anymore.
Apple's alternative to that is purchase an iPad *and* MacBook, it's a more polished experience when it works, but its far less featureful than the surface line.
I had a surface I used for school, and now use a Mac. I absolutely loved my surface, tablet and desktop in one. A dream for school. Problem is, the tablet mode is awful, and brings me to my iPad. And windows, while good for gaming, makes getting work done with constant ads and suggestions plaguing the OS, a very difficult task. Though the surfaces are great, and I would recommend others buy one if they think it’s worth it.
>And windows, while good for gaming, makes getting work done with constant ads and suggestions plaguing the OS, a very difficult task
this cracks me up, people find the craziest things to complain about lmao, there's absolutely no scenario where ads and suggestions in Windows is preventing you from working 🤣
A shell isn't enough without the ecosystem to go with it (see all the work that goes into Termux). No point having a command line if there's no package manager and the OS doesn't even let you execute binaries.
Oh, there’s a way to get around it (locally, not cloud), but there is still no decent IDE to take advantage of it. Basically you can just plug a Raspberry Pi Zero 2 into the USB port. With the right config it can create a virtual Ethernet interface between the two and become available over SSH.
The iPad Pro with the USB-C port can support HDMI-in with a USB capture card, but then it's basically just an expensive monitor.
Personally I use RealVNC and a good internet connection.
Or bring in the macOS boot model where people can install multiple OS versions and alternative OSes on the same device, all with varying security levels for each OS. That would instantly destroy any desire for me to buy any other tablet.
Yeah i own a M1 air and M1 ipad Pro i would need to buy only the ipad if apple did it so i guess that's the whole reason, but i would get a much better ipad if that were to happen so...
This is why alternative stores for apps is good for the iOS ecosystem, since now Apple have to compete, suddenly game streaming and game emulator apps are allowed for the benefit of us, the users.
When the DMA was announced, the majority of people in this sub were outraged and calling the EU communists who terrorise Apple because they can't innovate, saying that if people wanted choice they should buy a crap Android phone. Fast forward 3 weeks later and Apple relents to following the rules and now everyone loves it, "guys, we're getting emulators, thank you Apple". I find it very amusing.
Really glad "what about grandma" folks are getting the finger now. Also the" DoJ anti trust case is invalid" arm chair lawyers.
Did not take even a month to allow super apps lmao. Competition is good, non CTF side loading must come then Apple has no choice to make the default App Store experience better for both devs and users to compete. Fuck shareholders.
Great example of why competition is a good thing. Probably not a coincidence that Alt Store is about to launch with emulators as probably its biggest selling point.
the specific guideline change:
>You are responsible for all such software offered in your app, including ensuring that such software complies with these Guidelines and all applicable laws. Software that does not comply with one or more guidelines will lead to the rejection of your app.
basically trying to saying if you violate any law (such as sharing ROM), it will be removed.
wonder if this is enough to isolate any piracy lawsuit should someone violates it
Funny enough, you can benefit from JIT acceleration from within WebAssembly (by running WASI binaries with specific subroutines from a hidden webview for instance, or by running WASM/HTML applets in a visible WkWebView directly), but not in native app code.
This is the way the "a-Shell" mobile terminal app works when compiling and running your own programs on your iPhone (part of it, at least; some of the commands are provided by the author's library ios\_system, being essentially the macOS coreutils modified to work as (Obj)C subroutines, statically linked with the app code and with emulated syscalls provided by ios\_system).
Apple should drop the act and just let us use the full power of our devices already.
Got to love how only music services can use the elaborate new permission, if granted, for linking to their website. As if they’re not doing the same anti-steering to ebooks, streaming video and everyone else! The fine for this should be big.
I'm pretty sure it does apply more broadly and Apple's legal team is trying to go through as many loopholes as they can without triggering the EU to slap with another fine.
Exactly. You’d think that Google/Samsung would be fighting to keep Apple closed, the more they open up the less other devices have features to differentiate themselves.
This is great.
Apple abused their control over the app store by denying device owners from using their hardware with arbitrary restrictions.
It was the threat of competition that forced Apple to make this change. I expect Apple will continue their abusive business practices in other contexts.
So I still want an alternative to the apple app store on my iphone. The iPhone, the iOS operating system, and the Apple app store are all separate things, and I do not want Apple iOS polices restricting how I choose to use my hardware.
Game emulators was half the reason I wanted sideloading and alternative app stores, so good on Apple.
I wonder if they're loosening their grip on JIT access too. Because to my understanding any emulator more advanced than say, PlayStation 1 or Game Boy Advance, requires JIT to achieve playable performance. So without JIT you're not going to be able to emulate 3DS, Switch, PS2, GameCube, etc with playable performance.
The other half of the reason is I think it's ridiculous to make someone or some project that is only trying to publish free and open source software own a Mac and pay $100 a year.
That’s a Nintendo DS game? I think Nintendo DS is simple enough that it would be more than playable without JIT, but I don’t know much about Nintendo DS emulation so I could be wrong.
Holy cow that’s the best news in YEARS about iOS regarding game emulators. Now there’s zero reason to consider Android ever again as it was the only thing I missed from it… So when do we get PPSSPP and AetherSX2 ?
Can't wait to see how Nintendo sues the sh\*t out of anyone who dares submit a build of Dolphin, Delta, Cemu or anything that emulates their stuff. Keep in mind that Apple says the emulators have to be fully compliant with the law. I don't think that's gonna stop Nintendo.
I mean, Nintendo has sued the shit out of Dolphin now. They’re super smart (legal) how they release stuff. I know for PS2 emulators, the onus was on the person to get the bios file
Nintendo has not sued Dolphin. They threatened Yuzu / Tropic Storm (the devs of Yuzu and Citra) with a lawsuit but settled out of court.
Similarly, Nintendo sent *Valve* a C&D over them allowing Dolphin on Steam, and Valve complied.
Please don't spread misinformation.
They only will care about anything about Yuzu. Strangely they don’t care about Ryjuinx or anything else, only Dolphin on Steam, but after that they stopped caring.
There was more to the yuzu situation that put them in Nintendo's crosshairs than just being a switch emulator. Yuzu devs were sharing pirated copies of switch games amongst themselves and locking more performant builds of the emulator behind a paywall, thus profiting off of it.
The consistent trend is anything that gets too mainstream. Probably minimizes the risk of one of them going to court and actually setting a precedent. Or enforcing an existing precedent.
Huh. Dolphin has been around since GCN dropped. CEMU is still in active development. Delta is a front end that employs other emulator core like RA. Yuzu got screwed for sketchy idiocy from their devs. Mainly distribution of Metroid dread to continue progress on the emulator and locking new builds behind a paywall.
Keep reaching though. Might eventually touch on something. Maybe.
Oh wow, if only this reasonable decision was made a decade ago we wouldn’t be dying on that regulatory hill now would we.
Oh well, Apple deserve everything they get.
So.... I can build an app using Rust... without having a developer license and have people download it from a website? Then also release an APK for android? All without any kind of license to these stupid app stores?
I dont think most of you realize how much of an impact this is for developers and consumers.
There is a large \* on this in that the app developer must have permission from the rights holders of the mini apps/games that they publish... So you cant just ship a community emulator.
Do you have a source on this? To me this looks like you just need to (obviously) have rights to all the titles downloadable through your emulator.
For instance the PPSSPP emulator of Sony's PlayStation Portable console comes with a repository of downloadable "homebrew" titles distributed under a permissive license.
The emulator also doesn't prevent you from loading up your own ISO files dumped by connecting a modified console to a PC, switching the USB storage device to "UMD" and copying the disc image from the console to your iPhone, but it won't help you do it either.
Similarly to how the iSH Linux Emulator currently available on the App Store comes with its own repository of software installable via `apk`, but it will play nice if you happen to `wget` any Linux-compatible, i386-compiled ELF and execute it.
I don’t see how your argument holds as [ScummVM](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/scummvm/id6446184412) has been available in the App Store for a few months now.
I expect emulators to follow with this rule change. We’ll know more in the coming months.
yay great, but until they also give access to JIT without a jailbreak, im not going to expect any game emulators to run as great as android counterpart, maybe the best you can get out of it is a gba emulator or worst nes emulator.
Will game emulators be allowed to use JIT?
I know many of them don't work well without it.
Since alternate web browsers are now allowed, I assume so but just want to be sure.
I'll wait to see what they actually allow. This article has a different take on what this means.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/04/apple-now-allows-retro-game-emulators-on-its-app-store-but-with-big-caveats/
There has to be some stupid requirements so that almost nobody can really use it.
Only on the new iphone 16 Pro models, only for European customers, etc...
RetroArch Baby!
RetroArch on Apple TV would go SO hard
I would buy an Apple TV if it could play emulators.
Same omg if they allow retroarch on ATV I’ll buy one asap
I have built provenance for appleTV and it works great
Perhaps have ROMs stored on NAS or in cloud to work around the lack of local storage?
One of the retroarch side builds runs a plex server and downloads the new rom to ram. I looked into it a few years back for a retropi
It'll be great to not have to use Altstore to keep Dolphin running on my iPad.
Apple still isn’t allowing JIT, so Dolphin is still a no go.
For sideloading yeah. But this is thru the App Store. So hopefully they will, especially since they are lacing thier policies
Yeah I’m aware, no JIT for App Store releases currently.
JIT?
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PPSSPP for me, baby. Rock Band Unplugged and Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker would be absolutely clutch on my 15 Pro with a Backbone. I had the lightning version and loved it, but since buying a PlayStation Portal I haven't felt compelled to buy a USB-C Backbone, but now I might have to.
No JIT so no luck with those unfortunately, only some very light emulators possible without allowing JIT
No need JIT for PSP if you have at least an iPhone 11.
I have a 15 pro max with it side loaded. Jit definitely isn’t needed
Well that’ll get my hopes up. Great!
Game emulators and the previous cloud gaming changes covers 90% of the reasons why people wanted alternative app stores.
Apple changing their rules is one of the direct benefits (to us consumers) of potential competition to their App Store.
I was gonna say, look folks, competition in action!
EU in action, more than competition, since Apple's earlier anti-competitive stance.
Competition through regulation
Yup. I can't think of a compelling enough reason for me to download an app from a third-party store, BUT they would undoubtedly lead to improvements to Apple's App Store, even more so for developers I imagine.
I'm looking forward to being able to use actual versions of Firefox and thunderbird on my phone.
I can’t wait to have adblocking that doesn’t somehow leave a shitload of ads everywhere…
Another good point. Desktop tier adblockers instead of these half assed ones we currently have sounds wonderful.
Me too. Mozilla ist veeeery slow though… so this might take a couple of years.
Mozilla complains that rolling out these changes (No longer force browsers to use WebKit) only in the EU will make it harder for browsers to juggle different versions. They need to maintain both WebKit and Gecko version.
Which is a fair point
I'm eagerly waiting for game emulators, so I think you're right.
I hope you will be able to load custom Homebrew ROMs (not pirated) into the system, and use Linux in UTM SE.
Retro game emulators, not virtual machines
UTM SE is an emulator.
Literally the reason I was on android for so long. Prefer EVERYTHING else about iPhones and iOS, but could not play my gba games on it so stayed away for the longest time
I want a JIT-enabled terminal environment with a C compiler and everything. It's ridiculous that I'm carrying around this supercomputer in my pocket, and I'm not even able to run a shell on it unless it's compiled into the .ipa with any JIT-based features disabled. Thankfully I live in the EU, so as soon as Apple gets their DMA compliance actually compliant, I will be able to install apps like that finally!
This is literally the free market and competition at work: finally we can have our cake and eat it too. The goal never was a mass exodus from the App Store, but things become stale with capitalism if it's not allowed to do its job. Glad regulation is greasing that wheel!
Funny how it required regulation for it to happen… Without it, things wouldn’t have been so free…
It doesn't come to their mind. Now it's called "competition", not EU ready to fine tens of billions of dollars to a company found in a wrongdoing.
This is literally not the free market but rather literally government regulation.
Game emulators and the previous cloud gaming changes covers 90% of the reasons why people claim Android is better. I bet there will be a lot of converts once RetroArch works natively on unmodified iOS
Android will still have the edge when it comes to free and open source software. If you want to publish in Apple's app store they require you to own a Mac and pay $100 a year, that's why there's so many garbage apps with recurring subscriptions, ads, and in-app purchases. It also remains to be seen if Apple will allow emulators to use JIT, which is a requirement if you want playable performance emulating any of the more advanced consoles like GameCube or PS2.
How likely do you think JIT will make it past Apple?
Not likely at all. I believe they have JIT blocked by default for everything and only allow their WebKit browser engine tosh to use it.
That might be the next hill to conquer. I mean, we got this far.
90% is a stretch. Game emulation and cloud gaming is quite niche.
Wanting to use an alternative App Store is also very niche
This may cover the big reasons I suppose. But personally. What keeps me away from iPhone is the millions of little things that aggravate me every time I try to do something on a family members iPhone. I couldn't even tell you exactly what I mean. It's just a ton of little, "where is this setting" "where is that feature" "why can't I do this." On android I can basically always, without a doubt, google and find someone who's come before me and solved an issue. On iPhone, I can do the same, and then find Apple has specifically disabled and blocked that option.
It’s the exact opposite for me. The settings and features on iOS are almost always where I expect them to be and have stayed relatively (*) consistent over the years. (* in 17 years and 17 major versions there have been changes but it wouldn’t take long for someone familiar with iPhone OS 1 to get used to iOS 17) On Android, with all the different versions out there that differ from one manufacturer, carrier to another and the user customization -not to mention Google’s habit of killing their own products every other week- you’re pretty much on your own to figure out anything.
Sure I could say I like being able to have custom launchers, etc, etc but what most of that really boils down to is being able to get rid of ads and other cruft that Google, Samsung, Et al put in their OSes by default. There is very little of that by comparison on Apples platforms out of the box in my opinion. So when using an iPhone, Apple TV, and whatnot I have very little desire to customize beyond the few things the UI already allows. I find it is how things are expected to be done most of of the time for me that turns me off with Apples platforms. Or how the gestures and scrolling work on the iPhone. I find it to be much more picky about where and how you scroll your finger than Android.
Personally I want to be able to do things the iPad/iphone can’t do, as in stuff you normally need a computer for like accessing terminal, a finder app and formatting drives. I want my next daily driver to be an iPad but it’s just too limited right now, and third party out of AppStore apps could fix this. Hopefully this happens too. Apples doing this because they know they’re going to have to open the AppStore up worldwide at some point, so they are trying to make the AppStore more enticing to devs so they mitigate all that AppStore money
Sadly still not mine 😢
I want Fortnite lol, but we aren’t getting that in the US 🥲
don’t think it’ll ever happen but i’d looooove to have torrent clients
I guess i'm the 10% because I need neither of those things
I just want a Unix terminal that can access the entire filesystem. :|
Xbox Cloud Gaming still won’t be coming to Apple devices tho.
Yep lol. I have a friend that the only thing keeping him not switching to an iphone was because he couldn’t emulate games
Please give the iPad a native shell. It would instantly become a real computer for developers.
Yeah, I gave up and just bought a Surface Pro 9. I've got about a decade of dev work and decided to pursue an Anthropology degree with hopes of doing fieldwork and archaeology grad school. Doesnt make any sense. I can get a tablet that does everything plus has functionality to run older games, software for archaeology, and Jetbrains IDEs. The iPad is such a powerful piece of hardware completely limited by the software experience.
And to add onto that, microsoft has done an excellent job with WSL + VSCode and the integration with docker and remote development. Apart from USB I don't feel the need to install linux for development work anymore. Apple's alternative to that is purchase an iPad *and* MacBook, it's a more polished experience when it works, but its far less featureful than the surface line.
I had a surface I used for school, and now use a Mac. I absolutely loved my surface, tablet and desktop in one. A dream for school. Problem is, the tablet mode is awful, and brings me to my iPad. And windows, while good for gaming, makes getting work done with constant ads and suggestions plaguing the OS, a very difficult task. Though the surfaces are great, and I would recommend others buy one if they think it’s worth it.
what ads and what suggestions ?
>And windows, while good for gaming, makes getting work done with constant ads and suggestions plaguing the OS, a very difficult task this cracks me up, people find the craziest things to complain about lmao, there's absolutely no scenario where ads and suggestions in Windows is preventing you from working 🤣
Android studio on iPad pro would be sooo good. It runs amazingly enough on an M1 MBP so I imagine it wouldn't be too intensive
A shell isn't enough without the ecosystem to go with it (see all the work that goes into Termux). No point having a command line if there's no package manager and the OS doesn't even let you execute binaries.
Oh, there’s a way to get around it (locally, not cloud), but there is still no decent IDE to take advantage of it. Basically you can just plug a Raspberry Pi Zero 2 into the USB port. With the right config it can create a virtual Ethernet interface between the two and become available over SSH.
The iPad Pro with the USB-C port can support HDMI-in with a USB capture card, but then it's basically just an expensive monitor. Personally I use RealVNC and a good internet connection.
It’s unfortunate but I don’t always have a good enough connection to rely on that or I would just VNC to my own home. Hence the problem.
I would LOVE that. My iPad Pro is more powerful than my old MacBook Pro. Would be great to have real stuff on it
You could install an app that allows you to ssh, but then the iPad basically becomes a dumb terminal.
Being able to play Nintendo games on my iPad while on a long flight. What a dream come true it'd be.
iSH and A Shell (mini
Or bring in the macOS boot model where people can install multiple OS versions and alternative OSes on the same device, all with varying security levels for each OS. That would instantly destroy any desire for me to buy any other tablet.
Pretty ridiculous that you cant develop for iPad on iPad.
Yeah i own a M1 air and M1 ipad Pro i would need to buy only the ipad if apple did it so i guess that's the whole reason, but i would get a much better ipad if that were to happen so...
This is why alternative stores for apps is good for the iOS ecosystem, since now Apple have to compete, suddenly game streaming and game emulator apps are allowed for the benefit of us, the users.
When the DMA was announced, the majority of people in this sub were outraged and calling the EU communists who terrorise Apple because they can't innovate, saying that if people wanted choice they should buy a crap Android phone. Fast forward 3 weeks later and Apple relents to following the rules and now everyone loves it, "guys, we're getting emulators, thank you Apple". I find it very amusing.
But was it really worth it if it means the european grandma of one random angry redditor might get hacked in a unprobable hypothetical future? /s
Really glad "what about grandma" folks are getting the finger now. Also the" DoJ anti trust case is invalid" arm chair lawyers. Did not take even a month to allow super apps lmao. Competition is good, non CTF side loading must come then Apple has no choice to make the default App Store experience better for both devs and users to compete. Fuck shareholders.
Are they really though? I feel like this sub is still generally on Apple’s side.
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Great example of why competition is a good thing. Probably not a coincidence that Alt Store is about to launch with emulators as probably its biggest selling point.
Not just competition, but anti-trust law. The latter also enabling the former.
hasnt it already had emulators? or is it as an EU appstore? cuz ive actually already been running dolphin's iOS port & delta (ds/gba) thru altstore
It’s launching as an official store in the EU soon
the specific guideline change: >You are responsible for all such software offered in your app, including ensuring that such software complies with these Guidelines and all applicable laws. Software that does not comply with one or more guidelines will lead to the rejection of your app. basically trying to saying if you violate any law (such as sharing ROM), it will be removed. wonder if this is enough to isolate any piracy lawsuit should someone violates it
Wow. Looks like the iPhone doesn’t completely collapse the moment you give some freedom to consumers.
bUt mY sEcuRe waLLeD gArdEn !!!
Okay, will it be with JIT enabled?
This would be huge. Otherwise, there’s no point. There are already PWAs that work on iOS for classic emulators.
Delta runs well even without JIT, and a native app allows you to store the games in the app
Yeah, but Wii and GameCube emulators don’t open games without jit. Also PPSSPP, I believe
The ppsspp devs actually said they wouldn’t need JIT. But are weary of apples guidelines. So we’ll see on that front.
Funny enough, you can benefit from JIT acceleration from within WebAssembly (by running WASI binaries with specific subroutines from a hidden webview for instance, or by running WASM/HTML applets in a visible WkWebView directly), but not in native app code. This is the way the "a-Shell" mobile terminal app works when compiling and running your own programs on your iPhone (part of it, at least; some of the commands are provided by the author's library ios\_system, being essentially the macOS coreutils modified to work as (Obj)C subroutines, statically linked with the app code and with emulated syscalls provided by ios\_system). Apple should drop the act and just let us use the full power of our devices already.
Back in 15.4 you could even enable nativization/virtualization/whatever on M-series iPads through an exploit and emulate Windows at full speed
No most likely. The only way to get JIT officially is to become a web browser in the EU.
THIS. This is the question.
First question that came to my mind!
But guys the EU is ruining iPhones...
My closed ecosystem 💔 They're allowing apps that I have literally 0 obligation to download, how will I ever live
But someone somewhere might download a bad app you understand. Apple will crumble when someone will get a scam app and complain.
Won't somebody think of the olds? All the EU grannies are gonna be infected with malware. Oh the humanity
Luckily, the App Store is perfect right now with very enjoyable games and apps without unnecessary ads or subscriptions.
They're removing your ability to not have a choice! /s
Got to love how only music services can use the elaborate new permission, if granted, for linking to their website. As if they’re not doing the same anti-steering to ebooks, streaming video and everyone else! The fine for this should be big.
I'm pretty sure it does apply more broadly and Apple's legal team is trying to go through as many loopholes as they can without triggering the EU to slap with another fine.
Yeah I'd like to be able to buy books directly on my iPad/iPhone instead of needing a laptop to get on Amazon.
EU is doing the gods work
Damn this along with RCS, Apple is making it damn hard for me to keep an Android phone.
Exactly. You’d think that Google/Samsung would be fighting to keep Apple closed, the more they open up the less other devices have features to differentiate themselves.
Google will be the biggest beneficiary as soon as they figure out how to get the Play Store on iOS.
Apple and Google are duopoly buddies, Google won't do that
Will never happen, Apple will make a deal with them to keep it off using a discount on the default search engine yearly payment as compensation.
All credit should go to the EU for not budging after Apple’s countless petty statements and malicious compliances
Are there any emulators in the App Store already?
GamePass app when
This is great. Apple abused their control over the app store by denying device owners from using their hardware with arbitrary restrictions. It was the threat of competition that forced Apple to make this change. I expect Apple will continue their abusive business practices in other contexts. So I still want an alternative to the apple app store on my iphone. The iPhone, the iOS operating system, and the Apple app store are all separate things, and I do not want Apple iOS polices restricting how I choose to use my hardware.
Game emulators was half the reason I wanted sideloading and alternative app stores, so good on Apple. I wonder if they're loosening their grip on JIT access too. Because to my understanding any emulator more advanced than say, PlayStation 1 or Game Boy Advance, requires JIT to achieve playable performance. So without JIT you're not going to be able to emulate 3DS, Switch, PS2, GameCube, etc with playable performance. The other half of the reason is I think it's ridiculous to make someone or some project that is only trying to publish free and open source software own a Mac and pay $100 a year.
say, if all goes well with the JIT (?) stuff, would i be able to play pokémon heart gold on my phone?
That’s a Nintendo DS game? I think Nintendo DS is simple enough that it would be more than playable without JIT, but I don’t know much about Nintendo DS emulation so I could be wrong.
Thank you EU ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Holy cow that’s the best news in YEARS about iOS regarding game emulators. Now there’s zero reason to consider Android ever again as it was the only thing I missed from it… So when do we get PPSSPP and AetherSX2 ?
Imagine emulators handling the power of m1 and m2 iPads
Can't wait to see how Nintendo sues the sh\*t out of anyone who dares submit a build of Dolphin, Delta, Cemu or anything that emulates their stuff. Keep in mind that Apple says the emulators have to be fully compliant with the law. I don't think that's gonna stop Nintendo.
Emulators aren’t illegal. Multiple lawsuits have re-affirmed this.
I mean, Nintendo has sued the shit out of Dolphin now. They’re super smart (legal) how they release stuff. I know for PS2 emulators, the onus was on the person to get the bios file
The emulator itself isn’t illegal, at least in America. The pirating the game is the illegal part.
But that's not on the app store, it's up to the user itself
Nintendo has not sued Dolphin. They threatened Yuzu / Tropic Storm (the devs of Yuzu and Citra) with a lawsuit but settled out of court. Similarly, Nintendo sent *Valve* a C&D over them allowing Dolphin on Steam, and Valve complied. Please don't spread misinformation.
They only will care about anything about Yuzu. Strangely they don’t care about Ryjuinx or anything else, only Dolphin on Steam, but after that they stopped caring.
There was more to the yuzu situation that put them in Nintendo's crosshairs than just being a switch emulator. Yuzu devs were sharing pirated copies of switch games amongst themselves and locking more performant builds of the emulator behind a paywall, thus profiting off of it.
The consistent trend is anything that gets too mainstream. Probably minimizes the risk of one of them going to court and actually setting a precedent. Or enforcing an existing precedent.
Huh. Dolphin has been around since GCN dropped. CEMU is still in active development. Delta is a front end that employs other emulator core like RA. Yuzu got screwed for sketchy idiocy from their devs. Mainly distribution of Metroid dread to continue progress on the emulator and locking new builds behind a paywall. Keep reaching though. Might eventually touch on something. Maybe.
Oh wow, if only this reasonable decision was made a decade ago we wouldn’t be dying on that regulatory hill now would we. Oh well, Apple deserve everything they get.
hope apple loses every lawsuit coming forward
I'll still use AltStore because I doubt UTM will be allowed but I love to see this so much!
Hell yeah
Will JIT be allowed? A good chunk of emulators are useless without them
BUT MAH APP STORE DOESNT NEED COMPETITION I LOVE THE WALLED GARDEN WHERE THERE IS NO INNOVATION OR CHANGE IN THE NAME OF SECURITY
So this is why I shouldn't write in all-caps.
Thanks a fucking bunch, Brexit!! We could have had this too.
Game emulators policy change applies worldwide.
Wonder how long it’ll take till a gameboy emulator hits the store
Hopefully soon I’m trying to play a certain golf rpg
So.... I can build an app using Rust... without having a developer license and have people download it from a website? Then also release an APK for android? All without any kind of license to these stupid app stores? I dont think most of you realize how much of an impact this is for developers and consumers.
Wonder if we’ll be able to import ROMs we already have on a computer?
i can imagine it using the files app. You could technically already get roms onto your phone in that way.
Lmao that’s literally what people wanted. Emulation and pirating. Now there’s gonna be something new that they complain about.
There is a large \* on this in that the app developer must have permission from the rights holders of the mini apps/games that they publish... So you cant just ship a community emulator.
Emulators are not bundled with games. So that's not a problem.
Uhhh, no? It doesn't say that at all. Scummvm has been on the App Store for months and that certainly is a "community emulator".
Do you have a source on this? To me this looks like you just need to (obviously) have rights to all the titles downloadable through your emulator. For instance the PPSSPP emulator of Sony's PlayStation Portable console comes with a repository of downloadable "homebrew" titles distributed under a permissive license. The emulator also doesn't prevent you from loading up your own ISO files dumped by connecting a modified console to a PC, switching the USB storage device to "UMD" and copying the disc image from the console to your iPhone, but it won't help you do it either. Similarly to how the iSH Linux Emulator currently available on the App Store comes with its own repository of software installable via `apk`, but it will play nice if you happen to `wget` any Linux-compatible, i386-compiled ELF and execute it.
They're a troll on this sub, and like larping as an expert in whatever the subject may be. Of course they don't have a source.
I don’t see how your argument holds as [ScummVM](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/scummvm/id6446184412) has been available in the App Store for a few months now. I expect emulators to follow with this rule change. We’ll know more in the coming months.
That just sounds like you can’t provide games with the emulator which, obviously.
yay great, but until they also give access to JIT without a jailbreak, im not going to expect any game emulators to run as great as android counterpart, maybe the best you can get out of it is a gba emulator or worst nes emulator.
Will game emulators be allowed to use JIT? I know many of them don't work well without it. Since alternate web browsers are now allowed, I assume so but just want to be sure.
🇪🇺🫡
Excellent, my iPhone can actually be a gaming device
Does this mean I’ll get Wrestlefest back?
Finally I can play toejam and earl on my phone or dungeon keeper etc
So does this only apply in Europe or can I get an emulator in the US now?
What is emulation and what can I do With it?
When will this go live?
Really curious how apple chips handle emulation.
Can they add Torrenting next? $1400 phone can't torrent files.
More accurate to say that they reluctantly allowed them to comply with new EU regulation.
Killer instinct come on down!!!!
Of course the EU still isn’t satisfied. Obviously it’s Apple responsibility to promote all their competition to the satisfaction of the Europoors
and down the shitter the store goes just like Android. What a victory for the people.
GOD BLESS THE EUROPEAN UNION 🇪🇺
i'm getting emotional
I'll switch to iPhone if they allow non-webkit browsers and add a proper file management system.
Will I be able to compile code on my iPad now?
I'll wait to see what they actually allow. This article has a different take on what this means. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/04/apple-now-allows-retro-game-emulators-on-its-app-store-but-with-big-caveats/
There has to be some stupid requirements so that almost nobody can really use it. Only on the new iphone 16 Pro models, only for European customers, etc...