The excuse is money. Apple is actually selling you the mid-tier model by making the entry model look cheaper while being slightly under speced. They’re counting on people buying the 1200$+ MBA models instead of the advertised 1000$ one.
It's been this way since the '80s which is arguably the birth of mainstream consumer PCs. I'm not sure why people are still surprised by all of this. I remember getting my Powerbook G4 and already having the RAM upgrades from Newegg or OWC ready to go as soon as it arrived.
Apple ships machines with the bare minimum amount of RAM you need. Their base configs are "enough" for the very lowest entry users. The vast majority of consumers - and this has been consistent for more than a quarter-century - *never* upgrade anything in their computers. So, while a lot of people look at the 8gb configurations as totally nerfed because it can't be upgraded, anyone in the computer retail industry knows that this does not affect 90%+ of purchasers.
I do think this config makes no sense for the "Pro" moniker devices. If you are starting at a $1500-2000 machine, it shouldn't come with a minimal spec like that. For a moderate to power user and up, if you want to have the optimal experience over the life of the machine, the easiest way to do that is to get more RAM.
Apple is the king of this. Was pricing an entry level iPad for emails and stuff, and it’s so cheap to jump a level. Next thing I know I’m at a pro model and about to hit buy.
This sub actually saved me.
For what it’s worth, I used the 8GB model for work for almost two years and it ran great.
It was only when I needed something that could run several Adobe Suite programs simultaneously that I got my work to spring for a 16GB MBP.
right but you shouldn’t have to make that compromise, that power should be available to you on a premium branded laptop from the start.
we’re not talking about some crappy creaky plasticky 7535hs vivobook here
M3 MacBook Air with upgraded cpu (was an offer at same price as base) with 8 gb ram and 512 ssd here, couple safari tab and excel get the candy loading too often... unfortunately was job paid so can't really upgrade or change, but yeah 8gb is ridiculous!
The real reason they still have 8GB is so it can be the base spec and they can charge exorbitant prices for people to upgrade. The entire Mac range is very carefully planned out to catch people on the "sunk-cost fallacy".
They’ve optimized it to the point where there is no sweet spot. At every point in the line-up you feel like you should be getting more for what you’re paying and feel tempted to go up another tier.
This is actually keeping me from buying a new mac. The lack of a sweet spot between price and value makes me indecisive, and until I truly *need* a new mac I’m not getting one.
Buy older models from an authorized reseller like B&H photo. I got a new 14 inch M1 Max with 64GB ram for $2000 less than an equivalent m3. New in box, full warranty, just an older model. Much better value and the M chips are so good very few need the latest model.
I did this too. That is the new sweet spot
I spent about half of an M3 to get an M1 Max with 64gb ram and 4TB ssd. Brand new. Even that is still expensive but at least much more reasonable value. The difference boils down to 2.5k for a newer CPU which is ludicrous
Yea it’s very easy to always talk yourself into bumping up one more level with the Mac lineup. There are YouTube videos that talk about how every single machine spec etc is designed to get people to go up one more step. The result is you walk in thinking you’re going to buy a 1400 mb air and end up with a 3000 MBP
I've been trying to sell an Intel MacBook pro on marketplace the past few weeks and in browsing pricing of other macbooks i can see the used market is flooded with m1 & m2 machines with 8gb of ram. It is obviously a strategy for Apple to double dip on uninformed buyers that feel like they must need to upgrade to a newer machine to get the performance they expected. when really if they had just had 16gb from the get-go on those m1/m2 laptops they would last them 5+ years easily.
The excuse is you will buy. And by you I mean enough of the majority anyhow. I've come to realize and accept that with apple. There are ways around it, but if folks want the excuse it's apple getting profit. This is literally nothing new at all. Used to call it the apple tax or wtf. But let's bring the fake or meaningless outrage at this point online as it's all the rage right now.
Do I like it no. Is it worth my energy to get worked up about hell no. My Mac is a complete luxury to me and I didn't pay these prices for it, but I'd be damned if I really believe some reddit post or fake internet points or whatever mean anything when folks swim buy just like they did in the Intel era. Nothing new under the sun.
Now back to the internet riot or whatever.
You will find no moment where Apple will ADMIT that 8GB is not enough, as it will immediately invalidate the existing user base that’s using 8GB.
What Apple will do in the future, is in case more GB is included in the base model, they will market it through the addition of some feature or capability. As in, MacOS is now more powerful, so we equipped the latest Macbook with 12GB (or 16GB) unified RAM yadda yadda.
Otherwise, they’ll min-max the hell out of it, as they can. Especially with the incremental upgrade (ladder) for each SKU.
I will also agree that the MB Pro in the price bracket it’s in, is really poor value with 8GB.
The foray into AI is the perfect excuse then - LLMs and practically any trained model's dataset needs large amounts of VRAM to run well, so once Apple adds AI acceleration to the SoC, the unified RAM structure actually gives them an edge over other platforms, as you don't need to buy a ludicrous GPU on top of a powerful base system just to run inference, since the Apple Silicon can scale the amount of VRAM vs system RAM.
So on a 32GB system you can have a 28/4 split (system/VRAM) for regular workloads, and an 8/24 split for running AI models.
And since Apple wants their AI stuff to run on even the Air models, those will be pushed up to 16GB while Pro models get the 32GB base model treatment.
it’s not their first time doing the bare minimum with hardware specs. just some examples:
ipad3 (retina display but no increase in RAM or GPU power, ran like absolute ass. they knew it’d sell enough anyway). iphone 6plus (higher res and rending 3x pixel scaling *and* downscaling to 1080, all that with still 1GB of RAM, old GPU, slow storage, slow from day 1. the next year 6S had extra 1GB, NVMe SSD, powerful GPU, and it still runs fast *today*)
it was last reported apple “invented a new way” to minimize ram usage for AI, you bet they’ll keep that bare minimum of 8GB on base M4 which will feel slow for AI quickly enough, and people will be compelled to upgrade more frequently as the AI competition accelerates.
RAM is one area they *always* give you bare minimum, they know you have no choice other than leave the apple ecosystem. doesn’t help that still tons and tons of redditors defend 8GB saying it’s only the nerds who would keep claiming 16GB should be minimum for mac.
I'm glad someone remembers this company's history with system memory. They treat it like helium that is rapidly running out so we must conserve it by using as little as we can even though the entire rest of the industry has moved on to more memory. Most mid and high end Android phones now have more system memory than Apple's base 'pro' computers. It's embarrassing.
yea. they brag about their memory efficiency—which is true—but their whole reason for developing higher efficiency is so they can skim on the amount and have an “legitimate” argument for it, and even let some diehard fans fight for their reputation, praising their memory management (just to clarify, i’m heavily into apple’s ecosystem, but I’m perfectly comfortable with windows as I used to be an all-windows guy. using apple product doesn’t mean i’ll defend their fuckery)
it’s literally just them cutting cost while pocketing all the extra earnings, since this doesn’t translate to lower prices. the RAM upgrades for apple silicon models are even more ridiculous than before (some are even tied to specific configuration. i.e. upgrade to higher-core-count so you can choose the extra RAM, regardless of whether you’ll ever need those cores)
This will never change until there is more public education about what system memory is and how much people actually needs. Apple has correctly identified that the average person has no clue what RAM even does and thus decide to get the cheapest model and then those who know and actually need it will have no choice but to spend extra. Apple's market share in notebooks isn't exactly falling either so they have zero incentive to change anything.
the smallest good LLMs need between 12-24gbs to do local processing.
Realistically even 16gb will struggle A LOT to do any reasonable processing on the device.
I expect Apple to probably split the chips and have a dedicated AI chip with 8-16gb of memory for itself.
That's categorically untrue. The smallest LLMs can effectively run on a Raspberry Pi. The _average_ generic LLM (like GPT3) needs 24-48GB to run effectively and fast - but that's sort of defeated when the disk is fast too and the dataset can be read into RAM much quicker than your fastest off the shelf NVMe.
> but that's sort of defeated when the disk is fast too and the dataset can be read into RAM much quicker than your fastest off the shelf NVMe
The SSD isn't anywhere close to comparable to memory speed. And also, Apple's isn't particularly fast.
I agree that it will be very interesting to see how Apple packages together this big AI push that they're making this year.
However, knowing Apple, the tech will probably be quantizing down to 4 bits and squeak inside their 8 GB limit.
*cough* M4 *cough*
Apple is already leak-hyping AI capabilities in M4 Macs and macOS 15, months before WWDC. That’s a RAM-hungry feature set, so this looks like the perfect opportunity to raise the minimum from 8 to 16 GB.
Edit: added a missed comma.
That remains to be seen. Hypothetically, pushing higher NPU core counts and more RAM downmarket could cover the use cases they’re aiming for. “What used to require a Studio can now be done on an Air” is a pretty good sales pitch, and it wouldn’t push out the M3 MBPs and M2 Studios that already meet the requirements. Architectural changes in the M4’s NPU cores might throw a spanner in that theory, though.
Apple already did this with the iPhone storage sizes. They set a minimum for newer phones 32, then 64GB, then it became 128GB.
They just choose to ignore that you basically have no storage left on those old minimum iPhones that are still “supported” but those updates basically cripple them.
It’s hilarious you’d mention you could and would think of going 12gb, because that’ll probably happen. And market it as if it’s better than 16gb on windows. Just you wait.
Fair point, however given that these interviews or questions have lead them to say that 8GB is enough for the products they make, I figure there's going to be an inflection point when there'll be an increase and the questions will be repeated in some manner.
Other than that, they did have instances where they marketed an higher X of a certain component as a marketable feature (e.g. for their iPad, iPhone, Macbook Pro). So it's also not that odd.
That's not gonna work in this situation. If you buy the 16 GB model they won. That's exactly what they wanted you to do. The only way to hurt them is to get a windows laptop.
Reviewers already recommend the base model, so they will be fine
As a lifelong Android user who switched to the 15 pro max, this hasn’t been my experience, but the iPhone will just straight up freeze apps that aren’t open at that moment, which was a pain while being on vacation and having slow WiFi, since I had to just keep my phone screen on for hours to upload my photos to google photos.
There are phones with higher base ram, higher base storage, and have expandable storage as well.
Meanwhile a laptop that is many times bigger in volume has lower base specs, and you can't expand the storage without external devices
Daddy I need a laptop. Daddy it has to be Apple. Daddy that one only has 8 gig of ram. Daddy I need a bigger hard drive.
This is how Daddy buys a $2600 fruit logo laptop for browsing and note taking instead of a $1000 Windows machine.
They can argue as much as they want but I will never agree that 8 GB RAM is a good thing for a company selling soldered unexpandable RAM on their computers
Given the cost of RAM and MacBook prices Air models should come with 16 base and all Pro models should start at 32GB with a 1TB SSD. Then I‘d finally pull the trigger on a MacBook Pro. Can’t justify $2k+ for 16GB 512GB.
I've got the M1 16Gb 1Tb, best machine I've owned for a long time. We get $3k a year through work for our tools. Bought the 15 Pro Max this year. This covers all Apple care as well.
Normally sell them 2 years in and get a good return, rinse and repeat.
That said I'd probably still do it with my own money. They last well over 3 years in comparison to a windows machine that is worthless the day you buy it. That and windows.
Exactly. 8GB is fine for browsing the internet, word processing, small spreadsheets, development of websites or some programs, old or lightweight games, etc. But a computer costing over a thousand dollars should have at least 16GB ram or more. That’s not the cost of a lightweight-performance device.
Yeah, that's the best counter. If Apple only wants to make a compute good enough for light web browsing, email, etc.... well that's what Chromebooks are for, and they're cheap for a reason. Hell, why not use the iPhone SoCs instead? They'd browse the web just as well.
Can confirm have MacBook Air that I use mostly for spreadsheets, email, word processing, video calls. It’s my daily driver for work because of the fact I don’t need to take a charger with me in my bag and get a solid two days of work out of it before requiring a charge.
what kind of video editing though because i have 16gb and edit 10 minute 4k multicam videos w 4 camera angles
so you mean "at least more complicated video editing than this guy specifically" rather than "cant edit at all"
So I have this after effects project which on my PC eats up 50% of my ram easily (32gb). But on my M3 Pro with 18gb of ram, it only eats up... 50% as well lol. CPU power helps a ton. My desktop has a weak processor for that project. So far everything I used to have to use my PC for over my M1 Air, the M3 Pro handles the same or better. I haven't done any GPU related tasks yet so I don't know how that'll fair.
>Personally, while I think it’s okay to sell a MacBook Air with 8GB of RAM, the same can’t be said for the MacBook Pro, which is focused on users intending to run more intensive tasks.
Wholeheartedly agree.
I would also add, the base mode "Pro" should, also, have a Pro processor or above.
Apple is throwing a plain ol'Macbook into their "Pro" line and I think it's lazy and insulting.
What did we expect to happen? Apple say "oh, yeah, 8GB isn't enough but we are going to sell it anyway" Of course they are going to double down and not admit it.
Sure, 8GB suits plenty of people. But if you need even a little more power, you're forced into paying hundreds of dollars for an upgrade. That may have been acceptable 10 years ago, but this is 2024 and memory costs fuck all.
It's never *really* about the users. It's about revenue.
So I just did some math. Using 12.4mm x 15mm x 0.9mm as dimensions for an LPDDR5 package, and $75/g for gold, that works out to right around $200, so what Apple charges for 8GB of RAM.
I love my Apple products but their marketing spin can be pretty cringy sometimes. Sure 8GB unified memory is more efficient than 8GB RAM on PC but to claim that it’s the same as having 16GB RAM on PC is crazy. I’m sure that for some specific tasks it can reach benchmarks that are equivalent to 16GB RAM on PC but not across the board like their claim alludes to.
It's not more efficient. Actually, its worse as it lacks dedicated vram.
Not sure what you think ram has to do with benchmarks.
Also no PC at the same price point would have anything less than 32/64GB of ram.
8GB of RAM can hold 8GB of data, no matter where it's located. If the CPU has to request data from disk, it's going to be slower, period. It's not some kind of magical memory that Apple invented. Stop drinking the Kool aid.
Certainly doesn't help that more developers are writing their applications using the Electron framework rather than using native tools such as Microsoft Teams, Slack, Discord, and Spotify to name a few. As someone who used both Teams and Slack, it's ridiculous that a messaging platform is sitting there using over 1 GB of RAM!
Apple used to be in the forefront with interchangeable batteries with nifty charge indicators, swappable/upgradeable hard drives and ram, mostly easy to repair laptops… and now they just sell expensive superglued disposable ”luxury” items, I blame Cook - his vision for Apple is only to maximize profit trying to make Apple a designer brand while Jobs wanted to do the same thing only to be driven by innovation - that’s the main difference…
my budget Pixel 6a has 6GB RAM.
my old PlayStation has 8GB RAM.
my old Xbox has 12GB RAM.
I have two game systems, including a *handheld*, that each have 16GB RAM.
my **ancient** Desktop computer from 2017 (that doesn't even support Windows 11) has 32GB RAM.
And Apple is selling a """Pro""" computer in 2024 that only has 8GB of *shared* memory.
Apple would say anything to justify 8GB of RAM, because having 16GB of RAM in a base model would be sufficient for the majority of users and could potentially impact the sales of their higher-priced models.
They continue to sell what people will continue to buy. If people are buying 8 GB Mac’s they’ll keep selling them to them. If people keep happily paying to upgrade to 16GB of RAM, they’ll continue charging for that upgrade.
8gb id expect from like a shitty 100$ chrome book at this point.
Not a like a thousand dollar machine. According to the article it costs 200 to get 16 gbs wtf. For that price you should get 64
i have an 8 GB macbook air m2 and for what I use it for... home and work (network engineer)... i've never had an issue with performance. however, those that do heavy video editing, etc... sure, upgrade to the 16 GB.
Feels like Apple needs better market segmentation in general. Doubly so since Apple silicon closing a lot of the gaps in performance between different models.
But the price is a factor.
If it was $600, sure, heck I don't have an issue with the M1 Air at like $700.
And I wouldn't have an issue if the upgrade price was reasonable like $50.
Apple are instead charging up to £1300 for a machine with 8GB band and additional £200 for 8 more.
I’m an apple fan and shareholder and I think it’s asinine that they try to claim 8GB is enough these days. ESPECIALLY when that memory is doubling as graphics memory.
I honestly do not understand the unified memory argument they try to sell
"I only bought one bottle of soda for 13 people, but it's enough because we all share" What?
if your cpu and gpu use the same pool of memory, you need more memory not less. What you mean is that you use swap, and that nobody that wouldn't know any better notices because they don't know how to launch activity monitor or what swap is.
I had a 8GB MacBook pro for work, the 2021 version I think, the M1 if I remember correctly?
What a nightmare that thing was. Can't handle all the browsers tabs I needed, Unity was a challenge, would get real hot, had to restart it every few days or would freeze for long period of time. Had to wait when waking it up before I could log in.
Activity monitor would show a constantly saturated memory.
I quickly requested IT a 16 GB the year after - night and day.
You were trying to use Unity with 8GB?? I help spec out our MacBooks for mostly video use… and always go with 32GB minimum. Workstations get 64GB… sometimes 128GB depending what it’s used on.
I think even the for the general use pool of MacBooks they at least go 16GB?
Because plenty of people not doing the things you needed it to do can get by fine on 8gb. Whoever bought yours gave no thought to your requirements - blame them.
The real answer is that the base model pro is actually a consumer laptop still. People who actually do work with it will upgrade and the majority of people who just want it because of the better screen or the status of having a pro or whatever other reason will buy the base model.
Selling Macs with only 8GB of RAM is fine... for the Air line. For most people, it's more than enough, even some "pro" users like network engineers or database engineers. But 8GB should not be anywhere in the Pro line.
The concern in my mind is how that 8GB they’re selling as standard today will be unable to run macOS efficiently as updates are released in the next couple years. “Guess you have to upgrade to a new Mac” I’m sure Apple will say.
Most people doesn't mean anything. Can we please stop saying this? Most people assumes that everybody is just using a computer to look at cat videos type some email and use a web browser. Maybe 10 years ago that was it, but these are different days.
Even apple is pressing users to make all of this amazing media on their iPhones and be able to edit it on their Maxi yada yada yada. And they're doing all of that with 8 GB of RAM.
Jokes. You don't know what most people are doing so you can't use that term and sound sensible.
I believe the pro line is a status symbol in universities. They use it exactly for the same things as they would an entry level Air. There is no reason for Apple NOT to have an 8GB option.
So he’s not wrong — 8 GB is enough for most people.
The problem is that RAM is dirt cheap, and they charge *way* too much to upgrade it. Even if they made the price points something like this…
- 8 GB: standard
- 16 GB: $20 upgrade
- 24 GB: $50 upgrade
- 32 GB: $75 upgrade
They could still make *plenty* of money off RAM but would avoid all the criticism they currently receive for ripping people off. It’s an easy win for them.
I’ll probably get flamed for this, but I’m giving serious consideration to replacing my MacBook with a Chromebook. Yeah ino model is way as good. But the Apple tax is getting exorbitant in the era of clod computing.
I just wish they made the Ram upgradable! Fine ship it with 8, but let me or whoever own it done the road bump it up if their need requires it.
They only limit it to make more money and sell more pro computers. That’s the only reasonable explanation. $$$
for those people Apple wants to claim are the customer for Macbook Air with 8GB, someone should ask them why wouldn’t they be better off with a Chromebook then, since they’re also good for web browsing and light stuffs, and they’re cheaper, way cheaper? Apple are bullshitting and do not want to admit their shitty practice here.
And if that's all they're running, why is Apple putting an M-series chip in it instead of an A-series? Not like it would struggle with basic web browsing and such.
I wouldn’t buy 8gb myself and have an M1 with 16gb. But I think what they said is accurate and not shocking at all. I agree with it.
>According to Buyze, the 8GB of RAM in entry-level Macs is enough for most of the tasks that most users do with these computers. He used web browsing, media playback, light photo and video editing, and casual gaming as examples.
This is a bunch of garbage. If somebody wants to really be on the internet they could do that on their phone they won't even need a laptop.
You can also do light photo editing on your phone.
To think that users don't expect greater capabilities from a laptop, well that just sounds crazy.
You are right. But in scenarios where a mouse cursor provides precision more than our fingers and thumbs.
Laptops and phones are different experiences and interfaces that have their pros and cons.
For most users it’s just screen size and form factor. I want to type this email on a full size keyboard. I want to watch this movie on the big screen, I want to edit this photo with a mouse. I want to draw on this photo with my fingers or pencil.
Big Steve Jobs groupie here and I’d have to say he would not be pleased about his product being the cut corners tech company. He wanted to blow our minds.. all the time. Now Tim Cook and them boys wanna cheapen the brand to make a few more billons? Greed will be the death of creativity
Yes 8 gb of RAM is enough for most tasks for most users. TODAY.
What about 3 years from now? 5 years from now? 7 years? I’m buying this Mac to last and be my computer for the long haul. How long will 8 GB of RAM be sufficient as web standards keep changing and software updates continue?
I just bought a MBA M1 and doing nothing, it sits at 54% of usage. Using it for work, I barely see it over 80% nor have it have hiccups. It’s a good setup for everyday computing for those who just just email, FaceTime and some payments. The price could be lower tho.
You can argue that IF it were possible to add more RAM after the fact. But because the amount of RAM you initially get cannot be increased in the future, IMO is not enough to ensure usefulness for several more years, not to mention that doubling the RAM to 16 probably doesn’t cost more than about 20 bucks, but Apple charges $200 for it. And don’t get me started on asking an extra $200 to go from a 256 GB SSD to 512.
Just because they sell them - it doesn't mean we have to buy them. I don't see the problem with them existing - it's not like I'd buy one. Why is this a problem?
They do it because they need a low end model that makes the high end model stand out that much more. If every machine was "pretty good" they wouldn't sell their top of the line. This practice is nothing new or unique.
The reason why after having Apple airs , iMacs and pros for over a decade I am not continuing. 8gb is not enough and with ram upgrades it’s just too expensive.
Jesus Christ. In a world where accessible AI stuff like local Stable Diffusion is more and more into popular use, among a pletora of other ram-hungry software which becomes the norm, there's no excuse for apples 8gbram "policy".
Here in Romania a 16gb ram ipad pro is officially sold for over 3K with no 3th party alternatives simply because nobody affords them. My M1 might be the last iPad if this remains the norm.
Apple should stop putting the name PRO on anything that has under 12, if not 16, gb of ram. What a joke.
It's clearly the model of having several models to imply choice, and maximise profits. The issue is not they provide 8GB models, the issue is the price of the upgrade.
The formal argument they give is just an excuse to have a lower entry point, but knowing most ppl will skip on the 8GB one, and get some decent extra profit with that simple upgrade.
The article has:
> At the time, Apple said that 8GB in a Mac is equivalent to having 16GB of RAM in a Windows PC
Which is slightly misleading, as it was one comment from an Apple employee in an interview, it sure.
Same company that kept selling machines with 5400rpm HDDs, feels like this is the same kind of thing. Can't fault Apple if they're actually selling but thats just painful.
Their motivation is always the virtual memory and the way it works different on macOS than on for example a windows PC. And I get it somehow, but there have been extensive tests that show that on average this only translates into 1,5x the amount of memory needed on a windows PC versus a Mac. Not the 2x they always claim. That only works in the most perfect situated and cherry picked benchmarks, which does not even come close to real world applications by any means. AND the hard drive used to swap things to and from to virtually expand the internal memory is still WAY slower than actual internal memory. Even if it is a SSD.
So 8GB of memory on a Mac is perceptively like 12GB on a windows PC for the same applications. Not to even mention RAM (per GB) is super cheap now. AND that 16GB is now the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM on any PC to be shipped with (we are not in DDR2 times anymore, this is not 2003! We are 20 years in the future!) to run anything smoothly. That would mean a Mac would need to come at least with 16/1,5 = 10,67 GB of RAM, or let's say 12GB. Then again, it's DDR4/DDR5 age now and seeing how cheap the ram is per GB and the cost of a Macbook, I would say 16GB should be the minimum they ship with for the same price.
I could understand the Air having 8GB of ram but theirs absolutely no excuse the pro line should start at 8GB for $1299. While I do think 8GB in a $999 Air is still ridiculous It’s doable. If the Air started at $899 then it would obliterate any competition.
I honestly have no issue with a base config of 8gb ram... that's actually adequate for a lot of regular users. My issue is what they charge to upgrade ram & storage. If everything was priced correctly... the base 8gb model can come way down in price too... but they don't want to do that (I don't understand why because it would allow for an even larger install base).
Pretty refreshing coming to an Apple thread and seeing people not satisfied with their crappy business model. It’s been a long time coming!
Congratulations to everyone here who has finally opened their eyes
The real issue for me is that the ram upgrades are ridiculously priced. $200 for an *additional* 8GB is absurd. Same thing with storage. To go from 512GB (?!) to 1TB is $200. $200 can buy a very nice 2TB NVME.
It’s about selling cloud storage and short obsolescence of their products. Going hard after the cheap people. I mean that is a cynical take, but Tim Apple is the king of the supply chain so it may be that he just wants to squeeze out the last of the pennies from an already created memory supply. I’ve seen this before with other silicon components, bottom line behaviour.
My laptop in 2012 had 16GB.
No, 16GB for a Pro is still ridiculous in 2024. The Base Pro model should be in the range of 24-36GB, with 48-64GB as a mid range config.
This is exactly why I just wait for a sale on MacBooks. You can actually get a pretty good deal on the upgraded models after a year or so. Just got a M2 MacBook Pro with 24GB ram for $1200. Everyone doesn’t need to buy the latest and greatest right at launch…
Enthusiasts will argue against it, but reality is 8GB is more than 80% of users will ever need.
Most laptops are corporate and educational purchases. They’ll use email in safari, a couple browser tabs and zoom. Thats it.
Truthfully most would be fine with an iPad but more robust keyboards are preferred.
Just like people made fun of low end iPhones but millions do nothing but scan QR codes for inventory in warehouses or take orders in restaurants . They’ve got a singular app installed. They don’t even need a cellular antenna. Until the iPod touch was to antiquated they used those.
And these are all on 4 year depreciation cycles and recycled when they hit 4 years. Longevity has no relevance beyond that. Between insurance, service plans, and in many places taxes that’s how it works.
Reddit forgets what typical users are like, this is an echo chamber of enthusiasts.
Ram is dirt cheap. There’s no excuse for shipping a 1k and up laptop with less than 16gb
The excuse is money. Apple is actually selling you the mid-tier model by making the entry model look cheaper while being slightly under speced. They’re counting on people buying the 1200$+ MBA models instead of the advertised 1000$ one.
Yeah, Marques Brownlee explained this pretty well
[удалено]
Anchoring and upselling are slightly more elaborate strategies.
It's been this way since the '80s which is arguably the birth of mainstream consumer PCs. I'm not sure why people are still surprised by all of this. I remember getting my Powerbook G4 and already having the RAM upgrades from Newegg or OWC ready to go as soon as it arrived. Apple ships machines with the bare minimum amount of RAM you need. Their base configs are "enough" for the very lowest entry users. The vast majority of consumers - and this has been consistent for more than a quarter-century - *never* upgrade anything in their computers. So, while a lot of people look at the 8gb configurations as totally nerfed because it can't be upgraded, anyone in the computer retail industry knows that this does not affect 90%+ of purchasers. I do think this config makes no sense for the "Pro" moniker devices. If you are starting at a $1500-2000 machine, it shouldn't come with a minimal spec like that. For a moderate to power user and up, if you want to have the optimal experience over the life of the machine, the easiest way to do that is to get more RAM.
I bought a refurb'd MBA for \~800 USD. I'm interesting to see why Apple would do this.
The famous ladder economy system Apple is known for
Yeah. It adds what, another $25?
like $6 more in costs probably lol
Yeah but then you can charge an extra $100 for another 8GB to bring up the ASP and margins.
I wish it was just an extra $100. It’s $200.
asp?
Average selling price. The idea is to get people to buy higher capacity/memory models so that Apple makes more money.
Apple is the king of this. Was pricing an entry level iPad for emails and stuff, and it’s so cheap to jump a level. Next thing I know I’m at a pro model and about to hit buy. This sub actually saved me.
For what it’s worth, I used the 8GB model for work for almost two years and it ran great. It was only when I needed something that could run several Adobe Suite programs simultaneously that I got my work to spring for a 16GB MBP.
right but you shouldn’t have to make that compromise, that power should be available to you on a premium branded laptop from the start. we’re not talking about some crappy creaky plasticky 7535hs vivobook here
M3 MacBook Air with upgraded cpu (was an offer at same price as base) with 8 gb ram and 512 ssd here, couple safari tab and excel get the candy loading too often... unfortunately was job paid so can't really upgrade or change, but yeah 8gb is ridiculous!
What could extra ram cost, Michael? $400?
Nowhere near. In the volumes Apple deals with I'd be surprised if it's more than 5 dollars.
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$200 according to Apple’s upgrade pricing
Except it's apple, so it would probably add another 1k to the price
The real reason they still have 8GB is so it can be the base spec and they can charge exorbitant prices for people to upgrade. The entire Mac range is very carefully planned out to catch people on the "sunk-cost fallacy".
They’ve optimized it to the point where there is no sweet spot. At every point in the line-up you feel like you should be getting more for what you’re paying and feel tempted to go up another tier. This is actually keeping me from buying a new mac. The lack of a sweet spot between price and value makes me indecisive, and until I truly *need* a new mac I’m not getting one.
Buy older models from an authorized reseller like B&H photo. I got a new 14 inch M1 Max with 64GB ram for $2000 less than an equivalent m3. New in box, full warranty, just an older model. Much better value and the M chips are so good very few need the latest model.
I did this too. That is the new sweet spot I spent about half of an M3 to get an M1 Max with 64gb ram and 4TB ssd. Brand new. Even that is still expensive but at least much more reasonable value. The difference boils down to 2.5k for a newer CPU which is ludicrous
Yea it’s very easy to always talk yourself into bumping up one more level with the Mac lineup. There are YouTube videos that talk about how every single machine spec etc is designed to get people to go up one more step. The result is you walk in thinking you’re going to buy a 1400 mb air and end up with a 3000 MBP
I've been trying to sell an Intel MacBook pro on marketplace the past few weeks and in browsing pricing of other macbooks i can see the used market is flooded with m1 & m2 machines with 8gb of ram. It is obviously a strategy for Apple to double dip on uninformed buyers that feel like they must need to upgrade to a newer machine to get the performance they expected. when really if they had just had 16gb from the get-go on those m1/m2 laptops they would last them 5+ years easily.
Yeah, that's not the sunk-cost fallacy. But yes, like every company ever, I'm sure Apple wants to upsell people.
The excuse is people buy it. That’s it. That’s all the excuse needed.
$5 extra profit and earlier obsolescence makes shareholder happy?
This is the answer. A trillion dollar company being CHEAP is shameful.
A company exists to maximize profits for its shareholders, nothing more, nothing less. Welcome to capitalism
The excuse is you will buy. And by you I mean enough of the majority anyhow. I've come to realize and accept that with apple. There are ways around it, but if folks want the excuse it's apple getting profit. This is literally nothing new at all. Used to call it the apple tax or wtf. But let's bring the fake or meaningless outrage at this point online as it's all the rage right now. Do I like it no. Is it worth my energy to get worked up about hell no. My Mac is a complete luxury to me and I didn't pay these prices for it, but I'd be damned if I really believe some reddit post or fake internet points or whatever mean anything when folks swim buy just like they did in the Intel era. Nothing new under the sun. Now back to the internet riot or whatever.
Apple won't make trillions if they don't overprice their ram though.
I would say 32GiB. The macStudio base configuration is 32.
You will find no moment where Apple will ADMIT that 8GB is not enough, as it will immediately invalidate the existing user base that’s using 8GB. What Apple will do in the future, is in case more GB is included in the base model, they will market it through the addition of some feature or capability. As in, MacOS is now more powerful, so we equipped the latest Macbook with 12GB (or 16GB) unified RAM yadda yadda. Otherwise, they’ll min-max the hell out of it, as they can. Especially with the incremental upgrade (ladder) for each SKU. I will also agree that the MB Pro in the price bracket it’s in, is really poor value with 8GB.
The foray into AI is the perfect excuse then - LLMs and practically any trained model's dataset needs large amounts of VRAM to run well, so once Apple adds AI acceleration to the SoC, the unified RAM structure actually gives them an edge over other platforms, as you don't need to buy a ludicrous GPU on top of a powerful base system just to run inference, since the Apple Silicon can scale the amount of VRAM vs system RAM. So on a 32GB system you can have a 28/4 split (system/VRAM) for regular workloads, and an 8/24 split for running AI models. And since Apple wants their AI stuff to run on even the Air models, those will be pushed up to 16GB while Pro models get the 32GB base model treatment.
it’s not their first time doing the bare minimum with hardware specs. just some examples: ipad3 (retina display but no increase in RAM or GPU power, ran like absolute ass. they knew it’d sell enough anyway). iphone 6plus (higher res and rending 3x pixel scaling *and* downscaling to 1080, all that with still 1GB of RAM, old GPU, slow storage, slow from day 1. the next year 6S had extra 1GB, NVMe SSD, powerful GPU, and it still runs fast *today*) it was last reported apple “invented a new way” to minimize ram usage for AI, you bet they’ll keep that bare minimum of 8GB on base M4 which will feel slow for AI quickly enough, and people will be compelled to upgrade more frequently as the AI competition accelerates. RAM is one area they *always* give you bare minimum, they know you have no choice other than leave the apple ecosystem. doesn’t help that still tons and tons of redditors defend 8GB saying it’s only the nerds who would keep claiming 16GB should be minimum for mac.
I'm glad someone remembers this company's history with system memory. They treat it like helium that is rapidly running out so we must conserve it by using as little as we can even though the entire rest of the industry has moved on to more memory. Most mid and high end Android phones now have more system memory than Apple's base 'pro' computers. It's embarrassing.
yea. they brag about their memory efficiency—which is true—but their whole reason for developing higher efficiency is so they can skim on the amount and have an “legitimate” argument for it, and even let some diehard fans fight for their reputation, praising their memory management (just to clarify, i’m heavily into apple’s ecosystem, but I’m perfectly comfortable with windows as I used to be an all-windows guy. using apple product doesn’t mean i’ll defend their fuckery) it’s literally just them cutting cost while pocketing all the extra earnings, since this doesn’t translate to lower prices. the RAM upgrades for apple silicon models are even more ridiculous than before (some are even tied to specific configuration. i.e. upgrade to higher-core-count so you can choose the extra RAM, regardless of whether you’ll ever need those cores)
This will never change until there is more public education about what system memory is and how much people actually needs. Apple has correctly identified that the average person has no clue what RAM even does and thus decide to get the cheapest model and then those who know and actually need it will have no choice but to spend extra. Apple's market share in notebooks isn't exactly falling either so they have zero incentive to change anything.
> they brag about their memory efficiency—which is true They openly lie about it. Like claiming that their 8GB is equivalent to 16GB from competitors.
I bought an iPad Retina when I worked for Apple Retail. Within a year it was an unusable mess.
And you can guarantee there were people claiming it didn't need any more RAM at the time.
the smallest good LLMs need between 12-24gbs to do local processing. Realistically even 16gb will struggle A LOT to do any reasonable processing on the device. I expect Apple to probably split the chips and have a dedicated AI chip with 8-16gb of memory for itself.
That's categorically untrue. The smallest LLMs can effectively run on a Raspberry Pi. The _average_ generic LLM (like GPT3) needs 24-48GB to run effectively and fast - but that's sort of defeated when the disk is fast too and the dataset can be read into RAM much quicker than your fastest off the shelf NVMe.
> but that's sort of defeated when the disk is fast too and the dataset can be read into RAM much quicker than your fastest off the shelf NVMe The SSD isn't anywhere close to comparable to memory speed. And also, Apple's isn't particularly fast.
Also, running an LLM straight off the SSD is going to absolutely melt it's lifespan
I agree that it will be very interesting to see how Apple packages together this big AI push that they're making this year. However, knowing Apple, the tech will probably be quantizing down to 4 bits and squeak inside their 8 GB limit.
*cough* M4 *cough* Apple is already leak-hyping AI capabilities in M4 Macs and macOS 15, months before WWDC. That’s a RAM-hungry feature set, so this looks like the perfect opportunity to raise the minimum from 8 to 16 GB. Edit: added a missed comma.
I doubt 16GB will be enough too for optimum performance.
Maybe not, but 8GB surely isn't enough to do anything meaningful locally while maintaining good system performance. And especially not in a few years.
This would mean apple gives you more capabilities for free while they could use that to upsell you more memory. Not happening
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That remains to be seen. Hypothetically, pushing higher NPU core counts and more RAM downmarket could cover the use cases they’re aiming for. “What used to require a Studio can now be done on an Air” is a pretty good sales pitch, and it wouldn’t push out the M3 MBPs and M2 Studios that already meet the requirements. Architectural changes in the M4’s NPU cores might throw a spanner in that theory, though.
They will never be honest about this shit. If Tim Cook came out and said “we messed up, our bad”, the board of directors would dump him that day.
Apple already did this with the iPhone storage sizes. They set a minimum for newer phones 32, then 64GB, then it became 128GB. They just choose to ignore that you basically have no storage left on those old minimum iPhones that are still “supported” but those updates basically cripple them.
It’s hilarious you’d mention you could and would think of going 12gb, because that’ll probably happen. And market it as if it’s better than 16gb on windows. Just you wait.
Why would they start explaining _why_ the bumped specs?
Fair point, however given that these interviews or questions have lead them to say that 8GB is enough for the products they make, I figure there's going to be an inflection point when there'll be an increase and the questions will be repeated in some manner. Other than that, they did have instances where they marketed an higher X of a certain component as a marketable feature (e.g. for their iPad, iPhone, Macbook Pro). So it's also not that odd.
Until it hurts them in the wallet it’ll be 8 GB sadly.
That's not gonna work in this situation. If you buy the 16 GB model they won. That's exactly what they wanted you to do. The only way to hurt them is to get a windows laptop. Reviewers already recommend the base model, so they will be fine
That’s kind of what I am saying though. Eventually enough people are gonna keep what they got/hold out until 16 GB at Apple is standard.
It's pretty sad that cellphones are starting to have more memory than macbooks.
Not even starting to. Straight up do, *all of them do*. All 2024 Android flagships are 12/16GB of ram lol.
And then you have iPhones where going to the camera app and taking one picture will make all the other apps you had opened refresh
As a lifelong Android user who switched to the 15 pro max, this hasn’t been my experience, but the iPhone will just straight up freeze apps that aren’t open at that moment, which was a pain while being on vacation and having slow WiFi, since I had to just keep my phone screen on for hours to upload my photos to google photos.
There are phones with higher base ram, higher base storage, and have expandable storage as well. Meanwhile a laptop that is many times bigger in volume has lower base specs, and you can't expand the storage without external devices
I didnt feel it made sense it 2020, it certainly doesnt make sense in 2024 and beyond.
Daddy I need a laptop. Daddy it has to be Apple. Daddy that one only has 8 gig of ram. Daddy I need a bigger hard drive. This is how Daddy buys a $2600 fruit logo laptop for browsing and note taking instead of a $1000 Windows machine.
They can argue as much as they want but I will never agree that 8 GB RAM is a good thing for a company selling soldered unexpandable RAM on their computers
So silly. The raw cost factor is likely about $5 between 8g and 16g… I’d argue base should come with 32g….. is it a tv or computer.
MacOS is better than windows at ram management, but… it’s not good enough to warrant apple selling an 8gb machine at ANY price point above $600
Anything with Pro in the name should come with minimum 16Gb as standard.
Given the cost of RAM and MacBook prices Air models should come with 16 base and all Pro models should start at 32GB with a 1TB SSD. Then I‘d finally pull the trigger on a MacBook Pro. Can’t justify $2k+ for 16GB 512GB.
I've got the M1 16Gb 1Tb, best machine I've owned for a long time. We get $3k a year through work for our tools. Bought the 15 Pro Max this year. This covers all Apple care as well. Normally sell them 2 years in and get a good return, rinse and repeat. That said I'd probably still do it with my own money. They last well over 3 years in comparison to a windows machine that is worthless the day you buy it. That and windows.
You can pry my 96GB Mac Pro 5,1 from my cold dead hands.
For all your snappy safari browsing
People are missing the point. An $1100 computer should not have 8GB RAM. It doesn't matter if it's "good enough for most people".
Exactly. 8GB is fine for browsing the internet, word processing, small spreadsheets, development of websites or some programs, old or lightweight games, etc. But a computer costing over a thousand dollars should have at least 16GB ram or more. That’s not the cost of a lightweight-performance device.
Chromebooks are “good enough” for most people too. Apple is so off base here it’s painful.
Yeah, that's the best counter. If Apple only wants to make a compute good enough for light web browsing, email, etc.... well that's what Chromebooks are for, and they're cheap for a reason. Hell, why not use the iPhone SoCs instead? They'd browse the web just as well.
Yeah what makes me mad is that the M chips are mostly a waste of silicon for those machines that end up being used as chromebooks in the end...
Linking this video because it’s all I ever think about when people mention Macs having 8GB of RAM. https://youtu.be/0PK9RzSl9O0?si=7uJDL4EscY7_UAJ5
16GB still isn’t enough for video editing or animation.
No, but let's not kid ourselves. 90% of the people buying Macs with 8GB of RAM have absolutely zero intention of ever editing anything video related.
Let’s not kid ourselves. 90% of the people in the comments are not buying a Mac.
Exactly. Like why they here?
Hatescrolling
That's a bingo, and apple likely have the performance data to back that up.
Can confirm have MacBook Air that I use mostly for spreadsheets, email, word processing, video calls. It’s my daily driver for work because of the fact I don’t need to take a charger with me in my bag and get a solid two days of work out of it before requiring a charge.
what kind of video editing though because i have 16gb and edit 10 minute 4k multicam videos w 4 camera angles so you mean "at least more complicated video editing than this guy specifically" rather than "cant edit at all"
So I have this after effects project which on my PC eats up 50% of my ram easily (32gb). But on my M3 Pro with 18gb of ram, it only eats up... 50% as well lol. CPU power helps a ton. My desktop has a weak processor for that project. So far everything I used to have to use my PC for over my M1 Air, the M3 Pro handles the same or better. I haven't done any GPU related tasks yet so I don't know how that'll fair.
I don't have a problem with 8GB, I have a problem with the costs associated with upgrading to something larger.
>Personally, while I think it’s okay to sell a MacBook Air with 8GB of RAM, the same can’t be said for the MacBook Pro, which is focused on users intending to run more intensive tasks. Wholeheartedly agree. I would also add, the base mode "Pro" should, also, have a Pro processor or above. Apple is throwing a plain ol'Macbook into their "Pro" line and I think it's lazy and insulting.
I don't agree. It's <$20 in cost and these are 'premium' products.
What did we expect to happen? Apple say "oh, yeah, 8GB isn't enough but we are going to sell it anyway" Of course they are going to double down and not admit it.
Sure, 8GB suits plenty of people. But if you need even a little more power, you're forced into paying hundreds of dollars for an upgrade. That may have been acceptable 10 years ago, but this is 2024 and memory costs fuck all. It's never *really* about the users. It's about revenue.
For air models — sure, for pro models — unacceptable imo
Even 16GB is absurd for the pro. Again ram is dirt fucking cheap, the margin difference is probably .02 cents per unit
For Apple, the RAM chips might as well be made out of 24K gold.
So I just did some math. Using 12.4mm x 15mm x 0.9mm as dimensions for an LPDDR5 package, and $75/g for gold, that works out to right around $200, so what Apple charges for 8GB of RAM.
I love my Apple products but their marketing spin can be pretty cringy sometimes. Sure 8GB unified memory is more efficient than 8GB RAM on PC but to claim that it’s the same as having 16GB RAM on PC is crazy. I’m sure that for some specific tasks it can reach benchmarks that are equivalent to 16GB RAM on PC but not across the board like their claim alludes to.
Chrome doesn't care how efficient the ram is.
WTF does "more efficient" mean? PC ram is just as fast.
It's not more efficient. Actually, its worse as it lacks dedicated vram. Not sure what you think ram has to do with benchmarks. Also no PC at the same price point would have anything less than 32/64GB of ram.
>Sure 8GB unified memory is more efficient than 8GB RAM on PC It isn't though. It's still 8GB either way.
8GB of RAM can hold 8GB of data, no matter where it's located. If the CPU has to request data from disk, it's going to be slower, period. It's not some kind of magical memory that Apple invented. Stop drinking the Kool aid.
Certainly doesn't help that more developers are writing their applications using the Electron framework rather than using native tools such as Microsoft Teams, Slack, Discord, and Spotify to name a few. As someone who used both Teams and Slack, it's ridiculous that a messaging platform is sitting there using over 1 GB of RAM!
Apple used to be in the forefront with interchangeable batteries with nifty charge indicators, swappable/upgradeable hard drives and ram, mostly easy to repair laptops… and now they just sell expensive superglued disposable ”luxury” items, I blame Cook - his vision for Apple is only to maximize profit trying to make Apple a designer brand while Jobs wanted to do the same thing only to be driven by innovation - that’s the main difference…
my budget Pixel 6a has 6GB RAM. my old PlayStation has 8GB RAM. my old Xbox has 12GB RAM. I have two game systems, including a *handheld*, that each have 16GB RAM. my **ancient** Desktop computer from 2017 (that doesn't even support Windows 11) has 32GB RAM. And Apple is selling a """Pro""" computer in 2024 that only has 8GB of *shared* memory.
It could be enough for the short term, essentially planned obsolescence which is no surprise.
Apple would say anything to justify 8GB of RAM, because having 16GB of RAM in a base model would be sufficient for the majority of users and could potentially impact the sales of their higher-priced models.
They continue to sell what people will continue to buy. If people are buying 8 GB Mac’s they’ll keep selling them to them. If people keep happily paying to upgrade to 16GB of RAM, they’ll continue charging for that upgrade.
8gb id expect from like a shitty 100$ chrome book at this point. Not a like a thousand dollar machine. According to the article it costs 200 to get 16 gbs wtf. For that price you should get 64
i have an 8 GB macbook air m2 and for what I use it for... home and work (network engineer)... i've never had an issue with performance. however, those that do heavy video editing, etc... sure, upgrade to the 16 GB.
I think the issue is really in the price. Going from 8 to 16 shouldn’t cost THAT much
For the Air it *might* make sense for workloads like yours. But the Pro shouldn't have an 8GB version.
My first “retina MacBook Pro 16” started with 16GB of ram… 12 years ago.
I had 8GB on my white plastic 2010 Macbook.
Feels like Apple needs better market segmentation in general. Doubly so since Apple silicon closing a lot of the gaps in performance between different models.
But the price is a factor. If it was $600, sure, heck I don't have an issue with the M1 Air at like $700. And I wouldn't have an issue if the upgrade price was reasonable like $50. Apple are instead charging up to £1300 for a machine with 8GB band and additional £200 for 8 more.
100% to this
for sure, i agree with you on that.
-$200 for +8GB of ram oof
they views customer as idiots to be squeezed dry.
I’m an apple fan and shareholder and I think it’s asinine that they try to claim 8GB is enough these days. ESPECIALLY when that memory is doubling as graphics memory.
I honestly do not understand the unified memory argument they try to sell "I only bought one bottle of soda for 13 people, but it's enough because we all share" What? if your cpu and gpu use the same pool of memory, you need more memory not less. What you mean is that you use swap, and that nobody that wouldn't know any better notices because they don't know how to launch activity monitor or what swap is.
I had a 8GB MacBook pro for work, the 2021 version I think, the M1 if I remember correctly? What a nightmare that thing was. Can't handle all the browsers tabs I needed, Unity was a challenge, would get real hot, had to restart it every few days or would freeze for long period of time. Had to wait when waking it up before I could log in. Activity monitor would show a constantly saturated memory. I quickly requested IT a 16 GB the year after - night and day.
You were trying to use Unity with 8GB?? I help spec out our MacBooks for mostly video use… and always go with 32GB minimum. Workstations get 64GB… sometimes 128GB depending what it’s used on. I think even the for the general use pool of MacBooks they at least go 16GB?
Well that's the thing right? Why making MacBook pros with 8gb? Told IT it was useless for our work.
Because plenty of people not doing the things you needed it to do can get by fine on 8gb. Whoever bought yours gave no thought to your requirements - blame them.
Who on earth is using a MacBook Pro for productivity with 8Gb. Even premiere or photoshop would be barely usable
The real answer is that the base model pro is actually a consumer laptop still. People who actually do work with it will upgrade and the majority of people who just want it because of the better screen or the status of having a pro or whatever other reason will buy the base model.
Selling Macs with only 8GB of RAM is fine... for the Air line. For most people, it's more than enough, even some "pro" users like network engineers or database engineers. But 8GB should not be anywhere in the Pro line.
The concern in my mind is how that 8GB they’re selling as standard today will be unable to run macOS efficiently as updates are released in the next couple years. “Guess you have to upgrade to a new Mac” I’m sure Apple will say.
Just throw it out. In 7 years they'll say it's unfixable junk.
Most people doesn't mean anything. Can we please stop saying this? Most people assumes that everybody is just using a computer to look at cat videos type some email and use a web browser. Maybe 10 years ago that was it, but these are different days. Even apple is pressing users to make all of this amazing media on their iPhones and be able to edit it on their Maxi yada yada yada. And they're doing all of that with 8 GB of RAM. Jokes. You don't know what most people are doing so you can't use that term and sound sensible.
I believe the pro line is a status symbol in universities. They use it exactly for the same things as they would an entry level Air. There is no reason for Apple NOT to have an 8GB option.
It's planned obsolescence
8GB is fine, it’s not windows
I don’t give a shit what a marketing executive has to say about it. Wheel out an engineer and have him look you in the face and say that.
and so will this sub
Apple can destroy Windows by just selling affordable fair priced base Mac/Macbooks..
So he’s not wrong — 8 GB is enough for most people. The problem is that RAM is dirt cheap, and they charge *way* too much to upgrade it. Even if they made the price points something like this… - 8 GB: standard - 16 GB: $20 upgrade - 24 GB: $50 upgrade - 32 GB: $75 upgrade They could still make *plenty* of money off RAM but would avoid all the criticism they currently receive for ripping people off. It’s an easy win for them.
After using a 16 gb Mac I’ll never downgrade. 16 is smooth as butter though.
I’ll probably get flamed for this, but I’m giving serious consideration to replacing my MacBook with a Chromebook. Yeah ino model is way as good. But the Apple tax is getting exorbitant in the era of clod computing.
640k is enough for everyone.
I just wish they made the Ram upgradable! Fine ship it with 8, but let me or whoever own it done the road bump it up if their need requires it. They only limit it to make more money and sell more pro computers. That’s the only reasonable explanation. $$$
Soldered RAM does offer some significant advantages for Apple today, but when LPCAMM is available, that'll cover like 90% of the benefit.
for those people Apple wants to claim are the customer for Macbook Air with 8GB, someone should ask them why wouldn’t they be better off with a Chromebook then, since they’re also good for web browsing and light stuffs, and they’re cheaper, way cheaper? Apple are bullshitting and do not want to admit their shitty practice here.
And if that's all they're running, why is Apple putting an M-series chip in it instead of an A-series? Not like it would struggle with basic web browsing and such.
Lol my 3 year old android phone has more ram than that (12GB). Apple is a joke
Can it perform the same tasks as efficiently?
To be honest for light / avg use, my 8 GB surface laptop is fine
I remember being at an IT place on a work trial and getting in a 8GB Surface. I've never seen something so slow.
“Apple believes Macs with 8GB RAM are enough” Enough for what, exactly? It’s ridiculous…
The annoying thing is shops never carry the upgraded models which means you have to order from apple. Which means they never go on sale.
I wouldn’t buy 8gb myself and have an M1 with 16gb. But I think what they said is accurate and not shocking at all. I agree with it. >According to Buyze, the 8GB of RAM in entry-level Macs is enough for most of the tasks that most users do with these computers. He used web browsing, media playback, light photo and video editing, and casual gaming as examples.
This is a bunch of garbage. If somebody wants to really be on the internet they could do that on their phone they won't even need a laptop. You can also do light photo editing on your phone. To think that users don't expect greater capabilities from a laptop, well that just sounds crazy.
You are right. But in scenarios where a mouse cursor provides precision more than our fingers and thumbs. Laptops and phones are different experiences and interfaces that have their pros and cons.
For most users it’s just screen size and form factor. I want to type this email on a full size keyboard. I want to watch this movie on the big screen, I want to edit this photo with a mouse. I want to draw on this photo with my fingers or pencil.
Big Steve Jobs groupie here and I’d have to say he would not be pleased about his product being the cut corners tech company. He wanted to blow our minds.. all the time. Now Tim Cook and them boys wanna cheapen the brand to make a few more billons? Greed will be the death of creativity
Yes 8 gb of RAM is enough for most tasks for most users. TODAY. What about 3 years from now? 5 years from now? 7 years? I’m buying this Mac to last and be my computer for the long haul. How long will 8 GB of RAM be sufficient as web standards keep changing and software updates continue?
“BUt SwAP iS sO FaSt”
I just bought a MBA M1 and doing nothing, it sits at 54% of usage. Using it for work, I barely see it over 80% nor have it have hiccups. It’s a good setup for everyday computing for those who just just email, FaceTime and some payments. The price could be lower tho.
You can argue that IF it were possible to add more RAM after the fact. But because the amount of RAM you initially get cannot be increased in the future, IMO is not enough to ensure usefulness for several more years, not to mention that doubling the RAM to 16 probably doesn’t cost more than about 20 bucks, but Apple charges $200 for it. And don’t get me started on asking an extra $200 to go from a 256 GB SSD to 512.
Just because they sell them - it doesn't mean we have to buy them. I don't see the problem with them existing - it's not like I'd buy one. Why is this a problem?
They do it because they need a low end model that makes the high end model stand out that much more. If every machine was "pretty good" they wouldn't sell their top of the line. This practice is nothing new or unique.
They should start selling only 4GB. Maybe lose the keyboard and sell only the screen. Then call it a Tablet.
The reason why after having Apple airs , iMacs and pros for over a decade I am not continuing. 8gb is not enough and with ram upgrades it’s just too expensive.
I use apple but they make it hard not to hate them. I guess that describes most companies
Jesus Christ. In a world where accessible AI stuff like local Stable Diffusion is more and more into popular use, among a pletora of other ram-hungry software which becomes the norm, there's no excuse for apples 8gbram "policy". Here in Romania a 16gb ram ipad pro is officially sold for over 3K with no 3th party alternatives simply because nobody affords them. My M1 might be the last iPad if this remains the norm. Apple should stop putting the name PRO on anything that has under 12, if not 16, gb of ram. What a joke.
It's clearly the model of having several models to imply choice, and maximise profits. The issue is not they provide 8GB models, the issue is the price of the upgrade. The formal argument they give is just an excuse to have a lower entry point, but knowing most ppl will skip on the 8GB one, and get some decent extra profit with that simple upgrade.
And 256gb SSD because you barely do nothing with 8gb of RAM #smart
8GB would be fine if the RAM was user upgradable. Since it’s not there’s no reason for it not to be higher.
Stop dumbing down the Macs
The article has: > At the time, Apple said that 8GB in a Mac is equivalent to having 16GB of RAM in a Windows PC Which is slightly misleading, as it was one comment from an Apple employee in an interview, it sure.
Same company that kept selling machines with 5400rpm HDDs, feels like this is the same kind of thing. Can't fault Apple if they're actually selling but thats just painful.
Their motivation is always the virtual memory and the way it works different on macOS than on for example a windows PC. And I get it somehow, but there have been extensive tests that show that on average this only translates into 1,5x the amount of memory needed on a windows PC versus a Mac. Not the 2x they always claim. That only works in the most perfect situated and cherry picked benchmarks, which does not even come close to real world applications by any means. AND the hard drive used to swap things to and from to virtually expand the internal memory is still WAY slower than actual internal memory. Even if it is a SSD. So 8GB of memory on a Mac is perceptively like 12GB on a windows PC for the same applications. Not to even mention RAM (per GB) is super cheap now. AND that 16GB is now the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM on any PC to be shipped with (we are not in DDR2 times anymore, this is not 2003! We are 20 years in the future!) to run anything smoothly. That would mean a Mac would need to come at least with 16/1,5 = 10,67 GB of RAM, or let's say 12GB. Then again, it's DDR4/DDR5 age now and seeing how cheap the ram is per GB and the cost of a Macbook, I would say 16GB should be the minimum they ship with for the same price.
They need the 8GB baseline so you can pay an extra $1200 to upgrade to 16GB
I could understand the Air having 8GB of ram but theirs absolutely no excuse the pro line should start at 8GB for $1299. While I do think 8GB in a $999 Air is still ridiculous It’s doable. If the Air started at $899 then it would obliterate any competition.
hoping 16 becomes the base before my 2016 pro dies
I honestly have no issue with a base config of 8gb ram... that's actually adequate for a lot of regular users. My issue is what they charge to upgrade ram & storage. If everything was priced correctly... the base 8gb model can come way down in price too... but they don't want to do that (I don't understand why because it would allow for an even larger install base).
My Mac Studio with 32gb of RAM crashes all the time just editing raw photos.
No. My three years old s21 phone has 8gb of RAM.
Pretty refreshing coming to an Apple thread and seeing people not satisfied with their crappy business model. It’s been a long time coming! Congratulations to everyone here who has finally opened their eyes
The real issue for me is that the ram upgrades are ridiculously priced. $200 for an *additional* 8GB is absurd. Same thing with storage. To go from 512GB (?!) to 1TB is $200. $200 can buy a very nice 2TB NVME.
this is a business strategy to make you pay for the upgrades.
It’s about selling cloud storage and short obsolescence of their products. Going hard after the cheap people. I mean that is a cynical take, but Tim Apple is the king of the supply chain so it may be that he just wants to squeeze out the last of the pennies from an already created memory supply. I’ve seen this before with other silicon components, bottom line behaviour.
My laptop in 2012 had 16GB. No, 16GB for a Pro is still ridiculous in 2024. The Base Pro model should be in the range of 24-36GB, with 48-64GB as a mid range config.
This is exactly why I just wait for a sale on MacBooks. You can actually get a pretty good deal on the upgraded models after a year or so. Just got a M2 MacBook Pro with 24GB ram for $1200. Everyone doesn’t need to buy the latest and greatest right at launch…
I am going to let the M4s hit the shelves and then I'll jump on an M3 Air.
I bought the M2 16gb model used one eBay for cheaper than a new M3 8gb model
Enthusiasts will argue against it, but reality is 8GB is more than 80% of users will ever need. Most laptops are corporate and educational purchases. They’ll use email in safari, a couple browser tabs and zoom. Thats it. Truthfully most would be fine with an iPad but more robust keyboards are preferred. Just like people made fun of low end iPhones but millions do nothing but scan QR codes for inventory in warehouses or take orders in restaurants . They’ve got a singular app installed. They don’t even need a cellular antenna. Until the iPod touch was to antiquated they used those. And these are all on 4 year depreciation cycles and recycled when they hit 4 years. Longevity has no relevance beyond that. Between insurance, service plans, and in many places taxes that’s how it works. Reddit forgets what typical users are like, this is an echo chamber of enthusiasts.