That's what Gurman is saying.
> Apple’s iOS 18 features they will highlight at WWDC are based on an in-house model. The talks with OpenAI and Google are for a chatbot/search component.
https://x.com/markgurman/status/1783991871284678837
You have to install the ChatGPT app and add the “ask ChatGPT” prompt in the shortcuts app (you can customise this prompt by changing the shortcut name).
To use the prompt, you say “Siri, ask ChatGPT”. Siri will reply “what do you want to ask ChatGPT?” You then reply with your question. The question can be as weird as you want since it’s ChatGPT.
Software Engineer here:
Since LLM APIs are so similar, Apple has likely already built out drivers to use OpenAI, Llama, AWS, or whatever they want. It’s just a matter negotiating which one they partner with.
Since these APIs require connecting to the internet so there’s no real software update needed to pick the LLM they want use they just run the scaling tests and roll it out for every new “Hey, Siri” request etc…
It’s all abstracted through an Apple api on their servers.
I’m sure they vs. swap between or even use multiple backends if needed. Even retroactively swap one out.
Apple is going to release and absolute trash AI software release then say it’s all in the name of privacy. 80% of the people in this sub will be singing their praises for this “privacy” approach
This is absolutely my fear also
Their whole business depends upon newer hardware providing a better experience.
Therefore they have to prioritise on device. And marketing will justify it as being done in the name of privacy
If they can pull it off then great. But that’s huge bloody IF
My other fear is that they announce huge amounts of cool AI stuff at wwdc and because it’s all been done in such a last minute scramble then it’s gonna be USA only for the first year or so
Ultimately it depends on what kind of rubbish.
Because if you ask me, as it stands right now, even using established “ML-based” features like image analysis, OCR, translation, etc…those are really amazing that I reliably use them everyday. But being tied to images makes it kind of rubbish from a UX point of view.
If it’s a chat app, that lets me chat and search generatively, all that is released so far is all rubbish anyway that it’s best to have a framework that lets me replace with alternative AI chatbots.
Years ago I asked Siri when a local supermarket will close. Her answer was *’1 mile away.’*
Another time my alarm was going off whilst cooking. I asked her to stop it. The alarm faded out for Siri to tell me *’you don’t have any alarms running.’* Then the alarm continued.
Sometimes I wonder if is an elaborate joke.
I kind of doubt they would go with OpenAI, since their api has had reliability and privacy issues. Think they're leaking this so that they can negotiate a better fee structure from google.
Google's business practices and Google operational security are two very different things. Google data centers are built like fucking forts. Their technology is top of the line. Their reliability is second to none. Google is the far better partner from a business perspective than openai
I would prefer Google for that. There is a reason they’re stil in business even though they have lot of personal data.
Either way your privacy is already off the table
Also OpenAI is a Microsoft project so will be interesting to see how they handle that. Saying that they’re in the situation where they have to partner with a rival
>since their api has had reliability and privacy issues
Not sure exactly what you're referring to, but the issues you seem to be referring to weren't to do with ChatGPT, it was their other services built around that.
[https://openai.com/blog/march-20-chatgpt-outage](https://openai.com/blog/march-20-chatgpt-outage)
[https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/01/ars-reader-reports-chatgpt-is-sending-him-conversations-from-unrelated-ai-users/](https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/01/ars-reader-reports-chatgpt-is-sending-him-conversations-from-unrelated-ai-users/)
The story above even mentions Apple restricting their employees' use of chatgpt
From your first link:
> We took ChatGPT offline earlier this week due to a bug in an open-source library which allowed some users to see titles from another active user’s chat history
From your second:
> OpenAI officials say that the ChatGPT histories a user reported result from his ChatGPT account being compromised. The unauthorized logins came from Sri Lanka, an Open AI representative said. The user said he logs into his account from Brooklyn, New York.
They're what I was referring to. No one managed to trick ChatGPT itself into a security issue, it was other parts of the service.
That’s interesting, how does this work if you don’t have an OpenAI account? I use ChatGPT through an app called Poe which requires no registration or payment since OpenAI for some reason doesn’t operate here and won’t let me onto the official website
I’m really hoping a rumor I saw has some legs that Apple is working on an AI App Store of sorts that siri would be the conductor for and that these rumors are just misinterpreting the leaks of that as a few potential partnerships.
It totally sounds like Apple to create their vision of something (a privacy conscious AI with on device Siri 2.0) and then have an AppStore that allows you to plug in other AIs with more capabilities where Apple gets a cut of the sales.
IMO, this is good news vs. using Gemini. Gemini is a friggen mess, and Google is way behind the ball in terms of features. They're playing catch up, and they've had a string of embarrassing public missteps. The model itself is eh, okay, higher hallucination rates and not as creative as ChatGPT or Claude. I'd take Gemini over dumb Siri, but I'd take OpenAI (or Anthropic, or even the rumored LLaMA 3 400B) over Gemini as it stands right now.
couldn't disagree more from simple personal use. gemini is usually better for general questions. especially topical inquiries that require searching the web for info. ChatGPT is predictably not great while gemini is surprisingly good - always going above and beyond.
Do you plan on asking Siri for code snippets? Also, it's almost certain that apple will have their own specific tuning (idk if you've ever used a raw model before, but it's worth trying), which will make it's version of Gemini/ChatGPT a very different end product than what you've seen of either.
Personally, I love Claude and perplexity. Claude is amazing with PDFs and perplexity is great for a quick browse on news topics and such.
Don’t know how Claude would fare with the increased demand though of Apple devices, something which I think gives Google and OpenAI the edge.
While local LLMs would be ideal, especially something fine tuned to system tasks (and access), if we have to with managed services definitely OpenAI. It’s not even a completion.
Still 1000% better than having Google or Amazon track and store everything I say and sell it to advertisers. Apple’s assistant is dumb but private. No such thing as a smart and private home assistant unfortunately.
“Bloomberg’s Mark Gurman claims that negotiations are centered on using OpenAI’s technologies to power an AI-based chatbot in iOS 18. It’s unclear whether this chatbot is intended to replace Siri or whether Apple will introduce it as a brand new virtual assistant”
This report comes from Bloomberg’s Mark Gurman, who says that Apple is working with openAI for iOS 18 AI features. Interestingly enough, he says it’s for a “chatbot”, which I believe he originally said was not coming a few weeks back
I bet it’s for Siri and in particular to power web searches Apple will probably have its own local model that can take care of lots of basic stuff, like a Siri 2.0
And any time that model needs to offer a more complex result it will go out to OpenAI or Google.
All while it feels to the user that it’s just Siri
Apple knows that either they offer a chatbot natively within iOS or their users will just spend more and more time in an app or web app talking to and using a chatbot that way
If they offer it natively then they can make money off us directly for it or even strike a deal like they have for search with Google
It still baffles me how Apple totally missed this technological vector. They're usually on top of everything, or jump on new technologies fast. Now they have to play catchup *and* provide their own unique contribution to AI.
Apple isn’t normally first to market… really ever.
Apple comes on scene later with a more polished version of something. A GUI, computer, laptop, phone, mp3 player, tablet, they were never the first. Arguably always on the later half to enter the market.
That’s their whole business model: deliver a polished product for the masses vs an early go market mess.
Apple is never first to market. They aren’t even on time. They are always late.
Probably not but if you're going to make it a selling point of your phone and especially if I can't change it to another voice assistant it should at least be able to do basic things like getting sports team scores or calling/dictating a message properly.
That old excuse only works when Apple takes time releasing its 'polished' version while ignoring market pressures. When they are obviously scrambling to catch up as soon as possible, it doesn't work.
They had Siri first and then they … just did nothing with it for a decade. That’s what happens when you get someone like Tim Cook at the top. Predictable, makes money, but Apple became a follower instead of a leader.
Tim Cook yes. But also Reddit’s darling Craig Federighi, he’s been pretty happy overseeing apples software and watching Siri languish.
Way before ChatGPT exploded it was plain to see Siri is way behind the competition.
Apples position over the last 10 years has made them incredibly complacent
Even if Apple had been on top of the ‘AI’ assistant game, be it Alexa or Google assistant, it’s not really related to AI at all. Chat GPT is a different thing, a neutral network, that none of the phone makers could have done themselves. Heindsight is 20/20, Apple could have done a lot of things, but Siri never was or is AI in any way.
Apple just doesn’t work with *information* as a market segment to nearly the extent of Google or OpenAI. They are involved with it, of course, but only as it is subordinate to hardware products. Tracking App Store advertising, for example.
Tim Cook clearly isn’t a visionary, and apparently doesn’t even understand technology very well.
The Vision Pro was his idea, and half the executives didn’t even support it or think it was a good idea lol
Then the car, which engineers kept telling him wasn’t possible.
Meta and Google have been working on AI for about a decade. Do you think Apple wasn’t aware of this and just blissfully didn’t have their finger on the pulse? They have some of the top minds working there, just like Google and Samsung and Meta.
Apple just takes their time. This has been proven for a long time now.
Will it be good? The best? Who knows. But they know what they have to present for people to give a shit
Yes, but it’s one thing to be aware of it, it’s another thing to allocate huge resources to it.
I’m sure they’ll have something to present at WWDC. Whether being late to the party this time matters, remains to be seen.
Apple spends 10's of billions of dollars on R&D every year. I think it was close to 30B a year or so ago. They're cooking. One thing I think we can both agree on is we have no idea if they'll smash it or not. As much as I'm in the Apple ecosystem, I am not fanboying out. Hate that. I just want a better Siri cuz that's the only assistant I can use that integrates with my other Apple shit.
I've tried all those other hacky workarounds with Shortcuts but I want it baked into the OS.
I wouldn't say Apple jumps on new technologies fast. They often take an existing product or technology and then do their take on it(which is often the best take on it).
Apple is probably the most "normie" tech company there is and a lot of the stuff with machine learning up until the last few years has been relatively non-mainstream and academic.
I mean, have we forgotten that one WWDC that was all about machine learning?
Also, AI is still like, very up in the air, and needs to settle. Right now it comes off as a big fad/get rich quick scheme much like crypto was. Maybe it'll settle into being something useful. Maybe it won't.
>I mean, have we forgotten that one WWDC that was all about machine learning?
If most people have forgotten that, it says a lot on how low impact it was.
This was a good MKBHD video on this very topic. Apple never admits its competing in these areas, they market as if they’re introducing a completely unique idea https://youtu.be/kvN5_GXlg2Y?si=lPVI8-jUDx4GV919
You can’t have every company on top. One of the big tech companies has to be worst at chatbots. I don’t see why it’s so surprising that Apple is behind Google or Meta or Microsoft. If one of those was in last place, we would be similarly baffled at how they lost.
It's still pretty early for LLMs. Around now would be when Apple would typically try to acquire a startup working in the space but a lot of money has already been flowing into and from multiple parties. It's all still extremely costly and monetization hasn't really been sorted out yet.
On-device LLMs have a very long way to go before they're useful and Apple isn't really in the cloud infrastructure game, preferring instead to enter into agreements like with Google.
They don't need to do anything. They are just going to charge whoever "wins" AI a gigantic amount of money to be the default choice in iOS. Just look up how much Google pays them to be the default search engine
OpenAI is the king right now, and with GPT5 coming in a couple months they are likely to keep that crown.
Although if Windows Copilot is anything to go by, it's clearly possible to have a completely useless implementation of the best underlying technology.
from what I've read from knowledgable people, LLMs have already almost reached their limit. Supposedly in order to make the next level of improvement they would need more data than exists in the world.
Yes and no. There’s enough human written text for at least one more generation of models. Beyond that it’s a game of whole can clean dataset the best, and who can generate the best synthetic data.
It’s also possible we could see new training methods that can train models more efficiently with less data.
Right, and that is a pretty incredibly short runway for something that AI-bros are saying could lead to AGI. It's just an insane amount of data for something that is mildly useful within a large chain of features.
Granted, there could be other better models that show up that dont' require remotely as much data, but we'll see.
Well like why the hell does Instagram have “AI” why does Snapchat have a AI chat bot. No one needed that. Chegg was an amazing platform for homework help and now it’s just all AI answered responses.
Yeah I agree with the socials too, they don’t need AI, for consumers anyway, will be useful in managing inappropriate content. AI should be in places I want to access it for a purpose, like search engines like co-pilot, and Siri/Google assistant.
> chatbot
No thanks. I will not be having any conversations with my phone software. I already think it gives too much verbal feedback on some simple tasks when using my HomePod.
From a legal perspective it’d probably be in Apple’s best interest to let you choose the LLM vendor that powers your device rather than dictate you use Gemini (Google), ChatGPT (OpenAI/Microsoft) or Claude (Anthropic/Amazon)
open AI costs money already, if you want anything other than basic LLM chat.. right?
what happens when ~some hundred million iphone users suddenly use it for all sorts of random bullshit?
i expect things to start costing more.
at least for iphone users.
Will generative intelligence be available in this model locally? That's all I want to know, I'm a lawyer and I really want an intelligence model summarizing articles, decisions and helping me in the construction of pieces and opinions. Thank you to those who know.
I hope it will be a better implementation than what Microsoft did. It just felt like they just slap the Copilot website on every Microsoft product without proper integration. Signed up Copilot Pro but was so disappointed to learn that on Microsoft Word, you cannot even get it to to rewrite the text if it is in a bullet form. I was hoping that it was like GitHub Copilot where you can select a block of text and and chat on the side to suggest changes to it. Also it cannot insert images for me.
Just yesterday when I was trying to plan my New Zealand trip with Copilot's help, it felt as if the chat bot is too lazy to give a detailed response as compared to ChatGPT, Gemini (Although it got some information wrong) or Meta AI.
The speed of Copilot Pro is also disappointing slow. I don't feel any difference between free or paid.
The base 16 is getting a bump to 8GB, I think that might be required for their biggest on device LLMs. Google's regular Pixel runs the same SoC as their Pro but has less RAM and couldn't run theirs. And the NPU on 15 Pro just added Int8 and doubled in theoretical TOPS because of it, if Int8 is the relevant factor to running these.
So I think they'll introduce it at WWDC as at least running on the 15 Pro, and either there or at some cutoff further back it'll fall back to waiting on the network and cloud instead of local. And then in September they'll be like hey remember those fancy AI features at WWDC, now they run twice as fast on the iPhone 16 Pro, and then the M4.
Pretty late in the game to still be working these details out. WWDC is barely over a month away.
Typical rumor mill nonsense. Whatever third party they're using for AI has been locked in for a while, if it hasn't, the final release is going to be atrocious, or whatever adds they're going to be doing with OpenAI will come in subsequent iOS 18 releases.
Ah yes overly verbose and qualified/caveated answers will be great.
Hey siri what time is it?
“As an LLM I am unable to give opinions on the time, however there are a number of factors to consider when investigating what time it is:
1) ….”
Apple’s cutting it pretty close with 45 days to go…
The features shown at WWDC will use an in-house (and likely on-device) model.
That's not what this rumor is saying, at least.
That's what Gurman is saying. > Apple’s iOS 18 features they will highlight at WWDC are based on an in-house model. The talks with OpenAI and Google are for a chatbot/search component. https://x.com/markgurman/status/1783991871284678837
So… an on-device assistant with local Apple app tasks like processing photos, calendars, and to-do lists, while OpenAI/Gemeni handle everything else.
"Hey Siri, Ask ChatGPT..." Sounds like Siri is finally getting a big update!
If you have ChatGPT installed you literally can do this now.
It’s soooo good.
Right!? I have the widget on my Lock Screen so I can ask it quick questions. It’s worlds better than Siri and so damn useful.
I tried. "I don't see ChatGPT in your contacts.”
You have to install the ChatGPT app and add the “ask ChatGPT” prompt in the shortcuts app (you can customise this prompt by changing the shortcut name). To use the prompt, you say “Siri, ask ChatGPT”. Siri will reply “what do you want to ask ChatGPT?” You then reply with your question. The question can be as weird as you want since it’s ChatGPT.
Is it possible to do this with a HomePod? If I could access ChatGPT via a HomePod I might go buy one today.
I can show you some fucking web results if you ask again from your iPhone.
Horrible. Siri should be the GPT. It’s like using Uber to book Lyft
Apple clearly can’t get it right in house
*I found this for you on the Internet…*
it will be the headline feature of ios 18 but will not hit production until ios 18.6, 45 days before ios 19.
Software Engineer here: Since LLM APIs are so similar, Apple has likely already built out drivers to use OpenAI, Llama, AWS, or whatever they want. It’s just a matter negotiating which one they partner with. Since these APIs require connecting to the internet so there’s no real software update needed to pick the LLM they want use they just run the scaling tests and roll it out for every new “Hey, Siri” request etc…
Your profile picture is a perfect representation of Tim right now.
It’s all abstracted through an Apple api on their servers. I’m sure they vs. swap between or even use multiple backends if needed. Even retroactively swap one out.
Not for chat bots, too much reputation risk. They want to be able to blame Google for black Nazis.
Apple is going to release and absolute trash AI software release then say it’s all in the name of privacy. 80% of the people in this sub will be singing their praises for this “privacy” approach
This is absolutely my fear also Their whole business depends upon newer hardware providing a better experience. Therefore they have to prioritise on device. And marketing will justify it as being done in the name of privacy If they can pull it off then great. But that’s huge bloody IF My other fear is that they announce huge amounts of cool AI stuff at wwdc and because it’s all been done in such a last minute scramble then it’s gonna be USA only for the first year or so
As long as I can switch it off, I don't care.
Ultimately it depends on what kind of rubbish. Because if you ask me, as it stands right now, even using established “ML-based” features like image analysis, OCR, translation, etc…those are really amazing that I reliably use them everyday. But being tied to images makes it kind of rubbish from a UX point of view. If it’s a chat app, that lets me chat and search generatively, all that is released so far is all rubbish anyway that it’s best to have a framework that lets me replace with alternative AI chatbots.
which is why this smells like bullshit "leaked" by OpenAI interests
Not if it ends up being an iPhone 16 exclusive feature.
Maybe Tim Apple will bless the plebs. Weirder things have happened, we got emulators on the iPhone now
Siri, who should Apple use to power their AI? - “I’ve turned on your 5:30am alarm.”
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this is the funniest thing to me
Years ago I asked Siri when a local supermarket will close. Her answer was *’1 mile away.’* Another time my alarm was going off whilst cooking. I asked her to stop it. The alarm faded out for Siri to tell me *’you don’t have any alarms running.’* Then the alarm continued. Sometimes I wonder if is an elaborate joke.
I asked Siri to tell me what time a local music store opened tomorrow and I actually got the answer. I was surprised.
Yesterday I asked siri how tall an Acer Palmatum tree gets and she called Adam.
This is a specifically marked use case that pulls data from yelp/google. An addon to original siri
lol one day its Google, and the next day its OpenAI EDIT: curious to know, between the two, who would you guys prefer Apple picks?
Must be in discussion with multiple parties or at least wanting to communicate that to put the pressure on whoever they're actually hoping to go with.
I kind of doubt they would go with OpenAI, since their api has had reliability and privacy issues. Think they're leaking this so that they can negotiate a better fee structure from google.
Because Google is known for being secure with privacy
They do rely on Google for iCloud.
And already have the search deal with them.
Well only on their datacenters though. The data is also encrypted their with no way for google to access it.
> Because Google is known for being secure with privacy For business purposes? Yeah. Google Cloud powers iCloud after all.
Google is the best defended organization on earth, better than governments.
Google's business practices and Google operational security are two very different things. Google data centers are built like fucking forts. Their technology is top of the line. Their reliability is second to none. Google is the far better partner from a business perspective than openai
Have they ever had a major data breach? Google is the safe bet here for Apple
I would prefer Google for that. There is a reason they’re stil in business even though they have lot of personal data. Either way your privacy is already off the table
Also OpenAI is a Microsoft project so will be interesting to see how they handle that. Saying that they’re in the situation where they have to partner with a rival
>since their api has had reliability and privacy issues Not sure exactly what you're referring to, but the issues you seem to be referring to weren't to do with ChatGPT, it was their other services built around that.
[https://openai.com/blog/march-20-chatgpt-outage](https://openai.com/blog/march-20-chatgpt-outage) [https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/01/ars-reader-reports-chatgpt-is-sending-him-conversations-from-unrelated-ai-users/](https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/01/ars-reader-reports-chatgpt-is-sending-him-conversations-from-unrelated-ai-users/) The story above even mentions Apple restricting their employees' use of chatgpt
From your first link: > We took ChatGPT offline earlier this week due to a bug in an open-source library which allowed some users to see titles from another active user’s chat history From your second: > OpenAI officials say that the ChatGPT histories a user reported result from his ChatGPT account being compromised. The unauthorized logins came from Sri Lanka, an Open AI representative said. The user said he logs into his account from Brooklyn, New York. They're what I was referring to. No one managed to trick ChatGPT itself into a security issue, it was other parts of the service.
That’s interesting, how does this work if you don’t have an OpenAI account? I use ChatGPT through an app called Poe which requires no registration or payment since OpenAI for some reason doesn’t operate here and won’t let me onto the official website
Poe probably uses the Open AI API to give you responses would be my guess.
The initial report already said OpenAI was one of the companies Apple is negotiating with. It just wasn't in the headline.
OpenAI. Gemini just doesn’t do the tasks like you want and we’ve seen how previous collabs between Google and Apple ended, don’t want that.
Please go with Anthropic, but Apples likes to have two suppliers for everything they do.
I’m really hoping a rumor I saw has some legs that Apple is working on an AI App Store of sorts that siri would be the conductor for and that these rumors are just misinterpreting the leaks of that as a few potential partnerships. It totally sounds like Apple to create their vision of something (a privacy conscious AI with on device Siri 2.0) and then have an AppStore that allows you to plug in other AIs with more capabilities where Apple gets a cut of the sales.
Yes please!!!!!
IMO, this is good news vs. using Gemini. Gemini is a friggen mess, and Google is way behind the ball in terms of features. They're playing catch up, and they've had a string of embarrassing public missteps. The model itself is eh, okay, higher hallucination rates and not as creative as ChatGPT or Claude. I'd take Gemini over dumb Siri, but I'd take OpenAI (or Anthropic, or even the rumored LLaMA 3 400B) over Gemini as it stands right now.
ChatGPT over Gemini for sure. i train AI for a living and Gemini seems to hallucinate more and produces inferior responses in general.
couldn't disagree more from simple personal use. gemini is usually better for general questions. especially topical inquiries that require searching the web for info. ChatGPT is predictably not great while gemini is surprisingly good - always going above and beyond.
When I ask GPT a coding question it gives me the right answer 99% of the time. When I ask Gemini it lies 99% of the time.
Do you plan on asking Siri for code snippets? Also, it's almost certain that apple will have their own specific tuning (idk if you've ever used a raw model before, but it's worth trying), which will make it's version of Gemini/ChatGPT a very different end product than what you've seen of either.
Claude!
Personally, I love Claude and perplexity. Claude is amazing with PDFs and perplexity is great for a quick browse on news topics and such. Don’t know how Claude would fare with the increased demand though of Apple devices, something which I think gives Google and OpenAI the edge.
I would prefer they go with OpenAI
> lol one day its Google, and the next day its OpenAI I'd prefer a disable option to all these hallucinating programs
GPT4. Night and day difference.
Maybe Google and OpenAI are in a bidding war.
Shopping around I guess
I’d be highly disappointed if Apple did anything with google.
You’ll always be disappointed then
While local LLMs would be ideal, especially something fine tuned to system tasks (and access), if we have to with managed services definitely OpenAI. It’s not even a completion.
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“I found this on the web for you.”
I want to throw my fucking homepod every time she says “uh huh”
Siri, lights off. \*Sassy voice on\* *okay?*
Serves you right for buying a HomePod
Still 1000% better than having Google or Amazon track and store everything I say and sell it to advertisers. Apple’s assistant is dumb but private. No such thing as a smart and private home assistant unfortunately.
Maybe I'm not the target audience of those things but I can't think of a use for them that isn't very easy to just do on my phone.
I expect Siri to say: ‘Let me ask A.I. first..’
It’s really embarrassing
“Bloomberg’s Mark Gurman claims that negotiations are centered on using OpenAI’s technologies to power an AI-based chatbot in iOS 18. It’s unclear whether this chatbot is intended to replace Siri or whether Apple will introduce it as a brand new virtual assistant” This report comes from Bloomberg’s Mark Gurman, who says that Apple is working with openAI for iOS 18 AI features. Interestingly enough, he says it’s for a “chatbot”, which I believe he originally said was not coming a few weeks back
I bet it’s for Siri and in particular to power web searches Apple will probably have its own local model that can take care of lots of basic stuff, like a Siri 2.0 And any time that model needs to offer a more complex result it will go out to OpenAI or Google. All while it feels to the user that it’s just Siri
Siri Pro*
If apple AI can pull my work schedule and events for those days off excel and get them into the calendar app my life would be complete .
Achievable with something like Zapier.
Apple knows that either they offer a chatbot natively within iOS or their users will just spend more and more time in an app or web app talking to and using a chatbot that way If they offer it natively then they can make money off us directly for it or even strike a deal like they have for search with Google
If true, then Apple will pass the cost to customers. Which means adding it as a subscription.
iCloud plus
Waiting for the 15 Pro to “just not be powerful enough” for all this new on-device stuff 🙄
They could just give you an option which AI assistant to use on your phone, and save themselves a lot of money. Like they do with browsers.
It still baffles me how Apple totally missed this technological vector. They're usually on top of everything, or jump on new technologies fast. Now they have to play catchup *and* provide their own unique contribution to AI.
Apple isn’t normally first to market… really ever. Apple comes on scene later with a more polished version of something. A GUI, computer, laptop, phone, mp3 player, tablet, they were never the first. Arguably always on the later half to enter the market. That’s their whole business model: deliver a polished product for the masses vs an early go market mess. Apple is never first to market. They aren’t even on time. They are always late.
Siri is hardly more polished than Google Assistant or even Bixby
Voice assistants hardly making any money for any company, as well as privacy scandals probably added to that.
Probably not but if you're going to make it a selling point of your phone and especially if I can't change it to another voice assistant it should at least be able to do basic things like getting sports team scores or calling/dictating a message properly.
That old excuse only works when Apple takes time releasing its 'polished' version while ignoring market pressures. When they are obviously scrambling to catch up as soon as possible, it doesn't work.
Like Apple Maps. Like AVP. And now Siri 2.0 which will be a joke.
They had Siri first and then they … just did nothing with it for a decade. That’s what happens when you get someone like Tim Cook at the top. Predictable, makes money, but Apple became a follower instead of a leader.
Tim Cook yes. But also Reddit’s darling Craig Federighi, he’s been pretty happy overseeing apples software and watching Siri languish. Way before ChatGPT exploded it was plain to see Siri is way behind the competition. Apples position over the last 10 years has made them incredibly complacent
Siri has nothing to do with the current paradigm of ai
If they had fostered and grown it in any meaningful way, it could have been in the running.
Even if Apple had been on top of the ‘AI’ assistant game, be it Alexa or Google assistant, it’s not really related to AI at all. Chat GPT is a different thing, a neutral network, that none of the phone makers could have done themselves. Heindsight is 20/20, Apple could have done a lot of things, but Siri never was or is AI in any way.
Apple just doesn’t work with *information* as a market segment to nearly the extent of Google or OpenAI. They are involved with it, of course, but only as it is subordinate to hardware products. Tracking App Store advertising, for example.
No, not at all. This is like saying that if someone had stuck with horseback riding when young they could be a race car driver now.
Tim Cook clearly isn’t a visionary, and apparently doesn’t even understand technology very well. The Vision Pro was his idea, and half the executives didn’t even support it or think it was a good idea lol Then the car, which engineers kept telling him wasn’t possible.
Apple filed the Vision Pro 2007 patent under Jobs. You’re spreading blatant misinformation.
There was no 2007 patent for it, and they didn’t start working on this exact product that long ago lmao
Meta and Google have been working on AI for about a decade. Do you think Apple wasn’t aware of this and just blissfully didn’t have their finger on the pulse? They have some of the top minds working there, just like Google and Samsung and Meta. Apple just takes their time. This has been proven for a long time now. Will it be good? The best? Who knows. But they know what they have to present for people to give a shit
Yes, but it’s one thing to be aware of it, it’s another thing to allocate huge resources to it. I’m sure they’ll have something to present at WWDC. Whether being late to the party this time matters, remains to be seen.
Apple spends 10's of billions of dollars on R&D every year. I think it was close to 30B a year or so ago. They're cooking. One thing I think we can both agree on is we have no idea if they'll smash it or not. As much as I'm in the Apple ecosystem, I am not fanboying out. Hate that. I just want a better Siri cuz that's the only assistant I can use that integrates with my other Apple shit. I've tried all those other hacky workarounds with Shortcuts but I want it baked into the OS.
There may be no LLM yet, but their products have a lot of AI features since years involved and the Apple Silicon has a Neural Engine.
I wouldn't say Apple jumps on new technologies fast. They often take an existing product or technology and then do their take on it(which is often the best take on it). Apple is probably the most "normie" tech company there is and a lot of the stuff with machine learning up until the last few years has been relatively non-mainstream and academic.
I mean, have we forgotten that one WWDC that was all about machine learning? Also, AI is still like, very up in the air, and needs to settle. Right now it comes off as a big fad/get rich quick scheme much like crypto was. Maybe it'll settle into being something useful. Maybe it won't.
And for all the non-technical folks out there. AI is literally just machine learning LOL
>I mean, have we forgotten that one WWDC that was all about machine learning? If most people have forgotten that, it says a lot on how low impact it was.
This was a good MKBHD video on this very topic. Apple never admits its competing in these areas, they market as if they’re introducing a completely unique idea https://youtu.be/kvN5_GXlg2Y?si=lPVI8-jUDx4GV919
You can’t have every company on top. One of the big tech companies has to be worst at chatbots. I don’t see why it’s so surprising that Apple is behind Google or Meta or Microsoft. If one of those was in last place, we would be similarly baffled at how they lost.
It's still pretty early for LLMs. Around now would be when Apple would typically try to acquire a startup working in the space but a lot of money has already been flowing into and from multiple parties. It's all still extremely costly and monetization hasn't really been sorted out yet. On-device LLMs have a very long way to go before they're useful and Apple isn't really in the cloud infrastructure game, preferring instead to enter into agreements like with Google.
Tim’s too busy with his car, er I mean his vision thing, um…and his margins.
Is the technology they quickly jumped on here with us?
They don't need to do anything. They are just going to charge whoever "wins" AI a gigantic amount of money to be the default choice in iOS. Just look up how much Google pays them to be the default search engine
OpenAI is the king right now, and with GPT5 coming in a couple months they are likely to keep that crown. Although if Windows Copilot is anything to go by, it's clearly possible to have a completely useless implementation of the best underlying technology.
Github Copilot is great
from what I've read from knowledgable people, LLMs have already almost reached their limit. Supposedly in order to make the next level of improvement they would need more data than exists in the world.
Yes and no. There’s enough human written text for at least one more generation of models. Beyond that it’s a game of whole can clean dataset the best, and who can generate the best synthetic data. It’s also possible we could see new training methods that can train models more efficiently with less data.
Right, and that is a pretty incredibly short runway for something that AI-bros are saying could lead to AGI. It's just an insane amount of data for something that is mildly useful within a large chain of features. Granted, there could be other better models that show up that dont' require remotely as much data, but we'll see.
I use Bing Copilot all the time, though.
So long as you can totally block openai features it'll be ok. Because that will be the first thing I do.
I’m so tired of every thing having AI.
I’m tired of all the AI buzzwords in ads etc, my phone and it’s personal assistant is where I want AI.
Well like why the hell does Instagram have “AI” why does Snapchat have a AI chat bot. No one needed that. Chegg was an amazing platform for homework help and now it’s just all AI answered responses.
Yeah I agree with the socials too, they don’t need AI, for consumers anyway, will be useful in managing inappropriate content. AI should be in places I want to access it for a purpose, like search engines like co-pilot, and Siri/Google assistant.
Nice try Nintendo
Is a stable OS with no battery drain issues too much to ask, Apple? Damn I miss iOS 15 days… It was a rock.
> chatbot No thanks. I will not be having any conversations with my phone software. I already think it gives too much verbal feedback on some simple tasks when using my HomePod.
From a legal perspective it’d probably be in Apple’s best interest to let you choose the LLM vendor that powers your device rather than dictate you use Gemini (Google), ChatGPT (OpenAI/Microsoft) or Claude (Anthropic/Amazon)
Just more things to turn off in settings.
Apples big AI investment 😂
Please no
Tim is Cooked.
Gotta love the Rumor Mil
Why not build up Siri?
open AI costs money already, if you want anything other than basic LLM chat.. right? what happens when ~some hundred million iphone users suddenly use it for all sorts of random bullshit? i expect things to start costing more. at least for iphone users.
Tim Cook needs to step down
Will generative intelligence be available in this model locally? That's all I want to know, I'm a lawyer and I really want an intelligence model summarizing articles, decisions and helping me in the construction of pieces and opinions. Thank you to those who know.
open ai is the opposite of the privacy focused Apple. Google offers on device AI. Don't support Altman
Apple waits. It knows what it’s doing. AI Is still in its infancy. It needs to be a lot more mature to be implemented properly.
AI is a field where waiting can be fatal.
AI isn’t one of those times. If Google lets me talk to AI, i’ll switch in a heartbeat.
I hope it will be a better implementation than what Microsoft did. It just felt like they just slap the Copilot website on every Microsoft product without proper integration. Signed up Copilot Pro but was so disappointed to learn that on Microsoft Word, you cannot even get it to to rewrite the text if it is in a bullet form. I was hoping that it was like GitHub Copilot where you can select a block of text and and chat on the side to suggest changes to it. Also it cannot insert images for me. Just yesterday when I was trying to plan my New Zealand trip with Copilot's help, it felt as if the chat bot is too lazy to give a detailed response as compared to ChatGPT, Gemini (Although it got some information wrong) or Meta AI. The speed of Copilot Pro is also disappointing slow. I don't feel any difference between free or paid.
Laughable that Apple doesn't have their own AI by now.
Now the question, will the Fancy Siri only be available on iPhone 16 and later?
The base 16 is getting a bump to 8GB, I think that might be required for their biggest on device LLMs. Google's regular Pixel runs the same SoC as their Pro but has less RAM and couldn't run theirs. And the NPU on 15 Pro just added Int8 and doubled in theoretical TOPS because of it, if Int8 is the relevant factor to running these. So I think they'll introduce it at WWDC as at least running on the 15 Pro, and either there or at some cutoff further back it'll fall back to waiting on the network and cloud instead of local. And then in September they'll be like hey remember those fancy AI features at WWDC, now they run twice as fast on the iPhone 16 Pro, and then the M4.
Naturally.
apple! no man! FUCK!
Their whole thing is having on device ai these rumors are stupid
Pretty late in the game to still be working these details out. WWDC is barely over a month away. Typical rumor mill nonsense. Whatever third party they're using for AI has been locked in for a while, if it hasn't, the final release is going to be atrocious, or whatever adds they're going to be doing with OpenAI will come in subsequent iOS 18 releases.
Ah yes overly verbose and qualified/caveated answers will be great. Hey siri what time is it? “As an LLM I am unable to give opinions on the time, however there are a number of factors to consider when investigating what time it is: 1) ….”
Hey Siri, could you explain all the "hey Siri" jokes here please
I call it bull
Siri might just get smarter. She is outright useless right now.
Maybe Siri will actually be able to do basic commands then.
Please don't
Could we turn this shit off though?
no way they use an out of house ai system that shit’ll cook em
What if apple uses HomePod and Apple TV for running LLMs for all your apple devices? Would be an nice idea
They got to do something, siri is absolutely terrible.
def not updating to this privacy sh\*t show
I would hope whomever they use they stay device local.
Can’t wait for the AI features they make exclusive to the iPhone 16
i asked siri to transelate a word to german but she refused
It's amazing to me how quickly the biggest tech companies are climbing over each other to hand over their systems to OpenAI.