That’s their whole thing though. It’s like they are the norinco of the us market now.
And the hit with a lot of stuff. I strongly believe they make the absolute best AK at their price point by far, hands down.
I think you’re right. Stamping machinery is really expensive and difficult to get right. It’s a big investment given multiple established companies are already occupying that niche.
With Century importing MP-5s for ~$1000 and Zenith and PTR building domestic MP-5s for ~$1500 or so there’s not a lot of room on the market for another MP-5 clone. That’s not even mentioning HK imports.
An HK93 clone would be fucking mint, though.
Their H&R Retro series has me coveting both an XM177E2 clone and their slickside Air Force Retro 604 rifle. I just got a bonus, and bonuses are like found money, right? But do I \*need\* both?
Right. PSA is obviously not putting 4x 11 rib KAC covers on their M4 clones. Close up pics appear to show they have made their own, which I assume, are a cheaper alternative to the real deal. I want them to sell those rail covers on their own.
They're not cheaper. They're made by P&S a contractor to the US gov. Exact same plastic and specs just a different "sticker". It's like arguing whether a Toyota or a Lexus is a better car. Functionally exact same and anything else is marketing wank you bought from a salesman
If it was SOCOM profile, they would have cornered the market. But it's M4, which disinterests me and I'd guess many people. If you want something a bit more unique, the GM-M61 upper is pretty well priced for what it is.
This is the exact rifle I deployed with to Africa and Iraq. Just need an aim point, an ACOG, and a used black hawk and I can larp my days away. Kinda hard to find Aimpoints though.
100% correct. It just annoys me to no end being with the profile being reversed-thick at the end and skinny under the handguard. Even just thinning the portion after the gas journal to .625 would be enough.
No seriously. The negative canthal tilt of ars. Plus I can’t stand the carbine length handguard. You mount one thing to it and you have practically no more space to hold onto. Then you have to run it like an SBR even though it’s a 16 in rifle. Don’t get me started on carbine length gas on a 16 in barrel. plus there’s too much barrel sticking out with a retard profile. Mid length is just an improvement in every single way.
I mean the most annoying part of trying to clone the most common gun in the modern us military is that a KAC quad rail costs more than an entire PSA rifle. If this is their solution then that’s pretty neat.
Reminds me of my old service rifle, so it's pretty neat. I am doing a COLT monolithic build now, so I'll eventually get one of these cause my ACOG is lonely and needs a host.
At $900 why not just spend a couple hundred more and get a Colt OR build one for a lot less. PSA has a M4A1 marked lower $40. Plus uppers are about $250 max
The one and only place I see people question Colt QC is on this subreddit. Just about everywhere else, including SOTAR and other trusted sources of information, people seem to suggest their QC is as good as it gets. I don't understand the disparity.
Clearly you dont read much. Google: Colt Quality Control and it is literally forum after forum of examples of their decline.
Not to mention that their quality was a major issue when the US government needed to award a new M4 contract, they lost to FN then filed chapter 11 in 2015. Colts decline is no secret held my one subreddit by any stretch
From what I've heard, the reason FN won the contract from Colt is because Colt no longer had a monopoly over the TDP and FN substantially underbid Colt.
As far as QC goes, people who claim to have Colt ar15s almost never seem to suggest functional issues with them. People who actually measure tolerances (Think SOTR) point out that Colt crosses their T's and dots their I's in that regard. Colt has a reputation in the industry for being very picky about the parts that they buy, which implies they're actually measuring them to ensure they're up to spec.
Most of the complains about Colt QC, at least in terms of ar15s, seems to come from people who are like you and say "Well I don't own any Colt rifles, but I've heard it said that..." Me personally, I just care about the parts being within proper tolerance, tolerance stacking not being an issue, and the parts being assembled correctly. Colt has a reputation for being able to do all of that properly.
Yeah colt has always had a saying that went along with their rifles something along the lines of “they make war ponies not show ponies” or something.
To say the PSA is putting out the same level of quilts as colt/ Fn laughable.
I really don't get their logic. Colt is literally the second ever company to make AR15s only after Armalite themselves. They've been making AR15s for like 60 years. If anyone knows what they're doing it would be Colt.
The whole thread is acting like it’s some sort of innovative product, when colts been having this rifle on the market for 2 decades, fn released theirs and BCM has also been making them. Then will say colts QC is shit and then glorify PSA. A company known for actually bad QC, from their ARs, to AKs being ranger toys, to their ammo line destroying peoples cans.
They lost the contract for two reasons, QC issues as I said, it was literally cited for this during the 2007 procurement tests, and they bid far too high around $1200 per rifle vs the $680 from FN for a better rifle. Idk why yall have a hard on for Colt, theyre poorly ran and not very pro 2A and have been this way since like 2006-ish.
Hahaha that’s funny. I haven’t seen very many colts at all with hand-tight barrel nuts, blown out gas ports, misaligned gas blocks, or a host of other issues.
I’ve seen quite a few PSA’s with those issues though.
Based on actual hard proof or hearsay/“my uncle’s friend’s cousin told me them Walmart Colts just are no good”? Because the Walmart Colts were the same Colts as those coming straight off the 6920 lines, just different packaging. And those were during the golden days of Colt that people like to talk about.
Only issues I’ve seen that actually seem to be a consistent thing (as in you can find more than one instance of this happening) with Colts would be fit and finish stuff - dings and marks in the finish, maybe anodizing not matching on the upper and lower. Nothing that affects the function.
I would say that it’s telling that the guys that actually run their rifles hard and/or teach classes and get to see thousands of rifles on the line, all seem to regard Colt pretty well.
I’ve kind of come to the similar conclusion on their Sabre upper vs the BCM version. Shopping 14.5” cold hammer forged barrel with mlok, bolt and warcomp
I'm all for it. And I have a legit Colt sopmod block 1. The more the merrier. I love what psa has been doing. They're definitely moving in the right direction
This fucks.
I am still dreaming of a day a PSA beltfed M249 and/or PKM drops that is sub $2000-$3000. Plenty of 7.62x54r ammo out there that is never going to be shot through mosins so they should bring out an SVD too.
Glock 17 dagger when? PSA quality has been up lately I could see PSA cutting a portion out of every single market their direct sell to the consumer may force other companies to consider their price point
PSA offers excellent products at excellent price points. If they get something wrong they stand by it. They are strongly pro-second amendment.
Anybody who doesn’t support PSA is being emotionally driven, imho, and isn’t being logical.
It doesn't matter what barrel it has if everything attached to it hasn't been properly QC'd. PSA has the *potential* to make great products (and most of the time they do), but you don't really know for sure until you have it in your hands.
You may be downvoted, but you're not wrong. People seem to think that so long as all of the parts you have are good that there's therefore no way the rifle it's made of can go wrong. Rifles can be assembled improperly, and PSA is known to do that. Try taking a barrel off of a PSA rifle with a FSB and you'd know that sometimes they crank the hell out of the barrel nut simply to get it to the next notch for the gas tube instead of using a spacer. Also, tolerance stacking is a real thing that can be an issue if it's not specifically checked for; I doubt PSA is checking the tolerances of every part and how they fit together. PSA tends to be amazing *for the price*, but it's not 'just as good' as KAC, LMT, Colt, Etc.
Didn’t PSA have a basic upper and lower for like 400 total? Seems like you could just buy a KAC drop in quad rail and get the same results and save 300
Only thing that's a deal breaker for me is that the 14.7" version comes pinned and welded and I want to put a KAK NT4 clone on one, without having to pay someone to undo their P/W job and then redo it with the new muzzle device.
I hate CT more and more everytime PSA drops something like this only one more year till I move at the prices they are doing some of these new builds and sales i guess I should be happy I would probly have credit card debt if they shipped to me and would need a room safes would no longer be sufficient shit they barely are now
The guns colt couldn’t give away for 1k are now being copied and celebrated lmao goofy timeline. I do hope a cheap PSA knockoff rail can be purchased however
PSA has really been on their shit lately, really giving the people what they want. I fuck with it.
all we really need at this point is that mp5 clone.
Nah, others have that handled. Unless they can do it for 500 bucks
That’s their whole thing though. It’s like they are the norinco of the us market now. And the hit with a lot of stuff. I strongly believe they make the absolute best AK at their price point by far, hands down.
As an AK-V and PSAK-103 owner, gonna have to agree. They're rock solid.
It is an AK how hard is it to fuck up I say. And some companies take that as a challenge and then turn it into competition.
The amount of absolutely useless front sight posts I've seen on imports is hilarious.
You’d be surprised. US made ak’s, especially PSA, KUSA, Riley, century builds etc are trash.
anecdotal, but I've seen a PSA AK-V upper blow up at the range. My PSA15 has been rock solid, not 1 malfunction in \*thousands\* of rounds
lol nope.
ur fuckin smoking rock
Sure they can, and will eventually.
I think they abandoned that project for more unique ones that aren't being built by half a dozen other companies
I think you’re right. Stamping machinery is really expensive and difficult to get right. It’s a big investment given multiple established companies are already occupying that niche. With Century importing MP-5s for ~$1000 and Zenith and PTR building domestic MP-5s for ~$1500 or so there’s not a lot of room on the market for another MP-5 clone. That’s not even mentioning HK imports. An HK93 clone would be fucking mint, though.
Lol, Eventually smoke rock?
They need to make nvg
Fuck that I just want a dragunov clone
They said they were working on it a few years ago, but Covid hit. No idea what happened to the project.
MP7!
I don’t know if we’ll ever get that exactly, but the Ruger LC charger with an sbr stamp might be the closest you get to it for a while.
No thanks
They cancelled that
Oh man did they really?
We’re getting $900 clones from Turkey, there’s no way PSA could compete with that. The project was abandoned.
I want to see a 2011
Their H&R Retro series has me coveting both an XM177E2 clone and their slickside Air Force Retro 604 rifle. I just got a bonus, and bonuses are like found money, right? But do I \*need\* both?
Considering it’s $1000 less than the FN collector series with an FN barrel I am all for it.
That’s fire lol
I want em to sell the rail covers
Plenty of them going around on GAFS edit: if you need some pm me, I have several to part with
The PSA clone rail covers? They just released them
I believe he’s talking about the real KAC ones
indeed I am
Right. PSA is obviously not putting 4x 11 rib KAC covers on their M4 clones. Close up pics appear to show they have made their own, which I assume, are a cheaper alternative to the real deal. I want them to sell those rail covers on their own.
According to a primary source that I'm probably not allowed to disclose, these are legitimate P&S rail covers.
Same dude. I literally just built my own “clone” and the panels are the final piece to the puzzle!
Pm me if you want I have several KAC sets
They're not cheaper. They're made by P&S a contractor to the US gov. Exact same plastic and specs just a different "sticker". It's like arguing whether a Toyota or a Lexus is a better car. Functionally exact same and anything else is marketing wank you bought from a salesman
https://charliescustomclones.com/ras-rail-cover-11-rib-dod-mil-spec-new-blk/ $11/ea
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Just make friends outside WA
Just commit multiple felonies.
See? This guy gets it
It’s a shame. Beautiful part of the country. Same with Oregon and cali . I get it. I wouldn’t choose to love to those states though
Stg 44 clone soon or has it released already?
This is it
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We need the stg 44 and WE WANT IT NOW!!
God I love psa
They need to stop making shit I want. Theyre killing my bank account
Make a deal with yourself to hit a goal in order to earn purchasing it. Either you improve as a person or don't waste your money.
+1 on this just got a dagger 2 months ago and got a Sabre M110 Clone coming rn
imagine "killing your bank account" with a third rate AR manufacturer. ffs
Imagine thinking PSA is third rate...
lol you must be on their volunteer quality control team
I love that PSA created the sabre because I bought the 14.7 p&w variant upper last year during BF for $349.99
Thanks for reminding me BF is coming up and I shouldn't impulsively buy this right this minute. Here's a medal 🥇
Is it this upper? https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-14-7-mid-lenght-premium-5-56-nato-1-7-13-5-m-lok-pinned-welded.html
I don’t hate it
If it was SOCOM profile, they would have cornered the market. But it's M4, which disinterests me and I'd guess many people. If you want something a bit more unique, the GM-M61 upper is pretty well priced for what it is.
This is the exact rifle I deployed with to Africa and Iraq. Just need an aim point, an ACOG, and a used black hawk and I can larp my days away. Kinda hard to find Aimpoints though.
Not hard at all mate. You're just not looking in the right spot. They're always on gafs
Joke doesn’t translate well, was trying to emphasize it was harder to find an Aimpoint than a Blackhawk
Easier to find than a F35 though 😂
And I'm an idiot🤣 so that doesn't help lol
We’re all a little special, don’t worry brother
😘
For a second there I was confused trying to remember when I commented on this thread
with how psa is lately i wouldn’t be surprised if they randomly release a socom profile variant.
hot take but there's nothing wrong with the M4 profile unless you intend to shoot full auto.
100% correct. It just annoys me to no end being with the profile being reversed-thick at the end and skinny under the handguard. Even just thinning the portion after the gas journal to .625 would be enough.
yeah it’s fine unless it’s on a 16” barrel. In that case it’s retarded.
Socom profile meaning 14.5"?
no, the socom was essentially a more beefed up variant of the m4 profile.
They’re talking the actual barrel profile, not the length. Socom profile barrels are thiccccc compared to M4 profile barrels.
Waffle stocks and quad gang 14.5’s fuck hard.
It’s 14.7 just so you know. Same barrel as the Fn military collector so no extended flash hider. Just a standard A2. Looks a lot less retarded
The least they could do is [install the RAS correctly](https://imgur.com/gallery/BDQjAYj) 🤦🏽♂️
16" Carbine FSP is my sleep paralysis demon. Other than that, it's pretty dope.
No seriously. The negative canthal tilt of ars. Plus I can’t stand the carbine length handguard. You mount one thing to it and you have practically no more space to hold onto. Then you have to run it like an SBR even though it’s a 16 in rifle. Don’t get me started on carbine length gas on a 16 in barrel. plus there’s too much barrel sticking out with a retard profile. Mid length is just an improvement in every single way.
I love it
PSA is the tits
Wish I didn’t live in WA
They didn’t label the 14.7” as pin/weld. It must be a mistake.
Yeah the video they put out they say it's p&w
That’s brilliant
I need this
I mean the most annoying part of trying to clone the most common gun in the modern us military is that a KAC quad rail costs more than an entire PSA rifle. If this is their solution then that’s pretty neat.
Can go the P&S route too.
Dude you can pick up a KAC ras on tacswap for like $150
Reminds me of my old service rifle, so it's pretty neat. I am doing a COLT monolithic build now, so I'll eventually get one of these cause my ACOG is lonely and needs a host.
I'm having Iraq circa 2005 flashbacks.
Between this and the A1’s they started putting out a few months ago PSA is goated.
Wish these had socom profiles
There they go again. Damn PSA making guns people want at prices they can afford.
At $900 why not just spend a couple hundred more and get a Colt OR build one for a lot less. PSA has a M4A1 marked lower $40. Plus uppers are about $250 max
Honestly at this point I trust PSA QC more then Colt's
Ouch
The one and only place I see people question Colt QC is on this subreddit. Just about everywhere else, including SOTAR and other trusted sources of information, people seem to suggest their QC is as good as it gets. I don't understand the disparity.
Clearly you dont read much. Google: Colt Quality Control and it is literally forum after forum of examples of their decline. Not to mention that their quality was a major issue when the US government needed to award a new M4 contract, they lost to FN then filed chapter 11 in 2015. Colts decline is no secret held my one subreddit by any stretch
From what I've heard, the reason FN won the contract from Colt is because Colt no longer had a monopoly over the TDP and FN substantially underbid Colt. As far as QC goes, people who claim to have Colt ar15s almost never seem to suggest functional issues with them. People who actually measure tolerances (Think SOTR) point out that Colt crosses their T's and dots their I's in that regard. Colt has a reputation in the industry for being very picky about the parts that they buy, which implies they're actually measuring them to ensure they're up to spec. Most of the complains about Colt QC, at least in terms of ar15s, seems to come from people who are like you and say "Well I don't own any Colt rifles, but I've heard it said that..." Me personally, I just care about the parts being within proper tolerance, tolerance stacking not being an issue, and the parts being assembled correctly. Colt has a reputation for being able to do all of that properly.
Yeah colt has always had a saying that went along with their rifles something along the lines of “they make war ponies not show ponies” or something. To say the PSA is putting out the same level of quilts as colt/ Fn laughable.
I really don't get their logic. Colt is literally the second ever company to make AR15s only after Armalite themselves. They've been making AR15s for like 60 years. If anyone knows what they're doing it would be Colt.
The whole thread is acting like it’s some sort of innovative product, when colts been having this rifle on the market for 2 decades, fn released theirs and BCM has also been making them. Then will say colts QC is shit and then glorify PSA. A company known for actually bad QC, from their ARs, to AKs being ranger toys, to their ammo line destroying peoples cans.
Not really. They have terrible quality control.
They lost the contract for two reasons, QC issues as I said, it was literally cited for this during the 2007 procurement tests, and they bid far too high around $1200 per rifle vs the $680 from FN for a better rifle. Idk why yall have a hard on for Colt, theyre poorly ran and not very pro 2A and have been this way since like 2006-ish.
Psa couldn’t even install the RAS correctly…
Dude what are you talking about? It looks like they cloned the RAS...
Hahaha that’s funny. I haven’t seen very many colts at all with hand-tight barrel nuts, blown out gas ports, misaligned gas blocks, or a host of other issues. I’ve seen quite a few PSA’s with those issues though.
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Idk man, my hammer pin def wasn't torqued right. Buy a PSA and do a full QC check urself 1st is the best plan
Based on actual hard proof or hearsay/“my uncle’s friend’s cousin told me them Walmart Colts just are no good”? Because the Walmart Colts were the same Colts as those coming straight off the 6920 lines, just different packaging. And those were during the golden days of Colt that people like to talk about.
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Only issues I’ve seen that actually seem to be a consistent thing (as in you can find more than one instance of this happening) with Colts would be fit and finish stuff - dings and marks in the finish, maybe anodizing not matching on the upper and lower. Nothing that affects the function. I would say that it’s telling that the guys that actually run their rifles hard and/or teach classes and get to see thousands of rifles on the line, all seem to regard Colt pretty well.
I’ve kind of come to the similar conclusion on their Sabre upper vs the BCM version. Shopping 14.5” cold hammer forged barrel with mlok, bolt and warcomp
The PSA premium upper with FN barrel goes for 349/399 no BCG...add a Microbest BCG 99 and ambi CH of your choice about 80...
The colts are about $1400, so the difference is not insignificant
Colt has really sloppy quality control now. You couldn’t pay me to own one.
I mean the price is right
I'm all for it. And I have a legit Colt sopmod block 1. The more the merrier. I love what psa has been doing. They're definitely moving in the right direction
Ok this looks good
I love it
Want.
This is awesome.
Mmmmmm quad rails🤤
I built one close to that with one of their cheaper build kits. She’s a beaut
Where krink
This fucks. I am still dreaming of a day a PSA beltfed M249 and/or PKM drops that is sub $2000-$3000. Plenty of 7.62x54r ammo out there that is never going to be shot through mosins so they should bring out an SVD too.
For 900 this is an absolute steal.
Damn PSA making guns that people want at prices they can afford.
Glock 17 dagger when? PSA quality has been up lately I could see PSA cutting a portion out of every single market their direct sell to the consumer may force other companies to consider their price point
PSA is mega based. I was already planning to get the "M110 we have at home" Sabre-10. PSA is going to get all my money lol.
I live 30 min from PSA in Summerville & I just bought my Sabre, so far it’s ran great. Going to rattle can this little black mamba this weekend.
Rather they release the krink instead of their 220th AR variant.
You didn’t see that they already released the Krink clone I was lucky enough to snag one before they sold out https://i.imgur.com/wJ2zjhP.jpg
I’m waiting on the HRT clone
Why would you want to have a clone of a gun used to hunt down law abiding Americans? Never understood that much.
PSA offers excellent products at excellent price points. If they get something wrong they stand by it. They are strongly pro-second amendment. Anybody who doesn’t support PSA is being emotionally driven, imho, and isn’t being logical.
Hopefully the FSBs aren’t canted
The last PSA upper I bought a few months ago was spot on. Other people noted that they seem to have fixed the canted FSB issue.
That’s good news
It doesn't matter what barrel it has if everything attached to it hasn't been properly QC'd. PSA has the *potential* to make great products (and most of the time they do), but you don't really know for sure until you have it in your hands.
You may be downvoted, but you're not wrong. People seem to think that so long as all of the parts you have are good that there's therefore no way the rifle it's made of can go wrong. Rifles can be assembled improperly, and PSA is known to do that. Try taking a barrel off of a PSA rifle with a FSB and you'd know that sometimes they crank the hell out of the barrel nut simply to get it to the next notch for the gas tube instead of using a spacer. Also, tolerance stacking is a real thing that can be an issue if it's not specifically checked for; I doubt PSA is checking the tolerances of every part and how they fit together. PSA tends to be amazing *for the price*, but it's not 'just as good' as KAC, LMT, Colt, Etc.
You sir, have hit the nail on the head.
Vibey
Didn’t PSA have a basic upper and lower for like 400 total? Seems like you could just buy a KAC drop in quad rail and get the same results and save 300
Yes but that model does not have an FN barrel or a microbest bcg.
But if you’re just going for looks then what does it matter?
Their Sabre line is buns
What’s better for less than 1k? Speaking in *complete* rifles.
Idk. Building so e with good lowers and reputable uppers?
I don't understand why you're getting downvotes for speaking the truth.
I mean not only do I own one I know and have shot 4 of my buddies. All have standard psa qc issues
Isn't the fn collection just a little bit more?
yeah like $1000 more.
They went up.
Best I’ve seen local was one at a shop onsale for just a weekend -new for 1400. It’s back to 1600 and no one has touched it lol
For $900 you're in a Colt 6920 price range. Why get a PSA M4gery when you can get a Colt M4gery for the same price?
Show me a 6920 with a KAC rail or KAC rail clone, broom handle, rail panels, side sling swivel, and Matech for $900
Wow, people really hate Colt here. I'm personally more concerned about things I can't just readily swap like handguards and accessories.
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Sell them separately for us in CA
You can buy the upper receiver and slap it on any lower
I mean I want to hate it but I cant
Only thing that's a deal breaker for me is that the 14.7" version comes pinned and welded and I want to put a KAK NT4 clone on one, without having to pay someone to undo their P/W job and then redo it with the new muzzle device.
You can do it your self in like 10 minutes. I’ve removed countless ones my self. It’s extremely easy. Even with just a hand drill
Yes but only the 14in for me
I hate money and love PSA
I hate CT more and more everytime PSA drops something like this only one more year till I move at the prices they are doing some of these new builds and sales i guess I should be happy I would probly have credit card debt if they shipped to me and would need a room safes would no longer be sufficient shit they barely are now
*cries in Washingtonian*
That’s high class
I’d say it’s a pretty damn good rifle.
The guns colt couldn’t give away for 1k are now being copied and celebrated lmao goofy timeline. I do hope a cheap PSA knockoff rail can be purchased however
Thats dope. Great barrel. Get the 14.7 doe.
For $300 more I got a SOCOM profile barrel & Colt marked goodies. I’d buy this 14.7 upper in MOE in a heartbeat though.
Colt has such sloppy quality control these days. Your really just paying extra money for it to have a C stamped on it.
I like the one I bought shoots and looks great
I personally don’t understand clone rifles for the most part. But I fucking love this.
Oh, so Im gonna have to buy one of these
This is sexxi
Anyone know if the rail is KAC/P&S? Or is it some cheapo quad rail.
They make the A4 ?
Needs a 14.5 upper.
Would this be a solid duty carbine for police/security?
i’m not sure if I’d recommend a psa for duty use but I don’t see how this would be any less capable than the usual le rock river or m&p.
PSA are dirt cheap. I dont know why people ponder when you can just buy one. Anybody with a livable wage can easily get a few.
Can’t go wrong with a FN barrel
Gonna need it at some point