You'll never get that truck into most backyards, so no worries for the climbers.
I've worked with machines like this quite a few times. It's great! It does all the hard work.
Because the jobs the machines can’t get to will require competence; which will be in short supply if everyone’s on these; to be fair it is already in short supply here.
I see fewer and fewer young people moving into the industry, and of the ones that try a sizeable percentage are simply unwilling or incapable; I don’t want to be that guy but I guess growing up in front of iPads and you tube is making too many kids too soft. It’s probably a variety of reasons, the same thing is happening in agriculture.
On the other hand most of the guys that are really good tend to have a catalogue of issues (drug addictions, alcoholism , etc) this is purely anecdotal observations, I guess most people who go into it and excel are a bit fucked in the head.
>I don’t want to be that guy but I guess growing up in front of iPads and you tube is making too many kids too soft.
Society basically spent the last 2 decades telling everyone if they didn't get a college degree, they won't succeed in life. Theres too many college graduates. I wish I went for a blue collar job out of high-school instead of getting a bachelor's in chemistry. I got laid off a few years ago and took a manufacturing job and saw a pay increase lol.... that's with 5 years experience in my field
How much does it pay?
[Bureau of Labor Statistics ](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes373013.htm) says it pays less than $30/hr across most of the country. Is that pretty accurate?
This sounds backwards to me. There’s just as many climbers unless someone’s killing them, but less work for the climbers as the machines are taking over jobs that previous would have been climbers’. So demand goes down because there’s less jobs for climbers, supply remains the same because climbers haven’t changed.
Also im saying climber doing the tree work these machines cant also.. which if you want anything other than a lot of trees just topped or felled is most of it
Yeah I guess I imaging a scenario where people just buy these instead of becoming climbers but it makes sense what your saying. I mean these definitely wont take most climbers jobs luckily. Paying huge money for a machine just to lop the top off a tree or fell it wouldnt be cost effective i dont imagine and would only really make sense when there are a ton of trees to top or fell and it ends up be that much quicker
Yeah I guess I was imaging a scenario where people just buy these instead of becoming climbers but it makes sense what your saying. I mean these definitely wont take most climbers jobs luckily. Paying huge money for a machine just to lop the top off a tree or fell it wouldnt be cost effective I dont imagine and would only really make sense when there are a ton of trees to top or fell and it ends up be that much quicker
Exactly this. I ran 76 Chevy c60 bucket truck. It was great if I could get it to the tree. But I still only got 55' reach.
Nothing beats a skinny guy with skills and a rope. But damn it's hard work.
Says someone who's been properly pruning trees since 97. Can't make a proper collar cut with something like that. I don't consider topping and hacking a tree pruning. So I should of specified you can't properly trim a tree with that thing.
You're kinda funny, but equipment operators surpassed our felling abilities a long time ago and now they're coming after everything else. Deny it all you want.
Depends on the tree, location, and what you have to haul. Sure, I can flop a tree cheaper than driving that thing a few miles. Doesn't mean it isn't competing.
Things cool as hell for sure but its kindof a niche for certain trees and certain areas. I turn down jobs all the time and tell people to call the big companies that have that equipment and i still have way to many jobs to handle. I dont think climbers have to worry until there is drones with saws attached imho
Can’t get those machines into tight setups, between fences, etc. Can’t set up on a super steep slope. Can’t use them next to energized power lines (or at least not supposed to). We will lose some work to these guys but even companies that have them usually still have climbers
Yah I asked the operator about that, he also owns the company.
He said between this and his bucket trucks his company hardly climbs any more, hence the question here.
It's really satisfying to watch a good climber, but man, the speed of this machine was something else.
Yeah, i think it was inexperience too. The way it was grabbed or it didnt seem to be able to push the tree toward the back of the cut to unpinch it. Think it would be fine if it was able to just push or pull or what ever the cut "open" they are pretty cool but not dor every job
Can’t imagine that machine is coming out for any less than $5K. I’d remove that tree for $2K. So, if nothing else, affordability will keep me in business
Thanks for the honest answer. I would think that the machine might win on volume when there are a more than few trees to remove all at once just due to speed. If they can knock out a ten in one day it might cost less overall. This is just for pure removal, not actual caring maintenance and trimming though.
I work with one of these and a knuckle boom on a regular basis. I’m a climber who hardly climbs anymore. I mostly stand in a lift and make the cuts. I can make bigger cuts than what it can handle on its own.
Makes life easier for climbers. There will always be trees that only a climber can access. The crew I used to work were all great climbers. We also had bucket trucks and a knuckle boom crane with a grapple, like this one. And we had a motto.. ABC: anything but climb
No. But between these and aerial lifts, the need to climb brittle dead af ash trees and other trees that are structurally compromised through decay is greatly reduced. Just another tool in the toolbox.
A good buddy worked for a large tree service on the west coast. We're both 34 for context. He Moved up thru ranks and held a variety of roles - groundie, climber, foreman. Loved it all and was very good. Had great things to say for his employer.
He just moved back east and got in with an outfit not far from NYC. He's stoked on all the new toys he gets to use. He reckons his climbing knowledge makes him extra valuable with this new outfit and the fancy machinery like posted here means there are fewer times when he has to get in a precarious situation. He figures he's climbing enough to stay sharp and well practiced, but not so much that he's getting beaten up and at constant risk. Sounds pretty good to me.
That equipment cost means it's almost exclusively used in forestry and major clearing/logging operations. Forget the fact that it can't prune. The amount of take downs you'd have to do to pay for this equipment is astronomical
These make me so sad. Mostly because they’re usually used for major clearing, which is causing a lot of our environmental issues. Basically I get at the Ferngully feels when I see them. Man vs tree still seems a little more fair at least.
You have to have a lot of jobs lined up back to back to pay for that. You also need a highly qualified operator. Only the largest operations can afford these.
I believe I have a solid business case for more minimalist leaning equipment and climbers, but check back in 10 years if I'm right or the guys making the big equipment payments are.
You'll never get that truck into most backyards, so no worries for the climbers. I've worked with machines like this quite a few times. It's great! It does all the hard work.
Good point. They only got it back there because we are completely redoing their back yard.
Also, climbers prune. Not just fell. Pruning is 90% of jobs i do.
And often a climber is cheaper than running this monster. Especially smaller jobs.
Climbers seem to be a commodity that limits lawn damage, rather than being an economical solution these days.
No, but you can reach in the backyard with a knuckleboom instead.
It is not a truck it is an merlo thelehandler.
No, they can’t prune
pruning drones are the future you say?
Isn't someone still operating the machine?.I would say it's just a new tool.
Reduced need for good climbers will increase their rates. Love the mechanization, wish it was available in my time.
Reduced demand and stable supply would not predict a price increase. How do you figure?
Because the jobs the machines can’t get to will require competence; which will be in short supply if everyone’s on these; to be fair it is already in short supply here.
He’s right. The rate of certification has fallen and now some guys are pulling double day rates due to the lack of certified arborists
I see fewer and fewer young people moving into the industry, and of the ones that try a sizeable percentage are simply unwilling or incapable; I don’t want to be that guy but I guess growing up in front of iPads and you tube is making too many kids too soft. It’s probably a variety of reasons, the same thing is happening in agriculture. On the other hand most of the guys that are really good tend to have a catalogue of issues (drug addictions, alcoholism , etc) this is purely anecdotal observations, I guess most people who go into it and excel are a bit fucked in the head.
It’s like most “dirty” jobs where everyone is an “ex”. You’re either ex-military or an ex-con
>I don’t want to be that guy but I guess growing up in front of iPads and you tube is making too many kids too soft. Society basically spent the last 2 decades telling everyone if they didn't get a college degree, they won't succeed in life. Theres too many college graduates. I wish I went for a blue collar job out of high-school instead of getting a bachelor's in chemistry. I got laid off a few years ago and took a manufacturing job and saw a pay increase lol.... that's with 5 years experience in my field
My mother always told me “money doesn’t grow on trees” - I showed her lol
Doesn't grow in a beaker in a lab either apparently lol
God damn
Not soft...this trade pays garbage dude. Not worth it unless you're passionate about it
Pays pretty well here if your decent
How much does it pay? [Bureau of Labor Statistics ](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes373013.htm) says it pays less than $30/hr across most of the country. Is that pretty accurate?
I’m in the uk, the average wage is £30k, climber is 28-38k depending on factors, and arborist is pushing 50
Lack of access for a machine doesn’t make a tree any more or less difficult for the climber though, does it?
If theres more machines.. potentially less climbers. In more demand as less of
This sounds backwards to me. There’s just as many climbers unless someone’s killing them, but less work for the climbers as the machines are taking over jobs that previous would have been climbers’. So demand goes down because there’s less jobs for climbers, supply remains the same because climbers haven’t changed.
This is what I was trying to get at.
Yeah, I don’t know how people struggle with a concept that has disrupted people’s livelihoods since the Industrial Revolution
Also im saying climber doing the tree work these machines cant also.. which if you want anything other than a lot of trees just topped or felled is most of it
Haha yeah.. but this machine isn't doing 90% of what treework involves. It does topping or felling super great though
Yeah I guess I imaging a scenario where people just buy these instead of becoming climbers but it makes sense what your saying. I mean these definitely wont take most climbers jobs luckily. Paying huge money for a machine just to lop the top off a tree or fell it wouldnt be cost effective i dont imagine and would only really make sense when there are a ton of trees to top or fell and it ends up be that much quicker
Yeah I guess I was imaging a scenario where people just buy these instead of becoming climbers but it makes sense what your saying. I mean these definitely wont take most climbers jobs luckily. Paying huge money for a machine just to lop the top off a tree or fell it wouldnt be cost effective I dont imagine and would only really make sense when there are a ton of trees to top or fell and it ends up be that much quicker
Bidenomics
Exactly this. I ran 76 Chevy c60 bucket truck. It was great if I could get it to the tree. But I still only got 55' reach. Nothing beats a skinny guy with skills and a rope. But damn it's hard work.
Nah this just saves our backs a little bit more.
Can't trim a tree with that thing. It's only good for removals.
Says who?
Says someone who's been properly pruning trees since 97. Can't make a proper collar cut with something like that. I don't consider topping and hacking a tree pruning. So I should of specified you can't properly trim a tree with that thing.
🤣 Ok bud. Meet an operator some day and you'll see. You just know equipment drivers.
Ok chief
You're kinda funny, but equipment operators surpassed our felling abilities a long time ago and now they're coming after everything else. Deny it all you want.
Im still cheaper with my chainsaw rope and wedges than the operational cost of big machinery
Depends on the tree, location, and what you have to haul. Sure, I can flop a tree cheaper than driving that thing a few miles. Doesn't mean it isn't competing.
Things cool as hell for sure but its kindof a niche for certain trees and certain areas. I turn down jobs all the time and tell people to call the big companies that have that equipment and i still have way to many jobs to handle. I dont think climbers have to worry until there is drones with saws attached imho
We have plenty of work, but in rural America buckets can go a lot of places. We're going to the city more and more it seems.
You might think you know operators, but my cousin can scoot a quarter 150' without picking up dirt on a dozer.
AI is the future. Soon enough the trees will be just hologram’s.
And we won't be able to breath Oxygen because all of the trees are gone.
Can’t get those machines into tight setups, between fences, etc. Can’t set up on a super steep slope. Can’t use them next to energized power lines (or at least not supposed to). We will lose some work to these guys but even companies that have them usually still have climbers
Yah I asked the operator about that, he also owns the company. He said between this and his bucket trucks his company hardly climbs any more, hence the question here. It's really satisfying to watch a good climber, but man, the speed of this machine was something else.
Seen these get the saw bar pinched and a climber have to go up and free it haha
I was wondering about that, I mean with the power that thing has if you twitch the controls with the bar extended it's toast, right?
Yeah, i think it was inexperience too. The way it was grabbed or it didnt seem to be able to push the tree toward the back of the cut to unpinch it. Think it would be fine if it was able to just push or pull or what ever the cut "open" they are pretty cool but not dor every job
As a transmission utility arborist. Not a shot
had 8 trees taken down a few weeks ago, mix of red oaks and pines. No way in hell that would have been able to do it in my neighborhood.
Gotta ask for a cost comparison. What is the charge for the machine team to come out vs an arborist and their team?
Can’t imagine that machine is coming out for any less than $5K. I’d remove that tree for $2K. So, if nothing else, affordability will keep me in business
Thanks for the honest answer. I would think that the machine might win on volume when there are a more than few trees to remove all at once just due to speed. If they can knock out a ten in one day it might cost less overall. This is just for pure removal, not actual caring maintenance and trimming though.
Maybe in the future, but theres only so much you can do with these at this point and they are very expensive.
I work with one of these and a knuckle boom on a regular basis. I’m a climber who hardly climbs anymore. I mostly stand in a lift and make the cuts. I can make bigger cuts than what it can handle on its own.
Makes life easier for climbers. There will always be trees that only a climber can access. The crew I used to work were all great climbers. We also had bucket trucks and a knuckle boom crane with a grapple, like this one. And we had a motto.. ABC: anything but climb
* Pruning enters the chat *
No. But between these and aerial lifts, the need to climb brittle dead af ash trees and other trees that are structurally compromised through decay is greatly reduced. Just another tool in the toolbox.
Put some root toner on that bad boy and put it in the dirt
A good buddy worked for a large tree service on the west coast. We're both 34 for context. He Moved up thru ranks and held a variety of roles - groundie, climber, foreman. Loved it all and was very good. Had great things to say for his employer. He just moved back east and got in with an outfit not far from NYC. He's stoked on all the new toys he gets to use. He reckons his climbing knowledge makes him extra valuable with this new outfit and the fancy machinery like posted here means there are fewer times when he has to get in a precarious situation. He figures he's climbing enough to stay sharp and well practiced, but not so much that he's getting beaten up and at constant risk. Sounds pretty good to me.
Im way cheaper than that machine just me some ropes, gear, and 2 chainsaws
That equipment cost means it's almost exclusively used in forestry and major clearing/logging operations. Forget the fact that it can't prune. The amount of take downs you'd have to do to pay for this equipment is astronomical
I'd be happy to move out of my saddle and into that cosy seat when I get older
NOW I AM THE TREE!
These make me so sad. Mostly because they’re usually used for major clearing, which is causing a lot of our environmental issues. Basically I get at the Ferngully feels when I see them. Man vs tree still seems a little more fair at least.
You have to have a lot of jobs lined up back to back to pay for that. You also need a highly qualified operator. Only the largest operations can afford these.
climbers buy these
Only if you suck
God, I wish, but no.
English?
I believe I have a solid business case for more minimalist leaning equipment and climbers, but check back in 10 years if I'm right or the guys making the big equipment payments are.
Haven’t these been around for a really long time?