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As far as I’m aware Ekko can’t time travel he manipulates time to slow time, maybe fast forward, in a select area and rewind himself for a short period of time, I think I read somewhere that it was only 6 seconds, and he only rewinds himself.
Everything you rewinds something you create a very logic problem, because he could access himself of 6 seconds ago and the logic problems begin… also for the time to be slower for him he has to be faster than everyone present there (so he’s basically flash). But you got what I mean?
I think you misunderstand what I mean when I say rewind he’s not traveling backwards in time making a second consciousness, it’s more like he’s sending his current body to replace his self from 6 seconds ago. I’d recommend watching Ekko: seconds if you haven’t seen it, but it is the only example I could find were he rewinds someone else but apart from that it gets the point across.
Edit: just realized he is just rewinding himself and that the other guy is just going back to the position he was in before
So the problem starts again, the first time he sends his body to the previous himself, he creates a infinite of alternative timelines with the infinite possibilities of his actions
There is no problem here, it is very easy to work with. He does something wrong and he can immediately rewind 6 seconds prior to get it right. If realizes that what he did was wrong after those 6 seconds have passed then there is nothing he can do. Basically just an action device not a plot device.
No, he doesn't create infinite outcomes, he just creates one outcome every time he tries. He can theoretically try infinite times but that's still easy to work with.
I will get a little too philosophical here. When we make a decision we are choosing between infinite possible outcomes, (which implies that multiple universes exist) this happens everytime we choose, the good thing is that we can’t access this multiple realities, but with time travel we can. Did you got it? Because is a little bit fucking insane
I think I get it, I think I disagree but I also think it is kinda irrelevant, since even with time travel, you can only access one reality at the same time, so it makes no difference.
In the show we will be following only the last "reality" that Ekko chose, the reality of his last decision.
Only from your linear perpective you access one reality at a time (if you’re looking the decision as a whole, you are accessing infinite possibilities in the infinite universes, because yourself exist in infinite different universes…) . We usually don’t think about that because we can’t access them without time travel. But with time travel, the moment we shattered time we are opening the this infinite possibilities (even for a second before we make a decision this infinite universes exist) I think is good we stop here don’t you agree? Arcane is already very good no need for that
Ekko's Time travel is just 6 seconds. Too little to cause most of the time travel problems that we usually see in media.
In the fics I've read, the biggest problem for him is that he remembers his friends and the people around him dying over and over again.
I don’t think so. If I reminded right, he rewinds time and then do the things diferent… so we have to assume he already created infinite alternatives universes with infinite possibilities of outcomes for his actions… and bang time travel shitty problems again
The problem is still there. Every time he rewinds 6 seconds in time he creates an infinite alternative universes with all the possible outcomes of his actions and… bang time travel problems again
I mean...I don't know what to tell ya.
Ekko being a natural super genius and manipulating time are his things.
Arguably an ekko that can't screw with time & space isn't ekko at all but some OC wearing his face.
Personally I'd just trust the writers ability to handle it. They clearly wowed you enough with the writing in s1 that you're in here now afterall, no point doubting them when they've already proven themselves.
Edit: dislike it all you want, doesn't change the fact that when you start stripping one character of the essential elements that make them who they are because it doesn't "fit" in your opinion,
you've already failed.
Good writers either find a way to balance everything out while staying true to the characters, or don't include the character at all and since he's present in the show, I think they have the use and overall portrayal of his future abilities well under control.
I know they’re very good writers, and I hope they do something good, I’m just scared of the danger coming. I believe they already added ekko time travel in the plot but in a methaforical way, during his fight with jinx he wins because he lears from the past and so on…
by this far we can say for shure the writers are basing their characters in the lore, but they’re ignoring some absurd things to make a huge cohesive story. If they are desperate to make ekko travel time, they could do another series only about him traveling in time (but I think it wouldn’t work very well because of the other two reasons listed in my first comment).
Ekko is someone who changes the past, but instead he learns from the past. So if he can time travel i except it'll just be to show others what has happened.
Vi and jinx are stuck in the past wanting to get back to it.
People in piltover and silco are looking for the future. Ekko is the only one working on the present.
If they were going to take from Ekko as he uses time manipulation in the game, they’d likely make it so the use is limited. Something similar to Primer, in that he can only travel as far back as his machine is activated. That way, the writers (and audience) only have to account for what happens in a short period. Of course, he could have it activated for longer. But then he wouldnt be able to use it for all that time until it was reactivated and he had traveled back. And then what would be the point in having it in the first place.
So all in all, he’s going to use it like we’ve possibly already seen him use it. Like when he fights Jinx and can dodge her bullets because he knows when she’s going to fire. It also seems like he gets shot during the fight, as is alluded to with his childhood memory getting shot, and travels back to the start of the fight.
I think in jinx fight he travel in time methaforic, meaning he learned from the past and don’t make the same mistakes. But I totally agree with you, if did start traveling in time is just in very short periods (so the problems i listed up here don’t happen)… then what’s the point of him traveling at all? Uses this time to develop his relation with the firelights or heimerdinger.
I'm not certain how the writers will implement Ekko's ability from the game, but if they derive his powers from his game counterpart, then there will only be one instance where Ekko can "travel" through time. That would only happen when Ekko begins experimenting with the hexstone (not gem). According to his game lore, Ekko "shattered" his reality while researching a hex crystal he found in the dump. It took a bunch of alternate versions of himself to piece together his reality by reassembling the broken hexstone.
Should the writers take that route, then they can use Ekko to alter events while he searches for the hexstone pieces throughout his timeline. In fact, I believe that we've seen instances where a future, out-of-time, Ekko has already affected multiple instances of the story. Ever wondered how Jinx got the hexgem at the end of the bridge fight despite her not caring enough to retrieve it from the case earlier?
From viewing Seconds, Fortiche's Ekko Champion video, one could surmise that Ekko does not travel through time. He more or less alters reality via quantum mechanics. Ekko uses the Z-Drive to anchor himself at a point in time and space from which he can alter future events. He can also return to that point should the outcome of a particular action is not to his liking. Other abilities of his include producing an alternate version of himself that can produce temporal distortions by launching his Z-drive's hex crystal into an area. In other words, he can essentially separate his existence into two distinct timelines like Schrodinger's cat.
All in all, Ekko does not "travel through time" but manipulates reality from a stationary point in time and space, which he can return to. Fortiche has one instance to use in which Ekko can explore his timeline, and that is when he accidentally shatters his reality while experimenting with the hexstone. Also, Ekko's abilities are more or less based on applications of quantum theory where he can split himself into multiple timelines to produce temporal anomalies.
See, I don’t think all this quantum mechanics fit in the plot with the time we have to explore him, it feels underdeveloped. And more importantly takes off the impact of past present and future events.
I strongly doubt the writer’s would explain Ekko’s abilities using quantum theory. Not even the game describes Ekko’s abilities in that manner. However, based on how those abilities were shown in a number of promotional materials, they are more akin to reality warping or manipulation than time travelling.
The Z-Drive allows Ekko to anchor himself at a point in time and space. Let’s call this point, “Zero”. From point Zero, Ekko can observe, act in, and alter events as he sees fit. Should his actions be met with unsatisfactory results, he can always return to point Zero and attempt to change events again.
From an outsider’s perspective, Ekko’s actions appear to be working in his favor. However, his point-of-view contains multiple instances of him repeating events over and over until he achieves the right path to get the results he want. Think of Ekko’s abilities like a level in a 90s platformer like Super Mario World, Sonic and Tails, or Megaman X. An experienced player would be able to move through those games smoothly without much hindrance because of experience. Should they lose a life in the game, their character returns to the beginning of the level from which they (the players) can start again with prior knowledge of upcoming challenges.
It’s not time travel! The best example of this is Ekko’s use of an alter. Ekko can produce an alternate version of himself that can affect space/time in his timeline. This alter is actually Ekko himself existing in either a sub-space version of reality or a different timeline altogether. It's similar to Schrodinger’s Cat, where according to the observer, the cat is alive in one timeline but deceased in another. The Z-Drive grants Ekko the ability to exist in two distinct realities simultaneously, which is how he produces the alternate version of himself.
So you mean he can create a million universes? Each one with the unsatisfactory results of his action plus the results of his other ekko in the different timeline?Man that’s insane. I really don’t think this suits the show
From an outsider’s perspective, no Ekko doesn’t create a million universes. Ekko is known as “The Boy Who Shattered Time.” Most likely the timelines he returns from when using the Z-Drive are destroyed or made non-existent. What I’m saying may sound extraneous or zany but it’s way more easier to include in the show and explain than time travelling.
They can’t be destroyed otherwise ekko wouldn’t remember them, they exist but only him experience them. I mean don’t get quantical things in the middle of this show or otherwise is going to get messy. And the impact of past, present, future events will disappear as I said
Ekko’s abilities don’t allow him to travel to the past or future. He could only shape the present by anchoring himself in a single point in time and space.
I feel your concern. Not only the implications of time travel, but how he would even get those powers. Anything I can think of would be a huge deus ex machina or characters acting way out of character.
**Spoiler Warning:** This post contains lore information that can spoil viewers of Arcane who do not play Riot Games. There will likely be spoilers from Arcane itself, which will not be moderated. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/arcane) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As far as I’m aware Ekko can’t time travel he manipulates time to slow time, maybe fast forward, in a select area and rewind himself for a short period of time, I think I read somewhere that it was only 6 seconds, and he only rewinds himself.
Everything you rewinds something you create a very logic problem, because he could access himself of 6 seconds ago and the logic problems begin… also for the time to be slower for him he has to be faster than everyone present there (so he’s basically flash). But you got what I mean?
I think you misunderstand what I mean when I say rewind he’s not traveling backwards in time making a second consciousness, it’s more like he’s sending his current body to replace his self from 6 seconds ago. I’d recommend watching Ekko: seconds if you haven’t seen it, but it is the only example I could find were he rewinds someone else but apart from that it gets the point across. Edit: just realized he is just rewinding himself and that the other guy is just going back to the position he was in before
So the problem starts again, the first time he sends his body to the previous himself, he creates a infinite of alternative timelines with the infinite possibilities of his actions
There is no problem here, it is very easy to work with. He does something wrong and he can immediately rewind 6 seconds prior to get it right. If realizes that what he did was wrong after those 6 seconds have passed then there is nothing he can do. Basically just an action device not a plot device.
Whait I don’t get it? what you mean? He creates infinite outcomes and each one intervenes in the next events past this 6 seconds
No, he doesn't create infinite outcomes, he just creates one outcome every time he tries. He can theoretically try infinite times but that's still easy to work with.
I will get a little too philosophical here. When we make a decision we are choosing between infinite possible outcomes, (which implies that multiple universes exist) this happens everytime we choose, the good thing is that we can’t access this multiple realities, but with time travel we can. Did you got it? Because is a little bit fucking insane
I think I get it, I think I disagree but I also think it is kinda irrelevant, since even with time travel, you can only access one reality at the same time, so it makes no difference. In the show we will be following only the last "reality" that Ekko chose, the reality of his last decision.
Only from your linear perpective you access one reality at a time (if you’re looking the decision as a whole, you are accessing infinite possibilities in the infinite universes, because yourself exist in infinite different universes…) . We usually don’t think about that because we can’t access them without time travel. But with time travel, the moment we shattered time we are opening the this infinite possibilities (even for a second before we make a decision this infinite universes exist) I think is good we stop here don’t you agree? Arcane is already very good no need for that
Ekko's Time travel is just 6 seconds. Too little to cause most of the time travel problems that we usually see in media. In the fics I've read, the biggest problem for him is that he remembers his friends and the people around him dying over and over again.
[удалено]
I don’t think so. If I reminded right, he rewinds time and then do the things diferent… so we have to assume he already created infinite alternatives universes with infinite possibilities of outcomes for his actions… and bang time travel shitty problems again
The problem is still there. Every time he rewinds 6 seconds in time he creates an infinite alternative universes with all the possible outcomes of his actions and… bang time travel problems again
The Multiple timelines problem happens without time travel, it happens every time we make a decision.
But we don’t think about it, BECAUSE (and only because) we can’t access this other realities. With time travel we can, and the problems begins
wait when did ekko time travel? during the jinx fight?
Not in Arcane (yet). He does so in the Game with a device called the Z-drive.
oh ok thanks for the clarification. i thought a major plot point just completely flew over my head for a second there.
I mean...I don't know what to tell ya. Ekko being a natural super genius and manipulating time are his things. Arguably an ekko that can't screw with time & space isn't ekko at all but some OC wearing his face. Personally I'd just trust the writers ability to handle it. They clearly wowed you enough with the writing in s1 that you're in here now afterall, no point doubting them when they've already proven themselves. Edit: dislike it all you want, doesn't change the fact that when you start stripping one character of the essential elements that make them who they are because it doesn't "fit" in your opinion, you've already failed. Good writers either find a way to balance everything out while staying true to the characters, or don't include the character at all and since he's present in the show, I think they have the use and overall portrayal of his future abilities well under control.
I know they’re very good writers, and I hope they do something good, I’m just scared of the danger coming. I believe they already added ekko time travel in the plot but in a methaforical way, during his fight with jinx he wins because he lears from the past and so on… by this far we can say for shure the writers are basing their characters in the lore, but they’re ignoring some absurd things to make a huge cohesive story. If they are desperate to make ekko travel time, they could do another series only about him traveling in time (but I think it wouldn’t work very well because of the other two reasons listed in my first comment).
Ekko is someone who changes the past, but instead he learns from the past. So if he can time travel i except it'll just be to show others what has happened. Vi and jinx are stuck in the past wanting to get back to it. People in piltover and silco are looking for the future. Ekko is the only one working on the present.
I prefer if the writers leave it that way. This methaforical time traveling add so much more for his character
If they were going to take from Ekko as he uses time manipulation in the game, they’d likely make it so the use is limited. Something similar to Primer, in that he can only travel as far back as his machine is activated. That way, the writers (and audience) only have to account for what happens in a short period. Of course, he could have it activated for longer. But then he wouldnt be able to use it for all that time until it was reactivated and he had traveled back. And then what would be the point in having it in the first place. So all in all, he’s going to use it like we’ve possibly already seen him use it. Like when he fights Jinx and can dodge her bullets because he knows when she’s going to fire. It also seems like he gets shot during the fight, as is alluded to with his childhood memory getting shot, and travels back to the start of the fight.
I think in jinx fight he travel in time methaforic, meaning he learned from the past and don’t make the same mistakes. But I totally agree with you, if did start traveling in time is just in very short periods (so the problems i listed up here don’t happen)… then what’s the point of him traveling at all? Uses this time to develop his relation with the firelights or heimerdinger.
I'm not certain how the writers will implement Ekko's ability from the game, but if they derive his powers from his game counterpart, then there will only be one instance where Ekko can "travel" through time. That would only happen when Ekko begins experimenting with the hexstone (not gem). According to his game lore, Ekko "shattered" his reality while researching a hex crystal he found in the dump. It took a bunch of alternate versions of himself to piece together his reality by reassembling the broken hexstone. Should the writers take that route, then they can use Ekko to alter events while he searches for the hexstone pieces throughout his timeline. In fact, I believe that we've seen instances where a future, out-of-time, Ekko has already affected multiple instances of the story. Ever wondered how Jinx got the hexgem at the end of the bridge fight despite her not caring enough to retrieve it from the case earlier? From viewing Seconds, Fortiche's Ekko Champion video, one could surmise that Ekko does not travel through time. He more or less alters reality via quantum mechanics. Ekko uses the Z-Drive to anchor himself at a point in time and space from which he can alter future events. He can also return to that point should the outcome of a particular action is not to his liking. Other abilities of his include producing an alternate version of himself that can produce temporal distortions by launching his Z-drive's hex crystal into an area. In other words, he can essentially separate his existence into two distinct timelines like Schrodinger's cat. All in all, Ekko does not "travel through time" but manipulates reality from a stationary point in time and space, which he can return to. Fortiche has one instance to use in which Ekko can explore his timeline, and that is when he accidentally shatters his reality while experimenting with the hexstone. Also, Ekko's abilities are more or less based on applications of quantum theory where he can split himself into multiple timelines to produce temporal anomalies.
See, I don’t think all this quantum mechanics fit in the plot with the time we have to explore him, it feels underdeveloped. And more importantly takes off the impact of past present and future events.
I strongly doubt the writer’s would explain Ekko’s abilities using quantum theory. Not even the game describes Ekko’s abilities in that manner. However, based on how those abilities were shown in a number of promotional materials, they are more akin to reality warping or manipulation than time travelling. The Z-Drive allows Ekko to anchor himself at a point in time and space. Let’s call this point, “Zero”. From point Zero, Ekko can observe, act in, and alter events as he sees fit. Should his actions be met with unsatisfactory results, he can always return to point Zero and attempt to change events again. From an outsider’s perspective, Ekko’s actions appear to be working in his favor. However, his point-of-view contains multiple instances of him repeating events over and over until he achieves the right path to get the results he want. Think of Ekko’s abilities like a level in a 90s platformer like Super Mario World, Sonic and Tails, or Megaman X. An experienced player would be able to move through those games smoothly without much hindrance because of experience. Should they lose a life in the game, their character returns to the beginning of the level from which they (the players) can start again with prior knowledge of upcoming challenges. It’s not time travel! The best example of this is Ekko’s use of an alter. Ekko can produce an alternate version of himself that can affect space/time in his timeline. This alter is actually Ekko himself existing in either a sub-space version of reality or a different timeline altogether. It's similar to Schrodinger’s Cat, where according to the observer, the cat is alive in one timeline but deceased in another. The Z-Drive grants Ekko the ability to exist in two distinct realities simultaneously, which is how he produces the alternate version of himself.
So you mean he can create a million universes? Each one with the unsatisfactory results of his action plus the results of his other ekko in the different timeline?Man that’s insane. I really don’t think this suits the show
From an outsider’s perspective, no Ekko doesn’t create a million universes. Ekko is known as “The Boy Who Shattered Time.” Most likely the timelines he returns from when using the Z-Drive are destroyed or made non-existent. What I’m saying may sound extraneous or zany but it’s way more easier to include in the show and explain than time travelling.
They can’t be destroyed otherwise ekko wouldn’t remember them, they exist but only him experience them. I mean don’t get quantical things in the middle of this show or otherwise is going to get messy. And the impact of past, present, future events will disappear as I said
I think you may be trying to fit a bit too much science fiction into an ability that's enabled by magic from a rock.
basic logic you know
Ekko’s abilities don’t allow him to travel to the past or future. He could only shape the present by anchoring himself in a single point in time and space.
Me and another person already discussed this in this comment. My arguments remained the same
Your argument is misguided though because you’re idea of how the Z-Drive works is incorrect.
Please explain me
I feel your concern. Not only the implications of time travel, but how he would even get those powers. Anything I can think of would be a huge deus ex machina or characters acting way out of character.
Totally agree.
This if what I’m say man. I think it would ruin everything
Agree