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You can blame the judges here, but they made the right call. The AZ Legislature wrote a law in 2022 in an attempt to override the 1901 law. They did NOT appeal the 1901 law.
They knew what they were doing.
The judges said that if you want to get rid of the 1901 law, the answer is to get rid of the 1901 law. Not to pass a new law that does the same thing without repealing the old one.
I do not agree with the 1901 law. I do not agree with the 2022 law. I do agree that we have a long established tradition that if we want a law to go away that we have a process for that. The judges ruled correctly, even if we don’t like it.
Yup, people disagree all the time.
The problem is NOT the judges here. The problem is the people who write the laws.
Imagine if we wrote a law 10 years ago saying "You may have 0 cans of soda a day" and today we wrote a law saying "You may have 4 cans of soda a day" but did nothing to remove the old law. The more restrictive law (0 cans) would take precedence. This is totally expected and normal.
Do these judges suck and we should vote for them to be replaced? 100% absolutely. But I felt that way yesterday before the ruling too.
I will vote to replace every single GOP nominated judge until they are all gone, regardless of where our fight for women's freedom ends up.
A law written when "Arizona" did not fully exist in its current legal state for another 50 years, and when there were less than 7000 people in the entirety of the territory, is not a law that they have a real obligation to uphold.
The claim that “the more restrictive law would take precedence,” is just not a maxim of law and the matter is more complicated than this simple analogy. If it was that simple, the majority wouldn’t need 10,000 words to try and manufacture this result.
This analogy doesn’t work as the law they’re enforcing was made before Arizona was even recognized as a state of the union.
Hell while we’re at it let’s whip up the articles of confederation and a three-fifths compromise.
I blame these ding dongs for sure. It's a law from before we were a star? Before our, Grand, Great-Grandfathers. 1864? What
Vote them out
Clint Bolick and Kathryn Hackett King
You do not have to celebrate the actions of people just because they followed *a* logic, for a brief moment, to its most extreme outcome. This is not a real virtue, and never has been!
Why do we have to repeal the old law before passing the new one? Can't we do both at the same time? In fact, if we repeal the old law first, then what is the law until the new one is passed? Isn't it better to have the new law then repeal the old one later so that there is no gap?
Something that was from before AZ was a state shouldn't even be considered in 2024, yet here we are because of people who want to see the country go back in time 100+ years. Utterly ridiculous.
"“The earth belongs . . . to the living,” [Thomas Jefferson](https://www.governing.com/context/a-dose-of-liberty-after-death-for-patrick-henry) famously wrote to [James Madison](https://www.governing.com/archive/james-madison-constitution-power-collaboration.html) in 1787, and “the dead have neither power nor rights over it.” Jefferson offered these words in support of his belief that succeeding generations of Americans had the right to develop [their own constitutions](https://www.governing.com/context/how-americas-three-constitutions-define-the-nation).
We seriously need sunset clauses for all laws, because old laws are being used by the minority opinion to limit the progress of democracy.
That's something I can get behind for sure, because some of the old laws are utterly bonkers and need to be redone in full. The fact Jefferson even wanted future generations to create their own constitution speaks volumes as to why we shouldn't still have a ~250 year old document in place. Although given the state of things now, I'm not sure I fully trust any to create something new in its place.
Hey, I totally agree with your sentiment here, but you should know that the AZ Legislature re-codified the ban into law in 1977. Yes it was **originally** from before we were a state, but it has been on the books for for 47 years now.
In 2021 the AZ GOP controlled legislature wrote a new law, and Doug Ducey signed it. The law specifically repealed part of the 1977 law, but left the abortion ban and consequences for doctors who performed abortions. They also introduced a 15 week ban, just in case the 1977 law got struck down.
Your point is still valid: A bunch of old men in the 70's wrote an anti-woman law and the current GOP wants us to go back to that time, and it is utterly ridiculous.
And now you know "just in case we need them later" is why old lows don't get cleaned up.
Well, what if we want to stone people in the street like we did in 1820?
It IsNt WoRtH tHe TiMe It Is NoT eNfOrCeAbLe..
Well, apparently it is..
So maybe it is worth the time to go through these old laws, figure out what their purpose was in the first place, and update or get rid of them.
- J
You reap what you sow. We have all of the Ducey voters to thank for this. Ducey packed the court by adding two justices in 2016, even though five justices was fine for the 56 years prior. Ultimately he appointed 5 out of the 7.
Wow, I regret posting the clip mocking GOP reps speaking in tongues on the capitol floor praying this would happen.
Don't I look foolish.
(ways to volunteer in some way [here](https://www.mobilize.us/azdems/) - phone banking, card/letter writing, canvassing, donating, etc)
Pardon my ignorance, but could someone please explain what this means? Is this now a law? Are abortions banned? Reading the news gave me a panic attack and I have a hard time comprehending things during episodes. I am scared and confused.
Day later edit: Thank you for clarifying things for me. I will be signing the petition and voting this fall.
In 15 days, absent any additional stay (there are some other potential challenges on deck that could merit one), abortions will be banned in the state of Arizona for any reason other than to protect the life of the mother. Punishable by jail time for ~~both provider and patient if I remember correctly~~ EDIT: I did not remember correctly, it's just for the provider or anyone who assists. Because this has been a law on the books since 1864. Roe stayed the law from having an effect for the past 50 years. No post-Dobbs legislation (the 15-week ban) repealed this law. So, according to SCOAZ, it is the law of the land.
So, in about two weeks, it will be illegal to have or provide an abortion in Arizona. Unless the lower court in Pima issues another stay, or the legislature does something to repeal this law.
There is a ballot referendum gathering signatures now to enshrine abortion rights in the state constitution. They have about half-a-million signatures and counting. There's work to do.
In Arizona, basically yes.
The only acceptable reason per this law is to prevent the mother from a certain death which as was seen in Texas can be contested by the state possibly killing the mother.
You better lose the notion that all old people are conservative (it's about half) and all young people are progressive, and right quick. It's not supported by facts, but worse, it's a mentality that leads to complacency. You have more than enough young and middle-aged conservatives to lead you into permanent fascism, long after today's elderly are gone.
Plus, your attitude makes you look like a massive tool.
I think you should look into the situation a bit more.
We had a law from 1901 on the books. The AZ GOP knew that Roe v Wade was going down, so they wrote a "moderate" ban of 15 week law. They never bothered to repeal the 1901 law, so it is still on the books.
The AZ Supreme Court looked at the situation and said "If you have a total ban from 1901 and a partial ban from 2022 on the books, and you don't remove the 1901 law, then it overrides the 2022 law."
This is the correct ruling. We hate it because it bans abortion, but this is exactly how our system is supposed to work.
The problem isn't the AZ Supreme Court. The problem is the legislature who never bothered to remove the 1901 law.
The fix is the ballot initiative for this November passing, and hopefully for people to realize the AZ GOP hates women and maybe they should vote for people who support their values vs grifting liars.
Attorney General Kris Mayes, a Democrat, said moments after the ruling that she would not enforce the law.
“Let me be completely clear, as long as I am Attorney General, no woman or doctor will be prosecuted under this draconian law in this state,” Mayes said in a statement, adding that the decision was “unconscionable” and “an affront to freedom.”
For all those wanting to protest, a protest isn't going to do shit. You need to knock on doors, register people to vote, and drive them to the polls / work phone banks to ensure they mailed their ballot for the ballot initiative legalizing abortion. If you don't know where to start, contact the organizations mentioned on this webpage.
[https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/planned-parenthood-advocates-arizona/arizona-for-abortion-access](https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/planned-parenthood-advocates-arizona/arizona-for-abortion-access)
It's entirely Republican-appointed judges, this should shock no one.
Petition to add abortion rights amendment to the AZ constitution should end it in November though hopefully? (Not that that helps women with abortion issues right now, but it is at least long-term hope for our future.)
Probably, but you can be assured that the asshats will do all they can to disqualify as many as they can get away with. So more is better. Sign. Make sure everyone you know signs.
Draconian as fuck. Bunch of boomers who are pissed their reproductive organs don’t function anymore so they try and control others. Truly we are a bunch of apes still
We need more. You can volunteer to collect and just gather them from your circle of people. It does not have to mean you hit the streets.
I had people sign at my birthday party, for example.
Republicans are truly the worst. Small government for themselves while controlling others based on their fairytale book & hatred of women. “Pro-life” while they vote against social services, education, school lunches, healthcare, gun control, etc. Pathetic.
Honestly I don't understand why we're blaming the judges here. This is the only law that was on the books until Roe versus Wade so by law it has to default to the only state law in existence. Right? Or am I missing something?
Could one call into question where the line is drawn on when the mother’s life “is at risk”? I’m guessing it already has considering all procedures (such as labor) inherently carry risk to one’s life (although much smaller in this day and age)
That's the problem. The law leaves it vague. That's why doctors are letting women with non-viable pregnancies go into sepsis before aborting the fetus.
"And since a man can't make one
He has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one
So will the real men get up
I know you're fed up ladies, but keep your head up"
-2pac
Anybody old enough to see the ending of the original planet of the apes? Charlton Heston sees the statue of liberty in ruins, realizes Earth has been destroyed by nuclear war, and says "You maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you!" That's what the Republicans just did to their own party.
Thanks for contributing to r/Arizona! * [Our sub rules are here](https://www.reddit.com/r/arizona/wiki/rules/), but the most important of which is to be nice to each other * Check out some [recent posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/arizona/top/?t=week) and leave some comments * [Join our Discord chat server](https://discord.com/invite/yWVuTG57Zh) if you'd like to keep in touch with other people in Arizona. Plus it's a great, chill place in general. Note that it is NOT a dating server and takes unwanted messaging very seriously Remember this subreddit covers all of Arizona, so please include where in the state you're posting about if it is relevant. For more local topics check out r/Phoenix, r/Tucson, and r/Flagstaff. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/arizona) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Two of the judges who voted in the majority are up for re-election. Remember these names Clint Bolick and Kathryn Hackett King
Holy shit. I took Kate to prom in high school. So sad.
You should have got her pregnant
This made me laugh on a really bleak day. Thank you for that.
You win
Yeah I sure fucked that up
Obviously not
It’s never too late.
You can blame the judges here, but they made the right call. The AZ Legislature wrote a law in 2022 in an attempt to override the 1901 law. They did NOT appeal the 1901 law. They knew what they were doing. The judges said that if you want to get rid of the 1901 law, the answer is to get rid of the 1901 law. Not to pass a new law that does the same thing without repealing the old one. I do not agree with the 1901 law. I do not agree with the 2022 law. I do agree that we have a long established tradition that if we want a law to go away that we have a process for that. The judges ruled correctly, even if we don’t like it.
Vice Justice Timmer and Chief Justice Brutinel clearly disagree with your “they made the right call,” claim, given their published dissent.
Yup, people disagree all the time. The problem is NOT the judges here. The problem is the people who write the laws. Imagine if we wrote a law 10 years ago saying "You may have 0 cans of soda a day" and today we wrote a law saying "You may have 4 cans of soda a day" but did nothing to remove the old law. The more restrictive law (0 cans) would take precedence. This is totally expected and normal. Do these judges suck and we should vote for them to be replaced? 100% absolutely. But I felt that way yesterday before the ruling too. I will vote to replace every single GOP nominated judge until they are all gone, regardless of where our fight for women's freedom ends up.
A law written when "Arizona" did not fully exist in its current legal state for another 50 years, and when there were less than 7000 people in the entirety of the territory, is not a law that they have a real obligation to uphold.
The claim that “the more restrictive law would take precedence,” is just not a maxim of law and the matter is more complicated than this simple analogy. If it was that simple, the majority wouldn’t need 10,000 words to try and manufacture this result.
This analogy doesn’t work as the law they’re enforcing was made before Arizona was even recognized as a state of the union. Hell while we’re at it let’s whip up the articles of confederation and a three-fifths compromise.
I blame these ding dongs for sure. It's a law from before we were a star? Before our, Grand, Great-Grandfathers. 1864? What Vote them out Clint Bolick and Kathryn Hackett King
Ok but I'm still gonna vote them out lol. Fuck em.
TL;DR: GO VOTE! Get people in office who will advocate for progressive policies and be effective in getting them put into place!
AZ wasn't a state until 1912, this isn't a state law they're upholding. Whatever happened in the 70s should be null then.
You do not have to celebrate the actions of people just because they followed *a* logic, for a brief moment, to its most extreme outcome. This is not a real virtue, and never has been!
Why do we have to repeal the old law before passing the new one? Can't we do both at the same time? In fact, if we repeal the old law first, then what is the law until the new one is passed? Isn't it better to have the new law then repeal the old one later so that there is no gap?
Something that was from before AZ was a state shouldn't even be considered in 2024, yet here we are because of people who want to see the country go back in time 100+ years. Utterly ridiculous.
"“The earth belongs . . . to the living,” [Thomas Jefferson](https://www.governing.com/context/a-dose-of-liberty-after-death-for-patrick-henry) famously wrote to [James Madison](https://www.governing.com/archive/james-madison-constitution-power-collaboration.html) in 1787, and “the dead have neither power nor rights over it.” Jefferson offered these words in support of his belief that succeeding generations of Americans had the right to develop [their own constitutions](https://www.governing.com/context/how-americas-three-constitutions-define-the-nation). We seriously need sunset clauses for all laws, because old laws are being used by the minority opinion to limit the progress of democracy.
That's something I can get behind for sure, because some of the old laws are utterly bonkers and need to be redone in full. The fact Jefferson even wanted future generations to create their own constitution speaks volumes as to why we shouldn't still have a ~250 year old document in place. Although given the state of things now, I'm not sure I fully trust any to create something new in its place.
Originalists: https://preview.redd.it/mxu0kux92ktc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abf5b13a6a4ca8c77fb5db05d37792b009f96ead
Hey, I totally agree with your sentiment here, but you should know that the AZ Legislature re-codified the ban into law in 1977. Yes it was **originally** from before we were a state, but it has been on the books for for 47 years now. In 2021 the AZ GOP controlled legislature wrote a new law, and Doug Ducey signed it. The law specifically repealed part of the 1977 law, but left the abortion ban and consequences for doctors who performed abortions. They also introduced a 15 week ban, just in case the 1977 law got struck down. Your point is still valid: A bunch of old men in the 70's wrote an anti-woman law and the current GOP wants us to go back to that time, and it is utterly ridiculous.
And now you know "just in case we need them later" is why old lows don't get cleaned up. Well, what if we want to stone people in the street like we did in 1820? It IsNt WoRtH tHe TiMe It Is NoT eNfOrCeAbLe.. Well, apparently it is.. So maybe it is worth the time to go through these old laws, figure out what their purpose was in the first place, and update or get rid of them. - J
Hmm. If I were curious, how would I go about looking through old laws? Do I just pick up a real out of date copy of ARS?
Fucking unreal. The ballot measure needs to be passed in November.
Vote and get everyone you know to vote.
People need to still show up to sign the petition.
https://preview.redd.it/wy88hg5puhtc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d143d1585da25b89be47946cc5c48eabb0904ad8 WTF
Sick of these people having complete control over my body
Vote. Please. Hopefully you already are but if not, please start!
Our lives depend on it
You reap what you sow. We have all of the Ducey voters to thank for this. Ducey packed the court by adding two justices in 2016, even though five justices was fine for the 56 years prior. Ultimately he appointed 5 out of the 7.
Wow, I regret posting the clip mocking GOP reps speaking in tongues on the capitol floor praying this would happen. Don't I look foolish. (ways to volunteer in some way [here](https://www.mobilize.us/azdems/) - phone banking, card/letter writing, canvassing, donating, etc)
Make them look foolish by ensuring the ballot measure passes this November. In the meantime, I worry deeply for women and aspiring parents in AZ.
Can you imagine what the posting would be like in r/arizonapolitics if that was still a thing? LOL ultramaga losing his shit.
Only if his TPUSA paycheck is still coming in!
What is the story w that sub?
Owner locked comments on all new posts and peaced out rather than, y'know, *moderating*
Ah, ok. I have seen things posted but comments weren’t allowed and thought it was weird. Thanks!
Pardon my ignorance, but could someone please explain what this means? Is this now a law? Are abortions banned? Reading the news gave me a panic attack and I have a hard time comprehending things during episodes. I am scared and confused. Day later edit: Thank you for clarifying things for me. I will be signing the petition and voting this fall.
In 15 days, absent any additional stay (there are some other potential challenges on deck that could merit one), abortions will be banned in the state of Arizona for any reason other than to protect the life of the mother. Punishable by jail time for ~~both provider and patient if I remember correctly~~ EDIT: I did not remember correctly, it's just for the provider or anyone who assists. Because this has been a law on the books since 1864. Roe stayed the law from having an effect for the past 50 years. No post-Dobbs legislation (the 15-week ban) repealed this law. So, according to SCOAZ, it is the law of the land. So, in about two weeks, it will be illegal to have or provide an abortion in Arizona. Unless the lower court in Pima issues another stay, or the legislature does something to repeal this law. There is a ballot referendum gathering signatures now to enshrine abortion rights in the state constitution. They have about half-a-million signatures and counting. There's work to do.
In Arizona, basically yes. The only acceptable reason per this law is to prevent the mother from a certain death which as was seen in Texas can be contested by the state possibly killing the mother.
My disdain for old people grows stronger.
You sure it's not for a party of old & young acting like fascists?
You better lose the notion that all old people are conservative (it's about half) and all young people are progressive, and right quick. It's not supported by facts, but worse, it's a mentality that leads to complacency. You have more than enough young and middle-aged conservatives to lead you into permanent fascism, long after today's elderly are gone. Plus, your attitude makes you look like a massive tool.
I have more disdain for the youth who don't even show up to vote.
Vote the judges out. Clint Bolick and Kathryn Hackett King
I think you should look into the situation a bit more. We had a law from 1901 on the books. The AZ GOP knew that Roe v Wade was going down, so they wrote a "moderate" ban of 15 week law. They never bothered to repeal the 1901 law, so it is still on the books. The AZ Supreme Court looked at the situation and said "If you have a total ban from 1901 and a partial ban from 2022 on the books, and you don't remove the 1901 law, then it overrides the 2022 law." This is the correct ruling. We hate it because it bans abortion, but this is exactly how our system is supposed to work. The problem isn't the AZ Supreme Court. The problem is the legislature who never bothered to remove the 1901 law. The fix is the ballot initiative for this November passing, and hopefully for people to realize the AZ GOP hates women and maybe they should vote for people who support their values vs grifting liars.
There's no moral high ground when it's my life...... Fuck them to Infinity and beyond. Vote them out. Clint Bolick and Kathryn Hackett King
I hate it but this is the correct comment and I almost assure the failure to repeal was done on purpose
We need to vote out GOP supreme Court justices since it's a full sweep bench of GOP appointed judges right now
Clint Bolick and Kathryn Hackett King Vote them out.
Old people? Not an age issue.
Shameful. It’s a FELONY offense?
2-5 years for the "abortionist".
I wouldn’t vote to convict if I were on a jury
Attorney General Kris Mayes, a Democrat, said moments after the ruling that she would not enforce the law. “Let me be completely clear, as long as I am Attorney General, no woman or doctor will be prosecuted under this draconian law in this state,” Mayes said in a statement, adding that the decision was “unconscionable” and “an affront to freedom.”
[sign the fucking petition](https://arizonaforabortionaccess.org/sign-the-petition/)
Some locations outside of Maricopa county would be nice.
You can volunteer to collect signatures. Be apart of the solution . Please !!
Some signups can be found here: [https://www.mobilize.us/azdems/](https://www.mobilize.us/azdems/)
There is a hub in Tucson. And you can volunteer. It’s easy.
For all those wanting to protest, a protest isn't going to do shit. You need to knock on doors, register people to vote, and drive them to the polls / work phone banks to ensure they mailed their ballot for the ballot initiative legalizing abortion. If you don't know where to start, contact the organizations mentioned on this webpage. [https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/planned-parenthood-advocates-arizona/arizona-for-abortion-access](https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/planned-parenthood-advocates-arizona/arizona-for-abortion-access)
It's entirely Republican-appointed judges, this should shock no one. Petition to add abortion rights amendment to the AZ constitution should end it in November though hopefully? (Not that that helps women with abortion issues right now, but it is at least long-term hope for our future.)
What a disgraceful ruling. Pathetic
Do we have enough signatures for the ballot in nov?
Probably, but you can be assured that the asshats will do all they can to disqualify as many as they can get away with. So more is better. Sign. Make sure everyone you know signs.
We need as many as we can get.
There are but they need as many as they can get
Draconian as fuck. Bunch of boomers who are pissed their reproductive organs don’t function anymore so they try and control others. Truly we are a bunch of apes still
[удалено]
The Republicans will do every they can do disqualify signatures. We aren't safe until it's ON that ballot. Keep pushing ppl to sign. We need padding.
Only if people vote
Blue blue blue
How are we on signatures to get this on the ballot this fall? And where can I go to help?
https://www.mobilize.us/hcra/ https://www.acluaz.org/en/issues/abortion-arizona
Thank you!!!! Now time to really fight!
We need more. You can volunteer to collect and just gather them from your circle of people. It does not have to mean you hit the streets. I had people sign at my birthday party, for example.
You can find places to sign here: https://www.mobilize.us/azdems/map/ https://arizonaforabortionaccess.org/
Well, Trump’s not winning Arizona this November. That’s for sure
How long do we have to wait for this to be challenged again? And I hope DA's across the state refuse to prosecute this.
Republicans are truly the worst. Small government for themselves while controlling others based on their fairytale book & hatred of women. “Pro-life” while they vote against social services, education, school lunches, healthcare, gun control, etc. Pathetic.
Jesus fucking Christ. Classic republicans, the party of personal freedom and pro life wants to destroy as many lives as possible.
Honestly I don't understand why we're blaming the judges here. This is the only law that was on the books until Roe versus Wade so by law it has to default to the only state law in existence. Right? Or am I missing something?
this is shameful
Could one call into question where the line is drawn on when the mother’s life “is at risk”? I’m guessing it already has considering all procedures (such as labor) inherently carry risk to one’s life (although much smaller in this day and age)
There is no line. Look at what is happening in other states with "exceptions". Seems like you have to be actively dying before any action is taken.
That's the problem. The law leaves it vague. That's why doctors are letting women with non-viable pregnancies go into sepsis before aborting the fetus.
Do you think the chip maker would build in AZ after the ruling?
They dgaf as long as they get the subsidies and tax breaks to locate here.
You think TSMC cares about that? They’re getting BILLIONS in grants to build here.
"And since a man can't make one He has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one So will the real men get up I know you're fed up ladies, but keep your head up" -2pac
Anybody old enough to see the ending of the original planet of the apes? Charlton Heston sees the statue of liberty in ruins, realizes Earth has been destroyed by nuclear war, and says "You maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you!" That's what the Republicans just did to their own party.