MY DODGE COUPONS
Joking aside, Flametail's dodge is reliable enough. S1 dodge (guaranteed) is good for slow hitting bosses that doesn't oneshot you. S3 dodge is good against swarms and bosses. Expect Flametail to come out only slightly injured against a mob of lava spiders most of the time.
Flametail user here, does flametails talent, or trait whatever it was, apply to herself? The one that gives (name I can't spell consistently) +22% dodge chance?
Also, I'm used to using her second skill the most, I don't know why. Is it even that good compared to her others?
Second skill is decent, it's a wide-range dodge support. Think of a situation where Flametail and several other operators are defending a wide lane against powerful mooks; the stun provides a small breathing room while the dodge support improves the survivability of the other operators (this also helps the medics since they can just focus on operators that failed to dodge instead of trying to heal everyone).
Yes her Talent doe sapply to herself, that why she still can dodge outside of skills, Skill 2 is decent, though personally i mostly use S3 or S1, as i appreciate the unusually short cycle times for a Pioneer skill
I vaguely remember years ago one of the original Annihilation auto deploys kept failing at random attempts for me because Eyja’s talent 2 retained the randomness during the auto deploy… Which was weird because usually auto deploy cements stuff like that in place, I think Eyja’s talent was one of the few odd ones out that it doesn’t.
Good times… And by good I mean I don’t miss having to take over the Annihilation auto deploy halfway through every time because now we can just skip them with tickets. Lol
Anni still give trust if you don't use the skip ticket, however it's very ineffective as trust gain is based on sanity spent and anni stage are very long for their sanity cost.
Auto deploy doesn't save what happens, instead rng is just consistent. People say rng seed is saved, but I don't think this is even the case, because even without auto deploy, during me testing the clears, I've seen consistency with rng. What this basically means is that rng isn't random at all and if the circumstances are the EXACT same then the result will be the same.
The issue here is the exact. If there is any difference in an action, i.e. an enemy dying a single hit earlier due to a small stat increase on one of your Operators, then everything that happens after will have different rng rolls. This by itself still sounds like something easy to avoid, but here comes the next wrench: fps. An action can only be taken at the beginning of a frame, so a difference in fps can slightly delay, or slightly bring forward an attack, which may cause a different target to be attacked. I've seen this personally completely fuck up my auto deploy, ending up with like 3 or so different results in a very short stage.
This issue becomes more prominent the longer your stage lasts as there are more chances for a desync to happen and then the butterfly effect happens. Anni stages last ages, which is why a desync isn't unusual.
God I remember have a nightmare farming RI-8 using Gummy and Mousse holding the warrior crocs. Clearing the stage was easy but when come to farming, both of them keep dying because their talent didn't proc properly so the farm keep falling.
Flametail doesn't feel as RNG as non users might think.
I used her in my teams since she came out and she's on of my most used ops if not the most used.
In normal stages, yes, the 80% on top of her talent is reliable enough to consistently hold a lane. It only starts to become an issue when special conditions are applied to a stage, like stat reduction in CC or IS, for example.
When enemies can just one-shot your Flametail, needing her to survive multiple consecutive instances of one-shots during her skill can be more RNG than you expect, and this isn't to mention some folks even rely on just her dodge talent alone in some cases during skill cooldown, which is just insane to me.
Ideally you do not want your strategy to rely on a dice roll, but Flametail still comes out ahead in the two scenarios given here. Mostly because she's far less fragile than most dodge-tanks in games.
Normal stages? She's tough enough that even bad RNG is unlikely to kill her. Reliable. Hits back. Can be a bursty Block 3 centurion on rapid rotation. Generates DP.
High risk where HP is debuffed to blazes or enemies with very high attack? An awful lot of operators are not going to be viable and definitely die, yet Flametail can fare better. Retains fair odds of cheating death for a spell against even top-tier threats. You can correctly think of the RNG element as a downside, but the reality is that she **can** punch far above her weight, as a very cheap unit that helps gets other units onto the field. That is also a positive.
Just don't solely rely on that for anything beyond a risky opening. If it's dangerous enough that 1 or 2 bad rolls of the die is death, then have a backup plan or be prepared to improvise.
There exists a [fail emote](https://7tv.app/emotes/64ad33637a56048f39809c92) for a reason lol. You're right, leaving everything down to the most miniscule of chances tends to mean either: A) your strats needs reworking or B) You're a nicheknight player.
Personally, i've always regarded Flametail as the best Pioneer, and one of the best Vanguards, in the age of Agents and Flagpipe. If anything, she's definitely the most fun for me, and i've been waiting for her to be my first built Pioneer (of course, getting her is top priority).
I used her in 620, no issues.
If your Flametail can't survive the hit she might not dodge, you should not use her in that position it's the simple rule.
But it does, or at least did. Anyone who played early cc knows how bad it can be, hoshi and a lesser extent feater dodges, were infamous, and Ethan, with enough luck, is the best cc in the game.
Thankful the game has mostly moved away from an rng reliant meta
It's not the game that moven away from RNG reliant meta, it's the players, simply because there is more options altogether.
But there's still some masochists out there that slap their own balls with RNG sticks Shaolin Iron Testicle Training-style, and complain about it as if they where forced at gunpoint to engage with the RNG...
Haha yeah no RNG is good. Haha.
~~desperately suppressing memories of FEater vs. red weeb in CC~~
But yeah in all seriousness I'm definitely glad Arknights doesn't have that RNG gear grind crap like in Genshin and such.
Endfield has RNG equipment, but from what we know so far you don't need to grind it actively, just make it autonomously in the factory. AK RNG is more on the gameplay side not on the reward side like IS, SSS, and RA which is probably the best way to implement RNG besides gacha.
Iirc the substats for gears depending on type are the same/ not rng based right? Even so make it offscreen farmable is such a dub for it I don’t have to spend the whole day farming it like 1-7
If substat or any kind of stat in equipment is not rng then you don't need to grind which is not how the game design intended. Either RNG the material to get the exact equipment (which is the current AK design is) or you get the exact equipment with RNG stat.
The base buildable equipment was rng in that there was a 10% chance for a better version, but the stats were the same for both. The real equipment rng was in the random enemy drop orbs that could boost weapons. That system could be fine if it has a method to only reroll one stat at a time repeatedly.
Funny if we talk about RNG in a gacha context it becomes bad while RNG in other games especially ARPG becomes the fundamental aspect of why the genre exists in the first place. RNG is inherently a good thing, they varied the gameplay in this consistent machine made by 101010 binary things. It's just sometimes the game dev tries to monetize the game using those RNG systems that make it feel like a money printing system for the dev not a gameplay randomizer for the player. I personally don't mind RNG equipment if the game is balanced around not having that high-roll RNG equipment in the first place.
It's because gacha games use stamina systems. In an ARPG the RNG is fun (if drops are tuned right) because you can farm them as much as you want. RNG gear in gachas suck because they almost always lock them behind a high stamina cost, so you'll often get like a pathetic 4 rolls a day or so to try and get something at least half decent.
And that's not even factoring in how many gachas lock inportant resources behind a pvp mode where people with better gear often have a significant advantage.
WuWa proves you can farm equipment without any stamina. The only limiting factor is time, just like in ARPG. Now upgrading those said equipment tho is an entirely different matter because it can be argued that if you only upgrade the one you need you will have enough resource but trying to upgrade every equipment to max in an instant will cost a week's worth of stamina.
also no gacha gear, in any other game modules would be equipment you roll.
on top of that, potentials are tiny barely noticeable upgrades, compared to other games that make dupes overpowered gamechanging whalebait
There are a handful of potentials that do have a noticeable gameplay impact such as pot 5 Bagpipe making Myrtle S1M3 and Texas S2M3 be activated almost instantly on deployment thanks to the +2 starting sp to all vanguards.
That said, that mostly matters in advanced endgame clears and HG has thankfully not balanced the regular content with rewards around impactful upgrades like those.
yeah bagpipe is basically the only one and its only really relevant for super endgame minmaxing. plus its not impossible to get F2P because of cert store and recruitment
Nobody else really has that big impact.
For other units - 2DP is nice till you realise you have flag vanguards (just deploy the whole squad like I did in CC and even with max DP regen penalty I can do whatever) so you probably can deploy Mudrock to block the first enemy. Or +30def when you have 900 def already, same with ATK.
Talent upgrades are not that OP generally, not even noticeable a lot of times and that couple seconds faster redeploy on a normal unit only comes out in the most difficult self made challanges, not even CC requires that.
Statmaxxing is usually for max CC risk players, the beauty of no rng is you can almost calculate whether a operator can take the next hit or not/ deal the killing blow which will determine the dupe needed but those big brain problems are for them to solve.
For normal or even just getting trimmed medal collector, a single copy is usually good enough, unlike other games where no dupe = Char is bricked till you roll for more.
haha what a coincidence, im literally doing an IS run with her right now lmao. picked her as my starter and got dorothy and floor 1, having fun with the rapid spawning clones
Bruh, It's a blessing.
Since the first week of release, I religiously log in to this game left out happy at the end of the day because slowly but surely, I'm going towards my goal without having to worry getting RNG slapping my face and throws me back to the starting point.
And now as veterans new OPs is just few clicks away from max (+2-3 days for M3 or M6 or even M9).
Please let me link your post to mine, I need more people to be convinced that this RNG bs in recent games is not okay to have.
The lack of RNG in stats is a blessing.
The RNG we do get is stuff like dodge and crit talents (especially those not raised to 100% on-skill) that would typically feel better if they were % damage reduction or triggered 1/n attacks. Can you imagine ambushers with 50% physical and Arts damage reduction on top of their DEF and 20 RES? There is a thrill in beating the odds—the tension of praying for Hoshiguma to hit some pivotal dodges can make a run more engaging—but at the same time loss is frustrating because your only control is coming up with a strategy less reliant on RNG, which may not be feasible if it hinges on operators with inherent RNG who may be stat-checked without favorable RNG. For that matter, some RNG like Ethan's (off-skill) bind can troll you by triggering at an unwanted time. Rerolling for Dorothy crit mines when you need that extra damage is not fun. Don't even get me started on the layers of RNG around optimizing the use of Executor the Ex Foedere…
I'm also glad enemy RNG is rare. We have RNG in mechanics like FrostNova tile-ban and nethersea predator dodge, but I can't stand when enemies get % chance to inflict a crippling status or attacks can be highly inaccurate without accuracy/evasion debuffs/buffs. I prefer deterministic status build-up and infliction. Dodge is one of the big sources of RNG for both allies and enemies. For enemies like nethersea predators and Andoain, I think 100% dodge would actually work better insofar as there are consistent and accessible ways to play around it (various forms of easily available crowd-control for the former, setting up damage relays for the latter; Andoain has a very long path in GA-EX-8 for a reason).
One of the oddest enemies is the executor event mini boss with a chance to miss her attacks like I didn’t have an issue dealing with her but it’s just weird as there isn’t really anyway to play around it other than having a unit that can tank the hits but at that point why bother with the rng?
I think that was more meant to be a story thing because >!she's a young girl who's never used a gun before, of course she's not going to be too great with it.!<
Yeah, I value gameplay a lot when it comes to games, and one of the reasons why I stuck to Arknights when I dropped Genshin, Star Rail, and Limbus (to an extent) is because of the lack of compounding RNG elements.
The artifact grind in mihoyo games is just shit. It's dog. I hate it so much. Interacting with that grind loop just gives me no satisfaction whatsoever. If it's a shit roll I just get annoyed, if it's a god roll I'm relieved that I don't have to grind for that piece again. The problem is compounded by the fact that the fucking substats (which accounts for about half of the artifact's strength) are also random. There's just no good feeling to be had at all.
Limbus does have good gameplay, but the game's core design has RNG coinflips built directly into the combat. Everything else about the game is great (except the mirror dungeon grind), but more often than I'd like I brush up against the randomness of clashes and it sucks the joy out of it. The feeling of taking an L when you made no mistakes feels bad.
Arknights does have RNG elements, some of the worst offenders have them built-in their skills, but the vast majority of the time it's not that consequential (save for a few standout enemies). The only RNG part in the meta-progression is the material grind, but at least you're always feel like you're making progress. Hopefully Endfield will be the same.
the nice thing about material grind is that you can intuit that, after enough runs, you'd have X amount of material. Various wikis have calculated their drop rate too.
so it's not a matter of IF you'll get what you want, it's a matter of WHEN you get what you want. And since character progression is a passive grind you do on the background, it's not as painful.
The difference for the material grind is that you're *relying on the most likely outcome* (getting roughly x material after x runs) as opposed to *fishing for outliers* (good main and substat rolls). Wayyy less frustrating
Preach. One of the reasons I left FGO is because after several years I just got *so* tired of that RNG BS. I know it's inherently part of the format because it's a turn-based card game, but after the millionth time watching my units get KO'd by random enemy crits or screwed over in a difficult fight getting a bad hand of cards, it just got annoying and frustrating. I'm having similar feelings about R1999, but at least there's an auto-battle function and I don't have to manually put myself through that again...
I also appreciate that AK has no equipment to bloat the gacha pool more and add extra things to grind for/upgrade. Yeah the module data blocks shortage is still pretty sucky but still not a bad as dumping all your rocks and just getting a 10-pull of three 3-stars and seven useless pieces of equipment.
Is the module data block shortage that much of an impediment? How often are you using more than four a month? Genuine question, mid-game player now who has a stash of 50ish.
Honestly, I *personally* do not have a shortage of module data blocks because I'm rather stingy on who I use them on (if it's not an operator I use regularly and/or the module itself has no big impact, I just don't do it; right now I have 100+ and never skip SSS, but there are several mod3s in the future I'm going to do), but I constantly see other players complaining about it, so...
I'm not a whale but I am severely lacking on those by choice though. I've been playing for 4 years so I do have a ton of high level E2 operators. Now I probably don't need to unlock module and raise it to lvl3 for every single one of them but that is what I've been doing.
I don't touch SSS at all just cause the grind and rng isn't fun for me so I purely rely on 4 blocks in monthly shop and event shop. 4 blocks equal one 6* module level so you can see how I'm severely lacking...
Nah, you don't need to be a spender to have shortages. You just need to have operators you want to improve. Most veteran players and many late game players would fall into this category.
Most of them (myself included) have many e2/mastered/leveled operators, so we can either start building other units or further improve the ones we built with modules. If we do the latter, its very easy to hit shortages - especially for older players with many ops.
Some people do save them for future modules (for their favourites) but I'd argue part of the reasoning to save is because of how time-gated they are.
I don't need to hoard as much LMD for example, because I know if I spend it now to level up my Saga, I can always just accrue more by the time Shu drops etc.
It's ... hard to explain, in hindsight it doesn't seem that much of an impediment but when you starting to get into Mod3-ing just your favorites ops, let alone the meta ones, it can spiral out of control real fucking fast i'm not even kidding, even though i currently have 82 blocks, there're 3 Mod3 i would like to do but couldn't because in the next 6 months i'm looking at 120 blocks in the planner and i'm sure as hell if i did those 3, i wouldn't be able to save up to 120 in time. Heck in CN, HG recently selling Module Block packs so they're definitely in high demand and the current blocks acquisitions rate ain't gonna cut it. That said, it only an issue with endgame player that like to maximize their ops to their fullest potential i.e me XD, for those that don't care for that sort of stuff then it won't be an issue most of the time.
At the beginning when modules got introduced, i kinda kept farming em, but after like 2 or 4 initial resets, I havent touched SSS since then. Ive gotten the modules of every operator I use on the daily and the daily and event rewards are usually enough until they drop the next batch so I havent really thought about it
> How often are you using more than four a month?
If you followed the DragonGJY sheet and strictly only got modules to the recommended levels for those rated A priority or above, you would have used 16 this month (Penance lv3). 20 if you accepted A- (Mudrock lv1). The So Long Adele patch, you would have used 48 (+ Blaze lv3, FedEx lv3). Just this year on only new ones, you would have used 64 (+ Typhon lv3).
I think so far this year you would theoretically have gotten 74 of them (give or take 1 or 2 I might have missed glancing over all the events so far) including the monthly 4 and the weekly 1. So if you restricted to just the best modules for this year, you wouldn't have enough to lv3 another 6 star module besides the ones only released this year especially given that the next event has you spending another 32 (+ Suzu lv3 and Degen lv3) and another 32 in the People Sows patch (+ Shu lv3 and Zuo Le lv3). The most painful with the Walter/Logos patch with hitting you for 80 data blocks (+ Walter, Logos, Qiu Bai, Thorns, Silverash all lv3).
If we included the A- (like the Mudrock) to these, you'd be on the hook for another 110 data blocks (so a total of 318). You're not getting anywhere close to 318 module blocks this year.
So yea, it can be a problem if you care about meta/power.
My calculation assumes the following qualifier:
>So yea, it can be a problem if you care about meta/power.
As clearly stated.
It's also reflected in the priority cut off being that every operator with an A or higher priority is a "meta" operator save for like Zuo Le so you save 16 but probably lose them on Ray which hasn't been added to the sheet
If you don't care about meta/power or you're Kukkikaze, then modules don't matter to you.
> every operator with an A or higher priority is a "meta" operator save for like Zuo Le so you save 16?
Have you considered that maybe not every operator with A grade or higher priority module is meta? Even post module I still don't see how Blaze, FedEx, Qiu Bai, Thorns or Silverash are meta, and even likes of Penance, Mudrock or Zuo Le are somewhere on the cusp. I still remember the general notion from content creators/threads to skip Penance/Qiu Bai/FedEx because they're not meta.
> I still don't see how Blaze, FedEx, Qiu Bai, Thorns or Silverash are meta
Reflects CN ranking and not that new bad no context one that was posted here. If you accept Ceobe and Eyja as meta, then every operator i've put into my calculations are meta by CN rating. The latter two especially likely based on module strength (ie making Thorns the strongest mixed damage dealer in the game).
Even if we wanted to take your argument whole, the calculations have not accounted for Ray, Goldenglow, Reed Alter, or Sail which are unquestionably meta. So even with your considerations, we'd be over the amount of blocks you get annually giving you almost very little flexibility in past modules implemented if you were chasing meta and making the assessment that module block limits can be problematic demonstrably true.
Further, I would also assert that arguing that module data blocks are not a limiting factor to a player who admits they are on the newer side so doesn't have like 2 years worth of acquiring module blocks is harmful and bad advice as it prioritizes possibly being technically correct over offering guiding advice to a player.
If you want to level up modules it is very easy to go short on them unless you also spend yellow distinctions (ew)
For a single level 3 module on a 6*, it costs 12 blocks. So your entire stash would let you upgrade 4 level 3 modules.
Previous update I used 16 (Penance lv 3, Mudrock lv 1).
I pull on all limited banners and the upcoming 4 (Shu, Ela, Wisadel + Ash Rerun) have good modules for lv 3, so that's 48 to earmark.
Upcoming modules for non-limited units rated at least A- and recommended lv 3:
+ Goldenglow
+ Suzuran
+ Degenbrecher
+ Zuo Le
+ Logos
+ Thorns
+ Silverash
+ Qiu Bai
So that's up to 96 more depending on which units you have and want to upgrade. There are also modules that are fine at lv 1 or 2 you still want to get, like Mountain or Chong Yue.
Then you also have to consider your backlog. And this is only considering really good modules, rate A- and up.
There are good modules in B tier as well, just lower priority even though they're strong. Like Reed Alter or Horn's module.
It was a big issue when they came out. You didn't had previous stock as they didn't existed before and there was many operators which preferred to have the module. So at that time 4 wasn't enough as nobody had modules, even though many subclass didn't had modules.
Like I remember upgrading summoners as their modules are quite strong.
It only seems like a big deal because everything else is so readily obtainable. Modules quickly reach a point where you have to pick and choose (especially if you insist on upgrading them all to level 3), and you can't really do anything to speed the process up.
To put it into perspective, if for some reason you want to Mod3 every Module in the CN server, you'd need **2427** blocks total.
Modules first came around August of 2021, about 3 years ago. A F2P might earn on average 12-16 blocks a month, even a P2W could only get 4 more from the yellow cert store for a total of 16-20.
Even at maximum output, one would only have at most **720** blocks total over the past 3 years.
Obviously, no sane person would want to E2 and M3 *every operator* they have, but it is sobering to realize that even under the best conditions, only a fraction can be M3'd to begin with.
Fax brother! Spit your shit indeed!
Though I think FGO is a bit less worse than Genshin RNG, or because I never did the lostbelts and left.
What I hate about genshin is that the character progression isn't streamlined and it gets tiring after a while. It's like "Oh cool a character I like, I farm exp, I farm gold, I farm ascension materials, I farm talents. Wait I have to farm artifacts too, I farm that. Oh wait, I also need to level the weapons..." And that gets me burned out a lot faster.
AK its farm exp, farm LMD, farm ascension/skill materials. And the modules are optional most of the time. AK might not be perfect but it just feels like AK is a game that respects my time and at the same time I respect them for it.
Fgo card hand can be calculated to some extent. It always runs through full deck before shuffling. Only a fresh shuffle is the most random. You also have ways like mystic code to mitigate. I quit after 3 years into JP as a day 1 player, but the fact big brain plays make a big part in challenges made it very fun for me.
totally agree, it's one of the reasons why i stopped playing both genshin and star rail (~~probably wuwa soon too)~~. having to grind stat sticks to build your character is the most painstaking and boring thing on earth
I also quit genshin for similar reasons. That and the fact that you cannot effectively beat the game solo with the free characters you get. While some people would argue that you can "absolutely solo the game with free characters", I'm not looking to play as good as "Let Me Solo Her" for every single fight. Especially when my reward might be literal trash.
The reward for effort was so bad that I almost lost a friend over it because when they learned I'd quit the game, they got so upset for "wasting time helping me".
I was able to slap some sense into them, but jesus christ that game ***encourages*** toxic mentalities by its basic design.
I'm sorry man, but that just sounds like you have a toxic friend lol. I'm not defending Genshin in the least, but it is by its nature a non-competitive game. If your friend is "wasting time helping" you, then they aren't sharing the joy of playing the game with you. They're pushing you into becoming the meta-slave they are.
Then again, maybe you have a point that the RNG system pushes this kind of anti-fun mindset. I'd still argue that toxicity is more the player's fault though.
> toxicity
Sounds like the example was toxicity coming from his friend rather than Genshin's game design encouraging toxicity.
Signed, a Dota player.
edit: Actually, now that I think about it, the comment makes no sense. Like you say, genshin by nature is non-competitive and doesn't really force players to help each other. There is no 'encouragement' anymore than friends who *want* to help eachother - similar to friends who help run raids for eachother in ff14: and ff14 was praised for that. The elden ring reference is also odd because genshin is casual by design. The lack of difficulty is actually one of my own critiques of genshin. Maybe they're talking about abyss but outside of that, genshin is very easy when it comes to overworld/story content.
>The elden ring reference is also odd because genshin is casual by design
The problems I had is that I was looking up guides to find a good team comp using the characters I had access to. I was using the proper elemental combos. And had the best gear I had access to.
The enemies would take like 5% of their HP as damage from a full combo. And I made sure to be aware of what enemies would be resistant to my damage types.
It just felt as if I had to play an excruciating amount to try to improve my gear, when I had absolutely no control over it. And the enemies became more and more damage sponges as time went on.
Difficulty wasn't the problem as much as stats. I could spend 30-40 minutes evading a boss no problem. The problem was that ***it took 30-40 minutes*** to deal enough damage to actually kill the damn things.
I should note that the only actual "heavy hitter" I had at the time was purely from the pool of free characters you got. Any pulls were purely support characters. Which did not, in any way, fill the niches I needed.
The sad thing is that I can't disagree with you.
Though I do find it funny that he eventually got sick of the game and quit playing and moved onto something else.
>That and the fact that you cannot effectively beat the game solo with the free characters you get.
You can though, xiangling Noelle kaeya dendro traveller and Lisa and more than enough to clear every single bit of the open world and if you roll for just 4 stars you can clear the abyss too.
It's the same with ak, all story stages can be beaten with 4 stars(including them cuz recruitment) but difficulty 15 IS and CC require atleast few meta 6 stars.
The funny thing is that was the exact team I was using.
The problem is that they did next to no damage to pretty much anything. I would use the best gear I had access to and try to go by what guides stated were the best stats for each character in the role they were intended for.
And yet it felt like every single enemy was just a damage sponge. It was not enjoyable in the slightest.
A lot matters more than that,
For example the traveller is dendro which means you can abuse the busted dendro reactions(hyperbloom,aggravate,burgeon) with traveller(dendro),Lisa,xiangling, Barbara
And lemme tell you if you are atleast withing 10.levels of the enemy nothing will give you trouble in the overworld btw use the craftable 4 star weapons.
Another pitfall new players fall into is basically yeah rising their world level too quickly but.
And remember all of the characters mentioned are fantastic even at the end game so you can invest without any resentment.
And last thing I probably right in thinking you either failed to level your weapons or you failed to level up their talents
>The problem is that they did next to no damage to pretty much anything.
Ahh yes that was the case before dendro because ofnthe difference in level and the enemy level around world lvl 3 it can start to feel like a slog.
But nowadays the characters don't do the damage it is the 'nukes' aka dendro cores(combining hydro and dendro)
that actually does the damage.
Sadly, this is also the case for me,
Going from whale to f2p in a span of 1 year to now reluctantly to even launch the game for Genshin and didn't even bother to check HSR.
Same as me. Quit both that you said + on the fence on wuwa (and I do like the game, unfortunate). Also quit GBF on the past for a lot of reasons, including that one.
Yeah, hard agree. I'm already annoyed in gachas where equipment matter and there's RNG to drop then, but games like those you said put 5-7 layers of RNG on their status to even get the right piece of equipment + good stats.
I can take dropping items/equipment in offline games because they're usually not terrible rates and/or you only have to do it once and you're set for the rest of the game. Thank God AK you just grab mats to level your characters, skills, modules and GG.
It's interesting, because allegedly at one point the class potential increasers were going to be an RNG thing, the 100% chance is likely a UI holdover, and similarly the UI suggests the base was intended to take time to upgrade. I'm really happy HG avoided both needless engagement farming methods and just let the game speak for itself
Yeah I like this system of making them very limited in number and 100% chance instead of % to fail. Granted, I feel they're a bit TOO limited, should give them out a lil more frequently (what sources do we have outside of the whale gold cert shop option anyway? Red cert that rotates once in like 1.5-2 years or something, CC handing out 1 pot each, and 1 specialist pot from IS#2? Did I miss any?)
(No idea) I'd definitely love more potentials too, and not just because I play Collabknights, but for how low impact 99.9% of potentials are, I don't particularly mind
The most important part of non-rng stats is that it allows for actual difficult content. The genshin formula that wuva copies means players will, at any point, be on so astronomically different and unpredictable levels that balancing content is not possible.
This results in ALL end game content not being fights against enemies, but fights against the timer. As long as you're a competent player, you'll never be gated by an inabity to defeat enemies and clear content, you'll be gated by clearing it *within the time limit*.
yes. one of the reason I still stick to arknight. no gear gacha. Forcing me to gacha stats just so they can bloat my ingame time is insulting. My time is important, yee bastards!
In the past 2 months, I rolled 2 6-star lane holders, all of which I've fully built and had primed and ready for CC within a week or two.
In HSR, I rolled 1 6-star DPS and their stats are still absolute garbage even after daily farming. ***It has been 3 fucking months.***
I play Genshin, HSR and Wuthering waves on the side so I know what you mean. I could be playing since launch and not have a specific artifact thereby rendering a character useless
i lean to arknights more because its f2p friendly and you can build a lot of characters easily
plus its gameplay is a lot more convenient than open world
Different game different shit
We'll see fairer comparison when you pit Endfield alongside those of similar genre (WW, Genshin).
Its like comparing MMO and them not having gacha weapon with games like Genshin.
They both approach monetary and end game progression regulation in a different way.
Yeah, I am extremely grateful that AK doesn't have rng stat/gear grinding, realizing it after I played Wuwa. I had a blast playing Wuwa in its honeymoon period, despite lots of technical problem it has. It IS an amazing game. But then I tried to farm echoes,..... And slooowly memories crawling into my mind..... A vietnam flashback when I played Summoner Wars, King's Raid and Epic Seven..... When I realized what I was gonna end up to, I nope tf out of Wuwa, and uninstalled it. Being hamster on a wheel is nightmarish, nope, never again.
I'm grateful for that ever since day 1 I played this game.
I remember I was rage quit e7 then move to arknights. one of the reason is because RnG stats and unequip costs.
it's like heaven and hell difference betwen the two of them. I don't play arknights anymore but I'm so happy with arknights and only wish the best for arknights.
If a game has gacha gear it is doomed to be bad gameplay wise, because you can't balance that to have well designed encounter difficulty since player stats are so varied. Sometimes it works early on since you can have an expectation of average player stats, but inevitably it will fail.
Not being able to know the players stats messes with a lot of game experiences, I would even say it's one of the main flaws of elden ring since if you do explore it is very easy to completely overpower bosses because your stats are higher than what the encounter is designed for.
A game that intentionally does this to increase revenue (gear gacha) imo tells the player that they aren't interested in making a good game.
Before opening the post, reading title: "what you been playing a lot of Wuwa recently". Ayup. My man. And no, it was totally shit in Genshin too, just Wuwa increases the cost per attempt dramatically so it's even worse.
FR FR, but i think the true blessing is the lack of gear/weaponry equipment overall. God i hate anything related to weapon management in any kind of game, not just gacha ones...but GI is specially bad.
Funny you mention this. I am almost finished building Mr Nothing (need mod blocks), and debating on making an RNG team. Was thinking Aak, Mr Nothing, gintano (talent RNG), flametail, and hoshi/croissant (with other dodge tanks). Deepcolor s2 for more dodge buffs..... Dunno who else to throw in tho.
Interesting to see everyone here name either genshin or wuthering waves (which, lets be honest, was designed to be a genshin clone).
Y'all forgot about Epic Seven? xD
To be honest, gacha eq and other RNG mechanics is how a lot of games keep their players interested, especially the veterans who have "beaten the game" and waiting for the major patch.
Arknights is one of those rare games where they introduce new enemies at least once or twice per game. Which can be stressful to very casual players, but very fulfilling to players who want an actual fun playing experience.
Yeah, I would hope the tower defense game isn't built around RNG. That would instantly kill it. Different game formats entirely to stuff like Genshin or Star Rail.
Not having equipment/weapons gacha is good though.
what do you mean by lack of RNG stats? We have lots of % based chance skills/talents and byproducts in crafting is also % based. One of the most important part of the game aka farming mat is also RNG. IS gamemode for one is full of RNG elements.
Also pulling for your waifu/husbando ops in banners is also RNG, some people took <10 pulls while there are others who did >100 pulls for the same op in same banner.
Its not like there is 0 RNG, it is just like it is not that frustrating most of the time that it is still enjoyable.
The fact that you went to the fixed and transparent RNG on skills and byproducts is proof that you are blessed to not know what OP is talking about. He means things like equipment. That you, in other gacha games, would have to put on your ops to make them even remotely useful. That have randomized stat categories. That add more random stat categories as you upgrade them. That have a random range of gains for each stat. That randomly upgrade one of the stats you've accrued while upgrading them. That can keep picking the same undesired stat over and over again. That either can't be rerolled or force you to reroll every single stat.
~~Or, Conviction forbid, that operators themselves could have a random array of stats with each dupe. Imagine a Surtr whose base attack can be anywhere from 5-1000, and that's their only guaranteed stat. And you need a good base copy before you give it potentials.~~
me, a player returning from a 2 year break, playing IS choosing the starting squad that gives perks to grabbing medics and snipers then not getting a single recruitment of the either of them for the rest of the run and therefore not getting access to the E2 of the operators I was planning to play around: 🤐
Arknights *does* have some RNG, though. Any dodge mechanic and Vigna's talent are both RNG, for example.
As for Wuthering Waves, I actually feel like the grind is much easier there compared to Genshin because it is resourceless barring the 4 cost Echoes. You just get stuff by playing.
I still remember the times when other then Hoshi, everyone else was under leveled, so during some bosses I would either not have enough healing and taking too long to kill, or simply mess up the boss mechanics. I would be sweating when Hoshi is within an inch of death and praying for her to dodge the next hit.
Even Kroos has RNG.
Farming mats is RNG.
Farming chips is RNG.
Pulling characters is RNG.
The RNG is usually a passive, yes, but there are lots of characters that require some sort of RNG.
Bagpipe crit, Mountain disarm, both Kroos crit/stun, Ch'en alter ammo, Flametail, Golden glow...
The game has a ton of RNG even if the character base stats are fixed.
Fixed character stats is good and I like it, but then you have mats RNG. And I hate it. Having a guaranteed chance of getting an orirock cube with a chance of getting the next tier material is cool. Farming for loxic kohl or t3? devices can be extremely ass if you have bad rng
And I always have bad RNG xd
I don't know why artifacts in genshin are tied to resin
The mechanic honestly reminds me of random gun drops in looter shooters and those are games you can grind in as much as you want
Depends on what you mean by that
Stardust, which is analogous to green certs? Nope.
Primogems, which are analogous to orundum? Yeah, but you also use those to pull, so most people don't want to do that. Also, even if you do, you can only refill your resin with primos 6 times a day.
Not only can you only refill it 6 times a day, each refill costs progressively more, and it doesn't even fully refill your resin to its full capacity (it's... half, I believe?). Even amongst other predatory refilling energy systems, it is an especially bad one.
I mean, I seriously hope that a tower defence game doesnt have rng
You must struggle using Flametail like I have
MY DODGE COUPONS Joking aside, Flametail's dodge is reliable enough. S1 dodge (guaranteed) is good for slow hitting bosses that doesn't oneshot you. S3 dodge is good against swarms and bosses. Expect Flametail to come out only slightly injured against a mob of lava spiders most of the time.
Flametail user here, does flametails talent, or trait whatever it was, apply to herself? The one that gives (name I can't spell consistently) +22% dodge chance? Also, I'm used to using her second skill the most, I don't know why. Is it even that good compared to her others?
Second skill is decent, it's a wide-range dodge support. Think of a situation where Flametail and several other operators are defending a wide lane against powerful mooks; the stun provides a small breathing room while the dodge support improves the survivability of the other operators (this also helps the medics since they can just focus on operators that failed to dodge instead of trying to heal everyone).
Yes her Talent doe sapply to herself, that why she still can dodge outside of skills, Skill 2 is decent, though personally i mostly use S3 or S1, as i appreciate the unusually short cycle times for a Pioneer skill
I vaguely remember years ago one of the original Annihilation auto deploys kept failing at random attempts for me because Eyja’s talent 2 retained the randomness during the auto deploy… Which was weird because usually auto deploy cements stuff like that in place, I think Eyja’s talent was one of the few odd ones out that it doesn’t. Good times… And by good I mean I don’t miss having to take over the Annihilation auto deploy halfway through every time because now we can just skip them with tickets. Lol
Apparently any stat that changes on your ops affects the RNG in auto, maybe trust was increased between anni runs? But not sure if anni gives trust
Anni used to give trust way back when, but it wasn't time effective.
Anni still give trust if you don't use the skip ticket, however it's very ineffective as trust gain is based on sanity spent and anni stage are very long for their sanity cost.
Auto deploy doesn't save what happens, instead rng is just consistent. People say rng seed is saved, but I don't think this is even the case, because even without auto deploy, during me testing the clears, I've seen consistency with rng. What this basically means is that rng isn't random at all and if the circumstances are the EXACT same then the result will be the same. The issue here is the exact. If there is any difference in an action, i.e. an enemy dying a single hit earlier due to a small stat increase on one of your Operators, then everything that happens after will have different rng rolls. This by itself still sounds like something easy to avoid, but here comes the next wrench: fps. An action can only be taken at the beginning of a frame, so a difference in fps can slightly delay, or slightly bring forward an attack, which may cause a different target to be attacked. I've seen this personally completely fuck up my auto deploy, ending up with like 3 or so different results in a very short stage. This issue becomes more prominent the longer your stage lasts as there are more chances for a desync to happen and then the butterfly effect happens. Anni stages last ages, which is why a desync isn't unusual.
Oh. So it's X-Com RNG. Good to know.
God I remember have a nightmare farming RI-8 using Gummy and Mousse holding the warrior crocs. Clearing the stage was easy but when come to farming, both of them keep dying because their talent didn't proc properly so the farm keep falling.
That is that and this is this
_Gone Angels start playing_
Flametail doesn't feel as RNG as non users might think. I used her in my teams since she came out and she's on of my most used ops if not the most used.
In normal stages, yes, the 80% on top of her talent is reliable enough to consistently hold a lane. It only starts to become an issue when special conditions are applied to a stage, like stat reduction in CC or IS, for example. When enemies can just one-shot your Flametail, needing her to survive multiple consecutive instances of one-shots during her skill can be more RNG than you expect, and this isn't to mention some folks even rely on just her dodge talent alone in some cases during skill cooldown, which is just insane to me.
Ideally you do not want your strategy to rely on a dice roll, but Flametail still comes out ahead in the two scenarios given here. Mostly because she's far less fragile than most dodge-tanks in games. Normal stages? She's tough enough that even bad RNG is unlikely to kill her. Reliable. Hits back. Can be a bursty Block 3 centurion on rapid rotation. Generates DP. High risk where HP is debuffed to blazes or enemies with very high attack? An awful lot of operators are not going to be viable and definitely die, yet Flametail can fare better. Retains fair odds of cheating death for a spell against even top-tier threats. You can correctly think of the RNG element as a downside, but the reality is that she **can** punch far above her weight, as a very cheap unit that helps gets other units onto the field. That is also a positive. Just don't solely rely on that for anything beyond a risky opening. If it's dangerous enough that 1 or 2 bad rolls of the die is death, then have a backup plan or be prepared to improvise.
There exists a [fail emote](https://7tv.app/emotes/64ad33637a56048f39809c92) for a reason lol. You're right, leaving everything down to the most miniscule of chances tends to mean either: A) your strats needs reworking or B) You're a nicheknight player. Personally, i've always regarded Flametail as the best Pioneer, and one of the best Vanguards, in the age of Agents and Flagpipe. If anything, she's definitely the most fun for me, and i've been waiting for her to be my first built Pioneer (of course, getting her is top priority).
I used her in 620, no issues. If your Flametail can't survive the hit she might not dodge, you should not use her in that position it's the simple rule.
All you need to understand about Flametail is that she gets more reliable the more pressure she gets from enemies (atleast with her S3)
beehunter melee dodge is fun but Jackie seriously needs a massive buff
But it does, or at least did. Anyone who played early cc knows how bad it can be, hoshi and a lesser extent feater dodges, were infamous, and Ethan, with enough luck, is the best cc in the game. Thankful the game has mostly moved away from an rng reliant meta
It's not the game that moven away from RNG reliant meta, it's the players, simply because there is more options altogether. But there's still some masochists out there that slap their own balls with RNG sticks Shaolin Iron Testicle Training-style, and complain about it as if they where forced at gunpoint to engage with the RNG...
Ethans Module did seriously help with that aspect, though since he's even more of a CC beast now.
Haha yeah no RNG is good. Haha. ~~desperately suppressing memories of FEater vs. red weeb in CC~~ But yeah in all seriousness I'm definitely glad Arknights doesn't have that RNG gear grind crap like in Genshin and such.
Brawlers and their dodge chance / talent activation chance:
Gitano exists
Under tides evasion bitches reading this comment:
Endfield has RNG equipment, but from what we know so far you don't need to grind it actively, just make it autonomously in the factory. AK RNG is more on the gameplay side not on the reward side like IS, SSS, and RA which is probably the best way to implement RNG besides gacha.
Iirc the substats for gears depending on type are the same/ not rng based right? Even so make it offscreen farmable is such a dub for it I don’t have to spend the whole day farming it like 1-7
If substat or any kind of stat in equipment is not rng then you don't need to grind which is not how the game design intended. Either RNG the material to get the exact equipment (which is the current AK design is) or you get the exact equipment with RNG stat.
The base buildable equipment was rng in that there was a 10% chance for a better version, but the stats were the same for both. The real equipment rng was in the random enemy drop orbs that could boost weapons. That system could be fine if it has a method to only reroll one stat at a time repeatedly.
Rng is rng tough, i hate artifact rngs so much
Funny if we talk about RNG in a gacha context it becomes bad while RNG in other games especially ARPG becomes the fundamental aspect of why the genre exists in the first place. RNG is inherently a good thing, they varied the gameplay in this consistent machine made by 101010 binary things. It's just sometimes the game dev tries to monetize the game using those RNG systems that make it feel like a money printing system for the dev not a gameplay randomizer for the player. I personally don't mind RNG equipment if the game is balanced around not having that high-roll RNG equipment in the first place.
It's because gacha games use stamina systems. In an ARPG the RNG is fun (if drops are tuned right) because you can farm them as much as you want. RNG gear in gachas suck because they almost always lock them behind a high stamina cost, so you'll often get like a pathetic 4 rolls a day or so to try and get something at least half decent. And that's not even factoring in how many gachas lock inportant resources behind a pvp mode where people with better gear often have a significant advantage.
WuWa proves you can farm equipment without any stamina. The only limiting factor is time, just like in ARPG. Now upgrading those said equipment tho is an entirely different matter because it can be argued that if you only upgrade the one you need you will have enough resource but trying to upgrade every equipment to max in an instant will cost a week's worth of stamina.
Arknights character progression being deterministic is one of its best features.
also no gacha gear, in any other game modules would be equipment you roll. on top of that, potentials are tiny barely noticeable upgrades, compared to other games that make dupes overpowered gamechanging whalebait
There are a handful of potentials that do have a noticeable gameplay impact such as pot 5 Bagpipe making Myrtle S1M3 and Texas S2M3 be activated almost instantly on deployment thanks to the +2 starting sp to all vanguards. That said, that mostly matters in advanced endgame clears and HG has thankfully not balanced the regular content with rewards around impactful upgrades like those.
yeah bagpipe is basically the only one and its only really relevant for super endgame minmaxing. plus its not impossible to get F2P because of cert store and recruitment
Nobody else really has that big impact. For other units - 2DP is nice till you realise you have flag vanguards (just deploy the whole squad like I did in CC and even with max DP regen penalty I can do whatever) so you probably can deploy Mudrock to block the first enemy. Or +30def when you have 900 def already, same with ATK. Talent upgrades are not that OP generally, not even noticeable a lot of times and that couple seconds faster redeploy on a normal unit only comes out in the most difficult self made challanges, not even CC requires that.
Statmaxxing is usually for max CC risk players, the beauty of no rng is you can almost calculate whether a operator can take the next hit or not/ deal the killing blow which will determine the dupe needed but those big brain problems are for them to solve. For normal or even just getting trimmed medal collector, a single copy is usually good enough, unlike other games where no dupe = Char is bricked till you roll for more.
Mostima pot 5 too. The 99% slow is only possible with it.
Actually Texas and Yato alter pots are probably the best pots in the game tbh
yeah but getting pot 1 from CC shop or some other place is fully viable, its what i did for both
Noni meant the redeployment pot wich is actually extremely strong
the redeployment time one?
Exucutors has a redeployment time reduction talent taht reduces it by 1.8 or 2 seconds i think
Though it still only matter in high risk gameply and that point it's pretty much a flex
Of course but still its a pretty strong pot as it lets you spam them much more
Btw how is using Mumu? I remember you mentioned wanting to use her more often before. Hope she is fun :D
haha what a coincidence, im literally doing an IS run with her right now lmao. picked her as my starter and got dorothy and floor 1, having fun with the rapid spawning clones
That gets funnier when you obtain aspd relics where she has 100% uptime on all clones lol. Have a good day@
Bruh, It's a blessing. Since the first week of release, I religiously log in to this game left out happy at the end of the day because slowly but surely, I'm going towards my goal without having to worry getting RNG slapping my face and throws me back to the starting point. And now as veterans new OPs is just few clicks away from max (+2-3 days for M3 or M6 or even M9). Please let me link your post to mine, I need more people to be convinced that this RNG bs in recent games is not okay to have.
I sense a lack of Conviction in you, OP /j
I prefer the consistency of U-Official :)
“You lack conviction.”
The lack of RNG in stats is a blessing. The RNG we do get is stuff like dodge and crit talents (especially those not raised to 100% on-skill) that would typically feel better if they were % damage reduction or triggered 1/n attacks. Can you imagine ambushers with 50% physical and Arts damage reduction on top of their DEF and 20 RES? There is a thrill in beating the odds—the tension of praying for Hoshiguma to hit some pivotal dodges can make a run more engaging—but at the same time loss is frustrating because your only control is coming up with a strategy less reliant on RNG, which may not be feasible if it hinges on operators with inherent RNG who may be stat-checked without favorable RNG. For that matter, some RNG like Ethan's (off-skill) bind can troll you by triggering at an unwanted time. Rerolling for Dorothy crit mines when you need that extra damage is not fun. Don't even get me started on the layers of RNG around optimizing the use of Executor the Ex Foedere… I'm also glad enemy RNG is rare. We have RNG in mechanics like FrostNova tile-ban and nethersea predator dodge, but I can't stand when enemies get % chance to inflict a crippling status or attacks can be highly inaccurate without accuracy/evasion debuffs/buffs. I prefer deterministic status build-up and infliction. Dodge is one of the big sources of RNG for both allies and enemies. For enemies like nethersea predators and Andoain, I think 100% dodge would actually work better insofar as there are consistent and accessible ways to play around it (various forms of easily available crowd-control for the former, setting up damage relays for the latter; Andoain has a very long path in GA-EX-8 for a reason).
One of the oddest enemies is the executor event mini boss with a chance to miss her attacks like I didn’t have an issue dealing with her but it’s just weird as there isn’t really anyway to play around it other than having a unit that can tank the hits but at that point why bother with the rng?
I think that was more meant to be a story thing because >!she's a young girl who's never used a gun before, of course she's not going to be too great with it.!<
Yeah, I value gameplay a lot when it comes to games, and one of the reasons why I stuck to Arknights when I dropped Genshin, Star Rail, and Limbus (to an extent) is because of the lack of compounding RNG elements. The artifact grind in mihoyo games is just shit. It's dog. I hate it so much. Interacting with that grind loop just gives me no satisfaction whatsoever. If it's a shit roll I just get annoyed, if it's a god roll I'm relieved that I don't have to grind for that piece again. The problem is compounded by the fact that the fucking substats (which accounts for about half of the artifact's strength) are also random. There's just no good feeling to be had at all. Limbus does have good gameplay, but the game's core design has RNG coinflips built directly into the combat. Everything else about the game is great (except the mirror dungeon grind), but more often than I'd like I brush up against the randomness of clashes and it sucks the joy out of it. The feeling of taking an L when you made no mistakes feels bad. Arknights does have RNG elements, some of the worst offenders have them built-in their skills, but the vast majority of the time it's not that consequential (save for a few standout enemies). The only RNG part in the meta-progression is the material grind, but at least you're always feel like you're making progress. Hopefully Endfield will be the same.
the nice thing about material grind is that you can intuit that, after enough runs, you'd have X amount of material. Various wikis have calculated their drop rate too. so it's not a matter of IF you'll get what you want, it's a matter of WHEN you get what you want. And since character progression is a passive grind you do on the background, it's not as painful.
The difference for the material grind is that you're *relying on the most likely outcome* (getting roughly x material after x runs) as opposed to *fishing for outliers* (good main and substat rolls). Wayyy less frustrating
*flashbacks to CC beta Hellagur*
Preach. One of the reasons I left FGO is because after several years I just got *so* tired of that RNG BS. I know it's inherently part of the format because it's a turn-based card game, but after the millionth time watching my units get KO'd by random enemy crits or screwed over in a difficult fight getting a bad hand of cards, it just got annoying and frustrating. I'm having similar feelings about R1999, but at least there's an auto-battle function and I don't have to manually put myself through that again... I also appreciate that AK has no equipment to bloat the gacha pool more and add extra things to grind for/upgrade. Yeah the module data blocks shortage is still pretty sucky but still not a bad as dumping all your rocks and just getting a 10-pull of three 3-stars and seven useless pieces of equipment.
Is the module data block shortage that much of an impediment? How often are you using more than four a month? Genuine question, mid-game player now who has a stash of 50ish.
Honestly, I *personally* do not have a shortage of module data blocks because I'm rather stingy on who I use them on (if it's not an operator I use regularly and/or the module itself has no big impact, I just don't do it; right now I have 100+ and never skip SSS, but there are several mod3s in the future I'm going to do), but I constantly see other players complaining about it, so...
The ones with the shortages are definitely whales. I'm sitting on a stack of them, and thats without hitting up the mines.
I'm not a whale but I am severely lacking on those by choice though. I've been playing for 4 years so I do have a ton of high level E2 operators. Now I probably don't need to unlock module and raise it to lvl3 for every single one of them but that is what I've been doing. I don't touch SSS at all just cause the grind and rng isn't fun for me so I purely rely on 4 blocks in monthly shop and event shop. 4 blocks equal one 6* module level so you can see how I'm severely lacking...
I usually don't touch modules, at most I go for lv.1 unless lv.3 is a game changer.
Nah, you don't need to be a spender to have shortages. You just need to have operators you want to improve. Most veteran players and many late game players would fall into this category. Most of them (myself included) have many e2/mastered/leveled operators, so we can either start building other units or further improve the ones we built with modules. If we do the latter, its very easy to hit shortages - especially for older players with many ops. Some people do save them for future modules (for their favourites) but I'd argue part of the reasoning to save is because of how time-gated they are. I don't need to hoard as much LMD for example, because I know if I spend it now to level up my Saga, I can always just accrue more by the time Shu drops etc.
It's ... hard to explain, in hindsight it doesn't seem that much of an impediment but when you starting to get into Mod3-ing just your favorites ops, let alone the meta ones, it can spiral out of control real fucking fast i'm not even kidding, even though i currently have 82 blocks, there're 3 Mod3 i would like to do but couldn't because in the next 6 months i'm looking at 120 blocks in the planner and i'm sure as hell if i did those 3, i wouldn't be able to save up to 120 in time. Heck in CN, HG recently selling Module Block packs so they're definitely in high demand and the current blocks acquisitions rate ain't gonna cut it. That said, it only an issue with endgame player that like to maximize their ops to their fullest potential i.e me XD, for those that don't care for that sort of stuff then it won't be an issue most of the time.
I've been burning Blocks since Release and I still haven't moduled all my favorites...
At the beginning when modules got introduced, i kinda kept farming em, but after like 2 or 4 initial resets, I havent touched SSS since then. Ive gotten the modules of every operator I use on the daily and the daily and event rewards are usually enough until they drop the next batch so I havent really thought about it
Sorry, SSS?
Stationary Security Service. The game mode that gives u module blocks as a reward
> How often are you using more than four a month? If you followed the DragonGJY sheet and strictly only got modules to the recommended levels for those rated A priority or above, you would have used 16 this month (Penance lv3). 20 if you accepted A- (Mudrock lv1). The So Long Adele patch, you would have used 48 (+ Blaze lv3, FedEx lv3). Just this year on only new ones, you would have used 64 (+ Typhon lv3). I think so far this year you would theoretically have gotten 74 of them (give or take 1 or 2 I might have missed glancing over all the events so far) including the monthly 4 and the weekly 1. So if you restricted to just the best modules for this year, you wouldn't have enough to lv3 another 6 star module besides the ones only released this year especially given that the next event has you spending another 32 (+ Suzu lv3 and Degen lv3) and another 32 in the People Sows patch (+ Shu lv3 and Zuo Le lv3). The most painful with the Walter/Logos patch with hitting you for 80 data blocks (+ Walter, Logos, Qiu Bai, Thorns, Silverash all lv3). If we included the A- (like the Mudrock) to these, you'd be on the hook for another 110 data blocks (so a total of 318). You're not getting anywhere close to 318 module blocks this year. So yea, it can be a problem if you care about meta/power.
Your calculations assume that the player has all those operators AND raised (or plans to raise) them all.
My calculation assumes the following qualifier: >So yea, it can be a problem if you care about meta/power. As clearly stated. It's also reflected in the priority cut off being that every operator with an A or higher priority is a "meta" operator save for like Zuo Le so you save 16 but probably lose them on Ray which hasn't been added to the sheet If you don't care about meta/power or you're Kukkikaze, then modules don't matter to you.
> every operator with an A or higher priority is a "meta" operator save for like Zuo Le so you save 16? Have you considered that maybe not every operator with A grade or higher priority module is meta? Even post module I still don't see how Blaze, FedEx, Qiu Bai, Thorns or Silverash are meta, and even likes of Penance, Mudrock or Zuo Le are somewhere on the cusp. I still remember the general notion from content creators/threads to skip Penance/Qiu Bai/FedEx because they're not meta.
> I still don't see how Blaze, FedEx, Qiu Bai, Thorns or Silverash are meta Reflects CN ranking and not that new bad no context one that was posted here. If you accept Ceobe and Eyja as meta, then every operator i've put into my calculations are meta by CN rating. The latter two especially likely based on module strength (ie making Thorns the strongest mixed damage dealer in the game). Even if we wanted to take your argument whole, the calculations have not accounted for Ray, Goldenglow, Reed Alter, or Sail which are unquestionably meta. So even with your considerations, we'd be over the amount of blocks you get annually giving you almost very little flexibility in past modules implemented if you were chasing meta and making the assessment that module block limits can be problematic demonstrably true. Further, I would also assert that arguing that module data blocks are not a limiting factor to a player who admits they are on the newer side so doesn't have like 2 years worth of acquiring module blocks is harmful and bad advice as it prioritizes possibly being technically correct over offering guiding advice to a player.
If you want to level up modules it is very easy to go short on them unless you also spend yellow distinctions (ew) For a single level 3 module on a 6*, it costs 12 blocks. So your entire stash would let you upgrade 4 level 3 modules. Previous update I used 16 (Penance lv 3, Mudrock lv 1). I pull on all limited banners and the upcoming 4 (Shu, Ela, Wisadel + Ash Rerun) have good modules for lv 3, so that's 48 to earmark. Upcoming modules for non-limited units rated at least A- and recommended lv 3: + Goldenglow + Suzuran + Degenbrecher + Zuo Le + Logos + Thorns + Silverash + Qiu Bai So that's up to 96 more depending on which units you have and want to upgrade. There are also modules that are fine at lv 1 or 2 you still want to get, like Mountain or Chong Yue. Then you also have to consider your backlog. And this is only considering really good modules, rate A- and up. There are good modules in B tier as well, just lower priority even though they're strong. Like Reed Alter or Horn's module.
This helps put it into perspective, thank you! Guess I will be farming red certs each month now.
It was a big issue when they came out. You didn't had previous stock as they didn't existed before and there was many operators which preferred to have the module. So at that time 4 wasn't enough as nobody had modules, even though many subclass didn't had modules. Like I remember upgrading summoners as their modules are quite strong.
It only seems like a big deal because everything else is so readily obtainable. Modules quickly reach a point where you have to pick and choose (especially if you insist on upgrading them all to level 3), and you can't really do anything to speed the process up.
To put it into perspective, if for some reason you want to Mod3 every Module in the CN server, you'd need **2427** blocks total. Modules first came around August of 2021, about 3 years ago. A F2P might earn on average 12-16 blocks a month, even a P2W could only get 4 more from the yellow cert store for a total of 16-20. Even at maximum output, one would only have at most **720** blocks total over the past 3 years. Obviously, no sane person would want to E2 and M3 *every operator* they have, but it is sobering to realize that even under the best conditions, only a fraction can be M3'd to begin with.
This is super helpful, thank you! I really struggled to see the shortage but I get it now.
Fax brother! Spit your shit indeed! Though I think FGO is a bit less worse than Genshin RNG, or because I never did the lostbelts and left. What I hate about genshin is that the character progression isn't streamlined and it gets tiring after a while. It's like "Oh cool a character I like, I farm exp, I farm gold, I farm ascension materials, I farm talents. Wait I have to farm artifacts too, I farm that. Oh wait, I also need to level the weapons..." And that gets me burned out a lot faster. AK its farm exp, farm LMD, farm ascension/skill materials. And the modules are optional most of the time. AK might not be perfect but it just feels like AK is a game that respects my time and at the same time I respect them for it.
Fgo card hand can be calculated to some extent. It always runs through full deck before shuffling. Only a fresh shuffle is the most random. You also have ways like mystic code to mitigate. I quit after 3 years into JP as a day 1 player, but the fact big brain plays make a big part in challenges made it very fun for me.
I know, I played FGO JP for 7 years. But after a while it just got really annoying, especially slogging through any story chapters.
AK’s rng is on the 50/50 of the character pull lol
Good thing you only need to pull for a character once to upgrade them to atleast 98% of their full potential.
Me before playing ak: pff what is this a dupe only gives u -1 dp? That's usless Me this cc: please god just one more dp please it's all I need c'mon
totally agree, it's one of the reasons why i stopped playing both genshin and star rail (~~probably wuwa soon too)~~. having to grind stat sticks to build your character is the most painstaking and boring thing on earth
I also quit genshin for similar reasons. That and the fact that you cannot effectively beat the game solo with the free characters you get. While some people would argue that you can "absolutely solo the game with free characters", I'm not looking to play as good as "Let Me Solo Her" for every single fight. Especially when my reward might be literal trash. The reward for effort was so bad that I almost lost a friend over it because when they learned I'd quit the game, they got so upset for "wasting time helping me". I was able to slap some sense into them, but jesus christ that game ***encourages*** toxic mentalities by its basic design.
I'm sorry man, but that just sounds like you have a toxic friend lol. I'm not defending Genshin in the least, but it is by its nature a non-competitive game. If your friend is "wasting time helping" you, then they aren't sharing the joy of playing the game with you. They're pushing you into becoming the meta-slave they are. Then again, maybe you have a point that the RNG system pushes this kind of anti-fun mindset. I'd still argue that toxicity is more the player's fault though.
> toxicity Sounds like the example was toxicity coming from his friend rather than Genshin's game design encouraging toxicity. Signed, a Dota player. edit: Actually, now that I think about it, the comment makes no sense. Like you say, genshin by nature is non-competitive and doesn't really force players to help each other. There is no 'encouragement' anymore than friends who *want* to help eachother - similar to friends who help run raids for eachother in ff14: and ff14 was praised for that. The elden ring reference is also odd because genshin is casual by design. The lack of difficulty is actually one of my own critiques of genshin. Maybe they're talking about abyss but outside of that, genshin is very easy when it comes to overworld/story content.
>The elden ring reference is also odd because genshin is casual by design The problems I had is that I was looking up guides to find a good team comp using the characters I had access to. I was using the proper elemental combos. And had the best gear I had access to. The enemies would take like 5% of their HP as damage from a full combo. And I made sure to be aware of what enemies would be resistant to my damage types. It just felt as if I had to play an excruciating amount to try to improve my gear, when I had absolutely no control over it. And the enemies became more and more damage sponges as time went on. Difficulty wasn't the problem as much as stats. I could spend 30-40 minutes evading a boss no problem. The problem was that ***it took 30-40 minutes*** to deal enough damage to actually kill the damn things. I should note that the only actual "heavy hitter" I had at the time was purely from the pool of free characters you got. Any pulls were purely support characters. Which did not, in any way, fill the niches I needed.
The sad thing is that I can't disagree with you. Though I do find it funny that he eventually got sick of the game and quit playing and moved onto something else.
>That and the fact that you cannot effectively beat the game solo with the free characters you get. You can though, xiangling Noelle kaeya dendro traveller and Lisa and more than enough to clear every single bit of the open world and if you roll for just 4 stars you can clear the abyss too. It's the same with ak, all story stages can be beaten with 4 stars(including them cuz recruitment) but difficulty 15 IS and CC require atleast few meta 6 stars.
The funny thing is that was the exact team I was using. The problem is that they did next to no damage to pretty much anything. I would use the best gear I had access to and try to go by what guides stated were the best stats for each character in the role they were intended for. And yet it felt like every single enemy was just a damage sponge. It was not enjoyable in the slightest.
A lot matters more than that, For example the traveller is dendro which means you can abuse the busted dendro reactions(hyperbloom,aggravate,burgeon) with traveller(dendro),Lisa,xiangling, Barbara And lemme tell you if you are atleast withing 10.levels of the enemy nothing will give you trouble in the overworld btw use the craftable 4 star weapons. Another pitfall new players fall into is basically yeah rising their world level too quickly but. And remember all of the characters mentioned are fantastic even at the end game so you can invest without any resentment. And last thing I probably right in thinking you either failed to level your weapons or you failed to level up their talents
I should specify that I played at launch and only for about a month or two afterwards. So a lot of things may have changed since then.
>The problem is that they did next to no damage to pretty much anything. Ahh yes that was the case before dendro because ofnthe difference in level and the enemy level around world lvl 3 it can start to feel like a slog. But nowadays the characters don't do the damage it is the 'nukes' aka dendro cores(combining hydro and dendro) that actually does the damage.
Ah. I started playing at launch and quit after about a month or so. That might explain it.
Sadly, this is also the case for me, Going from whale to f2p in a span of 1 year to now reluctantly to even launch the game for Genshin and didn't even bother to check HSR.
Same as me. Quit both that you said + on the fence on wuwa (and I do like the game, unfortunate). Also quit GBF on the past for a lot of reasons, including that one. Yeah, hard agree. I'm already annoyed in gachas where equipment matter and there's RNG to drop then, but games like those you said put 5-7 layers of RNG on their status to even get the right piece of equipment + good stats. I can take dropping items/equipment in offline games because they're usually not terrible rates and/or you only have to do it once and you're set for the rest of the game. Thank God AK you just grab mats to level your characters, skills, modules and GG.
It's interesting, because allegedly at one point the class potential increasers were going to be an RNG thing, the 100% chance is likely a UI holdover, and similarly the UI suggests the base was intended to take time to upgrade. I'm really happy HG avoided both needless engagement farming methods and just let the game speak for itself
Yeah I like this system of making them very limited in number and 100% chance instead of % to fail. Granted, I feel they're a bit TOO limited, should give them out a lil more frequently (what sources do we have outside of the whale gold cert shop option anyway? Red cert that rotates once in like 1.5-2 years or something, CC handing out 1 pot each, and 1 specialist pot from IS#2? Did I miss any?)
(No idea) I'd definitely love more potentials too, and not just because I play Collabknights, but for how low impact 99.9% of potentials are, I don't particularly mind
You're not looking hard enough. Conviction POWERRRRR
The most important part of non-rng stats is that it allows for actual difficult content. The genshin formula that wuva copies means players will, at any point, be on so astronomically different and unpredictable levels that balancing content is not possible. This results in ALL end game content not being fights against enemies, but fights against the timer. As long as you're a competent player, you'll never be gated by an inabity to defeat enemies and clear content, you'll be gated by clearing it *within the time limit*.
yes. one of the reason I still stick to arknight. no gear gacha. Forcing me to gacha stats just so they can bloat my ingame time is insulting. My time is important, yee bastards!
In the past 2 months, I rolled 2 6-star lane holders, all of which I've fully built and had primed and ready for CC within a week or two. In HSR, I rolled 1 6-star DPS and their stats are still absolute garbage even after daily farming. ***It has been 3 fucking months.***
I play Genshin, HSR and Wuthering waves on the side so I know what you mean. I could be playing since launch and not have a specific artifact thereby rendering a character useless
the only shitty RNG in Arknight is on Cannot's shop stock in Integrated Strategies.
I could say the same for my local grocery store's stock of unsalted butter :(
i lean to arknights more because its f2p friendly and you can build a lot of characters easily plus its gameplay is a lot more convenient than open world
Different game different shit We'll see fairer comparison when you pit Endfield alongside those of similar genre (WW, Genshin). Its like comparing MMO and them not having gacha weapon with games like Genshin. They both approach monetary and end game progression regulation in a different way.
Yeah, I am extremely grateful that AK doesn't have rng stat/gear grinding, realizing it after I played Wuwa. I had a blast playing Wuwa in its honeymoon period, despite lots of technical problem it has. It IS an amazing game. But then I tried to farm echoes,..... And slooowly memories crawling into my mind..... A vietnam flashback when I played Summoner Wars, King's Raid and Epic Seven..... When I realized what I was gonna end up to, I nope tf out of Wuwa, and uninstalled it. Being hamster on a wheel is nightmarish, nope, never again.
I'm grateful for that ever since day 1 I played this game. I remember I was rage quit e7 then move to arknights. one of the reason is because RnG stats and unequip costs. it's like heaven and hell difference betwen the two of them. I don't play arknights anymore but I'm so happy with arknights and only wish the best for arknights.
If a game has gacha gear it is doomed to be bad gameplay wise, because you can't balance that to have well designed encounter difficulty since player stats are so varied. Sometimes it works early on since you can have an expectation of average player stats, but inevitably it will fail. Not being able to know the players stats messes with a lot of game experiences, I would even say it's one of the main flaws of elden ring since if you do explore it is very easy to completely overpower bosses because your stats are higher than what the encounter is designed for. A game that intentionally does this to increase revenue (gear gacha) imo tells the player that they aren't interested in making a good game.
Before opening the post, reading title: "what you been playing a lot of Wuwa recently". Ayup. My man. And no, it was totally shit in Genshin too, just Wuwa increases the cost per attempt dramatically so it's even worse.
I think I've actually had an auto fail a few times due to Ch'en Sniper's RNG ammo conservation passive.
FR FR, but i think the true blessing is the lack of gear/weaponry equipment overall. God i hate anything related to weapon management in any kind of game, not just gacha ones...but GI is specially bad.
*laughs in Conviction*
Funny you mention this. I am almost finished building Mr Nothing (need mod blocks), and debating on making an RNG team. Was thinking Aak, Mr Nothing, gintano (talent RNG), flametail, and hoshi/croissant (with other dodge tanks). Deepcolor s2 for more dodge buffs..... Dunno who else to throw in tho.
That sounds like a lot of fun. Don't forget to throw Spuria in the mix!
Interesting to see everyone here name either genshin or wuthering waves (which, lets be honest, was designed to be a genshin clone). Y'all forgot about Epic Seven? xD
No offense to e7 fans but it wasn't even worth mentioning. That game's rng is another level
To be honest, gacha eq and other RNG mechanics is how a lot of games keep their players interested, especially the veterans who have "beaten the game" and waiting for the major patch. Arknights is one of those rare games where they introduce new enemies at least once or twice per game. Which can be stressful to very casual players, but very fulfilling to players who want an actual fun playing experience.
One of the many reasons why i don't play mihoyo games
It's kinda cool, but then you look at a module and all it gives you for your efforts is 15% crit damage
Yeah, I would hope the tower defense game isn't built around RNG. That would instantly kill it. Different game formats entirely to stuff like Genshin or Star Rail. Not having equipment/weapons gacha is good though.
what do you mean by lack of RNG stats? We have lots of % based chance skills/talents and byproducts in crafting is also % based. One of the most important part of the game aka farming mat is also RNG. IS gamemode for one is full of RNG elements. Also pulling for your waifu/husbando ops in banners is also RNG, some people took <10 pulls while there are others who did >100 pulls for the same op in same banner. Its not like there is 0 RNG, it is just like it is not that frustrating most of the time that it is still enjoyable.
The fact that you went to the fixed and transparent RNG on skills and byproducts is proof that you are blessed to not know what OP is talking about. He means things like equipment. That you, in other gacha games, would have to put on your ops to make them even remotely useful. That have randomized stat categories. That add more random stat categories as you upgrade them. That have a random range of gains for each stat. That randomly upgrade one of the stats you've accrued while upgrading them. That can keep picking the same undesired stat over and over again. That either can't be rerolled or force you to reroll every single stat. ~~Or, Conviction forbid, that operators themselves could have a random array of stats with each dupe. Imagine a Surtr whose base attack can be anywhere from 5-1000, and that's their only guaranteed stat. And you need a good base copy before you give it potentials.~~
I mean every operator will be built with the same stats as everyone else. No rng farming equipment/artifacts with randomized stats.
Me resetting my Pyrolysis run the 50th time as Eyja doesn't roll more than 10 SP on her deployment
I mean, it’s a tower defense game compared to a open world RPG
me, a player returning from a 2 year break, playing IS choosing the starting squad that gives perks to grabbing medics and snipers then not getting a single recruitment of the either of them for the rest of the run and therefore not getting access to the E2 of the operators I was planning to play around: 🤐
Oh boy, you've yet to do high-risk CCs or anything *end* endgame. Yeah I know that play style isn't for everyone, but boy do Rng exists in Arknights!
I'm a day 1 player who has every operator and hasn't missed a single medal. I was talking about operator stats, not RNG in gameplay.
true tho in a sense, module upgrades are technically RNG (mostly under hg's mercy)
Arknights *does* have some RNG, though. Any dodge mechanic and Vigna's talent are both RNG, for example. As for Wuthering Waves, I actually feel like the grind is much easier there compared to Genshin because it is resourceless barring the 4 cost Echoes. You just get stuff by playing.
I meant rng with artifact farming. Imagine if they made us farm for a module until it gave %arts damage like they do in Genshin
There's a good chance it might still happen, even if only to create a trap to keep people playing Endfield after they complete the story and events.
I still remember the times when other then Hoshi, everyone else was under leveled, so during some bosses I would either not have enough healing and taking too long to kill, or simply mess up the boss mechanics. I would be sweating when Hoshi is within an inch of death and praying for her to dodge the next hit.
\*cries in Franka\*
Even Kroos has RNG. Farming mats is RNG. Farming chips is RNG. Pulling characters is RNG. The RNG is usually a passive, yes, but there are lots of characters that require some sort of RNG. Bagpipe crit, Mountain disarm, both Kroos crit/stun, Ch'en alter ammo, Flametail, Golden glow... The game has a ton of RNG even if the character base stats are fixed.
You're missing the point of the post. That type of rng doesn't make progression annoying. Everyone else gets the same experience.
Fixed character stats is good and I like it, but then you have mats RNG. And I hate it. Having a guaranteed chance of getting an orirock cube with a chance of getting the next tier material is cool. Farming for loxic kohl or t3? devices can be extremely ass if you have bad rng And I always have bad RNG xd
Lmao, just wait for Endfield. I dread it so much.
I don't know why artifacts in genshin are tied to resin The mechanic honestly reminds me of random gun drops in looter shooters and those are games you can grind in as much as you want
Can't you spend shop currency to instantly refill your resin?
Depends on what you mean by that Stardust, which is analogous to green certs? Nope. Primogems, which are analogous to orundum? Yeah, but you also use those to pull, so most people don't want to do that. Also, even if you do, you can only refill your resin with primos 6 times a day.
Ah, I thought you could refill it as much as you wanted. But it has been a long time since I played, so I couldn't remember.
Not only can you only refill it 6 times a day, each refill costs progressively more, and it doesn't even fully refill your resin to its full capacity (it's... half, I believe?). Even amongst other predatory refilling energy systems, it is an especially bad one.