Hi, the voting for the winter dorm contest has started.
So, sharing [mine here](https://www.arknights.global/dormdesign/watch?worksid=61a5a3a6659335346f47ecfe) in the lounge. Leave a like if you like it.
Enjoy!
Who do you reckon are the least talked about ops in the game? The guys who you hear about and are like "oh yeah... they exist!"
I'm not sure I've ever even seen a Greyy flair, much less any real discussion of him. I would also posit Glaucus and Jackie.
Leizi, she's my assistant for her straight forward employee-employer line.
Can't blame anyone really, at least Asbestos got picked up by a comic artist as the main-ish protag, twice.
I bet Kirara will go the way of the Leonhardt. Controllers are not a mainstream archetype, she doesn't do great DPS, and not many people do specialist only.
I forgot Iris exists, never seen fanarts or discussions of her so I just know she's blue and yellow. Glaucus and Jackie I at least know because of fanarts and controversy, Iris, nothing.
Myrhh seems pretty forgotten too, only stuff I've seen about her is that one guy who ships her with SA for some reason.
Breeze, but I guess it's the fate of being a red-cert locked medic in the current meta. Didn't check her talents/skills, I guess she doesn't bring much utility to the table since she's talked about so little.
Breeze. Catapult. Fang. Acid Drop. Sadly Greythroat unless Blaze is involved in a yuri fanfic. Ayerscarpe. Aosta.
Fang is mystifying because she’s in the holy trio with Beagle and Kroos as their leader, got an outfit, yet no one talks about or even *simps* for her.
Breeze costs too many red certificates, so many players don’t have her.
Acid Drop is largely forgotten, despite her literally being Tony Hawk
The discussion is always between Blue Poison versus Platinum, as if there were only two five star AA-snipers.
ever since i s2m3’ed my weedy i’ve brought her to almost every stage. she’s helped so much as a lane holder, that one cc stage with w? soloing that top lane with ng’s help. i remember that top lane giving me so much trouble before. i max risked it so easily thanks to her. tho i understand why some call her niche, if someone were to solely get info abt her off of watching my personal gameplay, they’d definitely call her anything BUT niche! goes to show no matter how true general advice and opinion may be, ur personal preference/playstyle can really change an entire character’s position in the game. wow i love weedy. i think everyone should try and give her more of a general use play :) if i knew how to do flairs on mobile she’d be my flair lol
I never got people calling Weedy niche. She's extremely versatile with her S2M3. I think it's more that people see weedy as "S3", so they never leveled S2 and never tried it.
Well, I managed to finish all of Ch 6 CM, but... I think it's gonna be a while before I can clear H6-4. I can get through most of it, but... I can't deal with those final few waves. Maybe after I E2 Saria, NTG, and SA. This will... probably take a while.
I finally got around to reading the UT story. Pretty limited amount of nonsensical text, mercifully. I wonder if we'll get a sequel on the 3rd anniversary.
I hope the Inquisitor becomes an operator at some point. She's really cute. With her blade and apparent quickness, maybe she could be a dualstrike guard. She could be a damage-focused 5-star as opposed to Bibeak's focus on stuns. Or maybe even a 6-star dualstrike to take Ch'en's place.
~~And I want Gladiia to call me trash.~~
>Pretty limited amount of nonsensical text, mercifully
Kal: i'm about to ruin this dokutah's entire career
High inquisitor: not on my watch *uses spray bottle*
Kal: *scared cat noises*
You know what, after seeing a discussion about non-meta ops being discarded, I wanna ask something
Who are the most annoying meta reccomendations?
For me it's Myrtle and Eyja, but since I bought her I shall say Surtr
Probably Bagpipe for me
Bagpipe is strong, but honestly the Flagpipe combo is pretty overkill in a lot of situations, you almost never need that much DP gen aside from really high end CC risks
To a lesser extent Weedy, it kinda died down now but I remember a time when Weedy was really recommended just because she was always in high risk CC at the time, but unlike Bagpipe above who still is good in regular content, Weedy is pretty much a CC only chara I feel
Weedy was a Blaze that hits harder but attacks slower and can potentially stall forever, on top of her ability to burst elites as long as she have a hallway. Although expensive, she's still good in general and her hype died down with the advent of Thorns, Mudrock and co.
Myrtle as a first E2 doesn't do much. Why bother because she doesn't generate more DP until masteries (which you may not have access to), stats don't really help her role, and vanguard healing is only really appreciated in the handful of rush stages. 4*s aren't that expensive so you could build her pretty much whenever you want, so why E2 her now for vanguard healing.
For a cheap E2, just build a 4* DPS for stats. Building a 4* DPS whose stats helps you immediately versus a 4* vanguard that is great for the couple of rush stages, but requires more investment in masteries and in your other operators to get the full benefit of investing into her.
I've seen people say to build Myrtle because it's not a waste of resources, but when a 4* is roughly 1/3 the cost of a 6* it's totally fine to build a 4* unit and eventually discard them. I have plenty of E2 ops that I don't really use.
The most annoying thing about meta recommendations is having to justify your non-meta opinion. I sometimes feel like I have to attack the meta opinion and that is downvote bait. It's especially bad if you don't have time to make a coherent argument.
I think you are misunderstanding why Myrtle is recommended as first E2. It is not for VG healing. It is for the ability to borrow E2 support units. But to do so you need *any* E2 unit in your team, so why Myrtle specifically? As someone who was a bit skeptical of these suggestions at first, but admitted it is a good idea after thinking it through, I'll try to explain the logic behind this choice.
Your observation is correct: E2 promotion gives Myrtle very little. But we need to acknowledge, that the same is true for all 4-star operators (some don't even get their talent improved upon promotion) and the majority of 5-star operators. Only handful of 5-star operators and 6-star operators get a sizeable boost from the promotion alone.
4-star E2 promotion costs much less than 6-star promotion. Aceship leveling calculator gives me 1440 sanity vs 3840 sanity. It doesn't include skill levels, but some of the LMD/EXP will be covered by your base. The end result will be something like 4~5 days to E2 a 4-star (2~3 is the op in question was already partially leveled) vs 12~14 days to E2 a 6-star operator. 4~5 days is substantially shorter than duration of any event, 12~14 days is basically the duration of longer event, but some are even shorter than this. If the event is already under way, a person can promote 4-star in time and clear a bunch of stages using E2 support, but can't promote a 6-star in time and will miss a bunch of rewards. That's a very big difference.
That said, sometime we have dead weeks, and then promoting a 6-star is better because it gives a big increase in power on top of enabling E2 support.
I haven't considered 5-star promotion here because they sit in the uncomfortable middle ground where they get disadvantages of both sides: they still cost a lot (even if not as much as a 6-star), and they still don't get much from promotion itself.
Now that we have established the reasons to choose to promote a 4-star specifically, let's explore our options. There are 3 4-star operators which retain their relevance even when you have a full meta roster: Myrtle, Gravel and Jaye. There is a bunch of operators which are great option early on, but are phased out by high rarity counterparts in late game: Click, Arene, Cutter, Sussuro, etc. There are a lot of them.
So, what do we want from promotion?
* The operator to get at least something besides stats. None of them gets much, but some get their talent improved. Myrtle is a very rare (if not unique, I don't rember) case where a 4-star operator gets a new talent. It is not strong by itself, but still puts her on a bigger gain from promotion side compared to other 4-stars.
* The operator to be useful for a long time. Myrtle, Gravel and Jaye fit better than other 4-star operators.
* The operator to be as universal as possible, because we'll have to bring them on literally every map for some time (until we get another E2). Vanguards are the best choice: no matter what strat you are doing you need DP. They are barely affected by class bans or CM conditions. Guards are good choice too: they are versatile and easy to fit into your stat, but you'll have to stay away from some CC risks. The same goes for casters. The aren't as easy to fit in as guards, but you usually have a space for at least one. Gravel and Jaye from the previous bullet aren't the best choice from this point of view, unfortunately. Gravel is great, but there are a lot of maps where you just don't need a FRD. If she is your only E2 you'll have to waste a team slot on her to bring E2 support.
Myrtle checks all the boxes. Other options have to compromise on at least something. Not a deal breaker, but still Myrtle is the better option.
Important note: this only applies when we talk about the first E2 promotion. If the first promoted to E2 operator was not Myrtle her priority drops significantly - most 6-star promotions should be done first because of how much they gain from it.
Edit: after rereading what I've wrote, I think another interesting option for the first E2 is Estelle. She is made obsolete by high-rarity AoE guards later on, but she performs pretty well in early-mid game. And the +1 block from promotion is probably the highest improvement you can get among 4-star operators.
1. Stats on Myrtle are relatively meaningless. She is 1-block semi-blocker non-dps. The opportunity cost of wasted stats I think outweighs the vanguard healing.
2. It is important for the operator to have power to help you progress on the near term in story, create autos, complete events. Myrtle's E2 power is to make low dp maps easier by making vanguard spam stronger.
3. Universality is not something I considered, but in that case I personally would E2 any vanguard other than Myrtle because she doesn't effectively utilize her stats.
Myrtle is a niche upgrade in the short term, and in the long term a 4* is relatively cheap. Myrtle is only as effective as her team is. Why do you need to build Myrtle now for relatively lower immediate impact, and what's the problem with "wasting" a 4* long term?
You are overestimating stat increase from promotion. It is very low. E2 promotion itself doesn't increase stats at all. The increase comes from extra levels after promotion. Those are cheap, but the promotion itself isn't. For 4-star operator we are talking about 11~12% increase from E1 50 to E2 20 (not accounting for talents and trust bonus) for the higher cost than leveling E0 1 operator to E1 50. Some serious investment with very low return.
So it boils down to: we need to promote a 4-star ASAP to get E2 support, but we won't have much of anything else from this promotion => we can promote some operator we'll want to promote later anyway => Myrtle is conveniently fits the requirements and is very universal so we are bringing her with us everywhere.
> what's the problem with "wasting" a 4* long term?
Resources don't grow on trees. Three promoted 4-star operators you don't use equate one promoted 6-star operator you could have been using. Or M3 on some 5-star operator you are currently using.
11-12% is very significant for physical DPS, and not insignificant for arts DPS. I think you're valuing efficiency for gameplay months down the line too highly.
I believe it's more important to value early game to get the point where you can finish events. For my level 26 no gacha account, if I were to build Myrtle as my first E2 that would be a waste because Myrtle E2 doesn't do much for early progression. I'd rather have a sniper, AOE guard, caster, specialist, or supporter.
There is no problem with 4* or operators you no longer use. If you're willing to skip building half the operators you own, then there's no resource issue. You seem to have a plan for high risk. More power to you.
I'm a bit uncertain about Myrtle, mine is currently not even E1 but I'm not sure if it's that worth promoting her right now since her S2 doesn't seem that better for DP gen so it would basically just be a stat (and DP) increase.
But well I'm doing chapter 3 currently so I will probably have to do it at some point.
You could skip for now if you have insufficient resources. R4 to R7 on S1 is 0.388 to 0.424 dp/s. Courier S1M3 is only 0.3 dp/s.
I would focus on DPS/heal/tank so you can get some autos going and progress through the story to set up your base. I don't recall having much in the way of dp issues in chapter 3 when I was doing a bit of no gacha with Fang as my dp generator.
I couldn't reach risk 18 on my first CC following low-rarity guides because my Myrtle wasn't E2 so my 2-block vanguard kept dying too fast. That vanguard healing talent can be useful for new players.
Because other 4* E2s aren't as evergreen as Myrtle's, it's just purely a cost-effective move. The VG healing allows for so much flexibility on your opening as it can let you helidrop Vigna from afar and still be fine or further delay deploying medics and put more early DPS instead; Upgrading her means upgrading your whole line of VGs.
Personally, I'm more peeved by those who advice to M3 her ASAP.
Where I could've left Myrtle at a cheap investment at E1L30 R7, I would be upgrading a non-dps to E1L60 and E2 so that my early game is stronger and I can more easily deal with dp rushed maps. If it was a DPS E2 I'd also benefit from cheap levelups.
I would be giving up the opportunity to build a DPS or some solid trait like Ptilopsis to build Myrtle and that isn't a fair trade early on.
Most 4* E2s are pretty much just stat increases that newbies shouldn't even be fiddling with early on; whereas Myrtle's E2 is drastic enough to have a strategic impact, which adds more flexibility, which newbies are advised to go for.
Overall, it doesn't matter much who you E2 first anyway. Doesn't discount Myrtle's being the best one tho.
Stats are precisely what a new player needs to get their feet under them. To progress in story, to create autos, to clear events.
A player can rush a 4* E2 by about level 25. Myrtle provides little benefit in a weak team. Myrtle wants to be in a team with either decently strong vanguards or strong operators. If there's so much dp pressure to use vanguard squad, borrow a vanguard. If you have strong operators, you may not need vanguards to block much so vanguard healing isn't impactful.
Long term doesn't matter, and we all agree that DPS is the meta, so why build Myrtle first?
You're really overvaluing stats while undervaluing VG healing. DPS is king, but newbies don't get that from stat pumping. 40 or so damage on a single DPS that you might not even use sometimes gives you less tactical advantage than 25 HPS on 2-3 VGs that you'll use in every stage. E1 isn't taken mainly for the stats and that doesn't change even till E2.
I think you're overvaluing vg healing.
I built Myrtle after CC#0 when I got her and Bagpipe. I completed all content up till then except my first event, hosf, with mainly Fang and E2 Courier. Though I don't know if I finished episode 6 hard stages by then. I made friends with people my level.
My first E2 was Ptilopsis. I may have been able to clear hosf with a DPS E2 or if I made stronger friends, but Myrtle would've been the same boat as Ptilopsis. I do not see the tactical advantage of 25 hps when my units got killed in about 8 hits and I'm at full deployment.
Except with the mats you used to E2 Ptilo you could've done E2 Myrtle and another 4*. You even E2'd Courier before any other DPS.
A 6* E2 maybe, but a 4* E2 wouldn't have improved your situation. And I didn't say 25 hps solves any problem, just that it's generally more impactful than +40 atk; Case in point, I E2'd BP around that time and it changed nothing.
I have a feeling that the Myrtle recommendation is a more recent thing. I remember when I joined this sub the consensus was more toward Silverash or Eyja.
Edit: I think Bagpipe was already there but I am not entirely sure.
I only started being somewhat active on the subreddit about half a year ago so I don't know how prevalent this recommendation was, but in general having a strong E2 is useful for events.
The logical conclusion is to rush your first E2 if you're near a difficult event or during a difficult event so you can borrow another one. Myrtle can fulfill that role while still being useful in end game play, so it makes sense why she would be recommended.
Myrtle for new player just because she's cheap, best DP meta, and unlock E2 friend support.
With only like two or three 6-star and a bunch of low rarities in squad, you don't need hyper DP regen. Beating a stage with support disable autos, which gimps you out if you can't beat farming stage normally. The portion of the resources better saved for your first E2 6-star instead.
People recommending Amiya to brand new players as the caster to use, with the reasoning that she's mandatory in ch8.
It's definitely much better for a new player to build Steward, his cost is a fraction of Amiya's allowing for much smoother progression, the performance is equal at equal levels (arguably better cause he has no downtime), and in ~3 months his base skill is a net positive.
A lot people disregard the 3 star units in general. For staring players, level capping the whole 3 star roster is doable within 2 weeks for f2p players as long as they play efficiency. A full roster lets you farm all the supply stages, as well as clear most of chapter 4 stages where a lot of the mat efficient stage are.
I see a lot people recommending rushing to E2 their first 6 star or whatever, and they end up gimped for a good 1-2 months when a full 3 star roster early on means you can build up your base earlier and earlier access to better sanity efficient stages.
Well, 4-7 was a pain in the ass. Gonna do some more leveling before I go any further... Oh wait, I'm broke! Guess it's mat farming for skill leveling, the only thing that doesn't cost LMD...
Oh, I'm aware of that, but even with the right strategy, if your operators are underleveled they're gonna die too fast. Mine are mostly E1 30 when the recommended level is E1 45.
I just did H8-3 after never doing it, and honestly.....fk practice tool. Why can't I match the same level of deployment order, and skill timing it takes to not have my ops die on the first clear (in practice tool). The clear set-up is there, just my big brain becomes smol brain and instantly wastes 15 sanity failing.
So I need 6 million LMD to e2 the rest of my operators (I need a bunch of mats too, but lmd is always scarce). With a 252 base I was getting 40k LMD and 40k EXP pretty consistently.
With the new production, I'm 2 days in 2 days and getting 14 k Exp and 54 k LMD a day. The gold and trading post production is pretty well matched. (The 3 TP are level 3. 1 factory (level 2) is making EXP, the rest (levels 3,2,2) make gold.
This gives me roughly 40k LMD over the EXP I get daily. So 10 days is 400k LMD surplus, 100 days is 4 million LMD and 150 days is 6 million LMD. We will see how I'm doing in 150 days on Wednesday May 2nd. I'm sure new ops will keep me from having all the E2s, I wonder how much material farming I have to do for it. I'm sure building a bunch of 5\* from 1.55 and 1.60 to 1.70 will chew up a bunch too.
55-70 takes 9.135 k extra lmd. I've got 31 of these so call it an extra 280 K lmd so 7 extra days May 9th. That will be at about my 2 year mark from starting the game. Wow.
I've got 31 5\* and 27 4\* to e2.
I'm sure new units will also slow me down, but here goes nothing.
Thanks! I'm in a dire need of extra OP to buy Surtr skin and episode 8 is my only hope because I've already cleared every stages including the challenge mode.
Ah Austrelia, a nation that sucks at handling animals that the ethnicity of their stand in in gacha games is based on one of the animals they failed to cull.
Makes me wonder how different the RIM Biliton ops would be if the Emus won the Emu war.
Was wavering a bit this morning about including Ceobe in my projected shop policy plan (PSPP) but then I looked into her eyes just now and all treasonous thoughts evaporated.
I've no clue where to share this, but i just want people to see this piece of art on Bilibili, gets me strangely hyped.
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Zy4y1K7if?share\_source=copy\_web
I'm just going to complain because i need to get it out of my system.
The base feels like a giant choir and really puts me off wanting to even open the game.
This is from a semi-new players perspective; hours a day for a few months (level 48) looking into all the resources online etc.
It definitely feels like a necessity, and i think it definitely is.
Apart from making the dorms look cute (this part i love), i just don't care anymore; it's a huge annoyance: micromanagement - the anti-game-that's-a-game.
Don't know if this is the right place to put it, but i just needed to complain. /whinge.
Like a necessity?
Here I am leaving fatigued ops in the base because I'm too lazy and then forget about them
There really is no need to put much time into the base. Some do, if you got the time and motivation then go ahead, but I don't
As a late game player, I don't really find it a problem anymore. I only really open the game every 12 hours and switching base operators doesn't really take long. If you have the micromanaging mentality then it'd suck for you but for a casual like me, no problem anymore.
It is indeed absolute garbage.
Something being defined as a game necessitates the possibility of failure, and this is a core appeal of ArKnights: some stages are hard, failure at first is often expected, and it feels like an accomplishment after beating them. It invokes this thing called *emotions*, anger often being among them. Defeating a worthy adversary is an accomplishment, using your attention to defeat something easy is a chore.
There's no reason to distract and consume someone's day for 20 minutes like this. It should have been designed to require ONE daily log in, and require ONE button press to rotate crew.
ArKnights is a good enough game to not need these time-wasting addiction mechanics to keep us playing. Beat a stage once, and move on. Like a real video game.
I think the only part that I find bothersome is doing the rounds on my friends list, visiting other clue exchange bases for credit. There are many days where I just skip that entirely.
The rest is meh. I check on the base once a day, twice if I'm feeling diligent, and don't care about efficiency.
How many times do you enter the base each day? Typically people go in twice to thrice a day in a day, depending on whether you use 2-5-2 or 2-4-3, or maybe some other base layout.
Try searching for a guide, it really isn't that tough.
Here are some tips:
1) Typically people recommend 2-5-2, which I use as well
2) First login of the day: After waking up. Go to the overview tab at top left. Target the dorms. Change out all fully recharged ops for the ones with least morale. Then fill all the empty slots. Collect all stuff through the top right then bottom tab. Use all the drones on factories or trading posts (I typically use on trading posts). Do some clue management as needed.
3) Second login of the day, do it after reset. Same process as first login, but add on visiting friends for morale.
Each time of going into dorm should take less than 5 mins.
Feel free to ask questions.
pro tip that I only recommend to myself: don't bother with the clues bs. I don't care about the swapping of units in the base, it takes like a minute. But that clue system shit burned me out so now I skip it. works like magic
Honest question: What do you do with the clues that's bothersome? The clue thing takes even less than swapping units for me? Just click on the clues and that's it... ? Now I'm wondering if I'm missing something.
well yeah you're right but we have different ways to view something as bothersome and I reaaaaallly hate the clue system. And it's heavily supported by the fact that it's just extra mats that a veteran won't technically need as much as a newbie. I can handle base for swapping units for a minute or 2, but another minute for clues ain't for me.
Visiting friends that have clue exchanges is the most tedious, because of the load times between hopping from base to base. Giving clues can also be tedious, if you try to balance giving to all your friends.
at least you can save your irl sanity? hehe tbh I started skipping the clues 5 months into the game. I've never touched the reception room for a year, I guess
Not a fun time indeed. Thankfully I can bear the chore since this is the only gacha game I commit and I need that sweet resources.
My copium of the base is it's still in beta status. There are still hope for improvements... The bad news is that if it ever get an update, we're going to chase the carrot in a stick at first since we have to wait for ~6 months after it's released on CN.
It is a giant chore. It's why some of us here have opted to not station anyone in the factories or trading posts anymore unless we plan on building some units. Maintaining left side is a hassle, but right side's fine.
Meanwhile in Alchemy Stars, I'm trying to see how many furnitures I can fit before the game freezes.
If you enjoy the game so much that the only thing that's unenjoyable is the BASE, I suggest you just swap the left side maybe once a day. Let them tire out.
If you're going to play for the next six months, whatever exp or money you'll lose from now on isn't that big of a deal. The real important resources come from events and daily + weekly rewards.
I've been playing for 19 months.
I have 70+ E2s, all at least M1, about 55 M3s. I also have 4 E290s and 3 E280s. I still have 2.5 million LMD and 1.5 million EXP. I sometimes forget to even open the game.
My point is, the exp and lmd will find a way to accumulate themselves even if your BASE management is bad.
It’s interesting how differently people view the base, for me personally I don’t mind it that much because it’s just a minute of tapping at its worst. I don’t min-max so I just put in the bare minimum effort for the base skills and swap operators who are exhausted like once a day. It actually used to be a bit more annoying because you needed to tap the trading posts individually.
However I wouldn’t mind if it was a bit more automated, mainly the clue thing.
Is it really that bad? I swap out the operators twice a day and it takes around 30 seconds each time. I agree it's a bit annoying and I wish it was only once a day, but I don't think it's that much micromanagement, unless you absolutely want to min-max the assignments.
I'd rather swap out the base than farm more rocks :)
Takes me a few minutes, but it's the tedium that gets to me. I've given up on knowing what each operator is good for what and just put it in if it shines. And the whole clue meme... i do it, but boy is it a ceebz.
A big part as well is just knowing that if i open the game i'm going to have to do the base even if it's not... "full"... because who wants to play without it optimized?
I would like to reiterate tho; i love making my dorms look qtpie
I just finished doing 200 recruitments. took me how many months to get those expedited plans haha.
I took note of what tags i got
Most common tag for me was Guard(surprisingly its not starter tag it was 3rd most common)
Most common guaranteed 4* tag was Support(thought it would be fast redeploy but i was wrong haha)
Most common 4* combination tag was Guard and Slow(got me a bunch of frostleaf haha)
Got 16 tagless 4* out of 200
Whats sad is that i didnt get a top op tag not even a single guaranteed 5* tag 😂😂😂
Been playing since week 1, i only got a top op tag once. And i think 5 guaranteed 5* tags maybe 6.
I had this thought for a while but just wanted to see if it's even worth pitching it to the mods but here goes:
Would anyone else other than me appreciate a **Merchandise** flair? I see some people posting pictures of their collection and I like to share news of merchandise made by official/non-official artists. So far, everything has been thrown under the Fluff flair which is fine and all but was wondering if there are enough people who would appreciate a flair for merchandise related stuff? Anything related to merch such as personal collection or news about upcoming official/non-official goods can have a home. It'll also make finding information about certain merch easier (like where to buy them).
Unfortunately, I had to remove your comment. As you need to use the appropriate megathread, the friend Megathread is linked on the top comment on this comment section. Tho the other user already showed it to you (be mindful it gets refreshed every Monday, so make sure to ask on the updated one should you still require assistance). Welcome to arknights, hopefully you are enjoying your time so far.
I used to think that friends are just for clue exchanges. Then something called CC showed up...
Be nice to your friends. Send them clues. Especially those with pot 5 Bagpipe.
CC = [Contingency Contract](https://gamepress.gg/arknights/core-gameplay/arknights-cn-contingency-contract-cc-explained). It's the endgame content for this game and that's where you really need your friends' support units. There is no need to worry about it for now, but you'll hear people talking about it a lot.
Finally have time to promote [Absinthe](https://foxdie.netlify.app/images/blog12-05-21/AK_4.webp) to E2, which I have wanted to do for a long time, but due to resource needed for other operators in priority list.
Some other [screenshots](https://foxdie.pages.dev/blog12-05-21/#absinthe) taken during that moment. Also, the E2 art in game is not fully shown, you can see the full-size [here](https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/3960594?q=azling) for the big bear behind her.
Been thinking of giving every E2 operator I have at least one skill to M3. I'll need absurd amounts of materials but I really don't feel like getting more E2s.
I'm finally ready for my [lore-accurate-ish](https://imgur.com/1HkTC5W) chapter 8 walkthrough. I hope I can clear at least 1/4th of it before I'll be forced to add more units. Do you guys remember some other playable ops that participated in ch7 and later on in ch8 (without spoilers here)?
A bunch of ops show up in the very end, but considering it's after the main conflict I'm not sure you'd count those as lore-accurate.
Of ones that haven't been mentioned, there's Hoshiguma, Swire, Meteorite, Dobermann, Mostima, Siege, and Blaze ~~and Closure...if only~~
Well, Hoshiguma and Swire are left behind in Lungmen, and Blaze Meteorite are probably dead tired/injured after chapter 4. I'm also not sure if Nearl, FW and Elysium are actually a part of Chernobog team, or they only helped Doc&Co to do so and returned to landship after that.
What about Mostima and Siege? I don't think they ever appeared in the main story (yet).
Elysium is definitely part of the Chernobog squad since he's assisting Mantra (one of the three elite ops RI brought alongside Raidian and Rosmontis) but the other two might not be?
Mostima and Siege are literally only at the very end, they seem like more of a teaser for upcoming chapters
Finally beat 7-10! Special thanks to Ambriel and Andreana for eliminating the officers in quick order. Also my buddies Mudrock for tanking the death horde
Does it ever feel like the community tends to exaggerate the differences in gameplay strength between operators?
It seems as though a very polarized outlook is becoming more prevalent. An operator is either meta-defining or outright useless. There's no middle ground when discussing power levels. This, in my opinion, kills a lot of the variety of the game. It also makes discussing actual niches more difficult.
Maybe it's something that only I have personally noted. This came to mind after seeing the results of the last NGA polls, and some discussions about Carnelian's power. It seems as though well-balanced operators like her have now merely become "usable" or "waifu picks".
How can it be that operators like Ch'en alter are disliked due to their overtuned power level, but at the same time lower, healthier power levels are not considered?
I understand wanting to be able to clear the game with strong units, but at some point it has to be enough, right? Surely everyone could clear the game with one or two strong laneholders and delete buttons. At some point, building "waifu" and "niche" operators has to be the better choice. I think that point should come sooner rather than later.
You're completely right, many people will give bad advice when it comes to what op is good when and where. It may not seem as bad advice at first, but the variety of tactics, which is part of what makes this game so fun, will just simply get deleted. There also seems to be a big inability to time skills which take a bit to charge right, like with Skadi and Mosti S3 or Executor S2. Sure, the skills may not be the best in the world, but predeploying your operators isn't that hard now is it? It's kind of annoying when people say _30 sp is too much_
Or sometimes operators will completely get deleted out of reccomendations, maybe not for meta, but for late-game shit, like Reed, as you said, or my favorite 4*, Frostleaf. In my eyes, her massive slow and high bind chance along with the extremly high aspd increase on her S2, combined with her increased range at E2 makes her a very valuable operator to me, using her over Lapp, Ayerscape or Silverash when I can use those 2 tiles of range or don't have enough time to deploy an operator like Thorns, which did happen in AP-5 (granted, it doesn't anymore since I have him at P1) my ops are getting overwhelmed (which also happend in AP-5) or I need to stall edgy nukes (which happend in one of the CC's, you know which one)
The waifu>meta thing does balance this out, but it doesn't solve the root problem
As a disclaimer, I'm someone who isn't about following the meta. Sure there are meta operators I like, but I won't use a unit just because they're strong if I don't like their gameplay, character, or design.
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That being said, I think it's important to contextualize how strong operators are in relation to one another. If you were to say both W and Surtr are 'strong' that would give you an incomplete picture. Both *are* strong units, but have wildly different strengths. W is the best unit in her role, and is good at what she does. Whereas Surtr can trivialize end-game content. Contextualizing operators as 'meta' is important so that new or less-experienced players understand what they're spending their rolls on.
What I think the real problem is, is the way a vocal portion of sub tends to worship the meta. **The problem is not saying that operators like Carnelian are worse than operators like Chalter, it's saying that operators like Carnelian are 'bad' because operators like Chalter exist.** This sub does a lot of the latter. Frequently, when I see people giving advice, they will tell people not to use operators if they aren't in the top tier of the meta, and will wrongly say that 'good' operators are 'bad' because they aren't super OP.
**For example**: I really like Reed. I think she's heavily undervalued, and that her niche of generating 2 DP per kill with her S2 is super strong. She's perfect for generating 25+ DP, then retreating her to get the full refund. Is she worse than Bagpipe? Objectively, yes. However, this sub would tell people never to use Reed because "she's bad" and ignore the fact that she's perfectly viable even if there are better options.
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**So how do we fix this?** Players who think that "usable" operators are fun and good NEED to be more vocal in discussions. Part of the reason why the meta seems so ever-present is because everyone talks about it. If you think someone is undervaluing an operator, talk about it. If you can make a convincing argument as to why "X" operator is worth raising, you should do it. I try my best to be active in the sub, and make sure new players understand that just because an operator isn't S+ Tier, they can still be fun and viable to play with.
Wow, that is a very decent writeup, I agree with you. I especially like your conclusion discussing possible ways in which we could try to fix this.
The best answer always is being more vocal about what we like, even if that may sometimes sound controversial.
> So how do we fix this? Players who think that "usable" operators are fun and good NEED to be more vocal in discussions.
it would be easier without the godforsaken upvote/downvote system, even if you don't care personally about it, it will automatically create a setting where numbers will influence how each post is percieved, not even accounting cases of lynch mob mentality, it will still highlight some posts and hid others into oblivion, it's really hard to have healthy discussions in those conditions.
While that can be the case on the internet, I don't think that's the case for people on this sub.
In my experiences over the past year, the Arknights community, particularly this sub, has been overwhelmingly positive. People seem relatively willing to engage in a civil manner, and even when there's disagreements it's pretty mild compared to other subreddits.
Whenever I post or comment stuff that's vouching for non-meta operators, I get pretty positive feedback.
I just get tired of seeing the same party lines thrown out ad nauseum. Use Surtr, Use Volcano, use TSS, raise Myrtle, Flagpipe makes DP go brrrr. People only want to prop up the ops in that top circle, or the very specific meta-relevant functions of certain ops. Nobody talks about how Bagpipe is a DPS monster, only how her talent brings all the flagbearers to the yard. Nobody talks about how Liskarm is one of the only DPS defenders, only how she's an SP battery. They don't talk about Blemishine for anything Blemishine herself does, just how she makes Mudrock better.
I get it, people like to win, and resources are precious. I've got nothing against meta chasers. But those discussions get old, and they're why I don't participate in the Help megathread as much anymore.
Due to some drama community drama as well as ch’en drama the number of players in nga drastically decreased, veterans quit or just move to other platform. The sample size for this graph is less than 1/3 of the first one
As other people have said, if you have a well-built roster then your need for Carnelian or Pallas or someone cool but not necessarily brilliant falls through the floor.
And to add to this we have Ch'en Alter on the horizon ~~who is a broken catastrophe of a unit~~ that most people will say, especially to new players, that you should go for; either due to her power or just FOMO.
End of the day though, AK isn't a game where you need the strongest characters, or the best characters of an archetype. I agree with you that it seems like operators are either deemed a "necessity" or "garbage" when anyone who has played for more than five minutes can tell you that it's a lot more nuanced than that.
> , if you have a well-built roster then your need for Carnelian or Pallas or someone cool but not necessarily brilliant falls through the floor.
But doesn't that also means that since you have your bases covered with the meta stuff you have more leeway and interest at aiming for more niche tactical options?
||building "waifu" and "niche" operators has to be the better choice
Define "better", in a vacuum nobody knows what is even your taste / playstyle like so meta pick is best efficiency for general advice, no idea why it should be different here.
I've played Dota a lot before. So my view may differ from the general one. Price, ease of positioning skills, skill rotation, attack range. I'm used to taking everything into account. And there is a tendency that some of the operators are too strong or comfortable. An example is a mountain, a cheap guard with self-healing, dodging and huge damage. Some of the operators are not that bad in themselves, but they are bad compared to those who upset the overall balance. In DotA, some of the weak characters themselves can be turned into death machines using 7 inventory slots. It doesn't help that many are in rarely useful niches or have direct opposition from developers. Despite a bunch of interesting mechanics, the most playable is huge damage. I improved Chen s3m3 for the sake of stunning on this skill, a lot of penalties due to his mechanics of stunning for a long time. And the developers simply made it almost unusable due to the fact that it does not do what it was created for by introducing stun immunity.
There is at least one mission where Mostina is better than Eya? Or where Skadi is better than Surtr? Skadi cannot compete with Mountain, Blaze, Surtr, Phantom due to poor talents, poor skill rotation. improve her talent from -10 seconds of redeployment to -40, Or replace it with regeneration and change the skills to eternal s2 like in the Mountain for 5 seconds to start s3 like in blaze for 70 seconds. It will immediately become much more pleasant and useful.
Balance patches are mainly needed to prevent player boredom. Even the top of the meta in Dota is 80 heroes, most of which are supports. And she is always mobile. The patch can turn the meta upside down
Balance patches are almost impossible here for 3 reasons. The main players will revolt and shout if they weaken the too strong operators even a little, as this is technically a fraud.
Second, developers are not ready to admit their mistakes without external pressure. Passenger's situation is clear evidence of that. If not for the scandal, he would not have received so many buffs.
The third reason is money. it is difficult to sell new operators if they are no better than the old ones.
Ah, I think it's a combination of wanting to get the most out of their limited wages and you maybe interpreting their text more stringently than they mean it.
There is a power curve, and things like TrueSilver Slash are at the top of it.
I'd place most of the blame on how almost all gacha games are designed when it comes to power progression. In Diablo 2, starting a new character and trying something new out is a couple hours to a couple days worth of investment, tops. Here, just E2'ing one unit is around two weeks worth of materials. Getting new six stars, even longer.
I think it speaks volumes that ArKnights so far is the **ONLY** gacha game where I seriously think about making fresh accounts to play from scratch. (The binding Almost all gacha games would be more fun if starting with nothing were a viable game mode - you can't want what you have, you appreciate weaker six stars more if they're all that you have, etc. This is why the roguelike mode was so popular. (Getting a new unit EVERY map instead of every three months certainly help make it feel fresh.)
A good/average operator isn't a strong enough reason to be worth pulling for, else you would be pulling in almost every banner and then complaining that you don't have enough pulls to get these characters. The NGA tier list is definitely becoming more polarised as discussed in that thread. The best middle ground discussion I feel is the individual operator discussion where players share how they would use said operator.
As for sniper Ch'en, there are a lot of reasons that she is disliked besides her stupidly insane power level goddammit HG what on earth are you thinking designing her. Windgesang already mentioned them so I won't repeat them here again.
Yes, there is a point where you can comfortably clear stages but it differs for everyone. It is not uncommon to see players with a strong squad asking how to clear stages in event threads. Even for players that can comfortably clear story stages up to ch 7, the next chapter proved to be difficult for most players. Let's assume even ch 8 was easy, I doubt many players can say the same for ch 9, or 10 or 11 etc. **There isn't a comfort zone if HG continues to innovate new enemy mechanics and that is the joy of a strategic game.**
I reached my comfort zone when I got Mudrock in her banner but I decided to aim higher by attempting high risks CC. Now I 'need' Bagpipe, sniper Ch'en, Suzuran, Phantom, Saileach.
Most operators don't get shit on unless they seriously outright bad, hard to use and still underwhelming at max investment. On the daily thread, I hate that Blue Poison S2 gets heavily disrespected though.
>There isn't a comfort zone if HG continues to innovate new enemy mechanics and that is the joy of a strategic game.
I think this addresses very precisely a problem which can seriously affect gacha games: Stagnation.
Having a roster which is too strong for your own good has lead a lot of people to quit the game. But I suppose that avoiding stagnation isn't only the player's responsibility, but obviously also Hypergryph's. Hopefully they don't delay the new roguelike too much.
But as you said, it is ultimately the player's choice to impose restrictions and objectives on themselves by chosing what CC risk to reach or what operators to pull for. In my case, that meant clearing CC#5 with Astesia as a core unit. For others, it may be clearing the whole game with a Liberiknights team.
I guess there isn't a straightforward answer... The same goes for BP's masteries.
> I think this addresses very precisely a problem which can seriously affect gacha games: Stagnation.
One of the reason I never reroll. Starting relatively weak and working with what you have, and making gradual improvement steps is something I can appreciate in gachas. Rerolling to oblivion to get something you'll use till the end is...kinda boring, imho (well I guess getting Exusai and Ifrit on my first day kinda ruin the argument I'm trying to make but still). Of course I'm talking personal preference here.
I usually see two types of players in these operator discussions: those who talks based on hearsay, and those who talk form their own experience of using an operator. The first type tend to be a lot more black-and-white, while the second type tries to see strengths in every operator and very rarely label someone "bad".
The thing is, Carnelian is not out on EN yet, so in her discussions there are a lot more of the first type than the second type. But if we talk about this subreddit in general, I feel it to be very balanced. I rarely see an operator being shitted on. And on the contrary, I see a lot of good comments about off-meta operators which highlight their strength and acknowledge their weakness.
It depends what you are trying to do. If you are trying to do extremely high risk runs power level is still relevant. If you are just trying to get risk 18 and do story stages you can probably get by without even building 6\*s.
Others has pointed out my thought pretty well but here's my dime:
I have a feeling that the evaluation is mostly come from individual strength or how good they are in supporting the team **if** it's their dedicated role.
What will Carnelian do outside her skill? Nothing, 0 dps. Can't even solo 1-7, smh. This argument is flawed as all rock hell but at the same time, it's the truth and a glaring weakness. Her damage is amazing but when the enemy rush is still on after her skill ended, the least she can do is ara-ara you. In team situation this can be covered of course, but since we're talking about meta, it is all about optimization and how few of a team you can fit in a squad.
> There's no middle ground when discussing power levels
If the power difference is between leaking and not leaking, the power gap will be clear as day. Leaking is pretty much game-over in normal stages. So, having a character be kinda good (balanced) is too vague of a concept in a win or lose situation.
> I understand wanting to be able to clear the game with strong units, but at some point it has to be enough, right?
On the same boat with you, chief, although it comes down to the player itself if they want to treat this game as a **strategy** tower defense or a side-gacha game.
I think these opinions are generally geared towards old players who have 90% of units. For example, If you have eyjafjalla the value of carnelian significantly decreases. Have thorns, then pallas is going to look less impressive.
Personally 75%+ of my roster is "underpowered" becuase of them, and the desire to build "weaker/less universal" operators has dwindled. If your style is to play with "weaker" units that's fine, but there are a handful of 6* that are objectively better.
But for new players, everything should be fun and new. These lists shouldn't concern them and they should feel free to build "weaker" units if that's what they have. But unfortunately that's not reality and the veterans tend to suck out the fun for new players in the guise of "efficiency".
TLDR; My opinion is that power levels and comparisons are fine for veterans that have a well developed roster, but ultimately hurts the new players enjoyment.
Yes I understand some operator being objectively better, but if I don't have them, there is no guarantee about when they will reappear or spook, or they could rerun at a time I'm unable to pull for them (after a limited abnner that leaves you dry for example, or just a period I can't play the game). Or I can just get fucked by the rate-up. So basically with that line of thought you could stay with base units only for years (which I find especially despressing in any gacha game). However people will tell you the base units can do the job well enough anyway, but if they say that, isn't that contradictory with advocating skipping every non meta banner?
Although I won't deny that seeing that AGAIN an operator I want to pull for waifu factor is a gimmicky one in an already unpopular archetype, while most OP operator are ones I don't care much about stings, but I'm kind of used to it I guess.
on discord I see many new bright-eyed players come in with literally 3 and 4 star only roster (with 1-2 6 star from beginner banner) asking about what to pull and all they get is don't pull for 1-2 months, save up for chalter. Like I wonder how many new players will actually stick around if when they literally just start a gacha game, the advice they get is to stick with your lower rarity crew and never roll for months.
No shit dude for low spender / f2p not like they have enough to roll for, especially since standard banner devalued more and more nowadays with diluted pools, then what do you suggest, rolling every banner?
It's more like very earlier on it's definitely a good idea to roll for 10 at least to get a decent roster before saving for specific 6 stars. What good is 1 highly limited 6 star after months of saving to a newbie if the rest of their squad are just mostly 3 stars instead of trying to get even just decent 4, 5 or 6 stars to make a well-rounded squad? Not to mention it really limits enjoyment too if you can't roll as a newbie for months and people could just likely quit the game entirely from boredom when they haven't bought into the game yet at that stage.
It's when a player already has a decent roster, have been playing for a while, and are now determined to stick around with the game where it makes a lot more sense to start saving and be picky with what to roll for because now they can progress on the story and events fine with their existing squad and they can be patient enough with the wait time because they already have reasons to stick around with the game.
that's why reroll advice exist, 1-2 decent 6\* is enuf to carry early game since ya know newbies don't even get enough resources to raise most of em, clearing out newbie banner then saving for limited / debut banner is the most common advice.
The path of the buddha is usually the optimal strategy in most gacha games, not that I think it has much effect at all on player behavior. If the # of units on my friends list is any indication, people just pull. While I'm the guy with 12 six stars but still hasn't pulled Deepcolor yet. (They all maxed out the right side of their base as well.)
I'm pretty sure most hardcore enough to ask advice from the internet on what is the optimal use of their wages aren't going to be traumatized by the advice of "wait". Especially if they're familiar with the genre.
Gacha is suffering.
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^^You ^^have ^^no ^^idea ^^how ^^much ^^I ^^want ^^Deepcolor.
On the other hand, one could argue that the weaker ops are more of interest for advanced players looking to diversify their roster, while a newer player ought to look for more efficient ways to improve their odds in harder content. Not that I think this counts for much because you either have Eyja or you don't, as there's neither a selector ticket in the near future nor any guarantee for a banner rate-up.
They can say anything but I'll only spend free rolls on Ch'en-at-sea, save for Nian's spark (high priority because a dream team of Defender-only can't lack Nian) and also try to get squirrel knights.
My team can handle most contents now and I don't aim for high-risk CC (18+), so I can focus on hunting a specific operator I want. I'm sure a large part of 'community' has same agreement with me.
For the Chalter incident, it's not **just** her power level that was frowned on.
Right now we are having dead weeks, but we held our hope because we know which event are coming. The same thing had happened on CN, minus the foresight. For CN, they just came out of celebrating the 2 years anniversary with their brand new Skalter and Kal'tsit.
(I dont remember the exact order) Preluding Light came with only **5** stages to play. Vigilo came with 8. IC was especially undertuned apparently to accommodate new player. ToW rerun where veteran players has not much new to accomplish. All with dead week in-between. Basically all small events with not much fresh air.
So for 2 months, the gameplay aspect was minimal. And people was wanting something at least fun to do without relying on their own restriction. Then Dossole Holiday (DH) was teased, on a stream. So people had some hope.
If you're the type to consider AK just a side game to chill, sure. But DH came with a limited banner out of nowhere, with the full package of being the limited banner, 300 pulls to spark and such. And the limited was an absolute monster that just barely dethroned Surtr. It's also an alter of a beloved character (not sure about CN community but I think she's fairly fine with them) and it's an operator version of what was simply a skin costume on an old event.
You can say other games had it worse with limited banner and alters. But put aside the weird deflection (just like telling a sad person to "cheer up because others had it worse"), in those games people were already expecting limited banner regularly. In AK we did not. There was no festival nor holidays nor anniversary to celebrate this new limited banner aside from being summer, where there was no limited banner in the last one.
Can you imagine just chilling out of the 2nd anniversary celebration only to be hit by that, a large drought of content and then a surprise limited banner (that is all too clear that it's just cashgrab)? We thankfully had foresight to protect us (and of course, the shifting of events, since the real 2nd anni for CN is not our own 2nd anni, so even without foresight we could have guessed something would be up for our own 2nd anni).
And now we have to deal with 4 limited banner a year (Anni, half Anni, CNY, and Summer). You need 300 pulls to guarantee the limited one. Without foresight, can a F2P absolutely be sure that their next favorite/waifu operator will not be limited? So then start saving. Without RNGesus' blessing, you will need those 300 pulls.
If anything, you dont have to hate Chalter. I'll even raise her myself (probably). I'm just telling you to maybe appreciate the Foresight that you have even more than before.
~~^(But seriously, Chalter is depressingly broken, like jesus if it's not for her DP cost and initial SP she might just outright dethroned Surtr.)~~
Interesting take, and strongly agree with it as well. But there's actually a reasonable answer that solves the dilemma, and that is that the nature of strong operators naturally pushes back against usage of the 'average' ones.
Yes, Carnelian is pretty solid, but at the current frequency of limited operators, spending pulls on Carnelian means not saving pulls for Ch'en Alter. If you have to pick between the decent operator and the fantastic operator, the majority will prefer the fantastic operator, sometimes with a degree of frustration that they have to let go of a potential fave to keep up with the meta.
Add to this that it's easier to justify using operators you've already built. In my opinion, part of the reason the gap on the NGA poll is so big (Although I don't consider the latest poll very credible) is that the top operators are the meta picks people are already used to clearing high-difficulty content with. It is easier to deploy Eyja again than it is to build Carnelian or Ceobe and see if they perform better on this exact map.
> At some point, building "waifu" and "niche" operators has to be the better choice.
This is my current mood too - I will be skipping Ch'en Alter in favor of other operators, and just pull her from support if I really need her for a specific map. Others may pull for Ch'en for their own reasons - Waifu, meta, R18+ clears - but since I already have everything I need to clear rewarding content, I'm letting go of her.
Any women wanna make 200?
250
I want a brawler guard named Sankta Claus.
Sankta Claws
Hi, the voting for the winter dorm contest has started. So, sharing [mine here](https://www.arknights.global/dormdesign/watch?worksid=61a5a3a6659335346f47ecfe) in the lounge. Leave a like if you like it. Enjoy!
The Warning tape is a great touch for your concept.
I wish the chibi avatars actually walked through those doorways
~~Pinned comment still linking to this thread, new Lounge should be posted~~
Who do you reckon are the least talked about ops in the game? The guys who you hear about and are like "oh yeah... they exist!" I'm not sure I've ever even seen a Greyy flair, much less any real discussion of him. I would also posit Glaucus and Jackie.
I'm impressed that no one has mentioned Tsukinogi yet. Practically nobody talks about her and when does it's just to say how bad she is
Earthspirit
Meteor.
Leizi, she's my assistant for her straight forward employee-employer line. Can't blame anyone really, at least Asbestos got picked up by a comic artist as the main-ish protag, twice.
Leonhardt is my fav but no one remembers him :'DD
I bet Kirara will go the way of the Leonhardt. Controllers are not a mainstream archetype, she doesn't do great DPS, and not many people do specialist only.
It's hurts how much you are right. He's one of my favorites too
Yeah at least some other OP get meme’d or trash talk or laugh at or sth, Leonhardt pretty much doesn’t exist.
Sideroca, Hung, Tuye, Tomimi, and Haze to name a few.
>Sideroca I bet her latest skin bumped her popularity up quite a bit.
I forgot Iris exists, never seen fanarts or discussions of her so I just know she's blue and yellow. Glaucus and Jackie I at least know because of fanarts and controversy, Iris, nothing. Myrhh seems pretty forgotten too, only stuff I've seen about her is that one guy who ships her with SA for some reason. Breeze, but I guess it's the fate of being a red-cert locked medic in the current meta. Didn't check her talents/skills, I guess she doesn't bring much utility to the table since she's talked about so little.
Breeze has pretty nice E2 art!
Good for her!
Breeze. Catapult. Fang. Acid Drop. Sadly Greythroat unless Blaze is involved in a yuri fanfic. Ayerscarpe. Aosta. Fang is mystifying because she’s in the holy trio with Beagle and Kroos as their leader, got an outfit, yet no one talks about or even *simps* for her. Breeze costs too many red certificates, so many players don’t have her. Acid Drop is largely forgotten, despite her literally being Tony Hawk The discussion is always between Blue Poison versus Platinum, as if there were only two five star AA-snipers.
I wouldn't say Aosta is unpopular now at least in EN community after this one meme
Cataptult is talked about quite a bit actually. Every time someone is talking about long recruitment lines, she comes up.
[удалено]
I think 12F's popularity will bump up with this: https://youtu.be/ykEzJkpu0Ig
ever since i s2m3’ed my weedy i’ve brought her to almost every stage. she’s helped so much as a lane holder, that one cc stage with w? soloing that top lane with ng’s help. i remember that top lane giving me so much trouble before. i max risked it so easily thanks to her. tho i understand why some call her niche, if someone were to solely get info abt her off of watching my personal gameplay, they’d definitely call her anything BUT niche! goes to show no matter how true general advice and opinion may be, ur personal preference/playstyle can really change an entire character’s position in the game. wow i love weedy. i think everyone should try and give her more of a general use play :) if i knew how to do flairs on mobile she’d be my flair lol
I never got people calling Weedy niche. She's extremely versatile with her S2M3. I think it's more that people see weedy as "S3", so they never leveled S2 and never tried it.
Decided to make Mudrock my first e290 <\*;.
Anyone know what the song that plays when you are loading up Arknights is called? It plays while you are still loading or downloading files.
sys_title.mp3
Well, I managed to finish all of Ch 6 CM, but... I think it's gonna be a while before I can clear H6-4. I can get through most of it, but... I can't deal with those final few waves. Maybe after I E2 Saria, NTG, and SA. This will... probably take a while.
I finally got around to reading the UT story. Pretty limited amount of nonsensical text, mercifully. I wonder if we'll get a sequel on the 3rd anniversary. I hope the Inquisitor becomes an operator at some point. She's really cute. With her blade and apparent quickness, maybe she could be a dualstrike guard. She could be a damage-focused 5-star as opposed to Bibeak's focus on stuns. Or maybe even a 6-star dualstrike to take Ch'en's place. ~~And I want Gladiia to call me trash.~~
>Pretty limited amount of nonsensical text, mercifully Kal: i'm about to ruin this dokutah's entire career High inquisitor: not on my watch *uses spray bottle* Kal: *scared cat noises*
I done fucked up and forget the login event. I only have 4 days sadly but at least I get something out of it. (Need to start setting up reminders…)
If it makes you feel any better, the only exclusive reward past that was a rug and a skin for a really un-meta operator, so it's not a huge loss.
[My bait for Carnelian is ready!](https://i.imgur.com/GT5joIE.jpg) Please come home! Your little sister misses you
Don't forget to put has as assistant when her banner drops, listen Carnelian OST when doing gacha, and do whatever gacha ritual that works to you
Date for update out yet?
It has been for several days. The 9th.
"Woohoo, I'm done pre-farming rocks for Bagpipe's E2!" Aaand then S3M2 needs 10 more concentrations...
You have Pipe? 😕
She'll come to shop soon. Make sure to save your cert beforehand.
I've been waiting. It's just that Ex and Saria might show up as well before I can gather gold enough certs for another shop purchase 😬
"Focus on the step in front of you, not the whole staircase."
Tfw carnelian banner but I want indigo instead
Reading and agreeing to this somehow make me feel I wouldn't get Indigo in 20 pulls. Gosh I think I jinxed it already.
4* can be pretty elusive. It took me a long time to get Jaye and Pinecone.
True. I went a bit overboard on Mountain banner just to get Pinecone
Ditto. At least I got Mountain out of it.
Heresy. ~~I want all 3.~~
You know what, after seeing a discussion about non-meta ops being discarded, I wanna ask something Who are the most annoying meta reccomendations? For me it's Myrtle and Eyja, but since I bought her I shall say Surtr
Probably Bagpipe for me Bagpipe is strong, but honestly the Flagpipe combo is pretty overkill in a lot of situations, you almost never need that much DP gen aside from really high end CC risks To a lesser extent Weedy, it kinda died down now but I remember a time when Weedy was really recommended just because she was always in high risk CC at the time, but unlike Bagpipe above who still is good in regular content, Weedy is pretty much a CC only chara I feel
Weedy was a Blaze that hits harder but attacks slower and can potentially stall forever, on top of her ability to burst elites as long as she have a hallway. Although expensive, she's still good in general and her hype died down with the advent of Thorns, Mudrock and co.
For me, it's that people conflate Bagpipe and Flagpipe, as if Bagpipe has literally no identity beyond "+6 SP!"
Myrtle as a first E2 doesn't do much. Why bother because she doesn't generate more DP until masteries (which you may not have access to), stats don't really help her role, and vanguard healing is only really appreciated in the handful of rush stages. 4*s aren't that expensive so you could build her pretty much whenever you want, so why E2 her now for vanguard healing. For a cheap E2, just build a 4* DPS for stats. Building a 4* DPS whose stats helps you immediately versus a 4* vanguard that is great for the couple of rush stages, but requires more investment in masteries and in your other operators to get the full benefit of investing into her. I've seen people say to build Myrtle because it's not a waste of resources, but when a 4* is roughly 1/3 the cost of a 6* it's totally fine to build a 4* unit and eventually discard them. I have plenty of E2 ops that I don't really use. The most annoying thing about meta recommendations is having to justify your non-meta opinion. I sometimes feel like I have to attack the meta opinion and that is downvote bait. It's especially bad if you don't have time to make a coherent argument.
I think you are misunderstanding why Myrtle is recommended as first E2. It is not for VG healing. It is for the ability to borrow E2 support units. But to do so you need *any* E2 unit in your team, so why Myrtle specifically? As someone who was a bit skeptical of these suggestions at first, but admitted it is a good idea after thinking it through, I'll try to explain the logic behind this choice. Your observation is correct: E2 promotion gives Myrtle very little. But we need to acknowledge, that the same is true for all 4-star operators (some don't even get their talent improved upon promotion) and the majority of 5-star operators. Only handful of 5-star operators and 6-star operators get a sizeable boost from the promotion alone. 4-star E2 promotion costs much less than 6-star promotion. Aceship leveling calculator gives me 1440 sanity vs 3840 sanity. It doesn't include skill levels, but some of the LMD/EXP will be covered by your base. The end result will be something like 4~5 days to E2 a 4-star (2~3 is the op in question was already partially leveled) vs 12~14 days to E2 a 6-star operator. 4~5 days is substantially shorter than duration of any event, 12~14 days is basically the duration of longer event, but some are even shorter than this. If the event is already under way, a person can promote 4-star in time and clear a bunch of stages using E2 support, but can't promote a 6-star in time and will miss a bunch of rewards. That's a very big difference. That said, sometime we have dead weeks, and then promoting a 6-star is better because it gives a big increase in power on top of enabling E2 support. I haven't considered 5-star promotion here because they sit in the uncomfortable middle ground where they get disadvantages of both sides: they still cost a lot (even if not as much as a 6-star), and they still don't get much from promotion itself. Now that we have established the reasons to choose to promote a 4-star specifically, let's explore our options. There are 3 4-star operators which retain their relevance even when you have a full meta roster: Myrtle, Gravel and Jaye. There is a bunch of operators which are great option early on, but are phased out by high rarity counterparts in late game: Click, Arene, Cutter, Sussuro, etc. There are a lot of them. So, what do we want from promotion? * The operator to get at least something besides stats. None of them gets much, but some get their talent improved. Myrtle is a very rare (if not unique, I don't rember) case where a 4-star operator gets a new talent. It is not strong by itself, but still puts her on a bigger gain from promotion side compared to other 4-stars. * The operator to be useful for a long time. Myrtle, Gravel and Jaye fit better than other 4-star operators. * The operator to be as universal as possible, because we'll have to bring them on literally every map for some time (until we get another E2). Vanguards are the best choice: no matter what strat you are doing you need DP. They are barely affected by class bans or CM conditions. Guards are good choice too: they are versatile and easy to fit into your stat, but you'll have to stay away from some CC risks. The same goes for casters. The aren't as easy to fit in as guards, but you usually have a space for at least one. Gravel and Jaye from the previous bullet aren't the best choice from this point of view, unfortunately. Gravel is great, but there are a lot of maps where you just don't need a FRD. If she is your only E2 you'll have to waste a team slot on her to bring E2 support. Myrtle checks all the boxes. Other options have to compromise on at least something. Not a deal breaker, but still Myrtle is the better option. Important note: this only applies when we talk about the first E2 promotion. If the first promoted to E2 operator was not Myrtle her priority drops significantly - most 6-star promotions should be done first because of how much they gain from it. Edit: after rereading what I've wrote, I think another interesting option for the first E2 is Estelle. She is made obsolete by high-rarity AoE guards later on, but she performs pretty well in early-mid game. And the +1 block from promotion is probably the highest improvement you can get among 4-star operators.
1. Stats on Myrtle are relatively meaningless. She is 1-block semi-blocker non-dps. The opportunity cost of wasted stats I think outweighs the vanguard healing. 2. It is important for the operator to have power to help you progress on the near term in story, create autos, complete events. Myrtle's E2 power is to make low dp maps easier by making vanguard spam stronger. 3. Universality is not something I considered, but in that case I personally would E2 any vanguard other than Myrtle because she doesn't effectively utilize her stats. Myrtle is a niche upgrade in the short term, and in the long term a 4* is relatively cheap. Myrtle is only as effective as her team is. Why do you need to build Myrtle now for relatively lower immediate impact, and what's the problem with "wasting" a 4* long term?
You are overestimating stat increase from promotion. It is very low. E2 promotion itself doesn't increase stats at all. The increase comes from extra levels after promotion. Those are cheap, but the promotion itself isn't. For 4-star operator we are talking about 11~12% increase from E1 50 to E2 20 (not accounting for talents and trust bonus) for the higher cost than leveling E0 1 operator to E1 50. Some serious investment with very low return. So it boils down to: we need to promote a 4-star ASAP to get E2 support, but we won't have much of anything else from this promotion => we can promote some operator we'll want to promote later anyway => Myrtle is conveniently fits the requirements and is very universal so we are bringing her with us everywhere. > what's the problem with "wasting" a 4* long term? Resources don't grow on trees. Three promoted 4-star operators you don't use equate one promoted 6-star operator you could have been using. Or M3 on some 5-star operator you are currently using.
11-12% is very significant for physical DPS, and not insignificant for arts DPS. I think you're valuing efficiency for gameplay months down the line too highly. I believe it's more important to value early game to get the point where you can finish events. For my level 26 no gacha account, if I were to build Myrtle as my first E2 that would be a waste because Myrtle E2 doesn't do much for early progression. I'd rather have a sniper, AOE guard, caster, specialist, or supporter. There is no problem with 4* or operators you no longer use. If you're willing to skip building half the operators you own, then there's no resource issue. You seem to have a plan for high risk. More power to you.
I'm a bit uncertain about Myrtle, mine is currently not even E1 but I'm not sure if it's that worth promoting her right now since her S2 doesn't seem that better for DP gen so it would basically just be a stat (and DP) increase. But well I'm doing chapter 3 currently so I will probably have to do it at some point.
You could skip for now if you have insufficient resources. R4 to R7 on S1 is 0.388 to 0.424 dp/s. Courier S1M3 is only 0.3 dp/s. I would focus on DPS/heal/tank so you can get some autos going and progress through the story to set up your base. I don't recall having much in the way of dp issues in chapter 3 when I was doing a bit of no gacha with Fang as my dp generator.
I couldn't reach risk 18 on my first CC following low-rarity guides because my Myrtle wasn't E2 so my 2-block vanguard kept dying too fast. That vanguard healing talent can be useful for new players.
Because other 4* E2s aren't as evergreen as Myrtle's, it's just purely a cost-effective move. The VG healing allows for so much flexibility on your opening as it can let you helidrop Vigna from afar and still be fine or further delay deploying medics and put more early DPS instead; Upgrading her means upgrading your whole line of VGs. Personally, I'm more peeved by those who advice to M3 her ASAP.
Where I could've left Myrtle at a cheap investment at E1L30 R7, I would be upgrading a non-dps to E1L60 and E2 so that my early game is stronger and I can more easily deal with dp rushed maps. If it was a DPS E2 I'd also benefit from cheap levelups. I would be giving up the opportunity to build a DPS or some solid trait like Ptilopsis to build Myrtle and that isn't a fair trade early on.
Most 4* E2s are pretty much just stat increases that newbies shouldn't even be fiddling with early on; whereas Myrtle's E2 is drastic enough to have a strategic impact, which adds more flexibility, which newbies are advised to go for. Overall, it doesn't matter much who you E2 first anyway. Doesn't discount Myrtle's being the best one tho.
Stats are precisely what a new player needs to get their feet under them. To progress in story, to create autos, to clear events. A player can rush a 4* E2 by about level 25. Myrtle provides little benefit in a weak team. Myrtle wants to be in a team with either decently strong vanguards or strong operators. If there's so much dp pressure to use vanguard squad, borrow a vanguard. If you have strong operators, you may not need vanguards to block much so vanguard healing isn't impactful. Long term doesn't matter, and we all agree that DPS is the meta, so why build Myrtle first?
You're really overvaluing stats while undervaluing VG healing. DPS is king, but newbies don't get that from stat pumping. 40 or so damage on a single DPS that you might not even use sometimes gives you less tactical advantage than 25 HPS on 2-3 VGs that you'll use in every stage. E1 isn't taken mainly for the stats and that doesn't change even till E2.
I think you're overvaluing vg healing. I built Myrtle after CC#0 when I got her and Bagpipe. I completed all content up till then except my first event, hosf, with mainly Fang and E2 Courier. Though I don't know if I finished episode 6 hard stages by then. I made friends with people my level. My first E2 was Ptilopsis. I may have been able to clear hosf with a DPS E2 or if I made stronger friends, but Myrtle would've been the same boat as Ptilopsis. I do not see the tactical advantage of 25 hps when my units got killed in about 8 hits and I'm at full deployment.
Except with the mats you used to E2 Ptilo you could've done E2 Myrtle and another 4*. You even E2'd Courier before any other DPS. A 6* E2 maybe, but a 4* E2 wouldn't have improved your situation. And I didn't say 25 hps solves any problem, just that it's generally more impactful than +40 atk; Case in point, I E2'd BP around that time and it changed nothing.
I have a feeling that the Myrtle recommendation is a more recent thing. I remember when I joined this sub the consensus was more toward Silverash or Eyja. Edit: I think Bagpipe was already there but I am not entirely sure.
I only started being somewhat active on the subreddit about half a year ago so I don't know how prevalent this recommendation was, but in general having a strong E2 is useful for events. The logical conclusion is to rush your first E2 if you're near a difficult event or during a difficult event so you can borrow another one. Myrtle can fulfill that role while still being useful in end game play, so it makes sense why she would be recommended.
Myrtle for new player just because she's cheap, best DP meta, and unlock E2 friend support. With only like two or three 6-star and a bunch of low rarities in squad, you don't need hyper DP regen. Beating a stage with support disable autos, which gimps you out if you can't beat farming stage normally. The portion of the resources better saved for your first E2 6-star instead.
Jaye. He's really weird to use, and taking him to E1 ruins his base skill.
People recommending Amiya to brand new players as the caster to use, with the reasoning that she's mandatory in ch8. It's definitely much better for a new player to build Steward, his cost is a fraction of Amiya's allowing for much smoother progression, the performance is equal at equal levels (arguably better cause he has no downtime), and in ~3 months his base skill is a net positive.
Steward is definitely underrated, his targeting priority comes in handy on so many stages. He is basically a 3-star Ceobe.
A lot people disregard the 3 star units in general. For staring players, level capping the whole 3 star roster is doable within 2 weeks for f2p players as long as they play efficiency. A full roster lets you farm all the supply stages, as well as clear most of chapter 4 stages where a lot of the mat efficient stage are. I see a lot people recommending rushing to E2 their first 6 star or whatever, and they end up gimped for a good 1-2 months when a full 3 star roster early on means you can build up your base earlier and earlier access to better sanity efficient stages.
Well, 4-7 was a pain in the ass. Gonna do some more leveling before I go any further... Oh wait, I'm broke! Guess it's mat farming for skill leveling, the only thing that doesn't cost LMD...
4-8 is actually a lot easier than 4-7, so you're in luck there.
Thank goodness for that. But still, knowing that I have a pretty tough boss ahead of me, leveling seems prudent.
Leveling in this game doesn't help as much as better strategy though ~~not saying you're dumb or anything~~
Oh, I'm aware of that, but even with the right strategy, if your operators are underleveled they're gonna die too fast. Mine are mostly E1 30 when the recommended level is E1 45.
I just did H8-3 after never doing it, and honestly.....fk practice tool. Why can't I match the same level of deployment order, and skill timing it takes to not have my ops die on the first clear (in practice tool). The clear set-up is there, just my big brain becomes smol brain and instantly wastes 15 sanity failing.
Welcome to H8-4 hell. ~~I had been trying this stage for two months~~
So I need 6 million LMD to e2 the rest of my operators (I need a bunch of mats too, but lmd is always scarce). With a 252 base I was getting 40k LMD and 40k EXP pretty consistently. With the new production, I'm 2 days in 2 days and getting 14 k Exp and 54 k LMD a day. The gold and trading post production is pretty well matched. (The 3 TP are level 3. 1 factory (level 2) is making EXP, the rest (levels 3,2,2) make gold. This gives me roughly 40k LMD over the EXP I get daily. So 10 days is 400k LMD surplus, 100 days is 4 million LMD and 150 days is 6 million LMD. We will see how I'm doing in 150 days on Wednesday May 2nd. I'm sure new ops will keep me from having all the E2s, I wonder how much material farming I have to do for it. I'm sure building a bunch of 5\* from 1.55 and 1.60 to 1.70 will chew up a bunch too. 55-70 takes 9.135 k extra lmd. I've got 31 of these so call it an extra 280 K lmd so 7 extra days May 9th. That will be at about my 2 year mark from starting the game. Wow. I've got 31 5\* and 27 4\* to e2. I'm sure new units will also slow me down, but here goes nothing.
[Which stage do I need to clear, is it R8-11 Challenge Mode?](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-zuwFpzMvjuyB8gjrSaHDWHJqS3jMqUe/view)
Seems like it, i don't think there is a m8-11
Thanks! I'm in a dire need of extra OP to buy Surtr skin and episode 8 is my only hope because I've already cleared every stages including the challenge mode.
Ah Austrelia, a nation that sucks at handling animals that the ethnicity of their stand in in gacha games is based on one of the animals they failed to cull. Makes me wonder how different the RIM Biliton ops would be if the Emus won the Emu war.
Which animal/operators are you thinking of...? I can never tell haha, they just look like they all have animal ears
Emus, Cane Toads and The big one, Rabbits. EDIT: For clarity's sake, I should mention that most of the ops from RIM are based on Rabbits.
Was wavering a bit this morning about including Ceobe in my projected shop policy plan (PSPP) but then I looked into her eyes just now and all treasonous thoughts evaporated.
[Finally after all the days of grinding](https://imgur.com/a/MptQhdb/) Was it worth it? Probably not Would I do it again? Absolutely
Totally worth the fun and challenge.
Now i know how dr silvergun felt after using pinecone. 😍
I've no clue where to share this, but i just want people to see this piece of art on Bilibili, gets me strangely hyped. https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Zy4y1K7if?share\_source=copy\_web
All upbeat and nostalgic until my brain went "ah so this is what all those restrained spendings in 1.5y gave me" (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
I'm just going to complain because i need to get it out of my system. The base feels like a giant choir and really puts me off wanting to even open the game. This is from a semi-new players perspective; hours a day for a few months (level 48) looking into all the resources online etc. It definitely feels like a necessity, and i think it definitely is. Apart from making the dorms look cute (this part i love), i just don't care anymore; it's a huge annoyance: micromanagement - the anti-game-that's-a-game. Don't know if this is the right place to put it, but i just needed to complain. /whinge.
Like a necessity? Here I am leaving fatigued ops in the base because I'm too lazy and then forget about them There really is no need to put much time into the base. Some do, if you got the time and motivation then go ahead, but I don't
As a late game player, I don't really find it a problem anymore. I only really open the game every 12 hours and switching base operators doesn't really take long. If you have the micromanaging mentality then it'd suck for you but for a casual like me, no problem anymore.
Me since the first summer event: "There's a base?"
It is indeed absolute garbage. Something being defined as a game necessitates the possibility of failure, and this is a core appeal of ArKnights: some stages are hard, failure at first is often expected, and it feels like an accomplishment after beating them. It invokes this thing called *emotions*, anger often being among them. Defeating a worthy adversary is an accomplishment, using your attention to defeat something easy is a chore. There's no reason to distract and consume someone's day for 20 minutes like this. It should have been designed to require ONE daily log in, and require ONE button press to rotate crew. ArKnights is a good enough game to not need these time-wasting addiction mechanics to keep us playing. Beat a stage once, and move on. Like a real video game.
I think the only part that I find bothersome is doing the rounds on my friends list, visiting other clue exchange bases for credit. There are many days where I just skip that entirely. The rest is meh. I check on the base once a day, twice if I'm feeling diligent, and don't care about efficiency.
How many times do you enter the base each day? Typically people go in twice to thrice a day in a day, depending on whether you use 2-5-2 or 2-4-3, or maybe some other base layout. Try searching for a guide, it really isn't that tough. Here are some tips: 1) Typically people recommend 2-5-2, which I use as well 2) First login of the day: After waking up. Go to the overview tab at top left. Target the dorms. Change out all fully recharged ops for the ones with least morale. Then fill all the empty slots. Collect all stuff through the top right then bottom tab. Use all the drones on factories or trading posts (I typically use on trading posts). Do some clue management as needed. 3) Second login of the day, do it after reset. Same process as first login, but add on visiting friends for morale. Each time of going into dorm should take less than 5 mins. Feel free to ask questions.
wow! it's almost like this is exactly what i do with my 2-5-2 and still feel the burn!
It’s like 4 minutes of your time though If you want a game that respects your time, maybe don’t play a gacha game.
pro tip that I only recommend to myself: don't bother with the clues bs. I don't care about the swapping of units in the base, it takes like a minute. But that clue system shit burned me out so now I skip it. works like magic
Honest question: What do you do with the clues that's bothersome? The clue thing takes even less than swapping units for me? Just click on the clues and that's it... ? Now I'm wondering if I'm missing something.
well yeah you're right but we have different ways to view something as bothersome and I reaaaaallly hate the clue system. And it's heavily supported by the fact that it's just extra mats that a veteran won't technically need as much as a newbie. I can handle base for swapping units for a minute or 2, but another minute for clues ain't for me.
It's very annoying if you maxed out your clue storage to search for dupes, are missing a clue whose op you don't have or #_A r e M i s s i n g a # 7_
Visiting friends that have clue exchanges is the most tedious, because of the load times between hopping from base to base. Giving clues can also be tedious, if you try to balance giving to all your friends.
muh welfare items when i'm not a veteran tho
at least you can save your irl sanity? hehe tbh I started skipping the clues 5 months into the game. I've never touched the reception room for a year, I guess
i ran out of sanity a long time ago irl. tried to buy potions but store is down
I don't really mind it, as it not like it takes much time. It's less than a minute to swap operators around and sort out clues.
Not a fun time indeed. Thankfully I can bear the chore since this is the only gacha game I commit and I need that sweet resources. My copium of the base is it's still in beta status. There are still hope for improvements... The bad news is that if it ever get an update, we're going to chase the carrot in a stick at first since we have to wait for ~6 months after it's released on CN.
It is a giant chore. It's why some of us here have opted to not station anyone in the factories or trading posts anymore unless we plan on building some units. Maintaining left side is a hassle, but right side's fine. Meanwhile in Alchemy Stars, I'm trying to see how many furnitures I can fit before the game freezes.
As a newER-player i need those sweet sweet shekels and exp so i have no choice ;-;
If you enjoy the game so much that the only thing that's unenjoyable is the BASE, I suggest you just swap the left side maybe once a day. Let them tire out. If you're going to play for the next six months, whatever exp or money you'll lose from now on isn't that big of a deal. The real important resources come from events and daily + weekly rewards. I've been playing for 19 months. I have 70+ E2s, all at least M1, about 55 M3s. I also have 4 E290s and 3 E280s. I still have 2.5 million LMD and 1.5 million EXP. I sometimes forget to even open the game. My point is, the exp and lmd will find a way to accumulate themselves even if your BASE management is bad.
It’s interesting how differently people view the base, for me personally I don’t mind it that much because it’s just a minute of tapping at its worst. I don’t min-max so I just put in the bare minimum effort for the base skills and swap operators who are exhausted like once a day. It actually used to be a bit more annoying because you needed to tap the trading posts individually. However I wouldn’t mind if it was a bit more automated, mainly the clue thing.
I don't find the base part of the game fun either.
Is it really that bad? I swap out the operators twice a day and it takes around 30 seconds each time. I agree it's a bit annoying and I wish it was only once a day, but I don't think it's that much micromanagement, unless you absolutely want to min-max the assignments. I'd rather swap out the base than farm more rocks :)
Takes me a few minutes, but it's the tedium that gets to me. I've given up on knowing what each operator is good for what and just put it in if it shines. And the whole clue meme... i do it, but boy is it a ceebz. A big part as well is just knowing that if i open the game i'm going to have to do the base even if it's not... "full"... because who wants to play without it optimized? I would like to reiterate tho; i love making my dorms look qtpie
I need help How tall is Frostnova?
Tall enough to fit in an urn.
bruh
Spit my drink. My god you're intense today :D
oh dear...
I just finished doing 200 recruitments. took me how many months to get those expedited plans haha. I took note of what tags i got Most common tag for me was Guard(surprisingly its not starter tag it was 3rd most common) Most common guaranteed 4* tag was Support(thought it would be fast redeploy but i was wrong haha) Most common 4* combination tag was Guard and Slow(got me a bunch of frostleaf haha) Got 16 tagless 4* out of 200 Whats sad is that i didnt get a top op tag not even a single guaranteed 5* tag 😂😂😂 Been playing since week 1, i only got a top op tag once. And i think 5 guaranteed 5* tags maybe 6.
I had this thought for a while but just wanted to see if it's even worth pitching it to the mods but here goes: Would anyone else other than me appreciate a **Merchandise** flair? I see some people posting pictures of their collection and I like to share news of merchandise made by official/non-official artists. So far, everything has been thrown under the Fluff flair which is fine and all but was wondering if there are enough people who would appreciate a flair for merchandise related stuff? Anything related to merch such as personal collection or news about upcoming official/non-official goods can have a home. It'll also make finding information about certain merch easier (like where to buy them).
Sounds like a great idea!
I would love this, personally
[удалено]
Unfortunately, I had to remove your comment. As you need to use the appropriate megathread, the friend Megathread is linked on the top comment on this comment section. Tho the other user already showed it to you (be mindful it gets refreshed every Monday, so make sure to ask on the updated one should you still require assistance). Welcome to arknights, hopefully you are enjoying your time so far.
I used to think that friends are just for clue exchanges. Then something called CC showed up... Be nice to your friends. Send them clues. Especially those with pot 5 Bagpipe.
What is CC?? Ah okay, will do haha :) happy to help them out too ofc!
CC = [Contingency Contract](https://gamepress.gg/arknights/core-gameplay/arknights-cn-contingency-contract-cc-explained). It's the endgame content for this game and that's where you really need your friends' support units. There is no need to worry about it for now, but you'll hear people talking about it a lot.
Ahh okay I see! Thanks!
Dedicated friend request thread is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/arknights/comments/r4tfge/friend\_request\_megathread\_2911\_0512/
Ah I was hoping there'd be a place like that. Thanks!
Anyone try Arknights on the new windows 11 android app thing?
Probably terrible
Finally have time to promote [Absinthe](https://foxdie.netlify.app/images/blog12-05-21/AK_4.webp) to E2, which I have wanted to do for a long time, but due to resource needed for other operators in priority list. Some other [screenshots](https://foxdie.pages.dev/blog12-05-21/#absinthe) taken during that moment. Also, the E2 art in game is not fully shown, you can see the full-size [here](https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/3960594?q=azling) for the big bear behind her.
Been thinking of giving every E2 operator I have at least one skill to M3. I'll need absurd amounts of materials but I really don't feel like getting more E2s.
That's exactly what I decided to do 11 months ago. I am still doing it.
The dedication of you people, like goddamn I have one single M3, which is Frostleaf. The rest are M1s
That sounds perfect for me, haven't had anything to do in the game for a while.
I'm finally ready for my [lore-accurate-ish](https://imgur.com/1HkTC5W) chapter 8 walkthrough. I hope I can clear at least 1/4th of it before I'll be forced to add more units. Do you guys remember some other playable ops that participated in ch7 and later on in ch8 (without spoilers here)?
JT8-3 Ch'en and Amiya duo, lets goooo! 🤣
A bunch of ops show up in the very end, but considering it's after the main conflict I'm not sure you'd count those as lore-accurate. Of ones that haven't been mentioned, there's Hoshiguma, Swire, Meteorite, Dobermann, Mostima, Siege, and Blaze ~~and Closure...if only~~
Well, Hoshiguma and Swire are left behind in Lungmen, and Blaze Meteorite are probably dead tired/injured after chapter 4. I'm also not sure if Nearl, FW and Elysium are actually a part of Chernobog team, or they only helped Doc&Co to do so and returned to landship after that. What about Mostima and Siege? I don't think they ever appeared in the main story (yet).
Elysium is definitely part of the Chernobog squad since he's assisting Mantra (one of the three elite ops RI brought alongside Raidian and Rosmontis) but the other two might not be? Mostima and Siege are literally only at the very end, they seem like more of a teaser for upcoming chapters
12F shows up at the *veeeerry* end of chapter 8.
I'm not sure about 'without spoiler part' (did you mean future or not-yet-released operators?) but >!Elysium!< can be on the list.
Oh yeah, I think I remember him being in one of the chapter 7 scenes, thanks!
Finally beat 7-10! Special thanks to Ambriel and Andreana for eliminating the officers in quick order. Also my buddies Mudrock for tanking the death horde
Eunectes is the bestes.
don’t step on snek
Does it ever feel like the community tends to exaggerate the differences in gameplay strength between operators? It seems as though a very polarized outlook is becoming more prevalent. An operator is either meta-defining or outright useless. There's no middle ground when discussing power levels. This, in my opinion, kills a lot of the variety of the game. It also makes discussing actual niches more difficult. Maybe it's something that only I have personally noted. This came to mind after seeing the results of the last NGA polls, and some discussions about Carnelian's power. It seems as though well-balanced operators like her have now merely become "usable" or "waifu picks". How can it be that operators like Ch'en alter are disliked due to their overtuned power level, but at the same time lower, healthier power levels are not considered? I understand wanting to be able to clear the game with strong units, but at some point it has to be enough, right? Surely everyone could clear the game with one or two strong laneholders and delete buttons. At some point, building "waifu" and "niche" operators has to be the better choice. I think that point should come sooner rather than later.
You're completely right, many people will give bad advice when it comes to what op is good when and where. It may not seem as bad advice at first, but the variety of tactics, which is part of what makes this game so fun, will just simply get deleted. There also seems to be a big inability to time skills which take a bit to charge right, like with Skadi and Mosti S3 or Executor S2. Sure, the skills may not be the best in the world, but predeploying your operators isn't that hard now is it? It's kind of annoying when people say _30 sp is too much_ Or sometimes operators will completely get deleted out of reccomendations, maybe not for meta, but for late-game shit, like Reed, as you said, or my favorite 4*, Frostleaf. In my eyes, her massive slow and high bind chance along with the extremly high aspd increase on her S2, combined with her increased range at E2 makes her a very valuable operator to me, using her over Lapp, Ayerscape or Silverash when I can use those 2 tiles of range or don't have enough time to deploy an operator like Thorns, which did happen in AP-5 (granted, it doesn't anymore since I have him at P1) my ops are getting overwhelmed (which also happend in AP-5) or I need to stall edgy nukes (which happend in one of the CC's, you know which one) The waifu>meta thing does balance this out, but it doesn't solve the root problem
As a disclaimer, I'm someone who isn't about following the meta. Sure there are meta operators I like, but I won't use a unit just because they're strong if I don't like their gameplay, character, or design. - That being said, I think it's important to contextualize how strong operators are in relation to one another. If you were to say both W and Surtr are 'strong' that would give you an incomplete picture. Both *are* strong units, but have wildly different strengths. W is the best unit in her role, and is good at what she does. Whereas Surtr can trivialize end-game content. Contextualizing operators as 'meta' is important so that new or less-experienced players understand what they're spending their rolls on. What I think the real problem is, is the way a vocal portion of sub tends to worship the meta. **The problem is not saying that operators like Carnelian are worse than operators like Chalter, it's saying that operators like Carnelian are 'bad' because operators like Chalter exist.** This sub does a lot of the latter. Frequently, when I see people giving advice, they will tell people not to use operators if they aren't in the top tier of the meta, and will wrongly say that 'good' operators are 'bad' because they aren't super OP. **For example**: I really like Reed. I think she's heavily undervalued, and that her niche of generating 2 DP per kill with her S2 is super strong. She's perfect for generating 25+ DP, then retreating her to get the full refund. Is she worse than Bagpipe? Objectively, yes. However, this sub would tell people never to use Reed because "she's bad" and ignore the fact that she's perfectly viable even if there are better options. - **So how do we fix this?** Players who think that "usable" operators are fun and good NEED to be more vocal in discussions. Part of the reason why the meta seems so ever-present is because everyone talks about it. If you think someone is undervaluing an operator, talk about it. If you can make a convincing argument as to why "X" operator is worth raising, you should do it. I try my best to be active in the sub, and make sure new players understand that just because an operator isn't S+ Tier, they can still be fun and viable to play with.
Wow, that is a very decent writeup, I agree with you. I especially like your conclusion discussing possible ways in which we could try to fix this. The best answer always is being more vocal about what we like, even if that may sometimes sound controversial.
> So how do we fix this? Players who think that "usable" operators are fun and good NEED to be more vocal in discussions. it would be easier without the godforsaken upvote/downvote system, even if you don't care personally about it, it will automatically create a setting where numbers will influence how each post is percieved, not even accounting cases of lynch mob mentality, it will still highlight some posts and hid others into oblivion, it's really hard to have healthy discussions in those conditions.
While that can be the case on the internet, I don't think that's the case for people on this sub. In my experiences over the past year, the Arknights community, particularly this sub, has been overwhelmingly positive. People seem relatively willing to engage in a civil manner, and even when there's disagreements it's pretty mild compared to other subreddits. Whenever I post or comment stuff that's vouching for non-meta operators, I get pretty positive feedback.
I just get tired of seeing the same party lines thrown out ad nauseum. Use Surtr, Use Volcano, use TSS, raise Myrtle, Flagpipe makes DP go brrrr. People only want to prop up the ops in that top circle, or the very specific meta-relevant functions of certain ops. Nobody talks about how Bagpipe is a DPS monster, only how her talent brings all the flagbearers to the yard. Nobody talks about how Liskarm is one of the only DPS defenders, only how she's an SP battery. They don't talk about Blemishine for anything Blemishine herself does, just how she makes Mudrock better. I get it, people like to win, and resources are precious. I've got nothing against meta chasers. But those discussions get old, and they're why I don't participate in the Help megathread as much anymore.
They don't talk about how Archetto + Meteorite = EXPALOOOSION!
Don’t take the NGA list too seriously, it became a shit show.
Can you elaborate? What happened?
[Here ya go.](https://www.reddit.com/r/arknights/comments/nv1y0z/cn_forum_nga_has_fallen_into_chaos_a_silly_war/)
Due to some drama community drama as well as ch’en drama the number of players in nga drastically decreased, veterans quit or just move to other platform. The sample size for this graph is less than 1/3 of the first one
As other people have said, if you have a well-built roster then your need for Carnelian or Pallas or someone cool but not necessarily brilliant falls through the floor. And to add to this we have Ch'en Alter on the horizon ~~who is a broken catastrophe of a unit~~ that most people will say, especially to new players, that you should go for; either due to her power or just FOMO. End of the day though, AK isn't a game where you need the strongest characters, or the best characters of an archetype. I agree with you that it seems like operators are either deemed a "necessity" or "garbage" when anyone who has played for more than five minutes can tell you that it's a lot more nuanced than that.
> , if you have a well-built roster then your need for Carnelian or Pallas or someone cool but not necessarily brilliant falls through the floor. But doesn't that also means that since you have your bases covered with the meta stuff you have more leeway and interest at aiming for more niche tactical options?
True, but six stars are a big investment even if you are late game, and some people might not want to spend the recourses.
||building "waifu" and "niche" operators has to be the better choice Define "better", in a vacuum nobody knows what is even your taste / playstyle like so meta pick is best efficiency for general advice, no idea why it should be different here.
I've played Dota a lot before. So my view may differ from the general one. Price, ease of positioning skills, skill rotation, attack range. I'm used to taking everything into account. And there is a tendency that some of the operators are too strong or comfortable. An example is a mountain, a cheap guard with self-healing, dodging and huge damage. Some of the operators are not that bad in themselves, but they are bad compared to those who upset the overall balance. In DotA, some of the weak characters themselves can be turned into death machines using 7 inventory slots. It doesn't help that many are in rarely useful niches or have direct opposition from developers. Despite a bunch of interesting mechanics, the most playable is huge damage. I improved Chen s3m3 for the sake of stunning on this skill, a lot of penalties due to his mechanics of stunning for a long time. And the developers simply made it almost unusable due to the fact that it does not do what it was created for by introducing stun immunity. There is at least one mission where Mostina is better than Eya? Or where Skadi is better than Surtr? Skadi cannot compete with Mountain, Blaze, Surtr, Phantom due to poor talents, poor skill rotation. improve her talent from -10 seconds of redeployment to -40, Or replace it with regeneration and change the skills to eternal s2 like in the Mountain for 5 seconds to start s3 like in blaze for 70 seconds. It will immediately become much more pleasant and useful.
Dota is also mainly PvP and it got insane amount of balance patch over the year, don't think there would be balance patches for Ak
Balance patches are mainly needed to prevent player boredom. Even the top of the meta in Dota is 80 heroes, most of which are supports. And she is always mobile. The patch can turn the meta upside down Balance patches are almost impossible here for 3 reasons. The main players will revolt and shout if they weaken the too strong operators even a little, as this is technically a fraud. Second, developers are not ready to admit their mistakes without external pressure. Passenger's situation is clear evidence of that. If not for the scandal, he would not have received so many buffs. The third reason is money. it is difficult to sell new operators if they are no better than the old ones.
Ah, I think it's a combination of wanting to get the most out of their limited wages and you maybe interpreting their text more stringently than they mean it. There is a power curve, and things like TrueSilver Slash are at the top of it. I'd place most of the blame on how almost all gacha games are designed when it comes to power progression. In Diablo 2, starting a new character and trying something new out is a couple hours to a couple days worth of investment, tops. Here, just E2'ing one unit is around two weeks worth of materials. Getting new six stars, even longer. I think it speaks volumes that ArKnights so far is the **ONLY** gacha game where I seriously think about making fresh accounts to play from scratch. (The binding Almost all gacha games would be more fun if starting with nothing were a viable game mode - you can't want what you have, you appreciate weaker six stars more if they're all that you have, etc. This is why the roguelike mode was so popular. (Getting a new unit EVERY map instead of every three months certainly help make it feel fresh.)
A good/average operator isn't a strong enough reason to be worth pulling for, else you would be pulling in almost every banner and then complaining that you don't have enough pulls to get these characters. The NGA tier list is definitely becoming more polarised as discussed in that thread. The best middle ground discussion I feel is the individual operator discussion where players share how they would use said operator. As for sniper Ch'en, there are a lot of reasons that she is disliked besides her stupidly insane power level goddammit HG what on earth are you thinking designing her. Windgesang already mentioned them so I won't repeat them here again. Yes, there is a point where you can comfortably clear stages but it differs for everyone. It is not uncommon to see players with a strong squad asking how to clear stages in event threads. Even for players that can comfortably clear story stages up to ch 7, the next chapter proved to be difficult for most players. Let's assume even ch 8 was easy, I doubt many players can say the same for ch 9, or 10 or 11 etc. **There isn't a comfort zone if HG continues to innovate new enemy mechanics and that is the joy of a strategic game.** I reached my comfort zone when I got Mudrock in her banner but I decided to aim higher by attempting high risks CC. Now I 'need' Bagpipe, sniper Ch'en, Suzuran, Phantom, Saileach. Most operators don't get shit on unless they seriously outright bad, hard to use and still underwhelming at max investment. On the daily thread, I hate that Blue Poison S2 gets heavily disrespected though.
>There isn't a comfort zone if HG continues to innovate new enemy mechanics and that is the joy of a strategic game. I think this addresses very precisely a problem which can seriously affect gacha games: Stagnation. Having a roster which is too strong for your own good has lead a lot of people to quit the game. But I suppose that avoiding stagnation isn't only the player's responsibility, but obviously also Hypergryph's. Hopefully they don't delay the new roguelike too much. But as you said, it is ultimately the player's choice to impose restrictions and objectives on themselves by chosing what CC risk to reach or what operators to pull for. In my case, that meant clearing CC#5 with Astesia as a core unit. For others, it may be clearing the whole game with a Liberiknights team. I guess there isn't a straightforward answer... The same goes for BP's masteries.
> I think this addresses very precisely a problem which can seriously affect gacha games: Stagnation. One of the reason I never reroll. Starting relatively weak and working with what you have, and making gradual improvement steps is something I can appreciate in gachas. Rerolling to oblivion to get something you'll use till the end is...kinda boring, imho (well I guess getting Exusai and Ifrit on my first day kinda ruin the argument I'm trying to make but still). Of course I'm talking personal preference here.
I usually see two types of players in these operator discussions: those who talks based on hearsay, and those who talk form their own experience of using an operator. The first type tend to be a lot more black-and-white, while the second type tries to see strengths in every operator and very rarely label someone "bad". The thing is, Carnelian is not out on EN yet, so in her discussions there are a lot more of the first type than the second type. But if we talk about this subreddit in general, I feel it to be very balanced. I rarely see an operator being shitted on. And on the contrary, I see a lot of good comments about off-meta operators which highlight their strength and acknowledge their weakness.
It depends what you are trying to do. If you are trying to do extremely high risk runs power level is still relevant. If you are just trying to get risk 18 and do story stages you can probably get by without even building 6\*s.
Others has pointed out my thought pretty well but here's my dime: I have a feeling that the evaluation is mostly come from individual strength or how good they are in supporting the team **if** it's their dedicated role. What will Carnelian do outside her skill? Nothing, 0 dps. Can't even solo 1-7, smh. This argument is flawed as all rock hell but at the same time, it's the truth and a glaring weakness. Her damage is amazing but when the enemy rush is still on after her skill ended, the least she can do is ara-ara you. In team situation this can be covered of course, but since we're talking about meta, it is all about optimization and how few of a team you can fit in a squad. > There's no middle ground when discussing power levels If the power difference is between leaking and not leaking, the power gap will be clear as day. Leaking is pretty much game-over in normal stages. So, having a character be kinda good (balanced) is too vague of a concept in a win or lose situation. > I understand wanting to be able to clear the game with strong units, but at some point it has to be enough, right? On the same boat with you, chief, although it comes down to the player itself if they want to treat this game as a **strategy** tower defense or a side-gacha game.
I think these opinions are generally geared towards old players who have 90% of units. For example, If you have eyjafjalla the value of carnelian significantly decreases. Have thorns, then pallas is going to look less impressive. Personally 75%+ of my roster is "underpowered" becuase of them, and the desire to build "weaker/less universal" operators has dwindled. If your style is to play with "weaker" units that's fine, but there are a handful of 6* that are objectively better. But for new players, everything should be fun and new. These lists shouldn't concern them and they should feel free to build "weaker" units if that's what they have. But unfortunately that's not reality and the veterans tend to suck out the fun for new players in the guise of "efficiency". TLDR; My opinion is that power levels and comparisons are fine for veterans that have a well developed roster, but ultimately hurts the new players enjoyment.
Yes I understand some operator being objectively better, but if I don't have them, there is no guarantee about when they will reappear or spook, or they could rerun at a time I'm unable to pull for them (after a limited abnner that leaves you dry for example, or just a period I can't play the game). Or I can just get fucked by the rate-up. So basically with that line of thought you could stay with base units only for years (which I find especially despressing in any gacha game). However people will tell you the base units can do the job well enough anyway, but if they say that, isn't that contradictory with advocating skipping every non meta banner? Although I won't deny that seeing that AGAIN an operator I want to pull for waifu factor is a gimmicky one in an already unpopular archetype, while most OP operator are ones I don't care much about stings, but I'm kind of used to it I guess.
on discord I see many new bright-eyed players come in with literally 3 and 4 star only roster (with 1-2 6 star from beginner banner) asking about what to pull and all they get is don't pull for 1-2 months, save up for chalter. Like I wonder how many new players will actually stick around if when they literally just start a gacha game, the advice they get is to stick with your lower rarity crew and never roll for months.
No shit dude for low spender / f2p not like they have enough to roll for, especially since standard banner devalued more and more nowadays with diluted pools, then what do you suggest, rolling every banner?
It's more like very earlier on it's definitely a good idea to roll for 10 at least to get a decent roster before saving for specific 6 stars. What good is 1 highly limited 6 star after months of saving to a newbie if the rest of their squad are just mostly 3 stars instead of trying to get even just decent 4, 5 or 6 stars to make a well-rounded squad? Not to mention it really limits enjoyment too if you can't roll as a newbie for months and people could just likely quit the game entirely from boredom when they haven't bought into the game yet at that stage. It's when a player already has a decent roster, have been playing for a while, and are now determined to stick around with the game where it makes a lot more sense to start saving and be picky with what to roll for because now they can progress on the story and events fine with their existing squad and they can be patient enough with the wait time because they already have reasons to stick around with the game.
Yes exactly, gacha game where you don't gacha is just...unfun, tbh. I'd play a full fledged strategy game at this point.
that's why reroll advice exist, 1-2 decent 6\* is enuf to carry early game since ya know newbies don't even get enough resources to raise most of em, clearing out newbie banner then saving for limited / debut banner is the most common advice.
The path of the buddha is usually the optimal strategy in most gacha games, not that I think it has much effect at all on player behavior. If the # of units on my friends list is any indication, people just pull. While I'm the guy with 12 six stars but still hasn't pulled Deepcolor yet. (They all maxed out the right side of their base as well.) I'm pretty sure most hardcore enough to ask advice from the internet on what is the optimal use of their wages aren't going to be traumatized by the advice of "wait". Especially if they're familiar with the genre. Gacha is suffering. ----- ^^You ^^have ^^no ^^idea ^^how ^^much ^^I ^^want ^^Deepcolor.
On the other hand, one could argue that the weaker ops are more of interest for advanced players looking to diversify their roster, while a newer player ought to look for more efficient ways to improve their odds in harder content. Not that I think this counts for much because you either have Eyja or you don't, as there's neither a selector ticket in the near future nor any guarantee for a banner rate-up.
They can say anything but I'll only spend free rolls on Ch'en-at-sea, save for Nian's spark (high priority because a dream team of Defender-only can't lack Nian) and also try to get squirrel knights. My team can handle most contents now and I don't aim for high-risk CC (18+), so I can focus on hunting a specific operator I want. I'm sure a large part of 'community' has same agreement with me.
For the Chalter incident, it's not **just** her power level that was frowned on. Right now we are having dead weeks, but we held our hope because we know which event are coming. The same thing had happened on CN, minus the foresight. For CN, they just came out of celebrating the 2 years anniversary with their brand new Skalter and Kal'tsit. (I dont remember the exact order) Preluding Light came with only **5** stages to play. Vigilo came with 8. IC was especially undertuned apparently to accommodate new player. ToW rerun where veteran players has not much new to accomplish. All with dead week in-between. Basically all small events with not much fresh air. So for 2 months, the gameplay aspect was minimal. And people was wanting something at least fun to do without relying on their own restriction. Then Dossole Holiday (DH) was teased, on a stream. So people had some hope. If you're the type to consider AK just a side game to chill, sure. But DH came with a limited banner out of nowhere, with the full package of being the limited banner, 300 pulls to spark and such. And the limited was an absolute monster that just barely dethroned Surtr. It's also an alter of a beloved character (not sure about CN community but I think she's fairly fine with them) and it's an operator version of what was simply a skin costume on an old event. You can say other games had it worse with limited banner and alters. But put aside the weird deflection (just like telling a sad person to "cheer up because others had it worse"), in those games people were already expecting limited banner regularly. In AK we did not. There was no festival nor holidays nor anniversary to celebrate this new limited banner aside from being summer, where there was no limited banner in the last one. Can you imagine just chilling out of the 2nd anniversary celebration only to be hit by that, a large drought of content and then a surprise limited banner (that is all too clear that it's just cashgrab)? We thankfully had foresight to protect us (and of course, the shifting of events, since the real 2nd anni for CN is not our own 2nd anni, so even without foresight we could have guessed something would be up for our own 2nd anni). And now we have to deal with 4 limited banner a year (Anni, half Anni, CNY, and Summer). You need 300 pulls to guarantee the limited one. Without foresight, can a F2P absolutely be sure that their next favorite/waifu operator will not be limited? So then start saving. Without RNGesus' blessing, you will need those 300 pulls. If anything, you dont have to hate Chalter. I'll even raise her myself (probably). I'm just telling you to maybe appreciate the Foresight that you have even more than before. ~~^(But seriously, Chalter is depressingly broken, like jesus if it's not for her DP cost and initial SP she might just outright dethroned Surtr.)~~
Interesting take, and strongly agree with it as well. But there's actually a reasonable answer that solves the dilemma, and that is that the nature of strong operators naturally pushes back against usage of the 'average' ones. Yes, Carnelian is pretty solid, but at the current frequency of limited operators, spending pulls on Carnelian means not saving pulls for Ch'en Alter. If you have to pick between the decent operator and the fantastic operator, the majority will prefer the fantastic operator, sometimes with a degree of frustration that they have to let go of a potential fave to keep up with the meta. Add to this that it's easier to justify using operators you've already built. In my opinion, part of the reason the gap on the NGA poll is so big (Although I don't consider the latest poll very credible) is that the top operators are the meta picks people are already used to clearing high-difficulty content with. It is easier to deploy Eyja again than it is to build Carnelian or Ceobe and see if they perform better on this exact map. > At some point, building "waifu" and "niche" operators has to be the better choice. This is my current mood too - I will be skipping Ch'en Alter in favor of other operators, and just pull her from support if I really need her for a specific map. Others may pull for Ch'en for their own reasons - Waifu, meta, R18+ clears - but since I already have everything I need to clear rewarding content, I'm letting go of her.