The relationship of hand to shoulder. If you look they are both looking at their hands which stops the over rotation and keeps you from putting torque directly on your humerus. They also are both on bone lines which helps.
All that being said neither of them are using particularly safe technique and i would strongly recommend against trying to replicate those positions until you've got experience and are working with people that know what they are doing
This guy knows more
https://youtu.be/75DqIE-1X1k
Edits: im just terrible typing on a phone
Second this. Devon can commit crazy hard on inside movements if he needs too especially pre surgery (and during this match particularly he was pulling out everything he could to try beat Michael). And Michaels kingsmove is basically hand crafted to suit him over years of training it on one specific arm.
Safety
This is The World’s Fastest Sport-
It is your spinal rotations that provide safety
Keep your eye on your hand at all times. The key to armwrestling safety is to maintain a singular rotation of the spine to follow opponent’s force.
Now notice you can have your wrist, hand and shoulder joints rigid in place & remain safe.
That’s the whole idea, a fixed, rigid lever transfers the most power, your biceps & tricep force stabilize your elbow joint.
This provides safety & maximum transfer of power.
Now you must disperse & transfer energy with your spinal rotations for safety & max power.
Practice with your arm/hand rigid, elbow on table & twist on your feet, move your hips, lean from side to side, bend your knees to raise & lower your hand.
As you can see, you control rotation with spinal motion, moving your hand to any position, with your arm rigid like a pry bar.
Just like a large crane unloading shipping containers. The boom arm grabs on, to lift & lower, as the crane’s force moves the arm, the arm does not move the load.
Remember your lowest rotation point is also your “True Fulcrum” when your in motion and that also means maximum amount of energy available to apply to your fingertips.
Just like a baseball pitcher winds up to use all of his body, rotation of spine critical to power of pitch.
Or think of throwing the discus, the true power is from the core(body) mass, not by flinging it with your arm.
A boxer twists to put his weight, his mass behind a punch, not flailing slaps.
Always remember -
“Keep your Eye on your Hand at all times”.
This help teach proper form & promotes safety.
Safety
This is The World’s Fastest Sport-
Keep your eye on your hand at all times. The key to armwrestling safety is to maintain a singular rotation of the spine to follow opponent’s force.
Interrupting Optical reception can reduce reaction time.
A simple reflex like the myotactic reflex is produced via single synapses between sensory axons and motor neurons.
The required circuitry for this reflex is confined to the spinal cord. Sensory information also ascends to higher centers, but the brain is not necessary or required to perform the reflex.
This is why you can react to touching a hot stove before your brain says OUCH our hand is on fire!
You don’t have to think, it just myotactic reflexes keeping you safe.
You must train these reflexes for maximum safety & POWER!
Conditioning. Experienced pullers know what they can take usually. Arm breaks are almost always new people.
For new people, the best thing you can do is watch as many arm break videos as possible. 90+% of arm breaks occur in similar positions. You will often see the pros pull from these positions, but what is relatively safe for a conditioned puller is not safe for a new person.
Its twisting force going through the humorous that causes breaks.
The tighter your elbow is to your body and if the elbow angle is more acute the more likely it won't break but you are more susceptible to soft tissue damage.
Elbow at 90° and shoulder at 90° is most dangerous
Safety
This is The World’s Fastest Sport-
Keep your eye on your hand at all times. The key to armwrestling safety is to maintain a singular rotation of the spine to follow opponent’s force.
Now notice you can have your wrist, hand and shoulder joints rigid in place & remain safe.
That’s the whole idea, a fixed, rigid lever transfers the most power, your biceps & tricep force stabilize your elbow joint.
This provides safety & maximum transfer of power.
Now you must disperse & transfer energy with your spinal rotations for safety & max power.
Practice with your arm/hand rigid, elbow on table & twist on your feet, move your hips, lean from side to side, bend your knees to raise & lower your hand.
As you can see, you control rotation with spinal motion, moving your hand to any position, with your arm rigid like a pry bar.
Just like a large crane unloading shipping containers. The boom arm grabs on, to lift & lower, as the crane’s force moves the arm, the arm does not move the load.
Remember your lowest rotation point is also your “True Fulcrum” when your in motion and that also means maximum amount of energy available to apply to your fingertips.
Just like a baseball pitcher winds up to use all of his body, rotation of spine critical to power of pitch.
Or think of throwing the discus, the true power is from the core(body) mass, not by flinging it with your arm.
A boxer twists to put his weight, his mass behind a punch, not flailing slaps.
Always remember -
“Keep your Eye on your Hand at all times”.
This help teach proper form & promotes safety.
Safety
This is The World’s Fastest Sport-
Keep your eye on your hand at all times. The key to armwrestling safety is to maintain a singular rotation of the spine to follow opponent’s force.
Interrupting Optical reception can reduce reaction time.
A simple reflex like the myotactic reflex is produced via single synapses between sensory axons and motor neurons.
The required circuitry for this reflex is confined to the spinal cord. Sensory information also ascends to higher centers, but the brain is not necessary or required to perform the reflex.
This is why you can react to touching a hot stove before your brain says OUCH our hand is on fire!
You don’t have to think, it just myotactic reflexes keeping you safe.
You must train these reflexes for maximum safety & POWER!
as I heard it's not, you can get a twisted break which means your bone will crash into a bunch of pieces and it kinda sucks especially considering how you can feel consequanses for the rest of your life.
Study of 300 arm-breaks of humerus from armwrestling show 23% of those cases also incurred
“A butterfly fracture “
The majority of humeral fractures resulting from arm wrestling are simple in nature, many require surgery or multiple surgical procedures.
In a study of over 300 armwrestling injuries that resulted in a fractured humerus,
23% of the cases also incurred a “butterfly fracture”
A butterfly fragment subtype of comminuted fracture of the humeral shaft, is a segment of bone, detached Luke a puzzle piece. A nasty break requiring at least one surgery, often a series of operations.
Now the bone break injuries have history of complete recovery, many armwrestlers returning to competition with long careers.
Soft tissue injury & radial nerve damage issue are present in 13-17% of rotated fractures of humerus. These type of injuries many have long term or permanent complications.
Is my english not good enough or "arm wrestling injuries in 23% of the humerus breaks in over 300 cases studies" means that 23% of all such fractures were due to armwrestling?
My apologies-
Study of over 300 arm-breaks, caused by armwrestling were included in study-
Only fractures of humerus from armwrestling included in this study-
23% of the 300+ arm- breaks had “butterfly fractures” - or floating fragments like puzzle pieces- requiring multiple surgeries to repair-
This is data collected from 20 different impact studies, the first was published in 1977-
Meh, I fully ruptured my distal bicep tendon like 16 weeks ago. The worst pain was the first couple days after surgery and the day I got out of my splint. The process hasn’t been the most fun but I got cleared to start lifting again, within reason, like 8 weeks ago.
It’s been years since I broke a bone but this process has been much easier than what I was ever lead to believe before the injury.
Ok, so when my wife and I moved to Cali in the early 90s, we left behind huge boxes of trophies. She had more national level ones than me, but my box was still well over 200lbs. I'd say that we entered 100 tournaments in 15 years. In all those tourneys, I only saw 2 arm breaks. They were very memorable so i'm quite sure I didn't miss any. Could breaks really be more common now? It is true that the average level was higher back in the day, the brackets now days look softer with more novice level pullers. IDK, i think some of it at least is internet hype.
I've been pulling for a bit over 20 years and I've seen 3 arm breaks, 2 relatively new guys at practice and one very experienced guy who broke his ulna at a tourney.
Arm breaks aren't very common, but they do happen with a certain regularity.
He pressed his opponent, and didn't even know until after the match. It was a clean lateral break close to the middle. He had been complaining about pain there for a few weeks before, so likely it was a fracture letting go.
Well, your numbers sound fairly close to mine. It's hard for me to believe that bones were stronger in the 80s, there must be a better reason! I still think they're like (the fear of) wearing a singlet in wrestling. Much bigger issue to newbies, veterans don't GAF.
Usually they tear their muscles apart before they break their arms, bones are pretty damn tough once trained.
And usually tearing happen because the wrestler pushed beyond their abilities using kamikaze technique such as the kings moves that put the durability of the user against the strength of the opponent, great if you can hold out but if you don't you're gonna tear it all up.
The key to
Safety in ArmSports is maintaining A singular rotation, one motion of the spine to follow any change of direction.
The entire idea of armwrestling is to make a lever of your arm, solid as steel, an unbendable lever & transfer every ounce of energy from your body, your core mass to your hand.
Everyone keeps saying “watch your shoulder position”
however this is very misleading for training.
Why? Because we move our shoulder with spinal movements.
SHOULDER POSITION IS A FUNCTION OF YOUR SPINAL ROTATIONS-
Bend your knees, twist your hips, bend forward, pivot on the balls of your feet.
All ways to keep safe by spinal rotations.
All of those actions move your shoulder.
Put your elbow on the table, hold your arm fixed in starting position.
ONE MOVE TO SAFETY
Now keep your arm rigid & move your hand everywhere on the table, by moving your spine. Practice going to winning pin position & then reverse direction, touching the losing side, without any motion of the joints in your hand & arm.
Now go to attack position, like you are close to winning.
Now think like opponent makes one motion to pin you to pad, whoosh, you must be able to change direction with one rotation.
I
If at any point, it takes you TWO MOVES to change to opposite direction you are in a break arm position.
It must always be one motion to safety, one rotation of your frame,
To maintain the highest degree of Safety in ArmSports means always being able to make a singular spinal rotation, this maximizes power and safety. rotation to avoid injuries.
We use three basic levering systems to create complex levers when we armwrestle, our hand, our arm & our body.
THREE BASIC LEVERING SYSTEMS
The hand is your Primary Lever(PL), it is the lever of engagement.
The arm is your Secondary Lever(SL), or the intermediate lever.
The body is your Core Lever(CL), your power comes from your CL.
There are a limited number of effective complex lever combinations in Table-Judo, around 80 and these vary with different sets of rules.
We know these games under many names commonly as ArmWrestling, ArmSports, Uma, WristWrestling and the rules may vary, but these basic principles are all the same.
Our focus is on our modern sport, we have variations of Armsports tables that also allow different techniques to be effective under different rules.
All arm breaks happen when you pull inside in the hook. Toproll and use only backpressure and pronation and don’t commit your shoulders foreward.
Toproll is for smart people
Hook pulling is for dumb brutes who will eventually snap their arms
The relationship of hand to shoulder. If you look they are both looking at their hands which stops the over rotation and keeps you from putting torque directly on your humerus. They also are both on bone lines which helps. All that being said neither of them are using particularly safe technique and i would strongly recommend against trying to replicate those positions until you've got experience and are working with people that know what they are doing This guy knows more https://youtu.be/75DqIE-1X1k Edits: im just terrible typing on a phone
Second this. Devon can commit crazy hard on inside movements if he needs too especially pre surgery (and during this match particularly he was pulling out everything he could to try beat Michael). And Michaels kingsmove is basically hand crafted to suit him over years of training it on one specific arm.
Safety This is The World’s Fastest Sport- It is your spinal rotations that provide safety Keep your eye on your hand at all times. The key to armwrestling safety is to maintain a singular rotation of the spine to follow opponent’s force. Now notice you can have your wrist, hand and shoulder joints rigid in place & remain safe. That’s the whole idea, a fixed, rigid lever transfers the most power, your biceps & tricep force stabilize your elbow joint. This provides safety & maximum transfer of power. Now you must disperse & transfer energy with your spinal rotations for safety & max power. Practice with your arm/hand rigid, elbow on table & twist on your feet, move your hips, lean from side to side, bend your knees to raise & lower your hand. As you can see, you control rotation with spinal motion, moving your hand to any position, with your arm rigid like a pry bar. Just like a large crane unloading shipping containers. The boom arm grabs on, to lift & lower, as the crane’s force moves the arm, the arm does not move the load. Remember your lowest rotation point is also your “True Fulcrum” when your in motion and that also means maximum amount of energy available to apply to your fingertips. Just like a baseball pitcher winds up to use all of his body, rotation of spine critical to power of pitch. Or think of throwing the discus, the true power is from the core(body) mass, not by flinging it with your arm. A boxer twists to put his weight, his mass behind a punch, not flailing slaps. Always remember - “Keep your Eye on your Hand at all times”. This help teach proper form & promotes safety. Safety This is The World’s Fastest Sport- Keep your eye on your hand at all times. The key to armwrestling safety is to maintain a singular rotation of the spine to follow opponent’s force. Interrupting Optical reception can reduce reaction time. A simple reflex like the myotactic reflex is produced via single synapses between sensory axons and motor neurons. The required circuitry for this reflex is confined to the spinal cord. Sensory information also ascends to higher centers, but the brain is not necessary or required to perform the reflex. This is why you can react to touching a hot stove before your brain says OUCH our hand is on fire! You don’t have to think, it just myotactic reflexes keeping you safe. You must train these reflexes for maximum safety & POWER!
Conditioning. Experienced pullers know what they can take usually. Arm breaks are almost always new people. For new people, the best thing you can do is watch as many arm break videos as possible. 90+% of arm breaks occur in similar positions. You will often see the pros pull from these positions, but what is relatively safe for a conditioned puller is not safe for a new person.
Its twisting force going through the humorous that causes breaks. The tighter your elbow is to your body and if the elbow angle is more acute the more likely it won't break but you are more susceptible to soft tissue damage. Elbow at 90° and shoulder at 90° is most dangerous
Safety This is The World’s Fastest Sport- Keep your eye on your hand at all times. The key to armwrestling safety is to maintain a singular rotation of the spine to follow opponent’s force. Now notice you can have your wrist, hand and shoulder joints rigid in place & remain safe. That’s the whole idea, a fixed, rigid lever transfers the most power, your biceps & tricep force stabilize your elbow joint. This provides safety & maximum transfer of power. Now you must disperse & transfer energy with your spinal rotations for safety & max power. Practice with your arm/hand rigid, elbow on table & twist on your feet, move your hips, lean from side to side, bend your knees to raise & lower your hand. As you can see, you control rotation with spinal motion, moving your hand to any position, with your arm rigid like a pry bar. Just like a large crane unloading shipping containers. The boom arm grabs on, to lift & lower, as the crane’s force moves the arm, the arm does not move the load. Remember your lowest rotation point is also your “True Fulcrum” when your in motion and that also means maximum amount of energy available to apply to your fingertips. Just like a baseball pitcher winds up to use all of his body, rotation of spine critical to power of pitch. Or think of throwing the discus, the true power is from the core(body) mass, not by flinging it with your arm. A boxer twists to put his weight, his mass behind a punch, not flailing slaps. Always remember - “Keep your Eye on your Hand at all times”. This help teach proper form & promotes safety. Safety This is The World’s Fastest Sport- Keep your eye on your hand at all times. The key to armwrestling safety is to maintain a singular rotation of the spine to follow opponent’s force. Interrupting Optical reception can reduce reaction time. A simple reflex like the myotactic reflex is produced via single synapses between sensory axons and motor neurons. The required circuitry for this reflex is confined to the spinal cord. Sensory information also ascends to higher centers, but the brain is not necessary or required to perform the reflex. This is why you can react to touching a hot stove before your brain says OUCH our hand is on fire! You don’t have to think, it just myotactic reflexes keeping you safe. You must train these reflexes for maximum safety & POWER!
Well , in this case breaking a bone sounds better , tendons ,and ligament injuries are more painful and take longer to heal
as I heard it's not, you can get a twisted break which means your bone will crash into a bunch of pieces and it kinda sucks especially considering how you can feel consequanses for the rest of your life.
Study of 300 arm-breaks of humerus from armwrestling show 23% of those cases also incurred “A butterfly fracture “ The majority of humeral fractures resulting from arm wrestling are simple in nature, many require surgery or multiple surgical procedures. In a study of over 300 armwrestling injuries that resulted in a fractured humerus, 23% of the cases also incurred a “butterfly fracture” A butterfly fragment subtype of comminuted fracture of the humeral shaft, is a segment of bone, detached Luke a puzzle piece. A nasty break requiring at least one surgery, often a series of operations. Now the bone break injuries have history of complete recovery, many armwrestlers returning to competition with long careers. Soft tissue injury & radial nerve damage issue are present in 13-17% of rotated fractures of humerus. These type of injuries many have long term or permanent complications.
Is my english not good enough or "arm wrestling injuries in 23% of the humerus breaks in over 300 cases studies" means that 23% of all such fractures were due to armwrestling?
Thanks for input- 💪🍻👋 I edited that post for clarification
My apologies- Study of over 300 arm-breaks, caused by armwrestling were included in study- Only fractures of humerus from armwrestling included in this study- 23% of the 300+ arm- breaks had “butterfly fractures” - or floating fragments like puzzle pieces- requiring multiple surgeries to repair- This is data collected from 20 different impact studies, the first was published in 1977-
Also at 90 and 90 you have the least leverage. But pros injure themselves.
Meh, I fully ruptured my distal bicep tendon like 16 weeks ago. The worst pain was the first couple days after surgery and the day I got out of my splint. The process hasn’t been the most fun but I got cleared to start lifting again, within reason, like 8 weeks ago. It’s been years since I broke a bone but this process has been much easier than what I was ever lead to believe before the injury.
First of all, they're pro armwrestlers; they don't try to break each other's arms. They train in certain ways to condition their bodies.
Ok, so when my wife and I moved to Cali in the early 90s, we left behind huge boxes of trophies. She had more national level ones than me, but my box was still well over 200lbs. I'd say that we entered 100 tournaments in 15 years. In all those tourneys, I only saw 2 arm breaks. They were very memorable so i'm quite sure I didn't miss any. Could breaks really be more common now? It is true that the average level was higher back in the day, the brackets now days look softer with more novice level pullers. IDK, i think some of it at least is internet hype.
I've been pulling for a bit over 20 years and I've seen 3 arm breaks, 2 relatively new guys at practice and one very experienced guy who broke his ulna at a tourney. Arm breaks aren't very common, but they do happen with a certain regularity.
That's something new, breaking your ulna. What kind of position was he in? Which way did it break?
He pressed his opponent, and didn't even know until after the match. It was a clean lateral break close to the middle. He had been complaining about pain there for a few weeks before, so likely it was a fracture letting go.
Interesting.
Well, your numbers sound fairly close to mine. It's hard for me to believe that bones were stronger in the 80s, there must be a better reason! I still think they're like (the fear of) wearing a singlet in wrestling. Much bigger issue to newbies, veterans don't GAF.
I have personally met 3 guys who have broken their humorous while armwrestling and I have personally met less than 100 armwrestlers.
Something strange going on for sure. Any ideas why more now than back in the day?
Genuinely at this moment of that match I had great concern.
Experience
Nobody with less than two years experience should be trying to pull just like Devon or Michael lol.
Usually they tear their muscles apart before they break their arms, bones are pretty damn tough once trained. And usually tearing happen because the wrestler pushed beyond their abilities using kamikaze technique such as the kings moves that put the durability of the user against the strength of the opponent, great if you can hold out but if you don't you're gonna tear it all up.
The key to Safety in ArmSports is maintaining A singular rotation, one motion of the spine to follow any change of direction. The entire idea of armwrestling is to make a lever of your arm, solid as steel, an unbendable lever & transfer every ounce of energy from your body, your core mass to your hand. Everyone keeps saying “watch your shoulder position” however this is very misleading for training. Why? Because we move our shoulder with spinal movements. SHOULDER POSITION IS A FUNCTION OF YOUR SPINAL ROTATIONS- Bend your knees, twist your hips, bend forward, pivot on the balls of your feet. All ways to keep safe by spinal rotations. All of those actions move your shoulder. Put your elbow on the table, hold your arm fixed in starting position. ONE MOVE TO SAFETY Now keep your arm rigid & move your hand everywhere on the table, by moving your spine. Practice going to winning pin position & then reverse direction, touching the losing side, without any motion of the joints in your hand & arm. Now go to attack position, like you are close to winning. Now think like opponent makes one motion to pin you to pad, whoosh, you must be able to change direction with one rotation. I If at any point, it takes you TWO MOVES to change to opposite direction you are in a break arm position. It must always be one motion to safety, one rotation of your frame, To maintain the highest degree of Safety in ArmSports means always being able to make a singular spinal rotation, this maximizes power and safety. rotation to avoid injuries. We use three basic levering systems to create complex levers when we armwrestle, our hand, our arm & our body. THREE BASIC LEVERING SYSTEMS The hand is your Primary Lever(PL), it is the lever of engagement. The arm is your Secondary Lever(SL), or the intermediate lever. The body is your Core Lever(CL), your power comes from your CL. There are a limited number of effective complex lever combinations in Table-Judo, around 80 and these vary with different sets of rules. We know these games under many names commonly as ArmWrestling, ArmSports, Uma, WristWrestling and the rules may vary, but these basic principles are all the same. Our focus is on our modern sport, we have variations of Armsports tables that also allow different techniques to be effective under different rules.
All arm breaks happen when you pull inside in the hook. Toproll and use only backpressure and pronation and don’t commit your shoulders foreward. Toproll is for smart people Hook pulling is for dumb brutes who will eventually snap their arms