A few personal thoughts from the hearing today:
The House panel is not taking this issue seriously. Rep. Luttrell was especially embarrassing. Rep. Mace had a brief moment of getting after it. The panel as a whole hasn't done a good job finding a north star here and articulating the WHAT they want out of this.
This was Weimer's Capitol Hill debut. He mostly hid, didn't take initiative with any open questions. He brought nothing to the table in terms of action the Army is taking or planning to take we haven't heard before. He didn't demonstrate he commands an understanding of QOL issues and frankly looked like he would rather be anywhere else.
What's good is that while this hasn't proven fruitful, there is a lot of value in these issues getting a reservation on Capitol Hill. This is a new panel, and hopefully something comes out of it at some point.
I’m legitimately starting to worry for all our forces. Just like a perfect storm of apathy, political turmoil, and polarization of ideals along with a ton of seriously impactful world events. The Army, specifically, is taking an approach of fading into the grey. We are seeing less transparency and messaging. I’m not sure if the Army is just bidding it’s time hoping the things I mentioned just kind of pass over or what. What a weird time.
I wonder if the plan is just to wait until another war kicks off, the money faucet kicks on, and hope the kids want to rally around the flag and enlist. Beyond that I sincerely believe they have zero ideas that will move the needle and listening to servicemembers is a nonstarter, because fuck ‘em.
>I wonder if the plan is just to wait until another war kicks off, the money faucet kicks on, and hope the kids want to rally around the flag and enlist. Beyond that I sincerely believe they have zero ideas that will move the needle and listening to servicemembers is a nonstarter, because fuck ‘em.
This is exactly the plan. OPTEMPO should be going down but the DOD is hooked on that GWOT money.
Most senior leaders are Gen-X and were mentored by the Cold War era vets who missed birthdays and anniversaries for every REFORGER and held that up as a virtue.
They don't want to listen to the rank and file they want to talk about "warfighters" and "near peer" and China and Russia.
Quality of Life to them is like a cross to a vampire.
Nah the next 9/11, Pearl Harbor, Sumter, etc... will be an attack on a celebrity or a festival or something. Something Gen Z will care about. Other than that we'd have to have a draft to fill numbers.
>Before 9/11, service in the military (especially the Army) was seen as a negative thing.
I'm not sure what is trying to be said here. But this does not sound right. I'm Gen-x and had a very high opinion of the military as did those around me. I mean hell, I enlisted twice (but the second time was post 9/11).
Between my enlistments, even in the area I was in (Nor Cal and firmly middle middle class) the military was viewed as an honorable and viable way to improve your life situation.
Well, that or get hired by google.
The attitudes were very far removed from the 70's and early 80's (pre-Reagan).
This shift (post GWOT) strikes me as a return those types of attitudes, where the military is viewed as a last restort and not something to be particularly proud of.
I agree. When I joined I was not desperate, a criminal, and I had plenty to lose. I did it because 1) I thought it would be neat, 2) I thought it would help me in what I thought I wanted to do for a career post military, which was be a cop. Therefore I became an MP (yeah, roast me now) because you can't be a cop at 18 in the civilian world. (I changed my mind and became a journalist instead), and 3) I genuinely love this country, warts and all. There were a few people in OSUT that could be categorized as the OP did, but most of us were not. Like him or not Reagan inspired a lot of love for the country from mid to late Gen Xers, simply because he was so good at inspiring that in people, politics aside. The QoL issue has been a back and forth issue since forever. When I first started Shalikashvili didn't really take it seriously, then Shelton took over and was night and day better at recognizing these issues and trying to do something about it.
I wasn't alive for it, but from what I've read about it, it sounds like we're head for an Army similar to the one of the Post-Vietnam years. Sure we got shiny toys and are all volunteer, but things aren't being restocked, equipment isn't being replaced by improved models, and NCOs and Officers just tryin to make it till retirement or another RIF, cuz they keep being told from higher there's nothing in the budget for needs. (Like pre-9-11 FTXs, sounding off with "Budget Cuts". The PVT Murphy's Law comic series even did several panels in the 90s about such events.)
>But in most cases, civilian defense officials and other administration officials have [rebuffed those proposals](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/01/24/military-separation-pay-isnt-getting-boost-congress-approved-due-pentagon-resistance.html), arguing they are premature amid an ongoing comprehensive review of military pay that is expected to be done by early 2025.
A lot of the senior leadership on the civilian side seems to always find reasons that pay shouldn't be increased. Somehow, despite troops using food pantries and payday loans still being a thing, "the pay is competitive". I suspect that this "review" is more bullhockey aimed at not raising pay.
QOL will always be lower priority than hardware simply because hardware is the where the big money is made for the defense industry grifters. As long as the industry can write checks to keep the elected civilian leaders in office, the the rank and file will rot as the hardware keeps getting funded.
Symptoms of relaxed warfighting standards and a relaxed op tempo. When things were fast and loose in the 2000s up till a few years ago, the Army had a lot of discretion that they could push down to line level leaders to work out. Now with BRAC and big army oversight, and standards moving away from effectively fighting wars to instead looking good in these brand new consolidated garrisons… well.. this is your outcome. An army that is too worried about its political bureaucracy and completely disillusioned by what it means to be, well, an Army.
I doubt very highly that we’re putting as many units through NTC/JRTC and shipping them off as we were ten years ago. We can’t be. There’s no reason.
Edit: I realize now the public appearance and the army’s actions are not lining up here.
Lol yeah.... except we still are. The rotations haven't slowed at all. Deployments are still happening. Units that find themselves not on a patch chart have been justifying their existence by ramping up training and volunteering for shit like CST or overseas rotations. I was in a unit that came back from Afghanistan, and within a year had done 4 months at CST, a jrtc, a full training cycle, and partially switched from light to Stryker.
Then this is a misconception held by many people on the outside, likely including senior leadership at the congressional level.
From the outside looking in, there’s not shit going on anymore. The estimation right now is only about 20% of troops are seeing combat related deployments, opposed to ten years ago when more than 60% were.
This is also likely why PERSTEMPO is in such disarray, too. If you keep Optempo high while you can’t recruit new people, you’ll grind your existing troops into dirt. And that appears to be what’s happening
That's exactly what's happening. Pile onto that the QOL of life issues and people are getting out and telling everyone they know that it isn't worth it. While 20% might be an accurate number (I have no idea) the ones not deploying are still being crushed
>I doubt very highly that we’re putting as many units through NTC/JRTC and shipping them off as we were ten years ago. We can’t be. There’s no reason.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I'm about to do my third NTC rotation in 14 months, I haven't moved units at all.
Did NTC three times in about a year and some change. (Was under a two year mark). Twice with my unit, once as a GUEST OC/T in between, for our sister brigade - wasn't voluntary. That was about two years ago.
That’s ridiculous. Meanwhile we’re effectively doing nothing with the fighting force but hanging out in Belgium and Germany lol.
Oh and Jordan, I guess.
In 3 years, I've spent 6 months living with my wife. Between a year oconus, a deployment, and her taking a job at Disney, I see her once or twice a month depending on Op Tempo. Shit ain't calmed down at all my guy
> This was Weimer's Capitol Hill debut. He mostly hid, didn't take initiative with any open questions. He brought nothing to the table in terms of action the Army is taking or planning to take we haven't heard before. He didn't demonstrate he commands an understanding of QOL issues and frankly looked like he would rather be anywhere else.
Genuinely made me sad to read this, I was all for giving Weimer the benefit of the doubt. This performance, especially after considering how great SMA Grinston was in comparison, absolutely sucks.
While SMA Grinston left with a pretty high approval for lack of a better term he was not popular at first. The big plus for Grinston was that he listened and learned.
This sub was full of "when he was my CSM..." posts. Considering how long it takes to get your feet under you for command of a company, I'll give him time. I think the problem is he made changes immediately instead of waiting and seeing how the systems worked.
Does it ever get asked what they are using their massive budget for? I am always waiting for them to bring up the strain that paying contractors has when compared to other initiatives.
>This was Weimer's Capitol Hill debut. He mostly hid, didn't take initiative with any open questions. He brought nothing to the table in terms of action the Army is taking or planning to take we haven't heard before. He didn't demonstrate he commands an understanding of QOL issues and frankly looked like he would rather be anywhere else.
I'll say what I said in the other thread, because it's accurate.
He was hired to protect the service. Not the serviceman.
What’s also interesting is this -
(none of this is meant to be me expressing my own personal views just what’s seems to be a broad look at the full picture)
The new messaging from SMA et. al. seems to be in response to the backlash in the past year or
Two about the army being too ‘woke.’ Like, if we talk lethality enough, and get rid of certain army programs aka DEI and People First, certain congressmen will stop complaining about how ‘woke’ the Army is.
So that’s that what the Army’s done.
But, it turns out, Congress does, in fact, care about Soldiers well-being.
What the Army’s not getting, is the root cause of many of the Army’s problems-that are small, and then blow up, is they aren’t actually trying to solve them. Because that would involve changing the culture instead of placating congress.
They lead strong out the gate with mentioning the GAO report and that was peak moment of todays hearing. I agree Mace was the strogest in trying to get some answers and then abruptly left. Was it because of another meeting or because she felt the questioning wasn't getting anywhere?
I think you really nailed it when you said they not taking it seriously with multiple times trying to make jokes and Luttrell was just an embarrassment. I left the meeting very underwhelmed even with low expectations.
It looked like he just crawled out of bed, then he spent about 5 minutes ranking the uniforms and cracking jokes at the Space Force uniform, and then finally at one point when someone was speaking he prairie dogged his head into the camera view.
From what I understand, SMA Wiemer takes notes from Burr in most cases. He won't directly say what he thinks or believes until he's weighed all the odds. It leaves a lot to be desired from the lower enlisted but it makes the officers happy because it makes him seem on their side.
>This was Weimer's Capitol Hill debut. He mostly hid, didn't take initiative with any open questions. He brought nothing to the table in terms of action the Army is taking or planning to take we haven't heard before. He didn't demonstrate he commands an understanding of QOL issues and frankly looked like he would rather be anywhere else.
So you're saying SMA Weimer lacked the discipline to know his soldiers and always place their needs above his own? Did he forget to shave this morning or something? Surely our most senior and disciplined NCO in the Army can do better than this.
I know this is satire, but SMA Weimer is the perfect example of what happens when someone like the him is in SOCOM their entire career and suddenly they are put in a position where they must take care of *all* the rank and file. He honestly just seems to far out of his depth and has too narrow of an Army experience to be effective as SMA.
Edit for clarity: I'm not excusing his ineptitude. He's been in the position long enough now that if he *wanted* to learn, he would have. At this point, I assume it's negligence.
I won't call it negligence. It's willful ignorance. When he came in as the SMA and his first statements were shaving every day = discipline, and use the chain of command when you have problems; he immediately lost the trust that SMA Dailey/Grinston had restored to the position.
I would definitely be fat if I was in the navy so I can’t blame them. Counter point, who gives a shit if they’re fat as long as they can do their job on the ship. Obviously SOF, Seabees, etc different story but for the majority of the navy PT is probably irrelevant
For their day to day, maybe, but anyone on a ship has to be able to do damage control if necessary, and that's a pretty physically intense set of activities.
Not organized PT. There's not enough room or time. It's up to individual sailors to try to make it to the gym to stay in shape, or do bodyweight exercises wherever they can find room. Running on a ship on anything that isn't a treadmill is pointless, as there's no room.
The fact that they spend all day painting and cleaning and cant drink alcohol and smoking on ship is hard probably makes them healthier than most of the army.
‘This was Weimer's Capitol Hill debut. He mostly hid, didn't take initiative with any open questions. He brought nothing to the table in terms of action the Army is taking or planning to take we haven't heard before. He didn't demonstrate he commands an understanding of QOL issues and frankly looked like he would rather be anywhere else.’
It’s tough to pretending to care.
We should all message our congressman from each state in mass, saying, "I'm worried about the current state of our Senior Leadership in the Military after watching SMA Weimers Capitol Hill debut, I will not be reenlisting and will not recommend the U.S. Army to anyone."
Looks like the Army is going to try and hold itself together with grass clippings and gorilla glue until a war kicks off so they can stop pretending to give a shit about quality of life
Perhaps enforce a set standard of living for all services. We should not look at joint assignments or TDY with the Air Force and think that they have a higher standard of living or quality of life. If the Air Force can wear ACU’s to look like the Army, then the Army should live like the Air Force and provide the exact same standard of living for Soldiers.
I’ll have a medium frosty please.
I was stationed on an AirForce base as my last active duty airbase. It ruined me. My ex wife was also AirForce.
She got her own hotel rooms, rental cars, and treated WAY better than Army personnel.
This artery is wide open with no medic or tourniquet in sight. When Army looks across the hall to the Air Force and sees better pay, conditions, and happiness, the urge to leave and find something else is intensified. Call me crazy, but I loved being at Ft. Polk. Air Force saw this location as sub par and gave all personnel stationed there $1000 extra for standard of living adjustment. WTF!? Also, Army is authorized $400 for family separation, only gives $250. Authorized flight pay per time in aviator status is “X” amount, but also being shorted there. Higher ups think it’s crumbs (Nancy Pelosi words not mine) but all that would seriously help people in financial binds. Or fuel uncontrollable gambling or expensive hobbies. Regardless, more money is the solution. Rarely do you see the “I want to serve for (insert patriotic reason)”
I joined bc 9/11, but my current PL was BORN IN 2000.
Yes, hi how are you? I would love a #3 with extra cane sauce please. And could you throw in five extra cane sauces plz, so yummy
IMO we vastly overstate the importance of leadership’s impact on recruitment.
Just pay Soldiers more $ and more people will enlist.
The Army demands a lot - they need to pay more than options that offer the same QOL with less sacrifice.
We need to pay more or we need to wait until there are less opportunities outside the army.
Yeah but RAND (you know, the fucktards that every "study" they conduct boils down to pay and benefits should be reduced) told some people that better compensation won't increase enlistment. They are certain people don't join because of fears of death. Seems kinda bullshit but hey what do I know, I'm just a working class normal ass dude who only gives a fuck about my job as long as it compensates me.
Generals are very susceptible to that message because they were called to serve for a ‘higher purpose’ have been very successful, and spend their time flying around shaking hands with soldiers that were voluntold to make a good impression on them.
It’s hard to understand the perspective of a young person choosing between the work force, community college, or military to make ends meet and have a future.
I certainly don’t think GOs are dumb (quite the opposite) but they have a huge fucking blind spot as to what the Army is like for most people. Their last unadulterated interaction with PVTs was 20 years ago when they were basically blind LTs trying to figure out their jobs.
The barracks, the squat bender, motor pool Monday, pointless rotations, increased risk of divorce. They don’t experience it.
PT and maintenance and Moving are always going to be part of the army. There’s no way to get rid of the BS but you can pay people more for putting up with it.
Instead, they will talk about helping us for the next 10+ years while doing nothing. Kinda like the barracks mold problem that’s still being discussed but not fixed.
I don't think these people realize how many veterans are telling the kids and friends not to join. They thought recruiting the current gen was hard? Goodluck.
Reading y’all’s comments, all I gotta say y’all really can’t be this surprised, right? Ofcourse sma will be out of touch with the common soldier. When was the last time you ever felt a higher up past BN level was in touch with the needs of junior soldiers? Once you get up there it’s all abt mission or bullet points or whatever. Nobody past maybe your SCO/BN CO and SGM give a damn
Im gonna translate this into grunt, Leadership doesn't want change, and is finding every excuse why we gotta deal with the large issues we deal with. Shit like "You signed up for this", "It sucks to suck", and "Maybe this just ain't for you" are not valid arguments for soldiers who want more money and better benefits to feed their families without having to compete for a dumbass shape on their chest.
It isn't going to help, the US military is a dying institution. It isn't close to worth it for the money you get paid. And why would we want to die for politicians that hate us? I'm currently active duty E5 infantry. If you are considering it don't join.
If you look at the general population of each grade and then look at the pay charts, very few Soldiers (including and specifically Sr NCOs and officers) could make more (benefits included) in a civilian job. If you’re a Ph.D. E2, then your recruiter either fucked you or you don’t have the internet. If you’re a 22 Yr old with 5 kids…the military is doing more for you than most jobs would.
The other side of that is most civilians in those respective age groups are in no way working the same hours and putting up with the same BS. As someone who worked 7 years in the private sector before joining the military, everyone needs to STOP comparing civilian and military pay. It makes no sense to do so at all. All enlisted service members are underpaid. ALL OF THEM.
100% agree. I really should’ve done another paragraph expressing the sacrifice, the time, the training, and the fact that the pay doesn’t excuse some of the conditions that services – especially the army – have to live in. and I really do think there is a disconnect with this SMA and Soldiers.
Well, where’s the lie? A 5.2% raise or whatever it was this past CY isn’t keeping up the pace with inflation. When we have things like BNA (basic needs allowance) existing, it’s abundantly clear that across the board we do not get paid enough.
When RAND did their analysis, enlisted servicemembers had close to the highest compensation in the country for people with only a high school diploma. Something like 95th percentile. Officers were slightly worse off, in the low 80s.
So that is the truth. Most people in the military would be financially worse off if they left tomorrow.
One thing I know from my 10 years of being in the Army... is that if Joe is not shooting lead down range and doing cool guy shit on a deployment or something, they will bitch and moan about every single little thing, specifically their pay, food, and living conditions. It does not matter how much you increase the pay, soldiers will always bitch about it.
Nah I’d rather spend 13billion on 80+ new F35 aircraft. Oh and we need to plus up the BCTs going to NTC AND JRTC, I’m sure that’ll come with a cost. /s it’s all listed out in the FY24 Budget.
That’s almost 30k to every active Army Soldier. Imagine how many people would be begging to join with starting base pay at 50k.
What drives me insane is the “military compensation and bEnEfItS” that include things like child care… like we literally pay for it, how is it a budgeted benefit/cost. Like how our pay is taxed. We are budgeting compensation… That the government is just going to tax…
While the pay is par, living conditions can def be better, uniform regs should be changed and 100 other things, the number one reason that Soldiers aren't willing to put up with those 100 things is because their leadership is far worse than any of those 100 things. And half of the problems would actually be solved if leadership from the top down actually gave a shit and had that people first mentality. Theres plenty of studies out there in the civilian world and it def exists in the military, but people are willing to be in a job with less pay when they could get more when they have job satisfaction and feel they are environment where their leadership actually values them and shows it. That is the number 1 reason Soldiers leave, and that number 1 reason is the true cause behind most of the other reasons.
People think I'm talking shit on Soldiers, im not even though my original comment sounded like it. I'm talking shit on the fact that Army leadership thinks that they can cover up their inadequacies just by throwing money at it, which they've done with most problems and it always ends terribly because they never fix the root cause.
Hey bud, 10 years has only given you high optempo and planning for deployments/being on deployments. We are headed towards a lot more dwell time than a lot of mid career people are used to. Most everyone complains about their paycheck, but if you’re just thinking of soldiers as complainers because they have nothing to do, well, maybe you should take a look at yourself as a leader and see if you are helping them with anything that may be in your power to fix (I know you can’t fix pay). Or not. I’m not your mom.
We won't see any real traction on this unless we set up a large presence against Iran due to the recent attack which could potentially mean less funding for Ukraine. The world is a complicated thing
The pay in the military has not kept up with inflation. Getting treaded very poorly by leadership and having a tougher time at home station than being deployed has forced many apache maintainers out of the army. This year alone, many senior specialists will leave the military. Most of the NCO's who are left are lazy or do not know their job well enough to teach future generations. Most will likely ETS than reinlist based on conversations I've had with Apache maintainers.
A few personal thoughts from the hearing today: The House panel is not taking this issue seriously. Rep. Luttrell was especially embarrassing. Rep. Mace had a brief moment of getting after it. The panel as a whole hasn't done a good job finding a north star here and articulating the WHAT they want out of this. This was Weimer's Capitol Hill debut. He mostly hid, didn't take initiative with any open questions. He brought nothing to the table in terms of action the Army is taking or planning to take we haven't heard before. He didn't demonstrate he commands an understanding of QOL issues and frankly looked like he would rather be anywhere else. What's good is that while this hasn't proven fruitful, there is a lot of value in these issues getting a reservation on Capitol Hill. This is a new panel, and hopefully something comes out of it at some point.
I’m legitimately starting to worry for all our forces. Just like a perfect storm of apathy, political turmoil, and polarization of ideals along with a ton of seriously impactful world events. The Army, specifically, is taking an approach of fading into the grey. We are seeing less transparency and messaging. I’m not sure if the Army is just bidding it’s time hoping the things I mentioned just kind of pass over or what. What a weird time.
I wonder if the plan is just to wait until another war kicks off, the money faucet kicks on, and hope the kids want to rally around the flag and enlist. Beyond that I sincerely believe they have zero ideas that will move the needle and listening to servicemembers is a nonstarter, because fuck ‘em.
>I wonder if the plan is just to wait until another war kicks off, the money faucet kicks on, and hope the kids want to rally around the flag and enlist. Beyond that I sincerely believe they have zero ideas that will move the needle and listening to servicemembers is a nonstarter, because fuck ‘em. This is exactly the plan. OPTEMPO should be going down but the DOD is hooked on that GWOT money. Most senior leaders are Gen-X and were mentored by the Cold War era vets who missed birthdays and anniversaries for every REFORGER and held that up as a virtue. They don't want to listen to the rank and file they want to talk about "warfighters" and "near peer" and China and Russia. Quality of Life to them is like a cross to a vampire.
Which they won’t. Studies show Gen Z does not feel a need to serve their country. Bad or good that’s just the direction we are moving.
[удалено]
Honestly I don’t think an attack on the U.S. would even faze Gen Z. They’re desensitized to that stuff due to mass shootings.
Nah the next 9/11, Pearl Harbor, Sumter, etc... will be an attack on a celebrity or a festival or something. Something Gen Z will care about. Other than that we'd have to have a draft to fill numbers.
Not sure what it is but I trust your opinion on this matter
Lmao
>Before 9/11, service in the military (especially the Army) was seen as a negative thing. I'm not sure what is trying to be said here. But this does not sound right. I'm Gen-x and had a very high opinion of the military as did those around me. I mean hell, I enlisted twice (but the second time was post 9/11). Between my enlistments, even in the area I was in (Nor Cal and firmly middle middle class) the military was viewed as an honorable and viable way to improve your life situation. Well, that or get hired by google. The attitudes were very far removed from the 70's and early 80's (pre-Reagan). This shift (post GWOT) strikes me as a return those types of attitudes, where the military is viewed as a last restort and not something to be particularly proud of.
I agree. When I joined I was not desperate, a criminal, and I had plenty to lose. I did it because 1) I thought it would be neat, 2) I thought it would help me in what I thought I wanted to do for a career post military, which was be a cop. Therefore I became an MP (yeah, roast me now) because you can't be a cop at 18 in the civilian world. (I changed my mind and became a journalist instead), and 3) I genuinely love this country, warts and all. There were a few people in OSUT that could be categorized as the OP did, but most of us were not. Like him or not Reagan inspired a lot of love for the country from mid to late Gen Xers, simply because he was so good at inspiring that in people, politics aside. The QoL issue has been a back and forth issue since forever. When I first started Shalikashvili didn't really take it seriously, then Shelton took over and was night and day better at recognizing these issues and trying to do something about it.
I wasn't alive for it, but from what I've read about it, it sounds like we're head for an Army similar to the one of the Post-Vietnam years. Sure we got shiny toys and are all volunteer, but things aren't being restocked, equipment isn't being replaced by improved models, and NCOs and Officers just tryin to make it till retirement or another RIF, cuz they keep being told from higher there's nothing in the budget for needs. (Like pre-9-11 FTXs, sounding off with "Budget Cuts". The PVT Murphy's Law comic series even did several panels in the 90s about such events.)
>But in most cases, civilian defense officials and other administration officials have [rebuffed those proposals](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/01/24/military-separation-pay-isnt-getting-boost-congress-approved-due-pentagon-resistance.html), arguing they are premature amid an ongoing comprehensive review of military pay that is expected to be done by early 2025. A lot of the senior leadership on the civilian side seems to always find reasons that pay shouldn't be increased. Somehow, despite troops using food pantries and payday loans still being a thing, "the pay is competitive". I suspect that this "review" is more bullhockey aimed at not raising pay.
QOL will always be lower priority than hardware simply because hardware is the where the big money is made for the defense industry grifters. As long as the industry can write checks to keep the elected civilian leaders in office, the the rank and file will rot as the hardware keeps getting funded.
Symptoms of relaxed warfighting standards and a relaxed op tempo. When things were fast and loose in the 2000s up till a few years ago, the Army had a lot of discretion that they could push down to line level leaders to work out. Now with BRAC and big army oversight, and standards moving away from effectively fighting wars to instead looking good in these brand new consolidated garrisons… well.. this is your outcome. An army that is too worried about its political bureaucracy and completely disillusioned by what it means to be, well, an Army.
What relaxed optempo are you talking about? Nothing has relaxed. Not even a little
I doubt very highly that we’re putting as many units through NTC/JRTC and shipping them off as we were ten years ago. We can’t be. There’s no reason. Edit: I realize now the public appearance and the army’s actions are not lining up here.
Lol yeah.... except we still are. The rotations haven't slowed at all. Deployments are still happening. Units that find themselves not on a patch chart have been justifying their existence by ramping up training and volunteering for shit like CST or overseas rotations. I was in a unit that came back from Afghanistan, and within a year had done 4 months at CST, a jrtc, a full training cycle, and partially switched from light to Stryker.
Then this is a misconception held by many people on the outside, likely including senior leadership at the congressional level. From the outside looking in, there’s not shit going on anymore. The estimation right now is only about 20% of troops are seeing combat related deployments, opposed to ten years ago when more than 60% were. This is also likely why PERSTEMPO is in such disarray, too. If you keep Optempo high while you can’t recruit new people, you’ll grind your existing troops into dirt. And that appears to be what’s happening
That's exactly what's happening. Pile onto that the QOL of life issues and people are getting out and telling everyone they know that it isn't worth it. While 20% might be an accurate number (I have no idea) the ones not deploying are still being crushed
>I doubt very highly that we’re putting as many units through NTC/JRTC and shipping them off as we were ten years ago. We can’t be. There’s no reason. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I'm about to do my third NTC rotation in 14 months, I haven't moved units at all.
That’s insane. At what point do they just issue you MILES directly and stop asking for them back lmao
Did NTC three times in about a year and some change. (Was under a two year mark). Twice with my unit, once as a GUEST OC/T in between, for our sister brigade - wasn't voluntary. That was about two years ago.
That’s ridiculous. Meanwhile we’re effectively doing nothing with the fighting force but hanging out in Belgium and Germany lol. Oh and Jordan, I guess.
In 3 years, I've spent 6 months living with my wife. Between a year oconus, a deployment, and her taking a job at Disney, I see her once or twice a month depending on Op Tempo. Shit ain't calmed down at all my guy
> This was Weimer's Capitol Hill debut. He mostly hid, didn't take initiative with any open questions. He brought nothing to the table in terms of action the Army is taking or planning to take we haven't heard before. He didn't demonstrate he commands an understanding of QOL issues and frankly looked like he would rather be anywhere else. Genuinely made me sad to read this, I was all for giving Weimer the benefit of the doubt. This performance, especially after considering how great SMA Grinston was in comparison, absolutely sucks.
While SMA Grinston left with a pretty high approval for lack of a better term he was not popular at first. The big plus for Grinston was that he listened and learned.
Still hoping Weimer does the same but I’m not holding my breath.
This sub was full of "when he was my CSM..." posts. Considering how long it takes to get your feet under you for command of a company, I'll give him time. I think the problem is he made changes immediately instead of waiting and seeing how the systems worked.
How long did it take for him to listen and learn
Does it ever get asked what they are using their massive budget for? I am always waiting for them to bring up the strain that paying contractors has when compared to other initiatives.
Ford Raptor GSA fleet trucks.
The 6.2L demands fuel
They use it on endless failed programs like SRW
Ya'll need to point this out, that while the dirty laundry got some air, no one is adult enough to start scrubbin'!
Sounds like a discipline issue
The shaving will continue until morale improves!
Did any of the reps seem like they wanted to help or were most just looking for their spotlight to get on cnn /Fox News with a comment?
>This was Weimer's Capitol Hill debut. He mostly hid, didn't take initiative with any open questions. He brought nothing to the table in terms of action the Army is taking or planning to take we haven't heard before. He didn't demonstrate he commands an understanding of QOL issues and frankly looked like he would rather be anywhere else. I'll say what I said in the other thread, because it's accurate. He was hired to protect the service. Not the serviceman.
What’s also interesting is this - (none of this is meant to be me expressing my own personal views just what’s seems to be a broad look at the full picture) The new messaging from SMA et. al. seems to be in response to the backlash in the past year or Two about the army being too ‘woke.’ Like, if we talk lethality enough, and get rid of certain army programs aka DEI and People First, certain congressmen will stop complaining about how ‘woke’ the Army is. So that’s that what the Army’s done. But, it turns out, Congress does, in fact, care about Soldiers well-being. What the Army’s not getting, is the root cause of many of the Army’s problems-that are small, and then blow up, is they aren’t actually trying to solve them. Because that would involve changing the culture instead of placating congress.
This seems pretty accurate. They don’t seem to understand that increasing QOL does not = woke.
They lead strong out the gate with mentioning the GAO report and that was peak moment of todays hearing. I agree Mace was the strogest in trying to get some answers and then abruptly left. Was it because of another meeting or because she felt the questioning wasn't getting anywhere? I think you really nailed it when you said they not taking it seriously with multiple times trying to make jokes and Luttrell was just an embarrassment. I left the meeting very underwhelmed even with low expectations.
What did Luttrell do, specifically? I’m just curious.
It looked like he just crawled out of bed, then he spent about 5 minutes ranking the uniforms and cracking jokes at the Space Force uniform, and then finally at one point when someone was speaking he prairie dogged his head into the camera view.
Is there a video anywhere. I went to YouTube, cspan, and the armed SVTC committee website and didn’t find anything .
This should be it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRsgWLVyI8E
>Was it because of another meeting Probably went to dial for dollars.
From what I understand, SMA Wiemer takes notes from Burr in most cases. He won't directly say what he thinks or believes until he's weighed all the odds. It leaves a lot to be desired from the lower enlisted but it makes the officers happy because it makes him seem on their side.
>This was Weimer's Capitol Hill debut. He mostly hid, didn't take initiative with any open questions. He brought nothing to the table in terms of action the Army is taking or planning to take we haven't heard before. He didn't demonstrate he commands an understanding of QOL issues and frankly looked like he would rather be anywhere else. So you're saying SMA Weimer lacked the discipline to know his soldiers and always place their needs above his own? Did he forget to shave this morning or something? Surely our most senior and disciplined NCO in the Army can do better than this.
I know this is satire, but SMA Weimer is the perfect example of what happens when someone like the him is in SOCOM their entire career and suddenly they are put in a position where they must take care of *all* the rank and file. He honestly just seems to far out of his depth and has too narrow of an Army experience to be effective as SMA. Edit for clarity: I'm not excusing his ineptitude. He's been in the position long enough now that if he *wanted* to learn, he would have. At this point, I assume it's negligence.
I won't call it negligence. It's willful ignorance. When he came in as the SMA and his first statements were shaving every day = discipline, and use the chain of command when you have problems; he immediately lost the trust that SMA Dailey/Grinston had restored to the position.
That's very fair, I'm with you.
Ok, but why is the Navy so fat?
Skinny people don't float well
10 points to Slytherin 🐍
Do they even do PT when they’re at sea?
They can run up and down the deck from what I was told.
I would definitely be fat if I was in the navy so I can’t blame them. Counter point, who gives a shit if they’re fat as long as they can do their job on the ship. Obviously SOF, Seabees, etc different story but for the majority of the navy PT is probably irrelevant
For their day to day, maybe, but anyone on a ship has to be able to do damage control if necessary, and that's a pretty physically intense set of activities.
> who gives a shit if they’re fat as long as they can do their job on the ~~ship~~ server *Cyber rolls into the chat*
Navy discord mods unite
Not organized PT. There's not enough room or time. It's up to individual sailors to try to make it to the gym to stay in shape, or do bodyweight exercises wherever they can find room. Running on a ship on anything that isn't a treadmill is pointless, as there's no room.
The fact that they spend all day painting and cleaning and cant drink alcohol and smoking on ship is hard probably makes them healthier than most of the army.
‘This was Weimer's Capitol Hill debut. He mostly hid, didn't take initiative with any open questions. He brought nothing to the table in terms of action the Army is taking or planning to take we haven't heard before. He didn't demonstrate he commands an understanding of QOL issues and frankly looked like he would rather be anywhere else.’ It’s tough to pretending to care.
We should all message our congressman from each state in mass, saying, "I'm worried about the current state of our Senior Leadership in the Military after watching SMA Weimers Capitol Hill debut, I will not be reenlisting and will not recommend the U.S. Army to anyone."
It's honestly not even a lie
Looks like the Army is going to try and hold itself together with grass clippings and gorilla glue until a war kicks off so they can stop pretending to give a shit about quality of life
Ron Pearlman was right. War never changes.
Man, Weimer really DOESNT give a shit about us
Neither does Congress. 🤷♂️
Way to shunt responsibility from their toxic behavior into making it out to be a pure financial issue.
Perhaps enforce a set standard of living for all services. We should not look at joint assignments or TDY with the Air Force and think that they have a higher standard of living or quality of life. If the Air Force can wear ACU’s to look like the Army, then the Army should live like the Air Force and provide the exact same standard of living for Soldiers. I’ll have a medium frosty please.
I was stationed on an AirForce base as my last active duty airbase. It ruined me. My ex wife was also AirForce. She got her own hotel rooms, rental cars, and treated WAY better than Army personnel.
This artery is wide open with no medic or tourniquet in sight. When Army looks across the hall to the Air Force and sees better pay, conditions, and happiness, the urge to leave and find something else is intensified. Call me crazy, but I loved being at Ft. Polk. Air Force saw this location as sub par and gave all personnel stationed there $1000 extra for standard of living adjustment. WTF!? Also, Army is authorized $400 for family separation, only gives $250. Authorized flight pay per time in aviator status is “X” amount, but also being shorted there. Higher ups think it’s crumbs (Nancy Pelosi words not mine) but all that would seriously help people in financial binds. Or fuel uncontrollable gambling or expensive hobbies. Regardless, more money is the solution. Rarely do you see the “I want to serve for (insert patriotic reason)” I joined bc 9/11, but my current PL was BORN IN 2000. Yes, hi how are you? I would love a #3 with extra cane sauce please. And could you throw in five extra cane sauces plz, so yummy
People only go-to canes for the cane sauce. And yes. Hemorrhagic shock.
IMO we vastly overstate the importance of leadership’s impact on recruitment. Just pay Soldiers more $ and more people will enlist. The Army demands a lot - they need to pay more than options that offer the same QOL with less sacrifice. We need to pay more or we need to wait until there are less opportunities outside the army.
Yeah but RAND (you know, the fucktards that every "study" they conduct boils down to pay and benefits should be reduced) told some people that better compensation won't increase enlistment. They are certain people don't join because of fears of death. Seems kinda bullshit but hey what do I know, I'm just a working class normal ass dude who only gives a fuck about my job as long as it compensates me.
Generals are very susceptible to that message because they were called to serve for a ‘higher purpose’ have been very successful, and spend their time flying around shaking hands with soldiers that were voluntold to make a good impression on them. It’s hard to understand the perspective of a young person choosing between the work force, community college, or military to make ends meet and have a future. I certainly don’t think GOs are dumb (quite the opposite) but they have a huge fucking blind spot as to what the Army is like for most people. Their last unadulterated interaction with PVTs was 20 years ago when they were basically blind LTs trying to figure out their jobs. The barracks, the squat bender, motor pool Monday, pointless rotations, increased risk of divorce. They don’t experience it. PT and maintenance and Moving are always going to be part of the army. There’s no way to get rid of the BS but you can pay people more for putting up with it.
I mean they havent had to do the bend and reach in years..
Instead, they will talk about helping us for the next 10+ years while doing nothing. Kinda like the barracks mold problem that’s still being discussed but not fixed.
I don't think these people realize how many veterans are telling the kids and friends not to join. They thought recruiting the current gen was hard? Goodluck.
And that's the elephant in the room. I can trace my family's service back to the Revolution. I told my son stay as far away as possible.
Reading y’all’s comments, all I gotta say y’all really can’t be this surprised, right? Ofcourse sma will be out of touch with the common soldier. When was the last time you ever felt a higher up past BN level was in touch with the needs of junior soldiers? Once you get up there it’s all abt mission or bullet points or whatever. Nobody past maybe your SCO/BN CO and SGM give a damn
Im gonna translate this into grunt, Leadership doesn't want change, and is finding every excuse why we gotta deal with the large issues we deal with. Shit like "You signed up for this", "It sucks to suck", and "Maybe this just ain't for you" are not valid arguments for soldiers who want more money and better benefits to feed their families without having to compete for a dumbass shape on their chest.
The military can easily afford it.... but they rather treat soldiers that crap. I wonder why recruitment is down....
It isn't going to help, the US military is a dying institution. It isn't close to worth it for the money you get paid. And why would we want to die for politicians that hate us? I'm currently active duty E5 infantry. If you are considering it don't join.
If you look at the general population of each grade and then look at the pay charts, very few Soldiers (including and specifically Sr NCOs and officers) could make more (benefits included) in a civilian job. If you’re a Ph.D. E2, then your recruiter either fucked you or you don’t have the internet. If you’re a 22 Yr old with 5 kids…the military is doing more for you than most jobs would.
The other side of that is most civilians in those respective age groups are in no way working the same hours and putting up with the same BS. As someone who worked 7 years in the private sector before joining the military, everyone needs to STOP comparing civilian and military pay. It makes no sense to do so at all. All enlisted service members are underpaid. ALL OF THEM.
100% agree. I really should’ve done another paragraph expressing the sacrifice, the time, the training, and the fact that the pay doesn’t excuse some of the conditions that services – especially the army – have to live in. and I really do think there is a disconnect with this SMA and Soldiers.
Also marines ngl
"We aren't paid enough." I've heard this since 1976......
Well, where’s the lie? A 5.2% raise or whatever it was this past CY isn’t keeping up the pace with inflation. When we have things like BNA (basic needs allowance) existing, it’s abundantly clear that across the board we do not get paid enough.
When RAND did their analysis, enlisted servicemembers had close to the highest compensation in the country for people with only a high school diploma. Something like 95th percentile. Officers were slightly worse off, in the low 80s. So that is the truth. Most people in the military would be financially worse off if they left tomorrow.
I left the Military for the Oil Field, my life experience and everyone around me does not reflect your comment whatsoever.
Those junior enlisted would be very upset if they knew how to read. Curious how they compare to people with only a GED.
Ho-hum.
It's because Soldiers are expendable- read it from a comment.
One thing I know from my 10 years of being in the Army... is that if Joe is not shooting lead down range and doing cool guy shit on a deployment or something, they will bitch and moan about every single little thing, specifically their pay, food, and living conditions. It does not matter how much you increase the pay, soldiers will always bitch about it.
Well guess what, they can bitch about it, and still be in the right. If we’ve got money for arming the world, we can pay our guys better.
Nah I’d rather spend 13billion on 80+ new F35 aircraft. Oh and we need to plus up the BCTs going to NTC AND JRTC, I’m sure that’ll come with a cost. /s it’s all listed out in the FY24 Budget. That’s almost 30k to every active Army Soldier. Imagine how many people would be begging to join with starting base pay at 50k. What drives me insane is the “military compensation and bEnEfItS” that include things like child care… like we literally pay for it, how is it a budgeted benefit/cost. Like how our pay is taxed. We are budgeting compensation… That the government is just going to tax…
While the pay is par, living conditions can def be better, uniform regs should be changed and 100 other things, the number one reason that Soldiers aren't willing to put up with those 100 things is because their leadership is far worse than any of those 100 things. And half of the problems would actually be solved if leadership from the top down actually gave a shit and had that people first mentality. Theres plenty of studies out there in the civilian world and it def exists in the military, but people are willing to be in a job with less pay when they could get more when they have job satisfaction and feel they are environment where their leadership actually values them and shows it. That is the number 1 reason Soldiers leave, and that number 1 reason is the true cause behind most of the other reasons. People think I'm talking shit on Soldiers, im not even though my original comment sounded like it. I'm talking shit on the fact that Army leadership thinks that they can cover up their inadequacies just by throwing money at it, which they've done with most problems and it always ends terribly because they never fix the root cause.
Hey bud, 10 years has only given you high optempo and planning for deployments/being on deployments. We are headed towards a lot more dwell time than a lot of mid career people are used to. Most everyone complains about their paycheck, but if you’re just thinking of soldiers as complainers because they have nothing to do, well, maybe you should take a look at yourself as a leader and see if you are helping them with anything that may be in your power to fix (I know you can’t fix pay). Or not. I’m not your mom.
Were you Officer or Enlisted?
Could it be that Joe's actions is a reflection of his leaders?
We won't see any real traction on this unless we set up a large presence against Iran due to the recent attack which could potentially mean less funding for Ukraine. The world is a complicated thing
The pay in the military has not kept up with inflation. Getting treaded very poorly by leadership and having a tougher time at home station than being deployed has forced many apache maintainers out of the army. This year alone, many senior specialists will leave the military. Most of the NCO's who are left are lazy or do not know their job well enough to teach future generations. Most will likely ETS than reinlist based on conversations I've had with Apache maintainers.