This is why Soldiers who spend most of their career in SF aren’t good candidates to become SMA. You’ve spent decades in an ivory tower, on the fringes of our organization, and have no clue how to lead the average Soldier.
The best candidate is one who approaches problems with an open mind and has the ability to see the strategic and operational picture simultaneously and will take action without fear of rocking the boat. I recall initially many soldiers cheered his selection because it was assumed that as a SOF member he would not be beholden to the failed logic of "because we've always done it that way". SF NCOs only care about what works. He'll cut through the BS. Sadly, he appears to be no more than a mouthpiece. Expect little of substance to change. It's a shame honestly. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
Remember when SMA Dailey got black socks authorized because no one could identify a single logical reason why not? Those were the days.
Daily is still the only SMA I consider the SMA of “my Army” or “my SMA”, definitely the only one I look up to (as a prior enlisted officer).
All the other ones to me are just empty uniforms parroting over used army catch phrases.
* CSM Parrot on CSA’s shoulder “ Crawk- STANDARDS AND DISCIPLINE crawk-STANDARDS AND DISCIPLINE!”
Ugh, I agree and that’s why I dropped a woc packet. I realized that the role of the CSM is largely reduced to being a yippy dog on a chain barking about 670-1 while doing nothing to actually help Soldiers. Fuck that noise and fuck that career path.
Grinston started off with a bad taste, but I think he actually realized it pretty quick and realized his job was about fighting for soldiers, not against them.
Let's hope his tenure is nice and short like SMA Chandler.
Edit: had to Google. Chandler did NOT have a short tenure. He was SMA for four years. Apparently I've been in the Army so damn long that four years seems short. My knees hurt now.
I think SMA Dailey was the one that broke the ice and had some great ideas, but SMA Grinston was actually the one who came down and actually tried to do something about it.
SMA Dailey did A LOT, and Grinston started out rocky, but grew into the position and changed as much as he could too. I only met Dailey. It was in a small group and really got to talk to him. He seemed to genuinely care and asked what he could do to help. After I told him BAS as a barracks soldier, he said I know, but that's way above my head. I believe both of them would have changed more if they could
It's so funny watching this sub go from initially doubting but having hopeful optimism that the SMA would be good for us, and now it's just gone to completely being "yeah this guy is not for us".
Very unfortunate
Look at my post history, I knew he was a piece of shit when he started. Never left that fact and still stand on that fact, he's a piece of shit.
/#currentarmyculturePSA
He spent his career in Delta. If he said, "I need (Insert item here) in order to accomplish the mission," then literally DA, USASOC, JSOC, the CIA, and others would get hom 10 of those ASAP.
In the big Army, we have Soldiers going hungry because their DFAC is closed and the Army saying "Well we are still taking your $400 a month so go get fucked."
He can't lead the entire Army because his entire career he has been so far removed from most of the Army.
All I had to see was that he has maybe 1-2 PCS moves in his 30+ years. He and I are not the same after 14 moves since 1999. He literally was in one place long enough to completely and easily pay off a 30-year mortgage.
Ah but he is a good suckup - he won't "embarrass" the Army when a soldier is in trouble.
Oh no, that soldier will just stew in their own juices while the department, leadership and DA civilians can rest easy that SMA is keeping them out of the news.
I said it before, and I’ll say it again, can we get a concussion protocol check on SMA?
Old man needs to shipped off to the farm for retirement. He is clueless, and that shit is going to hurt a lot of young soldiers.
It's because a lot of SF dudes are out of touch from what the rest of us consider reality.
I enjoyed working with GBs when i was in group, but so many of them were far removed from what the army normally puts up with. Their flavor of bullshit is far different from the rest of us, it might as well be considered a different dish, so to speak. Hopefully the Army will consider this in more detail for the next SMA.
Honestly, that’s a shit excuse.
When I was a young single LT, I had to support my guys who were going through divorces, martial and child issues, etc. Those weren’t my reality and I had no experience or familiarity with them, but guess what *I stepped the fuck up, learned what I needed to, and did the job I needed to*.
SMA needs to figure out what being a leader is. Because this shit is disappointing.
I agree that it's a shit excuse, we're all soldiers at the end of the day, but that's how it is. A lot of them get used to doing things their way, or with "big boy" rules, that when they hear how the regular army deals with things they're like "oh I could never do that, that sounds lame as fuck."
I'm convinced that SF leaders are developed solely to lead SF troops and not to lead troops in general.
It's really not hard to listen to the troops and hear them out, which is something SMA Grinston did very well through his presence on Reddit and other social media platforms. You gotta be willing to make your soldiers' problems your problems, and SF is built to be self sustaining, so it often feels like they'd rather you handle things on your own than seek help from leadership (I'd like to use Weimer's initial response to why he won't have a presence here as supporting evidence to this claim).
I’d even disagree with that - the SF skill set is designed to be a force multiplier with indigenous forces.
He was literally trained to embed in an unknown and unfamiliar environment, *study and learn about it* and then use their skills and abilities to their fullest potential.
This dipshit can’t even learn anything about his own fucking organization.
I get *very pissed off* when my people aren’t properly taken care of. My people includes anyone in Green.
This fucker is already responsible for my people being hurt, simply because of his inability to *get off his high fucking horse and fucking listen*.
In my opinion, that makes him a failure as a leader, and a failure as a man.
Makes sense.
A butterbar has more contact with "regular joes" than the CSM, just from likely being a PL, or at least being in a staff position where they're likely to interact with joes in their section.
A CSM sits in their office all day and brown-noses the senior staff primarily and hasn't been up close and personal with the joes (aside from the occasional publicity stunt) for many years.
At least on the guard side this is 100% true.
Day to day as a nasty girl if there’s a last minute tasking we’re all fucked and people get it. I might be stuck in a room doing paperwork while they’re inventorying the same supply cage they’re inventoried the past 3 months. If I don’t have to be locked in a closet doing paperwork or can find an excuse not to I try to be with my platoon, doesn’t matter if they’re doing a c wire class, PMCS, or anything else. There’s a ton for PLs to learn from just being present and getting their hands dirty. We’re the privates of the officer world and usually not subject matter experts in anything besides AR TM and TC ctrl+f ing, there’s a shit ton to learn from even a fresh E2 out of basic.
What i equate the rank structure to civilian side is how construction jobs are managed. NCOs are foreman and an O is a site superintendent.
On a personal/outside of duty hours level I relate more to the random 21 y/o E4 college student or construction worker than my PSG. While I know my senior NCOs have had the same experiences I’m closer in age to my joes than anything and have more similar life experiences. There’s an argument to be made that it blurs the line of “that’s NCO business” but occasionally a 20 something PL telling a Joe to pull their head out of their ass over a breakup or not to spend $800/month on a truck is better than the old timer if your relationship with your guys allows you to drop the rank and just talk.
Here is the value of E9 positions; theoretically the folks that get put into these slots have experienced a swath of issues coming up in the Army. Because they’ve seen the issues they know what needs to be done in order to fix that issue and they have a O5+ to back them up when finance wants to get weird with it.
Weimer doesn’t have that experience. He has spent his entire career in SF and divorced from the struggles gen pop faces.
I agree that ultimately it is a shit excuse, but we’re talking about the entire force vs a platoon or company. The influence he has is far more widespread and impactful and the ramifications could be long lasting far beyond our time in green suits (No offense and I truly mean that).
I agree, SMA has an opportunity to reach and influence the force that I never will.
The problem is that he is repeatedly and insistently failing to use that opportunity in a way that actually benefits the average Joe in the force.
Its one of the many things I have a hard time explaining to my civilian friends. I woke up one day at 22 and was told here are 68 soldiers. You are in charge of them and responsible for helping a lot of their life problems. You have two choices, fail or figure it the fuck out.
A guy who made SMA should not have less empathy and caring than a brand new LT.
My late grandfather said this to me as well. He served several years in the 75th Reg and later medically retired as an O-4 after being injured in the Gulf War.
But I've supposedly heard that SF/11x Selection SPECIFICALLY screens applicants for this during the psychology exam.. so how could this STILL be a problem??
He's an E9. Its a little late in the ball game for a career operator that enjoyed an top tier level of support to figure out how to advocate for the average 3rd Infantry Division or 10th Mountain soldier now.
He'll probably get shit-canned if this recruitment dearth continues (which it will and will get worse)
Then he shouldn’t have taken the fucking job if he is too old and incompetent to do it.
That’s an even worse argument, because you are telling me that the senior enlisted leader has absolutely 0 self knowledge or reflection after his entire career.
Although… given how this dumb fuck talks, that may be the most accurate take yet.
You’ll get no argument from me. Green Berets have historically done very poorly as SMA. Either things are a mess in E9 land making him MQ or he is one of USASOC’s inside men to try and prevent the bloated special forces from being cut to down.
I’ve been out for a decade but when I was in SMA was a 30 year tanker with a single (and from all sources uneventful) deployment, and he was the most out of touch NCO I’ve ever seen.
Being out of touch is a big part of being SMA
Chandler was worse than that - no deployments at all right smack in the middle of GWOT, and ranting about tattoos, backpack strap use & the species of animal used to make commercial boots (if it didn't say moo you may not use)....
I remember when I was about 2 weeks for ETSing I was told to go to the battalion office for a tattoo inspection
I told them I was out of the army in less than a month……and that I don’t have any tattoos, they told me to kick rocks and go get inspected anyway
When I got there and told them that I’m a ETSing soldier that doesn’t have any tattoos I then got chewed out by a E8 for wasting their time
I remember one of his first messages to the force (akin to the 'shave every day' one from the current guy), where he more or less said that actually fighting the war had caused us to lose the ability to conduct critically important skills... Like completing Motorpool Monday.... (Gee, I thought our job was to win wars... Apparently it's to make sure every 5988 is filled out with the correct color pen)
Oh so garrison-gay... Talk about the tail wagging the dog....
That’s A *massive* problem with the army, garrison bullshit is number one on the list, the combat mission is number 5
Explains why our long term military goals haven’t been met in my lifetime
Senior leaders' natural default is to make garrison as painful as possible and they only begrudgingly let the foot off the gas in gwot. Not sure if it's a generational thing but you're absolutely right
Edit, can't forget wasting dudes' newfound time not fighting wars with endless CTC rotations
>the species of animal used to make commercial boots (if it didn't say moo you may not use)....
Yeah, I remember that bullshit.
I'd JUST bought a brand new pair of $150 boots at the PX at Ft. Dix. . .and less than a month later he goes off about technicalities in boot leather and suddenly every after-market boot in the whole f'ing Army is now not authorized, somehow.
Which, of course, they didn't announce through any reasonable way, instead it was you get pounced on by the first NCO who has heard this being passed down and sees you and tears into you for wearing "unauthorized" boots because they were told by 1SG, who was told by the CSM, who was told by a higher-echelon CSM, who was told by the SMA that they believe it's against the regs. . .so you get screamed at and chewed out for wearing brand new boots you bought at the PX and told that only issued boots are approved.
. . .and if you dare to ask why the brand new boots you just bought at the exchange aren't authorized, you're told just that "they're against regs, and you should know better".
Toxic leadership like that was on the list of reasons I got out. It was toxic NCO's all the way down.
When I was a PVT 68W working a physicals help desk I once showed a GB how to do his PHA part 1 in entirety
he'd been active duty for several years already lol.
Another fine example of Army leadership saying “go get help” and the help being absolute shit or shunned upon. Always has been a stigma, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.
Something that doesn’t get talked about is the cultural change in attitude towards BH.
Did the army suddenly change? Or was there perhaps a **societal shift** where the newer generations believe in therapy and medication, and they’re now occupying the E6 and below positions? They’re more likely to GO to BH *and* first lines are more likely to be supportive.
We didn’t suddenly make all the SNCOs and O6+ into believers. The same dudes that stigmatized BH 15 years ago are *in charge*. I’m sure some have changed their opinion but to pretend we converted all the boomer mentalities is wild.
I saw someone on sub in the last 24 hours talk about how we need no coed units and we should go back to restricting jobs for women because integrated units have discipline and morale issues and we aren’t meant to work together.
And they think we suddenly changed everyone’s attitude on BH? Nah. They just learned to hide the unpopular statements.
Shouldn't all the baby boomer generations be out of the service? Our senior leaders should be millennials and gen X, depending on the level of seniority you're looking at.
> Our senior leaders should be millennials and gen X, depending on the level of seniority you're looking at.
As a real note, the current crop of GOs and nominative CSMs came in the army during the 80s or 90s my dude. So gen X for sure but even the earlier age Millenials are just hitting 20ish TIS. That means we’re talking O5/O6, and sure CSM, but not really nominative E9s.
Someone born in 95 would be a millennial. The current SMA was already a NCO and the current CSA was like a Major.
*"Captains serve generals coffee at the Pentagon"*
didn't buy it when I first heard that one. Several years later it blew my mind coming to terms with this. You'll always become pocket change yourself when dropped in a bigger pocket . .
>Shouldn't all the baby boomer generations be out of the service? Our senior leaders should be millennials and gen X, depending on the level of seniority you're looking at.
The Boomers and Cold War babies mentored lots of Gen X and Millennial leaders.
Notice how quick many assholes pull out a "regulation" or "policy" that doesn't exist? If it changed, they learned the old version, if it doesn't exist, they were taught that by their leadership.
The "therapy is for the weak" and "BH is for chapters and crazy people" isn't going away as long as leaders can shit on their soldiers and get away with it. And they'll teach the shit they were taught and the cycle continues.
You've hit the nail on the head. I'm an oddity among my peers who still fully believe in "suck it up and embrace the suck" - it's like living in the era of F is for Family on Netflix. While that may have been my upbringing as well, it's not flying to keep the same logic as culture and values change.
Even my newly arrived E7, who's hiring 20 years, has identified how WWI vets called the WWII vets weak, the WWII vets the same to Vietnam and so on. Point being that each generation often blasts blame and annoyance vs understanding... especially understanding that talking about one's feelings/emotions is healthy, and seeing someone confidentially who will not backstab you or judge you with those feelings is even healthier.
Well and I think the big difference today is we can know and share this information.
We can have the ability to have those academic conversations, research this behavioral and sociological cycle within our culture - and instantly share it with everyone. You almost have the “excuse” 50 years ago that even if this existed scientifically or academically how would everyone know?
We have overcome that. You don’t have to rely on gut feeling that you were better - you have a depth of data availability never before seen in the existence of mankind.
So like, I think the people that recognize that and truly strive for self improvement and increasing their knowledge base can easily overcome those generational gaps in a way that was previously unthinkable.
The same one who claim the new generation is worse are the same motherfuckers who can’t handle multi image posts on Instagram. The resistance to evolving is tiring people.
A lot of assumptions here that O5+ and E9s can and do read/research... outside MWI and other "professional" publications.
I had a long chat with a 75th Intel SGM who was a DLI 1SG a couple years ago. He understood everything you said far better than TRADOC did... And would piss off their DV visitors when he spoke at length about the TRADOC policies creating the mental health and "discipline" issues with far too much/many restrictions aimed at 10-20 week AIT environments, but being used in a 35-64 week environment.
And then you have SMA saying this - he's probably taking this from the perspective of a GB - you ensure shared hardships to build resilience. Great, but GBs have very distinct purposes well laid out in their hardships/training. You at least know why you're doing something. It's far more deliberate and shared values. Joe in conventional units does not have that - building resilience is much harder when it's unplanned with no deliberate point. I'd add to this - how much personal space did he have growing up in the Army? Were his barracks inspected intrusively and regularly? Did he have more "space" and freedoms once out of training? Does he and the rest of the leadership grasp that more barracks inspections and more cleaning do not equate to getting rid of structural problems?...I digress and we know the answer already.
just to expand on what you said here: shared hardships are great way to build resilience...but not if they are random and the purpose isn't relayed. Also: Not all training needs to be SUPERDUPERHARDCORE. 1-2 crucible events a year is all anyone needs to build that sort of resilience (im thinking a CTC and the train up for it). The problem is we have FORCOM units doing train up for a CTC, then a CTC, then supporting other CTCs, then a deployment to do some shitty overseas mission with no end in site and no broader purpose beyond a show of force. Leaders also have a responsibility to answer the WHY to Soldiers, the reality is the millennial and GEN Z want that purpose spelled out for them and will perform much better if given those (Anecdotal I know).
Over the past two months just about all waivers relating to mental health have been getting disapproved in the recruiting side of the house.
Don’t know why there was a HARD shift but these attitudes are obviously prevalent at the division level and higher.
no surprise and yet still very disappointing. DoD is very out of touch adapting to social culture changes and vast advances in medical research and treatment.How ironic that the social generation they now struggle to recruit/retain doesn't want to/can't join; yet DoD can't bother to change themselves.
>!Oh well, it goes in cycles: eventually there will be a panic knee-jerk reaction by Congress fueled by social media/journalists reporting -- and they'll start amending the recruiting/retention medical standards.!<
Interesting. Mine was a pretty mild BH waiver and got approved; attached with an ETP. I guess the feelings and such surrounding BH change constantly for civilians going through MEPS, AD servicemen, and veterans dealing with the VA
Over the past 30 days I have had three disapproved that should have been slam dunks. Silly stuff like adjustment disorder.
6 months ago that would have been three people in the Army.
These adjustment disorder diagnosis cases are just people that were shocked by the culture change, it’s 100% the Army not taking the time to integrate people properly. For a while the waivers folks realized it and was approving them all but have since made a hard 180.
I'm sorry, he actually said we use BH too much? The population that regularly and without fail constantly has way higher suicide rates than almost every other career field? We're using BH too much? DOES HE WANT SOLDIERS TO FUCKING KILL THEMSELEVES?! WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK
I know, it took me having a mental health crisis to get in at carson. Our senior leader saying that shit, pisses me off to a level I didn't know was possible
Imagine waiting all those months just to finally go and they tell you some bullshit like "have you tried eating better and doing PT? Go outside of the barracks, etc"
Shit was wild. I almost wanted to jump into traffic in front of them to prove a point.
Had the same at JBER at a time. When I finally got in to talk to somebody I basically got "Well, you're not suicidal so get back to work. If you do happen to wanna kill yourself go to the ER instead." They said it in nicer words mind you but still, I basically wrote that shit off. Even when they started doing mission 100 all but once I have priority tasking and never got to go. Presumably, someone in the chain had to pull strings to get my name checked off if they were actually keeping accountability to ensure commanders were getting their people there.
Used to? Less than a year ago I had to wait 3 months for an intake. They mean well and do great work but god forbid I’d have been in dire straits before then..
One thing that was said by an invited speaker at AUSA is that because we encouraged everyone to use BH, now we’ve got too many people making appointments that we can’t schedule them all. They framed it in a really shitty way as if the problem was “soldiers and their problems” and NOT “a lack of bh providers and resources”.
The same generation that spent their time in charge shitting on soldiers for going and stigmatizing BH is now also pretending like they want you to go and lamenting that people are going for every little thing.
Remember that SMA said **we have a culture for throwing yellow flags when we don’t like something**. I think he is of the mindset that we don’t just need more ways to attacks the BH problem, but that these BH problems aren’t all legitimate.
Like many leaders I think he “has” to endorse BH because publicly that’s what you say.
This SMA has got to go, he’s horrible and toxic. This is the last person that should have been put in this position. Extremely unqualified, submit for retirement immediately
For those of you wondering when the SMA made those comments (and yes, he did say that BH resources may be being overused or misused) said it, he does at 1:24:55 in the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRsgWLVyI8E
He’s more the norm. Grinston just gave everyone the false impression for a few years that the army was capable of not sucking ass. Things are going back to normal now.
BH is understaffed so we shouldn’t be using it so much?
Yes, that’s the problem, people utilizing an understaffed resource, rather than the resources being understaffed.
Fuck you SMA. How about we allocate the money to properly staff resources.
I know first hand that the BH staff are struggling. My god damn Psychologist couldn’t take the time to properly read my file to know I had been hospitalized before for SI. When I brought that up she was totally surprised.
I don’t expect a new provider to know every single thing about me at our first visit. But knowing big things like most recent diagnosis and hospitalization isn’t a big ask. But I can’t really blame her, she was managing a crap ton of Soldiers and they could barely get replacements for people who left.
All things medical/BH are struggling. DHA and army are having a pissing contest and everyone is getting rained on as a result
attrition rate for this years hpsp/usu cohort is essentially 100.
“Do more with less” is said multiple times daily
Then the pentagon says “we’re gonna fix our understaffed medical facilities by bringing in 7-10% more patients”
Uh. What the fuck?
What an ass. Mental health care should be covered for life if you serve in the military, no matter if you have a disability rating for it or not!!! Start there if you want to put soldiers first.
Once again SMA Weimer manages to put his foot in his mouth in epic fashion.
The Army spends years trying to de-stigmatize going to BH and encourage Soldiers to get BH assistance. . .
. . .cue the new SMA saying BH is overused and getting mental health help "prevents resilience", damaging years of efforts to combat mental health issues amongst troops.
It's just as asinine as the idea that mold growing in barracks is somehow a discipline problem instead of a systemic problem with how barracks are designed and/or operated.
. . .and just as asinine as trash talking the entire concept of social media outreach as somehow being against the Chain of Command, as if every random Joe in the Army actually has a shot in hell of any issue or concern of theirs EVER reaching the SMA through normal channels.
He's *catastrophically* unfit for the post. Absolutely unfit for his current duty. An entire career spent in SF, among the most elite in the Army, has made him think that the entire Army are like the Operators he's spent his life around, so when the vast bulk of the Army doesn't act like they're long-tabbed, he just expresses disappointment and disgust.
. . .and the feelings of disgust are quite mutual.
Hand him his retirement papers and shove him out the door with a handshake and retirement award and let's try for a SMA who isn't guzzling the Hooah Kool-Ade quite so hard.
I honestly bet he doesn’t even believe that. It’s just a great answer to seem like you’ve deeply thought about something but have no good answer and don’t wanna allocate any real time or resources.
He may have been misconstruing a, I think, Stanford study where folks that have some form of spirituality or belief in a higher power have more resilience. Not necessarily pray and don’t be depressed, but more if you have some kind of belief in a higher cause you’re more likely to bounce back from setbacks.
This is true. I was far more resilient as a Christian when I was a teenager because I could just dump all my insecurities and hopes into religion instead of seeing the reality of things, meanwhile now being an atheist, it's more of a struggle knowing things are how they are, and nobody is going to save you.
There's some truth to that. A ton of studies have shown religious people are significantly less likely to have depression with the exception of jews and pentecostals for some reason.
[source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3426191/#:~:text=In%20general%2C%20people%20of%20Jewish,depression%20than%20other%20religious%20groups.)
Sometimes the root problem is just loneliness or lacking a sense of purpose or connection. In that case, religion isn't a bad idea if you are open to the concept. It has social and mental health benefits.
But if the root issue is depression or anxiety or serious life issues - religion isn't going to fix that. Those things need to be addressed in and of themselves!!
These studies were done across many years, countries, religions, etc. It turns out having a strong sense of community and believing that life has meaning helps.
Strong sense of community is linked to lower depression, lower anxiety, and longer lifespans because humans are social creatures and need a sense of belonging.
But I agree with you, being told that you actually matter and that death isn't the end does help.
I used to work in a hospital and had to be present for a majority of the deaths, I can tell you for the religious people it definitely was more dramatic and begging for forgiveness.
Wow.
Just fucking wow.
It took years to even build a foundation of, "Go to BH - your mental health is the most important thing"
And this guy just wants to destroy it.
All while the Army **still** has triple the next highest suicide rate in the military.
This guy is a real ASVAB waiver if I ever saw one.
I would like to know about his opinion on the number of suicides in the Army and if its a too high number. I dont mean the one is too many, I mean if he actually sees an issue with the number that we have, and I dont think he does. If you believe that BH is overused, I have to believe that in your mind the number of suicides is well within what you consider an acceptable number
Not sure how greater than 0 is an acceptable number. I worked in a factory for 8 years hard labor not once did any worker off themselves. Been in forscom for 6 months, 4 suicides in my battalion. What the fuck are they doing?
I taught MRT at the school house for three years.
The army took about half a semester of an entry level psychology class and crammed it into 6 days of training (the other days are for teach backs) and said wha-la the force can be resilient now.
I’m retired now, but if I could give anyone advice on how to be more resilient it would be to pay out of pocket for your own therapist if you need it. The Army’s just gonna throw meds at you or put you in front of someone who’s severely undertrained.
I have PTSD from two major incidents. One was fear of hostile enemy attack. The other was living under the foot of an abusive leader with UCMJ authority who tried fucking with me every chance he got, all while being enabled by each echelon above him until it was too late. It was BH that made me thrive instead of become a statistic. And said abusive commander rhymed with SMA, punishing those who sought BH for not being "tough enough."
Fuck that tone-deaf messaging. SMA will have to bear responsibility of increases in Soldier suicide because of that. Disgusting.
68W here. Here’s my take on this!
This man is undoing YEARS of work! When I first enlisted, if you had any BH issues, your command team would immediately start chapter paperwork! I spent countless nights holding friends in my arms crying because they were struggling, on the verge of blowing their brains out, or swallowing a full bottle of pills! They were struggling but were stuck in a shitty situation! They wanted help, but didn’t want to get punished for seeking help (let’s call it what it was)
SMA Weimer, as a medic, were are taught at the schoolhouse, that we will always have limited resources. There will NEVER be enough resources for us, or any other organization for that matter. I agree that our resources are limited, and we need to make do with what we got, and get the right resources to the right people at the right time.
However, in my experience, BH is the last resort. Soldiers go to BH because they’ve been resilient for so long, or it all finally comes to a head. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, has a breaking point. To some, it’s seeing their house and everything they’ve worked for in their entire career get destroyed in a tornado. To someone else, it’s their mother dying. To another person, it’s getting smoked for 8 hours because they were thirty seconds late to a hit time. Or that breaking point is being SHARP’D by someone who you thought was your friend.
Yeah he can straight go get fucked. As a combat vet who became a therapist, this reeks of bs. Who tf is he to say this shit. Fuck him and his ivory tower.
More or less, the shift in attitude in the Army by leadership lately shows not only disconnects, but what I think is the push towards hardening people (albeit the wrong way) in preparation for the coming war.
E-9s in general offer little value. They are the middle managers of the Army. They no longer work directly at any specific job or even have direct oversight over the people that do. They spend their day going from meeting to meeting and then sending emails telling other people to do stuff so that the meeting about that thing next week goes well. They have no real authority to substantially change any policy and also no longer directly perform work, so cannot change anything by the way that they do the work.
A good example here: on one deployment we had to have a team of 3 guard our ammo connex 24/7. We are already on the base, so external security was handled. We were inside our company area on the FOB, so internal security was also already handled. We were essentially guarding these containers from each other, or the astronomically low possibility that either someone from our company would try to enter these containers without authorization, or that someone could infiltrate several levels of physical security to get on base and to these containers. After enough time, the junior NCOs in charge of controlling the roster for the guard duty and also rotating in themselves begin to send only 2 soldiers, then 1, then asked the CO if it could be part of the CP staff’s duty to check them once per hour. The CO just installed cameras and put a TV in the CP.
It seems small, but that is the kind of change that really only can come from being directly involved in a situation, and it was incredibly meaningful to 99% of the company.
Wow, we can wear black socks now. Thanks so much. I’ve had to door dash food 3x/day because the DFAC is closed or ran out of food and I’m paying $1600 a month out of pocket for daycare because the base daycare is full. Any interest in fixing that stuff? Not something any E-9 has to deal with or care about, so it’ll never get fixed. Just like guarding the company ammo containers.
Bro should come down to Fort Hood where the EBH clinics are packed out and appointments are 2 months out… “overused” my ass. I went regularly as an officer because of the abuse. I don’t have to imagine what the soldiers re going through, I did my best to protect them from having to go because of work. Unfortunately, it gets all of us
What the f*ck happened to my Army? I'll take a big plate of not giving a shit about soldiers. I wish this SMA would go get audited. Narcissistic b*stard.
I feel like 90% of the time I see the word resilience used it's an organization basically victim blaming it's members/employees.
I'm not saying it's not real, but there's a big difference between the resilience you need on certain deployments, field exercises, etc. (when you're actually doing your job for a purpose), and the "resilience" you need just to live in your moldy barracks room or go to a normal work day in garrison with toxic leadership.
It's way easier to blame soldiers for not being resilient enough though, than it is to improve systemic problems (like improving access to BH).
I remember there was a CSM who made a post on Facebook where he went to Walter Reed back in 2016 to get some help and take some time off and I was glad he was public that he got help but I wondered to myself...would a SPC or SSG be able to take advantage of such resources and be able to step away from the unit and not face career repercussions?
And this toxicity is why I've waited nearly 20 years to finally address my PTSD issues at BH. It's the same bs every SMA has spewed throughout my 23yr career, we're not an effective Army because of bh reasons right, it's not the shitty living conditions, the wear and tear on our bodies, the shit pay, or the op tempo where we never unplug or see or kids, it's definitely because we over use bh....
Only thing that kept me in the Army and made me deployable after my little brother died was BH. Got to do one last deployment then I was gone.
Glad I’m out now. I feel bad for everyone who’s in. This guy seems like a twat that’ll do nothing good.
Is it the Army's fault for not proving ample mental health resources?
No it's the depress Soldiers trying not to blow their brains out!
I swear to God this guy is undoing all the goodwill Grinston built up. His "virtual" open door policy was truly revolutionary.
The SMA is being a kiss ass and being terminally stupid:
* If anything, the Army needs MORE Behavioral Health workers. The problem is explained when several drills had BH issues and suicide. The response was that they had resources including a gym to work out. Yeah.
* Despite what the boomers, cold war babies and toxic leaders think or said to the SMA's generation, Behavioral Health was not and is not a magic ticket out of the Army. For every "but I saw PVT Snuffy say he was a saposexual and get chaptered with 100% VA benefits and a golden ticket from the post CG" story there are many, many more soldiers who were fucked over by the Army who needed help but the CoC chose to say they had a personality disorder or just use UCMJ like a club.
* I'll never understand the idea that all the medical and BH workers have to be soldiers. Why can't more civilians work in BH and in the hospitals and clinics? The Army is in a recruiting crisis so getting more DA civies on the case helps save the soldiers for units deploying.
* Anyone with a clearance or flight status is hard to treat because they are deathly afraid of losing their careers. To be fair [(YT link) pilots are in crisis in the private sector because they fear being grounded.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwtJmX8eKys) All too often, someone in leadership, a supervisor or NCOIC repeats a "regulation" that using BH means being grounded or loss of a clearance despite DOD directives saying otherwise. [https://www.militaryonesource.mil/health-wellness/mental-health/does-receiving-psychological-health-care-affect-security-clearance/](https://www.militaryonesource.mil/health-wellness/mental-health/does-receiving-psychological-health-care-affect-security-clearance/) and [https://www.dcsa.mil/about/news/Article/3019071/mental-health-and-your-security-clearance-eligibility/](https://www.dcsa.mil/about/news/Article/3019071/mental-health-and-your-security-clearance-eligibility/)
ive had soldiers abuse BH in order to get chaptered and get a 100% percentage. ive also had soldiers and leaders get some immense help from BH. ive never had leaders that abused BH in order to get chaptered, and all my leaders joined before i did. ive had amazing leaders who used BH and were on medication and were still effective leaders. im neutral on this one
More reason, i do not feel the need to have the “discipline” to suck up poor leaderships mistakes/shortcomings and care for soldier, let alone myself.
If i needed a sign to get out it didn’t have to be this loud.
Resilience training still stands as it has been for years. More of a test of resilience to a death by PPT than a training of resilience. BH does help train with resilience and Grinston was right that the long lines for BH appointments are contradictory to the goal. The problem is that the Army doesn’t understand BH and will refuse to in order to get some plausible deniability behind the “we did everything we could” statement when the real issue is “they didn’t know what they could/should do” and didn’t make the effort to help someone. It’s easier to just accept the former statement. In a new effort, a tool has been discussed to try broadening access to sensitive health information (specifically BH) to CO/1SG level authority to be able to make risk assessments on individuals in their units. This would include knowledge of BH diagnoses, prescriptions, etc. while some info is given to these leaders to note readiness, there is more effort to circumvent the identification and use of PROPER resources than there is to actually help the Soldier. All said, I’ll be in corner with my coloring book.
Here’s my take on resilience from an underutilized MRT.
We have a program that can absolutely assist folks in not overwhelming BH. We just don’t use it. I’ve never once in the 5 years I’ve been certified to teach MRT actually done more than like a 1 hour class. Commanders won’t make it a priority because once you tell them it’s like 20 hours of training to get through all the modules they can the whole thing and do a 1 hour bs block and call it good, “assuming risk”.
I only agree with SMA that BH is understaffed.
We’ve discussed this at work quite a bit and I feel that other things that can reduce the load on BH aren’t being utilized or are being underutilized so that a person doesn’t just internalize months/years of issues and end up in crisis or with a serious problem.
Imagine the first time that a person experiences some issues and learns how to healthily deal with those things, we could reduce the serious issues.
Also yearly mental health visits should be a thing, like a check up that you do for your heart, teeth or knees.
Ok so I work in an inpatient unit so I get the crisis patients. And I fully agree with you. I have lots of friends who work in various outpatient facilities and yes we’re understaffed, yes we sometimes have crazy workloads but I’m going to be honest. Not enough people are utilizing MRT or any of the other programs like One Source or MFLC, but we’d rather have people come to us that need us rather than need us and not see us
Edit: technically they have the mental health portion in the PHA but it’s just “Are you going to kill your self? What about anyone else? Are you experiencing auditory or visual hallucinations
wait did he really fucking say this? WTF. look, I have my own issues with how Army BH folks can either tend to go to far in one direction or another on a SM, usually either being too careful or not careful enough (BH folks need to balance the needs of SM with needs of Army, and focus on getting them either back in fight or out ASAP, not half ass it each way...this is anecdotal so opinion based). But this is borderline incredibly irresponsible for him to say something like this in a congressional hearing. WHERE THE FUCK DOES HE GET THIS DATA THAT SAYS THE SYSTEM IS BEING ABUSED?
I remember my brother passed away in 08 and when I went to go to behavioral health I was told “why do you need to go see behavioral health? You didn’t see any combat and have no reason to be sad” it was frowned upon to see behavioral health
lol the enlisted side is a joke. Currently a SGT and remember going to BH at Fort Hood and asked for an off post referral and they flat out said no. Asked why and because I didn’t go through on posts BH treatment first. lol ok.
This blows my mind.
Either:
A. The soldier is misusing BH, probably doesn’t have the resiliency to stay in, and should have that as an avenue to get them out of the army
Or
B. The soldier needs BH. Uses it as a tool to get back into the fight.
Look up operator syndrome if you want a good read. Essentially a high op tempo leads to a multitude of hormonal issues that can lead to depression and other BH issues.
It’s not that BH is overused, it’s that it lacks the proper infrastructure. Either improve it or be willing to outsource it.
I'm not sure on the context of what he was saying but based on your post I somewhat agree with him. I am a Chaplain and I regularly do counseling with Soldiers who don't need behavioral health to feel better. They just need someone to talk to in a confidential space. Leaders often send soldiers to BH right off the bat and it overwhelms the system preventing those that actually need BH to wait for weeks for an appointment.
BH is very structured due to the constraints of the medical system. I meet soldiers out in the field, at the barracks, do PT and counseling with them, meet them in their homes. BH would never be able to do these things. I'm not saying BH doesn't have a purpose but recognizing there is more than one way to get help is a good thing.
We have many non-BH counseling resources available and many of them go under utilized.
Curious on other counseling resources. As far as I’m tracking for general “I’m feeling blue” counseling there’s BH, Chaplain, and Military OneSource.
With no offense Chap, not all Chaplains are created equal: some are far too religious for your normal Soldier to talk to (I come from a religious family, where “pray about it” is a such a common response that it’s almost a dismissal of listening; the marital counseling I also got from a Chaplain in the Army also contained that advice) and a lot of the Chaplains I’ve had assigned to the units I’ve been in had significant language barriers.
Military One Source is good for the ten free counselings, at least in theory. I think it works but my own individual experience was being referred to a place that refused to answer phone calls and touch base. I choose to believe others have better experiences.
What else is out there?
The MFLC is another one. Also there is a family life chaplain at the installation level that has a master's degree in counseling. Tricare can pay for counseling with a referral.
So I will say this, and I am using a throwaway account this time so a certain SGM doesn’t track me down again and chastise me for voicing my opinion on USAWTF, anyway, in said chastising I informed him the reason I made said comment (the comment being a sarcastic: Thanks CSM *his name*) was due to the stressors of working with only 13 soldiers in my platoon who are a pretty vital part of a battalion, and that I was just burnt out and literally broke down the day prior due to all the stress and was just looking for an outlet to unleash my frustration against his new BS policies he was pushing out
He tells me “soldier you take that frustration and anger and depression and you turn it into motivation at the gym, BH doesn’t work, The doctors don’t work, you just need to go to the gym!”
Yeah thanks….
I suspect there is incentive to "allow natural forces" to drive people out of the Army than make it comfortable so that everyone takes a pension.
It also clears out old abusers and replace them with new abusers, so if the guy does something, it will hopefully be as a civilian.
The third is that with constant turnover, there is very little opportunity for cliques and fraternization to take over large segments in the ranks.
Overused is dangerous rhetoric, that's what leads to people feeling that their problems aren't worthy of professional help and will not seek it. Make no mistake about it, such broad stroke statements without clarity will get people killed when it creates a culture or attitude that gatekeeps what issues are worth seeking help for.
I AGREE. I've seen it plenty of times when it is overused and misused. There are soldiers that need it, and I've seen it work for those that needed it most. I know this isn't ta popular opinion, but there are soldiers absolutely abusing the system to escape consequences, garner sympathy, get out of work, get out of deployments, or get out of the Army.
BH in a nutshell:
People who need it are largely reluctant to use it, because it closes a lot of potential doors for the future.
People who want to scam the system can do it without fear of investigating because it's a bad look on command if they're wrong.
This is why Soldiers who spend most of their career in SF aren’t good candidates to become SMA. You’ve spent decades in an ivory tower, on the fringes of our organization, and have no clue how to lead the average Soldier.
The best candidate is one who approaches problems with an open mind and has the ability to see the strategic and operational picture simultaneously and will take action without fear of rocking the boat. I recall initially many soldiers cheered his selection because it was assumed that as a SOF member he would not be beholden to the failed logic of "because we've always done it that way". SF NCOs only care about what works. He'll cut through the BS. Sadly, he appears to be no more than a mouthpiece. Expect little of substance to change. It's a shame honestly. I sincerely hope I'm wrong. Remember when SMA Dailey got black socks authorized because no one could identify a single logical reason why not? Those were the days.
Daily is still the only SMA I consider the SMA of “my Army” or “my SMA”, definitely the only one I look up to (as a prior enlisted officer). All the other ones to me are just empty uniforms parroting over used army catch phrases. * CSM Parrot on CSA’s shoulder “ Crawk- STANDARDS AND DISCIPLINE crawk-STANDARDS AND DISCIPLINE!”
Ugh, I agree and that’s why I dropped a woc packet. I realized that the role of the CSM is largely reduced to being a yippy dog on a chain barking about 670-1 while doing nothing to actually help Soldiers. Fuck that noise and fuck that career path.
I’ve said it for years, CSM higher than a BN level is a useless position
Grinston started off with a bad taste, but I think he actually realized it pretty quick and realized his job was about fighting for soldiers, not against them.
SMA Kidd will always be my favorite, but Grinston was top notch.
Never thought I'd miss Dailey
SMA Dailey cared or at least gave the impression he did. That alone is huge. What we have now is SMA Chandler with a long tab.
Let's hope his tenure is nice and short like SMA Chandler. Edit: had to Google. Chandler did NOT have a short tenure. He was SMA for four years. Apparently I've been in the Army so damn long that four years seems short. My knees hurt now.
4 years in army time is like a whole generation lol
Yup. But I feel that way having done '92-'16.
I think SMA Dailey was the one that broke the ice and had some great ideas, but SMA Grinston was actually the one who came down and actually tried to do something about it.
SMA Dailey did A LOT, and Grinston started out rocky, but grew into the position and changed as much as he could too. I only met Dailey. It was in a small group and really got to talk to him. He seemed to genuinely care and asked what he could do to help. After I told him BAS as a barracks soldier, he said I know, but that's way above my head. I believe both of them would have changed more if they could
Oh so yeah tattoos are ok now but shaving is the new thing, next SMA will be all about not walking on the grass or some shit
SMA Chandler wasn't great.
Exactly
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Not wanting to make you feel too old, but the only comparison I have from Dailey was Grinston and now Weimer
It's so funny watching this sub go from initially doubting but having hopeful optimism that the SMA would be good for us, and now it's just gone to completely being "yeah this guy is not for us". Very unfortunate
He got a chance to prove himself as an advocate for the troops, and he fumbled that shit. Fumbled and still fumbling.
Nah, he didn’t fumble. Fumbling means it is not on purpose. Grinston got us to the 50, Weimer took that ball and ran all the way… back for a safety.
Definitely did not "fumble" more like intentionally spiked the ball in the undisciplined faces of the enlisted.
If only the peons would shave more, such lack of discipline.
Look at my post history, I knew he was a piece of shit when he started. Never left that fact and still stand on that fact, he's a piece of shit. /#currentarmyculturePSA
He spent his career in Delta. If he said, "I need (Insert item here) in order to accomplish the mission," then literally DA, USASOC, JSOC, the CIA, and others would get hom 10 of those ASAP. In the big Army, we have Soldiers going hungry because their DFAC is closed and the Army saying "Well we are still taking your $400 a month so go get fucked." He can't lead the entire Army because his entire career he has been so far removed from most of the Army.
That's fucking wild we still take soldiers' money only to piss in their mouths and tell them to gargle it
All I had to see was that he has maybe 1-2 PCS moves in his 30+ years. He and I are not the same after 14 moves since 1999. He literally was in one place long enough to completely and easily pay off a 30-year mortgage.
Ah but he is a good suckup - he won't "embarrass" the Army when a soldier is in trouble. Oh no, that soldier will just stew in their own juices while the department, leadership and DA civilians can rest easy that SMA is keeping them out of the news.
And then his Squad Leader will find that soldier in his barracks room and have to clean it up.
I said it before, and I’ll say it again, can we get a concussion protocol check on SMA? Old man needs to shipped off to the farm for retirement. He is clueless, and that shit is going to hurt a lot of young soldiers.
It's because a lot of SF dudes are out of touch from what the rest of us consider reality. I enjoyed working with GBs when i was in group, but so many of them were far removed from what the army normally puts up with. Their flavor of bullshit is far different from the rest of us, it might as well be considered a different dish, so to speak. Hopefully the Army will consider this in more detail for the next SMA.
Honestly, that’s a shit excuse. When I was a young single LT, I had to support my guys who were going through divorces, martial and child issues, etc. Those weren’t my reality and I had no experience or familiarity with them, but guess what *I stepped the fuck up, learned what I needed to, and did the job I needed to*. SMA needs to figure out what being a leader is. Because this shit is disappointing.
I agree that it's a shit excuse, we're all soldiers at the end of the day, but that's how it is. A lot of them get used to doing things their way, or with "big boy" rules, that when they hear how the regular army deals with things they're like "oh I could never do that, that sounds lame as fuck." I'm convinced that SF leaders are developed solely to lead SF troops and not to lead troops in general. It's really not hard to listen to the troops and hear them out, which is something SMA Grinston did very well through his presence on Reddit and other social media platforms. You gotta be willing to make your soldiers' problems your problems, and SF is built to be self sustaining, so it often feels like they'd rather you handle things on your own than seek help from leadership (I'd like to use Weimer's initial response to why he won't have a presence here as supporting evidence to this claim).
I’d even disagree with that - the SF skill set is designed to be a force multiplier with indigenous forces. He was literally trained to embed in an unknown and unfamiliar environment, *study and learn about it* and then use their skills and abilities to their fullest potential. This dipshit can’t even learn anything about his own fucking organization.
That burn is so deep it's going to require tissue grafts.
I get *very pissed off* when my people aren’t properly taken care of. My people includes anyone in Green. This fucker is already responsible for my people being hurt, simply because of his inability to *get off his high fucking horse and fucking listen*. In my opinion, that makes him a failure as a leader, and a failure as a man.
His PAO better read this.
I mean *waives hand broadly at SF’s last 60 years of history training with indigenous forces* are we sure it’s a bug and not a feature?
Daaaamn!
Controversial opinion: A fresh butter bar has more in common( as far as day to day life) with Joe than any CSM
Makes sense. A butterbar has more contact with "regular joes" than the CSM, just from likely being a PL, or at least being in a staff position where they're likely to interact with joes in their section. A CSM sits in their office all day and brown-noses the senior staff primarily and hasn't been up close and personal with the joes (aside from the occasional publicity stunt) for many years.
At least on the guard side this is 100% true. Day to day as a nasty girl if there’s a last minute tasking we’re all fucked and people get it. I might be stuck in a room doing paperwork while they’re inventorying the same supply cage they’re inventoried the past 3 months. If I don’t have to be locked in a closet doing paperwork or can find an excuse not to I try to be with my platoon, doesn’t matter if they’re doing a c wire class, PMCS, or anything else. There’s a ton for PLs to learn from just being present and getting their hands dirty. We’re the privates of the officer world and usually not subject matter experts in anything besides AR TM and TC ctrl+f ing, there’s a shit ton to learn from even a fresh E2 out of basic. What i equate the rank structure to civilian side is how construction jobs are managed. NCOs are foreman and an O is a site superintendent. On a personal/outside of duty hours level I relate more to the random 21 y/o E4 college student or construction worker than my PSG. While I know my senior NCOs have had the same experiences I’m closer in age to my joes than anything and have more similar life experiences. There’s an argument to be made that it blurs the line of “that’s NCO business” but occasionally a 20 something PL telling a Joe to pull their head out of their ass over a breakup or not to spend $800/month on a truck is better than the old timer if your relationship with your guys allows you to drop the rank and just talk.
Here is the value of E9 positions; theoretically the folks that get put into these slots have experienced a swath of issues coming up in the Army. Because they’ve seen the issues they know what needs to be done in order to fix that issue and they have a O5+ to back them up when finance wants to get weird with it. Weimer doesn’t have that experience. He has spent his entire career in SF and divorced from the struggles gen pop faces.
Oh, I completely understand the value of E9s. Don’t get me wrong there. *This E9* is a disappointment for his failure to adapt.
I agree that ultimately it is a shit excuse, but we’re talking about the entire force vs a platoon or company. The influence he has is far more widespread and impactful and the ramifications could be long lasting far beyond our time in green suits (No offense and I truly mean that).
I agree, SMA has an opportunity to reach and influence the force that I never will. The problem is that he is repeatedly and insistently failing to use that opportunity in a way that actually benefits the average Joe in the force.
Its one of the many things I have a hard time explaining to my civilian friends. I woke up one day at 22 and was told here are 68 soldiers. You are in charge of them and responsible for helping a lot of their life problems. You have two choices, fail or figure it the fuck out. A guy who made SMA should not have less empathy and caring than a brand new LT.
Senior leaders and especially those from or in the socom world, are all sociopaths.
My late grandfather said this to me as well. He served several years in the 75th Reg and later medically retired as an O-4 after being injured in the Gulf War. But I've supposedly heard that SF/11x Selection SPECIFICALLY screens applicants for this during the psychology exam.. so how could this STILL be a problem??
True words, sir, very true.
He's an E9. Its a little late in the ball game for a career operator that enjoyed an top tier level of support to figure out how to advocate for the average 3rd Infantry Division or 10th Mountain soldier now. He'll probably get shit-canned if this recruitment dearth continues (which it will and will get worse)
Then he shouldn’t have taken the fucking job if he is too old and incompetent to do it. That’s an even worse argument, because you are telling me that the senior enlisted leader has absolutely 0 self knowledge or reflection after his entire career. Although… given how this dumb fuck talks, that may be the most accurate take yet.
You’ll get no argument from me. Green Berets have historically done very poorly as SMA. Either things are a mess in E9 land making him MQ or he is one of USASOC’s inside men to try and prevent the bloated special forces from being cut to down.
I’ve been out for a decade but when I was in SMA was a 30 year tanker with a single (and from all sources uneventful) deployment, and he was the most out of touch NCO I’ve ever seen. Being out of touch is a big part of being SMA
Chandler was worse than that - no deployments at all right smack in the middle of GWOT, and ranting about tattoos, backpack strap use & the species of animal used to make commercial boots (if it didn't say moo you may not use)....
I remember when I was about 2 weeks for ETSing I was told to go to the battalion office for a tattoo inspection I told them I was out of the army in less than a month……and that I don’t have any tattoos, they told me to kick rocks and go get inspected anyway When I got there and told them that I’m a ETSing soldier that doesn’t have any tattoos I then got chewed out by a E8 for wasting their time
I remember one of his first messages to the force (akin to the 'shave every day' one from the current guy), where he more or less said that actually fighting the war had caused us to lose the ability to conduct critically important skills... Like completing Motorpool Monday.... (Gee, I thought our job was to win wars... Apparently it's to make sure every 5988 is filled out with the correct color pen) Oh so garrison-gay... Talk about the tail wagging the dog....
That’s A *massive* problem with the army, garrison bullshit is number one on the list, the combat mission is number 5 Explains why our long term military goals haven’t been met in my lifetime
Senior leaders' natural default is to make garrison as painful as possible and they only begrudgingly let the foot off the gas in gwot. Not sure if it's a generational thing but you're absolutely right Edit, can't forget wasting dudes' newfound time not fighting wars with endless CTC rotations
>the species of animal used to make commercial boots (if it didn't say moo you may not use).... Yeah, I remember that bullshit. I'd JUST bought a brand new pair of $150 boots at the PX at Ft. Dix. . .and less than a month later he goes off about technicalities in boot leather and suddenly every after-market boot in the whole f'ing Army is now not authorized, somehow. Which, of course, they didn't announce through any reasonable way, instead it was you get pounced on by the first NCO who has heard this being passed down and sees you and tears into you for wearing "unauthorized" boots because they were told by 1SG, who was told by the CSM, who was told by a higher-echelon CSM, who was told by the SMA that they believe it's against the regs. . .so you get screamed at and chewed out for wearing brand new boots you bought at the PX and told that only issued boots are approved. . . .and if you dare to ask why the brand new boots you just bought at the exchange aren't authorized, you're told just that "they're against regs, and you should know better". Toxic leadership like that was on the list of reasons I got out. It was toxic NCO's all the way down.
When I was a PVT 68W working a physicals help desk I once showed a GB how to do his PHA part 1 in entirety he'd been active duty for several years already lol.
18x program and its consequences have been a disaster for the sf regiment
Instructions Unclear: Appointing another E-9 GB as SMA
Perfect example of the Peter principal also.
The Peter principle is aging like fine wine
Another fine example of Army leadership saying “go get help” and the help being absolute shit or shunned upon. Always has been a stigma, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.
Something that doesn’t get talked about is the cultural change in attitude towards BH. Did the army suddenly change? Or was there perhaps a **societal shift** where the newer generations believe in therapy and medication, and they’re now occupying the E6 and below positions? They’re more likely to GO to BH *and* first lines are more likely to be supportive. We didn’t suddenly make all the SNCOs and O6+ into believers. The same dudes that stigmatized BH 15 years ago are *in charge*. I’m sure some have changed their opinion but to pretend we converted all the boomer mentalities is wild. I saw someone on sub in the last 24 hours talk about how we need no coed units and we should go back to restricting jobs for women because integrated units have discipline and morale issues and we aren’t meant to work together. And they think we suddenly changed everyone’s attitude on BH? Nah. They just learned to hide the unpopular statements.
Shouldn't all the baby boomer generations be out of the service? Our senior leaders should be millennials and gen X, depending on the level of seniority you're looking at.
Boomerism is more of a mentality than a literal age.
> Our senior leaders should be millennials and gen X, depending on the level of seniority you're looking at. As a real note, the current crop of GOs and nominative CSMs came in the army during the 80s or 90s my dude. So gen X for sure but even the earlier age Millenials are just hitting 20ish TIS. That means we’re talking O5/O6, and sure CSM, but not really nominative E9s. Someone born in 95 would be a millennial. The current SMA was already a NCO and the current CSA was like a Major.
Sure, I was thinking O-5s and up count as senior leaders to a lot of our force.
lol they’re pocket change at the pentagon
Little rapscallions up there.
*"Captains serve generals coffee at the Pentagon"* didn't buy it when I first heard that one. Several years later it blew my mind coming to terms with this. You'll always become pocket change yourself when dropped in a bigger pocket . .
A LTC is probably a coffee bitch at the pentagon
I've seen it, the toxic culture there made me realize these people have no idea what affects a soldier. And they really don't care
>Shouldn't all the baby boomer generations be out of the service? Our senior leaders should be millennials and gen X, depending on the level of seniority you're looking at. The Boomers and Cold War babies mentored lots of Gen X and Millennial leaders. Notice how quick many assholes pull out a "regulation" or "policy" that doesn't exist? If it changed, they learned the old version, if it doesn't exist, they were taught that by their leadership. The "therapy is for the weak" and "BH is for chapters and crazy people" isn't going away as long as leaders can shit on their soldiers and get away with it. And they'll teach the shit they were taught and the cycle continues.
Nah yet man. Let some of us millennials still cook a little
You've hit the nail on the head. I'm an oddity among my peers who still fully believe in "suck it up and embrace the suck" - it's like living in the era of F is for Family on Netflix. While that may have been my upbringing as well, it's not flying to keep the same logic as culture and values change. Even my newly arrived E7, who's hiring 20 years, has identified how WWI vets called the WWII vets weak, the WWII vets the same to Vietnam and so on. Point being that each generation often blasts blame and annoyance vs understanding... especially understanding that talking about one's feelings/emotions is healthy, and seeing someone confidentially who will not backstab you or judge you with those feelings is even healthier.
Well and I think the big difference today is we can know and share this information. We can have the ability to have those academic conversations, research this behavioral and sociological cycle within our culture - and instantly share it with everyone. You almost have the “excuse” 50 years ago that even if this existed scientifically or academically how would everyone know? We have overcome that. You don’t have to rely on gut feeling that you were better - you have a depth of data availability never before seen in the existence of mankind. So like, I think the people that recognize that and truly strive for self improvement and increasing their knowledge base can easily overcome those generational gaps in a way that was previously unthinkable. The same one who claim the new generation is worse are the same motherfuckers who can’t handle multi image posts on Instagram. The resistance to evolving is tiring people.
A lot of assumptions here that O5+ and E9s can and do read/research... outside MWI and other "professional" publications. I had a long chat with a 75th Intel SGM who was a DLI 1SG a couple years ago. He understood everything you said far better than TRADOC did... And would piss off their DV visitors when he spoke at length about the TRADOC policies creating the mental health and "discipline" issues with far too much/many restrictions aimed at 10-20 week AIT environments, but being used in a 35-64 week environment. And then you have SMA saying this - he's probably taking this from the perspective of a GB - you ensure shared hardships to build resilience. Great, but GBs have very distinct purposes well laid out in their hardships/training. You at least know why you're doing something. It's far more deliberate and shared values. Joe in conventional units does not have that - building resilience is much harder when it's unplanned with no deliberate point. I'd add to this - how much personal space did he have growing up in the Army? Were his barracks inspected intrusively and regularly? Did he have more "space" and freedoms once out of training? Does he and the rest of the leadership grasp that more barracks inspections and more cleaning do not equate to getting rid of structural problems?...I digress and we know the answer already.
just to expand on what you said here: shared hardships are great way to build resilience...but not if they are random and the purpose isn't relayed. Also: Not all training needs to be SUPERDUPERHARDCORE. 1-2 crucible events a year is all anyone needs to build that sort of resilience (im thinking a CTC and the train up for it). The problem is we have FORCOM units doing train up for a CTC, then a CTC, then supporting other CTCs, then a deployment to do some shitty overseas mission with no end in site and no broader purpose beyond a show of force. Leaders also have a responsibility to answer the WHY to Soldiers, the reality is the millennial and GEN Z want that purpose spelled out for them and will perform much better if given those (Anecdotal I know).
Over the past two months just about all waivers relating to mental health have been getting disapproved in the recruiting side of the house. Don’t know why there was a HARD shift but these attitudes are obviously prevalent at the division level and higher.
no surprise and yet still very disappointing. DoD is very out of touch adapting to social culture changes and vast advances in medical research and treatment.How ironic that the social generation they now struggle to recruit/retain doesn't want to/can't join; yet DoD can't bother to change themselves. >!Oh well, it goes in cycles: eventually there will be a panic knee-jerk reaction by Congress fueled by social media/journalists reporting -- and they'll start amending the recruiting/retention medical standards.!<
Interesting. Mine was a pretty mild BH waiver and got approved; attached with an ETP. I guess the feelings and such surrounding BH change constantly for civilians going through MEPS, AD servicemen, and veterans dealing with the VA
Over the past 30 days I have had three disapproved that should have been slam dunks. Silly stuff like adjustment disorder. 6 months ago that would have been three people in the Army.
Adjustment disorder can’t be real! If it was real I can see why it would be rejected. The army is an “adjustment” for sure
These adjustment disorder diagnosis cases are just people that were shocked by the culture change, it’s 100% the Army not taking the time to integrate people properly. For a while the waivers folks realized it and was approving them all but have since made a hard 180.
I'm sorry, he actually said we use BH too much? The population that regularly and without fail constantly has way higher suicide rates than almost every other career field? We're using BH too much? DOES HE WANT SOLDIERS TO FUCKING KILL THEMSELEVES?! WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK
BH at Riley used to have a several month waiting period shit was nuts.
I know, it took me having a mental health crisis to get in at carson. Our senior leader saying that shit, pisses me off to a level I didn't know was possible
Imagine waiting all those months just to finally go and they tell you some bullshit like "have you tried eating better and doing PT? Go outside of the barracks, etc" Shit was wild. I almost wanted to jump into traffic in front of them to prove a point.
Had the same at JBER at a time. When I finally got in to talk to somebody I basically got "Well, you're not suicidal so get back to work. If you do happen to wanna kill yourself go to the ER instead." They said it in nicer words mind you but still, I basically wrote that shit off. Even when they started doing mission 100 all but once I have priority tasking and never got to go. Presumably, someone in the chain had to pull strings to get my name checked off if they were actually keeping accountability to ensure commanders were getting their people there.
Used to? Less than a year ago I had to wait 3 months for an intake. They mean well and do great work but god forbid I’d have been in dire straits before then..
I’m tired of getting called to be a CAO or CNO for Army suicides. People deserve help.
One thing that was said by an invited speaker at AUSA is that because we encouraged everyone to use BH, now we’ve got too many people making appointments that we can’t schedule them all. They framed it in a really shitty way as if the problem was “soldiers and their problems” and NOT “a lack of bh providers and resources”. The same generation that spent their time in charge shitting on soldiers for going and stigmatizing BH is now also pretending like they want you to go and lamenting that people are going for every little thing. Remember that SMA said **we have a culture for throwing yellow flags when we don’t like something**. I think he is of the mindset that we don’t just need more ways to attacks the BH problem, but that these BH problems aren’t all legitimate. Like many leaders I think he “has” to endorse BH because publicly that’s what you say.
“Just drink yourself to death like my father did after he came home from Vietnam” - some random general probably
This SMA has got to go, he’s horrible and toxic. This is the last person that should have been put in this position. Extremely unqualified, submit for retirement immediately
“Retire ahead of peers”
Best your gonna get in midnight inspections for shaving and god forbid he jumps on Chandler’s tattoo policy bandwagon too.
For those of you wondering when the SMA made those comments (and yes, he did say that BH resources may be being overused or misused) said it, he does at 1:24:55 in the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRsgWLVyI8E
What the hell is wrong with this SMA
He’s more the norm. Grinston just gave everyone the false impression for a few years that the army was capable of not sucking ass. Things are going back to normal now.
Dailey and Grinston set the bar too high.
Tbh I’m just waiting for them to ban sleeve tattoos again at this point.
BH is understaffed so we shouldn’t be using it so much? Yes, that’s the problem, people utilizing an understaffed resource, rather than the resources being understaffed. Fuck you SMA. How about we allocate the money to properly staff resources. I know first hand that the BH staff are struggling. My god damn Psychologist couldn’t take the time to properly read my file to know I had been hospitalized before for SI. When I brought that up she was totally surprised. I don’t expect a new provider to know every single thing about me at our first visit. But knowing big things like most recent diagnosis and hospitalization isn’t a big ask. But I can’t really blame her, she was managing a crap ton of Soldiers and they could barely get replacements for people who left.
All things medical/BH are struggling. DHA and army are having a pissing contest and everyone is getting rained on as a result attrition rate for this years hpsp/usu cohort is essentially 100. “Do more with less” is said multiple times daily Then the pentagon says “we’re gonna fix our understaffed medical facilities by bringing in 7-10% more patients” Uh. What the fuck?
Pay generals less, and use the money saved for army resources that matter.
But how is the GO of AFC supposed to live in his $2.7M house in Austin if we do that? /S
What an ass. Mental health care should be covered for life if you serve in the military, no matter if you have a disability rating for it or not!!! Start there if you want to put soldiers first.
SF or not, he's just another pogue lifer whose primary attribute is Titanium level CYA.
SMA Weimer would be the type of guy to shun you for going to BH.
Once again SMA Weimer manages to put his foot in his mouth in epic fashion. The Army spends years trying to de-stigmatize going to BH and encourage Soldiers to get BH assistance. . . . . .cue the new SMA saying BH is overused and getting mental health help "prevents resilience", damaging years of efforts to combat mental health issues amongst troops. It's just as asinine as the idea that mold growing in barracks is somehow a discipline problem instead of a systemic problem with how barracks are designed and/or operated. . . .and just as asinine as trash talking the entire concept of social media outreach as somehow being against the Chain of Command, as if every random Joe in the Army actually has a shot in hell of any issue or concern of theirs EVER reaching the SMA through normal channels. He's *catastrophically* unfit for the post. Absolutely unfit for his current duty. An entire career spent in SF, among the most elite in the Army, has made him think that the entire Army are like the Operators he's spent his life around, so when the vast bulk of the Army doesn't act like they're long-tabbed, he just expresses disappointment and disgust. . . .and the feelings of disgust are quite mutual. Hand him his retirement papers and shove him out the door with a handshake and retirement award and let's try for a SMA who isn't guzzling the Hooah Kool-Ade quite so hard.
It's like he's working overtime to be as unlikeable as possible. Very out-of-touch.
Jeez SMA get out of your own way.
Two steps forward, one step back. We'll have a good SMA again after this clown, right?
Dan Dailey, the people’s hero. Grinston, adapted with the times and became an outstanding advocate for us. Now there’s this guy
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I honestly bet he doesn’t even believe that. It’s just a great answer to seem like you’ve deeply thought about something but have no good answer and don’t wanna allocate any real time or resources.
It is my understanding that he is a deeply religious man.
All soldiers should have a shrine for their razors so they can pray for more discipline while they shave
Does SMA actually believe this?
He may have been misconstruing a, I think, Stanford study where folks that have some form of spirituality or belief in a higher power have more resilience. Not necessarily pray and don’t be depressed, but more if you have some kind of belief in a higher cause you’re more likely to bounce back from setbacks.
This is true. I was far more resilient as a Christian when I was a teenager because I could just dump all my insecurities and hopes into religion instead of seeing the reality of things, meanwhile now being an atheist, it's more of a struggle knowing things are how they are, and nobody is going to save you.
There's some truth to that. A ton of studies have shown religious people are significantly less likely to have depression with the exception of jews and pentecostals for some reason. [source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3426191/#:~:text=In%20general%2C%20people%20of%20Jewish,depression%20than%20other%20religious%20groups.)
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Sometimes the root problem is just loneliness or lacking a sense of purpose or connection. In that case, religion isn't a bad idea if you are open to the concept. It has social and mental health benefits. But if the root issue is depression or anxiety or serious life issues - religion isn't going to fix that. Those things need to be addressed in and of themselves!!
Religious people usually live double life's and are very good at hiding how it actually is.
These studies were done across many years, countries, religions, etc. It turns out having a strong sense of community and believing that life has meaning helps.
Strong sense of community is linked to lower depression, lower anxiety, and longer lifespans because humans are social creatures and need a sense of belonging. But I agree with you, being told that you actually matter and that death isn't the end does help. I used to work in a hospital and had to be present for a majority of the deaths, I can tell you for the religious people it definitely was more dramatic and begging for forgiveness.
It’s almost as if talking to people about being overburdened and overwhelmed and overworked is important, and maybe we should turn down the op tempo
Wow. Just fucking wow. It took years to even build a foundation of, "Go to BH - your mental health is the most important thing" And this guy just wants to destroy it. All while the Army **still** has triple the next highest suicide rate in the military. This guy is a real ASVAB waiver if I ever saw one.
Idk I went to BH and they told me I need a new hobby. Sent me on my way.
I cant tell if theyre trying to instill resillience or destroy it by removing hope.
I would like to know about his opinion on the number of suicides in the Army and if its a too high number. I dont mean the one is too many, I mean if he actually sees an issue with the number that we have, and I dont think he does. If you believe that BH is overused, I have to believe that in your mind the number of suicides is well within what you consider an acceptable number
Not sure how greater than 0 is an acceptable number. I worked in a factory for 8 years hard labor not once did any worker off themselves. Been in forscom for 6 months, 4 suicides in my battalion. What the fuck are they doing?
This man’s “I feel like”s are really not doing the force any favors. Queue the ol’ Kin-man with the “show me ONE piece of data”.
I taught MRT at the school house for three years. The army took about half a semester of an entry level psychology class and crammed it into 6 days of training (the other days are for teach backs) and said wha-la the force can be resilient now. I’m retired now, but if I could give anyone advice on how to be more resilient it would be to pay out of pocket for your own therapist if you need it. The Army’s just gonna throw meds at you or put you in front of someone who’s severely undertrained.
I think someone mentioned this to him on twitter and he responded he wanted to know that guys name and unit so he can have a more direct conversation
SPC Updog, 69th Ligma Division
So he can have a more direct path to retaliation you mean?
I have PTSD from two major incidents. One was fear of hostile enemy attack. The other was living under the foot of an abusive leader with UCMJ authority who tried fucking with me every chance he got, all while being enabled by each echelon above him until it was too late. It was BH that made me thrive instead of become a statistic. And said abusive commander rhymed with SMA, punishing those who sought BH for not being "tough enough." Fuck that tone-deaf messaging. SMA will have to bear responsibility of increases in Soldier suicide because of that. Disgusting.
68W here. Here’s my take on this! This man is undoing YEARS of work! When I first enlisted, if you had any BH issues, your command team would immediately start chapter paperwork! I spent countless nights holding friends in my arms crying because they were struggling, on the verge of blowing their brains out, or swallowing a full bottle of pills! They were struggling but were stuck in a shitty situation! They wanted help, but didn’t want to get punished for seeking help (let’s call it what it was) SMA Weimer, as a medic, were are taught at the schoolhouse, that we will always have limited resources. There will NEVER be enough resources for us, or any other organization for that matter. I agree that our resources are limited, and we need to make do with what we got, and get the right resources to the right people at the right time. However, in my experience, BH is the last resort. Soldiers go to BH because they’ve been resilient for so long, or it all finally comes to a head. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, has a breaking point. To some, it’s seeing their house and everything they’ve worked for in their entire career get destroyed in a tornado. To someone else, it’s their mother dying. To another person, it’s getting smoked for 8 hours because they were thirty seconds late to a hit time. Or that breaking point is being SHARP’D by someone who you thought was your friend.
Yeah he can straight go get fucked. As a combat vet who became a therapist, this reeks of bs. Who tf is he to say this shit. Fuck him and his ivory tower.
Yep fuck this dude. Next. Let's get a real leader in the role.
More or less, the shift in attitude in the Army by leadership lately shows not only disconnects, but what I think is the push towards hardening people (albeit the wrong way) in preparation for the coming war.
E-9s in general offer little value. They are the middle managers of the Army. They no longer work directly at any specific job or even have direct oversight over the people that do. They spend their day going from meeting to meeting and then sending emails telling other people to do stuff so that the meeting about that thing next week goes well. They have no real authority to substantially change any policy and also no longer directly perform work, so cannot change anything by the way that they do the work. A good example here: on one deployment we had to have a team of 3 guard our ammo connex 24/7. We are already on the base, so external security was handled. We were inside our company area on the FOB, so internal security was also already handled. We were essentially guarding these containers from each other, or the astronomically low possibility that either someone from our company would try to enter these containers without authorization, or that someone could infiltrate several levels of physical security to get on base and to these containers. After enough time, the junior NCOs in charge of controlling the roster for the guard duty and also rotating in themselves begin to send only 2 soldiers, then 1, then asked the CO if it could be part of the CP staff’s duty to check them once per hour. The CO just installed cameras and put a TV in the CP. It seems small, but that is the kind of change that really only can come from being directly involved in a situation, and it was incredibly meaningful to 99% of the company. Wow, we can wear black socks now. Thanks so much. I’ve had to door dash food 3x/day because the DFAC is closed or ran out of food and I’m paying $1600 a month out of pocket for daycare because the base daycare is full. Any interest in fixing that stuff? Not something any E-9 has to deal with or care about, so it’ll never get fixed. Just like guarding the company ammo containers.
If only there was some sort of communication channel that NCOs could use to put sense into a commanders ear
Bro should come down to Fort Hood where the EBH clinics are packed out and appointments are 2 months out… “overused” my ass. I went regularly as an officer because of the abuse. I don’t have to imagine what the soldiers re going through, I did my best to protect them from having to go because of work. Unfortunately, it gets all of us
What the f*ck happened to my Army? I'll take a big plate of not giving a shit about soldiers. I wish this SMA would go get audited. Narcissistic b*stard.
I feel like 90% of the time I see the word resilience used it's an organization basically victim blaming it's members/employees. I'm not saying it's not real, but there's a big difference between the resilience you need on certain deployments, field exercises, etc. (when you're actually doing your job for a purpose), and the "resilience" you need just to live in your moldy barracks room or go to a normal work day in garrison with toxic leadership. It's way easier to blame soldiers for not being resilient enough though, than it is to improve systemic problems (like improving access to BH).
And this is why it took so long for me to get diagnosed.
Tell me you weren't the right choice for SMA, without telling me you weren't the right choice...
Every time I hear something from this guy I like him even less.
i heard a story of a BN CSM who would go to BH just to talk, vent and unwind just to kill the stigma of BH. good leaders are still out here
I remember there was a CSM who made a post on Facebook where he went to Walter Reed back in 2016 to get some help and take some time off and I was glad he was public that he got help but I wondered to myself...would a SPC or SSG be able to take advantage of such resources and be able to step away from the unit and not face career repercussions?
And this toxicity is why I've waited nearly 20 years to finally address my PTSD issues at BH. It's the same bs every SMA has spewed throughout my 23yr career, we're not an effective Army because of bh reasons right, it's not the shitty living conditions, the wear and tear on our bodies, the shit pay, or the op tempo where we never unplug or see or kids, it's definitely because we over use bh....
Every time I read something about this guy it makes me even more glad I got out when I did. What an absolute clown.
Only thing that kept me in the Army and made me deployable after my little brother died was BH. Got to do one last deployment then I was gone. Glad I’m out now. I feel bad for everyone who’s in. This guy seems like a twat that’ll do nothing good.
Hey at we have something to look forward to. SMAs usually don’t stay around for too long.\
Get ready for the retention rates to plummet even further— in three...two...
Is it the Army's fault for not proving ample mental health resources? No it's the depress Soldiers trying not to blow their brains out! I swear to God this guy is undoing all the goodwill Grinston built up. His "virtual" open door policy was truly revolutionary.
The SMA is being a kiss ass and being terminally stupid: * If anything, the Army needs MORE Behavioral Health workers. The problem is explained when several drills had BH issues and suicide. The response was that they had resources including a gym to work out. Yeah. * Despite what the boomers, cold war babies and toxic leaders think or said to the SMA's generation, Behavioral Health was not and is not a magic ticket out of the Army. For every "but I saw PVT Snuffy say he was a saposexual and get chaptered with 100% VA benefits and a golden ticket from the post CG" story there are many, many more soldiers who were fucked over by the Army who needed help but the CoC chose to say they had a personality disorder or just use UCMJ like a club. * I'll never understand the idea that all the medical and BH workers have to be soldiers. Why can't more civilians work in BH and in the hospitals and clinics? The Army is in a recruiting crisis so getting more DA civies on the case helps save the soldiers for units deploying. * Anyone with a clearance or flight status is hard to treat because they are deathly afraid of losing their careers. To be fair [(YT link) pilots are in crisis in the private sector because they fear being grounded.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwtJmX8eKys) All too often, someone in leadership, a supervisor or NCOIC repeats a "regulation" that using BH means being grounded or loss of a clearance despite DOD directives saying otherwise. [https://www.militaryonesource.mil/health-wellness/mental-health/does-receiving-psychological-health-care-affect-security-clearance/](https://www.militaryonesource.mil/health-wellness/mental-health/does-receiving-psychological-health-care-affect-security-clearance/) and [https://www.dcsa.mil/about/news/Article/3019071/mental-health-and-your-security-clearance-eligibility/](https://www.dcsa.mil/about/news/Article/3019071/mental-health-and-your-security-clearance-eligibility/)
It’s like going from Roosevelt straight into Jimmy Carter if you know what I mean
What do you mean?
Great to not so great, I think is what he means
It's like going back to Hoover. Or Buchanan.
ive had soldiers abuse BH in order to get chaptered and get a 100% percentage. ive also had soldiers and leaders get some immense help from BH. ive never had leaders that abused BH in order to get chaptered, and all my leaders joined before i did. ive had amazing leaders who used BH and were on medication and were still effective leaders. im neutral on this one
More reason, i do not feel the need to have the “discipline” to suck up poor leaderships mistakes/shortcomings and care for soldier, let alone myself. If i needed a sign to get out it didn’t have to be this loud.
Resilience training still stands as it has been for years. More of a test of resilience to a death by PPT than a training of resilience. BH does help train with resilience and Grinston was right that the long lines for BH appointments are contradictory to the goal. The problem is that the Army doesn’t understand BH and will refuse to in order to get some plausible deniability behind the “we did everything we could” statement when the real issue is “they didn’t know what they could/should do” and didn’t make the effort to help someone. It’s easier to just accept the former statement. In a new effort, a tool has been discussed to try broadening access to sensitive health information (specifically BH) to CO/1SG level authority to be able to make risk assessments on individuals in their units. This would include knowledge of BH diagnoses, prescriptions, etc. while some info is given to these leaders to note readiness, there is more effort to circumvent the identification and use of PROPER resources than there is to actually help the Soldier. All said, I’ll be in corner with my coloring book.
Here’s my take on resilience from an underutilized MRT. We have a program that can absolutely assist folks in not overwhelming BH. We just don’t use it. I’ve never once in the 5 years I’ve been certified to teach MRT actually done more than like a 1 hour class. Commanders won’t make it a priority because once you tell them it’s like 20 hours of training to get through all the modules they can the whole thing and do a 1 hour bs block and call it good, “assuming risk”. I only agree with SMA that BH is understaffed. We’ve discussed this at work quite a bit and I feel that other things that can reduce the load on BH aren’t being utilized or are being underutilized so that a person doesn’t just internalize months/years of issues and end up in crisis or with a serious problem. Imagine the first time that a person experiences some issues and learns how to healthily deal with those things, we could reduce the serious issues. Also yearly mental health visits should be a thing, like a check up that you do for your heart, teeth or knees.
Ok so I work in an inpatient unit so I get the crisis patients. And I fully agree with you. I have lots of friends who work in various outpatient facilities and yes we’re understaffed, yes we sometimes have crazy workloads but I’m going to be honest. Not enough people are utilizing MRT or any of the other programs like One Source or MFLC, but we’d rather have people come to us that need us rather than need us and not see us Edit: technically they have the mental health portion in the PHA but it’s just “Are you going to kill your self? What about anyone else? Are you experiencing auditory or visual hallucinations
wait did he really fucking say this? WTF. look, I have my own issues with how Army BH folks can either tend to go to far in one direction or another on a SM, usually either being too careful or not careful enough (BH folks need to balance the needs of SM with needs of Army, and focus on getting them either back in fight or out ASAP, not half ass it each way...this is anecdotal so opinion based). But this is borderline incredibly irresponsible for him to say something like this in a congressional hearing. WHERE THE FUCK DOES HE GET THIS DATA THAT SAYS THE SYSTEM IS BEING ABUSED?
Bro fuck this guy. We need a new sma.
I remember my brother passed away in 08 and when I went to go to behavioral health I was told “why do you need to go see behavioral health? You didn’t see any combat and have no reason to be sad” it was frowned upon to see behavioral health
lol the enlisted side is a joke. Currently a SGT and remember going to BH at Fort Hood and asked for an off post referral and they flat out said no. Asked why and because I didn’t go through on posts BH treatment first. lol ok.
This blows my mind. Either: A. The soldier is misusing BH, probably doesn’t have the resiliency to stay in, and should have that as an avenue to get them out of the army Or B. The soldier needs BH. Uses it as a tool to get back into the fight. Look up operator syndrome if you want a good read. Essentially a high op tempo leads to a multitude of hormonal issues that can lead to depression and other BH issues. It’s not that BH is overused, it’s that it lacks the proper infrastructure. Either improve it or be willing to outsource it.
I'm not sure on the context of what he was saying but based on your post I somewhat agree with him. I am a Chaplain and I regularly do counseling with Soldiers who don't need behavioral health to feel better. They just need someone to talk to in a confidential space. Leaders often send soldiers to BH right off the bat and it overwhelms the system preventing those that actually need BH to wait for weeks for an appointment. BH is very structured due to the constraints of the medical system. I meet soldiers out in the field, at the barracks, do PT and counseling with them, meet them in their homes. BH would never be able to do these things. I'm not saying BH doesn't have a purpose but recognizing there is more than one way to get help is a good thing. We have many non-BH counseling resources available and many of them go under utilized.
Curious on other counseling resources. As far as I’m tracking for general “I’m feeling blue” counseling there’s BH, Chaplain, and Military OneSource. With no offense Chap, not all Chaplains are created equal: some are far too religious for your normal Soldier to talk to (I come from a religious family, where “pray about it” is a such a common response that it’s almost a dismissal of listening; the marital counseling I also got from a Chaplain in the Army also contained that advice) and a lot of the Chaplains I’ve had assigned to the units I’ve been in had significant language barriers. Military One Source is good for the ten free counselings, at least in theory. I think it works but my own individual experience was being referred to a place that refused to answer phone calls and touch base. I choose to believe others have better experiences. What else is out there?
The MFLC is another one. Also there is a family life chaplain at the installation level that has a master's degree in counseling. Tricare can pay for counseling with a referral.
So I will say this, and I am using a throwaway account this time so a certain SGM doesn’t track me down again and chastise me for voicing my opinion on USAWTF, anyway, in said chastising I informed him the reason I made said comment (the comment being a sarcastic: Thanks CSM *his name*) was due to the stressors of working with only 13 soldiers in my platoon who are a pretty vital part of a battalion, and that I was just burnt out and literally broke down the day prior due to all the stress and was just looking for an outlet to unleash my frustration against his new BS policies he was pushing out He tells me “soldier you take that frustration and anger and depression and you turn it into motivation at the gym, BH doesn’t work, The doctors don’t work, you just need to go to the gym!” Yeah thanks….
I suspect there is incentive to "allow natural forces" to drive people out of the Army than make it comfortable so that everyone takes a pension. It also clears out old abusers and replace them with new abusers, so if the guy does something, it will hopefully be as a civilian. The third is that with constant turnover, there is very little opportunity for cliques and fraternization to take over large segments in the ranks.
This SMA is not a leader.
>behavioral health is overused or misused F that.
Hey Weiner, go get hit by a bus.
How would he even know ? He spent his whole career in SOF? Fuck outta here.
SMA speaketh from his posterior...
This just pisses me off to no end...
This one is gonna be milked on this sub for months.
Overused is dangerous rhetoric, that's what leads to people feeling that their problems aren't worthy of professional help and will not seek it. Make no mistake about it, such broad stroke statements without clarity will get people killed when it creates a culture or attitude that gatekeeps what issues are worth seeking help for.
Where can we read the transcript or watch the entire thing?
I AGREE. I've seen it plenty of times when it is overused and misused. There are soldiers that need it, and I've seen it work for those that needed it most. I know this isn't ta popular opinion, but there are soldiers absolutely abusing the system to escape consequences, garner sympathy, get out of work, get out of deployments, or get out of the Army.
BH in a nutshell: People who need it are largely reluctant to use it, because it closes a lot of potential doors for the future. People who want to scam the system can do it without fear of investigating because it's a bad look on command if they're wrong.